I would like to talk about the Chronicles of Darkness game line Deviant: The Renegades, or more specifically, one major upcoming supplement. Deviant was released in late 2021, and has had three additional sourcebooks since then. A new supplement, Black Vans, has been in playtesting for a while, and is currently being previewed.I am not being paid or sponsored to promote this book in any way. I am just very fascinated by it, and indeed, I already ran a mini-campaign using the playtest material.Deviant is, by default, a game about playing angsty, scarred superheroes who either fight world-manipulating conspiracies or work for them. Black Vans is a toolkit full of variant rules, quick NPC creation, variant character types, and variant genres. These variants range from the minor to the dramatic, completely overhauling what were once non-negotiable, foundational themes and mechanics. Maybe your character is not angsty or scarred at all, perhaps they are a """""regular human""""" like John Wick or Batman, or the campaign might have nothing to do with world-manipulating conspiracies.These variant genres include cyberpunk, high fantasy, post-apocalypse, space opera, and superhero emergence.This is a beefy supplement. For example, one chapter alone dedicates 38,000+ words to playing other monsters of the Chronicles of Darkness: Beasts, changelings, demons, Sin-Eaters, hunters (entirely separate from the variant rules for """natural""" superpowers), mages, mummies, Prometheans, vampires, and werewolves. No additional supplements beyond Deviant are necessary; the rules are self-contained, allowing the group to play a monster mash of an urban fantasy setting without needing a daunting 7+ books. And yes, they are supposed to be balanced against one another, so a vampire in the same group as a full-fledged mage is probably some older Kindred.(Continued.)
Then come the variant genres. Most downplay, if not completely do away with, the idea of fighting world-manipulating conspiracies or working for them; the GM is still free to use them if so desired. ~4,800 words are given to general rules on the variant settings.The cyberpunk genre and its rules are 10,000+ words long. You are either a megacorp-employed Suit or a Freelancer. Major mechanics include managing and juggling a network of patrons and sponsors, diving into "Iconspace" (the internet, and digital systems in general, in Tron style), and the possibility of having unsupported Upgrades.The high fantasy genre and its rules clock in at ~9,800 words. While Deviant usually categorizes PCs into five "Clades" (classes, sort of, but much looser), this is much more flexible; players can take whatever abilities they want for their characters, as long as it can be justified by species, magic, or what-have-you. Major mechanics include heroic codes of morals and ethics (every PC has one, even unconsciously) and the drama that ensues from trying to live up to them, interference from "Meddlers" (gods, demon lords, archmages of godlike power, etc.) and the possibility of deliberately invoking them for aid, epic quests as campaign structure, treasure, monsters, and traps.At ~9,400 words, the post-apocalypse genre and its rules cover what one would expect: scarcity, food, tracking ammo/batteries/food, home bases, and the like. However, Black Vans chooses to approach the genre in an optimistic fashion. Hope and despair are core mechanics. Rather than fighting or working for conspiracies, PCs counteract and neutralize the harsh conditions of the world itself. It may take time, and it may take far more resources than the PCs start the campaign with, but they can make the planet a safer place and give hope to all. It helps that the PCs have superpowers, of course, whether from before the calamity or as a result of wasteland mutations.
The space opera genre and its rules come in at ~10,800 words. Here, the scale is raised dramatically. The PCs do not fight or work for world-manipulating conspiracies; instead, the conspiracy rules model entire space empires, each in control of many planetary systems. Yes, the PCs are very much capable of toppling whole interstellar empires. The bulk of this chapter, understandably, focuses on starships (many of which have Deviant-powered FTL drives) and mechas.The superhero emergence genre and its rules are ~9,000 words. The theme here is specific: PR. For some reason, the PCs are the spotlight superheroes of the world, with all media attention on them. Their actions are what shift around public sentiment towards all superheroes around the globe. If the PCs raise or lower public sentiment, every other superhero is affected, worldwide. Depending on sentiment, superheroes in general might be exalted as messiahs (yet expected to solve all world problems and put on a tight leash), reviled as horrors, or viewed somewhere in between. The more positive sentiment is, the easier it is to lose goodwill due to unrealistic expectations.Following these variant genres are rules, guidelines, suggestions, and examples for meshing them together. Maybe you want to run space fantasy, where PCs of all kinds of fantasy species topple interstellar empires while cosmic gods step in as Meddlers. (Indeed, the space opera genre's rules do not cover aliens all that much, and simply instruct the reader to port over the high fantasy genre's rules for nonhumans, monsters, and such.)So that is Black Vans. I find it very fascinating, and I am eager to see where it goes.Deviant is, by default, a game about playing angsty, scarred superheroes who either fight world-manipulating conspiracies or work for them. Black Vans can adjust this heavily, removing the angst, the scars, the superheroes, the conspiracies, and more. So for context, what is default Deviant like?
>>97217920 Feels like an Edna Post.But yes, Deviant is excellent. I suspect it's because it has clarity of vision, a buiit-in tiers of play system and something for the ST to do in the Conspiracy system.
You have superpowers. You might have signed up for them willingly, been tricked or kidnapped into becoming a subject on an operating table, had the seeds of such abilities since birth, acquired them from some freak accident, personally invented some procedure or serum to give yourself superpowers, or had a more complicated origin still. In this setting, the line between science and technology and the outright magical and supernatural is extremely blurry; the differences between lab coats, supercomputers, and operating tables and rune-scribed robes, magic circles, and occult altars are purely academic (and are not distinguished mechanically).There are five "Clades". Cephalists manifest mind-bending psychic gifts. Chimerics draw upon the might of one or more organisms (animals, plants, fungi, stranger creatures still). Coactives manipulate energies both conventional and esoteric (luck, names, other supernatural powers, etc.). Invasives are armed with panoplies of technological, magical, or technomagical implants; or are more spiritually bonded to great weapons, armor, relics, and such. Mutants are simply built different, and need nothing more than their awesome, often eerie physiologies to achieve the impossible. Many powers are universal, and taking powers cross-Clade is very common.Later supplements offer subvariants of each Clade; maybe your Chimeric is a Pack Leader. There are also many "Forms," add-ons for concepts. For example, Transitionals exhibit qualities of multiple Clades (good for PCs who do not fit cleanly into any one), Amalgams and Symbionts are two different ways to represent someone fused with another organism or entity, and Summoners' abilities are embodied as external entities in a JoJo-like fashion. Automatons are machines, and Uplifts are animals. Outsiders gain powers from their otherworldly origin: different world, different plane or dimension, different parallel timeline, same timeline but from the past or future, and so on.
There are three big catches to being a Deviant.Firstly, these abilities come with Scars: major weaknesses. You might require long charge-up times for certain powers, they might activate at inopportune moments, you might be harmed by certain substances, you might be significantly more fragile or in poorer health than normal, and so on.Secondly, above and beyond your Scars, you are bodily, mentally, and spiritually unstable. You must manage this Instability wisely, lest your abilities spiral out of control and enter End Stage, an explosive and catastrophic end. How you eliminate Instability depends on your relationship with the conspiracies who ensnare the world.So perhaps you were coerced by a cult into forging a pact with a great god of the spirit world. The deity gave you a cursed weapon. You are now an Invasive, forevermore bonded to the blade: metaphysically, that is, such that the armament is always by your side one way or another. The weapon Scars you by draining your memories (Amnesia) and replacing them with a colder, more alien personality (Alternate Persona). Above and beyond that, you must take care to avoid the decay of your body, mind, and soul (Instability). On the bright side, the armament gives you all kinds of superpowers, including an awesome transformation sequence (Monstrous Transformation).Or maybe you flavor all of the above as being, say, a more technology-based cyborg instead.Thirdly and perhaps most importantly, you cannot go public. A number of conspiracies, collectively known as the Web of Pain, shape the world. They do not want Deviants to be too well-known. Most conspiracies are amoral bastards who cruelly manufacture or forcibly enslave superhumans. A rare, rare handful are more sympathetic.>>97217939Yes, the tiers are nice. I am getting to those.
Like many superhero games, Deviant is divided into tiers. Deviants of Threat Level 1–2 are Local, 3–5 are Regional, 6–8 are Global, and 9–10 are Otherworldly (i.e. cosmic). Those of Threat Level X are generally supposed to either fight (i.e. "Renegade" Deviants) or work for (i.e. "Devoted" Deviants) conspiracies of Standing X. Here are some canonical examples, some from the core rulebook, others from the upcoming Deep Dive supplement:• Standing 1: "A group of operatives, support staff, and bodyguards who have taken it upon themselves to protect and elevate Gustaw Bernhard, a billionaire celebrity-businessman."• Standing 2: The Parents of Psychic Children Network. These vloggers, psychiatrists, pharmacologists, and political activists want to help Cephalist kids, but wind up misguidedly abusing and exploiting them.• Standing 3: Corvalis Chemicals. Your usual super-duper evil chemical company, specializing in supplying other conspiracies who want to manufacture Deviants.• Standing 3: A collusion between one political party of a city's government, the city's crooked police, the city's criminal kingpins, and a company of A.I. tech bros developing "CopAI."• Standing 5: The Chinkon Collective, Japan's "order of psychics, mystics, and mediums who act as peacekeepers between humanity and the unseen world. They are investigators and diplomats, advocates and enforcers." This is one of the very few morally and ethically decent conspiracies.• Standing 6: The Society for Cultural Preservation, who started as an arm of the British Empire. They heartlessly take advantage of indigenous peoples across the world, recording and "preserving" their mystical lore and rituals.• Standing 6: The Abyssal Pioneers, a vast circle of cultists who operate from the deepest deeps of the ocean floor. They can send kaiju-sized krakens to attack coastal cities.
• Standing 7: The centuries-old cult of the great devil Lisedifen, who feeds upon enmity and atrocities inflicted upon anyone who could be considered an "outsider." They can spur a powerful nation into an all-consuming, xenophobic frenzy. They sacrifice or otherwise execute immigrants in droves.• Standing 7: The Onachus, "an old and powerful conspiracy whose talons reach far across Europe and the Middle East." They own a great many foundations, corporations, sects, and cults. They relentlessly study and exploit gateways to otherworlds, and crack open human souls to infuse them with alien power.• Standing 9: The Old Boys Club: extremely powerful, millennia-old, immortal super-billionaires who rule and steer the world mostly for their own whims.• Standing 9: The Stargazers, the harbingers of an outright alien invasion.• Standing 10: The Symposium, humanity from the far future: an all-powerful intergalactic empire, traveling backwards in time to bootstrap the invention of transtemporal technology to an earlier point.Some campaigns will be one-and-done within a single Standing and Threat Level. Others (i.e. the kind that takes dozens of sessions, requiring a really dedicated group) will be more zero-to-hero. It depends on what the GM practically thinks they can manage.And that is default Deviant. It is an interesting game, I think.
>>97217974Addendum: As far as the expected "power fantasy"-ness of Deviant is concerned, even lowly Threat Level 1 characters stand to vanquish whole rooms full of mooks. This is due to two factors. Firstly, the goon rules allow the GM to field large numbers of run-of-the-mill combatants who are taken out very instantly (and probably nonlethally, too). Secondly, Black Vans' quick NPC creation rules are specifically set up such that, yes, regular combatants really are trash compared to even moderately optimized PCs, even before the goon rules come in.
My ideal Deviant Threat Level is 6. They don't list it on their list of inspirations (because they're stupid), but Deviant is Showa-era Kamen Rider as hell, and you can't have Showa-era Kamen Rider without a global conspiracy of supernatural Nazi remnants using super-technology to create evil kaijin soldiers.
>>97218248Eric Zawadzki, does, actually, list Kamen Rider as one of the inspirations in the Shallow Graves supplement. The list also includes Elfen Lied and Parasyte.>My ideal Deviant Threat Level is 6.This is the highest allowed starting Threat Level in the Deviant core rulebook, though Black Vans goes out of its way to let you start higher, all the way up to 10. It also mentions that this is viable only in shorter campaigns, but that should be obvious.
I love Deviant, I've played several campaigns and it's always a good time.
>>97217920>I would like to talk about the Chronicles of Darkness game line Deviant: The Renegades, or more specifically, one major upcoming supplementOh neat, i hadn't heard about another deviant book dropping. Is it from the none more darker-group on STV?Currently my group is playing Deviant, so far it's way better than Beast. Personaly i prefer Changeling and Hunter, but it's mechanicaly sound enough to be enjoyable. I tried to go for a more social character for once and kinda regret not putting my freebie dots into more utility skills like drive and such.
>>97218809>so far it's way better than BeastThat's a low bar to clear.
>>97218838And some splats don't manage to clear it.
>>97218809>>97218320What would you anons say the appeal of Beast is over the rest of WoD or CofD? I'm aware CofD is fairly setting independent and you can sort of cook up your own stuff but lacking in the similar lore that old WoD has makes it difficult for me to invest time in planning out a plot and characters.
>>97218942Being a complete asshole without consequences. It's a game for meanies and bullies.I tried being evil but it felt very uncomfortable.
>>97218809To clarify:• This is technically a third-party product.• The only reason why it is third-party is because Chronicles of Darkness was abruptly stopped by the publisher. The last Chronicles of Darkness product published by Onyx Path was Deviant's own Clades Companion, back in 2024.• Eric Zawadzki was one of the two leads of Deviant core. He was also the lead for the supplements.• Eric Zawadzki is now writing almost all of Black Vans. It is still him writing, just under self-publishing.Eric Zawadzki put up his last supplement, Shallow Graves, on both DriveThruRPG and the Storytellers' Vault. According to him, Black Vans should be out in a couple of weeks.Previews have been going up on Eric's Patreon recently: some free, chapters' full text for paid subscribers.>I tried to go for a more social character for once and kinda regret not putting my freebie dots into more utility skills like drive and such.I am a great advocate for Deviant's own Hyper-Competence and Omnicompetence as boring, yet highly effective numbers-boosters for Skills.
>>97218942>the appeal of Beast is over the rest of WoD or CofDIt doesn't have one. Beast is one of the most poorly-written gamelines by far, probably the worst in all of ChroD. Its thematic premise was ass-backwards from its conception, trying to present the Begotten, who feed on people's fear and suffering, as a sort of allegorical oppressed group, while the Heroes they create by virtue of simply existing are egocentric chuds persecuting them for their nature despite them being anything but innocent. After the backlash OPP received due to the gameline seeming like weird abuse apologia, they were poorly rewritten to sand off their edges, leaving their concept weak and unfocused. You cannot look at the writing and mechanics of Beast and give a clear statement on what the game is actually about, thematically speaking. Is it about embracing being the monster the world sees you as? Is it about teaching hard lessons to humanity by terrorizing them? The corebook waffles.Beasts were also pitched as "the crossover splat," but while their crossover content is built in and they try to say pretty much everybody else is somehow related to them conceptually (because hurr durr they're the ultimate monsters), it's really inorganic and they don't have great reasons based on the innate drives of their splat to interact with anybody else, since the Beast/Hero cycle is so self-contained. Further, since their power floor is on the higher end of the splats, they tend to be unbalanced and lame to deal with in a splat's own territory. Part of the result of their cobbled-together concept is that essentially everything the Begotten do narratively, other splats already did better. Requiem already nailed being a predator who has to use others for your own satiation. Forsaken already nailed being torn between two worlds, one of civilized humanity and nature's savagery. Lost already nailed wielding the archetypes of myth and dream to take charge of the narrative of your own life.
>>97218982>>97220621Apologies friends, I'm kind of retarded. I had meant Deviant, but typed out Beast.
>>97220958From both a mechanical perspective and a thematic perspective, Deviant has the largest customization out of any of the Chronicles of Darkness games, by far.Clades do not matter too much for power selection, so you can build virtually anything. The Shallow Graves supplement expands this significantly.You can build a """"mundane""""" action hero, an elemental mage, a psychic mind-bender, a cyborg who can nanotechnologically produce an arsenal of weapons, some Baki-style Mutant: basically anything.Even the exact same character build can be flavored in multiple ways. An Invasive could be a cyborg stuffed with implants, someone bound to a cursed weapon, a person with a magical jewel embedded in their chest: anything works, really.Conspiracies can be virtually anything, too. I have listed some examples here >>97217964 and here >>97217974. Standing 1 conspiracies are small fry, and they rapidly escalate towards cosmic-level by Standing 9 and 10.Black Vans highlights just how much Deviant can be tinkered with to produce all different sorts of character types and genres. The fact that Deviant can be used to run a high fantasy setting without much issue speaks volumes to its flexibility.
>>97220958Oh, Deviant, by contrast is fucking great. It's an excellent capstone to ChroD as an IP. The heart of the gameline is its very well-implemented core power system based primarily on Variations (the powers) and how it ties them to Scars (an inherent drawback). Your options are extraordinarily broad, customizable in terms of specifics and lore, and really fun. Think of any given super hero or urban fantasy character you fancy, and you can almost certainly approximate their powerset given the variety of options at your disposal. This is especially with the STV content published by Zawadzki (the very dedicated lead dev) later, which expands your options even further, allowing for things like summoned entities that fight for you/stands. You can pretty much make anything you want. The gameline also provides a lot of nobs to customize the sort of game experience and scale you're going for. Black Vans, which OP mentioned, is going to provide options for drastically different setting milieus.Because the circumstances of a Remade's creation and its results are so variable and its mechanical customization so versatile, DTR altogether makes for the strongest "miscellaneous" gameline which covers any bases its predecessors fail to while being able to meld with and reflect their ideas as well if desired (it's easy to imagine Remade that come about as a result of the machinations of other splats or their antagonists). Thematically, it's big on themes like struggling with alienation from regular people and your former life, acting clandestinely to fall beneath the notice of something that wants to claim you, and the conspiracy and mystery cult angles that are common throughout ChroD as a setting.
>>97221065>Thematically, it's big onI can't believe I forgot this, but perhaps the biggest core theme of all is -revenge- and through it, perhaps justice. Fighting the conspiracies whose cruelty made you what you are and took everything from you, preventing them from doing it to anyone ever again. This drive to avenge themselves and the single-minded warpath it instills in Renegade Remade is the purpose and focus which keeps them grounded and prevent them from unraveling - whether physically, mentally, or spiritually - even as it's what makes them dangerous. I say "perhaps" because, if they are not entrenched in this conviction, they can instead be Devoted, having found a purpose to commit themselves to beyond their hatred. Unfortunately, this is usually to one of the conspiracies they would otherwise be fighting.
>>97221065>Black Vans, which OP mentioned, is going to provide options for drastically different setting milieus.>Thematically, it's big on themes like struggling with alienation from regular people and your former life, acting clandestinely to fall beneath the notice of something that wants to claim you, and the conspiracy and mystery cult angles that are common throughout ChroD as a setting.I will add that Black Vans specifically sets out to present variant rules and genres that let the GM adjust the tone and theme to whatever they want.Maybe the GM just wants some goofy, high-powered urban fantasy game with only a modicum of alienation and persecution. Black Vans can do that.A cyberpunk game about juggling a network of patrons and sponsors? A high fantasy game about heroic ideals and the interference of godlike beings? A post-apocalyptic game about hope and despair, and rebuilding a shattered world? A space opera game about toppling interstellar empires? A superhero emergence game about managing PR and worldwide sentiment towards all superheroes? A genre-bending game mixing several of these? Black Vans has this covered.
>>97221120I will add that even this has nuance.For one, while it is true that "go Renegade against the conspiracy that made you" is a recommended starting point, it is far from the only one. You might have Diverged thanks to an entirely different conspiracy, due to a freak accident, or because of your own wacky self-experimentation.For two, most conspiracies of the Web of Pain are indeed super-duper evil. Thus, Renegades fighting against them are "good guys" by default, while Devoted are positioned as "bad guys." But many Devoted are coerced or outright enslaved into service.Further complicating matters, some conspiracies are more neutral-ish, and a rare handful are morally and ethically upstanding. The Standing 5 Chinkon Collective and its Devoted are earnestly, genuinely trying to keep all of Japan safe from otherworldly threats. It is theoretically possible to play someone who goes Renegade against the Chinkon Collective, but if so, such a Renegade would absolutely not be fighting the good fight.
>>97221178Indeed, this degree of nuance is one of the major reasons why DTR is such a resounding success, while aforementioned BTP, which plays at nuance by never really committing to anything (i.e. many beasts say they exist to teach humanity lessons through nightmares, but in practice this is mostly just an excuse to justify their innately harmful existences) as a means of trying to cover up how incredibly shallow it actually is, sucks its own ass so hard it turns inside out.
>>97221178>>97221242Yet another point of nuance.Even in the best-case scenario of Renegades fighting some super-duper evil conspiracy, there are still so many innocent dupes and catspaws in the way. Let us take Standing 3 Corvalis Chemicals, for example, a stereotypically evil chemical company.Most of the people working there are simply wage slaves. They may be dimly aware that they are working for some "evil" corporation, but then, what huge corporations are not? Do these people really deserve to die when a bunch of Renegades storm a conspiracy Node with grenades, Storm Caller, and other devastating AoE attacks?This is precisely the point of Deep Dive's Kindly Ones, a Standing 7 conspiracy. They are dedicated to taking down the rest of the Web of Pain. Some are moderates, and some even try to eliminate evil conspiracies peacefully. The rest of the Kindly Ones are extremists who absolutely do not care about collateral damage, and think nothing of blowing up Nodes and everyone inside them.
>>97220998>>97221065Interesting write up anons, thank you. I'll probably still play oWoD but I'll be checking out Deviant on the side for some content Since I'm perma ST
>>97221483Deviant is CofD sadly...
>>97221143Does it have any alternative to the whole touchstone system? Because to me it feels a bit limiting that the only possible motivations you're allowed to have in the game is hating some specific guy, and "protecting your friends".
>>97218942>What would you anons say the appeal of Beast isAntagonists. Beast as written is going to appeal to very few people as players, but as enemies, they're superb.
>>97223856Yes, Black Vans specifically offers alternatives to Conviction and Loyalty.• One example replaces them with mortal humans' conventional Virtue, Vice, and Aspirations.• The Deviant-ified rules for Beasts, changelings, demons, Sin-Eaters, hunters (entirely separate from the variant rules for """natural""" superpowers), mages, mummies, Prometheans, vampires, and werewolves obviously do not have Conviction and Loyalty to begin with.• The cyberpunk genre and its rules replace them with juggling a network of patrons and sponsors.• The high fantasy genre and its rules replace them with heroic codes of morals and ethics (every PC has one, even unconsciously) and the drama that ensues from trying to live up to them.• The superhero genre and its rules expand conventional Conviction and Loyalty Touchstones into much broader scopes, though this takes some Merit investment.
>>97223439CofD is so setting agnostic that you can just rewrite everything to fit WoD with sufficient autism.
>>97227172Eh, not really. CofD has things like God Machine.
>>97221120How big are conspiracies?
>>97231406God Machine doesn't even matter outside of Demon.>>97235130They range from "A small network of labs funded by a small, but wealthy dark money group" to "World-wide with assets in every government in the world" to "Older than humanity and encompassing the entire galaxy."
>>97235231Sounds dumb. This isn't DND.
>>97235283If you pick the biggest conspiracy possible, all the characters are horrible, fucked-up Evangelion monsters constantly on the verge of collapsing into piles of radioactive gore and melting the entire planet into nanomachines and are only held together by love and hatred. It's Devilman, not D&D. The game doesn't actually want you to go bigger than SHOCKER.
>>97235301The game does, actually, want you to play at Standing/Threat Level 7 to 10 at some point, at least in theory. That is why the core rulebook has two Standing 7 conspiracies, Onachus and the Vigilance Society, and has rules for Standing 8 through 10.The upcoming Deep Dive supplement is supposed to detail ten conspiracies from Standing 1 to 2, ten from Standing 3 to 5, ten from Standing 6 to 8, and another ten from Standing 9 to 10. Many of them have already been previewed, mostly in full. Have a look at the blurbs for the Old Boys Club, the Stargazers, and the Symposium here, for example: >>97217974Black Vans specifically offers the possibility of starting at a Threat Level higher than 6. As far as Scar management goes, you can either:• Just deal with it.• Do the cheesy thing of picking the least inconvenient Scars.• Use one of the Black Vans alternate supernatural types, who do not have to deal with Scars.• Use one of the Black Vans variants that tremendously reduces Scars. The high fantasy and superhero emergence genres both greatly dial down Scars, for example, and there are suggestions for mixing and matching genres with bits and pieces.
Quick question:Can deviants be made by other splats? I read somewhere that you could.
>>97237624Yep. Basically anything can make a Deviant.
>>97237624Yes, this is referenced multiple times throughout the core rulebook, and Black Vans' chapter on other supernatural types repeatedly points this out.The process of making any other supernatural type, whether an Arcadian durance or a vampiric Embrace, could potentially generate a Deviant instead. Even just feeding, like a changeling absorbing Glamour or a vampire sucking Vitae, could potentially cause a Divergence.Similarly, it is possible for someone who is already a supernatural to become a Deviant. A demon, a mage, a mummy, or whatever could potentially undergo Divergence due to some freak occurrence.Black Vans' chapter on other supernatural types has rules allowing Deviants to "multisplat," in a way, and take select abilities from other supernatural types.
One aspect of Deviant that I find cool is how the core rulebook and the supplements offer three sample flavorings for any given power.Here is Creeping Dread. It is a Cephalist power, but taking powers cross-Clade is very common:>The Cephalist broadcasts dread telepathically but cannot predict the intensity of emotion it will inspire (Fluctuating Variation; Controlled; Wits).>The Invasive exudes a chemical mist through mechanical glands, which stimulates the production of fear hormones, but the residue of this chemical persists after she no longer calls upon it, causing everyone nearby to distrust her (Lying Eyes; Persistent).>The Mutant’s horrifying appearance inspires terror in everyone he meets (Conspicuous Appearance; Persistent).Astral Travel, Coactive:>The Cephalist projects his consciousness outward, leaving his body behind — a uniquely liberating sensation (Addictive Variation; Persistent).>With an act of will, the Chimeric sends forth her animal mind to explore her environs and enter the primal dreams of nearby animals (Tribulation; Controlled; Wits).>Whenever the Coactive rides the primordial currents of the Other Place, her blood loses its coagulating properties (Persistent Drawback [Hemophilia]; Controlled; Dexterity).Blessing, a Coactive luck manipulation power that can potentially specialize in granting fortune or imposing hexes:>The Cephalist implants self-doubt in the minds of her victims, which soon becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, but she is only imposing her own self-doubt upon them (Misfortune; Persistent).>Fae energies infuse the Coactive so that the web of Fate preserves him from many misfortunes. However, these faerie energies also project an untrustworthy air that poisons all his social interactions (Lying Eyes; Persistent).>The Invasive makes complex probabilistic calculations that only give the appearance of being luck, but the supercomputer displaces parts of her brain’s emotional center (Frozen Heart; Persistent).
>>97217920I got an original kickstarter copy of Diviant for 30$ Seems not alot cares about it past the main "Meat" of the Fandom for CofD but it's a decent if a light on world building
>>97217920Based on the detail and amount of posts I can say your a very passionate playerWish there was more like you
>>97242583I (and many others) shit on Edna/2hu pretty regularly, but they're one of the few bona fide yesgames let on /tg/ who cares about the games they like enough to post multipage autistic breakdowns of the parts of them they like the most.They're wasted on /tg/, and they're wasted on reddit, too.
>>97242591/tg/ as it is now, at least
>>97242578>it's a decent if a light on world buildingIt is supposed to be a toolkit RPG that expects the ST to do the work of fleshing out the Web of Pain. Even then, the core rulebook alone details four cities, each with their own conspiracies that make up a segment of the Web of Pain.Eric Zawadzki is currently writing Deep Dive, a supplement that fully fleshes out 40 conspiracies from Standing 1 to 10. It also has a full-on sample Web of Pain for STs who want something ready-to-go, spanning dozens of conspiracies.>>97242583Thank you.
>>97226424Any details on the first one? Does it still interact with the instability system?
>>97244627It is just a matter of straight-up swapping Conviction and Loyalty for Virtue, Vice, and three Aspirations. There are some guidelines for making it mesh with Deviant a little better. Yes, they grant Beats and Willpower and heal instabilities.
>>97242591I mean, 2hu's posts are generally very well thought-through, but you need to be in the right mindset to engage with them.
Thanks for the thread, I told my usual ST about it but I'm also interested in maybe running it myself.
>>97249036You have a lot of material to work with. Are you interested in running a vanilla Renegades game, the assumed default? A vanilla Devoted game? One of the Black Vans variant genres? Something else entirely?What starting Standing/Threat Level were you considering?
>>97218287>and ParasyteNice. I kind of wish they'd made it full tilt "build-a-monster" body horror, a bit like Nechronica. I know "symbiote" is supposed to let me build Eddie Brock but I'd rather it was telling you not so subtly to build Alex Mercer, y'know?
>>97223439That's why I made an oWoD conversion of it.
>>97250334I am afraid I do not see the issue. There is really nothing stopping you from flavoring your Mutant's abilities as grotesquely as possible and taking a high-Magnitude Conspicuous Appearance Scar. You could also take the Outsider Form if you want to be an actual alien.>I'd rather it was telling you not so subtly to build Alex Mercer, y'know?The [PROTOTYPE] series is listed as one of the inspirations in Shallow Graves.
>>97217938One aspect of the space opera genre in Black Vans that I find goofy, in a good way, is how even the lowest-powered (but still, of course, capable of mowing down goons due to the goon combat rules), just-a-bit-more-than-mortal characters are capable of toppling an interstellar empire in a fairly short amount of time. They do not even need the backing of a full-on rebellion.Somewhat like Star Wars, except taken to a more blatant extreme.
Sick thread, been looking to get into Deviant for a while, thanks for all the info
Is it possible to 'deconstruct' a different splat with Deviant? Basically making a dude that has all the powers and weaknesses of a vampire, but it's not a vampire? Like, a lab-made recreation of what a vampire should be like
>>97217920> A new supplement, Black Vans, has been in playtesting for a while, and is currently being previewed.I thought paradox had pulled the plug on CofD from onyx path in '24
>>97261986The author took it to the Storyteller’s Vault as “fan material”. The digital store.
>>97260395You are welcome.>>97260797Yes, it is very much possible to make a fake vampire, a fake werewolf (down to the spirit manipulation), and so on using the core rulebook alone. A fake changeling, even, given Shallow Graves and powers like Fate-Bind and Opener of Ways.It is also possible to use the Black Vans' 38,000+ word chapter on playing Beasts, changelings, demons, Sin-Eaters, hunters (entirely separate from the variant rules for """natural""" superpowers), mages, mummies, Prometheans, vampires, and werewolves using Deviant's own rules.
>>97262563Alright I'm def getting this shit then. The other Deviant supplements were pretty damn crummy so I was hesitant
>>97264048Have you had a look at Shallow Graves yet? It is very comprehensive in expanding player options.
>>97264144No, I only have clade companion and devoted, how many am I missing?
>>97264163Just Shallow Graves. All said, it is significantly more comprehensive a book than The Devoted Companion and The Clades Companion.Eric Zawadzki's Patreon currently has the full pre-release text of Black Vans up for subscribers, too.
>>97264163According to Eric Zawadzki, Black Vans is coming out on the 1st of January. Thus, you can pick up both Shallow Graves and Black Vans soon enough.
>>97269345Well damn alright, I just might
>>97264048Why are they bad?
>>97273102The two ones I checked out felt very bare bones in pretty much every way, specially the one that got into how different splats might interact with Deviants. From what I hear, this new one is much meatier in that aspect
It's basically just Guyver the RPG, right?
>>97275171Or Kamen Rider, or Akira
>>97275171>>97275276That is merely one of many, many ways to spin Deviants and conspiracies. Even without bringing in Black Vans, the game and its setting are pretty darned flexible in flavoring, as explained here >>97217944, here >>97217956, here >>97217964, and here >>97217974.A Deviant and their conspiracy could be John Wick and the assassin underworld, Baki and a grotesque fighting circuit, a magical girl and a wider network of fuzzy mascot creatures, a [vampire/werewolf/mage/changeling/etc.] gone wrong and their supernatural society, and so on.
Snagged a copy for super cheap on eBay, hoping I can get my group to try this out next year. I've always wanted to run something CoD/WoD, this seems a little more... approachable than Vampire.
>>97275333As I mentioned to someone else earlier, you have a lot of material to work with. Are you interested in running a vanilla Renegades game, the assumed default? A vanilla Devoted game? One of the Black Vans variant genres? Something else entirely?What starting Standing/Threat Level were you considering?
My Buddy Proposed that we play a game of DTR and when I was really into it and we were ready to go, my first instinct was to buy the first two volumes of 2000's Ultimate X-Men. Because it matches vibes, almost 1:1 especially in the second volume.Now I need to wait for foundry to have a good deviant module before we play so the damn game is probably delayed until 2026.
>>97270670Well, Black Vans is up on the Storytellers Vault.https://www.storytellersvault.com/en/product/550535/black-vans
>>97275389Edna you beautiful autism machine, I've barely cracked into the PDF of the core book and my physical copy won't be here for several days, besides which I have a CoC game and a Cyberpunk Red game that are going to happen before anything else, so this'll be a ways out.That being said, from what I've read so far and what y'all have been posting about, I'm hoping for something akin to hyperviolent, body horror version of the Secret World of Alex Mack.
What are the mechanics of the system? It's running storyteller i presume? I don't know anything beyond it being Xd10
>>97277915bump
>>97217964>>97217974How do existing Conspiracies ala Hunter the Vigil fit in with these? I bet the Cheiron Group have made a few accidental Tyrants in their time.
What do I need to replicate EGO from project moon?
>>97277915>>97280346It is ultimately the same d10-based dice pool game as Chronicles of Darkness in general, for good or for ill.Resource-management-wise, Deviants have no "Mana" pool. Instead, they work off 1/scene, 1/chapter, and in some cases, 1/story abilities. (Almost like D&D 4e.) However, each Clade has a method of instantly recharging abilities.Black Vans' earlier chapters introduce ways to adjust dice rolling, such as by allowing automatic success under certain conditions.>>97281142The Player's Guide to the Contagion Chronicle actually has a small section on crossing over Deviant and Hunter specifically, though this was not written by Eric Zawadzki.Eric Zawadzki did, however, write Black Vans, which has a much larger and comprehensive section on crossing over Deviant and Hunter.As mentioned in the opening post:>This is a beefy supplement. For example, one chapter alone dedicates 38,000+ words to playing other monsters of the Chronicles of Darkness: Beasts, changelings, demons, Sin-Eaters, hunters (entirely separate from the variant rules for """natural""" superpowers), mages, mummies, Prometheans, vampires, and werewolves. No additional supplements beyond Deviant are necessary; the rules are self-contained, allowing the group to play a monster mash of an urban fantasy setting without needing a daunting 7+ books. And yes, they are supposed to be balanced against one another, so a vampire in the same group as a full-fledged mage is probably some older Kindred.>>97281310I do not know know enough about Moon to say. Based on what I can read, though, it sounds close enough to Divergence.
>>97276424>Secret World of Alex MackFuck, dude. I completely forgot about that show. Now that I think about it, the Demon: the Descent campaign I ran a while ago accidentally had a bunch of Pete & Pete shit in it, from taking place in a small town full of weirdos that was weirdly isolated from the rest of the world and strangely without place to seemingly everything in town being owned or manufactured by a monolithic corporation with robotic, unsettling employees. How much has my lens for perceiving World of Darkness been informed by Nickelodeon shows from the 90's?
>>97282060what is magic like? spellslots or can you just do it however you like?What level of space opera are we talking about? Only psykers like star wars and starcraft or space magic?
>>97283540As explained here >>97217944, the game cares about five "Clades," Cephalists, Chimerics, Coactives, Invasives, and Mutants. Beyond this, the game does not bother distinguishing magic and super-science from one another; they are essentially two sides of the same coin. Even in-setting, the lines between magic and super-science are very blurry.Here are some examples of various flavorings for powers: >>97242552Even then, two characters within the same Clade might have wildly different flavor. A Coactive could manipulate quantum mechanics, or they may be an outright wizard. An Invasive might be a cyborg, but they could just as easily be the bearer of a cursed blade instead.>What level of space opera are we talking about? Only psykers like star wars and starcraft or space magic?Given the sheer diversity of Clades, it is closer to a kitchen sink space fantasy setting than anything. You can play a Chimeric space druid or a Coactive space wizard just as easily as an Invasive space cyborg or a Mutant bioweapon.
>>97283573i'm sorry that i can't really interpret those examples. i'm rather unfamiliar with vtm. from what i know the game does not have classes but different vampire orders, so those clades are similar to those orders giving you ideas about what you could be able to do? or are they more hard coded like classes and what you describe are similar to feats?
>>97284076CoD works in a two axis system, typically your 'race' (vampire bloodline, type of mage, werewolf breed, etc) and your 'guild' (order, association, tribe, school, etc), and each thing gives you access to different powers or abilities or schools
>>97284076>>97284091Deviant: The Renegades is a little looser than even that.The vast, vast bulk of powers are universal, not Clade-specific. Furthermore, the only limitation on cross-Clade powers is that no more than half of your total dots of powers can be cross-Clade.For example, if you are playing a Cephalist, then you could have half of your total dots come from [Chimeric/Coactive/Invasive/Mutant] powers, but no more than that.That is it. They do not cost extra or anything. And again, most powers are universal. If that still is not good enough for you, there is the Transitional Form from Shallow Graves, which is specifically set up to enable even more mixing and matching of Clades.
>>97284201As a caveat, there is a small handful of unique, exclusive powers for each Clade, called "Adaptations." But even this is not a hard rule; Shallow Graves offers ways to pick up Adaptations cross-Clade.Alternatively, Black Vans' high fantasy genre lets you simply ignore Clades altogether and just pick whatever you want for your character, all very build-a-bear.
Looks cool but having to keep track of everyone's conspiracy and keystones seems pretty cumbersome
>>97286169The core rulebook specifically suggests having everyone tied to the same starting conspiracy. This is why there is a rule for upgrading a conspiracy based on how many Renegade PCs oppose it. The Devoted Companion suggests much the same for Devoted PC games.If conspiracies still are not your thing, Black Vans offers options for removing conspiracies in favor of other antagonistic plot devices. The high fantasy, post-apocalypse, and superhero emergence genres are good examples of this.Touchstones can be a lot to keep track of, true. Shallow Graves and Black Vans both offer advice on this. If this still is not good enough, Black Vans gives options for removing Touchstones in favor of more conventional motivations, like Virtues, Vices, and three Aspirations.
>>97286712the conspiracies are a graph of connected people you need to take down?
>>97287020If you are playing a default Renegade game (as opposed to a Devoted game) and are not using any of the variant genres, yes. I mention some examples here >>97217964The variant genres do away with conspiracies or heavily modify them. For example, in the space opera genre, the conspiracy rules are used to represent space empires, which the PCs can topple.
>>97287119so if you were to play in one piece you could have a conspiracy on each island which would be the driver of the plot?
>>97287250Something like that, sure. The World Government would be a much more overarching conspiracy at Standing 9 or 10.One Piece is reasonably close to the high fantasy genre, though, so you could simply use the variant rules Black Vans' high fantasy subchapter. They replace conspiracies with a framework of epic quests.
>>97282735Pete and Pete definitely paints a lot of my weirder fiction sensibilities. That show was very close to being like twin peaks but for children.
I am taking suggestions on what I should piece together in a Google Document to showcase Black Vans material.Currently, I am thinking of writing up a Standing 1 space empire and a Threat Level 1 Devoted PC, essentially showcasing what a space opera Devoted PC might look like under the lowest scale and the lowest power level. (Then again, perhaps the space empire's one Icon could significantly boost the PC with even more powers than usual.)Do others here think I should try showcasing something else?
>>97291258I'm interested on both the space opera and superhero approaches, so I'm good with this
>>97291258i'm very interested in space opera. i think the only space fantasy one i know of is 40k and even that is very limited
>>97287799I might have to make a Deviant with ice-based Variations based heavily on the Orange Lazarus from Field of Pete, with Bob Oppenheimer as a sympathetic Progenitor. He wanted world peace, but has instead become Slushmaster, Destroyer of Brains.
>>97217920I've seen this game, and sat in on a couple friends playing it, but I still don't fully get how it works. It seems very interesting, but like I said all these scars and variations and such I couldn't really wrap my head around all that
>>97291589Scars are tied to variations. The more severe the scar, the more powerful the variation
I am working on a mini-setting for Black Vans' space opera genre. Since Black Vans has 38,000+ words of rules for representing other supernatural types using Deviant rules, I am theming half of the space empires after an interstellar version of one supernatural type (e.g. changelings living in tidally locked planets). I am starting off by drafting up seven space empires, and I will give full writeups to two in particular.Here is what I have so far:>This chronicle focuses on a sector near the heart of the galaxy, where seven interastral empires vie for dominance. These include:>• The Meshing-Cogs Halidom (Standing 1). The humans, elves, and other mortals of these sacred lands swear their bodies, minds, hearts, and souls to the God-Machine. Their deity rewards them with uncanny luck and charmed lives. Meshing-Cogs doctrine avers the God-Machine to be the rightful master of all fate and causality in the cosmos; unfortunately, the dark divinities of other systems cast It down ages ago, restricting Its reach to a paltry few stars. The arrogation of Its holy dominion is the greatest injustice in all of creation, which the Halidom yearns to revanchistically rectify. The people are intimately aware that they are few, but their resolve burns brightly.
>>97294832>• The Evernight Principalities (Standing 3). A long-dead species crafted a number of energy cradles to encapsulate and draw power from its home stars. A supernatural cataclysm extirpated the species and damaged the megastructures, severely limiting their transmission of energy. The vampires and mortals who were once the species’ slaves are now the masters of these metal-cocooned suns, though the Kindred rapidly rose above the kine. Three covenants rule: the hex-crafting archaeotechnomancers of the Circle of the Crone, the blessing-bestowing technopriesthood of the Lancea et Sanctum, and the sunlight-resistant emissaries and traders of the Ordo Dracul.>• The Many-Moon Territories (Standing 3). Lorded over by werewolves, these systems' planets are remarkable for the sheer number of large satellites orbiting around each. The largely Wolf-Blooded mortal population is grateful to the three great tribes who fight for the goddess Luna and her countless selenic servitors. The Bone Shadows hunt spirits directly; the Hunters in Darkness pursue the dreaded Hosts who horrifically mangle the Gauntlet; and the Storm Lords exorcise the Urged, the possessed, and the Claimed. The Uratha are cognizant that other interastral empires have their own spiritual activity, and hardly hesitate to pursue prey there, heedless of astropolitics.
>>97291258I'd be interested in how it shows incorporating the other gamelines to be run in Deviant. Is it portrayed as "This is roughly equivalent to an Auspex power from Requiem" or is it a bit looser?
>>97295792Check Eric's Patreon page. Some of the Black Vans excerpts are free:https://www.patreon.com/cw/Dayzdark/postsFor example, here are the rules for mummies' Utterances:https://www.patreon.com/posts/chapter-four-4-143772298As you can see, the crossover chapter (all 38,000+ words of it) is set up so as to be entirely self-contained, requiring no other books, except for maybe lore.
>>97294850>• The Freethorn Diarchy (Standing 2). Most of these systems have tidally locked worlds: one side always facing the sun, the other dark and frozen, and between them, a green and blue band. Trods from the Hedge are everywhere, and the crusts teem with iron, creating a safe haven for changelings. A quirk of the Wyrd makes Wizened the most common Seeming by a wide margin, and they have leveraged their transmutative abilities to turn the systems into an industrial powerhouse. The Daythunder Court crafts and peddles implements of war and battle, the Nightglow Court produces more peaceful devices, and both make iron Manticores and Deviants to hold off the Gentry.>• The Misty Irises (Standing 2). The Awakened of the Silver Ladder are the ruling caste here. They are loathe to admit it, but the military mages of the Adamantine Arrow command far more de facto power and respect than they were ever supposed to, all so heroic in the public eye. The people know full well that willworkers lead them, yet an intricate system of laws, protocols, sociocultural conditioning, and media standards ensures that Sleepers never perceive or question magic to begin with. The Wise strongly push for the Divergence; even the tiniest scraps of supernatural power create an ideal servant, whom the Awakened can be more brazen with spellcraft around.
>>97289132
>>97300405Nah i'll stay right here where the fun is
>>97294832>>97294850>>97298725>• The Nethershore (Standing 3). These stars are close to the ephemeral. Here, fleshy civilization exalts those who have Diverged and mastered the Universal Frequency. The people simultaneously worship ephemeral entities, yet all but enslave them; fervent prayer and petty offerings are, allegedly, fair payment for unceasing servitude. (Failing that, Ban and Bane databases are revered institutions.) Three systems stand as a triumvirate above others: the West Wind and its ghosts and Underworld gods, Liútiān (流天) Theater and its story-born yōkai, and the Dreamreef and its Astral goetia. Meanwhile, the Nethershore's devil, fiend, and qashmal hunters prowl the galaxy recklessly.>• The Sundered Constellation (Standing 3). Calamity eradicated the species that built these ringworlds. Megacontinents and energy collectors lie in ruin. Formerly enslaved mortals, animals mundane and exotic, and multifarious Manticores have reclaimed the unscathed segments. Sophont civilization has rebuilt swiftly, and redefined itself as tamers, breeders, gengineers, and merchants of beasts and Manticores. Three rings are dominant. The Thrice-Blessed Band specializes in creatures that bestow wondrous gifts upon others, the Resplendent Halo augments animals directly, and the Protean Torus designs new non-Manticore beasts so as to expand the options of shapeshifting abilities.And that is seven. Do these make a decent foundation for a space fantasy game?
>>97294832>>97294850>>97298725>>97301767how hard is it to run high level stuff in it without breaking the game? i see you're limiting yourself to standing 3 conspiracies? is there a reason or is it just the level you want to run your game at?
>>97217920How would you make Alien 9 campaign OP? I assume you've read\seen it.
>>97304151I ran a Standing/Threat Level 10 superhero emergence game, one-on-one, using the playtest material. It was very wacky and high-powered.For the space opera genre showcase I am trying to write up, I would prefer to keep it at lower Standings, since that is what I imagine most GMs would gravitate towards (especially with limited experience).
>>97306431makes sense, thanks
bump for interest
This is a Deviant...
>>97317070This is a Hunterknow the difference.
How would I build a Coactive with Randiant Solar Energy in their body which she can unleash
>>97317094That is a power source, not a power set. It could take many forms: Bioluminescence, Lash, many more."Channels solar energy" could justify a wide variety of Variations.
>>97217920Okay OP, you got me drawn in. It sounds like this thing could potentially run a mixed-everything Nasuverse game. What’s your verdict on that? Any problems to look out for? Can it do different power levels among PCs or is it better to relegate some characters to friendly NPCs? Does it do any resource management if powers are per-scene/session? If you know anything else about how it would interact with that setting, go ahead and brief us.
>>97321158Well, the book is out, for one: https://www.storytellersvault.com/en/product/550535/black-vansYou will have to pay close attention to the crossover chapter's rules on Standing/Threat Level. It is far from perfect, but it tries to create parity between supernaturals of different types. For instance, if a mage and a vampire are together in the same party, then the vampire is assumed to be much more experienced than the mage.You could give each player two PCs if you want, one at a lower Standing/Threat Level and one at a higher level. Alternatively, you could represent the entire duo as a level 8, 9, or 10 character with the Summoner Form from Shallow Graves.Heroic spirits are probably characters built using the high fantasy genre rules.You might be interested in knowing that one of the Standing 8 conspiracies in Deep Dive, the Magorum Collegia, is specifically themed as an international society of magicians who summon all sorts of creatures. Certainly, the game has room for anime-esque nonsense; one of the sample characters in Deep Dive curses enemies to have a mortal weakness to steel, and just so happens to conjure (flaming) knives of steel.Yes, the game does resource management, mostly in the form of per-scene, per-chapter (session), and per-story (story arc) abilities. Different character types have different ways to pay a resource to reset cooldowns. For example, in Black Vans, vampires can pay Vitae (that is, from imbibed blood) to reset cooldowns.
>>97321504Thanks, that looks like it’s worth a look at least. Lots of stuff to take into consideration when setting up a campaign, but it’s not GURPS.
>>97322107Thank you. I hope you might find it useful.Shallow Graves would also be good to pick up. The next I would look for is The Clades Companion, and the The Devoted Companion last. I would get the lattermost of these only if you are really interested in organization-level rules.
what's combat like in storyteller? how fast is it? my only experience i 5e
>>97324576Chronicles of Darkness combat is what it is. By default, it is gritty and lethal, but this can vary significantly based on the precise power levels and supernatural abilities of everyone involved.Combat between low-powered schlubs, where nobody gets to apply Defense against firearms, is very different from combat between high-powered heroes who do get to apply Defense against firearms.
I am currently adapting the shades from Mummy: The Curse 2e to a Black Vans space opera setting. I am stripping away references to Sekhem and Duat and making them broader in concept. My basic idea:>The tenebrae dwell in the interstellar medium. Outside of it, reality forces them into a unique Twilight frequency. The tenebrae are creatures of darkness who loathe light, and yet, they are deeply curious about corporeal sophonts and their societies. Tenebrae happily hop onto FTL ships mid-journey, then disembark to explore sapient-populated worlds, keeping to the shadows and the night. While they are eager to help out sophonts if asked nicely, people must be mindful that tenebrae have discovered a great taste for blood; it is something that does not exist out in the interstellar medium. They are thrilled to be around spilled blood, and to gorge upon it.They probably feed on Acclimation rather than Sekhem, too.
>>97328753what length are we talking about though? i dislike long drawn out combat. our last two session were a single fight and it's incredibly boring
>>97334298In my opinion wod/nwod games more leaning towards strategy and preparation before the combat. It also wants to be realistic. Because of that actual fights tend to be with tremendous advantage/disadvantage of one of the side and therefore fast.
