Real OP Edition>Previous Heresy: >>96848341>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Thread question:What's left for them to preview next week?
>>96857967Ligma? Probably another mini book with another 3 pages of rules.
I have painted too much heresy recently so I will paint guys for something else instead.
Are you satisfied with your legion trait rules? What would you change?
>>96858035I think the legion for my dudes , in combination with legion specific units rules, make it for an expiriance where you either only use stock unit with a storm seer being the WS element in it. Or you try to use WS units and you are having a very bad day. And that is before thinking how much all speeders, jetbikes from FW cost you .
>>96857967>tqPlastic Fire Raptor
>>96858035Yes. IH rules essentially haven't changed since 1.0 (they just lost the forced weakness like everyone else did). It's a strong effect you will feel every game. It clearly indicates the strength of the legion and also telegraphs a weakness. It's not too oppressive (MotA from 2.0 aside since that was just comped out of the game), the rule isn't complicated. It just works.
>>96858035I'm pretty happy with UMEven if their rule is weaker, +1 free reaction seems a lot more fitting for the strategy autists than just +1 to hit on everything just bc something else shot at it first. Their reaction is also brutal and I don't have to feel bad anymore taking suzerains because they are no longer just objectively better terminators for the same pointsI guess I'd change some of the special units rules bc there's still absolutely no point to praetorian breachers, locutarus are also kinda pointless now that generic jumpack vets are a thing and fulmentarus still suck. At least give them D2 missiles...
>>96857967>tqI guess the new cataphractii and maybe release date for Breachers
>>96858035>Are you satisfied with your legion trait rules?Yea, NL have a really cool one.>What would you change?Realistically? Nothing, its a well designed rule. If I was allowed to just change things? +1 to hit when shooting at a target with status effects. Just cuz.
>>96858244I know that people use legion cataphracts a lot, but do people use breachers? Regular or Legion specific? They seem to be a bit like very expensive tacticals with weaker line.
>>96858035I just want an FAQ so all the arguing about Alone and Forgotten ends.
>>96856233I do like how Movie Marines that Oath can get. An allied detachment of one sarge (paragon of battle centurion), one vox operator (MoS), their rhino (Damocles) and four regular guys (Cents with assorted gear) works perfectly well, although the rhino is a bit redundant.>>96858035Death Guard is surprisingly in-depth, I'm enjoying it. It is a bit odd that it makes them the best at transport-mounted infantry or drop pod assault, I admit, but the multimelta squad in LR Explorator is a fun unit and actually does quite meaningful damage to AV14.
>>96858035Blackshields getting +1T and S for pinned/stunned/suppressed seems pretty good considering how relevant those effects are. +2T/S for multiple effects is also good.
>>96858035At first I was dissatisfied with how seemingly subpar the word bearers trait was, but after a few games with its actually come up a surprising amount, especially since I like using Despoilers in Rhinos to force small tactical squads off objectives or to capitalize on bigger squads getting run off by the gal vorbak
>The /hhg/ posters could not be like that. They were the primal forces of the universe. They were built to doompost and doompost again, never ceasing, for in hopeposting there was ruin. It was their bitterness that made them based, not their gratitude. And that is why they are still admired, loved, adored, even now when the embers of the edition GW torched are still cooling. And that is why those of them who still live will never change - they will do just what they always did, recklessly, impulsively, until they either destroy themselves or take the Warhammer 40,000: The Age of Darkness; The Horus Heresy down with them. And praise the Powers for that - I could never have posted with one of them if they had been as cringe and reddit-brained as you.What did Chris Wraight mean by this?
>>96858035Gotta go fast, can go fast
>>96858371That I am 45 and have been shit posting on BBS, and I still do it now. And will probably do it till I die. Never playing, never painting. Just buying and shit posting.
Plastic tarantulas are a gift even though the new design is kinda bleh.
>>96858293Idk about regular but veteran breachers seem funThe normal ones are harder to put a status effect on and the Sgt can have meltaboms. Lascutters are cool too.
>>96857967>What's left for them to preview next week?Plastic Armigers/Moirax for LI.
>>96857967Also when you make the new thread put the following in it under the AT&LI section>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/
Do mk2 use ball joints for arms? I want to use chaos knight and skull crusher arms to give them shields/ different weapons
>>96858475Plastic warlord weaponsplastic armigers/moriaxnew rapier titannew nightgaunt warlordAT revival NOW
>>96858489No
>>96858475We're gonna get another big plastic tank and then a bunch of LI stuff
>>96857967We know we got plastic custards inbound at some unspecified point as well as 30k skittles, they could very well do either.
>>96857967>What's left for them to preview next week?Curse of knight heads returns
Scouring leaks were cool, but the setting just doesn't do it for me like the apex of the heresy did. From here its just connecting all the dots to 40k and I could care less about that desu
>>96858561Please no, that's too cruel
Brothers of Perfection, sound off!
>>96858570All will perish.
>>96858035There has to be one so might as well be me.I play DA. I don't like our trait.I'd make it +1 ld and/or cool and be done with it. Something that can come up from time to time.
>>96858561>30K isnt showing enough growth>divert production to making 6 more bloodbowl teams, Cathay wave 3 and 2 new undead factions for AoS!
>>96858433uh based?
>>96858602GW continues to shoot itself in the foot by keeping all of its games in internal competition rather than have stuff you can share across them
>>96858561
>>96858628Yup, it's exactly the kind of system a psychotic CEO who wants to keep his departments feuding to maintain his own power would encourage. Sears did the same thing and look at what happened to that.
knight heads... for ligmaan entirely untapped market
>>96858594It hasn't come up at all in any of my games yet. This might be an oversight by GW not realising it doesn't affect the Ld. check for losing combat. If it did it would actually be a situationally strong trait, because being able to roll a 6 and disengage regardless of how badly you lost combat would be really useful. Don't mind the current DA trait too much personally, as it has allowed me to prove to local players that you indeed don't even need a legion trait to win games.
>>96858499aw, do you think it would be difficult to attempt tho?
>>96858347Yeah, the trait is super useful even if it isn’t exactly strong. Helps that everything else the legion gets is super impactful. Ashen circle are frankly ridiculous. The legion just needs some points drops and a rewrite of the praetor upgrade and they’re a solid A tier
>>968587101. Are they the right scale? Are they going to look massive or weedy?2. just flatten the ball
>>96858673I'd buy ligma sized versions of the resin heads.
>>96857967Let’s just talk about what we really want to hear. What do you feel are the biggest misconceptions about 3.0 so far.Piggybacking off the last thread, vanguard have been super impactful in my games even if it’s nowhere as consistent as line. It feels like too many people look at the subpar assaults or despoilers and write off all the other vanguards from that
>>96858587>>96858673Already done
>>96858750Got a number of them:>Misconception: melee being bad.>With the higher mobility, set up moves denying reactions, and higher minimum guaranteed charge distance, the latest I've seen melee units reach close combat is turn two.>Misconception: plasma weapons being bad. >Especially the blast plasma weapons are down right scary. My castraferrum dread with two gravis plasma cannons has been terrorising the local scene, even plasma cannon HSS are a serious threat.>Misconception: land raiders and spartans being the best shooting tanks. >Have seen them struggle to kill a single predator or vindicator tank in several games, and fail to kill enough terminators to cause a routed check. Every time somebody has their land raiders and spartans hang back to shoot instead of rush forward to deliver their cargo, they basically handed their opponent an easy win.>Misconception: tactical spam being good.>No amount of tactical marines is gonna shift a terminator squad or other elite unit blocking them from getting to the objective. Shooting phase also happens after the movement phase, so even if something else shoots the blocking unit the tactical marines can't reach the point before the opponent gets a turn to clap back.And a personal misconception: thought magna-melta predators would be terrible now that they are only 1 shot. But after having to play them to get to the agreed points limit, they've proven to be quite decent actually. Only need to be lucky once to one-bang even a land raider, and with 12" movement and melta range their threat range is substantial. Even outside of melta range the 4 dmg plus lascannon sponsons is usually enough to remove a Rhino in one shooting phase.
>>96858750If you use all your reactions to move tac squads off objectives you will get raped in later phasesIf you save all your reactions to smokescreen against AT then your non-tanks will get raped during the shooting phase
>>96858884> takes one of the few good plasma options> this means plasma is actually good
>>96858948>One plasma weapon bad>This means all plasma badTwo can play at that game. And haven't had a chance to test out a plasmagun TSS yet, will definitely do after how many units turned out actually useful despite /hhg/ claims to the contrary.
>>96858948Weve done the maths, plasma TSS are just peachy. Plasma outriders are also fine. Its less "one good plasma unit" as much as "one bad one" (saturnines).
>>96858492AT REVIVAL NOW
>>96858654You act like the departments have any control over the CEO, who is picked by and serves at the discretion of the Board of Directors
>>96859002>>968590354/12 plasma weapons have breaching 4+ and those are the ones that most people are taking. Not really a stretch to call the category bad when people are ignoring 2/3rds of the options imo
>EC got shafted from the HH following Angel Exterminatus>EC got shafted almost entirely from the SoT>EC in the process of getting shafted from the ScouringNote that this isn't the hot, fun sort of shafting.
>>96858577Awoo
>>96859190Aruuu
>>96858035DA going from "every unit you take gets one of 6 possible little buffs" to "status test slop rule so badly written I've never had be relevant in the five games I've played" is so terribly bad. I hate it so much. Dark Angels are basically "Terranic Greatsword" the legion now.
>>96859212> Reeeeeeee my rules are shit now!I thought Loyalty was it's own Reward
>>96859212>"every unit you take gets one of 6 possible little buffs"So you know this was bad right? If you can't see how this was also a problem then there's no point in continuing to post further because you're part of the problem
>3.0
>>96859212They hate you because you tell the truth.
>>96859212>Terranicmore like TYRANNIC amirite?
>>96857967>TQThe new female custodes character
>>96859212Come on now, the 2.0 DA trait was problematic, even DA players acknowledged that. Don't be like those salty 1.0 TS players who are still seething over no longer having one of the most broken OP armies you faggot.
>>96858035>RGIt's fine I guess. I much rather have mass infiltrate. It has the same issue in 40k where it truly only benefits shooty units. Our good melee is likely to close to the center to benefit in most scenarios. When you tech into it then it becomes really toxic really fast.>TSYes, no notes
Are there any exceptionally rad blackshield titan legios?
How would you best run Destroyers on foot (or in a Rhino)?
>>96859456But their rules are horrible. Interaction with fear, where outside of one legion practicaly nothing has fear, and they aren't even immune to it or can ingore it, but they downgrade a version of it that is on like 4-5 models in the game. There is bad, there is uninspiring and there is DA which may as well not exist. And I would get it if this was somehow balanced by something like powerful legion units or powerful legion weapons. But their stuff is mostly side grades or plasma , which GW hates this edition. Armies can be something in between my legion has the most powerful OP rules and my legion is dog shit. And am not even a DA player. I play WS, or rather played, now I just wait for fixes.
How would you explain list building, and specifically equipment choices, to zoomers that have not encountered it before (only familiar with nu 40k)?
>>96859521I run two units. Pack and in a rhino. 2 missiles and phosphex each. Foot gets hammer and two serpents pairs to match points with the jump ones.
>>96859486I made my own custom legion that is effectively blackshield. Worked with the ordo reductor and have no heraldry of their own. I painted up a few at Titanicus release and don't know if it's cringe or not.
>>96858561Those were rotten days.
>>96859542I would tell them to read the rulebook
>>96859486Xestobiax is technically blackshield.
>>96859486Legio Lysandre is one of like 2 canon blackshield legions. The other is the traitor half of Venator who are lame and got rekt.
>>96859648There's a balance to strike between upgrading units and having more units. I was wondering what a good way to explain it would be.
>>96859166People being stupid isnt a problem with the weapons. Yea, plasma guns breach worse now, they still do more damage (on average) than they did before. The power of firing 2 shots all the time!
>>96859743Understanding that normally takes practice but also relies heavily on taste and what the player wants to use.If you must explain it succintly then say that the standard army roster only allows basic troops and any othet flavor of unit depends on how many consuls and centurions you use.
>>96859743There is no "hard rule" to that, if there was a concrete answer people wouldnt have divergent llists. Just explain that there is a balance to be found, and that the balance varies based on what you want your army to do, what you expect to face and what missions you think you might be playing.
>>96859533I hope you get nothing and some fringe rules change makes your army even more unplayable so you can fuck off already
>>96859212DA getting a generically useful but very minor legion trait (in line with their shared legion character) but having it supplemented by powerful options elsewhere is fine.
>>96859798>>96859870So "focus on decking out the one or two units that know you want to run, play the game to figure out the rest"? "it's a game of experience" is probably not going to go down well especially since we're on a timed cycle on editions
>>96859212Was the DA trait where they hit on 3+ with swords at equal WS bad?
>>96859308>"oh man, your ravenwing vehicles or jetbikes moves an extra two inches, or maybe your normal bolters get plus 1 to hit, or maybe you get slightly more tanky against incoming plasma people barely brough" What a dishonest hack, Deathwing was the only flat out "good" one and it was just "you hit better when using swords" which was their 1st edition gimmick that was bad. Fucking no game shiter.>>96859456>One of the most balanced legions, regularly a B tier legion by all discussions was totally problematic. actual bait by no game shitters The issue with Dark Angels ALWAYS was their special units which were pushed, not their core rules, anyone saying otherwise literally didn't play the fucking game.
>>96855384I remember really appreciating your snake magos ages ago at the tail end of 1e, very nice to see that army's still about. Shame you can't stick jetpacks on magi anymore or Outflank characters with Vorax, I would like to make a team of horrible flying insect-men arcuitors.
Is allowing multiple units to deepstrike in this edition at the same time something that would cause it to break? And I have another question does allowing armies to deepstrike turn 1 cause a lot of fuckery?
>>96860001>generically usefulLiterally useless, you have to imagine scenarios where it matters. > but having it supplemented by powerful options elsewhereYou mean the 2 single good legion units they have, Exindo and Deathwing Companions, and only because they are eternal warrior 1 and can have terranic greatswords... wow... so cool. Inner Circle are overpriced to shit and lack vanguard, the plasma flamers got nerfed to complete shit and with how set up moves work can be charged before they can even try to overwatch... Plasma repeaters make any unit you upgrade way too expensive.The legion is now 2 special units, good job.
>>96860027>So "focus on decking out the one or two units that know you want to run, play the game to figure out the rest"?Sure? Its okay advice for getting people to play the game. >experience doesent workSure it does, because its the same with 40k. Do you invest in a lot of shitty cheap units or a few elite expensive units? Tall vs wide is just a general gameplay paradigm.
>>96860226>you have to imagine scenarios where it matters."losing combat by like 4"Wowiee so hard.>Inner Circle are overpricedThey arent. Theyre entirely in line with other units of their kind + have their special rules stapled on top. >no vanguardAnd? Theyre a cata command squad. >You mean the 2 single good legion units they have,You have six special detachments (vs the usual one) and of them five (so not ironwing) are very powerful.
Is 1 Lightning Claw on Assault Squad sergeant worth it or should I go for double LC? I have one from the older Mk3 box but it's only left-handed and I'm wondering if I can get by with just one + pistol
>>96860205>Is allowing multiple units to deepstrike in this edition at the same time something that would cause it to break?Yes, because deep strike does not scatter (and reactions like intercept were gutted) mass DS would be overly strong.>turn 1 DSNo, thats fine. The MoD can already do that. Its basically super-infiltrate now.
>>96860277What about deepstriking multiple units at once turn one but everything can scatter? OP or fair? Also how was intercept nerfed?
>>96860298>Also how was intercept nerfed?Used to be if you had an augury scanner and someone deep struck, you got a free intercept on them. Now you dont. Intercepting also didnt prevent a unit making further reactions. >mass DS but everything scattersSo old DS? Im sure theres some way to balance it. But heres the issue:Last edition small scale DS was useless because of interception, but mass DS was still fine and indeed what the interceptor reactions were there to help against because otherwise it could be oppressive. Bringing back old dynamics just brings back old issues. What I would consider is maybe something like "chain DS". You can have multiple units drop in BUT the initial unit scatters and then all subsequent units have to be placed within 12" of the original unit (or something). So you can still have large scale forces DS in, but it wont let you just go everywhere all at once.
>>96860227thanks.>>experience doesent worki said "game of experience" (ie, i do not look forward to telling people they need more experience) feels like a cop out answer sometimes.
>>96860372Would intercept being at snap shots but more easily available be okay? Also I like your idea for mass deepstrike. Kind of like old rite of wars for pods and termites.
>>96860444It does, but its genuinely the only real answer that works. Same for 40k, there is no hard rule of "you need X units, Y elites, Z chaff and then exactly four characters". Its something that comes with experience and getting the feel of the game, art not science.
>>96860255NTA, but why the hate towards the DA ?Because I'd agree with the fact their trait is probably the worse and on a side note, I'm yet to be convinced that their detachements makes up for it.They have companions that look I think too good for their price, but that's about it if I was to be completely honest.
>>96860461>Would intercept being at snap shots but more easily available be okay?Here is the issue the way I see it, and its not got anything to do with "how potent any given interception is". If you can mass intercept work- put enough shots at DS to threaten mass deep strike assaults - then you end up making limited deep strike a liability (since it would just explode instead of saturating the targets/withstanding the reaction allowance).Its hard to have something scale to both individual units AND large scale unit formations. Maybe "a unit can only be intercepted once"? But im spittingballing here.
>>96860255>Theyre entirely in line with other units of their kindOk you flat out dont play the game, good to know. >Theyre a cata command squadNo, that's the specifically designed Cata Deathwing Companions squad dumbass.
>>96860274Double LC is better
>>96860512I see what you’re saying. Anything that would threaten mass DS would have to be managed differently for smaller DS blobs as far as intercept is concerned
>>96860504DA can take elites and retinue's with their deathwing detachment without having to take a High Command choice. I have been abusing this by not taking a High Command, meaning my opponent's can't score Slay the Warlord and are always down a secondary objective. Also breaching 5+ flamers are fucking busted now that you use the template during snap shots, rather than doing D3 auto-hits. Inner circle knights can fire their plasma flamers up to 3 times in one turn when they charge, and that is in addition to their close combat attacks. Interemptors need little explanation, spamming Str 6 flamers already annihilates infantry through the sheer number of saves they force even without the breaching 5+
>>96860533>Ok you flat out dont play the game, good to know.>cost like cata command squads (their closest and most common equivalent)>perform as well into terminators as they ever did>"no theyre not in line with other terminators!"lmao>No, that's the specifically designed Cata Deathwing Companions squad dumbass.No you retard, those have different numbers restrictions and have eternal warrior. While cenobium are "just" ws5 cata terminators (with their special rule).
>>96860533>Whining about Vanguard being useless>Whining about a unit not having VanguardThe duality of /hhg/
>>96860255you can spot a total retard instantly if they try to tard-shill the joke dark angels in 3E. It's not like a subtle thing, they're a steaming turd of a faction not in the ballpark of real ones anymore.DA trait is very far the worst. Since you're retarded and don't know how it works - It literally does nothing when you're losing in melee. Casualties are a modifier to a combat resolution roll, not to the dark angels leadership characteristic, so DA actually have zero protection from running out of melee.No prime trait in the game comes close to the strength of legion traits which DA is missing. Offered +1 attack on one model or +10-20 attacks by being WE not DA? WE is literally always more useful. Entire unit striking first as EC or +1 attack on one character for being DA? EC is always better. Salamanders getting +1 attack on characters like DA because their weapons are forgecrafted? Oh, they also only get wounded by thunderhammers and lascannons on 3+ and don't get panic'd by flames. Incredibly better than DA. Entire 10-20man NL unit strikes first and hits you on 3+ and you hit them on 5+ with the survivors because your unit had any status on it? Monumentally shits on every prime trait. WS giving practically your whole army 3" extra movement because it doubledips setups? Mind-blowingly better than any prime trait. 10+ dudes in each unit getting +1 strength from blood angels? Prime traits are dogshit in comparison.The detachments DA gets do fucking nothing. A slot to buy a 3rd rapier battery instead of 2? Well you still have to spend the 195 extra points and a prime does nothing for rapiers. Meanwhile DG rapier batteries each instantly do +50% more damage than dark angel ones by staying damage 3 while moving into sight of the enemy, and unlike DA for Zero points.DA don't actually have good equipment. Terranics are simply inferior to hammers. Meanwhile, Salamanders, NL, SW and IW weapons are stronger than TH in addition to not lacking a legion trait.
>>96860566screenshotting your own post is retarded, anon
>>96860567>Meanwhile DG rapier batteries each instantly do +50% more damage than dark angellmfaoYea man, that 4" move really enables JSJ. Absolute sped.
>>96860581That isn't my post.
>>96860567>DA trait is very far the worstYea, no shit, its why they get the best detachments.
>>96860274single LC are never worth buying. A pair of lightning claws is actually worth only +10 points if you read units that can buy them, so it's a total scam that single LC also cost +10 points for 2 attacks instead of 4 attacks of some assault guy with a pair of them.
>>96860274make him a shitty slap together lightning claw for the other arm by gluing some extra combat knifes to his hand and painting them like the lightning claw. get fancy if you want and put some cables attached to the knives.
>>96860567>Well you still have to spend the 195 extra points and a prime does nothing for rapiersWhat you DONT have to do is buy another command slot to get an extra detachment. The ability to spam the most powerful units - and save on the command tax - is where the power comes from.
>>968605834 inches is a hell of a lot more than the 0 inche anyone retarded enough to play dark angels is stuck with which means tanks can literally always park out of sight of DA rapiers and force them to take the -50% damage penalty every single turn.As you've never even played 3E I'll try to help you out - vision was changed so if you see a single model you can hit the entire unit, this means it's zero decrease in damage if you step 4" sideways around a building and can only see 1 enemy model (unlike in 2nd where your rapiers would only kill that single visible enemy)I know it might be hard trying to imagine positioning to move around a corner and get vision without 20 inches of movement for someone as mentally handicapped as you are, but it's a skill you could develop if you work at it.
>>96860652>4 inches is a hell of a lot more than the 0 inchDicklet detected. 4 inches is still nothing no matter how hard you cope.
Anyone have a link to the Ashes of the Imperium leak?
>>96860642the problem with your incorrect argument is that by being dark angels your units are automatically inferior to non-DA units which can have both superior weapons + line/vanguard DA lack + a legion trait, putting them 3 steps ahead of dark angels.
>>96858035I've played 9 games with my Dark Angels and the trait hasn't come into play a single time
>>96860642>The ability to spam the most powerful unitsWhat most powerful units? Deathwing Companions are cool, but other legions do all those other units so much better because they actually have rules that support them?
>>96859888anon I don't know what GW would have to do, bar removing jetbikes and speeders from the game to make my army more unplayable , then it is now.
Did the negative traits for legions in 1.0 create feel bad situations for players? How did this affect army building?
>>96860372Maybe let not just units, but detachments with attached characters that unlocked it to deep strike? Of course all those units would need to have deep strike as a rule or all come in pods.
>>96860873feel your pain choggo. miss the feel of the space wind when I ride my space hog
>>96860900it affected GW by people not buying stuff. So they created an edition with 3.0 that doesn't really entice you to build a terminator or bike army. Instead you need to have everything. Good for armies and builds whose theme is "everything". Not so good for those that aren't that.
>>96860901Flavor wise and rules wise I don’t see the problem with this at all.
>>96860920I just feel bad for players that have cool themed armies that are rendered obsolete because of rules. If someone shows up to a game for 3.0 with a drop pod army….im gonna let him deep strike everything turn one as in old rules and we go from there.
>>96860917It is okey. I was angry for a few months, now am in a "it is what it is" phase. Invested too much to leave, at the same time building a new army would take me 3 years. So I would potentialy be fucked for 4th, while not being able to play in 3ed. Sometimes I think that people are just happy then other people armies are gone or became unfun. It is like they like the fact that other people are not having fun. I kind of a get it, but when I was starting I was being told that it isn't what the hobby is about. And that it is only seen in dreaded eastern europe.
>>96860957My heart bleeds for those poor fury of the ancients players out there.
>>96860921Considering stupid me came to this idea, and GW GW came to the conclusion that maybe a single dread detachment is a bit much of a nerf, I am suprise they didn't print out some sort of "rapid ingres" detachment that requires a terminator or jump pack HQ to unlock.
>>96860668This thread doesn't even have actual scans of the core material, just dogshit blown out and crooked ones. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
>>96860966exact same boat. sucks to lose the edition lottery. desu I'm not even that hot on 3.0. this might be the first edition I totally skip and just work on things that are cool (because it'll change in 2.5 years anyway)
>>96860969My friend had an army like that 2 leviathans, 5 contemptors for shoting, 5 for melee some techmarines . But he can at least still play his army, he just has to upgrade his techmarines. Our other friend who build and imperial fist tank company just can not play his army. He has 0 infantry of any kind, including characters. And funny thing out of all of us, he was the most hyped, because of the new super heavy tank. Now I am not even sure if he ordered it.
>>96860567>DA actually have zero protection from running out of melee>The Check uses the majority Leadership of the Unit under that Player's control in the Combat. >the difference between the Combat Resolution Points totals of the winning Player and the losing Player is applied as a negative modifier to the result of this Leadership Check>Models with this Special Rule may never have their Leadership Characteristic modified to less than 6.the highest chance of a DA unit running after losing a Combat is 58%the highest chance of any other unit running after losing a combat is 97%a unit with Ld2 after losing a combat is 93% more likely to run away than a DA unit on Ld6
>>96860969Can’t they technically bring the full list of dreads? Just max out on officers?
>>96861060yeah they just spam the detachment with 3 dreads. Now they do face the problem of dreads being not that good,aside for the castaferrum that you can't buy anymore lol. Now in my naive mind I would like to think that "melee" dreads should have ws5 and "shoty" dreads should have BS5, because otherwise the castaferrum is always point for point a better platform. But the realist in me just tells me, that GW is just going to remove castaferrums, as a fix to them being better then other dreads
>>96861135Actually that’s a great idea. Does that break the game? What about the same for leviathans with two melee weapons? Or two guns? What about BS5 Saturnine dread? Thoughts?
>>96861060Easily with the Mortificator detachment, 3 give you 9 contemptor slots. A Praetor with 3 Morts, and a centurion or two gives enough dreadnought slots. Armoured Company needs mechanized infantry to work and will probably stay that way until they do a Tallaran journal. Bike armies you can still technically run legally, they just can't interact with objectives and will auto lose unless you play kill points with blackshield rules.>>96861003Gutting options and flavor was the worst sin of HH3. It lines up with their corporate plan, but I think they completely missed the whiplash players would feel going from "Here is some resin and rules go figure it out" for 13 years to "Here are the armies you're allowed to play. We'll be over here to make sure you don't do anything not allowed"
>>96861043You're wrong btw
>>96861158Only thing I worry about is the stuff they do to other games. You build an army, maybe it isn't a very theme specific or the theme is "all comers" and then GW comes and tells you that because they no longer produce Reacons/Seakers and Scouts those unit are out of the game.
>>96861158How do you make bikes more viable to objective play? Or do we not understand how they should be used?
Post wip models. This one is part of my first command squad
>>96861226They've already done that with the base Libers and the supplemental stuff they re-added. It's just in 40k it happened over 6 years and 3 editions, but HH they skipped the drip feed and just gutted everything without the tapering off.>>96861276Either pic related or using them as melee squads to tie stuff up. Aside from Reapers, I don't really know how they should be used in a way that doesn't make you feel bad for having them instead of something else.
>>96861135>castaferrum that you can't buy anymore lol.Recasting is vital to preserving classic models
>>96861367See I only knew that they did that in AoS and w40k. Well I guess same old stuff. Maybe I will just build models and no longer play. Who knows maybe even learn to paint.>>96861369I do not like resin stuff, but that does not equate to you being wrong. I just don't like that whole "spam cheap stuff and play with MSU" way of playing. All GW games somehow end up degenerating in to that.
>>96861369The venerable kit is available even of it's a bit fancy for 30k. Resin might suck bit single piece dreadnought weapons should be fine.
>>96861367I wanna see the return of jink type saves as a reaction
>>96861530That's awful
Are Contemptor and Leviathan heads the same size? What about the Saturnine?
>>96861616Saturnine is larger for sure.I dom't thi k leviathan and contemtor are the same but you could probably still exchange them.
>>96858594the problem is +1 leadership is essentially already the legion trait for iron warriors and anytime wordbearers lose combat, their trait is essentially +1 leadership yet again.3rd edition's set of legion traits is shitty game design. Most of the good ones were simply ripped from 2nd edition, and the new 3rd edition ones are trash.
>>96861616Levi heads are bigger
>>96857967>Saturnine Terminators are heavy assault suits designed by Vulkan>Their heavy weaponry and bulk would imply usefulness for siege warfare, a la Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists>Being at least partially psychic is a requirement, which would skew toward Thousand Sons, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves>The Legion to get a designated special Saturnine Terminator unit is... the Word BearersBut why?
>>968613383k Worth of BA, also has like 30 old schook mk2 assault marines.
>>96861684
>>96861684probably as simple as the commy brits at GW corporate saw on a spreadsheet that WB has no terminator squad unlike all 17 other legions so it's only fair for them to be given the new hotness terminator squad first.
>>96861684In all honesty, I think its super kino to imagine actively mutated Saturnine, possessed marines in their tank armor mutating, cant wait to see the conversions people do.
>>96861728Which is actually really good reasoning and I thank them for its, it's what I've wanted since 1.0
>>96861338First day working on the Mhara Gal. I figured I'd get the hardest model out of the way first but outside of some smaller spaces it hasn't seemed too bad. Still a lot of to do.
So I play world eaters, Despoilers are just awful this edition, are there any tricks people have to make them better? Right now I'm running two ten mans in rhinos with an apothecary and a centurion in one and a blood surgeon and a legion champion in the other. Problem is that unless they are fighting actual chaff, they feel like completely useless chaff.
>>96861780>unless they are fighting actual chaff, they feel like completely useless chaff.My brother in Christ they're Despoilers, they're job is to bully scoring units off objectives so they can take it for themselves not to fight with elite melee units or Terminators, you have the rest of your army for that
>>96861649WB is +1 combat res so it also affects their win threshold, but only works in combat.IW ignore neg modifiers so a ld buffs would actually make DA better at holding in mele.Now I'll agree in saying that it's a boring "in between" yet usefull rule, but anything other than that will cause tantrum amongst those people who field tacticals with nothing but Vulkan and kratos (or whatever the meta might be) while calling the first legion BS.But Loyalty is its own reward and stormwing is based.
>>96861780I feel that, my despoilers feel trash as well. Are you playing the hereticus or normal? Because you can play regular, then have your blood surgeon still let them lose themselves to the nails for +2 attacks on the charge which helps. Also with world eaters, because your apothecaries can get gladiator weapons, give them the flesh hook ones, you get 3-4 attacks at initiative 5, if any of them wound the enemy unit is -1 strength for the rest of the game, which is actually pretty good for helping your despoilers survive longer. Your basically using your despoilers as chaff killers and ablative wounds for your heroes, so make sure they are strong as fuck since they will carry your fights.
>>96861541*pops smoke at u*
played a game as daemonsyeah they fucking suck
>>96861649>these mass-produced super-soldiers seem undifferentiated!
>>96861817the problem is half the entire list of traits are no meaningful impact and completely samey.Hell, some are simply a straight direct downgrade. Scars trait is 1"-3" superior than spacewolves in 100% of situations (1" better if both get 12" from enemy, 3" better if scars gets 12" from enemy and wolves slow movement fails, 2" better if neither can get within 12" of the enemy) due to WS making units setup 1" more as well because it crosses all the thresholds even for heavy terminators.
>>96861868>surely there's no difference between a World Eater and a Thousand Son, they're both wearing the same suit!You are legitimately a mental retard.
>>96861852Jesus christ what a horrifying image, 3.0 has doomed us
>>96861852I've been crossing my fingers that a journal fixes them, because the daemon rules are some of the worst GW has ever made in 25 years, literally.And anathemata psyker tree is entirely irrelevant, the worst psychic tree in game and does zero to make daemons any good. Word bearers themselves who had great synergy with daemons in 2nd now have exactly zero. Erebus himself does fucking nothing for daemons - his ability "you can buy a shitty detachment of shitty brutes (and no actual good daemons EVER) without taking an esoterist" isn't even anything whatsoever, it's a bag someone opened and took a steaming turd inside.Lorgar used to rightfully be able to summon greater daemons after he fully embraced chaos (rightfully, as he was the most powerful demonologist primarch and even frightened Horus after he'd adopted his psychic powers post-istvaan) Now literally no link to daemons at all.
>>96861852Anon, you played mostly infantry vs fat tanks and nothing but TS self healing saturine suits, what in the actual fuck is that match up? I think most lists would struggle vs that unless you countered it directly..... bloody hell my guy
>>96861900at least the terrain is painted and there are no clear acrylic ruins
The problem with Dark Angels was that they clearly thought that the extra detachments were going to be such a game changer that they could have a very weak legion rule as a balance, and it turns out that while the detachments are kinda nice, I would use like half of them, they don't make up for just not having anything base. Its a wasted opportunity, because if they wanted Dark Angels to be all about bring the wing detachments, actually make them rewarding for it. What they SHOULD have done, was make the Hexagrammaton be the extra detatchments and keep the Dark Angel wing buffs, or at least give them special designed prime buffs or what not but tied them to specifically the units in their dedicated detachments and the hero that unlocked them, and make sure the player is still told to model their heroes to match their wing like before. So you still got +1 on your bolter shots, but only in stormwing detatchment, either for all squads in the stormwing detatchment or for the prime unit, it doesn't really matter to me. You still got the movement buff for ravenwing, but only on units in that detatchment, if you have a ravenwing hero unlock them. You would have to adapt some of the wing rules, they dont even need to be really that strong, just more rewarding then a bad leadership modifier that doesn't work correctly, instead we use our detatchments and just get 2-3 extra prime slots with the same prime rules as everything else. Even with them the only ones that really add value are the Deathwing and Ravenwing, because getting prime on those units is intersting. The only thing that I enjoy in the new Dark Angel rules is the exindo, which can now challenge which I find funny as fuck and is half the cost it was before. I guess Deathwing Companion terminators are bonkers with eternal warrior 1, but your just more boring Inner Circle, but if I bring Inner Circle they are so expensive for a unit without vanguard.
>>96861813In 1st and 2nd it was fun to play like Orks and while sure, I'm not just picking up terminators, I could still drag them down through 40-80+ weight of dice with my big old hordes of despoilers, but now they just feel so bad. >>96861821The barb-hook is actually some really nice tech, I'll try it! Didn't realize I could use the surgeon in the normal rules, that helps a lot!
>>96861908and WHY THE FUCK is the worst psychic discipline in game +40 points for Word Bearers and only available to High Command not regular Command?! Doesn't make a single fucking shred of sense.You have to risk stunning or mortally wounding your expensive high commander and set his whole unit to initiative 1 via status, to... help pass a reserve roll for daemons that suck balls to come in (and be unable to charge anything)Anathemata isn't anywhere near the ballpark of biomantic rage at +20 points giving +2S/+2T. It should've been 10-15 points, not 40.
>>96861852I heard book 8 malevolence has the best daemon rules
>>96861981What in your opinion do you think despoilers need?
>>96861910actually they werent self healing, they were the ones with stoneform reaction which didnt do anything because I had no shooting
>>96862036The easy answer is giving back the +1 attack for having a pistol and weapon, but thats not happening. The real answer is the same as second, fix the weapon skill chart back to how it was in 1st edition, where being ws 4 vs ws 5 meant you hit on 4s while they hit on 3s, instead of how it is in 2nd and 3rd where you now hit on 5s while they hit on 3s, that single dynamic is too game warping.
>>96861942Thats fucking retarded anon."you only got the movement buff for ravenwing for the ravenwing detachment"as opposed to the terminators who would normally benefit?The advantage of the detachments is that they are better detachments than what everyone else gets, with more access to rare slots (support/elites/retinue) and prime slots than everyone else.
>>96862096Yeah, and slightly less shitty detachments still feels like shit because its the detachment system."Yay, your army benefit is making the same kind of shit as every other dark angel player because the only real benefit to playing them is spamming slightly better detachments" what fun...
>>96862086I am in agreement that models should get bonus for charging and having additional cc weapons. I think the old WS chart is great or even TOW WS chart. Honestly I don’t understand why people are so vocal about it. Maybe keep 3.0 charge rules to balance it out?
>>96858561This are so ugly what the fuckIs that what the "infamous knight heads" talks are about?
>>96862115If you have a unit of 20 despoilers in first edition, you charge a veteran unit, under the first edition WS chart you got 60 attacks, 30 hits. Under 2nd, you got 60 attacks, 20 hits, you lost 10 dice, and guess what, those elite units you used to be able to kill a couple models of through sheer weight of dice... they are all 2 wounds now, so you need DOUBLE the amount of dice, while getting less hits. Now your 20 despoilers are only getting 40 attacks, roughly 13 of them hitting, and there are more multi wound or WS 5 units running around. Its so mathematically bad it turned melee in 2nd edition in "your ws5 or you dont matter", and 3rd made the math so retarded any marine melee unit with WS 4 is an actual waste of points. The 3.0 charge rules are even worse, because unless they let you get close enough you can set up to avoid volleys, your opponent gets a free overwatch into you, killing your guys before you even swing, further lowering your hits. Every single change has made using assault squads, despoilers, destroyers, even vanilla terminator squads, anything WS 4 is abysmally bad because the moment they touch a ws5 unit they hit like pathetic noodles. In 1.0, having a higher weapon skill was a damage boost for your unit, in 2.0 they decided to keep the damage boost and make it a defensive boost as well for no goddamn reason.
>>96861616Contemptors and levi heads are the same iirc
you know, I always struggle to place tactical support squads into my armyI just never see the use? beyond something like a plasma or melta squad, but then I think they're too weak defensively and it puts me off
>>96862170its almost like WS5 is a skill check paper, scissors, rock, and throwing basic bitch troops at close combat dedicated vet units will have draw backs, kind of like how it is presented in all the fluff as well. What an unusual thing huh?
>>96859178It’s disgusting, my legion are beautiful, aryan gods and GW shafts them for dysgenic curs like Perturabo’s hideous, disgusting monsters.What happened on Terra was an act of love for the populace, it was consensual.
>>96862234That's not a rock paper scissors, that's just only paper and scissors existing dumb fuck. Before you had an ability to make up for weaker weapon skill with mass attacks, there was a reason assault squads and despoiler squads could be 20 man, because it gave you the raw amount of attacks to let you cause damage on even terminator units. So your 10 man assault squads and despoilers could bully other basic units just fine, but get beat up by better veteran units, but veteran units still had to think a bit or coordinate shooting to soften up 20 man bricks before charging in, because it was a shit ton of attacks coming their way. THATS a healthy dynamic, veterans having to watch out because while they won even fights better, they could be outnumbered.
>>96862234Using his first example wouldn’t that be slightly negated by increasing the wounds of specialist units? Didn’t most units still have only 1 wound?
>>96862320They did back in 1st, that's part of my point, you have the WS chart get worse AND the elite units doubled in wounds.
>>96862314That’s how I understood it. Now that I think about it, wouldn’t this incentivize players to take more than the bare minimum strength units I see all the time with posted lists?
>>96862314why you so mad about despoilers and WS5 anon, are you personally invested? do you not attach beat stick chrs or buffs? or is it that pushing 20man blobs since 1st edition no longer working and you can't or wont adapt out of pure tism spite?
>>96862027hard to beat 1.0 desu
>>96862344I’m not the guy that you’re responding to but giving an incentive to bring 20 man blobs in a setting where marines are at their height seems big time fluffy. The elite units still come out on top on average in those fights and now with volleyball fire, depending on what units/fire arms are being used can still be in their favor.
>>96862340Nah, because the math is so bad, your literally wasting points with 20 man despoilers or assault squads. Like, a 20 man assault squad, slamming into a ws5 squad is putting out like 40 attacks, 10 of which are power weapon attacks (power axe in this case) you end up with 10ish normal hits, 3-4 power weapon hits. Of those you end up with 5 wounds, 3ish power weapon wounds against power armor vets, your killing like 2 of them, against terminators your killing 1 terminator if your lucky.That's with a 250pt squad, and assuming they get the charge, they all get in to swing, and lose no members to volleys or shooting. With that level of bad, save the points, bring tactics to sit on objectives and invest in better ws5 units. Its clear that GW just dont play the game with those units while testing. >>9686234420 man blobs haven't been good since 1st, that's the whole point dick lips. And yeah, a world eater player who wants to play assault squads and despoilers WOULD be personally invested.
one of the big misses of this edition is that you're not paying a small unit tax. it should cost more points to bring more squads instead of padding out a unit and making it big. heresy battles are all about big squads duking it out
>>96862421Thanks for the reply. In my error I meant if people were to port the bonus for charging etc that would incentivize for 20 mans and wouldn’t necessarily hesitate at 60 attacks into ws5 with the old chart. I like some of 3.0 and I think with some changes like we have discussed could make it stand out. Just a thought.
>>96862421I'm begging you to stop wasting your time here and take all your money to a casino right away
>>96861852> Unpainted trash everywhereYou also suck
>>96862334it's a real whammy.WS chart not fixedelite units doubled in woundsartificer armor removed from 3+ troops but elites keep 2+ armorcharge bonus removal means -20 attacks for 20man troops and only -10 attacks for a squad of eliteschainswords massively nerfed (went from reroll all wounds to gimped shred) which hits troops, while elites are just buying thammers or pairs of claws, etc.bayonets made entirely useless nerfing troop melee but irrelevant to elite squadsspite of the legion removed to nerf melee troops (bolter troops keep heart of the legion and bolters get buffed)sweeping advance deleted from game, which removes one of the only ways for chainsword troops to actually delete elites or shooty hordes. Now even if you defeat tacticals in melee your chainswords deal tickle damage and the game can end before chainswords kill one squad of bolters. before skill was rewarded, if a squad broke and ran and you'd positioned things so there was no way for them to run, they'd all be wiped out. And if they hit the edge of battlefield they'd leave. Now even if you herd them all the way to their own edge of the battlefield in a 4 turn long game, they touch it and get a leadership test to suddenly no longer be running.3E variety is in the toilet because they're ruined melee troops and deepstrike/flanking and cavalry, leaving nothing but elite melee with power weapon gimmicks either in transports or jetpacks. It's pretty much entirely one dimensional and boring now.
>>96862314This mostly seems to be a Space Marine problem, I'll be honest, I have seen 9 WS4 Ursarax run clean over 10 WS5 power fist vets. It does kind of suck that the holdout power weapons don't have the attritional effects that they did in 1e, I agree there. My headhunters have no real use for their daggers besides tac squad cleanup.
>>96859693Metallica had some Blackshield-ish elements too who just went their own way when they heard the Heresy happened and couldn't get orders from the Forge. Lysandra never went black shield or traitor at all so I don't know what you are smoking there. Tritonis is based but they got crushed
>>96859575It's cool if they are well painted and cringe if they are unpainted or look like shit
>>96861813but anon, everybody bubble wraps their objectives with terminators? to stop the tacticals from getting to them
I had the cool ass idea for a Blackshield herald replacing the aquila heads with bird skulls from the box 'o skulls but it only really works off the resin herald and I'm not putting in a second order to chinaman for just one guy after making a big bulk order.
>>96862941add more places for bird anon
>>96862825Come on anon, you can't bubble wrap an objective or you can't easily retreat off of it to deny all vanguard points ever.
>>96863010I was gonna fucking do this but it didn't make sense for me and now that I have this cool ass idea I want to but I just spent two hundred dollars on crap and I DO want to try and save up for this mortgage.
>>96863080Sorry you got laid off but HA HA you forgot the picture.
Almost finished with this lot, just need to let the bases dry overnight and apply decals.amazing how much fast things you paint when you lose your job>>96863084CURSE YOU AND YOUR INCREDIBLY INCONVENIENT POSTING SPEED
>>96863096I'm just that good
>>96860566>>96860594Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.
>>96859408She's ngubu african thoughever
>>96860668>>96806610
>>96861135dreads should never be WS5 actually. WS5 means they're delicate agile things that are hard for WS4 to hit.If anything dreads should be WS3 but have a special rule "Collateral Blows - due to the size of destruction involved, the model never hits on worse than a 4+ in melee"They'd be less gimped than current WS4 dreads against elite squadss, but not ruin the already handicapped WS4 despoilers and WS4 terminator squads.
>>96863297or having dreads be WS5 but have the Red Butchers 'Ravening Madmen' rule (enemies treat you as WS3 during their attacks) to do the same outcome.
>>96860561>cost like cata command squads (their closest and most common equivalent)Their closest equivalent is other elite terminators like Justerian you dumb fuck, command squads are an entirely different force org slot, what kinda retard are you? >perform as well into terminators as they ever didWho the fuck cares, your not taking them to kill terminators, your taking them, and the 200+point land raider you need to deliver them, to take objectives... oh wait, they fucking suck because they don't have any way to score points! >No you retard, those have different numbers restrictions and have eternal warriorThey also are LITERALLY a command squad, in the proper role for it dumbass, designed to be one, and also "just" ws5 cata terminators, even have access to the same terranic greatswords.
>>96863335>Their closest equivalent is other elite terminators like Justerian you dumb fuckSo something most(?) legions dont have, and where they out-perform almost all their competitors in the actual killing? Gotcha. >b-but no vanguardAnd?>command squads are an entirely different force org slotYoure right! Command squads have a worse slot, because retinue is less flexible than the elite slots you can use to take cenobium, meaning an army vanguard detachment (if you arent just using your deathwing detachments for them) is better than the retinue one.
>>96863297The more WS is brought up the more older WS charts should never have changed
Alright I'm getting 3 word bearers contemptors to go with my mortifactor: one double plasma, one with a claw and a chainfist, and missile launcher, and one with a Fist and some gun arm: what should the gun arm be? Currently I'm thinking kheres or volkite just for rule of cool
>>96863527Volkite
>>96863401"Spend 5-600 points on a unit that literally cannot score you victory points, dont worry, the other units in its class get the same killing powers AND Vanguard 4-5" Lol, you dumb idiot, again, its not about killing terminators, its about spending a quarter to a fifth of your entire army on a unit and its transport that cant score you victory points while comparable options can, its a game changing difference. >because retinue is less flexible than the elite slots you can use to take cenobiumYes, so stop comparing command squads to a unit like cenobium like a retard, and compare cenobium to what they are Fun fact, cata retinues SUCK, because guess what? They dont have Vanguard too. Spending 400-600 points on a squad, the hero, and the transport for them, just to score nothing on the mission is retarded in 3rd. Just bring better shooting units or a squad with vanguard.
>>96863545Good point however the enemy cannot win if you simply delete all his scoring units
>>96863572You could also do that by killing their scoring units, with vanguard units, thus doing both. There are way cheaper options then overspending on a terminator unit that is missing the valuable keyword that makes the unit type useable.
