>fighters can outrun lightning bolts and block bullets with their swords>they still run normal speed otherwise in any other circumstance Where does the idea that casters are OP come from when martials are the ones who need to rape the speed of physics in order to win? They should be moving at the speed of light, but nooo- they only move that fast when they’re about to get hit. “Nuh uhh, you missed!”
>>94799350What setting?
>>94799350Sorry but you didn't specify the game/module so nobody has any idea what you are talking about and I think you just wanted to post that anime image.
>>94799350>OP is a retard with terminal D&D brainrot.You're not even worth an image calling you a faggot.
>>94799350>what is a sidestep
>>94799350The "idea that casters are OP" likely comes from the fact they can have so many spells in their kit that just say "no" to what are supposed to be challenges.But I say this under the assumption that you're referring to the specific system everyone else who regurgitates the stagnant ""martials" vs casters" talking points.
>>94799674>our worst troll feels the need to shitpost even in thread he admits is a shitpost threadYour brainrot can't be cured.
both of those classes are raping physics in that case, why focus on just one?
>>94800566>OP is assmad at getting called out for his shitty spam topic yet again.Lol.
>>94799350What system? If you're talking about D&D, a successful saving throw against a lightning bolt only allows you to reduce the damage, not avoid it entirely. >Where does the idea that casters are OP come from Probably from people who insist spellcasters need to be capable of throwing out instant-death lightning bolts at lightspeed as a basic ability. If you don't want to play a game where characters are dodging lightning and deflecting bullets, don't add lightning spells and guns to the game.
>>94799350>>94799479>>94799484Nah I totally get what OP means.I think they just literally mean in any circumstance where super-fast projectiles are in consideration.However, when it comes to, for example, DND, you could easily make it less of a "Fighter blocks your lightning bolt by moving super fast" as instead something like "Sensing danger, the fighter narrowly dodges your attack--it doesn't help that your aim was thrown off by your environment, better luck next time!" or even something as simple as "Your attack hit the strongest point in their armor, dealing virtually no damage." yknow?But yeah, I agree, it does look silly in games where there's literally an EXPLOSION on a character and they just continue their normal walking animation. Fortunately games like DND are only limited by the imagination of everyone at the table. So it's a pretty common issue but there are games that circumvent such situations thanks to their flexibility and creative possibilities.
>>94801238Damn lmao, beat me to the punch
>>94799350Have you tried not playing D&D? This really isn't a problem in games that don't ape D&D.Who am I kidding? Of course you haven't.
>>94800566>Our worst trollEither you need to look in a mirror, or you're admitting that you just argue without yourself in some attempt to gain reputation on an anonymous image board. In either case you're a massive faggot, much like OP (assuming your not also OP too... which would make alot sense given how retarded you both are).
>>94799350Answerings for all the retards bringing D&D up dismissively. Martials can't (meaningfully) rape physics in D&D, so I don't know where you got this idea. You're also harping on the limitations put on their abilities, as if you think the martials would exert nothing or that they're somehow capable of sprinting mach 5 non-stop.>TL;DRYour question answers itself, because D&D martials can't perform demigod like feats. Meanwhile spells give a fuckload of options beyond the grasp of magic illiterate dolts.
Hilarious thread OP>"Nuh uhh, you missed!"Martials are literal children playing in the sandbox lmao
>>94799905Try sidestepping a bullet once its fired retardLightning bolts move 10000x faster than thatAt best you can predict, which won't be ever
But if magic moves as fast as physics then nothing can stop them.
>>94804881>but if bullets move 2,000mph then nothing can stop them
>>94799350You're reaction time could be 99.99999...% the speed of light and that still wouldn't mean you physically move faster retard.
>>94804958Have that sort of reaction time would only help make predictions.
>>94805038Having*
>>94799350You know what. You’re right. Martials are the way bigger whiners than the casters.
>>94805038Eight and you don't need insane speed to avoid most things if you can predict where they're going to attack quick enough.
>>94799350Travel speed vs combat speed, powerscalelet
>>94805244Um, no, you absolutely cannot avoid certain things, if there’s not enough room to avoid it. There’s a limit to being able to predict.
>>94805244The ability to move your brain (predict) is still going to be a lot slower than the guy pulling a trigger. There’s also not a lot of predictive tells when it comes to guns. If you don’t see it, you’re not predicting it, either.
>>94799350This, but switch fighters with casters and swords with spells because OP is a faggot.
>>94805427Spells are actually meant to be out of the ordinary in comparison. Being magic.
>>94805278>There’s also not a lot of predictive tells when it comes to guns. Where's the barrel pointing genius and a notably fast person only moves about 60x slower than average bullet. So if you need to move your body one foot to not get hit by a bullet, you could reliably get out if the way of that bullet if you correctly predict where it's going so long as the shooter is ~61 feet away. If you only need to move an inch to prevent a graze or hitting a vital organ, you could "dodge" the bullet from even ~6 feet away. (These are only estimates and I recognize I'm not accounting for acceleration, this is just to give an idea)>>94805271I've never played any game where I was put into a situation where there is literally no room to dodge, but if a GM were to do that, I'd imagine they would just have me take the damage regardless of what the system says. (Also ignoring that there's other ways to avoid and attack beyond dodging, like using a shield or some other form of cover)
>>94805442Where the barrel is pointing won’t tell you when the gun is going to fire, especially if there’s no visible trigger mechanism.You appear to be high on anime fart gas.
>>94805459>Where the barrel is pointing won’t tell you when the gun is going to fireYou don't need to know when the gun is going to fire, you just need to know where the barrel is pointing, typically an enemy won't just point a gun at you in combat without the intention to shoot.
>>94805442Human chronometey from stimuli to reaction is roughly 250ms. A 9mm moves at roughly 1200fps depending on the load. For 9mm its 300 feet just to begin to move, double that to maybe move enough to clear the bullets path. 5.56 is 3200fps, 800 feet to react, 1600 to dodge.You can’t dodge a bullet. Let alone a sniper rifle.
>>94805468You’re not thinking correctly. Where the barrel is pointing won’t tell you if it will fire. It might not fire at all. It might just be being pointed. The actual fire has no tell. It’s quite a leap to assume you can tell if a human finger is about to pull the trigger too.
>>94805477>Human chronometey from stimuli to reaction is roughly 250ms.Unimportant, OP is complaining about a fighter being able to have insane reaction time but having a normal movement. Having the reaction time to be able to dodge a bullet is already part of the assumption.
>>94805506It’s very important. That you think it’s not just makes me want to stop talking to you.
>>94805488>It might not fire at all. It might just be being pointed. Okay so if you're fighting a guy and he points a gun at you, your thought process is "well I don't know that he's fired his gun yet, so I shouldn't try to dodge, so I'm just going to stand still"
>>94805510You're ignoring the premise of the discussion, your argument isn't valid. Using a baseline human reaction time when that's not what's being discussed is a non sequitor.
>>94805477Nta, to play devil's advocate, you can't dodge a bullet after it's been fired but a superhuman individual might be able to watch the gunman and predict his aim and when he is going to fire. Reacting to, for example, the sight of his hand tensing.
>>94805515You’re ignoring the power to think critically. Good bye.
>>94805511So you move like an idiot whenever anyone points their gun at you. Got it. Even if the gun is fucking empty. That’s called being paranoid.
>>94805523Anon are you illiterate? You haven't actually responded to the contents of any of my replies
>>94805519>you can't dodge a bullet after it's been fired but a superhuman individual might be able to watch the gunman and predict his aim and when he is going to fire. Still not good enough if there are no tells. You have to hope there’s a tell. If a gun is already raised/pointed, then there is no tell. If you’re being targeted by a sniper and you have no idea, you’re dead. There is no tell.
>>94805528Anyone who has ever been at a firing range will know you never point a gun at someone, even if it's unloaded. If you carelessly wave your gun at someone you can bet for sure they will yell at you. You absolutely don't want someone pointing a gun at you ever.
>>94805528Not ignoring a guy I'm currently fighting != avoiding guns in every situation all the time
>>94805534The old trope is that the sniper has a laser sight that gives him away
>>94805534>If a gun is already raised/pointed, then there is no tell. Then gun being raised/pointed is the tell you fucking moron. If someone points a gun at, especially in real life, you move out of the way even if the person isn't trying to kill you.
>>94805519>Reacting to, for example, the sight of his hand tensing.This is going to involve a lot of awkward paranoid mistakes. “Oh shit, your finger twitched, I thought you were going to fire”. “No I was just trying to be threatening. There are no bullets in this gun”. You may as well be declared a spaz.
>>94805537>Anyone who has ever been at a firing range will know you never point a gun at someone, even if it's unloadedSo cops never point their guns and yell “Freeze!”? Lol. You think people don’t point guns to intimidate?>>94805552Not good enough of a tell if there are no bullets in the gun. You just overreacted. There are no tells if you can’t actually see a finger pulling the trigger. If you see a lot of red lasers pointed at you, in typical sniper fashion, you ain’t dodging that lol.
>>94805553>You may as well be declared a spaz.Right because my number one concern when I'm in a situation where I can expect to be shot at is being thought of as a spaz.
>>94805568Anon, the point is, there are times when a gun’s firing cannot be predicted, especially if you cannot see the firer.
>>94805567>You just overreactedOkay? And? It's becoming glaringly obvious you've never been on a gun range btw.
>>94805581Being to a gun range is irrelevant in the face of the insurmountable physics. You ain’t dodging a bullet, sorry. Of course a double digit iq gun fag wouldn’t actually know about physics though. Nice one.
>>94805580>Anon, the point is, there are times when a gun’s firing cannot be predicted, especially if you cannot see the firer.Obviously you can't dodge an attack you can't even see anon that's not what's being discussed.
>>94805586Anon I don't even think you understand what's being talked about here. You know this is a thread on /tg/ right? Talking about how characters and games perform and not people irl right?
>>94805588That’s exactly what’s being discussed. In order to dodge a bullet you have to be the fucking Flash. Even if you’re face to face with the firer.
>>94805598So you agree with OP that physics has to be raped and slowed down in order for martial babies to survive shit that moves even faster than bullets. Got it. Thanks, I accept your concession.
>>94805600So you can't dodge a knife because someone can stab you in the back?
>>94805605You can dodge a knife because a human can’t swing past the speed of sound you fucking idiot. But yes, not seeing an attack is just going to kill you, and this is why wizards always win. Your head just explodes. You suddenly drop dead from a heart attack.
>>94805604Ignoring the fact that someone having unrealistic reaction time isn't "raping physics", OP's issue was that martial seem to only be able to move at the speed of light to avoid damage and move normally all other times despite the fact that reaction speed and how fast you move aren't the samething, the same mistake you make again by saying that martial "need to move faster than bullets" when that's not even what you and I were arguing about.
>>94805612But anon you can see the Attacker, so you can't dodge it. Unless you want to walk back your earlier argument, this what you're saying.
>>94805600>Be guy>Mafia comes and aims gun at you>"Adios hombre">see his hand tense>drop to the ground immediately and bite his ankles as the shot misses>he could only afford one bullet so you win the duelTypical safety training when dealing with a shooter goes that you never run in a straight line because he could lead the shot. You run in an unpredictable zigzag. It's not a matter of being a gigabrained alien and predicting the velocity of the bullet and outmaneuvering it, you just have to stay in motion in a manner he can't predict in order to dodge.
>>94805623>Ignoring the fact that someone having unrealistic reaction time isn't "raping physics"Nta, but yes it is. If you can outmaneuver bullets post-firing then you shouldn’t be visible to the naked eye.
>>94805640>You run in an unpredictable zigzagThis won’t save you from consecutive firings or machine guns. You dipshits act like bullets are fired every 2-3 seconds.
>n-no you can predict it!You really, really can’t
>>94804352>Try sidestepping a bullet once its fired retardI just did, now what?
>they think their reaction time can be at the speed of sound No you absolute fucking meat head what the hell is wrong with you. In most cases, the bullet is moving faster than the speed of sound. This means the bullet will have already hit you before you hear it fire. And even in the case of a subsonic bullet fired from distance, the millisecond warning you might get is not long enough to react. Dodging a bullet is impossible. Even if you can predict it.Are martial tards really this dumb?
Humans can’t move any body part at near the speed of sound. Say you were to pitch a baseball, at the speed of sound, the inertia of your skin and bones would just rip apart or better yet your arm will fly off your shoulder. Physics just won’t allow.Also I’m done with this thread. The IQ of this board is like 55 or something.
>>94799350Spider-Man can dodge lasers, that doesn't mean he can run at the speed of light. An Old West gunslinger can't run at the same speed he can draw.
>>94799479>>94799484>>94801238>what setting>game?>traditional games?This shit is never going to work.
>>94806125Nothing will work as long as jannies are hellbent on killing the board.
>>94801238the fact that OP hasn't replied to this tells me that casters are spending their spell slots on inventing problems to complain about that don't actually happen
Op is right and you’re all like kids playing pretend, “don’t touch the floor it’s lava!”, thinking lava is a loose liquid like red hot water
>>94807420this is explicitly a game of pretendmake an argument
>>94806669Even if OP wasn't a fag, games are only worth playing it there are viable countermeasures to threats. >The goblins have archers? Turn around, there's simply no way we can overcome such fortifications.
>>94805553Better a spaz than getting a d20 shot into your chest.
>>94803442Wow dick cat
It's because it's a GAME
>>94799350>abstract mechanics>conflicting fluff>muh realismFighters don't outrun lightning bolts, the spells and abilities you're referring to are just electric attacks. Pikachu isn't faster than light and neither is your boy.Even if that weren't true, top speed isn't the same as reflexes. Can a car dodge a bullet because its wheels spin quickly? Nor is speed in battle the same as either. Repositioning isn't like a dead run, there's a million tiny things that have to be taken into account or your ability to capitalize on the evolving conflict disappears.
>>94811680>magic lightning is slower than real lightning, because it just is okay!Actually kys martial baby >muh reflexes See >>94806064
>>94799350Okay, so we fix this by giving fighters a 1000m/s movement speed. /thread
>>94806020So you agree that it would potentially save you if it's just a single bullet, and so dodging a bullet by moving around in a way to avoid someone's aim is possible.You fags act like nobody with a gun has ever missed a moving target.
>>94813259>You fags act like nobody with a gun has ever missed a moving target.Because it’s not in their trajectory path. D’oh!
>>94815627Exactly, your trajectory was shit and I was better than it.
>>94799350it is physically impossible to cook on a stove topat a temperature equal to your IQ in any system of measurement
I raise you all thishttps://youtu.be/B2VDbqeHtA4?si=mHXsZIR5bNsn5q7M
>>94815666Well, no, if you’re in its path as its fired you WILL get hit.
>>94815666Point is you’re not dodging a bullet that’s already been fired. If you have to argue you can react before they pull the trigger, then you’ve already lost, as that will only get you so far.
>Play Diarrheas' and Diapers>It is shit>Refuse to play adult games>Complains about itIconic.We really fucking need /cuck/ - Bumpfags, Ecelebs, D&Drones and 40kiddies.
>>94799350Because that shit doesn't just happen, it require Qi and using Qi all the time would be akin to sprinting at full speed or using your full strength all the time for every action.
>>94818271Good thing I'm not in its path then.>>94818308Duh, if it's already been fired, you can't fire it at me again, and even if you did, it wouldn't hit me since I'm stronger than your trajectory.Gg retards. I keep winning and you keep missing
>>94819675>Good thing I'm not in its path then.Good luck with that lul
>>94819920Good luck on hitting me. I can outrun and overpower your trajectory all day.
>>94820529Retarded
>>94806125We know, is not like you nogames are able to provide an answer.
>>94806125Im sorry but outrunning lightning bolts and blocking bullets as a standard isnt the norm in games, not in d&d, not in star wars d6, not in call of cthulu, not in WFRPG.At best they are niche subclass shit, so you should treat them as such. 10th level fighters arent "fast as lighting" as default or something.>>94803434wtf are you on about with your fluff description?
>>94799350>Moving a short distance is done faster than moving ten times that amountShocking...GRASP!
>>94799350>fighters can outrun lightning bolts and block bullets with their swordsYou can literally dodge both of those things irl if you get the timing right.
>>94799350>fighters are good (as long as you run 20 fights a day because they don't have daily resources like hit points)
The "idea that casters are OP" likely comes from the fact they can have so many spells in their kit that just say "no" to what are supposed to be challenges.But I say this under the assumption that you're referring to the specific system everyone else who regurgitates the stagnant ""martials" vs casters" talking points.
>>94826576>so many spells in their kit that just say "no" to what are supposed to be challengeswhy are spells badly designed?
>>94823582Cringe
>>94826576The idea that casters are OP mostly comes from the fact that casters are OP.You'd know this if you'd ever played a game of 1e/2e/3e/5e where anyone ever did anything in even a day's worth of downtime, which I admit is the significant minority of tables, but is the category of all tables with competent players.
>>94826576No, it comes from the idea that physics is fucking ruthless as fuck, and giving some old man the ability to shoot bullets from their fingertips without any external (material) lead up is absurd and abusive as all hell.
>>94804958Is this trolling? Your body needs to move comparably fast to evade a projectile after its fired
>>94827260They’re taking their stupid a step further by assuming they can always predict when a finger is about to pull a trigger. Even if it’s a mile away.
Martials are literal babies lmfao
>>94827273Flat footed AC is a thing in most editions. But if you’re in a fight and can see someone pointing a gun at you then you have no reason to be standing still and waiting for them to fire.
>>94830560>But if you’re in a fight and can see someone pointing a gun at you then you have no reason to be standing still and waiting for them to fire.This is implying you can move before they pull the trigger. Or that you can know when they’ll fire at all. So you’ll just react like a spaz to variable success, reliant on the reaction time of the firer, which will be faster than your ability to move.
>>94831417Maybe, in order to abstract this complex interaction for the purposes of a game, there could be some sort of dice roll, taking into account one character's reactions to the other character's aim.You could potentially have the aiming character roll to see if they miss, or have the evading character roll to see if they save themselves from the worst of the damage. That seems like a pretty fair way to arbitrate it for a tabletop game, compared to >"nuh uh I dodged" >"nuh uh I hit you"
>>94833613Anon, we haven’t even gotten to multiple shooters yet.
>>94831417No, anon, it's implying that you shouldn't stand still outside cover in a firefight, not even when no one's shooting right at the moment.>>94834181Depending on the system, the number of defensive reactions you may take in a turn may be limited, and at the very least multiple shooters means multiple attack rolls which means the likelihood of at least one of them hitting increases. What's the problem, here, and did you have some point you wanted to make?
>>94799350>fighters can outrun lightning boltsAny class in D&D can make a save against a lightning bolt>and block bullets with their swordsAny class in D&D can theoretically have their AC beat a bullet because muskets are just ranged basic attacks.
