>>96835673
what was her name again?

File: hq720.jpg (76 KB, 686x386)

76 KB JPG

Non-binary drag provides great inspiration for World of Darkness characters.

>>96835673
>What type of demon is your favorite to play or speculate on?
Are any of the demons in World of Darkness: Inferno playable?

>>96835710
Surely, there's some conversion floating there. Which of the Akathartoi interest ya?

File: hq720.jpg (97 KB, 686x386)

97 KB JPG

Will you defeat them, your demons and all the non-believers, the plans that they have made?
Because one day, I'll leave you a phantom to lead you in the summer to join the black parade.

>>96835748
It seems that possessed mortals are playable.

Wraith the Oblivion Lore: A Tour of the Underworld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SdwAfPV6qg
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTDXW0PEYBq8e0SAo0mTfblBZwxwq6tDN

Not sure why, but with the upcoming "Boy and Door burn Down an O'Tolleys" Audiolog, I kinda want them to team up with some Garou to do it...but only because Door caught a glimpse of the Garou rigging explosives to blow the place up and them doing it so incorrectly offending his Mining Sensiblities.

>>96835673
>TQ
Inferno Demons. No Lucifer Apologia, no Techno-Gnosticism. Just good old fashioned demons.

>>96835685
The Nameless One

File: 1000020020.jpg (83 KB, 612x765)

83 KB JPG

So if you think about it it doesn't make sense for The Eldest or Cappadocius or Assamites to have created the Baali. It was obviously Saulot stretching morality. The Nameless One was just his pseudonym.

Halfway through reading V20's Dust to Dust and it's pretty interesting as a setup to a Chicago chronicle. The whole Lodin storyline with his extended plot is also interesting, plus connections to Al Capone... yeah, this is a fun setup when you extend it to everything else. I can see why this stuff keeps getting reprinted.

I think Caine is probably an alright guy. If you went up to him and offered to play splitscreen coop with him he'd probably do it

>>96836321
>Beat Caine at Mario Kart due to bad RNG
>He frenzies and eats you
Yeah he's a top lad had a pint with him last Tuesday evening.

File: Caine.png (87 KB, 623x328)

87 KB PNG

>>96836321
Caine is probably chill 99% of the time these days but at his core, he is a loser through and through. From Book of Nod to Time of Judgement, it never changed.
>Michael: You literally caused humans to become Sleepers, separated the spirit and material worlds, caused the creation of concepts of Murder, Deceit and Cruelty by killing your own brother with a rock through First Murder. But God is forgiving and you just need to ask for it.
NO
>Next day Raphael: Your brother Abel forgives you for murdering him. God is still going to forgive you if you just ask. Do you accept?
NO
>Next day Uriel: God straight up forgave you, no need to ask for it. I will literally take you to Heaven the moment you give your ok.
NO

I'm new to WOD, specifically VTM having only really played the one video game. I was reading in the last thread about how Ventrue and Lasombra are sort of mirror clans who are very similar. Are there other clans that have a crossover like those two?

>>96835702
These are all easily changeling NPCs. Also I really like the new trend of using makeup to draw comic book-esque features on you face for cosplays. It looks uncanny but cool at the same time.

>>96835954
Boy is 100% going to be confirmed a kinfolk, but not necessarily Garou kinfolk.

>>96836540
Are there any reasons as to why one SHOULDN'T hate Caine?

>>96836758
Toreador and Brujah are too sides of the same coin, with Toreador trying their best to mimic humanity and Brujah actually being close to it. Gangrel and Nosferatu (by the end both are Masquerade breaking monstrosities). Tremere and Tzimisce, the Tzimisce are the rightful lords while the Tremere are usurpers. Malkavian and everyone else.

>>96836758

Not really, the closest are the Ravnos and Gangrel sharing a nomad theme. Everyone else is unique enough not to have overlap that isn't just an extension of being a vampire.

File: chill guy.jpg (55 KB, 1024x639)

55 KB JPG

>>96836823
He didn't charge for taxi fare.

File: Vampire Killer sketch.jpg (122 KB, 1080x1920)

122 KB JPG

HtVanon back to update.

It's been a busy few weeks. One of the players had to drop out and we've picked up another in their place, and another player retired their character. Both PCs will continue to exist as NPCs in the background. One thing I want to do is build up the players paranoia that a skinwalker has replaced one of the PCs, but that will take time to foster. Our new PCs are both members of the Union (a more 1970s UK-flavoured Union. Not racist, just don't like 'em), sent to Basildon as it's made the national news in the wake of several mass murders and an apartment building fire.

It's always rough having a session devoted to getting a new PC over the hump of "why would we trust this person and go monster hunting with them? Because they're a PC", but the Players have expressed interest in hunting down the Vampire Killer, as well as strange lights that several Slashers have seen that compel them to kill specific people. The PCs are suspecting it to be a Will o' the Wisp in the marshes south of town. They've also encountered a pharmacist called Tomasz, who unbeknownst to them has developed an alternate personality that loves poisoning people at the hospital. His regular persona has no idea about this, and just thinks he's under a lot of stress with how many bodies are coming into the hospital nowadays.

As an aside, I've realised that I've been picturing my Vampire Killer (a Ghoul who lost his master and is just drinking blood as his body ages 40 years in a month) wrong. He drains his victims dry, but he's no Vampire so he's just supernaturally bloated with a pot belly, and hemochromatosis. But I realised that the best reference for his physique is the Spitter from Left 4 Dead 2. Lanky, emaciated but pot bellied.

>>96836849
>Both PCs will continue to exist as NPCs in the background. One thing I want to do is build up the players paranoia that a skinwalker has replaced one of the PCs, but that will take time to foster.
Now that's a nice fucking idea, I love it.

>>96837098
It would've been easy to just kill the PCs off, but it'd feel a bti transparent imo. The Skinwalker has been established but is currently missing, and was last encountered stabbing one of the retired PCs with a paring knife. I'm going to be flavouring the NPCs as very much "I hunted, but I need to move on with my life. I want to put all of this, and you behind me" if the PCs seek them out. As the PCs integrity lowers and they become more paranoid, they'll surely start to wonder "How *can* they just put this behind them?" And then they'll be reminded of that skinwalker that can imitate a person. And maybe then the former PCs insistence of "no leave me alone" might not ring as true anymore.

>>96836085
But, but Saulot was muh good boy who dindu nuffin wrong

Every time I have a shitty night at work I just want to go absolutely ape shit. Just straight up Quake engine multikill instagib subwoofer-exploded-from-the-heavy-bass-in-my-mind-space I am a threat to society come and lock me up but get ready for me to unleash the beast and I don’t mean me simply unzipping my jeans

>>96835673
Who is this, actually?

>>96837329
I understand you, woofbro. What I do in cases like this is come to 4chan, put music all high and boost a videogame or a movie filled with action and violence while shooting shit on 4chan

>>96837489
Mostly the same. My computer got fucked because Asus Pentex is trying to get me to do alcohol again but I know what they’re putting in beer now and don’t even get me started on vodka that shit has antifreeze and it’s getting harder to remain stable without a depressant because Uncle Ted’s voice gets louder without something to dull my vision while riding the bus and seeing all the fucking pollution hovering around the city, not to mention the trash on the streets, and I don’t mean the whores

File: immagine[1].png (1.6 MB, 707x919)

1.6 MB PNG

> Boo-hoo, my grognards friends only want to stick to VtM and WWtA and HtR and they don't even want to try Abuse: the PTSD with me.

Although they pose a honest question I didn't really know how to respond except with vibes (I dunno, I'm a sucker for fey fuckery), which is: what's the core drive of the game? Are we supposed to roleplay hiding from eldritch horrors who want to snatch us back while we try to lay low and keep our job at Walmarts or get our accounting degree?

I'm sure that's a better way to put it, but I admit that it's somewhat more abstract and "for its own's sake" (meaning, sure you can play pretend daily minutia but other systems have a much more direct beeline towards what "you're supposed to do" or a clearer grasp of what the backbone of a game will be) than stuff like V or WW or H.

Sure not as abstract as some OTHER stuff, but still.

>>96837674
What a fucking piece of shit cover.

>>96837554
Sounds like you could use some meds to calm down, I hear Megadon might have something for you.

>>96837693
Hahahaha give me your home address now

>>96837685
Wholeheartedly agree, especially the already barely visible green-or-green moth being just as unclearly skewered by a thorn in what's possibly the laziest photosop layer work ever.

Still, I love fae shit and I would really love to get my head around how a realistic CtL game would be expected to go.

>>96837674
It seems to me most games ignore the central pretense and just fuck around as the weird goblins they now are. The system tries to beat you over the head with the theme but you can ignore it and just run the courts as the vague vibes they're also presented as.

>>96837554
Alcohol and drugs are a temporal and barely functional solution. The best way is looking for a hobby or bigger goal and dedicating your time to it. In my case I enjoy drawing and collecting edgy shit. But it could be anything because the voices in the head won't go away just drinking booze

>>96837716
>>96837674
It'd probably depend on the local court and maybe how long it's been since your players escaped. They should have examples like the child contract thing or the court problems in miami

>>96837554
Also ASUS is kinda shit. people hype these computers up but they're not that good. MSI is another computer brand from Taiwan that is way, way better than ASUS since your computer won't randomly die for some retarded shit. or at least it will last you longer. because it seems like ASUS just getting fucked is not that uncommon

>>96837774
>It seems to me most games ignore the central pretense and just fuck around as the weird goblins they now are. The system tries to beat you over the head with the theme but you can ignore it and just run the courts as the vague vibes they're also presented as.

I'm perfectly fine with the theme, in theory. I'm not sure how that would realistically translate into an actual game, tho. Except for maybe really short ones in which you don't have enough time to get bored of the core concept of laying low and being always scared that fae gonna rape ya.

>>96837229
I run them like that unironically.

>>96837800
My ASUS motherboard shorted out after 6 months. I’m switching back to Acer because even if it is demon technology Acer at least works for years.

>>96837781
My hobby is being a substitute DM/GM/ST and using Teamspeak to guide, narrate, and officiate games for random strangers. Hence the need for a laptop. It lets me flex my voice acting, creative writing, and improvisation chops.

>>96837715
As much as I love meeting new people I really can't. Got too much work as of late, we've got a big collab project coming up.

>>96837674
>what's the core drive of the game
Dealing with the issue of your own Keeper.
Working collectively with other changelings to help each other deal with each other's Keepers, in the formats of motleys and freeholds.
Figuring out what the best way of dealing with Keepers is, which is represented by the court system. Ignore them, fight them, bargain with them, hide from them, and other possibilities.
Dealing with other changelings who choose other ways of dealing with the Keeper problem. This can involve rivalries between courts, or dealing with freebooter, loyalists, militia or bridgeburners.
Reclaiming your lost humanity, one way or another. This may involve dealing with your fetch to recall your old identity or it may involve forging a new identity entirely and trying to lead a new life.
Exploring your fey nature, which typically involves indulging in the Hedge and all of the goblin nonsense going on there. It's not easy for changelings to let go of all of the wonders of Arcadia.
Maintaining a balance between the reclamation of humanity and exploration of fey wonders. Going too far in either direction is generally a bad idea and comes with consequences.
>>96837811
>Except for maybe really short ones in which you don't have enough time to get bored of the core concept of laying low and being always scared that fae gonna rape ya.
That's a rather hardcore winter court approach to the Gentry issue, that's far from the only way of handling your Keeper.

Is it morally wrong to hunt magical diddle victims?

>>96837229
Saulot has three Eyes.
The Salubri
The Tremere
The Baali

>>96837871
and the salubri also have 3 bloodlines.. is saulot just a autist who is really into number 3?

also can't believe that it took till v20 for someone to introduce a 3rd saulot personality

>>96836841
LaCroix was paying it

>>96835225
AI animation is getting better, lol

>>96837953
>Give sleepers AI
>They make reality deviant porn
I think we made w mistake

File: Spoiler Image (1.47 MB, 1000x1300)

1.47 MB PNG

>>96837871
The Tremere belong to a different master.

File: 1761349524831548.mp4 (861 KB, 704x1280)

861 KB MP4

>>96837953
Yes

>>96837953
>And he shifts into Crinos, let me just open chatgpt...

>>96837835
>That's a rather hardcore winter court approach to the Gentry issue, that's far from the only way of handling your Keeper.

Ok, I got that Winter is the "Fear is king. Hide in terror" faction, but I still don't see how that wouldn't be the default mode for every changeling. They can't do shit against the Fae except evade or loophole them. So that means throwing Keepers at them like saturday morning cartoons (which kinda sorta deflates them, you don't casually deal with Antedeluvians in VtM), otherwise it's either the PCs fucking up their normality on purpose and get somebody's attention, or what's essentially a beaten-housewife-laying-low simulation.

For example
> Dealing with the issue of your own Keeper.
> Working collectively [...]
> Figuring out [...]
> Dealing with other changelings [...]

These all revolve around a Keeper so, as I said above, it seems like there must always be some Red Hand of Stillness (also called The One Who Walks at Greens, a fae keeper who's bizzarely obsessed by traffic lights), fucking shit up for the whole gang, otherwise what is everybody supposed to be doing except unwarranted changeling infighting. But having a Keeper always there that kinda defeats the point of the fae being an eldritch looming threat.

> Reclaiming your lost humanity [...]
> Exploring your fey nature [...]
> Maintaining a balance [...]

All these seems to require MASSIVE player buy-in, like "Ok, I'm done at the yoga class, I'm feeling energized so I'll go cavort in the Hedge lol who cares if I get spotted teehee I'm magical also the plot must happen somehow". And while it surely is interesting as a concept, I wonder how likely is it even for the average WoD group.

I mean, Hunters are shit out of luck too, but at least their mission to go die horribly trying to kill monsters is a much direct core loop to grasp.

I'm not trying to be an asshole contrarian, I just want to get an idea of a functional CtL chronicle so I can unleash it on my friends.

>>96837996
Implying he doesn't just stays in crinos everywhere except when dealing with humans (which he avoids doing)

>>96836811
Changeling: the Dreaming is so queer-coded. Do cis hets even play it?

>>96838030
Storytellers not prompting Rage rolls at the drop of a hat are betraying the system.

>>96838033
>Changeling: the Dreaming is so queer-coded.
There's a joke here I could make about child molestation... I don't really feel like making it, though.

>>96838057
Miss me with that W5 shit

>>96838057
You know the animal rage rolls only come from cars or moving onto tile from carpet or wood. They're safe for the most part

Besides Mages, are the True Fae stats comparable to fighting a playable splat group?
Like can a band of WtF Werewolves take one down outside (or inside) the Hedge/Arcadia with appropriate gifts?

>>96838124
>inside the hedge
Lel
>outside
Maybe but then you'd just run into the normal Gentry problem where they just lose a title and now their vindictive. You'd probably have to send that fucker to the shadow realm or cause a firestorm

>>96838033
CtD, DtF and MtR are all basically in NPC-only jail.
Changelings are too fragile for the rest of the world of darkness.
Fallen are too dull
Mummies are alright actually, but whole games with multiple mummies lose their flair really quickly. There's not enough inter-mummy conflict. Mummies are like the Garou if they didn't have a rage problem...which makes them too perfect to have as player characters. Now if there were mummies working for different patrons with different webs of life, THAT would be interesting. Necromancy is a global concept after all...but they region locked it to Egypt and the middle east because of mummification.

>>96835759
Has anybody ever managed to play this?

Every player having two characters and they all do PvP against each other across the table if not even against your own other PC seems like an impossible task even for the most unhinged of storyshitters.

>>96838008
>I still don't see how that wouldn't be the default mode for every changeling
Maybe for loners who don't have the protection of their motley, court and freehold.
>They can't do shit against the Fae except evade or loophole them
Maybe in the first edition, but there's a lot more that can be done about the Gentry in the second edition.
>So that means throwing Keepers at them like saturday morning cartoons
Keepers don't need to solve every problem personally. Loyalists exist, huntsmen exist and there's a lot of problems that Keepers can throw at their changelings before they come to handle them personally.
>otherwise it's either the PCs fucking up their normality on purpose and get somebody's attention, or what's essentially a beaten-housewife-laying-low simulation.
There's a middle ground, with Keepers becoming aware of changelings when the Storyteller feels like it fits the narrative and when changelings grab their attention either due to unintentional fuck-ups or intentionally, as a part of a narrative.
>But having a Keeper always there that kinda defeats the point of the fae being an eldritch looming threat.
The Keeper is an eldritch looming threat, but a changeling's Keeper is such an important part of its life that its relationship with its Keeper is going to influence a lot of its decisions. The Keeper doesn't have to be an active presence in the story for a changeling to realise that joining a motley, court and freehold is smart and to try and stop other courts and antagonistic changeling factions from fucking things up for them.
>All these seems to require MASSIVE player buy-in
Without grounding themselves and living among humans, a changeling is going to struggle with retaining Clarity and risks losing their mind. By ignoring the Hedge and refusing to harness their fey side, a changeling is going to be effectively useless to their motley, court and freehold and they're going to be easy pickings for their Keeper.

>>96838008
Having said all of >>96838166:
>I'm not trying to be an asshole contrarian, I just want to get an idea of a functional CtL chronicle so I can unleash it on my friends.
What are your favourite aspects of Changeling the Lost?

File: IMG_3568.png (3.44 MB, 1200x1564)

3.44 MB PNG

Total Kindred Death. The ”lost” creeds wayward and hermit are the best ones.

>>96838092

>You're an unstoppable engine of destruction whose incapability of keeping their inner rage at bay has historically fucked any chance of working together with their peers to accomplish their literal reason to exist, but hey of course using a mechanic for that is an agency-depriving no-no so feel free to be an unstoppable engine of destruction whenever you feel like and be the bestest of boys boop the snoot at any other time.

My first character was a Rage 10 Ahroun, because I had no idea of how the system worked so I listened to the table telling me (probably because they were used to the forgiving attitude of the ST towards Rage rolls) to spend all freebies on that.
And honestly I was a bit disappointed when I found out that I was indeed supposed by the crunch to fly off the handle because somebody looked at me funny. Sure I slapped some bitch around (none of which had to roll Rage either of course) when the pack was having disagreements, but "I hit you ONCE to get my point across and/or because you're not honoring hierarchy" is a much different thing that "OH SHIT HULK SMASH HOLD HIM HOLD HIM DOWN FOR GAIA'S SAKE".

If you don't play every garou (except one SPECIFICALLY built against that) as on the constant verge of roid rage you're doing it wrong: oh, cool, you can kill anything and have no other problem whatsoever, la di da.

>>96837990
This isn't a proper animation of a cat shooting a gun.

>>96835710
possessed mortals in the same books are playable and they give you options what the chronicle might look like

the demons also pretty much use the same sin system as owod devil's due so you can probably cook up something with the demon translation guide

>>96838177
>What are your favourite aspects of Changeling the Lost?

As I said, I'm a sucker for fae shit. I guess stuff like drawing from folk tales, the whole contract shenanigans as a source of power, or the (maybe a bit meta-narrative and up-its-own-ass, but I like it) idea of playing a being that's somewhat "narrative" in nature (to the point of the Gentry being what they are because they have told themselves into their current state of being).
I also like the idea of playing somebody who's forced onto their back-foot because they are much weaked of whatever they're up against and by whome they have already been abused and broken, and I'm intrigued by the idea of coming up with a way to cope with that (which I guess is one of the core themes of CtL).

The problem, tho, is not be playing, is convincing somebody else to. Because when you look at the other systems:

> WWtA: you're proactively aggressive and dealing with shit by taking it apart is your reason of being
> VtM: you're way above the human cattle, and you only appease your superiors out of self-interest while trying to undermine or topple them
> HtR: you're weaker than what you're up against, but the entire point is that you have a suicide mission and you'll die trying

While CtL seems stuck in a place where none of that entirely applies: you are not strong enough to go on the offensive like a werewolf would, even considering disagreements it makes no sense to scheme against the organized changeling community because otherwise the fae will eat you all, and you are not on a suicide mission that will keep your game loop going because the entire point is that you escaped with your life and you won't go back.

So, while I personally would bend backwards in favor of activelly pursuing the "vibe" of the game (as I understood it), I still feel like any narrative impetus is way too player-dependent to be welcomed by groups used to the game giving them much clearer "concept" of what they're supposed to be doing.

>>96838331
I don't think bro was on the trigger. This some SIG moment, not even his fault.

>>96837903
You're reminding me of when I was pitching Babylon 5 to my friends.

"The Minbari are obsessed with the number three. To the point that it causes major societal problems for them."

>>96837951
Caine making LaCroix pay for the Neonate's taxi fair is not a mark against Caine.

>>96838459
>I still feel like any narrative impetus is way too player-dependent to be welcomed by groups used to the game giving them much clearer "concept" of what they're supposed to be doing.

This reads like Martian to me. "Oh no, I, the player, am not forced into a single type of goal or plotline. Whatever shall I do without the game telling me what I'm supposed to do?!" I love games that just turn me loose on an interesting world or let the person running the game come up with the plot rather than limiting them by the game's very conceit.

I'm also going to be a pedant and say
>VtM: you're way above the human cattle, and you only appease your superiors out of self-interest while trying to undermine or topple them

Isn't really accurate and one of the things I love about VTM is it isn't a game that has a notion of "what you should be doing". Your description is fine for a low humanity Camarilla vampire, or an atypically shrewd Sabbat vampire, but it's hardly the game's "concept". It's atypical, but not difficult at all to play VTM with a politically unambitious character. I would know, because last time I actually got to play VTM, my character was the only one interested in climbing the power ladder by the end. Not everyone is materially incentivized to undermine or topple their superiors either. Ventrue lose out a ton if they go against their own, they have immense incentive to topple other vampires. Tremere are similar except there's no carrot to go with the stick, it's just two sticks. The Followers of Set mostly believe in that crazy shit. etc. VTM, like CTL, has too many ways you can play it for a pithy statement to summarize what the game "does", and that's why it's great.

>>96836540
That's how you know Caine's sheet was written in-universe.

bloodlines 2 made me miss lacroix he would curse like a pissbaby about how everyone is useless but he would give me the job to kill everyone of these anarch and sabbat fucks and then pay me at least (and make sure his agent isn't living in a meth lab)

the fact that he is a antagonist at the end also makes him more respectable than what's her name even and him being above his head is more interesting than the vtmb2 version of it because he is proactive about what he is trying to do

>>96838269
Eh, I feel like the "woofs are supposed to murder everyone around them if someone within earshot sneezes" is overplayed, especially in regards to how it influenced the Garou Nation's choices in the past. I think stuff like the impergium and the war of rage were more of a consequence of "you can solve any problems with enough rip and tear" mindset their culture encourages (which does esteem in part from their Luna-given Rage) and the tribes that know this is retarded are actively ostracized

That being said, I do agree with you in that a 5+ rage garou (especially if they're a cliath or a cub fresh out of his first change) should get locked in murder mode more easily

>>96838459
If I have to come up with a short and simple way of describing CtL's shtick, it would be:
>CtL: Something vastly superior to you has done terrible things to you and if it finds you again, it will do far worse. You must decide for yourself what the best solution to this problem is, and what 'solutions' would only make the problem worse.
As for your other points:
>you are not strong enough to go on the offensive like a werewolf would
The primary goal of the Summer Court is to amass enough strength to directly challenge the Gentry and the minions in combat. For a Summer Lost, going on the offensive is the idealistic endgame. Not marching into Arcadia, that's suicide, but directly challenging and fighting their Keeper in a fairer battleground.
>even considering disagreements it makes no sense to scheme against the organized changeling community because otherwise the fae will eat you all
Some of the Lost might fear that changelings of other courts are not just going down a self-destructive path, but that they're endangering the rest of the freehold too. Summer courtiers might try to conscript the other courts to fight for them when their king is threatened, Spring courtiers might have their festivals disrupted because other courts consider them an unproductive waste of time, Winter courtiers might intentionally destroy a powerful artefact that could be used against the Gentry out of the fear that it would earn the freehold the wrath of the True Fae if it was used, and so on.
The fact that the Gentry aren't united is also important. Keepers typically operate independently and cooperation between them is something to be terrified about. So, not all of the Keepers are going to descend at once if a freehold is in turmoil.

>>96838550
>This reads like Martian to me. [...]
Me too, my man, but I harshly came to discover that's the baseline to be kept in mind at all times. If anybody, or everybody, exceeds it, that's great. But expecting it to be like that by default is a recipe for disappointment and disaster for all but the rarest of groups.
Of course the goal can be vague, but more often than not one (and a pretty strong one) is needed to even start the game. It's the same for every system, honestly: in D&D you know you're supposed to go adventuring, to kill stuff and take their shit, so even if left to your own devices you're going to at least check the questboard at the inn. As much as I love the game concept, I feel like that backbone clear goal is left kinda vague in Changeling.

> I'm also going to be a pedant and say [...]
Eh. I mean, some might not want to climb the power ladder, but the power ladder is there and it is an actively antagonistic aspect of the core gameplay. You can choose opt out, but sure as shit it will never fully ignore you and you will have to work with or around it. So, for good or for bad, the scheming is always a game-forwarding part of a VtM game.
With Changeling, at least at face value, not so much. Courts are not a predatory institution, but a community of survivors with a common enemy that have no interest in undermining the protection granted by the Court. Sure, that one time it might happen that factions might be particularly at odds with each other, or that a loyalist plot is afoot and the Court itself is in danger, but for it to being the durable plot point of a long-spanning chronicle (that is not supposed to end with the resolution of that specific plotline) is unlikely and possibly unfun. So, politics and scheming is out as a core game loop.

And you can apply this "Sure, it can happen as a plot point, but it doesn't really enforce a clear concept of the game by itself" thing to everything else I mentioned.

>>96837953
Technocracy tricks to consensus woofs into pets

>>96836540
There's a real chance that Caine broke Creation by adding murder, and the universe would already be reset or abandoned like many before, if it wasn't still being maintained to torment Caine in particular. He may be holding down the whole WoD by being the sulkiest bitch.

>>96836849
Refresh my memory but the Vampire Killer is a Mask, right? Meaning he doesn't need to eat, drink or rest. Might not even age anymore, really. HOWEVER, he still feels the pangs of hunger for vitae and is wracked by the agony of a deprived ghoul's accelerated aging, even if he's not aging anymore. Psycho-somatic kind of dealio, in other words.

Here's an idea: What if he developed a sort of sixth sense for traces of vitae and has a predilection for people who've been fed on before or that have tasted vitae before? That would make him an even worse Masquerade risk than he already is with his reckless killing sprees, as he could zero in on any fellow ghouls or even vampires to drain them of vitae. The local Kindred would be racing to put him down and cover it up, especially now that it's spiraled into the public sphere, and that would put them on a collision course with the PCs because They Know Too Much.

This is nothing more than a bunch of spitballing, but let me know if it's useful and inspirational.

>>96838723
Addendum: Easy way to up the stakes, even after the attack on the train? Have him attack someone's ghoul, the more important the vampire the more heat will the PCs attract for being on the case. Reveal someone as a ghoul when the Vampire Killer focuses on them to the exclusion of everyone else. Have him crash the party when the PCs are ambushing a vampire or coterie and turn the situation into a chaotic three-way skirmish.

>>96838614
>I think stuff like the impergium and the war of rage were more of a consequence of "you can solve any problems with enough rip and tear" mindset their culture encourages (which does esteem in part from their Luna-given Rage) and the tribes that know this is retarded are actively ostracized

That's my entire point.
Sure, you're supposed to be the "odd pack out" that will go against the culture and maybe manage to pull existence to safety, but you're still part of that culture and the culture itself is a function of an unrelenting biological impulse which is completely unfit to achieve your ultimate goal of saving the world. Because you were supposed to just be a soldier and never supposed to actually manage or plan shit, but you are a dipshit and killed every other Fera who was built exactly for doing that so know you're way out of your depths no matter how hard you can disembowel anything that crosses your path.

Sure, as a PC you can succeed against all odds and against your own nature, but that nature should be an active part of active game because that's the actual conflict you're facing (tearing shit apart is not a conflict, you know how to do it and you're going to do it, very easily). The "tragedy" of it all if you want.

Skipping Rage rolls would be like playing a Vampire without thirst or Frenzy because "nuh-uh, I don't want to do it!". Who gives a shit that you don't want, that's literally what you are, sooner or later you will inevitably do it so you better find a way to grapple with this fundamental shortcoming of your existence.

>>96838751
Fixing the formatting, sorry.
>Have him attack someone's ghoul, the more important the vampire the more heat will the PCs attract for being on the case.
>Reveal someone as a ghoul when the Vampire Killer focuses on them to the exclusion of everyone else.
>Have him crash the party when the PCs are ambushing a vampire or coterie and turn the situation into a chaotic three-way skirmish.

>>96838593
Same, always liked him back in Bloodlines 1, he had some great dialogue. From what I've seen of 2 most of the npcs are terrible to the point where I'm not seeing much of a downside to the everyone dies ending, well that and how embracing a SI leader is insane.

>>96838593
Same.
Like, LaCroix was 100% sent to LA to fail and he still did admirable job before Jacks BS.
Lou become the Peince when she was a Fledgeling and fucked things up so much.

>>96836540
Sounds based. If you're being railroaded and don't like it, ruin the game.

>In short, the world is fundamentally driven more by darkness than light. Wounds spread through the Shadow, crime rates rise, wars become worse and use more devastating weapons. An inexorable spiral into negativity is a difficult argument to refute.
How do you respond to the Bale Hounds without sounding mad?

>>96838758
For the record, I'm not saying that rage checks should not be a thing, just that a lot of people seem to imply that every mild annoyance like when someone bumps into a woof on the street should trigger one and that's what I think it's silly (in a bad way)

>>96838878
Don't include them

>>96838911
Not what I meant

>>96836540
Why schizos love this oversimplification so much? Is not the first time I see that shitposting here but now it seems to be taken as a serious argument. I hate so much when actual lore is taken and retards run endless with their bullshit. This shit argument almost reeks of some schizophrenic evangelical christian type.

>>96838882
Well, sure, but being constantly on the edge of a crashout is the entire point of a garou.

A dude bumping into you would not even be registered for a Rage roll because it is absolutely inconsequential.

The dude comes back to argue, he gets a FUCK OFF, still no rage rolls.

The dude insists and makes it physical? He's a feeble sack of meat and bones, maybe roll something to see if you manage to walk away or deflect or make the dude back off (which, with a high Rage, should not be a problem because you basically exude FUCK AROUND AND FIND OUT energy).

You fuck up bad and don't succeed on that buffer roll? Well yeah roll for Rage.

Of course as a ST you can regulate the likelihood of such incidents, but for a players it should be something that you're constantly at risk of unleashing even if you don't intend to.

>>96838878
Let them think you didn't hear so they keep repeating it and coming closer.

>>96838878
Rape them.

is it just me or are the french like really into CofD

>>96838941
Bro, if you are going to defend somebody, at least choose a better guy than fucking Caine. The only one worse to defend would be Lilith, let that sink in.

>>96838723
He is a Mask yeah. He doesn't necessarily age anymore, but his sudden aging is what helped his descent into the Slasher-life. There currently aren't any Kindred whatsoever in the city because it's overrun with Amaranthine Cats, which is also maddening for the Killer because he can *almost* sense something familiar, but he can't catch the damn cats. If he survives a few more sessions, Kindred from London will send a few exploratory scouts out and then I'll definitely be using something similar to your idea (an Ordo Dracul scout will eventually show up and try to catch as many cats as they can to tease out their delicious diablerist knowledge).

>>96838967
some books are only translated now, so they're talking about it

>>96838991
I'm not as much defending Caine as being annoyed at your little shit meme understanding zoomer sperg of the lore. You know that "Caine" is modelled after Biblical Caín, right? And

"HAHA BRO XD WHY ADAM AND EVE JUST DIDN'T APOLOGIZE AND SAVE HUMANITY?" Is 12 years old remark?

>>96838991
All Caine did was murder his bro and refuse to apologise after, which is reasonable as how the fuck would he know killing is bad nobody ever did it before. Like every splat commits 5 murders a night and doesn't apologise for it

>>96837674
>thinking on how to do another take on fae shenanigans
>veers into being Hunter meets Alice In Wonderland with normal humans ending up either stuck in or intentionally braving alien worlds after stumbling across rifts and gateways

>>96839095
>All Caine did was murder his bro and refuse to apologize after, which is reasonable as how the fuck would he know killing is bad nobody ever did it before.

God gave him like three more chances to repent after he shacked up with Lilith. More importantly, it's very easy to figure out killing is bad in-post if you have two brain cells to rub together. Your brother isn't around anymore, and he's never coming back. Your mother and father are heartbroken. Most children realize that death sucks when their first pet dies, and can realistically extrapolate that if death is bad, intentionally killing someone is extra bad.

He had four chances to say sorry, and every time he flipped God and his dead brother the bird.

>>96839174
You ever get a parent to try and admit they made a mistake? It's damn near impossible

>>96839119
>Hardcore hunter finds a way to interpret everything as evil
Kino?

File: Book of Nod.png (494 KB, 1547x791)

494 KB PNG

>>96839072
Anon, what are you talking about. Anon is talking about what Book of Nod says.

Hi it's me Caine just here to let you know that I did nothing wrong and ergo I will never apologise thanks for reading have a nice night

>>96839264
>hey daddy the entire sabbat wants to know your location

>>96839264
Give embrace, please.

>>96839264
You son of a bitch, you belong in hell for ruining the entier universe.

>>96839264
I will drink you

If Caine Ghoul'd someone would they be any better than a regular Ghoul? Maybe even more powerful than some of the lower generations?

>>96839602
If you take Jabal seriously instead of apocrypha, they maybe be third gen

>>96839602
caine had a ghoul
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Jabal
he was considered equal to the antes

>>96839602
they'd just be a normal Ghoul. Caine would have full control over what he 'makes' of somebody, all the Disciplines that lesser vampires need to study and develop are second nature to someone like Caine who learned them essentially as offshoot Mage sorcery from Lilith, the first Mage. The only reason a Ghoul made by Caine would turn out to be special is if he chooses for them to be special. Otherwise he can just turn you into a basic thrall.

>>96837990
Holy shit is that real

>>96839602
Considering his own ghoul is considered equal to Antediluvians, yep.
Plus dude has Caine's blood running around in his system. That stuff is the McGuffin of McGuffins in WoD.

>>96839695
Yeah it's my Ceilican girlfriend visiting my mom

>>96839616
>>96839618
>>96839751
I completely forgot Caine already had a ghoul

>>96839264
>Lilith meltdown in 3... 2... 1...

>>96837990
>Bridgeburner vs Gentry

if caine IS around, what's stopping him from siring more childer?

>>96839842
depression and trauma like from what we read about him he really liked enoch and co and blames himself for what happens nearly as much as the 3rd gens

>>96839842
Something something Fisherking something guilt something. We can never really be sure

How can I have sex with Caine?

>>96839842
He did so once and it turned into a complete disaster after a few centuries. It's much more interesting to him to just wander and watch what these thinblooded descendants do.

>>96839887
You don't

>>96839887
lilith go away

>>96839887
It's not that hard anon, he's depressed and lonely.

>>96839887
You couldn’t handle his dick. And even if you could, God hates when he gets laid, and will rip the soul out of your body.

>>96839887
Fuck yourself sevenfold to create equivalent consequences for the event, then force the universe to refresh and assume it really happened, then you can roll the universe back to that earlier state that will have been retroactively generated.

>>96839229
>hunter trying to come up with radical and increasingly nonsensical explanations why the benign creatures of whimsy are actually threats to humanity

>>96840146
A Hunter game styled after postal could be pretty good

>>96840146
Easy, Inquisitor with high True Faith

Does God actually exist in WoD?

>>96840198
>Those that refuse to allow themselves to feel anything in the face of innocent whimsy are equal and yet opposite to those who fall completely to fae madness. By their rigid adherence to personal dogma and code and by their stratification and codification of matters where they are totally inflexible, they find themselves being drawn deeper and deeper into their own failure. Rather than being tempted by excess or pageantry, they are dragged toward hypocrisy and unforgivable acts drawn to solidify them in their ways. And with each failure, they harden, until they are simply another stone knight mindlessly enacting inflexible order.

>>96840281
Yeah, he fucks with Caine on the regular. Depends what book you're reading though

>>96838033
Cissies are at the whims of the Mists. That's why Changeling never gets talked about...

File: maxresdefault[1].jpg (56 KB, 1280x720)

56 KB JPG

>Old Clan Tzimisce working with Anarchs to wipe out an invading Sabbat group
>relatively young, an actually ok person
So what's the general opinion on vampires that aren't psychopaths these days, ok or cringe? I feel playing vampires that are monsters on the inside is refreshing to other, more heroic RPGs at first, but with time when everyone starts to play a psychopath killer going against the grain with a genuinely good person that struggles with his humanity and the Beast, particularly when they're from a really infamous clan, makes a more interesting story.

>>96840479
Cringe. D&D is around the corner.

>>96840479
It's fine, fun even, when the facade becomes a little too obvious. But it's refreshing when done right. Too many people forget that there's more benefit to blending in and being a chameleon than there is standing out. Lord knows kindred have their own art and entertainment history but it's all very eclectic the most time. So like kindred have to do something besides plotting and surviving every night and that's where blending in and being a faceless person comes in handy.

>>96840479
It's fine.
Things do get retarded when you want to play a flawless character.

>>96840479
PCs not being shameless psychopaths is to be expected since you're playing a relatively young vampire and generally trying to retain your humanity. I think most setting vampires should just be psychos and untrustworthy. Even Nines wasn't really all there and Beckett was pretty much only in it for the intellectual curiosity, both of which are considered to be the nicer vampires in Bloodlines

>>96840281
OWoD? yes, 100%. Even the most pagan-oriented splat, Werewolf, agrees he most certainly exists in some capacity, though they usually put the Triat above him in their beliefs
NWoD? Hah no, it's about as explicit as it can get about that although there's some oddness with Longinus turning into a vampire by drinking Jesus's blood

>>96840479
i was about to ask which old clan tzimisce? but they all can be reasonably anti sabbat enough to work with outsiders against them

>>96840512
>Even Nines wasn't really all there
Nines was a mary sue.

>>96838151
>but whole games with multiple mummies lose their flair really quickly.
The main reason my GM cited as to why he didn't want to run it was that there were only six power sets. So with a big group all playing mummies, our characters would grow more and more similar.

>>96840610
He was a lot less of a psychopath than other vampires but he wasn't entirely a good guy either

>not even 25% of all players have played the level they used as showcase
vtmb2 is so dead on arrival isn't it?

>>96838033
I'm actually in a CtD chronicle right now. That being said, it's ST'd by the gay guy of our group.

>>96840281
In oWoD, God is God, but no one's heard from him in ages, even the angels.
In nWoD, God is an evil machine and nobody know what the fuck it's doing, including the robot angels it built.

CtD question, I remember there being a specific term for fae who remained in the mortal realm since the Sundering, but didn't choose the Changeling Way. They often took control of hidden Freeholds and were a danger to all who entered their realms. Remembered them being in the Antagonist section but guess I was wrong.

>>96840727
Lost Ones or True fae later mostly by nobles
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Ones

>>96840727
You're thinking of Lost Ones. They locked themselves inside those Freeholds, went insane from Bedlam, and basically have a Mage Marauder-like situation where they have all the Cantrip limiters off within the specific bounds of their territory but can't leave it ever due to the Banality outside.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Ones

>>96840727
Sluagh?

File: oath_circle.jpg (112 KB, 768x502)

112 KB JPG

>>96840740
>>96840741
That's exactly it, thanks friends.

>>96840528
>NWoD? Hah no, it's about as explicit as it can get about that although there's some oddness with Longinus turning into a vampire by drinking Jesus's blood
There is a scenario where the abrahamic god is just chilling in a city controlled by the Lancea

>changelings being discussed
>on Banality: The website

>>96840632
Give me an itemized list of all the bad or at least questionable things he does in the story. No, getting framed for killing Grout doesn't count.

How many spheres/dots would a spell/rote/wonder need to get a specific type of information from people?

Something like a bootleg Sense the Sin from Daimonion, for example, which is not full mind reading but can get significantly secret stuff.

>>96840901
Some anons used to be changelings themselves. A long time ago.
Sadly, they forgot.

>>96840901
What are you talking about man? We gotta get back to work, boss wants those quarterly financial reports by the end of the day.

>>96840479
Why not a middle point?
Even Tzimisce have their codes of hospitality and such.

What compromises has your vampire needed to concede to their Beast and to the realities of life in the World of Darkness? What values have they refused to give up on? What are they trying to hold on to, but struggling to?

>>96840677
>it's ST'd by the gay guy of our group
That accounts for him, what's wrong with the rest of the group?

>>96840912
>patronizes you
>still a vampire at the end of the day
>clearly a bogus ideology since he starts malding when you call him out
>consorts with communists
He's no Saint that's for sure, but I'll admit he's still one of the more moral Vampires in Bloodlines

>>96840940
Surprisingly, the only other stickout in our group is a woman who fell for the asexuality meme (she's married to a mutual friend of ours who isn't in the game but cameo'd as an NPC once or twice by ST's request), so she and gay tend to ramble about things like holo taco nail polish during pregame. The other members of the group are me and two other straight men - hell, one's an old Warhammer grognard-type.

What's the cutoff point where a given vampire goes from being afraid of werewolves to the other way around? 5th gen?

>>96840944
So, nothing.

>>96840992
7th dot disciplines is what garou supposedly can't counter at all if you go with the revised crossover rules so 6th gen although if there is no rank 6 around than 7th gens with 6th dot disciplines have the same effect

still not a good idea to go and mess with garou packs alone till you are a methuselah and at that point the vampire in question is very likely too paranoid to look for fights anyway

>>96840992
>he thinks it's a matter of raw power
Very low IQ.

>>96841060
He thinks gen is a DBZ power level instead of a power modifier and ceiling. Of course he's low IQ.

>>96841068
>He thinks gen is a DBZ power level
It is. Go dominate a lower gen.

>>96841069
Gee, how did the Third Gen merk the Second if anyone with more raw power is automatically unbeatable?

File: 107408076_p0.jpg (1.06 MB, 1290x1806)

1.06 MB JPG

>>96838366
>the demon translation guide
nta, but oh my lord lucifer dtf with (potentially) less jank? why has nobody told me about it?

>>96841074
>automatically unbeatable
You're arguing with your imagination. Rejoin us here in the real world.

>>96840992
Never. Leeches always live in fear of Gaia's warriors.