Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere. Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency. If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help: >n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0 >Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 >Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768 >Previous thread:>>97528535>Thread question:What's your favorite Gygax module?
Here's the link to the resource repository, along with the threadly reminder to absolutely not eat bait or feed trolls.
>>97568665Maybe, but I'm not here to be skilful, I'm here to have passionate conversations about nerd shit with likeminded dorks.People who enjoy tabletop as much as I do and can have a scrappy disagreement without some reddit-tier mod parting the clouds from on high and lordly proclaiming that our discussion is too uncouth for his tastes so we're getting the ding-dong bannu.I've been here so long that I've thrown away underwear since I started posting on /tg/ and having to treat every post like a press release for fear of the self-appointed mod throwing his binkie out the pram would kill what makes this board wonderful. It's just giving him exactly what he wants by other means, that being killing these threads since everyone'll be too tentative to have actual conversations.Still, until he fucks off I'll try to not give him an in if I can.That's the last I'll say on it.
>>97568691>What's your favorite Gygax module?lolhow's that even a question?B2 Keep on the Borderlands, of course.
>>97568724Gotta have some TQ, Anon! For my part I'm very fond of WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.
My friend thinks that Darksun has too much slavery and that our DM brings it up too often. To be fair, our DM does draw attention to slaves every time we're in a town, but I don't know if that's the setting or the DM.
>>97568720Understood. No worries, I was just sharing my thoughts, not trying to impose anything on anyone. Ultimately you'll do what YOU think is right. I'd be posting on plebbit otherwise. I also agree we've said more than enough and there's nothing to add.
>>97568691>What's your favorite Gygax module?The Temple of Elemental Evil baby. Epic scale, fun prizes, great pitch and plot; what's not to love?
>>97568763That's... not a Gygax module, Anon. Frank Mentzer wrote ToEE, Gygax only wrote T1 Village of Hommlet.
>>97568744If your friend doesn't like it, he should tell the DM and not you.Dark Sun does have slaves. A fuck lot of slaves.And it's pretty relevant to the setting that they exist because it's not a happy place and everyone is struggling.But, if your friend doesn't like that for whatever reason, he can just ask the DM to focus on something else when in town.It's important to not that while Dark Sun has slaves, PCs are not expected to have slaves in Dark Sun. There's no rules for buying them, not even a gp cost. So, even people decades ago knew that they shouldn't go gung-ho on the slavery stuff in an RPG.
>>97568797The two of them worked on it together actually, Gygax had a set of notes for what the temple was, its locals, the plot, ect, ect, Frank Mentzer then helped take the bag of snakes and laid them out/expanded it out further which is how T1-4 were created.At least that's my understanding of how things worked out between them on it, I could be wrong/misremembering/retarded. Any of those are possible.
>>97568800Players buying slaves is where I'd probably draw a line.
>>97568586Stage magic could possibly develop if arcane/divine magic is rare. Most people will never be priests or mages, but juggling or palming coins or the like is a skill that theoretically anyone could pick up with just a few dozen hours of practice (at least we’ll enough to do it badly), and then like any skill it develops from there.Plus like I suggested, low/no magic settings.I dunno, I might toss together a Magician class for B/X in my spare time at some point. Might be fun.
>>97568860It's a bit shocking they didn't have a table for slave purchases though, especially given you can play some downright unsavory characters in a Dark Sun game.
>>97568860I know a group that actually had people who bought slaves for their PCs, and all I could think was "Fuck, this is what kind of fantasies they have?" I didn't even want to be judgemental, but in telling the story they were acting like the worst kind of stereotypical grogs combined with retarded virgins. >>97568905Slavery is one of those really unnecessary things for a PC. It's easy to justify even things like murder and torture, but it's kind of hard to make a case for owning a slave when servants/hirelings are cheap and plentiful, unless you're planning on the campaign lasting several years in game.
>>97568836That's a good point actually, Gygax did supposedly lay out a lot of the basics since he meant to write a T2 himself originally. (Or actually I think they were supposed to be WG1-2 in the original plan.) Alright, I rescind my remark, Anon.
>janny removes polite urging that clearly off-topic posts be kept out of the general>leaves the shitpostsThis again, huh?
>>97569015No one said jannies were smart. Hey stupid faggots, the topic of this thread is laid out up top, if you're confused about which thread you're looking at!
>>97568986It just seems like it'd be a variation of a hireling that might be tempting for ab Evil character. Or a very convoluted PC plan to infiltrate a slave auction.
>>97569031Got a point there, they might just not know. Dear jannies, Dark Sun is a 2e setting from 1991, so it's wholly out of scope for this general. It was made for a non-OSR game almost a decade after the generally accepted old-school cutoff; the anon knows this perfectly well, and is posting it entirely deliberately to troll and try to derail the thread. Kindly do not repeat this sort of feckless misintervention, and instead remove the offending posts.Yours,Anon
>>97569037If I were a game designer, I would probably just leave it to the DMs for those use-cases, considering the kind of bad press you could get if someone decided having gp values for slaves meant you were encouraging players to purchase them. It'd actually be hard to argue you weren't, because players seeing something has an HP value means they immediately start trying to figure out how to kill it.
>>97569093
>>97569071Just replace “Dark Sun” with “Gor” every time you see it.
>>97568744Whats been happening in your dark sun game?
>>97569147>>97569182>>97569189Again, you seem confused about the scope of this thread, although the OP is perfectly clear. However, fortunately for you, the new /2eg/ is now posted; take your discussion there instead, which is where it belongs, not in this thread for OSR games: >>97568805
>>97569147But he does not want to replace Dark Sun with stupid.
>>97569182First adventure was down into some ruins and we found a small aquifer at the bottom. Pristine water. Really big deal apparently.Since then it's been defending our base there and dicking around in the desert. Exploring lots of little ruins. We're looking for another big one but our group doesn't want to go too far from our base.
>>97569306found any ruins yet? Whats the party comp, & what are their long term plans in athas?
>>97568986>it's kind of hard to make a case for owning a slave when servants/hirelings are cheap and plentifulWhen hirelings are routinely being sacrificed in the name of checking for traps, drawing the line at whether or not the PC legally owned the person they just used as cannon fodder is a pointless hangup. None of which says anything about the morality of your players, in the same way that running a game where purchasing slaves was an option doesn't say anything about you.
>>97569408>When hirelings are routinely being sacrificed in the name of checking for trapsThey won't do that, read the rules, you offtopic posting faggot
>>97569416>hirelings won't walk down an empty hallway or open a doorlmao
>>97569326The ruins we're finding are less than 10 rooms. We know there's something bigger, but I think we're searching too close to our base ruin.I'm playing a thief, and we've gota fighter who acts like a paladin,another fighter who just fights,a water priest who is a wet blanket and never wants to be too far from base,and a ranger who has humans as his favored enemy and that's been really complicated.
>>97569455Anon's right, if the hirelings understand that's a form of trap checking (and you're not supposed to run them as dumber than a sack of hammers as well as deaf) they explicitly won't do it. Nothing the PCs themselves won't take point on, in fact. That's why they only get a half-share.
>>97569306How important water is depends on the location (and the DM). It's not like Arrakis where people nut over the idea of taking a bath, but it can get pretty Mad Max Fury Road about water.
>>97569462>water priestvery cool, it's something i've been meaning to play myself also someones reposting these in the troll /2eg/ for some reason. And yeah there's definitely some bigger dungeon out there i'd wager, you guys keep looking for it and you will find something great.
>>97569107Where is that from?
>>97569093>considering the kind of bad press you could get if someone decided having gp values for slaves meant you were encouraging players to purchase them. It'd actually be hard to argue you weren't,Yeah. Though I think in TSR's heyday people would be less histronic about fictional people selling other fictional people into slavery than they are today.
>>97569519>also someones reposting these in the troll /2eg/With IMAGES attached. Kinda based.
>>97569519Wtf
>>97569520The CSIO and Ready Ref Sheets.
>>97563572>>97565642I think a plumbata can be perfectly represented by darts.Pilum, I am unsure. It's a very heavy Javelin. Say in BX-type games I would use it as a spear, with the ability to "pin" the shield of the target if a save against... wands? paralysis? is not passed. 2d4 rounds to remove it from the shield.To compensate with the spear, make it rarer, costlier (more metal) and/or decrease the range.But bottom line, is a d6-class weapon not a d4 one.
So, when are we getting Horrors Without Number
>>97570012Will they ever publish a free form RPG book called numbers without numbers?
>>97570030
>>97570188>"just wing it bro"majestic thanks anonbut seriously this author is good
>>97568744>>97568800off-topic
>>97569182off-topic
>>97569301>>97569302
let it be known:fishfag has admitted he has downs syndrome
>>97570314I said Gor is stupid not ACKS, you Swedish Fish for brains.
Pic re: the darts discussion. Romans thought the Plumbata was pretty tits, like the best throwing weapon around. The lead weight allows it to carry more energy for a stronger impact. Light cavalry would dash up and toss these into massed enemy ranks to cause havoc right before the infantry moved in.
>>97569495>if the hirelings understand that's a form of trap checkingHirelings don't even go into dungeons in the first place under normal circumstances.>That's why they only get a half-share.Hirelings don't get ANY share of treasure, only a wage. Only henchmen/retainers do.
>>97570012>>97570030As a proud member of the OSRCS (Old School Revolutionary Command for Simulationism), I refuse to play anything without numbers (and spreadsheets). But you guys have fun!
>>97570969What is that? A plumbata for ants?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHzJkPRmx8k
>>97571273Many years ago. I have since evolved.
>>97570972This is just a misunderstanding based on the inconsistent terminology across editions. The anons are clearly talking about henchmen.
>Janny is outright deleting jokes by this pointLighten the fuck up, you miserable cunt. Jesus.
>>97571516They may well be talking about henchmen instead of hirelings, but that has nothing to do with inconsistent terminologies across editions, they're just confused and wrong."Henchmen" (AD&D) or "retainers" (B/X), are the same thing with a different name. They are just synonyms, and neither one has anything to do with hirelings.There's no confusion whatsoever between "henchmen" and "hirelings" across AD&D and B/X:An AD&D hireling is a B/X hireling is an AD&D hireling.An AD&D specialist is a B/X specialist is an AD&D specialist.
>>97571545The interventions are so random and meaningless that I have to wonder whether it's artificial intelligence or natural stupidity.
>>97571568I could counter that in OD&D they're called hirelings, but that's beside the point, Anon. When you see anons referencing NPCs who enter the dungeon and are paid in half-shares, you should be able to recognize what's being discussed, instead of having a terminological huff.
>>97571633ntayrt Why not both? Making a distinction is likely important given how often the differences between NPCs you hire that go into a dungeon vs those who don't come up and clarification is always useful when it comes to games where clear communication is both difficult and important. That being said, its not a big deal to use the wrong word, just accept the correction and move on. You're allowed to be wrong.
>>97571633Except there's a bunch of Anons who don't know that hirelings don't go into dungeons (except occasionally in AD&D for 30 times the normal pay but still no shares). So there's no way of knowing whether they're getting the terms wrong, the rules wrong, or both.
How death works again? Say, party explores a dungeon, some characters die, do players just sit there?Also how returning to dungeon works? For example some characters died, so the rest decided to leave and return with a new party. Do they just continue to explore from the same state? I suppose I can just close some doors and put back some monsters, but are there any rules for this for B/X?And what if TPK happens, does new party exploring the dungeon find the bodies of the first one? Do traps reset?
>>97574603There are few strict rules about this in B/X, but here's how I would recommend that you handle it:>party explores a dungeon, some characters die, do players just sit there?If the dead PC had a henchman, the player can take over that henchman right away. This is a major point of having them in the first place. Otherwise, let the player make a new PC and introduce it at the next convenient moment – maybe that's in town, or maybe the party find the new PC trussed up like a pig in a corner in the next room, or wandering lost, or whatever. At any rate, make it snappy. Don't force the player to just sit there.>Do they just continue to explore from the same state? Ideally no, you want to restock the dungeon as you say in the next sentence. When you do this, try not to just replace the dead monsters with more of the same; instead, put in new inhabitants, and restock less the faster the party are about returning – it makes sense that if the party are gone longer, more monsters will fill more abandoned areas, right?>are there any rules for this for B/X?Not really, no, most of this is good practice which has been spread among the OSR community.>And what if TPK happens, does new party exploring the dungeon find the bodies of the first one? Do traps reset?Again, this is really up to you ,but for my preferences certainly they should find the corpses (unless such a long time elapses that monsters have dragged off the carcasses and eaten them, or indeed they got killed by some huge carnivore in the first place). Intelligent humanoids might have stripped the dead of arms and other valuables, of course. As for traps, it really depends on the trap: is it set up by some inhabitant, and watched? Or magical? Or some ancient device that might run out of oil, or arrows, or whatever it is?Ultimately you have to use your imagination for all this, but the upside is, you can use your imagination to decide it!
>>97574603>do players just sit there?Have them roll up new characters, they can show up as the surviving members of another party who got lost in the dungeon or whatever.>Do they just continue to explore from the same state?If time has passed, the dungeon will change. Monsters move about, new ones may move in, treasure left in the open may be gathered up and relocated to a greedy monster's lair. Just do whatever makes sense in the time span between delves.>>97574603>does new party exploring the dungeon find the bodies of the first one?If it makes sense. If they're eaten or carried off to be eaten, probably not. Check your wandering monster tables and local populations, some monsters may loot the bodies, other may eat them.>Do traps reset?Depends on the traps and the local environment. They probably get reset by somebody.
>>97574603Welcome, Anon.>Say, party explores a dungeon, some characters die, do players just sit there?Unless the players are very stupid, they should have henchmen with them, so hand them the henchman's character sheet.If they have no henchmen, they should probably return home ASAP anyway after characters die.>Also how returning to dungeon works?Remember to roll for wandering monsters both ways. And remember that moving through already-explored areas happens at a faster pace, so there should be fewer wandering monster checks if the players have made an accurate map.>Do they just continue to explore from the same state? I suppose I can just close some doors and put back some monsters, but are there any rules for this for B/X?I don't believe there's anything explicit in B/X, but there's universally accepted best practices. One source is in B2 KotB, page 14:>EMPTIED AREAS: When monsters are cleared out of on area, the place will be deserted for 1-4 weeks. If no further intrusion Is mode into the area, however, the surviving former inhabitants will return or else some other monster will move in. For instance, a thoul might move into the minotaur's cave complex bringing with him whatever treasure he has.What most people do is a combination of common sense (what would surviving monsters do?) and some variation rolling on the standard stocking table of Moldvay page 52, ignoring traps and special results. Unless the surviving monsters move in, you could do a 2-in-6 chance that the room will be restocked with new monsters each week. As for what will restock it, you can either roll on the wandering monsters table from the dungeon itself, or on the general dungeon monster table in B/X. Or make some shit up of your own.1/2
>>97574603>>975747562/2>And what if TPK happens, does new party exploring the dungeon find the bodies of the first one?Extremely unlikely. B/X is not a modern videogame, dead bodies are found very soon in a dungeon.>Do traps reset?Many reset on their own, for example pit traps.Some cause irreversible damage, like roof collapses. You'll have to make some shit up in those cases.For traps that need to be manually reset, that's up to you and the nature of the dungeon. If there's intelligent monsters who are aware of the traps, then they definitely reset them. Otherwise, you'd have to ask yourself: When was the trap built in the first place, and why has it never been sprung before? Unless it's some very remote part of the dungeon that nobody has gone through since it was built, the very fact that there are active traps means that somebody or something is resetting them. Remember that you don't have to explain, let alone KNOW, who or what is resetting the traps. Dungeons are mysterious and hostile places: Remember how doors are always stuck for players and never stuck for monsters.Hope this helps.
>>97574688>they can show up as the surviving members of another party who got lost in the dungeon or whatever.FOEGYG. Deaths have consequences, and dungeons are not Disneyland.
>>97574773Nobody said it doesn't. How does rolling up a 0 XP level 1 character who is in a goblin cage waiting to be thrown in the stew pot when player arrive somehow eliminate the consequences of the previous character's death? The player's starting over at 0 regardless, and quite possibly a different class so his dead guy's gear won't work.
>>97574839You probably should just avoid any poster who says FOEGYG like a cancer.
>>97574763>>97574756>>97574688>>97574679Thanks for you answers!> hechmenB1 explicitly states that level 1 characters can't have henchmen though, so I guess they will just find a new PC> trussed up like a pig in a corner in the next room, or wandering lost, or whatever.
>>97574848Nah, nothing wrong with telling people to FOEGYG if it's warranted. In this case he's off base so I gave him what-for.
Geez, it almost touched me. Still gotta take a shower for an hour though.
>>97574902And don't take a FOEGYGing too seriously. If somebody tosses it at you, you don't need to have a meltdown, just stop and consider whether you are fucking up your OSR, or if it is the children who are wrong. Could go either way!
>>97574756>One source is in B2This is a good point that deserves underscoring: B2 actually contains several rules that are arguably "part of B/X" since the module was included in the Moldvay box set and meant to be a major element in teaching the referee the game.
>>97571917>hirelings don't go into dungeons except occasionally in AD&D for 30 times the normal payThe rule you're referencing is the DMG paragraph "daily employment" where it says>Soldiers can be hired, but not captains, lieutenants, or serjeants. They recognize hazardous duty, and the cost per day is the same as per month. The supply of such men-at-arms willing to work day-to-day is strictly limitedThat paragraph not a generally applicable rule. What it means is:Captains, lieutenants, and serjeants can't be hired on a day-to-day (dtd) basisRegular soldiers can be hired dtd.If the work is hazardous the dtd soldier gets paid every day what would normally be the fee for a month.If the rule were generally applicable there would be a contradiction because earlier in the Expert Hirelings section it says captains can be hired, but that paragraph says captains can't be hired. There is no contradiction because of time frame. That paragraph applies only to dtd hiring and the earlier paragraph is about normal monthly hiring.
>>97570293Oh no, I can't fucking play an osr game set in Dark Sun. It's absolutely fucking impossible. I can only use one of pre-approved settings made by TSR. That definitely rules out making up my own setting other because my own setting didn't exist in that magical fucking first fucking decade crap that some anon pulled out of his arse.
>>97575211Cook/Marsh: "Mercenaries are hired soldiers who will do typical army work. Like specialists they will usually not go on dungeon adventures and will only participate in wilderness adventures such as fighting other armies, clearing land of monsters around the castle, and defending the castle."No hireling, mercenary, or specialist normally goes into dungeons in B/X. That of course includes ship captains (since they are specialists) (not sure why you bring those up).The difference is that, in the DMG, you can take hirelings into dungeons for an explicitly stated price: 30 times the normal one, while in Cook/Marsh it only says that the price is "much higher", but it doesn't specify by how much: "*For hazardous duty the cost is double. The cost should be much higher if the DM permits mercenaries to go on an adventure with a player character. How much is left to the DM."If there's any discrepancy it's that the DMG uses "hazardous duty" to refer to going into dungeons or adventures with that level of danger (30× the pay), while Cook distinguished between "hazardous duty" (2× the pay) and "going on adventures" (much higher pay, but not specified by much).The double pay thing is historically standard and it refers to wartime as opposed to e.g. manning a castle in peacetime. It has nothing to do with going it dungeons. It refers to the afore-mentioned "wilderness adventures such as fighting other armies, clearing land of monsters around the castle, and defending the castle".So Cook/Marsh "hazardous duty, double pay": No DMG equivalent (IIRC).Cook/Marsh "go into (dungeon) adventures, much higher pay than double" = DMG "hazardous duty, 30× the pay".(There simply aren't serjeants and lieutenants in B/X, so not sure why you're bringing those up.)
>>97570654No, he didn't. The downser is somebody else.
>>97576234True, the guy said he "learned" 2e when he was 12, fishfag still hasn't learned it.
>>97575211>>97576230If there's interest, I can make an infographic on this whole topic. Sources are scattered and disorganised, so it might be worth it.
>>97576583I'd give you a certified, genuine, 100% authentic no-prize for doing it, anon
>>97576230>(There simply aren't serjeants and lieutenants in B/X, so not sure why you're bringing those up.)That's a super silly thing comment to make.I "brought up" serjeants and lieutenants because I quoted the DMG. Serjeants and lieutenants are in the DMG in the paragraph that I quoted. That paragraph is the only paragraph that I know of in the whole of the AD&D rule books that matches with the claim that hirelings will go into a dungeon in>>>AD&D for 30 times the normal pay.If you know a better matching rule in AD&D for that claim, educate us, otherwise it's very hard not to bring them up without doing some needless contraction like>Soldiers can be hired ... They recognize hazardous duty, and the cost per day is the same as per month. The supply of such men-at-arms willing to work day-to-day is strictly limitedNot only doesn't that improve the quote it would have prevented easily demonstrating that the quote is not generally applicable.If you're questioning why I quoted the DMG at all, that is also super silly because I already answered that question when I said I was quoting the rule being referenced. You need to direct your comment at the person who brought that up rule in AD&D. For all I know you are the person who wrote >>97571917 and your implied question is, "Why did you bring up the NPC hirelings mentioned in the rule to which I myself just referred?"
>>97576616>serjeantsSergeants?
>>97576583Please do, sir knight!
>>97576619If you're questioning the spelling, I quoted the DMG letter perfect. It's a Gary-ism, part of his archaic affectations and purple prose.If you're questioning the meaning, they are the same. The "j" still sees limited use such as in at least one regiment of the British Army and in the Houses of Parliament.
>>97576658
>>97576081Just report or ignore the post and move on. Let's not risk taxing their two remaining neurons.
>>97574773No one stops playing just because their character died.
>>97576605>>97576629Freshly baked! This one required a little bit more interpretation than usual, but I believe my conclusions are solid, and I've provided enough sources for Anons to come to their own conclusionsFeedback appreciated, particularly if I've missed anything relevant from any first decade rulebook.
>>97576926Marcie, get out of here. YOU’RE DEAD! You don’t exist anymore.
>>97576605>>97576629>>97577148>TL;DRJust the conclusions for the lazy.
>>97576081correct>>97576912announcing reports is against the rules, junior-janny
>>97577167NO, NOT BLACKLEAF
>>97574679>or maybe the party find the new PC trussed up like a pig in a corner in the next roomThis is what empty rooms and dead ends are for. Good post.
>>97577148Good summary, Anon. The DMG page 175 note is particularly interesting with reference to B/X; there's a parallel there to the level range of Basic, and it meshes well with the assertion in Moldvay that henchmen will not accept employment with level 1 PCs. Although it seems apparent that Moldvay's intent is for new players not to have any retainers at all so that they can focus on learning the game, one can easily extrapolate a procedure whereby the PCs hire men-at-arms in Basic which then run out and/or are promoted to henchmen as the PCs reach Expert levels.
I'm introducing my friend to ttrpgs, and he fuckin' loves dinosaurs.What are some good adventures involving dinos besides "Isle of Dread" and "World of the Lost" for LotFP.
>>97578036>it meshes well with the assertion in Moldvay that henchmen will not accept employment with level 1 PCsYeah, I really think the hireling and henchmen rules are best understood by using the rules in all books, since they're all compatible but incomplete.For example, I don't think the DMG has a provision for double pay in times of war, but I think it's a must.
>>97578422Damn, good question. I actually don't know many off the top of my head. Carcosa is full of dinosaurs, often mutant ones, but I'm not sure it's the vibe you want for games with your bro you're just getting into RPGs. Maybe some of the Hollow World modules have dinosaurs? I don't think they published more than three or four of those, though.
>>97578422Take any modules and just describe anything bigger than a human as being some kind of dinosaur critterKobolds could be little azhdarchid pterosaur guys without any wings etc
>>97579011wow, this is really gay advice.
ACKS anons. I come for advice. My character has acquired the loyalty of a level 0 henchmen who can level up into a priestess. She has 1 HP and the contemplation, endurance, survival, theology and healing proficiencies. Is there anything useful she can do in a dungeon I should be aware of? I am wracking my brain and all I could come up with is waiting about, horsetail in hand, ready to help party members knocked down. I don't want her to carry a light or anything because smart monsters will attack her.
>>97579528A level 0 character shouldn't have anything but general proficiencies.
>>97579560Then how do 0 level fighters work?
>>97579613They don't have proficiencies. They only get them at 1.
>>97579709wrong actually
A lot of pedantic tule arguing and not any question answering.
>>97579528That is a trap-tester/monster-bait.
Negatory my friend. Her life is literally worth more to me than about half of the PCs.
>>97579900Healing proficiency is good to have though
>>97579528>all I could come up with is waiting about, horsetail in hand, ready to help party members knocked down.I'm afraid that's it, other than to use her as a packing mule.>I don't want her to carry a light or anything because smart monsters will attack her.Keep her in the back with a torch, making sure that she's protected, so at least she can light the rearguard.>>97579560>A level 0 character shouldn't have anything but general proficiencies.>>97579709>They don't have proficiencies. They only get them at 1.Wrong.Most of level 0 NPCs are non-combatant, but some are, like those that have military occupations. Check page 253 of the JJ.
>>97579528If you don't want her carrying the light porter and dog handler are your best bets.>>97579560Armour and weapon proficiencies are generally class profs I think.
>>97579978She needs xp anon. How is she going to get xp 'at home'.
>>97579951Yeah we needed someone else with it. Our elf has healing 3 but he went down in the last fight so we realized we need someone else to stand him up so he can stand the rest of us up.
>>97579833>A lot of pedantic tule arguing Of course we're arguing about tule. Tule doesn't grow in Mongolia but tule can still be used to weave baskets with tonal and mechanical fidelity to the non-linear Mongolian style. That means it's right on topic for this forum. When will you false basket enthusiasts realise tule is the superior reed?
RIP Comedy. Sad that you had to die this way.
>>97580058kek
>>97579528She doesn't even have the Adventuring proficiency? She's going to be utterly useless in a dungeon. She has better odds of making it to first level if you buy her a clinic and go on an advertising campaign to get her customers.>>97579560>A level 0 character shouldn't have anything but general proficiencies.This is incorrect. Many have weapon, armour, and fighting style proficiencies. Some even have class proficiencies and a few can cast spells or cantrips.
>>97579528The other anons are right, you're pretty much looking at a porter/linkboy here with that single HP and even that's taking a big risk.
>>97580058lmao
>someone posts a 2e general >After a few bad days it's actually resulted in reducing shit posting in both generals for the past few days and lively vibrant conversation in both threads >What probably started off as a troll has produced a success story
>>97580286>What probably started off as a trollNah, it was a genuine attempt to get the troll to fuck off, or at least keep him busy for a while. But after a few days of trying and failing to convince people to post about 2e here, it's possible he's learned something again. For the first time since months of bullying finally got him to understand that 1974-1983 really is a whole decade, and adding 1984 would be 11 years.
>>97580308>>97580286Probably just got banned. Give it about 1 more day and he'll be back at it
>>97580286>having to pat yourself on the back>when you're making posts like >>97580058 >>97580137 >>97580231If you have to try and convince everyone how good your bumps are, they're probably not that good.
>>97580335Unfortunately I agree with this. If that: >>97580351(For the record, >>97580351, I was one of the guys laughing and I genuinely thought that was funny, significantly funnier than anything you've ever posted)
>>97580286The above being said, it is pretty sweet though, I agree. I'm not even in the other thread but it's nice that they're having interesting conversations about their preferred game which the speg no doubt considers to be fake AI bumps.
>>97580389The joke is that you're bumping two threads in an identical fashion and hoping to put on a show. When that show isn't all that convincing, you make a post hoping to tell people what they should think, rather than trusting themselves and generally distrusting you.It's fairly obvious what you're hoping to convince people of. You've even just laid it out for everyone, so we can generally assume the truth is far from it.
>>97580105Doubtful that the player character is high enough level to engage in that stuff. Usually it kicks in at 5th lvl at the earliest so wouldn't be able to lead the hench to lvl that way.Just go adventuring and don't get your arse kicked and call it good business.
>>97581026Actually, depending on how liquid the party is, you could do a mercantile adventure and keep the proto priestess in a vehicle. Lvl 0s have no xp threshold so you wouldn't need to make that much profit for her to start getting there. Though it is a bit more work to understand the arbitration rules and more work on the refs part to run so many days of travel quickly. I'd still just bring her as a porter personally.
>>97581026We have 3 melee fighter types and a crusader to bubble wrap the squishies with.The PCs are all level 1 and 2, hopefully we don't encounter anything too tough.
>>97581452I thought of that but we are in a small market right now and I don't know the market conditions of where we are going.
>>97581457Arbitration needs you to do a fair amount of prepwork. Getting your vehicles and animals, assessing demand modifiers, making sure you've enough muscle to mean you don't get rolled by the first bandit encounter you come across. Something you could do, but more complicated and not necessary quick. And all of that assumes the referee has all the towns mapped out with the import/export numbers. Unless he is running the Auran Borderlands from AX3(which has those numbers for all the settlements) it might be unreasonable to expect it from whomever is running your game.
>>97581628The map seems to be some kind of official material so that may be the case.
>>97578422There was an anon here running this fairly recently. Haven't used it myself but it looked cool. There's dinosaurs in the standard Monster Manual, just start chucking them in there. Heck even Carcossa has dinosaurs. Not the focal point but they're in it.
Does anyone have good advice on the value of magic items? In GP as XP I am thinking about a level and a half but I have nothing to base that off of.I am going to make the players barter for the sell price but I want to know what price the buyer would think is fair
>>97579148Why?
>>97584896AD&D DMG. Forgot the page but values are listed for every magic item in one of the chapters. Winter Net Arg Hives should have a copy, ctrl-f it.
Hello trogs it's been quite a few years since i last posted here and not played ttrpgs since my daughter was born ~3 years ago. I just took the plunge on DCC and the first adventure tome, trying to drag my old pathfinder buddies in to some tabletop. What am I actually in for? I probably should've done some research in hindsight...
>>97585223Go make a DCC thread, this isn't the "every game that has a dungeon" general
>>97585234You just reminded me why I stopped posting here, thanks you useless fucking faggot.
>>97585223DCC is pretty chaotic. You kind of have to know that getting into it because if anyone is uptight or a control freak they are going to SHIT themselves.There's some things I like. Hard to admit it, but I actually prefer Ref/Fort/Will saves.There's some things I dislike. Like the Luck ability score in a game that's already a bit to random for my tastes.I can see how people can have fun with it, and I can see how people who don't enjoy fun would hate it.
>>97580016I just read up on the rules and stats for dogs and that was unironically good advice. War dogs are better than most beastmen and you don't have to give them money or xp.Thank you anon.
>>97585223DCC is not OSR. Either way if you actually want good, Gygaxian D&D OSR, you should be playing ACKS
>>97585223>>97585223- It prides itself in disregarding the concept of "balance", which is a strength.- The magic system is fantastic; one-shots will see wizards spellburning to unleash insane results.- There is an overabundance of level-0 funnels. They're fun, but not really indicative of DCC as a whole.- Be liberal with Warriors "Mighty Deeds" (within reason). It's the core of their class.- Remind Thieves and Halflings about their luck burning. New players forget.- If you have a tablet or laptop, use the Crawlers Companion app. It's quicker than referencing the tables in the book.>https://crawler.purplesorcerer.com- It doesn't really have codified rules for dungeon crawling, funny enough. Use this supplement:>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xNviMK2ACWNNhhASSBQl2ZeRoej6yl0k/view?usp=sharing
>>97585506That's such a retarded justification for why a game shouldn't be considered OSR and the writer is clearly too stupid to understand the real reason DCC can't be considered OSR
>>97585520He's the author of the game, and I don't think the justification, retarded or otherwise, matters at al. This isn't an "argue about DCC" general either.
Anyone have the MP3 dungeon audio file that came bundled with "World of the Lost" for LotFP?
>>97585520I think the designer is just hoping to avoid some of the grognardism that comes with being associated with the OSR. There's definitely some guys out there who are giving it a bad name.
>>97585223I don't know, I don't play dcc.>>97585498Acks is good but I can't recommend it to a beginner, excepting if they have a veteran referee.>>97585395War dogs are great. I think the rules are one person can handle a dog but it goes up to six dogs per person if they have animal handling.>>97585562There's a what?
Do we consider Godbound OSR or NuSR?
>>97586227It's B/X based but very weird, so kinda borderline. I'd say NuSR. Maybe somebody should make a /nsrg/
>>97586223Its a long ambient, droning MP3 that at 50 minutes goes into some alarm mode for the weird dungeon
I don't get why vancian magic gets so much hate, pretty much everywhere, outside the osr community. Well not quite true, I get that people don't like limitations and that's why they budge it over to spell points and remove other casting restrictions, but any mana/mp/sp system is such a boring design, I'm surprised that no one else mentions how spell slots make for more meaningful resource management, or for storyfags, how single cast spells feel more profound.
>>97586227NuSR are OSR.
>>97586297I don't get it either. I suppose people have played with DMs who don't give out enough information so you can't tell which spells to prepare. Or they didn't bother to seek out the info and then said "This is bullshit!" when they discover they didn't prepare the things they need.
>>97586297>I'm surprised resource management isn't more popular than describing how cool you are and it automatically happening Really anon?
>>97586297>storyfagsYou are still trying to force that?
>>97586523I'm not forcing it, it just stuck to me. And fuck it, the website has a long tradition of users calling everyone, up to and including oneself, some kind of X-fag.
>>97586523That term's been floating around /tg/ for more than a decade, it's long past time to give up on the "forced meme!" claims, bro
>>97586536Acting like you're adversarial to stories in RPGs is really nothing more than trolling behavior. Whether it's complaining about "storyshit" or "storyfags" or "theaterkids" or however else, it's nothing more that a false dichotomy where you pretend that unless a group has the exact same ratio that you personally use, they're nothing more than railroad-loving drama queens who ignore all dice rolls and mechanics just so they can jack each other off.
>>97586585>Swears are trolling Fuck off back to whatever hugbox your bullshit crawled out of.
>>97586596It's not the swearing, illiteratefag.
>>97586585t. railroad-loving drama queen
>>97586639Guilty!! Now, get out of here before I jack you off.
>>97586614ntayrt All commentary as slights to you at this point huh.
>>97586585Kinda onions but very true.
>>97586297Its often poorly explained, either with no reference to The Dying Earth style of spell memorization, or much thought put into how it could be different but still operate mechanically similarly, usually combined with some sort of irk about verisimilitude that could be explained in any way one wants but becomes a sort point because nerds like being mad. Might be something to hating on old dead guys is easy and popular, not concerned enough with genpop's perspective there to collect data.
>>97586585Lets not pretend that people don't play railroaded games where none of your dice rolls mean anything substantial and the bad guys are all calibrated to be challanging without being lethal. Storyfags are no boogy man or myth.
>>97586943Let's not pretend trolls who try to create false dichotomies don't exist.
>>97587007What about faggots who wring their hands about trolls whenever people say things they don't like?
>>97587007I never said it was a dichotomy. Feel free to keep shadowboxing though anon.
>>97586227I would say it's quasi-OSR. It's certainly not a NuSR game in the sense of being muh ruleslite *hack, but it's also not centrally OSR; it's more like a version of the Immortal box set that isn't absolute shit.>>97586297I have literally never seen a spell point system that works well. Out of all the stuff Gygax said about games his A&E comment that he'd considered a mana-based system himself but decided it was unplayable may be the single statement that's held up the best.>>97586323No.>>97586523>>97586585>t. Seething Storyfag>>97580351>>97580422>Persecutory Delusion Level: Lobstercracked
>>97586297>>97586334>>97586426>>97586862>outside the osr communityFirst of all, it's not just "outside the OSR community". Even the living gods of the OSR movement have been critical of it. Alexander Macris (ACKSII does not use spell preparation, and higher levels fully transition to ritual magic), Kevin Crawford (Worlds Without Number does not use spell preparation), and RPGPundit (none of his original settings use Vancian magic, also he recorded a whole video explaining this, see:>[YouTube] The Problem With D&D Magic (embed) )It really comes down to the simple fact that there are three ways for magic to be compelling in a game setting: 1) emulating magic from popular fiction, 2) emulating magic from folklore/mythology, and 3) emulating magic from real-world occult traditions. Gygaxian "Vancian" magic doesn't do any of these well, and it's not even a good adaptation of true Vancian magic (Lyonesse, based on Mythras, is far superior for that). While one could run a game in Mythic Greece, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, The Ulster Cycle, or The Black Company and use Vancian magic, the result would be far superior if one just used a system that actually properly emulated the relevant magic. Gygaxian-style "Vancian" magic simply isn't inherently interesting at all, and it doesn't allow people to faithfully replicate almost any magic-using characters in fiction save those from D&D tie-in novels. Also, it has nothing to do with its critics disliking limitations; the notion is, at best, cope. Because one of the most common alternatives to Gygaxian-style "Vancian" magic is ritual magic, which is almost always more restrictive, not less, more heavy on resource management, not less, and is usually more "dangerous" (for the character), not less. And it's usually fairly well-received when it's included. There are also plenty of OSR/NuSR games that use it, like the aforementioned ACKS and Invisible College, Ghastly Affair, Through Sunken Lands, etc.
>>97586297>>97586334>>97586426>>97586862https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJOEUxzIe58
>>97587082Another reason ACKS2 sucks, and I would stick with ACKS1 if I was gonna do ACKS. Having to choose your spells is resource management, eliminating the need to prepare ahead of time is a large buff to casters that they don't need.
Who is this shit guy giving out shit opinions while worshiping falsely? Just fecal matter spraying from his lips like he's from the 8th layer.
>>97587124Punditposters are the worst, I can't believe they're not doing this ironically.
>>97587082Who are you quoting
>>97587129Either it's brain damage or he's just doing the hip new thing of cringe-maxing, just getting people to cringe at him as many times and as quickly as possible.Which I guess is also a form of brain damage.
Actually the /osrg/ consensus is that ACKS2 is extremely good
>>97587168I disagree. And you should only try to speak for yourself.
>>97587172No, you speak for yourself. The wider OSR community disagrees with you. Not just here, the entire true OSR community. Funnily enough the only place that despises ACKS2 is reddit
>>97587168ACKS isn't even OSR.
>>97587178Having feats and selling splat books with extra classes should be an automatic disqualifier.
>>97587168To give it the fairest assessment, it's low-mid at best. I'd rather just play B/X, and every rule it changed or introduces doesn't really improve the game.It's still based on B/X so it can't be all bad, but it's almost like it's trying.
>>97587203That's too high a grade for a game that fucked up initiative.
>>97587203it's the only game I've ever played where we stopped playing just by unanimous decision that no one liked it.the DM was even the guy to call it. Ee spent three hours trying to play it, barely got a half hour's worth of stuff done if even that, and our Dm just asked "is anyone enjoying this cause i'm not' and everyone just sighed with relief like 'fuck i thought I was just gonna have to be quiet anr polite but nah man this game is shit."play it if you like it but miss me with that
>>97586223That is true for normal animals but war dogs have the guard trick package that lets an untrained person control 6 and a trained person controlled 20. How to actually get 20 is the real question.>>97586297Personally I think it gets a pass in OSR type games because low level spells are allowed to fight winners so the level 1 mage is actually holding the we win this fight card up his sleeve while in later editions the level one wizard has a ton of trap options for first level spells.Imo the only alternative that felt good was the old WHFRP 2e/DH 1e system where you can use your magic as much as you want but there is a good chance something weird happens, you could just die and everyone knows this so they don't trust you or want to be around you.
>>97587273I had that happen twice in my life.Both times it wasn't the system's fault though, just something about the vibe wasn't right that night for RPGs and we just wrapped things up very early and pulled out some board game instead.I can respect a GM who sees that the group's just not in the right mood and doesn't try to force things. It takes a level of self-awareness and humility that most GM's tend to lack.I think I'd just about always prefer to just skip a session than play through a bad one where no one's having fun.
>>97587082>It really comes down to the simple fact that there are three ways for magic to be compelling in a game setting: 1) emulating magic from popular fiction, 2) emulating magic from folklore/mythology, and 3) emulating magic from real-world occult traditions.This isn't true at all. The crucial way for magic to be compelling in a GAME is to function as an interesting GAME MECHANIC. This is what Vancian casting outdoes all competition at. Emulating fiction is simply not a priority in a fantastic adventure game; that's classic storyfaggotry.
>>97587168Many aspects of ACKS2 are very good, but removing spell memorization (which I hadn't even noticed tb h) is terrible and stupid. Fortunately the house rule to fix that is as shrimple as ignoring the offending paragraph.
>>97587178It's NuSR definitely. ACKS2 is NuNuSR.
>>97587281>in later editions the level one wizard has a ton of trap options for first level spells.There are still a lot of trap options in old-school D&D in all fairness, they really, really should have put in an explainer like "these spells are combat popguns/utility for higher-level casters, you should not select them before level 5". Magic Missile is the classic "looks good to players but is actually a terrible first level choice" spell.
>fishfag has seemingly given up on trying to force 2e and is now just spamming anti-ACKS content with a "how do you do, fellow kids?" grog disguisePathetic, feeble and doomed to fail, but kinda funny.
Does anyone have into on the two untitled releases for LotFP that are being given with some orders? I'm assuming no PDF exists, but I'm curious if they're adventures or supplements or what.
>>97587359It's not "anti-ACKS" to identify how it's barely OSR.
>>97587378Haven't you heard? In order to participate in this thread, you've got to worship that game like it's your personal prophet.We're about five minutes away from him shrieking "Behead those who insult ACKS."
>>97587391I haven't even insulted it yet.
>>97587391He's gonna fatwa you for that.He's got living gods.Doughy fucking retarded losers, but they're gods to him.
It is at least one anon asking ACKS2 questions and for some reason people are butt hurt about it.
>>97587454No one's butthurt about the game. It's just silly to pretend we have to worship it because one guy does.
>>97587454It's just the fishfag again
The OSR clone that I'm playing has "Bandages" listed under items that you can purchase, and it makes sense. They would be a really common thing for adventurers to carry. But what actual in-game, mechanical effect should they have? I was thinking, if someone takes the time after battle to patch you up with a bandage, then you can restore 1hp, but I think this would be broken.
>>97587454I don't think it's a good game.I also don't consider it an OSR game.I don't think think anyone's stopped you from asking questions about it. If you need to know something, ask, but remember there's a guy who self-admittedly worships its writer so maybe don't ask for opinions.
>>97587480I'd go with "once per combat, restores half an HP per level. rounded up." Handy to have even at high levels, but not remarkably so for a cheap item, and there's no point carrying a wagon full of them.
>>97587492jfc shut up, just because someone doesn't have your irrational hatred of a thing doesn't mean they worship it.
>>97587501And by "once per combat" I mean applied post-combat. You can only bandage your wounds once, so it's not infinite healing. Could rule you can't get your hp above whatever it was at the start of that combat, if you give a shit.>>97587506There's no difference in his diseased mind.
>>97587480Just make them heal an extra 1 HP per day.Or, if patched up after battle and applying at least 10gp worth of medicinal herbs mixed as a poultice, a process that takes at least 10 minutes, then it can heal that 1HP.
>>97587506His word brah. >>97587082But yeah, the less said about the game the better.
>>97587480Does this clone have a name?Regardless of the answer bandages sounds like a bad idea.>>97587492Seething isn't a good look anon.
>>97587521Oh you're actually proper dumb. glhf.
>>97587480Could use them to automatically stabilize a character that is below 0 HP. Only works that one time, lets the character act but encumbered/otherwise bad at shit, can attack or act regularly but has to save vs death to do so.
>>97587521>paying attention to punditposters>taking punditposters seriously>getting furious about itI knew you were dumb, but jfc
>>97587533We're making fun of him and his living gods. Don't be scared, he can't actually fatwa you. The worst he can do is call you fishfag.
>>97587538>thinks it's possible for anyone to take him seriouslyWho's dumb?
>>97587533>>97587538>>97587546You're all dumb now shut up about Acks.
>ask for advice>1-3 anons actually answer>8+ posts shitflinging about ACKS in generalI hate that one dedicated shitposter can ruin threads on slow boards
>>9758755830ish% for a fishweir weaving pickle jar isn't bad really.
>>97587558I think the trigger was the guy claiming everyone here loves it. Trying to speak for a crowd that can speak for itself is not usually a good move.
>>97587454>peopleIts like you've never seen Fishfag samefag before.
>>97587372I think it's four of them and they're adventures, yes. Prince reviewed #2 IIRC.
>>97587568>claims everyone loves it>samefags spam>uhhhh anons shouldn't speak for everyone in this general>(next step of my cunning plan: start wailing about 2e being OSR again and the thread consensus not existing)It's stunning the kind of shit you think is clever, I can't help but crack up at how dumb and predictable you are. Fuck along now.
Jesus christ this guy just can't stop shitposting.>>97587533>>97587538>>97587542Is he always like this?
>>97587593What part of do not pay attention to punditposters is not clear.
>>97587501>>97587515>>97587536I'm gonna write the ruling as follows:"Bandages are clean, rolled linens, which when used are enough to prevent blood loss for a character's wounds if properly applied in a timely manner. They are inexpensive and easy to make. Once, after a combat encounter or an event where a character takes physical damage, they may apply bandages to recover 1hp. Doing so require 2 turns to stabilize the wound, wrap it, and steel yourself after injury, unless you are assisted, (In which case it only takes 1 ten-minute turn.) Using bandages in this way can only be done on any given character once per session. Bandages may also be used to stabilize injured NPCs you encounter, and if used within the round that a character is downed due to cutting or piercing injury, may allow them a save vs death to stabilize and remain alive yet unconscious. Lastly, corpses wrapped in 10gp worth of bandages extend their availability for resurrection by 50%."
>>97587627All I know is now I got this song stuck in my head.https://youtu.be/i_K36y-iLUk?si=v7spgvCVT1wy3j4k
>>97587645I just wanna say... Every time someone posts some random song I've never heard of in /tg/... It's always a banger. This is is pretty catchy.
I'm not sure I understand which saving throws are supposed to represent what dangers. Death/poison makes sense. Wands is for like stuff that shoots at you? Paralysis is like, your physical resistance? Dragon Breath is your ability to dodge area of effect. And Spells are just your natural or learned resistance to magic?Wait... Now that I've actually typed it out it all makes sense and I feel stupid.
>>97587671>Now that I've actually typed it out it all makes sense and I feel stupid.Happens.Paralysis is also save vs petrification in most editions, while sometimes being saves against things forcing your character to move (strong winds/water torrents).
>>97577746You've misread.
>>97587082>Kevin Crawford and RPG Pundit are OSR living godslollmao, evenAlexander Macris kinda is the spiritual heir to Gygax, though. Minus the cocaine and hookers.
>>97587172>>97587178>Fishfag posting comments in twos as usualKill yourself, by the way
>>97587378>>97587391>Fishfag always comments in twosKill yourself
>>97588078>>97588087Once on his laptop, once on his phone, that's how you know he's several different people, you brosr/trollcow/ackshill/discord raid!
>>97587372Yeah, I got the one you get when ordering from Europe. I only flipped through it, it's an adventure, but I wouldn't say it's an especially good one. Anything else you would like to know?
>>97587627Probably a bit too much work for 1HP. Unless you only want them to be relevant during the first 1-2 levels.
>>97587671There's no element of "physical" or "dodge", it's deliberately agnostic as to how the effect is resisted. Gygax is explicit about this in the DMG. As for the save vs. wands, it's not a projectiles in any way, it's simply a separate save from magic in order to nerf the spellcasting devices slightly. Other than that, you got it.
>>9758762720 minutes to apply bandages for 1 hp seems like a bad deal and a bit weird. Fun idea about the resurrection part, I like that. I would be tempted as a dm to add some small % of returning as a mummy under the wrong circumstances.
>>97588073Alex, you're embarassing yourself.
>>97588078>>97588087>post has four replies>post has one reply>"there's a pattern if you squint!"Why is the ACKS defense force so fucking dumb.
I literally just found out that the whole racism/sexism in OSR is mostly bullshit propaganda from WotC and modernist culture war shit. You guys were fucking right...>First player depicted in an illustration in D&D is a woman>Rules for female characters were always optional and not as overt as everyone suggests>early convention photographs and photos of earliest players in the late 70s show a large number of black players>Earliest depictions on black characters or people of color in the books all depict them wearing medieval European armor like everyone else, yet it's understated and tasteful. They aren't tribal stereotypes or overt images that are like "LOOK AT ME AN INDEPENDANT BLACK WOMAN WE WAS KNIGHTS AND SHEEEEIT"Are you telling me this whole time this shit has been exaggerated for the sake of virtue signaling?
>>97589204As a professional woman hater and competitive level racist; it's all and always has been modern culture war bullshit to kill competition for their own products.The best method to remove competition in the current climate is smearjobbing, because even if the product is better than yours, if you can make the average Californioid scream 'Yikes, that's not heckin' poggers wholesomechungus. I can't even' soon as it's mentioned?Doesn't matter if you're selling dogshit.This corporaist faggotry happens to align with the interests of the weenie hut post modern cult in that they need there to be no alternatives to their bullshit since otherwise people will go elsewhere.The world they want is one where you can't even imagine an alternative or think a thought that's not in line with their bullshit.
>>97589204>I literally just found out that the whole racism/sexism in OSR is mostly bullshit propaganda from WotC and modernist culture war shit.What did you expect, Anon?
>>97588888>>97589138Kill yourself, fishfag.
>>97587372Do PDFs of any of these nameless adventures exist?
>>97589204Virtue signaling for market share, yes. WotC doesn't give a shit about any of that stuff sincerely, but they do give a shit about preventing competition from their own older products.
>>97591126WotC has a vested interest in the OSR looking good. They're the single biggest distributor of OSR material, being the rights holder of every edition of D&D and every official adventure as well, alongside directly running one of the largest markets for OSR material, the DM's Guild (which lets them scrape a huge percentage off of the idiots who sell their original OSR modules/compatible material on that platform). Any time anyone buys a legal non-secondhand copy of official D&D material, they're the one's profiting, and that means quite a lot of PDFs they sell on places like Drivethru RPG with no expense on their part.They also recognize Old D&D has an impact on New D&D. They want to preserve the "Kids on Bikes" vision of older D&D that Stranger Things promoted because that turned into huge sales for 5e. They understand that with the laypeople often confusing any RPG with D&D, they really can't attack the image of any of their competitors without it backfiring on them.The "OSR are a bunch of racists/misogynists" probably comes less from a conspiracy and more of just some people in the OSR being racists/misogynists. When Gygax Jr. said some stuff, it wasn't WotC that dumped him, it was the new TSR that said "he is too racist/anti-trans for us." The guys on twitter posting "return to tradition" D&D memes as not-so-subtle politics are the ones who are encouraging an "OSR=right wing, Everything Else=Left wing" mentality, and that means absorbing the right's reputation for being racists/misogynists, often happily.Were it up to WotC, they would probably have done their best to promote an "All RPGs are Left, Bigots don't play RPGs" message (partly because they don't just own D&D but a good number of other RPGs), which is something they have enough control over the market (alongside other virtue signalling game corporations) to attempt. Saying "People who are obsessed with products in our catalog have started a racist boy's club" is not a good look.
>>97591603I voted for Bernie and agree with this.
>>97591603>Meanwhile the realitySo not wherever you are? >>97591610You are probably not old or smart enough to vote.
>>97591635I am 41.
>>97591770Oji-san I kneel
>>97591603I'm not saying the "OSR is for racists/misogynists". I'm saying the reason people say that is because they've interacted with people who present themeslves as representatives of the OSR and also happened to be racist/misognist/etc. Much more reasonable to believe that then to try and blame WotC for attacking their own profits.>OSR, like many sub-cultures, doesn't have a right winger heckin' racist problem.It kind of does. Less that the OSR is solely composed of them, more of just a loud minority trying to lay claim to the whole movement and also being the kind of faggots who need to try and make everything political.There's no need to tell me the Left sucks and their politics don't belong in games. At the same time, the Right's politics also don't belong, and these games don't belong in political discussions at all, whether directly or by proxy.It's not a big problem, but it's still a problem, just like the OSR also has a left winger problem, though it manifests less often as "I play the real D&D and the real D&D is racist" and more "Oopsie-doodle, that wasn't olive oil you put on your avocado toast rations, that was All-love oil and you gained 3 Kinsey points and you're feeling hot AND bothered."
>>97591797Both of those are the product of google/twitter/facebook and their narrative-pushing machine, which divides people into camps built on emotial clickbait appeals in order to drive engagement to increase ad revenue. Basically the corpos have built a machine to make people stupid, and it's very successful and profitable. Gamergate was like the test run.
>>97591834You failed to post any facts, retard. All you have is nogames nutsack gargling
>>97591834NTA, but the existence of left-wing douchebags does not stop the existence of right-wing douchebags. They both exist, how about we stop wasting space talking about them?
>>97591834Oh fuck, it's you again with that debunked bullshit.I had a feeling this thread was going to go to shit right around >>97589204, and now I know why. https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/%20https%3A%2F%2Farchive.is%2F0Nv3c/Damn. I was just about to say to >>97591817 "Yeah, corpos are bad, but let's go back to talking games and hopefully not give any of those stupid people you're talking about a platform."
My online racist friends run more fun games more consistently than my shit lib friends. Also the shit libs like really gamist and/or PBA games.
>>97591935You don't have any friends or games, dumbass.
>>97588073>Alexander Macris kinda is the spiritual heir to Gygax,Pffff HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
>>97591797>that was All-love oil and you gained 3 Kinsey points and you're feeling hot AND botheredThat honestly sounds funny though. And you can't fool me into thinking that sort of thing doesn't belong in OSR, not when the girdle of masculinity/femininity exists and Tomb of Horrors has a whole sex change trap and everything.
>>97592243Where's the lie?
>>97591797Check it out >>97592290is saying >I play the real D&D and the real D&D is queer" Its the same sort of fuckhead, just a different flavour of retarded.
>>97592759No, he's saying that a cursed item that turns people gay could be an amusing addition to an OSR game. He's not saying the only correct way to play is to include it and that anyone who doesn't isn't playing real D&D. Do you understand the difference? It's a pretty big one.And, I'm pretty sure the Left would actually have a fit over a "cursed" oil just like they had one about the "cursed" girdle, and just using it like a trap on a PC is barely the most offensive thing you could do with something like that. A Vladimir Harkonnen-style villain who manufactures that oil (among others) and uses it in his various perversions (including raping slaves who've been administered that oil just so he can delight in their unwanted arousal and moral degeneration) would be the kind of thing the Left might find quite questionable and is probably already in some dumb LotFP adventure somewhere.
>>97591548>WotC has a vested interest in the OSR looking good.That might seem ligical to you, but in practice, it's not how they operate. Maybe they'd be smarter to do what you describe, but they don't. They oppose Chud D&D, not vocally but by their actions and in the way they describe 5e to contrast with earlier editions.>which lets them scrape a huge percentage off of the idiots who sell their original OSR modules/compatible material on that platformThis is exactly why no OSR material worth mentioning is sold via that platform, and your claim that it's one of the largest markets for OSR material is wrong.>The "OSR are a bunch of racists/misogynists" probably comes less from a conspiracy and more of just some people in the OSR being racists/misogynists.Nope. It comes from Wizards having content standards that no self-respecting creator would abide by — some woketard, yes, but others are just the usual 2e-style bowdlerization for family friendliness. Even inoffensive guys like Melan, Kutalik or Ben Mazirian wouldn't accept that shit, let alone someone like Raggi, and that makes the entire OSR field a threat to WotC: independence means uncontrollability, and they want *control* of their D&D more than anything. DM's Guild, their attempt to kill VTTs besides their own, the OGL revocation fiasco, all this stuff is about the same thing, that the WotC (or Hasbro, maybe) suits can't tolerate creators being outside their ecosystem.Yes, when 5e was first released and especially in the playtest phase, they tried to ride the vitality and creativity of the OSR – that's why they brought in Zak and Big Hinduism. But it ultimately didn't work out, and they renounced that strategy long ago.
>>97592883I understand you think the difference plays out in your ideological favour and you're at best blind to that.
>>97593026I think you, you personally, are responsible for some people being convinced that the OSR is filled with retarded racist misogynists.Hoping to blame it on WotC sounds like you hoping to avoid the blame I am pretty sure should be put squarely on you, because every fourth thing you say makes me think there's something wrong with you and every fifth is confirming there is, though less you being racist/misogynist and mostly just you being retarded with the racism/misogynism(?) more closely held to the chest.>This is exactly why no OSR material worth mentioning is sold via that platform, There's quite a few books that buyfags would buy. You know, some obscure titles such as "Every D&D book and adventure ever written."
My players have recently gotten involved in some inter-planetary space shenanigans. Is there a book of sci-fi content that's compatible with medieval fantasy OSR content? Like, can my group's level 6 Fighter learn how to fly a space craft?
>>97593225That's literally spelljammer. They have a whole bunch of "space" ships and all with compatible stats, including how much damage the ship's weapons would do to a person if that Fighter decided a sword wasn't the appropriate solution.
Anyone plays or have played Vagabond? Seems like an expansion is coming out with a new class, this being a Monk preview.
>>97593238Can you do spelljammer without the "Oceanic boats in space" aesthetic? (Sorry if that's an ignorant question, I've only ever looked at the surface of Spelljammer and not read into it.)Does it have things like laser guns, robots, and aliens in it?
>>97593238>spelljammerIt's shite
>>97593370More importantly, it's not OSR.
I am trying to wrap my head around Exploration mechanics in a dungeon.I understand that a dungeon turn is 10 minutes/rounds.Is the idea that they move 10 times normal speed, or is the default assumption moving the normal movement rate over the 10 minutes and assuming they are covering perception/stealth/mapping/etc?If it's the former, if you end up with 600 feet and come across a 30 foot long room, a 60 foot hallway, and a 50 foot long chamber would one Dungeon turn have you move through all of those?If you spend a Dungeon turn searching a room, do you say "There are 90 squares, one turn lets you check X squares" or is it one turn per square?Just trying to understand these parts
>>97592669>the default assumption moving the normal movement rate over the 10 minutes and assuming they are covering perception/stealth/mapping/etc?This is correct. They're moving very slowly because of these exact reasons.>If you spend a Dungeon turn searching a room, do you say "There are 90 squares, one turn lets you check X squares" or is it one turn per square?I assume your playing B/X? If thats so then a search is a 10'x10' area (so 4 squares) per searcher per turn.With that being said it's a fairly common house rule to bump up search speeds to, for example, allow for 2 or 3 searches in a turn. I think AD&D had something like that.
>>97593504Meant to reply to you: >>97593403I should probably go to bed.
>>97591895>debunked bullshitLmao nobody has ever debunked one iota of that article. They just screamed like chimps and tried ot bury it precisely *because* there's no deboonking it.
>>97593109>seething it up big style for no reasonMaybe some other general would be a better fit for you, perhaps one on >>>/lgbt/ for example.
>>97593238>spelljammer>>97568805 and it's also a genuinely poor setting. I think it's the worst-selling of all the 2e-era settings, except Jakandor that nobody even knew existed.
>>97593225>Is there a book of sci-fi content that's compatible with medieval fantasy OSR content? Like, can my group's level 6 Fighter learn how to fly a space craft?There have been various SF or sci-fantasy OSR games, and there's the famous module S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks which involves sci-fi elements in a fantasy setting, but I don't think there's anything directly like what you're asking for, like a sourcebook expansion adding rules for learning to fly spaceships. I vaguely remember awhile back an anon was talking about integrating some Traveller rules with D&D or something to allow PCs to be pilots and such, but I don't think he ever ended up posting his system.Personally I'm not sure I would handle it with any kind of proficiency system at all, I'd be more prone to say that if you put the time in you now know how to do this the same way adventurers are assumed to be competent riders, swimmers etc.
>>97593358Yes. A lot of the ships are very spaceship-y, and really are basically "spaceships but fagged up (like being semiorganic and shaped like animals)" and you can defag them pretty easily. Instead of an Elvish Butterfly Vessel, you just call it a Space Fighter, an Illithid Nautilus Vomiter becomes a Gun Ship, etc.
>>97593358Spelljammer is actually kinda light on robots. Which I think is a little odd, because the setting has so much rampant slavery that it's obvious that labor is highly valued. It does have them, just like most D&D settings have golems of some kind.And it has a lot of "alien" races, with a lot of them either slaves or slavers now that I think of it. But, you can really just use any D&D monster, put it on a planet, and call it an alien.
Has anyone ran a dungeon so massive that travel within was measured in days instead of minutes and hours? Does this concept work well?
>>97593749Dwarrowdeep is approaching that. It's four days or so to cross from one side to the other.
>>97593403>I am trying to wrap my head around Exploration mechanics in a dungeon.What game?>I understand that a dungeon turn is 10 minutes/rounds.AD&D: Yes. B/X: no.>Is the idea that they move 10 times normal speed, What's a "normal" speed? What game? Any way, no. They move the distance the rules say they do: 120 feet per turn if unencumbered both in AD&D and in B/X.>or is the default assumption moving the normal movement rate over the 10 minutes and assuming they are covering perception/stealth/mapping/etc?Again? What game? Again, there is no assumption. Just a rule.>If it's the former, if you end up with 600 feet600 feet per turn??lolwutWhat game are you talking about and how did you come up with that number. >If you spend a Dungeon turn searching a room, do you say "There are 90 squares, one turn lets you check X squares" or is it one turn per square?Depends on the game. AD&D and B/X have different rules. In both, searching speed has nothing to do with movement speed.
>>97591834Why did this post get deleted?
>>97592669Macris please stop, and I say this as someone that loves many aspects of ACKS.
I found funny how a 10ft Basilisks is 6HD and a glorified chicken Cockatrice is 5HD (more or less) in most versions of the game.
>>97595220Many people agree with that anon. He's basically earned the title of Gygax's heir. There really is no game that faithfully embodies Gygaxian D&D than ACKS
>>97595306>He's basically earned the title of Gygax's heir.This is utterly pathetic.Additionally, ACKS rather incarnates a lot of BECMI up to C, which mind it for me is a huge plus even if it triggers meltdowns around here.
Why do you guys treat some boomer who made a game like some sort religious prophet?
>>97595330It's a handful of creeps, and the ACKS guy pretending to know how to comunicate after years of only knowing abuse.Everyone else generally likes their games and appreciates that they made stuff they like more than the stuff from Palladium or Steve Jackson.I wouldn's say someone treats Ronald Macdonald as a prophet if they prefer MacDonalds from the options around them and have justifications for that.
>>97595330Most people here don't. One guy here in particular does and he might be the dumbest retard on this board.
>>97595306Literally no one, not even you, believes that. You seem to be saying it just to try and get people to cringe at you.
>>97595386I think it's fair to guess that it's the usual suspect (For there is only one) trying a new approach to cause shit and arguments.
>>97595367You're talking about the "play be upon him anon"? I'm pretty sure it's a joke, an exaggerated reflection of people who talk about Gygax like he was the devil. I know that sarcasm can be hard to detect in written form, but that always seemed obvious to me.
>>97595874
>>97595874>I'm pretty sure it's a jokeYes, and everyone who's not retarded knows he's joking. Which is why he's now on the retard's enemies list
>>97595874>>97595992Really trying hard to try to perform some kind of "Me acting totally cringe is lol" damage control, eh. Samefag if you must, I don't know why you think that would ever actually make it funny.
I bet this idiot thought True AD&D guy was 100% serious, too
>>97595992>Retard hunts the non-retarded for not being like himGod that explains so much about the situation in this thread.
>ha ha guys my jokes totally funny>I love licking gygax's asshole, getting all that corpse shit on my tongue, mmmm-mmmm-mmmm>don't you think i'm funny guys>guys
>>97596316That's cool and whatever, but that anon is just being mad about people using a definition of OSR that's not his. Which is weird, because even the image he's posting shows that what is or isn't OSR is open to interpretation.
>>97596316>The rule about off topic discussion is board levelFunnily enough the General Rules do not actually contain a clear rule about off-topic posting. You have to creatively interpret GRs 3 or 6, but a straightforward reading of them wouldn’t preclude, say, the discussion of tea in /tg/, or this thread talking about Pathfinder.
would u allow this in ur games?
idea: the reverse riddlethe party comes upon a stone door with an animated face in deep brow-furrowing rumination. instead of asking a riddle in order to pass, the door is attempting to come up with a riddle for a word, but is just a stupid animated door and can't do it himself. each party member (including hirelings) has to come up with a unique line that's not too obvious but still describes the subject of the riddle in a riddlesome way. players are responsible for each line from their hirelings. if the door gets enough satisfying clues for its riddle's answer, it thanks the party and opens for themoptional: blind draw, PCs only. the PCs all write their answers down and present them simultaneously. if there are any repeats the door refuses entry, as that clearly means the clue is too obvious. colluding is forbidden, he wants his answers here and now
>>97596821Yeah 1 in 6 to succeed
>>97595330Never happened. Don't confuse respect for a man and his work with literal worship.>>97596956Seems fun. If it sees play at the table you should post a play report about it.
>>97568691New General>>97597951>>97597951
>>97597952fishfag you fucking retard, the thread is still live. Fuck your hijack.
>>97596956It sounds like something that would happen in a scene in Adventure Time.And if you're gonna do a Reverse Riddle, might as well do a Reverse Dungeon while you're at it.
>>97595278Cockatrice are scary as fuck. Straight up murder chickens.
Guys they completely fucked the Dwarf saves in the X of BX.They counted the "4 levels higher " twice.
>>97598373What are you talking about? They have the best saves of any class in B/X
>>97599088Too good. Death should start at 10. Read OD&D.Somehow they counted the +4 levels twice after a while.
>>97595330It's called a joke. I know you right wingers dont understand humor but it used to be very common on the internetz
>>97598014>the thread is still liveYou need to stop clinging to this outdated horseshit and post a new thread when the old one hits page 5, otherwise this faggot is going to keep getting there first and we have to go through the trouble of spamming it out. Just watch. The jannies don't enforce page 10 anymore.
>>97599699You're implying they have a recognizable and consistent standard, which is fair since you'd expect that of a moderating staff. But if you've been here in the past few months you know there was a very recent period of a few weeks where fishfag was having up to literally dozens of early threads nuked, and any attempt on the part of actual thread members to post their own competing consensus thread was also nuked unless the new thread was posted on page 9 or later. So people have taken to waiting. It appears that "standard" is out the window now, which replaced the previous one of having multiple threads going at once, which lasted a few weeks, and has now been replaced by ... whatever they've decided is happening this week.Trying to race fishfag to the bottom is pointless: it's just going to result in him posting new threads on post 100. You can't reason with a schizo. There's not much point in doing anything other than--hypothetically and as a suggestion, since talking about actual site enforcement is punishable--reporting fishfag hijack threads and waiting until an appropriate time to post the real thread.
>>97599770Okay, I have to admit that the jannies just performed a based action so you have a point.
New Thread:>>97600170>>97600170>>97600170
>>97600155Yeah, I'll eat my words there. Nice to see.>>97600173Thanks, anon.
>>97600173Much obliged for this thread, Anon.
>>97587627>cutting or piercing injuryReal world bandages can be used on contusions, sprains and breaks so why are you excluding bludgeoning weapons and falls? Do you actually plan on tracking the injury type during play and then poll people after a combat to see if they can apply bandages?
I am writing up some stuff for a setting that is basically "FFVII in OSR". The world is sort of similar to the one presented in FFVII, where guns and swords are both viable means of combat, there's a cyberpunk dystopian feel, and robots/aliens exist.My question is how would you get Materia to work in an OSR game?
