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For those of you who have read Umineko, would you say that Erika has high social attributes/skills or low? Need to know for a character I'm making.

>>96781011
Low. Mental is primary for her, then physical (stamina and dex for the horseshit with the guesthouse), then social.
She unironically argued with an autistic child about whether magic is real. Nobody with social tact would do that.
cha 1, mani 3, app 2, cause I do recall her tricking people sometimes. Maybe mani 2 app 3, though.

>>96781061
>She unironically argued with an autistic child about whether magic is real. Nobody with social tact would do that.
Aren't social skills in this game more about winning the argument rather than having the social decorum not to start one?

How would you write the following?

Say VTMB opening contrivance with similar player character outcomes, minus the large moves by the power structures.
You end up with a Tremere whose sire was executed within hours of their embrace, they are used as a disposable resource and years pass and they make of themselves an individual of significance, potent, capable and decently connected. Their city of residence remains Cammy business as usual. The Pyramid is alive and well.

My query is, how does the Pyramid act towards this rising star?
Do they tempt them with a position of prominence within the pyramid? Do they simply kidnap and force them into the Pyramid? Would they act overtly, suggesting that it was an inevitability of clan business and suggesting they were righting a political wrong the prince had perpetrated against the clan by allowing the fledgling their own destiny? Or would they act in secret and maintain their newly converted asset's facade of independence from the pyramid for such a facade's obvious benefits?


Been thinking about the Pyramid a lot. I think I mostly didn't like it, but I also didn't like just nuking it out of existence either, feels too cheap. So I'm forcing myself to write a bit about it to feel out the concept more. Just not sure where I should strike the balance between creepy consent-disrespecting cult brainwashing behind closed doors and mechanical bureaucracy lobbying the government and advertising employee benefits.
I usually associate the Pyramid a lot more with the latter due to the scale of the thing, while the former is what I generally associate with most writing of newly establishing blood bonds.
Thought the example of the bloodlines player character were they Tremere is sorta a cultural problem for the Pyramid to solve and I'm not sure how they'd go about it.

>>96781074
It's more about looking good socially, whether you win or not.
Make a bad argument with the right charisma and you might still convince people you're right.
Might just be me misinterpreting, though.
Even still, basically everybody in the episodes she's in not so subtly finds her incredibly annoying, even if they can't refute her bullshit, so I maintain she has Cha 1.

>>96781087
>My query is, how does the Pyramid act towards this rising star?
In most cases it would end up as a incorporate or kill scenario.

>>96781087
probably like how strauss does in vtmb if you do jobs for him you get to join so if that tremere is competent and well liked he get's a job in the house

ingame this is probably a camarilla tremere with the "embrace without the cup" merit

I just noticed Smiling Jack's VA in VtM:B is the same as Joker in Under the Red Hood

>>96781316
That's crazy, I would never have guessed he voiced anything else.

>>96781087
I'm not going to train your AI model for you.

>>96781090
Social skills don't do anything to make you likeable. That's the purview of roleplaying.

>>96781583
The purview of roleplaying is to properly portray how likeable your character is based on their social skills.
Portraying a character with charisma 1 and no expression like they're suave and never put their foot in their mouth during conversation would be bad roleplay.

>>96781621
Social skills only do what they say they do and nothing else.

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>>96781316
>>96781357
How did you guys not recognize John DiMaggio?

Also you get attacked by a werecar

How could you do a Bloodlines style game for WtA? It's kind of hard to get around the pack dynamic and it wouldn't really feel like Werewolf if you were just a ronin.
Actually, how do you envision a Bloodlines-like for any of the game lines?

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I think that we should split this into two generals: /VTM/ and /MTA/, since those are the two largest fandoms and they hate each other.

>>96781813
>put all the vampfags in /vtmg/
>put all the magefags in /mtag/
>wraithchads, woofchuds, and changetwinks left in /wodg/
Sounds acceptable.

>>96781805
>Actually, how do you envision a Bloodlines-like for any of the game lines?
Given all the previous attempts, I'd rather that they didn't.

>>96781813
Werewolfbros... what happened? It was supposed to be the big three...

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>>96781845
Don't forget the mummincels and the other forgotten losers.

>>96781871
Furries don't cry whenever people talk about other games, vampfags and magenerds are just crybabies.

>>96781845
>>wraithchads, woofchuds, and changetwinks left in /wodg/
And it becomes furry central overnight.

>>96781871
Perhaps the woof's absolute refusal and lack of growth. Not just in-universe but outside of it too. As a whole they really like to exemplify the weaver sucking itself off for all time.

>>96781805
>Werewolf: You appear as a cub of one of the tribes. When the sept gets assaulted, some important Elders die, and you vow revenge. You'll have to deal with fellow retarded cubs and try to win in the absence of a leading force.
>Mage: You awaken as a result of a major clash between Traditions and Technocracy, and you get to choose which side you'll follow from that point on. The area you're in is a mess, and Consensus is actively falling apart, so your job is to tardwrangle everyone and help win the war.
>Wraith: You're fucking dead. The circumstances behind that are vague, and you figure it out as you play the game. You spend most of your time figuring out Wraith politics and why Charon is so retarded.
>Changeling: No idea for this one.
>Hunter: You see big bad supernatural, you get powers from an angel. Kill them all and navigate through their lore.
>Demon: Bloodlines 2's premise of waking up as a powerful, quasi-amnesiac being, but it is actually well done. Build your cult and become the most epic demon, or find redemption.
>KoTE: Like the original Bloodlines, but set in Japan.
>Mummy: You're just some guy with unsatisfying life that dies and gets recruited by Osiris to fight a bunch of faggy vampire cultists and evil mummies.

>>96781805
DtD would make an excellent video game, it's probably the best fit for a CRPG but it will never get one

>>96781805
>How could you do a Bloodlines style game for WtA?
I wouldn't. Amusingly, Werewolf is perfect candidate for party-based CRPG because your Pack is such an integral aspect of the game.

>>96781316
I realized who he was after hearing him as the construction foreman in BCS

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In Demon: the Descent, they call stealing an angel's identity "angel-jacking".

>>96780894
>Garou
Humanoid or knots?

>>96782017
Bloodlines-style W:tA would require playing a cat or a spider instead. If you want it to be as much like Bloodlines as possible, that would pretty much require being Ananasi.

(Gurahl would be a nega-Bloodlines experience.)

VTMB2's plot leaked recently. It's a bunch of schizophrenic nonsense that honestly reminds me of my own early chronicles.

>>96782576
>It's a bunch of schizophrenic nonsense that honestly reminds me of my own early chronicles.

And not in a good way, I presume?

>>96782595
Really not in a good way. The plot starts off with a chick trying to resurrect her lover, an evil big bad, and then pivots off to a secret, massive Sabbat cell hidden within the city that nobody noticed. The game's final stretch is literally the same combat gauntlet shit as the first game, but with way worse animations and the main antag trying to do a mystery ritual with a big pool of blood. There's also:
>Second Inquisition leader that you run into, you get an option to kill them or embrace them. If you kill them, the game forces you into a fail state and your ending epilogue will flip to "SI kills everyone" no matter what
>Fabien is a completely irrelevant character that dies in your head while shielding you from the sun somehow
>The big bad guy apparently has been spamming Dementation on Lou all these years but it barely reflects onto the story or dialogue
>The writing in general is pretty shit

>>96782626
Sounds like a speed runner and reader doing their best on both sides.

>>96782626
>If you kill them, the game forces you into a fail state and your ending epilogue will flip to "SI kills everyone" no matter what

... well it is a V5 game and it feels on-brand that killing their leader instead of turning them (turning hunters is an awful idea) leads to an artificial and forced bad end.

>>96782626
>Embracing the head of the SI to not lose
And nobody noticed that the spook in charge of hunting vampires suddenly never shows up during the day or any other suspicious shit vampires have to do?

>>96781805
>>96781935
>>96782457
You could do bloodlines styled W:tA if you solve the rage aspect making you retarded every now and then, I think the actual roleplaying components can be handled perfectly fine with W:tA outside of that. As for being basically bottom of the barrel wooftard Book of Hungry names kind of has an interesting premise like that where your main pack is basically incompetent geriatrics. Though I think for most of the game lines CRPG would be idea as the magic abilities that replace disciplines get rather abstract

>>96781935
I think Wraith might be best handled as an after-party of essentially a very interconnected web of Final Destination like circumstances so that you can get a relatable party of wraiths together that might hate or like you to explore the spooky sadboy aspect of Wraith, while also dealing with all the ghost politics and slavery.
I think Changeling might work as a traditional fae-focused DnD party with all the dickery that it comes with, like PF Kingmaker but ideally with less jank

>>96782626
>big bad guy has been spamming dementation on Lou without frying her brain into a schizophrenic puddle
Average V5 writer understanding

>>96782664
Ironic that the org of spooks doesn't notice the head spook suddenly going nocturnal only

>>96782665
VtmB had frenzying and it worked just fine in that.

>>96782700
Werewolf rage is a bit different from getting frenzied since you'd probably turn into a retard when you do the Crinos form and then it would sort of invalidate the point of it. Action game-lite or CRPG might be the way to go with werewolf I think

>>96782663
Turning hunters in general seems like a fast way to get betrayed even if it's a sabbat group doing it as a prank

>>96782664
>>96782695
>org of spooks investigating nocturnal threats that may be around
>is active during the night when said spooks are actually up and moving
Seems legit. I think ghouling would've been more appropriate

>>96782626
This sounds even worse than I imagined.
Some random guy's cyoa (based on v5, to make things worse) is actually more interesting than this trash.

Um

>>96782737
Hunters still do things in the day time, even the org ones. Them being totally unavailable and despondent during the day or needing to "sneak away" for food as well might be pretty hard give aways. Just seems like something that'd be easy to notice seeing how all the vampire games and the general ruleset makes you go out of your way to hunt for blood

>>96782738
allegedly this is with all the choices at the first half of the game not mattering as well so actually even worse than the CYOA games put out based on v5

>>96781935
>KoTE: Like the original Bloodlines, but set in Japan.
Hong Kong or Singapore would make more sense

>>96782751
True and probably in due time it'd come to bite them in the ass. Admittedly anon's explanation kind of glosses over how the hunter we turn is more of the group's leader just in seattle, so there's maybe a slight case about being a middle manager slowly disappearing if this was something else. It's an odd choice over all but the agent and IAO presence were there to investigate when they stepped into big things. They weren't coming here forewarned.

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>>96781871
Ain’t no big three, it’s just big me.

>>96782760
>CYOA games
Actually, I was talking about that cyoa from the cyoa thread. I never doubted Bloodlines 2 would be worse than, say, Night Road.

>>96782726
The only time I can think of it working out was Karl Schrekt, probably because under the weight of the Tremere Pyramid, he talked himself into the position that the Camarilla is good for humanity because if you can't exterminate vampires, you might as well back the only government that even attempts to get them to self-regulate and cut down on the wanton killing.

Unironically killing the SI should be the easiest way to deal with them, they can't rightfully bring the entire government in on this without creating a full-blown Broken Masquerade situation, which for whatever reason, they want to avoid. Which means even if they have local numerical superiority, they quite ironically recuperate losses far slower. Stand and fight is your best option, because you can make more ghouls and disposable childer than they can recruit new operator guys. It's a bit of a game of Masquerade chicken, but they already hold all the cards, if they wanted the Masquerade gone, they would've at least attempted it. Of course, this thought never occurred to the V5 writers, because they wrote the SI as if it were inclement rather than an actual group of people subject to logistics, infighting, human error, etc. Granted, if they actually thought the SI through, they'd realize they basically removed 90% of the fun Hunter stuff in previous games (that most tables ignored) just to make an unwieldy setting fixture that most tables will by necessity rather than choice have to ignore.

God, I hate the SI. Who wanted SAD and the Society of Leopold to be thrown into a blender? Just rip off Vigil's TF:V if you wanted SAD to have more teeth.

>>96781011
I'd say she has high socials. She always gets exactly what she wants out of people even though everyone hates her, and they consistently fall for her misdirections.

Her only weak skill would be Empathy.

>>96782789
All of them are probably better than Bloodlines 2 except say the "Vampire" game where you play Hunters, I played a few recently and despite what amounts to an extremely rushed end-game at least you kind of feel like there's more going on and with non-railroaded options. Honestly, I question if even the Hunter game pretending to be Vampire is worse than bloodlines 2

>>96782726
Beckett did it once.

>>96782818
Yeah and it was a horrible idea that blew up in his face.

>>96782781
B-but
>Setting
:|
>Setting, Japan
:O

>>96782814
I just can't enjoy hunter games in general, so I'll agree with you - except for sins of the sires, that was pure shit. Not even bloodlines 2 can be worse, r-right?

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>>96782726
But what if Hunters force a vampire to embrace one of them and infiltrate the Kindred society?

>>96782814
>the "Vampire" game where you play Hunters,
Which one is that?

>>96782841
Out for blood, I think

>>96782795
>Hunter turned Tremmy ends up being a vampire spook instead of a hunter spook
Not surprised there.
The SI does seem kind of like a stupid writing choice, the entire premise of v5 seems to
>Thing we warned would happened actually happened
>everything fucking sucks now btw
Probably why V5 just kind sucks to play, the whole Gehenna situation happened too fast so now you have to write the Vampire politics as disconnected and scattered because of the setting not because of unique circumstances of lacking power structure like how LaCroix and the Camarilla are relatively new to LA which allowed Bloodlines to have rather loose political maneuvering. I remember reading a scene in Night Road where my character avoided every single Masquerade breach and the head of the SI just corners him in a store and goes
>We know you're a Vampire but we don't want to do anything about it since your boss is who we're after (for now)
It's just rather absurd to make the setting even more restrictive on how many spooks are monitoring you. I think HtP is smartly ignoring that part of the setting though I understand why official products can't ignore v5

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>>96782814
>>96782846
Because H5 wasn't out at the time. It's an off-brand Hunter game released masquerading under the Vampire brand. Weird situation at best.

>>96782840
A simple use of Dominate or Blood Bonding would have covered up that plot hole.

>>96782626
>Second Inquisition leader that you run into, you get an option to kill them or embrace them. If you kill them, the game forces you into a fail state and your ending epilogue will flip to "SI kills everyone" no matter what
what the fucking fuck, this is ridiculous

>>96782839
Played Beast of Glenkildove, it was alright. I feel like it did the Hunter thing alright but your choices are basically
>ignore all context purge the supernatural
>ignore your instincts and willingly side with your potentially gay furry retarded best friend
>kowtow to a leech who's also pretty retarded herself and clearly hasn't done any research
Also, ignored a lot of the lore going on since the whole Werewolf plotline is pure headcannon
>>96782841
>>96782846
Out for blood, called a V:tM game but it's Hunter Larping in the vampire setting

>>96782858
They also made a full H5 CYOA called Hunter: The Reckoning – The Beast of Glenkildove that came out earlier this year but I've not played that

>>96782840
>implying the Vamp will go through with it
>implying that he won't feed you bad info as a joke
>unloicensed siring
>Huntard with clearly low impulse control now has to deal with the beast and humanity
Seems doomed to failure

>>96782888
Beast of Glenkildove is okay, as a Hunter game. Completely misunderstands Vampire and Werewolf though, and unfortunately you play as a perpetual victim until maybe the last act

>>96782893
>>implying the Vamp will go through with it
That's how Dracula turned himself, though. He forced a vampire to Embrace him.

>>96782902
>Completely misunderstands Vampire and Werewolf though
always found that to be in character for hunters. it's not like they have access to vampire/werewolf society, they just occasionally run into them and have to cross-connect shit.

>>96782906
Vlad is based for making the Tzimisce forever seethe at his existence.

>>96782914
No you actually do have access in this one because
>your schizoid conspiracy theorist buddy tells you stuff she learned about vamps
>vampire willingly talks to you because she wants to get the fuck out of that place
>buttbuddies with a werewolf (maybe)
>some fae bitch gives you a literal flashback to pre-history
>only small tidbits of corporations wanting werewolf dna and samples but it's for "longevity experience"
It's more like you play a Hunter story disconnected entirely from the WoD setting because despite having at least 2 sources for every setting possible it's all contradictory and often pretty incorrect. It isn't bad but I found it was less interactive than Night Road by quite a bit. Mechanics are also a lot worse since the edges kind of don't do anything until they do

>>96782906
that was before the Camarilla were doing their whole faggotry about needing approval to sire vampires

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>>96782919
It's what Vlad is good at

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>>96782893
>>96782968
It works in the comic anon is referencing because everyone is fucking retarded. Lead takes pity on newly embraced Caitiff she comes across and actually uses her siring rights to cover up for her. It ends about as well as you can imagine.

>>96782828
Hey, someone recognised the joke I intended in that post.

>>96782968
uh dude guy is a tzimisce and vlad was fighting 3 archons hours before his embrace dude did not give a fuck about the camarilla traditions

not that this is even true because the need for approval from the prince was already a thing in most dark age cities centuries before the camarilla became a thing

>>96782996
Have they even made comics since 2021?

>>96782968
What anon said is true. Most of Camarilla's ethos and traditions basically came from civilized western domains, like France and Baronies of Avalon. Common sense things became a necessity under strong rulers and increased number of mortals in ever growing cities. Mithras ran a tight ship.

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>>96782996
>because everyone is fucking retarded
To be fair, this is the Camarilla of Minnesota we’re talking about here.

>>96782906
WoD Dracula had stupidly thick plot armor and that's the only reason he pulled that off.

>>96783015
You'd just think the Camarilla would try to get involved anyway
>>96782996
I'm guessing it goes very poorly but also
>Minnesota
lmfao

>>96783065
>Dracula had stupidly thick plot armor
In other words
>The Eldest thought it would be funny as fuck

>>96782856
The entire premise of V5 is schizophrenic. The hand of the author is so damn heavy it's not even funny. It wants to free you from too many elders making politics an old vamp's game, so they're all gone to Gehenna (nothing ever happens edition). But they're immediately replaced with less interesting, less plausible, and more severe restrictions. It wants to humanityfag without counterpoint so the Sabbat have also gone to the nothingburger thunderdome, which also leaves you without inhuman monster vampires to help accentuate the importance of humanity. The SI feels like the creation of someone who was tired of their playgroup ignoring hunters and getting away with Masquerade breaches, and who couldn't figure out as ST how to make those consequence Hunters a threat to their coterie which had a collective Celerity rating of 17. So fuck it, he handwaves it, feds fall you die.

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>>96783151
>It wants to humanityfag without counterpoint so the Sabbat have also gone to the nothingburger thunderdome, which also leaves you without inhuman monster vampires to help accentuate the importance of humanity.
Don't be like that, anon. They left you with Thinbloods and propped to a ridiculously relevant position now. You know, for players who want to play as vampires but not really BE vampires so there are minimal drawbacks to deal with.

>>96783151
Kek, that sounds about right for all the shit I've read

>>96783151
>>96783179
it's what happens when you cherry pick ideas from masquerade and requiem without full context of their separate existences

>>96783179
Oh man don't get me started. I actually liked Thinbloods even if you divorced them from Gehenna. But making them more than unfortunates, dregs, robs them of most of what makes them fun. Sure, they're not really player character material most of the time but not everything needs to be. I even like the idea of giving them fringe benefits from having a weakened curse. If you want their numbers to continue to increase, there's far better angles to take than "we pulled a weird-pseudo blood sorcery out of our ass for them" and suddenly making them a political bloc.

>>96783197
I'm genuinely curious, besides taking a lot of mechanics from CofD and Requiem (then doing them worse most of the time), what ideas did they actually take from Requiem? Because I'm somewhat familiar with Requiem too, and I don't see really it.

>>96783151
>>96783179
What's funny about this is that they are basically backtacking, hard.
They gave us Elder and Methuselah powers, they put less emphasis on Thinbloods (and anarchs) and they are doing an ancilla book.

They regret most the things they did at the start, what a surprise.

>>96783314
>>96783179
I think thinbloods are an interesting spin on the weakening of noble blood trope coming from Caine's curse, tying them to the coming apocalypse is likewise pretty interesting, but putting a huge focus on them seems like some faggy bullshit about making characters who are designed to be supernatural mega-victims instead of just guys in bad circumstances like a PC vampire is pretty cringe. They're more interesting as set dressing and the occasional unfortunate PC but making them a huge focus just sort of ruins the appeal

>>96783325
Best they can do rn is just a complete reboot I think and gloss over the whole "apocalypse happened in 2004 and everything sucks now" angle that nWoD has

>>96783356
Better to put it on ice I say. Another reboot would just fracture the already fractured fanbase AGAIN. WoD is already the Balkans of TTRPGs.

Also
>nWoD
You're talking about WoD5 though. I need to make a fucking infographic on the three WoDs already.

>>96783076
>You'd just think the Camarilla would try to get involved anyway
again they did, guy still had a army at the time and already beat up the archons in the region including a signature character

>>96783325
Not to mention Thinblood Alchemy was ridiculously OP at first.

>>96783379
>WoD is already the Balkans of TTRPGs.
It really is. Nothing comes close.

>>96783379
>Better to put it on ice I say. Another reboot would just fracture the already fractured fanbase AGAIN. WoD is already the Balkans of TTRPGs.

in the end there will be a wod for everyone! as in every single group in the world will be able to play another published version of wod or wod clone and somehow all of them have tremere

>>96783379
I mean more like a reboot to follow the old WoD lines without jumping immediately into some apocalypse that ruins the setting, basically continuing old WoD without the same trappings of v5

>>96783478
I mean, you CAN just play V20 in perpetuity. That's the "apocalypse got cancelled" scenario.

>>96783464
Maybe not be as far as for self-sabotaging DnD has been running itself into the ground since 5e

>>96783379
They already had a pretty good system in the 2010s, just go back to that.

>>96783487
yeah though WoD having the accessibility of later game editions without raping the tone of the game would be nice too

speaking of bloodlines bros, even if 2 sells well can it be a financial success if Paradox already blew like 300 mill on the HSL version and all of their dev time?

>>96783567
Breaking even would probably be how they qualify it as a financial 'success'. Breaking even for TCR that is. I think at this point, and from what was linked last thread, they're busy sawing off their leg with v5 to care. They just want it out

>>96783541
I don't get why people say V20 isn't accessible. It's not very well balanced, and its mechanics are janky, but it's plenty accessible.

>>96783614
accessible I suppose from the pov of introducing normies (IRL friends primarily) to the IP

>>96783653
But it still is. What, you think only the latest edition can introduce someone to a game?

>>96783653
What normies/friends do you have that wouldn't accept the following sentence.

"Hey, so you guys wanna play VtM right? Cool, we're playing V20. It's not the most recent edition but honestly, I don't care for the new edition and I'm more familiar with V20 anyway."

It's not rocket surgery. D&D 4e was panned when it came out and so it extended the lifespan of 3.5/PF1e by a solid five or so years. 5e didn't overthrow it because it was new, it overthrew it because it was genuinely simplified without sacrificing too much of D&D's appeal.

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>>96782883
>ignore all context purge the supernatural
>ignore your instincts and willingly side with your potentially gay furry retarded best friend
>kowtow to a leech who's also pretty retarded herself and clearly hasn't done any research
You know damn well which one I'm going for

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>>96783708

>>96783732
>Inquisitor going Bruce Lee on some ghoulds before facing the vampire at the end
Would be pretty funny

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Is there any vault supplement that makes Daimonion actually have proper rules I can give to players? Asking for myself.

>>96783708
The whole Huntard supremancy angle has you side with some African Society of St. Leopald Lady who is more than a little shifty so I feel like in general you're kind of cucked for options
>side with furries (likeable, but retarded)
>side with leech (retarded and likeable but also clearly evil)
>side with we wuz catholics (not likeable, less retarded than furries, at least human)
I feel like the game saying you can learn occult stuff and then the only instance of that happening is when you learn a spell to turn woofs back to normal humans or actual wolves that you can only get by ignoring what other people tell you and being a book nerd. The time management aspect I somewhat liked about Night Road isn't present at all in the game so you feel rushed along as well. I just feel like there wasn't really any compelling choices

>>96784026
>African Society of St. Leopald Lady who is more than a little shifty
That's pretty normal, the society won't share anything with you if you're a literally who random and not a member

>>96784062
I'm talking lies to you and treats you as werewolf bait shifty

>>96784062
>>96784107
though also you get to betray her and nothing happens from it, so it very much doesn't matter

>>96783151
Blame the larpers who started V5 in the first place. Swedish scene is very much into misery porn, and they'll loudly sperg out if your game doesn't conform to their standards or doesn't include wholesome minorities.

>>96784138
How are they not finnish if they're that hard up for misery porn?

>>96784161
All Scandinavians love misery porn and have autism

>>96783314
they could just make it so thinbloods cant embrace because they have blood potency 0 like ghouls or something and when it thickens over time then they can act like normal vampires so there is never really a "last" generation just a period of absolute shitterness

>>96782626
>>Second Inquisition leader that you run into, you get an option to kill them or embrace them. If you kill them, the game forces you into a fail state and your ending epilogue will flip to "SI kills everyone" no matter what
I just love how dogshit of a setting V5 is that you can say this phrase and the room doesn't burst laughing. "Vampire" game my ass.
>>The big bad guy apparently has been spamming Dementation on Lou all these years but it barely reflects onto the story or dialogue
Ah yes. The elders are nothing and can be manipulated by random retards with the most basic bitch power. But also you can't play the Sabbath.

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>>96780894
>TQ - What is your least favorite faction and why?
The Tal Mahe Ra only exist as the dumping ground for all the plotless subfactions the writers have come up with over the years. You've got

>Nagaraja
>Bahari
>Baali
>Trujah
>Old Clan Tzimisce
>Harbingers
>Tlacique despite the Nagaraja explicitly hating anything Setite
>Daughters of Cacophony
SOMEHOW all working together and secretly manipulating both Cam AND Sabbat? And neither the elders in Hunedoara nor the Regent know? Get out of here.

The idea of a secret Ghost Enoch where the Antes sleep and a shadowy cabal that worships them is cool, but the rest is just there because the writers had no idea what to do with either of those bloodlines or the Muh Venture fear the Secret Masters plot.

>>96784362
Have you thanked the Smiling Lord for nuking them today?

>>96784362
don't forget the ass-mite tribe that loves the second gens despite the true black hand being pro 3rd gen and the faeblooded vampies who are not a bloodline and neither benefit from the sect in any tangible way nor do anything for the sect but are still somehow totally members

or how litterally everyone but some middle eastern ventrue and the nagarja are secretly traitors
>>96784387
i mean can we? he is just a pawn in this. anubis only had one of his minions found the true black hand so that they would be nuked and cause the malestrom and wake up osiris

>>96784362
>>Baali
Baalibros, we are so back!

>>96781935
>Changeling: You awaken to your nature as a faerie soul inhabiting a human body. Your local freehold invites you to learn their ways, and you get immersed in Seelie vs. Unseelie, noble fae vs. commoner fae politics. Your main questline is mostly about figuring out tricksy ways of navigating Banality infused areas like the DMV to get your driver's license renewed and/or how to look at a tax form without instantly getting your fae soul deleted by the sheer Banality of the object. Oh and you have lots of sex with hot Sidhe and Satyr sluts

You could make a Doom-styled mummy game or a Wolfestein-styled Wraith game and it would be kino

>>96784630
Every side quest is some shit like this:
>Player-kun... I touched the forbidden TI-92 calculator... I t-tried to do a few basic algebraic equations to determine my current cost of living... I'm forgetting the Dreaming... help me aieeeee
Do you destroy the Banal calculator and cover up her crime, or murder your fae friend for bringing such an object into the freehold and breaking a dozen laws?

>>96784630
Final boss is actually an office worker doing accounting

>>96784653
>no option to shove the calculator up her ass (sexually)
0/10

>>96784669
Beware the Autumn People...
>>96784674
that's the Shadow Court route option where you just start doing horrible things to people for no reason other than being a dick until you get invited to join them and help the Thallain to take over North America

>>96784669
That reminds me of anon posting that disco elysium guy 2 threads back. I can totally see it
>Attacks are just spewing political bullshit without actually saying anything

>>96781805
Getting shoved into the middle of a dysfunctional pack or having to build one over the course of a game sounds like a fantastic time to me. It would give you plenty of excuses for your character to be mostly doing their own thing.

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Congratulations Anon!
You, yes you, have the privilege of taking one of these fine neonates out for an all expenses paid night on the town!

Which gal are you taking?
Where are you taking her?
How well does the date go (what pools are you rolling from)?

Difficulty 6.

>>96784767
Kek, final boss being some guy yelling about women and fascism and communism and this his hemorrhaged brain perfectly calculates all your measurements from your shadow or something. I think the big jew guy in Disco who pretends he has a brother he swaps with would probably be huge final boss energy

>>96784802
I'm taking the Tremere girl to a place with quiet music so I can better spill my spaghetti.

Quick question on Werewolf the Apocalypse. Are wyldlings like a sub-set of nature spirits, or are they something completely unrelated. If the latter, what exactly is the delineation.

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>>96784767
2% inflation
>Changelings in a 2 mile radious die instantly

>>96784228
When the blood potency gets that low it's time for all the vampires to get eaten again and the cycle starts over.

>>96784767
I always thought Disco Elysium is the closest we'll ever get to a CtD game. You're a satyr that just has been Undone.

>>96784950
The disco devs had a lot of potential with their engine and artstyle to adapt a lot of the more RP-centric games like Call of Cthulhu and WoD yeah. Too bad they're dead and split apart, I doubt all of those factors are going to come together anytime soon

>>96784802
I take the Ventrue girl out because some retard stuttering in her presence and unable to meet her gaze is prolly what she's used to so I'm hoping to blend in with her other simps.

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>>96784920
>price stabilité

>>96784950
I feel like he's more of a Marauder mage, he's not really fighting against banality. One of the copotypes is straight up Boring Cop, plus Kim while an awesome partner is fairly banal himself.

Rolled 6, 4, 3 = 13 (3d10)

>>96784802
I <3 Gangrel pussy
Let’s see how well this date goes.

>>96785146
Banality doesn't matter once you're Undone. He's going around, inserting himself into everyone's life and making it more interesting and whimsical. Even when you're the Boring Cop you're still getting laid in your own imagination and hunting cryptids, and Kim's a pinball wizard.

>>96785177
kek

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>>96784802
Malkavian and we're doing this (without the gun)

>>96785204
i had a concept of a electronics repair shopkeep who delved deep into the conspiracy hole and got bit by a malk
now he walks around having conversations with anything that has an antenna

>>96785182
Oh, didn't know that's how it worked, not super familiar with CtD. Guess it could go that way too.

>>96782685
The most attractive first person action story in Wraith is probably getting Risen and everything that goes into achieving that, then spending it for a Skinlands boss fight in where you're finally annihilated in a good, bad, or neutral way.

>>96785370
Sure Risen seems the way to go if you want to have something that a player can work for but it misses the whole accepting your death angle from ghost media quite a lot

>>96785232
Undoing is when a Changeling "dies". Upon being overcome with Banality they forget their fae nature as their soul goes to sleep. This is usually temporary, but in the most severe cases it can be permanent. Harry getting super depressed and going on a bender, only to forget literally everything while all of his former friends/coworkers have to look on as he embarrasses himself is a pretty good representation of what this would look like. The satyr Tequila Sunset died that night so that the man, Harry, could live.

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>>96784387
Honestly I never got what was up with the Ghost Nuke/Avatar Storm/Dimensional Anomaly in the Week of Nightmares. Gonna have to look up a quick rundown of Wraith lore one of these days.
>>96784426
>don't forget the ass-mite tribe that loves the second gens despite the true black hand being pro 3rd gen
Wait I thought those guys were the regular Black Hand
>Kyasid
Yeah them too. Why do the weirdlings of all clans get to have any secret control I have no idea
>some middle eastern ventrue
Some Ashirra?

>>96785751
Harry's bender immediately prior to the start of the game could very well be a fit of Bedlam, actually

>>96784934
thats how you get a stagnant world and stupid shit like the gehenna war because they will never in a million years destroy civilisation and restart the world from the stone age its just not going to happen, they need to drop the end times nonsense the dark ages vampire didnt need it why should modern vampire need it?

>>96784426
>>96785810
How the fuck do the Kyasid have any control? They're so small and such a non-entity that they're non-existent outside of the dark age. They're also like seven feet minimum.

>>96784920
Final reveal is that this dude is a Technocrat.

>>96785751
>he doesn't know that Harry could be the latest Innocence and therefore Awakened

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About a week ago, I saw a post about the appropriate music to set the tone for a World of Darkness session. It seems that different generations and different demographics have different associations and expectations for an urban horror/fantasy setting.
This got me thinking about a post-pandemic World of Darkness. I am not referring merely to the in-world setting after COVID-19, but also to the writing and conceptualization of the setting by the authors and artists. For example, in the 1990s, both the real world and the World of Darkness felt on the cusp of the apocalypse. The World of Darkness had its end-of-days, but the real world moved right on past the Y2K Scare into the new millennium. Then, September 11th happened.
Suddenly, after a brief stint of ecological disaster movies, we were bombarded with post-apocalyptic scenarios, mostly involving zombies. (So, so, many zombie movies...) We felt ready for a clean slate and a chance to prove ourselves in a world falling and fallen apart.
This trend, too, eventually passed. Then, came nostalgia and grieving for futures that never came, utopias promised by corporations and naive speculators. This was the peak of hauntology, vaporwave, and retrofuturism/retromania. And we were primed for being "terminally online".
Once COVID-19 finally swept the globe, then eventually faded, so much and so little had changed. If we had just undergone a drastic, life-changing experience, why did nothing really change? Why does nothing ever seem to happen any more?
We feel isolated and lonely, shouting into an electronic void where any responses may not even be human.

I'd also like to gesture towards "liminal spaces" and analog horror for a peek into the psyche of the younger generations and their hopes and fears.

>>96786344
All of this is to say that a World of Darkness written for/by today's players would be drastically different in tone, scope, and consideration than previous editions, even setting aside the more "woke/politically correct" aspects that a lot of people dislike.
And, I hope that you'll indulge me in at least a bit of idle brainstorming.

Enjoy some Caretaker.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNcMnpvA07J9e0xgzevPHz_77vfD-v7DV

>>96785901
It's a theory they pose in the very first corebook to explain blood potency and generations. You don't need to destroy the world just for the vampires to gobble themselves all up.

>>96782828
How would you handle yōkai? Would they be fae, or spirits, or their own thing?

>>96784637
Do it.

>>96786470
I'd consider it but it'd likely be a poopy free to play one, if it's big it wouldn't be free though I also don't want to give Paradox royalties

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If I were to redesign/reimagine the World of Darkness, I'd start by making mortals and/or hunters the starring line(s).

>>96786594
Just play V5, is perfect for retards like you.

>>96786594
Vomit inducing. Even making mages the protagonists would suck because mortals are lame. Vampires aren't my favorite splat, but they're objectively the best poster children.

>>96786594
Make it Wraith. Vampires are now wraiths that inhabit a corpse. Werewolves are now wraiths that inhabit an animal, or maybe an animal wraith that inhabits a human. Mages are now wraiths who have seen the truth of the world and inhabit a mortal adult. Changelings are wraiths that steal the body of a mortal child. Hunters are aided by wraiths to hunt other wraiths. Mummies are multiple wraiths inhabiting a single person. Wraiths can still be wraiths. It's wraiths all the way down.

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>>96787096

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>>96786594
>I'd start by making mortals...the starring line(s).

>>96787096
Make werewolves specters and you're onto something

>>96787121
Sorry, I forgot to add that Demons are now specters, formed by other supernaturals who died a second death.

I honestly thought Paradox's ideas sucked ass but most of yours are just as bad.

>>96786594
I mean, if I were to ever run something it'd probably be similar, because I like setting up mysteries and feel that the unknown should be delved into gradually. I also hate how humans are typified in the WoD as cannon fodder or passing casualties while every splat embodies one mental illness and/or social dysfunction or another. I like the idea of setting up trails and the weirder shit being what you encounter when you slide off the trail.

>>96787118
And you see how that worked out.

>>96787177
Half the fun of being a monster is being in contrast to the "norm". Also, Hunter: the Vigil is probably my favorite New World of Darkness line.

>>96785909
IIRC they spend their evey waking hour studying so they probably have done leverage on stuff
Also idk why you even brought up them being tall, it's not like that's a disadvantage to having control

>>96787201
Pretty great until Paradox got mad that it was cutting into WoD5's market?

>>96787224
I get it, but I'm also the type where I don't mind the idea of turning cities into impassable necropoli and the world in general into an absurd nightmare parody of itself where the nature of play on the table is pathfinding, reclamation, and seeking explanation.
Like, there's a fun hook pulled fresh from my brain. One day, 30% of the population of a city went missing. Only those who aware of the nature of it can perceive it, as though those people are missing they continue to visibly exist and interact with the world. But they're not there. They're not even there in the sense of something like a fetch. They just aren't there. What stands in their place is simply an echo, but they are gone. But the actual people just poofed. And so figuring something like that out might be a big, spanning campaign for the sort of thing I like.
Or take something like that and then go further. You're aware of it happening, so you see it. And then you end up in another city. And it is entirely gone. The city appears to those unversed completely normal and happy. But with the privilege of sight you see the reality. Everyone is gone. Outlines remain where people were. The sky is blood red, and atop every building are gargoyles. But they aren't gargoyles. They're shadows shaped like gargoyles. On every building. Looking down over the empty expanse of the city. Unmoving, but undisturbed. Ominous, but simply present. Hopefully not noticing, if even it is within their capability, that you notice them.

>>96787311
Rambling aside, I like the idea of setting up freaky shit and giving players the opportunity to slide down the mud-covered banks when they stick their noses in the wrong places. So yeah, probably hunter-adjacent I guess.

>>96781813
I would migrate to /VTM/ in a heartbeat. I wouldn't mind taking the woofs with us. The rest of the vermin can stay in their irrelevant corners.

>>96787262
The 2e lines being their own self-contained books is objectively an improvement over 1e nWoD's core rulebook format and every gameline being an expansion.

>>96781813
No? Where did you get that idea.
Even I play both and run both games.

>>96781011
All of her stats are sky high. She's a Mary Sue by design.

>>96787468
cross splat posters are annoying

>>96782840
There is only one hunter who succeeded at doing that and his name was Dracula

>>96787118
>you need a baseline corebook to which you then apply the splat book
what a weird decision just to get everyone to buy one additional book

>>96786344
The younger generations are terrified of waking up in a Kafkaesque nightmare realm and so they cope by giving these places rules they can follow to stay (relatively) safe

It's dealing with a lot of anxiety over not knowing what to do after a childhood of being raised to follow orders

>>96781813
No, those are all secondaries from Bloodlines 2 and Alfabusa, plus Twitterfags talking politics. The only people who play actual games right now are Hunter the Vigil players.

>>96782663
Is not funny how shitposters used to complain about metaplot, but the SI is literally the most OC donut steel mary sues to ever exist? glad that Parashit is getting fucked in the ass

>>96781871
The magefags haven't been fucked by Paradox yet, they're still out there feeling smug.

It's coming mages. It's clear they have no idea how to do it considering they are taking so long and releasing everything else first. They are going to be 'personal horrored' harder than the woofs were.

>>96786344
>Why does nothing ever seem to happen any more?
people are so feed up with the system they're on the streets and willing to go for blood against billionaires

>>96787461
NTA but I don't think that's the case. There is a lot that the 1e core books had that the 2e ones simply lacked the space for and I don't think it's a clear improvement.

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Hey guys, I do have a question regarding werewolf gifts and vampires. It seems no gaian spirit would want to work with the undead, but the Danislav Revenant line has the benefit of learning Shadowlord gifts up to level 3 as out of clan discipline.
But I assume that this is only due to them being corrupted kinfolk and more importantly, alive.
So that leaves only wyrm spirits for vampos if they managed to contact them? Or are there any “regular” spirits that would work with vamps?
Thanks for the help.

>>96787605
Posters who complain about cross-splats are even more annoying.

can't wait to create /vtm/ and leave this shit hole with the schizos and the warhammer LARPer wanna bes

>>96787749
>Mage: The Academy
>it's american dark academia Harry Potter
I'm calling it

>>96784361
>>96782874
>>96782664
>>96782663
I forget the exact writer, but didn't V5 intentionally bring on a particular TTRPG author with a boner for hunters, who is responsible for a quote like "every vampire chronicle should end with the players being cornered and killed by hunters?"

This seems to be in line with that.

>>96787879
Unironically the safest option for them.

>>96787883
if anyone finds a source for that it would be awesome. sounds like something a lolcow would say. could be a fun rabbit hole

>>96787841
>So that leaves only wyrm spirits for vampos if they managed to contact them?

The werewolf side (specifically the book dark age werewolf) that vampires can only interact with wyrm spirits. this is however balantly false if you actually read vtm books where there are several discipline powers that allow you to summon and command spirits that would be gayan spirits by wta standard with one path (elemental mastery) predating the entirety of wta itself

it's just one of these cases where wta's cosmology bites itself with the other games which is why nearly every st book from the other games tell you to disregard wta's cosmology unless you are doing a crossover but if you are doing a crossover then going bane only for vampires is probably the saver option as otherwise you are messing with it's trinity which is one of the core concepts of werewolf

>But I assume that this is only due to them being corrupted kinfolk and more importantly, alive.
going by transilvania by night it's just because they asked grandfather thunder and build altars for him, but it should be noted that they prayed for him to empower them for their secretly planned rebellion against the tzimisce who are ancestral enemies to the shadowlords and that spirits are thinking beings with wants

>>96787841
Vamps would have a very hard time even contacting spirits or realising they are a thing in the first place. Their undead natures makes them even less spiritually attuned than a normal human. Vamps can become formori though. It's one of those things that most vampires would avoid if they knew what they are getting into.

You could make the argument that as creatures of stasis a weaver spirit might be willing to use vampires, but either way they will always be wyrm tainted. I don't think there are any official examples of vampires aligned with weaver spirits or having their gifts.

>>96785810
>>96785909
no i am talking about a Maeghar the fae caitiff guys who the kyasid bullied into leaving their name behind

these guys despite not being a real bloodline, not having any organisation and not benefiting at all have somehow joined the true blackhand in mass and the blackhand let them despite not gaining anything from it and the fact that they kill normal caitiff on sight

>>96787950
I agree, because there is this wierd modern cat-bloodline and the lhiannam from dark ages.
>>96787959
Thaumaturgy works, v20 has spirit manipulation for example. Auspex could also help with percieving them, maybe.

I do not get masquerade spirits that well, it seems to me that all spirits that would and could stomach vampires outside of enslavement would be wyrm spirits because even gaian hunger/blood/darkness spirits would smell corruption on them. Thanks for answering.

>>96781011
She's stated explicitly by the narration to not realize how her actions might make her look to other people so she'd at bare minimum have that reflected stat wise.
>>96781630
This is the exact type of dumb shit she would argue about

>>96781621
>>96788051
You can be a complete sperg with 5 charisma or you can be a suave motherfucker with 1, neither will matter when it actually counts, ie when dice are rolled.

The fluff on those stats, just like all the rest, is irrelevant. Only their mechanical function actually means anything.

>>96788017
>I agree, because there is this wierd modern cat-bloodline and the lhiannam from dark ages.
there is also koldunism in sins of the father they get rituals that work on Gafflings

>I do not get masquerade spirits that well, it seems to me that all spirits that would and could stomach vampires outside of enslavement would be wyrm spirits because even gaian hunger/blood/darkness spirits would smell corruption on them.
for most of it's lifetime vtm most often used the same spirits and demons as mage and vice versa and wyrm taint is not a thing in mage (the closest if jhor which is sometimes said to be the same for crossover purposes but it's more oblivion related) as in mage the wyrm there is just a powerful avatar of a outerlord not a metaphisical force of reality and unlike in wta nearly all spirits are made by human imagination

which is not to say that even these spirits like being summoned by a vampire a elemental summon with the path of elemental mastery will attack if you botch the roll, but it won't attack because of wyrm taint but because it's a classical elemental summoned by a sorcerer against it's will who fucked up the spell which may or may not pained the spirit or insulted it

>>96787883
Wow. I mean, I'm a hunterfag and all but that is simply retarded.

>>96787883
I do remember reading something like that here around the time v5 came out.
Also, something about said idiot constantly interrupting others and going "and then hunters appear and kill all vampires!" like some Chrischan-tier idiot.

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>>96784920
Built for Ailil ravaging

Is there any reason to play Paradox Werewolf with the new material out?

>>96788214
Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_masochism_disorder

Outside of the core book and lore of the clans, are there any other sources of merits and or flaws in V20?

>>96787841
If they're able to commune with spirits, then it's really just a matter of chiminage. Wyld spirits might be less welcoming to them as they are not only dead, but undead, and the Beast marks them out as Wyrm aligned on a spiritual level, but spirits aren't as concerned about that as woofs are.

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Hi fellas.
Looking to put a Hunter game together.
Game day/time will be discussed when we have the gang together. Same for the game's setting. Time period will be modern day.

If you're interested, here's a recruitment/containment discord that will be deleted after we get a group together.
https://discord.gg/R5ZvxKBW

>>96788330
voice game alert

>>96788330
Forgot to mention:
We'll be playing over vc, using Roll20 for dice rolls.

>>96788364
Thanks for checking B, forgot to mention it in the initial post.

>>96787749
>It's coming mages.
Yes, and I'm comfy with the books I have. Any idea when this bs is releasing? The shit show is going to be entertaining.

>>96787879
That would be appalling but not surprising.

>>96784767
Reinder that DE commies are aware of the consensus
>This book is on Ignus Nilsen's theory on the relationship between thoughts and matter. He argued that thoughts don't just reside within the mind but radiate outwards from it in rays of politicized energy he called "plasm". He speculated that strong enough plasm could influence material reality, from which follows the name of the theory: infra-materialism. This plasm is generated by humans alone, though there have been efforts to organise species of aquatic mammal and higher corvids in the SRV.

>>96784920
His Banality rating?

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>>96787647
>Kafkaesque
>>96787761
A bunch of Boomers standing around with signs is not a revolution.

>>96788851
When the boomers are turning against the state you know shit's hitting the fan. All that's gonna come of it is a bunch of geriatrics with broken faces when the brownskirts kick their shit in. Americans are the most cuckolded race, at this point they are just perennially scared cattle.

>>96788547
Tepid

>>96786344
>If we had just undergone a drastic, life-changing experience, why did nothing really change? Why does nothing ever seem to happen any more?
Because every generation thinks they're special and went through something unique. The reality of it is that things are always happening, and they always have. You probably have different perspective on it compared to someone older/younger. It's the old "the state of the world in my developmental years as a youth is the status quo, everything before that is old and outdated, everything after that is a newfangled fad". It doesn't just apply to technology or media, people just have a real hard time adapting to things unless forced to.

>>96788330
My hours are unreliable, so I can't.

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>>96784920
>Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who *critique* capital end up *reinforcing* it instead
Syndicatechads always win

>>96788910
>The reality of it is that things are always happening, and they always have.
Citation needed.

>>96787635
In 2E you don't, but it's great to have for running mortals games and using as a generic game system.

>>96788888
>it's another episode of "/wodg/ posters don't go outside and base their knowledge of reality on youtube shorts and discord memes"
We need new writers

>>96789115
I keep applying as an Ideas Guy, but they refuse to hire me until I get a circumcision.

>>96782856
>I remember reading a scene in Night Road where my character avoided every single Masquerade breach and the head of the SI just corners him in a store and goes
>>We know you're a Vampire but we don't want to do anything about it since your boss is who we're after (for now)
That shit pissed me off so badly I dropped the game right then and there and never touched it again. Setting aside how obnoxiously railroady that scene was, any kine that approached a Cam vampire so brazenly would end up as burger meat right then and there, fed or no fed. And yet I could do nothing against the bitch except some ineffectual threats the game did not allow me to follow through with. Whoever wrote Night Road is a retarded faggot and probably a tertiary.

>>96789295
The guy admittedly understands the setting better than other writers and the game sort of handles the general scenario better with less railroading but yeah the SI always wins, Julian's always a sneak, etc

>>96781011
High social attributes. Remember, EP6 talks a bit about her life previous to Rokkenjima and she was an actress. She knows how to charm people and be social around others.

>>96787177
>I also hate how humans are typified in the WoD as cannon fodder or passing casualties while every splat embodies one mental illness and/or social dysfunction or another.

I get that. Vampire at least pays lip service to the idea humans as worth considering and that any vamp that doesn't view them as a credible threat is a fool. But after that the notion falls off very quickly, and mortals feel more like a resource or background fixture.

Hunter: the Vigil is probably your best pick if you want a mortal-centric game.

>>96787177
>I also hate how humans are typified in the WoD as cannon fodder or passing casualties
Anon, every supernatural splat is you playing as humans. That's the secret, WoD splats are just humans. Every single splat is about retaining your humanity against the uncaring cruelty of a "world of darkness" you've been thrust into by getting slapped with a curse or possessed by a demon or awakening your slumbering magical talents

>>96783891
No, the closest thing to that is the list of demonic investments and the level 6 power that gives them for "free".

>>96789115
Let's go outside together. I know a secluded park we could fuck on.

>>96788099
I'm also a hunterfag, and I hate it as well. There's no appeal to being a hunter if you're covered head to toe in plot armor and every monster your face is weak and inept.

How crazy can a chronicle get before it stretches your disbelief? And do different games have different ceilings of craziness before they feel stupid?

>>96789797
That always varies from person to person. I will admit I did a bitch and walked away from a table because a 9 month story ended with the ST having our vampires discover that the Society of Leopold has its own secret society, the Communion of Eustace, and we had to kill their leader so all vampires could be free of all organized hunters everywhere.

>>96789877
>the Society of Leopold has its own secret society, the Communion of Eustace,
I have no issue with secret societies having an ouroboros of even more secret cults hidden inside them, it's very appropriate to WoD. You peel back one shadow and a hundred more secrets spill out of the wallpaper, each hiding more secrets of their own.
>and we had to kill their leader so all vampires could be free of all organized hunters everywhere.
Yeah this is just stupid though, any sort of Chronicle where the ST tries to lump everyone of an entire very broad group (organized hunters) together into some kind of ur-conspiracy is the most annoying shit ever. You might as well have been told you're going to kill the Archangel Michael himself who keeps inspiring regular humans to take up arms against vampiric domination through visions and dreams.

>>96789475
>Julian's always a sneak
But you always get railroaded into allowing him in your haven and hearing him out. It's bullshit.

>>96789797
Depends on the splat and how it's integrated. If it's person-level I don't wanna deal with nation-wide things unless it's at the end of the story. I'd hope to be dealing with a local problem that's affecting me first, might lead to a state problem or not.
It's one of the things that irk me about the SI. They try and paint it similar to methuselah manipulation but they're too pointed most of the time to not be felt when you get anywhere above a local level. That's on top of the unbelievable notion that they'd organize that quickly.

>>96789567
There's no point in trying to reason with this type of people. For them is no about the game, but about their over-powered self-inserts being the untouchable Mary-sues of every single story they're in. They don't care you say this or that about the setting showing humanity in monsters, they only see monsters and "freaks" and that's gives them the ick because they're insure. They're the same type of people who constantly spam human male fighter slop. They're snowflakes while saying they hate snowflakes.

>>96789877
>and we had to kill their leader so all vampires could be free of all organized hunters everywhere.
That has got to be the biggest stretch there is. The SoL is suddenly responsible for every supernatural mistake that drives people to be hunters? The secret society just says fuck it and tries to group all hunters around the globe together? At this point make a new faction.

>>96789963
It is rather annoying that your character in Night Road is always one step behind everyone, as I understand it his 2nd one book of hungry names isn't like that allegedly. Unfortunately he's the only one writing those who actually get the setting

If I wanted to make an expy of Cole MacGrath for a Deviants game, would he be a Coactive (since he's an electrokinetic) or a Mutant (since his powers stem from a genetic mutation)?

>>96790662
are conduits even explained in Infamous? I thought that shit was basically pure magic between the time travel and the astral projection and the conduits springing back up in the sequel

>>96790662
If it's just him, I'd say coactive. Anything else would probably fit better with mutant cause he did have that vamp dlc during 2

>>96790716
As far as I can recall, Conduits are created when a latent genetic mutation is triggered by Ray Field energy, usually in the form of the Ray Sphere and related devices (and the Beast in the second game)

>>96790742
Interesting, supposed that shit goes out the window with second son. Would assume it's just mutants then
>>96790724
Shame what happened with Infamous, 3 extremely cool games despite second son being kind of mid. That Vamp DLC was kino

>>96790662
Sounds like Genotypal Coactive

>>96790751
Second Son was a disaster.

>>96790872
I wouldn't say it was a "disaster" the game looked good and the gameplay was neat enough, I think the DLC being so mediocre is what really killed it. The plot definitely went down the drain near the end of the game though

>>96790872
>>96790919
I felt like they were trying to ground it too much, removing all the sci-fi elements like the conspiracies, mutants, time travel, super-tech, and giant monsters

>>96788297
?

>>96790872
I thought it was alright. It really fell off by the time you get the concrete power though. Like
>Ok we got concrete, where's the post-game where you actually use your powers to break into that super-prison and free your fellow condui-
>Oh it's a cutscene

>>96788297
the true black hand book has some, rites of blood has two, Dread Names, Red List has two related to trophies and hunters hunted has some but most are not meant for vampires

and the dark age companion and tome of secret have some but that's dav20

>>96790960
Well it was supposed to be a soft reboot but yeah I get what you mean. Even the first game had more style and presentation with the conduit making disease and the bombed out new york look

>>96789797
For me it has to be pretty high. And I mean high, I am talking about going inside cartoons to save Santa from the talons of the Wyrm level high.

Because each splats has a crazy factor beneath their veneer. Some never bothered with it in the first place like WtA, MtAs and CtD

VtM? You had Baba Yaga and the whole Russia shenanigans, Absimiliard-Saulot nuclear chess, Project Werewolf, New York Eldest Flood infestation etc.
WtA? You are a group of furries ranging from techno furries to genocide human furries, fighting the mad embodiment of destruction throughout the worlds.
MtAs? You have cosmic power in your fingertips and you are either fighting the New World Order of Illuminati Man in Black or you work with them. You have battles in Jupiter, enough dakka thrown around to blow up the planet and reality bitch slaps everyone who does it in plain sight.
WtO? You are dead, 50% of getting forged into a cockring or getting enslaved, 50% chance of forever fighting the endless fight against the forces of the End of Everything untill you either Transcend or end forever.
CtD? You are a former ageless godlike being, shackled to a human form as you try to keep the sparks of creativity, imagination and dreaming alive.

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>>96790662
infamous mentioned
god i love 1 & 2
even though conduits are mutants it's a really completely different theme so coactive fit better
>>96790751
>That Vamp DLC was kino
i dont know how it managed to be so memorable to me. i loved the villain and her voice acting almost wish there was a "bad ending" for cole where he didn't escape into the sunlight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpk6qX7EfZw

>>96791171
>Cole going from gruff edgelord school shooter in 1 to generic action man goodish lad in 2 as a result of getting the edgelord shocked out of him by his future self
What an insane and surprisingly kino arc and character design shift. Thankfully the devs reverted the stupid design changes they had in the first trailer with black hair Cole

>>96788924
>Villedrouin
NWO
>Joyce
Syndicate
Any idea where to put Soona? Iteration X or Void Engineers?

>>96791258
Void engineers I would think. 99% sure most of the DE cast could one shot a group of fae

>>96784871
>Are wyldlings like a sub-set of nature spirits
I don't believe so, but I don't know how to describe the difference.

>>96791222
was he a gruff edgelord? he was just a normal guy with not much going on. his relationship with his gf sucked and he worked as a fucking bike courier
even after he got his powers he wasn't really edgy, just kind of an asshat at times

one thing that never clicked with me were the good/evil path intentions, but i feel it may have been due to retcon stuff between game 1 and 2
kessler intended cole to use the ray sphere himself to get powers and defeat the beast, but doing so would be an overwhelmingly evil action which resulted in him siding with/becoming the beast in game 2. or maybe that kind of plot narrative was intentional

>>96791367
The jump between 1 and 2 made it more about the ray sphere into beast thing, so yeah retcon/hammered out better. The evil path was weird and generic.

>>96791367
eh, he was certainly a lot more abrasive and rogue-ish in 1, between the jacket and general actitude. The selfish choices were also a lot more about Him than being ridiculously evil

>>96791271
> 99% sure most of the DE cast could one shot a group of fae
Their only hope would be Inland Empire Harry

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>>96791788
>your lack of imagination shows your degeneracy

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What would be some interesting effects for a vampiric version of a Philosopher Stone.

>>96792079
>pic
That entire character is how you know the game was written by disingenuous leftist scumbags.

>>96792184
How interesting we talking? Cause allowing kindred to reproduce would be thematic and fitting.
If we're talking extremes befitting a great work then some intangible ward being placed over the planet that will, in time, diminish the absolute control daysleep has on kindred while lessening the lethal effects of the sun. Giving a middle finger to god's little tantrum of a curse and all that by allowing kindred to be active during the day if they need to be.
A nice middle ground I suppose would be giving a middle finger to Caine's curse. Messing with generations to make thin-bloods less of an actual thing while strengthening those up to a certain generation. Sure it'd probably be global but Methulsah were pretty up their ass for the most part and SI is getting too big for their britches. Besides actual vampire society tends to be gen 7 and up.

>>96792079
Isn't Measurehead pretty banal himself?

>>96792184
The vampire's own ability to transmute blood into vitae, externalized as a more sophisticated tool to synthesize vitae with any properties imaginable.

>>96792184
The Cursed Stone of the First Murder is known among most of the Camarilla as mere myth, a dark dream that promises salvation but brings only despair.
Mix and match from the following effects:
>the Stone, when heated over a natural flame (no magic allowed), will bleed real human blood. Over one hour of heating, it can produce as much blood as needed to sate any vampire's thirst. The flavor of the blood is incredibly rich and satisfying, but not outright addicting. It is normal, real blood with no catches. Some say it is the blood of Abel himself, and it is God who placed the bizarre curse on the stone. Others suspect it was Caine who did so, out of mourning for his sins. Yet another claims it was Lilith who made it to bleed forever, in order to impress Caine with her endless powers.
>Those who feast solely upon the Stone's blood for more than a month will experience a deeply unnerving phenomenon where they seem to 'evolve' somehow, suspiciously similar to diablerie. The Kindred who feeds on the Cursed Stone will gradually increase Blood Potency and reduce their Generation. This welling power can be immensely addicting, but inevitably draws unwanted attention from others... and should they discover the secret of this rapid growth, there is nothing that they won't do to steal it for themselves.
>Some say the Stone's true blessing is not the blood of Abel that flows from within it, but rather using it in the the most ancient, forbidden rite of Blood Sorcery could turn even the lowest of Tremere apprentices into a living, breathing god amongst Kindred should he discover both the Stone and the secret rituals that invoke it. However, there are tales amongst the sorcerers that one who desecrates the Stone in this manner will soon be visited by its rightful owner in the night... and nothing will remain of them by morning. Not even a drop of blood.

>>96792184
More effects that can be used or ignored as desired:
>It is said that one who holds the Stone can twist light into darkness. This is literal. Like a miracle in defiance of all logic and reason, one who holds the Stone and speaks the secret words of power can create a localized eclipse that blocks all sunlight within a one mile radius around himself. The eclipse follows the Stone, so its holder is truly free of the Sun's tyranny once and for all. There are no known abilities in the World of Darkness that can override this effect, but it requires the user to never let go of the Stone.
>The Stone may in fact be nothing more than a forgery crafted by an ancient Tremere lord, or the reward of a bargain with an Archmage. There are supposedly at least a dozen false Stones somewhere on Earth, produced by various inventors and alchemists, usually buried in forgotten treasure vaults and sealed crypts where elders rest in dreamless torpor. These forgeries cannot bleed genuine human blood nor twist light to darkness, but they can transform animal blood into something as rich and fulfilling as human blood is to Kindred.
>The Stone may, in fact, be the genuine murder weapon that slew Abel. And it is claimed, though by no means ever proven, that the weapon is the only artifact that can kill Caine and unmake the vampiric curse forever. Even more dangerous, some whispers claim the weapon has a will of its own, a divine thirst for vengeance, and one who drinks from its rich supply of ancient blood for long enough to rise to the First Generation will cease to be themselves... and begin to call themselves Abel.

So we all agree to migrate to /vtm/ and /mage/ in a new split?

>>96792516
No? Where'd you get that idea.

>>96792516
Who the fuck is "we"?

>>96792516
No, sorry nobody really took your bait. Come up with a better one next thread.

Please stop giving obvious baiters (You)s, at least make them work for 'em

idk, mage really feels out of place in wod

>>96792592
Good thing they don't exist then. wink.

>>96792592
Old mage? Kind of. New mage? Eh.

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>5 effort posts
>0 (You)s on any of them
>one baitpost
>3 (You)s, 2 anti (You)s

>>96792602
It's easier to argue than to talk. Sad!

>>96791258
Soona would be Iteration X. Trant would be Progenitors. Kim would be Void Engineers.

>>96792324
>the Stone, when heated over a natural flame will bleed real human blood. (...) it can produce as much blood as needed to sate any vampire's thirst.
this is cool but doesn't it contradict the fact that vampires drink blood not because of the mineral substances inside of the blood, but because it is inherently a life force of the creature?
there was discussion from a previous thread about drinking crab blood which is blue and doesn't have haemoglobin, yet it would satiate a vampire all the same (as much as blood would from any other beast)
so this would imply the stone is "alive", and heating it does depelete its "life force" in some way...?

>>96792646
Yeah, in my head when I wrote that it's not actually supposed to be the literal rock that killed Abel, but actually Abel's heart that was ripped out of his dying body and fossilized by age. Abel is still technically alive and if you diablerize his heart long enough you become him. How does any of this make sense? Lilith did it of course, just to prank/destroy Caine

>>96789797
Disbelief can be very subjective. Some people can accept the most grandiose power-wanky shit with ease, but their suspension of disbelief crumbles the minute an antagonist has a plan they think is stupid. Others have a high tolerance for stupidity but can't into big conspiracies going unnoticed.

I can't say I've really codified what destroys my suspension of disbelief, but I know my tolerance for a lot of things seems to be lower than the aggregate. It's not that I can't tolerate grand things existing in the shadows, or characters that aren't always making optimal decisions (if a character always makes an optimal decision, they're not a character). I like things like lost civilizations and grand conspiracies a ton, but I often find the way they're presented in canon to not really work. There's a lot in oWoD, specifically Mage and Werewolf that just loses me at the concept. On a more character level, whenever I look up an official Elder in VtM, there's a good 50% chance I'll leave thinking to myself "there is no way that guy survived to 500, even being 6th gen wouldn't bail them out."

But with the right execution, a lot of impressive things can happen without destroying my suspension of disbelief.

>>96792663
kino

>>96792663
Very nice.

>>96789567
There are multiple games with no Humanity meter or degeneration themes, anon. You've basically just described Vampire and Demon. Others resemble the follies of humanity in other ways.

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>>96792282
>How interesting we talking?
I wanted something that could act as a central plot hook for a Tremere-centered game during the aftermath of a chantry/reliquary being raided by a group of Anarchs backed by a Giovanni. The stone could remove some major limitations from the Path of Blood, like allowing Blood of Potence to affect embraces.

>>96792296
I considered that what I couldn't figure out was a good way to stat something like that when the players got their hands on it, even if I know the stats for magical materials.

>>96792324
>>96792417
This is a pretty dope take on it. I never thought about making it a unique thing, just something any thaumaturge could do with enough practice, like a Talisman.

>>96792853
You could have it be both a unique thing with knock offs, especially with the tremere. They might've studied it under their mage misconceptions and while they don't know the greater kindred significance of the unique, they were able to devise a ritual.
One that allowed the locks to transmute an igneous rock of a peculiar mass, a sufficient quantity of vitae, and (depending on the ritual) the heart of something once living. After the smoke or what have you clears, there could remains a palm sized carnelian-colored gem that is curious warm to the touch. The knock off's utility would likely be in that it could be anachronistic blood sponge from older eras, made travel easier for the warlocks which allowed them to go further than most. Although some recorded instances, in tremere records, indicate odd things.
Perhaps secreted in a forgotten archive, a record makes note of how a suspected diablerist was in possession of a knock off and the mage fooled auspice-empowered aura scrutiny.

>>96792853
>This is a pretty dope take on it. I never thought about making it a unique thing, just something any thaumaturge could do with enough practice, like a Talisman.
You could take the bit I mentioned about the counterfeit Stones and expand on it if you want. Perhaps Tremeres consider it a very high achievement to create a "Cursed Stone of the First Murder" but they're all in on the joke that they're only crafting counterfeits, nothing more. It's likely that they would consider a 'real' one nothing more than myth regardless, and so their Temu versions of the artifact are essentially their own approximations of a 'cursed stone of salvation' to impress each other by showing off.
>One Tremere Lord flashes his "Cursed Stone of Sun's Mercy" and reveals what it can do: by shaving off a little shard of the ruby and consuming it, he becomes immune to the harmful effects of the sun's rays for 10 minutes. Of course it's a limited quantity item so he only busts it out for party tricks really, and the duration is too short to be useful in most situations regardless
>Another might have figured out a way to store crystallized vitae in gemstone form, and his "Cursed Stone of Rejuvenation", when ingested, instantly refills a vampire's vitae stocks and triggers a major regenerative effect. Very hard to reproduce so he mainly just keeps his in a display case in his reliquary
In your game it could very well be the case that there is no 'real' Stone to begin with, it was always just a fairy tale some Elder made up to troll his clan. Perfectly likely to be true. You could then create a bit of intrigue around jealous Tremeres all getting pissed off at the one smug bastard who created a really, REALLY powerful Cursed Stone, like the one that can turn animal blood into human-blood equivalent for nutrition, letting him go full vamp vegetarian, so to speak. Perfect for a game based around this kind of petty feuding and grudges and exploration of high blood sorcery and thaumaturgy

>>96792952
I like this. Interesting way of spinning things

>>96792294
Don't really know much changeling lore but he's basically a racial supremacist and very overall flat without much emoting, so probably?

>>96793181
Sidhe of House Varich

>>96792251
You need better bait, the fish ain't biting. How are we going to feed our family?

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>>96786344 >>96786360
To elaborate a bit, I think that we should do a cursory overview of paranormal / urban fantasy from the last five or so years. While Anne Rice is probably part of the background radiation of vampire stories by now, I'm sure that there are more relevant authors for the current generation.

>>96789742
Only if I get to be dressed as a vampire.

>>96791169
>CtD? You are a former ageless godlike being, shackled to a human form as you try to keep the sparks of creativity, imagination and dreaming alive.
For inspiration, I would suggest watching The Last Unicorn, Hook, and Leprechaun: In the Hood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLP4fge346o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N-a72jEFh0&pp=ygUWSG9vayBpbWFnaW5hdGlvbiBzY2VuZQ%3D%3D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LUBQiuPPn0

>>96792516
Feel free to try. But the Wraiths need some attention somehow...

>>96793473
Also “The Hole in the Ground”.

>>96792294
Does being nofap increase or decrease your banality?

>>96793536
Nofap causes banality to skyrocket and it’s one of the biggest dangers to a changeling.

>>96793536
depends. If it causes you to develop increasingly high libido due to repression, then you're going to be producing Glamour like a motherfucker when you fantasize about hot chicks. If your sex drive just plummets off a cliff due to no fap you're a Banality pit

>>96793536
Increases the chance of a Firchlis happening.

>>96793377
>While Anne Rice is probably part of the background radiation of vampire stories by now, I'm sure that there are more relevant authors for the current generation.
Press X to doubt.

There has been nothing as edgy as Anne Rice since forever.

>>96793700
Does 50 Shades of Gray count since it started as Twilight fanfiction?

>>96793723
50 shades of gray isn't really edgy tho, it's milquetoast bsdm and moderately spicy for wine moms in dead marriages.
Female taste in book reading has killed literature I'm pretty sure

Hey there, so I've been following Alfabusas "Hunter The Parenting" series and I've fallen in love with the world of darkness setting. I've tried researching the lore myself but I have no clue where to start. When I got into warhammer I learned the lore from various podcasts/youtube channels and I was wondering if there was any good options like that for WOD? I'd love to run a game in the setting but I feel like I should at least have a basic understanding of the setting first, and no one else in my gaming group knows WOD lore.

>>96793822
unfortunately the only good way of learning WoD is reading the sourcebooks. There's no extensive network of loretubers and podcasts for WoD newbies.
There is however VtM: Bloodlines which is a pretty decent introduction to Vampire the Masquerade, and does a good job of setting the vibe for the overall gameline.

>>96793822
Every single Old World of Darkness book (oWoD being 90% of what that series draws on) is in our MEGA. The second MEGA has fan content mixed in, so I would recommend you start with the first.

Rather than be spoonfed, you can read every single book you want personally. Pick a splat you like, read its core, and then branch out from there.

>>96793822
>>96793833
2nding here
Play bloodlines to not know jackshit but appreciate the vibes, tone and atmosphere of the setting at large, then read the books for Vampire. I'd consider Vampire to maybe be the most canon WoD lorepiece as everything made after is either living in it's shadow or trying too hard to capture vampire without being vampire

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How stylish are your hunters?

>>96793867
Looks cool, where is this from? I always imagined all non-OC hunters have the sort of trenchcoat detective style going on to hold hidden weapons

>>96793867
If I don’t look like a hobo with a shotgun then I’m not doing it right.

>>96793867
cross between grunge and milsurp
so, tremendously

>>96793822
There are Youtube channels that cover the World of Darkness but they're generally unpopular and don't garner that many views. I think the most popular is Burgerkrieg but even that struggles to get over five digits.
And the worst part about getting your information from Youtubers or another else is that it's usually edutainment, more memes and jokes and fan interpretations than the actual hard lore of the setting. They're going to gush about their favourite stuff and sperg about their least favourite stuff and they're going to flanderise everything that they're not that interested in with surface level wiki-skimming "research." You'll end up as a meme-spouting secondary yelling about how Tremere are the best clan, the Technocracy did nothing wrong and werewolves are responsible for all of the world's ills, with a shallow understanding of the actual setting.
All of the books are in the Mega I link in the OP. Start with the core books of the games that you're interested in. They will give you enough knowledge that you will be able to parse the titles of all the other books connected to that game and decide what you want to read next.

>>96793912
There's burgerkrieg, he's kind of good yeah some of his vids are in 6 digits.There's a dude called William SRD that covers the game and occasionally tabletop wod stuff, he's good too

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>>96793867
Pretty dapper looking

>>96793822
There's a pretty extensive amount of podcasts that'll leave you with a good impression of what each game is about. Usually you'll find them under "x: the Podcast".

>>96792602
by all means, highlight the effort posts. One man's quality discussion is another man's bait.

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>>96780894
What would people rec for a not!Bloodborne campaign? I'm tempted to use ExVsWoD as a baseline and sprucing it up with Dark/Victorian Age stuff, but I've never dived deep enough into splats to be sure of what else I could use as reference for magic/tech level/monsters/madness/curses/mutations/etc.

>>96794427
I'd go for a different TTRPG entirely if you want not!Bloodborne. You're gonna want a lot of satisfying combat for that, and that is not WoD's strong point.

>>96794495
I like my combat, but the campaign focus is overall more on the urban exploration/horror atmosphere/eldritch esoterica aspects.

Truth is this is an already ongoing campaign and I'm actively trying to convert away from the combat-focused system I was using previously because combat was all it was good for. I've parsed through like a dozen dark fantasy systems in the past few weeks, but after narrowing it down the ones that fulfill most of my needs are WoD and a fucking Black Crusade hack.

>>96794427
>>96794518
Cthulhu by Gaslight
https://www.chaosium.com/cthulhu-by-gaslight-pdf-and-ebook/