/bgg/ board game generalPrevious thread: >>97110766Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/h8Tz2ze8Survey results: https://pastebin.com/YJPZ44rqTQs:What is a game you love that you think doesn't get talked about enough?What's one thing you would change about the board game industry?Will you be bringing some party games to the office Christmas party?Ever had weird/bad social interactions while boardgaming?
>>97131449>>97131485Root is more of a racing game than Steampunk Rally.>3.1 How To Win>The first player to reach 30 victory points immediately wins the game.
Root is only in the discourse so much because its become memetic at this point by virtue of the art, ripping and simplifying mechanics that are usually too niche, infuencer push, and sneaky marketing. That so many discussions circle around it is bizarre and speaks to how easily an absolutely average in every-way-game (that is also factually broken) can become immensely popular when conditions are just right. Its surreal
>>97131901Me when I'm salty that my publisher didn't give my Magnum Opus cute animal meeples.
>>97131755>What is a game you love that you think doesn't get talked about enough?Invincible: the card game>What's one thing you would change about the board game industry?Their obsession with modern eurogames. I would eliminate that if I could.>Will you be bringing some party games to the office Christmas party?No. I don't go to the office.>Ever had weird/bad social interactions while boardgaming?Not particularly.
>>97131901>that is also factually brokenelaborate
kek
>>97131919Everdell and root are two games that would have been forgotten long ago if they hadnt cracked the code for your mentally fragile generation with the theming on top of mediocre systems
>>97131946I mean put simply it gives people who are mentally limited the ability to feel like they arent dumb as rocks and incapable of a medium complexity game, by giving them lots of slop to bicker about online and pretend theyre truly playing coins ans wargames
>>97131942Not him but only way to win is either through kingmaking or people not noticing you getting close to the win
>>97131998aka stay in 2nd place until the very end
just got 90% of my collection out but not sortedr8 & h8>it's smaller than I remember
>>97131953brutal
>>97132028least-regrettable friendghost/10
>>97132028Redpill me on Faiyum. It seems kind of neat even if the artwork is prototype tier
>>97132028Managing humidity i hope , good mix. Arctic scavengers hell yeah. And solid spacious shelves. 8/10 , well curated games list
>>97132028"I see you like my games, Anon. Wanna come to Germany to playtest my latest games?"
>>97131935>Invincible: the card gameshill me
KINO
>>97132109Aeon's End/Astro Knights reskin. It's a good game because the other games are good.
>>97131953Trvke.>>97131955I still think Renature would be top 200 on the 'lag if the animals had little shovels and watering cans.
>>97132109The next step in the Astro Knight series and the best game in the series. It's a snappy deckbuilder where you fight minions and bosses in the Invincible universe. The heroes have more personality than the previous games and their cards and powers are better. Really underrated game.
>>97131901If it makes you feel any better, Wandering Towers is more of a racing game than Root.
Radiance looks a bit sloppa
>>97132443i had the opposite impression. what makes you say that?
>solo>co-op>puzzly>engine-building>worker placement >many paths to victory >trick-taking>thinky>brain-burner>roll/flip-and-write>designed by a woman (female)>designed by Uwe Rosenberg
>>97132589>designed by a woman (male) not a red flag
>auction>area majority >elegant>cutthroat >beige>trains>designed by Wolfgang Kramer>>97132599I like Cosmic Frog
damn, forget baiting the hook, anon just threw in the entire fishing rod!
>>97132581lots of little effects you must remember to resolve spread across various phases: boss, shade, treachery cards, all the enemies, each location, and your position on the tracks
>>97131755My favorite bgg pic in a while. Love it when you can easily recognize them in the catalog.
>>97132613>I like Cosmic Frogyou the designer?
>>97132839Bruh there are several anons that have been enjoying it for years.And we all know the only hobby designer/celebrity that frequents /tg/ is Efka, so he can come up with the next topic or community to write a scathing essay about.
>>97132082A lot of neat mechanics, we played a lot at 3 and it seems pretty balanced with the sliding market and hand pick up. it's a bit fiddly with discounts coming out and the numbered market and all the types of cards (can I see the rulebook? every turn for several games) but everything works and IIRC the bonuses you buy and chase at the end game are fine. Generally you spend two resources to get the third with buildings, and the map gets pretty complex with workers, roads, farms and temples.The end game cards are random so you're very much playing "what can I do right now" or at best two turns as opposed to building towards some final event.If you like a lot of fiddly bits and looking up cards clarifications every turn it's a great game. It's ugly in a totally functional way. My group and my dad really like it, I'm not so hot. I mean it's perfectly functional but something like Tawantinsuyu is way more exciting and I guess less dry.
>>97132869He should be jailed for misrepresenting his videos. "The printing process for Carcassone" with an agape thumbnail of a homeless individual who hasn't showered or combed their hair in a month, and then it's 40 minutes about slavery within a 20km square region of africa for a 4 year period in the 1800s and why this person with zero academic or real world experience on topics of depth is proselytizing so vigorously about them. Typing it, it really is fucking wild that as a person with three degrees relevant to social issues, I have these weird fucks talking down to me in their videos instead of just telling me about the game
>>97132589>engine-building>worker placement
>>97131953who is the poster in that pic quoting? doesnt sound like a eurogamer, just sounds like a pretender pseudo-smart schmuck who wants to feel useful without being useful
>>97132895>(can I see the rulebook? every turn for several games)Gotta love cards that could have had text on them but don't.
>>97132958Why, its anon himself, patting his own shoulder and guffawing.
>>97132916Amen. Andromeda's Edge suuuuuuuucks.
>>97132962I adore Ortus for having those balls.Dont like the rules and want to errata? Just say so and teach the game that way, its not like the cards will contradict you.Ther is no garbage iconography to save space either. It revels in its art and helps bring the theme out even more.
>>97132589like any red flag, those can be false warningsMetal Gear Solid the Board Game, despite hitting 6 of those flags, is a solid game and a pretty good adaptation of the videogame to the tabletop form.i think whoever first started misusing the term "red flag" to mean "never ever touch with a 39.5 foot pole" is the stupidest person who ever lived on this planet, and I will forever hate them, and their cousin who popularized "i could care less" instead of "i couldn't care less"
>>97132916Genres for the conflict-avoidant
>>97133003>worker placement>conflict avoidanti pity you fools who have not seen the light of high conflict worker placement games yet
>>97133000>spoiler U getting trips and not me makes me literally want to kill myself. I cant even.
>>97133015Tuaregs mentioned.
>>97133029That is a Hansa down superior cover to the original.
>>97131953The theme and interaction ones are the ones that get me. People who only play modern euros have a really skewed idea of what those two words actually mean
97132589>having to think is red flagcome on
What is a good 2p game? I was hoping to get pax ren but it's still not being printed
>>97133003>>97132589you do realize a lot of people are sore losers and nobody wants to play a competitive game with them, right? specially if you actually know the person
>>97133123Mottainai
>>97133123I just posted one: >>97133029
>>97133123innovationcrispstag teamDC ForeverStar Trek Captain's Chair Baseball Highlights / Football HighlightsBattle for BiterniaMindbugFlickfleetPolis
>>97132589>soloThat’s my personal green flagt. Friendless anon
>>97133123Duel for Middle EarthMindbugUndaunted Normandy
>>97133123Brass Birmingham, Terraforming Mars, Oath
>>97133029Is there a new edition or is this just some localized edition?
>>97133224That's the Japanese version from like 2010 or something. The English cover still looks like this.
Anyone have any suggestions for dungeon crawler/RPG lite games like Warhammer Quest 1995?
>>97133123>2p onlyJaipur, Botanik, Lost Cities, Patchwork, boop., Patchwork, Blokus Duo, Marabunta, Star Wars Deckbuilding, Great Plains, Mandala, Gin Rummy>optimal or very good with 2Renature, Azul, Kariba
>>97133000from what I understand of talking with cis females over the years, despite what they might indicate otherwise, the predilection for three or more red flags apparently makes for a very desirable game, even if in the end it's not very good it's what they would rather bring to the table.
>>97128885So it would be worth while to strip down my Ra set and play Razzia! instead?
>>97133175too based for this board
>>97134295nice.
I loath worker placement in games. It's not an automatic "I will never play them" but it pretty much universally is just a mechanic to slow down the more interesting part of play.I really want to build a tower that will power my overall strategy, however, I need a little guy to stand in a spot for five turns or else I can't do shit.How the fuck is that fun or engaging? The only people who think worker placement is good shit are those who like screwing over worker placement to post-pone shit further. They are blue counter faggots of the board game world.
>>97133029Does this expansion elevate this game into being actually good? The base game I thought was simply... OK, really really overhyped by people who I don't think have played many 2 player games
>>97134560>he hasn't played Century New World
>>97134560I haven't played enough games of that kind but the ones I've played are just like "put your guy here and you'll get the resources at the end of your turn". They honestly function more like markers than actual workers. But I haven't played one where you had to wait 5 turns. Any examples of that?
>>97134573I always found targi to be mid af. No idea if I played with an expansion or not but why waste your money on trying to make a good game out of a bad base when there is
>>97134612>I always found targi to be mid af.As someone who enjoys thinking about what other players might do, Targi scratches my balls.
for those of you who buy games online, what's your favorite store?
>>97134646Amazon
>>97134646as a leaf, boardgamebliss
>>97134637thats just every 2 player game tho
>>97134665It's most 2 players games. But Targi has a large pool of options that dry up really quickly. There's always a lot to think through but none of the possibilities are ever so deep that you lose track of what you've already covered.
>>97134560What are your favourite games anon? Maybe it's less the mechanic and more the type of game that's a problem, your complaints seem kind of weird to me
>>97134660Shopped with them for years, since Bosco was hand signing invoices after no longer sleeping in meeplemart. Probably one of their earliest customers.Theyve gone so fucking downhillTrack prices and you'll see they collude with 401, the easiest giveaway is GMT games because of how they catalogue and update pricesAnd now theyve started going for the amazon of boardgames with SEO shit, so they constantly bring in ONLY ONE copy of anything niche just to make sure they come up when searching for the gameOpening up to USA customers and catering to them was the beginning of their endIt's sad how greasy they've gotten. No one saying "thanks :)" on my invoices for the last year or two is just icing
>>97134710do you have any alternative recomendations?
>>97134608Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar
Here's a thought:It's often been said that chess isn't fun. I am very much an amateur at it and never felt like going deep, but I think the problem isn't that the game isn't fun, but that you likely have to put in so very many hours of repeated plays and memorizing patters (either conciously or unconciously) until you come to a point where you can get creative or at least have the basis to be able to self-express. Point being - and this might be the case with a lot more games than I realize - playing at a higher level is a much more fun experience, and the real question is do you have the interest/stamina to get to that point
>>97134809so it's not fun for 99% of people. wonderful.
>>97134884I'm not saying that at all, though.
I've always thought of theme/art as an enhancement; a mechanically good game becomes great when the theme works, but a good theme can't save a bad game etc.Now I am faced with the fact that I really, really lose all interest in a game when it features antropomorphic animals. eg. Agent Avenue (terrible name btw) seems like an interesting small 2p game I likely will never play because I hate the art so much
>>97134744Honestly no for canadian retailers. I had close ties to all of them ten years ago but they all became morally bankrupt during covid. I rarely buy anymore so I just go wherever has the niche thing I want. Some of the smaller shops that do online retailing arent terrible , but as someone with insider info and a moral compass I dont touch anything in the gta if i can avoid itIts surreal how morally bankrupt the retailers are there and how theres like 200 in a 200km region>t. Person who supported my flgs asking 20% over online prices until the owner bought a 6 figure corvette and drove it into the mall to display for everyone
>>97134995The artwork in Agent Avenue is downright furry shit (I don't use that term that lightly). It's very suggestive and too anthropomorphic. Unlike something cartoony like Root, for example.
>>97134246No, because you'd be messing with the math. Leave that to Knizia.
What are your favorite heavy games?
>>97131755>TQs:New AngelesBoxes are illegal, all games come in a plain paper bagha ha wowI ran into >>97113859 out in the parking lot, he told me he was "Longin' for a booty bongin" and then he tried to put a war sun down the front of my cargo shorts.
>>97134747How to expose yourself as a brainlet 101
>>97134809Chess can be fun if you play with people on a similar level and drop any illusions that you'll actually get gud at the game. Embrace the chaos.
>>97131755>Ever had weird/bad social interactions while boardgaming?There was a guy I think was homeless, he'd come in the same wool sweater in July reeking of month old body odor. He was sharp but I couldn't stand to be at the table with him. Then there was the alcoholic who either came blitzed and sobered up to drunk over the course of the evening or came drunk and got blitzed by the end and couldn't even pass cards. He always had an insulated cup that reeked of peach that he'd sip on. Did pretty amazing at games too, he was a high functioning alcoholic I guess and I'd hate to see him play sober. Then there was the Muslim who came only to learn English and was pretty blatant in that he said that's why he was there when I pressed him about not actually playing but just putting his pieces down each turn with no effort to advance. The weirdest I think was the young couple who showed up with dominion and refused to try any other game and instead played 2p dominion by themselves all night. Sometimes I wonder why I miss board game meetup.
>>97134646Cardhaus
>>97135010Sons of Anarchy is like that for me. It's actually a good game despite being an ip, and I watched the show, even enjoyed it for the most part but I can never enjoy bringing out the game because I'm always too worried what the normies are thinking. I'd unironically play agent Avenue and enjoy people squirming while watching for signs anyone was too into it.
>>97135436In no particular order >War of the Ring>Paths of Glory>Empire of the Sun>Argent The Consortium >Fire in the Lake>Hegemony>John Company>World at War ‘85>Pax Renaissance Also there are games I don’t consider heavy that many do:>Pax Pamir>Combat Commander>Gloomhaven
>>97134995it's an even better game at 4 actually and the owl is hot
What did everyone play this weekend?for me it was Clocktower on Friday, then the back two thirds of an Arcs campaign, and a game of Stationfall today with a couple rounds of Unstoppable after everyone went home
>>97136118>Quartermaster General: East FrontPlayed against a relatively inexperienced guy (3 games under his belt) with me as USSR.I thought it would be easy, and it was... At first. Managed to knock out almost all of the guy's airplanes and tanks in the first two turns, so I thought I set myself up for a comfortable game. Managed to build up a 5 VP lead by the end of 1942, prevented any real breakthroughs, and started to set up a counterpush to end the game.But somehow, the counterpush never materialised and the Axis managed to start clawing into my lead. A victory star space here, a VP card there, and he even got a lead for a short while.Second game out of dozens I played that went until the very end. I was out of cards for the last two turns and won by 1 VP. I did make a couple of bad moves, but my conception of how much easier the USSR is to play got a dent. Perseverance can work out even for an Axis with less than half of the units the USSR has.
>>97131755>What is a game you love that you think doesn't get talked about enough?Valley of the Kings is still my favourite deckbuilder, I'm looking forward to the archaeology expansion coming to retail>What's one thing you would change about the board game industry?Kikestarter FOMO focus and gorillion-mini-bloat>Will you be bringing some party games to the office Christmas party?It's just finger food and a stand-up meal at a bar. I'll probably just eat/drink all the free stuff for an hour or so and then disappear>Ever had weird/bad social interactions while boardgaming?There is one turbo-autist in our monthly club who, when it isn't his turn, gets up and paces back and forth muttering to himself. We always have to tell him to be quiet and go further away, he is so fat he rocks the tables in his wake.
>>97136118Between seeing in-laws, doing household chores and getting christmas decorations up, I only had time for a few quick games of Pixies and LotR Duel with the wife. Pixies was fun with the little expansion, a few more nice decisions, she always frustrates me by ending the round just before I get that one card I want, she won one game by a point, and I won the other by a point. Duel she just got the win at the end by dominating the map.
>>97136096>and the owl is hotYou are the problem. I miss the days when furfaggotry was peak degeneracy and warranted marine spamming. Furries really gotta thank trannies for taking the heat off them
>“A lot of the core board game audience is playing to master a system or demonstrate some kind of skill – that’s not how I play games.” - Cole WehrleNow what does that say about his designs
>>97136471Sounds like a cool guy, I'd play games with him.
>>97136471personally, I've never needed a reason to dislike bad games
hang tough boys, the main force is almost to the objective
>>97136471>demonstrate some kind of skill – that’s not how I play gamesAnd other copes for creating shite games from one Cole Toiletwhirl
>>97136471>Now what does that say about his designsThat they are perfect for me and why I play games.
>>97136471I think he can express the "why" of his designs and design philosophy well and coherently, which is pretty remarkable. He also seems like a cool guy. The problem is that I don't merely disagree but think he is wrong on a fundamental level and his games reflect that.
>>97136592This is such a reasonable post that the general deserves more. What do you see as the "why" behind his design philosophy and what are the game elements you so vehemently disagree with?
>>97136471The Neil Drukmann of board games
>>97136592>>97136603Not anon but to me it is the same as smegmaier. They are very open about their morals/values/priorities which is their choice but also allows me to be more critical of them being driven by greed, exploitation, disrespect, classism, implicit biases against race, etc.When I buy games that have the designer ever sniff at being public about their views and opinions Im more criticial, its just about being a grownup and feeling in control of a shitty world
>>97136731>exploitation, disrespect, classism, implicit biases against race>>>/tumblr/
>>97136471We just saw this take like 1 thread ago. FInd a designer who thinks something else.
>>97136951I mean you can call it whatever you want. Im just an asshole who hates other assholes like cole, those are just good reasons on top. If they droppedfalse pretenses of being socially conscious while being bad people I wouldnt give a shit.But Im equally harsh on creative writing degree efka and dice tower theatre degree people who talk nonstop about deep issues they have no fucking leg to stand on making it their entire personality. Its just shit i care about because its my career, I dont expect others to. But also tldr version they want to subvert their industry so fucking hard while being so fucking flaccid and propped up by equally limp fans
>>97134608>Generate resourcesThat's the problem, really.You need X amount of resource to do Y.You can only get that resource by dedicating part of a turn to place a token on a point that will trickle that resource to you on subsequent turns.Once sufficient turns have passed you can move forward on actually accomplishing your goal.It is a SHIT mechanic. If the goal of the game IS resource generation and first X wins so you fight over those spots? Then it's fine. I'm cool with that. Instead, it's a deliberate choke point of resources to slowly advance you actually accomplishing playing the meat of the game.It can be handled better. For example, starting the game with a building or worker in the resource generating points so each turn you are fueling your game state unless prevented by another player's actions (like taking over your worker/building)? That is absolutely fine. Fighting over resources is good shit, but starving you of them out the gate unless you dedicate a slow buildup is a poor design philosophy.>>97134707>Favorite gamesHighly varied tastes. Adventure, Dungeon Crawlers, Skirmish, abstract strategy, auction games, deck builders. It would be hard for me to tell you a favorite game. It's much easier to list shit that irks me.>Roll to move as a mechanic in dungeon crawlers or any other game where random space occupancy isn't a core mechanic. (For example, RTM is completely fine in Talisman but needlessly retarded in Clue).>Worker Placement for reasons stated>Trick Taking. Not bad, just boring as hell to me.>App being required. Surefire way to make a game unplayable in decade. XCOM players will let you know.
>>97137072>It would be hard for me to tell you a favorite game. It's much easier to list shit that irks me.God, this sounds like a shit life.
>experience physical joy when setting up and tearing down StSI never knew what difference a nice insert makes
>>97137082What? You want a top ten of games I like? That's fine. Bear in mind, they aren't mechanically masterpieces so much as stuff I enjoy playing each time they hit the table>HexPlore It series>Cloudspire>War Chest>Millennium Blades>Aeon's End/Astro Knights>Super Fantasy Brawl>Disc Duelers>Quarriors >DungeonQuest
>>97137107Forgot>Dice Wars Heroes of Polyhedra
>>97137094I bought a set of multiculoured little plastic ramekins/bowls. I cannot describe how much joy it added. Just dumping stuff into them as needed, organizing, its so much more convenient. I really appreciate games that are asking me to pay 60 instead of 40 but use that difference to give me SOMETHING to make the experience better like an insert.>>97137082Too many people not playing games to know what they like that's why. They arent feeling any positive feelings to reflect on
>>97137124It's more that I have a bunch different games I enjoy. Asking me "What's your favorite game?" is akin to asking an Italian "What's your favorite pasta?".
>>97137167Other anon asked you for some favourite games, not one favourite game. I think it's just kind of a sad attitude to whine about things you don't like, no matter how much I might agree or how valid the points may be, when asked about things you do like.
>>97133123Lost CitiesRace for the Galaxy
>>97137167No, an italian would actually give you an answer.
>>97137202I did give an answer>>97137107>>97137117
Any board game pods/videos that are not just reviews and influencers, something with depth , and made by people with actual relevant backgrounds /education?>>97137167Respectfully, thats a big red flag that someone asks you a basic question and you feel the need to not answer it, give a different answer to a different question entirely that you make up, and then double down when someone legitimately asks wtf, by being pretentious.Just answer the question or dont speak my dude itll do wonders for your qol
>>97136118While you grasshopper types played a bunch of fun stuff, me and my ant friend played 1/9 of a game of Normandy 44>>97136471That's funny, people who don't want to master a system are the reason I don't bother to play Root anymore.>>97136731>Wherle and Stonemaier are driven by greed, disrespect, etcMildly curious what you're on about here if you want to continue ranting
>>97136995If you legit care about things like implicit bias, you shouldn't have access to the Internet. If you are ranting against people who make it their persona, be clear with your language.>Its just shit i care about because its my career, I dont expect others to.You work in the industry?
>>97134560You need La Famiglia in your life if you think the worker placement, the fight for action spaces, isn't the interesting part of the game>but it only slows the game downUsually the games have a strict round limit, so no, the game is not going slower, you just have to think more since the easy path to victory was easily contested and your plan had no fallback option.
>>97135436you keep asking this every threadwhat's your endgame? are you interested in playing heavy games with people from this thread via some online way like Tabletop Simulator?
I often see people getting really upset about cute wood critters as theme. I get that it is a bit overdone and aggresively preys on wömenfolk and their husbands who desperately need something to get their partner to indulge their boardgame hobby. But aside from that aftertaste, I don't really see any reason to be too upset about this whole thing. Is it really a no go when deciding on a purchase or are you fags just posturing? Genuine question.
>>97136970This is sucha a bad take. If you have trouble calculating 2x3 then you can't play 90% of the games. I also find the rules fairly simple.
>>97136471It says nothing, like any quote out of context does. I wanna see the rest of that quote, how DOES he play games if he's not trying to win them the usual way?
>>97137072>That's the problem, really.But that's not worker placement. Worker placement is just action selection. Dominant species has worker placement. You use a piece and select an action space. That's all there is. A certain type of games usually uses this mechanism but that's another story.
>>97136995>creative writing degree efka and dice tower theatre degree people who talk nonstop about deep issues they have no fucking leg to stand on making it their entire personalityI legitimately do not know what you are talking about here? Can you give an example, what deep issues are they talking about? I assume your not talking about "deep issues" in boardgaming.
>>97137324Not boardgames , humans, and have three degrees related to it. So the words mean different things to me than you and that's why I use them. I dont expect people to be as sensitive as I am to sketchy people but yeah cole and jamey and efka and all the other performative social justice people are extra irking. But I dont expect people to see the layers and patterns behind how they are shifting a hobby i enjoy in a bad direction very intentionally for their own gain at the expense of others (which is a huge pet peeve) people can just play their games. This general is better than most places here for depth but is still usually really shallow and thats a ok >>97137418Its like zombies and european traders before that and medieval before than and and and. Its what scifi now is. Just an indicator that the game has a higher chance of being less refined or shitty in other shitty ways publishers have been lately
>>97137497Oathsworn review being 20 minutes of critiquing the male gaze elements before I even know what the game actually is or have seen components
>>97137506>But I dont expect people to see the layers and patterns behind how they are shifting a hobby i enjoy in a bad direction very intentionally for their own gain at the expense of othersMight I ask you to go into detail? Just curious. I dislike the people you mentioned on a more baseless, intuitive level, but I'd be curious as to what you exactly mean>>97137506Idk anon. Spaceships have got me going for decades and likely will continue to do so, while anthropomorphic animals/cute woodland critters/nature themes feel bland and devoid of taste to me after a mere bunch of years
>>97137420>I also find the rules fairly simple.That's why it's a good take. System mastery is not difficult or exciting.Consumers preferring games about system mastery is also the main driver behind consumable board games. Once you've mastered the systems the game has run it's course and it's time to buy a new game. It's a market where publishers don't care about replayability.
>>97137418Its become a saturated theme and it comes across as lazy, a marketing ploy.The theme itself if fine. It works great for certain settings, games.>>97137513NPI?
>>97137532I wrote a long ass reply right as maintenance started and then realized no one would give a shit. TLDR version, if your intuition tells you certain board game people are off its probably because you're picking up on how they are actively biting the hand that feeds them and by extension players everywhere who want a healthy industry, by coveting more power and money for themselves and being happy as contrarians burning their industry down talking about shit they have zero credibility to speak on.On a happier note, I love scifi because it's pulling from a deep well. Animals stuff can get deep (redwall i guess idk), but in board game form it has been so ridiculously shallow, mediteranean trader level effort to be deep
You ready to mess with my team? Probably not. You better leave boy.
>>97137506When are we getting medieval steampunk animal merchants in the mediterranean?
Question for everyone but especially canadians, what do you use for matt varnish? I do not have a local shop to get shit from and the only two choices I seem to be able to find is army painter matt spray or rustoleum flat clear on amazon. I would buy the army painter but it is majorly over priced on amazon.ca at $35 a can when all the other are around 24. The rustoleum doesn't seem to have an ingredient list which I would like to stay with acrylic and I am assuming the rustoleum is not acrylic but the prices is right at 14$ a can. The rest are unknown name craft shit. Would kind of like a brush on though so I can do it in the house for now. Recommendations?
>>97137607Tabs.
>>97137622Yeh I caught that, I am in the right place now
>>97137595You just know theres a designer out there drooling over the idea of inegelanrly smushing together all of that, inserting a subtext of a subversive performative social justice topic and warming their fingers up to fight people on BGG over it>>97137585Laughing my ass off at how this looks like utter sloppy directionless trash and then the anon below made that comment
>>97137506Humanities is not a real field dude, get a real fucking job.>b-but I'm employed!You probably teach. that's all fucking humanities majors can do, they just teach.
>>97137703My job is always validated when someone is so stupid as to interpret "i studied humans" as "humanities", take some english classes at your diploma mill before your visa expires if you want a job too and your pr buh-deeePeople like you are case and point why board game celebs are raking in cash selling you puddles
>>97137538> That's why it's a good take.Are we talking about the opinion in the picture? The person in the pic claims the rules are unintuitive and are hard to figure out.Otherwise I agree. The market shifted to rules and component heavy games. First impression is what sells the games.> market where publishers don't care about replayability.Replayable games make people spend less on new games.
This post >>97137772 brought to you by the Phoebus cartel.
>>97137772Replayability is always a weird topic to discuss with how up for interpretation it is. Example Ive recently seen a ton of talk about unstoppable having 'bad' replayability and its always about how there are so few bosses and seeing all the cards after only a few plays. To which I think that's the average consumer now just wanting novelty. Which is why all the trendy 300$+ allin games are all about drip feeding you content slowly. The idea of replaying a game over and over again slowly mastering it in whatever way a player feels satisfied is doa in 2025
>>97137804>the average consumer now just wanting novelty.I for one want rare minerals.
>>97136471
>>97137813Acquiring wealth? Mr. President is right up your alley! Designed by a person who has sexual interference with a minor conviction on record to make it even more true to life!>GMT not disavowing him and having him still design games and write the newsletter is buckfuckingwild, dont see jamey or efka speaking out about that eh boys
>>97137107>Astro Knightsbased
>>97137832does anyone know what's going on with that series? Indie cards doesn't usually have printing issues, I know aeons end has been intermittently hard to get, but astro knights has been mia from my major retailers forever, to the point i didnt even know it HAD an expansion because I never saw it come in on either the 'new' or 'restock' lists for 2 years
>>97137578>by coveting more power and moneyIs it bad for board game publishers to covet money? Does Stegwherle have actual abusable power over something, and not just the tendency to annoy people who don't agree with them and are way too immersed in board game media?
Arcs?
>>97137845I don't know how you can argue it doesn't have a verifiable and meaningful impact on board gaming, between how much discussion online revolves around them and how much social media is cancerous to our real world, alongside sales, alongside trends in the market over time
>>97136995Efka is a disgusting fat pig who looks like he smells bad. It's funny that this animal somehow became a "voice" in the Reddit scene.
>>97136603I'd like to write a bit more but I'll need some uninterrupted time, aka when the kids are in bed. Lets see if I manage to do so tonight>>97136731Idk anon. I think these politically active people are a blight on the hobby, but I wouldn't hold the mere fact they are outspoken about their morals against them, especially if they deliver on creating something I enjoy. I mean, they usually do not, but still
>>97137885The issue is that board gaming is a lot of outspoken people who have done basically zero work on actually building the foundation to be outspoken with. How many social workers, researchers, advocates, lobbyists, NGO leadership figures, etc are out here telling us how to feel with conviction instead of just sharing gently. They cultivate the cults of personality that platform them knowing they are in no way qualified, and its reflecting in how they arent making stuff you engage with, anyone with a brain is seeing through it.
>>97137650You just know it will have fat black women with frizzy afros and smug faces as prominent characters.
The only good game by Cole Wehrle is Pax Pamir.
>>97137824This is such a weird take. What's euro-y about his designs? They are fragile,, have luck (or as he puts it, "uncertainty") and narrative play a central role as does metagame and above the table negotiation. Not the things I associate with euros
>>97137506It's okay dude, I drunkpost sometimes too. Just be clear what you're talking about and don't go accidentally sounding off like a tumblrina, that's all. Really kills the vibe.
>>97137964And it's not even his game fully.
>>97137975I think Wherle is squarely in the Ameritrash realm, but>fragile>have luck >metagame>table negotiationYou just described CATAN, T&E, and most other 90's and early 2000s Old School German Euros.
>>97137734You, like the people you insulted earlier on youtube, are not smarter because you decided to criticise social issues when it comes to playing fucking board games made of cardboard and plasticI hate seeing all this social shit in my hobby at all, I wish we gatekept so much better in the earlier years.
>>97138036Don't be a retard, the media a society produces and consumes are mirrors of it, no matter if they're made of cardboard and plastic.
>>97137975You get points for everything, your victory condition is muh most victory points. I don't feel like I'm playing a wargame when I play Root. I feel like I'm playing a eurified ameritrash with occasional dice combat (which is very lazily done btw).
>>97137996Fair point about catan, disagree about the classic german games. They feature luck but (and I should probably have been more clear in my wording) contrary to wehrle designs don't treat it as ludonarrative element that justifies itself, no matter how luck-dependent and swingy it makes the game. Drama and big plays is an integral part of wehrle design and I assume he wouldn't want to be caught dead designing a game you can just play well, be in the lead from t1 on and win 2h later by a wide margin because you played the best game.
>>97138050I've been following your posts but I don't know what you're talking about. Do you dislike these people because they're hypocrites or because they haven't done enough? What have Wehrle and Stegmaier done? I don't get it.
>>97138050You might have a point if like 99% of board games weren't clearly just designed for friends to have fun playing a game, very very few games even tackle social problems in a way that even really sparks those conversations.I think the only game I played where it was very obviously designed to push those kinds of conversations was John Company but you're a retard who thinks Cole is sexist or some shit
Cole Wehrle godfathered and co-developed a game about faggots in illegal orgies set in London and you think he's some kind anti-liberal racist sexist nazi???
>>97138062I'm not that anon. Pretty much every game does have those "social problems", intentionally or not, because it's a product of our society.
>>97138088I think the guy was trying to say that people in the industry are just virtue signalling and trying to clout chase off that. Despite having three degrees in "humans", he managed to say the exact opposite.I disagree by the way. I think these SJW vermin are true believers for the most part, even if they are also clout chasing.
>>97138146>I think these SJW vermin are true believers for the most part, even if they are also clout chasing.This assumption is correct, in my experience.
>>97138093I think the discussions you can have are just not the same as if it was film/music/artThe issue with board games, is inherently they are just games. The goal is to be entertaining and fun first and foremost. While video games can invite this criticism too (about the barrier of which something is an 'experience' or 'fun' is a constant talking point), they are more audio/visual experiences as well so there's a lot more that goes into how you experience things and interpret what's being said, alongside the fact they have gigantic budgets now and have the same amount of people working on them as modern films.Board Games just don't get that luxury. They can tell a story in a campaign setting, but it's really just not the same. If a board game isn't fun, people just simply wont play it. If it's an 'experience', people might comment but they move right past it (I like John Company but it absolutely bounces off a lot of people for many reasons)Board Games, its creators, and its criticisms, should focus on being fun first and foremost. I couldn't give a shit about a creator's political takes because it almost never bakes into the games they offer. (Pax Ren is also god tier so suck my nuts)>>97138146This post is truth and factspilled by real american patriots
>>97138062>John CompanyThe problem is that every conversation about the game is extremely shallow because so many board gamers are retarded faggots who can’t go past the first layer of COLONIALISM BAD. These people unironically feel guilty playing it. They can’t understand what the game says about how so much of it was just opportunistic self interest or how Indians were often willing participants in their own subjugation. Funnily enough, it’s still not as bad as when you let these same kinds of people play the State in Hegemony. More than once I’ve seen someone spread their whole ass for the working class but also have high immigration and they never once internalize that this inevitably causes the government to have no money and there to be not enough jobs. >tl;dr board gamers are too retarded and sensitive to handle any form of commentary that goes beyond their most basic bitch Reddit-tier opinions about history and society
>>97138180Thats why I think John Company is great, yeah colonialism is bad or whatever, but it really is more about how some greedy fuck families can crash a whole business by ripping it apart internally for more money for themselves, and how India is just as guilty for its subjugation as they were victims of it.I haven't tabled Hegemony yet but I'm glad it has a realistic economic outcome to just gaping wide open to cheap imported labor. I own the game, and a couple of us are econ majors so it might go well for my group. >tl;dr board gamers are too retarded and sensitive to handle any form of commentary that goes beyond their most basic bitch Reddit-tier opinions about history and societyAlso this. I think most people making commentary don't really go into it with any other perspective other than reddit tier slop opinions. They are not challenging anything with their criticism.Also if we are talking about NPI/Efka, I'm sick of the anti-sex takes people like them keep making. Let artists make coomer figures for their games if they want, dont buy it if you dont want to see it.
>>97138180>tl;drHave you been in a coma for the past 15 years? This applies to literally everything my man. The terrorists are in the building and they are at the top floor in the CEO's office. Getting paid for their cultural devastation.
>>97137881I will argue that, because even if the whole industry fell off a cliff and no board games were ever produced again, it would not affect board gaming for me. I also think social media is one of those problems that actually goes away when you ignore it. I accept that things might be different for others, and I'm curious what powers these guys have, and what bad industry damaging things they are doing with them.
>>97138179>Board Games, its creators, and its criticisms, should focus on being fun first and foremost.So are boardgames toys or art? https://youtu.be/wG4zLcKsCiA?t=151
>>97138291This is just pulling the ladder up behind you mentality. The idea that prohibition laws hitting boardgames is nonchalant to you is why I dont bother going deeper than surface level here. there's no good faith to be had>>97138277Really arguably social media is making a huge impact because look at how intertwined with crowdfunding it now is and now OOP oldies coming back are fully exploiting those platforms and pricing out your average walmart shopper which isnt healthy for the industry. Its basically computer gaming all over. Once it tips fully into whaling its over
>>97138408Neither. They are games.
>>97138408define "toys" and define "art"
>>97137804to be fair I do want more bosses for Unstoppable. there’s a lot of value in the ones in the box, and each game has interesting decisions. It’s because what's in the box already is so good that I want more
>>97138408>degree in educationIt's literally the point of all the topics today. What business does amabel have giving me an hour lecture where they are talking down to me and others about their opinions on board games transcending the medium. Don't even get me started on how often they have used being trans to use the appeal from authority fallacy
>>97138516I am a bit disappointed that the next expansion is what seems like a bit of a niche crossover. I'm not a fan of the crossover stuff in general. But I will say that yeah, I just want more of it. I think there's enough meat to play with for a while, but the enemy keyword variety feels lacking as well. That's where it feels the most generic. Would like to see some enemies that feel thematic and not just mechanical
What's wrong with toys being toys?
>>97138599Faggots can't act like their hobby about games and toys are more serious if they don't talk about generational racism in them or something
>What is a game you love that you think doesn't get talked about enough?Tragedy Looper! I play that every Sunday with my friends.
>>97138599People clinging to any shred of hope after their entire identity they developed based on buying a shitload of shit they dont play (or transitioning sex) ended up actually being vacuous because games are just games, and it aint that deep
Not a board game per se, but got Gwent a couple of days ago and I must say it's pretty good. Quick and chill filler game. Decks on the box are pretty bland though imo, but if you're a fan of The Witcher, I'd say...for that price, go get it
>>97133251>brown guy staring at you>vs qt girl staring at you
>>97138599yeah man why do they have Football tournaments on the big screen its just dudes running around bashing their heads into one another and sometimes kicking the thing into the goal, same as what we did on the playground way back when, but why do they gotta take it seriously?
>>97138710They're both guys.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people#Clothing>In Tuareg society women do not traditionally wear the face veil, whereas men do.[115][117]
>>97138723
>>97138731The expansion has a woman on the cover.
>>97138761Actually, that's a boy.
>>97131755>What is a game you love that you think doesn't get talked about enough?Horseless Carriage is a really underrated Splotter and I'm a bit sad it had to compete with FCM's standards of popularity
>>97138546>>97138408It also doesn't help legitimize his point when all the games he's made himself are kind of shit.
>>97133079example?
>>97137539I had to look this guy up just to see that you're right on the money.
Do I really need to design and publish a game to show all these modern hacks how it's done? Holy shit.
>>97138460>This is just pulling the ladder up behind you mentality.Only if you think people require a new hyped up game to get into the hobby. Plenty of people came to board gaming through a beat up copy of Catan of Axis and Allies, and everyone has access to the same pool of unwanted used games I do.>prohibition lawsIs this real?
>>97138796I fall asleep playing Horseless Carriage. There is no interesting strategy to it. Oh boy I bumped this research track so now I can only sell to this niche next turn. So exciting! It's absolutely terrible to play in person. Full of fiddly admin.
>>97138722I do think people basing their entire identity on their sport team is retarded though
>>97138906The quality of /bgg/ posters has been so terrible lately.
>>97138798>Do I need to be a world class chef with years of experience and culinary whatever degree to say my food tastes or looks like shit? No>Should I be to have a youtube channel and patreon where my entire purpose and how I get paid is telling people how they should think and feel about the food they are eating and the food other people are making? Absolutely
>>97138906Well if you're falling asleep you definitely won't see the important aspects of the gameYou bumped this research track, which now means range will be the new spec in the market next round instead of Speed, but the other player has more gantt than you and decides to steal your precious research to use himself and set up nicely and steal your demand. This however uses up important space in his factory, which stops them from getting into the sports car market next round. Etc. Etc.It's easy to play HC badly or not focus on what other players are doing and think the game is bad, which is the exact reason why this game isn't talked about much anywhere, it requires a little more than most consumers are used to with no pretty 50s aesthetics to bring them in.
>>97138885>I had to look this guy up just to see that you're right on the money.who?
>>97138890can you give a space theme? preferably about the life of a small spaceship crew, like the Nostromo?thanks
>>97139217Efka the fat slav
>>97139252I thought he was latvian or something
>>97139060I understand all this. I just don't find it interesting. Setup, teardown and fiddly admin steps really bring it down as a physical game. TGZ is a masterpiece because it's so clean and has much richer and interesting depth without all the baggage. Horseless is only playable online and even then it's boring as fuck. FCM is b tier btw as well.
>>97139402Is there any other splotter above b tier for you? Most of the big ones are fiddly with all the pieces.
>>97139402thoughts on Cannes?
>>97139438NTA but I like Cannes and Bus.
>>97139327>WargamerAmerican?>Hates ttr, loves catanHe might be german
>>97139451Look at the way he writes. He's not a native English speaker. So, yeah, German is a good guess.
I saw Mottainai for $10 (new condition). Worth it?
>>97137418I don't give a shit about theme and don't understand those who doBut you can tell when the effort is merely a marketing ploy and when it isn't, and this is more often than not the case with cute wood critters>>97137964I would say Arcs and Oath are fine too>>97138599hell if I know, I guess some people want to pretend the stuff they like is serious business>>97139597yes, get it
>>97138559yeah there's currently not a lot of room for expressiveness from individual enemies at all. limited keywords does make it nice and easy to run thoughI'll play the DCC version, though I won't want to mix and match them which ultimately limits the options by a lot. I would appreciate a full expansion in the same setting, though I definitely haven't exhausted the base box yet and still need to secure the little kickstarter expansion
>>97139602>I don't give a shit about theme and don't understand those who doSame. I think "themers" are just pseudo-artists/wannabe writers/theater kids in the wrong hobby.>But you can tell when the effort is merely a marketing ploy and when it isn't, and this is more often than not the case with cute wood crittersThey are riding on the coattails of Root.
>>97139635Anthropomorphic animals avoid race depiction issues nicely. That’s why so many games do it now.
>new gmt games start to hit store>hubris>hellenistic history. Interest peaked >that’s a weird box cover though>BCE ugh, I wonder if the designer is an insufferable wan… oh dear…The old guard of krusty gmt Jews is dying off and apparently they’re going to boomer off their company. Sad.
Wtf is Cloudspire?Is it a wargame?Is it a boardgame MOBA?
>>97138248>Also if we are talking about NPI/Efka, I'm sick of the anti-sex takes people like them keep making. Let artists make coomer figures for their games if they want, dont buy it if you dont want to see it.I feel like this is increasingly a relic of millennial male feminist absurdity that no one gives a shit about anymore.
Solo game recs? Hard mode: No modern euros.
>>97139753Assault on Doomrock babyyyyyyyyyy
>>97139727What is this?Surely not hoplite as thats a reprint
>>97139751I'm surprised that rhetoric is still around, that wave of anti sex feminism is like anita sarkeesian shit that did not gain traction as games went free to play and found out sexy skins sell a ton better than uggo ones.
You can say theme doesnt matter at all and thats true for most games but also really shows who hasnt played captains chair or imperium horizons or watergate or any hex and counter and I pity you for not seeing what joy there is in playing a holistic experience.
>>97139789I have played imperium horizons indeed and still don't care about theme in general
>>97139789>imperium horizons >theme Lol
>>97139782>I'm surprised that rhetoric is still aroundIt feels really dated, isn't it? These same people are pro-only fans and prostitution btw.
>>97139327>Third World WarBasedAlso I’ve noticed there’s a pretty big overlap between people who like classic euros and wargames. That includes me.
>>97139789>Imperium >themeself report
In my case I'm not saying theme doesn't matter. I'm saying theme is secondary at best. And I would say art comes even before theme. So for me, personally: 1. Gameplay 2. Art 3. Components 4. Theme. "Oh this board game didn't feel like I was an old British pirate with tuberculosis in some 1700s Caribbean island!". If you want to larp as whatever you should just play RPGs. You're putting the wrong expectations on board games.
>>97139753Just got this in the mail today finally.
>>97139712>add coon to my game>they steal
>>97139782>as games went free to play and found out sexy skins sell a ton better than uggo ones.To say nothing of gacha games and how successful they’ve become>>97139824>These same people are pro-only fans and prostitution btw.To them, if a man draws a woman with giant tits, it’s objectification and harms women everywhere. If a woman sucks 40 dicks in a row for her OF subs, it’s empowering. Yes we live in a clown world and the sex bots will be the end.
>>97139858Looks pretty cool. I'm seeing the campaign included two pins, did you receive them? The fox one looks nice.
>>97139888I late pledged so I didn't get any of the pins and stuff the actual campaign had. I did get a small promo of a couple extra cards and a paper insert advertising a sequel themed around Jason and the Argonauts.
>>97138180Good post. I have (rarely but still) dealt with these bleeding heart faggots as well, and it always baffles me. Play is the safest of spaces to explore behaviour unexceptable irl or do something you aren't fully comfortable with. Games give you an agreed upon framework to act aggressive and selfish, lie, steal, betray, be corrupt and such without any real world consequences.I don't want to be needlessly shitty towards people whose moral compass doesn't allow the tiniest slip, but it seems like they fundamentally do not understand what it is to play, and I pity them.
>>97137072
>>97136471He's 100% right
>>97137202It's pizza you gobba goolie! [hands thing]
>>97139926There’s a certain point where morality becomes fragility. A complete and utter inability to engage with the human condition in its entirety. I know it’s just board games in the end but I find it rather grotesque. Don’t get me wrong, I would definitely look askance at a game that asked you to commit a genocide or something, but I’d at least try to engage with what it was trying to say or present assuming it wasn’t just trying to be edgy. I see it as a cousin to people who think Kentaro Miura hated women because Casca is raped. Or any other piece of work that has a dark subject matter being seen as an endorsement. Not to be overly political in what is already a politically charged discussion. But the only people I find worse than everyone I’ve just described are those who whitewash something because they agree with it. I find it abhorrent that there are multiple wargames about the Spanish Civil War that uncritically try to portray the *Republicans* as the “good guys”
>>97139855>>97139821Plz explain what was wrong about that. Each faction has a distinct playstyle based on their historical empiresThere's even martians that interact with the system completely differently in ways that connect to the idea of ancient aliens. Like what is this about it not having theme? It is designed to have theme linked to the systems intrinsically.And even then, you cant argue that captains chair doesnt drip with well used theme, and its literally imperium in space with location management
>>97137418where the fuck are you looking? or is this hot take on something I imagined? ROOT sucks because it's a fucking bad game, wingspan sucks because it's underwhelmingly simple, Agent Avenus sucks because you won't ever experience taking that suited wolf's knot. Being angry at woodland creatures is not a thing.
>>97137607unknown name craft shit or dick blick. surely they allow dick blick in canada
>>97140024Personally, I’d say it’s because Imperium is far too abstract of a game for it to truly be thematic. You could change all the artwork and names of all the cards and it wouldn’t be any different. Now, I will say it is *more* thematic than, say, Dominion, but that doesn’t equate it to being a game with a strong theme.
>>97140004Yes, that is how he plays games. He's right about that.>>97140012The Republicans were rapists and terrorists. Once I read about all the shit they did, I couldn't believe how there were many pro-Republican movies that portray them as the only victims and whatnot.
>>97139753UnstoppableFor NorthwoodOne Deck Dungeon/GalaxyZoo Tycoon: the Board Game (maybe this is a modern Euro but I don't think it counts)Star Trek Captain's Chair (also debatably a Euro)Civolution (definitely a Euro)
>>97138408I remember getting into an argument with a professor about whether an artist who had painted a dinosaur with feathers was thus stating their position that dinosaurs had feathers and it couldn't be just a work of art for no other reason than to show what it looked like without weighing in on the argument in question.I literally couldn't watch the ham planet explain tho, it's so disgusting that it's enshrouding itself in mock enragement at dice tower for being the biggest game channel and not being inline with whatever fucktarded shit she's about to spew.
There's a youtube documentary entirely devoted to Ryan Laukat where they portray him as some generational genius. Half the scenes is just him talking to his playtesters and wife. Tom Vasel has a cameo. Do you like his games? I'm only familiar with Creature Caravan.
>>97138890>>97139230call it implode and have an impossibly underbuilt sub that is trying to get to the titanic. nobody wins
>>97140066>For Northwoodoop unless you buy it from china>UnstoppableAlready on the way. Just delayed because of seasonal activity. >One Deck Dungeon/Galaxywhat's the difference? >Zoo Tycoon: the Board Gamewill take a look>Star Trek Captain's Chair (also debatably a Euro)I want to try it so bad. >Civolution (definitely a Euro)Eh, looks like not my thing.
>>97140063>I couldn't believe how there were many pro-Republican movies that portray them as the only victims and whatnot.It’s because they lost and many liberals and Marxists alike had romantic views of Republican Spain, both during and after the war.Were the Nationalists great heroes? Of course not, they had plenty of innocent blood on their hands. But it’s vile that the Republicans are le heckin’ wholesome freedom fighters and we just gloss over all those times they did things like gangrape nuns before burning them alive.
>>97139857I used to say the exact same thing but I actually can't enjoy GWT2. I *like* playing cowboy and the woke shit just makes it less fun. Theme is not important unless it's bad and then it can wreck even great gameplay.Bad components and bad art to a lesser degree, like the stupid cowboy hats or the too similar station master and whatever they replaced teepees with. I guess what I'm saying is:1. doesn't have bad theme2. doesn't have bad components3. doesn't have bad art (too busy or everything blends, including unreadable text)4. good gameplay5. good art6. good components7. good themeGWT2 isn't the only game but it's the most relevant since I like the orange cows but I just can't enjoy it like GWT.
>>97140004games that reward mastery are bad. everybody fucking malds when I say that but in my experience a great game is one that anyone can sit down at with proper instruction and without resorting to rng can challenge the most experienced player. I really can't understand people who rage about this position.For a bad game example take Smallworld. The more you play, the more you learn the cards and combinations that work the more you can wipe the board with other players. There are also red herrings in that you can't really accomplish some things that ipso facto seem viable. So the more you play the more you learn the more you have a real advantage over those who sit down and, even if they read every word of text, haven't played before.
>>97140066>>97140096>One Deck Dungeon/Galaxytheme. also the dice are FUCKING garbage. they're so light and flicky that it makes playing not fun. I literally bought and swapped chessex d6s in all colors to make the game playable.
>>97140138is the older edition so bad the new one was necessary? can't it be house ruled?
>>97140138>can't enjoy GWT second edition because "le woke"whewthis isn't even a "theme" issue, it's just you being opinionated to the point that it affects your ability to enjoy gamesit's not like it has faggots and trans flags and whatnot
>>97140154> in my experience a great game is one that anyone can sit down at with proper instruction and without resorting to rng can challenge the most experienced player.Most of the time it will come down to RNG. Or in the case of auction games pure instinct and timing. Other than that, it's mostly pure RNG. Care to name examples?
>>97140178you can't houserule theme anon, not without a lot of stickers.you can however remake an entire 1st edition to include orange cows and a 5th player with a little ink and only two stickers.>>97140185would you be surprised if I said fluxx was ruined when they removed creepers?
>>97140096>what's the difference?besides theme there's a pretty big difference in mechanics. Galaxy lets you make progress on multiple cards at once over numerous turns, and gives you more inherent options for dice conversion into other resources. Dungeon is more of a push-your-luck adventure feel, though the skill ceiling is surprisingly high and the difficulty scaling accommodates that as you get gudi'd recommend trying Civolution in TTS, but you know your owns tastesI've been checking out coverage of a game called Radiance that is crowdfunding - my concern is that there's too many little fiddly effects to track constantly, but it has piqued my interest somewhat
>>97140204>you can't houserule theme anon, not without a lot of stickers.I meant keeping the 1st edition but using the new rules or whatever for the 2nd edition. I'm not familiar with the game so I dont know if thats possible.
>>97140209from the 2nd edition*
>>97140205do you prefer Galaxy or dungeon?Yea, I backed Radiance. I also want to see if I can get his other game Rome. Supposedly there'll be extra copies available some time later.
>>97140209there are extra cards that need the same back and feel, without sleeving that's fairly difficult but I did it to one of my copies back when I cared more about this shit. so yeah I have the only 5p 1st edition of GWT with orange cows in existence and haven't played it since.also I learned along the way that the 2nd edition is not similar enough to be compatible so I have a partially gutted version of that too.
Guys, I just want to say that this is the best forum for discussing board games. I've tried others and they just sucked. No freedom at all.
>>97140236I don't see you discussing any games friend.
>>97140154>a great game is one that anyone can sit down at with proper instruction and without resorting to rng can challenge the most experienced player Give some examples.
>>97140227I prefer Dungeon, but mostly because there's more content for it. Galaxy is probably less random, but also closer to being a Euroother games I forgot:Under Falling SkiesSpirit IslandROVESprawlopolisand of course Mage Knight
>>97137844The expansion was another stand alone title with added effects so they are "technically" cross compatible but not really. They are bad about doing that shit, but, then again, most designers are.Just make more content instead of chucking new features into the mix. That shit just seems impossible to do for a lot of designers and it wrecks cross compatibility.
>>97140268Century Spice RoadKeyflowerCastles of Burgundy (ignoring the unbalanced map)maybe Sons of Anarchy which has a great divorced combat system but I haven't actually got it to the table enough to be sure
>>97137832Prefer it over Aeon's End, honestly.The market setup in AE will make or break the game. If you don't have good synergy with some stuff, you are gonna get creamed. If the synergy is too good, the game becomes easy as hell unless you get four boss activations in the row at the end of round one and start of round two (some bosses are just gonna steam roll your ass from that point onward).The variable market in AK keeps the game pretty balanced.
Guys I spent $300 on two games and I'm starting to have buyers remorse since I won't get to try them until after Christmas.
>>97139438Yea I mentioned The Great Zimbabwe. Their best game by far. Indonesia is close, but also suffers from a lot of operational non decision admin.
>>97140334what did you get? post the list if you can
>>97140273>Mage KnightI have to be one of the few solo enjoyers who doesn't care for MK. It's for a purely stupid reason though. It takes up too much space for what it is. If a game doesn't fit on my 3'x5' table, it kind of pisses me off. Still not as bad as Isofarian Guard the player and enemy boards are retarded as hell space hogs in that game.
do you like stickers on your meeples?
>>97140361No but I like screenprinting. The tech's getting so good stickers just seem archaic.
>>97140236i have spent the last 12 hours in here metacritiquing and lambasting board game celebs and having all my points directly related to games be ignored but uh ok anon. Post about some fuckin games next time>>97140357I dont know how much the game is actually good or is a victim of r*ddit and bgg sucking it off to the point its a meme. Like spirit island and arkham lcg I 100% get the hype for , good designs, elegant, feels right and fun to play, scalable to 2+. Very little about mage knight actually looks ... Good? Like outside of how meaty it is which, so was gloomhaven. Complexity for the sake of it doesnt make a good game
>>97140370>The tech's getting so goodAnon the process hasn't changed.
>snap 5 game losing streak in TS>win via space race to the end of the race track>as soviets in LATE WAR>after a brutal mid war made me almost concede at turn 5 and my buddy talked me out of itAn absolute mess of a game, with several misplays on both our parts, but a glorious mess. We agreed its one of our most memorable sessions of TS and an absolute banger of a night.Anons, board gaming is the bees knees, the cats meow, a joy to behold.I love it so much.
>>97140670Happy for you anonAlso the game that absolutely btfos the people saying theme doesnt matter. Truly a godlike game you always walk away from feeling something
>>97140348For me it's TGZ and Bus that are their masterpieces. Indonesia had one of the shittiest boards in terms of readability, so I am looking forward to seeing the third edition. Food chain magnate's recent printings should have removed off the completely unnecessary milestone cards for the menus they've sold on bgg for years. >>97139597Absolute steal at 10.>>97137964John Company is up there with pp2e if playing with people who understand it's all in good fun.>>97139602 Arcs was considered pretty bad by my group. Prevailing sentiment was that you are too beholden to the luck of the draw. You can too easily end up with no way to effectively leverage your hand and get all but locked out from victory. Sometimes you will be unable to even kick over other people's sandcastles due to lacking reach. I am considering working on a texas holdem variant with table cards you can use as part of your hand, but the dude who has it sold it on already. >>97140312Keyflower absolutely rewards mastery/knowledge checks you. Knowing what the tile pool is an whether to aggressively pursue your winter tile is a tangible advantage.Did my last bit of consooming for the year with a 70% off copy of Civolution. Looking forward to playing this weekend.
>>97137578Hi anon, I agree and you are very based for explaining it so candidly to others. Stegmeaier and Wherle creep me the fuck out. Generally speaking when someone is presenting you a face/personality alongside their product people need to always learn to be immediately cautious on what intentions that person has.Most board game reviewers have this issue for sure as well. SUSD even under Paul and Quinns spent years trying to cultivate a reactionary cult-esque fanbase (Paul has actually gone on to continue doing this under his own patreon), while I don't really like Tom and Matt it feels like they actually have dialed back on this behavior quite a bit.I think the problem in Boardgaming is it's pretty normal to have a designer attached as the name/face to a game so when fuckheads like Wherle and Jamey do it it just seems normal to most people even though they are doing it in completely different ways compared to say Martin Wallace or Knizia
>>97140745>Prevailing sentiment was that you are too beholden to the luck of the draw.If what >>97137864 says it's true, it looks like Wehrle sabotaged his own design. He doesn't like games where you can win by skill, instead he prefers games where luck decides the winner.
>>97140765Stegmeaier didn't have a gf until his late 30s.
>>97140765Jamey Stegmaier has a youtube where he uploads shit every day but Wehrle? What does he even do? How is he bad?
>>97140793Wherle has either intentionally or unintentionally created a cult of personality surrounding his games. I'm leaning toward intentionally after Molly House considering it's pretty dogshit and he didn't even design it but is listed as a designer for "some reason"
>>97140827>we should savage the wherlegigs>but not the eklundoans, the Knizzers, Uwellians, or Lacerdamoans, or the many other tribes of B-list designer worshipping sheep meeples.I wonder what the root reason could be, hmmmm
>>97138408Xier Tom Russel is a retard who willingly dated and married an autistic woman ~30 years his age and is currently living in poverty as a polyamourus tranny after divorcing her. Even as a man of reason this motherfucker is so fucking sinful I could never take xim seriously.Also all his games fucking suck
>>97140827I got banned from certain forum for calling that game "degenerate" lolI have no clue why he decided to attach his name to that dogshit game, though. Literally no clue. He met some gay guy at a convention and suddenly decided to give him a hand and all his industry resources? Out of all the indie games he ever saw since becoming Root-rich he chose THIS? I don't get it.
>>97139597Is it Mottainai or Mottainai Mini?
>>97140879Mottainai Mini.
>>97140793Wehrle seems to be pretty far up his own ass in general. Any designer who says shit like >“A lot of the core board game audience is playing to master a system or demonstrate some kind of skill – that’s not how I play games.” And >I don't balance my games, I want players to balance themselves [paraphrased]is suspect. But then again, a lot of the better known board game designers seem borderline retarded with the amount of shit takes they have.
>>97140840>after divorcing her.Wait, what?But she was the reason dinosaur table battles happened!And was half the soul of hollanspiele !Now isn't this need a way to piss all over my breakfast cereal.
>>97140895OK. $10 makes a bit more sense then. Mottainai is a game you would mostly play at 2p anyway so the reduced player count options isn't a big deal.
why the fuck do you know the personal lore of some random schizo tranny?
>>97140903He's an academic and tends to talk about games in high falutin. It makes him sound like a nonce but I think its just autism.
>>97132589>soloYES>worker placementYES>many paths to victoryYEAH YEAH>designed by Uwe RosenbergYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUHHHHHH
>>97140361I buy the Officially Liscensed Merch
>>97140921Every one of us is intimately familiar with the habits, philosophies, and origin story of every single catamite, parasocial social media parasite, and wretched human dingleberry that was ever tangentially related to this hobby. That's how we came to be the bestest board game discussion site on the whole internet.
>>97140994
>>97140906She wasn't just half the soul. The company was named after her. I don't really know anything about Mary but I feel bad for her despite her penchant for young virile neckbearded fatty males>>97140921Because all the information I mentioned has been proffered publicly by Tom Russel due to some sort of innate exhibitionism fetish he must suffer from
>>97140312So you think if someone who played these games dozen of times has the same chance of winning as someone who plays them for the fist time? Maybe even a first boardgame they play since experience doesn't matter?Obviously the player who already played boardgames and specifically this games has a better chance of winning.
>>97140379shitty /v/ analogy beyond deck building but I see MK like Slay the Spire - both nail the challenge vs empowerment balance beautifully, both have a strong addicting foundation on card synergy, and both have a nice comfy feeling that can bely the bland and unassuming aesthetics. On the outside they seem inscrutable. But when you play them you can definitely understand the praise even if they're still overhyped and there's nothing particularly novel to them. A nice soup of good mechanics (that's the real /v/ food analogy I was looking for).Fwiw MK wasn't considered as nearly big and bulky until the Ultimate edition which just proliferated early bgg ideas that it was the "most complex game ever" - which was mostly Vlaada onboarding all the TTA players to this new fangled Euro stuff (which ironically isn't considered that heavy of a game despite being about the same weight). It's definitely not like nu-Euros that dump systems and claim that the mishmash is complexity and that means fun. And it's definitely not Gloomhaven mentality of more shit means more fun either. It's hard not looking at his original inspiration of HoMM and drawing the comparisons there - short, simple tactical battles combined with higher level strategy that escalates over a long period of time resulting in 2-3 hour long adventures scrounging for a single dollar to becoming a immortal god teleporting across mountains and one shotting dragons before they even aggro'd and then taking the entire city with a single unit in the very same turn. Maybe that was the /v/ analogy I should have started with.
>>97141017YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUHHHHHH
>>97141095What’s that game on the table?
>>97140827>he didn't even design it but is listed as a designer for "some reasonThis goes for many designers. He "consulted" on the game so now they can attach his name on the box. And his name sells. It's marketing for the game. Same for M. Wallace and Brass B., R. Garfield and Mindbug and many others.
>>97141151I let Reiner Knizia use his name on the box but since 2011, it’s all been designed by me.
>>97140793>Jamey Stegmaier has a youtube where he uploads shit every dayHow is that bad by itself? Many people share their professions and hobbies on youtube.
>>97141158Because he talks about his products while presenting a personality and that’s what that anon was talking about. It’s all part of modern marketing 101 which I’m sure he’s familiar with. For instance he recently uploaded a video with his favorites in whatever genre and didn’t fail to mention his company’s latest game.
>>97141157He hasn't designed anything since 2011, only reprints.
>>97141048I can't imagine the kind of untermenche who end up in fat trans polyamourus couplesLike everyone is just ugly, fat, smelly, gross and a loser.How pathetic can everyone in it be?
>>97141180Wrong. Very wrong.
If you like the game Maria some Jew will cook things for you (comments):https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3621688/maria-takes-on-kemet-inis-and-cyclades
>>97141174>It’s all part of modern marketing 101Well of course. That's why his company is successful. That's why he became successful. He understands marketing, he knows how to run a kickstarter, he knows how to present his product. He's not just a designer, he runs a company and his goal is to sell games.When designers visit cons, meet fans, do interviews, live plays etc. it's all part of marketing. That's just how it goes whether we think this is good or not.
>>97141193So what games has this anon >>97141157 designed?
>>97140379>>97140357FWIW I don't think Mage Knight is that hard a game, it just has a fucking awful rulebook. If you watch a 'how to play' its a cool game and it really is not as hard as it looks. >>97141150Heroes of Might and Magic 3 the board game>>97141095Also a good analogy for MK is HoMM3: you're not spending a TON of time scheming your battles, it's more about what impact the battle leaves on you, the rewards for it, and if it's worth the opportunity cost.It's really not that bad a game, its obvious midweight stuff but there are much harder board games to learn and understand. If you can play simple RPG's you can easily get Mage Knight.
>>97141204So you shouldn’t trust this creep. That’s the point. He’s one step above a sleazy car salesman.
>>97141151Brass has all 3 on the box, Mindbug just says it was co-designed by garfield. I think for brass it's because the game is all his systems so he's on the box, the new one will probably be just gavan. For mindbug I think i jeard he came to the project later on when the game was mostly finished and just added a couple of things. Obviously this works because they are seen as the designers.
Look up what Wehrle said of Mage Knight. He shat on the game. He said he wasn’t impressed by Vlaada’s “procedural puzzles” or something like that.
>>97141217The point is that every company has marketing. They need ot to be successful. Jamey just does both, designing and marketing. He's not above a car salesman, he's the same as are other marketing departments. Other designers dont have the skill to shill their games. Jamey has that but he lacks in the designing aspect imo.
>>97141279> Jamey has that but he lacks in the designing aspect imo.That’s true, their most successful game was not even designed by Jamey
Catan: 8/10Cosmic Encounter: 5/10Guess the designer
>>97141329Fuck, I forgot to add the picture.
>>97141242>King-Maker Prime does not like solo gamesShocking. I am truly flabbergasted. In my heart of hearts I could necer have forseen this. This was unanctipable. Karama and e-jizz.
>>97141067>ObviouslyNice argument
>>97141329CE is terrible though
>>97141370So is acatan, though
>>97140352Clank and heart of crown
>>97141377catan*
Europe time. Let’s see if European anons have good taste. Post your current top 5.
>>97140990Your post makes no sense on any level. His language isn't high falutin and neither are his takes. And he's posing as the opposite of an autist because he is diametrically opposed to anything an autist would be interested in.
>>97141360You can remove the word from the statement and it's the same format as the original argument. The question remains, do you think someone who has no boardgaming experience has the same chance of winning a game (Keyflower) as someone who played it many times? If every time anyone played it under any circumstances they had the same chance of winning that would mean you can never be good/bad at it. A game where you learn nothing by playing it, gather no insight.
Is Dominion a eurogame? Why/why not?
>>97141404I barely played any, the last couple of months. Why would you not post yours top 5?
>>97140357i used to play MK on a table that size, with a decent insert it helps a lot
>>97140154Why should I put effort in playing the game if I know nothing matters and it will all come down to luck or kingmaking?
>>97140078He's a faggot stuck in the 'narrative games' avenue which I personally think is a cul-de-sac. Don't think he's particularly innovative either. Med tier designer with mid tier games, but I haven't played everything he put out and I know some people REALLY like his stuff
>>97141242i'm pretty sure his rating was more along the lines that it was just fine and not special like Magic Realm. which is a fine opinion and definitely not shitting on the game
>>97140078Sleeping Gods is OK, but requires a specific mindset to get more than that out of it. 7th Citadel shits all over it.
>>97141017Unironically this, but without solo mode
Any word on a new Barbarossa expansion? We have the eastern front, North Africa, so the obvious sequel would be the western front. But they could also switch to the Pacific and do japan attacking the u.s.
>>97140312It seems insane to me that someone would honestly think keyflower or CoB don't massively favor experienced players.The only thing that comes to mind is dexterity games, at which some people naturally are pretty good, but even these favor the experienced. Hell, even IQ tests favor those who did more IQ tests before
>>97140691>absolutely btfos the people saying theme doesnt matterI like TS and I still would like it even if it were about something else entirely so no>>97141382>300$ for clank and heart of crownwhat the fuck did they mug you in a dark alley?clank should be something like 40-50$ new, and heart of crown is some small ass filler game, shouldn't be more than 30$, how did you end up paying more than thrice their price?
>>97141914I guess the anon said "can challenge" the most experienced player, but all it comes down to is the level of player agency in a game. On one end, you have games like Risk and Monopoly which are simplistic games that are almost pure luck, and on the other you have stuff like the classic abstracts, with high skill ceilings and no luck.Personally, I think luck should play a minimal dule in 2P games, but it can play a pretty big role at higher player counts. Eclipse is a serious luck fest, but it's fine because it's a 6P game and you can't have a real expectation of winning against 5 players going into it.
>>97142015>Eclipse is a serious luck fest, but it's fineBut that's decidedly untrue. There is luck, but the best player will win way more often than not in my experience of some 17 odd games. First edition, but I don't think that matters much
>>97142077I didn't mean to imply it's on the extreme luck fests like Monopoly. It obviously has a significant skill component, and people who know what they're doing will win more often, butA) A lot of things are very random. Tech availabilities, map tiles and discovery tiles in exploration, and of course the combat introduce huge variance to the game. People can have extremely different starts based purely on the exploration.B) You can't count on 2 players not ganging up on you, even if you're doing well. Exactly what happened to me in my last game, leading a 4th guy to mass up a fleet unbothered.That said, I would put Eclipse square in the middle on the player agency scale, and it's pretty much the limit of what I can tolerate, luck-wise.
>>97141329Klaus Teuber
>>97138906The research track bumps are just an element of it. The key is recognizing what faults your opponents' factory might have, maybe they didn't leave enough space on A side of their mainlines so you can pressure them on reliability, maybe they blocked the C side of their sports cars to make space for marketers, meaning you can corner the market with a surprise Design pivot that they're not ready for and the lowest levels need the C side for, so they with their lower research won't be able to sell at the top right squares. Get creative instead of bitching about how the game doesn't easily telegraph strategies for you to consoom.
>>97142440Like I said all this is obvious from the second play on. The same two examples you all give for praise of this game doesn't make it interesting or any more playable on the table. Fiddly and boring.
>>97141657That's literaly every game once you get past the learning stage.I think you autists just don't like negotiation/kingmaking stage because you're god awful at it.
What player counts is Argent good at?
>>97142666>That's literaly every game once you get past the learning stage.Completely wrong. Do you even read what you write?
>>97142666>That's literaly every game once you get past the learning stage.
>>97141200Is it actually any good? It always seemed relatively straightforward and full of war game bloat. Not that it needs to be mind blowing but when games like Condottiere exist and are 10x faster its hard wanting to bother with it
>>97142666>negotiation/kingmakingNevermind negotation, find me someone who unironically likes kingmakingAlso I don't know what kinda games you are playing but not all boardgames, hell not even most of them devolve into negotiation games past the learning stage
I really thought I liked fiddly games until I got Dungeon Petz. I like bits and pieces of it but as a whole, it's not very cohesive. I think I'll stick with tiddlywinks
Can anyone recommend me a card game with fantasy theming that works for 2-4 players and isn't too heavy? Looking for something to play on family trips.
>>97143267What's fiddly about Dungeon Petz? Are the monster spin thingies getting loose?
>>97143274Fantasy Realms was my first thought
>>97143129>find me someone who unironically likes kingmaking
>>97143274>with fantasy themingwhat is this supposed to meananyway if you want a 2-4 family level card game get scout
>>97143287Just touching and adjusting the board state 100+ times before the next person's turn. And I somewhat I like fiddly games but that's just too much. I had an autistic ex gf who would math out the game every time and while I'm no math dunce, it was just annoying that she would have it figured out by turn 3 at the latest. I didn't mind mathing out a game but I'd much rather deal with surprises so I just don't . I know this goes against bgg's spirit but I don't care if I win or lose. I'm just trying to push the game to all it's permutations and yeah, I can sometimes wrangle a win this way, by doing stuff none of the other players thought about before. I get a lot of satisfaction from just playing a game. I've won a lot of games so it's just sort of become meaningless to me. My group is not nearly as competitive as you guys here though. Over the years I've gotten many good recs from here (some good, some atrocious) but my group is very casual compared to you guys. I'm the only one that I know of that comes here. I've told them about bgg but I didn't think they've ever actually came to 4chan. I love it when you guys discuss different strategies. It's like I get to play the game vicariously through you
>>97143304>I no longer even hold a player count preference. I find just about every count largely uninteresting. This game is a case study in how to suck the life out of a game with a poor catch up mechanism. The "meat" of the game becomes completely secondary to the jockeying for poll position that quickly becomes tiresome.
>>97142861>>97142867>>97143129There is chance and there is procedure.After you have learned the optimum, and your opponents have learned the optimum, there is only chance and negotiation.Euros just turn it into solitaire, which still leans on chance.
>>97143274clank isnt TOO bad right?
>>97143381Does skill exist in your world or not? And if it doesn't exist why do you oppose games with skill? Players are never at the EXACT level of skill. There are games where the most skilled player wins, even if he's just marginally superior.
>>97143274DragonheartIt's strictly 2p and very light but the gameplay is good is both players count cards.
>skill bad>fun bad>luck good>kingmaking goodis that his philosophy in a nutshell?
>>97141404I will do you one better, here is my top 10Twilight Struggle Spirit island Paths of Glory Triumph and Tragedy DuneFood Chain Magnate Pax PamirKemetInisTigris and Euphrates
>>97141479>If every time anyone played it under any circumstances they had the same chance of winning that would mean you can never be good/bad at it. This. That anon is a retard.
>>97140361>hat on the third one is the wrong way roundaaaaaaAAAAAAAA I HATE ITWHYWHYYYYYYYY
>>97143458Pretty much yes, if all the quotes posted on here are real and not made upI guess it's true he's the neil druckmann of boardgames
>>97143447Skill is a matter of where you are on a learning process. When you are done learning, it's just optimal play with chance interfering.Combinatoric games assume optimum play between players with the same info and skill.Chance does not care about skill.Being able to see through a convoluted control scheme is a skill, but still subject to learning the optimum.When you have onky skilled players chance matters more.These are not my opinions, these are the mathematicaly proven relationships between these things. Conway solved Combinatorics so hard he invented the surreal numbers.Chance just obscures optimum as does a convoluted control mechanism.Kingmaking is just negotiation through a turn structure. There is always negotiation.If you are playing between multiple people of different skill then the higher are just shooting fish in a barrel to boost thier ego.You play with others at your level of learning the particular process.Then it's just negotiation at the optimum.
>>97143458>>97143599Unlike Neil though, Cole has made games that are actually fun before.
>>97143599Imagine being the equivalent of a jewish hack in your medium.
>>97143605that's incredibly reductionistic and devoid of any nuance whatsoeveryou won't see people calling everything a negotiation game just because it's high in interaction, there are more kinds of interaction and negotiation is just one of them>>97143621yes but Root isn't one of them
>>97143381>After you have learned the optimum, and your opponents have learned the optimum, there is only chance and negotiation.This only applies to games that have obvious optimums. I.e., only games maybe you play.>>97143458Sounds about right. Works for brainlets and absolves him of shit design choices.
>>97143605What do you mean by "negotiation"?
>>97143676he probably thinks all interaction equals "negotiation"
>>97143274https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG80534lGJE
>>97143733He wants something he can play in the car readlet
>>97143381How do you even know what the optimum is in, let's say, a 6p dune game?
>>97143664High interaction is just obscurment
>>97143676>>97143686An exchange outside what the rules explicitly stateTalking is the simplest
>>97143790Dune is a negotiation game. Obscure does not mean non-existent.Obscurement enables negotiation.You can negotiate without optimum. Knowing it just forces negotiation.
>>97143842I don't need to negotiate jack shit as a bene gesserit powered atreides that has been properly tracking everybody's cards
>>97143381Ok now explain how hungry hungry hippos on a car ride involves negotiation and kingmaking
NEW THREAD>>97143932NEW THREAD>>97143932NEW THREAD>>97143932NEW THREAD>>97143932
>>97143884FOO strategies destroy any game.Skill doesn't matter, chance doesn't matter, it's FOO. First Order OPTIMAL
>>97143904Making your siblings emotional and irritating your parents
>>97143939Please explain how properly executing a strategy and beating the table is kingmaking
>>97143966The kingmaking is when the table openly groups up to stop it, even preemptive. If the FOO IS obvious enough they just won't play
