How poetic/aesthetically pleasing is the language used during your traditional game session? How embellished would you prefer the dialogue and off-game discussion? Asking as a philologist.
>>94761416I don't bother with language in my games, because any in-world speech is abstracted for the sake of gameplay.
All traditional games require a code. For chess you need merely sequences of letters and numbers. On the other end of the spectrum there are games in which you need to speak and/or write the right words countless times in order to win.>>94761438>I don't bother with language in my gamesBut language is everything. I'd like my GM/referee to speak in such a way that aligns with the game's theme.>because any in-world speech is abstracted for the sake of gameplay.This is a preference. If you would play a war game, would you find it pleasing to pretend the map is real and you are a real commander of armies? Or would you find that play of pretend not fun?
>>94761416Another philologist with the degrees here. You sound like a gigantic tool.
>>94761534Whether that pretend element is there or not makes no difference in the engagement, progression, or loss of the game.I play games because I enjoy engaging with the challenges, and finding different strategies established within the bounds of their rules. If I have to do a bunch of secondary shit just to have fun with it, or have to do secondary bullshit for some guy in charge to decide something on a whim, I look for something better to do.
>>94761761Would you, in the context of traditional games (open or closed systems), comprehend a game in which the secondary is actually the primary and the said engagement, progression and resolution of the game concerns only what you say and how you say it?>within the bounds of their rulesIn open systems (TTRPGs generally) it's all arbitrary anyway. The GM usually lets you win. In chess or monopoly I get it. I don't like chess nor monopoly.Temperament predicts voting behavior, but also the choice of game and style of gaming. Some people like theater circlejerk RPG, some want to win a lot in chess. I don't know if there's a third camp somewhere for people like me who belong to neither.Anyway, in my Mausritter game we pretend to be mice and my only goal for each session is nobody in the table can predict what will happen. Also if I describe something in a poetic way the players' imaginations become filled with ideas and the table talk will be more fruitful than if we used technical, mechanical language only. That is why I believe speaking in character and describing stuff with care results in more fun even if it is not required. Even when discussing OOC, rules and such you can do it in style and within theme of the game, keeping up the ambience. Social skills is the top RPG player skill. Second skill is rhetoric/argumentative skills and third poetic use of language.
>>94761416You mean English?
>>94761534You have fun convincing four people who can barely agree on a time to meet once a month that they should spend several months learning a new language for a game that won't even last two sessions.
>>94762088So did you mean to say "language" or "style of speaking"? Do you know what the word "language" means?
>>94761416I really like the vibes that using old fashioned language gives off and would love to go "Thee abandoned thy holy quest, prayeth bid wherefore thee shouldn't beest stricken wh're thee standeth", but I'm already cognitively swamped GMing to come up with that stuff. I sometimes use fancier expressions in important prewritten dialogue.The players and I could study talking like that outside the game so it comes naturally I guess, but that's way too much effort
>>94761416Language is tool of communication, you might as well ask how poetic/aesthetically pleasing is the hammer in my toolbox.
>>94765973Tools can be used in a beautiful way that fits the theme.
>>94761416We usually do in-character talking in English and out of character description and non game talk in our native language (Norwegian). Most movies, vg, etc for the genres we play are in English, so it often feels more natural to do the dialogue in English, while the descriptions are easier to do with succinct precision in our native language. Our dialogue therefore tends to emulate movie and tv dialogue.I think this is relatively common for bilinguals. Removing the ambiguity if you're in character or not really improves the flow compared to all English or all Norwegian.
>>94763834English and any language. There is a major discussion about whether to translate mainstream games written in English into [insert an European language].The hegemony of English language has caused my fellow countrymen to use an amalgamation of our native tongue and English, especially during RPG gaming sessions. The result is an awful hybrid pidgin/creole language which takes you out of the fiction, loses inherent aesthetics of both languages and it sounds really cringy. Some don't see the problem. They think it's natural language evolution, but it's not. It's happening fast and causing degradation.You Americans don't have to think how much work your English default is causing to the rest of the world. I wish I could work as a translator of RPGs, but nobody is paying for them.
>>94766087>The hegemony of English language has caused my fellow countrymen to use an amalgamation of our native tongue and English, especially during RPG gaming sessions. The result is an awful hybrid pidgin/creole language which takes you out of the fiction, loses inherent aesthetics of both languages and it sounds really cringy. Some don't see the problem. They think it's natural language evolution, but it's not. It's happening fast and causing degradation.I observe the same. It's not evolution of language as a whole, it's jargon. Pretty much a text case.
>>94766069>>94766087This is exactly what I'm talking about. We used English too at one point, but it was cringy as fuck and I put a stop to it.Norwegian is closer to English, but Finnish, my native tongue is closer to Quenya than any of the major European languages. If I were an Italian, German or Spanish maybe it would be worth my while to translate RPG games, but alas I'm Finnish. Our youth is abandoning our beautiful native tongue for "Finglish", a grotesque abomination. I believe this is a global phenomena, and alarming.Every popular media of the fantasy genre uses English and it smothers our native European storytelling. Less writers, less creators, smaller audiences, smaller markets. It is happening in other art forms as well like musical lyrics being written in English in the Nordic countries.Less chance for our people to produce an internationally distinguished author. Lesser chance still for the piece of work to be originally Finnish and translated from Finnish. A book like LotR or a RPG, popular as D&D that originates from a small European country, could you believe that?
>>94766150>>4766087So just learn english. Not exactly a hard task>Less chance for our people to produce an internationally distinguished author.Unironic skill issue.English sure wasn't Nabokov's first language.
>>94766150>A book like LotR or a RPG, popular as D&D that originates from a small European country, could you believe that?The Witcher
>>94766150Nihil novi sub sole. It's just a phase. In 11th century it used to be local language mixed with latin. In 15th local language mixed with French. In 19th mixed with German. Now English. Next it can be Hindi or Cantonese.
>>94766133The riddle of the sphinx is a game. Winning and losing is determined solely by what and how you answer. I believe TTRPGs are generally games of language, usually reactive problem-solving. Sometimes, in ideal conditions, it can evolve into a proactive(player-driven) pseudo-reality.This does not mean improv-theater is a game. It is a different activity altogether.
>>94766170Exception. Mainly popular due to a videogame. Nobody is paying for translating vidya either (to my knowledge). There isn't enough demand I believe and it's a shame.
>darths0004Jesus...
>>94766130>>94766150It's funny that we can come from such comparable backgrounds and end up on opposite sides with regards to English in RPGs. I think it helps that most Norwegians are fluent in English (but heavily accented) while a lot of Finnish people are not.Yes, mixing languages in the same sentence is very grating, and I hear it more and more. One of the reasons I still like using English to create an in-character and out of character language divide is that when we play we are surrounded by English books and English terminology, which makes it an easy mistake to slip in English words here and there. By just having a rule that what you say in English is in-character you force everyone at the table to be conscious of the words and language they are using. It is in a weird way a tool against anglification.Writers, artists, etc using English instead of their native language to reach a wider audience might cause the slow death of small languages, it's really sad. Le petit prince, interestingly was first published in both English and French by its French native author (because of ww2) and it's arguably the best selling fiction book of all time, so maybe there's a case for bilingual publishing instead of going English only. It seems to work for Fria Ligan rpgs for example.
>>94766213Convergence towards "the one language" is not a bad thing. Basic education that every Average Joe Jr. should receive would ideally provide broadest applicatin for least amount of effort. And ability to converse with every other person on the planet is very broad.However "the one laguage" being English is less than ideal, because English is mess of a language (ineviably so, given its historical evolution) but Esperanto got stangled in the crib, and Latin is too inflexible to go back to.Obviosuly there's also angle of language as element of national identity, and the whole nationalism vs globalism thing, but let's leave that can of worms closed for now.
>>94766087We don't care about you
>>94766087But that isn't what OP was talking about.
>>94766069Are we playing at the same table?
>je suis québécoisHonestly, English is an improvement.
Do you take polyglot amateur conlangers?
>>94766150>it smothers our native European storytelling.Are you actually saying Tolkien was not European?
>>94769335You're not a polyglot.
>>94766150English is the only language that matters.
>>94766087Languages don't have aesthetics and have no bearing on immersion.
>>94769405The hegemonic Anglosphere has been threatening the languages of European nations (other than Brits) culturally since 2. WW. Tolkien is popular world-wide not only thanks to his works, but thanks to Hollywood spreading English all over the world and other globalist phenomena. Yes, he is European. But native English speakers benefit from larger international audiences.I see it now why lots of countries dub everything on their TV. It's basic survival instinct.
>>94769509English is the only language that matters.
>>94769471>Languages don't have aestheticsWhat is poetry then and why it was the first form of literature man invented?
>>94769529Poetry isn't a language. Do you know what the word "language" means?
>>94769335Of all the tropes rooted in Tolkien's work conlangs have to be the worst.>>94769405Didn't Englabd quit Europe few years ago? they had referendum and all.
>>94769519Mother tongue is the only language that truly matters to a person in the end. It is the language of emotion and soul.
>>94769657No. English only.
>>94769462More than three qualifies you to be called one.>>94769543You don't like making names and cities sound like they fit in game?
>>94769748Thanks for agreeing that poetry isn't a language.
>>94769792Yeah, so you're not a polyglot. Like I said. Don't talk back to me.
>>94769462>>94769824this anon is jelly.
Close one.
>>94770040Nope, you haven't shown that languages have aesthetics, and poetry still isn't a language.
>>94770584>There are just so many thoughts and concepts I cannot phrase in Englishskill issue, but it happens even to native speakers
>>94761534>But language is everything.it's... an important part of communication, surebut what if he's doing a solo rpg? he doesn't need to communicate at all, then
>>94770603as a trilingual i can confirm that it's very possibly a language issue and not a skill issue, as some languages are just more convenient for clearly and easily communicating certain thoughts than others, sometimes it's as extreme as a simple three or four word sentence in one language requiring three paragraphs of disclaimers in anotherhowever the finn is an idiot if he thinks this problem doesn't go both ways
>>94770699Inability to express something concisely may be limitation of language, inability to express it at all is limitation of the speaker.
>>94770789i think you aren't thinking this whole thing through
>>94770845i meant both ways between different languages, thought a can be easy to turn into a sentence in one language but hard in the other while thought b is the other way around
>>94770899Read the post you are replying to.If you want to express a concept that is difficult to express with your range of vocabulary in english, you can use a loan word. Loan words are proper english. Not all languages have this privilege - we of the anglosphere aren't subject, say, to the whims of the French Academy, nor to Mao's language standardization efforts.If you can easily express idea A in language XYZ, you can easily express it in english.
>>94770442>Worda ond worca>Words and deeds>Not "Words and works."
>>94770803>>Ambiguity is antithesis of logic.>Citations needed,Motherfucking Aristotle, defining logos as separate from ethos and pathos.>Ripping parts of things away to reduce everything to Boolean madness is simply tasteless.Sure, nothing wrong with that, efficiency is boring.Pragmatically, there's room for ambiguity in everyday conversation, because we sometimes just don't know or can't be bothered to clarify precisely. But for any discussion about logic you need clear definitions to build upon.
>>94770928you're splitting hairs over official language and colloquial language, which is irrelevant, all languages use loan words, the problem is that loanwords need to be widely enough recognized before they become useful, so for example if i just answer "mu" to a stupid question, even though it's the best possible answer, almost nobody will understand it, and so the only recourse in normal colloquial english will be "your question is inapplicable, you either know so little about the subject you're asking about that you can't even ask a proper question, or else you're trolling, so please ask a different question"see that? went from a two-letter word to a paragraph
>>94766150Fuck off, /pol/fag.
>>94770957>normal colloquial english will be "your question is inapplicable, you either know so little about the subject you're asking about that you can't even ask a proper question, or else you're trolling, so please ask a different question"that exact response is given with infinitely more brevity every single day on /tg/.
>>94770987what, depends on the setting? that's a much more specific case, not all stupid questions are about a setting feature
>>94770957not what mu means.
>>94771003prove it
>>94770957Literally everyone ITT understood "mu".>you're splitting hairs over official language and colloquial language>which is irrelevantIt's not irrelevant and it's not splitting hairs. The living language is english. People are complaining that languages are syncretizing into english. That is the fundamental whine in this thread.>all languages use loan wordsNot really. If you have a formal standard then it isn't a loan word.>the problem is that loanwords need to be widely enough recognized before they become usefulPeople don't use loanwords that aren't useful. If a loanword is useful, people understand it. N.B. that that explanation of a usage of a word is possible in english, which has both the long and short forms of expression. Few languages can really explain the words that english takes from them, except by using those words and simply relying on cultural understanding.
>>94771007Sure. It means "to lack" or "without". It doesn't mean "your question is inapplicable", it doesn't mean "you know little about this subject", it doesn't mean "you're trolling.
>>94771028>It means "to lack" or "without". It doesn't mean "your question is inapplicable",those are the same thing >"you know little about this subject", it doesn't mean "you're trolling.you didn't even paraphrase this so the meaning from my post was preserved, i'm not surprised you're having trouble understanding it
>>94771045No they're not. "Lack" does not contain the word "question".Everything else I said was also correct.
>>94771098it obviously means the question is lacking if it's aimed at a question, you absolute brainleteverything else you said was mu
>>94771106No, it certainly does not, and that's not what you said. You said "inapplicable".Everything else I said was not mu. You lose.
>>94771120you weren't able to paraphrase my post in a way that preserved the meaning of what i said, thereby showing that you didn't understand it, so what you said in response to it had no chance of being either right or wrong
>>94771132I quoted exactly what you said, retard.
>>94771142no you didn't, the sentences you presented were different than they were originally, which means you paraphrased them, you didn't quote them
>>94771151No, they were exactly the same.
>>94761416>Asking as a philologist.I'm something of an expert myself. Your question has nothing to do with Phil.
You’re all arguing in English :^)
>>94771192the only people who would get owned by that don't understand you, the actual multilinguals are better off than a monolingual
>>94771208The people who don’t understand that wouldn’t be arguing in English.
>>94769543you're right. emperor xibalba of not-france ruling from the capital city of tlaloc in the state of schwarzwald is such a good background. get a hold of yourself.
