So, I'm a big fan of settings andnstories without villans.The best way I was able to implement this on Tabletop RPGs is via factions.The cknflict is not heros X Villains but between many different groups all seeking power.Bonus points is to give the power TO THE PLAYERS and make them major political figures.So far I came up with:-Nobles, want to keep status-co.-Merchants: Want to take power and influence from nobles, reduce the value from services and raise the value of products.-Guilds: want to rise the value of services and reduce the value of products.-Church: Reduces the influence of other temples.-Temples: Reduce the influence of the church and keep the tradition of the old gods.-Anti magic faction: End magic and kill magic users. -Mages guild: Keep magic safe and controled.-Hermit mages: Keep magic out of reach and be left alone.-Mage lords: Use magic to rule others.-Crime lords:Keep the status co.-Thief's guild:Organize crime into one big crimw family. -Guardsman: Stop crime.-Order of reason: Educate masses and prevent new knowledge. -Gentlemen's club: Hoard knowledge. -Scientists: Explore and discover new things.-Shamans: Portect nature.-Idustrials: Machines, revolutions and guns.-Revolutionaries: Change.-Illuminaty: Control things from behind the scenes.-Anti tecnology faction: Destroy new tec.-Tecnology hater faction: Destroy new AND old tec.Any ideias of cool factions I could use?
>Illuminaty: Control things from behind the scenes.Why would you introduce all these factions with their own goals and then introduce one secret faction which is the actual source of all influence, which to wield any power would necessarily have to manipulate the goals of all factions to appear independent but really be serving one secret goal?That's the Illuminati. Those in the know are infiltrating the other factions to twist them to serve the Illuminati, and those who aren't in the know are being made to unwittingly serve those in the know. So the whole faction interplay is theater, because it's all serving one goal while giving the illusion of serving many.
>>94810716My plan is that the illuminati would be a shadow of the former self. They would be just old farts high on past glory with very little actual power. It would be up for the players to revitalize this faction or create a new inner circle from the grouns up. If they want.As it stands they are no longer a major player.
>>94810682Forgot:Foreign empire: Colonize the land and anex it to their territory. Empire tenple:Spread the pax imperium fiath and empire propaganda.Roayals: Keep the empire out and oreserve their power and traditions.
>>94810682Some of these are alright but others feel a bit nebulous, shallow, or just out of place.This isn't intended to be insulting, I'm well aware that higher concepts like this aren't really entirely capable of capturing the nuance and interest of this kind of thing.Which I guess is kind of my problem. There isn't really much help that can be given besides throwing out vague faction ideas that are relatively meaningless without any greater context for who these people are, what their world is like, and why they're doing what they're doing.
>>94810682That's very cool but your average player can barely track 2 factions and you're gonna snipe them with twenty...
>>94810876>Some of these are alright but others feel a bit nebulous, shallow, or just out of place.Can you give me some exemples?>>94810876>without any greater context for who these people are, what their world is like, and why they're doing what they're doing.I was afraid of lore dumping and people not feeling like reading all that. But I guess I can give more context later on.
>>94810986I mean they are going to be the focus of the game.And the ideia is not that theybwill join factions. More like favour some and by doing thatbalienate others.
>>94810876Agreed.OP, have you ever played 'King in the Castle's? It's an online party game.It's very much a game without true villains, just three influential factions and the Monarchy vying against one another for control.I bring it up because it taught me a very important lesson for my table: the average player or group can *maybe* get their heads around and invest in 3 factions (excluding themselves / their faction). Anything more and they tend to either get bored, confused, or forget shit.So my recommendation would be to pick a max of 4 factions (including whoever the party is supporting) and really flesh those out. The remainder go in the 'neat background info' category and you make peace with the fact most players will never give a shit about them.
>>94811019Fair.But I'm not arguing to use all of these.Just seeking inspiration and ideas for new and interesting factions.
>>94811092What sort of setting are you running? What sort of adventure?You want to pick factions that make sense for these aspects, rather than picking the factions first then figuring the rest out.
>>94811002Quickly off the top of my head.>Noblesshould be focused on as smaller groups or divided by influence.>Anti-magic factionShould be aiming for control and oversight rather than genocide, especially outwardly. It means much better PR, especially if magic can do things that help common people or nobility.>Hermit MagesWhy is this a faction, how are they organized, do they really have a unified goal? Not saying it's impossible but this group seems too individualistic to be a "faction".>Crime Lords, Thief's Guild, GuardsmenConsider focusing on the trichotomy of law enforcement, organized crime, and unorganized crime, rather than trying to work with what appears to be two separate organized crime groups. As I'm assuming if they're crime "lords" they already have a gang underneath them and that's exactly what a thief's guild is.>Order of Reason, Gentleman's ClubI'll need explanations for these two but on the surface their goals sound kind of stupid. Why and how are they "preventing new knowledge" and "hoarding knowledge" respectively.>Scientists, Shamans, Industrials, RevolutionariesWho, how, why? Too nebulous you can have groups that have these as goals but they need something that actually ties them together beyond a title.>Anti-Tech, Tech HaterGonna need a pretty good explanation as to why there are enough primitivists in your presumably fantasy medieval/renaissance setting to make a full faction. Actual primitive cultures sure, but actual primitives don't usually shun new technologies and ideas. Especially the ones that want power and influence.Just some stuff that I thought of while looking through the list. I'd like to make clear that I'm not trying to be an asshole. Just trying to encourage critical thinking.>>94811019Also echoing this anon's sentiment in an RPG most of the time less is more. I'd say 4 to 9 at the absolute most. Splitting them up geographically when you have more than 5.
>>94810682I think you should simplify your list down into fewer factions by combining some of them. For instance, I would combine the church and the anti-magic faction, and then I would get rid of the temple faction and have each of the mage factions be associated with different types of temples- I would also reduce the mage factions to two, so we will have the Temple mages and the Hermit mages, with the former being organized in temples, keeping magic safe/accessible while working for their own power, and the latter are more similar to occultism. Crime lords and thieve’s guild can be simplified down into just a criminal faction. Guardsmen shouldn’t be their own faction- anti-criminality should be a major part of the motivations for the nobles, merchants, etc. whose power is threatened by crime. Order of reason/Gentlemen’s club/scientists should be a single reason-oriented faction, or (since you want to have struggle over education) leave the fight over education to the religious/magical factions. Shamans should be wrapped up in the hermit mages and/or be isolated religious orders that are part of the church faction. Industrials is just economic productivity- that’s already covered by merchants and guilds, so it can be ditched. Revolutionaries should be ditched- any change should be covered by one of the above factions which want something and are willing to overthrow the state, not just a faction that “wants change”. Illuminaty shouldn’t be a thing, neither do tech/anti-tech since those don’t contribute anything new that integrates well with everything. This leaves us with the Nobility, Merchants, Guilds, Church, Temple mages, Hermit mages, and Criminals. 7 is a much more manageable number for gameplay.
>>94810682>Gentlemen's club"I've been in here for the past two hours and there hasn't been a single stripper, fuck this place. Grab some tiny sandwiches, we're gone. "
>>94810682>status coLMAO WHAT A FUCKIN ASSHOLEActually kill self
Ok, so I guess I can talk a little about the setting.It's called Nameless. It's a magic fearing and tecnology hating post post colapse setting.It has in it's record history 3 great empires with similar sounding names, so I hope it doesn't get confusing.First empire: -A great nation of powerful magic users, warriors and scientists who took over the entire world and slaved everyone. They were able to reshape nature and created huge naturalistic brutalist structures that are now in ruins. -They slaved everyone using true name magic, that's why the setting is called nameless, since namess are taboo.-They seem to have done the impossible and fused magic and tecnology, two things in this setting that just don't mix well at all. How they di it? Nobody knkws and nobody was able tk replicate ever since.-One day they just all collectively vanish. Leaving nehind their ruins, mysterious high tec and wondrous artifacts.Old empire: -A nation of former First empire slaves.-Unlike nost people on the planet they saw no issue with their former masters ways and tried tk replicate it.-Conquered almost all NOT-EUROPE continent. -Created a philosophy that magic is what destroyed their former masters.-Focused on strategy and military migth.-Defeated by a coalition of three magic focused nation called THE IRON TRIANGLE.-Their fall lead to the dark ages.-New empire:-Old enpire simps.-Focus on expansionism.-Magic haters.Apart from the new empire most other nations are samll to medium city states focused on one fortified city per kingdom andnthe rural area around it.After the fall of the iron triangle most hate magic and magic users and are fearful of it.The narrative is that First empire tecnology is dangerous and should be left alone, the exploration of ruins is outlawed and the stealling, colection, commercialization and smuggling of first empire artifacts is one of the highest crime someone can commit.
>>94812045Very helpful. What part will be relevant to your players?IE - what parts will the table actually interact with?Are they randos from a city state? Nomads? New Imperials? Context is key for this shit.Think of Mad Max Fury Road - even in that little micro-society you had:>Immortan Joe (WaterMonger)>The Bullet Farm>The Petrol Baron>The Hippie Sisters>Joe's Wives and disgruntled peeps>Joe's WarboysBut none of these factions would matter if we drove a few hundred miles east.The key question is what sort of places and people your players will interact with. That'll tell you which factions will be important to gameplay.
>>94812045Magic:Magic is extremely powerful and also extremely dangerous.It's often invisible but to trained eyw or in high quantity it manifests as a colerful hue, similiae to an oil spill.Magic comes from chaos. Some same it IS chaos. Pure chaotic energy longing to be shaped and take form. It's nothing and everything at the same time.So to cast a spell is tk use the force of will to leak chaos into the world, and use your will to shape it, give it form. And chaos can be anything.But it's also unstable and higly mutagenic and corruptable.Anyone can become a magic user in theory, but more often than not ONE SPECIFIC type of person does.The weirdo. The outcast. The outsider.It seems a magic user first spell manifests in the intersection of obsession and trauma.For exemple a fire mage is often born when someone who is obssed with flames is pushed to the brink, be it physically or emotionally to the point it suffers a Gnosis/delusion where fire answers a fundamental question of his life/universe and his will and emotions mixed with this warped view of reality manifests in a spell.And there is little magic CAN'T do.But there a few rules/limitations.-Magic is unable to produce permanent effects, under normal circustances.-No spell works exactly the same evrytime, with small or bug differences depending on how much energy the magic user has and their emotional state. -Magic seems to have a will of it's own and it see.s to seek subversion of the natural laws and physics, it seesm tk hate tecnology beacuse of it sonce tec is the use of natural laws in favor of the user, so tecnology, even rudimentary ones such as a wheel will stop working around magic.-Too much magic WILL chage the user and those around it.
>>94812114Because of how unstable and dangerous magic is hating on it has become a very effective political scapegoat.Hence why so many factions hate on it and that's aldo how the new empire is gaining influence. Magic society:Because if how powerful and dangerous magic is, magical culture has solidified into 3 big clusters.-Magic guild: All about control of magic and good pr with the common folk.-Magic hermits: All about isolation, master and apprentice deals and tradiyions with commkn folk.-Mage lords: All about complete power, blood magic and the subjugation of commkn folks.Mind you mkst city states are just returing from an era whete they were either slaved by magical means or in war with magical nations.So the avarage joe feelings towards magic is fear at best and hatred at worst.
>>94811238>should be focused on as smaller groups or divided by influence.They are divided in houses who hate each other but kind of see themslves as having to unite... Or lose influence to the merchants.>>94811238>Should be aiming for control and oversight rather than genocide, especially outwardly. It means much better PR, especially if magic can do things that help common people or nobility.As I described abive magic is outright hated in this setting and it's very dangerous and not safe at all.So hating on it is a very popular political move.>>94811238>Why is this a faction, how are they organized, do they really have a unified goal? Not saying it's impossible but this group seems too individualistic to be a "faction".Magic culture. They have different views from other froups on how magic users should behave.>>94811238>separate organized crime groups. As I'm assuming if they're crime "lords" they already have a gang underneath them and that's exactly what a thief's guild is.I want the underworld of crime to be as complex and with it's own issues as the normal world.So crime had it families with each crime "area" well divided among themslves, and they would unite againts any new upstart... Now they have to deal with this guild who plans to unite all crime into one organization and may be allied with the new empire.
>>94811238>I'll need explanations for these two but on the surface their goals sound kind of stupid. Why and how are they "preventing new knowledge" and "hoarding knowledge" respectively.So yeah this setting is also very afraid of tecnology. The rhetoric of "Tecnology lead to the fall of the first empire" made the entire place stagnant for generations.The order of the reason are the only ones who jave acess to first empire tecnology and lore, and they believe any tecnology advancement that is not like the first empire is pointless and they can't reverse engineer any of their super advanced tec so they just sit around and act as the smartest people all around.And the GC are people who want to explore and dive deep into ruins and find new artifacts an anomalies, but it's not allowed.>>94811238>Gonna need a pretty good explanation as to why there are enough primitivists in your presumably fantasy medieval/renaissance setting to make a full faction. Actual primitive cultures sure, but actual primitives don't usually shun new technologies and ideas. Especially the ones that want power and influence.>Just some stuff that I thought of while looking through the list. I'd like to make clear that I'm not trying to be an asshole. Just trying to encourage critical thinking.Hating and fearing tecnology is a big theme of the setting.
>>94811396>For instance, I would combine the church and the anti-magic faction, and then I would get rid of the temple faction and have each of the mage factions be associated with different types of temples- I would also reduce the mage factions to two, so we will have the Temple mages and the Hermit mages, with the former being organized in temples, keeping magic safe/accessible while working for their own power, and the latter are more similar to occultism.Nha I want to avoid the CHURCH HATES MAGE trooe. The inquisition will be 100% secular in here LOL.>>94811396>Guardsmen shouldn’t be their own faction- anti-criminality should be a major part of the motivations for the nobles, merchants, etc. whose power is threatened by crime.That's a good point. But some nobles and merchants profit from crime and otgers are secretly crime lords themslves.>>94811396>Crime lords and thieve’s guild can be simplified down into just a criminal factionThat would simplify the underworld too much, no?>>94811396>Order of reason/Gentlemen’s club/scientists should be a single reason-oriented faction, or (since you want to have struggle over education) leave the fight over education to the religious/magical factions.But they all have different views on what to do with tecnology. And religion is not anti-intelectualism in this setting.>>94811396>Revolutionaries should be ditched- any change should be covered by one of the above factions which want something and are willing to overthrow the state, not just a faction that “wants change”That's actually a good point, noted.
>>94810682Jannies: they supposedly keep order and remove trash. Never seen, never documented.
>>94811445LOL it's not that type of club. It's more like at one time expeditions to first enpire ruins was a common thing and Gentlemen (AKA what mainstream fantasy call ADVENTURES) was a career path and some even made huge fortunes. But now that it's outlawed many do it illegally while the retired adventures meet up in these clubs to talk about past glories.
>>94812259>the inquisition will be 100% secular Then you should decide what group in your setting dislikes magic/has something to lose from it, and add anti-magic sentiments to them. For instance, maybe it is the guilds of tradesmen who dislike magic because it could displace their jobs, or nobles because it allows people to base power on magic, rather than land/labor, which is their source of power.>some nobles and merchants profit from crime and others are secretly crime lords themselvesYes, but this isn’t explaining why guards should be their own faction- the guards are only going to be working for the people who hire them, which will likely be the anti-crime nobles and merchants. Nobles and merchants involved in crime would be a part of the criminal faction>That would simplify the underworld too muchNo, it wouldn’t be too much. Unless you are planning on dividing up merchants and guilds by the companies they work for, and the nobles by family and house, criminals are not forming large ideological groups to compete with themselves in the separate sphere of a criminal underground- they are simply the people willing to disregard the law in the pursuit of wealth/power. Their interests are generally going to be the same, and they will be doing the same thing. They can easily be combined.>but they all have different views on what to do with technologyLet the opinions on technology be organic to the other groups, you don’t need to make every possible opinion a separate faction- let each faction have multiple interests. Say the “gentlemen’s club” of secretly hoarding knowledge- don’t make it a separate faction, make that the nobles’ opinion on it. The order of reason, educating the masses but controlling the knowledge, that is a perfect role for the church and/or mage guild temples. Creating new tech/industrialism can be the sphere of merchants, and the Luddism could be the hermit mages. Guilds could go either way pro or anti-tech
>>94812259My main point is that while you can and should keep coming up with new opinions and beliefs, you should keep the number of different factions small, and instead have them hold multiple beliefs. This also sets them up to have alliances of convenience with each other to get what they want, only for those alliances and coalitions to break down after they win, and can’t agree what to do next, resulting in a new realignment of the players into new alliances.
>>94812202>>94812227This is why information is key had I known it was a post apocalypse magitek setting I would have different thoughts.Anyway besides that point realistically you're going to need to do some thinking on specifics rather than just trying to broad strokes it. For example as >>94812096 said it matters heavily where your players are going to be and where they're going.Having all of these different factions going on in the background is "realistic" but it's ultimately unhelpful. Try to figure out where their bases of power and supporters are at. Then from there you can use which factions are needed at the time. Also to reiterate consider trimming some of the fat for simplicity sake. It's fine to leave some things as just background details for the setting not everything needs to be fleshed out and player facing.
>>94811504Errr... Ok?I had no ideia that was a trigger wprd for you, sorry.
>>94812096The first campain they were all magic users from the guild teying to prevent a secular new enoire inquisition from getting in the city. Most of them died and now it's a diverse group who are the "elders" of a city state.Epder is just a title for leader.And now they have to deal with mnay factions while maintaining control and stability.
>>94812565>Then you should decide what group in your setting dislikes magic/has something to lose from it, and add anti-magic sentiments to them. For instance, maybe it is the guilds of tradesmen who dislike magic because it could displace their jobs, or nobles because it allows people to base power on magic, rather than land/labor, which is their source of power.Everybpdy kind of hates magic. The anti magic faction is just a group who out rigths hunt them for political gain.
>>94812593>My main point is that while you can and should keep coming up with new opinions and beliefs, you should keep the number of different factions smallInteresting, like having divsion on one single faction to make it more realistic.
>>94812680>Also to reiterate consider trimming some of the fat for simplicity sakeKay' seems to be the consensus >>94812680>It's fine to leave some things as just background details for the setting not everything needs to be fleshed out and player facing.I know that. I'm jjst lore dumping to help you guys get context but I don't do that to players.
>>94810682Give players their own factions seperate from their player characters.
>>94813425I don't know if thatvworks since factipns in this sense come as the bringers of conflict. Something antagonists do in other trpg.If players make their own gactions it would bring no conflict.
>>94810682try these, the conflicts can arise easily once you consider each faction's focus, needs and surpluses.
>>94814197You don't see how the pcs faction goals might being them into conflict with other factions?
