As a man in a lot of gaming communities, including 40K, Warhammer has a disproportionately high number of problematic fansSimply put, it’s not actually that good at presenting the Imperium as awful. Most of the books follow space marines, so you’re getting a power fantasy, not a deep look into the horrific dehumanisation of the Imperium. Plus the narrative more often than not seems to scramble to try justify the Imperium, which gives further credence to a pro-fascist angle.It was designed to be a mocking satire, but while GW still calls it that, it fails to really execute that.40K in particular nowadays is tonally all over the place. It's simultaneously satire, parody, and a completely straight power fantasy about heroic people doing cool stuff. The Imperial Cult is a vile and hateful religious organization, and also there's an Inquisition... And they are all correct. Like, they burn "witches", but also those witches are real and could doom an entire planet through carelessness. Media literacy is not a thing if 40k fans are just following what the writing puts out
>>96500694>It was designed to be a mocking satireNo it wasn't. Fuck off retard.
Cool bait thread.Everyone and everything in 40k is awful.Most people IRL are awful.Being smart enough to notice merely puts you in a Cassandra-like form of torment, unlike everyone else who are in various other forms of torment.
>>96500702but doesnt the thread support it though? You cant deny early Rogue Trader to now is like night and day. GW always tries to deflect the setting is satire but only in the case an insane chud does something
>>96500694>problematiclol
>>96500702It was. The setting was originally inspired by 2000 AD comics like Judge Dredd, ABC Warriors, Rogue Trooper and Nemesis the Warlock, all of which are satirical.The original idea behind player factions is that Rogue Traders were pirates in all but name they only really got away with stuff because they (pretended) to have a (outdated) warrant of trade/letter of marque and acted on the fringes of the Empire.
>>96500694>As a man in a lot of gaming communities, including 40K, Warhammer has a disproportionately high number of problematic fansSo why do you care? Are YOU personally responsible for what some fuckers take from a game where you regularly pull out some dice to determine if the man in tin can armor can shoot the pew pew bullets at the green tusky cockney boy? Am I? No? Then just stop obsessing over what some neckbearded losers think and keep your own garden clear of the weeds.>>96501072It's satirical, but it's not a direct satire of anything. It's satirical in that it presents the horrible evil brutal dictatorship as the closest thing to a "good guy" faction using obvious two-faced propaganda, but it's also meant to stand on its own two feet as its own ridiculous "cool and edgy" war setting. Satirical is not the same as direct satire. Space Balls is a satire of Star Wars. Someone putting on a helmet and getting wheezy is satirical of one element of Star Wars, but not a full blown satire.
>>96501072Over the 90s they started to move away from mocking satire and made break with it in 1998 with the release of 3rd edition. It may of lasted for 11 years as a satire of bad sci fi but check the novel list. Almost everything came out AFTER 3rd ed.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Warhammer_40,000_novels
>>96500694Go back to /r/eddit, tranny.
Warhammer is about moving miniatures and rolling dice. The reason why it's awful has nothing to do with 'lore' and everything to do with JewDubs putting actual Jews to shame when it comes to greed.
Why are you guys getting so mad when op is basically correct? 40k is played so utterly straight it’s insane to say it’s satire and GW only says it to save face in case a chud goes crazy in public
>>96501400Saying the S word sends them into a blind rage
>>96501400>40k is played so utterly straightDo you suggest it's better to play 40k in a crooked way? Fudge dice and have an "edited" version of your faction's sheets that displays very different stats and bank on your opponent being a newb who doesn't know?
>>96501477>>96501344>Guy keeps saying erm play the game please ignore that the 40k fanbase is utterly fucked in the head most of the time
>>96500694your the problem. Putting to much in something thats just a hobby and projecting your insecurity.
>>96500711>Everyone and everything in 40k is awful.But not as awful as OP at least.You might not believe me, but who would you rather be stuck duct taped to a chair in front of, OP on a soap box or a swarm of tyrranid rippers?
>>96501400No it isn't. Priestley and Chambers were just putting shit they thought it would look or sound cool on 40k.Priestley literally said in his interview with Bifford.
>>96501512>40k fanbase is utterly fucked in the headSecondaries are not fanbase. They're mouthbreating 'tards and probably trannies as well.You see, nigger: Warhammer is a miniature wargame. And an utter dogshit one, but still the most popular, much like D&D 5E is utter dogshit but good luck finding a random game of something else except with your inner circle!The 'lore' of warhammer is literally an afterthought, a vomit, a turd flowing in a river in India. You know, trash literature has always existed, but it had a purpose. Women used to read it, so if you read it too, you had something to talk to women about. Well, women do not read warhammer literature, so the only excuse (and a very weak one) to consoom slop-lit is outta the window.
>>96501620Ohhh brother its this fucking guy
>>96501159>Space Balls is a satire of Star Wars.Space Balls is a parody of Star Wars. A Verhoeven's Starship Troopers film is a satire. A parody is poking fun directly at a piece of media while a satire is more about holding something up to be ridiculed usually for the purposes of social commentary. >>96501223That doesn't mean the setting wasn't designed for satire or that it doesn't sometimes remember it it was. Read a Ciaphas Cain story for an example.>>96501579That sounds true at first until you get to Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau. You don't name an psychic hunting Inquisitor after 2 fictional detectives and a dead sci-fi psychic mentor unless you want Inquisitors to be ridiculed.
>>96501645>I have no arguments and I must postYou will never be a woman. But you surely behave like one.
>>96501697>That sounds true at first until you get to Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau. You don't name an psychic hunting Inquisitor after 2 fictional detectives and a dead sci-fi psychic mentor unless you want Inquisitors to be ridiculed.Nah, this is just a You Problem. You've poisoned your brain with Muh Everything Is Political mentality to the point where you're incapable of recognising the result of a couple of dudes making up a funny name for something just because they can.They didn't call a Lizardman Tiq'tac'to because they intended Lizardmen to be a biting social commentary on neocolonialist attitudes towards the global south, they did it because they thought it was a bit funny. Put down your copy of Das Kapital and go outside.
>>96501734>Put down your copy of Das KapitalEven leftists in the USSR didn't read that Talmud, and they had to pass examinaitons on Marx's failed predictions. Modern Western leftists surely don't.
>>96501697>That sounds true at first until you get to Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau. You don't name an psychic hunting Inquisitor after 2 fictional detectives and a dead sci-fi psychic mentor unless you want Inquisitors to be ridiculed.What was the inherent satire of Duncan-Idaho's name?
>>96501072Copying satire didn't make it satirical.Something that didn't make it into the game doesn't make it satire. Besides the 1980s was surely a bit late to satirise privateering.
>>96500694You missed the designated shitpost thread: >>96487291
>>96501734>Nah, this is just a You Problem. You've poisoned your brain with Muh Everything Is Political mentality to the point where you're incapable of recognising the result of a couple of dudes making up a funny name for something just because they can.Satire doesn't need to be political. Orks being a satire of Football Holligans isn't political commentary it is ridiculing a cultural phenomenon that applies to all sides and parts of the UK. Your ability to only see Satire=Political is where the actual problem lies.>>96501809Is that name meant to be intentionally ridiculous or a multipart reference when combined with his occupation?>>96501935>Besides the 1980s was surely a bit late to satirise privateering.The last English witch hunts were during the same period as the Golden Age of Piracy, but 40k still heavily references those. 40k is built on the idea that even though the Empire has in theory advanced it has inadvertently regressed in many other ways.
>>9650203540k references all sorts of historical events because it was made by wargaming nerds for wargaming nerds in a time when those were necessarily history nerds. That doesn't make it satirical.
>>96502035>Orks being a satire of Football Holligans isn't political commentaryThey're not a satire, they're a parody. A cheeky reference.>Is that name meant to be intentionally ridiculous or a multipart reference when combined with his occupation?...so you don't actually know, huh.
>>96502081>They're not a satire, they're a parody. A cheeky reference.You really do not know what the difference between Satire and Parody is and seem to think that a piece of media being one is better than the other. A Modest Proposal is a Satire while Galaxy Quest is a Parody but both are well regarded pieces of media. Satire and Parody are just as likely to be equally bad.Orks are a satire of Football Hooligans because they take the qualities of Football Hooligans and exaggerate them the point of ridiculousness. >...so you don't actually know, huh.No, I'm being facetious, because I do not care about Dune and you are being hyper-defensive over a setting you like being called something you feel is bad when it is just a descriptive term that can apply to both good and bad media.
>>96502267>A Modest Proposal is a Satire while Galaxy Quest is a ParodyYou're SO close to getting it...
>>96501072some anglo in the late 80s>hahaha those comics are rad what if we make a game where we put all the rad things in it?some anon on 4chan>ACTUALLY it's satire! never take anything seriously unless it's a microaggression!
>>96500694Shut up nigger
>>96500694You sound like a pussy.
>>96500694Warhammer 40K conditions millions of people into accepting lesser evilism, this is why Britain has Starmer as they can say 'but Reform is worse!'So like yeah you have necrons lording over you and farming you for your people for flesh to wear but hey, surely it beats the tyranids who'd not even keep your population around and just devour everything.
>>96500694>problematicI stopped reading at this word, it's your problem faggot, not mine. Go make a YouTube channel or something, so that I can hide your cOnTeNt properly.
>>96500694>gives further credence to a pro-fascist angle.Ave Imperator RexCeterum censeo OP esse delendam
>>96506486based
It's really funny that "it's satire, like judge dredd!" is the main justification when judge dredd constantly tripped over itself justifying that dredd and the judges were indeed a necessary force against the endless tides of criminals and that every obscene abuse of future justice was to be weighed up against everyone being killed by super-cartels. Dredd also constantly gets these little heart of gold issues where he bends the law just a little bit to make it fair for the little guy, or to fight outwardly against corruption, etcAnd then aliens would invade or something that clearly only the judges could handle and suddenly even that didn't matter so much. Dredd's the hero.
>>96506677Veerhoven's idea of satire was strangeLike starship troopers it's like the bugs They do actually suck the brains and do actually want to throw asteroids at us and didn't like say "look you Mormons, you are on an already occupied planet" no they fuckin killed them all.They did that stuff And then they showed they were woke so it's like is he for the woke military dictatorship or against woke? Like they got discipline so good they had co-ed gym rooms. Imagine pitching that idea to the US or UK, JKR would scream blood murder so loud she'd turn inside out!So maybe veerhoven said it's satire to rectify a contradiction in his political beliefs and the stuff he liked to make? And the same can be true of Gamesworkshop or Dredd. Much like how women do the ravishment fantasy to enable sex stuff while remaining pure, socialists and liberals will say the fascist military porn is satire so they can remain ideologically pure in their heads.
>>96506718The soldiers view each other as sexless is meant to be a criticism of their values. As the audience we're supposed to see them treating each other as utilitarian pawns as negative.
>>96506753I mean I guess that works if you come from a family of Nazi collaborators and are against people defending themselves.
>>96506718He also whitewashed Johnny Rico. Or would have done if his film had anything to do with the very short book he didn't read.
>>96500694> As a man in a lot of gaming communities, including 40K, Warhammer has“I’ve seen that Warhammer has” is the correct grammar. Warhammer is not a man participating in online gaming communities.
>>96506677To be fair, they did try changing that a little bit with the democracy storyline, since it showed Dredd at his most compliant with the regime he was born under while constantly internally questioning if he was doing the right thing, and was queued up to culminate in the people voting to give themselves back some degree of control over their lives and chasten Dredd on that. Garth Ennis decided to go with the city voting for the Judges’ rule continuing and with Dredd grimly having his cynicism justified, iirc later admitting he was too much of a fanboy to make such a massive shift in Judge Dredd’s status quo and instead used it to continue dunking on the idea of people voting against their own interests.So I’m saying all that to basically make the claim that kind of dissonance where Dredd is clearly the bad guy but keeps getting his world view that the Judge system has to keep standing despite being terrible backed up is partly borne from the same reasons the Brits dunked on capeshit all the time; fanboys writing the character and being too starstruck to basically write out their childhood stories, and the prog’s refusal to just end or change too drastically.
>>96506677It's dumb because 2000ad Dredd and 40k are two different properties from two different companies.They aren't connected and for good reason GW wanted 40k to NOT be satirical and just like 2000ad because they'd get sued. They wanted to move far away as possible from any 2000ad comparison.
>>96506718i'm convinced he never intended for it to be satire and this was something he ended up saying to cover his ass from communist harassment. Communists seethed hard at the book.The movie was shot in such a romantic classic golden era hollywood way. Basically he got hassled and pressured to say and relented. Ironically GW did the same thing.
>>96501734>You've poisoned your brain with Muh Everything Is Political mentality>says alt-kek while crying about leftists infiltrating 40k
>>96506988Bullshit. Part of the design brief, as Priestly has said in interviews, was to include all their sci-fi miniature ranges. Which included Dredd, which is why Arbites are just judges. They clearly weren't afraid of 2000AD suing them.
>>96507037You are a retard. They sold 2000ad, then they no longer were legally able to sell it and had to make their own thing. Priestly literally said this,40k is NOT 2000ad, fullstop. Its not satirical because 2000ad is, Its a pastiche of things like 2000ad inspiration. Arbiters in 40k which visually are inspired by Dredd are an infinitesimal part of 40k.Even things like Nemesis the Warlock are inverted in 40k.You people just bend the truth and distort what people say to push your agenda.
>Marvel have caped heroes>DC have caped heroes>they are clearly the same company guys!leftists are actually genetically retarded people
>>96500694>problematicOpinion disregarded
The vast bulk of the inspiration of 40k is Dune, LotR, Elric, American Scifi movies like Alien, Predator, Terminator etc and history like the crusades.2000ad inspiration is miniscule and mostly in the form of cheekily lifting visual designs from the comics.
>>96506976>iirc later admitting he was too much of a fanboy to make such a massive shift in Judge Dredd’s status quo >fanboys writing the character and being too starstruck to basically write out their childhood storiesI respect that a lot though. I've seen so many fanboys given control of the writing room and immediately go "okay so superman's gonna marry wonder woman, like he always should have" only to start a fucking writing war where everyone retcons everything the last guy did to put in their own officially licensed fanfiction, forever.I'm pretty able to appreciate someone stepping back and deciding for better or worse, they probably shouldn't mess with it that much.
The Dredd comparison with 40k has always been strange and idiotic to me.If you read Dredd it is often clearly satirical, even referring to current politics and politicians.40k virtually never did this for the longest time, in fact GW used to be infamous for avoiding any comments on real life anything. Of course then twitter happened and "silence is violence" mentality took over their pr department.
>>96502267orks are a parody
>>96507013His fault was perceiving them as seeming fascist, and that was all he thought he needed to display to mock them. He firmly believed you'd see a bunch of unified people smiling and fighting alien invaders with their greatcoats and little "stamp out the bug!" posters and you'd shake your head at how clearly in the wrong they were.If you approach the movie with the idea that dehumanization is worse than total obliteration in the face of uncompromising enemies, then yeah it's all self-evident. It's just that no one else has that perspective lol, even his own scriptwriter didn't really see eye to eye with him on that.
>>96500694>It was designed to be a mocking satireNo it wasn't. They were a D&D figurine company that decided to go at it alone and make a fantasy themed miniatures game, which was successful so they did a sci fi version too.
>>96507183It just doesn't make sense, He reshoots all the characters to be good looking white people and makes them act heroic the entire movie.It's more a homage to golden era epics like hollywood movies about Romans or Hoplites fighting.
>>96507091Other than the Arbites and Hive cities, which were basically just minor fluff for 20 years.
>>96507222Hives cities are different to Mega cities. Still an infinitesimal part of the setting see >>96507044
>>96507044>Its not satirical because 2000ad isNo shit. I claimed no such thing.>Arbiters in 40k which visually are inspired by Dredd"Inspired by" is absurdly generous. Again, they were similar enough to use the same models. The idea that they were not worried about being sued over that but were over the general idea of satire, as if 2000AD owned the whole concept, is absurd.
>>96507265Thats the argument retard, thats the argument you and people are making >similar modelsbecause GW was selling Judge models at one point and had to stop.Then they pick up selling lookalikes for NecromundaThey were worried about being sued, your comments are absurd, You cant just 1:1 copy another companies ip you shit for brained communist.
>>96500694>It was designed to be a mocking satire, but while GW still calls it that, it fails to really execute that.I don't know about>designed to be a mocking satirebut I agree 100% with GW failing to execute that. I tried to read a few of their modern-ish books and DAMN.It's as if the writers/GW want it to be satire, but they're too afraid to make the fascist and whatever parts work. So in their 'satire' every single moment that is supposed to make a point or just be exciting and bad-ass simply ends up bland and safe; which kind of make it useless as satire.
>>96507280That's not the argument I'm making at all. Try actually fucking reading the posts you reply to.>Then they pick up selling lookalikes for NecromundaNecromunda was nearly a decade away.>You cant just 1:1 copy another companies ipYou can if you don't expect it to be an issue. IP law isn't some magic force-field. They didn't think it would be a big deal, and it wasn't.
>>96507081Judge Dredd is one of those series that tends to stick out by the fact it does make massive swerves with both the character and the setting as a whole. Hell, a huge part of what had set up the Democracy storyline was not only due to several tie-ins to previous storylines involving true believers of democracy taking drastic measures to bring it back, but also because two massive storylines took place right before it that really hammered Dredd's rose-tinted glasses about the necessity of the Judges in society, that being Judge Cal's tyrannical reign in "The Day the Law Died" and the Apocalypse War. It was obvious for a while that something in the system had to give sooner or later.I do get it, a writer realizing that he's not writing for himself but for a wider audience is at least better than one writing their fanfiction. But the desire to have characters basically stay as they were when you were a kid is also incredibly over-tempting, like with One More Day. And the latter is what I think happened with Ennis. He was put in charge of a storyline that could have changed the status quo of Dredd irrevocably, but he just clung too much to his vision of Dredd at the time to follow through on that.
>>96500694>Warhammer has a disproportionately high number of problematic fansNice, good to know I'm where I want to be and you have other options to go to.
>>96501697>Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau>unless you want Inquisitors to be ridiculed???the name is just saying he's a space detective with psychic powers. It's not that deep. It's never been that deep.
>>96501697>everyone named Arthur is a satire of Knights of the Round Table>everyone named Michael is a satire of the Bible>everyone named Mohammad is a satire of IslamThe point of Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau is a cheeky joke about modern pop culture being elevated to the realm of myth and legend, such that a name that is, to us the audience, silly and goofy and not at all serious like Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau would actually be a name of honor and prestige in the time of 40K, akin to naming your child after biblical angels or great prophets. tl;dr: It's dramatically ironic comedy, not satire. You're not as smart as you think are, and that's a terrible place to be in life.
