Spotlight Series Edition>Banshttps://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/banned-and-restricted-june-30-2025>NewsThe 2025 MagicCon and Pro Tour Schedule:https://www.magic.gg/news/the-2025-magiccon-and-pro-tour-schedule>Metagame Mentor: The Winners and Losers from Standard's 2025 Rotationhttps://www.magic.gg/news/metagame-mentor-the-winners-and-losers-from-standards-2025-rotation>Spoilershttp://www.magicspoiler.com/https://mythicspoiler.com/CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES>Current meta, complete with deck listshttps://www.mtgtop8.com/https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/>Build and share casual deckshttps://deckstats.net/https://tappedout.net/CUBE RESOURCES>Build and share Cubeshttps://cubecobra.com/landingCARD RESOURCES>Search engineshttps://scryfall.com/https://mtg.wtf/>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://www.makeplayingcards.com/https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>Play online for freehttps://untap.in/https://dr4ft.info/>What is EDH?https://vocaroo.com/1ihc21gJLBh1>The Slop is for the Pigs. Pigs eat Slop.https://x.com/RealPokemoki/status/1972817965847617963>WotC's War Crimeshttps://pastebin.com/JRYDiAjq (OLD)https://pastebin.com/nEcKGAys (NEW)>Previously>>96833192>TQHow much would someone have to pay you to play Standard?
>TQDepends, how much does a good standard deck cost? The format is definitely not healthy enough to warrant the high investment
>Fall of Thran in sideboardAgainst what decks?
ECOSYSTEM CHECK!
>>96841729I would assume it's to fight lotus field and the scapeshift deck but that's already a pretty unorthodox list to begin with
Magic has never done better
so ojutai wasnt lying when he said people could reincarnate as dragons?>The Great Wheel. Clan members believe that souls are reincarnated in a cycle known as the Great Wheel. Ojutai teaches that the least among dragons is wiser and more powerful than the greatest of humans, just as the least among humanoids is wiser and more powerful than the greatest of mice. Thus, the goal of each soul on the Great Wheel is to attain the highest possible form of existence by being reborn as a dragon.>This belief suggests that the souls of dragons were once the souls of humanoids, but former lives in general—and those of dragons in particular—aren't considered a topic for polite conversation. It's borderline blasphemous to speculate that a particular dragon might be the reincarnation of a particular humanoid. Nonetheless, after the death of a widely respected monk, many Ojutai followers quietly look for signs of his or her reincarnation in subsequent draconic storms.>The dragonlord Ojutai is considered to exist outside the Great Wheel. Dogma states that the dragonlord was born in the first storm, already perfect and eternal, ready to impart his wisdom to lesser beings.https://web.archive.org/web/20200831011139/https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/planeswalkers-guide-dragons-tarkir-part-1-2015-03-11Or is this a case of design teams not communicating
>>96841767They just think it's reincarnation, it could be something else. They'd have to actually die first, for starters.
>>96841767nah, I think he was lying and the card is just a representation of that idea rather than a confirmation
>>96841696>tqas good as I'd get anywhere, so at least $25/hr plus expenses
>>96841767>dies>reincarnate as a dumb crab
>>96841914why the fuck wasn't mkm on Capenna yes I'm mad
>>96841767damn they used to write some cool fucking lore for this game man
>>96841788Would you want to talk about your past life if you became a dragon?
Is it a contradiction if I think Marvel superhero characters are extremely juvenile, but I am totally okay with Pokemon?
>>96841696I've worked on this cube for quite a while now, and I want to know what y'all think. I also have a few cards on the maybeboard I am thinking about. Also, what is your P1P1? Mine is path to exile.https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/f07924e8-225d-4cb6-ab41-e37059d96785
>>96842037Depends on which Pokemon era and which capeshit you're talking about. Modern Pokemon has been sloppafied to the point where Game Freak is getting spooked by asset flip indie games. If it didn't have its own established TCG in the west it'd be as easy a candidate for UB as Ninja Turtles.
>>96842037No, you're right
>>96841696>How much would someone have to pay you to play Standard?$500 per diem plus a scaling fee for organized play events>$15 Regular REL>$150 Comp REL>$1500 Pro REL
>>96841696>Post-Spiderman spotlight series>The only Spiderman cards leading decks are Doc Ock pretending to be Spiderman and Jackal>The only EOE cards seeing major play are Frenzied Baloth, Ouroboroid and Cosmogrand (also the planets if you count that)Wow, standard sure looks... fixed.>TQJust give me fun cards that are actually fun to play, please. I was hoping the Eumidians would allow for a cool insect deck to develop, but standard still isn't for anything outside aggro and 3-4 mana bombs that run away with the game.
>>96842173WotC (and to another extent, Hasbro) and Nintendo left each other on some very bad blood over how the Pokemon TCG was handled by WotC.
>>96841917>dies>reincarnate as a smart crab
RELEASE MY WIFE
>>96842263>>The only EOE cards seeing major play are Frenzied Baloth, Ouroboroid and Cosmogrand (also the planets if you count that)Riddler, Star Chart, Nova Hellkite. but it's not a ton. fun fact, Rizzler was briefly the second most expensive card on modo after Black Lotus (don't think that's primarily because of its Standard playability though) just how many cards can you expect to make it through when Standard has over 3,400 legal cards? over 1202 rares and mythics?
>>96842404Be patient, my little porkchop.
Purist lost
{2/M}{M} feels like some unexplored design space
>>96840335>>96839935>>96839917>>96839904>>96839639>>96839601>>96839482It is funny how DEI polices are as retarded as 80s catholic hate mobs
>>96842938>It is funny how DEI polices are as retarded as 80s catholic hate mobsReminder that the entire Satanic Panic was fabricated to discredit the accusers in the McMartin Preschool controversy.But also yes, the amount of damage that these modern hate mobs have done to MTG is incalculable.
>>96841696>TQNot enough. The format is a living hell and what’s worse I’m sure they pretend to ban just Vivi/Cauldron and call it a day while they let cards like pic related, Manifold or FOMO keep ruining Standard.Literally years of mountain dominance.
>>96841737Nebraska IS booming.
>>96841696>TQif you buy me a non-proxy vintage deck (preferably MWI) I would play standard given you also gave me a deck to play
>>96843428>Reminder that the entire Satanic Panic was fabricated to discredit the accusers in the McMartin Preschool controversy.Quoi? I thought it predated the McMartin case by three years with the publishing of some book or other?
>"The most favourite world typically only has a share of like, between 10% and 14%. It's like only the most favorite plane for like 1/7th of magic players. And so that extra set that's set on that world is serving at most 1/7th of the Magic audience and we want every set to be for everybody.">MTG product architect Max McCall, in regards to return-to sets.I have to take a moment to remind everyone just how unfathomably stupid the people who work at WotC are. Like, 15 IQ knuckle-dragging retard stupid. Hollowhead Sliver equipped with Mind Carver stupid.For someone to look at market research and conclude,A) In a product with dozens of options, one option representing a 7th of consumer favorites means that thing has LOW representation.B) That gathering data about only 1st favorites somehow means 2nd, 3rd etc. favorites simply do not exist.Is a level of total, unfettered incompetence that disproves the existence of God. No just deity would allow stupidity of this level to exist within their creation.This is the quality of person that works at WotC. Someone too stupid to understand that 1/7th is greater than 1/24th, and that people can have 2nd and 3rd favorite things.
>>96841696> Izzet Cauldron> 31.4%Nice """format""" you 60 card clowns have here
>>96843653It only started being massively pushed in mainstream media during the case.
>>96843659I mean this is the company that gathers data in a way solely to fit their personal narrative.>Did you buy Spider-Man?>Did you watch any influencers?>Did they make your opinion of the set negative?>Which influencers did this, and why?They don't ask you why influencers IMPROVED your opinion of the set, only id they made it worse. It's very corpo data gathering where you intentionally select the questions to fit a predetermined narrative. This even happens in PhD studies because it turns out p-hacking a radical claim is more likely to get funding than a study stating the obvious.
>>96843675So, it wasn't fabricated, it was just taken advantage of by an opportunistic mainstream media?
>>96843688Why are you attempting to run cover for these people?
>Reality Fracture is going to be themed entirely around Jace and Loot.It's fucking doomed.
>>96843694Why are you deflecting? Revisionism is a pain in the ass because some people lap it up thinking that they've learned some truth the rest of the world doesn't know. Keeping history straight is genuinely important.
>>96843706
>>96841696>31%I'm gonna throw up
>>96843729The. Format. Is. Flourishing.
>>96843729"The fact that the top two decks comprise less than 50% of the meta is evidence of the meta's diversity and good health."
>>96843729Consider is the first contact with Magic for many people outside of the Cummander crew. Then you can start to fathom the deep of this company incompetence…
>>96843717I'm just jumping in on this retardation, why are there always so many people noe trying to run interference for their favorite politicized group on the internet? Let me guess, you're a twitter protestant?
>>96843742>noeIt's always been like this, the internet only exacerbated it since every village idiot can meet up and congregate regardless of where they are.
>>96841696I'm trying to re-make a edict/hand disruption deck that I made back in 2017, but in current standard. It feels like the tools are there but in practice, I'm having trouble getting any traction before my opponents creatures snowball out of control. It's like 1 for 1 removal means nothing now.
>>96841729Did this win something? Outcaster greenblade and abrupt decay are both insane in pioneer right now.
>>96843860>Holiday Pioneer 20:00 - 2025/10/19>3-0Small Japanese tournament. 6 players total
>>96841935Because Capenna got a very lukewarm reception at the time, so they thought relocating the murder mystery set to a more popular plane would be a safer bet. Getting soft on Capenna nowadays is probably a sign of just how fucking bad things have gotten in Magic.
>>96843946>One deck doesn't have red
>>96843946>"We didn't want to make any changes because there's an upcoming event">Deck ends up taking 11 spots in the top 16When will they learn that this mindset just results in even bigger embarrassment than forcing some people to find a new deck?
>>96843946>simic aggro
>>96841696Standard is unsalvageable at this point. Vivi is the boogieman, but there are so fucking many t4 combo decks lurking under the surface like Temur Battlecrier and Kona Omni, on top of the obviously busted shit like Kaito/Curiosity and Screaming Nemesis, that you're never going to save the format with bans. Even if you hit all of these somehow, the format would likely degenerate into gay Jeskai Rev mirrors.
>>96843946This is what a healthy format looks like!!Cheers and don’t forget to buy those ATLA packs, fellow Magic enjoyers!!!
>>96843701Now, if it was 250~ odd cards depicting Jace and Vraska fucking in every position, on every plane, with various other characters sitting in the cuck chair, THEN we’d have a good set.But wizards is too cowardly to give the people what they want.
>>96843789Black is just a terrible color to be playing control with right now. All your removal is conditional and sucks—Cut Down, Go for the Throat, and Sheoldred's Edict rotated, and you have zero good sweepers that cost less than 5 mana. Paying 3 mana for all creatures to get -2/-2 is a joke when every one and two drop comes showered in +1/+1 counters. You don't have have enough life gain to ever beat RDW, and even Blot Out rotated so you have no good answers to Kaito/Curiosity. White's removal is comically better.
>>96843946Like I fucking said last time, and the time before that:A deck "only" being half the meta isn't the worst part of it. Everyone wants to play their pet deck and bring jank to a tournament. What matters is not the overall field of shitbrews, what matters is how any given deck edges out other lists as time goes on.Izzet Cauldron is simply a perfect example of this. 30% of the field going into day 1 turns into 80% of the top 16, because the deck is too consistent, too robust, and easily able to win games even when fully disrupted.
>>96844064>When will they learn that this mindset just results in even bigger embarrassment than forcing some people to find a new deck?When it actually becomes their mindset, maybe.That is not the actual thoughts of these people. That is a lie they are telling as an excuse not to ban anything, because the corporate knob polishers who have to keep Squeenix (And other UB partners at large) happy simply will not let them ban a card from FIN.
>>96844504They don't have to ban Vivi though, they can just ban cauldron. Even if another broken Vivi deck were to pop up it would at least take a while until the meta solidified itself again.
>>96844504Honestly I don’t even know if Squeenix would care if a FF was banned from one format for being too powerful, but the important thing is is that it’s clear WotC thinks they will.
>>96844519>They don't have to ban Vivi though, they can just ban cauldron.Anon, UR Proft's is still BY FAR the best deck in the format, without Vivi+Cauldron.
>>96844526It would still be a good deck but I have doubts whether or not it would still be the best. But if they truly don't want to touch Vivi they could just ban those two cards instead.
>>96844519This anon could be hired by WotC! Congratulations retard-kun!!!
>>96844542They've said Vivi is almost certainly getting banned in November, so.
You'll never go here again! Not when JotC can just find yet another ip that takes place in NYC!Now, enjoy your UB pig slop!!
>>96844816I get the ub hate but why are we now pretending that new capenna was even close to a good setting?
>>96844810>They've said Vivi is almost certainly getting banned in November, so.Okay so if you know it needs a ban why didn't you ban it already?
>>96845141The setting/atmosphere was good, but the le animal crime families maybe not the best storyjust have a better story next time
>>96844816just because ub is bad doesnt mean capenna was good
>>96845141I personally enjoy art deco so there was some nice art. They also had a chance to have their bagel and shmear and eat it too.
>>96845151Vivi is like a $600+ deck so they let people free roll FNMs for a couple months as recompense
>>96844816Let's not get nostalgic here, New Capenna was the Thunder Junction of its time, complete with the setting being fundamentally screwed up because they got squeamish about committing to the theme (i.e. fucking up the cops and robbers set by replacing the cop faction with yet another gang because it was 2022). It's just that things have gotten so bad that the worst cringe of 3 years ago is preferable to the nightmares of today.
>>96845164Remember when shortly after announcing those alt arts in different language they announced they would stop translating cards in half of them?
>>96843946Remember almost 2 months ago when they said no action would be taken until november?
>>96845141>>96845166That’s where you are wrong. Anything and i mean ANYTHING is better than this. I would take another MKM, another DFT, hell even another OTJ over this.
>>96845434The format hasn't reached its final form yet.
capena was a garbage hat set the fact the bar has been lowered further doesn't make it good
>>96845434>monitoring the format>ATLA around the corner>players are showing other rogue decks can be succesful >is still only 31% of the meta>red aggro is keeping it in checkChoose your favorite.
>>96843659There is an even more obvious criticism to this brain damaged statement: a new plane is the favorite of 0% of the players when they start work on it, negating everything this corporate jobber said.Furthermore since War of the Spark they have made 27 mainline sets (plus Aftermath) and 18 of those were on planes we were already familiar with (including Forgotten Realms, New York City, and Final Fantasy as returns since we all know those places).18/27 = 2/3 = 66%Max McCall says it's a bad idea to return to planes which is why they do it two thirds of the time. pic related
>>96845476>There is an even more obvious criticism to this brain damaged statement: a new plane is the favorite of 0% of the players when they start work on it, negating everything this corporate jobber said.Good catch man.>Max McCall says it's a bad idea to return to planes which is why they do it two thirds of the time. pic relatedThe stupidity is like an onion. It has lairs.
>>96845475Obviously this means the anti-Vivi tech must be in the Avatar set. They sell us diseases so we buy their poison to dull the pain for a week.
>>96845141Capenna could have been decent if they didn't fucking pussy out on the mob factions. Like Brokers were going to be the police and law faction and corrupt. Which should check out, since why bother being a discrete, underground crime family if there isn't the law out to get you? But greed is everywhere so in the end those cops start serving themselves and get in on it as well. But muh ACAB means we can't have any kind of police in our trading card game so they were changed to basic bitch racketeering.Still could have been ass though, the Not-Guns were pretty lame.
Which recent sets have the best value pull rates?Probably FF right ?
>>96845660Who cares. The game sucks ass.
>>96841696>The only white is 1.8% of the meta and it’s BLUEwhite aggro POWERFUL WHITECARDSKek. Lmao, lol, chuckle, guffaw, snicker, hahaha
>>96845697>POWERFUL>WHITE>CARDSTRULY, SOLAIRE HAS BLESSED NEBRASKA
Hey Gavin, how’s that “White Flash” saving white for ya? Are the powerful white flash cards beating that Cauldron deck? Or mono red Nemesis?Is this the best the lead designer of Magic can do?
>>96845750>Hey Gavin, how’s that “White Flash” saving white for ya? Are the powerful white flash cards beating that Cauldron deck? Or mono red Nemesis?I, for one, am glad that we can completely ruin the color pie for the sake of accomplishing absolutely fucking nothign.
>>96845761That’s why they called it “FIRE” design. It was inherently made by mountainfags
>>96845784>Bizarro world WotCWhy yes, I do think it's time for WHEAT design!
They should do a UB that’s just another adaptation of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and have the Bonus Sheet just be reprints of Portal: Three Kingdoms cards.
>>96843659You don't get it man, Vanilla and Chocolate are only the favorite ice cream flavors of like 10% to 15% of customers. Rather than making more Vanilla and Chocolate, we want to appeal to EVERYBODY, which is why instead of Return to Vanilla Bean or Chocolate Remastered, we're making FLAVORS BEYOND:BLACK LICORICE a core standard set followed by FLAVORS BEYOND: RUM RAISIN!At this point I'm morbidly curious if these hasbro/wotc employees genuinely believe this shit or they know it's bullshit themselves and are just saying it for plausible deniability
>>96845965koei tecmo ub soon
hey anons, what playmat do you use? I'm looking to buy one but don't know where to start. anybody have any recs for companies that make them? or companies to avoid?
>>96846156ive been using an fftcg playmat that i got for free at an event for like 7 years now
>>96846026strong analogy anon>I'm morbidly curious if these hasbro/wotc employees genuinely believe this shitwe're in the emperor's new clothes phase of magic. you have to signal your belief in the unbelievable to even get a chance at hasbro
>>96846047we wuz chinese warlords n shiet
>>96841696>TQSee picrel.
>>96846509>One million dollars!Man as cringe as those movies were, that still is one of the funniest scenes ever filmed.
>>96841696why are the deck names so boring
>>96846538Because the game is shit and nobody cares.All the creative players are gone. All the players who care about the culture of the game are gone. All that's left are paypiggies and ""tournament grinders'""
>>96845434F L O U R I S H I N G
>>96846538>>96846569No it's because some 8 years ago, when decks had funny names, wotc woke campaign was in full cruise and they castrated any kind of player's creativity due to it potentially being offensive.
>>96846538stuff like oops, fish, deadguy ale and cephalid breakfast was confusing to new players or something so now its all just colour + archetype
Every time I open a pack of OM1 on Arena I feel like I'm being pranked
>>96846741The only silver lining of UB I've seen so far is that it shows Wizards is even more incompetent than I used to think. >sort out a deal to sell spiderman cards>forget to check if you're able to put them in your online client>have to rush out like 200 alt artworks of extremely niche spider hero cards
>>96846741Why? I actually enjoyed a lot of the TOM designs I would kill for versions of those cards in actual tournaments instead of have to see stuff like pic related that makes me wanna puke.
>>96846776In a way it was interesting to watch artists bend backwards to try and fit in all the retarded typlines in the art.
>>96846741that face looks shopped in, just a bit
They unironically need to nerf creatures for a whileLike turn three goldfish kills in Standard shouldn't happenEither that or all removal needs to be Swords to Plowshares tier
>>96847120>They unironically need to nerf creatures for a whileWe hear you, your feedback is valuable.Anyways, in the next set we'll be power creeping Screaming Nemesis!
>longer standard>six sets an yearIt's going to be like this forever. Even if they had a competent team there is absolutely no chance they can actually create a balanced environment with that many sets coming out and staying in the format for so long."Revitalizing Standard" has if anything killed it for good.
Reminder: Izzet Cauldron is about to lose a 500 player tournament to Leyline RDWPress F in chat to pay respects
>>96847125"We've listened to your feedback about Screaming Nemesis, and come up with what we think is a great solution. The new Silent Nemesis will make the controlling player and all permanents they control immune to noncombat damage for the rest of the game, cleanly removing the threat posed by Screaming Nemesis."
>>96847248And he just won with a 16 damage swing on T4, on a 0/1 Toy.... lol, lmao even.The format is still evolving!
>>96847293Come on you have to admit that was pretty sick.
>>96847120>They unironically need to nerf creatures for a whileyes pleasetake me back to 2017 powerlevel
>>96847394Maybe two of those seen any play.
>>96847394I think Vona is among the best designed cards of all time, is a kino character and Ixalan at large was one of MTG's peaks.
>>96847412I always thought it was like a midrange control card, but it was played only in aggro.
>>96847505It's just a cool card that's generically good without being valuable for every list.
>You will see MTG x BLACKED.com universe beyond in your lifetime
Who are you quoting?
>>96847567>black: bnwo>white: snowbunnies>green: the herb, the paper>blue: crips>red: bloods>land: the hood>artifacts: beeping fire alarmsI'd play it honestly
>>96847567If you had posted that with zero context I would have had no idea that that streamer does blacked porn and if you recognized her from that then that's on you.
>>96847583Kino, I will now buy your UB slop.
>>96847583>I play BLM protester>it comes into play with riot and menace
>>96847617You know very well that if they made a BLM protester card it would have defender and vigilance.
>>96847617
>>96845151Because they wanna keep non-emergency bans (emergency bans basically being something like Saheeli/Felidar Guardian, unintentional things that genuinely break the gameplay, not just power concerns) on a regular timeframe so people can be prepared for them.
>>96847661>so people can be prepared for them.That's a weird way of spelling>so they can guzzle corporate semen in the back room as a (Not free, paid for with "Hasbro Good Piggie Employee Points") reward for not disrupting quarterly earnings reports with unexpected bans.
>>96847685I genuinely don't think bans hurt their sales as much as people think they do. They primarily affect secondary market prices and that might have a knock-on effect of the boxes being sold or whatever, but SO many people don't fucking play competitively.
>>96847699>I genuinely don't think bans hurt their sales as much as people think they do.It does not matter how much they actually hurt sales.It does not matter how much people think they hurt sales.What matters is that Hasbro corporate assumes they might hurt sales.
shitbrewing for fnm again sideboard TBD but probably just mystical dispute consign surgical flare of denial/pact of negation
>Run draft as a newbie>Get told to tell people to discard lands>Get yelled at by pro that this set doesn't have basic lands only full art and foil>Smack back with the last card drafted every time is just going to be a land>He tells everyone to ignore me>Get a little upset>Search some Google>I'm wrong. Dead wrong.>Give guy a promo and thank him for coming and learn if a set has only full art or foil lands to keep them in draft.I think I'm gonna just kill myself.
Do not kill yourself, it is a sin unto Lord.
>>96847806i would never betray my liege like that...
>>96847845I, too, saw that video
>Standard is unplayable without mountains>Still two more weeks of that due to lazyness and profits>The new bullshit with Firebend is guranteed>The lack of good answers in the format is guaranteed>The future seems another bullshit deck above 20% of metaHow this make you feel Stroontard bros?
>>96847948>The new bullshit with Firebend is guranteedlollmao
>>96847661>(emergency bans basically being something like Saheeli/Felidar Guardian, unintentional things that genuinely break the gameplay, not just power concerns)Copy cat would not get banned in the current Standard. It's almost unfathomable what they could possibly print nowadays that would ever warrant an emergency ban. It would have to be a comically egregious oversight, some sort of cheap one card combo because they forgot it could target itself or some such.
imagine if this was printed today
>>96848103>Nevinyrral's DiscoSnarg's House of Sin is better.
>>96848103Modern version: Men's night (it's a gay bar)
Dune standard is coming /mtg/. What do you think the best deck will be?Ornithopters matterGrixis BijazPrincess Irulan prison deckRed aggro
>>96848103Who was that red haired girl I forgot
>>96848148
>>96848148She is Phage the Untouchable.
>>96848159Looks very “touchable” in the other card.
>>96847699The mass exodus to commander occured at the same time as there was a deluge of bans in Standard. WotC thinks this is the fault of the bans and not the fact they hired absolute retards to design miserable standard environments.
If you happen to be in Auckland and are interested in playing Premodern, we have an event running next month. Come playSunday November 23rd noon at Shuffle n Cut$15 Entry, 100% of entry fee to store credit prize, as well as format staples and proxy promos - pic relatedFull proxy allowed and loaner decks available
standard is shit, they straight up killed pioneer and modern is the same mh constructed garbage as always… what should i play in this game to have… fun?
>>96848225I think that's the joke.
>>96848240>what should i play in this game to have… fun?Nothing.Leave and never return.
>>96848246This is the doomer mentality, new ways to engage with magic keep popping up
>>96848240modern is kinda hit or miss i wouldnt really want to play it at a tournament level but people still brew and play off meta at my lgs so i have fundraft is still usually fun as well though spiderman was pretty meh and avatar isnt looking much better so maybe wait for lorwyn on that
>>96848254>This is the doomer mentalityAnon.I don't know how to tell you this, but.The game is doomed.
>>96848240Cube, premodern or legacy, but the latter only if you're playing in paper with other likeminded people rather than the MTGO addicts who think they're playing a competitive game.
>>96848240>>96848254the only way left is to make up bullshit kitchen table formats with friends. it can be a form of constructed or a hyper niche cube, but nothing like the mtgo vintage cube. you should keep a brisk turnover too with making up new ones. you have to be creative and willing to learn game design to get anything out magic anymore.
>>96846538buckbroken by thugs n' bugs
manlands
I just want to know who looked at Kaito and decided he needed to have surveil 2 stapled on to his draw.
>>96848340I get how you can boil down most mechanics to "jump through an additional hoop to get an additional effect" or "ability that changes the equation on attacking/blocking", but what about stuff like cycling or flashback? Dredge?
>>96847394Strong creatures are fine (as long as strong removal exists alongside them).
Efficient Removal2InstantThis spell costs (1) less if it targets a creature with mana value 0 or 1.This spell can't be countered.~ deals 4 damage to target creature or planeswalker. It loses indestructible until end of turn. If it would leave the field, exiles it instead.Until end of turn, if a creature you don't control leaving the field triggers an ability, counter it. If the ability is uncounterable, you draw a card instead.
>>96848103I mean, I’m pretty sure the rules for that card mean that crossdressing at least somewhat is allowed. Just pull up the hem of your g-string thong to prove it.
>>96848103>>96848672Nevermind, they fucked it up:Spells cast by players wearing at least one item of women’s clothing cost {1} less to cast. (You can define women’s clothing as you see fit. Be reasonable.)Fuck that shit. I wanna see some lame sweaty nerd putting on a bra just to get a benefit in a children’s card game, not cringe like that.
>>96848523>This spell costs (1) less if it targets a creature with mana value 0 or 1.Okay but they seriously need to print more cards like this.
>>96848700no, they need to stop printing low cmc cards that require a quick answercheap creatures should be beaten by sweepers
>>96847248>>96847293>let’s just ban the entire format I’m sure nothing bad will happen!
Apparently hopeless nightmare is a problem but this shit is totally fine
>>96848861This picture would not be improved if you added Esper Pixie to it.
>JOTC thought banning some red cards would stop the other red cardsJOTC designers and Gavin confirmed to be colorblind when looking at how weak White has been
>>96848103Can Maro get cancelled over this the way some people tried to do with Ghazban Ogress a few weeks ago? Dredging up buried jokes noone has thought about in decades.
wanna know what really schrams my scheddle? i hate when people use guild names for color pairs for no reasonoh it's an izzet deck? does it have a single fucking card that has anything to do with izzet or even ravnica at all? oh it doesn't? that's just UR motherfucker
>>96846741>can't do proper horror because consoomers feel icky>does a whole set on GIANT realistic spidersI have only a mild arachnophobia and these cards make my skin crawlwhy is wotc so fucking inconsistent with their logic
>>96848387Those are all kicker with extra steps.
>>96849020Yeh I remember being so confused when I first started. Like what the fuck is a "dmir midrange deck" when I just want to play some sort of Bx deck but kept seeing all these whack names I new nothing about at that point
>>96841696>TQThere are people who still play Standard?!?
>>96848861>finals wasnt izzit cauldron mirrorguess they wont ban anything
>>96849020Almost like they're nicknames or something.
>>96848286You have pauper which is great right now though
>>96849491>pauper>great
>>96849496Yeah. Why aren't you enjoying it anon?
>>96849498It's literally just Modern Horizons tribal, anon.
>>96849503It's quite literally not, though. The deck where MH3 cards matter the most is Jund and it's just Refurb and Chrysa. Refurb is annoying but Chrysalis is fine since it allowed green to be playable for the first time in several years.You should try playing the game rather than just parroting stuff anon
>>96849512Stop lying to yourself. The entire format pivots around MH cards and the ability of other cards to interact with them.
>>96849520You're delusional and just spouting bullshit bro.
What's up, new to mtg. I got one of those tutorial/beginners boxes with the purple with and white lion guy on it. Never really done cards game before, besides when I was an early teen with a all black deck, and it was kinda fun.
>>96849536>new to mtgdon't
It's kinda fucked that reds whole identity turned into 60 cards. Like that's the identity, it's the colour you're meant to play in standard and modern.
>>96849512> Chrysalis is fine since it allowed green to be playable for the first time in several yearsNah mate fuck big chris. Nyxborn Hydra and Malevolent Rumble are much healthier green MH3 cards.
>>9684955960 card is the spinoff format of magic now. Magic is balanced and designed with 4 person 40 starting life
>>96849536>new to mtgGet a load of this fucking idiot lmao.
>>96849609I honestly don't think Chrys is unhealthy and that whole period of "let's splash green for chris!!!" was massive mass hysteria
>>96849536>What's up, new to mtg. I got one of those tutorial/beginners boxes with the purple with and white lion guy on it. Never really done cards game before, besides when I was an early teen with a all black deck, and it was kinda fun.The best advice you will ever receive:Scold yourself for getting suckered into buying an MTG product. Pawn off the cards you did get. Find another game.
>>96849536It's barely even red's identity. Impulse draw and card selection should not even be red's view through a telescope.
>>96849390Amazing if true
>>96847699anon if you think they're not in on the secondary market you might be the most gullible man in the thread
>>96849390More evidence that you're out of touch in this hugbox.
>>96849512everything on that list except the mono blue ones run cards from MH sets idk what you are on about anon
>>96844359>White's removal is comically better.It's so strange seeing black removal still formatted like it needs stops and balances, and then white gets 1 - 2 mana instead speed exile or a 3 mana enchantment that exiles any nonland permanent, and has flash if your opponent draws a card after their upkeep.
>>96847120They won't. In their eyes any kind of disruption-heavy environment is unfun
>>96847774>>Get told to tell people to discard landsWhat retard told you that?
>>96849858The discussion was whether they ran the meta, not that they saw play or not.Are the red lists defined by the sneaky snacker when no one dreamt of running that shit before bans + grab the prize being released? Is affinity defined by refurbished familiar when the archetype's been around since forever? Blacksack by the accursed marauders that are just removal? Mono white is MH3 tribal because they run some thraben charms between main and side?The only deck where that could sorta be true is Jund as I've explained
>>96849625>>96849611>>96849550Is it really that bad? In what way? It's just for casual play between the wife and some friends that I know started to play as well. I tried the Arena app but its so clunky and I prefer the physical medium anyway.
>>96850081some aspect of the game are fine. Just don't give wotc any money and print your own cards.
If I come offer one random improvement to Magic. I wish the Magic Arena client had a better soundtrack. I typically mute Arena, because the Soundtrack is really boring. I wish MTG Arena was similar to Yugioh Masterduel in terms of OST. Playing Standard format on Arena would be a lot more tolerable if there was a bangin' butt-rock song with guitar solos playing.
>>96850081>Is it really that bad? No, it's worse by orders of magnitude.>In what way?The greediest company in all of tabletop gaming, staffed entirely by manipulative narcissists. Constant gaslighting of players for the purpose of selling more product, at the expense of the game.>It's just for casual play between the wife and some friends that I know started to play as well. I tried the Arena app but its so clunky and I prefer the physical medium anyway.Not relevant. You should NOT support Wizards of the Coast. The apple is still rotten to the core, even if you only cut off the "good bits" to eat.
>>96850095I mute Arena because the entire sound design is obnoxious. It's not just the music. The voices, the. explosions, everything is irritating.
>>96850004nice ignoring of the degenerate bridges, fag. mh isn't just mh3
>>96850093>>96850113Thanks for the advice, so print myself or if not, buy second hand to not fuel bad business practices.
>>96850136>Thanks for the advice, so print myself or if not, buy second hand to not fuel bad business practices.Ask an LGS if they have any old product that isn't selling. Tell them you just want it for casual play with your family. You might get some boxes of Dragon's Maze or something thrown at you for cheap, most stores would be happy to clear them out.
>>96850114Fuck off. Play MTGO if you don't care for graphics and flair.
>>96841696I'm trying to drum up support for a UW standard. Yes, I know, this doesn't solve every problem with pushed FIRE design cards, rushed sets, race-dwapping etc but it's a step in the only direction possible to stop the final great enshittification of magic. I need ideas on how to go about making this format more popular. So far it's pretty simple: follows the exact same rules, sets, rotations and bans as standard, but excludes cards from outside IPs, or from sets created for outside IPs. This last clause is in case wotc really does go full giga-slop mode and makes in-universe crossovers.
>>96847774Similar thing happened the first time I drafted IRL where a buddy told me that art cards were pickable and therefore must be passed. Thankfully an experienced player to my left warned me early into the draft to not do that. Afterwards I confronted the guy who told me that but he's high 24/7 and had no recollection of even talking to me.
>>96850357stay on tiktok retard
>>96844519>found the vivi "investor"
>>96850081Just find some boardgame instead. Plenty of them to choose from whether you like the drafting or the gameplay aspect, and they're designed to be fun instead of cashgrab
>>96849536Our data shows that you are from Nebraska.
>>96850417Not an argument.
Any Nebraska bros itt?I just bought six cases of Spiderman and was just heading out to the corn fields to play Flip'n'Rip! Come join me!
I loved that one time where someone messaged Maro with a polite and valid criticism about the state of Magic and he responded with an unnecessarily snarky/rude/condescending comment that amounts to "the game is fine, you fucking retard, because we are making tons of money".
>>96850550Shekel line must go up
>>96850550My favorite was when someone asked Mark what he considers to reasons a set is considered a success, and he replied with only one word.>"Sales."
Well yeah
>>96850615That's just transparency
>>96849610>Magic is balanced and designed with 4 person 40 starting lifecommander is a psyop to normalize islamic harems as the USD becomes worthless
>>96847583that is literally magic the gathering already dumbfuck, sweet baby is run by interracial porn producers
>>96850773>Spike for a couple months because of Final Fantasy and then returns to normal numbers And people claim UB players aren't tourists
Why are the /pol/tards having another meltie today?
>>96850357>post talks about sound design>"you don't care for graphics"even speed readers aren't this stupid.
>>96850821No you don't understand this is a SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS STRATEGY.
>>96850543A tornado sucked up my collection, so I bought 20 boxes of SPM to rebuild.
>>96850829
>>96850832>A tornado sucked up my collection, so I bought 20 boxes of SPM to rebuild.Damn I only had enough money for 6! You're a real Nebraskan hero!
>>96850822Because Gavin and Mark said that EDH is going to be changing the gende- I mean color identity rules to allow hybrid mana cards and because they're autistic they think this is going to give white its only token doubler.
>>96850891>poltards are the edhtardscan't say I'm surprised
>>96850821bold of you to assume those are people
>>96850891>Because Gavin and Mark said that EDH is going to be changing the gende- I mean color identity rules to allow hybrid mana cards and because they're autistic they think this is going to give white its only token doubler.The fuck is this rule even going to be?Some horrible rube goldberg machine to explain why are card that is explicitly outside your commander's color identity? (Hybrid cards ARE BOTH COLORS)
>>96851170Hybrid cards are one or the other and can slot into monocolor of either color. This is the entire point of hybrid cards, nigga.
>>96851170All Hybrid pips will be treated as an or instead of an and. Normal pips will still follow the same rules.
>>96851224>All Hybrid pips will be treated as an or instead of an andOkay but THE CARD IS STILL BOTH COLORS AND A CARD'S IDENTITY INCLUDES ITS COLORS.
>>96851309Yeah, that's going to change, so color identity of hybrid pips is "X or Y" instead of "X AND Y", simple as.
>>96851318>Yeah, that's going to change, so color identity of hybrid pips is "X or Y" instead of "X AND Y", simple as.Color identity INCLUDES THE COLOR OF THE CARD.A hybrid card IS BOTH COLORS AT ALL TIMES.You can't just fucking shrug and say it isn't. That's fucking retarded and NOT A LEGAL DECISION TO MAKE WITHIN THE RULES OF MTG.
color identity isn't real
>>96851338Anon, I don't know if you understand this concept, but the rules are changeable. They changed how the legend rule works, how state-based actions are checked, how artifacts function, how damage is dealt.
>>96851224>>96851318>All Hybrid pips will be treated as an or instead of an and. Normal pips will still follow the same rules.>Yeah, that's going to change, so color identity of hybrid pips is "X or Y" instead of "X AND Y", simple as.The only thing this would change is the identity of cards like Alesha. Cards that have hybrid mana costs would remain both colors, even if the pips were MacGuyvered into being variable.If that was actually the change they made, then they did not accomplish what they think they accomplished and you still would not be able to play hybrid cards from out of your identity.Color identity includes a card's color as well as all present pips. Both, not one or the other.
>>96851338It's the same as devoid it's colorless at all times but the pips is all that matters.
>>96851363>Anon, I don't know if you understand this concept, but the rules are changeable.If you're at the point where you think taking a lumbering axe to the fucking roots of your game is acceptable, you are a human that deserves to be blacklisted from every industry that requires thought to partake in.
>>96851380Yes, but the pips AND COLOR matter. Identity is not only a card's pips. Evermind cannot go in a red deck, because it is blue.If the rules change was that pips are variable, you still would not be able to play out-of-identity hybrid cards, because the card would still be the wrong color.And if they DID change the rules to allow out-of-color cards in decks, then I can now play Evermind in my red identity deck.
You know the worst part is that this isn't even a joke, I've seen people on youtube express these opinions seriously.
Can I play pic related in every deck now?If not, you still cannot play hybrid cards out of their identity.
>>96851406No because the card text is specifying color, same as >>96851396Card text will still supersede casing cost
>>96851383The roots of your game? Changing color identity to align with the actual design goals of cards is not dealing any damage to the rules of the game. This is a small change that applies in one format, a format made when hybrid cards weren't even a thing yet. It's a lesser change then the legend rule rework, nevermind damage in the stack.Hybrid cards were MADE to slot into either color. The entire POINT of hybrid cards is that they should be something both colors are able to do and a monocolor deck of either should be able to use the card. This is their entire point.
>>96851414>Card text will still supersede casing costHybrid cards are both colors, the pips in their costs are irrelevant to this fact.
>polschizo getting uppity about his "drop in the bucket" rule that literally nobody outside his fake format cares about
>>96851421And Kenrith the Returned King is a white card and yet considered WURBG for the purposes of color identity, anon. Color identity is completely disconnected from the actual colors of the card and has been for a long while.
>>96851396Cards like Evermind now have pips on the typeline. Two color pips on the typeline will be treated as an and for the foreseeable future.
>>96851396i see how Kamigawa flopped now
>>96851435>"Red getting vanilla bears is fine!">"Black enchantment removal is fine!">"Blue vigilance is fine!">"Card color actually doesn't exist!"Slip down that slope more, retard. Morons like you defend the ruination of literally everything at every chance, and it is pathetic. Your existence is less than worthless, for all you can do is spawn ugliness and destroy beauty.
>>96851461commander caused all of these
>>96851461Remind me again why I'm supposed to care when I don't play your pretend format that acts like something as stupid as "color identity" is important.
>>96851441>And Kenrith the Returned King is a white card and yet considered WURBG for the purposes of color identity, anon.Oh my fucking god.You are the dumbest fucking ostrich-brained retard on the planet.IDENTITYINCLUDESCOLORHYBRIDCARDSAREBOTHCOLORSTHEIRMANACOSTSAREIRRELEVANTTOTHISFACT
>>96851461how is this any remotely like any of the changes you're talking about?It's not even a change to the color pie or to the actual cards. It's a change to enable you to play hybrid cards in monocolor decks of either color. This is the entire idea of hybrid cards, cards that are valid in either color. If you want a card that is only playable in decks of both colors, that's called a multicolor card. Hybrids are the opposite. This change is making it so you can play hybrid cards in the way they were intended to be played.
AIEEEEE NOT MY GEND- COLOR IDENTITY!!!
>>96851475>Remind me again why I'm supposed to care when I don't play your pretend format that acts like something as stupid as "color identity" is important.Bad decisions made to appease EDH impact all other formats.
>>96851495Except this decision doesn't impact real formats at all, because they don't entertain ideas as stupid as color identity.
>>96851476you ever notice that hybrid cards are not gold?
>>96851461This change will be good for actually games as they made powerful hybrid cards because of commander treating it as two color now they can make hybrid cards as intended.
>>96851501Not relevant. Hybrid cards are both colors.Cards with protection from blue have protection from Augury Adept.
>AAIIEEE NOOO THE SANCTITY OF OUR CASUAL FORMAT'S MADE UP RULES CAN'T BE BROKEN BY THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF A CARD'S DESIGN>oh btw companion is allowed to work even though sideboards don't exist
>>96851512>treating it as two colorITISTWOCOLORYOURETARD
>>96851518Well, they don't have protection from Kenrith, but color identity still considers it an WURBG commander. It's almost like color identity is dumb as shit and full of holes.
>>96851530>Well, they don't have protection from Kenrith,ohmyfuckinggodyou flaming fucking braindead vegetable in a coma drooling apple sauce motherfuckerCOLOR IDENTITY.INCLUDES COLOR.A HYBRID CARD.IS BOTH COLORS.
>>96851537Okay, that's the rule as it is now. If the rule changes, that is no longer the case, capisce?
>>96850440>>96850188>>96850113Is it too late for me? Am I already lost into whatever hell you guys are trapped in? I just wanted a fun monster battle card game D;
you need to affirm my color identity
>>96851550>Okay, that's the rule as it is now. If the rule changes, that is no longer the case, capisce?Okay, cool. So protection from blue cards no longer have protection from Augury Adept?You would need protection from White AND Blue to hit it then, right?
>>96851558magic's base rules are very goodif you have friends to play with using cheap cards that aren't packed with 12000 lines of rules text, you'll have a good timedon't go to tournaments
>>96851566No, because color identity =/= color of the card. >>96851485 has a green color identity, for one.
>>96851558>I just wanted a fun monster battle card game D;Wrong game, friendo.MTG is the paypiggie and scalper game.
>>96851566It's UW on the battlefield, just not necessarily at deckbuilding
>>96851578>It's UW on the battlefieldIf you are changing the rules so that hybrid cards are variable in color to fit your gay ass shit idea, then it must be a change that is consistent across the game.Inconsistency is bad design.
How we solve the Red Problem?And dont tell me "HURR JUST BAN CARDS BRO" this a fundamental design problem not a problem that can be solved through just some bans.
my favorite edh combo is when you play painter's servant and all of your opponents lose for having an illegal deck that includes cards outside of their daddy's gender identity
>>96851578>It's UW on the battlefield, just not necessarily at deckbuildingAh yes, the meaningless handwave. A classic technique of WotC.I, for one, loved the saga of "This card doesn't technically work within the rules but we're just going to demand everyone pretend it does."WotC is truly filled with competent people.
>>96851591play community formats
>>96851591>How we solve the Red Problem?Go back in time to before red got vanilla bears, and sabotage the careers of everyone who advocated it.
>>96851558>I wanted a fun monster battle card gameCongratulations! Maybe not what you wanted but you have pizza, turtles, sci-fi shit like spacecrafts and stupid superheros instead!! Magic is for everyone now!!! Not just for you the fantasy enjoyer!
>>96851587>If you are changing the rules so that hybrid cards are variable in color to fit your gay ass shit ideaBut they aren't. They are variable in color identity, which is an entirely different thing then color. Kenrith the Returned King has WURBG color identity even though it's white. Lands are all colourless but you can't put them in every deck.
>>96851612>Magic is for everyoneAnd that means NOT YOU.
>>96851591Bomb Hasbro headquartersBecome WotC CEOFire Nosewater and his bunch of puppets that dont know how to design cards outside of busted red shitProblem solved.
>>96851618Color identity.Includes color.I am fucking brain blasted that you are so retarded, you can read this a dozen times and still blunder forward pretending it was not explicitly expressed at every step of this process.
>>96851591Just wait like two years, you guys will be bitching about [new top color] by then. A few years ago it was B, but you already forgot that or simply don't know because you're a tourist.
>>96851644>Just wait like two years, you guys will be bitching about [new top color] by then.AND THAT'S A THREAT.
>>96851640Okay, so, why are Mountains red in color identity, when they're colorless cards?
>>96851591play vintage where red is balanced
>>96851587>Inconsistency is bad design>In the absolute clown format that is EDHDereviYurikoCampfireCommand BeaconLiesaMyth UnboundRoad of ReturnTevesh SzatHellkite CourserCommander TowerArcane SignetWar RoomCommander's PlateArahboCloudkillVargus WrathFont of MagicEcho StormHenziJyotiJirinaLeadership VacuumOpal PalaceEdgarUr-DragonOloroLurrusZirdaKerugaJegantha
>>96851658>Okay, so, why are Mountains red in color identity, when they're colorless cards?>Being so retarded that you think the word "includes" implies exclusivity.Please take your 15 IQ ass back to preschool before trying to comment on literally anything about any subject.
>>96851667Alright, so, color identity includes color, but not in this case.So why can't it not be in the case of hybrid cards either? You already opened one exception to make the game work better. Why not one more?
>>96851649That's how the game has gone since the start.
>>96851644This, holy shit. I can't wait for the green arc to start again and hear all of the bitching about that.
>>96851673>Alright, so, color identity includes color, but not in this case.Anon, what the fuck do you think the word "includes" means?
>>96851683>Card is colorless>Doesn't have colorless color identity>instead it has some other bullshitClearly it doesn't include its actual color (none). So why can't hybrid cards also not include one of their colors?
>>96851644Aggro fag mountain enthusiast is hurt by the truth i see.I was there when Simic became Poo just because we got some good cards in a row. Is time for Mountains to fall too.
>>96851687No but actually, seriously, genuinely though.Please, I have to see this.Parse the sentence:>"Color identity includes color."And point to where within that sentence it is implied that color is the lone, singular aspect of color identity.
>>96851693>I was there when Simic became Poo just because we got some good cards in a row. Is time for Mountains to fall too.You're agreeing with me. What I said is what you're saying. Simic was garbage for a long time, then it got some really good cards, and then it went back to being garbage. Red is currently getting some really good cards, but it'll drop back down soon enough.
>>96851697Nowhere, which is why I don't see why exactly can't a card's color identity be defined by something outside of its color, when we already have cards with colors that don't match their color identity, as shown by >>96851485
>>96851705Nobody has a problem with metas shifting.The problem is power creep. A worse cancer power creeping the previous cancer is not a good thing.
>>96851707>Nowhere, which is why I don't see why exactly can't a card's color identity be defined by something outside of its colorAlright cool. Now please explain to me in what universe it would be reasonable for Reaper King's color identity to be colorless.
>>96851710>A worse cancer power creeping the previous cancerThis describes almost the entire history of Magic.
>>96851720You can cast it with all colorless mana. Therefore you can play it in a colorless deck.
>>96851736god bless mercadia
>>96851720It's clearly intended to be a versatile card that could theoretically slot into any draft or deck you're doing, because you can cast it for even 10 colorless, while rewarding you for playing more colors since you get to reduce its cost to up to 5 mana, making it more playable.This is the clear design aim of the card, and color identity (a concept not made by anyone actually designing the game and that frequently shocks with how the game is designed because it's made for a version of it that's nearly 30 years old) is getting in the way of playing it as it was intended. Thus, the rule is changed, to make it work better, as the Legend Rule was changed to curb things like bringing 4 copies of Jitte to a deck that can't use it purely as an anti-Jitte silver bullet or playing Jace Beleren to kill Jace the Mind Sculptor.
>>96851742Ay yes, of course. I can pay for phyrexian mana without colors, too!Surely I can then play Moltensteel Dragon in colorless decks then? I mean, I can play it with all colorless mana.
>>96851761Sure idc
>>96851766People who have no standards deserve no regard.
>>96851761I mean, yes, I don't see any problem with that. I run Gut Shot in my monoblue terror deck in Pauper. I can bring a B/W hybrid card to a purely W deck in basically any format but commander.This is the entire design intent of these cards.
>>96851773Sorry for not being as autistic about "color purity" as you, polschizo.
>>96851761yeah have you never played magic before or something
>>96851780>>96851782>These are the people who think Black Aragorn was a good idea.And people wonder why MTG is turning to shit.Newsflash, retards: You are the reason.
>>96851761Yes? This is the point of the card, you can cast it for (4) and 4 life, for (4)(R) and 2 life, or for (4)(R)(R).
>>96851786>Commander playerHe probably hasn't. He plays a game where you need to ask permission to win.
>>96851793>polschizo now coping about black Aragorn completely unpromptedMindbroken by the idea of this being in a monoW deck.
do negroes have a different color identity?they shouldn't be allowed to play serra angel
>>96851761I don't know why you're freaking out about this anon, phyrexian mana cards have a long history of getting played in colorless or different color decks.
>>96851809Letting GixProbe into literally every deck is a perfect example of why this is the dumbest fucking rules change possibly conceivable.
>>96851761Do you think you need swamps to run street wraith?
>>96851818Color identity, anon.You need black identity to run street wraith, yes, you fucking idiot.
>Is this... a red card...?>In a... blue deck...?>How can this be...>AIEEEEEEE SAVE MEEEE COLOR IDENTITY-SAMA
>>96851812I thought this was a casual format where groups will police themselves :)
>>96851822Not the same format, retard-kun.
>>96851821Yeah this is why commander is retarded, go back to your own thread
Can coomander fags please leave
>>96851835Yeah, he posted a real format instead of a fake one.
>>96851805Curious how you defend it the instant it's brought up. Almost as if I was 100% accurate in my statement that you are at fault for the game's decimation.
I don't play commander, is the idea of playing manamorphose in a monored or izzet deck truly this strange to you guys?
>>96851879>I don't play commander, is the idea of playing manamorphose in a monored or izzet deck truly this strange to you guys?Color Identity has been an integral aspect of the format's design since its inception.
Fuck Cummander.Stop polluting real Magic please.
>>96851879i have seen people on youtube and xwitter having meltdowns about this on accounts that use their real namesso yes
>>96851887Well that sounds retarded, since the point of the card is to do that.
>>96851877>Schizos out and brings up black Aragorn for no reason>Gets laughed at for being a schizo>Continues schizoing out about black Aragorn
GO BACK TO YOUR CONTAINMENT THREAD FAGGOTS NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR FORMATKYS
>>96851879Commander players see izzet as the boogeyman colors of the format because it requires you to do things like "not let them get 20 mana and 15 cards". So to them a card that increases storm count by 1 is basically the same as unbanning Time Vault.
>>96851903So yes, you ARE defending black Aragorn and I WAS right in accusing you of being a seditionist fagaloon advocating for the game to get worse.Good to know.
>>96851918>Continues schizoing out over black Aragorn
>>96851841interesting self own there but ok
>>96851929>PLEASE take Commander seriously! You need to be invested in our made-up rule changing to make our fake format function slightly more similarly to the real game!
Vintage and Legacy should be the mono white formats since commander babies are terrified of stax and boardwipes, and JOTC hates white having any power in any other format besides Vintage since White Plume made Delver babies cry
>>96851923You're the one who leaped out of the woodwork to defend it, anon. Now go sleep in the bed you shat in.
>>96851416>Changing color identity to align with the actual design goals of cards is not dealing any damage to the rules of the gameIt absolutely is, you fucking idiot
>>96851943>No, actually YOU brought up black Aragorn for no reason!>Still schizoing out
>>96851416>Changing color identity to align with the actual design goals of cards is not dealing any damage to the rules of the gameAnon, that is explicitly, definitively, exactly the act of damaging the rules of the game.
>>96851950>>96851959>Exactly 90s apartHmm...
>>96851942vintage already is the mono w format
>>96851966stop noticing
>>96851959>>96851950Dealing damage to the rules of the game is making them worse. Seeing that a rule is impeding players from using the cards the way they were meant to be played and changing that rule is objectively not dealing any damage to anything but rather fixing a problem.
>>96851951Yes, we know. You revel in ruination and are a soulless vessel for corporate semen. Carry on.
>>96851971There's something really off-putting about a UB card representing a vintage archetype.
>>96851761Yes, that's how magic the gathering works
What if we just got rid of Commander?
>>96851973>Dealing damage to the rules of the game is making them worse.A) No, you can in fact damage something's integrity with a decision you think will ultimately improve it. Protesters who tear down statues think they are making their city better.B) It is making the game worse. Color identity put unique demands on the format and deleting it makes the format less interesting.
>pick format>throw u/w cards into a pile>winshrimple
>>96851982You can't take this from us! Israe- the command zone was promised to us!
>>96851974>Still schizoing out
>>96851978they just default to the latest printing on previews
>>96851997Yes I am, philistine. Go cry about it.
>>96851972Hey don't shoot me, I don't play EDH. I'm just chiming in that changing the rules, again, is almost always terrible. No I will NOT be allowing attackers to assign damage.
>>96852001no shit. I don't see how that affects my post.
>>96851984>It is making the game worse. Color identity put unique demands on the format and deleting it makes the format less interesting.The diversity added by being able to play hybrid cards in monocolor decks by far outweighs what the restrictions add.
>>96852004>Still schizoing out
>>96852014>diversityRight. Because homogenizing decklists EVEN MORE by allowing them access to optimal hybrid pieces they previously didn't have is going to be SO good for decklist diversity.Rrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
>>96851982that would actually be good for everyone even commander players
>>96852015>>96851997>>96851923>>96851903>>96851951idk this seems like a glass houses/stones kind of situation
>>96852015
>>96852030>>96852034>Still schizoing out
>>96852021How are decklists going to be homogenized? What homogenises decks is generically strong value engines being printed. The One Ring is stronger than literally any hybrid mana card ever, and definitionally this change will help lower colour decks more than it will the homogenous four or five colour goodstuff soup decks who could play all this shit already anyway, and very few of them are any remotely close to optimal because hybrid power level, on average, is below that of a normal card to account for the flexibility of the casting cost. There are very few must play hybrid cards, so I just don't buy that being able to run cold eyed selkie and 3-drop kiora in monoG or monoU decks is going to suddenly make them all identical.
>>96851414Wrong, you can't put devoid cards unless their color identity fits with your commander
>>96852037
>>96852044>Still schizoing out
>>96852039>How are decklists going to be homogenized?gw decks previously unable to play gu hybrid cards will now play said gu hybrid cards.Every list will include optimal pieces that it previously did not have access to.Pieces that some decks previously had exclusive access to will now be in more decks than before.This is basic fucking arithmetic, anon.
>>96852042>need to break the rules of the game just to make commander format worklol
>>96852056Name one "optimal" gu hybrid card.
>>96852042>Is BW.>Has no color.Devoid confuses me.
>>96852048
>>96852056>Every list will include optimal pieces that it previously did not have access to.This dude is playing cedh lmao
>>96852072>Still schizoing out
>>96852056>Every list will include optimal pieces that it previously did not have access to.So... they will have more cards to play with and more decisions to make?>Pieces that some decks previously had exclusive access to will now be in more decks than before.So more options?
>>96852061Moving goalposts and also that does not do anything to refute the basic math of the situation. Try again.
>>96852061Wait for Lorwyn Eclipsed :^)
>>96852056If people actually cared about optimal pieces being omnipresent, they'd have banned sol ring and command tower and a million other cards already. But they haven't, because it's a lie.
I think hybrid mana should be an OR only for mono-colored decks
>>96852083>"They gonna jam every card that improves their deck!">Name one card that would improve their deck>"M-Moving the goalposts!"Fucking EDHonlies I swear.
>>96852078>So more options?More options = fewer results. This is one of the most basic rules of trading card game balance. If you give decks more options, decks will gravitate toward the best options.This is why you want to keep options as limited as possible. Any given archetype having fewer options means there will be more variety between archetypes.
>>96852083No, your math is just wrong. Hybrid cards are very rarely anything close to optimal and in fact are in average weaker then the average monocolor card. What do you think is going to happen? Do you think they're going to run what? Rakhasa's Bargain to draw two for 6 mana? Boros Recruit is going wreak havoc in monored goblin decks now?If anything, the fact that mono blue and mono green decks can get access to Kiora means they will probably use it very differently since they dont have access to the same effects and cards to support it
>>96852114Beseech the Queen can now be run in every deck, even in colors without access to tutors. You're an idiot.
>>96852133>a six mana colourless tutor is going to become a mandatory format staple I'm going to assume you are somehow playing with downgraded precons.
>>96852133>Pay 6 mana for worst tutor ever will destroy the format
Why do we have commanderniggers in this thread?
>>96852114See>>96852104
>>96852141tbf most EDH players are so bad at deckbuilding they basically make downgraded precons. If you ever look at an EDH-only influencer's decklists, it usually follows this pattern:>5 points of interaction total>10 random 8+ mana bombs that have nothing to do with the rest of the deck>20 ramp cards>No draw sources outside command zone, Rhystic Study, and The One Ring>Rest is tutors to find aforementioned cards
>>96852142whoa... a colorless tutor... this must be the strongest card ever printed...
>>96852141EDH has access to ungodly amounts of colorless mana ramp, mate. Giving every deck access to black's tutor toolkit is PSYCHOTIC.
>>96852077
>>96852179This format sounds more gay and retarded by the minute
All this has told me is that EDH players don't actually play their own game or they would know this hybrid """change""" is a complete nothingburger.
>>96852179>these new cards are going to be a problem, they'll become staples>why are they going to be a problem?>because of the ungodly amounts of staples we already havepeak comedy
>>96852142>6 mana>implying they also didn't lift the mana generation restriction almost a decade ago
>>96852204If you are playing all-color lands or Chromatic Lantern effects purely so you can cast Beseech the Queen for BBB I have no complaints,. it's a meme deck at best.It's like running monocolor Sunburst. You can do it, but why the fuck would you?
>>96852191yes but it's the only thing people play anymore
Reminder that this is the demographic that thinks Emrakul and Coalition Victory are stronger than The One Ring and Mana Drain
>>96852204>mana generation restrictionI've never touched commander, this is a joke right? Anon is just shitposting by making up ridiculous sounding rules?
>>96852225You used to only be able to generate your commander's colors, yes. It was retarded.
>>96852220This image but he’s thinking of red raping white
>>96852167Your reasoning is just wrong, because there are already over 100 staples for every color and color combination. Adding new hybrid staples (not many) will mean you need to choose between them and the monocolor ones. If you want to run pic related, you have to drop another monowhite and monored card.
>>96852191>This format sounds more gay and retarded by the minuteNever tried it?It's even gayer than you think. People intentionally build decks so they don't win too fast.
>>96852192The problem is not strictly mechanical. Mechanically hybrid cards make sense to count as mono color cards from either color. The problem is that it clashes with the deck building restriction referred to as color identity, which is THE cornerstone of the format, more so than even having a commander. People became concerned when, after the RC gave up control of the format to WOTC under interesting circumstances, WOTC immediately are flexing their newfound power in multiple ways.Clearly wotc has plans for hybrid mana in the near future and will change the format to suit their goals rather than for the health of the format overall. Oh also im sure maro is more than happy to have his shitty companion mechanic have some new life breathed into it and probably actively despises the format for stealing some of his thunder.
where are the ATLA spoilers?
>>96852295When the pigs needed slop most, they vanished.
>>96852213Have you not been paying attention? dawg they have been printing lotus petal tokens attached to everything for the last 5 years. >>96852225It was not a shitpost, it is the way it was and I would argue that removing this rule was a bad thing. I personally liked feeling like a naya mage or a rakdos mage.It's just another thing that was eroded from the format as it slid into slop.
>>96852284>probably actively despises the format for stealing some of his thunder.If so, he's based, because Commander has been an objective net negative for this game.
should we merge the generals since all we talk about is commander anyways
>>96852295Tomorrow piggy
Why only Avatar could stop the Fire Nation? Is it the strongest element?
>>96852343>weback to your containment thread, edhpiggy
>>96852335This is in a nutshell the design philosophy that has lead to this >>96843946 an awful, retarded and stupid company if you ask me.
Why only Ugin could stop Bolas? Is it the gayest dragon?
>>96852364I didn't know that izzet cauldron was actually a 5c deck splashing simic and rakdos hybrid cards.
>>96852357Of course fire is the strongest element, it's black.>we wuz pyromansas n shiet
>>96852364Name one (1) hybrid card that's being used by Izzet Cauldron
>>96852422Not an argument.
>>96852065Devoid is legitimately one of the worst thought out "additions" to the game, especially as it serves no in game purpose other than to try to have their cake and eat it too by having Eldrazi with hard coloured mana casting requirements but still being "colourless" somehow. Dumb as shit, along with anus mana. People will cite WAR as the beginning of the end, but Battle for Zendikar was the real turning point.
>>96852434It's exactly an argument. You said the design principles of hybrid cards led to Izzet Cauldron. Well, Izzet Cauldron isn't using any of these, so you're just wrong.
>>96852440>Devoid is legitimately one of the worst thought out "additions" to the game, especially as it serves no in game purpose other than to try to have their cake and eat it too by having Eldrazi with hard coloured mana casting requirements but still being "colourless" somehow. Dumb as shit, along with anus mana.Worst part is, they could have just done shit like pidc related and still had their cake, and ate it too, and not been stupid as fuck about it.
>>96852440I don't see how "this card is actually colorless despite having color pips" is any sort of gamebreaking concept when cards that can change their own color to interact with color-targeted effects have long since been a mainstay.
>>96852445>You said the design principles of hybrid cards led to Izzet Cauldron. Well, Izzet Cauldron isn't using any of these,I'm not even going to respond to an assertion so stupid.
>>96852453>they should have done [infinitely more complicated effect that takes paragraphs to explain and that nobody liked or even used] instead retard
>>96852453Prototype would have also been a much better way to do the effect.
>>96852478>"If WB was spent to cast it"is not complicated at all, the fuck are you talking about?
I don't really grasp the hybrid mana change. However I made a vow to myself to stop caring about Commander format entirely and to only ever play it with precons if I have to. The thought of being a sweaty EDH player who hears about this change and thinks about how to optimize their deck with these changes, in a casual 4 player non-tournament format... that couldn't be me.
>>96852478Do yourself a favor and don't look at any of the upcoming Lorwyn set hybrid previews, anon...
>>96852490Are you not seeing the card? It's not even remotely the same effect or the same concept.Devoid is the simplest shit ever. The card is colourless. That's all. It's a normal card but it's treated as colorless by the rest of the game. The effect you're proposing is essentially a modal card that changes wildly based on the mana spent to cast it and is a completely different mechanical principle then anything in the Eldrazi tribe.It's not even a good principle. Nobody played it or liked it.
>>96852500Monowhite decks are going to be so busted with all these new staples.
>>96852500I am just going to leave this here...
>>96852466It's just plain lazy is what it is>we wanna do eldrazi>eldrazi are colorless>but we need more mana pips in the set>wait guys i have the COOLEST idea for a keyword of all time
>>96852509>Are you not seeing the card? It's not even remotely the same effect or the same concept.>2WB>This card is colorless>Do WB things>4>If WB was spent to cast this, do WB things.Yes they are? Are you an idiot?
>>96852500Note that all these cards are mythics. Are you saying all Eldrazi should have as much text as a mythic in them?
>>96852531There will absolute be more to go in line with WotC changing the hybrid rules for Commander, you can bet your ass on that.
>>96852527It works fine. Having Eldrazi all be completely colorless would require them be far more generic and/or confine you to exclusively playing colorless in draft.This way you can still have them be a recognizable tribe with their recognizable appearance and mechanical aspect remaining unchanged without having to deal with any of the unfun shit that mechanic would result in. Easy peasy.
>>96852518That one literally would remain Dimir according to what they proposed.
>>96852530One is a modal card, the other is a normal card that happens to be colorless. They are completely different cards.
>>96852556If you're too stupid to see how they are functionally identical, that's a you problem mate.
>>96852545...except in the exact same set they also came up with the "great idea" to have many eldrazi require a hard generic mana to cast thanks to anus mana. They really tried to do everything at once and all it ended up doing was overcomplicating several things which were not issues at all in the past.
>>96852566One can be cast for 4 even if its effects won't trigger, meaning it essentially has a vanilla mode. The other cannot.It also can't have anything but ETB effects as it will be a pain in the ass to track whether or not the cost was paid for the rest of the game.
>>96852530nta but the second card would need to do colorless thing if WB isn't spent, otherwise it's a pretty dumb design
>>96852547Oops, tagged the wrong anon. >>96852518 was meant for >>96852478
>>96852612>nta but the second card would need to do colorless thing if WB isn't spent, otherwise it's a pretty dumb designSweet baby fucking jesus as if Devoid isn't dumb to begin with? Are you seriously out here defending fucking DEVOID of all things?
>>96852284This inane conspiracism is just stupid. they want to make hybrid mana more widely available for more decks because they're printing a bunch of hybrid mana in ATLA and Lorwyn, that's not some big secret you've discovered. "a lot of upcoming sets are going to be using hybrid mana, this is a tool R&D has said they're going to be deploying more moving forward to help limited, so they think it's an opportune time to look at the ruling on that on commander" is not any kind of conspiracy.Besides, why do people think WotC even NEEDS a sinister sneaky trojan horse rule change to print a bunch of chase cards that everyone's gonna buy? Were you all asleep for the one ring? Did you just wake up from a years long coma where WotC hadn't been changing the de facto rules of commander by fiat by printing mechanics like partner and ikoria free spells for the last decade?
>>96852674I genuinely do not see how it is anything close to dumb. It's the simplest keyword imaginable. It's a card that is considered colorless. That's all. There is infinitely dumber shit in this game, there is dumber shit among Eldrazi like processors/ingest, it's not even a new effect since fucking Ghostfire existed already
>>96852545It does work "fine," but like... why do it? They had fully colored eldrazi in ROE just fine
>>96852284>The problem is not strictly mechanical. Mechanically hybrid cards make sense to count as mono color cards from either color.It doesn't fucking matter if it "makes sense"What matters is the fucking rules of the game, which you should not wrench around at a whim because a bunch of adult children are whining that they can't play Waves of Aggression in their Isamaru dog tribal deck.
>>96852674No, I'm just pointing out that your suggestion is also dumb. It was a dumb goal to begin with, they shouldn't try to force cards to be colorless.
>>96852710Because Eldrazi are beings that eat color. They eat the life and mana of a plane and shit out grey wastelands. That's their thing, but making them all exclusively colorless plays like shit, so they made devoid so they can be colorless and colored as needed while still being recognizably Eldrazi.
>>96852712The rules of a game are changed as the game evolves. The hybrid card change was long overdue.The hybrid mana rules were dumb since the fucking start. The point of hybrid mana is it could be either one. So now, it's going to be either one. That's all.
>>96852773>The rules of a game are changed as the game evolves.AND THAT IS A BAD THING.
>>96852785Please refer to penalty kicks as to why you are wrong and everyone thinks you're gay.
>>96852785yeah let's bring back mana burn and combat damage on the stack
>>96852785Truth, that's why we never should've had a restriction on how many copies of a card can be in a deck. If you're not playing kitchen table with made up rules, you're not playing as Garfield intended.
>>96852785Right, let me sleeve up my 30 Time Walk deck and we'll play!
>>96852846>sleevenot originally allowed in tournaments, filthy rule-changer!
>>96852785It's not that bad. It's not like every mono-blue or mono-white deck is going to start running Dovescape just because they can. They just have the option to do so.
>>96852810>combat damage on the stackthis but unironically
>>96852785I refuse to believe that even any of you retards here could be this contrarian.
>>96852888printed before damage on the stack and is more interesting without it
>>96852912wrong
>>96852231how would one depict the colors?
Would it still be played?
rakdos negroes vs mono W women
>>96852335This is one of the most retarded points I've seen out of these threads. It really does make the other side sound like they've been frothing at the mouth for over a decade that they can't play Kitchen Finks in their Brago deck or Rhys the Redeemed in their monogreen or BG elf deck. There are tens of thousands of cards to choose from, many of them being printed every year. The only reasons you would need to break the concept of color identity just for the sake of letting hybrid cards be used in whatever deck you want are malicious intent and autism.
>>96852984Change the value checked to be counters instead of power and it might see a little less play than dimir.
>>96852984*untaps my Vivi 20 times*heh, nothen personnel kid
>>96853071Leyline of Transformationbros we're so back.
>>96852785you are NOT safe in premodernyou will NOT escape MaNo's influence
>>96853038>oh woe is me monogreen decks can maybe play scion of draco now if they happen to draw this one card in their opening hand!
>>96852984Should have been a tap effect from the start
I think color identity is retarded and there's a reason hybrid already works that way everywhere except in commander
>>96853158i just think it's very fitting that "identity" is an important concept in commander
>>96853119Don't forget both cards are completely dead on their own for no payoff.
>>96853119You didn't even read my post, did you? You just looked at the pic and assumed I just had an issue with that card in particular, didn't you?
>>96851812>he doesn't want edh to have a pot of greedngmi
>>96852984yesbut it will be a fair combo/tempo card and not the modern level of bullshit that it is right now
>>96851761
>>96853470Comedically, this conversation is>"I want to run off-color phyrexian mana cards in any deck!"
>>96853479
>>96853488Comedically, this conversation is>>"I want to run off-color phyrexian mana cards in any deck!"
>>96853507
What did they mean by this?
>>96853532autistic mating ritual
>>96853546Ah, I see. What a learning experience.
Gonna try to play some leagues today
JUND IN CONTROL EDITION>>96853589>>96853589>>96853589>>96853589>>96853589
NEU THRED>>96853593>>96853593>>96853593>>96853593>>96853593
>>96853597u fuck i got dubs delet this
>Sniped by 12 secondsCruel, cruel world.
>>96853615stay mad, lol, lmao even
>>96849049Grow up arachnophobia is learned
