>TQ
When I get to use them on someone else, it feels pretty good, but when it gets used on me it feels really bad. Worse than losing a fight. I would probably make it so player characters can just full no-sell social influence for free if it makes them uncomfortable.

>>97164080
>TQ
As is the case with many things in Exalted, my experience is that the 3E social system is a good idea poorly implemented. The importance of Intimacies is pretty intuitive, the system mostly makes sense, and in my experience most players are fine with their characters, too, being influenced. The system's clunky as fuck, though, and it takes far too much time if you're trying to do something more dramatic than persuade someone to do something his pre-existing Intimacies already support. I'm fine with changing someone's worldview being difficult even for an Exalt, but grinding Intimacies from Minor to Major to Defining isn't so much difficult as tedious. I think the persuasion part of tge system works pretty okay but instilling new Intimacies needs work. Also social Charms don't add enough power or interesting new tricks over just using an Excellency and rolling a whole lot of dice. 3E's the edition I've actually played, though I first got interested in Exalted in 2E days, so I can't say much about 1E or 2E social rules.

>>97164080
>TQ
As a Storyteller, it's a fun way to engage players and give them alternate routes. As a player, it's a way to edge around problems, but on the receiving end it feels about the same level as taking crippling injuries (and in 3e, you're often doing so after a long and grueling fight that's left you at your opponent's mercy to inflict as many more injuries as they like).

I have noticed that being subject to mind controlling charms, artifacts, and spells that work within clearly defined bounds is much more tolerable than the broad strokes anything goes of standard social combat. I think 2e's social combat is the best thought out, with extra successes making social influence harder to resist but a maximum cap on the amount you can be forced to spend Willpower in a scene putting a limit on the amount of harm that can be done. I think 3e's Intimacies look the nicest on paper, but that it's actual social influence system is the worst in practice, boiling down to the worst of 2e's perfect defense meta with willpower in place of motes. I think Essence does alright and has good ideas, but that it dropped the ball on execution (especially of hard bargains).

In terms of where I'd take it, my first priority would be to make social influence as an idea much less adversarial. I'm not sure how I'd do that, but I'd be taking cues from Essence first of all, but I'd take them from the Great Curse section before the social section. To be less vague, my first draft would be that you can opt into following social influence actions which target your intimacies, giving you some kind of goals or emotions to play out, and successfully doing so should offer some kind of reward. It should be possible to play around with the social influence from the player's end, to reinterpret or discard specific tasks to fit with the spirit of the request, or to cite their other Intimacies or emotions (or virtues if we used them) to put limits on what the influence can ask.

>>97164080
>>TQ: What're your experiences with the social systems in Exalted and what you would do to change them?
It reshapes every social interaction into one that fits under the umbrella of social rules, turning every conversation into something incomprehensible and autistic for the sake of mechanical benefit.

>>97164210
This. It makes me want to deal with everything with fighting instead of talking

>>97164210
How does that happen? Figuring out what the other guy thinks and wants and framing your arguments appropriately should fit alongside normal role-played discussion pretty naturally.

>>97164316
In theory sure, but I play games and know it just gets fucking weird and stupid in ways that are hard to even describe.

>>97164320
I'm asking because I also run Exalted, not at the moment but in the past and hopefully in the future, and my experience is more that people RP discussion and the I go "okay, roll to persuade him", maybe asking for clarification on what the player is trying to achiece. I have my issues with the system, ones I detailed here >>97164172, but it sounds like you and I have encountered a pretty different set of issues.

>>97164335
>I tell him whatever I want to tell him
vs
>I say this in a way that would be considered an Instill action, though this is also not the thing I would have normally said under different mechanical circumstances because I can't start with the most persuasive proof I have because I need to save it for later to bump the Intimacy up another step

Demake/ExWoD vs Quixalted Extended? Which one do you like more and why?

>>97164342
What are you asking for that needs an Intimacy to be as high as it can go? Major gets you about everything short of convincing a peasant to throw hands with a Dragon-blooded samurai.

>>97164342
>I say this in a way that would be considered an Instill action
This part is fine, because if you're trying to instill then whatever you want to tell the guy should be instill anyway. If you just wanted to convey information it doesn't take a social action, and if you just wanted to persuade the guy to do something then that doesn't take instill actions. Instill is pretty specifically for improving relations, convincing someone that your principles are correct, and indoctrination. It's not something you use to actually persuade people to do things, and frankly the fact that it's fast enough for people to use it to facilitate persuade actions is a detriment to the system.

>I can't start with the most persuasive proof I have because I need to save it for later to bump the Intimacy up another step
This is definitely a huge problem with the social system, yes. The fact that you have to start weak and get stronger doesn't have any similarity to real conversation, but the way social resets work is very blunt and basically requires it. Normal conversation would have you use your most persuasive argument first, then fall back on secondary and tertiary arguments to try to weigh the scales further.

>>97164380
You've given your autism away with this pedantic hyperfixating. It's no wonder you don't see anything wrong with it. You'll just have to take my word for it.

>>97164393
Because it sounds like you didn't read, or failed to put together the underlying position, I'll simplify.

It sounds like you're using the system wrong, and that's why you think it's bad.

>>97164378
And lots of Charms can stage up the effective level of one, too.

>>97164461
No, he's right. In order to interface with the system correctly you tend to make really stilted, weird interactions. It does not sound good in play, and it certainly doesn't make interactions sound natural.

>>97164370
Neither really. They're both still a little too complicated.

>>97164501
>No, he's right. In order to interface with the system correctly you tend to make really stilted, weird interactions. It does not sound good in play, and it certainly doesn't make interactions sound natural.
No, some of what is he said is right, and some of what he said is wrong. Everything you have said in this post is right, but he's said different things to what you've said, which I was pointing out as wrong.

The social system is pretty great from my experience. It can get a bit bogged down from a player perspective trying to figure out what works with what sometimes but this goes for 2e and 3e. It's also really nice to have a non-combat option to resolve things.

It also works really well with War and the Cult merit. Lots of really good RP options. Having a warband is super underrated.

>>97164588
You're kind of giving truth to his autistic pedantry insult. There's no need to slice it this thin; his basic point was that the system makes you structure your conversations in bad ways in order to get maximum benefit. I think we can all agree that it's not great and keep going from there.

>>97164614
NTA but we obviously can't agree that the system makes you structure your arguments in such a way, or perhaps it's more accurate to say that it doesn't seem to happen at every table.

>>97164614
I don't really agree with this. Combat charms "structure" your combat in ways that people game for maximum benefit. I mean, people 100% whine when there character loses a fight but the structure it adds itself isn't a bad thing.

desu i'm not really even sure by what you mean when it comes to "structure in bad ways". This never seemed at all hard for me or the tables I've been at.

>>97164632
I used the word stilted before, but I would also say unnatural and stiff. When people are using the system, their dialogue tends to be really bad if they bother using it at all instead of just truncating the statements into summaries. That's been my experience, you're free to say that you've never seen that before but if you do then I really don't know what else to tell you or how to continue this conversation meaningfully. Cool story bro?

>>97164614
It wasn't really an insult. He really is just autistic and there's no helping it. It is what it is.

It's pointless to continue to explain it to him. His brain is just fundamentally wired differently and he will never get it.

>>97164648
I suppose because I just can't relate. My big issue with the social system, in both 2e and 3e, is that it can be confusing with how all the charms work together and which ones can be used at the same time.

I've seen unnatural and stuff conversations but those exist in any game where people are trying to talk as their characters. It can be hard some times...

>>97164655
Anon, I think it's pretty clear that anon understood you but doesn't agree and has different experiences with the game.

>>97164574

So what do you prefer ? Essence, or a game hack like Fate or Cortex ?

How do you handle time skips in a campaign? You ever had one go past essence 5? Obviously there's charms for getting to E6 in your first century but that's a lot of EXP required.

>>97164710
I've run the setting through a bunch of hacks like Fate, yeah. The mechanics are the thing that really hold this game back in my opinion.

>>97164247
Join battle defense cannot be beaten

>conversation starts
>use Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique

>>97164770
>How do you handle time skips in a campaign?
It depends on the format. I pretty regularly run games revolving around fairly short and mostly self-contained stories/events set with a couple weeks or months of downtime between them.

Typically, when I don't do that and leave it unstructured, pacing goes out the window and there is never any downtime. If it's do-as-thou-wilt downtime where anything can happen, the crafter crafts and the sorcerer sorcs, but everybody else either makes problems that should have story time dedicated to them, or sits around bored as all hell. What ends up happening is that I say 'hey nothing in particular's going on do what you want' and whoever had a plan for downtime tries to do their plan, but whoever had an idea or something they wanted to follow up on goes to follow up on and it is inevitable that that person is going to do something interesting enough that it is no longer downtime. Travel times may be the only case where this isn't true and people are willing to sit down and let things pass by, which is really annoying to me because interacting with things while you travel is one of the things I really do actually want to do.

>You ever had one go past essence 5?
We got a little into E5 once in 3e, but stopped quickly, mostly because the players had outgrown all of the plans I had for the campaign. We could've gone up to E5 in Essence pretty easily too, but chose not to because people preferred the stories they got at Essence 3.

>>97164845
Eh, people can roll social influence in combat, too.

>>97164845
Shut-Your-Bitch-Ass-Up Kata

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>>97164845
I pump join battle to start conversations faster. We are not the same.

>>97164845
my infernal charm means no matter what you do i am faster then you

>>97164866
Doesn't matter. Join battle exists before that. And now that we have joined battle I'm going to Stone Cold stunner you into submission

>>97164861
Wake up, babe, new solar charm just dropped. I can reflexively join battle whenever anybody attempts to exert influence over me. Until the battle is concluded, I am immune to all influence, even influence that says I can't be immune.

>>97164866
In 2e Adorjan had Joy In Violence Approach that gave bonuses and restored WP if you responded to social attacks with Join Battle rolls. I think the devs were aware of this.

>>97164857
Probably for the best. It sucks to be ambushed by someone exploiting a weakness.

>>97164898
That's-What-I-Fucking-Thought-Bitch Mudra. This permanently upgrades Shut-Your-Bitch-Ass-Up Kata. It's cost is fully refunded if you clearly defeat the enemy who tried to influence you or the enemy flees from the battle.

>>97164898
>>97164957
You make that, the Eclipse makes a charm letting their anima power's diplomatic immunity extend to all things.

>>97164370
I didn't like the rolling target numbers of Demake, but it has some good ideas in it. QE is really good if you're a Lunar/Dragonblooded/Solar/Abyssal fan. Sidereals are also great but need some consideration because of their closed charmsets, Alchemicals are also good.

He made Infernals really discordant to their 2e depictions, but there's bones of something good there.

I was going to suggest DnD if you were all so obsessed with combat but then realized that there would be much crying the moment you lost a will save vs a fear spell.

its so confusing but at least i know for sure it's a your table problem instead of something that applies to the game as a whole.

>>97164977
Interesting theory, but sybau

>>97164986
Man what's the problem? It's a perfectly fine charm idea and really fun too. Meshes up with the martial arts trope of hands over words. You can't talk the God Hand out of this. You must defeat him.

I'm curious how often do your characters actually embody the primary themes of their Castes?

>>97164866
Infernals and Abyssals have a Charm for that too, to be fair. And I think Solars still have the best overland out of combat speed travel Charm, simply because of how comically jank the scale of Mountain-Crossing Leap is in 3e.

>>97165011
I only run games, I never get to play, but when making NPCs I usually don't think about the Caste all that much. I start with the concept, move on to mechanics without worrying about Caste Abilities and costs and such, and pick a Caste that more or less seems to fit the character. So mostly they don't really embody their Caste that much. The one time I did get to play, in a game that didn't last long, I guess my Twilight was pretty Twilight-y, though. He was a sorcerer and scholar, illiterate, though, but learned, a shaman-like character who'd first learned the oral traditions of his people and had later studied with various gods and other spirits. He firmly believed that relying on written word rather than your memory makes people go mentally lazy, soft and unfocused. He might've eventually seen the benefits of writing if the game had gone on longer.

>>97165007
>Meshes up with the martial arts trope of hands over words.
That's not a martial arts trope, that's a sword and sorcery trope. The martial arts trope is that they earn each others respect via hands and use that as a bridge to communicate, usually with words. People coming to terms and trying to explain and talk each other into to their ideals over blows is so core to wuxia it's honestly a shock to think that you could rationally assert otherwise.

>>97165070
They talk after they beat each other up in all the media I've ever consumed, if they ever talk at all, and usually they still disagree. For me, that's over 30 years of movies, anime, video games, etc. I'm not sure how much of that would count as wuxia, but I guarantee you they almost never came to a peaceable understanding. Do not try to lecture me on my own favorite genre, fag.

>>97165085
>Do not try to lecture me on my own favorite genre, fag
Not a good path to take anon. There's always someone nerdier and more invested.

>>97165085
Name 5 wuxia books or 20 derivative works from said books.

>>97165105
I said martial arts you fag, wuxia is wuxia.
>>97165085
I don't give a fuck. I love martial arts movies and my entire lifetime of watching them says whatever you're talking about ain't what I'm watching and is both irrelevant to the tropes I invoke and has no precedence over them.

>>97165131
Worthless retard.

>>97165134
Hey, I'm not some faggot trying to impose different genre rules on something most people are aware of. Even if you want to say that's not Chinese enough, it's certainly Japanese martial arts enough. They often go out of their way to make a point that the time for talking is over before they even met, or saying things like words are useless. The only way to interact is to fight and that's a fucking plot point there. It doesn't happen every time but it happens enough to have hackneyed lines. Those are equally valid inspirations and you can piss off.

>>97165151
You don't even know what genre is being talked about you retard.

>>97165156
I know exactly what I'm talking about, I don't care about whatever other thing you're trying to insist on.

>>97165190
Anon, you're anonymous. Your cred counts for nothing, you need to prove your arguments every time.

Not all martial arts media is wuxia. Wuxia is an extremely specific subgenre within martial arts with a lot of its own quirks, tropes, and baggage. It's basically what Isekai anime is to fantasy in terms of being its own interpretation. It's clear this guy is not talking about wuxia and is instead talking about Bruce Lee and maybe some sengoku cinema style stuff. If he's talking about anime, he's definitely not talking about wuxia. There is definitely a huge section of the martial arts genre where talk no jutsu doesn't work. That's probably what he's calling on. It's first thing in the morning I can't believe we have to do one of these already.

>>97165011
I usually make Dawns and I usually make fighter types, so I try my best to make interesting spins on the existing theme. In fact I rarely ever make Zeniths because I can't get into the right headspace for them.

>>97165247
trying to pretend you're someone else won't work

>>97165247
>Wuxia.
>overly specific.
It has a lot of variations, specially how tge rivers and lakes are handled.

>>97165247

>If he's talking about anime, he's definitely not talking about wuxia.
You underestimate how influential wuxia is for anime, the current most popular one (Demon Slayer) even takes place in a wuxia setting

>>97165278
>>97165290
>>97165351
Niggers, saying wuxia is the martial arts genre is stupid. I know it's tvtropes but
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Wuxia
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartialArtsMovie
Wuxia is a subgenre with a lot of its own shit. It's just fact. It doesn't represent the whole of martial arts media, or even the majority of it. Do not continue a pointless argument that is at best tangential and at worst an active detriment to the thread. Literally hating on a charm idea like absolute clowns

>>97165371
you're the dumbest retard ITT right now

>>97165375
Every single thing I look up on wuxia describes it as a subgenre of chinese fiction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia Here's another.
https://jflee.co/what-is-wuxia And another.
https://www.heroic-cinema.com/eric/xia.html here's another one that gets into all of its extreme specifics.
How many more do you need to understand wuxia is very specific to chinese fiction? How many more before you drop an inane point?

>>97165390
kek what a genuine fucking moron

>>97165371
>Kimetsu no Yaba.
>Not wuxia.
Anon... it literally takes place in a rivers and lake setting, and the breathing techniques are the illusionary attacks from wuxia.
In wuxia, the master swordsman attacks in such a fiery way, that the onlookers see his enemies catching fire.

>>97165397
I can't hear you over all these things saying is a chinese fiction subgenre
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/wuxia
https://www.dreamscapepublishing.com/blog/
https://www.mylifemytao.com/xianxia-wuxia-cultivation-and-more-a-small-explanation/
https://bookriot.com/wuxia-novels/exploring-martial-worlds/
It's like a thing has a specific meaning.
>>97165408
From literally everything I'm reading, wuxia is very extremely chinese because it's a cultural heritage. You could ask to see if the guy was inspired by it, but being familiar with that work, I can say it's super Japanese in its characters, setting, attitudes, and so on.

this is 100% the same autist who got confused by people's problems with the social system

>>97165430
Oh hey check it out, the wuxia society. They oughta know/
https://wuxiasociety.com/wuxia
>Wuxia (simplified: 武侠, traditional: 武俠, pinyin: wǔxiá) is a genre of Chinese fiction that combines martial arts (武 – wǔ) with chivalry (俠 – xiá). The term literally means “martial chivalry” and refers to stories featuring heroes who use extraordinary martial abilities to uphold justice, protect the weak, and navigate the complex moral landscape of the jianghu—the underground martial arts world.
Wow. It's a fucking chinese fiction genre. Look, I'm not saying it's bad, but it's specific. It's not a broad thing like "action" or even "martial arts"

>>97165436
The people saying everything is wuxia or the one with sources?

>>97165481
I didn't say everything is wuxia, only that it deeply inspired anime.
To the point the only reason that you can't say DS isn't wuxia, is because it takes place in a Japanese countryside instead of a Chinese one.

>>97165450
>Wow. It's a fucking chinese fiction genre. Look, I'm not saying it's bad, but it's specific. It's not a broad thing like "action" or even "martial arts"
Okay, but Exalted is very explicitly wuxia. I can cite sources out of every single splat and core book's source section. So, since according to you martial arts excludes wuxia and we shouldn't be talking about it, why would you even bring up martial arts movie tropes >>97165007 when that is not what Exalted is about?

>>97165450
Burn Legend is martial arts, Exalted is wuxia. Got it.

>>97165510
>Okay, but Exalted is very explicitly wuxia
Not really; not enough disgraced young masters for you character to help, and the devs went out to nuke the "rivers and lakes" underworld.

>>97165371
>linking to TvTroons

>>97165510
Exalted is also Homer and fucking Naruto. It takes from many inspirations but it is not any of them by itself. Don't die on a retarded hill

>>97165524
Burn Legend is Street Fighter. Too Japanese to be wuxia.

>>97165510
My Exalted is indian coded, thank you.
>>97165499
It also has none of the standard characters or ideas or storylines. It does have magical swordsmen, but so did bleach

>>97164080
Have any of the companion documents containing the stretch goals for the 3e KS campaigns been released yet? If so, where can I find them please?

>>97165594
I literally told you three threads ago that they were in the mediafire trove! I even gave you all the titles!

>>97165590
>kny.
>Magical swordsmen.
It was mentioned before hand that they operate on a wuxia illusionary logic.

>>97165623
So do sports manga, but nobody is looking to put Inazuma 11 up as wuxia.

>>97165623
This is absolute cope. KnY is as unwuxia as it gets.

>>97165632
Because they were also influenced by wuxia, Chinese novels heavily influenced anime and manga.

>>97165642
It literally takes place in a jiangu, to the point people were perplexed by the fact it is set in the early 20th century.

>>97165660
Pure cope. Are you a chinese national or something? How did you get past the great firewall? Is this a propaganda mission?

>>97165660
Japanese guys are not reading wuxia novels, my dude, especially not as inspiration for a soccer manga. You are on some wild shit right now and you're better off just quitting while you're ahead.

>>97165608
I didn't see that. Huh, I thought that they would be titled X Companion, explains why I didn't find them. Which is your favorite, BTW?

>>97165671
I am just an anime fan, who used to post in the forum era of the internet.
So I am familiar with what influenced nekketsu, and also about quantum physics too.

>>97165682
>Japanese guys are not reading wuxia novels, my dude, especially not as inspiration for a soccer manga
Tell this to Kurumada.

>>97165682
>Japanese guys are not reading wuxia novels
bro...

>>97165706
I also post on 5ch. Wuxia is referred to as slop.

>>97165713
>fluent in 12 languages despite his IQ of 65
very impressive

It's possible I missed an interview, but 99% of authors in Japan cite their inspiration as fucking Dragonball and Conan. Whence does this fanfiction of everyone on the hot wuxia novels come from?

>>97165727
Dragonball, one piece, conan, hunterxhunter, getter robo, fruits basket. Any others I'm missing?

>>97165727
>99% of authors in Japan cite their inspiration as fucking Dragonball and Conan.
He has eyes, but cannot see mount meru.

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>>97165727
actual fucking mongoloid

>>97165742
Sorry, man, you sayin some hot bullshit and I had to clock you. Dragonball is extremely vaguely journey to the west, which I wouldn't argue is Wuxia as much as Momotaro would be, but Detective Conan? Get out of here, you're drunk and too busy trying to be right to listen to yourself.

>>97165741
Saint Seiya and Hokuto no Ken.

>>97165755
No, he's right. Those are pretty much the most referenced works, and neither of them are wuxia.

>>97165769
>refers to himself in third person
very fitting for a dumb fuck caveman

>>97165727
>Conan
Detective or barbarian?

>>97165781
Obviously Detective Conan. Huge inspiration for aspiring manga authors.

>>97165775
Hmm?

>>97165781
Detective.
The Japanese gets their sword and sorcery, or western fantasy in general, through dungeons & dragons instead.

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>>97165755
As an animefag, I fail to see the problem.

>>97165481
The anon you're replying to. He literally announced it, "this is the same autist...", and aside from it is pretty autistic, as in actually showing a lacking comprehension of how communication works, to make a post like that, replying to no one and making a statement about someone without specifying who he's talking about. That anon's unlikely to be the only autist ITT, but there's 0% chance of him being neurotypical.

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>>97164851
people basically do this irl, if they want to avoid a conversation with someone annoying they'll leave the room and make up an excuse.

just imagining someone about to their gay hypnosis on you and you jump 10 miles into the sky until he goes away.

>>97166323
cringe pic bro

>>97166323
kino pic bro

>>97166323
Mediocre pic bro

>>97166323
Decent pic bro

>>97166323
a pic bro

Did Proton anon upload the artefacts yet?

>>97166323
does anyone have that picture of ligier coloured like that?

What’s a Sidereal got to do around here to score some Raksha pussy?

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>>97164080
She deserved better. I hope we at least get proper art for her. And maybe an appearance in the Infernals companion if not the main book. What are your hopes for that, BTW?

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>>97167217
>What are your hopes for that, BTW?
More artifacts and MAs, mostly.

While I'm not quite as down on 3e's art direction as most on /tg/, I nonetheless don't want them touching Verdigris's illustration. I think the ship's sailed on getting any of the 2e-era illustrators back, but, like, HELLPIERCERS has some pretty sick art in it, and I think it'd be cool have something like for some of the Infernals.

>>97167286
>. I think the ship's sailed on getting any of the 2e-era illustrators back
Some famous ones are still working on the game line, the problem is entirely on the art direction.

>>97167217
>I hope we at least get proper art for her. And maybe an appearance in the Infernals companion if not the main book.
No I want her ignored and forgotten by the 3e devs. Knowing them they would make her an ugly black paraplegic tranny.

>>97167521
She's fat, gay, was a man, and has 4 septum piercings.

I promised some anon in the last thread to give my opinion on Infernal Brawl Charms once I've read them, so here I am. I felt things were off to a bad start when I read Calloused Devil-Knuckles with its rerolling 6s, though guess the way core handled things kind of forces subsequent splats to have Charms like that, too. Once I got to Slavering Horror Maw I felt like things started to get interesting, though. I don't think the Charms gimmick about infected wounds or the Keys letting you spread disease are particularly useful in the vast majority of fights, but it's definitely a flavorful Charm. There are some other effects in the Brawl Charms that are flavorful but whose practical applications I'm skeptical about, particularly the Charms that do something extra against foes smaller than you. I doubt that's going to come up all that often. There are some boring but practical effects, of course, but luckily not all that many.There's more love for grappling than punching, I feel. Some cool grappling Charms, though. World-Breaker Grip and Screaming Meat Shield letting you use the guy you're grappling as a weapon is nice, Collapsing Horizon Point seems both powerful and fun to picture, and Crack the Sky potentially letting you toss your foe [Essence x 5] miles away is over the top in the very best way. While I said that grappling gets more fun, One Hand Fury and Infernal Monster Awakened used with it seems very nice. Costly, though, especially with the optional surcharge for the extra effects of IMA opened by having OHF, since IMA's Instant. I'm not sure how the bonus Strength dots from IMA work, since they'd do nothing if they lasted as long as the Charm but I don't see anything indicating how long they do last. It's late enough here that I'm thinking about going to bed soon, though, so maybe I'm just too tired to think straight here. All in all good, flavorful Charms, though there's a bit too much re-rolling 6s to my liking.

>>97167286
>>97167439
Sadly even the old guard is not what they used to be. Mel-Uran for example just plain doesn't hit the same notes anymore. It's a shame.

>>97167639
Like I said it is a question of art direction, Mel's work for down below is better than the recent ones for 3e.

>>97167639
>>97167646
I agree, the down below / at the gates art is leagues better even when it's the same artist. I think there's just someone on the 3e side that constantly adds "By the way make sure it's gay and lame" to the art notes.

there hasn't been any truly BAD art recently, but a lot of it is lacking in drip, aura, chic or style. That's bad for a game like Exalted.

>>97167668
The art does feel basic but I felt the same for 2e art so it's not exactly a downgrade. more like a sidegrade.

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>>97168230

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>>97168244
2e's

>>97168259
there is that shota sex comic along with some really hideous 2e art. Not that all 2e art is bad but it sure as shit wasn't great all the time. Very 2006 deviantart vibe to a lot of it.

>>97168289
1e also had mother & son shota incest.

>Person criticize 2e's magical realm.
>another mentions 1e also having it.
>Thread becomes awkwardly silent.

>>97168332
it hasn't even been 10 min you nerd.
>>97168302
3e pulled a Tiny Toons by having one of the Suns GF's turned into his daughter. I don't get what fetish that is but I know it's not unintentional.

>>97168302
>1e also had mother & son shota incest.
I don't remember that, where was it?

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So, what's everyone's favourite new spell? Which one has the best control effect?

>>97168372
Like tiny towns it was accidental.

>>97168410
Aspect wood, one of the appendix examples (Cynis Anbor) was taken as a lover by his mother when he was 11 years old.

>>97168473
I don't think Cynis Anbor is anyone's magical realm. He's pretty clearly written to shock and disgust, not to arouse. It's edgy, not erotic.

>>97164957
>>97164898
>>97164861
These were fun and I hate that autism distracted from iterating on it.

>>97168612
it really wasn't.

>>97168244
that nigga had aura on the right.

>>97168658
I disagree. It's a concept for real content, it's not yapping about an NPC, it was a little funny. That makes it about 20x better than the usual stuff we have flowing through these threads. Fill it out and we might have something worthwhile for a change

>>97168722
> concept for real content

no, it wasn't. i hate to be the fun police but it was just some retards giggling at a joke that was never funny.

>>97168592
The text explicitly calls it out in extremely negative terms, so we can generally assume that, yes. Though there's also the potential for just being a spectacle, in the sense of "hey get a load of this shit", since I'm fairly certain Anbor is a Psycho reference (The name is a bit close to being on the nose).

>>97168753
Then stop being the fun police because I thought it was fun and you're a downer. If that's all you're here to do, nigger, I might do a writeup of my own

>>97168722
Since it's about combat really, where do you think it should go? I'm feeling brawl because it feels thematic, but is that too much overreach on that ability? Can we cross the streams like that? There's always integrity i guess

>>97168770
It was less "negative" and more a spectacle like you said, mainly because of his attractiveness.

>>97168827
As much as I'd love to have it in Brawl it does sound like it'd be stepping on integrity's toes too much. But because you only get the benefit from starting a fight, I think it can be fairly low requirement. I feel like 1 WP at least for the cost, but it can't cost too much

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>>97164080
I think 3e's social system goes a long way, but the Willpower shit and the way its implemented is bizarrely vague. The 1wp for npcs is just...an attrition thing, and the main incentive for you not to use it is...your players will get pissed off? There's probably a way more engaging system or set of rubrics for when an NPC will or won't use it rather than what we have. It's a weak point in the system from an ST perspective.

>>97168872
Since Abyssals, the difference of the abilities functions got a little bit more blurry in 3e.
And there's also the Janest debacle.

>>97168778
>I might do a writeup of my own

No, you won't.

>>97168778
>I might do a writeup of my own
I actually know for a fact you won't, sorry.

>>97168938
Brawl is fine, then. Brawl 3 Essence 2, maybe? 3m, 1Wp

>>97168953
>>97168955
Get a trip so I can filter you.
>>97169016
Prerequisite should be Iron Battle Focus, just for the vibe and not as much because it's a direct outgrowth of that charm. 5 motes, 1 Willpower seems more fair for a long duration effect. The original posts laid out enough of the rules, but gimme a little bit to see if there's anything amiss and maybe write it a little cleaner.

>>97169091
Try to hurry. I'm honestly curious about what you think is good charm design.

>>97169091
Righteous Warrior's Indignation
Cost: 5m 1wp; Mins: Brawl 3, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: None
Duration: Special
Prerequisite Charms: Iron Battle Focus
The Lawgiver may entertain prayers and politicking for a time, but when his patience has run thin, he answers lies with thunder. When resisting social influence or any magic which seeks to force itself upon the Solar’s will or mind, and the character who is attempting or delivering the influence is present in the scene, he may use this Charm to deny the triggering effect and then must immediately roll Join Battle. The Solar must battle the character which attempted to influence him in earnest and during this time, the Solar can deny any further attempts at influence, mundane or magical. This charm's effects end when the triggering character can no longer be reasonably attacked (such has having escaped or withdrawing behind an impenetrable barrier) or has been incapacitated. If the Solar chooses to abandon this combat early, the Solar loses an additional 1 WP and the original influence is resolved as if this Charm had never been used.

Just a quick first pass. The ability to basically bounce everything off you is balanced by the fact that you HAVE to commit to this fight and either the dude trying to influence you (or the vector he's using) has to be there for you to beat up. Pussying out also carries a penalty.

>>97169272
The WPnpenalty might be too much. Being forced to knock him out is enough of a balancing portion. I agree about having to suffer the original influence too if you choose to quit

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Which splats have the easiest time working round / ignoring the minimum strength requirements for feats of strength? Did they ever walk back the whole not being able to lift a mountain because of lack of leverage thing from the core book?

>>97165011
Once per session, to get that sweet caste xp

>>97169309
I guess that's alright. Mostly I wanna make sure that while this is a strong option for defending yourself and especially in combat, it doesnt take the place of all your other brainshields and that you can't cheese it.

>>97169328
i'm pretty sure lunars are the only guys who have a charm that talks about increasing leverage, but I don't think they can lift a mountain.

>>97169402
Infernals do that as well - and I think they probably can lift mountains if they've taken Universe-Collapsing Juggernaut Beast.

>>97167646
I blame Mel growing complacent. And Mel prices are also very high. Small art piece on half page? 5000-8000.
Full page piece is 10-12k.

Now look at how much they wanted on backer kit for Infernals. How many Mel art they could buy if they meet only minimum goal?

>>97169272
pretty trash. perfect mental dodge into a join combat is also incredibly basic. Also I take it this is for 3e?

>>97167629
Thank you for your contributions. I think someone thought they were being cute by giving Infernals the ole 666 motif, mechanically. Yeah Brawl is weird in that in starts off being subpar as Solaroid level fistfighting goes, then gives you the cool but debatably useful Metagaos Charms, and then towards the end Brawl gives grappling more love than striking even though One Hand Fury seems to imply part of the design concept for Infernal Brawl is that a Primordial Brawl Infernal is gunning for that from the start to offset a relatively weak striking game. Re: IMA, far as I can tell there’s nothing to suggest it doesn’t last as long as the Charm does. Which again makes me SUSPECT it’s meant more to enhance higher Essence Brawl Charms than be good on it’s own. Crack The Sky does create the amusing image of a reverse-Mountain Crossing Leap solution to a fight for an Infernal: Surprise grapplefuck someone, give them Metagaos AIDS, hurl them as far away as you can and preferably into difficult terrain, then fuck off to another city and wait for the poor guy to die from Morbidity rolls. As for “fuck over guy smaller than you” that seems BLATANTLY meant to synergise with Devil-Body or Universe-Collapsing Juggernaut Beast even if you don’t take the Giant mutation.

1/2

>>97169560
This doesn't explain the difference of quality between exalted and at the gates, the line art is very different.

>prices.
Unfortunately the 100~200 dollars artists went to do furry porn.

>>97167629
This combined with Unrelenting Hellbound Might and some of the other ability charmtrees makes me think at least part of the design idea was that Infernals can fuck people up with other abilities so Brawl is meant to be more of a slowburn to help you survive more than win outright while the Infernal whips out other tricks here and there. Which much like the Metagaos Brawl Charms, seems fun but questionable mechanically.

All in all, cool Charmset despite the boring but practical Charms and the questionable mechanical value. I’ve always said that I’d rather have interesting Infernal Charms than powerful ones if I absolutely had to pick one type, so even though Solar Brawl seems decisively better at actually winning a fight on it’s own and Abyssal Brawl seems to have a more clearcut path to victory, I do like it provides options the other Solaroids can’t. Collapsing Horizon Point and the other multi-grapple attack Charms in particular seem like a good opening for leveraging Brawl against multiple opponents with more finesse than, say, Shockwave Technique or Crashing Wave Throw.

2/2

>>97169592
The dice tricks? It is because of Solars embody perfection (remove 1s) while Infernals were twisted mirrors of it (reroll 10s), but the devs seem to have decided that it wasn't a good idea.

>>97169600
What do you think about the performance charms? I'm interested in what skills they might best mesh with. Athletics seems obvious but I'm sure there are plenty of cooler options.

>>97169594
Because exalted went to shit and she's just phoning it in

>>97169604
Ergh. Sounds kind of weird and finicky in practice. Not sure if it would've been better.

>>97169608
So.

>All Must Dance
First off, the fact that non-Excellency Performance Charms waive multiple target penalties makes Ride a nobrainer just for getting up close and hitting people with those penalties. Hallucinatory Nightmare Motion has Living Shallow Gallop that ensures mundane barriers and obstacles won't protect people from the dance dance revolution while everything else related to motion makes it harder to outrun you.

Stealth is ironically even better. Noon-as-Night Invocation and Dragon's Lair Obtenebration (if you're willing to invest deeply) penalises other Presence rolls, Faster Than Sight lets you sneak up on people before hitting them with Dancing Sinner Choreography. Or Demon_Wracking Shout if you're feeling mean. If you're heading near a Deathlord's domain, you of course want Wickedness Beyond Life from Occult to ensure anything that procs on demons also procs on ghosts. I...could have sworn there were more options to turn people into Creatures of Darkness which would make them more susceptible to Sable Revelry Summons but I can't find any.

Larceny has some cool but mechanically questionable interactions like Ego-Devouring Enmity stripping away someone's social identity, which I guess you could stunt a performance to take advantage of? Shadow Spite Curse at least is a straightforward "You suck" curse that's useful in basically any conflict. If you can construe performance as an answer to prayer somehow, Presence becomes even more relevant: Penitents Like Scattered Grains and it's Keys let you show up with a sudden musical number in response to prayers or your cultists spotting something interesting.

1/2

>>97169608
More straightforwardly, Infernal Ardor Intensity offers benefits for succumbing to your own performance and Roaring Sovereign Oration lets you be heard out to ESSENCE + CHARISMA RANGE BANDS which jesus, that's a lot of range bands. And it becomes permanent at Presence 5 Essence 5 too! Last but not least, Flesh-Scorning Flagellation over in Dodge is always useful for performers willing to make that investment simply because it makes combat from anyone who can't punch spirits irrelevant.

As for what I think about Performance in isolation, it kind of reminds me of the Solar bongo Charm design philosophy but more spread out. Similar to what was said about the more boring but practical Charms in Brawl, I feel that in raw numbers it falls short before Solars but benefits greatly from effects like "your dreams are too haunted to recover Willpower", "you want to dance NOW" or "you are compelled to come to me from miles away". The fact that there are never any multiple target penalties for Charm-enhanced performances helps greatly. I particularly like Universal Art Enlightenment for simply bypassing the performance categories. Sermon of the Yozis is a rare practical Charm with cool flavouring that lets you tag people with Yozi-themed Ties and Principles. Extravagant Revelry Carnival pretty much IS the Infernal Bongo Charm.

Oh, and Cosmos-Ordering Harmony Perfection is powerful but also fitting as a reward for deep Performance investment as well as a representation of Hell's transcendental tunes. By contrast, Demon-Wracking Shout is strong but feels kind of isolated from the rest of the Charms.

2/2

Also damn, it feels weird to write about the actual game of Exalted positively and with reference to RAW after all this time.

>>97169958
Don't worry it is the honeymoon period, people used to praise Lunars.

>>97169571
Damn, petty bitching all you got? I guess it's good, then.

>>97169996
I mean, fair enough, but I have a hard time imagining myself getting disillusioned with how fucking FUN some of this shit is. Being The Biggest Size, launching out to long range as a crimson wind, sending people into your Reality Marble/Domain Expansion/delete as appropriate to your generational anime era, lighting up the entire battlefield with the Green Sun's radiance. It's fun. And I genuinely wasn't expecting that from what was said about Infernals until now.

>>97164080
Weekly Update
sorry i was late, banned for being right again
man these threads are fast during crowdfunding time
>Art Direction
Infernals (BK) – Backer Kit ongoing…
>Layout
Alchemicals
>Press
Exigents – File prep, almost everything over to an approved by printer
our kind proton is still donating infernals as seen in both the OP and >>97145172. the campaign has about a week left if you give a shit

>>97170187
>our kind proton is still donating infernals as seen in both the OP and >>97145172 . the campaign has about a week left if you give a shit
Last time I forgot to link the previous thread, this time I missed a manuscript link. I really am a consistent stinker.

>>97170156
Listen, I'm happy for you, but the honeymoon the thing is more the rest of us tolerating the gushing/shilling. I do not care for Infernals in the slightest but I'm keeping my mouth shut and letting you have your day. Eventually I'm no longer going to care about doing that.

>>97170250
Fair enough. I never thought I'd sound like a 3e shill myself, I'm just venting relief after literally years of pessimism. I'll shut up now unless someone else wants to talk Charms.

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I'm curious; how do you guys feel about Infernals in 3e overall? I recently did the math on Athletics and it can get 54 successes on feats of strength at essence 1, so I'm feeling pretty fucking good about favoring Isidoros right now, and the willpower engine Infernals get is really strong.

Shit's been great for me, personally.

>>97170401
I still feel like they were a mistake to put in the game at all, and I think I unironically prefer Exigents in both how they function and what they add to the game. All that out of the way, I'm happier that they aren't just another avenue to jack off yozi and are more their own thing.

>>97170401
Bad ideas executed ok. Some real stinkers where it comes to execution, but also some good points, so overall ok.

>>97170440
>Exigents in both how they function and what they add to the game.
Charm bloat and nothing?

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>>97170401
>54 successes on feats of strength at essence 1,
Ecstatic.
I feel ecstatic. In this moment, I am euphoric. We're so fucking back.

>Looks up the 3e feats of strength chart
>20 alone is "Tear open the earth to create a crevasse. Smash through ten feet of solid stone. Lift a yeddim or outpull a team of them. Tow a boat away from a waterfall while swimming"

I think we need a new Strength chart for 30, 40 and 50 sux accomplishments desu.

>>97170440
>All that out of the way, I'm happier that they aren't just another avenue to jack off yozi and are more their own thing.
As an Infernalfag, have you seen how they now have powers inspired by Metagaos, Isidoros, Elloge and fucking Sacheverrell? Tbqh "Infernals no longer use Yozi Charms" is a bad joke despite being technically correct. The fluff has it they're using more of the Yozis' powers than EVER before and their powers are quite clearly representative of the fallen titans not...whatever they were supposed to be. There is almost no Green Solar content for them at all is what I'm saying, and what little there is mainly consists of Infernal Monster Style carryovers.

And being Sherlock Holmes in Investigation, for some reason.

>>97170470
You're never going to see it my way so I'm not going to spend too much time on explaining myself. I think their style of exaltation is immensely cooler, and I appreciate the ability for minor gods to have their own chosen as one offs as a much better execution of what apotheosis used to be. Meanwhile, I just kind of feel infernals only exists to steal thunder from both solars and primordials, and their place in the setting is always hazy and better filled by other exalted. I'm not interested in taking this to a larger discussion because, like I said, I don't think you'll ever see my point of view. But there you have it.

>>97170511
I think there's a world of difference in using the same kind of powers as someone and using someone else's powers. Especially because the ability to reprogram them was one of the many mistakes regarding their lore. However, if you're excited for it that's fine.

>>97170511
Could you post green nimbus flare? I want to compare it to col version.

>>97170498
Don't think there's anyway to get dice that high on Strength.

>>97170558
Nah man, it's actually super easy for an infernal with Primordial Athletics.

Let's assume that the character is essence 1 for all this, and has accessed all relevant charms via the Primordial effect instead of qualifying by standard progression, so they're still essence 1 for calculations and effects.

Passively, 18 dice without any motes spent at all, before stunt bonuses
- 5 dice from Strength
- 5 dice from Athletics
- 3 dice from Mighty Thew (because honestly, if you're doing athletics as your thing, you're taking Mighty Thew)
- 1 die from a specialty in Feats of Strength
- 4 dice from God-Monster Thew, and qualifies as Strength 9 for attempting feats of strength, assuming you have World-Shaking Might

This means that, passively, without any motes at all, the character can reasonably expect to have an even chance of punching through a brick wall, deadlifting an elephant, or raising a drawbridge by hand. If it's a feat of destruction, you even can get a further +2 dice.

But if you want to go all in, going all-out on your feat of strength?
- 18 dice base,
- Behemoth-Sinew Surge to gain +4 dice, and expands the dice limit by 2
- Tower-Toppling Hubris to gain Double 7s
- Universe-Collapsing Juggernaut Beast Converts 6 of the dice from God-Monster Thew (and Keys) into non-charm successes, leaving us with the dice cap still with 10 dice open
- Full Excellency dump; +10 dice right then and there
- Creation-Trampling Rampage to roll twice and add the results together.

26 dice, 6 automatic successes, rolled twice and added together, with double 7s. On average, that's 26.8 successes per roll. Roll twice, add them together. 53 or 54. The singular limit is on the FoS 'required strength' limit.

>>97170595
That's probably going to get errata. Feels really out of line. In general, this entire manuscript feels like they did not actually test interactions. If they did, I'm going to call some crazy favoritism

Is there a "You're already dead." charm or martial art? Like you punch someone then they die after a minute or you cut people so well they don't realize they've been cut until you monologue?

>>97170613
I don't see why they would. This is a thoroughly 'off the scale' setup for 3e; there's no feats of strength dice goal for punching so hard you break the continental shelf or whatever, and every other athletics-focused exalt type can hit the 10/20 FoS limit too. That infernals just have a slightly easier time of it is perfectly normal when Isidoros is present as an inspiration point, given that big bastard actively warps the structure of physics in his vicinity.

>>97170498
>20 alone is "Tear open the earth to create a crevasse. Smash through ten feet of solid stone. Lift a yeddim or outpull a team of them. Tow a boat away from a waterfall while swimming"
>>97170595#
>Passively, 18 dice without any motes spent at all, before stunt bonuses
>- 5 dice from Strength
>- 5 dice from Athletics
>- 3 dice from Mighty Thew (because honestly, if you're doing athletics as your thing, you're taking Mighty Thew)
>- 1 die from a specialty in Feats of Strength
Talking about it, it is strange how they never addressed this elephant in the room, mortals alone are nearly at the peak of the FoS.

>>97170622
I don't feel like citing a primordial is an excuse and it feels like it can quickly get into comparing who your spiritual dad is. It still feels too extra and I still feel like the kit overall has this pattern where it does not seem to check how all of his pieces add up. I don't expect you to agree, but that's my honest opinion.

>>97170637
>Talking about it, it is strange how they never addressed this elephant in the room, mortals alone are nearly at the peak of the FoS.
To be fair here, even the mortals in Exalted are from a wuxia/Conan styled setting. One of my earliest memories is Conan lifting up exactly this kind of gigantic rock by lifting it up on his back.

>>97170644
If it just comes down to opinion and gutfeel, I won't even attempt to contest you on it. I agree, sometimes shit feels weird, whether or not it's fine. I like this, you don't have to.

>>97170615
Not at the moment. This is sounding like something you could fluff into Emerald Gyre of Aeons, or maybe White Veil, though.

>>97170440
I fucking hate exigents so I feel the opposite even though infernals lost a lot of cool things from 2e. They are garbage top to bottom. Just worthless wastes of space. I have no desire to make a charmset for one character who wants to be an extra special snow flake just make it an artifact and you'll lose nothing.

>>97170676
I already explained my view on it, so agree to disagree. I would rather do that a million times then deal with GSP which are an active detriment in my eyes. But again, I understand that for many people the splat is their darling and it's hard to say a lot of negative things about them without people being upset.

>>97170595
Ah, I was thinking of the Solar/Abyssal Athletics trees. I'm not really sure they balanced the Infernals tree all that well, honestly; I defer to you, as you seem to know the rules better than I, but there's a lot of dice-cap breaking shit in there and I have no idea how it all works out.

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>>97170722
Eh, if you're looking for the balance point in the Solar/Infernal comparison using Athletics as a base point, I expect you haven't actually done the math on what a Solar is capable of doing with Supernal Athletics.

Thankfully, someone already did the math for us on that front
https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/753738-today-we-throw-a-mountain

The TL;DR on that thread is, basically, that a solar is capable of slightly less output (closer to a dice goal of 35-45 with the same investment) and doesn't have a charm for breaking leverage rules (so the mountain will break apart when you try to throw it; not a problem for an infernal. Unsure on abyssals)

>>97170803
>
The TL;DR on that thread is, basically, that a solar is capable of slightly less output (closer to a dice goal of 35-45 with the same investment) and doesn't have a charm for breaking leverage rules (so the mountain will break apart when you try to throw it; not a problem for an infernal. Unsure on abyssals)
Abyssals also have a charm that lets you ignore the need for leverage.

>>97170839
>Abyssals also have a charm that lets you ignore the need for leverage.
I very much get the feeling that Vance and co. realized that shit was stupid and that such a charm should exist for everyone it reasonably could for.

>>97170844
I have no idea why they even thought leverage would be a thing in Exalted/Creation. This is a world where drop-kicks make you fall faster so that you can do martial arts mid-air and the average artifact sword weighs half a ton.

>>97170866
Those both happen only due to magic, anon; you still need the correct Charms or other powers to be able to ignore the laws of reality.

>>97170698
They aren't even my favorite splat but they are one. They aren't something for just one character that might not even last long in the campaign. Exigents are just a waste of space because it's too much work I'm not sandact I can't just homebrew a ton of shit.

>>97170961
I think you will find that two mid-air characters who share a rangeband are able to maneuver to fight just fine without magic via stunts. You need to pay some attention to what seems reasonable, but stylized action flying in the face of reality is completely fine without charms. You can call it rule of cool, you can call it stunts, you can call it family, but Exalted does allow it.

>>97171025
Apart from the nonsensical ideas that rules = physics, that's also not how stunts work at all.

>>97171043
>The mechanical effects of performing a stunt are twofold. First, this is a story, not the real world. More specifically, it’s a story that partakes heavily in the larger-than-life dramatic sensibilities of the sword-and-sorcery fantasy and anime action genres. Cool things are more likely to succeed that dull or dumb ones.
>The player gets two bonus dice and may perform limited dramatic editing. No detail of the scene may be contradicted, but minor details may be “revealed” in the context of the character’s actions
>Finally, when a character per-forms an unnecessarily danger-ous stunt (such as leaping over a roaring bonfire to strike at her opponent, or hurling herself off a tall building in an attempt to grapple a flying enemy), the Storyteller is urged not to
level devastating consequences should the stunt fail.
>Additionally, Stunt dice may be cashed in [to, among other things,] allow characters to slightly modify the scene, declare items or people who were not initially present, or shift the flow of the action — within reason.
That's four editions of stunts allowing you to ignore the laws of reality.

>>97171074
That is not defying physics but allowing for exciting and cooperative roleplay. Thank you for proving my point!

>>97171080
Exciting and cooperative roleplay... that describes explicitly physics-defying stunts, yes.

>>97171080
I've seen bad ST's say that you can stunt parrying by slapping your hands or knocking the sword aside because "fists can't do that" and have been told you can't block a sword by biting it because "You don't have a bite attack."

While falling like a rocket to kick someone after pushing off the air isn't at all insane and I'd allow it as a stunt I can see plenty of tables being retarded over it. I don't get it but hey, it is what it is.

>>97170075
It's a perfect mental dodge and a join battle roll, something you were always allowed to do even without a charm. It's just shit man. Look at infernals, I can't remember the name off hand but they have a "Oh you tried to social me? I get a bonus attacking you." and it's significantly better balanced and usable then what you made.

>>97171106
oh no typo. "Can't stunt parrying.

Stunts are one of those things that work until the ST is a spaz. Same with surf board sized weapons.

>>97171114
This is why I generally default to things that make reasonable physical sense for my stunts, unless I have a charm that directly says I can do it anyways. It's simpler and easier, generally.

That said, I tend to take shit that directly transforms what my character is capable of. The last character I made has 28 mutation dots, so I can get away with a lot of shit without breaking verisimilitude. Wish I didn't have to tiptoe around it, though.

>>97171074
>Finally, when a character per-forms an unnecessarily danger-ous stunt (such as leaping over a roaring bonfire to strike at her opponent, or hurling herself off a tall building in an attempt to grapple a flying enemy), the Storyteller is urged not to level devastating consequences should the stunt fail.
You left off the other part of that.

>In the above examples, the character might have an opportunity to beat out the flames kindling on her clothing before suffering any damage, or should be provided a roll to grab onto a ledge or other surface to keep from plummeting to a messy death.

It does not mean that, sans Charms, you can dive off a cliff and be totally fine; you need to roll to avoid splattering onto the ground.

>>97171120
Not being able to do the stunts you think are cool because they don't mesh with the table honestly isn't even the worst thing. It -sucks- but so long as their consistent with everything it's not bad.

It's when you get that rare ST that lets a player do bullshit stunts (aka cool ones) but gets all bitchy when other people do the same. I still say I don't need a fucking bite attack to stunt catching a sword with my teeth but it's all good. I'm not mad. It's better then taking damage because you stunted skipping across lava with the tip of your sword. I don't care if lava is hot, I'm not touching it.

again I don't think this is an issue with the game more an issue that some ST's just really suck or have a lot to learn.

>>97171165
>It does not mean that, sans Charms, you can dive off a cliff and be totally fine; you need to roll to avoid splattering onto the ground.
Doesn't matter, things are still shifting. You wouldn't ordinarily be able to do that - you wouldn't get the roll.

>>97171106
I would take the solar charm, personally. I think it's cool that it forces a confrontation in exchange for power. Makes a story and it's strong. The Infernal charm is just some whatever bonus.

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>>97170548
Sorry for the delay, was out for lunch. Here you go. Those things below it are Keys, basically upgrade Charms organised Alchemicals-style for convenience.

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>>97170548
Also here's the Green Sun Wasting description, which is right beneath it.

>>97171198
>Also here's the Green Sun Wasting description, which is right beneath it.
Seems to have less bad effects than Drunken Moth Sickness with the same virulence (except Drunken Moth Sickness is way harder to treat because medical treatment doesn't work unless some kind of magical effect lets it), and the effects are way less bad than Jigsaw Organ Condition even if at E4 it outscales the virulence. Definitely scarier than the mundane diseases at higher essence ratings, though. That's something.

Supernatural diseases are so much worse than they were in 1e/2e it's kind of funny. Without the 'your resistance pool drops to 0' effect any old fucker with a favored ability can deal with it.

>>97171166
I don't really like stunts that are just rule of cool like, "I catch the sword with my teeth," because that's lazy and derivative. When I think of stunts I think of introducing details to the scene or using those details cleverly. A barehand parry is lazy, I want to see some Jackie Chan shenanigans like grabbing a sacred scroll off the wall and using it to redirect the blade because it's implied your opponent would not want to damage it or something.

>>97171313
>any old fucker with a favored ability
To be fair, how many players actually spare that much thought towards Medicine?

>>97171324
I only partly disagree. Ideally you want both. If people are spending too much time constantly 3-stunting then shit just gets lame really fast. I don't want to read all that jim, we are playing a game and your turn is taking way too long. The same is with chopping off dudes heads or grabbing swords with teeth.

plus the whole ones man cool is another mans lame. I think gore is metal as fuck, some people hate that shit in a game. One thing I've noticed is people whining about cannibalism. The last few years I've seen way more people whine about that and it's like really. that's your limit. come the fuck on. What are we even doing here.

I guess a good way to put it is "Some people try too hard" and because of that it's lame. Like a comic where everyone has epic one liners and can shoot starships out the sky. It's like, who the fuck cares. You went so hard you're soft again, like a reverse erection. It's a difficult balance.

i am being too hyper critical about my likes and dislikes though, it's all good. Just stuff to keep in mind.

>>97171324
That sounds like a pain in the ass.

>>97171367
Bitch, half the players in my group have medicine. The actual thing nobody takes is Investigate.

I'm apparently too retarded to figure out proton, entering the address in the OP just takes me back to the option to upload my own files. How do I get the infernal drafts?

>>97171415
It's /url/. If that helps any. You put the code in after that.

drive(.)proton(.)me(/)urls(/)FUCKTONNUMBERSLETTERS

>>97171367
The real question is how many people, especially fighting people, take Resistance? Because if you beat the virulence then the whole disease stops in it's tracks. Medicine only matters after the fight, and the thing is you only need one medical worker and they can treat everybody and their mother, so even if only like 10% of people take it that's still half of all parties out there, and the rest will probably have at least a mortal doctor who can hit Dif4s available.

>>97171425
Aha, I thought the urls section of the address was something I was supposed to substitute the number code for. But what's the password?

>>97171435
I... didn't need a password? I just typed in and downloaded it. Uhh gimme a sec to see what's going on.

>>97171443
And now it isn't asking for a password. Neat.

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Vance said in the DIscord that Infernal charms that aren't explicitly Yozi-flavored can and should be recycled and useable by Solars. His example was the sorcery charms but it would also apply to other abilities.

>>97171500
Show us the quote

>>97169592
>>97169600
Yeah, all of that sounds about right. Above all I'd say that I felt like the whoever wrote the Charms had fun writing them and I had fun reading them, and that counts for a lot.

>>97170401
I think they're about as good as they can get within the Charm framework set by the core. While I plenty of issues with the system, I've still happily run several 3E campaigns, so "as good as it can get for 3E" isn't as faint a praise as it might be taken as.

>>97170440
>>97170676
I rather like both Infernals and Exigents, myself. I think they're pretty different from each other, thematically, conceptially, mechanically, role-wise, lore-wise, pretty much in every way, so not really alternatives or competitors to each other.

>>97171500
>Vance said in the DIscord that Infernal charms that aren't explicitly Yozi-flavored can and should be recycled and useable by Solars. His example was the sorcery charms but it would also apply to other abilities.
I just went to check all of Vance's posts since November 25th that included the word "Yozi" or "Charm" and didn't see anything of the sort. I'm not saying that you made it the fuck up, but I am saying that I wanted to prove you wrong and I'm disappointed that I can't believe you without further proof.

>>97171522
For me it's less that they compete with each other directly but more that both of them are "late" additions to the game so I compare them and how they added to the setting that way. I think Infernals actually did damage to the setting and the perception of the game, but I don't want to start a dumb argument on something that's just my feelings so just take that as it is. On the other hand I feel like Exigents fill in the niche of god-blooded much better than god-blooded themselves. They take this part of the setting and pump it up to another level that's more interesting for people to play in and also more interesting to interact with.

>>97171571
>I feel like Exigents fill in the niche of god-blooded much better than god-blooded themselves
I strongly disagree, but you are entitled to your own opinions and sense of taste even if they're bad.

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>>97171500
ngl I kind of dislike that the unique sorcery tech Lunars got is now...just available to everyone. I think each Exalt should get different tech for sorcery that feels fun and unique.
>Solars multicast a lower circle and higher circle
>Abyssals 'resurrect' their spell after it's over
>Infernals overcharge a spell
>Lunars actually get extra actions when shaping Sorcery
>Sidereals sorcery also function as inflicting Shock and Awe, in line with the Sorcery
>Dragonblooded count their Essence as twice as high if they're in the correct Aura for the correctly elemental spell
>Alchemicals get an innate Spell Capturing Cord grenade

>>97171571
>I think Infernals actually did damage to the setting and the perception of the game, but I don't want to start a dumb argument on something that's just my feelings so just take that as it is.
this isn't me asking for an argument here, but damage it how, specifically? Because if that's a reference to how the Yozis ate the mindset people went into the setting with, I'll absolutely agree with that; the Reclamation became basically the only thing anybody ever talked about. Primordials this, yozis that, reclamation whatever, and if it wasn't competing with them in terms of overall structure space, it basically didn't matter to a ton of people, which inevitably turned towards the solars as the big shitkickers since they were the ones to lead the charge in killing/binding the yozis in the first place.

I don't think that's as much of a problem this time around. Not only does the infernals book outright state that the Reclamation CANNOT happen this time around, it also doesn't give that kind of primacy to the Yozis, instead focusing much more on demons and their soul hierarchies. The Yozis can still be communed with, but you're much more likely to deal with one of Metagaos's souls instead of Metagaos itself. The one exception to this being Adorjan, since she can squeeze down into human form, but even then she didn't get much in the way of regard on her own merits.

Personally, I'm just glad Suntarankal is back.

>>97171571
I dislike Exigents for being exalted and dislike how they can reach Solar level. But I do like the idea of gods being able to infuse champions with their power and I feel like that should be extended further to being able to bless some of their followers with weaker power as well.

>>97171640
I honestly feel like the Ride / Ochilike shtick did this all way better than Exigents. Having dual souls is already incredibly distinct from any other Exalt, it's been a thing in the setting since forever and it doesn't powercreep anything because like I said, it's been in the setting since forever. Retooling that concept to add more concrete incentives for Gods to do it and tweaking to make it a good place space wouldn't have been that big of an ask.

Exigents are actually just too diverse, too broad and devalue the distinct identity of Exaltations in the setting.

>>97171649
The biggest problem is how much it feels like they're forcing exalts to be much more narrower. Like no one can use puppet artifacts because they're exigents now? What is added by making a mask based exigent over masked based artifacts anyone can use. Why do they have to be even more special snowflake characters than the already special snowflake exalts?

>>97171710
>The biggest problem is how much it feels like they're forcing exalts to be much more narrower. Like no one can use puppet artifacts because they're exigents now? What is added by making a mask based exigent over masked based artifacts anyone can use. Why do they have to be even more special snowflake characters than the already special snowflake exalts?
Odd reason to dislike them. Its like saying, "Oh I can't have a flaming sword anymore because that would be a Dragon-Blooded!" Just do whatever you want, man, Exalted is broad enough that your puppet-wielding Abyssal and Pakpao the Puppeteer Exalt can coexist.

>>97171714
It has more to do with the fact that I have to question why they have to exist in the first place. Why does this one person have a charmset only they can use? Who does that help? It means I got to come up with charms up until that moment the game ends. An artifact has a set number of charms and it doesn't outwear it's welcome most times. I don't have to worry if it comes back into the story or how it comes back.

>>97171714
I "dislike" them because I just don't get the point of homebrew the exalted. Practically speaking I'm sure the devs saw how many people wanted to make a playable custom exalt type from the 2e devil-tigers hype and just did their best.

It's so much work for new players and older players you'd think would have a favorite splat that they would rather play.. Lore wise it's fine if basic. I sure as heck don't think it breaks anything - if you actually read the books instead of living in a homebrew version of Exalted you realize pretty quick that there are tons of things that match the exalted in power, if not being flat out way more powerful.

Legitimately, the reason why they got added is because Holden and Morke were idiots that went for infinite exaltation varieties, and since they made it into the core book, the newer devs were forced by the legacy code to include them. Pretty sure that's the case with Liminals and Getimians, too.

>>97171747
I don't like Exigents, but I can sort of see the argument. There's been a soft undercurrent of people who have want "least god" exalted for years.

Liminals and Getimians are the solution to something no one was asking.

>>97171585
Maybe I use them for different reasons than you. That's okay too.
>>97171625
That's a lot of it, and I don't think it ever actually went away even if the writing of the books has tried to back off from it. It was also another part of the ever-increasing scale of everything, just the biggest and greenest part. There's a bunch of little nitpicks I also have about the concept of how they fit into the setting to begin with, but those are my personal nitpicks and I don't think they're worth talking about.

>>97170644
As demonstrated by Janest, the charms are never about the patrons.
And the reason for why Infernals, and Sidereals too, can justify a lot of bullshit, is that their themes are based on made up things that the devs can easily vaguely connect their bullshit abilities to.

>>97171714
>Odd reason to dislike them. Its like saying, "Oh I can't have a flaming sword anymore because that would be a Dragon-Blooded!" Just do whatever you want, man, Exalted is broad enough that your puppet-wielding Abyssal and Pakpao the Puppeteer Exalt can coexist.
You'll note that there were no more charms like Fire-and-Stones Strike printed after Dragonblooded game out though. The only animal-themed charms to come out after Lunars were the animals with strong death themes (i.e. raitons, lampreys, maggots, owls) in Abyssals, but Sidereals had none and that was it all the way up to Infernals, who didn't have any either. No more Hungry Tiger Techniques, and the book literally just before Lunars included Eagle Wing Style and Soaring Crane Leap, but after? Nothing.

Niche protection does exist, and it does only get implemented effectively after a splat comes out actually talking about it. The option for puppetry charms in canon material outside Pakpao no longer exists, and I strongly suspect that there will be no farming/harvest style charms even among Wood aspected Dragonblooded since Janest came around either. Autochthonians could've had canon city charms if the Architects weren't written.

I'm not saying that any of these charms would have actually been written, that the potential charm space would've been used. I am saying that the Exigents existing means the charm space is now occupied as far as developers see it, and there no longer exists the potential for interesting content there. It will simply never be printed.

>>97170515
>think their style of exaltation is immensely cooler, a
Literally Solars? In fact a lot of Exigents are copies of canon exalted, namely the chosen of masks copied Mirror Flag to a T.

>and I appreciate the ability for minor gods to have their own chosen as one offs
Gods already could share their powers with the empower and ride charms.

>and their place in the setting is always hazy and better filled by other exalted.

>>97171395
>One thing I've noticed is people whining about cannibalism. The last few years I've seen way more people whine about that and it's like really. that's your limit. come the fuck on. What are we even doing here.
Raksi baby eating ways were always dunked on, it became worse in these threads once it was pointed out that there's the possibility of she fucking them.

>>97172038
As I stated, I don't think you'll see it my way so I'm not going to lay it out any further than this post. This is my viewpoint, it has been for a long time, and it won't be changed or challenged by anons on the Internet. I still think they're innately better than Infernals in terms of being a worthwhile splat, but it's fine if you think otherwise.

>>97172032
>Autochthonians could've had canon city charms if the Architects weren't written.
Talking about it, does Infernals still have theirs city charms or fate breaking charms?

>>97172062
>any splat being better then infernals.

I mean you're more then welcome to be wrong about everything. you fish.

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>>97172070
He is trying to use End Debate, see how he can't beat the "Exigents are Solars with a coat of paint" allegations.
In fact, despite he complaining about Infernals stealing the Solar's thunder, I saw newfags out of here asking why Solars are a big deal despite Exigents existing.

>>97172070
We're either both right (our opinions are equally valid) or both wrong (our opinions are equally invalid), those are the only options. Suggestions to the contrary would simply be obnoxious shilling. I'm willing to move on, maybe talk about something we can actually have a productive discussion on.
>>97172096
Could you be more obnoxious? You're usually better at badly pretending to be intelligent. Try harder

>>97172105
Ad hominen, try better.

yozi exalts are great and one of the few niches that went unfulfilled that also had high demand. I can take or leave alchemicals though. they're in their own little setting and barely connected to Exalted proper.

>>97172096
>>97172070
Shut the fuck up. You two or a duo that posts an awful lot like you comes here every single thread to be a worthless piece of shit and piss on anyone who has a slightly different opinion while acting high and mighty and sucking each other off. Get a room or a discord or something or do anything but continually shit up the threads with your nonsense.

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>>97172032
This post is a real headscratcher. You seem to read charm names very literally, for one thing; Fire-And-Stones Strike doesn't set your sword on fire, Graceful Crane Stance doesn't give you the legs of those lanky birds, Hungry Tiger Technique does not make you into Tony the Tiger, etc., but the names convey that your perfect poise is like that of the crane's, that your blow cracks open armor like a raging inferno and/or a boulder being hurled into somebody, that your weapon is going to tear into someone like a starving big cat, etc. Regardless, you are also wholly incorrect regarding your suppositions. For instance, Strawmaiden Janest (in the book immediately following Lunars) has Charms named things like Bloodhound's Borrowed Muzzle, Cat's Borrowed Whisker, Healthy-As-A-Horse Technique, and so on, and Pakpao's Charms constantly reference spiders. Sidereals also have quite a few charms inspired by animals thanks to the Constellations of the Gull, the Peacock, and the Crow (they really love birds). Infernals have charms that invoke cities (albeit a very specific one: the Demon City Malfeas). Abyssals and Infernals have charms that literally set their blows aflame in Abyssal Brawl and Infernal Melee despite the prior existence of the elementally dominant Dragon-blooded (to say nothing of other elemental powers such as Abyssal Archery and Dodge's focus on freezing people and Infernal Archery's lightning blasts and shots that root people to the ground with mercurial vines).

In short: the current devs aren't so worried about mild thematic overlap as you are. I think there are valid reasons to dislike Exigents, but its goofy to think that its now totally invalid for an Abyssal to have the ability to puppeteer corpses or an Infernal to have a charm where he draws strength from being in a city just because the Puppeteer Exalt exists or that the Architects are also an extant type of Exalt.

>>97172119
Alchemicals suffered because of the thin veiled metaplot of 1e, a proposed solution is making the seal breaking take place centuries before the return of the solars.

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>>97172125
Oh and before you say some shit like "samefag." No. I'm just tired of you.

>>97172125
This is incredibly ironic because I think there are some people in this thread who do exactly what you're accusing me of. That's funny.

>>97172140
Whatever you fucking say, man. I get that it's 4chan, I've been here for nearly 20 fucking years, but holy fuck. This shit is low quality posting and we don't have enough Exalted posters anymore to really be reddit clique posting for irrelevant differences of opinion.

>>97172156
The one who was doing reddit gatekeeping was the exigentfag, he even began name calling.

So seriously though, why would anyone want to play an Alchemical? I don't understand the appeal in playing what is basically a robot. Is there some cool lore that makes you want to play them? Are people just super into robots? Have you ever run an adventure inside Auto? All the other splats I get, even the new 3e ones, but why robot.

>>97172161
Don't post like you're tattling to the teacher, faggot. Just move on and get better posting habits. This is the last time I'm gonna respond to you so feel free to get your shot in and get on with your day.

>>97172162
Alchemicals are the "hidden/lost super advanced civilization" found in pulps and JRPGs, they also scratch the lost genre of "science-fantasy".

>>97172156
>Exalted posters anymore to really be reddit clique posting for irrelevant differences of opinion.

I've seen what the threads have been. They are way more fun then people just complaining endlessly about 3e. At least people are talking about why they like what they like. Also the more people who talk about infernals the better, because I like infernals.

I'm happy when people talk about any splat though so either way it's a win-win for me.

>>97172162
I'm probably one of the few people in the community qualified to talk about this, because I ran a campaign of them.

That's a very low bar on its surface, but realistically, the amount of groups who have played an entirely Autochthonian / Alchemical campaign can be counted on two hands. The number of people who've done it where they haven't even LEFT Autochthonia can be counted on one hand.

I'm interested in them because yeah, they're robots - they have completely unique aesthetics compared to any other Exalt or location in Exalted, and the fantasy of physically upgrading your charms and interacting with "magitech" without being Solar tier is a good enough niche.

However, I also made this post >>97172119 . The entire reason we played Alchemicals is because our group has played a lot of Exalts, so we wanted to try something different. It's hard for me to conceive of Alchemicals being the first or even second choice of Exalted to play, let alone one centered in Autochthonia. The place and society is very unique, but that can also be a bad thing because it takes a little more thought on how to structure stories or even just think about the world. It's not impossible, it just takes more leaps, and to some people that puts them off.

I've never met anyone that really likes Alchemicals but also wanted their Alchemical to not lean heavily into being a cyborg or robot.

tl;dr robot upgrade aesthetics, unique setting to play off and robo fuckers.

>>97172188
The threads have been worse than ever. The only thing going on is infernals leaks, and if you're not into that, it's just been the worst shitposting with the most retarded arguments.

>>97172176
>guys im just an ancient outsider BUT YOU SPECIFICALLY FUCK YOU
Go outside crybaby nigger.
>>97170615
White Veil Dragon Dies Screaming is this in theory.

>>97172204
>The threads have been worse than ever
The period just before drawanon started posting was worse.

>>97170613
I think it is more of a hail Mary, than favoritism, since after Infernals, exalted will enter a lull like 2e scion did.

>>97172038
Ride isn't about sharing power, it's about being right there inhabiting a mortal vessel, putting in the effort yourself and sharing in all the dangers. It's not a way to have a champion, and it's not really similar to having an Exigent.

>>97172162
Your post made me realise Transformers is finally losing it's grip on cultural relevancy, and going the way of TMNT. End of an era, with a whimper instead of a bang I suppose.

>>97172234
>Ride isn't about sharing power
...that's literally what the charm does.
>It's not a way to have a champion
this is literally what the Ochilike, the proto-Exalted, were. They WERE champions.

if your argument is "well Ride is not 1 to 1 Exigents" then no shit? someone earlier in the thread even said that they could have retooled that to make it more playable, like they already did with Ochilikes in Essence, and it would have achieved pretty much a similar result. Ochilikes are also, funnily enough, pretty much 1 to 1 on Exigents on most accounts at the moment. The problem you're putting forward doesn't even apply as much as you think it does.

>>97172204
Hard, hard disagree on that. Well besides the infernal leaks. Those have been great.
>>97172200
I'm really glad 3e is making playing in the various realms more possible. Just giving us ideas on what to do helps a ton as well. It's hard to put into words but it's ideas are just so much more... accessible for the player.

>>97172238
I blame Michael Bay for both these things but the real culprit is probably just time. Transformers and TMNT is how old now?

>>97172227
I'll give you that, you're right. Still pretty rife with hours and hours of shitposting on what feels like a daily basis.
>>97172200
Alchemicals are basically a totally different game. They're a hard sell. You could just cut them out of Exalted and nobody on either side would notice

>>97172204
I think the threads were worse before the Infernal drafts leaked because 1. at least they seem to have cheered up Infernalfags like myself. I was going to say "have generally cheered up" because of how volatile we all are but I haven't actually seen anyone hate it overall, at best some of us mourn Devil-Tigers but the drafts are full of good silver linings and 2. prior to the drafts there wasn't even as much enthusiastic and informed discussion as there is about Infernals.

So like, you just had the endless Lunar waffling about a splat I don't think the developers ever, at any point in Exalted's development history, had any clue how to fix. Or similarly asinine or fundamentally unresolvable arguments.

>>97172066
>city charms
I...wasn't aware Infernals ever HAD city charms? If you're thinking of Hundredfold Facets of Enlightenment, that is technically homebrew. Infernal War does have a few Charms to spread the brass cityscape of Malfeas (or their inner world) over an area, though.
>fate breaking
Fate-Rending Desperation, Larceny. Vance loves KSBD and it shows.

>>97172248
I think the word you're looking for is more interesting. Underworld and Yu-Shan were always very playable, it's just few people had incentives to go there other than maybe being sexually harassed by Ebon Dragon in a tavern.

I think in the case of the Underworld that's still pretty much the case, but it was made a lot better and less Wraith Shadowland. Malfeas not having the 2e miasma is also great.

In the specific case of Autochthonia, it had the distinction of always being playable and pretty interesting (if unconnected), and each edition has it become better and better.

3e hasn't done much on the Wyld front now however, they've just sort of given up on it. Wyld has had points in 1e and 2e where it was very playable and very interesting to go to.

>>97172256
I don't actually blame Bay, Bay only pissed off oldheads. Kids (like me) were cheering for Optimus ripping off faces. Though I think it's fair to say the last couple of movies did get a bit too convoluted and spread the fight scenes too thinly and lost even us, but Bayformers as a whole seemed successful commercially at least.

I blame Hasbro more than anything. Anyway, TMNT is 36 years old and Transformers is 41. There's a season for all things.

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>>97172266
>Vance loves KSBD and it shows
it showing up as often as it does in inspirational material gives pic related vibes. then again, the author already shared his opinion on 2e/3e exalted...

>>97172266
>I...wasn't aware Infernals ever HAD city charms?
Malfeas had it in his design, for example, his imperfection.

>IMPERFECTION OF THE DEMON CITY
>The Demon City is only invulnerable within itself, so Malfeas constantly seeks to crush the other Yozis with his layers. Being of equal infinitude, such ambitions avail nothing. Because of this, however, all active perfect defenses granted by Malfeas Charms only function in an area that has been deliberately developed for habitation or use. The level of development is irrelevant; the most primitive mud hut village or farmstead is just as viable a battleground as the plazas of Nexus or the palaces of Yu-Shan. Infernals can intuitively sense when they cross the border between protected and unsafe territory (or vice versa).

>>97172266
I did say I think the infernal leaks are a good thing. I'm just saying if you're trying to use the thread for anything else, you're fucked. Hell, I'd say you're fucked worse since Infernalfags (no offense) are juiced right now and since the manuscripts have been dropping some have been the touchiest bitches about anything related. The depression kinda kept that at bay before lol

>>97172242
No, anon. I'm saying that a god empowering a champion to do things in his stead is entirely different from a god just inhabiting a mortal and using his own time and effort, and risking his own life, to do things. You do know that the god is a part of an olchilik, not just an empowering entity, right? It's not a matter of it just not matching Exigents 1:1, they're two completely different things.

>>97172362
They fulfill similar niches anon, and you were being pretty disingenuous to say they aren't champions considering why exactly the Ride charm was added. You know that they were always champions right? It's just a very weird and wrong nitpick to make.

>risking his life
I don't even get where you're coming from here. Exigencies in general are always a risk and they're entirely unpredictable in whether it swallows the god permanently or just diminishes them permanently.

In aggregate, Ochilikes and Exigents are very similar. They are not 1:1, which makes sense because of course people that don't like current Exigents don't want current Exigents, but they're way more comparable and similar than say God-blooded versus Exigents.

>>97172290
Oh. Again, fair enough. Hard disagree and none taken on those last couple of sentences though, after all the seething and dooming I am riding the dopamine rush of the manuscripts 24/7 even when not talking to anyone in thread about it. I can just lurk here without posting anything at all, and feel relieved knowing what my dudes are getting.

>>97172283
OH yeah just to clarify, Infernals lost their PD weaknesses in 3e. You don't have to be constantly moving or in a city anymore. Ablation of Brass and Fire and the parry one that's too boring for me to remember the name of because Counter-Conceptual Imposition lets you Clash attacks instead and it's just swinging a weapon real good in Melee simply work like the other Exalts' PDs. Period. The weakness of the Dodge one is that it can still be hit by blows which can strike the immaterial, though.

>>97172279
Yeah with how vocal about it Vance is, I'm glad if you don't know anything about KSBD the shout-outs aren't very obvious.

>you should totally reply to our DM
Kek. Might as well have just paid for a sponsorship at that point.

>>97172403
Brother, if you don't understand the difference between a god doing things himself and empowering a champion to do things for him, I really don't know what to say. Do you think Solars, too, would be just the same if they were possessed by the Unconquered Sun instead of humans empowered by the Sun but distinct and independent from him?

>>97172242
It's fundamentally different. An Exigent is still an Exalt, a mortal forever uplifted and awakened to great power by the spark of the divine. I believe there are old statements saying stuff like Solars are not powered by the Sun, they are merely cut from his cloth.

>>97172362
Gods could empower others with a spirit charm, I remember that 5dd version turned you in a creature of darkness.

>>97172429
>>97172433
They play pretty similarly and have the same charm, anima and thematic guidelines.

You're holding me to a standard that any changes to Exigents should be 1:1. I don't like Exigents being Exalted, but nor am I entirely unsympathetic to people who want to play Least God empowered individuals. That's why Ochilike is great for that.

I really want to make this clear, I don't care they're not the same as Exigents. That's a plus, that's the goal. I don't like them. I think they're TOO unique and don't have a good thematic throughline tying them together to make them holistically distinct from the Exalted beyond each individual one being its own splat.

Simultaneously, the extent to which you think they are entirely different is serious overplaying. They pretty obviously DO share similar niches, being empowered by Least Gods for Terrestrial and Celestial play. It's weird to say that these things are completely different.

>So Dragonblooded are the same as-
bro, saying what 'Exigents' are or do is already painting a broad as fuck brush because they're all by nature unique.

Ochilike and Exigents ARE comparable and ARE similar, and in more cases than not, can be substituted painlessly with less setting changes than what the Exigency had to have in the first place.

>>97172474
That's true, not really relevant to Ride, and pretty different from Exigents in terms of powerlevel.

>>97172481
No, anon, we are saying, very directly and explicitly, that olchilike are dramatically different from Exalted thematically and in terms of in-setting role, and that a fusion of a god and a mortal is a very different character concept from a mortal given godlike power. Nobody's saying
>that any changes to Exigents should be 1:1
and you're either not really reading or not really understanding the posts you're replying to if you think otherwise.

>>97172498
You are both explicitly saying that Ochilikes are not 1:1 to Exigents, and I agree with that.

Our disagreement is how -much- that matters and to what extent it's the case. You are free to read my post again where I went over this and gave my thoughts on it.

I agree it's different. I like that it's different. I don't agree it is so fundamentally different that Ochilikes are unthinkable as Exigent replacements in setting in the same way that people will sometimes say God-bloods replace Exigents. The problem with God-Bloods is, aside from origin, they're not really meant to punch easily to Terrestrial and Celestial like Exigents or Ochilike can, and the setting changes you'd have to introduce are weird. Exigents also had to have weird setting changes, and Ochilikes themselves in 3e - despite predating Exigents conceptually - would also have to introduce setting changes.

I just do not think that the actual play space and style is going to be /that/ much different, and I've not been given arguments other than you just cattily reposting your opinion that it's really important.

To reiterate again, I don't care they're not exactly like Exigents. I have problems with Exigents. My suggestion is a compromise between people who love custom power suites, want to be empowered by Least Gods and other people who do not like that Exigents inherently diminish the value of the Exalted. The majority of Exigent players that actually exist would probably survive, because fundamentally the play experience is not that much different. FUNDAMENTALLY, the PLAY experience is not THAT MUCH different.

>>97172531
i think exigents are retarded, but i wouldn't mind olchilikes

Does somebody know the author of exalted 2.75e? What do you think about their design ethos?

http://exalted275e.wikidot.com/design-philosophy

>>97172531
You have definitely beegn given arguments, but fine, let's try this one more time. An olchilik is, to begin with, an amalgamation of a god and a mortal - or a mortal-ish vessel like a Dragon King - rather than a mortal given power. That is, right off the bat, a different and a lot more pre-determined character concept than an Exalt. You're not a dude who's figuring out what to do with all the power he suddenly has and how to deal with his new role in the world, you're at least in part an ancient spirit with non-human sensibilities. And there's nothing wrong with that as such, it can be cool, but it's a lot more specific concept than Exigents are, and not very similar. As has already been said, you don't really get the primary benefit of Exalted - power multiplier, having other people be out there doing things aligned with your interests - with olchilike, because and olchilik isn't another person, it is the god himself, just fused with someone else. It's a very different relationship than that between a god and an Exalt, and very different role. These are significant, meaningful differences. As more of a personal opinion, I'd also say that keeping olchilike more of a Dragon King thing is better than diluting the distinctiveness of the Dragon King culture by making it a more widespread thing.

>>97172744
>having other people be out there doing things aligned with your interests
This one I don't understand, aren't Exigents infamous for how disconnected they are to rest of the setting? Even to their own patrons.

>>97172531
>>97172744
Oh, and I'll add, just because you mentioned people sometimes suggesting that God-Blooded could replace Exigents, that I don't buy God-Blooded being able to do that, either. Exalted-level powers are a pretty core part of Exigents, and giving God-Blooded powers on that level would change the setting in ways far more dramatic and far-reaching than anything 3E devs have done.

>>97172770
We had extremely rare Dragon-Blooded levels God-Blooded since 1e, and they didn't warp the setting to be about them.

>>97172760
That's something I've mostly heard said in this thread and not much at all outside this thread, so I don't think so. I could be wrong, I'm not everywhere where Exalted is discussed, and obviously I only know the actual play habits of my group, not any other group, so I could be wrong, but I haven't gotten the impression that viewing Exigents like that is particularly common outside /exg/.

>>97172780
Just see the homebrew, people treat Exigents as "free powers with no strings attached"; and they also have aversion/dislike to the patrons, it if they remember that patrons are a thing.

>>97172800
I wouldn't treat homebrew or even fan discussion as being real. If it was, the Yozi would simply be a comically dysfunctional family

>>97172760
Exigents, based on the canon ones we've gotten in both books they come out of, actually trend towards having a significantly greater stock and presence in what they're dealing with than most other exalt types - Architects are directly attached to specific cities if they don't want a mortal lifespan, the Chosen of Masks has an entire subplot in and around Nexus due to Shalrina, Janest has a surprisingly specific backstory, the Sovereigns are directly connected to a very specific place, and so on. If someone's bypassing that with the exigent they're making, they're not actually buying into the structural fantasy of the exalt type they've selected - it's like picking a dragon-blood who has no connection to anything going on politically, or a lunar that wasn't an outcast and is never angry.