Challenge editionPrevious thread: >>96473861>Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Thread Question:What's your preferred gambit?
>>96484125>Thread Question:>What's your preferred gambit?I am Alpharius.
Tell me, why shouldn't I make a knight army of just 5 knight atrapos
>>96484183>Tell me, why shouldn't I make a knight army of just 5 knight atraposYou like getting games?
So going with the "brutes boosted by cybertheurgists" idea form last thread, which of the daemon command choices would you say fit best? Hierarch is a melee beatstick, but Harbinger has a totem. I think we can ignore the harbinger's special rule, unless you really want to deep strike those brutes. But the totem alone might make it worth it. And how do you feel about the dominions? Malevolent artifice fits thematically but it's dogshit, so I'm thinking nurgle to make them unkillable. Aflame looks like a meme
>>96484183Because the atrapos is lame. Use something more interesting.
>Finally finish planning out my army>Start building and painting>Suddenly I want to get some Solar Aux alliesGod damn it. I'll get some for alternative list options I guess.
>>96484183Because your dick would fall off from having too much sex, and it gets hard to make tactical decisions with someone glued to your dick 24/7
>>96484160It's so weird that it is both shitposting and a legit actual answer now
>>96484208Go nurgle.Bring a unit of nurglings.The problem with the hierarch is why aren't you spending an extra 100pts to be a sovereign?Harbinger as your default command is fine, you want your brutes to regularly be line 2 or 3 and that's much easier at wp9. Also consider corblax to lead the 2nd unit of brutes.
>>96484183>fleshcel >not titancelCome on anon, you had one job, it's called MACROextinction for a reason Although honestly, now that I think about it, I know mechanicum like making Astartes look retarded with their cries of "oh, how could I ever dream of fighting my brother" while the magos is penning the dreadnought raper 9000, but even I feel it's a little weird that they have a knight chassis designed to kill their own god machines before the heresy.
>>96484248>their ownTitans and titan analogues in general.
>>96484246I was thinking of them as an allied detachment, meaning no high command slots, and one of the brute squads will have a mech character attached for shenanigans. Why nurglings?
>>96484213based
>>96484183Atrapos is peak knight and my fav, but I wouldn't do more than one. If it's yours too, one special one is more fulfilling than spamming. Unless you want 5 because "stronk", then you'll never go through with it anyway.
>>96484248He's saying a regular infantry is saying something so disagreeable, the knight pilot is willing to use Macro protocols overkill against it, despite it being an inefficient use of resources. Against a Titan or Knight-class enemy, the Atrapos pilot would be like:>Hmm I see, I see. Stay still while I lascut you
>>96484248Nah they're meant to kill anything big in general. Impractically large gun turret? Send in the Atrapos. Tyranid-analogue xenokaiju? Atrapos. Have to bring a newly discovered knight world into compliance? Atrapos (orbital bombardment would ruin the stuff you want to steal/repurpose). Newly discovered DAoT relic got corrupted and is now shitting out self-aware Titans? Send a whole maniple of Atrapos. Newbie Princeps lost contorl of the machine spirit and now an angry Warhound is ripping your manufactorium a new exhaust port? A couple atrapii (atraposes?) will cut it into easily-retrievable chunks so you can put it back together after lobotomizing it
>>96484283Lancer is peak knight and always will be. Atrapos is try-hard lameness and should be erased from existence.
>>96484369>Can't even afford a full shield, has to settle with only the frame>Calls other knights lameYour lameness is second only to the retard baby warlord knights
>>96484248what, did you think the martians weren't blowing each other up over petty bullshit before the emperor showed up?
>>96484369>hates the based atrapos >likes the retarded knight that can't even afford a full shield and uses a giant lance designed to puncture infantry like a dunbass Toothpick Holy shit I haven't seen taste this retarded and contrarian than the sedivalle faggotOkay the sedivalle fag is worse, but you're in the same ballpark
>>96484264Nurglings infiltrate and explode on death.Allied detachments have a prime command. So you can take a sovereign it just doesn't unlock detachments.
>>96484235I know right, it's great.
So, the dust settled. What are the basics of Dueling CQC, anons? The argument between Seize or Finisher seems like the argument between straight and curved swords
>>96484456Right, but the whole point of taking a command slot guy is unlocking the brute detachment
>>96484476If you have a -i weapon you pick finisher, if you have an at-initiative or +initiative weapon you pick finisher.
Isn't it weird that a Delegatus unlocks another Apex detachment, but an actual extra Praetor doesn't, and actually costs you a Prime? By "weird" I mean "a Big Fat Mess".
>>96484476You need EW to be good.Ws6 is minimum.You should be ap2.Critical hits and rending hits are great.Everyone loses to vulkan.
>>96484498That's because the second praetor is not there as a master of a legion, he's there on a "special assignment"
>>96484498You really don't want prime high commands giving apex detachments.The ally system is already so easily abused.
>>96484484If you want to unlock a detachment take the herald to lead a unit of brutes and hand out wp9. If you want a beatstick to kill anything short of a primarch bring a sovereign.If your low on points and this is a fun flavourful add-on to a marine legion take the prince.If you want a beatstick to lead a unit take samus or corblax.
>>96484248that's not too crazy, I mean the triad ferrum morgulus were having turf wars with each other on mars for thousands of years during the age of strife. Not to mention that the mechanicum in general is extremely schismatic at the best of times
>>96484498As >>96484507, put it, it's really in the name One is there to DELEGATE command of special forces, one is there because you were touched as a child and demand to have more herohammer
>>96484476I've found characters that have at least one seriously useful gambit of their own tend to short-circuit this in a useful way, especially if your character has the lower base weapon skill. The Myrmidax is not going to stop meltagunning you before the strike step, the Div Libby shrugs at losing Fblow, turns on powerscaling vision and axes you on a 2+. Malagra priests especially have a meaningful response to being put on the back foot and losing FBlow, which is to boost their WS and Init to the stratosphere as a kind of bootleg parry-and-sieze combo. If your character is dependent on a single gambit for their damage output, like a div librarian fighting a higher-WS character, they are very vulnerable to their enemy deciding to Feint repeatedly and just statcheck them while they try to hit on 5s or what have you.In general, crits are great, especially for lower WS characters because you want those 5s/6s to really count. If your enemy drops to 1 wound, consider Flurry instead of Sieze if you have a comfortable Focus lead, it's probably made the difference for me a couple of times.EW(1) on 4W space marine characters is less protection than it first appears, because a charging enemy can boost their hammer or other D2 weapon to D3 with finishing blow and take that character out with two solid hits anyway. Seems much better on W5+, Abby is pretty swole.
>>96484476I only know it for IW, which is run Pert in and then use his gambit to have a Glaive or a Cerb unload into the poor sap fighting him.
>>96484548Desu I feel like real meta breaker will be when forges of Saturn comes out and people start have to worrying about WS5 T6 4++ 3W beef slabs with S8 AP2 D3 Crit6+ banhammers, or +2A S5 AP2 D2 axes at initiative 3, and suddenly thunder hammers ain't looking so hot anymore
>>96484548Malagras are unusable by virtue of having to footslog on their own. Can they even join any unit in the book, or board nay transport that isn't specifically tagged for them to use?
>>96484593Now imagine a saturnine command squad + praetor buffed by a biomancy librarian as they charge in. Toughness 8 terminators.
>>96484593That squad is so expensive you just treat it the same as any primarch squad.
>>96484601I didn't want to say it myself because I felt like that tilted the argument too much,but yes a squad led by a Tartaros or power armored librarian (gives them a 2" setup move which is actually a big difference) and getting T8 and either S7 thunder hammers at home axes that hit like lightning claws or S10 hammers if you want to enact some looney tunes action vs land raiders as well will get wacky
>>96484593Yeah, the Saturnine Praetor is already a big motherfucker due to having 6W and that absurd hammer, I'm surprised I haven't seen him talked about more as a challenge monster just shoved into regular Heavy squads. Screw the teleport transponder, take a normal transport.>>96484601They can join whatever they please, albeit at a slight penalty in some cases. They are lacking in delivery systems, though, there's nothing good for them to infiltrate with and although they will happily load up in a Triaros it'll cost you a prime advantage to get some Malagra-tagged Scyllax or servo-bots to go with them, and that unit can't score, which is a pain. You can cast Cybertheurgy before a disordered charge though, so feel free to disembark that triaros, buff up and then go rip some limbs off terminators.
this thread has been scaled trvely
>>96484630Will they though? Obviously we don't know any point costs, but comparing the % point upcharge on cataphractii and terminator command squads I'm expecting them to be in the 250-300 point range for 3 models with just axes and fists which would honestly be pretty efficient even on their own assuming WS5, 3A modifications to the saturnine statline, and they'd take buffs incredibly well
>>96484593I would have agreed if I hadn't seen Cata Termies have to make d6+1in charges thanks to heavy and feel very sad and useless when a reposition reaction gets popped.
>>96484642That's a tonofhoops to jump through and a serious listbuilding cost too. >they can join any unit with penaltiesAt that point juststick him in an allied WE despoiler squad, why limit yourself to the WS3 robots?
>>96484208I'm in two minds about dominion choice for Sovereigns in particular. If you're dueling you want Divination so you can eradicate people with D3 hitting on 2+ at effective init 5, and Telekinesis is good because it gives you a real gun to pin people before the charge and Shrouded 4+ so vehicles struggle to zap you out of the air. Don't need Deep Strike so for pure sovereign fighting you may as well take Ravenous DissolutionIf you don't want to duel you probably want Nurgle for the extra durability, since a S12 greatblade will can-open the heavier tanks and T8 w/ FNP 6+ means you can happily cleave through hammer boys.For brutes I would be hesitant to make them Heavy unless you're summoning them point-blank with a Harbinger, since techpriests aren't Heavy and Brutes aren't exactly fast to begin with.
>>96484676I still don't understand why you can't just stick him in a malagra scyllax unit and run him up the board normally desu. It's not like he's heavy or they're particularly slower than anything else, or that you're using the malagra apex detachment ever
>>96484661With a praetor that jumps up to like 600 pts, just take a primarch and enjoy the ay buffs. >>96484642He's got lower initiative and few attacks, doesn't he? Wonder how he fares on a 1v1 vs a cata th praetor?assuming equal WS and a 4+ invuln, he gets about 1 hit in past the invuln, and if the praetor survives it probably kills himback over 2 rounds of striking first, doesn't he? Of course tthere's always the chance of rolling well and plapping him in one turn
>>96484698Unless I'm missing something, scyllax seem rather mediocre, not really wortha logi benefit. Then again mech gets detachments out the ass and no good targets for master sarge so maybe that's the best use for primes anyways
>>96484676The allied WE despoiler squad with the out-of-faction character attached can't go in a transport at all, and you have to leave the unit to self-buff with Overcharged Reactors. 100-200pts of Scyllax will do their job much better, they're WS5 MEQ blenders, and 12 Echidnax will do it cheaper and maybe claw open a couple of terminators with their reasonable volume of S8 D2 attacks at Guided WS4.>>96484704He loses 1A and is effectively I0 in challenges from Heavy + -3 hammer, yeah, but dear god the damage. First time I rolled this out he won the coinflip for who charged, tanked everything since a hammer wounds him on 3s and then removed the enemy with a single D5 FB crit.There is also the significant possiblity of thunder hammer guy losing 3W on round 1 and then losing init round 2, or Saturnine guy just tanking two rounds of hits on his 6 wounds, I think the Saturnine guy is going to take it more often than not.
>>96484714Huh? They're WS5 (might as well have printed WS6 on the sheet desu) T5 models with 4 power axes attacks each that also are basically phase (T) just for existing, and all that when you can get a squad of 10 for the same price as a squad of 5 WS5 Terminators. Their only weaknesses are 6++ melee 5++ ranged invulnerable (let's be honest there's no real difference between a 2+ and a 3+ armor save for retinue anyone targeting them will be AP2), but having incredibly easy access to Ws6 makes up for that.
>>96484513>You really don't want prime high commands giving apex detachments.Mechanicum
>>96484727Fair enough, I imagine over a large enough sample size satrie comes out ahead, though I bet it's close enough that the difference in poinrs makes it nor worth it, especially considering regular praetor ia better outside challenges, while the sattie is worse vs pretty much every target that isn't a vehicle or a praetor/primarch.
>>96484741Yes anon that's exactly an example of why it would be an absolutely terrible idea to make special assignments give you apexes
>>96484786Listen, if I want to replace Ursarax's brains with chimpbrains, and modify their vox grills so they can only apeak in slurs, why am I forced to take a nearly mandatory thrall tax and waste my archmagos babysitting them?
>>96484799Jesse what the fuck are you taking about, you're not forced to stick laecrymata in thralls, you can put him literally anywhere and just rely on overcharged reactors
>>96484813Yeah but then the lacry trait does nothing
Saw this online, figured you guys would like it.
Lost to the nails seems cute, but it feels like the regular trait, apex, gambit, etc are all way better than the hereticus ones. Am I missing something?>>96485068Damn right we do
>>96485075Being able to just ignore a lot of status shit etc is quite strong.The fucking rules make absolutely not sense from a lore perspective though.The more sane marines are better at melee always, while the evil crazy marines are just vanilla, but are IW against status, and it makes them angry and only better at melee in that one scenario. ???
>>96485085the weird part is it only works on Ld checks, not cool checks. And if you're failing LD checks it's likely you're already missing a chunk of your models
Had some serious shit go on recently and my hobby stalled. Got 10 SA, 10 marines and a Leman Russ all sat around in various states of incompleteness, and no time to do it. Show me what you've been working on to make me feel better.
>>96485068is this traitor UM? the trophy spikes with impaled head seems a bit brutal for smurfs. looking nice though
>>96485126The average Ultramarine is more of a violent psychopath than the most depraved serial killer in real life. Carrying a trophy is the least concerning thing they could do.
Does this qualify as "Blanchitsu"?
>>96484502>Everyone loses to vulkan.I did have a game against him last week. I didn't realise he was so so much better and above anyone else.My Horus did go down and Vulkan didn't even break a sweat... and that gambit.. I don't like calling for nerfs, but he really is absurdly overpowered right now.
>>96485210>don't take a primarch >no issues Sounds like a simple problem to me desu
>>96485222I like playing primarchs anon.
>>96485234Then you deserve what's coming to you
>>96485210>that gambitIt needs to be once per game. Most primarchs will struggle to do 3 wounds to him and then he just gets d3 back every round. The worst bit is if you turn off the gambit hell just finishing blow you.
>>96485246Why tho ? Primarchs are cool. I was just pointing out a questionable balance choice.You don't like primarchs ? Fine. I didn't like facing "original" HQs all armed with thunder hammers during 2nd edition neither to be honest.Anyway: balance is important. That's all I'm trying to say.
>>96485288I have no idea on how to balance him out. The gambit I would like it to be changed competely but even then, a T7,S7,7W with 6 dmg 3 crit5+ hammer that can never be wounded on a better than 3+ with EW3 on top screams too much for me. Even without taking into account his gambit or very good sire rule.
>>96485210Salamanders are overpowered this edition for the same reason the IF were in HH2: they're the pet faction of one of the designers.Watch this and pay attention:>Tale.of.Four.Gamers.S01.E01.The.First.1000.Pointshttps://gofile.io/d/wMviw4
>>96485208I like it
I know Kharn being a blender is to be expected, but I'm surprised at how much of a blender he is. He's not even that expensive! I've got a question for WE anons though. Red butchers have their own "bitter duty"-like rule. But there are no characters with that rule? So nobody can join them?
>>96485311>Can never be wounded better than 3+I mean, he's T7, were you planning on shooting him with a Volcano Cannon?>Gambit, sire ruleWhat do they do? Don't have my rulebook handy. Also what's his WS?
>>96485356Gambit is +d3 wounds regen at the cost of no bonus to focus each time this gambit is selected.Sire is basically old stubborn of your army ignore any modifier to ld, cool, will and int during the first turn.To get 4 prime slots: 4 troops needs to be equiped with forgecraft weapons.
Ah, your butt is mine, gon' tell you right, ahJust show your face in broad daylight, ahI'm tellin' you on who I feel, ahGonna hurt your mind, don't shoot to killShamone, ah, shamoneLay it on me, ah, alrightAh, I'm givin' you on count to three, ahJust show your stuff or let it be, ahI'm tellin' you, just watch your mouth, ahI know your game, what you're aboutWell, they say the sky's the limitAnd to me that's really true, ahBut, my friend, you have seen nothin'Just wait 'til I get throughBecause I'm bad, I'm bad, shamone (bad, bad, really, really bad)You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)You know it (really, really bad)You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)Shamone, you know (really, really bad)And the whole world has to answer right nowJust to tell you once againWho's bad?
>>96485356Ws7, initiative 5 with no negative modifiers on his hammer.But never wounded on a better than 3+ usually comes against lascannons (or laser variants), demolishers, kratos turrets or other primarchs weapons.
>>96485328This reminded me how good the sallies unique reaction is as well.
can primarch stats be affected by rules such as phage now?
>>96485486Yes. Even ld or cool debuff.
>>96485486Yes, and they're not Fearless. Put a Fear (2) unit or a squad of AL effrit within 12" of the vast majority of Primarchs and apply status (3) and it'll stick well over half the time. Most primarch deathstars seem rather short on nuncio-voxes, so it might be surprisingly sensible to just CC them.
How to we fix Sigismund?
So, what use has an Arvus in Militia and SA lists?It's too fragile, barely armed and with how flyers are treated in 3.0. the only thing I can think of is to dump a squad on an objective. Or am I missing something tactical?
>>96485718What's wrong with Sigismund in the first place? Not choppy enough?>>96485339This is the case, yes, although so far there's nobody who can join a regular Bitter Duty squad either, so they're effectively the same.
>was recommended HH over 40k because of rules stability and flavor>HH 3.0 leaks while I'm buying generic kits>wait to see community consensus before committing to a rule set or legion>there is none>not even on the rescaled armor marksThis whole HH3 episode is teaching me that uncertainty can stun lock my decision making skills and that I don't think I like people.
>>96485075You're right. But Lost to the Nails isn't as bad as it first appears. The basic trait requiring you to lose a Ld check is garbage, as we all said upon seeing it. The secret sauce here is the Reaction. So, the normal WE reaction is a Once Per Game deal, but the Hereticus one ISN'T, and it enables you to take a unit that's being charged and make them lost to the nails and then countercharge. Which could have it's uses if used on a unit with Impact somewhere. Of course it still has the problem that it's a reactive thing, not a proactive thing like the standard trait, but at least you can force a Lost to the Nails result without it being a completely random Ld check.Now you just need to find someone dumb enough to charge World Eaters.But yes. The other trait is indeed worse than the standard one.
>>96485742No that's pretty much it. Hope you roll well turn 1 and deploy deep outside your deployment zone.
Alpha Legion continuing apace. Headhunter came out looking pretty good.
>>96485742>the only thing I can think of is to dump a squad on an objective.That's the point of light flying vehicles?
>>96485794Play with older rules then, nothing is going to change with those.
Balls of steel and a 5+ save. What are you working on this weekend?
>>96485989
>>96484369>Atrapos is try-hardNot my fault it's finally good. I preordered mine a decade ago.
So what's the purpose of the Combat Force boxes? Are they supposed to be starter boxes or expansion boxes? Are they even enough to play a Zone Mortalis without breaking the bank?
>>96485794>there is noneYou haven't been paying attention
>>96485794>>wait to see community consensusEver tried forming you own opinion, you mindless drone?
>>96486021Starter boxes yes. They are enough to start playing regular HH 3.0 since there are no compulsory unit slots any more.
>>96485794>I don't like people>I need other people to tell me if I like something, or what I should want to buy, and their "consensus" is very important to meDefinitely a tough spot to be in.
>>96486021>So what's the purpose of the Combat Force boxes?Discounts on things you were probably going to buy anyways.
>>96486065But you can't run that mech box without a HQ
>>96485099You're ahead of me, I can't even pick a scheme
>>96486141Convert an HQ then.
>>96485099Those models look nice anon. Hope everything calms down quickly.Have a DA saturnine praetor that I recently finished. Also got a dual gravis plasma cannon castaferrum dread done, and wanna start on the saturnine dreadnought after having seen what D2 plasma blasts can do.
>>96486141If you're not building a psychotic tech priest conversion you're not starting mechanicum right.
>>96486025>>96486056>>96486072Literally isn't any consensus locally. I'm unfortunately choosing "a side" of some unseen argument by endorsing an edition to play. Here on /hhg/? Depends what time you're on here if people are supporting or hating 3.0.Also, why wouldn't other group member's opinions matter? Why wouldn't legion diversity play a role? The intent was to be considerate of a budding HH community. It's not NPC behavior to take into account other people's feelings if you're going to have to be friends with them.
>>96486182Decide what you like, enjoy it with like minded people, fuck the haters. It really is that simple.
>>96486192Like being new to HH, I'm new to the town. Everyone seemed okay with 2.0 if the group would commit to regularity play. When leaks of 3.0 came out, it wasn't a "2.0 vs 3.0" debate; it was a full blown autism "1.0v2.0v3.0" that drug in some old beefs.And then seeing anything from irl being mirrored on 4chins, or vice versa, always gives me pause.
>>96486065>there are no compulsory unit slots any moreWait, what about the Crusade Primary Detachment? The Combat Force box comes only with about 500pts of minis as well. I don't think many people play such small games, sadly.
>>96486267They could do a spearhead/combat patrol like game but if that was planned it would probably already be on the roadmap
>>96485208Nice
>>96486238Don't pay too much attention to what /hhg/ says, the majority of people here are armchair generals and game designers who never play the game after all. Honestly, that group kind of sounds like a bunch of petty highschool girls who would rather cause drama than resolves their issues, who won't be fun to play against regardless of what game it is.
>>96486267Usually people have no problem playing small point games, especially with people who are new to the hobby. If they do have issues with it, they're usually assholes that are not fun to play against to begin with.Have you tried asking?
>>96486313 I got that feeling too. If I wanted drama, I'd come to /hhg/. The plan is reading black books/rule books/exemplary battles in publishing order to see what activates neurons. And then play small solo games.
>>96486343Desu honestly after I finish my word bearers I was thinking of doing an Inquisimunda warband specifically using that one ruleset based off kill team's single player rules so I could have use my 3 armies (blackshields, traitor mechanicum, and word bearers) as npc enemies
>>96486357That sounds pretty dope. Working up a narrative simulation sounds more appealing than dealing with people.
Rolled 5, 2 = 7 (2d6)rolling to see if he casts conflagration
Rolled 3 + 3 (1d6 + 3)>>96486431rolling his attacks
>>96486436rolling to hi->WS2yeah nevermind he's missing that shit>cant get in a challenge and have divination to hit on 2s
>>96486441>laughs in tainted flesh
>>96486450no that's what I mean, he can take pyromancy+divination for the funnies, but he cant challenge, he's a sergeant not a championyou'd need to waste a master sergeant on him to do that
>>96485794Shut the fuck up. Sit and spin on this for a while.
Rolled 3 + 8 (1d3 + 8)>>96486455regardless though I miscalculated his attacks
Rolled 3, 5, 3, 2, 4, 3, 2, 5, 3, 3, 6 = 39 (11d6)>>96486476hitting on 2s
>>96485992>>96485989Feudal guard sexo.
Rolled 6, 2, 6, 2, 3, 5, 4, 1, 3, 6, 4 = 42 (11d6)>>96486482wounding on 3s (S5 vs T4)can an anon please make as many saves as required? your praetor clearly has a 2+ save
>>96486475wut
>>96486515he's asking you to sit on his dick and take it for a spin.
Rolled 4, 2, 6, 1, 6, 1, 4, 3 = 27 (8d6)>>96486486Rolling saves
>>96486517but he said "this" and posted nothing, is he dickless?
>>96486529It's part of the phrase. You can't see it but he was pointing to he crotch. But you may be right.
>>96486536either way, seems pretty gay to invite guys to sit on you
>>96486551yeah, welcome to /hhg/ and we're not even talking about Nightlord fags.
>>96486525>2 woundsnot bad I guessalright, slap me back and 1 shot me
Rolled 1, 1, 4, 1 = 7 (4d6)>>96486566Rolling for Deflagrate also, first two dice are wound rolls, second two dice are saves associated with those wounds if successful.
Thinking somethin' deviousKrondspire Incarnate as an Infernal Tempest Sovereign
>>96485781he's too cheap for just being able to slaughter people outright
maybe I should organize a primarch duelling minigame at my local GWjust say that you can use any primarch, the plastic 40k ones can be used as their 30k equalivents (because it's a GW and they're averse to anything that excludes 40k) (except 40k mortarion go fuck yourself I guess) and maybe some other stuff like greater daemons as sovereignsall using challenges and the gambit minigame to see who comes out on top, with players betting on the winner of each fight before dice are thrown
>>96486455Oh, lol never noticed that. Personally, I want to port over cephalyx as Feral Warrior + Tainted Flesh militia, with the gimp doctors as rogue psykers and discipline masters and big guys as summoned daemon brutes. The big thing I had to overcome is even with the new stuff, there's not a lot of poses for what would be 100+ model army, until I had the idea of digibashing some of the helmets from the thralls as just a bunch of heads I can stick on aos khorne dudes
>>96486614He's what 250pts? Seems fairly expensive to me, possibly more than a character of his choppiness warrants. Hell, he goes even with your average Arcuitor and the Arcuitor is 155-170 fully geared, has a meltagun and can throw buffs around for your other units, and for the same price Abbadon is probably scarier in a challenge, more durable outside of one and gives you deepstriking Justies.
>>96486647I’d love to mow these things down from across the table. I love heresy so much bros. So much room for OG ideas and conversions to explore the imagination and wage war on a beautiful table.
>>96486689The spirit of the game.
>>96484786I'd say Mechanicum are in dire need of extra apexes. That's what I keep hearing their players say
>>96486766>Mechanicoomers want to have more apex detachments than everybody else getsStill the WAACfag army it seems.
Clarification. Ferrus Manus was trying to implement Conversion Fields into the Gordon Terminators like the Ecclesiarchy do with Rosarius and Iron Halos, correct? That seems like a mediocre thing to have trouble with for a Primarch.
>>96486689I have a big heap of Napoleonic minis leftover from my Turnip28 army, I’m thinking of rolling them into a Heresy militia, but they’re quite small.
>>96486821>Vat-grown soldiers genetically altered to be as strong as regular soldiers whilst having a smaller stature to make them smaller targets in a firefightBoom done.
>>96486647Fighting a horde just for a narrative day would be so fun
>>96486848>itty bitty muskets hit as hard as a lasgunIt is kind of funny, I suppose.
>>96486865Laser pointers hit as hard as lasguns lol
>>96486872It’d also be cool to build a big zombie horde. The ultimate expendable troops for Iron Warriors.
Land Raider Carriers are much smaller than I expected.I was expecting it to be as big as my Redeemer in 40k.
>>96486172>these are starter boxes>but you can't start without an HQ>passiveaggressive.exe
>Victrix releasing new WWII German heavy weaponsWere the Blood Pact around for the Heresy or were they first contacted in the Sabbat Crusade?
>>96486889That's the second reason I don't like them. The first is that their interior is rubbish compared to a land raider phobos, and the thirdnis how thencupola is useless between the tracks like that
>>96486916There were quadrullions of humans in the galaxy, the idea of "militaritic and disciplined khorne worshippers" is not unique enough to be a one off occasion even before the heresy >>96486916
So when's the rest of 3.0 releases?Isn't it a bit... Empty, for a new edition?
>>96486958What's missing?
>>96486958Gotta stime out the releases to keep people engaged.Which is actually true not just a lame buisness model.
>>96486958It isn't? We even got the militia and daemon rules already, which took like a year after 2.0 launched.
>>96486965Is that a genuine question?The stuff they have shown/teased would be a good start, then the resin range to plastic.https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m11ujimg/saturnine-your-questions-on-the-new-edition-of-horus-heresy-answered/>Are there more new models on the way?In short, yes. There are loads. What’s more, this edition will accelerate the move from resin to plastic – making the jump is a mix of classic units (such as the MKII Crusade armour) alongside never-before-seen units. And it’s not just the little stuff. Did you see that new tank? It’s not the only one…
Alright, here’s a retarded question, anons. Where do I find the lists of Militia Special Weapons and Militia Heavy Weapons? I feel like a fucking numbskull, I can’t find it
>>96486987Have a little patience you fucking zoomer. The new edition has barely been out for a month and a half. If GW did all the new releases right after launch, you'd be complaining about the lack of new releases during the rest of the new edition instead. It's also a smarter business move, most people don't have the kind of money to buy 20 new things within two months. Spreading the new releases over a year or more means more sales, because people don't have to pick one thing first then forget about the rest because the hype died down.Stupid bitch.
>>96486766One Apex is fine for Mech, they could just really use a way to get Retinue and Elite slots that aren't the Apex det or Logistical Benefit since the army is pretty committed to taking its own ones rather than the generics. No jump pack Magi is fucking them over far more than anything else, since 3e missions really care about being able to get those scoring models onto points round 1 and their transports are far too expensive to use for the equivalent of rhino-tacs.
>>96486992Holy shit I’m retarded. I found it.
>>96486992You're quite genuinely dumb, anon.
>>96487016Didn't read, I'm allergic to retards.
>>96487067Must he tough, being allergic to yourself. And being illiterate of course, like all zoomers are. Go ask grok to read it to you or something.
How do you want your Blackshields, Anons? Closer to 2.0 where you get a couple of rules that effect wargear, stats, or FOC, with a standard army list, or more like 1.0 with a full customization suite and a broken up army list with some unique units?What do you think we'll get? Given that we're waiting so long for them I figure it'll be more like garbage the latter.
>>96487047I accept myself.
>>96486342>Have you tried asking?Yes, there is only a couple of HH players in my area and they play mostly 3000pts games. Most of them are busy family men so whenever they have any spare time for hobby - once a week at best from what I have been told - they want to use it for big games. I totally understand them since I'm in the same boat but I prefer to play multiple short games rather than a single big one. Maybe I should buy a Mechanicum Combat Force box and play one of the alternative wargames with it? I don't plan to build a big HH army as of now - I simply like all the minis included in that box.
>>96486890Get like 4 HQs with the SA one and none with the other two
>>96487016I'm expecting the plastic breachers to be released alongside the Zone Mortalis rules.
>>96485208Bo. This is a primaris sword
>>96486978Unironically need to be drop fed les content over time to keep their attention
>>96487435Wait til you realize the plague of battle passes in video games is not for the company's benefit, it's for yours, to keep up long form engagement for player queue health. The fact that it helps stretch out content for more dev time on the next update is a secondary reason though.
What would you want out of a bat rep channel, anons?Narrative recounting?Seeing every turn in full?
>>96486784>more apex detachments than everybody else getsOf course the Astartes would know about privilege. "I get several detachments with Elites slots and Primes, don't you get those?". You know nothing of scarcity.
>>96487530What Heresy Era does with voiceovers and effects and little introductions and exits and none of the players' commentary along with the actual battle reporting.I don't care about seeing the actual players' reactions or comments or anything. Once they're in front of a camera they lose all sincerity and it's little more than improv, just like critical role or whatever that DnD group is.
>>96486811He was doing postdoctoral research whilst being a general in a galactic crusade at the same time he personally battered monsters with a hammer. Maybe he was going to figure it out when he had some free time, but he was just a bit too busy?
>>96487556>That planetfall speartipGood golly, I think I want to get some MK2 Assaults for my IW when they come out to sometimes try a list that isn't a bunch of terminators.
>>96487589That detachment is the only reason I might play 3.0, even if it would be 50% of the army points-wise.
>>96487556>Wants more apex detachments than everybody else, complains about legions>Posts auxiliary detachments>Elite slots that are hard locked to one or two specific units>Additional apex detachment at the cost of giving the opponent more VP through a second slay the warlord targetWell well aren't you a disingenuous little cunt, you fucking retard.
>>96487556Gee anon I think that might have something to do with mechanicum apex detachments being along the lines of "+1 W and +2 S for 27 models" or "make 6 vehicles AV14" or "give 27 of one of the most undercosted units of the game a 5++ invuln on top"
>>96487615What legion do you play? How are you thinking of equipping them?
Well, are they right?
>>96487830I do not know nor care who "they" are, but they are wrong. Won't elaborate further, but you can count on me being objectively correct.
>>96487830thought tooth and nail to not have DA in C, and they did aknowladge that there is a difference between playing white scars the way a lot of WS players want to play them, and how should play WS for them to be efficient.
>>96484369All of you are inferior when compared with the best knight, comically large flamethrower and punchy fist. Now with Fear (2), for even better spooking.
>>96487983
It's too bad the new knight bits won't be included in 30k. A knight with a giant plasma cannon or huge conversion beamer-dildo would be cool.I'm gonna make a knight with the plasma and call it a paladin.
>>96488184Why not? Are they a new cawl invention? I could easily see them getting in through journals
>>96488215I just figure they won't. Probably some anal reason about muh 40k unit.
>>96487587... Maybe.
>>96486958probably as soon as GW feels confident again that any retailers will touch heresy stock after the saturnine debacle
>>96488719They already do, the kratos is constantly being sold out within a day over here. I knew I should have gotten one before the end of 2.0, when absolutely nobody wanted it...
>>96487830How the fuck did they get DA up to there?
>>96488766A frankly hilarious amount of copium
>>96487830>word bearers >not in D Wow I didn't think it was possible to be this wrong
>>96487830>AL>C tierwhat are they smoking?
>>96488215the weapons sure but the void shield whatever would need very carefully worded rules or it'd make dealing with Kratos etc even harsher than it already is
>>96489157Just make it a pavaise? Good for the yeoman.
>>96487830What were they rating ? Armor Color scheme ? No way they placed WB or DA this high while rating AL and RG this low if they were talking about rules and units.
>>96488247There's always Legendcies.
>>96489184If they never legacied warlord and reaver carapace options or the castellans they won't give us this.
>>96488184To be added to the knights armylist in an upcoming tactica journal, now pay those 60 bucks please (:
Is there anything that stops you from reacting with multiple units to 1 enemy action?
>>96489182The amount of people who people think RG don't really have a trait because it turns off within 18" is crazy. They'll say that and place all the niche legion traits above it that only active in a more narrow scenario. This list cant be including units because IW are B on a good day. AL and RG units are so abusable.
>>96487830Top tier by far: TS, AL, SaliesRock bottom without being close : DA, WBThe rest falls in between and are more or less balanced between each others (with NL and RG leading the pack i'd say)
So long as Thousand Sons are still on top
Why are they trying so hard to make me think Eidolon was ever a competent commander?
>>96489252how NL of you
>>96489202>castellans That's why 1.0 was the best.
>>96489281Anyone who claimed otherwise got hit with a +initiative TH
Tank scheme concept. Trim will be brass/tin. Where else should I put white?
>>96489281Well he was the most competent commander in the entire EC legion. Which admittedly is like being the most serious person of the clown posse.
>>96489334Paint the little side doors white so they look like mini fridges and the boys can pull out some cold ones mid battle
It bothers me that the mockup doesn't have the subtle patterned markings otherwise common on RG plate.
>>96489369Remember Corax hates T*rmies, so RG would take no pride in wearing the fat suit while your dad calls you a filthy bigger
>>96489369Of all things saturnine feels like something that some legions just wouldn't use.
Night Lords had skin crochetting lodges where they sat around to do arts and crafts with body parts and taught each other techniques
>>96489476Meh
>>96489476What is that supposed to be?
>>96489476Since ligma got plastic mini whirlwinds I need them for HH.
>>96489481Ein Wirbelwind der Space Marines.
>>96489476What could this possibly do to be different from the scorpius
>>96489502Phospex missiles
>>964895027" blast, ap5 probably
>>96489508GW doesn't do ammo upgrades anymore
>>96489519Aside from all the other phosphex weapons?
>>96489502Larger blast, lower strength but way cheaper in points, chance to apply a status effect. Whirlwinds have always been the ideal artillery to clean out light chaff infantry.
>>96489502Cheaper and more varied missile options. Scorpius was a purpose built siege weapon. A comparison could be, say, the M270 vs. the TOS-1. The former has wide variety of munitions types while the latter is built around one type of warhead.
>>96489528What are you talking about GW stripped out the siegebreaker unlocking phospex, he just has a detachment for artillery now
>>96489576HH players can't read
>>96489576Go back to school, because you clearly don't know how to read lmao
>>96489576Reminder that whenever you see someone say "oh no one's going to play 3rd, everyone hates it" on here, 50% chance it's one of these stupid motherfuckers
>>96489576Think he's talking about this.
Why are Blood Angels players so rare?
>>96489619because BA are lame and the only cool thing about them, Death Company, isn't a thing in 30k
>>96489619Without the black rage and until recently sanguinary guard, 30k BA is a downgrade in flavor and unit variety and serves to introduce retarded shit like jump pack dreadnoughts or assault cannon nipples
>>96489606More like 80% at least.
>>96489502Maybe a single shot weapon that doesn't have blast but has significant damage and S?I don't think we have anything like that atm
>>96489502The scorpius is useless while this will be useful.
>>96489637What's the percentage of people who don't say anything, just play 1.0 and 2.0?
>>964896660%, retard. Then they're not on here and not shitting up the thread.
>>96489666Very low. Most 1.0 and 2.0 players I know of are like vegans, they will tell you about it unprovoked constantly.
>>96487585Heresy Era is so fucking good. I literally can’t do any other channel now-why watch boring slobs roll dice when I can have story and flavor!? Their only fault is it’s so slow but it’s completely understandable. Think they said they’ll have a new one tomorrow actually>>96487830Not in the slightest and I can tell whoever this is contemptible by that 1/10th headshot>>96489619I ask myself this too. I assume a combination of: assmad melee is more WE in 30k, gold is a bitch to paint, and no Death Company which isn’t the *only* cool thing about them like one anon said but is a big oneAlso dread jumpers and nipple cannons rule and everyone should have more
>>96489674Yeah, how dare someone come to /hhg/ and talk about anything other than the latest and greatest /hhg/ rules and lore?
Think we'll get an official Master of Descent model?
>>96489780Pretty sure the point of journal units is to not have official models for them
>>96489404Corax hates the Deliverers and Cataphractii. Tartaros was fine. Though there is no way enough RG survived to use saturnine.
>>96489780No. It was repeatedly stated that tactica journals are meant to provide people opportunities to kitbash and convert new units.
What faction do I play if I'm prone to avoiding my responsibilities?
>>96489838In 30k? Ultramarines.
Uh... has anyone noticed that a Moritat with the Paragon of Battle Prime Advantage and some plasma pistols is completely fucking murderous thanks to him being BS6 natively, and upping that to 7 means every single 5 to hit he rolls (across his six attack rolls with said pistols) autowounds at 2 damage AP2?Which he can do twice in a turn thanks to firestorm?
>>96489724Brother I'd love if people came and talked about other editions. But no one does. It's literally always "3.0 sucks I'm going back to 1.0!" With no elaboration or discussion beyond how much 3.0 sucks. Literal waste of space.
>>96489854Moritats can't have Paragon of battle, they're specialist not command. Probably for exactly this reason. (And also to duck challenges)
https://juddsinmongolia.com/2024/06/06/color-symbolism-in-mongolia/>In Mongolian culture, there are several colors that hold symbolic significance, namely white, red, blue, yellow, green, and black. The “best” color is white and it is used to symbolize goodness, holiness, and positivity. This is why milk tea and other “white foods” (i.e. dairy products) are seen as especially good. >Red represents fire, strength, bravery, and love. huh, how fitting for the White Scars.
Man I don't know if I've just finally been indoctrinated or what but God some of the old heads just look so absurdly goofy on the new bodies (Not mine)
>>96489855I've talked about older editions, but there's no engagement in such discussions. Either everything's been said a thousand times over or people just want to talk about 3.0.
>>96489881They look the appropriately sized for anyone that understands that a helmet is not supposed to be the same size as a bare head
>>96489838DA if you don't want to admit you avoid themEC if you claim you're above said resplnsibilitiesIW if you blame others for your behaviorWS if you steaight up run away from themSW if you make up bullshit excuses for avoiding themIF if you beat yourself up over avoiding ghemNL if you love inserting large objects into your assBA if you forget about your responsibilities in the first placeIH if you think you're better off like this and don't need to changeWE if you lash out at anyone who calls you out on itUM if you claim you know better than to do themDG if you try to nlameothers for itTS if you avoid them due to your autistic hyperfixation with other thingsSoH if you avoid them due to bad influencesWB if you call others out on doing the same like a hypocriteSallies if you avoid them due to bekng busy helping others with theirsRG if you try to hide the fact that you avoid them from peopleAL if you gaslight people into believing that you didn't avoid them and it's already taken care of
>>96489879Why did you think GW made WS white with red spot colour?
>>96489855>It's literally always "3.0 sucks I'm going back to 1.0!" With no elaboration or discussion beyond how much 3.0 sucks.I'm gonna let you in on a secret, anonNone of those people have actually ever played the game
>>96489854>>96489860Yeah, you've got to put them in a True Believers squad and apply cybertheurgy if you want the delicious crits, and that's usually too much work for a cheap and cheerful 100pt plasma hose. You can, however, Paragon a Vigilator and have 2/3 of your precision hits autowound for 3 damage AP2, which I think is the only way you should be running those guys.
>>96489879I really want to go white scars, but I heard painting white is rough, also outriders are way too expensive
>>96489879>White is superior>Black is negstive, inferior, insultingJagathai, you can't say those things in front of Vulkan...
>>96489838
>>96489881They'll look better with the pauldrons on, thej balance out the whole thing>>96489889A marine's head is peoportionally smaller than a human's, so woth a helmet they go back to human proportions
>>96489898The same happens with 40k.I started with 7e in college, but I've never played the ones before it so I have no nostalgia for anything pre 7e.
>>96489860Oh well, they're still critting on a 6+ at least. Plus Thousand Sons can still slap Corvidae on them and give them Rending 5+ pretty easily.
>>96487530Heresy Era and the old 30k Channel had the best content. Invest in good terrain, interesting armies, and narrative instead of interviews. I don't want over-the-head camera cringe 40k tournament shit.
Does the salamanders rule ignore poison 2+? It says they can’t be wounded on 1 or 2.
>>96489954Erm sorry anon actually good terrain doesn't work well for battle reports because things don't die quickly enough >actual things said by real YouTubers>ignore the fact that his primary armies are iron hands and iron warriors
>>96489889This, so much this. The tiny heads, especially on the mkvi is awful.
>>96487954fluffy WS are dogshit, but if you're a brainlet who enjoys 3.0 you can spam tactical squads and make them B tierwow so cool
>>96489879Old GW was a bunch of history nerds, so they may well have read about that sort of stuff when making chapters.This has also made me want to start a Scars army.
>>96489986Yep. If the dice is 1 or 2 it always fails against salamanders no matter what. It says regardless of all special rules that set the Target Number for wound tests (aka poison)
>>96487830I don't even need to take a look at the chart. The fact there's anyone else on the tier with Tzeentch means the people who made it are fucking retard children who can't play the game.
>>96489999If you ignore fluff, WS are A-tier probably. They can throw multiple terminator squads into melee from like 21-25 inches away on turn 1, even if its totally unfluffy and they're heavy and not normally allowed to rush (by the power of Storm, mutant of wind magic)With all their extra movement +2" armywide and 12-14" redeploys and weather magic rushing heavies and dreadnoughts +4" and ignores-terrain and Fast(2) armywide from jaghatai and such they can switch their army to whatever sides of the battlefield opponent's expensive deathstar isn't on to dominate each war like an oldschool Eldar craftworlds player pulling a Napoleonic war maneuver. Their god-speed keeps them on even keel with Alpha Legion, who are A-tier normally only because normally it's really hard to outmaneuver or charge them, but that's not a thing when your White Scars move so fast they can wrap around alpha legion squads or shove them into terrain so they can't have a legion rule (while also having chased them away from all objectives)The armies they have no chance of ever brawling with (like a Vulkan/Horus Deathstar) you just dance around and waste his time with sacrificial speedbumps and failed charges, while capping the 2 objectives without vulkan on them all game.WS, like everyone else, have little chance against properly cheesed Thousand Sons this edition, but they have a better time against them than most others. Corvidae's super ultra shooting buffs are less relevant against Scars when they can minimize the time they're getting shot using super mobility to tag things in melee hopefully before they get way too much god-shots off (some of the other anti-shooting buffs like IH -1S don't help against rend) And if the TS player is a TAC list with other cheese like Kratos+Mechanic for 500-600 points, if you've taken weather witches and super-speed infantry instead of landraiders, then his anti-tank and mechanic are just kinda dead weight that won't stop you capping the objective.
>>96489666Listen Satan, 3.0 sucks.
>>96490179
>>96489920wrong. All the artwork and 100% text descriptions say a space marines heads are enormous blocks of granite with huge chins and foreheads and rocky balboa brows and they look like an entirely different species from human beings.Space marine heads on tabletop are entirely incorrectly sized. The heads are too large to fit inside of their helmets, literally.
>>96489999How did they manage to mess up bikes two editions in a row? Does -1T make that much of a difference on whether bikes are functional vs display pieces.
>>96490185marge is as dead as the heresy
>>96490188Why do you think so many marines have naked heads? Its cause they cant get their helmet on.
>>96490174>>96489999So, uh, did I pick a bad time to ditch AL to move to Scars? I haven't played 3.0 yet.
>>96489898actually there's 10-20 pages of very elaborate clear explanations why 3rd edition is fundamentally broken. Terrain being the worst they've ever done in 50 years, 1 point of weapon skill still being godmode, all-or-nothing visibility where you either see all 20 members of a squad for seeing 1 hair or you see 0 members, 1d6 charging, charge bonuses +1A removal, sweeping advance removal, volley shooting to shoot twice by failing charges intentionally, volley shooting actual pistolsl making units fail charges and lose the game, precision reducing even primarchs to toughness 4, wound allocation gimmicks, basic weapon imbalances, line/vanguard bullshit, the terrible challenge system with only 2-3 real gambits and 5 fakes, broken deepstrike with zero scatter and no melee ever, 4 turn game length, dual wielding removal, removal of all rerolls oversimplifying even rare special weapons so there's only 3 melee weapons in game (the basic useless, the fast so-so and the slow kaboom), end of turn objective scoring, loss of warlord traits and rites of war, brainlet auto-charges from all transports without counterplay, removal of night battles, the silly stratagem points system where you buy several desk jockeys to stand around in the corner doing nothing so your army gets magical powers from desk muppets, ridiculous space marine emotion system which only needed 2 stats instead of 4 and still has no relation to the lore, imbalanced rending rule and critical hit rule automatically triggering breaching and automatically triggering shredding entirely ruining the half-assed attempts to write rules for the game (basic rend and basic crit skipping the wound phase should use basic-AP of the weapon and never shred. If you want a SuperRend and SuperCrit rule that activates Breaching/Rend, those should be a separate more expensive rule, rather than something given to every model with Tzeentch or High ballistic skill)There's more but you're just intentionally a retard.
>>96490262>actually there's 10-20 pages of very elaborate clear explanations why 3rd edition is fundamentally broken.Ok, link them then.
>>96490255Scars are fine if you aren't dedicated to trying to run 100% bikers or some fluffy nonsense. And you can't do primarch duels, as Jaghatai is F-tier with Corvus Corax, but you can run like hell and just play football trying to score 2 circles on the ground.They're not one of the shit-tier armies like Dark Angels or maybe Word Bearers.
>>96490272you have already been spoon fed, man-baby company shill. Zero people fell for your scam.
>>96490211That's not the real problem with WS, the problem is that their trait benefits slow units the most and fast units the least. So you're incentivized to take the exact opposite of what they'd take in the lore. If a unit moves 10 inches base, 2 inches is a 20% increase. If a unit moves 4 inches base, it's a 50% increase. Bikes are laready getting where you want them to go regardless of trait, but Cataphractii terminators get a massive boost from getting 50% more movement
>>96490262>Thinks re-rolls being gone is a bad thingOpinion discarded lmao. Could expand, but you're not worth the time.
>>96490218kinda interesting that both the Plague Marines and Iron Hands conform to the Chaos Warriors practice of fusing their biological body to their armor plating so they can never take their armor off but it provides them superior durability and protection. I guess we're lucky Ferrus Mannus didn't land on Terra and have to drown the kaiju monster in india, then there would be two nurgle factions.
>>96490295I acceept your concession of defeat. As with all shill manbabies, you never stood the slightest chance of winning any argument.
>>96490262>rather than something given to every model with Tzeentch>model with TzeentchSpotted the 40kg tourist. Go back and troll in your own containment board.
>>96490274Oh. Oh no.
>>96490281Anon, the burden is on you.You claimed that these "very elaborate clear explanations" exist and are 10-20 pages long, then when asked to produce them, you fail to do so.That points towards you not actually playing Heresy and being a tourist.
>>9649033120 tactical marines at 1000 points is fine. People who say bikes are bad in 3.0 have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Bikes have very good firepower that is very mobile for real cheap. They might not be able to claim or contest objectives, but with how cheap they are it's no issue to fit some infantry into the list to score whilst the bikes do the heavy lifting.
>played some 1e>try out psyker daemons bc I've never played them back in the dayWow these fuckers are actually terrible at killing anything. I have no idea how they got such a bad reputation when they can barely hurt power armor and brutes just get splattered by dreads in return.
>>96490335He is very obviously a tourist, just stop feeding the troll.
>>96490352WE need more pics of that dread
>>96490262What exactly are "wound allocation gimmicks" here beyond, say, sniping the guy with the big special gun first?This is obvious trolling but I will say I've been pleasantly surprised with how many of the gambits I've found an organic reason to use. Guard Up is a total waste of space and it still leans more heavily on Finishing Blow for my liking but I've used all the other generic gambits to good effect besides the withdraw-from-challenge one, which I really didn't expect when I first read the system.
>>96490359It's my buddy's and it's very good at murdering daemons.
>>96489619Cause assault marines look shit I’d play a footslogging BA list
>>96490331jetbikes and fast units are like candy or cake, you can have a little slice of cake once a day after eating regular things the rest of the day. But if someone's mealplan is 80% cake 20% food, they are gonna become familiar with a hospital quick.1k isn't where the game's played. So if you fill the other points to reach 3000 with normal meaty strong fighters and strong shooters instead of 2k of more stupid fast bikers, you might be okay. The other downside of scars is if you don't have a recaster/3d printer friend, those models are way overpriced.
What were they thinking by making cavalry unable to score? Did they forget about WS or other cavalry heavy armies? Bizarre
>>96490308kek
I goon to the emperor
Do we have libers in proper e-book form, or only in photos still?
>>96490477
>>96490477Canonically, he used his powers to look like whatever he wanted/needed at the time. So every depiction of big tiddy Empress is canon
>>96490485>Do we have libers in proper e-book form, or only in photos still?You can't buy books libers anon.The best we have is a scan that's had the text converted to be searchable.
>>96490398I love those demons anon.
>>9648961930k blood angels no longer represent the berserker army that's hip in 40k with death company, and particularly after 3rd edition ruined deepstriking melee entirely and removed drop pod assault from the game and nerfed much of the jump pack stuff too. Yet blood angels can't pivot into a generalist take-all-comers thing as they also have zero buffs to shooting or tanks to play the dignified-professionals thing of non-rager BA from 40k (as any blood angels with bolters are absolutely pathetic compared to Imp Fists with bolters, Iron Hands with bolters, Thousand Sons with bolters, Ultramarines or Alpha Legion or RavenGuard shooty army, etc.)Sanguinius is also pathetically weak, C tier if being nice. Raldoron is rather boring and generic. Have a tiny roster compared to stuff like Sons of Horus and not much flavor available, even a Tzeentch army leaning into more softcore psykers avoiding overuse of corvidae has more interesting options.The BA special weapons do nothing in 3rd edition (would rather have Salamander or IH or WS or DA or SW or UM or RG or NL weapons) - the aflame thing is just adding -1 leadership, the most homosexual and lame of all debuffs. It's fun to actually kill enemy units, not just once in a while have them take a few steps backwards in an edition without sweeping advance so they never die.BA lore is boring. 10,000 pages of "sanguinius looks at his men and frowns, he knows he's gonna be dead" That's not a wide playground of interesting characterization for your own normal blood angel unit commander. They have nothing but emotions, whereas alpha legion has actual trickery, RG has actual stealth, WS has actual speed, IH have actual toughness and tank-healing, etc.Also, with bad game mechanics and mediocre lore and being gay blonde hookers, the ornate decorated armor is the only thing going for BA, and that's too expensive for hobbying and added trim is a punishment not a reward for ordinary painters.
>>96490286The edition punishes cav alot already too.Not scoring at all is super frustrating.
Amongst Army Painter AK Paints metallics, is there a good match for leadbelcher? Was thinking of getting some paint markers as the workload of painting 30+ dudes is dawning on me lmao.
>>96484125>tq Word bearers commiting suicide by jumping infront of a volcano cannon will never be topped
>>96490211GW has never been great at balance and they always over value certain things. This edition its stuff like hordes (10pt thralls lamo, 4pt levy etc) plasma and going fast with cav. The game is all about scoring with infantry can't have something fast that does this
>>96490859It does feel like one of the most impactful reactions in the game. Meanwhile, AL...
>>96490877speaking of AL, thoughts? feels like theyre really unapreciating movement
>>96490877I have never gotten the night lords reaction to work, both in 2e or 3emy combat guys are almost always hitting from behind so half the time I would be falling back into the charging unit
>>96490882I disagree with modt of their placements HARD. How tf is RG dead last? Why are WS a whole tier below SW when they do similar things? What exactly do they value about DA?
>>96490933NL were a shooty army back in 2E, but in 3rd running at the enemy doing your best WE impression is not a bad idea
>>96489879cool cool
>>96489889Correct>>96489881The mix of heads make the brainlet nu-heads look even worse
>>96490882they're clearly mentally retarded. Actual tierlist is something likeSSS = thousand sons, A = salamanders, alpha legion, white scars (non-fluffy), iron hands,B = night lords, ravenguard, world eaters, emperor's children, deathguard C = imperial fists, sons of horus, iron warriors, ultramarinesD = space wolves, blood angels, word bearersF = dark angelsA good player will cross a letter, though nothing crosses the triple S.
>>96490882People taking these clowns serious has made me realise that the majority of HH players are even more retarded than youtubers
>>96487830Surpised UM are also down there.
>>96490933you can just forget the Nightlords reaction exists. The OP part of Nightlords is their gambit. Allows their valuable characters like Precision Sevatar to just sit there slicing apart all their unit's apothecaries and thunderhammers and legionary-banner-bearers and other expensive models risk-free, while if you decline a challenge from either NL character your whole unit is status'd to strike last and their eligible character disgraced for WS and if you accept it, he subs in the cheapest rando model in the unit and all your thunderhammer attacks are wasted hitting some chump a few times.Konrad with WS7 might not do great against a WS8 Lion, so you flip him, Lion's turn is wasted and Konrad melts the WS5 bodyguards then next turn if he challenges Lion to a duel, Konrad has more bodyguards and flags alive and wins support and steals Finishing Blow (or he punks Lion with another tag and then wipes Lion's unit to get the +100% support penalty for solo Lion if he ever loses his unit)A lot of factions like Word Bearers or Ultramarines have mediocre gambits, but great one-use reactions. I'd rather be Night Lords and have an infinite use super-gambit than a good one-use reaction.
>>96491006Well tbf most heresy players dont play the game lmao
>>96491056Oh no, I personally know people who do play and still damn near idolise these youtubers and what they say. Routinely kick their ass in the game, because they seem to blindly believe what their favourite e-celeb said. To then get stun locked when it turns out that it doesn't work. Latest example being the land raider spartan spam list sitting back shooting being copied from some battle reports channel.
>>96491000I think IW deserve to be inS tier because they can sinply tacspam and win by putting so many marines on each point that you can never kill them, and they laugh at panic and phospex. They can force non-games where they win by default. Which is fluffy but boring
>>96491033and if they ever decline to let their super champion be wasted 1v1-ing some basic chump, it's not just their whole unit counts as status and initiative 1 - the nightlords also get +1 WS against a status unit which is too big a penalty to ever allow, so they're Forced to accept the challenge that gimps them. If you use precision units to snipe their non-primarch type challenge-soakers, you can force him to only have an expensive unit to accept with and then troll him. It doesn't matter that his master sargeant has +1WS and +1 thunderhammer attack if it only kills one basic trooper of your choice ever, while your NL master sergeant is killing 2-3 troopers each turn outside every challenge.I think I'd actually move Night Lords to A-tier. They have the best S-tier gambit out of all 18 legions, an A-tier legion trait armywide and B+ equipment. That rounds out to A overall.
>>96491098PARDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOObut yeah ive played people like that in other gw games and theyre always the worst players. They get attached to a singular strategy and loose the second it doesnt work.
>>96491033I feel like if you have sevatar you always take the challenged unless it's siggy/abaddon or a primarch onthe other end. He rapes most characters in challenges
>>96491109>B+ equipmentMore like A or S tier.
>>96491000made by someone who hasnt played many games. not looking at blood angels but the other 2 D tiers are B atleast. SW has an really good rule for fast melee, and word bearers have a strong rule with how much more weight each point of combat res pulls, their reaction is among the best, and their non character units are all good to great
>>96491115>>96491098>watch pardo batrep>termie deathstar in a LR>only leaves the LR by turn 3 or 4 "just in case"
>>96491116it'd depend on the exact composition of the enemy unit. If they have 10-20 Precision6+ Reavers with a lot of twin lightning claws in the unit, Sevatar would accept the challenge and take his chances in a 1v1 safe from precision. If the enemy has zero precision in the unit, I can't imagine staying inside the challenge would be safer than dipping with 0% risk of death and an enemy like Raldoron/Corswain or even a Thunderhammer Praetor forced to only kill 1 single trooper (10-40 points) while Sevatar is killing 2-4x as much stuff.Sevatar wants to avoid getting stabbed until his visions give him 5+++ FNP that's when he can brawl with and devastate the rear end of enemy high commanders.
>>96491108IW trait also doesn't affect the leadership check as a result of losing close combat. A list with a couple of vanguard units would clobber a IW force like that.
>>96491125Mhara Gal is cool, but are their other units any good? The sissy hypno guy seems interesting, and maybe ashen circle can do something with their hand flamers? Gal Vorbak seem shitty
>>96491130If your enemy is running reavers you've already won. Also keep in mind winning the challenge is a desirable outcome, so sure you only lost a chump but they get the challenge bonus. Unless it stops this?
>>96491137ashen circle have some stupid uses like the absolutely dumb number of shots they can throw out on a charge. gal vorbak are fine but are admittedly the worst generic unique for wb. they just need to get into melee first to get their -1 s off. They just need a points decrease and theyll be in a fine spot
>>96491124chainglaives are nothing special. Flat initiative +1S, AP3 breaching only 6+ only dmg1 except on 6+. That's a power sword, the worst power weapon, except with shred6+. Irrelevant against power armor units, which dont really have 2 wounds. And 6+ breach is insufficient against terminators where the shred would be wanted. If it was free swap after buying a powersword you'd be right, but adds yet another +5 points to every model to get a situational chainglaive.Headsman's is a better thunderhammer, trading 1 strength for critical hit 6+ which is better than shred as it also auto-wounds, but it's only allowed on Command (and not Champions or Sergeants/Master-Sergeants). So not on despoilers, not on terminator sarge, command squad sarge, praetorian sarge, anything. It's shit tier when compared to salamanders +1A thunderhammer being on every command, champion or specialist, meaning every master-sarge can buy it.Eskaton was made better now that legacies changed it to not only the contekar champion, but it's still +25 points instead of +15 for a thammer where the shred6+ for dmg3 is entirely niche. NL specialize in having their champions safely avoid dueling 3W models and instead mash 2-3 people from safety. The claw is still -2 initiative and the champs have 1-2 wounds so dueling with an eskaton is rarely the correct choice. Usually it's about ducking out and farming 1-2 wound enemies treating it as an ordinary thunderhammer (but paying 25 instead of 15 for that is kinda trash)S tier is like +1 attack thunderhammers of salamanders.A tier is for things like Ultramarines getting Power Axes with Breaching4+, DA getting greatswords on every master-sarge. B tier is nightlords. Situational, small upgrades, pricy, not good availability exactly where you'd want them. C tier is for blood angels stupid leadership penalty bolted onto average weapons.
Trying to hammer out a list for AL and I am not sure how heavy I should learn into Rewards of Treachery, ie one unit, as a treat, or full on oversized shoes, rainbow wig, red nose with a praetor, delagatus, and two command detachments for 3 units.Right now I am aiming for a base of 3x10 tacs in rhinos and either LC Raptors or Ashen Circle in a Spartan to drive up near an obj the enemy takes and burst out like angry swarm of DMCA violations. Also want to run some Grave Wardens, so I'm not sure what to do. Also anti tank is something I still need to solve for...
>>96491151this is a command misunderstanding. Losing a challenge doesn't make you lose the combat. If your model swung for 10 wounds of damage, but killed a 1 wound despoiler that got subbed in, you score 1 total point of combat resolution for winning the challenge - zero additional points. (it's capped at his maximum wounds characteristic, not wounds inflicted.) The only other bonus is 1 more if a command model is slain in a challenge, but you'll never sub in a command model so never.1 combat resolution point for his 1 total kill using Raldoron is a game loser.Your sevatar kills 2-4 models outside the challenge, scores 2-4 combat resolution points. Then scores +1 more point if his unit outnumbers the enemy (likely since he killed 2-4 instead of 1 guy), then scores +1 more point if your unit has a vexila and opponent doesn't (say Sevatar precisioned the vexila away), or scores +2 for a Legion Standard which his unit still has but he precision'd off the enemy unit.He's fast so him precisioning thunderhammer models before they get to attack can also save 1-2 of your NL lives, which is +1-2 more combat result enemy did not gain.So yeah, "losing" the challenge is often the actual intelligent play and means WINNING the combat and the enemy unit retreating.
>>96491125I like word bearers, but you're entirely full of shit. Their legion trait is 2nd worst of all the legions, only edging out Dark Angels from last place. You know what helps more than +1 combat res? +10 attacks from world eaters trait which earns more than 1 combat res point while doing actual damage. Or -1 strength to all enemy guns so your units aren't always outnumbered from having too many dead models (which is a -1 to combat resolution btw - but also means less fighting models)Lorgar is merely fine. Mhara is merely fine. Gal vorb are sub-average. Zardu is sorta okay (he's expensive and slow and gimmicky, it's a neat gimmick but not above-average for his cost), Argel is above-average, but that's a one-off. Erebus and Kor Phaeron are sub-average.The reaction if it could be used once per turn would be S-tier, as a once per game, it's B-tier. This game is not about people shooting volcano cannons into 2 wound infantry, that's not how 3rd edition is actually won. It's a reaction that might save 2 or 3 troopers from dying, once per game. Whereas having WB entirely pathetic trait means easily far more than 2-3 more troopers dying every single turn. A single failed charge from alpha legion's trait will save a whole 10-man unit and that doesn't even cost a reaction point.
>>96491243Why are you taking jump pack units in a transport?
>>964913141) So they don't get shot off the board while approaching an objective.2) So they can go farther.3) Because I can.
>>96491346Have you considered instead taking a unit that isn't wasting their jump packs in a transport, and instead is better in other aspects? If you still want a clown car, fill it with Suzerains or your favorite flavor of Terminator
>>96491346he's right, that is a very stupid idea.
>>96491361But is it really a clown car if it's not filled with clowns?
>>96491385Take Morlocks then
>>96491392>>96491380>>96491361Given how uncharacteristically calm and rational you all have been, I will seriously consider not being a dumbass and putting Raptors in a Spartan.Do you have any suggestions for anti armor/AV14?
>>96491494NTA but >Laser Rapier >Vindicator (either gun) >Sicaran Venator (less kill more disable, more effective vs gunboats)>Allied/Forge Lord thallax with meltabombs
>>96491494>>96491510What anon said, but also melta kratos if you want to have no friends. Or, since you're in AL and in a clowning mood, you could have a headhunter squad where every single dude takes meltabombs. Make sure to model them with bomb vests. Sicaran Arcus is also worth considering for similar reasons as the Venator
Anyone tried putting Centurion pauldrons on Saturnine Termies replacing the ones you get in the kit yet?
>>96491494anti-14 is a weird spot. Depends if it's a kratos driving backwards shooting you - not worth even attacking as you can't kill it for the cost. If it's a spartan you need to kill sitting on the main objective as a transport, then several chainfists do the trick - or getting a few veteran breachers with las cutters thrown onto it. But that's only if it's up front and reachable (sometimes yes sometimes no - a rhino can drive through an enemy unit if there's open space and then dump a squad out if there's space, but not always a given)Some 14s have a softer side or rear than others, really changes the calculations and lets more normal units hurt them. If they're 14 but a 11 or 12 rear, powerfists actually stand a chance instead of merely chainfists. An ally shadowsword (dmg12 strength 13 blast3") is actually one of the best hunters of specifically AV14 (spartans and kratos) because the 3" blast usually still touches the huge tanks even if you miss. But it's specifically only good against these AV14 things not against any infantry. Useful against that specific friend whose entire crutch is the spartan deathstar and kratos OP-tank every game.Laser rapiers, Vindicators and many options have a bit of an issue that they arent truly scary to a Kratos/Spartan unless stationary, so he can still use it on all parts of the board not visible to that stationary unit.You can bring your own Kratos, it doesn't need to be stationary and has a 24" super-melta and it's stable so its 4 lascannons stay dmg2 while zooming quickly everywhere at 365 pts and laughing off other antitanks.Some of the cheaper options are to find something that inflicts Status with Shock instead of actually killing AV14. A unit with several shock gravs (5+ to immobilize per hit can piss off a Spartan deathstar which is all about movement since the guns do fuckall.Sicaran Venator or Arcos doesn't kill the thing but several Snapshot status chances
>>96491510>>96491524Have either of you tried or seen Chainfist Dreads used for that at all?On paper S11 D4 armourbane looks good but I don't know if it actually functions.
>>96491589Sure, if a dread charges a tank it's gonna mess it up. But it's a big IF.
>>96491591ya, the if part is what I am worried about.
>EC Prime forces your command model to use a power spear, and lets him choose to have +1 WS for either attack or defense purposes (Can't do both)>The generic Paragon of Battle prime gives you an unconditional +1WS, +1BS and +1 attack, and doesn't restrict your weaponSomeone who is good at thinking outside the box help me figure this one out
>>96491589dreads are way too slow to ever be melee AT. Melee AT are things thrown out of a full speed rhino or landraider, or a jump packs with powerfists for melee light-AT (but not a threat to heavy tanks). Pseudo-AT melee is like a footslogger squad having 1 or 2 chainfists for 10-20 guys, where you're not actually going to hunt any tanks you just tell them to not try to drive past you to deploy a unit behind you on an objective. Melee dreads are too expensive, fragile and slow to be either true tankhunters or pseudo-tankhunters. They'd get blown to pieces or melee'd down if the enemy really wanted to go somewhere. (Like a spartan deathstar with a primarch or something would leap out and instantly smash a dreadnought if it tried to block a street, with the tank untouched, transports are king this edition and shooty tanks can stay at long range, or more-while-shooting - and now that if they see the toe of one model they can fire all shots into the unit, they don't need much exposure)
>>96491610the phoenixes got buttfucked in 3rd edition. They're the worst terminators and the worst prime advantage both. They get half of a single point of WS (shit), while losing 1 attack per model (getting 2 attacks instead of 3-4 of other terminators)
Haven't tried 3.0 yet. Can someone explain to me why DA and WB are considered so shit this edition? As they are my main legions. Am I fucked if I play it, and if so, how badly?
>>96491677Anons only call them bad because their traits are very low-impact compared to the other legions'. WB get +1 to combat resolution, and DA get hurt less from all the mental status checks. It's true that they look weak compared to +2 movement for your whole army, or +1A on the charge, etc, but calling them trash is an exaggeration. DA have amazing listbuilding options and the best detachments in the game. WB have some great unit options as well, see >>96491310 >>96491158 . Regardless of legion, it's not gonna be a massive difference, if you charted all the winrates you'd probably see like a +/- 5% WR difference between the best and worst legions, dice rolls are going to have a much bigger impact at the end of the day. And keep in mind 90% of this discussion is theorycrafting by anons who haven't played games with/against those factions in the first place
>>96491610Probably got made first or transposed from HH2.0 and never looked at again?>>96491677DA have a weak legion trait and woobies I am not sure about but I think they just feel underwhelming in general. You won't be fucked but you'll have a lower ceiling compared to some min-maxing jackass.
>>96491610the real advantage is it saves you 10 points on a phoenix spear. Phoenix spear by itself isn't bad. It's +1 initiative unlike all good power weapons (the lance is +1 initiative but does no extra damage, just precision6+)Phoenix spears are in themselves a very good weapon provided you are always the one charging for dmg2. In that case an EC charging is +4 initiative advantage over a dmg2 thunderhammer (+1 spear, +1 legion vs -2 on hammer)If you're not actually going to be dueling with him, it's not a bad purchase. If a WS6 character is inside a WS5 unit, the enemy attacks against the unit's WS5 not your WS6 automatically anyway, so you save 10 points by getting the spear for free instead of choosing Paragon of Battle and having to pay 10 points for the dmg2 spear. Paragon is superior in a duel.It's the phoenix terminators themselves that get gimped by losing 1 attack for no reason. The spear doesn't make up for it, unlike the salamanders getting +1 attack thunderhammers for their 2 attacks.
>>96491713* disregard my optimism. I forgot you DO lose one attack instead of Paragon of Battle, as well as the defensive WS point.GW really likes EC to suffer.
>>96491713But paragon gives you one more attack. And the BS, though that's not very relevant for melee characters. And isn't the spear AP3? how many 2 wound 3+ save models are you charging? It's mostly gonna be mechanicum beasties, so you want something with a bigger str bonus instead, don't you?. And the initiative bonus is irrelevant because you are EC. If you're charging (which is required to make the spear decent, as without it it's dmg1 so basically a power sword) then you're already winning the initiative fight thanks to your trait. And most relevant melee units will have lower init weapons anyways. I guess in the niche case of running the hereticus trait and charging vets, it becomes worth considering?
>>96491677playing DA and WB is just playing the game on hard mode. There's no upside. You're always at a disadvantage. But the greatest DA or WB super-player will beat some random moron like Pardo using an A-tier legion like Alpha Legion incorrectly every game. You just won't beat someone who is just as skilled as you are. It's like starting chess 1 pawn down.
>>96491730it's just shit, I didn't see it got two handicaps instead of one handicap, so even saving 10 points is not worth the double handicap.
>>96491677>DABad legion trait as leadership isn't as relevant and hardly anything has higher instances of Fear anyway. The only graces are a greater variety of detachments that represent the Hexagrammaton this time around, and hoping those extra prime slots and the wider selection of unique units can pull more legwork, but then you got other legions who have more actively useful traits and probably can piece a decent list just fine without that same selection.>WBAnother situational legion trait, no unique detachment and it took legacies for all the unique wargear to come back, just for it to be overpriced. If it weren't for Chaos shenanigans you're almost vanilla, and even then traitors in general have a prime advantage for Chaos shenanigans.
>>96491677also to note - the DA legion trait is pseudo-bravery. They're like TEEHEE there's a chance MAYBE we won't run away! But the cap is like 60% chance to run away, 40% chance to stay.That's not bravery even slightly. If your plan fails 60% of the time, it's not a plan. Chaos units get to buy the Malefic daemon taint on any prime unit to make them have a 0% chance of ever running away. So DA's entire trait has zero combat benefits, and its entire point isn't even done well by DA and is just done well by every chaos faction instead. (Such as Thousand Sons, who get a far more overpowered primarch, overpowered troops, overpowered elites and overpowered weapons and better tarpits and better well - everything)
>>96491783I wouldn't call WB trait situational
>>96491708>>96491710>>96491732>>96491783Guess I'm losing every game. Played about a dozen games of 2.0 so far (easier for our group to play) and lost all of them, though the last couple have been pretty close. My collection is slowly growing an not geared towards bigger games yet. That said, did win initiative every single game. Only two times I went second were when I won the roll off and forced them to go first, then failed to seize. Every single other game I either one the roll off, seized, or did both. Which I find funny.
>>96491810it's entirely situational. It's almost never relevant to have bad stats units fighting against world eaters with +10-20 attacks and be like "hah pretend I killed 1 more model (but also let that model fight I didn't actually kill him)"It's equal to a cheap flag upgrade people might skip.
>>96491822DA aren't bad in 2nd edition, so that's not a good sign.
>>96490352>>96490398Holyshit, what are those models and where do i get them?
Are thunderhawk transporters a thing in heresy? I want one but I can't really find any rule sets for them for some reason despite sites like 1d6 listing them as lord of war options.
>>96491380>>96491361>Spartan deploys on deployment line>moves 10">discorges 13 vanguard 3/4 jumppacks that immediately move another 12">set-up 5">charge d6"
So when can we expect the supplement for fielding Saturnine-only armies to be released?
>>96492135Saturnine-only armies are retarded unfluffy idea that shouldn't exist.So they´ll be announced later today
>>96492063you mean the the thunderhawk transport transport with the 2 rhino transport capacity?I don't remember seeing them in the legacies document so i think youre out of luck anon, but it's an cool model so if you have the chance to get one you should and just poxy it as a regular thunderhawk.
>>96492156Yeah that's the one. I like how utilitarian it is and the idea of just hot dropping vehicles and it buzzing off like a Halo Pelican. Shame about no legacy rules but I suppose it is a niche model so it is not surprising, and as you say it should be an easy proxy for a standard thunderhawk
How do you feel about Blackshield armies being played as specific Legions? I want to build a Blackshield army but BS come and go with every edition, it's extremely annoying and so dependent on the GW's whims I have a hard time to pull the trigger. Would people mind if I field my BS models and tell them my dudes are using [Legion name] rules because they are cooperating with that specific Legion very closely in this particular operation?
>>96492166Anybody fielding one of these deserves to be allowed to use its vehicle cargo capacity. Fuck the stingy rules writers.I'm still mad about legions losing their Malcadors.
>>96492166oh damn, i forgot how undergunned it was.I really hope the current recaster purge doesn't do too much damage in preserving all the niche models forgeworld used to make.
>>96492063Yes.>>96492156I am so fucking done with fucking retards like you spouting bullshit that is provably wrong because YOU FUCKERS REFUSE TO OPEN A FUCKING BOOK AND JUST FUCKING READ
>>96492183it's not a book dummy.
>>96491000>white scars (non-fluffy)what's that ?
>>96492249nta, but since HH1 the WS have been more of a resilient army than a fast one because of their over turned Sagyar Mazan rules. WS does not have anything that really hits hard, so their speed is usually wasted. Meanwhile their 5+ FNP RoW in HH1-2 and fast Catas in HH3 makes them ideal for terminators on foot.Ironically, the DG is the legion with rules that actually fit the WS better (move and shoot without penalties)
>>96492263Yeah, but what would fit them best would be if the rule just let them score objectives with Cavalry units.
>>96492267SoH is also other legion with unfluffly rules. Muh martial superiority nonsense, while RG got the actual trademark speartip decapitation attack rules they should have
>>96492178I'm sorry the what? What's happening to recasters?
>>96492063They were in one of the black books too.
>>9649060630k BA rules may suck ass, but their aesthetics, characters and lore are great, you philistine edge lord.
>>96490606>Sanguinius is also pathetically weakI'm sorry what ?He's top 5 primarchs easily. He won't solo vulkan but that's Vulkan being busted more than Sanguinius being bad.
>>96492339People make way to big of a deal out of legion rules. Especially now that vehicles no longer gain any benefits. I think it's a 40k mindset from refugees and tourists, because that game is all about stacking faction rules for MtG style combos.Most things also have some form of counter play to them, even if it is just hiding behind the now abundant LOS blocking terrain. I bet that with a solid armylist and game plan an army not using any legion rules still can achieve a very balanced win rate against armies with legion rules.
>>96492435Pros: neat update of the RT whirlwindCons: We already have the Scorpius for the same role and the game doesn't need more rhino variants. We're still missing plastic land speeders, for example
>>96492468>doesn't need more rhino variantsNever knew it was possible to be this wrong.
>>96492435>>96492468Agree. What kind of rules niche would it truly fill?Still the model looks great. Clearly a 28mm model. But then again, we thought the same about the SA Baneblade that was featured in the LIgma books some years ago.
>>96492375I think people make a big deal about them because it's basically faction rules and 3-5 special units that give each legion its character. There's named characters too, but a lot of people don't like running them, so it falls on legion rules.
>>96492468Lets get rid of the Scorpius then, since it is a mere nuslop pretender to the crown.
>>96492508Tbh, you are right.Also, bring back Legion Malcadors and Stormblades.
>>96492520
>>96492135Wait, where does it say that Forges of Saturn has rules for Saturnine-only armies? Did I miss a memo?
>>96492506Sometimes I forget most players these days weren't even born yet when the flavour of marine you played only had impact on which colour you had to paint them.
>>96492435Where is this from?
>>96492540Saturnine command squad and saturnine centurion, just needs a saturnine unit in the troop slot
>>96492468>We already have the Scorpius for the same roleThe scorpius has never been the same role as a whirlwind. It's always about less hits with good ap or at least a chance of ap nowWhirlwind is likely to be a large blast indirect fire with ap 4-5
>>96492569The new lego© imperialis book, there's models on the way too. Not for HH yet though.
>>96492435Why did they photoshop a bolter next to the single bolter cupola instead of having one on each one or an actual combi-bolter cupola?
>>96492575Thanks. GW does not seem to know what people want.
>>96492573>just needs a saturnine unit in the troop slotIs it confirmed we are getting one?
>>96492573>just needs a saturnine unit in the troop slotYou don't, just take three centurions for six heavy assault detachments.
>>96492593I know literally no one, aside of The Internet who plays LI. And I've had my greasy coils in many wargames for many years.
>>96492614Maybe ligma has good returns for very little investment? Don't need much room nor resources to cater to the handful of people worldwide that buy ligma, and with GW pricing the profit margin must be huge.
>>96492614Yeah, I have not met anyone in person that playes it either.
>>96492682>>96492614>>96492644It's like ligma is the Dead Internet Theory of wargames.
>>96492614The Ligma section in my LGS is 3x as big as the HH one, with a lot more kit variety. The TOW section is also a lot bigger than the AoS one.You may not see people playing it in the open, but there are people out there buying tons of these minis.
I kinda wonder, since we're still on scanned rulebooks, has GW done an ePUB or any other digital release of its 3rd Edition stuff? While the scans help, since I'm not interested in carrying the fucking bricks on top of my army, I wonder whether there's a cleaned up version out there, or a possibility thereof.
Sun has completely washed this picture out so all of the work on the white is completely gone, but 20 men done and a tank mostly on it's way. Need to do the tracks before I start the washes and oils
>>96492758No, and it doesn't look like GW is planning on publishing digital versions of the 3.0 rulebooks any time soon.
>>96492761Looks real nice, but please fully close that paint pot, it is anxiety inducing.
>startup LGS sells a bunch of items from the Saturnine box dirt cheap>Centurions for 15 bucks a popFucking hell, I might splurge a bit. It's the one really good miniature, cloak be damned, in the new box.
>>96492815Can build it without the cloak if you use a different set of shoulder pads.
>>96492821Hell yeah brother
>>96492790Don't worry anon, it's empty. It's just to hold the tank commander's head
alright heres a list of stuff that can be used in a challenge minigame event I could try to set up, have to add some shit I ideally don't want to because GWs don't like it when 40k is excluded>all 18 primarch models>scoria (has paragon iirc)>transfigured fulgrim>plastic guilliman (use 30k guilliman rules)>plastic lion (use 30k lion rules)>plastic fulgrim (use fulgrim transfigured rules)>plastic angron (use angron transfigured rules)>ka'bandha>bor'bax utterblight>samus>any plastic greater daemon (ruinstorm daemon sovereign with appropriate aetheric dominion)anything else I could add?either with paragon or just "large and a character"
>>96492573Here's your saturnine troop choice.
>>96492821How many boxes come with spare shoulders?
>>96492614I use the ligma models for netEA hh.
>>96492852Scoria is not a Paragon, not that it matters. Valdor is, and should probably be in here.There's quite a range of capability here, I would expect the majority of these guys to get slapped around by anyone who shows up with Demon Angron or a similar member of the WS8 brigade.
>>96492852Soumds good mN
>>96489619I sold my traitor BA because they were super one note to play in 2.0 and 3.0 removed arguably their most iconic playstyle. Just nothing here for BAbros.
>>96492435I would have preferred to get these in the starter box rather than saturnine.
>>96491877First problem, only have about 1500 points of actual heresy models, slowly growing, so have to proxy stuff for bigger games and don't yet currently have any of the Legion unique stuff. Almost half my points are two leviathans and have almost no transports other than a single land raider, so half the army is foot slogging it. Pretty decent force for smaller games, fucking terrible for larger ones. Own 3 SM vehicles total. Second problem, main other heresy player in our group bought about 5-6k Night Lords army, tends to spam their night fighting rite of war. Third problem, rolling like shit. Brought a squad of custodes and a shield captain as allies one game, half of them died to basic bolter fire before getting into combat.
>>96492978DA in 2.0 didn't need their legion uniques, their legion trait can buff standard units to be better at the exact job you want them for.
>>96489508Them getting those in 28mm HH might actually affect if I buy them or don't at epic scale. Let's hope they do get them.
>>96492917Regarding Scoria: could a model use Battlesmith on itself? Would be funny as he's a walker.
Okay so I'm a little drunk right now, but I had a question brewing in my head: is there a point to fielding Legion-specific gimmick units, and do those units just work better in terms of equipment, Legion rule synergy, or special rules that the specific snowflake units have?
>>96493027>>96493027>>96493027
>>96493017Yes, but you can't do it in combat so you have to disengage first
>>96493005I am aware. The problem is I basically don't have enough stuff. My despoilers for example have made it to combat once at almost full strength, I've only got one squad of tacticals so far, and as stated previously, I've got dreads, cause I like em, and they don't really benefit from the Hexagrammaton all that much. Out of the 3 SM vehicles I have, only 2 are usable in heresy. A land raider and a vindicator.Basically, I built my collection like shit.
>>96493076Oh, and my opponents' generally aren't. Night Lord tends to spam a 10 man Kontekar/atramentar squad every game. Raven Guard does the same with his deliverers.
