I'm thinking about building an army, and am at the stage in life where I don't need to ask my parents to spend money. Is 40k actually all that expensive compared to other hobbies? If so, what hobbies do you have to compare it to? I did receive some advice on another discussion site but I suspect for many of the people posting, moderating an internet "community" is the closest they have to either a job or a hobby, so I don't really trust their judgement on what constitutes "expensive" for a hobby.
>>94748554No. This is an expensive hobby (I do both)
>>94748554Its expensive compared to a sport, cooking, working out, art, music, drinking and ttrpgsIts about on par with trading card games, collecting shoes and cheap international travelIts cheap compared to souping up cars, expensive travel, maybe skiingIf you want to paint and model minis then strongly consider investing in a 3d printer. The newest bambu and anycubics are advanced enough that you dont need to spend hours learning them to get results
It’s certainly overpriced.
Warhammer etc is the cheap stuff I buy in between the large hobby expenses of travel and camera lenses.
All Games Workshop models are outrageously overpriced. The current 40k rules are also a pile of flaming shit. If you really have to play it, buy your models second-hand or from recasters and find a group playing an older edition or an alternative ruleset.
>>94748554Buy one (1) faction.Start with an HQ and a basic troop.Don't buy more until you finish painting the last box you bought.Don't worry about being a completionist.
>>94748640>Its expensive compared to a sport, cooking, working out, art, music, drinkingdepending on how you spend your money those can be more or less expensive than warhammer, i.e. going to a gym vs buying your own gym equipment, buying a cheap aluminum road bike vs buying an expensive carbon fiber one, etc.
>>9474855440k is moderately expensive as far as just "picking up a hobby' goes. Certainly there are hobbies that are tremendously more expensive. The issue with 40K is that it is *incredibly* expensive within the niche of tabletop games, and within the larger niche of playing any sort of games in general (I'm an ice hockey goalie, and my pads are less expensive than my 40k habit). It would not be unreasonable to call it outrageously, ludicrously, or even unfairly expensive. There is no valid economic or logistical reason why miniatures from Games Workshop are as expensive as they are, save that "GW thinks the market will bear it". Therefore, *in comparison to other tabletop games*, yes, 40K is expensive.But in an absolute sense, it is certainly less expensive than collecting masterpieces of artwork, doing demolition derbies with decommissioned naval vessels, achieving space flight, and purchasing democratic governments. Those hobbies are all clearly more expensive than 40k, and so 40K looks downright inexpensive by comparison.
>>94748554It's cheaper than some, more expensive than others. Really depends at which dollar point you define expensive. If you you enjoy the building, painting, and playing, it's very cost effective for time spent to enjoyment. You can try the skirmish game, kill team, for less than $100USD to buy a team and see if you like it. If you like it, go at your own pace. I really don't recommend going straight for 2000 points of any army. It's just too much stuff and more money than you should spend to figure out if you like something. >>94748584Great photo.
>>9474855440k is a more expensive hobby than tabletop gaming in general
Imagine having parents who would actually help you with anything, especially something like Warhammer 40,000.
>>94748554If your goal in playing is solely to win, the cost increases significantly, as chasing the meta is done in a 3 to 6 month cycle, and usually requires buying an entirely different army in order to compete at the highest competitive level like some kind of hellacious fag. If your goal is to play the game with some friends (or at least people that don't quote their fucking tournament ranking numbers to you unprompted) its an investment of between $400-750, depending on the army etc. If you're not a complete shithead and show a modicum of restraint, only buy and build & paint one thing at a time, its like ~$60 a month.
>>94748640>maybe skiingNo, skiing is absolutely a top earner job.>>94749106Gym equipment isn't that expensive, and I assume if you are going out and grabbing pic related you'd also have 5+ warhammer armies, conversions, etc...
>>94748554>Is 40k actually all that expensive compared to other hobbies?Compared to my historical gaming? Holy shit it's horrifically expensive. I paid $250 for enough 15mm naps to fill out 2 corps each of French, Russians, and Austrians, another $150 to have enough 15mm minis to fight any Vietnam ground engagement you care to name at battalion scale or smaller, and $200 total for about 300 each of 6mm Romans, Scythians, Carthagineans, and Gauls. All of that COMBINED is less expensive than any single 40K army I own (SoB, Eldar, IG, Orks). And I can use about 80% of the terrain I have for historicals at any scale from 6-15mm; only buildings really need to be purchased fresh for each scale. 40k terrain is ruiniously pricy for what you get.With that said, my other hobby is breeding horses (no, not like that). I usually make enough money to cover its own costs, but I am spending very high 5 figures on breeding and raising horses annually, and sometimes over 6 figures. So comparatively speaking, 40k isn't the most expensive hobby I have.
>>94749127>GW thinks the market will bear itGW *knows* the market will bear it.
>>94749106Sure you COULD drop 20k on a bike, and you could buy four warlord titans with shipping. But you could buy a secondhand carbon fiber bike for like 1k and come out cheaper than some 2000pt armies. As for working out, 20 a week on a gym is still only about one box of infantry a month, and there are much cheaper gyms and much cheaper options than gyms
40k is not actually that expensive in the grand scheme of things. It is very fucking expensive for being plastic models with a crap game attached to them, and much of it is designed to maximize profit at the expense of the game. Warhammer is more expensive than it warrants and the expense is clearly ill-willed.
>>94748554Don't buy anything. 3d print or buy printed models to start, then if you actually enjoy/play it often, consider actually buying models.
It's pretty expensive relative to other /tg/ shit, but on the whole not really. The average price of a pint is around £5, so a night out getting moderately drunk costs about half a squad box, which are around £30-£40. And you don't actually need many of those to play a game.Of course it varies a lot, so if you insist on living in Australia and snorting the newest space marine characters it'll work out a lot more expensive.That said WGA and Northstar kits are around £1 a model, so GW is certainly relatively pricey.
>>94750460>If you're an alcoholic, it's completely affordable.Okay bro relax
>>94749719>skiing is expensiveDepends where you live. All I need to skee during winters is a set of secondhand equipment, the nearest ski-track goes right next to my house.Definitely less than a sizable army for a non-GW miniature game.
>>94749130Thanks, good advice, I'm not gonna order 2k points of grey shame.
>>94750460Australian pints are like $15 though so it's not more of a rip off.
>>94750651>a few pints a week>alcoholicAnd I thought I was a lightweight.
>>94750699That's like me, who lives next to the sea, buying pic related for 200 bucks second hand with a third hand motor and saying that I am a sailing enthusiast and on the same earning and expenditure level as all boat owners. Skiing is expensive for 99% of the world and it is expensive for you too if you do more than go to next door with cheap equipment, same way that sailing would become expensive in my example if you want to do more than skim around a 50 (nautical) miles area around your port.For those of you that don't know, a boat is basically a black hole where you ritually burn your money and time because you like getting blasted by salt.
>>94748640I think sport can be very expensive. For Polo you need a horse. Football needs protective gear and goals. I would say soccer and basketball are cheap as long as you do it as a game and not competitive.
>>94749042This. Dont try to be competive or completionist. Go for small point value army. Aim for small fun games that take only 1-2 hours.
>>94749719Good post. Your pic is really the 40k fan that owns a big army.
>>94749127> *incredibly* expensive within the niche of tabletop games,If you consider card games as tabletop games, not really. A competitive magic deck can easily cost the same or more than a 40k army.
>>94748554Not really that expensive.I collect Lego, play Paintball and i used to go fishing. None of these is cheap compared to a warhammer. Paintball and fishing have quite steep entry costs, easily dwarfing the cost for an entire army purchased at once (which is something you really should not do). You can do all those hobbies with a budget, but that $100 fishing rod or that uses paintball gun for $200 will need to get replaced eventually. Those first couple of miniatures can be stripped and repainted and used forever. And all of the cost above are peanuts when I think about how much my car did cost, so it's always a matter of perspective
>>94749127>There is no valid economic or logistical reason why miniatures from Games Workshop are as expensive as they are, save that "GW thinks the market will bear it". Supply v. Demand. Games workshop regularly sells out of products to the point their supply can't keep up with demand. If anything the models are underpriced.
>>94749887>But you could buy a secondhand carbon fiber bike for like 1k and come out cheaper than some 2000pt armies.Isn't that an unfair comparison? Of course you can get some hobby gear for cheap id you are smart and buy used items. But it applies to Warhammer too. If you spend those 1000 on used Warhammer, you would also get those armies for less than retail.
>>94750699>Next to my houseThat's like saying I live in Nottingham and all I have to do is to collect Warhammer minis from their factory garbage bin.
>>94748554anon, please dont.Battletech is in the middle of a Golden age. $900 in battletech with get you all the starter boxes and 7 or 8 complete companies (which is a ful army)$800 in 40k wont even score you half an army.just dont. 40k is a fucking money pit.
>>94748554yes, compared to other model based games, extremely. Prepare to pay a 300% markup per equal amount of plastic on GW brand minis.A box of 35 fine 28mm man sized models from a non GW line Like Oathmark or Parry will run you like 30-40 bucks. WHile a kill team of only 11 models from gw is like twice that much at 65$Its managable if its what you want to dedicate a lot of your time too, but Id personally start with either small GW kits first or non GW kits beofre you dive into it. Cause if you go head first into a combat patrol (which is only like a 1/3 of a 40k game points wise) and figure out its not for you, you are already a few hundred dollars down between the minis and paints and stuff.
>>94751896That said, there are games like Conquest which are even more expensive than GW
>>94751784Lovely army this ladlove seeing stuff from different eras in one cohesive force, especially "firstborn"
>>94751896>box of 35 fine 28mm man sized models from a non GW line Like Oathmark or Parry will run you like 30-40 bucks. WHile a kill team of only 11 models from gw is like twice that much at 65$Don't get me wrong, Oathmark is a fun game, and Perry and Northstar make good stuff. (I have plenty of converted frostgrave cultists myself), but to play oathmark or any historical game those Perry minis are aiming at, you need more than just one box. With that 11 mini KT you are good to go and can play KT (yes, I'm aware, some teams kinda need a 2nd box). You could argue that for the price of 20 Krieg veterans you can get like 90-100 oathmark dwarfs or something, but then you need to paint those 90 dwarfs...
>>94751784How much is that army if bought at once?
>>94751886>$800 in 40k wont even score you half an army. just dont. Completely false lol, there's many armies that you can build with only $500
>>94751896You can't compare a historical models to fantastical models. There's a much smaller cost to designing something when you don't have to come up with an original design in the first place.
>>94752004lmaoIf anything historical models are harder to design due to all the involved research to get things right and designing in the way that can be manufactured, you can't just make shit up or remove the fourth head from the monster because it didn't fit the sprue.
>>94751994>only $500That's still a fucking lot for less than $10 worth of plastic.
>>94751955Bolt action doesn't need that many miniatures.>With that 11 mini KT you are good to go and can play KT True but historical miniatures can be used (ignoring proxying) in more games.
>>94751886>$900 in battletechGo ahead and play Battletech, but don't give money to Catalyst. Their CEO embezzled money to renovate his house instead of paying contractors, and his response to getting caught was, "oops".
>>94752055>If anything historical models are harder to design due to all the involved research to get things right and designing in the way that can be manufacturedLol, you think looking up images of old uniforms is "research"? They're making miniatures for games, that not historians and don't hire any.
>>94752065>woah are you telling me there are other costs in the manufacturing process beyond material????
>>94752065>$10 worth of plastic.If you approach it with that mindset, little hobbies will ever be worth it.You get miniatures which you can spend countless of hours to paint them, then spend countless of hours playing with them together with your friends, potentially even having fun the entire time. Its a hobby after all, not an investment.
>>94752083Bolt Action might not require 3 boxes a 30 soldiers, but you'd need some more things like tanks etc, so you'd roughly arrive at the same price as if you would buy 3 boxes a 30 oathmark minis. >True but historical miniatures can be used (ignoring proxying) in more games.Thats true, but kinda besides the point. A full WW2 army for (most) historical games in 28mm (and probably 15mm too) will cost you more than a single kill team, thats why it was a bad comparison. Nobody will disagree that Bolt Action or historicals in general are cheaper than 40k. But Kill Team is a different horse entirely.
>>94752291that has nothing to do with you, me, the fan base, the game or its value.you want to whine about the 1% stealing from the 1%, go ahead but take it to /pol/. it has no place in this thread.
>>94752055Now that is cope. >you can't just make shit up or remove the fourth head from the monster because it didn't fit the sprue.Then the sprue just wont include an AT-Rifle, HMG and other support weapons that historically were used by Grenadiers or will just include only 3 Mp-40s and not 6. Only one captured PPsH and not 5.
>>94751994>Completely false lol, there's many armies that you can build with only $500it is impossible to amass 2000 points with $500 in 40k.fact.
>>94751784what red is this?
>>94751902fair enough, just in terms of the grand scale of things. See if painting and playing models isa good fit for you with cheaper stuff before diving into the deeper end of the pool.
>>94751955You dont have to play oathmark with Oathmark minis. I personally like to buy fantasy/historical looking sets cause I can use them in a lot of different games. If you want skirmish level stuff with like 30 minis a side, you can play lion/dragon rampent. If you wan to go even smaller scale of like 5-15, you can play frostgrave/rangers of shadowdeep/mordheim, of you want to go full rank and flank with 100+ you can do stuff like Oathmark or Hail ceaser.There is just a lot of different indie games you can experiment with when it comes to historical/fantasy. Im not as into more modern stuff like wwii, but I believe there is a degree of veriety as well with games like boltaction.
>>94752004lmao, not at all. And that doesnt explain shit like Kreig which model and skulpting wise is pretty much just WWI germans.GW sets arent priced according to how "fantastical" they are, they are priced in accordance to how much relitive plastic they have. Other killteams from more exotic factions are the same price. And the GW name brand tax on plastic is 300% more compared to the average of the rest of the market.
>>94753067Both sets are below $100. Both allow to play with what is in the box. Are we really arguing about $40? Thats not even a fucking dinner. Its nothing.In terms of "expense", especially compared with entire armies, any Kill Team is a fucking steal and not expensive at all, even if other miniatures are way cheaper. Next you find something for 34,95 and suddenly those Oathmark boxes are expensive?
>27 Chicken Walkers>1755 points>$1687.50 USD + taxYou're not poor, are you?
>>94748554people will say "no its not that expensive, look at X hobby like car modding or expensive telescopes or whatever" but it IS expensive for what you get. $1000+ for half a pound of plastic soldiers that can fit in a generous shoebox is insanely expensive for what you are getting. yes, cars are more expensive. but you are also getting a 2k+ pound combustion engine vehicle, not a few handfuls of inch tall plastic soldiers.
>>947531422 Months of flipping burgers at MCD.
For the most part people have said most of the major talking points, but really one benefit to Warhammer/miniatures games compared to other expensive armies is that unless you whale hard in the beginning on a full army, most purchases are done in small increments barring something like 40k Knights. An army might total $1000 but your expenses for a month might be a $40 box, $3 thing of glue, and some assorted paints, and depending where you buy all of those you can save quite a bit. It's why you see a lot of minis people in that "wealthy poor" category where they drive everywhere in a half-broken car from 1994 and own 3 shirts but still have a fully painted Space Marine army with options. They will never be able to afford large expenses like a house, but a $35 character model is no big deal.
>>94753170>but it IS expensive for what you get.And this is where you cant win the argument. >plastic soldiers>half a pound of plastic>not a few handfuls of inch tall plastic soldiers.If Warhammer (or any Wargaming minis) are just little plastic toys for you, then you will never be happy in this hobby. Then even pic related (>>94753067 ) skellies are expensive. Its still $35 for some gramms of plastic toys. But it is a hobby Anon. You have to value the money vs the enjoyment you get out of it. How much fun you have while assembling, painting and making up little stories about /yourdudes/ while doing it. All those awesome gamenights with your friends while playing miniatures games (it does not have to be warhammer, any game is fun). Maybe playing on some tournaments, maybe entering a painting competition. Look at >>94751784 If thats just some random cheap plastic toys in your eyes then thats your loss. I bought an Etha paintball gun a while ago in autumn for $600. (no hopper, no pressure bottle and nothing else with it btw, if id did not had those already, it would have been easily above 1000) I played 4 times with it since then. Maybe 7-8 hours in total. Money well spent in my opinion. I will have fun with that thing for a while. In the same period of time, i spent like 40+ hours playing Kill Team and the Fallout Wasteland Warfare game (using Warhammer minis actually) during my friends group weekly game evening/night. Again, money well spend.I got plenty of "value" back from both my hobby expenses here, but if you think those miniatures are not worth it then its simply the wrong hobby for you. Maybe an old guitar holds better value for you. Or a collection of WW2 guns. Or maybe Pokemon booster packs. Who knows.
>>94751503>buying pic related for 200 bucks second hand with a third hand motor and saying that I am a sailing enthusiastyou should absolutely do this, because it would be fucking hilarious
>>94753261boy thems a lot of words to have missed my point entirelythe ENTIRE purpose of using plastic injection molding as a business is to crank out rapid, low cost product that costs pennies to produce and can be run in bulk orders as often as you want. any perception of a box of plastic injection mold sprues as "boutique products" "rare" or "valuable" is entirely manufactured by a monopolistic single bull in the pen to inflate the value of their product well beyond what a healthy competitive market would bare for how inexpensively and rapidly their product can be manufactured. "oh but they have to pay the artists, they have to pay the designers, think of the staff!" GW famously pays its staff middling to below industry standard wages, especially its artists whom it doesnt even credit in its workat the end of the day, you are paying $1000 for maybe 30-40 pressings of injection mold sprues of fantasy and scifi characters that cost them less than $1 to manufacture and warehouse. the profit margin on warhammer is insaneother comperable companies using the same processes such as zbrush CAD design, and injection mold production, can afford to sell their miniatures at 1/6th the price while simultaneously having lower sales volume and stock turnovergames workshop is just absurdly expensive for plastic injection molded sprues.
>>94753170>it's not heavy enough to be worth that muchEver heard of jewelry? Microchips? Stamps? Arguing about the weight is just bizarre.
>>94753398>games workshop is just absurdly expensive for plastic injection molded sprues.Yes. But the question here is not if GW models are overpriced or not, its if "Warhammer 40k" is an expensive hobby.It does not matter if GW is getting rich or poor here, all that matters is if its expensive as an hobby. And its not really, if you compare it with other hobbies. It becomes expensive if you remain at your "this is just cheap plastic toys"-Moms PoV, unable to see the entire hobby aspect. Nobody cares how cheap the miniatures are made.
>>94753398>at the end of the day, you are paying $1000 for maybe 30-40 pressings of injection mold sprues of fantasy and scifi characters that cost them less than $1 to manufacture and warehouse.+ all the hours of gameplay i get out of the 30-40 sprues i bought. If i spend 100 hours on assembly and painting, which is easily an option, then its "just" $10 per hour. Cinema is more expensive than that. If i spend another 100 hours actually playing with the army i bought and painted there, then its cost is down at $5 per hour of enjoyment. And that do you call expensive?
>>94748554Depends what you expect of the hobby. If you want to spend $$$$ on paints and brushes because your models need to have every detail painted it gets expensive. If you run horde army, it's expensive. If you are metachaser, it's expensive. If you just want to paint your dudes with some 10 colours, your army is semi elite or full of vehicles and point-expensive units, and you are patient and buy only value boxes, or second hand boxes that people hoarded... then it gets fairly accessible. I have Drukhari, that could be considered expensive army, because the models are point-cheap (talos/cronos is kit for like $50 and cronos was what, 50 points?). But they are nice, because you can kitbash and the combat patrol is god tier, so good it pushes the army to cheap range if you want to run only kabal - buy four combat patrols, a few scourges and kill team of mandrakes, easily within $750 for 2000 points. Way more expensive if you want have covens, though. But the point isn't starting at 2000 pts (unless you want that), it's about slowly building your army... just painting the four combat patrols would take you easily two years - let's say $40 a month for hobby, including glue, tools, paints and some meadow and flowers decoration for bases. Most people spend more on their hobby per month I would guess? And obviously you could go way cheaper. Custodes have insane value boxes, be it combat patrol or battleforces. Paint is just a spray can, wash and two or three colours for details. And they are as elite as you can get. $400 range easily, and again, despite the simple colour scheme and low model count, you will spend a year, maybe more, if you don't want to burn out, before you build them. So per month? $25-30...
>>94753142What do you spend the other 245 points on?
>>94748554Apart of it becoming increasingly expensive, it also becomes more neutered in art, lore and design.It's stopping being grimdark every day since the dawn of 8th ED.
>>94752004>There's a much smaller cost to designing something when you don't have to come up with an original design in the first place.if GW fanboys weren't the sort of freak that gets online and asspulls obvious bullshit like this in defence of a fucking company then they mightn't fuck you so hard in the first place
>>94753112Im arguing comparative market prices.A 12 pack of bubble gum costing $12 is "nothing" as well in the grand scheme of things, anyone can afford it, its still stupid expensive FOR bubble gum, for what the product is, they're usually 3 dollars, maybe 6 if its a fancy name brand promotion. Im going to call that $12 pack overpriced. Get it if you want, im just saying it is overpriced for what it is.>Are we really arguing about a product being 2 to 3 times other quality trusted brands?yes.>>94753261yah, totally, the value is up to you, im just saying if someone just wants to dip their toes into a hobby, might as well start on something with low sunk cost. Id also recommend getting a 20$ high grade or a 50$ master grade gunpla before cashing in on a 300$ perfect grade gunpla, But if you got the disposable income and inclination, go ahead.
>>94753112>"11 normal sized 28mm dudes for 75 bucks">"thats actually a good price!"...are GW paypigs honestly this broken in?
>>94753642>Im going to call that $12 pack overpriced.And it is. But thats besides the point, just like a Gundam kit.Is GW expensive. Yes.Is GW expensive compared to other Wargames. Yes, but not all of them are cheaper.Is "GW" an expensive hobby, if viewed through the eyes of an adult with a normal income? Certainly not, nor is any other of "our" /tg/ hobbies. GW is expensive if you view it strictly as toys (and even then there is Lego..) or through the eyes/wallet of a college student or any other young adult without proper job yet.
>>94753642>Id also recommend getting a 20$ high grade or a 50$ master grade gunpla before cashing in on a 300$ perfect grade gunplaAbsolutely. But nobody in their right mind would recommend to anyone interesting in Warhammer to go all in and drop those $2000 at once. Usually people recommend to buy a cheaper paint set from Vallejo or similar and then buy a box of troops, or check Kill Team first, which is the reasonable approach.
>>94752065>the price of things is determined entirely by the wholesale cost of the material they are made out of!I see so many people say this it's a fucking miracle civilization exists.
>>94753729I guess it still seems like an expensive subset within the general category of Traditional games. which seems like the more reasonable comparison point then a hobby like buying and tunning up harley Davidsons.>>94753743Even before killteam id recommend buying some generic figs and see if you like that first. buy some 10 pack of minis for $20 instead of laying down triple A game prices on a kill team squad you might not even finish.
>>94748554I don't know how much yachting or whatever costs, but the game is more expensive than other miniatures games. I mostly stick to Battletech and Gunpla these days.
>>94753729>legofunny you mentioned that. To my mind GW and lego have very similar market strategies. Became the big name in their sector, got kids hooked when young, then inflates the price sky high cause they have captive legacy fans who are willing to shill out for the one name brand thing instead of looking at competition who prove that their prices are magnitudes more overinflated then they need to be competitively.THough DESU, I think GW is way more guilty of this name brand upcharge then lego in terms of proportional price.
>>94753785>like buying and tunning up harley Davidsons.Its also a potential hobby for an adult with cash to waste. Just like warhammer.
>>94753814You are right that both companies rely on their main customers growing up with their respective toys, and then as adults stick to what they know and love out of tribalism or nostalgia.But Lego is worse in my personal opinion, because while you can make fun of primarch-slop, or dont like the setting, dont like recent changes to the lore etc, at least GW has their own setting, and its mostly their setting that people love them for.Lego does rely massively on the popularity of their bought licenses like Harry Potter, Minecraft and Star Wars.GW only has LotR as a non-gw-franchise and it saved their ass once, but its not what GW is really famous for. What Lego really sets apart from GW is their behaviour towards the competition, especially the legal one. Sure, GW also sues for copyright infringement, but Lego is particularly nasty when it comes to smaller traders that try to sell legal brands next to their own product. Imagine GW would try to force LGS to stop selling Perry, Northstar and other brands of miniatures, because they are "wargaming miniatures" and that is "their" property.
>>94753816no one here is an adult. only different forms of children and manchildren.
>>94753865As soon as you have 4-5 figures per month you count as an adult.
>>94753857GW would have a much harder time doing that since they didnt originate wargaming, historicals and other castings have been around since forever, While the modern brick building toy series is much more deeply connected to lego (not that they invented it, but the lego brick itself is much more eminently patentable then the broader concept of miniatures which is harder to craft a firm IP).With lego at least a lot of thier IP's arent directly under thier thumb and I generally think they are more dynamic as a company, since they cant rely on brands they only have conditional contract use of while GW can sit on thier ips.
>>94753676It's IP not just plastic. The Mona Lisa is $5 of paint on an old rag.
>>94754563except there is 1 mona lisa. but if you want to pay 300 dollars for not just any funko pop, but a funko pop painted GREEN like the HULK go ahead. Ill judge you for it though.
>>94748554It’s middle of the road in terms of cost. My friend is a Leeds season ticket holders and spends probably £1500 a year across following them from tickets to food to post match drinks. People who think 40K is an expensive hobby don’t really know what actual expensive hobbies are like horse riding, skiing or car racing.
>>94752332>the million autistic grogs who argue forever over what true fieldgrey is wont condemn your model forever if you sculpt your webbing wrong, your early-war sherman has the incorrect mantlet, your glacis is 5 degrees off being the right angle or you sculpted zimmerit for an incorrect period Except they will, historical sculptors do huge amounts of research to avoid this
>>94748640>on par with trading card gamesNo fucking way dude. Unless you're a real pay piggy that dumps 609 for the one ring or some shit, 40k is blisteringly expensive. A carrying case alone is worth nearly a hundred for the cheap stuff. An army will easily run you 1000 bucks. This is without the paint and brushes.
I don't find it especially expensive in terms of adult hobbies. I don't think my total spending on bits and pieces for wargaming and scale modelling, including airbrush setup, kits, tools, paints, is more than a moderate option package on a new car. I've spent more on tiling than I've ever spent on plastic.GW is too expensive, but if the market will pay... If I were trying to defend them they should be slightly more expensive than their competition in as far as their release schedule is fairly brisk which affects amortizing the moldings. If you want the same army for 30 years, they could be cheaper, GWs customers do not. And in fairness to them, you generally do get different figures these days, they aren't all clone armies and they aren't generating variations through inserts into the frame which would be another way of saving money. Their quality is also generally pretty good although they aren't Bandai.
>>94751813Yes, that's what he said. There is no valid economic reason for them to cost so much.
>>94753729>GW is expensive if you view it...through the eyes/wallet of a college student or any other young adult without proper job yet.The issue is that THAT is their primary customer base. Late teens and adults in their early to mid 20s. Those are the people who you should be trying to get into your game as hard as possible so they keep playing into their (theoretically) financially flush mid adult years. And those are the exact people that GW is hellbent on pricing out of the hobby.
>>94755442>they should be slightly more expensive than their competitionIMO, if GW was 10% more expensive than the competition, that's within the boundaries of reason. Bring literally double, and in some cases close to triple the price of an equivalent item (a plastic 1/48th scale WW1 tank kit is $22.99 at my local Hobby Lobby, as of my trip there today; a Leman Russ tank kit is $70), is completely and wholly indefensible.People are willing to pay for quality, and GW does offer very good quality in their products, finecast debacle aside. A commensurate markup is fine. But a 200-300% markup is outside that boundary by a LOT.
>>94748554>Is 40k actually all that expensive compared to other hobbies? If so, what hobbies do you have to compare it toAs another anons have said, depends on what you compare it to. Fitness is cheap, my gym is $100 a month, I buy a $300 pair of shoes about once every 9 months to run in, gym gear is old t shirts, so it's very cheap.Car stuff however, my car is very lightly modified and I have spent about 5k on it.Also it depends on how you play it, if you want a bunch of 10k armies, buy direct from GW and use all their products, yeah, it's pretty expensive.If you buy from LGS, use alternative tools/paints and only buy what you need/stick to skirmish games, it's pretty cheap.Finally, how much disposable income do you have? If you're stretched, it's expensive. If you have plenty left after each pay then it's not.My personal recommendation would be looking at combat patrol prices or Kill Team and going from there.
>>94748554For the level of quality, amount of materials, and ease of production, Warhammer is insanely overpriced and GW shows zero willingness to actually invest in better hardware that would improve quality and reduce the price, because paypigs will pay any fucking price they set and no matter how loudly they squeal about the prices, they keep paying. Some bitches are so broken that they think it's a point of pride and status that they are able to pay so much for GW's slop.
>>94748554Get a Combat Patrol or a Kill Team. Between $200 and $50 depending on your having art or crafting supplies on hand.Cut, assemble, paint, and play a game. And then you'll know if it's worth it to you or not.You can spend all day trying to decipher the market values and merits of toy soldiers, but you honestly won't know until you try it firsthand. I know I've spent scads of money since I got hooked on this back in the 00's. But I can't tell you whether or not it's worth it because I'm not you.
>>9474855440K is expensive. Shockingly enough Horus Heresy is cheaper now, if you get and kitbash plastic. 230 for a 2000 point army is what your looking at, Canadian dollars at least. The same value gets you under 1K points in 40k.
>>94754563You clearly know nothing about the cost of paint. Especially the cost of paint back when the mona lisa was painted. They literally had to crush precious gemstones to make some of those pigments.
I remember this sort of thing killing fantasy at my LGS back in the day, nobody wanted to buy, build, and paint 2000 points, it was expensive and a lot of work.
>>947553201000 bucks is not "blisteringly expensive". For 1000 you don't even get a front bumper for most cars.
>>94755527People in here are 30+, and so are most players. For smaller budgets there is kill team, warcry, blood bowl and other smaller games that usually can be played for less than $150. That's not expensive.
>>94755586this. GW should upcost like 150% for their brand. A notable but still reasonable increase, instead of shooting to a whole nother magnitude of price at like 250%
>>94755967You should compare it to other hobbies within the realm of miniatures and, well, hobby shops.>you can spend all day trying to decipher the market values and merits of toy soldiers.No you dont. It literally takes 5 seconds looking at almost anything other then games workshop. Dont need to be a market analyst.
>>94755586>a plastic 1/48th scale WW1 tank kit is $22.99 at my local Hobby Lobby, as of my trip there today; a Leman Russ tank kit is $70This is the really big thing. GW quality is absolutely no match for a company like Tamiya. Yet Tamiya models are selling for a third of what GW charges, AND are better quality. Tamiya clearly makes enough from their kits to be profitable. Tamiya has the same sort of setup and design costs (both required mold plates and design) that GW does, so those costs aren't an excuse for GW. Japan is even higher cost of living than the UK, so GW can't use the excuse of having to pay their people more. All of which means that anything above Tamiya price that GW charges is ENTIRELY profit margin. There is no reason, none, period, whatsoever, to have to pay $70 for a 20 year old plastic tank kit in roughly 1:48. There's no reason to pay $50. If Tamiya sells at $25/kit, then GW can charge somewhere between $25-30. That's fine. *Anything* more is gouging and fanboys should be ashamed and neck themselves for defending it
>>94757373>>94757357You are beating a dead horse. It's still completely besides OPs point.
>>94757373Everyone else in the models and minis field is either charging far less or invested in way better tech, while GW goes>you don't understand! Injection molding is really hard and expensive and new molds cost a lot!While Bandai is out there trailblazing shit that's 50 years ahead of GW's best products for a fraction of what GW would charge for an equivalent model
>>94755020>the million autistic grogs who argue forever over what true fieldgrey is wont condemn your model foreverAnd literally don't matter, if this small niche (thar is no where near 100,000 let alone a million) are your customer base, you'll likely producing models as a side gig and not an actual company that can meet the demands of a an actually large customer base.
>>94754719>except there is 1 mona lisa.And there's a limited amount of GW minis too, hence them selling out quite often. How can you both understand supply and demand but not also see that there's a higher demand for GW minis than their supply? >but there's other minis from other manufacturersAnd there's other paintings you fuck head.
>>94753676>spending $35 bucks on <100 skeletons when you can buy THIS kino for $15https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Figures-Military-Soldiers-Accessories/dp/B0BF9S7YLK/ref=asc_df_B0BF9S7YLK?mcid=eed1c71abd143fdba849a546fe44fa81&hvocijid=11997187617871035811-B0BF9S7YLK-&hvexpln=73&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=721245378154&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11997187617871035811&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006806&hvtargid=pla-2281435177858&psc=1
>>94755020>Except they will, historical sculptors do huge amounts of research to avoid thisExcept they don't lol, you're just pulling this out of their ass. Perry doesn't hire people solely to research uniforms, GW hires people solely to draw concept art for new designs.
>>94752389You can get an average sized 2000 points for less than $500 even, buy three custodes combat patrols and you get up to 2420pts worth for $504
>>94753398>the ENTIRE purpose of using plastic injection molding as a business is to crank out rapid, low cost product that costs pennies to produce and can be run in bulk orders as often as you want.Yeah and it's cheaper than what GW used to do with metal. Even if you ignore inflation GW plastic models today are cheaper than the metal models the originally sold.
>>94755506
>>94753814>then inflates the price sky high cause they have captive legacy fansGW prices haven't increased beyond reacting to monetary inflation.
>>94757541>While Bandai is out there trailblazing shit that's 50 years ahead of GW's best products for a fraction of what GW would charge for an equivalent modelWhich is why GW is greedy and evil, and why pirating their merchandise is morally justified.>>94757648Supply and demand is not a valid excuse for price gouging.
>>94748554I love how like 90% of the people in this thread have no idea how much a warhammer army even costs, I see $1000 thrown around alot when the actual number is ~$600 if you're buying for value and even less when you take advantage of army bundles.
>>94757675I find it even funnier that people think $1000 is somehow a lot of money in 2025. If you can't justify that much over a year's period for your hobby then you need to get your life in order. It's less than most people pay for rent here every month.
>>94757675Classic fox and grapes
>>94757675I've picked up about about 1500 points of guard models for just over £100 in the last couple of weeks through second hand ebay lots. Half the fun of the hobby for me these days is seeing how cheaply I can do it.
>>94758486>>94757774When the subject of "GW costs too much" is brought up, it's completely dishonest to point out that it's cheaper when bought second hand. No shit it's cheaper. Nobody cares. The point is how much *GW* is charging, not some rando on eBay. And for that rando to have it for sale, GW had to have sold it to someone in the first place, so their price at retail is still the relevant issue. If nobody buys the item at retail, there's no second hand supply anyway.
>>94757774>find it even funnier that people think $1000 is somehow a lot of money in 2025This, but add a 0 to that value before the decimal. If you aren't capable of putting aside 10 grand a year on your hobbies, then you don't deserve to have hobbies. Go work harder and be successful. Then you can have fun.>waahh if I don't have a hobby for fun I'll literally die!Good. Die then, and reduce the surplus population.
>>94758606>GW costs too muchThat is not the subject though. It's, "Is 40k an expensive hobby?" This is why it's being compared to other hobbies, and why being able to get things cheaper second hand is entirely relevant. You are confusing the two, which suggests you are either stupid or a liar.
>>94749719Bro even in Australia Warhammer is cheaper than a quality cage and good bumper plates
>>94756494>They literally had to crush precious gemstones to make some of those pigmentsNoAnd while he exaggerated his point stands
I'd say Warhammer is the most expensive of tabletop hobbies. For one, it has a lot of costs people don't explain, like how expensive paints, brushes, primer, etc go, and thats just if youre okay with your guys looking like shit. If you want to have good looking miniatures, you can spend a few hundred more on GOOD hobby supplies like more paint, an actually decent brush, an airbrush, etc. You also need space for all this stuff. And time.The other issue is that the prices of models goes up ridiculous amounts every year. GW raises the price in a rather abusive way, and warhammer fans kind of just keep paying it. Worse yet they retire kits all the damn time so if you see a model you really like, theres a chance you have to pay ebay prices for it. Do you have a friend who already plays? Or one with a good resin 3d printer?Id say only get into 40k if you really like a specific faction that captures your imagination AND you have a passion for working on and modeling little guys and fully customizing your own army. If you were saying you want to paint little miniatures, maybe even kitbash and get some modeling putty and sculpt a few little embellishments on your guys, then paint them nice... If that sounds really fun then I'd say absolutely get into it, just know it will be expensive up-front and in the longrun. If youre just kind of curious and think the guys on the box look pretty cool... I'd say save yourself the trouble. You'd end up as just another guy with a box of halfbuilt shitty toys with moldlines and sloppy paint who never got to play more than a few demo games.
>>94759040https://gjepc.org/solitaire/gems-on-canvas-pigments-historically-sourced-from-gem-materials/Retard.
>>94758707Collecting jewelry is a cheap hobby if all you buy is a ski mask and a hi point.
>>94757570>And there's a limited amount of GW minis tooYou should invest in funkopops.
>>94759259Quoting an AI generated site doesn't mean anything
>>94759348ok retard
>>94748554>Is 40k actually all that expensive compared to other hobbies? If so, what hobbies do you have to compare it to?If we're talking about miniature games: yes.For Skirmish games like Malifaux, Relicblade, Frostgrave, and Moonstone you can get a playable force for well under what even a 40k "start collecting" box cost.And for 'minature agnostic' games(kit bashing essentially) like Mordheim, Turnip28, and Forbidden Psalm you can get that cost even cheaper since you can buy whatever models and bits from any game's store's bits bin. Building a 40k army specifically costs a lot of money because you need A LOT of dudes and the GW markup.
>>94754563>>94757570And tshirts of mona lisa are 10 bucks. Comparing a one of a kind artpiece to mass produced plastic sprews is fucking retarded. If you wanted an exaggerated comparison use Brand name products like SUPREME as an extreme example. whose value explicitly comes from IP and artificial scarcity rather than actual scarcity.Any reason why GW sells out of shit is because they think its profitable to produce things in limited quantity . Making plastic sprews isn't some hand made artisanal process. its mass production.
>>94759597>mass produced plastic sprews>Making plastic sprewsI'm unironically more triggered by this than anything else in the thread.It's SPRUES, you uncultured swine. The word is SPRUES.
>>94759597And that is why some figures of Warhammer are dirt cheap compared to a set of golf irons
>>94759667If you're dumb enough to play golf then you deserve to have as much money extracted from you as possible. Golf is shit and so is everyone who """plays""" it.
>>94759575Thats a super cool integrated base and diorama.
>>94759597>Comparing a one of a kind artpiece to mass produced plastic sprews is fucking retarded.Do you think that quantities only matter if there's only one of something? You can't be this dense anon
>>94759597>Any reason why GW sells out of shit is because they think its profitable to produce things in limited quantity .Lol, do you think they just leave production lines empty? That doesn't even make any sense. You do know every company produces a finite amount of product just in varying amounts right? Hell GW 100% produces way more minis than smaller companies that sell them for less. Never-ending the fact that selling out means you're actually losing potential profit, not gaining any.
>>94759287Yes because commiting a crime is definitely the same thing as just not buying things at the highest possible value.
>>94759771NTA but have you tried not to be an insufferable faggot?
>>94759808There's so much cool Mordheim stuff it's unreal.I think war-gaming is a cool spectacle, but I almost feel as though the true evolution of miniatures is to par things down to focus on 'your cool dudes'.
>>94759771Those grapes really must look like shit from your position Anon.
>>94759907>to par things down to focus on 'your cool dudes'.This really. Its about having fun and a good time while painting miniatures. Some people have more money and some have less. Some like to value every purchase because they have to, some do it because it is in their character, others either dont care or have enough money to not care about it.But all of that is true for any hobby. If you think its too expensive, either look for cheaper alternatives or do something else.
>>94748554yes. start small with something like kill team before diving into an army. sometimes you can find the prerelease army sets for a deal. i did that with black templars and the darkoath on AOS and saved almost $100 on each box.
>>94759818Anon, you can be seriously ok with comparing the market of single item Like the Mona Lisa with something in continuous production like GW kits. I Think you are the dense one if you dont find something wrong with that analogy. I even offered a better one with Supreme which functions much more like what we are talking about. But you can replace supreme with any other product line that continuously makes a standard product instead of custom work.>>94759831Anons specific defence was that they sell out often because they were particularly limited and comparing it to mona lisa which is a completely different kind of limited I think you have to agree.>every company produces a finite amount of product just in varying amounts right?correct, its not infinite, Im saying GW really lowballs it very frequently. Its a thing of degrees and GW does not fluff out their margin of error like most other companies in the general industry like Gunpla, Lego, and Victrix do. They are very ok with regularly completely selling out in a few days while thats a much rarer occurrence with most other producers in the industry which try to keep most active items avaiable at all times.As an example most other companies might produce 1200 units for market for 2 weeks if their forcast is to sell 1000 in that time, a 20% margin of error, while GW produces 1000 units for market in 2 weeks even if thier forcast is to sell 1000, so like a 1/4 of their catalog might be fucking unavailable at a time. I dont know how else you can explain it.
>>94760138Oh, and the other thing is that they arent limited by how much they can practically produce, their supply, but how much they practically WANT to produce. Which was my point that any scarcity that there might be, like when anon said ->And there's a limited amount of GW minis too, hence them selling out quite often. >see that there's a higher demand for GW minis than their supply?is artificial. is not a problem with supply, its a marketing choice by GW. They arent having a hard time finding enough arcane plastic, but they like not having surplus. vThey are totally capable of meeting demand, and making a profit, but they like the overhead of creating false scarcity.
>>94752348Some impessive mental gymnastics you're using there to justify paying Apple-tier money for Ikea-tier product. The minis cost what they cost because they can get away with it. End of story.
>>94757507OP is a retard, that's his problem.
>>94760628>The minis cost what they cost because they can get away with it.You are not telling anything new there? Still not an expensive hobby to most people, because hobby time is hobby time.
>>94751759>PoloNot the most fair comparison, as polo is prohibitively expensive.As in, pretty much only professional motorsports would be more expensive.To participate in polo, you don't need a horse. You need multiple, as the game can be rather demanding on the horses
>>94760661It's still prohibitely expensive for what your get. even those overcosted golf-irons have SOME production value behind them. It's all in the brandname.
>>94751503>implying you aren't sailing enthusiast if you don't own a sailing boat. Hell, you don't even need to own a boat. Even kids can become sailing enthusiasts if they join a club or something.
>>94752375It affects the game
>>94751886I play 40k and battletechBattletech hasnt send me my kickstarter rewards in 2 years and i live in the US
>>94761147Do you not realise that you keep repeating this production value bullshit. It's irrelevant for hobby products because the value comes from the hobby time. The time spend while playing Polo (to keep that example from Anon above) is not more valuable just because you need a few horses for it. If everything you do for fun is always measured for it's value, I honestly pity you.
>>94761178You don't have to own a Warhammer army to join a club that plays Warhammer. Maybe one of the adults let's you play with his army from time to time too. In that scenario, the Warhammer club has probably lower fees also.
>>94761147"For what you get" is a nonsensical qualifier for "prohibitively expensive" which specifically means the cost prohibits you from playing. And regardless of the cost of other miniatures, they really aren't expensive enough to prevent anyone but the dirt poor from playing. The time investment to build and paint them is far more significant than the price.
>>94761528>value comes from the hobby time.Says who? I find that claim ridiculous. By that logic the most "valuable" thing would be to do everything from scratch yourself.
>>94761584It prohibits by being dumbfounding when compared to the actual value.
>>94762114>hurrr durrr dont have fun be a contrarian on the internet who hates things for no reasonNah lmfao
>>94762467sorry chum not buying into your overpriced game with editions run to a clock designed to extract money from retard whales no matter how hard you try "lmao"
>>94761502Good. No other games but 40k should be legal anyway
>>94761584it's prohibitively expensive because my good sense prohibits me from buying into that shit
>>94748554I spend about 20 hours of wages every year on 40k stuff. That's way more than I can actually build and paint so I have a gigantic backlog. I've been doing this for 25 years now so I have a lot of minis, both painted and those who are still in boxes. It never occured to me to sell any of it.Honestly I spend about three times as much on Monster Energy Ultra White.
>>94757648here let me help your pea brain understand economics a little more. Supply and demand effects prices, that we understand. I, however, completely control the supply of the product and I know that no one else can supply this product to undercut me because I own the copyright.Therefore I can, strategically, produce only enough product to justify increased prices in the face of a known variable of demand.
>>94748554Almost any wargame that isn't made by Games Workshop costs 50% of what GW charges. A large number of them cost a third or a quarter less. Warlord, Wargames Atlantic, Mantic, Victrix, Gripping Beast, North Star Miniatures, Reaper are all pretty ok.You can also>play in 10mm or 15mm>buy board games that come with lots of miniatures>use 1/72 toy soldiers from italeri, airfix, HAT, Emhar or Caesar - this is very cheap but necessitates a couple of extra coats of gloss>3D print>play with paper miniatures (with a bit of base texture and a coat of laquer these are pretty good)>play with plastic army men and toy monsters (I literally do this) Instead of 40k last month I bought a bunch of Ion Age miniatures, 15mm sci fi, space knights, battlesuits, militia in greatcoats...
>>94749757Yeah playing a skirmish game in historical settings is as easy as buying 3-4 sample packs from Essex for each side, maybe a command and extra unit pack like a cannon, be surprised if that cost more than about 60 USD incl. Postage
>>94762838Most old school sculpts in the vein of classic GW are available from Ral Partha, Splintered Light, Alternative Armies, Brigade Models, GZG, Checkpoint miniatures, Essex, New Line Designs, Pendraken etc
>>94757357Oh I know it's expensive within the hobby space.Even compared to other GW games 40k is expensive. If you compare it to AoS which is an equivalent army game rather than skirmish games, the boxes are slightly cheaper for AoS and they're worth more points. Like a unit box is 200+ points rather than being 50 points
40k is expensive compared to other miniature hobbies. It's also probably the most widespread and well supported. For the record I've done mostly 40k/WHFB and Bolt-Action for about 15 years now, but I've played Star Wars Legion, Warmachine, Infinity, and Guildball. My experience with 40k has been that the detail and manufacturing of the models themselves has been the best of them. Compare a recent 40k or AoS mini to the new releases for Bolt Action, for example. The only important things to consider are, do you like it? Are you more interested in the hobby-craft side or the gaming side, or 50/50? It'll be worth considering if there is a community near you that plays regularly if you don't already have friends who do. The only advice I'd offer is to embrace the hobby aspect, don't chase the next model set or whatever if you have some still unfinished. It makes it all the sweeter to play a game when you have the time and effort spent on them.I'll tell you one thing, it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than my "hobby" of collecting C&R firearms.
>>94762114>would be to do everything from scratch yourself.If that's where your interest lay, yes. Soccer is immensely popular to many people.
>>94762490Nobody cares what you do Anon. The question still is: is 40k expensive. And compared with most things in the world, it's rather not.
>>94752389It's easy to do if you're willing to, y'know, not buy first party.https://youtu.be/BbRaC7pjoiU?si=z74Vjhtot8Iad48B
>>94765248This. There's no reason not to play 40k. It should be mandatory. It's the only tabletop game anyone should play.
>>94765248cept you guys clearly do care and far too muchoh well, you get what you deserve
>>94765346You do not get it. Play 40k if you like it. Or play kings of war. Or bolt action. Or play football or go skateboarding. But don't pretend 40k is expensive when things like car tuning are also a hobby.
>>94761119I know. But i think it shows very well that there is a big range how expensive a sport can be.
>>94748649>>94748972the thread was answered right in the beginning. tabletop wargaming isn't an especially expensive hobby. but games workshop marks everything up to many times its normal price.they're basically the hobby's version of a designer handbag that costs $10,000 even though it's made in the same factory and out of the same materials as one that costs $50. which at first blush doesn't seem like it makes sense, but spend a little time here and you'll meet many people so slavishly devoted to having The Official Brand that they'll pay any price. in some sense for them the high price is the point.
>>94748554Yes, but drugs are also an expensive hobby. Cars, clothes, women, all that normie shit. Don't splurge, pick things up gradually and be selective.
>>94762467>for no reasonThere's an endless list of reasons to hate these overmarketed toys
>>94766043Why? Hating something like a toy is completely irrational since it has no impact on you whatsoever
>>94765914GW has superior quality products. That's why they have dominated the market for decades. Also why other manufacturers are forced to sell at lower prices.
>>94748640>cookingI can easily spend upwards of £100 on the ingredients for a single meal which will only take a few hours to cook and eat. I have about £1000-worth of knives and pans, and they're mid-range at best. Decent appliances cost thousands. Cooking is not a cheap hobby.>drinkingHave you seen how much booze costs these days? Only conclusion I can come to is that you're spending huge sums every month on an ever-growing pile of unpainted grey plastic.
>>94766104>there's a list>why
>>947662611/5, made me reply
>>94748554The more important thing to ask yourself is what do your friends play/ what are they willing to play? Also see what your local game stores are running, not even tournaments but most places will have specific days people come to play Warhammer or whatever. This is a social hobby and if you have no one to play with it'll kind of suck. If you don't have anyone and just want to build/paint models you'd be better off getting cheaper models at first to get your feet wet.
>>94765914And then 40k is the most expensive game by far. It's had a scale creep over the years in terms of how many models are needed on the table. The exact same demon model in something like AoS is usually worth twice as many points. Pretty sure even TOW is cheaper per point.If budget is an issue, play anything except 40k.
>>94766807>40 years of complete market dominance>NPCs still somehow manages to convince themselves that competitors are "better" than GW
>>94766953>It's had a scale creep over the years in terms of how many models are needed on the table.This is blatantly false. And by even posting this cliche you demonstrate that you fundamentally do not understand what a miniatures wargame even is.
>>94765914damn this post made me feel stupid, I could have built my armies with miniatures from Mantic instead! They are made of the same materials! Why on Earth did I go with GW!!! There is absolutely no reason at all NOT to buy from Mantic instead!
>>94766996>mantic>cheap
>>94767051Fuck Mantic. I've found a chinese gentleman who is willing to sell many nice thick sheets of plastic, about 2 square meters each, for basically just pennies. And it's the exact same material as GW sells for literally three thousand times more per gram!
It is normie expensive, try collecting guns or cars and see how cheap 600 bucks worth of minis is relatively. That being said they are still remarkably overpriced, I bought a dystopian wars starter box and it came with enough minis for me to have two armies. An expansion box brought enough variance that you could have a lot of matches without using the same list twice. If your frame of reference for hobbies is buying a few videogames or watching sports i get it looking expensive. The cheapest hobby i have is hiking, if you aren't so spastic ultralighter a day hike is a backpack, some good boots, and a few jugs of water.
>>94766261GW has a popular IP. That's their secret. That's literally all it is. There's no other wargame with it's own dedicated chain of stores and dozens of video games and hordes of fans who will take any given opportunity to shout a fucking warhammer meme. At least Gucci can argue that they are using superior materials and construction, which necessitates controlled scarcity, because we can't produce leather as quickly as we can injection mold low grade plastic. The people comparing it to other hobbies are essentially deluding themselves into thinking they're getting the tabletop equivalent of top of the line sports equipment, or something as regulated and overtaxed as firearms. Weed is legal in my state, but the dispensaries are so overtaxed that you end up spend 200% more for something that you can drive 30 minutes over state lines and get the same exact product of the same exact quality and usually greater quantity for a few bucks.The only people who think GW products are inherently worth their pricetag or that the quality and relative cost of other hobbies is comparable are paypigs and they're so fucking broken and pathetic that they take pride in being paypigs and will use excuses on you that they want to believe to avoid acknowledging what a bunch of stupid faggots they've been for as long as they've been buying GW products.
It's absurdly expensive.I could literally make a 50,000 strong army out of a beehive for the price of a small tyranid army.
>>94767113>GW has customers only because their customers are stupid!! The product is only popular because it is popular!The stupidity of this statement is fucking mind-boggling. I've seen it posted on the internet since the late 90s.People buy warhammer kits because they like the way Warhammer kits look. If you had a single functioning brain cell you would understand this.
>>94767187Being purposefully blind to the self-reinforcing nature of the market doesn't mean it's not self-reinforcing.There's a reason every free market descents into monopoly until the government either collapses or breaks the monopolies.
>>94767208You guys just keep making up excuses instead of recognizing the obvious truth that is right in front of you. I've been in this hobby for a loooong time. I've built many armies for non-GW games. Most of those games are now discontinued and the manufacturers defunct while GW is bigger than ever. The reason behind this is fucking simple: GW make good looking miniatures that people desire when they see them.
>>94767273That's almost never been the reason why a market leader is the market leader, anon. Especially in such unregulated spaces as this one.
>>94767273The quality of GW's products is not at all correlated to their success.
>>94767295>>94767273in fact, making a barely standard product that almost anyone can accept will, 99/100 times, beat the pants off of any kind of quality-focused product.
>>94767302Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>94767303good ol' mcdonalds and minivans.
>>94767303Maybe the real reason that GW is so dominant is because people like you sit in the boardrooms of their competitors. Like people actually meme themselves into believing that GW sells an inferior product at a higher prizes but for 40 years it has been impossible to compete with them because some smart fucker once printed the words "grim darkness" on a big box and this "IP" is just too strong for the competitors to fight against, despite the "fact" that they supposedly have better minis, better rules, and really really low prices.
>>94767368That's actually exactly the standard monopoly arc in an unregulated industry.Which happens in all unregulated industries.And often means much lesser quality and higher prices all around.
>>94767381Are you saying governments should step in and regulate to give miniatures with less known IPs (such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones) a chance to compete?
>>94767381>>94767368Also, I find it strange that anyone would argue GW's models are competitive as models when, if compared to actually successful models (action figures and waifu figurines) they lack functionality, mold quality, modularity, and sturdiness.
>>94767398If you want a healthier market, yes.As it stands you're getting BTFOed by anime fags in the whale department and superdicks in the child market.
>>94767399I don't want action figures or waifu figurines. I want to build and paint armies.
>>94767413Then you are selecting much lower quality models than the ones used by anime fags for their army building.And you're choosing an I-go-U-go ruleset which I wouldn't wish on my greatest enemy.
>>94767405Ok so now we have the following claims:>GW products are inferior>GW products are significantly more expensive>GW is "getting blown the fuck out", whatever that means>Government should step in to "regulate" the miniatures wargaming market>The fact that GW is beating all competitors just proves that GW is bad
>>94767417You sound to be very happy with your waifu figures, that's great. I'm not getting any of those but I won't spend my time hating on them either.Regardless, GW exists and they manufacture sprues and these sprues sell to happy customers. Even it that fact makes you upset.
>>94767425As models, they are being beaten by much larger companies selling many more models, yes.As tabletop goods, they are extraordinarily expensive compared to their competitors, who often use paper standins, yes.As a ruleset, the quality is famously panned, has gone through more iterations than most others with less gains, and is often entirely ignored in favor of model building.And I'm sorry that the method of GW's market dominance in its small market is one that is strictly monopolistic. It could, perhaps, expand into larger markets if those didn't have multiple competing brands, a thing GW can't handle.>>94767437I'm not sure why you're insisting I'm upset when you've come in here claiming that your mind is boggled, and I gave you a very easy to understand explanation using basic concepts.
>>94767447>action figuresThe ones that you just take out of the box and put on a shelf? Not, a miniature wargaming hobby. An entirely different market and hobby.>paper standinsAgain, not a miniatures wargame then is it?>the rulesThere's is vast number of rules to chose from. You're not locked into any of them. Pick whatever you like best.You simply don't understand what a miniatures wargame is, that's why you don't understand why GW is successful.
>>94767468I'm not sure why you're acting like this over what appears to be a simple misunderstanding of economics on your part.I'm also pretty sure you don't actually play 40k, since the I-go-U-go is one of the sacred cows.
>>94767483Maybe the reason GW dominates their niche market is because they make what customers in that niche market wants? And those customers don't want anime figures or paper standins?
>>94767511Going by any GW thread, they are absolutely not making what the customers want.They're making the minimum the audience can put up with, which you'd know if you bothered to read a single book or look at a model.
>>94767526How's life in la-la-land? Enjoying the latest releases for Confrontation and Warmachine? What about X-Wing?
>>94755320absolute horse shit I just started this christmas with my very first army. granted I chose orks and did some scratchbuilding but I am at a 1000 points army for about 300$ including the paints and a couple brushes. I'm going to buy some more model bases, do some kit bashing and basically I'm set with a big army for under 500$. it can get even cheaper if you play something like astra militarum and go for third party generic armor dudessure you can spend a thousand bucks on your brand new army but who is gay enough to field so many skitari
>>94767689>500$>for toy soldiers>that aren't metal>that will get squattedOk
>>94767689Why would you buy a stompa
>>94767719I used to think like that.Then I started thinking.Why the fuck should I NOT have a fucking Stompa?
My advice is to just buy something you like and then paint it. Then, buy more when you want more and paint that too. You will very soon know if this hobby is for you or not. If not, then just sell your stuff and move on. If you like to keep going, then get more and paint more. Having a nice army that you built and painted yourself is a great feeling. You will have put a lot of time and effort into that, so much time and effort that the money feels irrevelant in comparison.
My most expensive hobby is fitness. Between the cost of the boxing gym, Jiu Jitsu classes, weight training gym, Gi, mouthguard, gloves, protein powder, eggs, ground beef etc I am paying a lot more to get jacked than I do on painting miniatures. Also my shitcoin speculation habit
>>94767815Anon didnt say have,he said BUY
>>94767719Imagine being allergic to fun as an Ork player.
>>94767078This is what most in this thread do not seem to get. There is a difference between something being overpriced and something being expensive.
>>94767526>They're making the minimum the audience can put up with,If that is enough to regularly sell out any new release then they do it right.
>>94767713 I have fucked escort girls for that money and had arguably less fun in those 5 minutes than I would have had paying 40k with Anons Ork army. Serious question Anon. Where do you life? If it's some kind of eastern block country or somewhere in Africa I get that 500 is a lot to you. But here in Middle Europe I really isn't.
>>947669601/5, made me reply. Try to form an half-assed argument how that has anything to do with quality and somebody might take the bait.
>>94767187>GW customers aren't stupid, because... THEY JUST HAPPEN TO LIKE LITERAL SHIT!lmao
>>94767324Stop coping and face reality, paypig.
>>94748554>Is 40k actually all that expensive compared to other hobbies?Yes it fucking is.>If so, what hobbies do you have to compare it to?You compare it to its closest equivalents: model aeroplanes/trains on the craft side (cheap) or boardgames and tabletop wargames on the game side (also cheap). In both comparisons 40k costs more than 10 times more than its closest equivalents. It's expensive as hell and you need absurd mental gymnastics to claim it isn't.
>>94768522Anon the people who've kept this shitty thread alive for three days don't actually play TTG, they just like arguing about things, and TTG got caught up in the culture war so now they hve to have Opinions on TTG for muh politics reasons. It's simple contrarianism and nothing more.
>>94769652It's not politics to point out that GW price gouges its customers and paypigs defend it.
>>94748554>thinking of building an armyIts expensive if you overload yourself at the start like what you're describing. Do not think about building an army as a starting point in 40k. I've seen people start by dumping hundreds into a thousand dollars into a 2000 point army and all thats gonna get you is a lot of unpainted plastic.Just start with a kill team box and expand from there. Don't buy GW paints, they're overpriced. Do not buy more models if you have unpainted models.
>>94770403It is politics to attack Warhammer for some asinine political cause, however. It's also contrarianism to dislike Warhammer solely because it's popular, which is the real problem here. Outside of a small minority of people who fell for grindset hustlers who don't want you to spend money on anything, the principle problem with Warhammer in this thread is that it's popular. The "expensive" part is just ammunition for that contrarianism, and these people have no problem with people "wasting" money on other "expensive" things. It's why they throw a fit if you point out that you can actually get Warhammer minis for cheaper than MSRP off of GW's website via all sorts of means. 3D printing, buying second-hand, resellers, deals, alternative retailers, etc, all of these are means to get around the fact that GW will suck as much blood out of you as it can. Those just incense the contrarian even more because the only reason that they dislike Warhammer at all is because it's actually good, which thus means that it's bad, and if you demonstrate that Warhammer is better (by virtue of being less expensive) then it's worse.
>>94751978Here is an itemized list, I will use the lowest in-stock amazon price in the US for current production kits, and lowest buy-it-now option available on ebay.com for OOP kits in either new in box or new on sprue condition, or assembled as shown in the image, whichever is cheaper:>OOP Dreadnought = $45 (assembled, unpainted)>Venerable Dreadnought = $53 (new)>Leviathan Siege Dreadnought = $71 (new)>OOP Terminators x8 = $52 (assembled, unpainted)>MK VI Tactical marines x40 = $142 (new, 2 kits of 20)>MK VI Tactical marines x5 = $22 (new, ebay lot of 5)>Space Marine Rhino x2 = $102 (new, 2 kits of 1)>OOP Baal Predator = $159 (new)>Legion Cataphractii Praetor and Chaplain Consul = $49 (new)>Special Weapons Upgrade Set = $40 (new)>Heavy Weapons Upgrade Set = $40 (new)Total: $571Plus average us sales tax of 6.44%: $607Shipping costs are not included.
>>94770403GW price gouges but anon is 100% right that nobody in this thead shitting on GW plays games they just want to be contrarion.Several retards in this thread mention the supposed shitty quality of GW kits but never actually say what it is thats bad about them. The mold lines are non existant and the details are second to none and the plastic is of excellent quality. This entire thread is warhammer=bad because its popular. Complaining about GWs extreme markups is one thing but then bitching and moaning about "shitty" model kits and rules is another thing and then completely ignoring that the reason GW can charge such a markup is because the competition is so fucking dogshit that they no longer exist.People in this thread can cope and say its the IP but warhammer started as a miniature wargame its not like it came from an already established franchise and several companies have come close to rivaling GW like privateer press before promptly shooting themselves in the foot so hard they had to sell the IP to another company. Theres also star wars X-wing a fucking star wars game which also failed and shut down end of 2024 or atomics other games marvel crisis protocol and star wars legion which have barely gained traction despite having some of the biggest IPs out there.
>>94770797Sorry missed some addition. That's $673 before tax, so $716.
>>94770797>HHlol. Lmao.
>>94770838Half the stuff in that pic is horus heresy kits, not sure what you want from me.
>>94770815>GW price gouges but anon is 100% right that nobody in this thead shitting on GW plays games they just want to be contrarion.It's pathetic that you think this is an assertion you can defend. Their sculpts look like ass and their prices are too high. Why would people who believe these things buy them or demonstrate encyclopedic, cited examples? All you have to do is go on GW's website and click literally any model and the point stands. Watch.This single model is 35 USD. It's two poorly arranged sprue runners made of cheap plastic. Most of the detail is painted on and what detail is there doesn't somehow excuse the price, because (You) will have to do all the work to make it look presentable, representing an even greater cost for something that's value is just so undeniably apparent to GW paypigs that they consider it an honor to be allowed to overpay for something that can be made in equal or greater quality on a 100$ resin printer.
>>94769652where tf has culture war popped up?>>94770815>>94770585I never said warhammer=popular=bad, I do play games, and i probably have been one of the gw detractors who has posted most in this thread. IVE personally found warhammer untenable because their prices are stupid expensive compared to the other hobbystore stuff I do like napoleonics. I couldn't justify to myself getting much more then a few sets from them cause the comparative bang for my buck from them is just so low compared to other models I am also interested in. They have good models, but their prices for those models are stupid.Some people in this thread might have attacked GW for stupid reasons, for contrarian reasons, but all ive been saying is that they have airport food kind of upcharging. GW models are good, thier ips are fun, and id be willing to pay 150% market average for sprue kits for that kind of stuff, but I find their 250-350% above market average prices ridiculous.People can be retarded about pooping on D&D too, having stupid arguments against it, that doesnt mean there isnt good arguments against it either.
>>94770838What about it?
>>94771024He may have thought I was a culture warrior for pointing out the largest business in any unregulated field tends to be incredibly shit, and then further pointing out the base turn system for warhammer are incredibly poor, and that the models tend to lack features, size, and quality when compared with contemporary model makers. They happen to be in a much more competitive market, and it shows.
>>94771051not an applicable 40k army of all things, and hh needs double 1.5 more plastic for an actual game of hh.
>>94771065eh, I mean, I do think GW's models tend to be pretty good on average. You can niggle about design choices, but their sculping of those choices I think are above average.Still think they are overpriced.
>>94771109though they do have some terrible placements of where some parts connect though from my experience. Bandai-gunpla has really impressed me in the last 10 years about being smart about where they put seams and nib locations.And even some smaller companies like Osprey, I really apreciated where they tended to put their nib connections in places like joints where pieces will connect together anyways and hide them
>>94771084Nigger what are you talking about? I gave the prices of the exact model kits that are in that image which was the question that was asked. Also that army looks to be about 2000 points on the nose.
>>94771024>where tf has culture war popped up?Anyone who disagrees with me is a tranny, and therefore is a culture warrior.
>>94771084I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Do you think that horus heresy is more or less expensive than 40k? Do you think that the $700 price tag of the minis in that image would get you a playable army in one game, but not the other or something, do you think what's pictured in that image isn't a playable army?
>>94771109Not really, they've not got very poor posability, are tiny, are cheap plastic, really the only place you can get away with this is wargames and nickel-price toy buckets.
