Caramelldansen editionPrevious Heresy: >>97674136>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/qdYzem>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/>Thread question:If you could make a new super heavy unit what would you make?
>>97684439>If you could make a new super heavy unit what would you make?Legion Baneblade
>>97684439fellblade variant with a missile barrage batteryalternatively one with a massive torrent flamer
>>97684439>TQ TITAN SIZED DREADNOUGHT
>>97684469>Jovian Dreadnought>Size of a Warhound>Equipped with an Ultra Plasma Bombard and and a Transfiguration Beamer
>>97684459>alternatively one with a massive torrent flamerBoy do I have news for you...
>>97684512>Transfiguration Beamer Nice try Magnus I know Tzeentch bullshit when I see one
>>97684554So it's okay to "convert" matter to energy but "transfiguring" it from one type of matter to another is warp bullshit?Stars do that shit all the time Russ! You'd know that if you'd ever read a book!
>>97684522oh my ligma what the fugg
What are you working on anons? I am doing some basic bitch head swaps with the new Skittles for my traitor mech and also printing a bunch of arvus lighters and landing pads for an event.
>>97684576Some of these guys.
>>97684584If a Night Lord took off his helmet would he die?
>>97684576chainaxe tactical marines now and for the foreseeable futurei made a little reference post it note with some dark tongue sigils for freehanded glyphs on their plate earlier today, at lastlavishing each and every specimen up pretty good i'd like to think with their paintjobs
>>97684588Yes, that NL would most certainly be dead after that.
>>97684592>chainaxe>tactical marines
>>97684280>>97684192>>97684165Maybe the new box-launcher Whirlwind will be the AA rhino? It's all from Epic, right? Though the big drum missile launcher reminds me more about the Scorpius whirlwind.
>>97684592You mean despoilers?
>>97684576based, I used that skull for a WB MoDCurrently working on some traitor XIXth Vet Breachers
>TQ I've always thought the namedropped but never described Bloodhammer Super-Heavy Assault Carrier sounded neat. I guess the name suggests it's a Baneblade hull made into a bigger equivalent to the landraider I think I've come up with a fanzine name that captures what I wanted: "Fires of Heresy"Plus it would let me say:>This mission pack was forged in the Fires of Heresy >The rules for White Scars Outrider on Vincent Black Shadow bike (with Multimelta sidecar) were forged in the Fires of Heresy >The serialised fan fiction IX Legion: Felinid Compliance by A. Fujoshi was forged in the Fires of Heresy Etc.
Still waiting on my DAMN FLESH TEARERS RED, but got the rest of the veterans drybrushed up at least, and I'll probably prime some more stuff tomorrow. How Amazon turns overnight to over a week I do not know. Bet you it'll even burst in the mail too.
>>97684522Is that the same formation grilling template flamer the Warhound titan has?Hardcore
>>97684599The very first journal tactica for 3.0 already re-introduced the Hyperios, an AA Rhino. Just put one of the missile tarantulas on any Rhino you got and you're good to go.
>>97684613Same one the Malcador Infernus has, so I think so?>>97684614>GW encouraging conversionsAre they feeling okay in Nottingham?
>>97684608>I've always thought the namedropped but never described Bloodhammer Super-Heavy Assault Carrier sounded neat. I guess the name suggests it's a Baneblade hull made into a bigger equivalent to the landraiderI'd assume that's to the Baneblade as the Gorgon/Crassus is to the Macharius (or whatever it was called back in 30k). So yeah, you're probably right.
>>97684616Have you been living under a rock? GW repeatedly stated that the journals (and legacies rules for that matter) would include units that encouraged kitbashing and conversions. The saturnine command squad and WB Phraetus also need to be kitbashed/converted.
>>97684563>Stellar fusion changing hydrogen into helium be likeTransformation central!Transformation centralReformation central!Reformation central Transmogrification central!Can you feel it? You're changing you're changing you're changing alright.
>>97684632Okay then GW.Where the fuck are my legacy loadouts for Consuls?
>>97684595oh yeah>>97684603i like to call them marauders1/2.0 'till i die
>>97684588It would be extremely painful
>>97684638Thanks anon. Now I'm imagining Erebus as Dr Facilier
>>97684565LIgma balls
>>97684646You're a big terminator
>>97684652 U>>97684652 U>>97684652 U>>97684652 U
This is my desire
>>97684649I just want an atomantic pavise that goes on something that can move like a Dreadnought.
>>97684662>never talk to me or my sons ever again>>you tell 'em dad!
>>97684616>Are they feeling okay in Nottingham?Anon, most of these have a little box telling the reader that simplest way to create this unit is to spend $200.
>>97684584Fat Sat command squads go hard, mean and very hard to kill.
>>97684439>If you could make a new super heavy unit what would you make?We finally fill out the Baneblade matrix.That aside, something for Mechanicum that isn't knights or titans.
>>97684648Erebus wouldn't ask for consent
>>97684734>That aside, something for Mechanicum that isn't knights or titans.Like GW, you forgot the Ordinati exist
What should command vehicles do besides reserve roll bonuses? The command rhino has the same vox relay the master of signals is carrying around. What should a larger, more impressive command vehicle be capable of, besides having more firepower and a transport capacity?
>>97684755Maybe able to give more than one unit the bonus the MoS can with Vanguard/Line?
Is there too many Legion agnostic Space Marine troops left that need refreshing? Tartaros Termies is an obvious target, but I’m wondering what else?
>>97684755Nothing. It'd just be a bigger, tougher command rhino. Warhammer doesn't have the depth of rules for anything resembling a proper chain of command, not that their ever really is any given that every platoon is apparently led by a 3 star general if you looked at games played
>>97684771>Wanting NuTartarosSomeone get the meme, I don't have it saved
>>97684755The simplest option would be to unlock multiple detachments like an Officer of the Line(x) or having a special detachment like consuls. Taking a command land raider could give you the option to take three detachments to represent it being involved in a major advance/defense, for example.
>>97684576>>97684576I've gotta finish the turrets quickly so I can paint my widgets for Adepticon.
It's kinda of a pity there's no real stormtrooper equivalent. Veletaris are not really the same and I like the weak-yet-good-ap hotshots mixed with special weapons more.
If you can have a bolter/volkite combi weapon surely you can have a volkite/plasma combi weapon as well.
Are the plastic Rapiers any fine for repurposing into Solar Auxilia ones?
>>97684771Mk V 'Heresy' armor, for the heresy
>>97684835Militia grenadiers with the +BS provenance and a variety of alternate weapons
>>97684771Recon marines. If they want to make a specific kit for seekers like how rapier crews are unique now. Scouts too, I suppose. Outrider bikes too, those got ligma models so maybe.
>>97684439Something like the Crassus but for space marines. Big transport capacity with side/rear access points, just a couple guns for suppressing fire, can carry multiple squads. Give it a turret like a remote weapon station instead of sponsons and a pintle option, and an option for a big dozer blade. Call it a pegasus assault transport. I guess that's just lighter mastodon though.
>>97684929I remember one anon here printing off a mini-Mastodon and it looked adorable.
Is there “primary” sources for lore that aren’t the BL novels? Narratives are nice and all, but sometimes I just want an overview of what’s going on in broader strokes.
>>97685106Black books
>>97684614:O true. And Skyfire no longer blocks it from attacking ground targets! May not be "optimal" and only fine against light targets, but I don't feel it's useless. Neat, anon. Thanks for the reminder.>Missile tank lance: 2 Hyperios, 1 Sicarans Arcus
Post minis or you're next
>>97685106Visions of Heresy book.
>>97684662Go even further beyond
>>97685154very good....but not half far enough
>>97685132
>>97685154Is this the new Primaris vehicle from the 11th edition box set?
gob bless garaghak's sewerwas seeking basically an outright shitwash and it is just that, fucking sewage, just the most fetid, disgusting brown that could be asked for. 10/10 contrast tone
>>97685154Put missiles on the missile pods.
>>97684439actually fuck it what i want is an automata-brained superheavy turbotank so coated with guns and armaments that there's barely any hull visiblecapitol imperialis-sized. standalone armageddon machine
>>97684576Finishing my first Despoiler squad. This veterand lad from Terra is the next one.
>>97685132Hey! That's my miniature! But I like how you use it, so take a look at his butt now
So if I used this for one guy, what would cause the most upset: the Heavy Bolter mark, the MkVII arms or the backpack?
>>97685249The arms. Even though they could easily be Mk V or VI arms.Personally I think it's fine.
>>97685249everything there is kosheraquilla plate is largely just refined and formalized heresy pattern armour and there's no real reason why iterations towards the shape of mk.vii wouldn't elapse during the perfidy
>>97684439Praetorian/Centurion Command Squads should be able to take the same legion specific equipment Veterans can.It's bullshit that Vet Tacs can take Banestrike Bolters but apparently they're magically off-limits to the same Veterans if they're part of the command squad
>>97685245In proper NL fashion I stole it, nice paintjob tho.
>>97685249MkVII arms look just like mkvi so it's ok.
If you could add one Prime Benefit either for your legion/army or as a universal, what would it be and why?For me it'd be:>Command Vehicle: This Prime Advantage may only be selected for a Warlord, High Command or Command slot. One Transport or Heavy Transport in the same Detachment or linked Auxiliary Detachment increases its transport capacity by 1 or, if the unit that fills the Prime Slot contains a model with the Bulky (X) special rule, by an amount equal to X (if there are multiple Bulky (X) models in said unit, the controlling player must choose one. This Prime Advantage may only be chosen once and may not be used to increase a units transport capacity by more than 50% of its base total.Because sometimes it'd be nice to fit something like a Saturnine Praetor and a 5 man squad of Cataphractii in a Land Raider or take Lorgar with a full squad of Phraetus in a Spartan
>>97684439>TQStormhammer-esque fellblade.
>>97685393forgot my pic
>>97685396ooo momma i like that more than i probably ought to
>>97685350well the ruleswriters are retards so
Hello guys, I'm thinking on buying the skitarii battlegroup and the mechanicum battleforce to start out. Is that along some admech tech-priests an acceptable force to play with?
>>97685350>>97685435Honestly GW should have just added a 'Veteran' subtype that does nothing except act as a keyword to easily unlock Legion options that are rare enough that not everyone can get them (such as Carsoran Power Axes) but not so rare that only characters get them (such as Terranic Greatswords).That and some designer commentary in the rules would really cut-down on bloat, instead of needing to FAQ 'can special legion bolters take bayonets (and by the way, fuck you GW it's dumb they can't) there'd be a designer's note under the option saying "this is intended/not intended to also apply to XYZ"
>>97685389>If you could add one Prime Benefit either for your legion/army or as a universal, what would it be and why?Teleportarium: This Prime Advantage may only be selected for a unit with the words "Terminator" on its Unit Name. All models in the unit gain the Deep Strike Special Rule. Do note that characters upgraded with this Prime Advantage confer Deep Strike to any Terminator unit they join, and Terminator squads upgraded with this Prime Advantage grant Deep Strike to any Terminator character that joins them.Because Terminators should be able to teleport. By making it a Prime Advantage, it cannot be spammed, but at least it is available.It wouldn't hurt to modify the Deepstrike (and Drop Pod's Deepstrike) rules too. Single squad per turn beginning on turn 2, and can't melee until turn 3 of a 4-turn game? Get outta here! Combine the better parts of 1.0's and 2.0's deepstrike.
>>97685350>they're magically off-limits to the same Veterans if they're part of the command squadThey get it tho :^)
>>97685480>This Prime Advantage may only be selected for a unit with the words "Terminator" on its Unit Name.Why do you hate Inner Circle Knights Cenobium, Ebon Keshig, Huscarls, Crimson Paladins, Deliverers, Dominators, Atramentar, Red Butchers and Phraetus Anointed anon?Jokes aside typing out that list made me realise a generic 'Terminator' subtype would have also been a good idea on James' part>>97685485Alpharius, us SoH are already cucked out of having generic Banestrike termies due to the Justaerin calling dibs first, this is not the time to gloat.
>>97684576This looks awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgNoS6wuSRY
The Beta-Garmon war is kino as fuck and king shit. Probably one of my favourite parts of all of Warhammer and I'm glad GW focused upon it so much (a novel, short story, made it a campaign in 3 different rules systems etc). I wonder if they'll do anything else with it, or set anything else on Beta-Garmon.
>>97685556based
>>97685556>sprawling, nearly-without-peer campaign orchestrated for pretty much the express end of culling the magnitude of forces on either side that would otherwise converge on terra and entirely annihilate the planet in their going at one anothergrim shit and i love it tootonally it beats out even the attempted compliance of sol in some aspects. utter woodchipper for its own sake and pyrrhic by design. peak warhams
Did anyone actually like this boring as fuck fucker? He suuuuucked and his stories were either cringe, boring, dumb or any combo of the 3.
>>97685249Considering that even people who stirred up shitstorm on people not doing 30k right used them, don't think there's much to complain. Especially now that all 30k arms are more or less MkVII style.
>>97684439>If you could make a new super heavy unit what would you make?Fellblade. Except it has a boxy turret more in the style of the falchion or ascalon, and two big titan grade miniguns as the weapon. Think something like the punisher but scaled up appropriately (also theres two of them side by side like on the fellblade accelerator cannon). It fires like 30 autocannon shots with suppressive 2 from the main gun.
>>97685769I remember that guy, the one that would never post his models claiming people would connect them to his instagram and shitted up entire threads with inane opinions that, in my eyes at least, marked him as a troll.
>>97685499Atramentar (and contekar) already have deep strike built in, its one of their USPs.>>97685480Dumb and bad. Take a warmonger if you want. Theres already terminators that have deep strike built in, and they pay for it by being suboptimal at straight combat compared to normal terminators. also most armies lack a way to give normal terminators (shock assault) a prime slot, so you would only have it taken on command squads, its also a way to circumvent the cost you would otherwise have to pay to deep strike saturnines and is thus double dumb (especially since it confers to characters)
>>97685798>Fellblade. Except it has a boxy turret more in the style of the falchion or ascalon, and two big titan grade miniguns as the weapon.
>>97685798Something like:Aerondight Rotary accelerator cannon(ascalon, falchion and fellblade are swords, so I guess thats the theme?) R48" FP30 S7(8?), AP4, D2. Breaching(6+) (5+?), suppressive(2). >>97685841Basically. Except it has a turret rather than being centerline mounted, and trades the transport capacity for more dakka. Less "superheavy IFV" and more "dedicated guntank".
>>97685841Tbf the Fellblade is just a Spess Muhreen BanebladeSo this'd be the Fellord? Fell Lord? Felllord?
>>97685848Fellblades are named after weapons. Glaive, Fellblade, Falchion, Ascalon (sword of st george).So it would be a weapon of some sort, scimitar could work if it wasnt taken for jetbikes. Claymore? Flamberge?
>>97685841Even cheapskate guard have that>whopping 20 seconds of being able to fireNo one in 40K ever wonders where all the ammo for these massive guns would be stored
>>97685845>Except it has a turretBut Falchion and Ascalon don't have turrets, they got casemates. B&S makes alternative turrets for baneblades along with miniguns for them. Pic related is a smaller turret meant for the baneblade hull (you cut the top of the superstructure and slit the plate under the turret on there). There's a large turret as well, which mounts on a plate that replaces the whole baneblade superstructure. I think it might go on top of the fellblade hull as well.>>97685848Considering none of the other legion super-heavies use the two word naming convention, I suspect it might just be named after some bladed weapon, either a weapon type (glaive, falchion) or a mythical weapon (ascalon).
Yea, thats basically what I want. A fellblade version of this thing. Except instead of bolters it has an autocannon minigun.
>>97685883>But Falchion and Ascalon don't have turretsI know, but the fellblade does. I just mean I want it aesthetically similar to the falchion and ascalon in terms of being boxy, rather than the smooth dome top of the fellblade and glaive. Maybe with that little "gun shield" they have too since that thing is pretty. And yea, that sort of turret is basically what im thinking of. Maybe add a big ammo compartment on the back sorta like on the punisher and kratos.
>>97685873>whopping 20 seconds of being able to fireNow that weird. About what the A10 has. M163 VADS has double that, but can only fire in max 6-7 second bursts to avoid overheating.
>>97685894I imagine titan tier bolt shells are pretty damn big
>>97685718Butthurt SoH detected LMAO
Hear me out: shotgun tank.Its a tank with a titan grade shotgun on top. High strength, bad AP, high damage, comes with shock(stun) and a lot of shots.
>>97685908Biggest real life rotary cannon caliber I can find is the 37mm T250. I can imagine vulcan mega-bolters probably being somewhere around 50 to 75mm. Since it's suppose to be a bolt weapon, the projectiles are likely self-propelled with a small primary charge, which is why the guns have such short barrels.
anyone have the Journal Tactica - Skitarii, Steel Hand Of Mars pdf?
It seems I don't have Ruin Of The Salamanders for LI. Anyone able to toss me it?
>>97685964>have such short barrels.They dont necessarily. We only see a small part of the barrel, but we dont know where the trigger mechanism is.
>>97686006You can see the ejection port on the Macharius variant. It also doesn't make sense to keep the barrels fully inside the housing, since it negates a lot of the cooling effect such weapons need.
>>97686006>>97686037It's a mega BOLTER so the shells are still rocket propelled which means they don't necessarily require a long barrel.Also asking for sense and logic in a 40k design? When the mecharius has most of its weight on the back where the least amount of track connects to the ground?
>>97684632The Skitarii one tells you to kitbash with necromunda minis too
>>97684614Is there a version with the other missiles?
>>97686222>When the mecharius has most of its weight on the back where the least amount of track connects to the ground?Damn, not a treadhead but can't unsee now
>>97685473They don't need to do that. All they'd have to do is add those weapons to the officer equipment list, like how alchem flamers are available to death guard, and just like every past edition, they don't do it on purpose because fuck you goyim buy the special legion unit.
how often do people paint SW like 40k ones instead of standard grey?
>>97686417I hope not the baby greyish blue looks like trash.
>>97686417ugly ass frostmourne looking shit
>>97686417The only 30k spessh wolf player in my group has them in the standard 30k scheme.
>>97684576building the imperialis terrain box. here are some shield generators
>>97686667You're gonna clean those nubs right
>>97685499;__; true. Then I re-word it to say...dammit how do I include both Terminator squads and Cenobium knights in the same list without specifically naming them? Units are no longer "equipped" with terminator armour - that's just what they are now!Luckily Huscarls, Crimson Paladins, Deliverers, and Phraetus Anointed all have native Deepstrike already (Atramentar is a Prime itself). As for Ebon Keshig, Dominators, Red Butchers, they're all kind of disgraced units. So the real issue is adding "Terminator squad" to those names, actually. Without terminator as equipment or unit type, only their Unit Name marks them.>>97685807>Atramentar (and contekar) already have deep strike built in, its one of their USPs.Atramentrar are a different, better Prime yeah. NL would be better off with their legion-specific Prime most of the time. Such is that legion. Though Teleport would still allow you to attach characters to a teleporting unit, while Atramentar drop on their own, unsupervised.As for the Termie units with native deepstrike, then you'll be able to deepstrike them with a character while the unit itself takes Master Sergeant or Logistical.Because I believe deepstrike should be available to characters, and it's RETARDED that the only way a Saturnine Centurion gets to deepstrike is with a Saturnine Praetor CHAPERON. It's the worst thing ever.You yourself point out that many armies lack Shock Assault prime slots. Well now your Termie Characters can solve it! You're welcome.>WarmongersA Consul that only exists because the writers refuse to let terminators deepstrike like they always have been able to. To keep their niche, let the Aetheric Splicer allow fully ordered charging out of deepstrike.Because I shall be allowing deepstrikes make disordered charges (they will scatter and be prone to mishaps to balance)
>>97686880>To keep their niche, let the Aetheric Splicer allow fully ordered charging out of deepstrike.Beyond retarded.
>>97686883Fact: Terminator armour should deepstrike. It always deepstrikes. Only in 30k, where teleportariums are not relics and ships are built with them, do they not deepstrike.
>>97686037>It also doesn't make sense to keep the barrels fully inside the housingIt's ok they got AC bro :^)
>>97686880>Atramentrar are a different, better Prime yeahThe main benefit of the prime is deep strike. Contekar and the flay clade both also have deep strike built in, which is why both of them are undertuned in terms of raw killing power relative to other terminators of their cost. >better off with the legion primeyou just made the meaningful part of the legion prime a generic "everyone can take it" option, except better, because the current legion prime does not confer to characters (because primes do not confer to characters).>Because I believe deepstrike should be available to characters, and it's RETARDED that the only way a Saturnine Centurion gets to deepstrike is with a Saturnine Praetor CHAPERONOh no! You have a hard time mitigating the main balancing factor of the most cost-effective melee units in the game (low mobility)! How terrible! Clearly saturnines should be able to teleport easily because its not like "theyre hard to get into position" is their main downside and what allows them to be so powerful in other regards! Free AP3 flamers and 4++ 3w terminators for all!>fully ordered charging out of deep strikeOh, youre just legitimately mentally disabled. I see now. "yea so anyways we should have a consul that lets you make guaranteed free charges for literally any unit in the game"
>>97686301Gonna do like the EU and "monitor the situation"
>>97686914Yes. Because in a game where everyone has terminators and there are countless variants both vanilla and legion specific, limiting deep strike allows for specific units to be given a niche or made to stand out (as opposed to others, that have more combat power). Restricting access to deep strike "innately" and then having it be limited to either legion specific characters (abbadon, sevatar and his teleport homer) or legion specific units is a clear and purposeful design choice which allows for more design space than just "who kills shit goodest".
>>97686914I think it is more of a 40k conceit, where SMs are shock troops, that terminators are expected to deepstrike, rather than being the tip of the spear of an overall assault that you see with SoH, IH, IF.
>>97686941>You have a hard time mitigating the main balancing factor of the most cost-effective melee units in the game (low mobility)!Saturnines have barrage weapons, they can already work without mobility. But it shouldn't be restricted to a Praetor.>Ackshually Atramentar is worseGet Impact (I) - the best Impact possible - or bring a character. Both viable choices. A choice non-NL don't get.>Warmonger = Guaranteed charges out of deepstrikes>Deepstrikes that may scatter into walls or away from targets, and Voxes no longer help>Deepstrikes that kill any model that telefrags into a wall>Deepstrikes that get auto-Supressed should anyone die, no test necessary>"Guaranteed"You say it as if 100 pt Dreadclaws didn't exist and allowed exactly the very same deepstrike charge you fear, but a turn earlier and without those issues. Go buy a lottery ticket, buddy. Surely lucks on (You)r side
>>97686981For what its worth "in the lore" teleportation has always been associated with terminators. But that not being the case in the gameplay of HH isnt some quirk or issue, its part of what makes the terminator unit design work. Theyre the strongest and most durable things around, but theyre slow and require investment into expensive transports.
>>97686990>Saturnines have barrage weaponsNo-one cares about their plasma bombards. Their best shooting weapon is the particle shredder. You are not taking saturnine command squads for their plasma bombards either. >But it shouldn't be restricted to a Praetor.It absolutely should. You should not be able to just drop a saturnine command squad onto a point without any further investment. >Get Impact (I) - the best Impact possible - or bring a character. Both viable choicesYou are not taking prime terminators (or your characters paragon of battle prime) for impact(I) on weapons that are going 2nd anyways into everything except a mirror copy of those weapons. You are taking it to save 400pts worth of spartan and put terminators up the field. A choice everyone else gets now.
>>97686990>>Deepstrikes that may scatter into walls or away from targets, and Voxes no longer help>>Deepstrikes that kill any model that telefrags into a wall>>Deepstrikes that get auto-Supressed should anyone die, no test necessaryDeep strikes do not scatter. Suppression does not stop charges (and its on wound, not death).
>>97686975Some say Contekar are toned down to make room for their deepstrike. I say they aren't worse, just different. And I point out that being a Fear 1 unit with up to 15 Heavy Flamers that deepstrike is niche enough. They can afford being equipped with mere WS5 Shred 6 power sword equivalents.>>97686981>>97686993Terminators are the tip of the spear with all legions, really. Eh, i've just always seen them as the teleport unit. Even with that Prime, you'd still only have one teleport unit most of the time. Like many SoH do, but without a FnP5 WS7 Abaddon.
>>97686993I think with the advent of powerfully armed and armored transports other than raiders, and the higher points expectation, account for that.It also matches the lore, where terminators often are fielded as part of an assault, rather than being saved for critical junctions.
>>97687022>I say they aren't worse, just differentAnd you would be wrong. They are, as a killing unit, objectively worse. They are that way because they can deep strike. Because the ability to place them wherever you want on the battlefield without the usual consideration for terminator logistics would have been too much if they were an elite-terminator level threat. You could not give cenobium deep strike and have them be balanced as they are. >And I point out that being a Fear 1 unit with up to 15 Heavy Flamers that deepstrike is niche enough."you can take lots of an undertuned unit" is not an argument for that units strength. You could instead put those points into better things, slots are not a premium, points are. Contekar ARE usable, but their use revolves around the fact that they - rather uniquely among terminators - can deep strike. That NL - rather uniquely among legions - can put a terminator unit anywhere on the battlefield to threaten soft targets (even with a character attached) and without the usual downsides other legions would have to go through to do it (warmonger DS and its limitations) is why those units and their prime works. That is why contekar flay clade are a unit that isnt an affront to god, despite being tartaros terminators at a 5ppm premium. Because they have built in deep strike and deep strike is an extremely powerful rule.
>>97687014>No-one cares about their plasma bombardsDouble bombards are faturnines best loadout
>>97686990>but a turn earlier and without those issuesFor one thing "100pts" is not a negligible amount. For another, a dreadclaw is a lot more limited than deep strike (provided you can charge out of it). Adding +50% to the cost of your 5 man terminator unit to allow for a charge they will probably fail (disordered charge from a transport, not really ideal) is a pretty big deal actually. Dreadclaws are good, they are not "free deep strike" good.
What's a good way of visually indicating a Toxiferran Flamer?
>>97686930Water cooled rotary cannons are a thing, thought even they tend to have the barrels external.
>>97687092Different nozzle and tank.I've seen someone that used the tanks from the primaris plasma dudes for their toxiflamers, and it is visually different enoughs for the table.
>>97687092A flamer with a green barrel instead of a red oneYou DO paint your flamers red, right anon?
>>97687018Anon, this is a "would". Indeed currently deepstrikes do none of that...but I wish they did. Am I saying this right? I want deepstrikes to both scatter and suffer mishaps (like they ALWAYS did), and allow charging.We had deepstrike charges in 2.0 with daisy chains. That was bad. Deepstrikers should arrive in a ball - concentric rings around the first model.>But they couldn't charge back in 1.0Yes. WHAT IF THEY COULD. We've had:1. Scatter deepstrikes with no melee, that deploy in a ball2. Scatter deepstrikes with melee, that can daisy chain3. Scatterless deepstrikes with no melee, that deploy as a ball more or lessWe've never tried Scatter deepstrikes with melee that deploy as a ball. What if we did?
>>97687118>That was badCorrect. Deep strike charging is bad, especially as a universal rule. The existence of deep strike charging is why the overtuned interceptors of 2e were necessary.
>>97687059>despite being tartaros terminators at a 5ppm premium>get WS5, 3A, deep strike, fear, heavy flamers, and upgraded power weapons for a mere 5 points >this is considered a bad unit Kill astartes players. Behead astartes players. Roundhouse kick an astartes player into the concrete. Slam dunk neophytes into the trashcan. Crucify filthy marines. Defecate in an astartes players food. Launch astartes players into the sun. Stir fry astartes players in a wok. Toss astartes players into active volcanoes. Urinate into an astartes players gas tank. Judo throw astartes players into a wood chipper. Twist astartes players heads off. Report astartes players to the IRS. Karate chop astartes players in half. Curb stomp astartes player parents. Trap astartes players in quicksand. Crush astartes players in the trash compactor. Liquefy astartes players in a vat of acid. Eat astartes players. Dissect astartes players. Exterminate astartes players in the gas chamber. Stomp astartes skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate astartes players in the oven. Lobotomize astartes players. Mandatory abortions for astartes players. Grind geneseed in the garbage disposal. Drown astartes players in fried chicken grease. Vaporize astartes players with a ray gun. Kick old astartes players down the stairs. Feed astartes players to alligators. Slice astartes players with a katana.
>>97687118>We've never tried Scatter deepstrikes with melee that deploy as a ball.We HAVE. Deep strike has been a rule in previous editions of warhammer besides HH. Charging out of deep strike was always super powerful and not something that was generally allowed. Vanguard veterans (the marine jetpack elites) were unique because they could do it, because it was the sort of OP ability that made 3+ save 1w dudes worth taking.
>>97687118Granted, you get 40k deepstrikes
>>97687138>>get WS5, 3A, deep strike, fear, heavy flamers, and upgraded power weapons for a mere 5 pointsWhat? No. Flay clade are WS4 2A without fear (and the statline for "legion basic terminators" as seen from ebon keshig and grave wardens is actually 3A). CONTEKAR are WS5 3A. But they are priced like legion elite terminators.
>>97687097A lot of soviet autocannon have really strange (generally bad, or good but only with a very short life span) performance due to prioritizing low weight and high rate of fire over everything else, so I wonder how effective this system actually is at shooting down missiles at the level of the gun itself.
>>97685132Still very wip, but guess the legion
>>97687014>You are not taking prime terminators for impact(I) on weapons that are going 2nd anyways into everything except a mirror copy of those weapons.I would 100% take Atramentar for Impact (I), as that makes them strike enemy hammer wielders earlier. That is the only weapon i care about - terminators can easily survive power axes on their 2W 4++. I do not fear them.>Save 400 ptsNo, I save 270 pts. I like multiple small units better than a single deathstar. Anons say they deal with deathstars by slowing them down and ignoring them - I believe three smaller units are harder to slow down and ignore. And can still focus to deal with an enemy deathstar should you need to.Also, fuck am I the only one who actually likes Land Raiders? They look cool, they are tough, and they (could) shoot a bunch of cool lasers. Idk I thought you guys liked that.>ou should not be able to just drop a saturnine command squad onto a point without any further investment.So using a Prime just isn't an investment?>Saturnine Command squads, Saturnine Command squads, Saturnine Command squadsAre we also allowed to think of regular Shock Assault non-Command Saturnine?
>>97687153Min-maxing. Why make the thing last longer than the projected lifespan of the ship it's on?
>>97687156>Also, fuck am I the only one who actually likes Land Raiders?I should hope so. Theyre hideous things. The HH one isnt as ugly as the 40k one, but theyre still ugly as sin vehicles. >Are we also allowed to think of regular Shock Assault non-Command Saturnine?Those are significantly less relevant to this discussion. But sure, being able to deep strike those and their particle shredders for free would also be bad.
>>97685249The biggest problem is that most of those backpacks may not fit nu-Heresy bodies
>>97687156>fuck am I the only one who actually likes Land Raiders?Raiders have long been given the side eye on this site, given that you are paying a premium for its armament when most use it for it's transport capacity.
>>97687059>Five heavy flamers on a deepstrike Fear 1 WS5 unit are badI'll bite. What would make such a unit good? Let me gues...Thunder Hammers.
>>97687156Land raiders have always been popular, from the start up until today to the paint GW doesn't dare replace them with pr*maris slop in 40k. Don't let armchair general min-maxxing contrarians on /hhg/ fool you.
>>97687156Back to the topic of land raiders:While I hate them as a hideous abomination, an ungainly wheeled box that is an affront to all good visual design, its actually okay mechanically. People around here take them fairly often and while they do have a nasty tendency to explode against a kratos theyre good for a delivery mechanism. And the pts required for a unit that requires a spartan (plus the extra pts of the spartan) make that sort of deathstar suicidality expensive. Theyre not bad units for the job, theyre just gay and lame and I hope everyone using them stubs their pinkytoe. >>97687184It turns out the marine vs marine game does not place "heavy flamers" as a particularly powerful weapon, who would have thought. And yes, the best way to buff contekar would be to give them better access to AP2, either by letting them upgrade more than just the sgt to the escaton power claw (functional thunder hammer) or letting them take fists/chainfists. Or buff chainblades in general (breaching 5+?)Contekar are not "bad" though, theyre just highly situational, theyre an elite terminator unit (and priced as such) which is basically locked to trying to assassinate soft backfield targets via their deep strike (around which they are balanced) because theyre just very bad in melee against any actual elite melee unit. They could also do fine against massed despoilers and the like I guess, but thats not really a major concern.
>>97687156I like the proteus and the hh era achilles but the rest are all meh.
>>97687181>given that you are paying a premium for its armamentI doubt it. The price of sponson lascannons is what, 20pts? The twin lascannon turret on the predator is like 10. With a land raider youre paying for that Av14. Thats it, AV14 and assault vehicle.
>>97687087Anon, Dreadclaws are a 15" transport that comes from any board edge on turn 2 (third edition errata page 3), and disembark fat models from a fat base who then move 6".The area in orange is the one covered by the 15" move from any board edge. The area in green is the 6" covered from the end of the area in orange.Have fun with your Warmonger!
>>97687248But anon, the only metric math-hammer nogames know is damage output. Having AV 14 means nothing.
>>97687092It smells funny. It's visual because it makes people tear up from the stank
>>97687258You dont take land raiders for their damage output (although it IS actually okay, six lascannons isnt a lot, especially if you move, but its enough to deal chip damage and threaten things like rapiers)
>>97687256NTA but Dreadclaws are hidden OP, I'm convinced GW has a plastic kit planned with how broken the are.
>>97687142...40k deepstrikes scatter and are deployed as a ball?
>>97687267I don't even upgrade the twin heavy bolter. Land raiders are for driving forward full speed and delivering their cargo ASAP. They don't get an opportunity to pick targets and shoot during that. The twin heavy bolter still gets to fire at full BS when splitting fire, it's surprisingly decent.
>>97687144Flay clade? What is that? "Clade"? I only remember that word from Assassins. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just honestly don't know what you refer to. Plz clarify?
>>97687171>for freeWhy do you retards keep thinking deepstrike would be free? It would cost a prime. Primes are the most expensive thing in your whole detachment, as they compete with Logistical, which is the most useful Prime by far.
>>97687312I would get the twin heavy flamer. Templates don't care about snapshots, right? Fwoosh big flame
>>97687345Correct. Defensive weapons don't get snap shots when splitting fire either.
>>97687256It'd leave a 3"x30" strip unattended at the very middle, but yeah that Dreadclaw can reach you, a full turn earlier than anyone else.
>>97687370So, a Land Raider with lascannons (sponsons - defensive), Havoc launcher (pintle - defensive) and twin heavy flamer (template - fires normally) still keeps a respectable firepower.What if vehicles could always use the Heavy profile of their guns? S9 multi-meltas and 2D lascannons, for starters.Idk what that'd mean for balance.
>>97687331dedicated atramentar unit
>>97687379Had one of my tanks positioned safely behind the front lines jumped by a militia squad with krak grenades charging out of an arvus lighter. Never have my marines been more humiliated. People are probably under-estimating flying transports because none of the marine flyers have plastic models yet. Wouldn't surprise me if people start crying for nerfs once plastic dreadclaws and/or storm eagles are available.
>>97687331He Atramentar terminators, found in the legacies rules. He's also bitching over nothing. I would kill to have deep-strike on legion tartaros termies for a mere 20 points, never mind all the other shit atramentar get.
>>97687214>Atramanetar and Contekar are BAD . . . unless you use them for their intended purposeOk retard.
>>97687568Atramentar and contekar are bad in a world where deep strike is free on everyone. Read the conversation retard. Theyre units balanced around their deep strike capability, capability some dipshit proposed making freely available to all terminator units.
>>97687458>>97687501Ohh wtf how could i miss them lol. They look quite alright. Shock Assault, so not like they need an Apex to take.
>>97687583Also:While contekar are not "bad", they are not "good" either. They fill a very common and easy-to-come-by niche and for their cost are shockingly easy to have end up being useless. If you take them in a generalist list you are quite likely to have them end up doing very little/being not very good.
>>97687583>deep strike is free on everyoneYou DENSE motherfucker. Why do you keep saying I want free deepstrike for everyone? Get this through your thick skull:Deep strike as a Prime Advantage. Prime Advantage. Prime Advantage!! It literally has a cost.Like half the lists out there are glued together by Logistical. Using up a Prime would cost you that, especially on the very few Shock Assault slots with Primes>>97687600They're fine. Not the best ever, but if they were, your own Prime-Atramentar Praetorian Command would be useless. Meaning Contekar are as good as they should be. All is right.
>>97687594Yeah, the complaints are just another classic case of /hhg/tard thinks the only unit that exists is WS 5 thunder hammer terminators.
>>97687626More so, he doesn't seem to get that the proposal would be deepstrikes as a Prime, meaning very limited.Yet he says it'll be free and for everyone.
>>97687623>Deep strike as a Prime AdvantageSo free. Those do not cost points, they are FREE. >They're fineSituationally, yea. They can perform well, but what they do can often be replicated by a regular assault squad, because what they do is often going to be "drop in and kill a tactical squad next turn". Theyre a specialist designed for a common role that would be better if the game wasnt about "heavy armored dudes fighting heavy armored dudes" as much (i.e if SA/militia infantry were more common, but they arent. Also entirely worthless vs admech and custodes)>but if they were, your own Prime-Atramentar Praetorian Command would be uselessYou are never taking both in the same list. Both because your prime atramentar require the apex (and contekar are elite) and because both of them rely on deep strike to be good. >Like half the lists out there are glued together by Logistical.Literally zero lists are glued together by logistical benefit on shock assault or command slots.
>>97687631>he doesn't seem to get that the proposal would be deepstrikes as a Prime, meaning very limited.Except it isnt, because in your retarded proposal the prime benefit confers from character to unit and vice versa. Literally every single army gets a free command prime slot. It is FREE. There is no investment, there is no cost. You simply take the centurion and terminators you were already taking, and then get to deep strike them in without any downsides.
>>97687661NTA but not having that paragon of battle legion champion or vigilator whilst your opponent does have one is in fact quite the downside. Speaking from experience.
>>97687594>They look quite alright.Theyre okay. Terminators with deep strike for +5ppm. Not very exciting as a legion unit but usable. They are however ONLY usable because they get that deep strike. Because they exist in a world where it is a limited commodity and thus having access to it is worth something.
Alpha Legion or Night Lords, that is the question.I want MKIII armour, Breachers, Castraferrum, Tartaros Terminators, Predators and perhaps some sort of allied in Knight or Armiger. I'm not sure which would look better. Both call to me. Word Bearers also tempt me but the colour schemes of NL and AL are so damn pretty.
>>97687683Do you enjoy the prospect of painting lightning bolts on all your marines?
>>97687683Alpha legion are probably the strongedt choice over all. They were top tier in 2e and are still top tier now. Very flexible legion that does basically anything you want through stealing other peoples best stuff. >tartarosNight Lords have two variants of unique tartaros. Contekar and Atramentar Flay Clade. Neither of them are insanely powerful but theyre more flexibility if you want it (and they have a special detachment for spamming terminators). In 3e Night Lords are also a pretty decent melee legion, if they get to apply a status probably THE best melee legion. Tanks are largely legion agnostic in 3e.
>>97687690About as much as I relish the idea of doing metallic turquoise on every man and vehicle in my army.
>>97687698>Alpha legion are probably the strongedt choice over all. They were top tier in 2e and are still top tier now. Very flexible legion that does basically anything you want through stealing other peoples best stuff.Nta but I must point out you're a WAACfag and should be flayed
>>97687702Oh that's easy, a different anon posted a life hack for that a few threads ago:>Buy tamiya metallic turquoise spray can>Spray your models with it>Paint the details
>>97687698Alpha Legion are kino and fairly underappreciated in the fanbase (I blame Mike B(BC lover)rooks for this btw) and it'd be nice to see more people play them. Night Lords are decently popular but they're edgy to the wildest degree so I legit don't get why people enjoy them haha
>>97687721Someone got touched by three units of huscarls I see.
>>97687721It seems our superiority has caused some controversy.
>>97687661Have your Centurion teleport them closer, so my EW2 DG centurion can flatten his ass. Unhurried and unstoppable
>>97687734i like night lords edginess because it's campy(in an aesthetic sense), space marines as a concept are sort of silly to me so my favorites are the ones most concerned with pageantry and actively trying to sell their own character(and it makes it more enjoyable when they get btfo)
>>97687673Anon, I would take WS4 termies for +20 pts if they came with Impact (I) and no deepstrike. Killing the other guy before he kills you is the best impact there can be. The only things that could hit then at i4, don't actually threaten them
>>97687734Because night lords are the most "space marine" space marines. Theyre the legion that best exemplifies the inherent brutality and horror of the emperors creation, and illustrates the reality of what they are (the worst of humanity given power and told to go kill everyone else in the galaxy). Hell, theyre basically a microcosm of 40k at large and its themes. A "necessary evil" turned on its creators in a way both inevitable and predictable to everyone involved except the monsters who set it in motion. They are the sins of the imperium come back to haunt them, the barbarity it inflicted on the rest of the galaxy now turned upon it. Intended to be the golden warriors of a new age and in reality nothing but degenerate thugs in power armor, inflicting cruelty for its own sake for no greater cause than evil. The imperium personified.
>>97687831Incidentally, the second most "space marine" legion are Iron Hands, specifically in 30k post Ferrus getting humiliated. For largely similar reasons.
>>97687811>>97687831i change my answer to his it makes me sound less straightforwardly gay
Is there a way to have thunder hammers not look like ass on tartaros terminators?
>>97687870What's your issue with them and what would you consider not looking like ass?
>>97687870is there a way for them to not look like ass on anything? no, because there is no blade
>>97687907That picture looks pretty good, the longer handle makes the pose better, the shield also looks pretty good. My issue with them is that they just look awkward and unbalanced, especially when theyre paired with a storm bolter rather than a shield. These ones in particular are hideous.
>>97687929GK terminator daemon hammers come with long hafts, if that's more to your liking, and swapping out the head is pretty easy. So is the hammerhead on most thunder hammers, even the official ones. Only problem with the GK one is that it goes on the right arm, so you'd have to figure out how to give them left handed storm bolters (not impossible). Plenty of 3rd party hammers exist too.
>>97687907NTA but I can't stomach how oversized the heads are. Heresy thunder hammers are usually better but only usually.
How should I run SoH Chieftains?
>>97688280In abundance
>>97688120The new power axes have even worse oversized heads. So fucking ugly.
>>97688408Yes.
>>97688406What, like full 400+ point squads and a HQ attached?
>"I don't like the big ones, they hurt too much."Pathetic.
>>97688280They're like a praetorian command squad but better, so run them like that.
>>97688280chainaxes not chainswords (you have a 2+/5++, swinging second is not your problem)pick on units slightly better - you are effectively fielding Indomitus Melee terminators so think about what they would do; a couple of power fists won't hurt, a transport is a good idea for most situations because you slow af; power weapons for all if you want to be better than chainaxes but don't trust yourself with the points sink of all fistsyour banestrike bolters are a distraction, only seek to use them if you're being charged or will be outside of charge range, don't put yourself in situations where you're expecting utility from them; take the Legion Standard, it's funput a basic Champion in the unit - he'll benefit from Shield when you need it - and force Challenges, that way you're getting +6 to Outside Support, +2 to Combat Resolution from the Standard, +1 to Wound from having the Challenges going (meaning you'll wound T4 on 2+ with your chainaxes), and you're already a kind of scary melee unitconsider buffing them with a Librarian or a companion unit (any other unit in the same melee including a second Legion Standard, for one thing, will absolutely fuck over the other guy); Biomantic Rage makes you better than most terminators, but Divination can up the utility of your banestrikes and provide a challenges guy (instead of a Champion), while Telepathy can be used on units setting up to block your guys in and simply tell them to fuck off instead (it also grants Fear (1) which may mean you get a Gun Them Down more often)idk man depends what you wanna do, I'd say LR and a Command choice at least, but have some idea of where you want them to go before you commit to the bit
>>97685132uwah
>>97687990Dawn of War always fucked with my thunderhammer expectations. The actual models look so goofy compared to those ingame.
>>97688758DoW 1 and 2 did many things better than the tabletop ever did honestly.
>>97688758Heroic scale would be like 4 times as much head volume
>>97688513I fucking hate how large the sattty fatty weapons are because they CAN'T FUCKING SWING THEM
>>97688513imagine getting t-bagged by your own commander
>>97684576More militia. I fear it's becoming an obsession.
>>97688878Fr they are excessive. Not even Warhammer over the top excessive. It's just cartoonish plus
>>97688956militzie kino. very cool. i love those modelsi'm excited to proont out my last squad worth of them soon for accompanying an overseermight even stamp out a small horde of sniper recon squads too and a force commander and some medics for an outright allied sectionbaseliner filth are toppe texture alongside (or in opposition to) a marine force. excellent foil to the transhuman monsterssecond row from the left and the third model back looks like he has a plate or patch of fabric or whatever that has been omitted proper coloring on his right hand tho if u maybe wanted to pave that in <3
>>97689040>second row from the left and the third model back looks like he has a plate or patch of fabric or whatever that has been omitted proper coloring on his right hand tho if u maybe wanted to pave that in <3Good eye. I speed painted these guys and decided to make a time-saver decision to just paint the hands with skin tone even if they had the weird metal plates from the new chaos guard kit. I'm planning on painting 120 infantry (plus who knows how many artillery crew/command squaddies/HWTs) so corners are getting cut. I'm pretty proud that each batch of 10 militia have only taken about ~45 minutes of table time per model overall.
>>97689090right on man and yeah that's a volume of infantry that might well call for said method, one can always go back and spiff things up as needed. based mob of traitor scum
>>97685556Which books is it? I want to listen to them.
>>97688956T3 supremecy rise up
>>97689398pretty sure titandeath is the main or even sole full novel regarding the conflictprepare yourself for the narrator emulating sanguinius screaming his head off iirchttps://gofile.io/d/j0wqEP , epub and m4b audio for any who desire
>>97689484I do not believe in militia's infantry. It's like six different flavors of "5+ save armed with non-Breaching AP useless weapons". Does me a big Zzz.Though I could respect their Russes, I assume.
>>97689610Militia infantry is terrible (I'd argue all militia infantry are overcosted compared to solar aux) but wtf am I gonna do, not take infantry in a militia list?Their artillery seems really good, though. When uncle chang ships me my earthshakers then those pesky astartes will kneel..
>>97689610very inexpensive if frail choices for moving up behind astartes and sitting on objectives if that's your thingsimulating total baseliner death is otherwise their purpose lmao
>>97689610That's kind of the point anon. The infantry is dirt cheap chaff meant to be in the way and keep the enemy busy, so the militia's tanks and artillery can pound them into dust.
>>97689628Do they have any Russ Commander? Those Heavy Heavy Weapons Teams do seem interesting, at least. And ogryns.So do grenadiers, but I really have no idea how to use them. Meh-lites
>Scenario: NYRCON CITY>Objective: Kill and be killed
>>97689634>>97689644You're right. Baseline mortal destruction!
>>97689654>Do they have any Russ Commander?No, but they have an apex detachment which lets you take 7 russes/malcadors and a baneblade without needing a superheavy detachment.
>>97689862>apexRegular Armour detachment or whatever the normal tank detachment is called would be enough. But without a tank commander, the issue is what unit you're going to put the Militia Commander in
>>97689944The officer of the line (3) Command Squad dummy.
>>97688719robbed of his helmet spike. Norwood reaper claims another
>>97690027none were spared, i just found them to be a bit of an extraneous ornamental flourish on what i look at as otherwise hard af thug as shit bomb suits that detracted from the gravity of what they're conveying a little
>>97686667Gives me star wars battlefront Hoth flashbacks
>>97687092Slap a warning label on the fuel cannister
I think Horus Rising is much better than Know No Fear cutting more into the book, but the scale is really setting in and there’s just no way this war took only 7 years/less than a decade. More than half the galaxy would be unaware it ever happened until centuries after it was over,
>>97687155is that a tau bit on the melta? what is it supposed to be?
>>97688120Same>>97688408I think they look ok on nu-terminators, but yes far too big.
>>97689958That's good and all, but the problem isn't affording the Russes (4 may be enough), it's where I'm going to put the guy. Though with Officer of the Line 3, there's going to be plenty of where he can go and who he can go with.>Masters of Discipline can also have OotL3>Field guns, Heavy Ordnance batteries, Rapiers and Fire Support Troops (HWT) surrounded by scores of infantry, supported by Tanks / Tankettes / CavalryAlright, Militia sounds interesting
Were Beakies designated as Mk VI power armor during the Heresy itself? It feels like it wouldn’t make sense for it to get a number due to the circumstances of the war until it was over, though the Corvus name would probably stick.
>>97689398TitandeathA Game of Opposites ValeriusThese take place in the Garmon system during the war. For more in-depth, broader lore you can read Adeptus Titanicus Titandeath, Legions Imperials the Great Slaughter and Campaigns of the Age of Darkness: The Battle for Beta-Garmon :)
>>97689557>prepare yourself for the narrator emulating sanguinius screaming his head off iircKeeble is certainly....committed, that's for sure.
>>97689610WAACfaggotry.
>>97690343There's a tiny piece of fluff relating to BG in the "Exemplary Battles of the Age of Darkness: The Battle of Nyrcon City" pdf
>>97690348i gotta respect it desubro is for a fact just doing his best in the most earnest light that can be summoned
>>97690353Ignorance, mostly. Seems their power isn't on stats, but rather board presence. Grenadiers look interesting, though idk what to do with them
>>97689610they are supposed to be trash in the setting
>>97689644Speaking of, what is the best gun to mass kill milita infantry? rotor cannons and stubbers?
>>97685556Meh, Titanslop is just marvel tier, nothing beats the Isstvaan campaign.
>>97690412Bolters, volkite, any kind of cheap blast weapon... there's a lot of options that do the job rather well.
>>97690417(You)
>>97690199that was the plan
>>97690412Bolters are probably the most cost effective, maybe volkite chargers? Tbh basically everything kills militia, theyre t3 5+ save dudes.
Speaking of militia, whatever you do do NOT take an artillery detachment filled with kalliope rocket mortars and heavy rocket batteriesAnd definitely do NOT back them up with demolisher cannon leman russes to crack armor If you do everyone spamming tacticals and kratos WILL call you a waacfag what the fuck was GW thinking with a 7" blast suppressive 2 gun
>>97690776Tactical and kratos spamming retards aren't worth listening to anyway, dumbest players around.
>>97690544Well played sir.
>>97687169Barrel lives are measured in rounds fired, and they dont just fail outright, they become horrendously inaccurate for a long time first. In the cases of some of the weapons in question the number of rounds they coule fire before the barrels degrade significantly is in the range of about 2000-4000 rounds, which is less than 60 seconds of fire on a platform thats in service for 30 years as compared to 15,000-50,000 rounds on equivalent US and European weapons. Obviously you can just replace the weapon, but it seems like it would create an incentive to never ever do any live fire training.
>>97690940Barrels can be swapped.
imperialis !
>>97690958In these cases the barrel is about 80% of the mass of the weapon
>>97691281Excluding the ammo.
>>97690343The AT titandeath campaign book is just a timeline and some blurbs about titan legions, not really worth it.LIgma Beta Garmon is kino
Was Magnus always going to be on the throne or would it become unnecessary after the Human Webway was fully completed?
>>97690300if you're running tank militia, you take Survivors of the Dark Age as your first (and potentially only) Provenance, and you put your High Command choices in Reserves so you're not giving away VP that you won't be winning from capping objectives
>>97690776I feel like demolisher russes have a very bad time up against a kratos.
>>97690776Heres the thing anon. A mori caliope rocket launcher is like 55pts, the big rocket battery is 85pts. Yes, its a very nice suppressive 2 7" blast, thats a good weapon. But a quad bolter rapier is 40pts and will also apply suppressive 2. The biggest advantage of the rocket artillery is barrage + a slightly longer range, but thats not really "that much" of a game changer. Its nice, but its not going to be drastically changing the calculus imo. Suppressive fire does not invalidate "tactical spam" when marines bring it, I dont see why it would when militia does it. They seem like fine weapons; I you would be more than happy to take a few in most lists I imagine, but they do not seem like some sort of "this is it guys! I finally cracked the code on how to counter the meta!" strategy. Marines already do fine into suppressive 2 which is easy to obtain and very cheap, marines test vs cool 6 into it and then on cool 9 via the nuncio vox next turn if they fail it. It is not trivial to deny tactical marines scoring without also adding snipers into the mix (which marines can also do btw, probably better than most other factions)Same for demolisher russes. Yes, when in ordnance range they can absolutely put a lot of hurt even on a spartan or kratos. Theyre also 24" range on their main gun, meaning they will probably NOT get to fire in their ordnance mode (and unlike SA they cant even creep 4" and still count as stationary). They are also 160 points, theyre not "cheap", they cost as much as a vindicator laser destroyer. That is a non-insignificant investment, and frankly I think a kratos has perfectly fine odds against two leman russes (which is a roughly equivalent investment).
>>97692124Its also worth mentioning that while 48" is good, its not "the entire board", especially if you deploy towards your own rear/play short board edges. Thats autocannon/lascannon range. So the fact that your rocket batteries cant ever move can and will hurt you.
>>97692124>>97692135Also, another issue with the "if you bring this people who run tacticals and kratoses will call you mean names" angle is that the humble rhino exists, and can safely get your tacticals onto a point while being functionally immune to that sort of artillery until they disembark. And I assume most people running mass tacticals have at least a couple rhinoes with them to ferry them to the point turn 1 (since thats the entire gameplan).The units arent bad, but you are exaggerating their effectiveness in a weirdly adversarial way.
>>97692157Oh, and one more thing (not so much an issue or flaw of any given unit, but rather how the militia army works). Militia have a LOT of suppressive because multi lasers exist, can be taken on nearly any vehicle and can split fire just fine as defensive weapons. Applying a lot of suppressive to the enemy as militia (or SA) is really easy, which lowers the premium of dedicated suppression platforms like the horsefucker rocket. Why take a unit for it when your vehicles you have anyways can just take a pintle mounted multi laser and split fire with it to do the same thing more or less. The pinning artillery like medusas and basilisks can provide is imo more relevant, both because it means your opponent only gets one "real" chance to remove it a lot of the time (if the vox fails, they cant move and therefore get onto the point) but its also "a 2nd status", a fairly rare one at that, which is fairly valuable. The best way to do statuses is simply making someone take three tests.
>>97692184>The best way to do statuses is simply making someone take three testsThat's why the banehammer is the best baneblade variant
>>97692243That gun is hilarious and I do kinda want one.
>>97692243It'd also make a fun mini leviathan conversion idea. More than any of the other BB transport options.
>>97692413kino
>>97692124>But a quad bolter rapier is 40pts and will also apply suppressive 2.Yes, but that needs direct line of sight and uses Ballistic Skill. Mori Caliope rocket mortars attack outside LoS and only scatter a single d6 on a 5" blastI see the biggest strength of Rapiers over Field guns as being able to Fall back instead of being auto-destroyed by Panic. A Militia vox does little in the following Start phase if the unit was already destroyed for Falling Back in the previous turn.As for Demolishers, I believe in Demolishers are fine and good against both tanks, TEQ and regular infantry. I would support them with Rapier Laser destroyers, because all you said is also true.What alternative is there? Vanquisher cannons? Maybe that's what's going to take to tackle Kratoses ngl; they seem like the Final Boss of enemy tanks :O!
>>97692515Im not disagreeing with you anon. I think both the vtuber rocket artillery and the demolisher cannon are good weapons. I just dont see how theyre doing what was claimed they would do, that theyre some secret super broken thing which will make people hate you if you bring them.Vindicators are good, suppressive (2) is good, the ability to launch suppressive blasts at people over cover is nice and good. But I dont see some secret sauce unbeatable strategy there, its just "solid units".
>>97684439>TQI would say probably a knight that has a gattling plasma canon for one armIt would give you the option to either fire 4 or 5 Small plasma canon shotsOr over charge it and fire 2 large gravis plasma shots but with overload 1Then give it a melee weapon taht would either be the tempest warblade or some sort of maul Alternativly. I would give gravis plasma sponsons for Super heavies.
The special secret is that militia can fit literally everything they want into a list, with points being the only limit. Endlessly nested oversight delegations with a single discipline master with officer of the line 3 gets you your kalliopes AND heavy rockets AND rapiers AND demosliher russes AND multi-las malcador etc.
>>97692531>I just dont see how theyre doing what was claimed they would do, that theyre some secret super broken thing which will make people hate you if you bring them.It's called "marine players are sore losers and whine whenever something beats their net list that they don't even know how to pilot correctly." Seriously I think the only thing that loses to the standard list of "30 tacticals, 2 rhinos, a Kratos, 2x5 seekers and 10 WS5 terminators in a spartan"...is 30 tacticals, 2 rhinos, a Kratos, 2x5 seekers and 10 WS5 terminators in a spartan. Even my bad Automata list that had no way of dealing with AV14 vehicles managed to beat a thousand sons list with the only variance being 2 laser vindicators over the Kratos and 10 corvidae autocannons over the seekers
>>97692647>admech list can win against list not tailored to fight admechIn other news, sky blue, grass green.
>>97692647>"30 tacticals, 2 rhinos, a Kratos, 2x5 seekers and 10 WS5 terminators in a spartanWheres the rest of the list? Or are you playing 2k?
>>97692647That marine list only works if the opponent is kind enough to ignore the tactical squads and let them get near objectives unharmed, and brings some big expensive tanks so the kratos is actually worth its points. It is an extremely limited army, even some tarantula sentry guns cuck it hard, because there's zero units with anti-grav that can move over them and the whole win condition of the list is rushing onto objectives turn one.
>>97692531I wasn't that other guy, anon. Though I do claim it could be a very solid composition. If Militia's stats won't be anything to brag about, then it will be their presence: multiple sources of artillery hidden and dispersed, that the enemy has to first find before dealing with it. And at the same time, Russes doing what Russes do.I hope both those things together can take some pressure off your actual infantry or whatever else you have. Could work
>>97692710The chairhammer on this board never ceases to amaze. >if the opponent is kind enough to ignore the tactical squads and let them get near objectives unharmedThats what the transports are for. Killing rhinos (and the squad inside) cost effectively isnt a trivial matter, nor are marine lists so toothless from bringing 300pts of tacticals + 100pts of transports that they have no ranged threats worth addressing. Killing 3/4 units of tactical marines at range is also not trivial, because short of admech automata (or thallax if you slow them down with a priest) they are the most durable line infantry in the game. "just kill the scoring" is an abstractly correct ideal applicable against all lists, its also on par with "just score more" in terms of how useful it is. >no heavy armor for the kratos to killThere will almost always, in all lists, be good targets for a kratos. Because the only way to have no good targets for a kratos is to simply take nothing heavier than a rhino. And that sort of infantry spam runs into various issues on its own (namely a lack of killing power, speed and durability). A kratos may be ideal into people spamming land raiders, but it can and will happily engage with predators, rapiers, dreadnoughts, automata and sentinels, because its just "a pile of guns with Av14", its not a laser vindicator. >theres no antigrav to move over themThere is no army (outside of marines with a MoS) that has antigrav line. There is also no real antigrav scoring marines have access to, because the generic antigrav units marines have are either cavalry (jetbikes, speeders) or vanguard (vets, assault marines). If tarantulas stop the advance of a list they stop that advance for functionally all lists. Marines in rhinos arent a slow unit, they are among the fastest (effective 19" move).
>>97688621Appreciate the response anon, sorry for the delayed (you) - how would you go about balancing the armament of the squad?
>>97692623Yeaaah. One Master of Discipline gets you 4 Russes, 4 Support slots, and more infantry you could possibly ever afford. Maybe the other one can give you 4 Recons and 2 Grenadiers.But infinitely nested?>An HQ unlocks an Oversight Delegation detachment, with yet another HQ slotDon't mind if I do!
>>97692763And also, finally:>well, if you take XYZ skew list the "tactical spam" (see: 3-4 tactical squads) list wont be able to winProbably, for some variation of skew. You absolutely could write a focused list that would be equipped to counter a generalist "take all comers" list (which is the list/idea of a list you are you are shadowboxing). Thats neither surprising nor remarkable. In that same way you can theorycraft a list which would trash whatever skew you come up with. Its also not at all relevant unless you know what list your opponent is bringing, which you might do when playing in a closed community (until people start with the arms race of countering each other) but does not work at events or in larger groups.
>>97684439>If you could make a new super heavy unit what would you make?Your mom lol
>>97692763Are you seriously saying that kill tactical marines is difficult? And you're accusing others of chairhammer generals, top kek. Rhinos are somewhat harder to kill yes, but far from invincible. The only way I can see somebody struggling with killing a single Rhino is if they brought nothing but land raiders besides their kratos or something. And even then the tacticals can't stay inside the Rhino all game, they have to leave it at some point. After that they're guaranteed dead, there's so many very point efficient ways to kill marines. Breachers, veteran breachers, any legion specific unit that can spam meltabombs, multi-melta HSS... there are tons of infantry options that will effortlessly wreck sometimes even super-heavy vehicles, and need only a Rhino to catapult them forward for one turn to do their job. Infantry heavy lists have never been better. And brining no expensive vehicles and just ignoring the kratos is the most easy way to deal with it, it just doesn't have the volume of shots needed to matter against infantry.Units don't need Line to score VP, and master of signals exists. And some VP is still better than nothing. Your post reeks of nogames >>97692796The standard tacticals spam, kratos plus terminators in party bus list is not a take all comers list by a long shot. It's the definition of a netlist, because its effectiveness is based purely on hypotheticals and everybody keeps copying it regardless of how many times they keep losing. I've beaten it every time so far, with wildly different lists, not even trying to tailor specifically against it.
>>97691246Looks mega fun anon
>>97692647>Even my bad Automata list that had no way of dealing with AV14 vehicles managed to beatOk...then how did you destroy their AV14 vehicle?And I don't mean how you won by ignoring it and focusing on VP, or how you stun locked the tank.I mean how you killed the AV14 tank.
I want to use Ogroid Theridons in Horus Heresy.
>>97692763>A kratos may be ideal into people spamming land raidersWait what? Kratos counter triple LR? :((>>97692710Are Tarantulas really that big a roadblock as people claim they are? A marine squad can krak them to death. Idk if multiple charges are still a thing (or even viable on 1d6r), but a single Predator can kill 5 Tarantulas across 2 turns
>>97692926Why does that matter? There is absolutely no reason to worry about killing AV 14 vehicles when you can just win on VP. Vehicles can't contest or control objectives.
>>97692878it really was, a huge victory for my blood angels at 77-36.the poor nightlord player i was facing had trouble with placement, his falchion only fired once, his two vindicator squadrons did nothing.all in all a good game, can't wait for a rematch
>>97692962Chaos Brutes or traitor militia ogryns.>>97692963Tarantulas are vehicles so units aren't allowed to move through them. They can infiltrate and have quite a large footprint, so it's easy to block off easy access to an objective. And the movement phase happens before any damage can be done, so the turn 1 objective block is guaranteed.
>>97692962they're a bit big for regular ogryns but they're about the right silhouette for charonites with the power pack humpgood luck with that
>>97692963>Wait what? Kratos counter triple LR? :((From personal experience? Yea, kinda. Land raiders have a durability profile that Kratoses are pretty "efficient" into and in return the land raiders arent doing much damage back at all. A Kratos kills ~1 land raider per turn iirc, and so can get through three land raiders over the course of a game with reasonable likelyhood. The land raiders can still get their cargo to destination (for the most part), its not like its going to blow you up all in one turn, and obviously lowballs exist, but by the end of the game you having no land raiders left because of the kratos is a real possibility.
>>97692515>Mori Calliope Rockets Thanks anon, legitimately got a laugh from me
>>97692861>The standard tacticals spam, kratos plus terminators in party bus list is not a take all comers list by a long shot.That is literally exactly what it is. A generalist list relying on "game fundamentals" to be able to handle a wide variety of threats and lists without particularly specializing into any of them. It also has 10 terminators for some reason despite a terminator party bus being an objectively terrible choice in every edition, so I guess someone is feeling sentimental for 2e deathstar blobs (which were also bad, but common). Its a list designed to do a little bit of everything rather than being built to counter any specific threat, that is the definition of take all comers.
>>97692993Glad to hear you had a good time homie, RIP the Nightlords guy
>>97693022>able to handle a wide variety of threatsBy that very definition it isn't a TAC list, because there are tons of not even strange or rare units that list has no answers to. Again, it's only win condition is praying the opponent lets you rush tacticals onto objectives uncontested. That's it. The only army it can deal with is a mirror match, for obvious reasons.Not being able to deal with any threat at all doesn't make a TAC list anon.
>>97692861>Are you seriously saying that kill tactical marines is difficult?On what metric? Yea, obviously a bunch of heavy weapons fire will kill them. Heavy weapons fire is however not free or common. Tactical marines are durable for line units, and can weather a substantial amount of non "heavy infantry killing" firepower. You arent removing them with a heavy bolter volley. Killing them is an investment, its a thing you are doing instead of having your autocannons or whatever. fire at something more valuable. They arent being mopped up by your residual small arms fire. >Rhinos are somewhat harder to kill yes, but far from invincibleWho said anything about invincible? They will very reliably go down to dedicated At firepower (laser destroyers for example). That requirement (dedicated heavy weapons) is however once again not trivial. This means you either put premium firepower into a cheap transport or you have to hold off on killing it. >And even then the tacticals can't stay inside the Rhino all gameObviously, they just need to get to their destination. Which they (more often than not) will. >multi-melta HSSI was being far too charitable with my interaction with you it seems. What the fuck are you on about "multi melta HSS". Multi meltas are one of the few "bad" weapons this edition. Yea, theyll kill a rhino (although only "just about" when outside melta range), but thats an absolutely terrible unit which shows you dont understand whats being talked about. This isnt a matter of "can you kill the rhino by the end of the game" (yes, you can krak grenade it to death if you want, literally any marine unit can kill it in melee), its a matter of the rhino being able to get units where they need to go in the early stages of the game because the sort of firepower that is required to stop it is limited (case in point: you are not running many 10 man multi melta HSS units, if that unit spends its turn 1 to "just about" kill a rhino they are not doing a whole lot)
>>97692962Cool ruinstorm brute.
>>97693068>taking only heavy melee infantryThats certainly a choice. Although even in a world where its forced to eat nothing but rhinoes and veterans a kratos will do "fine". Nothing spectacular, but killing a transport or two per turn or taking off 4~ command squad guys every turn is fine as a ROI. But you probably ARE taking dreads or tanks or rapiers or whatever else, because thats where your heavy firepower/ranged damage is as a marine list. You can build a list without that stuff, but you will usually not do that, because having your anti tank come in exclusively melta bomb is not something you actually want to rely on as your plan A (and being able to kill things at range is generally useful). >units dont need line to score VPA unit of assault marines scores as many points by sitting on an objective all game as a line unit does by scoring once. You dont need line to score, you do need line to score effectively. You do not take anti-grav units with the intention of scoring, they are not effective at it and they are not intended for it.
>>97693068This is the last reply you get, because holy fucking shit you must be the primordial stereotype of a nogames. And I hate wasting my time arguing with retards too dumb to understand anything beyond damage output comparisons.Using heavier weapons or more expensive units to kill tacticals marines IS taking out the more valuable units. Removing the opponent's ability to score more VP is how you win games. There are units that are cheaper than a tactical squad + Rhino that will absolutely eviscerate those tacticals in one round of shooting. You don't need to kill all Rhinos and tacticals in one turn, it is very easy to block access to objectives with your own unit. If you think multi-melta HSS are bad you haven't seen them in action, again confirming you're a nogames nomodels retard.
>>97693108>There are units that are cheaper than a tactical squad + Rhino that will absolutely eviscerate those tacticals in one round of shooting.Lmao. Go on, list them. List that 150~ pts unit that wipes out 10 tacticals in a volley.
>>97693106>The only anti-grav unit that exists is assault marinesMaybe open the rulebook for once. There's a lot of information in there that would make you look less like a raging retard.
>>97693114NTA, but this is literally what destroyers are for. Also any despiiler unit. Even cheap 5 man tac vet squads with combi boaters and a follow up charge will probably do the trick. Also rapiers, either 2 phosphex or 3 bolster or normal quads. Assault marines will also work, little more expensive but get there a turn faster, plasma or flamer tactical support...hey wait a minute there's a ton of options for this what the fuck are YOU on about
>>97693057>because there are tons of not even strange or rare units that list has no answers toSuch as what? What damage profile is it lacking? There are absolutely things that it is not "good" at killing, especially in large numbers (walkers, big automata, mass power armor at long range, massed armor (a singular kratos can only kill so much)), but there is no situation where that list has nothing in its toolbox that can do "something". Thats the definition of a TAC list. >>97693121These are the generic anti grav infantry marines have access to:Assault marines Assault VeteransCommand squad with Jump Packs.(There are also various jetbike and speeder units, but those are cavalry and never score).You may notice a trend among the (small) number of units that have jump packs. >>97693137>NTA, but this is literally what destroyers are forDestroyers are fucking expensive anon (23ppm for an assault destroyer with twin serpentas). Sure, a 10 man squad with volkites can kill a lot of power armor, but that unit isnt cheaper than 10 tacticals + rhino. Its actually like 80pts more expensive. Destroyers are also basically the epitome of glass cannon unit. >despoilersAre not cost effective into tacticals. Especially given that by the time despoilers get to those tacticals theyre going to be missing a chunk of the squad. >5 man tac vets with combi boltersNot actually a weapon option. And 5 with volkite chargers wont be killing 10 marines per volley (or even close to that).>rapiersPhosphex rapiers arent cheap. And two phosphex rapiers arent going to be wiping out a squad of tactical marines either. Three bolters wont either. Certainly not in a volley (which is the claim, theyll manage it over a couple of turns of fire).
>>97693114NTA but...
>>97693164Assuming 4~ hits per template (imo fairly generous/reasonable). 2 shots, 8 hits. Overcharging. 8*1/3+8*1/2*1/3 = 4. Its fine, its okay damage and will kill them over a couple rounds of shooting. But it is not "eviscerate those tacticals in one round of shooting". By the time those tacticals are finished off by the dread theyll have scored a whole lot and done their job. Killing tacticals is not hard in the abstract, anyone can do it with basically any unit. Everything kills tacticals. Killing tacticals is not trivial, it is not easy to kill 10 of them without relatively overwhelming firepower or specialised tools (drop pod interemptors, thallax with twinned plasma fusils, etc).It is especially not trivial to do it quickly on a budget of 170~ pts.
>>97693162Oh Jesus, that anon wasn't joking, Crack open the fucking book you retard. Actual armchair theorist doesn't even know what weapon options units can take
>>97693181>8*1/3+8*1/2*1/3What the fuck secret language is this?
>>97693186basic math
>>97693186Math.8 hits 1/3 chance to breach. 8*1/3 = wounds caused by breaching (no armor saves)You wound on 2s (normally 5/6 chance to wound), but a portion of those wounds (2/6) has already been accounted for with the breachingThe remaining 3/6 (or 1/2) wounds then get saved on 3s, so 1/3 for the wound to go through the armor. So 8*1/2*1/3 to account for the non-breaching portion of the hits.
>>97693181>Four>GenerousFour is a very low amount of hits, mostly only the result of scattering after a miss. In an actual game 5 or more hits are the standard, being able to spread out the entire unit exactly 2" is something that only happens in theory.
>>97693205>>97693212I hate it because I don't understand it. Fuck that secret language bullshit.
>>97693213>being able to spread out the entire unit exactly 2" is something that only happens in theory.The biggest obstacle is simply convenience/speed of play. But sure, 5 hits ups the number of kills to 5. Still not taking out the squad. If theyre super clumped up (because your opponent is playing against double plasma dread but NOT spreading out) it could be higher.
>>97693226>The biggest obstacle is simply convenience/speed of play.You really haven't even touched a single model in your entire life, never mind seen a game being played.
>>97693232I have literally done the 2" spread in all(not literally all) of my games because I keep playing against people with big infantry killing blasts (plasma/inversion beamer saturnine dreads, admech knights, thanatars etc). It really isnt that hard to do, its just fucking annoying.
>>97693162>Are not cost effective into tacticals. Especially given that by the time despoilers get to those tacticals theyre going to be missing a chunk of the squad.What is an interdiction squad for 500 bob.
>>97693243Some gay primaris shit I reckon
>>97693243>What is an interdiction squad for 500 bob.More likely to end up with a dead squad of despoilers than a successful charge? Dont get me wrong, interdiction is a good trick and can absolutely catch people off guard in the right situation, but its absolutely something that can be played against and can just as easily be a "sacrifice the unit" play. >>97693251Its legit a really cool strat. If I was playing WE my list would be just loads of despoilers with that prime and then idk what else.
>>97693261Anon, you cant be reacted to when an interdiction squad shows up, since it iself is a reaction.On top of that. you only need to make a 5" charge which on 2d6 even as a disordered charge you still have close to a 55% chance of it going thorugh. Which if you are using your dispoilers against tacticals which you should be, congrats you now either screw that tactical squad up, at best, or at worst force them to divert attention to them and off of other things on the board.
>>97693261>Its legit a really cool strat. If I was playing WE my list would be just loads of despoilers with that prime and then idk what else.Its a good strat all around, it works amazing even with tacticals. A blob of 20 dudes just showing up snapp shooting like 60 shots is fucking great.
>>97693284I dont mean "literally a reaction", I mean your opponent can (if they know what theyre doing) play in such a way that they respond to your interdiction cadre with their subsequent plays. >or at worst force them to divert attention to them and off of other things on the board.I guess? But you are now potentially just feeding your opponent a unit, maybe even vanguard pts. I can see the potential of it working, but the counter "crushing failure if it doesent" also seems like a very real possibility. >>97693293That one youre going to have to sell me on. Maybe for fists?
>>97693306>Vanguard pointsOnly if you are atop an objective, and ontop of that vanguard is a fucking BITCH to get now. because you have to either wipe the unit OR force it off via a status check. If you shoot at said dispoilers and just shoot them off a point, but dont cause a status and dont wipe the squad, you dont get vanguard. 20 tacs is pretty good to just unload 60 bolter shots at another tactical or a dispoiler squad. Its 60 shots, its gonna do work, espically if your opponant is only running 10 man min squads which is pretty common.
>>97693446>vanguard is a fucking BITCH to get now. because you have to either wipe the unit OR force it off via a status check. If you shoot at said dispoilers and just shoot them off a point, but dont cause a status and dont wipe the squad, you dont get vanguard.
How many Tactical Squads make it into a normal sized list? I’m just sort of buying what I like right now, but do plan on playing eventually.
>>976936203~4, you could run less but its risky
>>97692995>Tarantulas have Infiltrate (9)>Land Raiders Carrier have M10"Tarantulas "force" LRCs to slow down some ~2" at best, as LRs want to be deployed right on the end of their deployment zone, and thus force Tarantulas to be deployed 9" away said DZ.Land Raiders Explorator outflank from the sides instead, and thus don't care about containments to the DZ.I assume Rhino passengers instead say "bold words from someone in krak grenade distance"?I assume Tarantulas might be more effective in clusters away from the center but with good LoS to the center and enemy DZ - wouldn't that force the enemy to divert resources from the main attack or else pay a movement tax (being fired at every time he moves)
Seriously where the fuck is that custodes drop?
>>97693721weren't they meant for 40k?
>>97693695Cool, I guess my Mk 6 guys will be plain Tactical Squads then, but I’m definitely waiting for a Mk 5 refresh for anymore Tactical Squads.
>>97693729No?
>>97693721Maybe they’re fixing the weapons to actually be functional. Those promo models probably weren’t made using the plastic you’ll get off the shelf after all.
>>97693164>STOP POSTING ABOUT DUAL GRAVIS PLASMA CASTRAFERRUMS! I'M TIRED OF SEEING IT! My friends on Beta-Garmon send me memes, on Cthonia its fucking memes. I was in a server, right, and ALL the channels are just Dual Plasma Dreads stuff. I showed my Plasma cannon to my techmarine, and the plasma vent I flipped it and I said "Hey babe, when the dread knees! HAHA! Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding DiDiDing!" I fucking looked at a trash can and I said "Thats a bit Overload (X)!" I looked at my Saturnines, I thought of Tactical Dreadnought Armour and I go "TDA? MORE LIKE Dual-Dread-Plas!" AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>97693293>snapp shooting like 60 shotsWait, units coming from reserves don't count as having moved??
>>97693701The units inside the transport also can't move past the tarantulas, because you can't move within 1" of enemy units and unlike the araknae the tarantula legs do count as part of the model. So it doesn't just deny 1" movement of a land raider, but also the entire movement of the unit inside it. One pair of tarantulas is only 1 slot, and deployed side by side with a slightly over 2" gap between them Yes they are separate units once deployed, no unit coherency required. I know you didn't read their unit entry create a roughly 8" broad wall that no units can move through. The tarantulas don't care about being destroyed because the have Expendable and cost almost no points. And the consolidate move the tacticals get after destroying the tarantulas isn't enough to move onto an objective that is behind the tarantulas. It's just a cheap, yet extremely effective way to deny objectives turn one. Doesn't even matter if they are destroyed or don't shoot anything.
>>97693775Reaction shooting always counts as stationary unless stated otherwise.
>>97693775as this anon said here>>97693802So yes, this is why i keep telling people the interdiction cadre is fucking good for both Tacticals and dispoilers.Tacs get 3 shots a pop.Despoilers have a 55% chance of making a charge.Which if you are going up against other despoilers or tactically, you are going to fucking mog them. Right now im building a 15 man block of despoilers to do just this. Power claws on SGT and 3 power axes
>>97693821Remember the tacticals snapshoot, so while its 3 shots, its, only 1 hit, 0.5 wounds, 1/6 unsaved wounds per tactical.
>>9769372940k might be keeping the current sculpts so autists buy a separate army for each
>>97693756Plasma blast weapons are just that good anon, all the cool kids use them.
>>97693843Sure but thats also assuming perfectly average, it can go both ways, But even still. if its .5 wounds per marine, assuming perfect average.Thats still 10 wounds. they need to save against which again, most people are running 10 man min squads so its a quick way to thin their numbers. Personally again i like dispoilers for this more.
I don't care about tactical marines.
This will probably be the last practice match I get before Adepticon. We couldn't play at the usual club so my buddy invited me over to his place. The board was not necessarily ideal for Titanicus but it sufficed, and we had a great time. I had a slow start but I ended up winning brutally.Adepticon also finally released the rules for the events one of which is adding a half-dakka vulcan mega bolter to warlord power firsts for free so I'll be able to participate with laserbeak's proper loadout.
So im reading the assassins rules and i got to the Neuro Gauntlet and im really confused.It has Rending 4+ and Poisoned 4+why?!Rending 4+ makes poison 4+ obsolete in every situation dosnt it?
>>97693963This is the fellow I'll be in the doubles games with so we were also talking about what our maniples will consist of, backstory, and team name. Stripes got caught out in the open and silenced. Jim also got caught out in the open but it took longer to go down. Most of its firepower was completely wasted trying to drop the shields of the dire wolf, and after Blastermaster added in some firepower Laserbeak was able to finish it off. I prefer the power claw but the sunfury I used for this match was quite violent. Rock 'em Sock 'em was able to survive the warlord's charge and snuggled into the crook of the side arc and dodge any return swings, actually bringing the titan down thanks to 2 rending critical hits from the chainfist.
>>976937931. Your wall makes LRs go from 10" to 8,9" at most, Rhinos from 12" to 8.9"2. Units CAN disembark, for only the forward hull is within 1.1 of the Tarantula. You disembark model per model and move them up to 1.1" next to the Tarantula for a guaranteed charge.3. You can deal with an AV10 HP2 wall in a single turn. Especially if you aim to cause a bottleneck. They are excellent targets for 5 pts HK missiles.If the Tarantula Wall is spread thin enough you only need to destroy a couple of them; won't even need to disembark. If the Tarantula Wall is dense enough (two rows)...then the wall itself is enough points to justify being attacked, as two Tarantulas with respectable guns average 95 pts.Please put 285 pts of Tarantulas on my doorstep. If you don't, I won't need to disembark. But I love attacking walls, so please give me a target to justify charging. Iron Within your tarantulas hnnnnggg aaaaaaah
>>97693985Laserbeak finished off the dire wolf on turn 3, and on turn 4 thanks to a reactor overlord and Blastermaster's support it also finishes off that warlord. It's pretty rare to kill a warlord in one shot but thanks to laserbeak's anti-armor loadout and my totally bullshit rolling it got the kill. Looking forwards to getting to show more people my models.
Lel
>>97693973No, Rending applies to the Hit Test, Poisoned applies to the Wound Test. So for example if you're hitting most Automata with it, initially your chance of Wounding successfully is 1/2; but if you roll 2 or 3 to Hit, then your chance of Wounding goes to 1/18 including the Hit test (which is at 1/3 because you'd be hitting on 2+, but anything over 3 is an automatic Wound); for Rending wounds the neuro-gauntlet is at AP2, but for non-Rending it's AP3 so, again, vs things like Automata that have Poisoned (X) resistance and decent armour saves, it's an almost literal cointoss whether you get a Wound off or not.It's the power sword that's a mystery. Totally obviated by the gauntlet, no reason to use it. I think originally Eversors had them because they could Parry as well as get +1A for 2CCW, but that's gone now. Might work better as an Aftermath option like the Misericord?
>>97694096sure but an assassin in S4, and most Autonoma are gonna be S4 or 5 anyway, so like....you still need a 4 to wound them normally and even then, it applies poison at a 6+ because rend treats a rending hit as a 6+ so it would still wound an autonoma either way. I just dont get what the point of it is. its redundant.
>>97694096Rending doesent make you Ap2 any more, youre thinking of breaching.
>>97694121It's not redundant. Consider something with both Rending 4+ and Poison 4+On a hit roll of 3, you hit. Roll to wound. You roll a 3. You do not wound.On a hit roll of 4, you hit. Do not roll to wound. It wounds automatically without needing to roll.Imagine a S3 model attacking a T8 model using a Rending 4+ weapon.Roll a 3 to hit. It hits. Roll a 6 to wound. It fails, because S3 cannot wound T8.Now roll a 4 to hit. It hits. Do not roll to wound. It wounds, even though S3 cannot wound T8.
>>97694123oh yes true>>97694121it's the difference as other anon explains between the chance of wounding a Thanatar on a coin toss or basically not at all
>>97692974>Why does that matter? There is absolutely no reason to worry about killing AV 14 vehicles when you can just win on VP.Oh, I know that, I'm not disagreeing.I just think blowing up the biggest tanks is cool, and I was told the game is about cool stuff? So, I'm interested in actually killing tanks. True vehicle kills.It's going to be /my dudes/' fluff. Just like how Angron's boys sometimes fought needless wars with a disproportionate emphasis on close combat, I'd like my guys to focus on being paragons of firepower.So much that the main task for their commander will be how to better direct their firepower towards targets that actually matter, and minimize collateral so it doesn't cost objectives...or the goodwill of their allies.So I want to actually shoot AV14 to death
>>97694547As mechanicum? Their options seem a bit more limited. Most reliable method is probably thallax with meltabombs.>Str 9 armourbane, 4 damage each>Melee so 2+ to hit at worst>10" movement makes thallax fast enough to charge earlyThallax with multi-meltas can also do the trick, in melta range each penetration roll of 6 does 6 HP of damage. But that such short range you might as well go for the cheaper meltabombs and dharge instead. Sollex heavy-las and vultarax can also do some damage against AV 12 with Str 10 and 2 dmg (ordnance on the heavy las) but lack the proper volume of shots to reliable wreck AV 14.But as mechanicum you have the perfect excuse to bring an Imperial knight or Warhound titan with a big fucking gun that'll rape AV 14 like they're made of paper. Which is the most cool option if you ask me.
>>97694640What if I brought marine allies? Bring in a Siege Breaker specialist with a complement of big guns to solve things.It is a pity, Mechanicum Destroyers went from being overkill S10 to overmeh S8
What actually requires an Intelligence test? They said gear would need it and I thought vox and augury scanners were going to be the ones, but apparently that would slow the game too much.I think only the Reaction-Farmer Augury Command squad uses it?
>>97694712That's also an option. Marines have a decent number of units that can crack AV 14, a good number of which are more flexible and less of an investment than a kratos.Siege breaker now buffs barrage weapons, no longer helps with killing vehicles.
Is it just me or is the Callidus assassin a fucking steal of a unit for easy removal of MEQ units? >>97694751Relic missions, Repairs, Int checks on specfic war gear like vox com, and funny enough to detect Callidus assassin.
>>97694751>Master of Signals when giving a unit line or vanguard>Siege breaker using cognis signum>Battlesmith>Detecting an AL saboteur>Activating objectives in relic hunt missions >Mechanicum which has like half a dozen abilities that require an int checkProbably forgot a few.
>>97694769Of note, int also makes mechanicum debuffs harder to cast on you, which would probably be better if A) half of mechanicum's debuffs are fir fighting mechanicum B) anyone took mechanicum debuffs, which no one does because they're too hard to cast and half the army depends on getting buffed for full efficiency so you have no casts to spare
>>97694712If you only want some rapier las destroyers you don't really need the siege breaker, You can take an Armistos instead and add a lass cannon to themIt also has an augury scanner and it's a bit cheaper, the cognis signum from the siege breaker won't do anything with the las rapiers
>>97694836I only know of the mechanicum debuff that forces a status effect on the target unit, with no chance to resist it.
>>97694756Feels like hiring mercenaries lmao. I'm thinking it'd be mostly Rapiers, which I don't understand.They seem like this to me: like 105 mm howitzers you can drive into position, as there's nothing towing them so they must be self-propelled.They are the silliest buggies ever.
>>97694906They're field guns that can drive themselves around. Rather than having to be pulled or towed around.
>>97694906They are self propelled guns but they are not fast like a vehicle, just keep pace with infantry
>>97694906It's not really like hiring mercenaries. Though admittedly this is a part of the lore that GW has handled extremely poorly lately. During the Great Crusade and Heresy era, all the different military factions of the Imperium were much more integrated with one another. Each expeditionary fleet would include forces from various factions within the Imperium, which all had to follow the commands of who was leading expeditionary fleet. That commander could be a primarch, a high ranking officer from the Solar Auxilia or Imperial Army, an arch magos from the mechanicum, or a praetor from the space marines legions, a titan princeps, you name it. The expeditionary fleet commander had overall command over all the forces within the fleet, there wasn't any real bickering between the different factions or back and forth arguments like in 40k. It was only after the Heresy that command of every faction within the Imperium got segregated, to prevent another case of one command going rogue having so much forces under their command that they could bring the Imperium to its knees.This has always been very poorly represented in the rules, though probably somewhat due to practical reasons. Having one "Liber Imperium" book with every possible Imperial unit would be too heavy to carry around for a lot of nerds, lol.Admittedly the 3.0 ally rules have been the best representation of the higher level of cooperation between the different Imperial forces during the HH to date.
>>97694957>>97694986Behold, a Rapier.
>>97695153No don't be silly that's an M2 pattern Sabre
slaughter all loyalist pharisee rat fucks
do any of you guys actually run a medicae? can i see it?also, what's the most straightforward mk5 conversion you can cobble together in 2026?
>>97695420I do. Narthenicum is another tool to keep your unit status effect free, and besides that it's another 2 power weapon attacks for a mere 40 points. The medic! reaction also gives a melee unit a reaction to use if you got the reaction point to spare anyway, and in combination with Eternal Warrior it becomes kinda broken.
>>97695516spot the dark angel player
>>97695550Come on now, there's more units than just deathwing companions that have the eternal warrior rule.But yes I do play DA
Any MkIV rumours yet? I'm reluctant to go balls into my new SoH project without them
>>97695153>>97695183That's a militia quad with an autocannon
>>97695420use the praevian body, looks better for mk5 than nuscale apothecary to me
>>97695672this is a pretty great sculpt though it was a separate question, i like the big coat and double helix too much not to use it were i to>>97695516i see, i see... can i see yours
>>97695748>can i see yoursAnon please, this is not that kind of board!
The Saturnine Teleportation Transponder should give all Terminators the user joins Deep Strike, change my mind.I just like the idea of a Saturnine Praetor teleporting in with a bunch of Cataphractii
man i hate legion numbersthe blood angels have 300 companies, and are around 120 000 strong. that mean around 400 marines per company.and then there's the battle of canopus where 3000 BA fought under command of a single archein (company master)so that mean entire companies are formed of joe schmuck, archein of jack shit and his two battle buddies
>>97695966NEVER look to closely at numbers in fluff from GW. It only leads to insanity.
>>97695980how does a 5km combat ship house 95000 people help me vulkanman i'm going insaaaane
>>97695966Legions not following the "traditional" formations set down by Emps is hardly news.
>>97695612They are 100% going to be the next mark because of the leaks, we just don't know when they are dropping.
>>97695898Honestly while I don't mind Saturnine bringing back RT-style terminators (even if I still think they should have been literal 'Tactical Dreadnought Armour' where the pilots are mortally wounded veterans). I do hate how 90% of their weapons options are unique to them and them alone while they can't take most of the equipment shared with the rest of the list. It's like they're something out of modern 40k rules design.The melee weapons aren't too bad given they're basically just oversized power fists/power axes/thunder hammers, but for their ranged options they should be able to:>Take a combi-bolter/combi-weapon/volkite charger as the fist-integrated weapon instead of the particle shredder/plasma blaster>Take an option from the heavy weapons list instead the ranged weapons>Take a third option from the heavy weapons list because the head weapon was peak 40k and you can't convince me otherwise
>>97696005>It's like they're something out of modern 40k rules design.That can be said of most things post 1.0.
>>97696008Yes but they're the first to be outright "every unit gets its own special weapon that no one else gets" like 90% of Primaris releases
>>97696005I think the weapons do fit thematically. The whole armour is more DAOT tech leaning, so makes sense the weapons are more exotic as well. Though I certainly wouldn't mind a silly quad-magazine bolter.
>>97696014To clarify, I don't think they should lose their current options, I just think they should be able to take shit from the generic options so they actually feel both DAOT-adjacent AND part of the army list they're in.
>>97693973Didn't read the rules again award
>>97696043The plummeting literacy rates are painfully obvious. Being able to play a game like warhammer is going to be a lost art in a few years.
>>97696024But then they would get options that aren't inside the box and it seems they hate that now outside of specific conversions like the aa whirlwind.>>97696009They are also "terminator but bigger and better" but at least unlike primaris which in 40k lack even the caracterization of the genetic flaws certain chapters have at least they are meant to be rare with how hard they are to build which I think is another 40k-ism. >this weapon that I pulled out of the chapter relics (read: anus) won us this battle but we can't use it again because it takes the tears of 10.000 eldar orphans to recharge so it will take centuries before we use it againIf anything these guys should have been HSS termies with better combis and the options of getting squad-wide heavy weapons with some silly unification war stuff sprinkled in kinda like the previous poster wrote. That or boxnought weapons .
>>97696051I mean, saturnine terminators are HSS terminators. The standard saturnines are worse in melee than bog standard legion terminators, and their weapons are somewhat similar to what a HSS can bring.Saturnine command terminators are tougher, but cataphractii command terminators have more attacks and damage for similar points. tldr: saturnine are more of a side grade to terminators
>>97696066I meant with actual HSS guns like heavy bolters, lascannons, etc... or even c-beamers like lernaean termies but squad-wide. Another solution to make them fit more would be letting other units like vehicles or dreads get their guns.
>>97696087>>97696066>HSS terminatorsTheres your issue. Thats an absolutely cancerous design. Siege tartaros are halfway there (plasma blasters and reaper autocannons) and theyre borderline abusive. Imagine HSS with the durability of saturnine or cata terminators, thats absurd.
>>97696314You can price them out of being abusive.
>>97696320I guess? But its just not a fun unit design because its essentially something that rewards non-interaction. HSS are basically the scariest infantry unit in terms of "damage and ease of damage", the downside is that theyre super fragile for the cost. Terminators are basically the hardiest infantry for the cost, with the downside of having a hard time getting their damage in. HSS terminators are the best of both worlds, a durable high damage weapons platform that does its thing at very high distances. Theres basically no good answers in the game to that sort of thing. "just make it expensive" doesent fix that, it simply means non-interaction becomes even more optimal as a response. You still want to ignore the big terminator death blob shooting you, but now youre more likely to win doing that because that blob is overpriced or undergunned or whatever. >but saturnines are already sorta thatYes, and thats why they have very limited weapons options. They have medium range weapons with very specialized damage profiles that are there to make sure their giant asses dont become a problem in terms of game design. Theyre super durable, but have sub-par weapons compared to what a HSS can carry around (or the twin disintegrator, which kills them)
>>97696336It just doesent feel good when your best answer to a problem isnt "well you can bring unit X which is good at killing unit Y which is giving you trouble" but instead "just take worse targets for unit Y, ignore it, win on points". It might be "balanced" but I think the game needs as few such units as possible.
>>97685249No sane person would mind seeing the coolest type of Heavy Bolter in HH. I would love to make a HSS with them myself but I'm leaving mine for my Badab armyBackpack is so obscured it could be from Mk4. Arms are also Mk4-ish. Use this Bolter as a litmus test to sniff out retards in your playgroup.
>>97696361the arms are nowhere near mk4 you absolute pleb, but they are fine for mk6.
>>97696361nta but I've been thinking about using different variants of the same weapon in a squad, combined with having mixed armour patterns. To really make units look like they've been fighting through high attrition during the HH with whatever equipment is available.
>>97695898No i disagree, becauseAll ternimator Sgt should be able to buy a upgrade for like 20 points that lets the unit Deep strikeCenturions and Preators should be able to buy it for 15 points. Warmongers should get it as part of their tool kitHowever, i also belive that base you should not be able to charge from a deep strike, HOWEVER, the warmonger WOULD allow you to charge out of a deep strike, thus giving him an actual reason to exist.
>>97696506Considering that all marks now use this type of arms (MkIII just slap an extra vambrace on top), the age of mark specific arms is over. It's all interchangeable now.
>>97694065>>97694094What event is this from
>>97689398Ignore these queer HH book recommendations, read Adeptus Titanicus by Abnett. You really should read any other 40k book. Or any HH book they are all sloppa
>>97696631Would it be fine stylistically to use the HSS kits with MkII? I got some spare vambraces around from the MkIII kit but I'm not sure if it's enough.
Scouring stuffhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/xmlkha5o/the-scouring-timeline-how-the-warhammer-studio-worked-with-black-library-authors-on-the-new-series/
Really happy with how he is turning out
>>97696888>TIMELINE OF THE SCOURING>Mid 014.M31 >The Siege of Terra concludes and the Traitor retreat begins.>Late 014.M31>The Battle of Luna>Early to mid 015.M31>The Liberation of Mars>Late 015.M31>The last of the Traitor forces are purged from the Solar System and its immediate vicinity, including Mars.>Early 016.M31>After securing Sol and reorganising the weary remnants of the loyalist Legions, a bitter and vengeful Rogal Dorn declares they must “scour” the traitors from the face of the galaxy, in what many come to see as a dismal echo of the Great Crusade.>Early-mid 016.M31>The Battle of Avellorn>Mid 016.M31>The Battle of Gamma-Horgan>Traitors fleeing Terra take Gamma-Horgan with help from turncoat local forces, before pursuing Terran forces, reinforced by others from Kado and Aquitaine, drive them off towards Vanaheim.>Early 017.M31>The Underworld War finally ends, and the conflict on Calth is declared to be over.>The Scouring of Molech>Mid 017.M31>The Battle of Seraphina>The Ariggata Culling>Late 017.M31>The Second Battle of Vanaheim>Scattered Traitors muster around Vanaheim and attempt to re-take the world, but are defeated and driven towards Yarant.>Mid 018.M31>Operation Carthage – The Scouring of Isstvan V>Early 019.M31>The Doom of Valhalla>Mid 019.M31>The Iron Cage>Perturabo ascends to Daemonhood before returning to Olympia to establish his 'Iron Empire'.>The two years-long Siege of Olympia begins.>Late 019.M31>The Third Battle of Paramar
>>97696912>returning to Olympia to establish his 'Iron Empire'.>>The two years-long Siege of Olympia begins.Hey, Perty, the 41st millennium called, they're asking where your empire went.
>>97696925>>97696925>>97696925
>>97695783good, good, i like your freehand...now lift his robes and let me see what he's packing
