Personally i hate them as for me it always feels like the dm wants to feel smug about their oh-so-devious oc when in 99% of cases there hasn't been any buildup and suddenly good guy was EVIIIIIIL all along and the players have been essentially returned to zero.Also it just invalidates any progress the players actually make in their journey.
>>94806780I like misguided sub-villains. Villains who think they're doing the right thing because the bigger bad manipulated them. The sub-villain spends most of the campaign as the main villain until the players finally find out "oh it goes deeper!" 'Course, the campaign almost never lasts long enough to get to "deeper."My last campaign was Spelljammer in Astromundi. The Sun Mages very-much looked like the big bad. Of course, if it had gone long enough, the players would have discovered that the entire Antilan Empire was simply being manipulated by the Arcane, who have a deal to sell the entire crystal sphere to the Tinar'ri, who plan to blow up the sun and create a permanent portal on the Prime Material with a straight-shot into the Abyss. But a couple players flaked and we've switched games, now. It never got far enough for the big reveal.
Most twist villians tend to be hard to write up to make sure they actually work. Thankfully I've never had a DM run one, just one old DM had some pretty shit villains and characterised module villains to be as far removed from the original source as possible to its detriment
>>94806780probably too difficult to satisfyingly pull off for a lot of tables, though it depends on the personality of the group - there's probably some groups out there where everyone is in that magical venn diagram overlap between being willing to cut the DM a lot of slack, paying close attention to the story without thinking what the DM is planning, and just playing to have fun and not think too hard while staying engaged.twist villains are hard to pull off in books and movies when the author has complete control of the story, games are just way too much in the hands of the players (even with serious railroading) for even a well thought out build up and story to make it from start to reveal unscuffed. games also tend to take a long time to complete a narrative arc which gives players lots of intermissions to pick things apart and talk with each other about where they think the story is going
>>94806863If it's a topic I'm interested in, in a post on /tg/ on 4chan, I'll weigh in and converse with others interested in it.I don't care what OP any more than I care about you, anon. That's what posting on an anonymous board is all about. The person posting isn't relevant.
>>94806780"Dashing prince is actually evil" isn't even a twist, it hasn't been for hundreds of years.
Twist at my table is usually that their evil boss has betrayed the evil party, not that someone they thought was good was evil.When we play good campaigns the party rarely if ever cares what alignment people are anyway.
>>94806780When do you plan to make a real thread?
>>94806942>This thread>Conversing
>>94806956Bluebeard was written by Perrault, if I'm not mistaken.
Best with conspiracy-arch plots
>>94806780it requires a lot of work, but is memorable when done right.
>>94807123>>94807130
>>94806813fpbp
>>94806780The best villains are the ones that you know are straight evil, but your goals align until the very end. This dude helps you out and repay the favor a few times back and forth. You know he's up to no good, but ehh, you've got other things to worry about and he's chill with you. Extra bonus points if you don't have to fight him after all. You've been useful and a good asset so far, so why kill eachother when you could stay at his right hand?
>>94806976>Twist at my table is usually that their evil boss has betrayed the evil party???A twist would've been the evil boss not betraying the party.
>>94806780You know, I was actually rooting for the prince to be an actual good guy and not a secret last act villain. The movie even lies to the audience, having him act good when no one's watching him.
>>94806780They can work, but you still need to follow all the rules of a good plot twist.
The players deciding to become twist heros is more interesting than there being a twist villain.>Case in point:
>>94806780As far as my games go, they don't fit in.There really isn't any sort of narrative, literature or film trope bullshit that fits into my games, come to think of it.
