No Respite EditionPrevious thread:>>96662213>Legacies:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Thread Question:Do you miss sweeping advances?
>>96681508>TQNot really. Vacuum Cleaners made them obsolete.
>>96681508>Do you miss sweeping advances?No, i was not a big fan of getting a squad wiped out, i do however LOVE the gun down and or pursue.
>>96681525you're hit, you're dead
>>96681533I would love it if it actually functioned and you could gun down disengaging targets at least
Which edition is best?
>>966815952, but 1 is pretty good too. Certainly not 3.40k 4th edition is the real answer.
>>96681602so i if i read visions of heresy, 1.0, and then 2.0, i'll be set?you wouldn't lie to me would you? especially not on the internet?
>>96681508>Do you miss sweeping advances?No, not really. It enabled some real fucky shenanigans, I've exploited it plenty of times.
I know it seems obvious but I really do like gal vorbak red into word bearers red, it's that nice very dark red that can't be mistaken for blood angels or matte thousand sons
>>96681629>i'll be set?Set for what? 2nd edition is the best version of the game. 1st edition is also a good game. I don't know what you're looking to be set for that would require you to read both as well as an art book?
>>96681674gorgeous hue. clotted vitae concerning the red is very on-point for bearers and lots of the near-purple of GVBR is making its way through too.
Should I hold off on buying the plastic MKII Assault? Will it get cheaper in a combat patrol?
So what's the verdict on these guys?
>>96681809busted
>>96681809A tier in small squads, S-tier among deathstar elites if you want to deathstar, rather awkward to deploy either way because they take up so much transport space and aren't easy to attach characters to even if you have room. Small squads need to worry about losing a model to most of their peer elite TEQ squads before they can swing, because that ruins their damage output, large squads don't care much about losing a single man and just punch away.I'm tempted to Rewards of Treason 3 of them with the flamers and dual fists and just use them as a hail mary deep strike, since you can't Reposition away from deepstriking flamer squads so they just get to zorch a marine squad with the AP3 disintegrator cones rather than worrying about not getting to charge.
>>966815951e for style and depth, 3e for tightness of core rules. I have hope they'll iron some 3e's jank out because it seems a lot easier to write good missions than it would have been to unpick the mess that was relative unit balance in 1e and 2e, and I really like Volley Fire and standardised reactions.
>>966815952 is the worst, by a lot. 1 is the best.
>>96681809They phuckMy disciple donuted a paragon of battle librarian earlier today>>96681850I prefer disintegrators and shredders for maximum flexibility
>>96681629Only required reading is the relevant black books for the legions you like, you don't read visions you just look at the weird artwork.
>>96681964You don't find the disintegrators too pricy? Feels rough to stack the MSU tax, teleport transponder and then even more for guns on a 3-model unit, the per-model cost gets a bit nuts, but I suppose they are pretty decent guns when you don't care much about overload.
>>96682019AP3 makes them a threat to MEQ but S8 AP2 makes them a threat to pretty much everything
Question about allying demons for WB. Can you have a herald lead a malefic WB unit for the totem and 3+ shroud from telekinesis?
>>96682125You could, but why not just a telekinesis librarian?
>>96682131Is there a way to make him malefic without true believers? Was looking for something better than the diabolist/Zardu to lead gal vorbek and the new termis.
>>96681629Anyone who says 1st was best played an OP faction/army style like pieplatespam and is bootyblasted 2nd took it away from them. You can fix 1st but it's a project. 2nd has issues - Brutal, dreadnoughts, SAux and Mech are a bit bleh - but it pretty much works and it's easy to houserule. Anyone who says 3rd is a good game in any way whatsoever is either trolling or legitimately braindead - both 1st and 2nd just need a few tweaks to function(assuming you don't play with rancid sweaty tourneyshitters, but competitive players ruin every game so that's hardly unique), but 3rd needs a ground-up rewrite. Missions in general, scoring in particular, terrain rules, LOS rules, vehicle damage rules, the dumb Gambit system - it's a complete shitshow in the absolute fundamentals and writing your own game from scratch would be easier than fixing 3rd so it isn't a boring Two Turn Wonder.
>>96682221How many games of 3rd have you played
>>96682221>makes a big deal of two units in 1.0>completely skims over how 2 entire armies in 2.0 have systemic problems purposefully designed to cripple them into being ally only You play imperial fists don't you
CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER
>>966822213.0 has good THINGS in it, but over all is poop.3.0 did right by blast and vehicle rules and ill stand by that.
Anybody got a PDF of Forges of Saturn? After a decent quality image of the Phraetus Anointed Conclave colour plate
>>96682221Your time is done butter loney old man, move on
>building veteran assault marines>find an 11th base that came in the box for some reasonAnyway, Mauls or Lightning Claws? I'm not sure how often these guys will be bumping into TEQs at all.
>>96682570>Mauls or Lightning Claws?What legion?
>>96682570Lucky you. >Mauls or Lightning Claws?Why not both?
>>96682570>find an 11th base that came in the box for some reasonnow you have to cast a marine with oyumaru and milliput in order to occupy it
>>96682586>Why not both?Points allocation is pretty tight, like yeah I got the upgrades kit but I don't think I can arm the full squad without making concessions elsewhere. On the other hand, I'm already likely postponing a 3k list I had planned in trying to see what will happen to Cataphractii and Tartaros kit re-releases later down the line.>>96682577AL, however less orthodox. They'll be paired with a Jump Champion, and I suppose both him and the squad could potentially be interchangeable with the Praetor and retinue versions.>>96682605Suppose I'll have to see if I got spare bits.
Giving everyone random bullshit is way more fun, I don't care if it takes longer to roll
>>96682670yo i thought my pr00nted twin barrel jump rigs were obscenely large holy fucking shit
>>96682670>still no sign of Mk2 Assaults and Fellblade in AustraliaWHERE IS IT
>>96682221>Missions in general, scoring in particular, terrain rules, LOS rules, vehicle damage rules, the dumb Gambit system - it's a complete shitshow in the absolute fundamentals and writing your own game from scratch would be easier than fixing 3rd so it isn't a boring Two Turn WonderIt's really incredible how assblasted retards are by progressive scoring systems. Even 3 editions of 40k later absolute mongoloids are still flagrantly cockblasted by the fact that they cant win a game because they cant comprehend tailoring a list around scoring rather than standing around rolling dice and making shooting noises with their mouth.
>>96682670Specifically this unit has 2 D-pistols, a grav pistol, 2 volkite serpentas, 1 LC, 1 twin LC, 1 fist, 2 chainaxes, 2 power axes, 2 power mauls, a power lance, and 4 shieldsI don't give a shit how long it takes me to resolve this squad's fight phase it sparks joy. I do not care that this loadout is like 350 points.
>>96682686end of turn scoring is fucking dumb, especially in a version of the game that is fewer turns, has generally higher VP per objective available, and insane mobility of said scoring units.Being able to rhino rush objectives T1 for a near unassailable lead is so utterly retarded, but this has nothing to do with 'progressive' scoring.
>>96682670Absolutely basedBut cant you just say they're all X or do you always work on WYSIWYG
>>96682705>Being able to rhino rush objectives T1 for a near unassailable lead is so utterly retarded, but this has nothing to do with 'progressive' scoring.If your opponent can Rhino rush and score, you can rush them back, score on Vanguard, and hold the objective yourself.Put more dudes with more scoring on objectives. Sorry your pile of vets and tank brigade cant outscore a 100pt unit it cant wipe. Focus on the mission rules, units are costed with that in mind.
>playing over objectives>playing for a set number of turns>not just playing until one side has nothing left on the fieldi want (you) to admit that there is effectively nothing about the objective and mission system that has any resemblance or overlap with the sorts of things depicted in 30k fiction
>>96682718If you're not playing WYSIWYG why are you playing horus heresy
>>96682723b-but what about the tournaments?
>trying out pyro daemons>playing against thallax/krios heavy mech>I just lob Panic(1) blasts at all his thallax and ursurax (they have to roll below a 5 or get routed)>my sovereign just sweeps up his ursurax blob>hierarch takes care of most of a thallax squad but dies and explodes to kill off the rest and some random tech priest>get line(3) two turns in a row>brutes eat up all his krios shooting and lost three models over the course of the game>he never passes a cybertheurgy check because his checks are at like -4 due to difficulty and FearI'm convinced daemons are still garbage but it's hilarious how poorly it went for mechbro
>>96682723Anon pyrhhic victories are the most common 40k win scenario in the lore what the fuck are you on about
>>96682719If you cannot rush objectives turn 1, you will almost never beat someone you can.Vanguard doesnt help unless you can reliably status every enemy unit that's scoring since they can just react off the objective otherwise, and that's not victory unless as above, you also have t1 objective rushers.The Game is extremely gay when it is just objective tag.Start of turn objective scoring means you actually need to HOLD objectives instead of bumrush them.
>>96682813How many games of HH3 have you played?
>>96682818Alright you're nogames, got it.I know this because my army is basically mass infantry on foot, and I mechanically cannot win games since I can't score turn 1, and once my opponent clogs up some objectives I cannot catch up on points. Once my infantry make it up the board.
>>96682813>>96682833Did you even bother to read the fucking rules? You score objectives in the very last sub-phase of your turn. Also some missions allow you to place at least one objective wherever the fuck you want within reason. From the top of my head, the first mission from the core book is one such mission. You are either arguing in bad faith or just retarded.
>>96682901?What are you talking about anon?I am arguing that end of turn scoring is shit, that is how the rule works, no one has said otherwise.You are either retarded or off your meds because I unno what you're trying to suggest.
Can I beg for an Adeptus Titanicus pdf here? I can't even play the game where I'm from, I just like reading the lore and the rules and theorycrafting. Bit wretched, I know.
>>96682686prog scoring is boring and encourages MSU, the antitheses of heresy, hope this sticks to the mirror finish of your med riddled brain
Is there a place for Despoilers this ed?
>>96682948> Start of turn objective scoring means you actually need to HOLD objectives instead of bumrush them.Who’s the retard here?
>>96683121Wouldn't it give a super edge to all the armies that can infiltrate on to objectives or get on them with a scout move? also my moms Centurion.
>>96682077what about the plasma bombards?
>>96683131your mom plays death guard?
>>96683131I feel Infiltrate is busted if you deploy first because you deploy your infiltrators at the same time as the rest of your army (like what?). I play mostly AL, so believe me I’ve already come up with nasty stuff that I’m refusing to use unless my opponent is a waac faggot that needs to be taught a lesson. Nice mini anon! Tell your mom to keep it up
>>96683154we do not play, as she doesn't have an army just models she likes. >>96683166yeah, I had a feeling that infiltrate is very strong. At least the AL inducti can't infiltrate , because gods help up us, if they could.
Man I love bitz shopping.
>>96683196We all do Anon. Almost as much as I love Fauna.
>>96681809That people building them like this are dumb fuck nogamers cause they’re kickass warp infused warsuits not discount vakrah jal
>>96683203I'd been fucking about with SA for a couple of months thinking that was going to be my next project but something was missing. Limited modularity, lacking (good) third party options, same handful of kits being repurposed for different roles, lack of flavour. Decided to finally collect some White Scars, and suddenly I've spent £100 on bits to customise and add flavour and uniqueness before I've even really begun.
>>96682753On a more serious note, how many people actually play (mostly/exclusively) tournaments?I sort of assumed most people played nonsense one-offs or narrative games for fun.
>>96681674sure though it isn't what the WB hue is described as
>>96683250In my area the difference between tournament or even games, and a regular pick up game at store is that, at the store you are not getting any prizes and you pay for one game per table and not 4-5 games.
How big is the Tarantula? Would the turret part fit nicely on a tank, or a Dreadnought of some type?
>>96682670I'm torn on what to take on ten red hand destroyers, considering volkite or disintegrator pistols, chainaxes and some caedere stuff. Wonder if a heavy dinsintegrator would be cool too.
>>96683296it fits in to a razorback/whirlwind/scorpius turret mount. Same way the macro canon from the starter box fits on a Kratos.
>>96683296
>>96683312I hope we see a Super- Sicaran with the Araknae.
>>96682245>implying IF are bad in HH1Alan kept them balanced but they were still on the stronger side of the Legions.
>>96683114in Spartans
>>96683176>yeah, I had a feeling that infiltrate is very strong. At least the AL inducti can't infiltrate , because gods help up us, if they could.dynat can grant infiltrate to a squad he's inno idea if the inductii rule still works though if hes part of it
>>96683462But if you take a spartan, why not take terminators or legion terminators of some sort. Or even a powerful power armoured unit some legion have. Heck even a pretor command squads would be a better blender.
How do people run their DeathGuard armies in 3.0 ? Besides the 40 tacticals of course. Do Wardens get used? I like their inducti because of the flamers/rottors and range shoting checks immunity. Would a force of 4 tacticals in rhinos, Two TSS with flamers in rhinos as base of army be okey? Supported with maybe some 2-3 units of HSS with MM/Lascanons and then some sort of melee units of terminators/command squads. Or is DG a tank heavy faction in 3.0?
>>96683114I think they are pretty good for throwing at enemy tacticals on objectives. It's a Line 2 unit but they are actually good in melee with a few power weapons and they can now charge out of rhinoWhat is there not to like?
Anyone got an upload of The Saturn journal yet?
>>96683482because you can get 20 Despoilers in a Spartanthat's why they won't make a Veteran Despoiler squad
>>96683365it looks ridiculous, the recoil from the top guns (or just all four together) would knock it back so hard the front would rise upeven as a flak tank like the Hydra it would still need stabilisers, and the weight of the Hydra's guns is much further forward on a chassis that also distributes much more weight toward the front
>>96683608>>96683365oopsh, forgot picshur
>>96683121I said that would be a better system than what we have, use your eyes buddy.
>>96683510No. All the rules pages have been leaked, but no scan has been made of the full thing. Posting fluff transcriptions is discouraged until such a time that the journal has been fully scanned and shared ITT.
>>96683619>>96683608>orks after pillaging a second founding chapter's armouriesIt's retarded but I love it
>>966815951e, playing today. I can't do 3e, 2e was fine, but when I played 1e on a whim with my friend recently I couldn't believe how much I missed it. I'll play with my 4 man group and at least have fun over here.
>>96683619based
>take skorr (normal delegatus also works but skorr also has MoTL)>take his apex detachment as officer cadre>take rewards of treason as his prime benefit>take the phraestus anointed conclave as his rewards unit>take a saturnine centurion in the apex detachment prime slot>make him malefic via the prime benefitbam, AL can have a character joining them
>>96682670Bane?
>>96683900if it weren't for the retardly high profile the crew bubble creates I could get behind this as an alt turret armament for Kratos
Do tacticals really need vexillas anymore? Any equipment at all?
>>96684127Any unit that can have a nuncio-vox should have a nuncio-vox, but especially scoring units. 10pts to almost auto-negate a status per round is great value. Vexillas and scanners are as-and-when you need them or have spare points, I don't bother with either on tacs.
>>96683176Good mom. I can't get mine to paint her minis.
any ideas for parts to kitbash saturnine terminators with? stuff like headswaps etcmaybe a 40k centurion helmet could fit?
>>96684057Life has known stranger things. >>96684214My mom works as an art and interior designer. So it is bit of cheating. She always says, the models are too small for her, and she doesn't like to paint tanks and air planes. She does like painting those nude busts from Russian companies.
>>96684372I used drills and heads from the centurion kit.
>>96684378Dakka Dakka Dakka
>>96684385so you have a photo anon?
>>96683482You're correct, Despoilers in a Spartan is a waste of both units.
>>96681809Shredders and fists are the best weapons on them, right?
he's a big guy
>>96684479I so wish there was a left arm option for the kit, other then the guns.
>>96684408
>>96683900Anon you are not supposed to use 60 grit sandpaper on miniature models
>>96684444Quads of truth, I guess. But still sad. Deploying 20 armoured psychos from a metal box should be kino
Any point in having a melee sergeant in a Tac squad anymore?
>>96684618Terranic Greatsword.
>>96684618There are very few reasons>you're making him a master sgt>you can grab a reaping blow weapon>your local opponents tank shock a lot
>>96684618I wouldn't bother unless you made him a master sergeantPower weapons are too expensive for a 1A WS4 model imo
>>96684618Maybe with melta bombsbut that's very dependent on the enemy letting you use them.They can be useful if there's tarantulas in the way
>>96684618Ya playing older editions where a dumbass challenge system doesn’t exist and sergeants have 2 attacks.
>>96684618There wasn't any before either
>>96684711You do it because it’s cool
>>96682221Or had friends that could self police and understood that games are better when both payers have fun? Perhaps, dare I say, even more socially functional randoms too?
I'm turning my stolen AL Phraetus into allied WB Phraetus for next game. Should I try out a foot blob of Procurators or based retard heavy chainswordmaxxed Inductii?
>>96682769They lost in their turn 1 movement phase and complained about the game being broken because they don't understand how scoring works a few threads back.
>>96684871Try the procurators out, I'm interested to see if they get to score any meat points when they can't attach characters to give them extra killiness.
>>96684681You mean the editions where tactical sergeants could get singled out in a challenge and always got their shit kicked in by characters and better melee sergeants before they got a chance to anything?
>>96684925Not my problem. Decline the challenge in shame or die on your feet like a man.
>>96684618A tactical squad with melee weapon on the sergeant is more likely to win the combat against a tactical squad without one. Also it makes the sergeant look real cool.
>>96684905>>96684871I actually crunched the numbers right quick and they seem cataclysmically bad in terms of points: A 12-man squad (to fill a rhino) with 2 power weapon procurants, 1 power fist, and 1 warpfire is 295, or 355 with rhino tax. My fully kitted, deep striking, twin disintegrating, disruption fisting, particle shredding phreaks are 385. Inductii are probably unironically better, unless you do a full prucrator blob wither in a spartan or with jumppacks, but wouldn't a herald attached to melee elites do that better and for less points?Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.
>>96684599With WE inductii and a butcher surgeon, it can be. Still not totally worth it but they're at least effective. With just regular despoilers, especially non WE, it's a joke.
New Horus Heresy but not Horus Heresy novel coming
>>96684599>>96685389BA Inductii with heavy chainaxes, a champ, and a 2nd character to round out are no slouch either
>>96685404I can't wait to do a ctrl+f search for the tally of "saturnine" mentions.
>>96682234>How can you know you don't like eating shit if you haven't tasted it?I attended my local club and watched the five people who insisted on moving to 3rd play their games for several weeks in a row. Only one of those games made it to turn 4, and 90% were handshook at the end of turn 2. I observed all of the issues I described happening in practice during play.There are now two guys at the local club who insist on playing 3rd, but I'm sure that's completely unrelated...>>96682245>TSons, Custodes, Mech, Pieplatespam Auxilla, and Pieplatespam Astartes is "two units">being slightly suboptimal in some builds is "crippled"The comment is funny, because your brand of juvenile hyperbole is textbook pissboi behaviour>>96682323Vehicle rules are a mess as well man. It's objectively a better decision to try and glance vehicles to death than to try killing them outright because in a 4 turn game being almost guaranteed to saddle a vehicle with a bunch of status effects that render it functionally useless is clearly a better choice than long-shot odds of destroying it outright but if you fail it remains at basically full combat effectiveness.>>96682452New Good Old Bad is not an argument, you novelty-poisoned fetus.>>96682686>Even 3 editions of 40k laterAnd so the 40Kid reveals itself. If you want to play Smashie Action Men Together Pew Pew then 40K already exists, there's no argument for importing your braindead >I stand on the magic circle longer I win"tactics" to 30K.>>96684861That argument also applies to 2nd though and so has no bearing on whether 1st or 2nd is "better".
>96685449wow that's a whole lotta wordstoo bad I ain't reading 'em
>>96685418**OVER 9000**
>>96685404It hurts to warch this shitty nu artworks. Look at how small is the RG helmet.
>>96685404Ah yes, the only reasonable and useful marine will be the RG. The blind rage IH will cause the most issues. The Sally will be useless outside of melee.
>96685449mucho texto
>mfw i just wanted someone to say "2.0" so i don't feel silly buying an AoD box in feb
>>96685449Hard disagree on vehicles. This is the first edition that vehicles have felt like actual vehicles since like 5th ed. If you point anti armor weapons at a vehicle it does its job, if you try and plink it to death it does not.
>>96685683>Needs the opinion of random people on the internet to justify his decisionsFucking hell how pathetic.
>>96685268The Procurators seem like they would be fine without Bitter Duty, since then they're the squad version of a Herald that exist to stand around and die reasonably slowly while the attached murder character wins challenges for points, but they're kind of tricky on their own. Stacking buffs to create a super-herald in a reasonably cheap command squad who can go win challenges for 2vp each is barely more expensive."Phreaks" is a fun shorthand, might steal that. 315pts for three deep strikers with dual fists and shredders is my current AL plan, although at that point between the headhunter bomb, seekers and karacnos I probably have too much anti-infantry AP3 and need to find some serious anti-tank.
>>96685749don't be mad no one wants to read your master's thesis on why your a faggot
>>96685769>yourOh shit what are you doing handing that twat victory on a silver platter like that?
>the uptight faggot who can't take a joke also needs proof read other postssomeone needs to smoke a joint and work on his army
>>96685799No one on this board has an army unless proven otherwise, doubly do for dumb anime posters
>>96685769> Tranime image>>96685777The other anon already won
Which sponsons for a grav Predator?
>>96686059Heavy bolters or volkite culverins, since it will be shooting at infantry most of the time. Heavy flamers if you got balls of steel to drive close to apply another status effect
>>96685799Weed is low IQ bro
>>966861054chan is already bottom of the barrel man
>>96686153True, most of us here can barely read.
>>96686209>barely
>>96685919>>96685947>complaining about animegive the weed a go to chill out
>>96683467> composed entirelySo no. But you can always rhino rush it and disembark afterI’m just home from an event at a LGS and we were moving after disembarking. I think that’s how it works now but I’m not sold on it. I need to sit down and study the rulebook to make sure that’s correct or not.
>>96683637And I’m no calling you out on that. I actually agree with your point on progressive scoring. But get your fucking facts straight godammit
>>96686271I was being generous.
>>96683121...you?End of turn scoring means you get vp just for reaching the objective in your turn - you either have to be faster than the other guy, or clear their units off of it, but it doesn't matter if your scoring unit survives the next turn because you instantly get VP and your opponent cannot do anything outside of reactions to counter play you at all.Start of turn scoring means you have to secure the objective, then survive the entire enemy turn and still be holding the objective to score. So yes, current system encourages bumrush, start of turn scoring doesn't.
>>96686086Probably HB then. I'm flipping between bolters and las, mostly; flamers are a bit too short ranged for my taste and culverins don't seem worth the surcharge.
>>96686522>culverins don't seem worth the surchargeWounding MEQ on a 2+ instead of a 3+ alone is worth the +5 points per culverin. Deflagrate is just the cherry on top.
Speaking of predators, how do plasma preds look? D2 Breaching 4+ actually looks useful, though a flood of W3 saturnines that it wounds on a 3+ would make it kinda pointless.
>>96686589Eh, fair enough. I'm in a bizarrely Auxilia heavy setting (30-40% of players here) so I was weighing it against the AP loss as well.
>>96686612There still will be other infantry that needs to die. It's not like saturnine command squads mean games will be flooded by nothing but saturnine terminators, just like there are only 10 thunder hammer terminators at most in the majority of games being played (no matter what /hhg/ likes to think)
>>96686612Its a really good load out for them. Large blast D2 Breaching 2 is a good amount of damage.
>>96685683Anon the AoD box is pretty good value if you want the kits in it. No one ever takes the book into account when running the numbers. The book is always free
>>96686612I'd go with the conversion beamer instead to be honestIt's way more likely that you are going to be shooting at normal marines than terminators and for that the >15" stats work better than the plasma and if you get into the >30" range then you can be the bane of terminators and saturnine. S9 D3 is also not bad antitank
>>96686612really good. I used one and it was great. does its job well.
>>96687065Yeah that's a good point. Probably conversion beamer + culverins for one, and I'll run the other as 4x lascannons.So for 630 points I've got an armored detachment of:4x lascannon predatorHeavy C-beam + volkite culverine predatorTwin accelerator + culverin sicaranTwin lascannon sicaran venator+whatever pintles I give stuff, and I might spring for the iron hands auto-repair buff for them. My sicaran is plastic so I just have the autocannon turret for it, but something with rapid tracking and skyfire seems nice. I do have a third predator I could fit instead of the sicaran if it doesn't work out.
Why must heavy chainswords be so expensive ($)
>>96687524Can you use heavy chainaxes instead? Not an option for despoilers, but since they come 4 to a box for the mk 2 assaults you're likely to see more of them out there.
hmmmm, a GK helmet inside saturnine armour...kinda works?what do you guys think?
>>96687578Looks like shit
>>96687578Looks good, but you better be doing knights errant
>>96684479How well do the weapons lend to magnetizing?
>>96687662The kits come only with 1 of each ranged weapon per saturnine, so if you wanna double up you need pr00nts. But it looks easy enough to magnetise.
>>96687672I'd probably do gauntlet + weapon anyway. Got Saturnine in the pile of shame, and given the command squad existing now, could probably do it with the spare Praetor weapons too.
>>96687017i think the models in aod are dope.saturnine pattern is the first space marine armor mark i don't like.with combat patrols becoming a thing, getting mkii and mkii assault is going to be annoying.
>>96687643would be good for them, yesi'm not though, i'm just looking at head options to give my guys, spice them up a little so they're not all generic
>>96687578Interesting, though the straight lines clash with the rounded design language Maybe add some pteruges and a tabard to have more straight lines
>>96687701I'm building a 6 saturnine command squad with melee weapons (pr00nts) and another squad of 6 saturnine terminators that will be magnetised with all the possible weapon combinations.
>>96687766Yeah you're probably less fucked than I am if you wanted something like dual fists, since I imagine that involves multiple Praetor boxes for right-handed fists. God I hope whatever do-overs GW does on the other Terminators actually infer more weapon options, the logistics of getting certain wargear is a pain in the ass enough to incentivize improvising an area for SLA prooting. Only conniption would be trying to get some manner of visual consistency between a scattered variety of sculpts.
>>96681809I haven't even played this shit edition but it's a cool unit unique to my legion so I like it?
>>96687876>dual fistsNah I'm going 4 chosen with saturnine axe, two with saturnine hammer. Don't care how good it is, I just think it's cool.
desu I feel like the fist is good enough, I'm giving my command squad a disintigrator. S6 D3 melee is fine and I don't have to print hammers.Shoot disintigrator at 2+ save, shoot the particle flamer at 3+ save.
THEY SENT 'EM OFF TO THAT SLAUGHTERBABY MOMMA NO FATHERHE WAS HANGIN' ROUND THEM MURDERERS AND THEM PROSTITUTES AND THEM ROBBERSYEAHTHEM DOPE FIENDS AND THAT WATERYEAHWIT' ANGEL DUST IN THEY NOSTRILSYEAHTHEY HIT HIM UP WITH THAT CHOPPERSHE WAS HOLIN' HIMIN HER HANDSJUST LIKE STIGMATAYEAH
>>96688061Bitch must be 140cm tall, god damn
>>96688104imagine
>>96688104Marinefags have always had trouble reconciling that their dudes simply aren't that much taller than the average person.
>>96687766>I'm building a 6 saturnine command squad with melee weapons (pr00nts)may I humbly ask for the melee weapons file? need an axe for my phraestus
>>96688324>https://gofile <insert dot> io/d/xL6ixYIf somebody asks you didn't get this from me, you hear
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/k8mp5dme/warhammer-art-through-the-years-space-marines/>pick shitty phobos art to rep nuhammeruh what did they mean by this?
>>96688428I wish BA were as cool as that first art makes them look
>>96687578looks great anon.
>>96688370ty lad
Thinking about it, an axe phraetus who is not the disciple might be good. He smacks before enemy fisters and benefits from reaping blow.
>>96688717Personally like to imagine it with the +2 str and toughness from biomancy too
>>96688446It's just Karlaen and Death Company. Those exact designs were all lifted straight from the tabletop.
>>96688811But 30k BA don't have the Death Company. Their whole chapter identity is "we're sad because dad died" but dad is still around in 30k so they're bland
>>96682432I’m guessing maybe next week someone will post it
Apparently the Black Sun-looking marking on the Phraetus Anointed's greaves is the chapter icon of the Dark Heart, Kor Phaeron's personal chapter. Which, as he is First Captain, would plausibly make the Dark Heart the First Chapter of the Word Bearers. Since that tends to be how things work in HH.
>>96688730non-Malefic using Blessings or Curses on Malefic units should have a heavier penalty than the basic risk of Perils
>>96688978Why though?Can also buff them with +1 WS and BS with an allied dark mech magos.
>>96682432I have no idea how to use my scanner settings but I have one so here it is
>>96687923That's cool too. I don't know how good double fists actually is, but it still sounds like a fun option on the modeling side, since nothing else about really has double power fisting.
Anons I am doing a thing, just needs some sponged on wear and tear and the party bus is ready to necrotek HPs back while Iron fathers bash heads and repair like champs.
>>96689038The official Phraetus colors are so cringe
>>96688978A biomancer in the squad is going to be True Believers, so they'd probably ignore that regardless. The -1 penalty for casting Cybertheurgy on Malefic units applies regardless of whether the caster is Malefic, so it is slightly harder to bypass.
>>96689190A magos with cyber-familiar isn't gonna notice that -1 on the cast lmao
Are gorgon terminators at all useful? They're 200 points compared to the 150 points of 5 tartaros, and yeah they have FNP but are still WS4. They're A3 instead of A2 which is nice. But I'm not sure what role WS4 terminators really have.
>>96689201-2 for difficulty, -1 for Malefic, -1 to cast cross-faction, +2 cyber-familiar brings you to Int 7 on a normal magos, that's only 58%. You could remove the cross-faction penalty by turning the Magos malefic and joining the unit, but then you have no deep strike or transport and will never get into contact with anything that possesses a brain cell. Even with the highly likely Combat Veterans allied Magos you're still at 72% outside the unit, 84% inside, so the -1 is at least doing something.
Who are the good guys in 30k? Solar Auxilia? Custodes?
>>96689354Word Bearers.
>>96689354sons of horus
>>96689354word bearersworld eaters following shortly behind in magnitude of heroism and they acted in concert outright
>>96689360>>96689385Truly they are the most noble warriors for trying to avenge Monarchia>>96689363I can see the appeal of these good guys. If not for that traitorous villain Loken, they could have truly saved the universe from the Emperor's cruelty
>>96689354Word Bearers
>>96689354Alpha LegionThis too is a lie
>>96689504or is it?
>>96689504>>96689512There is a non-zero chance that there was a whole campaign of Alpha Legion disguised as another Legion fighting Alpha Legion disguised as a different Legion
>>96689574
>>96689038thanks bud!
On the one hand, I should give my Word Bearer Optae a thunder hammer and slap him in a Despoiler squad. On the other, giving him a Tainted Weapon and slapping him in a 30-40-man levy squad to grandstandmaxx would be really funny if he manages to challenge.
>>96689574>Alpharius fighting Alpharius and bargaining with Alpharius while Alpharius wonders what the fuck is going on
do (you) find it thinkable that a given section of a legion or chapter-scale grouping or company would resort to harvesting gene-seed from fallen enemy astartes to then integrate into their own makeup of homunculi?are there any instances of this evident besides what might've been taking place on the eater muster world of Bodt?
>>96689785I think NL did it? And it probably became more prevalent with everyone as the heresy dragged on. There's a bunch of of "chimeric" chapters in 40k that aren't explained away by genetic tampering, like Carcharodons, Blood Ravens, I think Minotaurs too?The one thing I never understood is how geneseed would become chimeric in the first place. You will never have two different geneseeds in a marine, if a NL loots a BA progenoid nad puts in in a new recruit, that recruit is 100% BA, and his two gene-descendants will also be 100% BA, so on and so forth. How would it "mix"?
>>96689805they seem to be portrayed as monolithic masses but i don't think that would rule out the possibility of two (or more?) damaged or partial instances basically being forced into the same cavity and made to integrate and fuse with one another, as just one example of how it might take placeas best i grasp they're, at sum, teeming nodes of engineered viro-genetic upheaval and little about that suggests any exclusivity or a lack of capacity for said things to coalesce into something functional if clobbered together as such
>>96689858Or maybe apothecaries store every geneseed in the same jar and over time they start mixing
>>96689574Yes and that is by design
Maybe Alpharius was actually incredibly shit at coordinating his legion but too proud to admit it so he just claimed it was all a "special operation" whenever he accidentally made two parts of his legion kill each other
>>96689933lies AND slander!
Any predictions on when Myrmidon might get a plastic release?
>>96689099luv me some iron hands, uncommon to see in my experience
>>96690255I got like 5k points more to paint, pray to the omnissiah for me anon.
>>96689018>why should a psyker suffer penalties from making mental contact with daemons in the setting about evil dreams trying to destroy everything>>96689190>Blessing or Curse
>>96690255It's always weird to tab between /hhg/ and /40kg/ and seeing the stark difference in attitudes the posters express towards IH.
>>96689182It's just Kor Phaeron being a contrarian who refuses to wear Serrated Sun red.
>>96689805Ten thousand years of being passed around without having access to the primarchs to check for mutations and apothecaries fixing what they believe are mutations of their own geneseed but it's just non mutated geneseed from another origin.
>>96690421I haven't kept up with 40k for more than a decade at this point but I remember the 40k IH supplements being pretty shit.
>>96682303Easily...
>>96690421iron hands supplements in 40k have always been broken as fuck (gorgons chain smash captain in clab raukaan, character leviathan dreadnought multiple fnp bullshit in 8th)
>>96690459I need the full collection of the black books
>>96690489I want them to bring back Smashfucker for Horus Heresy.Just give the Iron Hands some really brutal upgrades at let them sink 300+ point on one Praetor.
>>96690506GW will upload them to the warhammer vault on warhammer+ soon right??!? oh wait they forgot that exists and it wouldnt have the rules anyway for ??? reasons
>>96690534It's weird how pretty much all the Imperial Armour books and pre-8th campaigns are in the WH+ vault, but not the HH black books.Until HH3 I though they wanted to re-release them with updated rules (like the Imperial Armour 2nd ed. books), but now with their new Isstvan V journals, it doesn't make sense either. So they're unwilling to touch them for some reason
>>96690489>>96690512>the legend of Smashfucker lives onNot so long ago, people still knew how to have fun on /tg/.
>>96686059as always, las
>>96690554Honestly I wonder if it's some copyright thing, like if bligh's estate owns the right to the books or something.
Besides the mkx heads, are these kosher
>>96690914impossible, by the time Alan even became an employee that was in the distant past of the 80s.He didn't even was part of FW when it was founded. He joined way later.>>96690946No, only the indomitus termie heads and a few of the naked ones could pass for 30k bits.The others have too many primaris design clues, like the ear "flaps"
>>96688061ADB has mommy issues
>>96690255Yes that anon is ahead of most IH in this thread
>>96691032Forget iron hands, he's ahead of most HH players, I don't see you owning a mastodon
>>96690946
>>96691170
>>96689805BA have this thing where they drink some genetic shit at the start of their process right? Maybe if they do that to another legion's geneseed you get a chimera.
3 of these would be a good start for a militia force
>>96691242Krieg are too identifiable as 40k minis. It's better to use nuCadians painted grey (for loyalists) with the imperialis replaced by SA decals
>>96691266Who cares?
>>96691305people who want to play HH games and not just 40k with a different ruleset
>>96691266Why? What's in there that's 40k killed and not available in 30k, it's not like the cawl pattern sentinel
>>96691318It's just guard anon. Guys with gas masks and lasguns exist in 30k. He's not talking about using primaris marines.
>>96691318You're mentally ill. 30k is a historical setting, the miniatures line is just corpo nonsense.
so i understand that Kayfabe is an unironic part of Leman Russ and the Space Wolves, and i appreciate the artistic motif that went into designing them.however, i, personally, do not care for wolves or animal totems in general. because of this, i will not be putting wolf pelts and wolf helmets in my army.i know this is a silly question, but do you have any advice on still keeping a savage aspect to the army aesthetic without their signature details? right now i have>scribing runes on armor>gemstones>trophy skulls on rope/chain
>>96691242It's certainly not a bad start. Pretty much everything there is useful if I'm remembering the contents right. Krieg are distinctive but it doesn't take much work to modify them to be less overt - even just head swaps (of which there are quite a lot available) go a long way. Assuming you want to go that far in the first place.
>>96691322>>96691365Krieg are a strongly coded 40k faction, period. Looking at these minis, the HH will never be the first thing to come to mind, ever. And that's why they don't belong. They cannot be used without serious customization (heads, imperialis...)>>96691435fuck off lazy nigger, go play 40k
>>96691468NTA, but how? Aren't their heads connected to the torso by the hose thing?
>>96691464you can copy the more plain aesthetics of the Burning of Prospero box official minis, or the old RT-era beakies before they became viking furries.But it's going to look a bit off after decades of awooo marines, IMO
>>96691541>>96691242>>96691318I-IS THAT A MORTAL IN A GASMASK AND TRENCHCOAT?!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SAVE ME DEAD-FAT-MAN I'M GOING INSANE
>>96691585Nta, I get that you are baiting but those look nothing like krieg.
>>96691585>irrelevant low res Visions slop>don't look at all like Krieg
>>96691464Reminder that RT SW were codex adherent and used as an example of a typical chapter in the rulebook. Nobody's forcing you to do anything other than paint them (and even that's optional).
>>96691585Are you paid by some shadowy organization whose purpose is making forums and stuff outside of reddit, instagram, facebook and twitter completely unsufferable to use? Just thought I'd ask.
>>96691541The artillery guns are excellent, those are absolutely what you want for militia. Might want to swap the crew heads out though.
>>96691591>>96691595Concessions accepted.>>96691610>unsufferableThe word is "insufferable," ESLhylic.
>>96691577I did head swaps for a Krieg kill team a while ago. The hoses are part of the head, but the join to the gas mask box on the chest is just a flat surface. If you drill out the neck you can fit Cadian and Navy Breacher heads for certain, and I reckon most Anvil heads work too by virtue of the same dimensions.(I did these models several years ago when I was less skilled at cleanup than I am now, so forgive the slightly messy work.)
>>96691623>The word is "insufferable," ESLhylic.>shifts the conversation towards a typo instead of answeringI'll take that as a yes.
>>96691266If all the regiments to draw a line on while this art exists.
>>96691579>But it's going to look a bit off after decades of awooo marines, IMOthat's what i was worried about. if i think i nailed a model, i might share it, but don't expect anything.>>96691606well i want to paint them, and i want my army on the table top to look cool. and part of that is being able to recognizing what legions are fighting each other.
>>96691630Huh, TIL.
>>96691618>>96691630yes, Krieg can be a good base for conversions, but they can't be used as they come out of the box like the blind retard above says>>96691633Cadians were designed as the generic regiment for a reason, and they're easy to get."Vostroyans" are an obsolete dead end for HH armies. Originally an illustration of an imperial army trooper in winter gear, not even a normal trooper, then it was briefly used in a couple more HH pieces before being reused as 40k imperial russians by GW (hence their backstory).Meanwhile Cadian-like troopers appear again and again, specially during the Siege for the loyalists.
>>96691678>Meanwhile Cadian-like troopers appear again and againEven in 30k you cannot escape cadians being everywhere.
>>96691688Yes, but they still need to be painted differently for a proper HH look. Even better if the imperialis is removed from their helmets and that ring/edge in HH art is added
>>96691678UPLAND TERCIO HOOOOOO
>>96691678They replaced them with cadians because cadians were all GW sold you retard. Give it a few years and they'll be sticking guard with great coats and gas masks in the scouring books
>>96691678>they can't be used out of the boxHappy to let you set the rules for your own events, but they absolutely can be used in the vast majority of 30k communities. "Everything must be perfectly compliant with the art" is a vocal and small minority. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you - I take the art as descriptive rather than prescriptive, so I try and stick fairly close, but I don't generally mind when other people diverge as long as there's a justification. Don't bring in Primaris, because it's very specifically excluded, but there's a million worlds with a million different local armies; the odds that at least one world out there shares the same pattern of gas mask and helmet as Krieg ends up with, in the Imperium that LOVES recycling every design they can get their hands on for the next 10k years, is not exactly far fetched to me.But in general I subscribe to "the person who can tell you what to do with your models is the one paying for them and putting in the time to paint them". Not exactly the /hhg/ standard but I find it makes for much more pleasant communities.
>>96691719wrong, retard. Once "Vostroyans" became a 40k army, there was zero change of them appearing again in the HH.>great coats and gas masksthat's not the issue, double retard. It's the signature Krieg heads that do not belong in 30k. >>96691738Using Kriegs in 30k is just as anachronic. Like a Mars pattern Razorback.The discussion is about the aesthetic correctness of Krieg minis as they come out of the box in 30k. Saying that there's plenty of lazy/ignorant people out there that doesn't care about it adds nothing new.
>>96691802How many games have you played? Post models.
>>96691711>>96691678>there are a thousand thousand worlds in the Imperium>none of them can have militia with un-rimmed helmets and the imperialis>all of them MUST conform to BL cover art (which gave Ferrus a fucking power wrench)You poindexters are getting tiresome.
>>96691802>aesthetic correctnessBro if you care about this then you better smash any Aux models you see with a hammer, because nothing supported their existence.
>/hhg/ - Taking The Bait General
>>96691857
>>96691832>muh many worlds>mih many designsyou're using the exact same logic of those wanting to use primaris marines in the HHJust a cop out because you don't want to do the extra work of making minis that don't look as 40k minis at a first glance.The BL art is just a reference, btw.
>>96691961Post models
>>96681508What the fuck am I supposed to do with Terror Squads? Their price & the fact that they die when sneezed on makes me feel like I need to kit them out with volkite/flamers/rotors and try to murder infantry from mid range, but then not utilizing the 2 attacks + Hatred (Infantry) just makes that seem like a waste...
>>96691988>tokyodrift rhino to enemy line>jump out>status them with assault weapons>charge into melee>don't fuck up as NL inevitably do (very hard!)>your opponent cannot score if you kill all his scoring units
ngl I always forget night lords exist
Bros which sponsons are the least dogshit? I've got two Achilles to build. They'll be driving up to midfield and hanging out there for at least 2 turns of (Heavy)
>>96692170infantry, cavalry volkitevehicles, walkers melta you can use the twin multimeltas to try and snipe heavy infantry if you want, it's about a 1/4 chance of just murdering a TEQ and it doesn't matter if you movedvolkites are 1/11 vs TEQ but you get 3 or 4 shots and each unsaved W is 1/7 to inflict another through Deflagrate remember you can only get frag and shatter on the QL so you're better off as an artillery piece anywaygrav cannon Achilles when
>>96692170I'd go with twin meltas even tho they suck balls. The twin volkites are more likely to kill 1 marine or something but with the meltas you'll probably kill more points
New HH3 battle report from WH+> https://gofile.io/d/yq4MSS
I return after a couple months away. How has 3.0 shaped up? Going to start churning out Iron Warriors regardless.
>>96692779People who don't play it hate it, people who play it think it's decent enough
Let's check in on the LVO crowd>Played aux the biggest event in vegas this weekend >Went 0/4>Two games margins of victory were ~50 points against me>Both had multiple jetbike death stars and 5 or more Line 2 unitsWow I can't wait for 4th edition!!
>>96692861That's pretty embarrassing anon
>>96683209They are Malific. They have Neverborn in them not just warp infused (That would be TS thing).Having some demon corruption jutting through seems appropriate to me.
>>96692855Nice, thanks anon. Got a couple support squads to build before painting my infantry, then it’s on to tanks.
>>96692861Didn't we just have a white scars player bitching and moaning the last thread about jet bikes being unplayable
>>96692932I still think it would lose to line spam, but idk my brain is too simple for 3.0
>>96692932You can give them vanguard with a MoS, but generally you still need dedicated scoring units just like everyone else as White Scars.Which isn't even that bad because having +2" movement tacticals/despoilers is awesome and you can make your 20 man blob Expendable (2) for 0 points
>>96692779Legacies salvaged a lot (but not all)Inductii dropped recently, IW versions are a sidegrade (Line 1, Implacable Advance, Expendable 1)Daemons are like 3-5 good non-WL unitsNew WB Saturnines rape, Sat retinue and centurion just grope a littleMilitia are kino
>>96693014I was actually browsing the Militia pdf, they seem neat. A shrieking horde of druggies with chainaxes to catch bullets for the IW seems fun.
>>96693014Is there a scan of Forges of Saturn yet?
>>96691711The Imperialis came about during the Heresy and was worn by loyalists to show their loyalty and for identification.It's kosher for mid-late Heresy.The "ring" on those helmets is just a goggle strap, look at the guy on the right.It does look good though.
>>96693065We have LQ snaps of the 3 new units + arcana, there's a Phratus pic upthread, and someone transcribed some of the lore into a pastebinPhraetus rules are >>96681809
>>96693180
>>96693112Imperialis was used before the Heresy, but during the Heresy it became to signify allegiance to the Emperor.
stealth ruinstorm starter box release
>>96693183
>>96693219I think this is really all saturnine needed to be a semi-viable choiceWS5, 3A each with particle shredders and a legion standard make them pretty scary in close range shooting/volley fire (since shredders are assault) and still capable in melee*Not* having vanguard is almost a plus for infantry, since even if their opponents react run away they can claim the objective themselves just fine
Is there any scans of Saturnine Disruption fists? Found weapons but the stls of fists got pulled
>>96693207Nobody playing ruinstorm you silly billy.
>>96688061Are you the same retard that posted the fucking primaris captain "Argel Tal"?
Is there any reason to get the HH2.0 libers before they become unobtainium?Or are they completely superfluous?
>>96693207Is that a Slaan ruin on his back?
>>96692779There's a few pain points that could use addressing by GW/playgroups but 90% of the game is solid, overall its a decent edition (that didnt need to happen)
>>96692861Going 0/4 as aux, especially against jetbike spam is frankly hilarious
>>96692861>5+ line units when with current missions realistically means controlling more than 2 means you've already decimated the enemy >complaining about scoring when playing the army with pinning 3 artillery for less than 100 points >not simply slamming the enemy 20-25 feral ogryn Sounds like a skill issue to me dog
>>96693407yeah i didn't even notice it at the time but now you can look at him again too
I do not care for the Serrated Sun. It insists upon itself.
>>966935775+ Line units because the two you have on objectives are going to die every turn so you need the redundancy
>>96693662Wonder if Serrated Suns ever got confused with Thousand Sons seeing how their emblems are so close to one another.
>>96692861Bet you conceded before turn 4 every time and never made use of this missions special rule.
>>96693413you snooze you loseAOD 2.0 is by many miles the best game GW has ever made.
>>96693577>misusing the word decimate >on the thread filled with iron warriors autistsYou know not what you have wrought
>>96693413Well, the games ain't gonna become any better. I splurged a little and got a bunch of 1.0 and 2.0 books. Would love to get more 1.0 books, but beyond the legion army list and legion list, their prices tend to be pretty steep for my wallet.
>>96693761imagine a game so well designed it includes a built in runaway game mechanic
>>96693761In one game so far that rule has come up but it resulted in a 30 point swing, which is absolute insanity
>>96693800The 1.0 black books are worth it for the fluff and art alone. Expensive definitely but getting the one(s) that has /yourlegion/ in it is a rite of passage
>>96693761Oh wow. Is this a joke? They playtested it, understood that is shit and that lots of games finish with a major win so they added this cataclismic diarrhea rule in a desperate attempt to save the unsaveable. This must be a joke.
>>96693965>nooooooo the game should be over by turn 2 you can't make the last 3 units on the table matter in turn 4!!!!
>>96693854The majority of games need some sort of catch-up mechanic, to avoid early advantages always snowballing into guaranteed victory. First turn advantage has been a huge problem in warhammer for a reason.
>>96693988>First turn advantage has been a huge problem in warhammer for a reason.People make fun of the L shaped ruins everywhere but they exist solely so shooting armies can't just leafblower the other army off the table at the top of turn 1Fantasy games can get around that by limiting the impact and range of shooting, but scifi games have some real issues there. Infinity addressed it with opposed rolls and AROs, Epic/BFG got around it by making individual units tougher than what a normal unit tends to be in 40k, and 30k seems to be trying to address it by making scoring so important + making everything in game move a fair bit faster than it used to
>>96694069In 3.0 terrain and vehicles block line of sight more often than the terrain rules in 40k do currently. And the amount of terrain that the rulebook tells you to use is also quite substantial, at least 6 pieces of area terrain and 6 regular terrain pieces (which block LOS too)Honestly the terrain is also needed to at least somewhat block melee units and transports, because the threat range of even something charging from a Rhino is nuts. Terrain means there isn't a straight line to rush down towards every objective.
>got my assault squads, Forges of Saturn, ashen circle conversion bits, and the last conversion bits needed for my phraetus waiting for me at home today Hell yeab
wut da eaters doin' in the favelas?
>>96694137Lucky you. My order hasn't even been send yet, because saturnine terminators are still out of stock on the local webstore I ordered it from. Least played edition by the way
>>96694196Looking for new recruitment spots after Bodt
>>96693965its not a joke, just an admission they shipped a game with bad balance
>>96694137It's funny that WB get 1 (one) good unit in this whole fucking edition but it's also one of the best units and puts them from Tier F to Tier BI really want to make WB Inductii work
>>96694196This simple symbol on the area with the smaller, most cluttered houses on the Istrvaan III map is one of the more violent and brutal images in the whole heresy to me.Just imagining what must have resulted from dropping the Maximum Murder lads in the middle of the hab areas.
>>96693772>>96693800I meant more like is there any reason to get them other than the army lists in them?If I can look up all that stuff on WaHapedia is there anything else in the liber books that make up for that?
>>96694419>If I can look up all that stuff on WaHapediaWon't last forever and most people won't back up everything. Print copies are less likely to degrade and don't require someone else to keep paying hosting fees.Whether that justifies the outlay for the 2e rules, up to you. The appeal of the 1e Black Books is mostly in the lore, not the army lists, so you'd be missing out relying on Waha for everything.
>>96694419>any reason to get them other than the army lists in them?No. The 1.0 black books are vastly superior for lore and artwork. Otherwise just look it up on lexicanum.
BETRAYALhttps://files.catbox.moe/ndkvi4.pdfMASSACREhttps://files.catbox.moe/dq2y60.pdfEXTERMINATIONhttps://files.catbox.moe/7vrcpv.pdfCONQUESThttps://files.catbox.moe/e6594d.pdfTEMPESThttps://files.catbox.moe/13sy18.pdfRETRIBUTIONhttps://files.catbox.moe/xvu3lp.pdfINFERNOhttps://files.catbox.moe/a4oz26.pdfMALEVOLENCEhttps://files.catbox.moe/p07rj7.pdfCRUSADEhttps://files.catbox.moe/0jjys1.pdf
The Siege of Cthoniahttps://files.catbox.moe/oy47n5.pdfThe Battle for Beta Garmonhttps://files.catbox.moe/gxbtoh.pdfThe Martian Civil Warhttps://files.catbox.moe/g24nbs.pdf
>want to give my phraestus sergeant a saturnine war axe>make a cool pose for it, model him with the plasma bombard for the time being, its not glued on>want to put the axe in his right hand>the war axe piece only comes in the left hand>the hammer comes in the right hand>would need to get both just so i can swap the fingers around and even then thats risky with converting and messing it up>cant 3d print either as nobody I know has a good printer avaliable on demand>decide I dont like the axe anyway unless hes holding it two handed which requires redling the pose and taking the arms off which are glued onfuck my life, guess i'm building that extra spare model i have ready for a pose like that
>>96694743>>96694788uh based?
>>96694743based
Which black books have stuff on Iron Hands post dropsite massacre?
>>96695118Massacre includes Autek Mor blowing up Bodt, and Retribution has Shadrak Meduson and his shattered legion buddies.
>>96692855>People who don't play it hate it, people who play it think it's decent enoughMost people who played it stopped playing it because it's shit, 40Kids and Muh Officialfags keep gulping down the turds because they cannot conceive of any other option.>>96692779I can only speak for my experience. The self-described "official" HH discord has dropped off a bit because the admin & mods chucked a huge hissy and banned loads of people who weren't happy with 3.0 - I'd already stopped actively posting after a previous runin with their vibes-based rules enforcement and it was quite something to watch from the sidelines. Of the three clubs local to me one only had a couple of 30K players and they have now taken a break because 3.0 at launch is such a mess, one had a dozen players and has collectively agreed to stick with 2.0, and the last had a regular group of five guys who all agreed to move on to 3.0 which after playing 3.0 for a while is now a group of two guys because of how shit it is. Both games I've observed IRL and loads of reports online suggest problems with many core aspects of the rules and especially the scoring system resulting in very short games because it's very easy to hit a point of no return by the end of turn 2.By all means try it for yourself, but don't buy the slop the shillfags are selling, the consensus forming is that at best it's exchanging one set of issues for another(IMO worse) set.
>>96695118Retribution and a little bit in Conquest>>96695299bodt is in book 6 retard
>>96693914I can *just* about justify spending 100 quid for a mint condition collectible hardback. That's not 99% of black book sales on ebay, those are "acceptable" to "chewed by a dog" tier quality and cost 300+ quid for anything past the first three black books.Unless you luck out and have a kindly old wargamer local to you who're retiring/pops their clogs and you can buy their whole set at a reasonable price, trying to collect the black books now is a fast road to an empty wallet.>>96694419As an incorrigible Old Good New Bad sort of person I can tell you that while having digital versions of stuff is great and often more convenient, you will find it much easier to get people engaged with "unsupported" systems if you have a set of the physical books to let people examine. One place I lived I struggled for a year to get a Mordheim group going - a game with every single aspect of the rules catalogued online in print-quality on a single convenient website - and got nowhere until I got hold of a mint condition copy of the rulebook and let a few people at the local club browse through it - that tactile experience is important for a lot of people.
>>96695325I like how the discord troons actively brag about being discord troons now with blog posts about their discord troon activities
>>96695394You should get into creative writing, being able to spin such fictions out of nothing whatsoever is a talent that deserves to be nurtured.
>>96695394chronicaly online retards act like retards, who would have thunk it huh?2.0 grogs begone.
>>96695565I think it is absolutely hilarious how there was nothing but shitting on 2.0 during it, yet now that the vast majority of people have moved on to 3.0 IRL experience here, not internet hyperbole there suddenly are posters claiming that 2.0 was the best game GW ever made.
>>96695591What is hilarious is that the majority of shit people were constantly bitching about like brutal and dreadnoughts and how unplayable useless most vehicles were have been solved but none of that matters because people apparently can't stand the general killiness getting nerfed a bitTerrain and wound allocation rules do suck tho
>>96689038Is there more detailed lore on the WB saturnine?I don't really get if these guys are supposed to end up like gal vorbak and the marah gal and they are just normal saturnine painted grey cuz the studio was lazy and didn't bother with a conversion or if red glowing saturnine is all they are supposed to be
>>96695789from what the lore tells us, the guys inside are just normal, but the armour has its thermal diffraction field and other systems ripped out to put a daemon in its placeso the armour is kinda like a daemon engine when you think about it
>>96695746Terrain rules are fine in my experience, they're modular enough that you can basically create terrain rules exactly to your liking by being creative with to which terrain pieces you apply things. Wound allocation is too abstract, but I can understand why it is the way it is. When you play with the recommended amount of terrain (at least 12 terrain pieces) the old wound allocation rule of >can't kill what you can't seewould just lead to nothing dying at all during a game. Heck, I started taking barrage weapons just because of how hard it is to get LOS to squads hiding behind or in terrain.
>>96695819Yes, that's the point. you shouldn't die if the opponent can't see youThey have to come out if they want to shoot you as well
>>96691802>wrong, retard. Once "Vostroyans" became a 40k army, there was zero change of them appearing again in the HH.>Vostroyan infantry and command squads released May 2006>Legion by Dan Abnett published March 2008try again
>>96695591>>96695746100% on the money, all the worst 2.0 players and rules abusers are the ones in my local scene that are chucking a fit IRL and online. They are literally a bunch of sad non achieving middle aged men. Lots of heresy players have been dad gamers but this cohort seems to be the single or divorced self haters that can't get their lives right and just sit online being toxic. Good times!
I think they could rebuild 40k using the HH3 system and make a good game out of it
>>96695874I hope they don't, 40kfags don't deserve a good game.
>>96695874I was kinda hoping they would but rumors say 11th is just going to be 10.5 even with the same codexes so 3 more years of every unit being affected by 5 special, stacking rules at a time and half the army being shot off the table on turn 1 by whoever goes first
>>96695883I know that 40kfags are the textbook example of "I am a pig and I eat slop", but quite frankly i'd like to have fun with 40k again, and because the 40k players where I live are a slave caste to the latest rules, a new edition is the only way to make them play an edition that feels more like the classics
>>96695819>would just lead to nothing dying at all during a gameMiles better than the current system of >I see your foot, your whole unit can dieBut also>I shoot back but since I can only draw LoS from 1 guy's foot, only he gets to shoot
>>96695852Yeah it's funny how each time anons proclaiming how 2.0 was the best admit to playing Fury of the Ancients lol
>>96695971Fury of the ancients in HH is so fucking funny because it's more like "fury of the guy who got shot yesterday"Someone was talking about castra ferrums giving an aura like in 40k, castra ferrums in 40k have had an occupant for 500-1000 years if not longer, when the great crusade lasted like 200 and your average dreadnought has had a guy in it for a decade or two at best
>>966955912.0 is a 3.0 WIP. Most of the choices that the rules design team, or whatever the fuck they call themself now, took between 1.0 to 2.0 got magnified when going from 2.0 to 3.0. 2.0 also is very unfinished in general and all non-marines got to play at most 2 years in a 3 years game cycle or in the case of militia about a year. I could go on and on but there is no fucking point in wasting my time writing this shit other than to vent.>2.0 doesn't get shat on now that it's not the edition that's getting updatedNo shit, what would be the point? People are getting more fucking retarded each year it seems. Why would I waste my time here posting unprompted about an edition that I hate when it's not even the current edition so not a single soul can force me to play it. Not that I could be forced to play 3.0 or 3 years from now 4.0 and so on. I'd much rather prefer to post about things I like than waste what little fucking time we have on the mortal plane of existence by getting angry about some suits wearing the face of an old game I like and making the closest thing to games as a service in tabletop with their 3 year lif span before everything that comes out becomes incompatible. People like you deserve 3.0, it was made for you just like 4.0 will be.
>>96695971or stone gauntlet, IW lascannon spam, DA cheese and everyones favorite just abusing reactions till your eyes bled.
>>96696046>when the great crusade lasted like 200 and your average dreadnought has had a guy in it for a decade or two at bestThere were Space Marines in the closing years of the Terran Unification Wars and who participated in the purging of the Thunder Warriors.And even the HH books would refer to marines in the Dreads and "ancients" and "venerable."Meanwhile, Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus had a living marine who had been through the Great Crusade and they just treat him like a doddering old man.
>>96696092>hh books>being a source of lorecome on anon, bait used to be believable
>>96696092Wasn't the unification wars like 12 years
>>96696092Yeah, so 200 years. The great crusade pretty much started the moment terra was unified.The oldest space marine at the start of the horus heresy is going to be like 250 years tops. A 200 year old dreadnought in 40k would be practically a rookie. "Ancient" and "Venerable" means something completely different when you've got dreads kicking that are a thousand+ years old, not even mentioning Bjorn. A venerable dread in 40k is an order of magnitude older than the oldest marines in 30k.
>>96696117It's never clear. But the Unification Wars were circa 700 M31, while the Crusade kicked off just before 800 M31. So a marine alive in the Unification wars would be around 300 by the time of the Heresy.Not that old by 40k standards (fuggin 1500 year old Dante) but then, 40k Lieutenants used to have a reroll aura and they weren't particularly ancient, either. Just someone who could be a leader for other marines.
>>96696046Dude, even for marines over 100 years is old.
>>96696140In the heresy, most dreadnoughts are not going to be some veteran of the unification wars, they're going to be some inductii who got shot last month and put into a sarcophagus. 30k dreadnoughts just do not deserve to be called "ancients" the way the average 40k one is.
>>96696162Anon if you're going to go on this crusade I feel like you're better of pointing out the fact that the most commonly use dreadnought in the heresy have a thermonuclear detonation when they go down.
>>96696162sincerely hope you don't genuinely think they but unproven, unstable incuctii into dreadnoughts
>>96696174Of the early heresy at least, once the supply disruptions start happening doesn't the castra ferrum become the ones pumped out on the cheap? Making them even more likely to have inductii inside.
>>96696186Well, by the end of the heresy most marines are inductii, and castra ferrums weren't even being made during the crusade afaik they were something made when stuff like contemptors were too hard to build. So either veterans are being taken out of contemptors and put into castra ferrums for some reason (sure as shit not because of their original ride being wrecked because then they would be a smoking nuclear crater) or they're shoving inductii in them.
>>96696188The castaferrum dreadnought pre-dates the Imperium, so most likely they also dug a lot out of the moth balls to press into service. Like how the Kratos and Malcador, which were basically phased out in favor of newer better tanks, got put back on the front lines.
>>96696140In the old lore, marines had to spend 100 years as a Scout before getting promoted to proper Battle Brother.
>>96696162You don't get to drive the forever box unless you are at least a veteran sergeantWhy the fuck would you put an inductii in there when all your veterans are constantly dying?Contrary to what Fury of the Ancients might make you believe, dreadnoughts are still pretty rare
lmao dreadnought affordance gapimagine not salvaging perfectly salvageable line marinesdon't your dudes have cool mechanicum buddies?we don't do the emperor's peace around here ;3
Is there any lore about traitor Space Wolves? I always thought they were perfect for a khornate warband that wasn't just skulls retards, but I don't know if it's ever brought up in the lore. 40k even teases it with their chapter master having a Khornate axe
>>96696331congrats, you made marines into egg bois
>>96696336those are to be the only three examples as most so blessed are hocked off to companies besides my echelon's first as they're damaged goodsone's tolerated for his acumen and the other, his ferocitymissile mang is a battalion-level appended fellow for ad-hoc veteran groupsfucking love 'em to bits
>>96696379are you just playing them as regular marines? maybe vets for 2w?
>>96696334There was a successor chapter made but they kept mutating out of control and when they were ordered purged, they ran off and joined Khorne.There have been numerous entire Great Companies that defected and joined chaos, usually Khorne, also over the years.And Logan having a Khorne axe was a major plot point in Magnus' latest invasion of Fenris. He warded himself to be protected from all weapons forged by the Imperium, so he was wading through all the fire and ash, completely untouchable by any weapon the defenders had.Until Logan yeeted his axe at him, which, because it was originally forged by Khorne, shattered Magnus' wards and let the combined Space Wolves and Grey Knights spank his red ass back to the Warp.It's unconfirmed but rumored that there was great deep laughter from the Immaterium when Magnus' shield fell.But even that pales to Lukas the Trickster getting one over on Magnus with a random piece of parchment.
>>96696331They kinda look like they have a toilet cover for a helmet ngl
>>96696391Finally, Ma.K in 40k
>>96696385either-or at least potentially, the missile guy is outright a strict veteran by virtue of loadout though>>96696391they -are- shitheads
>>96696334SW arguably had the first traitor marine ever. One of Russ' raider buddies on Fenris secretly harboured resentment against him, and was planning to kill Russ after being turned into a marine. Wulfen curse took him instantly, and he immediately threw himself at Russ but got killed.
>>96696334yes there was skyrar's dark wolves which iirc was referenced in the siege of cthonia book as well as imperial armor
>>96696334Black Books mention Space Wolves with hybrid SoH heraldrySkyrar's Dark Wolves are a SW/SoH warband in 40kBut it's really easy to turn them into The Rout
>>96696510fresh bread>>96696510
>>96695531what's your discord troon account? we can take it to DMs
>>96693605Wait a minute that's Galadriel
>>96695591Nice revisionism chum, but literally the only bigger argumentative shitstorm than the constant back & forth between 2.0 haters and defenders was the nigh-universal liquid projectile shitting on 3.0 when it released. You can't just pretend those things didn't happen. Plenty of people defended 2.0 because it was a perfectly fine edition. Most people shit on 3.0 because it's bloody awful.>>96695746This one is particularly funny, because the people bitching about brutal and dreads were among the most dunked on since nobody outside of rancid tournament sweaties had any issues with those. And vehicles have been resolved? Lol. LMAO. Sure, having all your stuff stunlocked by glanced status effects is *much* better than some vehicles being slightly mediocre.Also you forgot a few things; terrain, los, wound allocation, missions and scoring, the general blandification of every faction(they fixed saux and militia being dull...by making everyone else just as dull, huzzah), the dumb challenge gambit system that people figured out before the game even released. You'd be quicker listing what does work.
