Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous Thread>>97468182>Thread Question:Should we add a link to OSR Simulacrum's history of the OSR to the OP text in future, to help newfriends understand the origins of the OSR?
>tqI'm indifferent. I enjoy gaming history, but I'm not too sure how much it would be of interest to newcomers. I'd maybe add it to the newb guide. If I were a newcomer, I think some examples of play would go a long way to get me into the OSR. Maybe a link to some of those.
>>97473611Thank you for a real thread. Previous thread not preemptively deleted:>>97428414>>97428414As for the Simulacrum history, it's solid--well researched, cited--but quite lengthy, and in any case the only person we're having a problem with is literally insane and won't read it anymore than he'll actually ever play an OSR game. Maybe link it into one of the guides with a "if you're really curious, here's some deep reading".
>>97473611>Should we add a link to OSR Simulacrum's history of the OSR to the OP text in future, to help newfriends understand the origins of the OSR?Certainly not. He (you) is the one who runs and rules /osrg/ from his discord samefag cabal and insists in strict brosrian ideology.On a serious note, no amount of additions to the pastebin will kill the fish.
>>97473658It wouldn't kill the fish, no, but it might be helpful to noobs who wonder what is going on here and why we don't use reddit's "OSR can't be defined" definition
>>97473658Fuck off fishfag.
>>97473644Yes, thank you for linking the previous full thread. I was on the fence, but I felt that the abortive thread should be acknowledged; anyone can see it via the archives and there were some valuable posts, including a contribution by Infographic Anon.>but quite lengthyThis is really what concerns me. I'm totally indifferent to the meltoid, because as you say he's insane and will never learn or accept anything; it's not for his sake that I'm asking.
>>97473674In that case, I think anyone asking for a history of the movement can be pointed to it, and anyone who has the usual surface-level knowledge (not their fault) and seems salvageable can be given it.
>>97473673Embarrassing
>>97473642>If I were a newcomer, I think some examples of play would go a long way to get me into the OSR. Maybe a link to some of those.This is an interesting point, Anon. Do you have any suggestions off the top of your head? The play reports I've enjoyed the most are Premier's reports from Melan's first(?) Fomalhaut game over on DF and the Planet Algol session reports, but those are both sort of nonstandard campaigns, so I'm not sure how practical they would be as introductions.
>>97473685That's fair.
Is this orc OSR in aesthetic?
>>97473695The OSR isn't really an aesthetic, but it doesn't resemble orcs as they were depicted in early D&D art if that's what you mean.
>>97473686Yes, you are embarrassing. Your parents probably cringe when they think about you.
>>97473734>fishfag takes his mask offThat didn't take long
>>97473749You're not following the reply chain properly, Anon. That post isn't Fishfag, it's responding to Fishfag.
>>97473687Melan is now posting session recaps on his website, though he posts them on discord first. Either way, they make a good initial step into a sense of what one form of a proper game is.
>>97473644>premeptivly deleted I made one that was a repeat of the proper thread when we were on page 10.
>>97471891>It sounds like Kask is talking about the period 1974–1977.>While Arneson is talking about later years, probably 1979–1980.I think it's the other way around: Arneson's game was not only older, but he's generally known to have been a lot more loosey-goosey (even to the point of, as the classic /osrg/ screencap states, playing favorites), and of course to a great extent out of necessity, since he was inventing the game as he went along. Just consider the well-known fact that in the first, or one of the first at any rate, Blackmoor dungeon expeditions all the PCs started as "flunkies" who died from the first chop received, until one of them (Bill Hoyt?) managed to take a magic sword and was immediately leveled up to Hero, capable of sustaining four chops: here the reader with a knowledge of Chainmail instantly perceives that Arneson simply had yet to create distinctions finer than that between Chainmail's ordinary soldier and Hero. Indeed, the Flunky-Hero-Superhero system seems to have lasted for some time in Blackmoor before more granular levels were devised, c.f. pic related, Dave Megarry's character sheet.In short, I believe that by the time Arneson was using granular levels (1972-1973?) many of the characters were understood to be level 8 or more; moreover he almost certainly gave out more loot than Gygax. (Mornard might have had something to say about this in his various anecdotes; again hard to check.) You can see in your clipping from FFC that Arneson observes about Svenson that he consistently refused to take risks and was thus "only" level 15 by 1977.As for how faithful Arneson was to OD&D, I should say not more than he felt like. It's reported that Arneson's players were happy with the publication of OD&D because "now we can finally see what the rules are", but we also know that Arneson resented Gygax not incorporating various of his rules into the published book. I don't think Arneson felt any obligation to adhere to the printed rules.
>>97473783No, it's you who's not following. Read it again. >>97473658 made a joke at fishfag's expense, and >>97473673 accused him of being fishfag, which I assumed was because he didn't read the whole post. Except he immediately went for the one-liner "doodoo-head" type retort that characterizes fishfag's posts. Now shut up and talk about games, faggot.
>>97473797(Reposted from the miskilled thread so Anon doesn't miss it, losing effortposts sucks)
>>97473611Yet another compromised general trying to turn /osrg/ into a private chatroom of 2-3 dudes wanking off, and screaming whenever someone questions it.
>>97473806Fuck off fishfag.
Alright, let's discuss some actual gaming topics: can someone explain to me how to use Melan's Nocturnal Table well when refereeing city adventures? Or just, how would you do it?It seems strange to me to just roll an encounter when they say they go from A to B at night but maybe this is just a me issue?
>>97473930I've been trying to get a city campaign off the ground and have been wondering the same thing. For me the issue is tying it into some kind of structure. The party is in the city either to recuperate from an adventure, or to adventure in the city (catacombs underneath). Sometimes they hang out to shop or otherwise do business in the city, but for the most part, the opportunity to say "you're wandering around when suddenly..." seems pretty rare.It kind of feels like trying to run a hexcrawl alongside a megadungeon: they're innately working at cross-purposes. I'd be very interested in hearing how other anons do city gaming as more than random asides.
>>97473949Yeah, you get me, I think we definitely have the same type of disconnect or inexperience or tardbrain, whatever it is.>It kind of feels like trying to run a hexcrawl alongside a megadungeonLost me here though, this one makes sense to me. Things in the megadungeon should push the players out into the wilderness (and occasionally vice versa). You could think of the hexcrawl map as a sort of hugeous dungeon level if that helps.
>>97473971>Lost me here though, this one makes sense to me.I don't want to do the classic "lose the main topic exploring the analogy" bit. I just mean that a megadungeon is about intensely exploring one place and even if you're going back and forth to it, you're not really exploring the land, whereas a hexcrawl is about seeing the wider world instead of just one place, but if you're doing that, you're not in the megadungeon.It's the same sense I have when I compare the city with adventuring. Two things that tend to only briefly intersect, at least in my current experience, one taking you away from the other.
>>97474037>I don't want to do the classic "lose the main topic exploring the analogy" bit.Yeah, fair enough.>It's the same sense I have when I compare the city with adventuring. Two things that tend to only briefly intersect, at least in my current experience, one taking you away from the other.Okay, yes, now I understand the analogy, in any case. And you're right that the key thing is >I'd be very interested in hearing how other anons do city gaming as more than random asideswhich I totally agree with you on.
>>97473930I used it for a Yoon-suin game and adjusted it as needed. Basically rolling if the players were about town and doing things, 1:6 per hourish adjusted by how rowdy or conspicuous they were being. It worked okay, but largely because I had already made a Yoon-Suin and factions so it was easy to convert. I found it lacked motivations even then sometimes so used the needs table/reaction roll. That being said I found it faster to use than the Scarlet Heroes urban encounters but ymmv.
>>97473949I started them in the city and used a building, basement and sewer as the opening dungeon. Having a working city build for factions and what they're up to helps. Including several of those in the starting dungeon got everyone entangled enough the players started coming up with their own ideas. Adding the need to pay for and have some sort of safe house worked as well. I liked the Scarlet Heroes Heat score mechanic. Essentially starting at 0 or 1, add 1 to it and roll 1D10 every adventure or event in which the party does something potentially notable. If you roll equal or under one of the local factions takes notice of the player's exploits and you make up the details accordingly. >party comes back with large haul and rips it up again >fails heat roll that week >Bureau of Meritorious Acquisitions aka organized crime in the quarter gets wind of the party and wants a cut >confrontation in the tea house, swordfight in the courtyard, party wins, BMA leader flees promising vengeance, party gains a surrendered goon and decides to leave town for a bit until things calm down it more or less writes itself. I tried using Vornhime's dice drop city streets maker for a few encounters but didn't find it worked very well. Created a mix of seemingly generic but recognizable streets in a way I didn't like. Basically, put the dungeon in the city. Make the city a living place. Player actions cause reactions cause player actions cause reactions etc. Some anons may have insight into CISO, that level of detail doesn't do it for me but some people like it.
>>97474138Fuck, good art.So you were rolling ont he Nocturnal Table roughly three times per game day as long as the PCs were in town? Am I understanding that correctly?>>97474208>Bureau of Meritorious AcquisitionsKek, that's a good one. I'm going to have to steal your gang name for use in my own game, Anon.
>>97474239I tended to roll when they were out doing things specifically like buying supplies or selling treasure or going to a temple for removing curses, stuff like that rather than just existing. Usually ended up being less than 6 chances of encounter but more than 2. The encounter if rolled would get reaction. Not many ended up being hostile, more often than not just colour or things I tied into rumours so it felt like the city was doing stuff and I had stats on hand if I needed them. I don't remember where I got that picture from, maybe something to do with the old fighting fantasy books but its not a clear memory.
>>97474310Right, I see. Interesting way to use it.
>>97473644It doesn't even stand up to a casual glance, let alone basic research. It's actually kind of humorous how you cling to your single source, and a blog no less, and try to ignore all the countless other sources that contradict you.The amount of effort you do to try and build up an echo-chamber ecosystem is pretty amazing, including your laughable "n00b guides", all in hopes that anyone new to OSR will somehow only trust what you tell them and will also somehow bounce around in your echo chamber and avoid finding out that the majority of the OSR community disagrees with you until somehow it'll be too late and they'll be indoctrinated in your cult.You try so hard, for such a stupid plan.And it all falls apart the minute they step outside the chamber you're so desperate to try and build and maintain, if they ever stepped into your trap to begin with.
>97474345Hi fishfag. Thanks for your wonderful piece of fiction, but I'm afraid this is the OSR thread. For fake storytime you want:>>>/qst/catalog
>>97474345It's funny how obvious it is that you're a rectum ravaged redditor. Literally everyone agrees about the limits of the OSR, the only place that applies your 2e-inclusive definition is the plebbit. You'd never be this buttflustered if you got your idea of the OSR from anywhere else. Nobody who didn't think for some ludicrous reason that r/OSR is the arbiter of the old-school ever would.
Who is Melan and where do I find his stuff?
>>97474395The thing about you and your myth is that you imagine that you can repeat it enough and people might start to believe you. Probably how you got duped yourself, and you're one of those useful idiots who's too proud to admit he's been wrong and will die on the hill of being wrong.I don't even know if you actually believe all the lies you spread, or if you just find the lies convenient. I know you don't believe in your fishfag lie or that there's only one person who disagrees with what you've tried to do to this general, so I'm very much inclined to believe even you don't believe that the OSR began as a response to 2e but just slept on being a reaction to that for over a decade.
>>97474418His website is Beyond Fomalhaut:https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/
>>97474345>>97474395>majority of the OSR community disagreesI really love how this series of threads has such unity in opinion all the time. And on 4chan of all places!
>>97474427Thank you kindly
>>97474454It's not surprising. Dealing with this 2efag asshole for years has hardened people's opinions against him.
>>97474345>>97474419lol someone's troll thread got deleted.
>>97474502I'm making fun of you too
>>97474502We already established that you just find your lie convenient and you don't actually believe it, so you can drop the act.
>>97474527>>97474526>get caught >DARVO every time with you.
>>97473797What's up with those stats? 2d6. Any actual effect or just the Big D eyeballing and it adding flavour to the narration?
>>97474395Said the retard while people in this thread disagree with him on what is OSR. Give us your definition of OSR and watch people say that is wrong.
>>97474590>watch me samefag Only because you refuse to use a trip.
>>97474585>1st bandit chief only has 5 sex >pretty good at sword tho
>>97474598NTA, but you really need to stop saying lies even you don't believe just because you're entire stated worldview is built on them.If you need to demand everyone believe such an obvious lie like there being only one person who disagrees with you in order for you to continue with your grand echo-chamber plan, you're just going to keep escalating a conflict between what's essentially you on one side, reality on the other. And, reality has a way of always winning in the end.
>>97474607>14 on swordFug. Guess it's not 2d6 then.
Anon posted the attached here a while ago.Does anyone have it at a higher resolution or a link?
>>97474585Arneson used such a system in his Napoleonic campaign before Blackmoor, and to all appearances just ported it over. I'm unsure whether the factors are 2d6 or 3d6, actually.
Reminder not to engage with Fishfag here in the real general, just tell him to fuck off and report his posts. Baiting him is fine for his troll threads, but here it just shits things up.
>>97474932As per the previous thread: No, but I'm not sure how valuable it would be anyway since one can already spot errors for ants.
>>97474620>nta but I copied their post exactly You really need to stop being retarded.
>>97474647It could still be; keep in mind that it's a matter of controversy whether these rules of Arneson's used Chainmail combat as a resolution method. (Favoring that idea is the fact that the weapons are the same, and listen in the same order, as on the MTM table, even copying the typo "Halbard"; against it is the apparently incoherent values, which don't seem to have any relevance to the 2d6-roll-under with target determined by armor type of Man-to-Man Combat.) It's possible that the values work as modifiers of some description to the base MTM roll, or indeed that lower values in the weapons are better (note how the Hero David Balfron(?) has lower weapon scores almost across the board than the First Bandit Chief). For instance, if we read the scores as simply being the target numbers for the first column of the MTM table, an attack against an unarmored foe, we see that the Bandit Chief is considerably worse at using daggers, swords, polearms, two-handed swords and pikes than Chainmail's ordinary soldier, but average or only slightly worse at the other weapons, and indeed better with a spear or mounted lance, whereas Balfron is bad at using daggers and hand axes but has a notable advantage with most other weapons. Is this the correct reading? I have no idea, but it's a possible one.
>>97474647Wasn't sure what the effort posting that got deleted was about. It looks like a skills sort of sheet more than stats. There's a few that are more like attributes like >Brains >Courage >Heath, not quite Heart but other stuff like >Sailing so I'm not sure what's going on there.
>>97476158>Heath, not quite HeartIt says Health, bro. Unknown whether that's to be read as hit points or more like Constitution, though, disease resistance and so on.>not sure what's going on thereAs noted, nobody's sure. People only have theories. But it can be observed that at this stage of the development of Blackmoor there were no abilities as such, and no distinction between say Brains and Woodcraft.
>>97474395Damn, this one really worked on him, huh. Three samefagged replies! Wonder what did it.
>>97473695The orc is portrayed as a savage monster, which is good, but the composition of nothing interesting happening and the central figure just posing his badassery fizeek and oversized weapon, is nu-school. Hopefully the orc isn't the protagonist.
>>97473695Please stop posting, Puckee.
>>97476377>zoomers don't know about the brain, courage, heart
>>97478114Sorry, no, I only know about power, wisdom and courage.
>>97473695Just looks like a Warcraft orc t bh
>>97473695no, he's missing his sombrero
The new OSRIC edition is genuinely a massive improvement over AD&D and I'm tired of pretending it's not. Rules and procedures are explained in a clear and concise manner, and succeeds at reducing a lot of the ambiguity and conflict between the PHB and the DMG.I can't think of a single reason for having players read the PHB when OSRIC is available and does such a better work at explaining the game. If you are a newbie DM and are interested in AD&D then read OSRIC first and then jump to proper AD&D. I bet you'll find the famed High Gygaxian is no longer so hard to parse.
>>97480470I wish it bolded the text which was Finch's personal additions, so we can see what he changed and what we have to go back to the AD&D text for.
>>97480470False comparison.1. OSRIC is better explained.Finch explains OSRIC better than Gygax explains AD&D, but that's a very low bar: Every modern RPG has rules that are clearer than AD&D.2. OSRIC is not AD&D (and S&W is not OD&D)What Finch doesn't do is explain AD&D better than Gygax did, because OSRIC is not AD&D, but Finch's personal shitbrew that he's trying to promote as AD&D, like he did with S&W, which he tried to promote as OD&D, which it isn't.>B-but I prefer OSRIC!Good for you, as long as you don't pretend that OSRIC is AD&D. Because it isn't.
>>97480588Having clarified this.>>97480470>The new OSRIC edition is genuinely a massive improvement over AD&D and I'm tired of pretending it's not. That's your personal taste. Nobody asks you to pretend that you like chocolate ice cream more than you like vanilla, and frankly nobody cares.>I can't think of a single reason for having players read the PHB when OSRIC is availableI can give you one: Wanting to play AD&D rather than Finch's shitbrew.>If you are a newbie DM and are interested in AD&D then read OSRIC first and then jump to proper AD&D.Right, and if you want to learn chess, start by learning monopoly first.
>>97480530>I wish it bolded the text which was Finch's personal additions1. It would go against Finch's personal ethos of passing his own shitbrew for O/AD&D for clout.2. So much of the book would be boldfaced that it would be extremely annoying.
>>97480588>>97480597>OSRIC is not AD&D, but Finch's personal shitbrew that he's trying to promote as AD&D, like he did with S&W, which he tried to promote as OD&D, which it isn'tCouldn't care less.>Good for you, as long as you don't pretend that OSRIC is AD&D.Who does? Oh right, Finch. I'm sorry I'm talking about OSRIC not about what you imagine some boomer might or might not do.> if you want to learn chess, start by learning monopoly first.You could have made a half decent argument claiming that recommending OSRIC to newbies before jumping to AD&D is like teaching people to play a version of chess without castling or promotion before learning the rest of the game. But that argument would've made sense.
>>97481210>I'm sorry I'm talking about OSRIC not about what you imagine some boomer might or might not do.No, you were talking about OSRIC and AD&D and making silly comparisons about them as if they were some kind of deep wisdom.Also, using "boomer" as an insult is cringe for mentally challenged millennials and zoomers, useless losers with respect to people of the calibre of Gygax and Arneson. Shut the fuck up until your generation has produced something of value.
>>97473611What's your favorite source for names? Most of the ones I've come across feel very random and contains about 50/50 reasonable and incomprehensible entries. Preferably in the form of a list and not a random generator, since this is for my in person table.
>>97481411>source for namesThat's going to depend on the setting. E.g. any list of historical Greek or Roman names is perfectly adequate for a classical setting.If your setting is more like medieval England, the ones in Wormskin #7 are perfectly adequate. The human, cleric, magic-user, fighter, and thief ones at least; the demi-human ones are cringe. But again, any historical list of names works greathttps://www.s-gabriel.org/names/aelfwyn/bede.htmlhttps://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/english/14thcyorkshire.pdfhttps://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/eng13/>>97481210>>Good for you, as long as you don't pretend that OSRIC is AD&D.>Who does? Oh right, Finch.(You) are the one who said that OSRIC is a "massive improvement" over AD&D for the only reason that it's clearer. So I stand by my point: You don't understand the differences between OSRIC and AD&D. You can easily correct the record by making a case that Finch's rule changes are an improvement over AD&D, and why.
>>97481372okay boomer
>>97481472Not a boomer but appreciate the compliment. You can go back to plebbit now.
>>97481411Just consult the scriptures, my good fellow
>>97475478They were 2d6 to start, and switched to 3d6 sometime in Gary’s playtesting - there’s an old character sheet that shows old and new values with Gary’s first five attribute system
>>97479872He threw it at a dwarf like he a green Oddjob.
>>97473695Eat shit and die puckee. For anyone who doesn't know, this image is reposted by a redditor who is obsessed with spamming his art commissions on /tg/. You can follow the threads by either reverse image searching network, or searching the archive for the same image being posted
Wilderness travel and encounters take 50-80 % of game time. Last night we reached the dungeon door in 6 hours of playing at which time we had to stop. No loot, no real exploration, not fun.Random encounters in hexcrawl simulate the living world. We don't have time to explore dungeons in West Marches style because Wilderness hexploration takes too much damn time. What do
>>97481615Interesting – you wouldn't happen to have the sheet or a link, would you?>>97481948Huh, I really didn't know that, thanks. I only really know about our own resident humongous faggot.
>>97482000>What doIt depends – if this is just a general complaint, you could try starting with using the OD&D wilderness movement system – it's much smoother than most options, as detailed in>https://rancourt.substack.com/p/a-survey-of-overland-travelIf you're running an actual West Marches game, your mistake was using hexcrawling at all – you're not meant to, and it directly clashes with the WM play style, and you're now discovering to your detriment. WM wilderness movement is meant to be abstract and region-based, so you get to your objective reasonably fast and can return with equal or greater celerity.
>>97482000West Marches is a 3e thing, we just call it playing (first decade / Gygaxian) D&D here.What rules are you using for wilderness encounter checks? B/X? DMG? ACKS? What tables for wilderness monsters? How far away is the dungeon? What level is the party? What causes the wilderness encounters to take so much time?
>>97482041>the OD&D wilderness movement system – it's much smoother than most optionsIsn't it pretty much the same as the B/X one? Only very minor diffs like terrain costs being >×1 / ×2 / ×3 instead of >×1.0 / ×1.5 / ×2.0 as far as I remember.
>>97482000>>97482041Seconding anon here. If I remember correctly the original West Marches was a pointcrawl so it's safe to assume most overland travel was handwaved away. Don't be afraid to get rid of the hexcrawl if it's not working for your group, plenty of megadungeon campaigns treat everything outside the dungeon as an abstraction. Nothing wrong with that.
>>97482000That seems like an excessive amount of encounters even for a hexcrawl
>>97482234>Isn't it pretty much the same as the B/X one?Read the post, he'll explain the difference as clearly as possible. You can just click through to OSE and OD&D.>>97482236>If I remember correctly the original West Marches was a pointcrawl so it's safe to assume most overland travel was handwaved away.You do remember correctly, he had a map with regions with separate encounter tables, and I'm not sure if he even bothered to roll for encounters in every region the PCs traveled through. At any rate it was all very high-level and abstract because Robbins was perfectly aware of the need to get the PCs to the dungeon fast (and hexcrawls hadn't been in fashion for decades at the time – as Anon says, it was a 3e game).
>>97482332>>97482234use this instead, 3 mile hexes, adjust all values by scale if you alter the hex size :)
>>97482383>time-based travelNo.
>>97482383Ugh
>>97482401>time-based dayYes?>>97482410Whats the issue here?This lets you know how much traveling youre actually doing when moving through multiple hex types.Other wise, every time you change hex types, you have to pro-rate remaining speed and modify it based on terrain type.With this chart, the math is the exact same as modified speed, but inverted so that you merely have to add up how many hexes youve moved through. Ex, at speed 90/30 you can cross 6 plains hexes per day, or 9 if you force march.Ex2, you start traveling at 120/40 an need to cross a plains, hill, and swamp hex to get back to plains. The hill hex has a road. This takes a little over four hours, leaving 3 more plains hexes that can be traveled.Using this has saved me *a lot* of time and trouble when hexcrawling.
>>97481372>>97481483Jesus christ I wasn't expecting someone to actually try and enter the Cringiest Posts of All Time contest, but fucking hell this guy is really gunning for the top prize.
>>97482451>Whats>youre>Other wise>youve>Has trouble with the four basic operations.>Needlessly complicated table that would be a pain in the ass to actually use at the table.>Claims he totally plays.Sounds oddly familiar.
Lol youre cooked if you think im fishfag. >Needlessly complicated table that would be a pain in the ass to actually use at the tableIt is significantly faster and easier than adjusting and pro-rating movement speed for every new hex type entered.I used this chart every week for 9 months of running X1, and it was much much easier.And yeah, I played last night, the party sailed to Kemet in pursuit of our stolen bag of holding. We ended up fighting a blue dragon, his rakshasa handlers, djinni sidekick, and their slaves, all disguised as a mining camp. The fight was pretty close, with the bard charging ahead boldly and being instantly shredded by 5 rakshasa (he got better).Fun session overall, my fighter hench levelled up, and my elf is approaching 9th level soon
>>97482553 was obviously meant for >>97482514, id never deny a man his (You)
>>97482553smells fishy
>>97482614Pretty pathetic dismissal. Don't you have anything better to do than shitting on me for sharing something useful I made for myself?Id love to hear about your last session though while were here. After dealing with the runaway apprentice at the slave camp we're heading to the tower of the geomancer, a powerful wizard in a tower that placed a nondetection spell on the thief were trailing. We were warned he can disintegrate, and we're all a tad nervous. Last time we faced that spell, poor Pardue got zapped into ashes and refuses to get ressurected again after that
>>97482383WTF is this shit? Hourly rate @40,30,20,10? What? Which of those do I use if my party has a combined move rate of 90'? And why does @40 equal the slowest rate and @10 equal the fastest?
>>97482780>Hourly rate @40,30,20,10?That would be 120/40, 90/30, 60/20, 30/10 condensed down for space. >Which of those do I use if my party has a combined move rate of 90'the second column, 30'>why does @40 equal the slowest rateit doesnt, 40' is the fastest, and thus crossing a given hex at 40 is the fastest speed (for the table, unless you move at 150/50 or more).In normal conditions, at 120/40' you cross a 3mi plains hex in one hour. At 90/30' it takes 1 1/3 hour.
>>97482802Feels ass backwards, my man, but you do you I guess
Why is speed in OSR, and also dungeon space units ("tiles" if you will) always in units of 10 feet?Wouldn't 5 feet make more sense, allowing more granularity for corridors and time everything about "paces" like an old fashioned roman Passus?
>>97482836It feels more backwards to constantly adjust movement speed when travelling. Humor me and tell me how you'd work the following?The party want to travel in straight line, 8 hexes, 24 miles. They will cross through: plains, hills, mountain w/ road, snowy mountain, mountain w/ road, hills, swamp, plains, plains, plains. They move at 120/40, but become encumbered and move at 90/30 after the first snowy mountain hex.They force march after the snowy mountain hex. How long exactly does this take them?for me its:>40' means use first column>check hourly cost of hexes, in order>1, 1.5, 1.3, 4>after these four hexes, theyve travelled for 7.8 hours, no more time left in the day for another hex>check rates of next hexes at new speed (90/30)>1.6, 2, 2.66, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3>this equals ~10 hours, they make it on the second day by forced marching
>>97482879just wait til u find out 10 is divisible by 5 lmao
>>97483057Yes, I can indeed convert in smaller tile a map with 10 feet squares no problem.However, the game itself has no granularity in that regard. Burdened adventurers and slower monsters drop their speed compared to their counterparts in multiples of 10, not of 5.
>>97482879>Why is speed in OSR, and also dungeon space units ("tiles" if you will) always in units of 10 feet?Because dungeon maps are drawn to 10 feet per square scale.>Wouldn't 5 feet make more senseIf you're a WotC fag, perhaps. In real D&D, 5' per square Is never used. It's either 10 feet/sq, 3.33 feet/sq, or 10 yd/sq. And 5' would be a huge pain in the ass to use because a human-sized combatant takes up 3.33' in a fight, which really doesn't go well with 5'.
>>97482021I thought it was on Boggswood but all I can find is Arneson 2d6 sheets
>>97483076>muh granularitywhy 5' and not 4', 3', 2', or 1', then, WotCfag?
>>97483057>>97483093>>97483108Are you guys able to give an answer without having a kneejerk reaction? You approach this as a cult/religion instead of something to calmly discuss.Also this in specific>Because dungeon maps are drawn to 10 feet per square scale.It's a circular argument.BX is full of instances in which 5ft is convenient to visualize, too like missile combat being more than 5ft away or silence being 15' radius.
>>97483093>a human-sized combatant takes up 3.33' in a fight, which really doesn't go well with 5'.Not really because it would give some space instead of everything looking like canned sardines.
>>97483108>why 5' and not 4', 3', 2', or 1', then, WotCfag?I already explained above. Closer to 10', and close to a roman Passus - which would be something people in-universe would use.Can you read, my fragile friend?
Is it "Janky Houserules Day" or something today?
>>97483258No, it's rather "cultists don't know and are therefore unable to understand why a certain rule exists and are unable to show why a given alternative would be better or worse" day.
>>97483258Looks like it's "he gave up on his fake general/it finally got deleted" day tb h
>>97483183>unable to understand why a certain rule exists and are unable to show why a given alternative would be better or worseThe burden is on you to provide a good reason for the 5' scale, and you weren't able to provide any except for plebbit-tier "granularity" brain dead crap.
>>97483183mine was more of a comment, really
>>97483559>The burden is on youYou are a coward on top of being functionally illiterate, since I already gave you examples and granularity IS a feature unless something counter-balance it. I mean it also helps better describing certain dungeon feature.On top of that >BX is full of instances in which 5ft is convenient to visualize, too like missile combat being more than 5ft away or silence being 15' radius.My conclusions is that1) none of you have the slightest idea of what they are talking about, and should never be listened to - the whole general is useless2) going 5' is probably a good idea just for the fact that doing the opposite of what you imbeciles suggest is probably a good idea
>>97483694>being more than 5ft away You're either in melee range or not. >or silence being 15' radius.That's a 30' diameter, dummy. You don't actually play osr you're just a dipshit tourist
>>97483694My conclusions is that1) you're a nogames newfag 2) kill yourself
>>97483559>weren't able to provide any except for plebbit-tier "granularity" brain dead crap.>>97483694>B-but muh granularity!plebbit-tier amateur game designer confirmed
Minis are not OSR.
>>97484058Incorrect
>>97484072Minicucks are the reason why we get people like this >>97482879
>>97483694>reeeeee you are all imbeciles, the general is uselessSeethe harder, Fishfag.
>>97484058>>97484079Nah, minis are fine and cause no problem. The rules on using them in the DMG are clear and effective.
>>97484079Never had this issue
>>97482941>>97482383Yeah, actually, this makes sense. Probably would have helped a lot years ago but I'm autistically married to calculating movement speed as mile points per day in my head.Neat cheat-sheet though, one benefit I can see is having the time and distance both easily calculable!
>>97482383>fishfuck can't into space and time being separate but linked concepts lmao every time
>>97485046Not sure where this hostility or assumption that I'm fishfag is coming from, but you seem pretty torqued.Of course space and time and intrinsically entangled, and I use this table I made for tracking that relationship in the form of how long each modified type of distance takes to traverse, based on environmental conditions, and I did it by inverting the math and tracking hours instead of miles.As I explained above, it makes switching terrain types/speeds on the fly much easier and faster. Using it, I longer had to constantly modify miles remaining in the day when traveling, it's as shrimple as adding up to eight, and I can do a days travel in a few seconds. If you can add mixed number fractions (that are in thirds only), its a lot easier, imo.
>>97485157Last session the fighter lord managed to bait the rakshasa lord into using a spell on him.Kitty cast color spray, and the fighters ring of spell turning proc'd, blasting him instead! (He should have been immune but I think DM forgot)
>>97485046Fishfag doesn't play games. This is a different retard.
>>97485157Fishfag is just what that guy calls everyone he disagrees with. Given time, he will eventually call everyone on this board fishfag several times. I'm betting that if you copy-pasted some of his own posts, he'd even eventually call himself fishfag.
>>97485198How exactly does using a time based tracker for travel make me retarded? Do you have anything to contribute to the thread? You seem irrationally irritated by me posting a resource tool that I found useful when running nine months of weekly hexcrawl sessions for my group.
>>97485223dont feed the troll. honestly ignore the thread he put up. its just offtopic posting with no real discussion here.
Reminder that the fishfag likes to pretend he's a mean old grog who shits on everything, drives newbies out of the thread, and then calls everyone else fishfag, because he's a gaslighting prick.
>>97485354Actually im the one who posted the travel chart, and I also enjoy shitting on newbies.
>>97485374lol, yeah, sometimes it's deserved, but other times it's just an attempt to drive people to his version of /osrg/ because he's a godawful faggot
>>97485223>How exactly does using a time based tracker for travel make me retarded?Honestly it doesn't. It's just a bit silly. If it works for you keep doing it but to most (myself included) you do seem to be overcomplicating something that could be simple.
>>97485424Maybe im overthinking it then, but how would you address: >>97482941 ?If im dumb and someone else's process can make it easier than what im doing above, ill gladly eat my hat.
>>97485385truke desu, but it looks like weve been doing the same to him lol
>>97485157NAYRT but this is absolutely not simpler than just counting hexes as per OD&D.
>>97485485By ODD maybe, since it is pretty standardized. But in relation to BX, or 1e, it's much easier for me to count the points per hex instead of modifying speed and pro-rating miles travelled.
>>974855391e is really just the OD&D system decomposed for reconstruction by the referee at arbitrary scales, as Delta pointed out in a blog post. You're not actually meant to go by measuring miles, you're supposed to convert the daily travel speeds to hexes per day as in OD&D.
>>97485157The hostility comes from you being a jackass. Its not complicated. >have bad idea loudly >get told its a bad idea >get pissy about it don't got well. You do this a lot. Probably not just here.
>>97486403NTA, but why are you acting like you're the one in control and you decide what reality is, despite reality not matching your narrative?
>>97484200>>97484079>>97483787>>97483744The only one seething here is you, unable to articulate why a given rule is used.BTW - never used miniatures in my life. I did use comples dungeon structures tho, which led to consider 10' akward.
>>97486844Why would they need to articulate that? "It's in the rules" is reason enough to use a rule, absent any good reason not to. People here are suspicious of claims to fix things, we get tired of guys barging in to tell us "hi guy! having read some of the books one time, I now declare that this game sucks, and here's my terrible, probably untested houserules to fix everything!" all the time. Maybe if you could explain this "awkwardness" a little more clearly and with less of the hostility you displayed earlier, people would be more inclined to listen.
>>97485432I have no idea what you mean by "constantly adjust travel speeds". In B/X, you have miles per day (typically 18 if on foot) and number of miles that each hex costs. At the six miles scale:>If off roadA hex costs 6 miles, 9 miles, or 12 miles depending on the terrain>If on a roadA hex costs 4 miles, 6 miles, or 8 miles depending on the terrain. That's it. You never "adjust travel speeds", you just pay costs per hex.
>>97485432>>97487184Addenda:1. Notice that the costs per hex are independent of the speed the party travels at. If they're on unencumbered light horses, they get 48 miles per day and the costs are the same.2. FWIW, I think the B/X costs are too lenient for rugged terrain, so I use different costs (×1/×2/×3 instead of ×1/×1.5/×2):>If off roadA hex costs 6 miles, 12 miles, or 18 miles depending on the terrain>If on a roadA hex costs 4 miles, 8 miles, or 12 miles depending on the terrain.
>>97486844You don't play games and we are not going to spoon feed you. Nobody actually gives a fuck about answering your question
Other than the obvious actual Conan stuff, what are some good modules and resources for a Howardian campaign?
>>97488267Howardian campaigns are not OSR. Your question belongs in the fake general
>>97488340Piss off, fishfag
>>97488345Was Gygax running Conan-campaigns? Was Gygax running sword and sorcery? No. Inspiration from that setting does not mean its now OSR.
>>97486509nou
>>97488267>good modules and resources I like Scarlet Heroes, its got a solid base for more action pulp sword & sorcery gameplay if you have a small player base and they don't want to run a party. Leans more into the orientalism side but works well enough with any setting. I'm mixed on the Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea stuff. The modules I've skimmed haven't impressed me much but there's a lot. A few anons here have mentioned they run it and been positive about the game itself. Purple Worm Graveyard was an interesting intro module I ran that was advertised as sword & sorcery vibes, it sort of was, there were tits I suppose. What do you mean more specifically by Howardian?
>>97488358DMG page 90. Kill yourself, fishfag.>>97488267ASSH and ACKS. ACKS, in particular, is named after Conan's own story arc, but you might want to put in some work to customise it for your own setting by making custom classes.
>>97488383>What do you mean more specifically by Howardian?That's a whole keg of worms but I suppose in practical terms what I'm looking for mainly is human focus and no casual overuse of magic. Something that keeps monsters and NPC magic users as rare, horrific and dangerous, as major threats that form the focus of the adventure not 2d4 goblins wandering around.
>>97488598I missed the part in Conan where he spends hours staring at spreadsheets and tables to determine trade routes and taxes while he watched his soldiers and generals die from old age since war was such an unreasonably tedious process.
>>97488619KYS yourself, fishfag
>>97488605>no casual overuse of magicWhat qualifies as "casual overuse" for YOU? That's going to be extremely subjective.>>97488619Kill yourself, fishfag.
>>97488598Inspiration =/= OSR. Is this a general about Gygaxian D&D or is this whatever we want it to be? May as well let in the unwashed 2E plebs while we're at it
>>97488358You deserve to be raped in the public square.That's all.Fuck you
>>97488619That would probably be because you are a retard who has never actually played D&D ever, fishfag
>>97488667>Sword and sandals is now somehow off topic to OSR according to the fishfag. Eat shit, asshole. This is just another attempt at you trying to obfuscate reality by creating a false purity spiral.
>>97488605Yeah, its a kettle of wax. Overall I think the part you may have difficulty with is low magical stuff. Most tsr d&d base has a lot of magical stuff going on as part of its foundation, be it classes, monsters, treasure, whatever. Its really in there and hard to remove without getting weird. The design of adventures around a big monster or NPC as the magcial threat is more towards later era game design than osr dungeon exploration. You can do it, people did then, but it might not work as well with what this general generally does. fwiw I've heard good things about the Conan Mophidius game but haven't looked at it.
>>97488636>>97488638>>97488677You seem miffed.Using ACKS for anything even remotely related to Conan is like a joke out of UHF.
>>97488688>>Yeah, its a kettle of wax. Overall I think the part you may have difficulty with is low magical stuff. Most tsr d&d base has a lot of magical stuff going on as part of its foundation, be it classes, monsters, treasure, whatever. Its really in there and hard to remove without getting weird. >The design of adventures around a big monster or NPC as the magcial threat is more towards later era game design than osr dungeon exploration. You can do it, people did then, but it might not work as well with what this general generally does. fwiw I've heard good things about the Conan Mophidius game but haven't looked at it.Funnily enough I've found a pretty tidy way to do it. And boy is this going to blister a certain piscine asshole, but:ACKS can be modified to run proper Howard style games fairly easily.>Remove any active shooty-firebally class>Replace with a ritual magic class ala Heroic Handbook that lets them attempt any spell regardless of level from 1st level>Give them the option to research from 1st level using the research costings tablesAnd here's the really fucking important part>Lift from Carcosa and make it so they can summon up/bind creatures, which are bent to their service as part of the ritual and so on.A warlock running around shooting fireballs to fuck people up isn't very HowardA warlock taking a day or two to call up a demon which he then tells to go throw fireballs to fuck people up is though.Make it so they can create magic items early as well for one use actual-magic of the 'Guess who just caught a lightning bolt' variety and players still have options.Heroic Handbook is a good start basically, but doesn't go far enough in splitting away from baseline magic.
>>97488753>ACKS BAD!holy fuck kill yourself already
>>97488774kek not bad. Not familiar with ACKS (not racist, just don't like em) but how much will you have to reorganize treasure tables to reduce the amount of magical items compared to the ad&d treasure tables? There's magical swords and scrolls and potions all over the place in that one, and the monster encounter tables/dungeon keying involve a lot of what it sounded like you were trying to avoid in the 2d4 goblins.
>>97488821>Not familiar with ACKS (not racist, just don't like em) but how much will you have to reorganize treasure tables to reduce the amount of magical items compared to the ad&d treasure tables? There's magical swords and scrolls and potions all over the place in that one, and the monster encounter tables/dungeon keying involve a lot of what it sounded like you were trying to avoid in the 2d4 goblins.I'd keep them personally. Just make magic weapons into weapons of extraordinary quality or low-key magic, nix scrolls out entirely, have potions be alchemy or natural, then any wonderous magic items can be left as 'Magic shit that's really useful and rare'>Magic rope?>Yeah it's made from the hair of sacred virgins, it won't break>Works for me
>>97488774>it's really easy to modify ACKS to run Howard-style!Sure, just remove everything that makes it ACKSMight as well play B/X and spare yourself the shame.
>>97488855>Sure, just remove everything that makes it ACKSYou mean like the conquering a Kingdom by your own hand and ruling over it? The CK part in the middle?Frankly being able to tweak ACKS to fit with different campaign styles is the thing I like the most about it, even more than the CK.
>>97488858>conqueringACKS doesn't capture the feeling of conquering a kingdom. It captures the feeling of waiting patiently for your accountant to explain whether refinancing your company's vehicle fleet makes sense when the projected decrease in interest rates for the next year may be dwarfed by the rise in registration costs.In the world of "Games as Blowjobs", ACKS is getting your dick sucked by a skeleton.
>>97488267If you're a bean counter, then as Anon says ACKS is pretty well named after Conan's career. If not, then I should say that the OD&D clone Seven Voyages of Zylarthen is the most suitable for Conanesque gameplay, but of course there's also the actual Hyborian OD&D clone Age of Conan available on grey-elf.com. Personally I don't feel that it captures the vibe as well as 7VoZ, but there's no denying its entire devotion to the Hyboria setting.>>97488340>Howardian campaigns are not OSR.Yes they are.>Your question belongs in the fake generalNo questions belong in the fake general, which is a Potemkin village designed to piss off the populace of this general. The only valid reasons to post there are to mock Fishfag and to shitpost it to death.
>>97488915No amount of you shitting, seething or slinging around subpar metaphors changes the facts.Cope harder and louder about it though, I'm not sure the people in the back can hear you.
>>97488937>coughs dust all over my dickFucking gross. No one wants your dry ass bones on their cock, you faggot. Keep away from me.
>>97488838>just refluff it Sure I suppose. Still doesn't get into the disparity between the desired adventure based around magical villains rather than goblin encounters but likely close enough to work. I've recently found the ritual summoning in Carcossa unsatisfactory. The rituals, the monsters they bind, etc. are very spread out across the map and there aren't many mechanisms for learning rituals at all. Its a cool idea but needs a lot of work that just isn't there. I've been mulling over how to have even learning about rituals be more frequently part of the gameplay. Probably going to just start throwing scrolls of >learn rape monster ritual into treasure like they're candy. >>97488915lolmad
>>97488979>goblin encountersEasy, turn them into cannibals, cavemen, or other ape-men.
>>97488774Interesting ideas. Carcosan Sorcery is definitely very S&S in tone. A bit more gruesome, perhaps, but a lot of that is just McKinney saying the quiet part out loud.>>97488619>>97488667>>97488753>>97488855>>97488915>>97488969Ritual disembowelment to atone for your failures would be in order, fishnigger.
>>97488979>lolmadWant to see "mad"?>>97489006
>>97488979>lolmadHe's incredibly mad, as always.And that's more an approach issue than anything. Check out Jewels of Gwahlur and tell me that's not peak OSR dungeon.You do need a pretty big gear shift to make something more Howardian, more human enemies, with non-human ones being rare, exotic and dangerous.Maybe switch things around so that most of the game takes place on the overworld with the dungeons being the more dangerous location, someone's discussed that kind of thing: https://arbrethil.substack.com/p/adventurer-colonist-king - Here, previously>>97489012>Disrespecting me for being a constant irritation is mad>Raving about skeleton blowjobs isn't mad though, that's perfectly normal behaviour.Stay salty.
>>97488999I might have interpreted >>97488605 incorrectly but it seemed like they were shooting for something with less encounters in general.
>>97488979>there aren't many mechanisms for learning rituals at allThis isn't an unreasonable criticism, especially considering how gnomic the entire book is, but I think the Bone Sorceror adventure is illustrative of how McKinney means it to work: if the PCs beat that guy, one of the big loot scores is his spellbook/stash, and IIRC there are a few elsewhere in the hex as well.
>>97489012>attempting "no u" againBig mad, lmao
>>97488921>The only valid reasons to post there are to mock Fishfag and to shitpost it to death.Speaking of this: *should* we shitpost the other thread down to keep him from making himself a nuisance about this thread hitting autosage first otherwise?
>>97489055Won't work, just let him waste his own time talking to himself in the other thread.
>>97489012You really should leave here, because he doesnt want to talk about OSR games. He just thinks everyine is his singke strawman and will call everyone it instead of having actual arguments. He has been at it for over a year if not more now. Do not feed this 60 something year old troll who cannot conprehend how this site works ir that we arent idiots.
>>97489055Really, bullying him is as much a pleasure as a duty.He's made it clear he's got no intention to fuck off and leave us alone so why not treat him the way he deserves?
>>97489024>approach I suspect I'm too literal at times and think giving the game a conan-like--vibe is a lot easier and more achievable through simple adjustments as you go than a more in depth rebuild. Most of the time the players aren't going to be as aware of the dungeon stocking procedures or lair density.
>>97488915>>97488855meds
>>97489035>one big haul has the ritual stuff in it might work, depends on my players getting their shit together enough to defeat a powerful entity or at least steal their stuff. I think I need to catalogue the different rituals and make a loot table for their frequency of appearance in texts and include them more.
>>97489074Quite.
If Gygax didn't do it, and you add it to your game anyways, than you aren't playing true OSR, which is fine, but terms have definitions and if you change that definition, you're no longer using the term correctly.
>>97489273>thanESL retard fishfag detected
It really is remarkable how easy it is to spot him, even when he's spouting shit he doesn't believe to try and stir shit up.You think at some point he'd stumble upon a technique to act like a normal human being and functional member of this general, even if purely by accident.But no, he just fails at every turn.
>>97489306I think fishfag might be a rogue AI
>>97489306The constant use of his "fish" strawman, the posting style utterly alien to /tg/, & how he floods a thread the second his screaming doesn't work.Imagine how nice this place will be once he is gone and we can talk about the OSR finally.
>>97489324Now that's completely unfair. AI has intelligence in the name so he can't be one, he'd be an AS at most. I suspect that, unfortunately, his is a purely biological stupidity.
If you don't like my message your problem isn't with me, it's with Gary
>>97489336It's kind of wild how he's been andomly calling people fishfag in this thread. I can't make head or tails of what's provoking him at this point.
>>97489306It's one of the strongest proofs IMO that he's legitimately insane. You'd think that even the most incompetent tranny discord brigade attempter would realize that he can't have a super distinct voice, but somehow he just doesn't.
>>97489336>>97489391seek meds or suicide, fishfag
>>97489336>>97489391>t. FishfagSee? So easy.
>>97488821noticed that as well when ackshills spammed acks MM in the other thread and I figured there are treasure types I didn't expect, so I compared some B/X, 1e and acks monsters and treasure tables, and they are just completely fucked in acks, too much gold and magic items for too little challenge the thing about rules is you first have to understand why they are there is the first place before breaking them
>>97489760>the thing about rules is you first have to understand why they are there is the first place before breaking themFunny, you could say the same thing about the culture of a general.But that never stopped you acting like the most feral chimp in the monkey pen whenever people tell you to fuck off and stop misbehaving, has it?
>>97489760Oh I wasn't talking about ACKS there with the treasure tables having lots of magical items. I was talking about AD&D and it generally being a highly magical default. Haven't actually ever looked at the B/X tables are they less so?
I'm building a campaign setting.I took Greyhawk, the area of the Pomarj.Pushed the Pomarj empire to the peninsula and the elf kingdom of celene more to the mountains and I'm adding a human kingdom in between to basically customize it whatever I want.In the border between the Pomarj and this kingdom I will throw the keep on the borderlands and start from there.Do you think this is a cool idea? Or people with some knowledge of Greyhawk will autistically rage at me?
>>97488821>how much will you have to reorganize treasure tables to reduce the amount of magical items compared to the ad&d treasure tables?There are tables to make sure treasures and magic items are available based on the type of game you want to play, S&S included.
>>97489879Should be fine. >Or people with some knowledge of Greyhawk will autistically rage at me?Not sure where or how you live that this could even be a real possibility.
>>97489760ACKS uses a 1:4 monster-to-XP ratio, compared to an 1:3 ratio in B/X and an 1:4 to 1:5 ratio in AD&D, so I don't see what's wrong with the treasure tables
>>97490387monster-to-treasure XP ratio, ffs
>>97490387>so I don't see what's wrongThe guy you're talking to is the fishfag, who hates ACKS and believes he is beset by evil "ackshills" at every turn.
>>97489760I dare you to post those comparisons. Should be really easy, right?
