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>>96511507never enough points
>>96511555XL's are about to become an even bigger liability.
I have set up some games to try the play test this weekend. The CASE damage cap of 10 does make all those clan invasion era IS mechs with XL engines feel less gimped to me.
>>96511574There is a possibility XL rules might change.
>>96511593Well, I'm interested to see what they do. I like what these two images are saying.
>>96511574Sounds to me like you can now turn your mech when moving to protect your XL if one side takes a particularly nasty pounding.
>>96511625You can. On the other hand you side torsos are easier to be concentrated on since damage won't get spread to the opposing side. That can be particularly bad against a more mobile opponent. Terrain not being taken into account.
>>96511625Yeah, give and take, offense and defense. The question is if they're going to be in balance or not.
>>96511608Me too, i like that this balances out ammo allot and if I want to run MGs for crit seeking I'm not gonna be penalized for doing so.The only thing I need clearing up on is that if I have case II installed on one of the side torsos that cook an ammo explosion do I only apply the 1 damage to the rear armor?For the side rules this honestly just makes sense in an actually combat scenario and brings up new tactics. Plus mechs with shield arms will see more tactical use.
>>96511645It sounds like CASE II just works like it already does. 1 damage internal, the rest applies to rear armor.
>>96511663How? Damage is reduced to 1.
WELP all Clantech is now UTTERLY FUCKED with the imminent death of XL engines. IS SUBREMEMACY FOREVER!!!
>>96511670I took the "remaining damage" in the bottom bullet to refer to the damage remaining after you apply the minimum as determined by your level of case. Deal 1 to structure, remaining damage is dealt to rear armor. For normal case, you deal 10 to structure, then blow back armor, and no case deals 20 to structure then blows back armor.Unless the bullets are only germane to CASE II, the formatting is a little ambiguous IMO.
>>96511687Implying the IS wasn't always superior.
>>96511574The side torso that the enemy is on is about 14% more likely to be hit since it'll be hit on a 6 and an 8, but the other side is 100% less likely to be hit since it is no longer on the location table at all. If your side is mangled, turn the other side.
>>96511687Clan XLs only have two Criticals in the Side Torsos though.
>>96511670>>96511690Also, the third of the top bullets explicitly mentions it behaves as it normally does, which I just now noticed.
What tech do you think should be standard on battlemechs and cost no weight? For me. It's TSM.
>>96512013CASE after 3035 or so.
>>96512028Its odd how it isnt built into all mechs by this point. There is no downside to having it.
>>96512028Omnimechs all them prebuilt at no weight cost.
>>96511703With the ammo explosion changes I see it as a net increase to survival chances for anything with an XL engine.
>>96511555>>96511573anyone remotely accepting or defending these changes hates battletech. constantly fucking with the rules to push new rulebooks and to focus your game on a shitty unfun tournament scene is just WH40k. Ammo Explosions are sacred and make battletech uniquely fun. hit locations and the grit they bring are core to the game's identity and simplifying the hit location tables is a mortal sin. Total Catalyst Bankruptcy.
>>96512110>constantly push new rulebooksTotal Warfare is seventeen years old
>>96512080These rules propose that hits to the opposite side torsos now will circle back around and hit the torso you are facing instead. This increases the amount of hits on that side torso IMMENSELY. This means that side torso hits rack up WAY faster So any jumper can strip out your side torsos and ruining the XL engines within causing at BARE MINIMUM +10 for nothing AND even potentially wreck your engine WAY WAY faster than you are expecting. Something like 80% of all non IIC mechs for the Clans use XL engines. This chance KILLs THE CLAN TECH.
>>96512213Closing the IS/Clan gap is a good thing.
>>96512150Chainmail hasn't recieved a rules update in decades. It is a complete wargame rules system.Battletech doesn't need to be fucked with.
>>96512069Yeah, but it should be that all mechs have it. You can literally build it into the frame for free. Same as TSM, it's just better and shouldn't cost anything. Hell, it would give mechs a reason to overheat and maybe cut the usage of DHS a good bit.
>>96512213Wouldn't it still be better for the jumpers to aim for RT?
>>96512214Tourist here. Aren't Clan rules of engagement supposed to balance out the technological gap? Not to mention the fact that IS factions can field salvaged clan tech and/or new tech based on said salvage depending on where in the timeline you're at. Also BV.
>>96512240Clan rules of engagement go out the window if the opponent violates them or they just don't like them, and 1v1s highly favor the clan side.
>>96512263Are there not rules that incur a penalty on playing clan forces that ignore RoE? In the case of 1v1, is BV not relevant or just not really viable to enforce?
>>96512213>Immensely13.88%I'd rather shove a jumper up your ass and hit your paper thin rear armor instead.
Thought you'd all like some advance copies.
Pg3
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And 5
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>>96512299>not a campaign gameWhat would be the best way to run a BT campaign? Just add money and salvage rules?
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Pg 8
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10
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12/12. I can put up the AGoAC changes later.
>>96512347>I see no harm in giving people what they want if the result is unique, interesting gameplay and doesn't unbalance the weaponMore of this mentality please.
>>96512240Clans pretty regularly stop extending batchals to spheroids after the clan invasion.
>>96512347Sniktbub going standard excites me.
>>96512299>deleting MJBCunt.
>>96512387Yeah, that makes sense. They couldn't be THAT stupid, after all. My question was more about Zellbrigen, but I imagine the same applies.
>>96512416Remember that this is just removing them from the BMM, not the game entirely, so MJB will just be moving to whatever new TacOps or TechManual is instead of having their rules in the BMM
>>96512240Artillery is what closes the technological gap. That and the absolute refusal for any clanner to respect logistics until Alaric S-D S-D Ward came around.
>>96512362Most of these changes make sense to me, I like the shields being per-phase and protecting you from the consequences of your own charge. Also being able to have two of them.I do wish they'd fix mech mortars though. It doesn't need drastic changes, just a couple tweaks.
Remove PSR for mocing and firing Heavy gauss. Remove jamming rule for ulra AC. Is cgl allowed to be based?
>>96512438The logistics stuff is pure fluff. We are told about ammo and rarely omnimech shortages but well into the dark age clanners are sending a single cluster after a regiment or even RCT(!) and winning, then doing the same thing again a month later. I can't think of a time where they stomp an initial force but get mopped up easily by followups because they ran out of spare armor.
>>96512299I have to say these changes are remarkably level headed and nice. Combined with the ammo explosion changes ballisticsfags gonna be eating good.
>>96512347Ok I'm gonna be honest here. I was fully expecting CGL to completely shut the bed, but I'm actually pretty positive to most of these rules changes, and I'm a big fan of the improvements to melee in particular.
>>96512571I'm pretty iffy on the ECM and the C3 rulings regarding line of sight for both.
>>96512571>>96512580It's important to remember that Xotl is in charge of this and he is a /btg/ user.
So after all the doomposting it turns out the changes are not bad at all.
Can't wait to see the "Missions" section of the playtest docs. I bet they'll be really cool.
>>96512592>and he is a /btg/ user.Maybe he was years ago, i don't he is now.
>>96512571Same. It's weird seeing CGL NOT shit the bed.I'm not against the C3 changes, but I am wondering why they didn't just make ECCM a core rule, given that there's a fair number of C3 mechs that carry ECM for ECCM.
>>96512668>>96511511 ?
>>96512580The ECM one is the big head scratcher. I understand drawing LoS through it was a pain, but having Artemis/Streak systems being functionally immune to ECM feels really bad. It should at minimum protect the unit that has the ECM system.
>Comstar stops the clans and lost most of their forces doing so>The clans then fucked themselves up even more in a civil war>Then the home clans cut themselves off from the IS clans>Then the Blake thing happened>IS had a long time to close the tech gap and...more or less kid of did.>Then Clan Wolf decided it wanted to start the clan invasion again, despite them being against it in the first place>They won of course and the birds helped>Despite the IS still outnumbering the clans by a fuckton and were better off tech wise than back during the first invasion. How!? Did everyone just go full retard? The Clans shouldn't be much of a threat, their numbers are too low and their tech isnt that ahead of anything the IS fields these days.
>>96512684It was intended to still. Bad wording on the proposal.
>>96512691You are neglecting that "starting the invasion again" was only against one country, not multiple. No one else gave a shit about the republic enough to want to save it.
>>96512697That's a relief. Anyways, AGoAC coming up!
>>96512418Clanners occasionally choose a total war approach to their opponents if they deem them unworthy, especially the hardcore psycho mongol doctrine jade falcons in the dark age.
2
>>96512703>Let's give the clans more territory and resources! >This won't fuck us over later, no sir!
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>>96512717Like it matters. Plot just happens regardless of whether it is reasonable for it to happen.
>>96512691>IS had a long time to close the tech gap and...more or less kid of didThey didn't, no. Most IS mechs even by ilclan barely use clantech, many don't use clantech at all.
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So are we just lucky that Xotl is dumping this or are other Btech groups getting access to this as well?
>>96512739AGOAC leaked a while ago (early enough that some of this stuff has already been talked about in demo chat as being modified based on feedback, like initiative and maybe floating crits). I think gear is leaking for the first time.
7>>96512739Bruh, I'm not Xotl. Just a guy who knows some people on the CDT.
>>96512734Well, yeah, they use midway point weapons.
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9/9As a note, they're already talking about changing a few thinga from AGoAC
>>96512764You either have star league tech or sidegrades to star league tech. The "advanced" technology the IS develops on its own after rediscovering lostech is not at all a match for clantech.
>>96512739This got shared with the demo team last week.
>>96512773which is good: actual playtesting vs ram it through
>>96512340Curious what they're gonna end up doing with Apollo FCS, just keep it at an additional -1 TN -1 cluster, or just make it Artemis but for MRMs, or something entirely different.
>>96512806Xotl said he's gonna wait till they settle on something for MRMs before they work on Apollo. No point in making something for MRMs that they have to give up on if they change MRMs.
>>96512788Going from Succ Wars stuff to Star League stuff makes an enormous difference. The elite units being almost entirely clan omnimechs instead of like 20% star league stuff is equally huge.
>>96512746I actually like that regarding case.Limiting the damage to 10 for case and having it in an XL engine location would actively make those mechs far more usable otherwise. Plus I won't have to scoff at seeing case being in my side torsos for those with XL engines.
>>96512847The inner sphere never being able to standardize clantech and never inventing technology on par with it means the inner sphere never even comes close to closing the technology gap.Every inner sphere state is still at a significant tactical disadvantage due to being technologically backwards a century after the clan invasion.
desu, while some stuff needs some streamline, most of this reeks of "newfags find this hard to understand, make it easier and closer to the videogames". Not only the gear rules, but all the leaked proposals so far.
>>96512870A Heavy PPC or Gauss rifle at 500 meters are just as damaging and accurate as their clan equivalents. Being several tons heavier is relevant but not the same kind of overwhelming disadvantage as trying to fight a Stormcrow Prime with a Shadow Hawk 2H.
So how much will these rules invalidate all the other rulebooks like the tech manual and campaign operations?
>>96512964For most players? They wontCant remember the last time any of the nearby FLGS's held any Catalyst sanctioned events.
>>96512912>a heavy PPCLaughable. A weapon worse in almost every every way except sheer damage.>gauss rifleOne of the few IS weapons even close to being as good as a clan weapon and I'm sure you'll have noticed most IS mechs aren't carrying a bunch of gauss rifles.Not to mention the advantage of clan ferro fibrous and endo steel still being almost exclusive to the clans and clan CASE basically being free equipment.It's ridiculous to claim the IS ever caught up to clantech, IS tech still sucks.
It is ridiculous that the IS STILL hasn't caught up the Clantech after fucking 100 years
>>96512912The problem with the Heavy PPC os that the Clan version has more range, weighs significantly less, and has no minimum range. In no way is it comparable to the Clan ERPPC, even inside 500m.
>>96513023Don't worry. Once Clan Wolf takes over the the entire IS there will be only clan tech.
>>96513063Motherfucker you just fucking compared them. Inside 500 one is heavier, end of differences. I am not disputing that strictly IS tech is worse than Clan stuff I'm disputing that the disparity is the same in 3150 as 3050.
So reading all the changes I cant find much of anything to complain about in the equipment rules and the AGoAC rules changes feel like the kind of thing FASA would do every couple years just delayed and stacked up because its been 17 years since the rules have been touched.I do think removing the facing after fall table is probably too much though. even if side facings are simplified falling on your left or right side would matter if you are more than 55 tons.
>>96513123>Inside 500 one is heavier, end of differencesThe heavy PPC is twice as bulky and the ERPPC has no minimum range.Minimum range is important if you're proposing a close range fight with a combatant that probably has more speed to dictate the range of engagement in the first place.
>>96512309>armourBrits got ahold of Battletech. We're fucked.
>>96512637>I bet they'll be really cool.Oh REALLY now?!
It is ridiculous the the CLANS STILL haven't surpassed Clantech after a 100 fucking years!
The Macross vs your standard SLDF Fleet. How does it go?
>>96513180Who is writing the episode?
>>96513167>the CLANS STILL haven't surpassed Clantech after a 100 fucking yearsIt's been over 300 years by ilclan.
>>96513204George lucas.
>>96513214Macross. They got plucky teen aged pilots.
>>96513123It is, though mixed tech designs have closed the gap a bit. The problem is Clantech at base deals more damage, has more range, weighs less, and takes up less space. Since every mech has the same amount of crit slots and free space (based on tonnage), that means Clan tech is nearly always more efficient. There are some exceptions like the Plasma Rifle, but the Clans in 3150 have Streak LRMs, clan-spec Rotary ACs' HAGs, FerroLam Armor, and a whole host of other new tricks while the Inner Sphere is still trying to figure out the Clans' old stuff.
>>96513227I'm sure the Macross Cannon would be more of a factor than the Valks. Unless they are Super Valks and loaded with reaction weapons.
>>96513228>The problem is Clantech at base deals more damage, has more range, weighs less, and takes up less space.Now you know why it's disgusting!
>>96513023All the great houses can produce "clan" tech in decent amounts. Luthien Armor Works builds clan XL engines, ERPPCs, pulse lasers, and armor.
What Btech faction is the most wholesome, baseball loving, apple pie eating, goes to church every sunday kinda dudes?
>>96513265House Kurita
>>96513228This reply was so stupid and illiterate it made me remember there is at least one person who shits up these threads by taking an indefensible position and then arguing about it until the thread dies.
>>96513299It took you this long to notice? He has a couple other lines out that no one bit on.
