Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere. And as we enter this happiest and newest of years, remember: 2e was never an old-school game, bait is for reporting, and fish is for smoking! Happy new year, grogs!Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous thread:What OSR-related thing are you looking forward to most in 2026?
I just wanna talk about my BX game bros...
>>97333603Jfc six fucking threads deleted today
>>97333689Fishfag will just keep spamming them until he gets a vacation.
>>97333689
>>97333743You can make your own thread, like /todd/ or whatever.
>>97333648Same. B/X newfag here:My players are still very hesitant in regards to Downtime and deciding what to do next session. Instead we dick around a lot throughout the sessions and do shit that could or should have been done during Downtime but sometimes also some funny shit in the cities. I keep reminding them if they wanna do more shit in the cities they just need to tell me. I throw dozens of hooks at them and encourage them to share whatever they wanna do, that's what I run a sandbox for. So far the 21/21 session Lv. 6 Beastmaster is kinda scared after losing some retainers to Red Dragons. The Lv. 5 Dwarf is kinda suicidal thanks to his full plate and high dex, but the player is following the Beastmaster's hesitant lead. At least he used the passive session to construct a brewery. Maybe I should just roll with it if they don't wanna hunt treasures for xp and do their economic endeavors. Nevertheless, ignoring the threats in the surrounding dungeons and regions will probably end up in developments they won't be able to ignore (-;>>97333743Be gone, 2efag!
>>97333743yes i do :3!
>>97333776How often are you playing? Regardless, make sure they get back to town after each session, and that you have a week downtime between session, and slowly drop hints about things, then over time, affect the game world during downtime with those things. Also, just straight up ask them if they understand that it is implied as part of the game that they participate in the game world during downtime. In any case, have downtime events soft punish them. Serial killer in town? drop hints and show the secondary damage. Then if they choose not to look into it, a big thing happens. Them if they still do nothing, someone later catches then and theres a public ceremony where they get a ribbon and gp etc
>>97333648>>97333776Here's my dungeon (more to come). I need to add room numbers and actually fill this place out...
>>97334011We had a few months of break but when I run, I do it weekly with 1:1 downtime between sessions. I would also allow any heist scenario within the cities but only count the loot as treasure xp once they brought it to a safe place. My biggest sin as of now is probably keeping the character sheets by my players' demand. However, last session we had the situation that the level 5 MU forgot his sheet so I told him to roll a new character and if he can't find the sheet or provide reasonable backup, the character is also gone missing. But I feel like the actual problem is a mixture of inexperience but also their rather passive approach, perhaps them being overwhelmed by their limitless agency in my sandbox.>>97334125That looks really cool so far, curious to see the key and description once you're done.
>>97334181I'm inspired by Jaquays' work, especially Borshak's Lair and the top level of Thracia. I love her style so much! This is at a 10ft scale, so there are some huge rooms. I'm probably gonna make the rooms on the right side smaller, as those are kobold bases.
>>97334181sounds like its time to railroad them tbdesu
>>97334219Bad advice, players need time to grow into their agency.
>>97334268yes, but by putting them into the thick of a bigger situation, a DM can force action or punish inaction.It doesnt have to be over the top or harsh, but show them that they need to self-invest.
>>97333776Just give them 3 options to do in town and if they're not doing any of those move onto the dungeon. I've been using the Heat score from Scarlet Heroes for years at this point and it works well for adding occasional urban adventure that isn't the mainstay. Tends to come up frequently enough its a factor and the players think about it but not so often it becomes the whole game.
>>97334329shoot urself lmao
>>97333603>>>97324318 give him a slight berth as they proceeded, when he suddenly stood and declared “There is something you can do for me, die!”, just as his head threw back, and his swollen eye burst open, emerging from the socket, a swaying red-speckled albino demon-centipede, puppeting the old mans body! The party moved into position, but the puppeted warrior tossed the red sack behind their line, and from it came six more centipedes. Over the course of combat, the puppet-man-thing attacked with its acidic centipede bite, aided by its troglodyte-like stench. The centipedes used their bites to latch and and begin attempting to burrow into the PC’s guts to puppet them too. Fortunately, the brave party prevailed, recovered some health, and pressed on.(cont)
>>97334607sorry, forgot I already posted this part!!!The party finally breaks the woods, and sees what looks like a quiant but prosperous mountain village resort decorated for christmas, though the roads are bare, and several buildings boarded up. Soon, the party meets a gnome guardman on a corner, who after brief conversation, uses a whimsical flute melody to summon a squad of soldiers whom escort the party to the manse of the gnomish Mayor Winklebottom Jr IV. The jolly-acting but obviously distressed and exhausted mayor thanks the party for their swift arrival, and gives them each a round of fancy brandy to celebrate. The mayor tells the party of how local legend (which he disbelieves) says that the nearby Sugarplum Peak (named after the town proper) housed a long-imprisoned demon that would one day break free. He goes on that the smell started three weeks ago, worsening steadily, and that at the same time, random homes cames under attack by the demon-centipedes, who would take control of people, and then, a week later, people started disappearing into the night, running up the mountain. Many tried to flee the mountain via the sole sleigh paths, but were attacked and pressed back by the centipede things. Furthermore, he explains that they tried to send soldiers up them mountain two weeks ago, but that the stench grows so strong that even their strongest men would fall ill quickly. Since then, they have developed an innoculation of sorts, but have also lost almost all of their manpower to attacks.
>>97334616At this point, the party begins to feel a glowing pulsation in their breathing, and are very aware of every bodily sensation, and their visions makes everything begin to look more are more cartoony, soft, and jolly. The mayor informs them that the innoculation was in the brandy they shared, a special gnomebrew containing concentrated extractives of amanita muscaria (the psychoactive “christmas mushroom”). He apologizes for dosing them, but needed to ensure they took it for their own wellbeing. As part of negotiations, he agrees to opens his coffers to the party upon saving the town, and had the town priest heal them up and provide each with a potion of extra healing (of which of your guys will have one now), cost of which to be deducted after service completion,
>>97334630By the time the party sets out, they are fully in the throes of a mushroom trip, and the whole world has become animated like a rankin bass christmas special, with the landscape and monsters resembling sweets and treats. As the face the mountain, it is now a massive mound of whipped cream, dotted with giant green gumdrops, and the scent of filth from the mountain now smells like grandma’s cookies baking. In possession of a bottle of the magic potion coerced from the mayor by the frenchman, they march up the mountain. They traverse a rough terrain of cookie crumbles and brownie boulders, before coming to a slot canyon leading upward. They move up cautiously to the edge of the slot, with the thief using his boots to levitate up to peer over the walls, and as he does so, he espys atop the canyon wall a big wad of vanilla ice-cream wad giant-sized humanoid stuffed into a cake cone, wearing peppermint armor, and wielding a candy cane scythe, and buttermint boulders. He engaged the thief with boulders, missing, and the valiant noble Lord Arik moved up to gain his aggro, succeeding. The party took cover and started climbing the canyon walls up to the giant, while Arik stayed down and forward, as bursting through the ground came seven masses of yogurt-covered pretzels, twisted into the shape of monstrous lobsters.
>>97334653The ice-cream man was in fact an obese stone giant wearing armor made of centipede chittin layered over human hide, and wielding a scythe of bone dripping with blood. The giant threw a couple boulders at Arik as he fought the pretzels and the party climbed up the canyon. Arik pulled his horn of valhalla and summoned five 5HD ghost warriors who wiped out the pretzels. As the party climbed up, the giant positioned himself near the edge, and using his scythe did sweeping 3x1 attacks into their lines, causing great panic. Soon, they felled the giant and his lobstrosities, and move through the canyon.
>>97334704After another hour, they came to the near summit, and faced a 100-foot-tall cliff of peanut brittle. Choosing to swiftly ascend, the thief lashed a rope to the bard, and began levitating alongside as the bard pounded off spikes climbing upward. At the top, there was a plataeu that narrowed into a cave opening that looked like a massive cornucopia overflowing with massive sweets like tirkish delight, gumdrops, jelly babies, flan, etc. The bard and thief decided to ignore them and spent time hammering in a final spike, when, failing surprise, turned around to see the deserts surrounding them. In desperation they both jumped, with the bard’s boots of levitate slowly loweiring them. They waited for the deserts to drop over, but to no avail. A turn later, they are reinforced by their MU, Anti-Pally, and Assasino, arriving via a giant walking christmas tree-walker
>>97333603>97333977kekarooskidesune
>>97334125What do the stars represent? And is there any cool shit in the bottom of that pool?
>>97334125Looking good, Anon! Interesting expansion of the cave. The shape seems a little awkward, but that's end-stage polish stuff anyway.>>97334967Traditionally a star in a circle represents a statue. It's a TSR convention, but I don't know where it originated or why it was considered a suitable glyph.>>97334198>her>>97333743>you don't get to do this!lmao, looks like we do, fagballs
Just to piss everyone off, I have purchased the Arduin Grimoire Compendiums, both of them, and am using them in my next game.
>>97335129>Just to piss everyone offYou mean all your players, or...? I don't think anybody in the OSR gets mad about Arduin, it's generally seen as a charming but bonkers set of early house rules.
>>97335129I'm so mad. Can u donate to an anti Israel fund?
>>97333603I don't really object to leaving the new year's greeting from last thread in, it's still early in the year, but whoever makes the next thread should remember not to include it.>TQRepeating my answer from the miskilled thread, I'm hyped for Melan releasing his Fomalhaut DM Guide, which I'm hoping will be this year, at least. I also want to get City of the Ape-Men which I haven't picked up yet due to moving house.
>>97335199checked and donated $99 to hamas in the name of a macris
based gay retards
>>97335319>Arik the Silver Trident>wields a longsword
>>97335319
>>97335333trident is his ulty baka>>97335353crucify fishnog
>>97335357>trident is his ulty bakaI can't read your crazy moon language!
>>97335319>15 characters>one labeled (me!)Either there were a fuckton of players in this group or the artist did unusually well playing his Sonichu-medallioned... Illusionist? What class is that even?
>>97335353>youre not the arbiter of what osr is.You may want to reconsider that belief, Fishsticks.Also,>no apostrophes
>>97335382well fuck you too ig, thats my old cleric pardue who hit name level before being disintegrated.this isnt sonichu stuff >:(
>>97335382yeah its a group of sixish + hench, nogame
>>97335390>thats my old clericOh yeah? Prove it. Draw a similar pic of a PC named L'Apostrophe the Orthographic and post it as a reply.
>>97335396well pardue was originally a joke char because he had 4 WIS. but he survived to name level, only to go kaioken and die after to a beholder.everyone wanted him back. but he died three time before. Apu said it was time to join the eternal swingset.
>monsters are immune to MU prepared damge kekaroo im ready for salt
>>97335380big boy shooty tooty!
>>97335403That's not the proof I requested. If you're the anon who drew this pic back in February, and you just stopped using apostrophes since then for some reason, you should be able to provide another piece of art in the same style easily.
>>97335420im pardue, and im a pro-acks poster. im too drunk and without tablet for a new drawing, but ive posted before plenty
>>97335474>>97335420Here's the tablet sources , got the tablet
>>97335420If you done believe me I'll tell you about any char
>>97335509Don't*sry lol
Lmao profane dunk on the nogames. Got any special stories?
>>97335530Had a few puzzle solves and fights helped. Died when I went super saiyajin.Lesson? not learned, I'm buck wild
>>97335474>>97335499>>97335509Huh! I'll eat my words, Anon, I'm a fair man. We've had far too much shitposting here recently from an anon stealing others' images and typing similarly, credulity is at a low ebb. So he was a Cleric, huh?
>>97335544Yeah, my joke cleric made it to name level by the book. I did a suicide charge against a beholder utilizing my own special super Saiyan spell plus a dimension door from a magic user to put me into perfect position I died instantly from the disintegration that was ready, and it was the third time he died so I decided it was time for him to stay behind with his god, Apu, the frog of friendliness
>>97335556>his god, Apu, the frog of friendlinessare you fucking trolling
>>97335570no
>>97335582fucking unreal bullshit
>>97335556>cleric made it to name level bymake any magic items?
>>97335570noe, just forest gumption>>97335584not my creation, it was a rogue DM>>97335594sadly no.
>>97335544the liquor is calling the shots now
>>97335499ai slop
>>97335597>rogue DMFoe bullshit. Use proper high gygaxian and call him a thief DM in the future.>>97333689>osrg suffers tpkTodays mod must be one of those killer dms I've been hearing about.
how am I supposed to read this? from the expert set.
>>97336003nvm im retarded I get it now
>>97336003>>97336013ah but another thing - does the party flee to a random nearby hex if they succeed? don't see it addressed in the booklet but make scene to me
Glad that's sorted.Reposting my terrain turntable I use for online DMing because another Anon asked about it a few threads ago. As far as what I'm looking forward to for this hear; continuing Stonehell, getting into Hyperborea and getting more models/terrain on the table.
>>97336018In OD&D it's one (5-mile) hex per failed evasion attempt in a random direction, with a half day (or maybe a full day, I'd have to check) of "recovery" required on the following day(s)In AD&D it's one hour's worth of movement in a random direction per failed evasion attempt, with recovery dictated by the forced marching rules.In B/X it's unspecified because Cook < Moldvay.
>>97336189>terrain turntable>online DMingcool table but how do you use it
Holy fuck this thread has gone to shit.Who is making these posts.
>>97336439>>97336439One or two of the most samefagging autistic faggots imaginable, qWho got 6+ attempts at actual threads deleted because their autism cannot handle people talking about AD&D 2e & Shadowdark in this thread (they apparently own it, get to determine what OSR means and WILL project their hijacking on you and call you their strawman "fishfag" if you disagree)
>>97334967>What do the stars represent?Statues!>cool shit at the bottom of that poolAn aboleth!>>97335121Thanks anon. I'm having fun.
>>97336417Thanks. I point a webcam at it and stream it to my players. We don't use it for anything other than combat, and it's generally just used to clarify positioning of enemies and terrain. Realistically, it's an excuse for me to show off my miniatures and terrain but my players enjoy it.
>>97334125Followup: how far away should I set this from the party's starting town? We'll be playing in Wilderlands, starting in Haghill. Maybe 30 miles?
I joined a group that does rotation DMing so I'm due to come up in a month or so, want to run a hexcrawl in B/X. I have played and run a bit of B/X before but would like to get a bit more experience, anyone here got experience with solo play?
>>97336545Thank god. I was scared these posts might be from actual people.
>>97336189I spot Dungeon Craft's universal terraingood taste
>>97336545Fuck off make your own nusr thread, 2nd Ed thread or whatever.
>>97334125Amazing job! Now it really looks like something interesting for the players to explore, rather than just some random secret passages sprinkled around.Looking forward to your session report.
>>9733661730 miles away is going to be challenging for beginners, because that's two days of travel, more if they make it back with heavy treasure. Planning for resources, plus the danger of encounters on the way back when they're low on HP and out of spells, is going to be difficult. It can be fun, but also frustrating.If they're already experienced with first decade D&D, then it's perfectly fine. Otherwise, a half-day's walk or even less is often what's recommended for starting newbies.
>>97336698>anyone here got experience with solo play?Yep. Appendices A, B, and C, optionally with Wilderness Hexplore and/or the ACKS II terrain encounters, make for a great game.
>>97335474Pardue! My man! What's been cooking since Pardue died anyway? Anything interesting happened in your campaign?
>>97336189Nice UDT and minis dude
>>97336595Have you ever heard of Talespire on steam? It's a 3d VTT that I use and it's really cool. If you want to see the community hub to check it out, its talestavern.But I've been experimenting a bit with Kiri engine and my own minis to try and mod them into talespire too
>>97336545>>97336439Fuck off I was drunk and having fun talking
>>97337382Howdy! We put the game on hiatus for a few months but we are currently playing a festival holiday themed Adventure that I am running called assault on gumdrop mountain.>>97334869 is the end of our latest session report. We play again in a few hours!
How many dungeons, factions, and lairs should I prep for a 2.5 year long westmarches where I expect to run about 325 sessions?
>>97335382Before 3e big parties was way more common.
>>97337581Welcome, Anon. Sorry, but I'll be blunt.>westmarches Westmarches is a 3e thing. Did you mean to ask on /3eg/ and came to the wrong general, or did you mean to ask how to run a standard first decade Gygaxian campaign?Assuming it's the second thing, the way you're asking the question makes it sound like you have very little or no experience running this sort of thing. You expand to such a campaign as needed, you don't have everything prepared in advance. The very fact that you're asking this makes it sound like you have a few core misconceptions about how first decade D&D works.Maybe tell us what your past experience is what you have DM'ed, how long for, and what materials you're planning to use for this campaign. We could start from that.
>>97337615Agree. That's why I tried to close on a constructive note.
>>97337013>>97337388Thanks, guys. I like dungeon tiles a lot, but they don't work great over webcam. UDT works well enough over the net.Next up is a water terrain topper and this longboat. I'll also have to make some appropriate sea monster minis.(After the 16 Lizardmen I need to get painted. The party is likely to encounter them soon.)
>>97337581Make just a bit more than what you need for a given session. You have no idea what your player will do so you could spend hours fleshing out Fort Stinky Socks and never have it visited.
>>97337400I made a mini for my friend to use in Talespire for a 5E game his friend is running. I appreciate what it is, I guess, but it's not really for me. It's a bit cumbersome and I think something like Foundry is easier to work with for similar results. I like physical terrain and miniatures. I don't even use a VTT, we just play over a voice call and use DungeonScrawl for mapping.As an aside: the 5E game my friend is playing in is not going well. DM and most players are pretty green, but combat is taking so long they'll never actually accomplish anything. We're talking 3+ hours to fight a handful of Goblins and a Wizard. My friend (who plays in my games) told them that combat can and should be resolved faster than that and nobody believes him.I'm going to be running an introductory game for one of their players and a few other people to show them the light of the OSR.
>>97337601I mean a campaign with 20 or so players. I've played in two such games that lasted around 7 years total but they had multiple GMs. I've ran maybe 60 sessions in that span and was directly involved in the high level planning for both games.I guess westmarches is probably not the right term because I'm not just prepping shit as players schedule stuff. It's more going to be>I have several adventuring regions prepped that I'm using the sandbox preparation suggestion discussed in arbiter of worlds, EG, 2-3 large dungeons, 7-10 medium, 15 or so small with around 20-30 dynamic lairs based on terrain type but extrapolated out to several regions.We used a crafting day for downtime stuff previously. And we did a mixture of sessions and out of session text RP at the player hub. We used 1:1 time for long rests and basically froze time during sessions and we expected people to be back at the hub by the end of the session most sessions unless something crazy happened.We used 5e for those games but I'm going to be using OSE for this as it's the OSR system I have the most experience with. I've ran Hole in the Oak, Isle of the Plangent Mage, Incandescent Grottos, and Hall of the Blood King as my experience with OSE right now.What I'm planning is much more closely aligned with what gygax did I think. Though I've already thought of a few gameplay distinctions related to the world and campaign I plan to run. I can detail those out if it's helpful but largely the main issue I'm unsure of is ballparking how much content I might need.I'm thinking primarily along the lines of>Making and organizing a bestiary for the setting/regions>Making the dungeons>Making calendars for 2.5 years of play>Making factions and clocks>Organizing things so that I basically have a bunch of tables made specific to the campaign that I can run from.>>97337676I do not want to be prepping session to session keeping just ahead of the next session. Part 1
>>97337707I've run several campaigns like that before (prepping just ahead of the next session) and I can tell an immediate difference in quality and easy of running week to week between that and running where I have a bunch of material ready and all I have to do is improv and react to PCs as they decide what they're going to do. As long as I have the stuff I can't prep on the fly in a VTT like maps, stat blocks, spells, etc then I can be far more of an impartial judge and reactive DM to what they're doing.
>>97337581I think it's a good idea to prep a folder of lairs to save on generating then on the fly and pull from that whenever monsters are encountered as being in-lair during overland travel. It's simple enough to whip something out but any amount of prep that can save time at the table is nice. As for how many, you won't go through more than a couple in a session, so you can always just refresh your supply.
>>97337707Oh, I should specify that the two westmarches games I was a part of were both about players mastering a region on the borders of adventure from a player hub. There was maybe 400-500 sessions total between all the years. (Primarily about 5 years now that I think about it.)
>>97337581Lmao retard
>>97337707You're off to a good start. Just one thing:>I do not want to be prepping session to session keeping just ahead of the next session.NTAYRT, but I think you might aim for the right balance between the two extremes of prepping 2.5 years in advance vs. prepping for the next session only. What you have:>I have several adventuring regions prepped that I'm using the sandbox preparation suggestion discussed in arbiter of worlds, EG, 2-3 large dungeons, 7-10 medium, 15 or so small with around 20-30 dynamic lairs based on terrain type but extrapolated out to several regions.is already enough for several months of play, assuming you play once a week for four hours. See how fast you burn through it, and add to it as needed... just not one session in advance, but maybe 10.Just one word of warning: While I really like ACKS, its worldbuilding procedure is NOT aimed at a O/A/B/XD&D campaign, because ACKS makes two radical changes:1) A bunch of lairs per six-mile hex.2) About four times as many encounters per day when travelling on foot in the wilderness than B/X, AD&D, or OD&D. Even more if travelling on light horses, perhaps 8-10 times as many.This is because ACKS campaigns are geared at CONQUERING and DOMAIN PLAY at medium to high levels, not at wilderness exploration. So if I were you I'd take what you already have, and scatter it on a MUCH LARGER map.I also think you'll want to implement % in lair statistics, that you can take from ACKS or AD&D (B/X doesn't have them), and familiarise yourself with generators like Wilderlands of High Fantasy and those from ACKS itself. Learn to improvise a bit, even if you are resistant to it.
>>97337850One day you'll be able to see someone comment on ACKS without having a 'Baby wanna wahwah' moment.Today, however, is not that day.
>>97337785In Anon's defence, he started out poorly, but he's actually much better than he made himself sound in the beginning.
>>97337740>There was maybe 400-500 sessions total between all the years. (Primarily about 5 years now that I think about it.)Unfathomably based.
>>97337839I'm not adverse to improvising, it's more about what I can and can't improvise. If I was playing at a table in person and players were drawing the map and I could just pull monsters from the book and a few tables things would be a lot easier for sure. But I'm using a VTT with dynamic lighting and stuff and so things do have to be a bit more concrete. Though dungeon geomorphs and an organized tile/object system can help you improvise a lot better.In terms of world exploration I'm trying something a bit different than hex/square region maps this time around. Instead I'm going to try and do something like a mini region based point crawl.From the DM side something that looks more like this with a set amount of random encounter checks and wilderness procedures between mini regions to give a gamified procedure to world exploration while preserving mainly highly interesting specific region and adventuring location maps.It's going to be a bit different than a normal game because players didn't really like the high lethality of OSE, so my solution is making the campaign set in the afterlife at like a hub cathedral between a bunch of demiplanes and afterlife regions. The players are basically going to be exploring to earn divine good boy points and to figure out why souls can't pass on. When they die they return to the cathedral and their soul draws closer to the lower planes. I'm going to average out a parties death count when they leave on an adventure and then have the world change a bit determines by their death clock and the parties general alignments.Most of the major players are going to be extra planar entities either trying to cheat death, or trying to figure out why death is broken. There's some other stuff too that I'm changing, in regards to classes races, spells etc. I really want it to feel strange and built around the specific setting and experience.
>>97337938You're hardly a person Fishfag. More of a disease really.
>>97337934I respect the work and effort you're putting in, and while what you're doing may classify as playing OSE by the spirit of its contents (especially the modules you're experienced with), it does not qualify as playing Dungeons & Dragons. I wish your table well with your campaign, but the more you describe it, the more it sounds fit for /nusrg/.
>>97337950Call everyone fishfag some more. Let everyone know the extent of what you can do when people call you out.
>>97337996Okay, yeah this definitely could be the wrong general, my apologies if that's the case.
>>97338016No worries, you're sharing enthusiastically and seem open to what others are saying. If you haven't read them yet, I'd like to refer you to the n00b DM's and player's guides in the OP as they give the best idea what kind of things the play espoused in this general is based on. If you have any questions or matters unclear based on that, especially in relation to your campaign, this is still the place to ask, and maybe reading them will give you the perspective to understand why I think your campaign errs on the side of nusr.
>>97337938It's wild how much of a divide there is between the handful of real posts in this thread and all the... whatever the fuck the guy fluffing it is pouring in.
>>97337996>it does not qualify as playing Dungeons & Dragonsyou know it's a step too farby this point it looks like you really are just farming reactions
>>97337707>and Hall of the Blood King as my experience with OSE right now.How did that go? I've had a copy for a while and it seemed quite good but like it needed a bit more rooms and space between them.
>>97338229>>97338238Don't respond to him. Keep the thread tidy, please
Given he's got his own thread to go wallow in, I agree.Leave him to suffer in his own company. The fact he's here, dragging his arsehole along the carpet again proves that he's so insufferable that he can't even stand himself.
>>97338269Can I screencap your post.I think it might be useful later.
>Gygaxian>less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplotsI ask what does Gygaxian mean? Obviously it means in the manner of Gygax, but what that means is what I'm trying to get an explanation of from people here. The implication from OP is that Gygax didn't write linear adventures with overarching metaplots but I'm not convinced this is true. I'm also not convinced that the 1974 to 1983 time frame is free from linear adventures but that's not so important right now so I've omitted it and may address that later.When I asked before there was some childish deflecting about>you're asking in bad faith so I refuse to answer the question>suspiciousNeither of those amount to more >I'm going to throw shade on that question because I'm scared that I have no valid answer to demonstrate that those two statements in OP are not as contradictory as they look and I'm going to avoid the issueAsking someone to explain their belief of how two things that give the appearance of being contradictory are not contradictory is not asking in bad faith. Anyone who thinks that is bad faith needs to look up what bad faith means. Although I know that there are people who are going to want to jump on this statement and use it to again avoid the question: It could be that I am mistaken about those things being contradictory, I don't think I am but I could be. The only bad faith here would be the accusation that I asked in bad faith and even then the person might simply not have a clue what bad faith means and think they're using the term correctly. Having a bias is not bad faith.Other than the two children I referred to above who obviously lack sufficient integrity and maturity to deal decently with others and who are unable to handle the possibility that there might be discrepancies in OP without crying, can anyone here explain what Gygaxian means?
>>97338540It's quite straightforward: "Gygaxian" means that you're fishfag with yet another schizo take on attempting to lawyer 2nd ed into the general and no one gives a fuck about what you think.
>>97338554hes gotten desperate lol
>>97338540>Sincere question: 83 words>Well poisoning bullshit: 244 wordsAnd then you wonder why everyone identified that you're a duplicitous wanker who is here in bad faith.And since you're a faggot who won't take that on the chin and insists on screaming 'Debate me bro'; yes Gygax wrote linear adventures. But when he did they tended to be for tournament play or other very specific functions.Gygaxian gaming is less "Gaming as storytelling" and more "Gaming as play in a natural world."It doesn't have linear adventure paths because real life doesn't have them, it doesn't have metaplots because real life doesn't, it focuses on, first and foremost, a setting, a world, a place that the players characters exist as part of and then the story grows from there.More than mechanics, more than plot, more than even what the DM wants, the most important thing about a Gygaxian setting is that it is Real.It is a place where characters buy hobnail boots not for a +2 to tumble checks, but because they're sturdy.A place where the players might take a look at a situation and go "Not yet. We're not ready." because they know that the dice fall where they may and the DM is just there to be a fair arbiter of what happens, not someone who is preparing the world to their whim.It's a place where monsters and NPCs have their own motivations, instincts and goals beyond just "Get hit by the PCs until XP bursts out of our piñata bodies."It can be fantastical of course, but in a consistent way that, given time, the players can learn to understand and work with.If I might suggest a perfect example of such a game?Someone did an ACKS campaign in an Aztec setting and posted it here a while back.Go read that and see a living, breathing world, where players have to plan around the world, rather than the world being planned around the players.That's what Gygaxian is all about.Now watch him seethe at getting an actual answer.
>>97338540Gygaxian is BrOSR speak for "Appealing to an imaginary Authority.">>97338554Go on, call everyone fishfag, see how far that gets you.
>>97338681>everyone I disagree with is brosr >fishfag is a boggyman pathetic
>>97338681>muh brosrschizo retard
>>97338617While you started out being a whiny faggot the way you put it sound like realismfaggotry I think you got the overall ideal and yes that can be lots of fun. Also I find it funny that the only thing of note of that Aztec campaign (at least as these threads go) is a story about how the players found a good fishing hole.
>>97338786>>97338796meds, samefish
>>97338540>can anyone here explain what Gygaxian means?Best summary I ever saw was"We're here to play games, not to have fun!"Gygaxian is serious business.
>>97338617Hey man, don't you know he can refute that by bringing to light the Known Truth that ACKS is inherently clunky, unfun, book keeping that nobody could possibly like, because it's subreddit has < 1000 members? You don't stand up to that argumentation any better than a wet paper bag in a windstorm, bud.
>>97338897who cares lmao
>>97338897Don't forget that the people who talk about it are exclusively these weird guys who stand out from the rest of the board because any time people start shitting on the game they start screaming "fishfag" at everyone like they think that's how genuine people act here.The whole "I think I can convince people my games are good with everything except the game actually being good" style that is inherent to these losers is almost sad, in a way.
>>97338941It's funny when they post pages and don't even see how bad the game is.They have literally zero design competency.
>>97338941post more fake character sheets lmao
>Tries to make a fake thread to snipe out the real one>It fails outright due to people shitposting at him>His faggoty fake OSR thread goes into sage>He's immediately, instantly back here shitting up the actual /osrg/We really are never going to be rid of this faggot are we?
>>97338953Please explain. Surely you are wise and clever enough to enlighten us.
>>97338198That's basically my evaluation. I'd make your own map for it. I also think you should add some more normal vampires. The vampire visitor list is filled with like cyborgs and fish people and stuff. It feels sort of cheap to have the vampire adventure and there's like no normal vampires really. Also I personally found the D20 reference as kind of silly, idk. There's definitely some changes. Also the other thing is there's not many lower tier badguys, most of the enemies are super dangerous so you might just have people avoiding everything.
>>97339048The mass combat rules feel like a shitpost.Someone posted them, and after the dumbest, longest set of procedures that took almost an entire post just to summarize, he concluded with "and then you begin the second turn."
>>97336189Nice bruh. Sweet setup.
>>97337553Wouldn't even waste time and letters on that speg lad, just let him seethe
>>97338617Nice picrel and nice concise why to put it.>>97338681Of the Brosr are using a term you can safely assume they are using it wrong.>>97338796W-what?
>>97339678The Brosr are not relevant here, or anywhere else at this point, their 15 minutes having long since come and gone. Anyone bringing them up on /tg/ is just coping hard, and it's best to ignore them or rather, him
You're a delusional fag who goes to enworld
>2022>and 2022What a surprise, it's almost like you have dig up four year old convos to find somebody besides (You) who gives a shit about this
>>97339020>We really are never going to be rid of this faggot are we?No, we're going to be able to mock his impotent failures forever.
>>97339080>The other thread proved more popularLMAOOOOOOOThere were like three real posts in that thread.>If what you truly want is to be left alone in this thread, wouldn't it make sense to just leave the other thread alone?We've told you before, we'll leave you alone immediately once you stop calling it an OSR general.
>>97340182There was like one guy in this general who said AD&D was the only real osr game, and I haven't seen him for a few years. Nobody here says there is one true way to play; which does not mean that any which way is therefore perfectly compatible. It isn't stated here that 1:1 time must be perfectly adhered to, but that a near 1:1 time scale is best (ie suggested) for several groups in the same world. Nobody here demands an automatic tpk if players can't make it out of the dungeon before the session ends. Silver standard is tolerated, even if some think it's worse in practice. There is no "patron play" like how the brosr faggots do it. So I don't know how you come to the conclusion that osrg is just brosr in all ways, but name alone. Just because it's somewhat more restrictive than generals for other games? That's a you problem. There is plenty of diversity within and around the structures of first decade style play already.
>>97340278>Nobody here says there is one true way to play;What a lie. Hell, there's cunts who insist that some OSR games are not even OSR.
>>97340297>some "OSR" games are not OSRThat's because grifters and reddit and retards like (You) have spent years stretching the term to accomodate almost anything
>>97340297Within specific and narrow bounds there are many (possibly infinite) variations of how to play. Brits have been making variations on Agatha Christie murder mysteries since the first Hercule Poirot novel was released.If you are unable to comprehend that then I weep for you but cannot help you about it.Please read your dmg and put out an expression of interest at your friendly local game store. Until then please post elsewhere.
>>97340389Saying there are ways of playing which are antithetical to the style and game design intentions is not the same as saying that there is a single way to play. And yes, some games which are marketed as OSR run against the general conventions, some of which can be bent, a few broken, while some others must remain quite rigid.>>97340389>try to impose their more restrictive definitions of OSR onto everyone elseThis is one space on the internet, the restrictive" definition is imposed internally. Stop trying to impose your overly broad definition here.>there is no such thing as a singular "BrOSR" style of playDiversity of play style, just like we all want. Great!>will almost always lean towards strict playcry more>Going through various forums discussing the BrOSR, alongside the self-styled BrOSR blogs, the only commonality I can really truly find is just "I am an asshole and let me tell you what the proper OSR is", with that being particularly pronounced on those latter blogs.lol obsessed much? I just equate BroSR with that jeffro guy.>R U Insulted!? X Dno lol
>97340389>97340491Fuck off fishfag.
>>97340491>You are claiming their is a true way to play OSR gamesYes, within narrow bounds not a straight jacket.>try and avoid the BrOSR label It was one fucking group.>You are trying to split hairs over "single way to play" [followed by a load of nonsense goes here]This was just silly, but I do maintain that being roughly in line with the first few sets of rules, particularly where all of them were united in word, or in spirit, is necessary to qualify as OSR. Adding too much onto that, or removing too much either buries the genre's core qualities, or diminishes it to the point of being a few anemic tools to assist in make believe. It's a matter of quantitative change quickly becoming qualitative, and vice versa, until you get something fundamentally different. >I'm far from the only personI know, there's like a whole two of you. WOWA>you are a BrOSRWho the fuck words an accusation this way?
>>97340640>This was just silly, but I do maintain that being roughly in line with the first few sets of rules, particularly where all of them were united in word, or in spirit, is necessary to qualify as OSR.What is "roughly in line" is subjective, as is the determination of "first few set of rules" and whether that really matters at all alongside huge debates over what is the genre's "core qualities".There's a pretty good reason why your personal definition belongs to a very small minority, and the major reason is that you are insanely close-minded while also being pretty fucking dumb, and that has a way of being quite unappealing to most people.We are talking about a subjective topic open to debate, and yet you imagine that you can try to impose your personal definition, using a fair number of underhanded methods to try and get your way, all in an effort to do what? Brainwash people into accepting your definition in hopes that it will gain traction one day enough to supersede the commonly understood definition? I doubt even someone as dumb as you has that grand of a delusion.If you just want to discuss "your" style, than there's no reason to try and impose it on everyone else, as you can discuss your style and ignore styles that you are not interested in, as regular people do on this website. If you want to have every discussion be done from a position where you can simply insist you are correct and everyone already agrees with you, then you are psychotic beyond even what we've seen from you.Let OSR be OSR, and at least do the minimum research of looking beyond the handful of blogs that agree with you so you can realize just how big the OSR world is and how weird you are trying to make 4chan of all places the space for your personal echo chamber.
>>97340700>roughly in line" is subjective, as is the determination of "first few set of rules"Not in the least. You can analyse where rules and guidelines circle back to, how mechanics interact, what is a tangential system and what is core.>whether that really mattersOf course it damn well matters. The pieces that compose the whole influence the whole to a great degree.>closed minded, and dumbOmg rude>underhandedNope.>impose your definitionI think it's quite nice and broad, personally.>something about brainwashingYes, I literally want to brainwash people.Must I emphasize the sarcasm for you?I also reject your third paragraph entirely because osr is rules + game format. It is a particular thing and not an expansive family of things, nor a bunch of gameplay ideas to be taken in all different directions with different design goals. And saying I am psychotic for simply holding to a narrow definition only reveals your own absurdity.
Started playing a one on one game with Winter's Daughter and Acks. Been playing like a dream. The templates make rolling up characters effortless even while in a hurry at the table. I've given old mate two characters and three henchmen and so far he's only lost one character to the animated statues. I'm thinking I'll pop him down at the Barrowmaze when he's done here. Anyone here have any experience or advice for running a game with a single player?
>>97340944What are you doing to make it viable for a player to solo adventures like that? I don't know ACKS very well but I don't recall it having Scarlet Heroes-type rules.
>>97340954Did you not read his post? He runs two PCs and three henchmen, that's a five-man party, just run by one player. Scarlet Heroes is for single PC parties, you don't necessarily need it for single players
>>97340976No, I follow: I just worded my reply like shit.I'm curious specifically as to how he's managing that. I guess the answer can just be "he pays attention and is fine with running all that at once", but I'm curious if any allowances or rules changes or what have you are being made to facilitate this. It's a rather unique niche, the Scarlet Heroes problem but with a rather different solution.
>>97340954NTAYRT.Scarlet Heroes is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and a poor one at that. There is no need for special rules to play with one player in OD&D, AD&D, or B/X: Just give his character henchmen up to the PC's Charisma allowance, and play by the book. (Not multiple PCs to use in the same party, that is disallowed by the DMG.)Scarlet Heroes is bollocks for plebbitors who don't understand how to play D&D.To everyone else: Ignoring and reporting fishfag is a complete reply to his posts. Anything more than three words ("fuck off, fishfag") makes the thread worse for everyone.
>>97339678>W-what?He's a little shitnigger who didn't want an actual answer and doesn't like being called out on his inane faggotry.
>>97340954No special rules. I don't know Scarlet Heroes and so don't know what allowances it gives to it's characters. With two player characters can hire up to 8 additional henches (assuming median charisma) for a party size of 10 which is a healthy sized party by my reckoning. >>97340994>Not multiple PCs to use in the same party, that is disallowed by the DMGDidn't old Gaza run Mordakain and Bigby simultaneously?
>>97341143>I don't know Scarlet Heroes and so don't know what allowances it gives to it's characters.NAYRT but it's basically a set of mechanical changes meant to make one character the equivalent of 4-5 normal PCs.>Didn't old Gaza run Mordakain and Bigby simultaneously?Mordenkainen, but yes, Anon is either trolling or just oversensitive due to the constant trolling ITT. The DMG does advise referees not to let players run more than one PC simultaneously, but it's in the context of large campaigns with many participants where players may each have more than one PC, and Gygax assumes the referee's player pool will be either too immature or too cutthroat to play the PCs as two allied but in some sense competing individuals, but will benefit their favorite PC at the expense/with the collusion of the other. He's correct that this kind of shit is liable to harm a campaign, but none of that applies to your situation.
>>97341251>The DMG does advise referees not to let players run more than one PC simultaneouslyMore or less, but to me it sounds like you're overstating Gygax' caveats. The DMG encourages DMs to let players run more than one PC simultaneously under certain conditions, but it warns that the PCs must not be associates. Picrel.>He's correct that this kind of shit is liable to harm a campaign, but none of that applies to your situation.While I agree that a single-player session vs a multiplayer campaign are very different from one another, I still don't see why one would (need to) allow a player to run multiple PCs at the same time in either situation: That's simply what henchmen are for.The moment you allow players to run multiple PCs at the same time, it simply never makes any sense to recruit a henchman, ever, since they're just worse PCs (lower ability scores, earn fewer XP, subject to loyalty checks and morale rolls).
>>97341143>Didn't old Gaza run Mordakain and Bigby simultaneously?Yes, but that was before he wrote the DMG. So presumably his own experience led him to recommend otherwise. See my comment above on why anyone would ever recruit a henchman when he can just run multiple PCs in the same party. (And the limitations on number of henchmen lose meaning too,)
>>97341284I've read the passage, yes. I think the distinction between us is no more than that I would have underlined "in general" rather than "the multiple characters belonging to a single player should not be associates". I feel the rest of the paragraph makes entirely clear what Gygax's concerns with the situation are.>The moment you allow players to run multiple PCs at the same time, it simply never makes any sense to recruit a henchman, ever, since they're just worse PCs (lower ability scores, earn fewer XP, subject to loyalty checks and morale rolls).If a single player in a single-player campaign is allowed to have two PCs, it makes plenty of sense to recruit henchmen. I don't believe Anon suggested that he was allowing his player to make PCs promiscuously. I think the undeniable fact that henchmen are just worse PCs is a good reason to allow more than one PC; if Anon is refereeing scenarios written for a normal group, those expect 4-5 full PCs and some indeterminate number of henchmen. Compared to that, two characters with full advancement is hardly overpowered.(Actually, I suspect many adventure modules for OSR games of expecting zero henchmen. The sensibility of writers like Gavin Norman often seems to me to be mired in new-school/trad assumptions about what an adventuring party looks like. But that's beside the point.)
>>97341309>(Actually, I suspect many adventure modules for OSR games of expecting zero henchmen. The sensibility of writers like Gavin Norman often seems to me to be mired in new-school/trad assumptions about what an adventuring party looks like. But that's beside the point.)Fair issue to bring up. This connects back to your general point: My advice presumes an orthodox campaign in which there is no set goal or specific module that the player has to go through, so it's up to him to determine the amount of danger he is willing to take, e.g. how deep to go into a dungeon. Under my assumptions, the fact that henchmen are (slightly) worse PCs is not a huge deal: It just means that the player just takes proportionally less risk and everything works exactly as intended.However, even if we assume a module written for kids who play with no henchmen, running it for a player with one PC and multiple henchmen is just a matter of having the party be slightly higher level or picking a slightly easier module.The only REAL issue I personally is that of XP wastage: IIRC, in B/X Henchmen are allotted a full share of XP but only keep 50% of them, so a one PC + Henchmen party will increase in level slower than intended, as almost 50% of all XP are wasted. This is just a bad rule.This issue does not exist in D&D, since there Henchmen get a half share and keep all of it. So the effect is just that the PC will be, on average, one level ahead of his Henchmen, but the party as a whole will be progressing as intended. No problem with that.
>>97338617>Someone did an ACKS campaign in an Aztec setting and posted it here a while back. I remember reading half his pdf, good stuff
>>97338617>More than mechanics, more than plot, more than even what the DM wants, the most important thing about a Gygaxian setting is that it is Real.Lmao this delusional faggot.>A place where the players might take a look at a situation and go "Not yet. We're not ready." because they know that the dice fall where they may and the DM is just there to be a fair arbiter of what happens, not someone who is preparing the world to their whim.>It's a place where monsters and NPCs have their own motivations, instincts and goals beyond just "Get hit by the PCs until XP bursts out of our piñata bodies."You're really jerking yourself over nothing. Also, a DM that slavishly procedurally generates is following a whim to do so, cuz even Gygax said that's for fucking retards and not how rules are supposed to work and he himself didn't even follow his own rules while turning off his brain.DM's are supposed to be fair arbiters yeah. But you make it sound like they're supposed to braindead because you're so entrenched in villifying "plot" like anything more complicated than "here's random stuff, deal with it" is choo choo railroading.
>>97341916>More than mechanics, more than plot, more than even what the DM wants, the most important thing about a Gygaxian setting is that it is Real.Oh wow, that is a particularly dumb line.
Can you sum up for me what are the principles of OSR a DM should follow. It would be ideal if you gave me a brief explanation for each point. So far I got:>Player agencydont restrict your players choices, at all if possible, as little as possible if you need to>Emergent Storytellingprepare minimal story, let players decide what they do and how they do it>XP for goldreward exp for the gold the players carry out of the dungeon or otherwise obtain>Do the Book keepingkeep track of time and resources. Follow the procedures for encounters and such>Natural languageput your PCs in a situation, let players figure out how to get out of the situation, than have them explain to you how they want to solve it, you as the DM decide what mechanics to use
>>97341916>If you lean in close and listen carefully, you can actually hear this poster sucking his own cock as he wrote this.Notice how this cocksucker doesn't present a contrasting world view or alternative answer. You could replace his entire post withhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBsVyyWKbgUAnd it'd mean as much to the discussion at hand.
>>97342028>doesn't present a contrasting world view or alternative answer.Are you illiterate?
>>97342028For a guy who thinks his games are "real", you have a weird thing of not realizing who's doing the "real" dick slurping.Waxing poetically about sandbox play and calling it exclusively Gygaxian while you have your own dick in your mouth isn't a good look bruh.
>>97342014There's a list in DM's n00b guide in the OP.
>>97342006>>97342138Only semi-related, but I actually get a bit concerned about people who try to describe their games as "real" or "more real."Rushing right past any delusions or questions of sanity, I'm actually concerned about outdated design concepts such as GDS/GNS theory, and almost always it's just someone who is just taking everything from a heavily "Simulationist" approach.Its very easy to focus exclusively on only the positives of one of the three legs of the stool while only focusing on the negatives of the other two, which is largely why most internet arguments over GNS devolved into flame wars between people arguing which leg is the most superiorest ever, all while they sat on heavily slanted stools.
>>97342299>If you desire verisimilitude you're mentally ill, am winnerAlright retard, back to the naughty corner with you and take your paste bucket with you.Clearly you can't be trusted to play nice with other people yet.
>>97342390Verisimilitude is good, but you don't get that with just a purely "Simulationist" approach. You even agree, considering you play some sort of D&D, and the D&Ds, in general all tend to skew towards Gamist when all RPGs are weighed. So, it's hardly even worth arguing with you over whether Simulationist-gamist is somehow supposed to be inherently superior over Narrativist-gamist (especially since the arguments over superiority are always idiotic). But, this is all using a model that is essentially two decades out of date, which is actually why I find people who subscribe to a "Simulationist" approach somewhat concerning. It sometimes feels like looking into another doctor's bag and seeing "Balancing the Four Humors" as their only reference.
>>97342480No one has brought up GNS theory at this table except you, fuckhead. You're the one talking about an obsolete theory to, rather cynically, attempt to apply it to discussion you disagree with so you can claim they're crazy people.You're a retard who is hearing a discussion about high blood pressure caused by salt sensitivity among blacks and going "Uh, excuse me, why not just break out the Calipers while you're at it, fucking Eugenicists Klansmen." because you think it's a cheap gotcha.No one is going to take you seriously or respect your opinion because you and your opinion are inherently unserious and unrespectable. In fact, you're disrespectful, because you aren't interested in the actual discussion going on and want to stop other people having it.When you're quite done being a retard, you can come join the rest of us at the adult table and have a proper discussion. Until then, stay in your lane and keep your head down, cunt.In the meantime, since I know it'll make you seethe and bawl like a baby, time for a thesis discussion on what makes a setting more real;
>>97342560>"What is Gygaxian gaming anyway huh?">"It's when you treat the setting like an actual, natural place rather than a theme park.">Immediate, incoherent babyrage about how 'How dare you call me a storyfag :(' when that was never saidYou can whine about it all you like, but in the end you have to swallow the facts or you'll choke on them.>'Anything more complicated than "here's random stuff"'Since we're approaching real retard labour hours of you seething over this, I'll throw you a bone.You can have plots going on in your setting, but they have to make sense and be consistent with it.Know what the difference between a Kitchen Sink like Golarion and a (mostly) coherent setting like Birthright is?The amount of consistency in its internal mechanics and details.No one in Birthright is going to go 'Well I solve the Gorgons bullshit using a laser rifle I picked up from the next country over. Took me like 2 days to go get it :)' but that could unironically happen in Golarion.Most modern settings use adventure paths as a crutch because they have to hyperfocus on some very specific thing going on to avoid breaking the illusion that the setting is an actual place rather than a collection of bullshit thrown together with the restraint of a 7 year old explaining what their house is going to look like when they're older (And it'll have a swimming pool and 3 dogs and a race car bed and I'll play games all night and it'll be in space and-)Golarion is a setting where cybernetically enhanced demons can ride Moonbeasts into combat against I-can't-believe-they're-not-Wakandans.It's, frankly, excessive, the equivalent of shoving your head under the Mr Whippy machine and pulling the handle until it chugs empty.And its metaplots are in line with this excess, it's a world that's under threat every other Tuesday from some potential apocalypse that randos have to rise to the occasion and stop.
What is wrong with this guy.I didn't expect that pointing out that hhe had an incomplete simulationist approach would result in such a meltdown. Though, in hindsight, I guess that's to be expected when you challenge someone's... "reality."
>>97342606You can, very easily, run a Gygaxian setting with a larger plot going on in it. Hell, watch this:>The Emperor of the City at the Centre of the world has an ongoing alliance with a nearby barbarian Kingdom, in the past decade or so the last ruler of that horde died of a broken ass and now his two sons have started asking questions about which side the civilized folk are on.Stealing from the Byzantine-Mongol Alliance for reference, you can make this feel like a real historical incident while still having one of the barbarian factions being Orcs and the other one being Half-Orcs, with the real, logical consequences of how the factions interact being the background to your players actions.Who knows, maybe they'll pick a side, or join the Emperor and become ambassadors.There are things going on in this setting that will happen with or without the players input, they’re a metastory which is outside the players direct control and they don’t even have to get involved if they don’t want to.And it is, you notice, a single metastory of a single thing that could do serious damage to a single culture in a single part of the world.You can't, then, however, have the Emperor do some retarded bullshit like declare war on both factions at the same time without any reason except 'Plot gotta progress', because that breaks the illusion of him being an actual human being.Same way you can't have the next country over is engaged in WW1 Trench Warfare between two Great Alliances of Wizards who are using demons as their footsoldiers and blasting each other with Mustard Gas.Because immediately the question is ‘Well how do the fuck do they have demon tanks while we’re using bows and arrows’These two things can exist as separate plots in separate settings and each be internally consistent within their own setting. But they can’t exist in the same setting together unless you do some real welder work to get them to fit side by side.
>>97342607He's a self-described gygaxian.His whole life is just "cope."
>>97342390if realism is good and important then D&D is a garbage gameall editions, no exceptions
>>97342638What I don't understand is who he's arguing with. I don't think he actually read anything I said.
>>97340994>NTAYRT.>Scarlet Heroes is a solution to a problem that doesn't existalso ntayrt Some players don't want to run lage parties themselves. Some players want a more hack & slash conan themed adventure. It solves both these problems.
>>97342014Dungeon exploration, the game is for dungeon exploration. There can be variation, but the core set up is exploring, not necessarily combat. Combat as war, not combat as sport. There will be violence, not in a fair way. Chose terrain, timing and tactics to your advantage or the monsters will. Negotiation, not all encounters are combat. Not all combats are to the death. Have objectives, the monsters do.
>>97342480>>97342607>purely simulationist >incomplete simulationist lol where did anyone but you say that? You have failed to answer any questions about your game to contrast though. Very telling.
>>97342873That's because he doesn't have an answer.He's hollow as an easter egg, all chocolate, no filling."Hahah, your ideas am gay, me am smurt" is easy to say, following it up with your own ideas is far harder.
Fishfag returned, I see. Shame, although very funny at the same time that he knows how comprehensively he's failed.
>>97343686Sadly he's realized that starting 'OSR - Fish edition' is never going to work and therefore he's back to whining, seething and pretending not to understand things.
>>97343837>pretending not to understand thingsDon't attribute to malice what can more parsimoniously explained by fishfag being a mentally defective subhuman with a severe case of literal clinical autism.
>>97343916>Don't attribute to maliceOr rather don't attribute to _pretence_. The subhuman retard is malicious, there's no doubt about it.
best 3 classic starting modules that can be completed in 3-6 sessionsgo
>>97339303Thanks, man. I like it. Need to make more dungeon dressing.
>>97344189...fuck, I don't know of manyI really loved Borshak's Lair though
>>97344189B2 by Gary Gygax (pbuh)T1 by Gary Gygax (pbuh)Borshak's Lair by Paul Jacquays
>>97344687can b2 really be completed in 6 sessions at a steady pace?t1 is pretty mediocre tbch
>>97345111>can b2 really be completed in 6 sessions at a steady pace?Depending on the group (both players and DM) and the length of each session.
>>97345401>>97345420Fuck off fishfag.
>>97345401You're dealing with someone who is more bad faith than he is human.>>97345420That's just his version of the Koran. He's the pbuh guy.
>>97345401
>>97345516Maybe he just misclicked?
I'm growing convinced that this is just one guy shitting up the entire thread. Notice how every time one guy in the argument "owns" the other one, two more people chime in on the winner's side?
>>97345558>on the winner's side>""""winner""""Of course it's just one guy samefagging. He astroturfed all his hijack threads too, with the most pathetic no-effort single line replies. Just report and ignore, the jannies are actually doing a decent job rinsing these days.
He really does EVERYTHING in bad faith, huh.
>TQCastle Automatic for His Majesty the Worm>b-but that's not gygaxianshhhhh.
>>97345420Eat shit fishfag, the DMG is essential and obligatory reading
it's been a while since I've come round to these threads. what happened? there's far less discussion and story times, just endless trolling, thread after thread of the same shit too.anyways, it's been a long hiatus since my party has gathered, due to a combination of the holidays and my schedule changing. the party essentially wiped on floor 3 of stonehell. two of them were paralyzed and captured, they may yet live. when we finally play again, I've introduced the additional classes from ose's advanced rules. really looking forward to it.
>>97346714Yes, they are. By the way, can you quote me where exactly in the DMG he says that, because that's very based.
>>97347152We have a schizo troll who is obsessed with trying to convince us that 2e is on topic for the thread. He has made a fool himself in numerous ways on numerous occasions, and has even begun actively bothering other threads
>>97347222>if I call myself fishfag nobody will know I'm fishfagWe've already explained to you a million times why this doesn't work, fishfag.
>>97347222Nice false flag. Got any more fake character sheets to show us?
>>97347267You got any reuploads of someone elses from a blog to show?
>>97347276I've only ever posted my own, with the file creation dates visible. What are you possibly referencing?
>>97347326https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/97333907/#q97333974Pic related, this sheet was copied from https://followmeanddie.com/2015/06/27/character-sheet-in-a-sheet-protector/"""Fishfag""" posted actual sheets and your gotcha is...what's clearly house rules?
>>97347384>"""Fishfag""" posted actual sheetsThose are not actual character sheet lmaoAnd that link you posted has nothing to do with me, so it's irrelevant
>>97347396>those aren't REAL character sheets because they have house rules! He clearly made them up to FOOL us! Yes! He's out to get us!And it has everything to do with you because you posted it lol.
>>97347417It has absolutely nothing to do with house rules and everything to do with the numerous glaring errors. Having exactly zero XP is also very telling, because even if they were authentic, you've never once played with them, and if those are the only examples you have, then you've clearly never played at all.
>>97347417I'm really curious, can you tell us about what house rules your DM was specifically using that are reflected on your sheets?
>>97347429> if those are the only examples you have, then you've clearly never played at all.>What is a Forever DM?>you don't understand, you must have a record of character sheets to show you have played, every true scotsman has all their sheets.
>magic itemTwinlimb CrossbowThis rather heavy magical crossbow has dual limbs linked with gears. This allows the user to angle the weapon against two different targets. Pulling the trigger fires both quarrels simultaneously.
>Janny deleting on-topic posts and leaving the shit stirring ones upSame as it ever was I suppose.
>>97347573You clearly don't understand how green text formatting works. You might be a forever DM but by your own admission you have only ever ran a single session, if that. And even a forever DM has played at least once, you literally have absolutely no evidence of ever having once actually gamed a single session.
what do you use for weight tracking? frankly, I find the coin weight system very confusing and hard to grasp. am I just retarded? I'm too scared to post my custom weight system.
>>97347573If you were the forever DM, then why are you talking about how your character sheets arent full of errors but full of "house rules"?Clearly they must be your own house rules since you are the forever DM, so it'd be very easy to tell us exactly what house rules you are using for your character sheets to appear like this?
>>97348822Yes, you are genuinely just too fucking stupid. Coin weight is just pounds tracked to the tenth. What could you possibly be having trouble with over this
>>97348822>I find the coin weight system very confusing and hard to grasp. am I just retarded?A bit dim at least. The #cn is just 1/10 of a pound and it's given that way to make it extremely easy for the referee to calculate how many coins a given character can carry. The stupid part is that a coin weighs 45.4g, that's over five times too much for even a heavy historical gold coin like the aureus and almost exactly ten times too much for a more typical coin like the solidus. But this is just autism.
>>97348842He's still got a point though, Fishfag's irrelevant schizo rambling absolutely isn't on topic either but it hasn't been removed.
>>97348921Ignore him and let him seethe by this point I'd say. I made my point about the difference.That being 5e and 2e, lel can never be OSR the same way he'll never be a woman, but PbtA could, hypothetically be used to design an OSR game.Just not an /osrg/ game.
>>97348969You will never be a real /osrg/ poster, you have no games, you have no character sheets, ect, ect, so on, so forth.
>>97348969So do you mind telling us what the situation is with your character sheets and the DM's house rules? You said that your character sheets aren't full of errors that they're just filled with House rules. You also said that you are the forever DM but admitted that you have only ever run one session though. So what DM are those character sheets for, and what house rules specifically are reflected on those sheets?
>>97348984Please explain to us the thing with the character sheets. We pointed out numerous glaring errors, but you have told us that they are just House rules from your DM But you said that you don't play and never have played as well. So can you explain to us specifically what those house rules your DM is using on your character sheets?
>>97345111B4 might be a better bet, you'll spend less time fucking about in the keep.
>>97347655>>97347669Why did these get deleted? Too reasonable?
>>97349063Presumably a combination of mass reporting and being too aggressively based.
>>97349063Most likely because PBtA is indeed off-topic.
>>97349110This anon can't read for content or context.>>97349104This anon can. Know the difference jannies it could save your board!
>>97349063Because pbta is strictly off topic you fucking bozo
>>97349114Lmao fuck off you Junior janitor wannabe. Your dog shit posts got deleted because they are so far off topic that they couldn't even be considered tangential>Nooooo you can't just use the report system for what it was intended for, save me jannyman, aiiiie!
>>97349157>Because pbta is strictly off topic you fucking bozoMeanwhile the post itself:>more importantly even if it were to be done tomorrow, I doubt the people in this particular thread would be interested in it unless it was really, really solid since it couldn't directly mechanically interface with older games, it'd just hit the same tone and style.>And they have a right to decide what is and isn't welcome in /osrg/>So if everyone else decided that no, it's not an /osrg/ game, I wouldn't insist on talking about it because unlike you, I'm not rude or self-absorbed enough to insist that no, I HAVE to be able to talk about exactly what I want, wherever I want to, as and when I want.God save us from the absolute certainty of the functionally illiterate and fundamentally retarded.
>>97349157>>97349181>If I just spout shit everyone will agree with me! lol noI think this is the crux of why fish and his alter ego will never figure it out. They're actually illiterate and unable to parse for content.
>>97349197What exactly am I spouting that is shit? I am correctly asserting that pbta is not and cannot be an OSR game. If you believe otherwise, then you are genuinely mentally ill, and if you're a troll, then you deserve to have your posts deleted just as they have been.
>>97349186>>97349197You think you got fishfag in some epic own but all you did was make yourself look like a fool. There is no way to argue that pbta could possibly be osr.
Why are you pretending there isn't?He's real, he's admitted it, just as he's admitted that he doesn't play and hasn't ever played.
How the fuck did people let this thread get so bad.It's been like five days since someone made a real post and that was by accident.
>>97349286It's always been a slow general. Trolling can inherently overwhelm goodposting with mere frequence, and now that fishfag's idiotic attempts to hijack the thread with his own retard OPs and spinoff threads has been comprehensively defeated he's back in here trying to shitpost it to death. The only real fix to this is the jannies either watching the threads like hawks (can't blame them for not doing this t bh) or permabanning him, otherwise it's pretty much going to be tardspam followed by mass post deletions in a loop until fishfag's undoubted obesity and suppurating open wound where his dick used to be kill him.The best thing you could do would be to post some good facking content instead of complain, t bh.
Jesus christ it tried talking to me.Why the fuck did people let this guy turn this general into his schizo show.
>>97349270>all you've done is flail about.I'm going to actually take you seriously since you included something of a play report.The point being made wasn't "PbtA is on topic, hurr" it was "Even if someone made a PbtA game that was an OSR emulator, which is possible because PbtA focuses heavily on replicating genres and OSR is basically a genre then that game wouldn't be /osrg/ relevant. It might be an OSR game in terms of tone, style, structure, ect, but people here would be well within their rights to reject it because just because you can run an OSR game with a system doesn't make it relevant to /osrg/."You're arguing and whining about someone who was agreeing with you and using it as a way to make a point about how Fishfag trying to force AD&D 2e into these threads isn't just unreasonable, it's gauche, using his own examples against him.Here's the part where you argue and whine about me sitting you down like the child you are and explaining to you because pic related is also off topicAs for my last session, we finally managed to force a cult we've been feuding with out of their shrine and onto the streets. Because we wanted the shrine as a base of operations and steal their god/congregation to use as a source of future funding.
>>97349324Fuck; intend to steal their god/congregation.Mea culpa.
>>97349324I simply can't agree with your point no matter how you try to phrase it. If the game uses pbta as a skeleton then it absolutely does not follow any type of mechanical fidelity even if it follows tonally.
>>97349339>it absolutely does not follow any type of mechanical fidelityYou're agreeing with me then. It'd be stylistically following tone and so on, but it'd be off topic for /osrg/ because, to quote the OP;>Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983>mechanical fidelityIt's like a 2 axis alignment chart.>Mechanically OSR <-> Not Mechanically OSR>Stylistically OSR <-> Not Stylistically OSRThe hypothetical PbtOSR game could hit the second, but not the first, much in the same way that some games hit the first, but fall flat at the second because they lack an understanding of the non-mechanics side of things and those games aren't /osrg/ relevant either (which is why we have /NuSR/ these days) - Only games that are both Mechanically and Stylistically OSR are relevant to this thread.Which is why his attempts to wangle AD&D 2e in keep getting him told to fuck off.Keep in mind the context of this entire discussion was "What is Gygaxian gaming", which is a question about OSR style rather than OSR mechanics and a certain faggots attempt to undermine that concept/pretend it doesn't exist and that you can't define it so clearly "anything can be OSR, a urinal can be OSR, so I can piss all over the floor in this thread and no one can stop me, 2e can into thread Nao! U-fucking-wU."Look, before you shoot off a reply from the hip? Go back and read up as far as his posts about GNS theory and beating himself raw over how clever he was twizzling 'In Gygaxian gaming; the setting should be a living, breathing place that could exist regardless of the players and is internally consistent' into 'Clearly this person is mentally ill, because no fictional setting is real, how can things be real if our eyes aren't, huh?' if you want to see what I'm working with here.
>>97349448A pbta can resemble a osr game in tone, but I absolutely draw the line at there being a massive mechanical disconnect and separation, and still consider the game osr in any capacity. I don't believe that there is some type of spectral axis layout that can pilpul a game into being osr if it's "tonally" close enough, regardless of mechanics. Can fudge be osr? Can shadowdark?
>>97349286>five daysIt's been months.
Is there anywhere in Moldvay Basic that explains characters carrying a light source are unable to surprise wandering monsters or is that just something added in OSE?
>>97349697>Is there anywhere in Moldvay Basic that explains characters carrying a light source are unable to surprise wandering monsters or is that just something added in OSE?At the very most, it's neither, because that's in OD&D (Surprise, p. III:9). That being said, given how fastitious Norman was, to his credit, in replicating B/X I doubt he just ported that from OD&D as a personal-preference house rule.
>>97349466ntayrt >A pbta can resemble a osr game in tone, but I absolutely draw the line at there being a massive mechanical disconnect and separationAges ago I took a look at Freebooters on the Frontier and another one called Vagabond iirc. They had a variety of pbta procedures and moves that more or less got the idea across and would let me use tsr material with some modifications but I didn't see the point, they appeared to take longer to make something more procedural rather than adjudicated. Not a thing I would want to do, but likely works. They obviously didn't catch on, the people interested in osr play can do that already with the existing retroclones already and the people interested in the oar-aesthetic can play a ruleslite with a lot less procedure so will aim at those.
>Can shadowdark?are you guys baiting or what
>>97349697Do you even need that to be in the rulebook? It seems to be so self-evident that yeah, it's something you spell out for newbies who are a bit slow, particularly if they come from D&D knockoffs like 2e, 3e, or 5e, but that no reasonable and experienced DM could possibly rule otherwise.
>>97349840>wikipediangmi
>>97349324Not that anon. While the game matters a lot if something is OSR (which 2e is) or not, how the game is played is important too. Dragonlance which came out during 1e is not seen as OSR because of its modules (the setting itself could be used in a OSR game) move very far away from how OSR works.
>>97349697>All non-human monsters have infravision B21+>Sometimes there will be no surprise, due to the situation and the explanation of 2:6 chance being baseline, would imply this 2:6 includes the infravision. The example combat with both parties being surprised is additional context for how this could play out. There were secret doors involved, no explanation of if the party had a light source but seems reasonable to assume. I think ruling out surprise for a majority of encounters is counter to the stated rules for surprise and the example encounter. Making modifiers for the context of the encounter based on situation are necessary.
>>97350018>OSR (which 2e is)Please do not post pure nonsense ITT.
>>97350018>is not seen as OSR because of its modules (the setting itself could be used in a OSR game) move very far away from how OSR works.I've seen it discussed a lot in OSR discussions. The idea there is only one way to play OSR is dumb and taking a generalization well beyond its limits.Next someone will try to tell me Tomb of Horrors isn't OSR because it's railroady as fuck.
>>97350018Context is important. You can use a variety of things to run an osr style game. It appears the majority of 2nd ed use and rulesets move away from this style, doesn't make it impossible, does make it much less frequent. Being able to reasonably contextualize and explain through gameplay and examples is more or less necessary but that is difficult for the 2nd ed enthusiasts who don't have any of that to draw one, just spite at a possibility of an idea of a maybe being excluded from one place on the internet. like this >>97350087They've seen it discussed a lot. But they want to see it discussed here. Even though they have nothing of that sort to discuss. Its just seething.
>>97350054Then shut up>>97350087Tomb of Horrors is no Dragonlance module as you are not forced to follow some novel or die. >>97350114If you removed all that butthurt about 2e being OSR then sure you got my point. It's not just the game but also how you you play as shown by Dragonlance.
>>97350172Fuck off, fishfag.And assuming that it's not fishfag samefagging, which at this point is the most likely hypothesis, also fuck the absolute fucking idiot who's been feeding fishfag for hours instead of just ignoring him or telling him to fuck off.
>>97350087>taking a generalization well beyond its limits.That's quite the euphemism. No, it's lying like a hyperbolic piece of shit.>>97350018I get the feeling a lot of people have never even looked at Dragons of Despair or World of Krynn when they try to say something like "Dragonlance modules are very far away from how OSR works."Some Dragonlance modules are "metaplot heavy", but a good number of them have no more plot than "here's a land to explore hex by hex, you might find a dungeon to crawl through."
>>97349972This is a weird take given the examples of play and rules as stated. Sometimes there will be surprise even though there is a light source or infravision. That's what the roll and the DM adjudicating situations is for.
>>97350228NTAYRT>This is a weird take given the examples of play and rules as stated.Nope. >Sometimes there will be surprise even though there is a light source or infravision.Nope.Picrel is LLB3, page 9
>>97350228>>97350257In fact:>>97350036>There were secret doors involvedThere's your explanation of why there was surprise in that encounter.
>>97350172>Tomb of Horrors is no Dragonlance module as you are not forced to follow some novel or die.That's an exaggeration and one that breaks pretty badly.Dragons of Glory even lets you rewrite the whole Dragonlance history if you want. Don't know why you would go through the process of simulating some cockeyed version of the DL history and I doubt anyone actually played through DoG to do so, but it just goes to show that you can't always use the broadest strokes when talking about a collection of modules.
>>97350286On a different note, interestingly (to me, at least), in Mentzer's Basic monsters do NOT have infravision by default. For instance, Gnomes, Goblins, and Kobolds are explicitly listed as having infravision, but not Hobgoblins, Orcs, Gnolls, Bugbears, Ogres, or Trolls.
>>97350257LBB =/= Basic >>97350286>secret doors involved Could be the case for why surprise was rolled. It would be odd to state a general procedure that is actually an exception to the majority of gameplay so I'm not entirely sure of how to interpret it. I don't frequent the old forums, was there any clarification of this from Gary, Dave or Tom?
>>97350225Dragonlance are linked modules, but most are only about as railroady as other linked modules, ie. they start out and end the same so players have to pick up a specific goal towards the end so it can lead into the next one. The stuff in the middle can be mostly open ended.A lot of Greyhawk linked modules are that way. The giants ones come to mind as being exactly that.
>>97350361>LBB =/= BasicGygax-era books always need to be read in the context of one another, because frankly TSR still hadn't developed the capability to write manuals that were fully self-contained. They continuously made assumptions about what a DM would know, or just plain forgot to explain things.In this case, the rule on infravision is the same in OD&D and B/X, so just because Moldvay forgot to include that bit doesn't mean it isn't meant to apply. >I don't frequent the old forums, was there any clarification of this from Gary, Dave or Tom?Picrel is DMG page 62, showing the same "rule" as OD&D.I don't think this is mentioned in Holmes's book, so chances are Holmes forgot to mention it and Mentzer, who took the Holmes Basic as its base, didn't realise.
>>97350219Sorry that you are not smart enough to have a discussion about the topic on hand but I can't help you with that.>>97350225>>97350296Do you have a link to some people playing Dragonlance modules? I would like to see them in action before changing my mind. Unlike some other anons here I am open to the idea that I may be wrong about something,
>>97350421>>97350421>I don't think this is mentioned in Holmes's book, so chances are Holmes forgot to mention it and Mentzer, who took the Holmes Basic as its base, didn't realise.Meant to say MOLDVAY, who took the Holmes Basic as a base for his book.
>>97350421I see it says >canand see how it can, in some cases, or would be a factor, but remain unconvinced >can means >in all cases It does seem quite likely various editing or lack thereof resulted in a lot of crossed wires between LBB, Mentzer, Moldivay, Gary, etc. or just straight up different rulings that became rules like the differences in infra vision having noted by this anon >>97350349which is also neat.
>>97350551>remain unconvinced>>can>means>>in all casesIt doesn't. As was said above, going through a door, as LBB3 says explicitly but the DMG doesn't bother to, doesn't have the light sources spoil surprise.Not everything needs to be spelled out every single time.
>>97350572Right, so >>97350228>Sometimes there will be surprise even though there is a light source or infravision. That's what the roll and the DM adjudicating situations is for.stands. Thanks for agreeing.
>>97350430Dragonlance is off-topic for this thread. If you want to samefag a conversation with yourself, either make it on-topic or do it elsewhere.
>>97350582When going through a door, because the light can't be seen from the other side. In normal circumstances like chambers and corridors, light sources do spoil surprise. It's not rocket science.
>>97350596Infravision. Sometimes they're going to see through the door, sometimes not, depends on the door.
>>97350637lolwutInfravision doesn't let monsters see through doors. Frankly, if you have trouble with these basic rules it's a bit concerning.
>>97350584If you used your brain and read the reply chain you would see that agree about that when talking about Dragonlance modules which is why I am asking that anon to give some proof that they are at least closer to OSR content than I think. If someone thinks something they should be given a chance to prove it.
>>97350430I tried looking, and all I found was a lot of cringe.Least cringe I found was some guys posting short reviews about playing through all the modules on dragonsfoot.https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=90590Of course, they're biased as fuck though and mostly gushing about them, but nowhere near as bad as some other stuff I saw. I think you have to be a little dumb and cringey as fuck to want to talk about DL for any length of time.My advice is just take a look through the Dragons of Despair PDF yourself. It's got some railroadiness towards the start and end, and it's almost funny how it's done because it's so fucking clumsy (if the players don't go after the big obvious plothook, you're supposed to keep sending enemies at them until they do). It opens up into a proper adventure after that though.
>>97350666Dragonlance is off-topic here. Take this discussion elsewhere.
>>97350675>half the groups stopped playing at Dragons of GlorySounds about right.
>>97350675Thank you. It does not look as bad as I thought. I will give the PDFs look over and see where that takes me. >>97350678>Reading is too hard for me so I just repeat the same stupid shit.
>>973501722e is neither osr nor on-topic, same with pbta
>>97350799Yes, we can tell you are too retarded to understand what is being talked about or OSR.
>>97350349>>97350551I think infravision is only mentioned when it different from the default 60'. Kobolds, Gnomes and Goblins can all see 90'.
>>97350862Ah, it's quite possible that that's what is meant, but then the underlined bit in the left column is worded quite poorly. "Many monsters". Which ones, exactly?
>>97350850Wow, it's been a while since I've seen one of your extraordinarily characteristic posts. It's interesting that when you lose an argument you immediately revert into these cookie-cutter schoolyard insults. You never have any type of cohesive argument or reply, just some pureile one-liner. I expect your response to this to be just the same.
>>97350888Everything that isn't a human or demi-human. No gnomes elves dwarves etc, but goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, basically everything that isn't a normal character. All of them have dark vision 60 unless noted otherwise, and light approaching from the darkness always spoils surprise. Imagine you're sitting in the woods with a flashlight, you will see them from a long ways away. Similarly light sources can be seen from around the corner when they get within light distance, and if close enough light can be detected around two corners. Keep in mind that closed doors are how the party will gain surprise, somebody listens at the door, here's monsters, you kick open the door, and you have your normal chance for surprise.
>>97350850Ive played four sessions in this week alone, one of which I ran. You have no cohesive argument or substantive reply because you are a notorious joke of a brain disabled ESL. 2e is not osr and it is not on topic, just because we say it is. OP has decreed it, and within this land his word is law. I shall be submitting an etching of your likeness to the local constabulary in order to have you tried as a heretic and ultimately submitted to the penis explosion chamber for execution.
The guys trying to argue about infravision are the saddest fucking weenies. I don't even know if it's possible to cure people from being so dickless.>>97347152The added classes are a lot of fun. The elf class may be overpowered though and I'm not even sure if wasn't done on purpose.
>>97350997NTA, but don't ever try to say "we" when you actually mean "I".Every poster can only speak for themselves.And your post makes you sound crazy when people read it for what it actually is, with you thinking you control this thread just because you say so.
>>97350649>has never used IR
>>97351059That's because OP has clearly said what is and isn't off topic, and I am of the number that agree with and adhere to that. That indeed makes at least two of us which is the qualifier for "we". I'm sorry that you just learned English recently enough that this was difficult for you to comprehend, but if you need any more lessons feel free to let me know
>>97350637>>97351083Doesn't matter how your toy goggles worked, we're talking about a magical fantasy land, and for the gayest purpose, and provision is blocked by doors just like normal vision is blocked by doors
>>97351098>its magic so I can be a lazy retard As is your compulsion. Basing rulings contextually, as is intended, through a mixture of the fantastical, the game oriented and life experiences is mine.
>>97351084Let's be real. You changed the OP and people have been complaining about it in literally every thread while you try to say that it's just one guy complaining while "you" speak for "we".If you want people to believe you that you're not OP, you probably shouldn't have started lying about everyone that disagrees with you.
>>97351129What are you even trying to say? He's 100% right, infravision doesn't work through doors, and the reason is because that's what the rules say. Read your DMG, anon.
>>97351136The games that are on and off topic have not changed significantly in about six years. The change last year was merely a clarification, explicitly naming 2e as off topic rather than the previous implicit state, because a certain shitposter had spent the few weeks prior to the change shitting up EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD arguing that 2e is totally within the first decade if you squint hard enough at the words "broadly" and "encourages" in the old OP, and people got fed up with reporting his constant thread-shitting for off-topic only to have nothing happen because apparently jannies weren't sure whether or not he had a point about the OP. Now it's clear enough that even a janny could see it.
>>97351136>You changed the OPYou can have psychotic delusions if you want, but let's not kid ourselves, you can't force other people to engage with your broken reality. Your options are A: just play along with what the op says B: make a new thread where you can discuss 2e and pbta and post fake character sheetsC: continue to cry and demand that other people change their environment to suit your taste
>>97351136>people
>>97351140It's our resident nogames, supposedly he has ran one session for his friends and it took him a whole year to get it off the ground, but he has never once played. (In his mind this makes him a "forever DM")
>>97351140Where does it say this in B/X? That's what the original question was about.
>>97351131If you actually want to participate in an argument, you genuinely should try to post something other than "peepee poopoo".Given that you're only replies are this angry childish grunting, we can just ignore you, because you've never played games, and my four sessions this week is probably more than you've ever played in your entire third world existence.
>>97351224Take your own advice, retard. I had some nice discussion with some other anons while you keep taking a dump in the thread.
>>97351217B/X leaves a lot unspecified, as it was at least partly intended as an intro to AD&D, and it was expected that if you needed clarifications you would find them there.
>>97351131>You say yet joke of a brain disabled ESL fits your asshurt about 2e being on topiclol too many pickles, calm down.
>>97351260>B/X leaves a lot unspecifiedSo >>97351140>100%can't be true. That's it. While B/X can be used with AD&D it is by no means required. You can make that blanket decision for your game if you want, but I think it forecloses on a lot of different contextual aspects to dungeon crawling like door construction and party composition including dragooned humanoids in various forms as well as anything else that comes up.
>>97351286It can, because B/X and AD&D are the same game at heart, they're both restatements of OD&D using different amounts of the supplements. The notion that B/X is separate from AD&D is silly, it's all OD&D in the end. There are small differences, it's true, down to editorial tweaking for balance, or clarity, or simplification for a younger audience in Basic's case, but there are no serious changes to how the game runs.
>>97351028unless elf was changed between basic and ose advanced, I don't think elf is really OP. it's balanced with extremely slow leveling and you are subjected to playing a knife-eared twigger. personally, I wouldn't be caught dead playing elf.
>>97351318Not if you're not using AD&D. You keep trying to say it covers things it does not. Because they are in fact separate games that can be used in conjunction or in parts. The original question was about light and OSE, which is, you may find, not based on AD&D. There are many more than small differences. Encumbrance is optional in B/X. Its not an option I would exclude, but its a notable difference. Not a bad thing, but trying to lump them all together as if you can make a statement like >in 100% of the cases infravision does not go through doors is an impossible statement given all the evidence to the contrary. You can say that's how you run it, or that's how a lot of people run it even, but that's a decision they've made with their homebrew combinations or if they're running AD&D rather than B/X.
>>97351270>lol too many picklesIn your butt next to your brain.
>>97350997>ultimately submitted to the penis explosion chamber for execution.Kek but I think Fishfag's problem is he already had doctors explode his penis for trooning purposes, and now the only way he can blow off his frustration is trolling this thread incessantly. Our job is to prevent him from getting any less frustrated.>>97351059No, he's completely correct, it's we. There literally is only one person who's assmangled that 2e isn't OSR (which is indelibly and permanently true, and always has been), and it's you, no matter how hard you samefag. Anon speaks for this thread and is entirely correct to say "we".>>973511312e is a not an OSR game and is off-topic for this thread. If you wish to discuss that remarkably trash game, take it elsewhere; e.g. by starting another /2eg/.
>>97351136There really ought to be a report type that's "this poster is gravely mentally ill".
>>97350986>Everything that isn't a human or demi-human.In OD&D, sure, but Dwarves and elves do have infravision in Mentzer's Basic (this is what we're discussing based on the reply chain).Perhaps what the rules meant to say is more along the lines of "everything that isn't a man, a halfling, or a normal animal".
>>97350986>>97351422Forgot to say I agree on everything else. Specifically:>Keep in mind that closed doors are how the party will gain surprise, somebody listens at the door, here's monsters, you kick open the door, and you have your normal chance for surprise.Yes, if the PCs kick the door open on their first attempt.
>>97351346If you want to homebrew shit, go for it, but at some point you're not really playing D&D anymore. If you want to ask a question and get a definitive answer, then people here are going to cite AD&D or OD&D for you, if you just want people's shitbrew ideas, or worse, you want them to validate your shitbrew ideas for you, then I'm sorry for your loss.
>>97351499>running B/X as written is now homebrew lol okay anon
>>97351527You're not running it "as written" you're filling in the blanks on how infravision works with your own ideas, because you reject the ideas laid out in AD&D.
>>97351217You got the answer you asked for, either except it graciously, or move on. We aren't here to spoonfeed newfags.
>>97351527>running B/X as writtenWhat several of us have been trying to explain to you is that if you want to play any first decade edition rules are written, you'll quickly run into omissions or contradictions that are best understood or solved by referring other first decade editions to understand what was meant. Many of us know this because we've tried. The sooner you come to terms with this, the better it'll be for you. And for everybody else who tries to explain basic stuff to you.
>>97351253I'm not the one who is responding with nothing but childish pureile insults. Like here: >>97351349It's like having an actual 6 year old trying to act like a tough guy replying to you online. You're doing your best but you don't know how to actually string together insults.
>>97351561There is no >as writtenfor it specifically, so I am indeed using the rules to their capacity and extrapolating based on >sometimes there will be no surprise, due to the situation which necessarily means sometimes there will be surprise due to the situation. Anything else you're up to is weird cope about what rules from other books to include or your own personal preferences. >>97351571Anon, I know. The solution to these ambiguities is actually outlined in the books. You have to make a decision and ruling for yourself
>>97351318All three of those games are very different from each other, how retarded do you have to be? We already know you don't play games, that doesn't mean you have to spout blatantly wrong misinformation about them
>>97351596>oh, AD&D bumped the hit die up one size, that's a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE when monsters have one extra hit point per levelThere are no major changes to gameplay between them, both AD&D and the Basic line are literally OD&D plus different amounts of its supplements, and small revisions. There were no serious changes to the gameplay until 2e, when the game began to be reworked to fit the new school philosophy of epic high fantasy story-based gaming instead of the sword-and-sorcery tomb robber expedition focus of OD&D.
>>97351566Don't be a speg Anon, he asked whether OSE was replicating a rule that was *actually in* the B/X rulebooks or not, and evidently it isn't. The rest of this argument is one big spergout.
>>973516192e is almost identical to 1e, and AD&D doesn't play at all like OD&D or B/X. What the fuck are you smoking.People used AD&D for dungeon crawling all through 2e. 2e actually has some excellent crawls like Night Below.
>>97351662>2e is almost identical to 1eHow many times have you gotten BTFO on this illiterate claim by now? You've been making it for years, and getting slapped down for it. It's weird you haven't given it up yet, since it's not going to fool anybody
>>97351619Use the option to remove encumbrance from 1st ed AD&D, they're no different right?
>>97351650>The rest of this argument is one big spergout.>wheredoyouthinkwearebutseenthroughthedoorwithinfranvision.jpg
>>97351700Nope, the PDF of differences between them has over a hundred changes listed, and it's still not complete, with changes ranging from "trivial thing that makes no difference to the OSR" all the way up to several "fundamental change that breaks or sabotages the OSR gameplay loop" Like the one-two punch of reducing wandering monster chance and frequency, followed by increasing dungeon explore rate by 10x so you'll likely zip through an entire dungeon module (and be ready to buy the next one) before a single wandering monster show up to slow down your consuming of TSR-branded content. It is possible to run OSR with 2e if you fix all the various problematic changes, but by far the easiest way to do that is to toss out the 2e books and use the 1e books instead. In particular you need to ignore pretty much everything the 2e DMG tells you, as it's basically wall-to-wall "Fuck Gary Gygax and his play style, this is how you run D&D now" new school advice.
>>97351662Don't forget the "epic high fantasy story-based gaming" that Gygax (and others) wrote so many adventures for in both OD&D and 1e. He even wrote tie-in Greyhawk adventures for his own novel series about that Gord guy. It's pretty much impossible to claim 2e is where a sudden shift in gameplay occurred, except if you take literally every minor change and pretend they were responsible for a paradigm shift that somehow took place years before it happened. >>97351670It's between 95% and 99% identical, depending on what metric you employ, and the 95% would largely be changes in terminology or clarifications.People compiled a list of changes between the two editions, and the overwhelming majority were laughably minor (and frankly sensible) things like "magic-users" now being called "mages". For a game with tens of thousands of pieces, the list was laughably trivial.Even a "big" one like "More options for XP" didn't originate in 2e, with Gygax giving official options for alternates to gaining gold for XP within a year of OD&D's release and consistently afterwards, because of the near-endless complaints from people about XP for Gold being unintuitive ("why do i only get stronger if I bring the gold back", etc.) and how tying Gold to XP had lots of undesirable complications (like requiring massive gold sinks as players leveled up because the math starts to get wonky). And, to top it all off, 2e even leaves XP for Gold as an option, if it really is that big of a deal to someone to hold onto that particular sacred cow.
>>97351739>by far the easiest way to do that is to toss out the 2e books and use the 1e books insteadCorrect, and worth noting that this is also true of every single other RPG ever made. I can run Tribe 8 as an OSR game too, if I just chuck the books out the window and use the 1e AD&D books instead.
>>97351780Shut up, Fishnigger.
>>97351780Seriously, fuck off and make your own thread. And by your own thread, I don't mean "make your own hostile takeover /osrg/ where the op is filled with seething about this thread" again.
>97351780Fuck off with your alt-history fishfag
>>97351739Thank you. There are many differences between various tsr d&ds, they're largely interchangeable with awareness of the differences but pretending they're not there or are irrelevant is the opposite of how you have cohesive communication like how >>97351788is doing. They're missing the interchangeability part being key to OSR. Things that are more easily interchangeable, aka closer to LBB, B/X, AD&D, are more OSR. Doesn't make a thing bad if its less OSR, but that one can run an OSR style game doesn't make that game more OSR anymore than using their face to pound nails makes them a hammer.
>>97351780>It's between 95% and 99% identical,False. You've often repeated this while trying to eliminate nuance. Differences are important and worth discussing rather than pretending they aren't there because the differences offend your sensibilities. Note that a variety of games have been accepted with discussion if its about how to use them in ways that are clearly related to OSR play? That's the sauce. You have to bring it in, rather than try and change what the people who are interested in the subject like. Try it. It'll work better than being a jackass.
>>97351852>You've often repeated this while trying to eliminate nuance.It's worse than that.He's repeated this a hundred times while not knowing the rules of either B/X, AD&D, or "AD&D" 2e, to the point that1) he's unable to produce character sheets that aren't chock full of errors, and 2) he was claiming that the dogshit core 2e rules for XP, the non-optional ones, are optional.And when Anons pointed out to him that those rules are not optional, he went>all rules are optional in RPGsAs is that is an argument that anybody could take seriously.He doesn't actually care about 2e. He has an autistic fixation that a game he does not and cannot play is considered off-topic in a general dedicated to games he does not and cannot play.
>>97351739You're being very generous towards that pdf. One "trivial thing that makes no difference" is>30. Class titles removed.I'm sure everybody has lost sleep over that just like they did for>39. Magic-users now called mages. Put those on a comprehensive list of changes but don't bulk out the list by hiding those in the middle like they actually mean something.Then you find something like>64. Non-weapon proficiencies added as an optional rule.That should be>NWP were changed from compulsory in 1e to optional in 2e.Wait, wait, no, that's not right because NWP were only compulsory in Oriental Adventures. They were already optional in both Dungeoneer's and Wilderness Survival Guide. It's more list padding as well as being wrong.What's worse is that list contains references to UA. Two years too late. It's off topic. Anyone promoting that pdf in this thread is FOE.
>>97351913Yep. This is the right one. Good post, Anon.
I heard that new labrynth lord edition has come out. How is that compared to the last one and some of the other stuff out right now?How is LotFP? I heard it was good, but I also heard how it is organized out can be all over the place.
>>97351937>Anyone promoting that pdf in this thread is FOE.
>>97351852>False. You've often repeated this while trying to eliminate nuanceYou are trying to make mountains out of molehills, anon. Flagrantly. >Differences are important and worth discussing rather than pretending they aren't there No one is pretending there are no differences. You, however, are claiming the differences are so dramatic that the games do not even belong in the same genre anymore.You've lost sight of just utterly ridiculous you've become.Perhaps a food analogy will help?You are trying to tell me that Pepsi and Coke are not colas. Yes, people can taste a difference, but we're not even talking about Pepsi and Sprite, and you're acting like we're talking about Pepsi and Gasoline.
>>97352166Great, you've written a huge wall of text to handwave away a major change as simply not important to you. It is still important to the thrust of this thread. And it's only one problem out of several, and this is not the "Let's spend hours arguing about 2e" thread, despite continual efforts to make it one so kindly fuck off. And while we're on the subject of advice, 2e is chock full of advice and suggestions that are straight-up wrong for the OSR, which is also why it's off-topic here.
>>97352193What we're trying to tell you is to fuck off, fishfag.
>>97352166I'm sorry, but 2e is off-topic in this thread. Please take your baroque sophisms to some other thread where they're relevant to the thread topic.
>>97352193I tried. You don't actually have anything about 2nd ed to talk about do you? If you were capable of going over how to use Nights Below in a convincing way it would help but you don't have that capacity. All you can do is shit and piss yourself at the possibility of differences being important and worth discussing.
>>97351985>How is that compared to the last one and some of the other stuff out right now?Entirely forgettable and several steps back from the original LL. No reason to use it.>How is LotFP? I heard it was good, but I also heard how it is organized out can be all over the place.Not that good. It has stupid problems with the to-hit rolls, for example.Basically no reason to use either one over B/X = OSE. If you want alternatives to OSE, the first Labyrinth Lord is great, and at least on par with OSE rules wise (not as good presentation wise). Labyrinth Lord Advanced is arguably better than OSE-Advanced. And LL + Mutant Future is an absolute masterpiece.
>>973522742e is off-topic, fishfag. Fuck off and kill yourself.And anybody who engages with fishfag's arguments: Shut the fuck up. We've all had enough. Report and insult him.
>>97351985LotFP is okay if you want a b/x homebrew. Personally don't like it but its skill system is functional enough without being overbearing, the encumbrance is similarly usable. Don't care for the spell list alterations but ymmv. The book itself is fine layout wise. Modules vary in quality from good and interesting to totally unusable garbage before even mixing in differences in taste.
>>97352290Anon, if you continue to do anything other than tell fishfag to fuck off, he's going to seize on some irrelevant part of your post and add a 500-word pile of sophist blather about how stoat mating behaviours in this one issue of Dragon plus some strawman about Gygax combines to mean that 2e is on-topic. For the love of fuck, just ignore the schizo. You can't force reason into the insane, and it's just shitting up the thread. If you're not telling him to fuck off, you're encouraging him. That's how insanity works.
>>97352274Oh, you're actually autistic. The differences between OD&D to AD&D still work well within the threads shared ideas of what can easily be discussed. It gets further away with the differences in 2nd ed. I get you can't tell the difference there so you'll have to just trust on this one and let it go. If you want to have productive discussions, making your thread about 2nd ed and FREE OSRG seemed to work well enough for a bit, although I have no idea why you're back here doing this song and dance again.
>>97352319>Anon, if you continue to do anything other than tell fishfag to fuck off, he's going to seize on some irrelevant part of your post and add a 500-word pile of sophist blather about how stoat mating behaviours in this one issue of Dragon plus some strawman about Gygax combines to mean that 2e is on-topic. For the love of fuck, just ignore the schizo. You can't force reason into the insane, and it's just shitting up the thread. If you're not telling him to fuck off, you're encouraging him. That's how insanity works.We need to make this into a copypasta.
>>97352334Yeah, there you go again. You actually don't get the differences are important to perspectives outside your own. Many of them. You're stuck in single player mode and are falling off into accusations and projection again with stuff like >bad faith
>>97352333STOP FEEDING FISHFAG YOU FUCKING IDIOT
>>97352319>>97352340The worst thing is it's always the same litany>2e is exactly the same as 1e!Then if anybody corrects this bullshit>it's not exactly the same, but there are only minor differences!>there are major differences, but they're not important!>you guys clearly think they're important, but I don't, so therefore I win!Continue until bump limit, then wash rinse and repeat in the next thread.
>>97352348The entire point is low censorship discussion, but he isn't capable of in depth context because he doesn't really have any. He here balks at the idea of even talking about playing a game >>97352334and what it would entail or making a convincing case for his side of an argument with evidence. If there is, that's good, but its curious seeing what happens.
>>97352367Exactly. He's been doing this for literally years: why anyone would bother trying to reason with a bullshit elemental impervious to logic is completely unknowable. It's a classic "fool me 17 or more times shame on me" issue.
>>97352372The entire point is you're shitting up the thread EXACTLY as much as fishfag is, and you should kill yourself too.
>>97352372I'm not going to just talk about a random adventure so you can avoid the points that were laid out against you, and not just because you're desperate to try and distract the issue. Why aren't you talking about Pepsi, huh? I'm gonna ask you about Pepsi, and then when you ask why the hell am I talking about Pepsi all of a sudden, I'll start saying "OH MY GOD HE WON'T TALK ABOUT PEPSI CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS GUY HE PROBABLY DOESN'T EVEN LIKE PEPSI."That's you. That's what you sound like.If you want to talk about Night Below, ask in the next thread, and I'm sure other people would love to educate you on it. It's genuinely a fantastic adventure, though admittedly you'd probably enjoy Book 1 far more than 2+3, since Book 1 is much more open.
>>97352385>why anyone would bother trying to reason with a bullshit elemental impervious to logic is completely unknowableIt's perfectly knowable. This retard who's been feeding fishfag is as stupid and obnoxious as fishfag itself.
I'm becoming convinced that this is just one guy arguing with himself. why keep indulging him if not?
>>97352367Point me to the post that says>2e is exactly the same as 1e!Go on. I haven't seen anyone post that, and I certainly haven't. Methinks you're a liar. Just one of your many shitty behaviors.>you guys clearly think they're important, but I don't, so therefore I win!You are allowed to have your individual opinions. Just don't imagine they extend beyond yourself, and don't try to impose them on everyone else, especially considering how frequently people disagree with you, and how much effort (and shitty behavior) you have to put into trying to dismiss all that dissent. Your sacred cows are far from everyone's.I probably even agree with you on not liking certain rule changes between 1e and 2e. The thing I don't agree with, and what basically almost the entirety of the OSR community disagrees with you on, is that 2e is so different as to belong to an entirely different genre.
>>97350172>Dragonlance module as you are not forced to follow some novel or die.Your analogy is backwards. The novels were written after the modules.The novels also don't slavishly follow the modules. Substantial portions of the modules are barely even mentioned, like the first half of DL6. The second half of DL6 becomes two chapters, about 2% of the novels.>>97350087TOH is railroady as fuck. There is one solution: kill Acererak.There's a trivially branching path way because there's a map with multiple dead ends on the way to his secret chamber, you can solve some problems in different ways like spell or skill or magic item,you can avoid a few traps, but that is only the illusion of choice.>I choose entrance #1Hooray! False entrance! Trap with no save for 5d10 damage!>I choose entrance #2Hooray! False entrance with a non-damaging but nearly impenetrable trap if you're caught! You can escape -- if you have one of four MU spells of 5th, 6th, 7th, or 9th level or an item that can duplicate those spell. The 7th level spell, if he has it as his one memorised 7th level spell, affects only the caster. If you get caught your adventure could be over before even getting into the tomb. The character roster for the module does at least have a MU 14 but only 14 of the 30 recommended options include this MU.When you look at the map it looks like there might be two ways to reach Acererak, but there's only one path. One of those two ways says there's no way to this passage from the south. Maybe your DM would let you subvert that by going north at the pit trap and then wishing yourself or rock to mud 30 feet to the east. Maybe you could even wish yourself into the final chamber then fight your way back out. >isn't OSR because it's railroady Tomb of Horrors is not OSR, but not because it's a railroad. It's not OSR because it predates OSR by about 30 years.
>>97350419>The giants ones come to mind as being exactly that.Are you talking about the G and D series? Steading of the Hill Giant Chief is the only module I can think of at the moment that is part of a series with giant in the titles
>>97333603NEW THREAD>>97353588>>97353588
New not troll thread, forgot the thread title tho. >>97353714>>97353714
>>97353729>forgot the thread title tho.Hang your head in shame, anon
>>97353729Yeah, good OP but considering fishfag's constant hijacks, probably best to make sure the title is there to avoid confusion with whatever bullshit tantrum threads he's going to make.
>>97353729Page 8, maybe it was even page 7, but you knee jerk to a new thread where you can't even get the subject right. Next time take a deep breath. Count to 10. Then leave it for someone who can get it right.Don't even need this new thread crap. I can find it in the catalogue especially if you, well not you, get it right.
Fishfag is now making a pile of clone new threads, all of which omit the word "Gygaxian". I suggest reporting them all for spamming/flooding, since that's what he's doing.
>>97353868>if i falseflag hard enough people will believe it's fishfag!
>>97353876Kill yourself, fishfag
In the last few hours, fishfag created TEN /osrg/ threads, all with modified OPs to troll /osrg/, all omitting "Gygaxian". See here:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/Most of them have been deleted, but one of them is still standing. DO NOT ENGAGE THERE except by telling fishfag to fuck off. WAIT FOR A REAL THREAD TO BE CREATED.
>>97354412>WAIT FOR A REAL THREAD TO BE CREATED.>5 hours ago nah
New thread:>>97355925>>97355925>>97355925
>>97355929Seems legit. Thanks
>>97356080Did my best, Anon!
>>97355929Thanks for a proper new thread!Also, previous thread link for this thread, for continuity:>>97275514
>>97355929I can still post in this thread so you're more than than nine hours premature.
I'm just going to take this final opportunity to post ITT to remark without shitting up the active thread how pleasant it is when Fishfag gets his asshole reamed out. Equally funny each time when his screeching gets obliterated, very beneficial.
>>97359702Second
