Separating obtenebration and necromancy in v5 is stupid, don't do that and pick whatever powers you like as Hecata

>>96627879
>You haven't forgotten about the Kuei-jin, have you?
I've come to appreciate Kuei-jin after actually looking into them, I really like how their virtues influence the sort of vampire they are and that they actually interact with the cosmology of WoD unlike western kindred, in a lot of ways they feel like White Wolf's attempt to make a "VtM 2" informed by what they developed in later games.

>>96627937
>v5 is stupid
ftfy

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>>96627879
>TQ
Not really

>>96627879
Why don't the Tremere take greater advantage of thin blooded underlings?
>easy to make, easy boon to bestow on low pyramid members of the clan
>they can still learn blood sorcery so they're still formidable assets
>no one asks any questions if they disappear

>>96628025
This was from the Clan mod, right?

>>96628039
They already have ducheski and ghouled sorcerers that are for more useful during the day so no real reason imo.

God I want to spoon hedgefag so bad

>>96628083
Yeah

Considering how many MET books there are, were people really larping werewolf, mage, changeling and mummy back in the day? I always thought that the huge larp scene was vtm only.

>>96628100
I really like how they did the Sabbat route, voice acting and all. Diablerie was fun too rip Jeanette and VV. But that ''guy reincarnated as a female kuei-jin'' quest chain came out of nowhere and had zero relation to anything lol.

>>96628104
Yeah, we used to larp as werewolves and have furious werewolf sex.

Mage twink surrounded in bara werewolves

>>96628129
They are easier ways to harvest quintessence

>>96628092
Do Tremere's ghoul sorcerors use vitae-powered blood sorcery or do they use regular hemetic sorcery

>>96628123
>''guy reincarnated as a female kuei-jin''
Probably just the writer's barely disguised fetish.

>>96628201
Now that you mention it, it does make sense since the whole quest line is you turbo whoring with your new kuei jin gf. It feels like a bimbofication fetish thing (I played a female sabbat tremere, but I think it plays out the same regardless of sex).

>>96627879
>TQ
Always liked them and felt they could've easily been fixed instead of forgotten.They also had the best bloodlines ending.

>>96628195
The tremere ghouling or embracing sorcerers is a very underutilised thing in the lore. We know that independent sorcs have to hide well, since Tremere are known to target them for recruitment, but we don't know much if anything else. I'd assume they intentionally don't teach them Thaumaturgy and use their static magic instead, since you know how secretive Tremere are about their powers.

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>>96628221
>I played a female sabbat tremere
Based and gay.

>>96628243
why did she do that

>>96628247
Either Dominate or straight Persuasion.

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>>96627879
Would

>>96628195
>>96628227
Now that you guys mention it. Can Vampires wield linear magic that isn't powered by Vitae? (Cross-splat issues aside)

Maybe that's how Baba Yaga did it

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>>96628425
Any full supernatural could explicitly learn Sorcery pre-revised, even mages. Also any sorcerer who would be embraced could develop weird discipline combinations that don't necessarily match the new clan (pic related). Post-revised the only full supernaturals that can learn it are certain Fera like Bastet and Kitsune. I'm pretty sure all Fera still can learn it theoretically though. Vampires have to now convert any paths and rituals they learn into thaumaturgy.

>>96628440
it's a bit weirder in revised. revised sorcerer said st can allow splats to learn sorcery however most books of said splats said that they can't learn sorcery

i guess this is a result of white wolf pushing out more books at the time and communication between groups of writers breaking down

>>96628440
This is why Bastet are the best
>can learn gifts
>can learn gifts from other Fera above Rank 3
>can learn sorcery
>can use Mage/Technocrat wonders up to the third dot
if wyrm corrupted
>can learn Dark Thaumaturgy
>get demonic investments

>>96628025
>>96628123
Personally, It didn't bother me. I think it was a cool quest with a hint of wholesomeoness. It didn't feel preachy and could very well be another freakshow NPC part of the original Bloodlines. You don't linger too much on that aspect of her, and it drives home how it was a morbid, traumatic experience and his/her acceptation of the stolen body was more due to dying inside (pun unintended) and just not caring rather than some empowering statement.

speaking of sorcery and undead are there any statements on if wraiths/risen can or can not use sorcery?

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>>96628709
they can't

>>96628725
thanks

>>96626177
>Almost everything you say is utterly wrong. It doesn’t surprise me that you didn’t realize each book is intentionally using unreliable narration.
holy shit dude you cannot just keep saying "muh unreliable narrator" every time you run into an inconvenient fact from the books. You are so goddamn retarded. You don't even have an argument, I backed up everything I said by pointing out what the Technocracy book says and what the CtD book says. So are both wrong? Is everything oWoD wrong because you say it is? Oh, sorry, so nothing in any book matters? Nothing is canon?
You're even more of a faggot than the technocracytranny. The only thing you know how to say is "it's just in-universe propaganda." So the Technocracy is pushing propaganda against ITSELF? You are the dumbest little shit.

Hunterfag whereforth art thou

>>96629008
we have a hunterfag?

>>96629019
We have a really cool guy who's running Hunter: the Vigil.

>>96629023
Which power level?

>>96628568
isn't there one tribe that can also use fae treasures on top of all you have listed already?

>so the technocracy is pushing propaganda against itself
NTA but explicitly yes. The technocracy is no less divided than any other splat’s factions. The NWO hates the Syndicate and vice versa, the Progenitors and Iteration-X often don’t get along, the Void Engineers think everyone else is dumb but acknowledge they need the Syndicate to function, inter-department rivalries and potential infiltration and corruption by other forces also means everyone has fifth columnists in their ranks, etcetera etcetera. You may as well ask why the Camarilla would push narratives that harm other members of the Camarilla. Power and budget is a zero sum game in the technocracy and it can get cutthroat for it.

>>96628129
>awakened kinfolk*
Fixed for you.

>>96628568
Wasn't there at least one Garou Kinfolk called Sam Hall that got all kind of stuff from other splats, including disciplines and spheres?

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>>96629246
Yep. Sam Haight The Ultimate Badass (tm).
He's a kinfolk garou ghoul with thaumaturgy and has a wand that lets him use sphere magic.

>>96629008
No session so far, I'm just preparing next weeks right now. Current outline is:
>Police manhunt is launched after the Vampire Killer murders 5 people on a commuter train
>One of the five was a PC
>Police are getting calls from all over town about possibly sinister people out after dark
>Most of them are red herrings or false leads, some are calls about the PCs themselves
>VK is hiding in a pillbox in a marsh outside town


The PCs are unknowingly going to be working with a Puppeteer Slasher who is orchestrating most of the murders in town (but not the Vampire Killer, who is a wildcard). He works in the local police department. This Puppeteer wants the VK gone because he's drawing too much attention, and he hopes to use the PCs to help in this. The Puppeteer has developed a mathematical formula that determines if someone will become a vector for supernatural contagion, and he hypnotises and MKUltra's Slashers to do his bidding for him (in addition to their regular killing).

A replacement PC is joining also, a hunter from Ashwood Abbey who is chasing a Werewolf, the last of her pack. She's his white whale, as it were. She's coming to town to intercept someone about to undergo their First Change and hopefully restart her pack (which has been killed by the new PC and his old cell, it's a revenge extermination).

The Puppeteer has determined that this Werewolf is about to transform also, and he (read, me) is currently deliberating which is more important to nip in the bud. A geriatric old mass-murdering Ghoul, or a Werewolf.

>>96629149
Just tier one Cell stuff for now, I'm sure it'll expand over time as the sky-high murder rate in this small Essex town reaches the stratosphere and more Compacts and Conspiracies pay attention.

>>96629326
What about the local Kindred in the wake of the Vampire Killer's grisly escapades? How are they reacting to this catastrophic Masquerade breach and who's getting dusted for letting it happen?

>>96629326
Sounds very complicated. I hope you are dropping clues profusely otherwise the players will never figure out this tangle.

>>96629382
So there were only a few Kindred present in the town to start with, low level fledgelings and an ancillae or two. They embarassingly got wiped out by a pack of amaranthine cats. The last of them was the ancillae who fled on a night train to London and was caught mid-feed by the train conductor PC as part of his backstory (how he first encountered the supernatural), and pushed under the train between the carriages.

I think that when there's an appropriate lull in the story, some Kindred scouts from London etc will come out to find out why the locals aren't dealing with it and find the place an undead ghost town.

>>96629410
It is a bit yes, the PCs have realised that "something" is up but they've not yet pieced the dots together. When the PCs realise how thoroughly the Puppeteer is involved in everything, I want it to be extremely satisfying for them to kill him.

>>96629466
Posted too soon. The Amaranthine Cats are still loose in town, the PCs are concerned about the large packs of animals that intently watch people and seem to be strong enough to scratch wooden doors. They probably think it's a Witch. And the Ancillae that died on the train was the master of the Vampire Killer, who was a Ghoul enforcer who has aged 40 years in a month and lost his mind. When he kills people he will drink as much of their blood as humanly possible, thus the monicker given to him by the press.

For years I've wanted to run a Vampire game and have that as a low level plot point, there's a killer drinking blood out there and the prince wants the PCs to deal with it. They can find the killer and deal with him, or they could just have a word with the editors of the local newspapers and "convince" them to change the guys name.

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>>96627879
>TQ
Nope.

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>>96627879
>TQ
no

>>96628425
>>96628440
The books fucked up magic so hard

The original implication was that:

- awakened true magic is the rarest and most dynamic magic
- most tradition members are linear/static magicians who can’t tell the difference true mages and themselves
- true mages are the ones making the linear magics for non true mages to learn from since they’re not static
- blood magic is just vampire sorcery powered by vitae
- linear magic can be learned by literally anyone and any splat since it’s just magic available to all

>>96629670
where did you get that? the first world of darkness sorcerer book is the one that had the whole table of what each sorcery path turns into after awakening/ embrace/ death and said that splats can not learn it

>>96629682
Sorcery editions aren’t the same. Writers are never on the same page ever.

Splats that can’t learn basic magic is just retarded, sorry. Oil and water mechanics make the world feel artificial as hell.

Weird how they try forcing magic as some genetic or inherent thing rather than external.

It’s like assume a Chinese person can’t learn a specific type of physics “just because”. “No you can’t learn how to make cheese”.

It makes sense for mages in that it’s an as above so below thing, though. Sort of. Consensus and all.

>Oil and water mechanics make the world feel artificial as hell.
And this is why WoD is just as bad. If not worse. Than DnD. Fuck dots.

>>96628129
>too much Wyrm = kill
>too much Weaver = fuck
what do the murder furries do when they meet something with much Wyld in it?

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>>96629736
It's more like:
>Wyrm: Kill
>Wyld: Fuck
>Weaver: Marry

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>>96627879
Let see what ToreChads did
>Arikel is the favorite and the oldest of Caine
>Her brother and sister Antediluvians SEETHE with jealousy because of her beauty and power
>Clan "curse" is boon to make her Kindred feel alive
>inspiration for the Path of Humanity
>Arikel is still up and running without causing too much havoc; might be in Greece
>While the goddess of vanity, she's the most humane vampire in existence.
>Toreadors are the leaders of culture
>so hedonistic, they can topple empires like Rome and Carthage
>Ventures and Brujah still SEETHE at Toreadors because they believe Toreadors caused their pet empires to fall which they did lol
>Started the Renaissance
>started many trends really
>can manipulate kine with just words or just a bit of Presence
>sex appeal so strong even the most cold Tremere fall for them
>Malkavian lovers flock to them
>Gangrel and Nosferatu pine for them
>Venture prize them
>Tzimisce praise them
>Asamites are befuddled by them
>guardians of Elysiums
>throw the grandest parties where if you're not invited, you're basically a nobody
>hide behind the facade of being airheads while manipulating you and others
>leave oldfags in the dust by getting with the times
>best girls are from the Clan of the Rose
When did you noticed Toreadors are the most powerful Clan, /v/?
Also, they might have caused the Holocaust and other genocides to get inspiration from the suffering of Jews and other minorities.

>>96629736
>>96629750
Nah Wyrm is hatefuck and then kill.

>>96629720
Anon, WoD has less oil-and-water mechanics than most ttrpgs. Chronicles is honestly the worst offender on that.
A lot of the early writers were fine with people playing their own sameul height or methusela PC in a less serious game, there were actual dissenting opinion in the staff that opposed the forced "Street Level Only" obsession that took over modern WoD.

>>96629770
>Anon, WoD has less oil-and-water mechanics than most ttrpgs
Stopped reading here

>>96629751
>When did you noticed Toreadors are the most powerful Clan, /v/?
Never, because they still suck ventrue cock whenever they get the chance.
Toreadors are more likely to shirk the actual responsibilities and accountability for failure that come with Real power, instead favoring whoring it up in an eternal party-girl phase.
Ventrue are the only clan masochistic enough to still like noblesse oblige as a whole.

>>96629772
The truth hurts doesn't it?
Another one: D&D 5e is as popular as it is right no because critical roll sold it to the crowd that used to be WoD's main playerbase: theatre rejects egotists that want to larp as a mary-sue main character.

>>96629792
Nah it’s just funny that you think WoD isn’t a mechanical as fuck monstrosity.

>>96629785
>he fell for the classic Glock Glock 3000 version 4.6 with Celerity tongue action blow/teethjob technique of Toreadors
Classic Venture

>>96629191
Except the Technocracy considers the Consensus a good thing, not a bad thing. They're proud of it. All factions within the Technocracy want to enhance the Consensus in some way, they just disagree about how to do so. This is the absurdity of the logic of 'unreliable narrators' as an excuse for every bad thing the Technocracy does. The Technocracy is happily bragging about what it does in its own splatbook, it just doesn't realize that the facts about what it does are inherently disgusting. If you want to call the Technocracy book an unreliable narrator about itself... when it's actively trying to praise itself... then the only conclusion anyone can come to is that the Technocracy is lying about the good things it does and covering up the bad things it does. Which is, ironically, completely accurate to every assessment of what the Technocracy is in other Mage books.

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How can a regular human preach to the Lost Children of God?

Both owod and nwod are pretty bloated ngl

Wod mechanics can be fixed by using MET rules with some minor dice rolling instead of rock paper scissors.

Stinky, fuzzy, obedient werewolf twinks…

>>96629861
There's ten billion people in the world. Only a few tens of thousands (absolutely tops) are supernatural beings. It's a matter of perspective.

All male garou are beefy bratty but submissive bottoms!!!!!

>>96630116
It's funny because it's true. When I play a Kinfolk, me and my ST always joke around how Garou (no matter male or female) are always Subs in bed because of old "powerful people are so stressed in life in general they simply don't wanna do anything in bed" rhetoric.

>>96629979
It’s actually a lot more than that

>>96630149
>Dude I just want to gain some honour points
>I don't care, roll rage to not mutilate the kinfolk woman right now for blue-balling you because she rolled 4 1s

>>96630162
Still a drop in the bucket. Again, perspective.

>>96629751
>ruled by mean girls with failed etsy stores in administrative positions

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Fuck the Technocracy AND fuck sleepers.
This is Marauder territory

>>96630227
Nope
TMZ would capture that shit

>>96629751
I noticed it when I also noticed Toreadors were sexier. It's the Toreadors' world and everyone else is living with it. They deserve the other splats as pets.

>>96630375
TMZ is controlled by the Camarilla and Technocracy.

>>96630361
based
fuck the traditions
fuck the technocracy
fuck the nephandi
fuck paradox, fuck consensus, fuck spheres
marauders are the only true mages

>>96629751
don't forget the whole Constantinople thing
micheal got two other 4th gens so jealous of each other for having his attention that they wanted to kill each other with one becoming so mad his childe killed him and the other got suicidally depressed when he wasn't around anymore, he triggered the inconnu so hard that they not just became a sect just to mess with him they also let him name them/ that sect, he was implied to have had beef with malkav himself and got away unharmed, just magiced his own bloodline into existance despite not having any sort of blood sorcery on his sheet, told the true black hand to fuck off and they could do nothing but fuck off, guided his own diablerist to himself and then still resisted digestion for close to a millenia something that beside him only saulot managed to pull off

>>96630361
>>96630437
based and real

What does this “hedgefag” even look like

>>96630470
Chat Noir as a faun/satyr. Very cute.

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>>96630470

>>96630470
Whatever you would imagine a German male escort to look like.

>>96630149
Garou are still living beings with a lot of stress.

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Hello, do you have a moment to discuss our lady and lifeblood, Goddess Gaia?

>>96629751
quick rundown on that genocide bit?

>>96630952
no, werewolves are cringe. go away

>>96630952
Depends- is that a euphemism for you dragging me into a cave, pinning me against a hibernating bear, and cornholing the civilization right out of me?

so i'm not entirely sure to how generations are so consistently on the same number when history and generations and family are a lot messier than that

like what if in some 1Xth century, some bored moldy methuselah decided to sire someone just for the fuck of it, thereby creating like a 5th or 6th gen vampire born in the last millenia? and that vampire could go on to sire once maybe every century, and so would their childe. and now you have a small bloodline of very low generation of vampires running around in modern nights

and the opposite could happen too, like what if some bloodline just went on a biting spree and made a bunch of thinbloods long before the modern nights

like with how messy history is there's no way everyone sired tonight is on their 13th generation

>>96630952
Sorry bro I've almost finished my chow mein that the supermarket only sells in plastic that can't be recycled that I had to heat in the microwave that's powered by the local gas plant that might one day become something a bit better for the environment and made with plastic that I can't recycle.

>>96631161
Well even in the modern nights, there's still a decent amount of young 8th and 9th generation vampires, and even very rarely 7th. For the reason you state. But unless the Antes start siring again, there is a theoretical die-out of vampires. Every time someone of potent blood dies without being diablerized, that's it. There is a loss in generation that can only be restored if an even thicker blooded vampire embraces. Given how many ancients slip into multi-century torpor, that also reduces the number of childer they could create if indeed they were so inclined to embrace someone at all. There's also the fact that most vampires do not in fact survive to even 100. A fledgling 6th gen is in a ton of danger, as they're the rarest treat of all. Easy diablerie of a potent-blooded vampire. Speaking of, diablerie isn't 100% efficient. The rules change often, but usually it only takes you up a single gen. So if a 12th eats a 10th, they're only 11th. Oh, and not to mention, the really old vampires usually keep a low profile around younger ones, and a 6th gen neonate strutting around could be used to trace back to their sire. But, you do have a fair criticism. Theoretically a clan or bloodline could bounce back from just a single 4th gen going on a spree, even if practically having that many young but potent generation vampires running around may cause more harm than good.

I can't really defend the thinblood thing though. Some people like to embrace like crazy, we shoulda had thinbloods very early on. Late V20 tried to introduce the idea of "cyclical gehenna" where there's big blood purges every so often that "reset" things. While an interesting idea, it doesn't really work because the timescale is still way too long.

The practical issues of Generation is why some people like to make it a bit more mysterious and less publicly understood at their table.

>>96631161
yes that's what the generation background is for? if you are allowed to use the true black hand book options you can start as fledgling right now with a 4th gen sire

13th generation is just the most common one right now

>>96630871
That's what I said, anon.

>>96631161
Jyhad and cyclical Gehenna are both explanations for this. Low generation vampires feel the curse of Caine much more strongly than high generation vampires and are more driven to murder their descendants and antecedents. Lower generation vampires are basically compelled to see each other as competition and kill the shit out of each other and an experienced low generation vampire who embraces someone does so with the innate knowledge that they're creating a competitor, a childe who will either kill them or be killed by them.

>>96630871
Justifying why they're are bottom submissives in bed.

>>96629751
This fucking stupid haircut is so fucking shit. Why the fuck zoomers push this haircut SO FUCKING MUCH?

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>xe can't give live birth
哈哈 哈哈 哈哈 哈哈 哈哈
Stupid 洋鬼子 will die out in the next century.

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>>96631644
The undercut has been a staple for decades, Anon.

>>96631161
Are you playing V5? Because all of this shit is easily explained in V20.

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>>96631657
That's a different haircut. This zoomer shitty haircut is new and everytime some dumb zoomer artists wants to make a haircut goes for this one. Is so fucking uninteresting and boring.

>>96631016
Atttridu Toreador and the normal ones were getting uninspired by the current state of the world of their time so they thought why not cause some suffering since suffering is a great motivation for art?

>>96630952
Honestly, I like Gaia but truly, there is nothing to actually talk about her outside of metaplot stuff.

Like, Gaia doesn't do much shit. Sure, Kami are fun and all but I feel like for a being who is alive and known factor, she is too uninvolved. She doesn't have the excuse of say, God (might be gone, might be dead, might be watching, might be respecting Free Will etc) but still doesn't do shit.
Just guiding the Garou Nation a bit would solve like, 90% of the problems.

>>96631673
For me i only really like it in cyberpunk settings. Just seems dumb in other genres or irl.

>>96631646
Neither can Ming, crusty Yin-focused bitch

>>96631689
Gaia isn't an actor, she's an abstraction. The sum total of everything in the Tellurian.

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>>96631765
That's just one of the belief about Gaia. A hotly debated one among Garou (and other Fera)
Gaia has been everything from an active participant, a marriage candiate and a girlboss who hid away, according to several different Shapeshifter lore. My favorite is Bastet, where Gaia goes to beg Cat for mating.

This even includes the one ToJ that has the Wyrm finding where Gaia has hidden and nearly killing her.

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>>96631850
>My favorite is Bastet, where Gaia goes to beg Cat for mating.
this is a double post but I need to post this

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So after a discussion, the progressives playing and writing Mage unironically believe this about Technocrats:

>do no wrong
>are all powerful
>have (virtually) infinity resources
>are simply too stupid to use their infinite power to do things
>they could totally kill all vampires right now but are just too stupid to know they should kill all vampires
>they could just kill an entire splat with infinity robots but are just too stupid to do it
>hate nuclear power
>have nothing to do with wars or the military industrial complex
>have nothing to do with big money controlling society
>the Syndicate respects women and trans rights
>are completely innocent when technology is used for anything bad
>somehow being stupid while all-powerful has zero consequences

Mage is dead, isn't it?