What does /tg/ think about the 2024 rules adding firearms to the PHB? Seem rather underpowered to me for something that should be gamebreaking.
>>94824720What setting or lore?
It's not tied to any setting or lore, so it's really up to DM how/if to use it.
>>94824720Why should it be gamebreaking? What makes guns significant is not that they're immensely destructive, it's that it's that you can slap a gun in the hands of a peasant and make an effective soldier in an hour of training. But D&D is a game of fantasy super heroes.
>>94824720Early firearms were really not that impressive when compared to crossbows and longbows. Slightly higher damage die in exchange for a few hundred gold is perfectly fine in 5e's framework.>something that should be gamebreakingIf they were gamebreaking you'd be complaining that they added overpowered firearms to the PHB.
>>94824720>Seem rather underpowered to me for something that should be gamebreaking.for anyone with only a single attack, then the musket is the best weapon you can use since it has a 1D12 damage die>>94824889guns only need minimal training for you to be able to handle, but the discipline needed to do a rather long, multi-step, process in the middle of combat is actually quite hardearly firearm units were well paid, highly trained, specialists who were quite valuable since they were also the ones who had to produce and mix their own gunpowder
>>94824720I mean, just like in real life, if I recall, the benefit with guns is largely that they're fairly simple to learn to operate, it's why bows are martial weapons and I think light crossbows and these guns are just simple weapons. They feel a lot stronger when the players hire like one or two hirelings each, equip their own muskets and equip the hirelings with muskets and try alpha-burst blasting mobs, whatever lives gets the caster's fireball, then onto the next encounter.That said, as a DM, my own houserule is that you can buy two-shot rifles and four shot pepperbox pistols.
>>94824720Overdue, and not underpowered.
>>94824926>for anyone with only a single attack, then the musket is the best weapon you can use since it has a 1D12 damage dieYou'd need to get a feat or multiclass to use it as a Rogue who would get the best milage out of them, but also not really cause you could just use two Hand Crossbows for two attacks. Clerics and Druids could use them, but why would they over cantrips?
>>94824720Fuck off, retard. Your misuse of thread subjects still marks your no-effort baitposting. Firearms have been in the PHB for a lot longer than 5.24e
how does 5.5e stack up to 5e?
>>94824981trades flavor for balance, mostlydelivers the same core experiencewarriors get a bit more interesting in combat, thoughsince weapon mastery gives you an extra combat optionbut a buff is a buff
>>94824902>Early firearms were really not that impressive when compared to crossbows and longbows. Slightly higher damage die in exchange for a few hundred gold is perfectly fine in 5e's framework.It's a musket and a flintlock pistol, not really "early". A hand-cannon would be early and would be accurate being crap.>If they were gamebreaking you'd be complaining that they added overpowered firearms to the PHB.Yes, I admit it. Truth is I think there's no room for firearms in D&D.
>>94824961
>>94825028>Truth is I think there's no room for firearms in D&D.its a heavy crossbow with a bigger damage dienot exactly out of place
>>94824720I don't think they're all that good either. No Gunner feat means the only way you can really get use out of these is if you're a class that doesn't get Extra Attack and has proficiency in them (Protector Cleric or Warden Druid) or you have to burn a General Feat or multiclass so you could use them then? But they're also so expensive- the Pistol is 250 GP its so expensive that you cannot afford it at level 1 no matter your class and background. A Musket is 500 GP, that's the cost of like 10 Heavy Crossbows, you could craft two Uncommon Magic Weapons (Uncommon Weapons are 200 GP + Base Weapon Price) for that price. If you want to use them as a Fighter or Ranger aka the people with Extra Attack you'd have to swap them each attack which could work but would be frustrating when you have a magical one that you want to primarily use. Not to mention- Crossbow Expert still exists and is generally better to use, you could use a Shield and x2 Hand Crossbows now and still get that Bonus Action attack. Heavy Crossbows are pretty strong now too! They can get the bonus damage from Great Weapon Master (Thus out damaging the Musket) and have the Push Mastery and unlike the Musket has a bigger range.
>>94825028D&D has sail ships, rapiers and full plate, which are renaissance technology and well into the era of common use of firearms. That said, I got my group into playing something else, so i don't actually care what 5.5 does.
>>94825105Proffesional soldiering weapons (such as crossbows and firearms) being basically useless for the profesional soldier (martial) classes is actually pretty funny.
>>94825124Crossbows are quite strong on the martial classes honestly, its just the Firearms suck. A Fighter with a Heavy Crossbow + Crossbow Expert + Great Weapon Master is pushing out some high damage and can have a backup double Hand Crossbow + Shield deal when they want they extra defense and extra shot. That's pretty good imo.
>>94825028>It's a musket and a flintlock pistol, not really "early". They could have called it an arquebus, but you're expecting the average 5e player to know what that is and how it meaningfully differs from a musket. At that point we're into a 'Plate Mail' level of complaint where the simplest answer is simply to rename it to something more historically accurate.
>>94824720Anon gun wasn't gamebreaking. What changed was more power to state, nobility having lesser influence and professional armies made from pesants instead of aristocrats. Previously you had some aristocrats in top tier equipment bringing some levy peons, or if he really rich then trained soldiers/mercs.After end of feudalism, you had entire army of trained pesants armed with decent enough equipment and some aristocrat leading them, because now state could afford training and arming them instead of relying on noble to suit up and bring some company because his family was given land.If you want gamechanger then it were cannons, shit that could devastate walls and kill entire units of soldiers.Still firearms weren't big change, societal and economic changes that allowed to field much bigger armies were.
I will never run 5.5 but assuming not much has changed regarding them, in my current 5e campaign I allowed firearms, they have rather shitty range and there's two other balancing factors which seem to be forgotten about a lot: they're useless underwater and even in intense rain (I tend to ignore the rain part but to offset that I commonly have underwater fights), and they are INCREDIBLY LOUD. Regular combat doesn't compare when it comes to volume, but firing just a single shot equals announcing to everyone in the area that you and your gun are here.Of course I don't allow artificer's repeating shot with shield bullshit, you want extra attack with a ranged non-thrown weapon you must have a free hand period.
>>94824720>D&DI'd rather just play a better game than trying to "fix" a game that doesn't do what I want.
>>94826116>they're useless underwaterCan't the same be said about bows, crossbows, throwing weapons, fireballs and bascially all other weapons? Rain is known to fuck string up. And good luck using sword under water
>>94824720>the medieval capeshit coffeehouse simulator treats guns like crossbowsH___ Y__ T____ N__ P______ D_D?
>>94826168On the contrary in 5e crossbows and javelins actually have a god's given blessing to attack underwater without disadvantage. The water probably doesn't do much good to the strings in the long run but that's handled by the off screen maintenance surely. Fireballs still deal half damage (submerged creatures get resistance to fire). Musket simply doesn't shoot, it becomes a very expensive club and it still sucks at being that because only specific pointy melee weapons don't get disadvantage underwater (if you lack swim speed).And in reality the musket would still be useless after you leave the water due to waterlogged gunpowder but I've never been cruel enough to enforce it.
>>94824720From what I just checked, the pistol seems really powerful. >1d10 piercing damage>one-handed>advantage on consecutive shots w/ Firearm MasteryThat's just an overall upgrade to the sling. You can use it together with a shield.The musket is shit though, not even the Firearm Mastery feat's bonus makes it worth it. Personally I'd make it deal 1d20 but maybe thats too much considering the existence of feats like Piercer
>>94825105I like that art anon, I think it looks cool.
>>94825105Honorable mention to the Nick Mastery:>Mastery: Nick. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.Unlike all other Mastery properties you can use this even if you're not using the exact weapon that has this property. So you can perform the Light Property Attack/Two-Weapon Fighting Attack with two Hand Crossbows only using your Action instead of Action and Bonus Action. This is really useful for Rogues, Rangers, even Fighters.
>>94826197Water fucks string in real time, you lose most of power when it gets wet.I forgot it's D&D we're talking about so it operate on limited game designers knowledge, not what would happen.Doing anything under water is major pain in the ass.
>>94826260Me too, not enough Crossbow + Shield art out there. Though I guess this was because its not a very common combat style. 5e only had Artificers and Thri-Kreen that could do it, now with 5.24e everyone can.
>>94826275That's interesting to know, so far I only considered the water resistance. I doubt I'm gonna houserule about it in dnd but the knowledge will come in handy in other games.
>>94824720>PHBInto the trash it goes. Whatever is in the PHB is automatically assumed to be the default by the players.
>>94824720I'm indifferent.I'll continue to work on my own games and not spend a single penny on D&D or its peripherals, and not touch any of its material.But I can't speak for the mindless droves of pigs who have to latch onto D&D slop, nor for the lone crusader patrolling the board who will no doubt cry "worst troll" because I expressed intent to not use D&D and spoke badly of its user base.
Isn't the default setting now Greyhawk? If i remember correctly the chemical reaction needed for black powder is impossible on Oerth (that's why Murlynd had to use a couple of magic wands fashioned as guns). As usual the philistines at hasbro don't know shit about what the fuck they're doing, i will keep assuming everything past wotc acquisition of tsr is fanfiction.
>>94826834I'm half certain the setting is still Points of Light from 4e, but disguised as not being points of light due to it being unpopular. The combination of subraces and races in the core rules don't exist in any of the official settings, for example.
>>94824720My personal rules Ive been using for a long time:2d6 pisol2d8 musket2d12 wall gunTakes 2 actions to reload, 1 with a specialty feat.Makes them functionally very different from other ranged weapons. a lot of frontloaded damage, but takes a long time to use the same piece again. for most encounters its essentially a one use weapon unless you have multiple or have a squire reloading for you.
>>94824720They shouldn't be game-breaking, but a good source of early mid-game burst damage for an opening exchange. 1d20 smack-down that you probably won't get a second chance to reload over the course of an engagement.
>>94824720If you wanted anything more than a super crossbow, you can go fuck yourself.
>>94829964then dont make them like crossbows...dumbass
>>94829732>takes 2 full acti...ignored
>>94824981It tells you to rewrite what you don't like, which is something wholly unique to the latest edition of the greatest TTRPG in the world.
>>948247205e is shit for trying to make a modern setting, don't force it, play something better like Shadow of the Demon Lord.
>>94829732Why make the guns worse than they already are? They're already just worse Crossbows since they lack feat support and the mechanics of the game make dual wielding two hand crossbows better than using a Musket or Pistol.
>Firearms in 5eNeat.
>>94830397>takes 2 full acti...Think if it more like a single use item that (essentially) regens between combats.>>948310282d6 damage is better then 1d10 damage in a single round. drawback is that you arent going to continue that rate. You werent ment to effectively reload in most situations and instead switch to another weapon.Also forgot to mention +2 to hit in range -2 to hit out of range. To illustrate armor penetration, relative ease of hitting targets in range compared to other weapons, and non rifling and veering off course out of range.pistols 40 ftmuskets 70 feet.
>>94830385Fuck off. /k/tards just want them to be wands of disintegration, and they can eat shit.
