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>>96583809
Pull from romantasy, it would even make exalted in a household name.

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>>96583809
What Totem animal do you prefer for your Lunars, what is their Tell, and why? Do you have any advice on choosing such? Picrel I found is an armored Kraken.

And does your Lunar have any other forms outside of their Totem one they prefer?

>Caste of peerless warriors, generals and champions
>Slaughtered like cattle by glorified footsoldiers
>Caste of great leaders, priests and rulers, who should inspire loyalty and devotion in their followers
>Their leadership was so godfucking awful, all their direct underlings rebelled against them
>Caste of powerful sorcerers who change the very nature of reality
>Owned by ignoramuses without access to the Solar Circle
>Caste of unparalleled spymasters and assassins
>Couldn't even uncover the massive conspiracy that ended them all
>Caste of diplomats, mediators and negotiators with obligation to forge consensus and understanding between denizens of Creation
>Forged jack and shit
Do Solars even deserve to be called Exalted? Why would anybody want to play these losers?

>>96586197
I don't get it either. The usurpation makes them all look like clowns.

>>96586197
>>96586215
Being unable to distinguish between mistakes made due to hubris and ones made due to lack of ability might genuinely be a sign of some kind of a cognitive deficiency. So might being unble to comprehend a conflict where both sides are impressive, powerful and competent and one of these impressive, powerful and competent sides eventually overcomes the other, also impressive, powerful and competent, side. Solars were defeated by other Exalted with oth numbers and surprise on their side, not by some randos.

>>96586392
If you can't uncover a global fucking conspiracy against you then you're just plain stupid. Hubris has shit to do with it.

>>96586408
How'd a non-stupid person uncover a conspiracy he doesn't suspsect to exist and one whose existence is presumably only really known by the top people, with these top people all being experienced and powerful superhumans in their own right? It's not like there were Usurpation recruiters on every street corner approaching passerbys to ask whether they'd like to contribute to the upcoming revolution.

>>96586422
>presumably only really known by the top people
Literally everyone was in on it. Some were even in on it and opposed it.

There is no excuse and you'll never be able to invent one.

>>96586392
Solar Cope 101
Also, House Tepet's defeat was inside job and the Bull exists only because Bronze Faction lets him.

TIL poison in Essence is actually pretty scary if you can't hit Difficulty 5 on your poison resistance rolls. Two levels of damage per round for five rounds on the contact poison's statblock.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing and in fact it's entirely justified that our Night Caste went from 0 to incap after being jabbed by a poisoned needle trap while fucking about in hostile territory, I was just surprised to see them drop after 3e's poisons doing nothing but apply penalties unless you're jabbed like ten times.

>>96586408

Has 3E errata'd out the great curse, or something? I thought the whole point about the great curse, is that when a solar hits limit break, they act out in accordance to it, and then they are incapable of doing anything other than justifying their behavior completely and utterly.

That builds up to some serious reality warping.

>>96586664
How would the great curse not make it even more likely for them to uncover this gigantic fucking conspiracy?

>>96586675

Are you aware of how many mental illnesses are self-reinforcing self-destructive loops, if you do not explicitly chose to break it by fighting against it with your free will, to address its causes? The great curse is a mental illness that solars are metaphysically incapable of chosing to fight against or address its causes, at least from the perspective of being actually subject to it.

People can get really hard-entrenched in their own psychotic bullshit over, say, 60 years of reinforcement. This leads to people that are say 60 years old who, due to decades of self-reinforced delusion and mental illness, are unable to think of or notice extremely obvious things because their arrogance and pride blinds it to them.

Now, crank that up by making it metaphysically impossible for them to even attempt to have a look at themselves and ask themselves if they are the problem, and then have them self-reinforce narcissistic psychosis for millenia.

You will get some of the most absurd blind spots. Solars who simply do not bother to investigate whether they could possibly be betrayed because their limit break has them believe they are the highest authority in whatever situation they're in, with the highest amount of competence to enforce it. They succeed for a thousand years straight of successfully doing that, and so every single time they take control of a situation, they reinforce the idea that they actually are in full control and that them not being in control is impossible to conceive. Conceiving the opposite would be going against the premise of their limit break.

>>96586698
What the actual fuck are you rambling about?

If the Great Curse causes such massive schizophrenic spergouts that the whole world ends up tempted into overthrowing the solars then how the fuck could a world-spanning conspiracy possibly go unnoticed by these fucking paranoid lunatics with special powers in every single ability INCLUDING AWARENESS, BUREAUCRACY, INVESTIGATION AND SOCIALIZE?

>>96586197
>>96586433
The whole myth-arc of creation is predicated on lesser rising up and usurping their masters, and making the world fundamentally shitter when they do so.

>>96586714

Consider that a Solar might have the great curse manifesting in, say, believing that they are always right, and because they are always right, their mind completely blanks over whenever someone explains to them something that would have them change their mind, even if on paper that Solar would actually really like it if someone informed them of a world-spanning conspiracy that could harm them.

So then, even if someone were to patiently explain to that Solar that there is a world-spanning conspiracy to get them, the Solar would simply glaze over the information, not even notice what the person said, or fail to read any messages sent to them, and continue yelling deranged things like:

"How the fuck would there be a world-spanning conspiracy possibly go unnoticed by us, the Solar Exalted? We're literally the best people in all of creation at everything we do, including sniffing out conspiracies. There is no world-spanning conspiracy. It's inconceivable. If there was one, we would know by now."

>>96586730
This is comical and not at all how the great curse actually works. If it was there'd be no need for an usurpation because the solars wouldn't even be capable of causing any harm to anyone.

There is straight up no justifying this clown fiesta.

>>96586744

Behold, thousands of millenia of the great curse at work.

>>96586675
Gigantic fucking conspiracy doesn't mean that everyone involved in that conspiracy knows they're part of something more than a local resistance cell. All Sidereals knew what was coming but Siddies actively opposed to it were few enough in number that those in favor of it being able to keep them in check hardly strains credulity, and most DBs sure as fuck weren't in on the plans.

>>96586714
Paranoid delusions don't actually help you spot real threats, anon. If anything, they give people who want to distract you with made up bullshit so you won't notoce what's really going on plenty to work with.

>>96586714
>INCLUDING AWARENESS, BUREAUCRACY, INVESTIGATION AND SOCIALIZE?
See 1e Lunars, to see that "Bureaucracy good ≠ well".

Solar!Grabowski got the book that he wanted, but it caused problems to years to come.

>>96586730
>>96586698
>Do this for me.
>"No."
>Well, he didn't disobey me because nobody can disobey me. Guess I'll just sit in this chair until it's done.

>>96586744
Since 1e, the great curse has non-mechanical effects, that cause elders to develop schizophrenia.

>>96586778

After several thousand years of mind-bending self-deception, why would it be implausible for, as one of the uncountable number of potential ways for that interaction to actually happen, someone to interpret that "No." as a joke, and that the subtext is that obviously he'll do it because saying no to you is suicide, and he feels comfortable joking around with you because he obviously loves you because of how great you are?

Really just seems like a failure of imagination on your part, man.

>the usurpation makes sense if the great curse is le wacky xD harmless randumb bullshit
Really?

>>96586793
>harmless.
People were arguing the opposite.
The devs just wanted the red wedding.

>>96586789
Except if you follow this retarded logic then there'd be no reason to organize the Usurpation to begin with because the Solars would be entirely dysfunctional and completely harmless.

In fact they would basically need constant care like they're mentally disabled children because they keep thinking that food will just spontaneously move itself into their mouths and would starve to death just sitting in their asses as they wait for that to happen.

>>96586793
No, Usurpation makes sense because Solars had their heads firmly lodged up their asses after millennia of unquestioned rule and because the other side also consisted of demigods who knew what they were doing. Anons who bring up the Great Curse are overthinking things.

>>96586801

There certainly is retarded logic being followed to that conclusion, but it's not logic I've laid out. You're just choosing to not imagine the possibility of a huge exploitable flaw being attached to and corrupting hyper-competence.

>>96586801
In 3e, Sidereals organized a courp against magical UN because they wanted the rule the world themselves.

I just think it's stupid as fuck that the Great Curse has been around forever and no one tries to cure it. I get it, some things you can't do even if you can fundamentally rewrite reality. For some dumb fuck reason. It being a mental health thing is even dumber though because what the fuck, someone never pointed out that throwing a tantrum when you don't get your way isn't a healthy way to act? like god damn.

lets be real it's a mechanics thing so you have permission to act like a drama queen in character. If limit breaking becomes disruptive then you don't limit break, because what the fuck. You've had the focus for an hour now dave, give someone else the spotlight. Want to have a character who sometimes cries uncontrollably or goes berserk? The great curse helps facilitate that.

i don't get why mechanics need in game shit to represent it. It ruins the suspension of disbelief.

all the solars having a hyperspecific mental illness that makes them narrowly avoid all the clues about the global conspiracy against them is funny as fuck

>>96586838
The great curse "doesn't" exist in universe, it was made for railroading.

Than the devs had to bend backwards to explain why it wasn't noticed, countered or how "it does not break the themes".

>>96586853
I don't like the term railroading for limit breaks because they're honestly very fun to roleplay. I feel like if they're ruining your game or making things disruptive then they're... being used wrong? I don't know, I just think they're neat.

It being an actual curse just feels so insanely silly like its been a thousand years how does no one know about this or hasn't tried to fix it yet come ooooon.

>>96586838
>no one tries to cure it.
Nobody knows it's something to be cured. People have noticed it, and have tried to treat it. The Cult of the Illuminated, specifically, are the only ones in Creation to have both noted that the Solar Exalted tend to go mad over time, and implemented methods of treating that madness. The Cult has mandatory therapy sessions for their Solars with a Sidereal after every action scene / time they go off the rails, careful logging of how the Solars behave, foster their Solars in social groups they should build attachments to, and so on. In the First Age it was a known phenomena that supernatural passions could occur but it was in the context of those supernatural urges breaking the Celestial Exalted out of slave collars and feeling fucking fabulous come-uppance on the world at the same time. There's a good argument to be made that the main non-mechanical effect of the Great Curse long term is addiction to the supernaturally powerful feel-good catharsis it gives you.

That being said joining the Cult of the Illuminated is also treated as a failure state and it's thought that only morons willing to give up all of their player character's freedoms would consider it, among the player base. Most NPC Exalted act the same.

>>96586838
>lets be real it's a mechanics thing so you have permission to act like a drama queen in character. If limit breaking becomes disruptive then you don't limit break, because what the fuck. You've had the focus for an hour now dave, give someone else the spotlight.
The issue is that, it was made to be disrupting.

>i don't get why mechanics need in game shit to represent it. It ruins the suspension of disbelief
White Wolf double speech; when they say that the players are role players, instead of roll players, they mean that they are role playing as the npcs of an already made story.
When they say that Storytellers are free to tell their stories, they mean the stories already made and approved by WW.

A recent example is the hunger mechanics from vampire 5e.

>>96586885
It literally is, so the players don't play the game wrong.

Just see the seething of 5e vampirefags against people being careful, in their high lethality game.

>>96586918
>A recent example is the hunger mechanics from vampire 5e.
rotschreck and frenzy

>>96586964
To avoid "vampion" players from playing the game wrong, the game devs changed blood points to a hunger mechanic that punish the players when they use their powers.

Now they are complaining that the players are playing the game wrong, by avoiding the punishment by not using their powers.

>using an improvised weapon is worse than just hitting someone barehanded
for what purpose

>>96587416
>for what purpose
Kung fu fantasy, obviously. It's not always the case, too. Sometimes the higher damage rating on a heavier improvised object is worthwhile, it's just really really rare.

>>96586838
I just want to take a moment to talk about the mythologized anecdote for why Grabowski specifically included the Great Curse.

It goes something like this

>The playtest group were D&D players and they tried to play Paladins and were trying to be the good guys all the time.
>The Great Curse was added to emulate moments in mythology such as (example example example)

Never once have my games been improved by the existence of the Great Curse both in narrative and mechanically. Never once, by the way, has this stopped players or characters in the setting doing interesting morally grey shit that pushes the narrative forward.

What I do not get about the supposed anecdote from Grabowski's playtest group is...what fucking stories was this guy doing, that they could always pick the objectively correct choice, and it never blew up on them?

It's just bad. The times when an Exalt actually needs something somewhat analogous to a Great Curse can already be handled by having them be features intrinsic to an Exaltation. Hell, in 1e and 2e Alchs/Abyssals didn't have the GC, their respective 'GC' stand ins were part of the Exaltation.

As for the argument that the GC encourages (example mythology) moments by giving you explicit permission...you could also just do that in the game's rules as specific call outs and not make it a dumbass limit track with IC-Lore-People-Only-Know-OOC bullshit surrounding it.

>>96587531
Even though Abyssals don't use Resonance in 3e... they still basically use Resonance. The results of the Bleak Expiation are almost entirely the same as venting Resonance. So at least there's still that.

>>96587531
>Never once have my games been improved by the existence of the Great Curse both in narrative and mechanically.
It's worked alright for me with Essence and Demake's systems, even today when we had someone decapitate a guy and go on a rampage that ended with her throwing another party member out the window, which is why I maintain that it's not the Great Curse that's the problem, it's the implementation of it and expectations surrounding it. The building Limit meter is something I strongly disagree with, and the actual Limit Break itself forcing very specific forms of madness is kind of iffy - every aspect of the Curse is best when it's put in the player's hands.

>>96587836
TA
I think the mechanical implementation of it was good in Essence. I don't like the narrative of it in any version of Exalted.

>>96587531
I can't find it now, but there's a Grabowski's quote of the "despite of its themes, the great curse was made to railroad players" effect.
Grabowski playtestes were problem players by not being problem players.

>>96587718
Oh, I thought they were going to get rid of the "Resonance bomb", it looks like they just renamed it instead.

>>96588525
>Oh, I thought they were going to get rid of the "Resonance bomb", it looks like they just renamed it instead.
I don't get why they ever made it break at all. It didn't in 1e, you just went up to Resonance 10 and stayed there with a penalty to social and virtue rolls until you did resonance manipulation or penitence. The resonance effects weren't even bad for you, none of this shit that came around with the general make-every-thing-awful-isms of 2e Abyssals. Why not bring that back in 3e, since they claim to like 1e - why not go back to the one good rendition of Abyssals they had?

>>96583809
So a few people in my group have said this, but I'm just not seeing it, is Five-Dragon Style actually busted? It seems very basic and not very impressive to me.

>>96586197
I see the site's hipster contrarianism is flaring up again.

>>96588764
>So a few people in my group have said this, but I'm just not seeing it, is Five-Dragon Style actually busted?
For Terrestrial styles it's pretty good. I wouldn't exactly call it overwhelmingly strong in tiers higher than it, but it doesn't take much investment and gives aggravated damage, very efficient damage adding, multiattacks, a perfect soak (really rare in TMA and probably the best perfect in TMA at all), and Five-Dragon Blocking Technique is a lot of cheap DV. It's not stupid strong but it is better than most Celestial Martial Arts (including most Immaculate Martial Arts styles).

What MA need to spice them up is non-combat utility, even without using Charms. Maybe give the stylist some permanent upgrades as a result of mastering he styles' teaching enough.

>>96588972
Some do. Five-Dragon Form adds Essence to your movement, jumping and feats of strength. But if you mean "-" cost charms, I can't think of any styles that have them.

>>96583809
What are some artifacts and other methods an evil Solar might have used to control their Lunar mate? And maybe some DBs too? I want their reincarnation to discover them.

>>96588972
Every single sorcerous and necromantic initiation has a number of merits to go with it and MA needs the same. Maybe you can gate them so that the merits can only be bought if you buy up to the form charm, or maybe there are a number of increasingly powerful merits that are avaible for purchase if you buy one charm, the form charm, and all the charms

>>96589085
>Sun and Moon Method

>Cost: 1m; Mins: Presence 3, Essence 2; >Type: Reflexive (Step 1); Keywords: >Obvious, Emotion, Touch; Duration: Indefinite
>Prerequisite Charms: Presence Excellency - Presence Mastery

>This Charm is the result of Solar paranoia in the High First Age. When alone with one another, certain Solars referred to it by an alternate title, “Lunar-Taming Leash.” With a touch, the Lawgiver infuses his Essence into the link constructed into his Lunar mate’s Exaltation, vastly strengthening it. The Lunar gains the benefits (and drawbacks) of a five-dot rating in the Solar Bond Background. This unnatural mental influence remains in effect until five Willpower is spent at one time to remove it.

>In the event that a Solar’s Lunar mate is not available, he may touch himself and activate the Charm instead. Doing so grants the Solar an infal-lible sense of the direction in which his mate can be found, even if he has never met the Lunar in question before. If the Lunar is in another realm of existence, the Charm leads the Lawgiver to the nearest point of entry to that realm.

1/2

>>96589085
>>96589193
>Soul-Spanning Bridge Relay

>Cost: —; Mins: Presence 5, Essence 5; >Type: Permanent; Keywords: Obvious; >Duration: Permanent; Prerequisite >Charms: Sun and Moon Method

>The authority of a Lawgiver with this Charm is inescapable. The Solar is capable of making social attacks against her Lunar mate while he is under the effects of this Charm’s prerequisite, enhanced by any desired Presence or Performance Charms, regardless of the distance separating them. This communication is one-way. The Solar cannot sense her mate’s state of mind or read his thoughts. Though the Solar’s player always dictates use of this Charm, characters sometimes use Soul-Spanning Bridge Method unconsciously, imposing their idle thoughts and desires on their mate unintentionally.

>Despite numerous attempts throughout the First Age, no Lunar has ever been able to design Charms permitting him to exercise power over his Solar mate through their spiritual bond.

>>96589097
>Maybe you can gate them so that the merits can only be bought if you buy up to the form charm, or maybe there are a number of increasingly powerful merits that are avaible for purchase if you buy one charm, the form charm, and all the charms
The latter is the better idea. Maybe there's some merits you gain automatically just by learning the first Charm, some you can buy right away but become cheaper the more Charms you have. Perhaps some regular merits can also be purchased at a discount (or made available if they're chargen-only) if you follow the right style. Also get rid of that godawful 4-dot merit tax, or at least give it something that would justify the expense.

>>96589193
>>96589201

Reasons to never touch 2e, graphically displayed! (in text.)

>>96590099
There were some really strong domination fetishes showing up in old exalted. You just know some author found this shit super hot.

What other really obvious fetishes pop up? Besides monster fucking, because duh.

>>96590099
1e!Sidereals could also do with their survival tree.

>>96590129
It is white wolf, this specific fetish was there since vampire (Dominate & Presence for starters).

Out of head; exalted also have size difference (djala), slavery, corruption, prostitution, dub/non consensual, piercings/tattoos, age difference and lesbian fetishes.

There's also an argument for necrophilia.

I miss my red panda Lunar waifu

>>96590249
I still want to fuck an Agatae.

>>96589201
>>96589193
Has anyone ever converted these to 3e? And what about artifacts with similar purposes? Or ones that work on DBs?

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It's funny they changed Lunar shapeshift Charms into Knacks in 2e because Eclipses when Eclipses could never even do their shapeshifting in 1e

>>96590756
Yes, Grabowski talked about it, they technically could get the charms but couldn't use them.

But it was because of autism from a dev, he didn't like the concept of charms that Solars couldn't take, so Knacks were invented.

>>96590794
>Maybe solars shouldn't be able to take charms from every other splat for game balance and to keep them feeling like solars.
>No that's crazy let's just make a whole different sub-system instead that they can't copy.

it's all so fucking stupid.

>>96590249
1e Sidereals didn't have that so much as they had the power to hope they could slip by and not get killed by a Lunar if found out. Quoth the book, "Mistreating the character is mechanically easy but emotionally difficult." Also, a Lunar who does know better is completely unaffected.

>>>Man, you Eclipse players sure are spoiled. You get to sanctify oaths, you get diplomatic immunity, AND you can learn just about any kind of Charm there is. And you're bitching about not being able to learn literally any Charm.<<<

>You'll notice how the developer seems strangely deaf to their complaints. =)

>Much Lunar magic is linked with their inherent power of changing shape. You could learn the Charms, but you couldn't use them, because you're not a Lunar. You're also not going to be able to learn Void-circle necromancy or Sidereal astrology. If you want to beat your game to death with a stick, hey, you all know the Golden Rule. However, I think the reason why those Charms are barred is terribly obvious -- it would unbalance things and it doesn't mesh with the unique nature of Lunars in the setting. If you don't like it, you can change it, but don't come running to the Forum about how broken the Eclipse Caste power is. =)

>>96590879
Yes, was it explained from where Eclipse's charmshare came from? The Doyleist reason, i mean, none of their caste book inspirations seem to be it.

>>96590959
I remember that in 3e it's way better and doesn't have anywhere near as many issues as the 2e version. 2e was like... if it didn't have a certain tag then a solar could take it, if I'm remembering right.

>>96590990
This is how it worked in 1e too, even before the creation of the native tag to nerf it.

>>96586853
>The great curse "doesn't" exist in universe
It very much does, there's even a charm that can detect it.

>>96590099
What a fucking pussy