Tower defense editionPrevious thread:>>96570495>Legacies:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Thread Question:What is the silliest thing you want to do with a consul's unique detachment?
>>96579357I do not like the new detachments system.
Do Phraetus' Warpfire Mantles trigger off of overload wounds? Because that would be funni
>>96579379There's nothing terribly wrong with it and prime slots are a generally cool idea.
>>96579403if anything they're underutilized
>>96579387Yes. Their eternal warrior also reduces the damage of disintegrator overloads.
>>96579387If overload checks are considered shooting attacks, then yes.
>>96579410>Teleport in>Start blasting>misses also cause extra AP2 hits on a failed toughness checkBeautiful
Right Pauldron: What markings do you guys like/ dislike to see there?>TQI'm waiting for a Heavy Assault detatchment to get dropped that forgets Angel's Tears can be fielded from it.
Dreadnoughts need to be WS5/BS5 or need a slight points drop. They were over nerfed just a tad. Use Old World WS chart. Bring back 1.0 scoring.
>Word Bearers finally get a terminator unit>It fucksI'm happy for you guysAnd you, Alpha Legion
>>96579437>Right Pauldron: What markings do you guys like/ dislike to see there?Legion symbols except for MKVI in which case bonding studs.
>>96579439git gud
>>96579433>explode on a 5+ instead of a 6+
>>96579456There's no downsides
>>96579444Aren't the studs on the left Pauldron for Mk6?
>spend 1/3 my points on characterssurely nothing bad will come of thisI'll report back tomorrow after I get my shit kicked in
>>96579466The machine god wouldn't have it any other way
>>96579466Have fun!
>>96579439>WS5/BS5For double melee or double gun accordingly, yes. WS4 is a joke now. Knights that would just lawnmower marines only hit on a 4+? Are marines doing backflips over massive chainsaws?
We have any word on when we can expect to get nullifiers back?>>96579439Them not coming in talons besides the one allowed by the weird tech priest was their main nerf. They're a major opportunity cost now.
>>96579479Bro TITANS are base BS3.
>>96579357Such a weak display by the Master of Signals. AL can run 50+ tarantulas.
>Vulkan deployed Nearly All™ of his saturnine terminator assets to Isstvan V either on the ground or on the ships but was still able to dump companies of the armor on the ground>Horus had "several companies" of saturnine terminators>Thousand Sons only had some of the test models but still fielded them enough to have developed special psychic practice for them>Raven Guard Deliverers were the only ones who really used the stuff in that legionSo how much would a full legion really have access to? A thousand suits at best? A couple hundred at worst?
Think these could work for saturnine heads with the top ring popped off? I'm pondering doing a theme for my Phraetus where only the disciple is actually alive and fully in tune with the daemon is his armor, all the other Anointed are his dead brothers whose bodies are puppeted by the demons inside and bound to the will of the disciple as instruments of his Vengeance
>>96579518Sigh. As I wait for the post timer to drop, I'm realizing another thing that could work with this is the janky poses you can put saturnine into could work well with the puppeteer theme
>>96579531Are your terminators going to be painted brightly? Maybe just the standard helmets with the lenses painted black would be subtle enough. Those are just going to look like Ghost Rider.
Play Titanicus
>>96579539I wouldn't say my color scheme is super bright, and my saturnine are going to have more black bits just because they have more armor surface area to differentiate. Maybe I go with either spare gal vorbak heads or normal saturnine heads surrounded by sculpted fire, or even replace the heads with sculpted fire instead?
>>96579572If you're committed to the fire head maybe see if that printer has skulls with closed mouths? Open mouths are a little aggressive for dead people.
I'm already over painting the under-side of jet bikes, and I've only got I think 5 done. Still at least 4 more to go.
>>96579479>>96579482Make the walker detachment 3 and have contemptor be WS5 and deredeo BS5. Leviathan is WS5 or BS5 if it has two gun or two CC weapons. Saturnine dread is BS5. Same points
>>96579585Damn, they probably don't, because I just realized even the ones in the picture are just the same helmet mirrored
>>96579357It's not exactly silly, but I'd like to do an entire World Eaters allied detachment that is just a Prime Champ and his champ detachment. Him and a midsized praetorian squad in a land raider, done. Not sure whether to make him Tartaros or Cataphractii, since his Chosen can't take boarding shields so I'd eat Heavy for no penalty, but the 4++ is nice.
Given the allies matrix is kill, are there rules concerning if transports, characters, etc can be interchangeable between allies or not? I'm just poring through the PDF currently for something of the sort.
>>96579508Salamanders where the ones with te msot and deploying all their termies adds up to 100 units. So most legions would have less
>>96579874Characters can join units from different factions but suffer a penalty of -1 LD and CL. Only units that share a faction trait with a transport can board it. No innate barrier to targeting allies with abilities, but many faction specific abilities have one built in to target only units of exclusively their trait
>>96579585>>96579609Ahh, I did find these, and if I find two sets avoids the open mouth issue
how many tactical marines is too many tactical marines?
>>96579419>>96579433overload checks are labeled Misfires, so I think we are out of luck on that front, boys.
>>96579405True, much prefer something like Atramentar being a prime slot upgrade over getting another ws5 terminator command squad
>>96579907I see, a fair compromise to challenge gaming the system a bit.
>7 pages about the War of Bitter IronI want this. Give it to me.
>this weeks pre-orders ship on my birthday Neat
Fucking hate it here
Goonhammer confirms that the Dark Angels used Saturnine suits for their Naufragia squads, this shit could still happen.
>>96580324We know for a fact that there won't be any Saturnine weapons kits, so naufragia are literally just going to be Saturnine terminators with a potentially useless special rule bolted on. No phosphex launchers
>time to be sutured into your robot, shinji
>>96580324The pamphlet only has profiles for three units so it makes no difference. And two of those units should have been included in the libers anyway. The writers can allude to however many Saturnine variants, all it does is underscore how subpar this release is.
>>96580102
How do the bolters work?
>>96579547i find astartes far more compelling than god machines and celebration of them is properly conducted at ~32mm scale where individual infantry models can really be lavished with love>>96580365non-euclidian feeding mechanism pls understand
>>96580331>No phosphex launchersI hold out hope for them telling us to convert it out of the Plasma Bombard
>>96580365They don't.
>>96580365It's a gun, guns aren't real, so they're not bound by real world physics and mechanics.
>>96580379
>>96580365The same way Space Wolves use the sights on theirs
>>96580384that is wildly inoffensive in comparison ong
>>96580375Something like a plus-sized version of the intermeptors' plasma incinerator could be fun.
>>96580379You jest but this is what the Br*tish actually believe
>>96580387
>>96580160>Squad PkharmetWhy did Vulkan have some 1ksons Loyalists with him?
>>96580404He liked the way they burned.
>>96580408too soon
>>96580414Too soon or not, they are a flaming hot commodity.
Why is there no Phraetus Anointed Dreadnought? Did they not have any spare daemons big enough to fill it out good?
>>96580365the receiver continues through the drum magazine, which has a reduced capacity as a result.
>>96580432You'll need to wait for the Forges of Saturn II, coming out after 4.0 drops in late 2026, anon
>>96580437>Alpha Legion is cut offDid you plan this anon?
>>96580438legio mortis mentioned ! (!!!)
Working on anything this weekend lads?
>>96580442>Nufag secondaries cheering about GW adding Titans to the marines only battle it was in loreThis is why gatekeeping is needed
>>96580448Basecoating a Dracosan. Finally a weekend to myself so I'll finish weathering my Rhino, and the Leman Russ I keep asking for weathering advice on
>>96580450???
>>96580450The horus heresy was invented to give a reason for titans to fight each other
>>96580440>the 1st Legion boasted an almost unsurpassed cache of original Phoebian-issue Saturnine plate. As such, the Dark Angels were still capable of fielding Saturnine armour - however sparingly - by the eve of the Horus HeresyNUMBER ONENUMBER ONENUMBER ONE
>>96580457>>96580458Read the Black Library Books nufag, FW has been shoving their shitty OC Solar Auxilia and Titans into conflicts they weren't canonically in since the start because they're retarded Guardfags.Compare what they said was at Signus to what was canonically there retards, hint, it didn't include Custodes
>>96580461uh-huh
>>96580463HH existed before the black books sweetie
>>96580461What happens if he slips and falls during that dance?
>>96580463>Black Library Books>canonical gospel as opposed to outright best-guess fiction about the events even in the context of the settinglmao
>>96580469Yes it did, as a good Black Library series before FW failed to adapt it correctly into the black books. Glad you agree.
>>96580443>Word Bearers being dickheels>Iron Hands kicking ass and being crazy assholesLove to see it.
>>96580448I'm the emperors most silent soldier.
>>96580486>Valdor, I'm trying to sneak around, but I'm dummy thicc, and the clap of my asscheeks keeps alerting the World Eaters!
>>96580495><<<WHAT IS THAT NOISE I DON'T SEE ANYTHING>>>
>>96580461First and best.
>>96579357How's this look for a World Eaters list>Crusade Detachment - 1 365 pts>Saturnine Praetor w/ Teleportation Transponder - 260 pts>Champion (Chain-Bonded) - 105 pts>Herald (Chain-Bonded) - 100 pts>3x Despoiler Squad (1 has Combat Veterans) w/ 10 additional Legionaries, 15 Chainaxes, 4 Power Axes, 4 Hand Flamers, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox and Barb-hook Lash on the Sergeant - 300 pts>Apothecarion Delegation - 630 pts>5x Apothecary (1 has Logistical Benefit) - 30 pts>Saturnine Terminator Command Squad w/ 4 additional Chosen, 6 Saturnine War Axes and Legion Standard - 480 pts>Tactical Support Detachment - 480 pts>2x Heavy Support Squad w/ 5 additional Legionaries, 10 Heavy Bolters, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox and Barb-hook Lash on the Sergeant - 240 pts>Armoured Support Detachment - 520 pts>4x Predator w/ Magna-Melta Cannon, Heavy Flamer Sponsons, Havoc Launcher and Dozer Blade - 130 ptsEach squad sans the Terminators gets an Apothecary while the Champion + Herald go together in the Combat Veterans Despoilers and the Praetor + Terminators deep strike
>>96580528See, the Despoilers, Champion and Herald are relatively fluffy, but with the random Heavy Support Squads and Melta Predator spam it's way too obvious you're going full WAAC.Try making a list that fits the units your legion canonically uses instead next time.
>>96579508Well the NL managed to get an entire company (so at least 100) outfitted by bribing a single Dark Mechanicum Forge World so...
>>96580537>eaters at no point utilized predators or heavy support teams
>>96580537>>96580544Not just that, anon needs to go look up their 2.0 Rites of War and google "Teeth of Khorne".Hint: That's an incredibly fluffy list anon is making if you know the actual WE fluff
>>96580544Yes retard, they're the legion on screaming bersekers>>965805541d4chan fan lore and 2.0 DEI tier writing need not apply secondary
>>96580557>Yes retard, they're the legion on screaming bersekersAnon, I...
>>96580557oh boy typecasting them all as the degenerated wider shape some or even most had adopted in the direct following of angron and towards the siege of terra i'm sure that's completely accurate and there were no exceptions or differences in texture and shape anywherepls man
anyone got the leaks for the anointed conclave?
>>96580568>Nooo, you can't say muh duuudes aren't just WAAC and unfluffyPlay another legion if you want to run a tank army
>>96580572>anointed conclaveYou mean the newest WB "shove a daemon in it" unit?
>>96580573>pro-flanderizationCringe, gay, and homosexually queer of you.
>>96580573eater tanks are dank tho
>>96580435But that'd be only 18 months after 3.0 dropped
>>96580577>>96580579Go back to your containment thread secondaries >>96580065
>>96580584i'm content to continue beholding your screeching
>>96580528Not the other retard, but lorewise how do WE apothecaries even work without murdering their patients in a spray of blood (either intentionally or by accident)?
>>96580589apothecaries embedded into the later headless chicken despoiler hordes effectively just stopped doing their jobs eventually by virtue of equipment attrition or ceasing to care
>>96580584Now I'm going to buy some beakies and paint them up as Iron Warriors, you fucking loser.
>>96580589>>96580595I thought it was the opposite, they were basically the tard wranglers for Inductii/Berzerkers and used alchemy bullshit to overcharge the nails even further when they wanted to?
>>96580600that might well have played out as such at points (and is laid out to have in the force org rules concerning the sons of bodt in 3.0) but in the fully degenerated masses as took shape in the ramparts of the palace there was zero control exerted whatsoever eventually and pretty much every last one of the in the vicinity got swept up in the tsunami to break against and tear down the next hardpoint or whatnoti do not get the sense there was any governance possible let alone desired in said final shape they tended towards adopting. they naturally coalesced and followed the wider whim of the war at hand without any regard eventually given to considerations besides one's next getting drenched in blood and gore
If you could create a single Decurion option for your legion, what would it be anons?IF and SoH need not apply
>>96580576THank you sir, do we know what the paired fist do, is it just + 1 damage like the others
>>96580620+1 attack
>>96580614xii dude that hops out of the hatch and does some melee before scurrying back in and giggling like a little girl
>>96580624oh nice, was hoping it was +1 A, so 4 attacks each plus ap3 flamer for 5 points. yeah boyyyyy
>>96576979>NTA, but everyone can score in 3.0, just units with line do it better, so centurion command squads actually are good objective holders and in a veteran themed army they and vet tactical squads will probably be your main squads to do so, since all of the other veteran squads have vanguard>Looks at his full mounted White Scar army.That statment is not totaly true, online friend.
>>96580630>full mounted White Scar armyYou're not this anon, are you? >>96562493
>>96580614Decurions are sergeants in my homebrew but actual rules for the renissum caedere would be a cool sergeant upgrade.
>>96580663Why exactly are you using the Roman term for cavalry officers for Sergeants anon?
>>96580668Why Invictarus Suzerains aren't called Lictors?
>>96580540The Ulan Huda issue was noted to be of inferior make and not true Saturnine armor.
So what the fuck is this disengage horseshit? Charged a heirach into a block of solar auxilia, they passed their ld check to not route and then just stepped away so I could be shot by volkite.It seems super hard to lock down units in combat now.
>>96580676I mean more there's a perfectly adequate name there (Decanus) if you want to go full Romeaboo
>>96580676Lictors are nids. GW don't want brand confusion.
Would the bigger guys, or at least parts of them, work to represent Thousand Sons affected by the Flesh-change?Afaik they're just Chaos Spawn, I've never seen a single piece of Horus Heresy artwork depicting what they actually look like.Thoughts?
>>96580668because the term literally means 'every 10' as in an officer per 10 men. Cavalry happened to be organised into minimum groups of around 10 in Marian legions so that is clearly the closest unit to a squad in the heresy. The bellicosa principium is also not a direct translation so it makes sense they'd use the closest equivalent they could find to their own organisation needs.
>>96580708Anon...you realise Decanus also means that, right?
>>96580015no
pretty goddamn passable as far as i'm concernedlast in a set of six, still needs his meltagun slapped somewhere though. rest are all plastic and chynaresin medleys similar to the apothecary section
>>96580466did you make pic related?
>>96580730yeah it's in gud fun though <3i genuinely like all of the legions on some level or another
>>96580704Sure, add a TS shoulder pad as an easter egg.
>>96580704They'd need some shattered parts of power armour stuck to them I think
>>96580713a Decanus isn't an officer
>>96580741Neither is a Sergeant
>>96580735But you didn't make the OG pic? That is just an edit?
>>96580750correct
>>96580704Mixing these with Possessed or Gal vorbak maybe
>>96580747a sergeant in HH is clearly an officer
>>96580752Ok meet me at The Rock tonight, password is: Pride is Our Armour.
>>96580769Just as much as a historical Decanus/Centurion was anon
>>96580773u got it bb
>>96580777no, a sergeant in the heresy is a sergeant in the modern sense of a senior NCO, the closest thing to a Decanus is a corporal.
>>96580769Wrong, not all "sergeants" are officers, only junior centurions with crests. The game just doesn't acknowledge the difference
Any more spoilers?
You don’t know the things I dream. No one does, no one ever cared enough to find out.
>>96579547Maybe one day I’ll be able to :(
>>96580812reign of love
yeah angron by all indications would have been a paragon of humanity and brotherhood comparable to the likes of sanguinius had fate not so utterly conspired against him thotragic shit
>>96580461>almost unsurpassedSurpassed by who?
>>96580800marine sergeants are officers because they are essentially every rank between corporal and captain in terms of command, which by today's standards means they are officers.
>>96580160>>96580443>As the Phraetus had spent their lives, the time bought allowed a quintet of the Word Bearers Stormbirds to take flight, all pretence of ladening their holds any further abandoned in the face of sudden defeat. Of the others — four aircraft in total — two had been overrun by Iron Hands ground forces before they could lift off and two had succumbed to the predations of the Medusans’ Deredeos as their void shields had failed mid-flight, their wrecks joining the burning expanse below. Above, in orbit, the Exegesis — having sped into teleport range — made preparations for a race to the nearest Mandeville point, the surviving Stormbirds climbing hard to reach its launch bays.>This escape it would achieve alongside a handful of provender barges, with all other Traitor void craft not yet fled falling victim to capture or annihilation as the Memorius and its fleet swept through Milhand’s orbit. The campaign which would follow — the Sundering of Milhand— would be brief and bloody, for few viable military hosts had been left upon the Forge World, already much diminished from years under the Word Bearers’ yoke. This slaughter would not be the end of Milhand’s suffering however, for it would be shackled to the purposes of the Xᵗʰ Legion just as it had the XVIIᵗʰ, though where death was a reprieve from enslavement under the Word Bearers’ cruelty, the dead of Milhand would be afforded no such luxury by their new, Medusan, overlords.IH fucking shit up is always rad. And there were six more pages of this? More, please.
>>96580868the HH is not 40k.In 30k, there were more ranks and roles, and "sergeants" in the game range from basic bitch NCOs leading a squad with a stripe in their helmet, to full centurions without a command.It's just streamlined for gameplay reasons, and because it's easier to see squad leaders with a helmet crest from a distance
>>96580901sure, hence why 'Decurion' is more appropriate than 'Decanus' to indicate a Legion sergeant. Also the principia belicosa is not as I mentioned a direct copy of pricipate or republic legions and usually the titles chosen are the ones with the most 'importance', like 'Praetor' actually being far more significant than a Legatus which also fits with them being superhuman elites.
>>96580927you're a dic-anus lmao go eat old underpant nerd
>>96580938would pai mei get sorting hat'd into the scars?
>>96580927Decuriones were cavalry officers and Decanus the equivalent of a infantry corporal-sergeant. So Decanus is more accurate for HH sergeants without helmet crests.Praetors, Legatus, consuls, etc were all centurion variants with different seniority or roles.
>>96580844>comparable to the likes of sanguiniusSanguinius was an incredibly brutal warlord who annihilated entire civilizations for the crime of not immediately submitting to a repressive government that he had personally demanded that his own people should never be subjected to. Angron would still be one of the worst people in all of human history until that point if he were as good as Sanguinius, because even if Sanguinius was the best of the siblings, he still was just that bad. They're not good people.
>>96579508>>965805401000 suits for the Sallies was my original estimate, but the big map in the book indicates that the Ignis Sector is actually the entire primarily-Salamanders section of the battlefield, not an arbitrary fraction. There's exactly 100 deployed here, "several more covenants" ordered to withdraw without deploying and a few more squads that didn't make it to the battle in the first place, and that seems to be basically a complete tally, so I'd be surprised if the total number of suits in service with the Salamanders broke 200 at time of battle. The force org here has two praetors with 60 and 40 suits under their command respectively, so "a Saturnine company" probably isn't a hundred suits of Saturnine, in the same way that a tank company isn't a hundred tanks. Low hundreds in any legion at most, I'd say, especially if the Night Lords getting hold of a few dozen suits from Darkmech Unicron is a notable event.
has new recruit updated yet
>>96580979>They're not good people.you're rightthey're the best people
>>96580997Book's not even out yet. They're still barely catching up to the Legacy PDF
>>96579547Working on it, anon, still trying to run down all the books while I decide what legion I want to go with. Legio Astorum Ruptura maniple seems immediately attractive since I very much like both Reavers and Warbringers, but I admit I'm also tempted by darkmech stalker support and the Astorum blue and yellow is not my favourite scheme.
>Nostramo was a night worldBro you have electric lighting and you spend all your life indoors anyway how is this even a big deal to you?
>>96581106it is likely that 95%+ of all electric lights on nostramo were smashed and broken and useless at the time of curze's coming
>>96580997>Constantly have to help ppl out because the list building app confuses them even moreIt's so garbage, no clue why people use that trash.
>Enjoy painting my Leman Russ>Comes out beautifully>Hate painting my Dracosan>Comes out really sloppyWeird how some models just don't get your mojo flowing for no reason
>>96580680Why is a hierarch losing combat to mortals?
>>96581308Anon meant the solar auxilia disengaged, which resulted in his hierarch being shot.
>>96580361Volkite Serpenta spotted
>>96580361the chainaxes are retardedly fuckhuge. why GW keeps doubling down in these big ass cartoon weapons when they nailed the designs in HH1? The very same one they still use in color plates?
>>96581338I am deeply retarded, I thought you only got to disengage if you won, I don't know how I misread what I posted lmao.
>>96581488One of the HH designers has to have a big axe fetish. It started with the plastic model of that BL self-insert, forgot the name, fagnigger rann or something?
>>96581503You misreading already puts you way above most people that post here. The majority can't read at all.
>>96581506>that BL self-insert, forgot the name, fagnigger rann or something?Rann is a FW character first mentioned in the IA Badab books. It's true that he's a gringe fanfictiony mix of IF and SW, thoughHis BL art was actually sensible unlike the retarded mini he got
>>96581530That artwork actually looks quite alright. What the fuck happened with the design of that plastic disaster.
>>96580361Disintigrator pistols. Wow what's the point?
>>96581584I think they're cool.
>>96581584A single disintegrator pistol because it's an option for the sergeant
>>96580557>>96580537
>>96581556They did the same to Zephon, who in the books is not a Moritat, doesn't have visible bionics, and has long blonde hair.But once their minis became official, BL changed their art to pic related (even if the text descriptions didn't change)
>>96581530I don't care who the government sends the plastic axes look better, the massive gap on those FW axes looked like ass and were even more impractical in model form. The massive shield on a guy already dual wielding and the backpack icon do look dumb though
>>96580437>cruor-courtnever change
>>96579379>>96579403The only thing about it i really hate about it is how stupid it is to get transports. There was litearlly zero reason for dedicated transports to be removed. If they kept the current system, and just gave back the dedicated transport system then replaced the light transport slots on the prime detatchment with like 2 supports and 1 tank and 1 Fast attack, i would be fine. I fucking hate having to play this stupid ass game of wack a mole to figure out where im getting my transports from, and god forbid if I have to change an HQ out. >Just take an HQ for a spear head slotI should not have to take a fucking officer to get access to my taxis.
>>96581665the plastic axes are still retarded. Only the old resin ones in FW upgrade kits were decently scaled
>>96579357Ok anons, i tried phosphex rapiers last night....fuck yeah im sold, Im putting a siege breaker in my breacher unit and those phosphex FUCK.
>>96581667They can't help themselves.>Flay-Theta
>>96581692How does he steer the speeder while his hands are preoccupied with aiming the gun right in front of his face?
>>96581716That's the gunner, the driver is in the seat on the other side.How much of a tourist are you?
>>96581729Tbqh I only came here to lurk for a little while because 40kg is having another one of its hissy fits. Please be nice to me.
>>96581692GOD theyre just so silly i love my guys>thinking of grabbing some blood lights and meeting my dismembermates at the splatterhouse after work, you (death)game?
>>96581530Fafnir's mini has similar problems to the AoD Praetors in that all the superfluous details make for way too much going on. Suppose Citadel really wants to differentiate plastic characters from marines, like I could imagine even Aeonid Thiel being completely overdone if those fucks actually bothered with a named dude for every legion.Could probably remove the shield, then cut off the pteruges and shave some details at the front to reign it back in, at least. Don't think there's any fixing the oversized badge and axes than just removing them.
>>96581753using these minis as parts for other characters is the way to go, IMO
>>96579357I feel like there's some fuckery with Reaction cost-reduction rules and Concealed Positions, but even if there isn't, Supremacy Cadres, Prosperine Convocation, Reaping Host, Berserker Cadres, Hammer of Olympia, Stormwing Musters and anything else with a Prime Troops slot can be used to select teleporting Tacticals/Despoilers that don't rely on Deep Strike and only cost a Reaction point. It's gold, Jerry.
>>96581789Fafnir's mini apparently often gets used as a basis for custom Praetors of other legions, helps he's made of plastic and not resin, so a lot more accessible. I intend to convert Zephon into a Jump Champ, there's glaring holes in the plastic range for HQs. Like, the plastic Cataphractii Praetor is honestly shockingly bad.At the end of the day we really need good neutral, legion and allegiance-agnostic designs like these two niggas, just in the current scale for consistency. I'd love something like a dedicated DIY Consul kit, but that ain't happening.
>>96581841>DIY Consul kitgenuinely would be so genius for literally every one of their (non vehicle based) games its so painful
>>96581881Obviously a kit would models in it would help, but even a dedicated upgrade kit with no full minis (like piggybacking off the tactical/assault marines and refreshed termies) can do the job. Would also greatly help for things like Apothecaries and Techmarines. But I just don't see it happening when GW wants you to buy FW resin characters, and it's shit like this that makes people look to third-party or proonting.
>>96581841>>96581881What the HH really needs are Legion upgrade sprues. If fucking Necromunda gangs can have them, so can marines.
>combine overwatch soldier stlsmaybe i do have room for an overseer and squad of militia
Honestly I wish there was a weapon equivalent to the chainfist for power armored guys so I can have a teifecta of weapons to splatter on my vet assault squads. I could do twin lightning claws but that means I can't give everyone a shield
>>96579547When Orks?
>>96581986It's called a lascutter and Breachers carry it
>>96581959>nemesis claw replacementgood god if only
>>96581503In a perfect world it would be. As it is there's often very little reason to not disengage.
>>96581986what this anon said >>96582000Lascutters FUCK.
>>96581625I think Zephon having visible augmetics is fine, it actually makes him look different to a standard dude. Correct about the hair though.
Was the White Scars Saturnine fluff posted or was there even any?
>>96582169Was posted in this very thread >>96580440Basically the "Teleports behind you" meme.
>>96581625>Marine with bionics is represented on the table with Bionics.It's a crazy world we live in.
>>96582213Iirc he had his power armour over them and made it a point that he never wanted to see them again.
>>96582246Too bad, he's a cripple that can barely fire a gun
>>96581959Real shit right here. So much time, material, etc wasted on necro gangs that would never outsell a marine equivalent
>>96582213Zephon doesn't have visible bionics, loreletHe was a cripple unable to really fight during the Webway War. Butl Arkhan Land fixed him with DAoT bionics that look like normal human limbs under a new MKVI armour suit he got afterwards
>>96582264He isn't? Did you read the sot novels or did you just pick up that part of fluff from some sloptubers?
>>96582246I'll have to reread MoM, pick up the other books he showed up in. I did like his character and was stoked to see him get a model.>>96581959Fat chance with how the new kits are put together. I said fuck it and went 3D-pilled rather than pay for crap I can't convert, be a pain to build, let alone the costs of GW.
>>96582275Zephon shouldn't even be a playable HQ. Unlike Fafnir Rann he didn't lead any Astartes unit during the war. During the Webway war he was a crippled "canary" and Arkhan Land's bodyguard at bestWhen Sanguinius came to Terra, he became a Sanguinary Guard for a time.Finally he got the MKVI suit and was an "Overseer" cheerleading Imperial Army conscripts during the Siege.
>>96582341Zephon got an official model and rules before Sanguinary Guard did (^:
>>96582193>>96580440Thanks.
>>96582341no one should be using primarchs or black library characters whatsoever in their forces but here we are
>>96582471>don't use primarchs and marines in the primarchs and marines civll war gameyou're fucking stupidThe only issue is that Primarchs should be deployed along so many other units, that they belong more to Epic scale than 28mm games, but that's a more of a basic problem with the game.
>>96579508I do like that bit about TSons. Any other lore bits? I heard there was some level of involvement in the earlier designs to some degree.
>>96582509it's not cool, tasteful, or remotely appropriate to include themespecially in a game and setting that very much invites you to come up with your own angle and story on things
>>96582536primarchs are great and only late 2010s hipsters and contrarians say the opposite. Finally being able to play with them was one of the main selling points of HH1.They don't even dominate the game or are mandatory like they sometimes are in 40k (which outs you as a butthurt refugee that should have stayed there instead of telling anons here what's kosher or not)
>>96582560>They don't even dominate the gameAsk me how i know you never played 1.0 and or never fought Magnus, Logar, or Russ.
legions for this feel?
>>96582584bearers without question
>>96582569>doesn't remember AP2 pie plate spam or death stars being easily being tarpited just like today
>>96582584Night lords
>>96582341Like Rann, Zephon goes on to found a sucessor Chapter. If the assumption that we'll play into the Scouring and therefore the 2nd founding, It makes sense for these named characters to be introduced.
>>96582614Oh i remember it, trust me i fucking hated fighting Aux dracon transport spam. I also remember how fucking broken primarchs were with magnus just being able to draw a line across the board and basically go "Ok these are all dead."The idea that primarchs "did not dominate" is hilariously laughable for anyone whos actually played against them in 1.0
>>96580437>Flayed Hand againOne of these days the Star of Judgement will have its due.
>>96582341>Didnt fight at all>except for these examples which are 100% of all battles and he never fought off screen>in fact he materialized in his first book out of nothingness as a full marine and reality warped a backlog of memories to everyone he encountered
If the jump pack harness cables are easy to trim off, the thick front armour plating makes them a very good look for Destroyers, don't you think?
>>96582713those cables/strands of material around the head are their own bit at least in part from what i could telli'd wager they're power couplings of some kind specifically for interface with the jump rigyes otherwise it's very gnarly
>>96580448Applying transfers before the pin wash.
>>96582536I don't generally run either Primarchs, Lords of War or Praetor-level named characters, but the deal I've made with a few opponents is that if you want to bring your Primarch to fight my bunch of literally whos, I get a trophy of some sort if I manage to take them down. Not a big one, just a sword, legion helmet, shoulderpad with relevant transfer to go on it or whatever. If i can keep that up I'm looking forward to putting the AL headhunter bomb to work this edition and assembling a little squad of snipers that accumulate various battle honours, since snipers are actually decent for the first time since I started playing a decade ago.Not sure my Mechanicum will be racking up very many of those, they don't seem to have any equivalent answers, but we'll see, Domitars can be pretty mean if something peels away the big fellow's escort.
>>96582713I was thinking breachers myself. I kind of like the high collars formed by the cables, but the backplate might look a little silly with a regular backpack. We'll see what the proper Breachers look like, I suppose.
>>96582773One thing I was wondering is why Headhunters vs Seekers? Is volume of fire and smokescreen outright better than the range and shot selector on Krakens?
>>96582808>We'll see what the proper Breachers look like, I suppose.Upgrade kit, we already know. Just arms, shields, heads, weapons.
>>96582713probably the easiest straight conversion of a legion specific unit we've seen.
Speaking of Headhunters, is a combi-melta worth the 10 points for cheeky AP2 Precision?
>>96582977Nta but banestrike headhunters have a very specific build where they put out ridiculous damage. The idea is you make them Malefic and buff them to BS6 with a magos, making them Crit (automatically wound/breach and damage 2) on 6s.With 10 guys shooting 40 shots ( and with each crit shot capable of killing a regular Termie via D2) that's a lot of damage.>>96583049My old melta death squad is still eating HQs alive so I'd say so. 4 combis and one multi is basically guaranteed to kill one or two characters, and almost everyone in my meta has a big deathstar with a fighty character (praetor/champion) and a utility character (herald/librarian) so they always make their points back.Shame they're completely terrible against vehicles.
>>96582713Those look a lot more like power cables than a harness. Maybe they could work with a normal backpack as well
>>96583042They do look very fitting
>>96582977Unbuffed they're very comparable, I think Seekers are slightly better in a vaccum almost entirely because of their far superior range (30" vs 18"). Seekers are 30pts less for a full squad of 10, can take a nuncio-vox and have better range and flexibility, since they can swap their guns to Panic or Suppression mode to mess with squads. That's especially brutal against troops, because 20 bolter shots probably shoots out the sarge/vox even without Breaching.Headhunters do slightly more damage against Marine units in most circumstances and a lot more damage against anything squisher than a Marine, plus they all come with free Hatred power daggers in case you really need to poke off a wound and can all take meltabombs, although that gets fairly expensive.The specific build I'm going with here, which another anon dubbed "the headhunter bomb", is what >>96583133 mentioned, and that absolutely skyrockets the amount of damage they put out, especially when sniping majority T5+ squads where Seekers don't get to use their full Breaching value anyway. They'll die for it, even with the Magos tanking cybertheurgic feedback on his 2+ save it will eventually gut the squad and they're not that durable, but they're a huge exclusion zone until dealt with, they'll kill five Cataphractii in shooting and can do the same with Overwatch and Return Fire, so you can't lightly provoke them. They'll one-round precision snipe anything without Eternal Warrior and most things with it, or put 4-5 wounds into Primarchs on an average turn of fire, at which point the Primarch can't retaliate while the headhunters can still React because they'll put him down with reaction fire.They might not be good, especially with short range and no easy transport, but it sounds sufficiently fun that I want to try it.>>96583049It's a shame to lose the free banestrike combi, they're usually quite expensive, but I think it's good in 5-mans. Kill one medium character/vehicle and then knife things.
>>96582735>a glass of water well la-ti-dah
>>96583707How phreaky should phraetus be? Right now I just have a bloodletter head on my anointed's torso but I'm trying to find more danger bling
>>96582735looking good anon, the transfers over the chipping doesnt make a ton of visual sense though
>>96579547Extremely based post
>>96583734Like 10% phreaky. Anything over is too chaos and likely buried underneath calth
>>96583707>>96583779Got like a group shot of them? They seem hella chill
Had a 3k doubles day yesterday. Ibthink we had every faction in use.
>>96580557You don't know jack fucking shit. Get back in your hole.
>>96583867slow this gif down, turn it to a webm and play little dark age in the background.
>>96583779True, but my Phraetus are Alpha Legion
>>96583848Thanks and sure
>>96583779The freakiest stuff wasnr even at calth, calth was the rejects and retards of the word bearers, all the good stuff was on istvaan like the original gal vorbak.
>>96583133>>96583192Thank you for explaining that for me. I wasn't sure if it was just headhunters with meltabombs or something and I was missing something, or it was something else.>>96583936Then they should be normal Saturnine with servo skulls with sunglasses and disintegrators gangster style.
>>96583953>rejects and retardsThey partied so hard that Samus showed up. If anything they were the most word of all bearers
Why is the traitor mechanicum producing fresh new saturnine suits with big eagles prominently welded on to represent the unshakable bond between the loyalist factions the traitors are rebelling against? Is it an in-joke, like hazard stripes are?
>>96584101many of them do it mockingly, yes
>other half of my AoD cata sprues are MIAWHERE ARE THEY
>>96584101Same reason that storm eagles and fire raptors come with a aquila plastered on the front: as a traitor you're suppose to shave those icons off. It adds to the immersion.
More new things painted
do disintergrators have barrels that need to be drilled
>>96583042what kind of gun is that? where can I find more of that
>>96584190When in doubt: drill.
>>96584184>>96584190Oops old pic. I went back and painted black dots on all the barrels
>>96584194That gun is a frankenstein monster thrown together in photoshop
>>96580892>where death was a reprieve from enslavement under the Word Bearers’ cruelty, the dead of Milhand would be afforded no such luxury by their new, Medusan, overlords.I DON'T CARE IF YOUR BLADDER IS EXPLODING, THE SHIFT IS OVER WHEN I SAY IT'S OVER
made the mistake of lurking the troonhammer discord its as insuferable as you expect
>>96584319explain, never joined troon discord servers
>>96584319Walrus cord? if so yeah its hilarious how bad that one can be, and how much they defend GW
I just find it hard to accept that almost every planet, except for a handful, is not suitable for human habitation. Most of them aren't even the proper size; gravity can either crush you or microgravity will also fuck you up in the long run.Making OC planetary systems is just so weird because you have to add at least half a dozen useless planets. And that's accurate to reality, look at our own system!Mercury is abandoned but useful, but how do people live on Jupiter's moons? They are small and Jupiter is radioactive. I could picture a forge fane on Io, Europa at least has water (though 0 energy) and Ganymede has an okay size, but the rest don't look so good.Even the Moon doesn't look good. How do people live there? Ain't no volatiles or biosphere
>>96584390Dark age of technology terraforming anon, there's no such thing as an inhabitable planet, just inconvenient ones
>>96584380I believe they hope for official recognition eventually, which is why they want them all correct and well behaved. They do not want to be affiliated with all those rapscallions of 4chan, ooh heavens no!And, being a troon, idk GW might actually want them. The UK seems to have a thing for troons or something lol
>>96584395>Mfw the floor IS lava, but you got AC :^)Kinda makes you want to live on a solar orbital and have 500,000,000 years of free sandwiches
New terminators when
>>96584475Alongside plastic breachers when the new Zone Mortalis rules are releasedYes I am delusional
>>96579357Is it worth upgrading scimitars heavy bolters to culverins? 5 points for deflagrate basically
>>96584509And strength 6. And +9" range.
>>96580576>paired fistsDoes the saturnine termie kit even come with right handed fists?
>>96584551No, you have to use praetors or improvise
>>96584509Volkite deletes MEQ
>>96584584Aren't they 4 shots now? Wounds on 2s, but I'd think they'd mostly bounce off 3+ saves. Marines are so incredibly well armoured.
Do you bother equipping Optae?
What would you guys think to use for a conversion to add some Jump Pack straps to a body? I've got some MK5 armor I want to make into Assault squads/Destroyers. I'll probably just end up using some green stuff, but I've never sculpted before and am a bit nervous about fucking up.>>96584606You've still got a good volume of shots to overwhelm those saves.>>96584609What situation are you in where you'd want an Optae?
>>96580361uh, legs are separated from the torso. Weird
So has it been confimred if saturine terminators are cyborgs or just suits?
Anybody got a link to the Legiones Imperialis books?
>>96584701It's implied enough that I buy it. The Emperor's Children/Blood Angels have blurbs allude to something weird going on with putting people in them.
>>96584701>>96584770
>The Kolarne-Distal Incident>Three years into the HH>TS+WS on a far away research station are testing Saturnine armor>Other Scar show up, demand the Stormseer at the station join them>Says the Emperor declared TS traitors and demands the death of all TS>Stormseer too shocked to know what to do>Scars Captain charges the TS Techmarine with a powerfist>TS Techmarine blocks him with a magic barrier>Stormseer gets mad at the Captain and zaps him to death.>All hell breaks loose but the researchers win>TS+WS researchers agree to split the termie armor, say their farewells and leave to rejoin their legions.Didn't know WS were bros like that
>>96580892The whole Bodt campaign from the original HH books sold me on IH. It’s like on their day they were an absolutely irresistible whirlwind of destruction that not even other Astartes could adequately handle. It’s no wonder Horus wanted them on his side or out of the fight from the beginning.
>>96584770>EC apothecaries using saturnine terminator armour as an excuse to turn legionaries into fucknuggets
>>96584781Baller. I am slow building a WS force AND a TS detachment with Numerologists, a Forge Lord, and Psibots. So this fits great.
>>96584898Good luck anon. Have this, it might be handy with the symbol on the leg.
was supposed to play 3e but only a few people showed up to the monthly heresy meetup so we played a big team battle instead in 1e since the majority of us prefer that edition>two table game of 3v3 (IF+Sal+Sal vs Calibanite DA+AL+Daemons)>surface map connected to an underground map via elevators>traitors discovered a hidden, subterranean installation and use deep penetrating bunker busters to destroy it, clear out any survivors and recover what intel they can find>loyalist holdouts in surrounding security outposts close in to defend the compound
>>96583943Sexy
>>96585004I was playing daemons so had most of my focus in the underground complex and subsequently did not pay a lot of attention to the surface conflict. Can't really give a great recount of what happened up there as a result. T1>loyalists take first turn and find themselves hemmed in by the appearance of tears in reality but the two mortis dreadnoughts pick off terminators from the AL tartaros squad>daemons breach through the warp, shredding half a salamanders tactical squad with psychic powers and slowing the reflexes and reaction time of a lone contemptor to WS/BS1
>>96585033T2>gunfire fills the ruined confines of the installation but the brutes make the majority of their saves while the daemons and AL lernaens close in on the entrenched loyalists>the terminators bounce off the IF champion and his warder retinue while the daemon lord shreds the crippled contemptor to bits>the pair of mortis dreads find themselves surrounded by ephemeral threats but their armored plating holds firm
>>96585050T3>one of the two other salamanders contemptors rushes headlong into a free throng of brutes, getting covering fire from his volkite equipped brother, sending one of the beasts back to the ether and smashing another with his fist>the AL contemptor slinks around in the shadows, getting into the rear arc of his parallel and dumping multiple crippling melta shots before finishing him off with a chainfist>in the ensuing combat between warders and lernaenas, the daemon lord begins to slaughter the IF but not before they drag the AL terminators down with them
>>96585070T4>Cassian Dracos, having freed himself from behind the slog of his younger, more eager brothers charges the AL dread, his melta array bouncing off atomatic shielding>in a stunning round of combat, both dreadnoughts simultaneously tear each other apart leaving only two smouldering wrecks>a newly born horde of lesser daemons emerge from the portal and become promptly assaulted by chainsword wielding marines>rending and shredding talons make quick work of the tactical squad, killing more than half while only the paragon blade of the praetor and the powerfist of the sergeant find any success in banishing the monsters>the brutes' claws finally bring down a castraferrum, the other having its locomotion drives torn asunder>the surviving contemptor fairs much better, tearing daemons limb from limb before succumbing to the daemon lord, its form swollen with the powers of the warp
>>96584781WS enjoyers continuing to eat well
>>96585101called it at the end of T4daemons wracked up so many points just tearing shit apart that the loyalists couldn't hold onto the installation while the surface was being torn apart by a winged behemothDA absorbed most of the fire up top but a lot of their blades bounced off terminator and artificer armorAL supported both battlefields really well, mainly the subterranean contemptor finishing off multiple other dreads before falling and helping to extract precious information with actual troops
>>96583867My planes! >>96583917this would go hard
>>96585117Well done, Anon.Were deamons really boss in 1e? I don't think I've looked twice at their rules in any edition.>That sicarian with the gun down the middle of the turret like it ought to beAw yeah that's the stuff.
>>96584647Does it matter? Some units don't have a harness on their model.
>>96585148>Were deamons really boss in 1e?ya they had a ton of customization in 1e and could ignore the mission primary for their own objectives depending on their dominion as well as having multiple warlord traits for each oneyou also deployed them out of warp rifts that you place during deployment so they could get them almost wherever you wanted AND they rerolled their invuln saves within 6" of the riftsnurgle daemons were peak powergaming since they got a 5+ FNP in addition to that invuln and the warlord could even reroll that FNP on top of rerolling the invuln
>>96585184Brutal
Event on the weekend went stella, much fun and heresy was had. Tea light candle wreck markers bring the ambiance 30k craves.
>>96585220ton of ambiance but jesus christ, if you turned up the bokeh any higher and it'd just be a smear
proonting a bigass 20cm wide FDM blast crater this eveningsome of said machines are effectively retard-proof at this point. tremendously simple and effortless.
>>96585276Well done, Anon.
Should my saturnine hold a skull or a helmet colored like my usual opponent's marines?
>>96585334he should be dragging an entire armoured marine carcass by its half-crushed headmaybe it's missing its legs and lower torsogo for the helmet though if not
>>96585223>>96585220>>96585120>>96583867Was a really fun day
>>96584647Anon i have the mk5 fw models, both the standard marines and assault squad versions. They are essentially identical. The only difference is the cables on the assault one goes all the way around the torso (but are basically impossible to see) while the normal version has the cables go under the armour half way around.
>>96585378Son of big bird! How did the demons go? we were looking at their stats and thinking about them as allies lots after the event.Also planes go brrrrrrrt
>>96585391Umf. Goddamn the lightning is such a piece of shit but I love how it looks.
>>96585403that fucker miss 9/12 of his missle shots over 2 games, the BS3 really puts the hurt on it. I am keen to try out a lightning or two and a Xiphon in my WS army escorting a storm ealge or Caestus with 2 master of signals on the ground relaying reserve roll buffs just for shits and giggles.
>>96585449>the BS3 really puts the hurt on itSince it fires single shot missiles ironically BS4 would make it less accurate based on how many hunter killer missiles I've missed over the years.
>>96585449just an fyi, I do not believe master of signals affect Aerial Reserves the mos does not specify Aerial Reserves
>>96585464Cries in dead airwing dreams noises
>>96585391>Son of big bird!He did ok.Managed a surprising amount of saves.Got fucked when the veletari he had charged disengaged and then he evaporated to volkite.>big bird Went real hard, and he proced line 3 twice to win us game 1.>BeastsSolid enough, bit expensive though. And overshadowed by:>brutesReally good, best non hero in the book.>harbingerCheapest command, dies like a bitch.>LessersNo idea why you'd bother.I ran ravenous dissolution for the telepathy and telekinesis. Telekinesis is stupid.
>>96585609based and performance reported pilled, thanks anon. Line procs seem super hilarious. The pairing of TS and Demons was mint. Good to hear that lessers aren't worth it and the bigger more fun stuff is the go. I really want to see how infliltrating exploding nurgling bases go as well.
>got a saturnine box as a gift>taking a lot longer to paint them than I thought>only got 1 praetor, 6 terminators and 10 mk2 guys doneI think this box might take a while.
>>96585644>pairing of TS and Demons was mintYeah gave me an excuse to paint up some blue demons to go with the red and green ones.Exploding nurglings are going to be amazing.
>>96585653To be fair you do have a fair deal of trim with MkII that slows you down relative to say, MkVI, and also doing stripes. How complex are the Termies to build?
>>96585765Just for building, took me 6 hours to do 6 termis roughly. A lot of parts were unnecessarily a separate bit.
>>96585790At least going off the sprue layouts, the build did indeed seem a lot more complicated than it needed to be. I've assembled Custodes and that can surprisingly take its sweet time for guys you'd think are hardly that more complex than a marine, but Saturnine seems to be a bit overboard, and for what reasons I wouldn't know. Were the sprue ergonomics hell?Best of luck with the rest of the box.
>Still no fucking pre-order for MK2 assault marines in Australia and New Ze*landWhy Gee dubya?!
>>96585944The article says they're delayed, doesn't say how long
>>96585971Fucking GW can't into logistics
>Horde army takes more effort to paint than the elite armySigh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByKIdGAatxYThis guy's 'review' up if there was any pages not posted here people are after
>>96586138>>96586138>>96586138
>>96582713If you wanted to use them as Mortalis Destroyers I guess? But... default Destroyers have Jump Packs. You literally just need to go to etsy and buy an arm pack for them and that's it.
>>96584497I don't think we're going to be waiting as long as November for the plastic Breachers. I wouldn't be surprised to get them for mid October.
>>96584647>>96584606Don't forget Deflagrate as well. So, let's run the numbers here: You get four shots (if you stand still, or maybe the Scimitars have a rule that negates this? Iunno) with the Volkite, 2.3 hit. 2.2 wounds, armour saves reduce that to 0.74 wounds. So, five of them will reliably inflict 3.7 unsaved wounds. Then Deflagrate inflicts another 0.5 wounds for around 4.2.It's not quite the leafblower you'd want it to be. That said, you take the exact same number of points of Volkite Caliver in a normal support squad (180) then you get twice as many models so that increases up to around 8.3. Which if nothing else is enough to force a panic check. That said the potential ceiling for damage with Volkite is VERY high. Sure you'll average around 4 dudes a turn with those Scimitars. But there will come a turn when his armour saves are GARBAGE and you roll well to hit, and he will take something ridiculous like 20+ wounds and just die.
>>96584319leave before you get groomed into trooning out
>>96584770EC debasing every single time
>>96584781In b4 the Captain was a terran
