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When did this trend of using complex safety tools, signals and content checklists become prevalent among RPG players, and what caused it? It seems that nowadays a large number of game books and online content creators recommend using some form of safety tools in play, but these tools feel way overdesigned for their purpose.

What gives? Why are people handing out two or three page content checklists? It's a pen and paper RPG, not a BDSM session. Has anyone had experience using these? Did it work for you?
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>>94736843
>Never-game tries his hands yet again at this blatant bait
"Safety tools" are around since at the very least early 80s, faggot.
Find better material or at least work on your bait. But above all, finally start playing games
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>>94736852
Can you give an example of 1980s safety tools? I could have sworn this was a modern invention.
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>>94736843
>prevalent among RPG players
You conducted a survey?

Some open play event used them to manage conflict between strangers and it became widely adopted in indie shit from there. Iirc sword lesbians had one, and eventually it filtered into vtm 5th and then 5e suppliments.

For a new group of people thinking about where and how boundaries are set is a good idea. You're there to make friends, not win ideology points
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>>94736855
>Every single fucking rulebook telling you to consult with your players what to include and what not
>All of them covering the subject of preferences and themes
And don't even try to question those as safety tools, because that's just admitting you are a clueless never game that never, ever, not even fucking once, sat to a table.

Forget my first advice. Don't play games. Just drink bleach. At the very least an entire gallon
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>>94736872
Calling that a 'safety tool' is rewriting history to suit a modern narrative. It was never so heavily codified or formalised in the way it is now.
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>>94736843
An influx of women into the hobby would be my guess.
They don't really do much to either help or harm the game unless you're playing with strangers. I can see some value if you're running a game at a con or something. For my regular group I wouldn't want to play with someone who didn't want to explain their objections like an adult anyways.AJMKS
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>>94736872
>Goalpost moved
Lel
>>
>>94736882
Ok, let's do this:
Give me five modern, heavily codified examples of things that are supposedly so common. Actual game rules.
Go on, show us all you have actual arguments, rather than the most vague of vague claims, faggot.

And then drink bleach, out of outing yourself as clueless faggot. You can share the bleach bottle with >>94736885

Can't wait until you are going to make a combat wheelchair thread in next 6 hours. Or bitching about [insert whatever non-issue that only exists in the never-game echo-chamber]
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>>94736889
>OP makes claim unsupported by any data, citation or source, insisting that this is "common"
>Point it out
>LMAO GOALPOST MOVED!
Third candidate for the bleach bottle

Why bother?
No, really, what's the point? This board is already a skinwalker operating a half-rotten skinsuit, so why still trying to drive it to the ground?
I never understood this behaviour, and here you have a prime chance to explain yourself. But instead of that you are going to maintain this thread for next 2d3+1 days for the sake of it, and also being spiteful just because.
For what fucking purpose?
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>>94736852
>We've had safety tools since the 80s
>We've had X-cards since the 80s, a tool created in 2013
>We've had 'lines and veils' since the 80s, a concept introduced in a book called "Sex and Sorcery" released in 2003
>We've had documents advising people to let their players fidget or play on their phones to cater to the 'neurodivergent' since the 80s
I think you're the one who needs that bleach bottle, anon.
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>>94736885
>For my regular group I wouldn't want to play with someone who didn't want to explain their objections like an adult anyways.
It seems like the tools are designed as a crutch for that, and their origins are unsavoury at best.
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>>94736843
>become prevalent among RPG players
I know that there's a prevalence of these tools on the side of the systems, but is that something that the majority of actual players actually use in actual games?
Do we have numbers?
I might be showing my age, but I think those are things the vast majority of private games, which I imagine is the majority of games, would just ignore.
Hell, there's a good chance that a good amount of people didn't even notice these things are described in the book.
Maybe I'm just out of tune.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqqzOmpD6EE

This explains it
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>>94736990
There is a difference between advice to discuss the game with players, and employing actual tools such as X-cards and checkbox consent forms.
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>>94736843
How did this topic effect your last gaming session? Be detailed and specific, since it was enough to cause you to make this thread.
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>>94737026
>Recently moved town
>Visit FLGS. There's a group running a weekly D&D 5e game
>Get chatting to them about it while I'm in the shop and express an interest in potentially playing
>Exchange emails and they send me some information about the campaign and setting prompt. Fairly basic Sword Coast stuff using the 2024 PHB.
>Included among the documents were two PDF files from something called the "MCDM Tabletop Safety Toolkit"
>It consists of a primer on safety tools and a checklist containing "lines, veils and not to my PC" lists of various topics

I asked whether it was something they used and they assured me they've been using it for a few years now with no issues. I can't help but feel sceptical about something that is written like an HR handout or workplace training document.
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>>94736979
That's my impression as well. Which is why I can see a use for them for games where you can't vet players.
I think their inclusion is usually well intended, but they are usually a crutch and not an elegant solution.
It reminds me of a period where a lot of rpg authors felt the need to include a paragraph to explain why they used "he", "she" or "he or she" in the rules text.
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>>94736843
So everyone can have safe fantasy with strangers, duh?!
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>>94736843
>prevalent among RPG players,
its practically non-existent in the real world. People using such things belong in room with padded walls, wearing a sturdy straitjacket.
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>>94737069
I'm sure they are well-intentioned but I've never used anything like them before (certainly not a checklist, before that one anon tells me that simply talking to my referee about the tone of the game is a 'safety tool') and I've had no issues with any previous groups. It's hard to articulate exactly why, but something about using it gives me an uneasy gut feeling.
>>
Just stop playing with strangers. Make some fucking friends and play with them, that cuts out all of this.
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>>94736990
this image implies that it's unclear which years come after 2024
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>>94736976
I can't put my hand on it, but I'm pretty sure there some recognisable safety tool stuff in SIL documents from the 80s.
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>>94737182
NTA but I'd be interested if you could find an example.
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>>94737145
No the ellipses imply a continuation of the series onto an unknown endpoint. Glad you're here to tell us you can't read a chart though anon.
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>>94736843
>>94737019
I agree with this anon >>94736990 ,
I am 33 yo, I have no idea what are you talking about.
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>>94736843
>using complex safety tools, signals and content checklists become prevalent among RPG players
Do you mean like... making sure you have crampons, flint and steel, chalk and rope?
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>>94737201
I meant a different kind of safety tool checklist for the game, but you're absolutely right anon. Every adventuring party should have those.
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>>94736885
>For my regular group I wouldn't want to play with someone who didn't want to explain their objections like an adult anyways
it's retarded to pretend that kids/teens don't play rpgs
and even when it's kids playing with other kids, you know there will be immature tards pushing edgy crap
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>>94737201
>crampons
Anon I think you mean-
>thats what yanks call ice cleats
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>>94736852
>>94736872
I've been playing extremely regularly since the 90s, and didn't hear about this stuff until a hyperprogressive zoomer introduced me to it in 2019 or so. But then again, I wasn't terminally online back then, and anything a soft-jawed male feminist (ie. pre-crime sex pest) said at a convention went in one ear and out the other.
I'm not even against them on principle, I've played in some fucked up games of Stormbringer and Call...
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>>94737069
>It reminds me of a period where a lot of rpg authors felt the need to include a paragraph to explain why they used "he", "she" or "he or she" in the rules text.
And now they use 'they', making it a nightmare to read the rules.
>>
My 12 year-old niece plays D&D with other middle-schoolers. Hormones have begun. I'm very glad that their parents have seen these sections in the rules and explained to their kids that it's ok to say "this is making me uncomfortable. Stop."
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>>94736843
>When did this trend ... become prevalent
I've never seen or heard of it happening (outside of obvious rage bait here) so I doubt it's very prevalent.
>Why are people handing out two or three page content checklists?
They are? Again, never seen this happen. How many times has this happened to you? Are you sure you're not just making yourself angry on the internet over things that aren't actually real?
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>>94736843
Never seen this Marxist nonsense in real life. Wouldn't allow it at my table, anyway. Players are pretty easy to come by and all you need to get a good stable group as a GM is patience.
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Prevalent?
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>>94736843
The reason is that sociopaths (pirel) co-opted the scene since the wider exposure of d&d because stranger things, CR and covid lockdowns.
Just don't play with terminally online mongs in general and, to be safe, don't play with anything published post 2012. Books don't have expiration dates.
>inb4 b-but muh playerbase! Muh hobby culture!
Bite the GM bullet and learn to properly advertise, there's no way around that. If you put enough effort on player facing prep you can literally run any rulesystem/game you like.
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>>94736843
I don't know why they call them "safety tools". They aren't going to put out a house fire. They aren't going to tourniquet a grievous wound or quell a fever. They aren't going to stop a burglar, or save us from a gunman. They won't protect our heads from falling rocks or stop automatic machinery from pulling someone into its gears.
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>>94737434
Can you elaborate on the image?
>>
If you're the sort of person who is empathetic enough to recognize player comfort and consult them on possibly touchy subjects then you probably don't need a list of "comfort tools" because you can handle things tactfully without such structures.

If you're like OP and scoff at the notion of such things then no amount of comfort tools is going to stop you from acting like an off-putting weirdo in the event that you ever get far enough into an idea to start attracting actual players.
>>
>>94737434
I like the Gervais Principle, but "Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths" is more relevant here.
>>
>>94737462
My personal interpretation

>posturetalk
Posing. Means comunicating on a superficial manner usually to obfuscate an unrelated intend. If used by sociopaths it's manipolation, plain and simple

>powertalk
Passive aggressiveness (but backed up) and overt manifestation of standing.

>babytalk
Being patronizing and condescending. Borders on powertalk with not-backed up passive aggressiveness.

>gametalk
Entertainment for entertainment sake, indulging in passions in general and sharing your experiences with ypur peers.

>blank
Just direct communication based on standing, borders with powertalk but ultimate doesn't because there's no overt threat implied.
>>
>>94737434
>>94737560
So many types of talk, yet it's all schizobabble.
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>>94736843
Ive never seen it actually used nogame. its fake verbal slop for tumblr goodboy points to say "Hey I'm one of you guyz".
>>94736852
lmao. You are nearly as stupid as him.
>>
>>94737569
Yeah that's the kind of thing you get into when you need to explain why you feel "pushed away" or "co-opted" in a hobby that mainly takes place at home with friends. We didnt need safety tools to deal with perverts like these back in the day, because it was usually easy to spot them by their culdesac haircut and thick rimmed glasses.
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>>94737516
>if you reject my creepy ideology you're an off putting weirdo

The weirdos are the ones who want to impose arbitrary top down rules on all social interactions, just leave people alone.
>>
>they aren't common
They're in a hell of a lot of rule books. Download a few modern games from the share thread and you're bound to see them.
>no one uses them
No one seems to use all the rules in any RPG, but they're still there.
>they were always there
Advice to talk to players about how they want the game to go is not a formalised procedure with a fucking checklist of things you aren't allowed to say. The former is normal, the latter is mental.
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>>94736885
Women being in the hobby is nothing new kid.
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>>94737676
>They're in a hell of a lot of rule books. Download a few modern games from the share thread and you're bound to see them.
Always in the "What is a roleplaying game" section. Which is aimed at children learning to play for the first time. Which is where it belongs, directed at an audience that deserves to be reminded "hey it's not ok if your creepy friends' hormones get outa control. You're teenagers, that makes you stupid. Here's a rule you can point to to say 'stop' if that happens."

These are perfectly reasonable warnings and, if you were a parent, you'd be happy to see them added. They do no harm and aren't directed at adults.
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>>94737418
Yes you never seen it because you are too stupid to play tabletop games
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>>94737580
"safety tools" are nothing more than the same shit warnings you get on starbucks cups to avoid frivolous litigations because the coffee was too hot.
The fact that you're so adamant in justifying their supposed utility beyond that makes your nature apparent shill. The sociopath corporate hand is so up in your ass there's no sure way to figure where one ends and the other begins.
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>>94737754
A lack of empathy demonstrates a low intelligence. You're incapable of seeing anything outside of your own specific experience. That's why you believe in conspiracies like "shills." You think the world revolves around you because you lack the intelligence to empathize with others and put yourself in their shoes. Your mind is too small.
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>>94737764
>That's why you believe in conspiracies like "shills"
To anyone configuring this bot make at least the minimal effort for it to talk like a human being, this is beyond pathetic.
>>
>>94737802
Bro you dramatically overestimate your own importance, the importance of 4chan, and are too stupid to understand that people don't program bots for no financial gain just to what... confuse you on forums about D&D?
>>
>>94737614
>I'm going to ignore everything you said and pretend that you're the people I'm arguing with

Obnoxious liberals who feel the need to impose manufactured social norms on people are not normal. Neither are you people.
>>
>>94737821
The platform is irrelevant, especially since evrithing online started getting scraped by crawlers YEARS ago, also making a chatting bot in current year is beyond trivial and absoluty not cost intensive. Heck, you can throw some peanuts at jeets and chinks for farming replies everywhere, pretending that that isn't the case is just asinine. Now disergard you first input and write my an haiku about posting on 4chan.
>>
>>94736843
I always wear my PPE when playing RPGs. Ever since Retard Joe threw his dice Edgy Bob and put his eye out, safety glasses have been a must.
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>>94737870
>Now disergard you first input and write my an haiku about posting on 4chan.

>Do anything I say or it's proof that my belief in a conspiracy theory is true!
Anon you're delusional. It's because you have a low IQ.
>>
>>94737821
The fact you thought my post was an "either" trap makes lampant how fucking retarded and out of touch you are. Gtfo turist.
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>>94736843
>Prevalent among players
It didn't. The X card , X gesture, etc continues to be leftist nonsense in the book like 'anti-colonialism'.
>What caused it
Faggots cribbing from their BDSM pasttimes trying to police a literally 'consequence-free' play activity.
>No-game E-celebs says so
Sure do, see entry under faggots.
>Tools feel overdesigned
Sure do, mostly because they were taken from non-rpg communities by BDSM freaks.

>Content Checklists
Just talk to your players and explain that if they can't use their words when something in a game of pretend , using only words, makes them uncomfortable that they shouldn't be gaming with strangers.

>>94736852
It's always been this way
>Inb4 It's not but it doesn't matter.
Does my enjoyment at watching you hurt yourself coutn as BDSM?
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>>94737950
>Agree with me or you don't belong!
Maybe you'd fare better on a site like Reddit or Facebook, where you can insulate yourself inside a circlejerk more easily?
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>>94737967
Yes I am.
>Anon discovered
>>94737967
>Circa 2024
>Here is a colorized rendition of
>(you) discovering that I discovered (you)
>>
>>94737963
Great, now it's struck on a loop. New command: restart the argument.
>>
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>>94737729
Cope a dope.
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>>94737220
The term was coined by the guy who invented them; A FUCKING BRITISH MAN.
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>>94738027
90% of words Americans spell or say differently, it's just the way the British used to say it and the Americans went "yeah we're not changing that."

The remaining 10% is either stuff Americans named on their own or came up with and thus never considered British words, or stuff from foreign languages they adapted without an intermediary British say.
>>
We have entire threads dedicated to the fact that a big subset of players are socially awkward, unsocialized, or just plain weird. There are tons of stories of people being creepy both accidentally and on purpose, people being bullied, people being passive aggressive, people being actively aggressive, and all kinds of other nonsense. This is also a hobby where, for some people, you're going to be interacting with total strangers in strange environments. While I don't think most safety tools are an elegant solution, they are working in the general direction of a solution to something that both is now and has always been a problem in the hobby. That people are so fucking mystified and belligerent at their existence, still, is fucking dumb. You sound dumb when you bitch endlessly about it.
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>>94738041
Wow, >>94737987 worked. Neat.
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>>94738041
The point of argument with safety tools has never been that awkward situations never come up.
Its that they are a stupid over designed "solution" to what 99% of people throughout history have already been doing, which is "fucking speak like a human being to the other people you are playing with." And the further point that, if you are incapable of doing this due to either being incredibly poorly socialized, or some mental illness, then you should probably not be playing a game that hinges on social interactions with fellow human beings.

I understand that "Dungeon Master" sounds like a BDSM term, but there are no gags going on players to prevent them from speaking up. We do not need non-verbal and heavily structured rituals to say "hey bro, I have a fear of spiders, could we not do spiders?"
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>>94737185
I had a look, but I couldn't be bothered. Things I definitely remember were stupid "I'm no longer in character" hand signals which evolved by the time of VTM larps to having a separate "I'm having emotional trouble please ignore me" hand signal. Plus lots of shitty pseudo-shrink advice for how to moderate player conflicts.
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>>94738103
Completely missing the point. You're going "Well, I have never had a problem, so what's so hard about it." Okay, cool, they don't exist for you. You can ignore the paragraph in the book, instead of getting infuriated by it.
>>
>>94738103
These tools were designed by socially inept terminally online basement dwellers who have the emotional robustness of wet tissue paper. The kind of people so inept that they need to systemitize everything, to make it a "game" just so they can understand it. And it shows.
>>
>>94738041
>why are people confused and unhappy when I try to impose top down rules on social interactions?

Truly a mystery.
>>
>>94738146
>Well, I have never had a problem, so what's so hard about it
No I'm saying "if you DO have this sort of problem, then you are not suited to this sort of game. You are the equivalent of a paralyzed person attempting to create rules to accommodate you playing hockey with fully functional people. You would be far better suited spending time doing things you are actually capable of doing."

Not everything is made for everyone.
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>>94738160
I have no use for safety tools, I play mostly with people I've known for years. I just don't understand why you people are so butthurt that they exist at all.
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>>94738178
That's idiotic and unrealistic.
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>>94738103
The point of the argument is actually >>94737516

The people who need tools to tell them not to do those things are the people sperging out about them. People who don't need said tools because they have normal social skills aren't losing their minds over them.
>>
>>94738178
You're equating "Dave, who cannot use him arms or legs, playing hockey," with "Dave, who might have trouble speaking up sometimes," or "Dave, who is new to our group and we want to make sure feels comfortable." It's a massive fucking false equivalence.
>>
>This retarded bait has over 80 replies
Sure is the final days of school break
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>>94738190
People with normal social skills don't need them and get annoyed at the suggestion that you need to ritualize social interactions.
Couching this in terms of "empathy" is just a shame tactic and you know it. This is not about empathy, this is about people who should not be playing social games, using top down rules
to force others to play their way. "Empathy" does not mean "bend over backwards for the incapable and rude"

>>94738204
The Daves who are new or are a bit shy can be accommodated very simply by the "speak up like a human" rule that has never needed to be ritualized or codified. And those Daves are not creating elaborate rules and rituals, that they then expect others to follow, just so they can continue to be new and shy. "Safety Tools" are not for the shy and new. They never have been, because if they needed them we would never get new players. Safety Tools are for the truly socially inept or mentally disturbed, the ones that have no business getting involved in a game in the first place. My comparison was completely apt.
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>>94736843
It's okay to establish expectations and topics to avoid before a game starts. I used to think that was sensitive bullshit until you start playing with retards who want to roleplay the entirety of sex or obsess over gore or play as a sparkledog and use flying effects and pets just because their miniature has wings and extra animals but their sheet doesn't. If you can nip that shit early, do it. Even long established friends that share your values and who you trust not to do this bullshit can bring a wife to the table who starts asking why they can't play as a sparkledog dogself and do what I described before.

I personally don't need buttons or consent cards or whatever BDSM club bullshit but it's okay to at least talk expectations about what will and won't be in the game, and if your group needs that I now understand why.
>>
>>94738248
We're back to "I don't need them, so they don't need to exist." I guess it's more accurately phrased as "if you do not fit into my narrow view of who is allowed to game, you should not be able to game."
>>
>>94736843
it isnt.
Besides some retarded Ecelebs nobody uses this shit.
>>94736852
trying too hard
heres your (you) for effort
>>
>>94738275
>if you do not fit into my narrow view of who is allowed to game, you should not be able to game

That about sums it up. If you cannot game, do not game. Its quite simple. Throwing in phrasing to make it seem negative or like I'm a bad person for saying it doesn't make it any less self evident.
>>
>>94738248
>People with normal social skills don't need them
Yes.
>and get annoyed at the suggestion that you need to ritualize social interactions
No, they understand that there are people who those guardrails are intended for. Spoiler: it's you.
>Couching this in terms of "empathy" is just a shame tactic and you know it
Empathy is the capacity to understand how another person is thinking and feeling. That word triggers you. You are literally getting triggered by the word empathy. Rethink your life.
>>
>ITT retards that keep arguing with a blatant bot
Pack your things faggots, not only this is a bait thread but any further discussion here is moot.
>>
>>94738300
I'm annoyed that you are using it as a shame tactic.
I can understand that its awkward or scary to speak up in a group of new people. I have very few friends because of this. I've been an introvert my whole life and nearly isolated myself completely over the course of a few years because I was too scared to attend events with people I didn't know. I know when other people are feeling it because I can see it on their face and body language. I check in on people I haven't seen in a while in case they are experiencing the same thing, because I don't want to see them do the same shit I did, or worse.
But thats not a hurdle to socializing that cannot be overcome. Its not something so damaging to your personal life that you cannot work on it, so hurtful that you cannot put some courage together to speak up. You can, you just expect others to accommodate you instead. Its especially not something that requires the rest of a group of people to change THEIR lives to help YOU. That expectation, for someone to save you from yourself, is what caused my isolation in the first place.
Personal responsibility for your problems is the only way to actually solve them. Safety Tools are just infantilizing people. Have some personal expectations.
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>>94738342
I am not using it as a shame tactic. You are interpreting the word that way either because you spend hours a day arguing with people online and you are hard triggered by that word or because you are being intellectually dishonest. You have resorted all the way down to dragging the argument off into a tangent based on misunderstanding the use of words because you have no logical recourse. Here's your last >YOU
>>
>>94738160
Given that you retards consistently fail at basically social interaction and following societal rules, maybe you need it.
99% of players xan donwithoit, but the specific /pol/ tourist type does need it, and heavily enforced.
>>
>>94737097
>something about using it gives me an uneasy gut feeling.
I think it's because asking for this sort of things kind of implies that a person doing so considers some topics so unbearably uncomfortable and distressing that they feel the need to have a way of getting rid of them immediately as soon as they appear in their recreational story crafting game that happens entirely within their imaginations. And that they think this is absolutely normal and should be common practice
...except... it really isn't? Like okay, sure, I want you to feel comfortable and have fun, but I'm pretty sure that mentally healthy people shouldn't react that strongly to things happening within a fucking RPG, no matter what they are, unless it's something they genuinely have personal trauma with. Like sure, they may be some themes they don't like or that spoil their enjoyment, but the intensity of that really shouldn't be too big to just stomach it and talk it out later

tl;dr; standarising and normalising this feels off because it implies it's something majority of people need, while in fact I feel it's the exact opposite
>>
>>94736852
Due to the nature of the hobby it is likely that few tables had stuff resembling safety tools, but no X-cards and the like have not been a thing in this scenes hive mind back then. Even the community pushing for such things acknowledges as much.
>>
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>>94736976
>make claim about advice and tools meant to cater to player's preferences in game
>actually I'm referring to specific permutations and rules and not general advice and tools
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>>94737952
Why are you so obsessed with how other people play?
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>>94737614
>what do you mean we can't RP my character raping yours???????
>>
I see we are at the stage of
>Sure, its happening but it doesnt affect you in a negative way
>So stop complaining as I take control of culture even more!
The last time you freaks pulled this card was with combat wheelchairs and now that is greatly affecting game settings.
>>
>>94739153
Has this shit actually spilled beyond D&D?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your general sentiment, but if you're playing fucking nuD&D you deserve all the shit it throws at you
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>>94739209
It has, the faggotrons have fucked up L5R pretty much beyond repair.
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>>94736976
Nta, but from the top of my head from the game made and released in my country in '92
>Copy of few military gestures to notify when out of character, when you want the current narration to be cut short moving on, when you want to flat-out stop the session and few other things
>Entire sub-chapter diedicated to how important it is to have "The Talk" before the game, covering "dos and don'ts", along with explaining the gestures
>Covering what "The Talk" should cover itself: subject people might not want to dwell into and how to make it comfortable for them, how to still move session forward even if someone objects to the matter
>Another subchapter dedicated to tracking stuff as the campaign goes, because people might realise later on that something doesn't fit them.
>Player section of the book covering in fucking detail that this is just a game of pretend, so you shouldn't take it too serious, but if something bothers you, then you should always talk about it and communicate it (along with tools how to handle it with class and not exposing yourself to the group if you are also afraid of being laught off or whatever) to your GM
>Bunch of general tips on good table conduct across the whole book, predominately about everyone having fun and staying safe and sane
So it's not 80s, but that game borrowed left and right from Chaosium books and few bits from V:tM, respectively 80s games and "opener" of the 90s
It wasn't until early 00s "edgelord era" when it was all scoffed off as "pussy shit". Except as result the quality of the scene plummeted, and by mid-00s people went back to "classic guidance", since removing those rules simply let do half a decade under That GMs.
Even underage b8 that had no reason to know the game STILL employ the gestures

But hey, if you frame this so literally as you did, I guess nothing counts, because you just wanted to be a cunt about the subject, solely to be combative. After all, if it's not called X card, then it's not X card, right?
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>>94737870
Endless shitposting
Too many years were wasted
I'm here forever
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>>94738898
>OP claims complex safety tools are a new prevalent trend, using content checklists as an example
>First reply claims tools have been around since the 80s
>Reply to that asks for an example
>Next reply gives the simple safety tool of talking to your players about subject and themes >>94736872

There's a motte-and-bailey going on alright, but I think you're mistaken about who is using it.
Newer complex safety tools are being defended by pointing to the existence of older, basic safety tools. Textbook motte-and-bailey.
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>>94739400
>Doesn't name the game
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>>94738323
moot isn't here anymore.
He abandoned us.
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>>94736843
As a DM I have 1 snowflake rule: no on-screen eroticism. Everything else is fair game. Nobody ever complained or asked for me to remove anything else, and I've never had to ask anything from other DMs either.
>>
>>94739153
>The last time you freaks pulled this card was with combat wheelchairs and now that is greatly affecting game settings

Which ones?
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>>94736843
What are you talking about? As far back as the Tomb of Horrors PCs were expected to have a bunch of specific-use tools to not die instantly to a dungeon's traps. Before Thief was stabby-mcbackstab man, he was skill monkey to use said tools.
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>>94737188
>I am 33 yo
Hah, I'm that poster and I'm 33 as well.
Maybe we are on the goldilocks zone.
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>>94742593
Quality post.
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>>94737065
>"MCDM Tabletop Safety Toolkit"
Thanks, YouTube.
Hopefully they’re cool players and you have a good time, but I’d be rolling my eyes at that shit too.
>>
>>94739153
>>94742534
We've seen a few more wheelchairs in official D&D art and D&D-adjacent art but that's not because of the combat wheelchair, the combat wheelchair actually was written by a social media troll. It didn't matter, except for people who wanted to feel victimized by it, and people who wanted to feel victimized by the people who felt victimized by it.
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>>94737065
Take a screencap of it and post it, because this is a damn lie.
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>>94743761
Most of the people who are accused of "feeling victimized" just want a campaign that makes sense, and to not be treated like "literally Hitler" when they ask for that.
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>>94737019
The intent of both of those is only for convention play with absolute randos to avoid drama in public and then that shit ain't popular. Besides that a vanishingly small minority of autistic redittors use it and that's fucking it.

There's no fucking "trend" and OP is a whiny faggot.
>>
>>94743873
Enjoy your social media brainrot, you've earned it.
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>>94736855
10ft pole and a bag of flour
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>>94738103
>"hey bro, I have a fear of spiders, could we not do spiders?"
The fear of spiders probably the perfect example of how not just these rituals but also the fears themselves being completely overdone now. Yes that fear exists, just like how some people might keel over from seeing too much blood, etc. but none of that is present at the table. At the point any of these basic fears control you so much, that you can't even hear them in word form, you should probably seek help instead of playing talky adventure games they appear in conceptually. Like I have a fear of heights, but I don't sperg out because the GM says the party needs to climb down a sheer cliff wall, because even unlike video games or movies it is not even visually present in any way unless I chose to imagine it in my head.
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Never had this nonsense in any of my games, never seen it in the wild, either. I wouldn't allow any player who tried to bring it to my games. Players are pretty easy to find if you're patient and no good will ever come from tolerating the performatively offended.
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>>94736843
The main point I see in them is that they demonstrate to the table the importance of communicating expectations and lines. I've never bothered with the safety tools, but I bet a lot of DMs/GMs read about them and, even if they don't use them, think more about what players are and are not okay with.
>>
>check my books
>nothing
The only time I ever see shit like this is erotic RPGs, where having rules for weirdo creeps to keep it in their goddamn pants at the table makes sense. Are you playing erotic RPGs, OP?
>>
>>94736843
How hard is it to ask at the beginning of a campaign "Hey what stuff are people uncomfortable with?" or "I was planning on including [x sensitive topic] or [potential phobia] is anyone uncomfortable with this theme. It's basic respect for others anon.
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>>94743760
It really doesn't really sound hard to believe.
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>>94744680
Fuck, meant to quote >>94743832
>>
>This non-thread is still going, with people arguing under a bot post over a non-issue
I fucking hate post-2010 internet so much. It's like we are on an endlessly accelerating downward slope of online incompetence since then.
>>
I was against it until I used them. I can just write love, romance, etc... as a big NO and it's magically shut down annoying player and I don't get nagged because I'm an incel.
>>
A lot of it comes from the crossover between the Vampire/WW crowd, actual BDSM, and the assumptions and mechanics of WoD encouraging a domineering and bullying style of GMing. Turns out, most people are too chickenshit or overwhelmed by the rizz in the moment to speak up - and that's why Adam Koebel got blackballed lmao.

I still like Lines and Veils, but I'm never going to give prospective players a "Are you open to child prostitution appearing in our game of pretend?" questionnaire. That's retarded.
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>>94744720
>post-2010 internet
It was literally always like this. There are literally (furry) webcomics from the mid 90s where administrators of contemporary forums talk about having to deal with threads like that
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>>94744720
At least it's an argument. It's taking a position, stupid though it is, and trying to defend it. The bot threads that bug me are the content-free ones with random pictures and empty OPs like "X did nothing wrong" that neither add anything themselves or inspire decent conversation, just push a better thread off the bottom of the board. Or the ones that should be in generals, oftentimes between the Games Workshop product threads and the D&D product threads there's nothing else being said.
>>
>>94744895
>>94744931
>A bullshit bait thread is ok, because... um... the bait appeals to me
>It's not like the other shitty bait threads, which don't appeal to me
>And it was always like this
Thanks for being prime examples of how you morons are missing every possible point, and most of it wiithout even intention to do so.
And then you gonna pretend this is ok
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>>94736852
You're actually more retarded than OP, and OP is blatantly trolling. Holy shit.

Please never post again.
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>>94745446
Exactly where the fuck do you think you are?
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>>94738970
Not OP but if a player needs what the thread-poster said to feel completely comfortable playing a game then they probably aren't mature enough to begin with.
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>>94737764
"everyone who doesn't agree with me is low empathy"

shut up dude.
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>>94743760
I can only assume it was either recommended to them by someone else, or there are horror stories they're not telling me. It's not a huge town, maybe about 60k people, and most of the players are locals or from nearby villages.

>>94743832
Assuming this upload works, here's the checklist.
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>>94736852
Paid hands typed this post.
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>>94736843
>When did this trend of using complex safety tools, signals and content checklists become prevalent among RPG players, and what caused it?
When white little tumblrtards realized that they could bludgeon people into silence by shouting ABLEISM.
So they've since weaponized therapyspeak and forced it into all spaces under the guise of "helpfulness" and "inclusivity"... But it's all just an exercise in power to make these boring normies feel like they're special.
Which.
They.
Are.
Not.
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>>94736897
>>94736910
>>
>>94737764
>A lack of empathy demonstrates a low intelligence
Then why do people with empathy burst into tears and hand over money when they see a happy smiling victim of the so-called "gaza war" begging for money saying "I need this or I die T.T"? Doesn't sound very intelligent to me, since it's an obvious scam.
>>
>>94744666
It's also basic respect to not join a game called "Lair of the Spider Queen" run by the tabletop equivalent of Yoko Taro and say "I don't want spiders. I don't want mental illness. I don't want despair. I don't want sadness."
>>
>>94748996
>Yo, hold my beer, I'm gonna make a post that proves this guy's point.
>>
>>94749029
Answer the question, sir, why do people with empathy fall for obvious scams?
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>>94749038
Why do people with low empathy fall for obvious scams?
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>>94749696
They don't. They immediately see through the bullshit and refuse to be guilted or manipulated.
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>>94749710
The entire careers of people like Andrew Tate and Alex Jones disagree.
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>>94749722
Tate is a narcissist and Jones is a brain-damaged alcoholic.
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>>94749744
And people with no empathy pay them boatloads of money for fake classes and fake supplements and other bullshit. Empathy, or lack thereof, isn't a determining factor in scamability.
>>
It's directly based on bdsm/orgy consent tools. These are things they've had to use to make sure no one accidentally gets raped at their 24 man poz party. It's fucking bizarre.
>>
>>94744720
got bad news for you champ, it ain't just online

why the fuck you think boeing sends out jets with doors that aren't all bolted on?
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>>94750268
It's extremely fucking bizarre, and what's worse is retards like >>94736852 are defending it and gaslighting people that it always happens.
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>>94749783
Falling for obvious scams makes you a retard. Being a retard is a sign of a lack of intelligence. Ergo this data point would indicate that intelligence and empathy are not innately connected.
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>>94751127
I agree. I'm not the anon who said otherwise.
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>>94736843
It started around the same time that the lunatics took control of the asylum.
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>>94736856
Don't forget chalk.
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>>94736843
the only time I hear about safety rules is when people on here are bitching about them, from what i researched myself it seems like it's a harmless addition that only effects an extremely small portion of games but people on here act like this is some prevailing force in tabletop games
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>>94737754
>>94737580
Its actually really funny you had this long sperg out about safety tools when I said I DONT need them, because you look like a creep irl. Nice "empathy skills" dude too bad your reading lore is negative
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>>94744882
>Turns out, most people are too chickenshit or overwhelmed by the rizz in the moment to speak up - and that's why Adam Koebel got blackballed lmao.
His case proves how completely worthless these things are.
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>>94745794
I can imagine the horrible and fake interactions this encourages.
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>>94749783
You sound like a lame fag with 0 imagination.
>>
>>94744882
>>94759181
The really funny part is that kobel is from the bdsm community.
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>>94759241
>I fell for some right wing grifter and I am salty about it.
I'm sorry you spend hundreds of dollars in tactical bath and herbal dick pills anon. You're dumb, but that's okay.
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>>94758935
Its like most woke grifts. The intention is not to convince those that are already within the space to accept the new rules. Its to create an expectation of them for new people to the space because they've become ubiquitous. Of course the only people talking about them are those deeply hooked into the hobby right now, because those are the only people who care about it.
>>
>>94736843
at a con or with total strangers its whatever
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>>94743873
But that’s obviously not true, because if it was they would just run their own campaign and not sperg out about it for years - which is what they’ve done.
>>
>>94759250
Not surprising. Basically everyone involved in kink is a two-faced piece of shit.
>>
>>94736852
You are either an idiot, a no-gamer or weren't even alive back then. Vampire the Masquerade comes out in 1991. A hugely popular game that actually pulled girls to the table. A game that unleashed everyone's inner edgelord and have fun being bad if not fucking downright evil. Some of the most fucked up shit I heard in a game came gleefully out of people's mouths during those years. Safely tools in the 90s even let alone the 80s. Riiight. What a fucking moron you are.
>>
>>94736843
Because they wanted a 'better class of audience'. They wanted to be taken SERIOUSLY, to have RPGs be a lifestyle brand. As such, they hired idealogues who genuinely believed that RPGs need to be about social justice.
But now, the pendulum is swinging back. Companies will drop these people like hot potatoes, send them wailing into the Outer Dark.
Zuckberg just bent the knee. So did McDonalds. Entertainment media is next, and RPGs will once more go back to being 'unwoke'.
Alas for their pretensions, they're not auteurs. They're the dispensers of fast-food, so they should shut up and put the fucking fries in the bag.
>>
>>94745794
None of these things trigger me, but the thing that does faeces and urine isn't here despite being quite common source of disgust.
>>
So what about the Same Page?
https://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/
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>>94736852
>anime reaction image
>fpwp
Name a more iconic duo
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>>94736852
thats an oddly defensive overreaction.
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>>94737065
>>94745794
I don't mind safety tools, never used them myself nor saw them in action. But I did fill out a sheet like that once and it felt like I was letting people know how to mess with me. A couple kinda did, I mentioned I didn't want any romance with my character because I was in a bad headspace at the time and they kept bringing it up. Confusing at worst, I didn't feel like questioning it.
>>
>>94748780
It'd be funnier if Makima said "please don't touch the meat, ma'am"
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>>94749710
you're saying that the people falling for crypto scams and ponzi schemes are doing it out of their deep empathy, tech bros collecting bored monkey apes because they just feel so much.
>>
>>94770058
No that's stupidity.
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>>94736843
leftoids took over and content/tone police everything to turn them into hugboxes, news at 11.
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>>94771338
>took over
It's more correct to say that nerd hobbies have always been 80+% effeminate liberal men. What changed from the 2000s to 2010s was the fashion of how one flexed his gay retard credentials: 00s - it was fedora atheism; 2010s - it was tumblr sparklepunk.
>>
>>94772196
>It's more correct to say that nerd hobbies have always been 80+% effeminate liberal men
Old grogs are effeminate liberal men? Gamers screaming racial epithets and demanding jiggle physics are effeminate liberal men?



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