Previous thread: >>96867326GURPS is a modular, adaptable system, capable of running a wide range of characters, settings, and play styles, with a level of detail varying from lightweight to completely autistic.Optional rules allow you to emulate different genres with a single system, or even switch genres within a single game.A nearly complete archive of GURPS books can be found by using the image (follow the URL to get to a folder with some files, read the files to get to the archive). Never post direct links to the archive anywhere in plain text.If you're wondering where to start:- The Basic Set covers everything, including a lot of optional rules you probably won't use.- A genre guide can be found in the archive, under Unofficial/GURPSgen. It tells you what extra books and articles you may find useful for many common genres.- How To Be a GURPS GM is a good read even for players.- GCS (gurpscharactersheet.com) is an excellent character-builder software, with page references to all the books and the option to export to both Foundry and Fantasy Grounds.Thread Question: Given that the revised Basic Set is adding 27 pages of new or updated material, what one specific optional rule or mechanic would you include (or remove), and why would that change or improve playability for your campaign style?
>>96927927Combat Maneuvers GURPS v9
>>96927927Combat Resolution GURPS v12
>>96927927>>96927953
>>96927927>>96927963
Is there a particular point value where GURPS tends to fall apart? I put together a sort of martial arts action movie hero and he came out to like 600 points. I probably could have done it for a lot cheaper, since I gave him tons of techniques; but it got me wondering about the limits of the system.
>>96929005
>>96929005Around 500-1,000 points you start to see an unbridgeable gap between highly efficient builds (e.g. mage with standard magic, hundreds of spells at skill 20, ultra-fast FP recovery, etc.) and inefficient ones (e.g. ST-based 'brick'). The former can handle everything the latter can, while also having a lot more options. If you are quite restrictive about what builds are allowed, it can remain (sort-of) 'balanced' up to a few thousand points.At the lower bound, it works well to maybe negative a hundred points or so before things get awkward (e.g. utterly dysfunctional humans, creatures too small for the damage system to work properly, sub-human intelligence).
>>96927953Do not add Retreat to the description of the maneuvers. You convey that you can retreat during your turn. Only mention it when you lose access to it.If you're referring to a Step, don't also call it 1-yard or 1-hex. You're both repeating yourself and omitting that steps can be more than 1-yard long. Move 20+ is extremely rare I know, but still you should pick one.Your concentrate description could say "if interrupted or injured" instead. The background continues to suck ass since distracted is harder to read.On feint you say "to try" and "if it works". Cut one out.The AOA Strong bonus applies to all attacks according to MA109. Basic was a simplification at the time.I continue to give you feedback because I would also appreciate it for work I did. But even the trivial mistakes are pissing me off.>>96899996I'll give you the Tactical Shooting point but>And lowering your posture to armpit height reduces your speed by a third? Lowering your stance when running at full tilt isn't that uncommon.You can't be this disingenuous or retarded to compare a crouch with the knees bent to a sprint. Fuck off.
>>96932427>Move 20+ is extremely rare I knowDon't you get a 2-yard step at Move 11?Basic Set, p. 368:>You may step a distance equal to 1/10 your Move, but never less than one yard. Round all fractions up. Thus, Move 1-10 gives a one-yard step, Move 11-20 gives a two-yard step...Move 11 is within the range of real people (unless you rule that world-record sprinters have Enhanced Move), albeit fairly extreme. With non-human and superhuman characters it could be unremarkable.
>>96931924>creatures too small for the damage system to work properlyI wanted to play a game with my friend about bug characters but couldn't figure out how to make them in GURPS. I have no idea how to do it.
>>96932744One option is to just change the scale, like how GURPS suggests handling giant monsters and battleships but in reverse. As far as the game rules are concerned, the bug average is ST 10 and characters use the normal ST rules when operating on the scale of bugs: bug-to-bug combat, toting bug-sized goods, swinging bug-sized weapons, etc. It’s only when they stumble into an encounter with a grossed-out human with *actual* ST 10 that the bug’s true ST of 0.1 matters.Another option is whatever the hell they suggest in the article “When We Were Very Small” from one of the Alternate GURPS issues of Pyramid. I’ve never looked into it, but IIRC it’s all about handling very low-ST characters, though for all I know it might bottom out at, say, housecat-sized creatures rather than bug-sized.
>>96932744there was a pyramid article that covered it, I forgot which one, but you basically treat the scores as if they were closer to 10 instead of whatever tiny value it was. Basically, don't both scaling things down if everyone on the field is gonna be the same size.
>>96932843pyramid 3/34.
>>96932744If all the characters are small, just shift the scale so that ST 10 is a typical character. See GURPS Bunnies and Burrows for an example of this.For example, a housefly weighs about 7-12 mg while an ant might be 1-5 mg. If you want a typical bug character to be about 6 mg (0.000013 lbs.) then that translates to a GURPS ST of 0.05. Multiply all ST scores by 200 to put that in the middle of the scale. Since basic lift scales at the square of ST, you need to divide it by 40,000 to stay consistent. Note that this still allows characters to lift 200 times more relative to their body weight; you may need to scale it back again to account for the feeble limbs and weak muscles of arthropods (they don't need to be built like vertebrates due to the square-cube law).
All this talk of small character is reminding me; what would you set the ST and size modifier of a fairy to? Say about the size of picrelated.
>>96933520Pixies have official stats on Dungeon Fantasy 3 p. 9.
>>96933520In general, just divide the height of the small humanoid by normal human height, then multiply that by 10 to get racial ST.This assumes the same build and gives a semi-realistic strength-to-mass ratio (i.e. a ST 10, 1:10 scale character would be able to lift 10 times as much relative to their own mass, because their BL is 1/100 of a ST 10 human's, but their mass is 1/1,000).If you want them to be only able to lift as much as a human actor using screen-trickery would, then you need to multiply their ST by the square root of the scaling factor. For example, a half-scale character (about 3' tall) would usually have ST 5, but to restrict them to lifting only things which weigh 1/8 of what a human could, you need to divide their ST by a further (square root of 2, or 1.414...) which brings them down to ST 3.5355... rounded up to ST 4.For some reason, Dungeon Fantasy goes in completely the opposite direction and makes small races much stronger than even the square-cube law would.Long story short, everyone under 10" is ST 1.
>>96934320>Long story short, everyone under 10" is ST 1.So my roughly 8" tall fairy is way over strength with ST 6, got it. Well I don't mind because she's supposed to be a helper capable of bandaging up the hero and it's fantastical by default given she's a magical fucking fairy.
>>96933562Keep in mind DF pixies are crazy strong for their size. Properly scaled they have a ST of 1 or 2.
>>96933562The flavor text for leprechauns states they're the strongest small race pound for pound but that's wrong, that title belongs to the pixie.
>>96935144I should also say, "properly scaled" meaning "realistically scaled". If that's not your game, then ignore it.
Counterpoint: Tinklebell is clearly able exert enough strength on a child to pull them around, and maybe even float with them for a bit, so clearly we shouldn't be looking at realistic size ST for fairies.
>>96933562I wonder if there are any downsides to replacing GURPS Fantasy races in my game with GURPS Dungeon Fantasy races?
>>96937533The main difference is that dungeon fantasy races don't pay points for "fluff" advantages like long lifespan that don't matter in the usual game that barely lasts 1 in-game year.
>>96939316Obviously, though, if you plan to have a longer campaign as contemplated in Lords and Ladies (Dungeon Fantasy 23 p. 4), you should add those advantages back in.
I've been playing a campaign where everyone (PCs and NPCS) takes a mortal wound at *-1HP (so -10 for someone with 10hp) and it's so much better.>players are actually more careful because they can't rely on 14HT to guarantee survival>NPCs and monsters die at appropriate times without hanging on too long due to HT checks and without the GM having to decide every time is this is a "worthy" enemy or notI get that it's realistic, but having dudes going to -50HP and beyond with the only penalty being dodge and move felt really ridiculous. >left arm cut off, riddled with bullets, but since the character still has a right arm, both legs and both eyes, the ability to parry and strike with a katana is completely fine.
>>96939410Going into negative HP would make most people give up unless they were literally fighting for their lives. Most fights shouldn't be to the death.
>>96939443>Most fights shouldn't be to the death.Yeah, tell the PCs that.And plenty of monsters will fight to the death. Sure your average orc and goblin will run away, but there's creatures with the berserk disadvantage, as well as stuff like golems and shit.Even if you, the GM decide that all the NPCs are gonna give up at negative HP, the player still get to keep fighting all the way to the negative hundreds.>b-but pcs should be smart enough to surrenderWhat if they're winning the fight, but one PC got hit? There's plenty of times I've seen one of the PCs get to -50HP and just not care because 14HT, the other two pcs were fine, and there was only a couple of monsters left, and they had healing magic.With my house rule, as soon as they get to close to 0 HP they actually start getting worried.
>>96939443>go over to a friend's yesterday for a beer>3d6 in back pocket just in case >get high>talk about shit, turns out he has a real-life choice to make>think here's my cue, pull out the dice, roll a 12 or less>he's like wtf? is left intrigued>bring up the possibility we could play something gritty and fun instead of boring irl bullshit>make up stats on the fly, walk him through two fights using a fighter first then a mage with fire balls>fumbles the first attack trying to use a Rapid Strike when it's uncalled for, the rolls shit on him>be fair but keep suspense pace>he kills everyone, argues the rolls, writes shit down on paper, like his ST and HP lol>first time DMingwent better than expected
picrel free token (small 3 meter-tall dragon)What does GURPS supplements have in the way of small dragons for stat blocks and lore?What happened this week's session >>96885081 ?
>>96939653GURPS Dragons has lots of lore, though I don't know about small dragons specifically. (Note that it's primarily Third Edition, but it was published just a few months before Fourth Edition, so it includes an appendix with Fourth Edition stats.)See also Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons.
>>96939672got it, thanks king
>>96939612I have run impromptu GURPS on a train ride in Germany. The kids in the seats in front were very intrigued by whatever the foreign uncles were up to
>>96939490Aren't unconciousness rolls penalized by the multiple of HP they're at? I know they're probably not gonna go down at -1x or even -2x HP, but -3 and beyond is a pretty real risk of them dropping especially when you roll it every turn.
>>96940247Yes. For enemies, this means unless the GM feels the need to give every single one 15 HT they should go down pretty quickly after being shot. For players, the best way to prevent them making this kind of build in the first place is to not have easily available healing options. When -40 hp means roughly 40 in game days to recover, people stop hitting it every combat.
>>96931924>ST-based 'brick'This is why I use Logarithmic costs for ST, HP, DR, TK, Binding, Control, Create, Innate Attack, and all similar abilities. A lot of traits (like Damage Reduction and Super Jump) have exponential scaling anyways. So it's only fair. I just set a limit (e.g., "ST no higher than 100", "DR no higher than 50", "Innate Attack no higher than 15d6") depending on the scope or power level of the campaign, and have rarely encountered any issues.
>>96940368>is to not have easily available healing options.That goes against certain genres like dungeon crawling fantasy. And that still doesn't increase the chance of death, just the tedium of recovery.Essentially you're going "don't go to low HP or you're gonna be bored for a long time" instead of "don't go too low HP or you might lose your character">Aren't unconsciousness rolls penalized by the multiple of HPYes, but falling unconscious just means you're out of the fight, not dead. A PC that is at -20 might as well keep fighitng if his two buddies who can heal him are just fine and there's only a few enemies.Meawhile, with my house rule, players starts retreating and using all-out defense the moment his HP is close to 0.
>>96940771My players simply didn't make a healerWe'll see how it goes
>>96932427so what you suggest, in kind of a formatted way is the following? :RETREAT:-remove Retreat in every move section of every maneuver-say you can't retreat in the Move And Attack maneuver and in the Do Nothing maneuver "if you are stunned"-keep the definition of Retreat in the Move maneuver because it is part of moving in GURPS and people will find it easily by reading the Move maneuver>You convey that you can retreat during your turnI never thought of it that way.STEPS ALLOWED:-agree with what you said I will remove the yards-will not mention 2 steps or hexes or even yards if you are fast enough as that will not be relevant to someone who needs a cheat sheet (but they can also help people who know the game, that's why I tried to stay thorough in Combat Resolution and not omit too many things in Combat Maneuvers)CONCENTRATE:-will read up on it because I am not sure about this step, whether or not a mage can concentrate and decide to take a hit without defending and accept a "free" injury in order to keep concentrating by just rolling Will-3, I have similar doubts about the Aim maneuver for range
>>96946655>The background continues to suck ass-take your ass down by one or two posts to get the black and white version, I could not fathom the idea of removing such a patrician piece of esthetic embellishment, besides the emotional significance it has in my discovery of the workings of Gimp and Inkscape-I'll push the black and white versions first from now on to hopefully mitigate your bitching (rolled 5 on 12 Carousing I can be sassy this round without adverse reactions)FEINT-sure I can change it, I like it the way it is thoughAOA STRONG:-Not going to mention any supplements or things that veer away from Basic Set to keep things basic and streamlined, while honestly hoping that MA does not change the basic concepts of Basic Set, but rather adds to it>I continue to give you feedbackyour help is very welcomed and appreciated>>96946238with Fantasy there is the health and fatigue potions at the magic shop route if the team has money
How do I describe a human taking 30 damage to the neck and surviving? (passed both HT checks to survive and stay conscious)At least vitals I can just say you nicked a lung and not the heart, and a skull I can say it it didn't reach the brain, but neck? I feel like any nick in the neck leads to quick death IRL.
>>96946658>>96946655>take your ass down by one or two posts to get the black and white versionI know. I'll continue to point out why it's bad regardless.>I never thought of it that way.>FeintEditing your work is a skill that rewards you for butchering your precious drafts.>AimYou lose your bonus if you interrupt it. Shock is the only punishment for getting hit while aiming. It's heroic by default.>ConcentrateLook at B236 where it says you roll Will-3 on both injury and interruption. Injury would also include shock. You could make two Will rolls by taking a defense, failing, and getting hurt. You need to convey that in your text.>Martial ArtsIt tends to clarify rather than overrule Basic, like the Strong thing and, for example, allowing Feint any time you can make an attack roll (like on a Rapid Strike) since AOA Double = AOA Feint.I think if you include Rapid Strike, the AOA Strong bonus to one attack description would be limiting. You do what you want but I think it's worth removing the limit.>>96947203See B423. At -20 HP he could fall into a coma if he fails any HT-2 roll. It's heroic that you may skip the roll by doing nothing.What injury modifier? A crushing major wound in Martial Arts and Bio-Tech gives you suffocation. Any other wound means you're bleeding profusely and will die in minutes.
>>96947224Just to clarify, I'm talking about me being the GM and describing what a PC did to an enemy. Like the PC aims for the neck, hits, deals 10 damage with a sword (becomes 20 injury) but the enemy survives the hit and passes the HT checks.Like how do I describe "yeah you hit him in the neck with your sword, but he's still alive and conscious" without sounding ridiculous?
>>96947233Could be the hit ripped down into the clavicle, trap muscle, upper chest and didn't cut the jugulars.The upper trapezius muscle on a strong specimen might do wonders in keeping the jugulars from getting hit. The wound will still be dramatic. Also clavicle (but can't say the hit broke it because that would be the equivalent of a crippled arm), upper chest below throat. These would seem to be dramatic wounds with still a couple minutes before bleeding out if treated in time.
>>96947233You can more or less just say "You hit him in the neck and he's still alive and conscious". Unless you're describing damage to the spine/nerves that's totally doable, plenty of videos of guys getting jabbed in the carotid and still staying in the fight for a good 10 or so seconds before crumpling, or people getting hacked in the neck by a machete before eventually giving in a couple minutes later. Within the timescale of GURPS combat it's not unrealistic or unreasonable for people to survive these blows at least until the end of the average combat.
>>96947407>>96947412Thanks, this does helps me to visualize it.
Does anyone remember if there was a limitation for Basic Speed that only affected initiative? I don't know if I'm making it up.
>>96947203>I feel like any nick in the neck leads to quick death IRL.Contrary to the cinematic trope of a simple slash to the front of the neck or quick twist taking people down instantly, it isn't always deadly, although it is one of the worst places to get shot or stabbed. The major blood vessels are buried quite deep, as are the important nerves. Artery walls are thick and tough, as is the trachea. The spine is tough and supported well by muscles. You can take a really messy wound to the neck and still only do real damage to muscle, bone, and tendon. Remember that 30 HP to the neck is like 20 HP elsewhere... although given that's still enough to sever a leg, maybe not realistically survivable.Anyway, a bad but survivable crushing blow to the neck probably means the large muscles near the spine were able to stabilise it, resulting in a huge bruise and 'whiplash' like issues. A lacerating or puncturing wound will probably make a hell of a mess, possibly severing a jugular vein, resulting in slow death by blood loss, maybe draining into the chest cavity. Alternatively, it might damage the trachea, resulting in suffocation. Muscles and nerves will likely be permanently damaged, resulting in scarring, loss of mobility, possibly chronic pain, or loss of sensation.
>>96948885Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Swashbucklers p. 22 has Blinding Strike, a perk that grants +1 to initiative. Power-Ups 9 p. 9 suggests that this can be generalized into +1.00 Basic Speed (initiative only, −80%) [1/level].
>>96947203I saw a video of a SE Asian trying to behead a goat or ram or something. He brought his machete down hard on its spine, and it just turned to face him and rammed him with its horns. And the countess of Salisbury was beheaded at the Tower of London by an inexperienced headsman. It took him eleven blows. But even if a powerful chop to the neck fails to immediately incapacitate someone, they will still be stunned, heavily bleeding, and likely knocked down. He's still taken a massive wound to the neck. So what could keep him fighting? His spine is intact and he's full of adrenaline. But a 30 HP cut to the neck is very likely more than 1/2 HP, which is a crippling injury to a limb. Twice that is dismemberment. You could apply that rule to the neck and give them a HT roll to avoid crippling and decapitation. If they succeed both, then they're just borderline inhuman.
