>>97698404
>How the richest Bone Gnawer amassed his fortune

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>>97698486
>>97698404
If you're a lick, you get the dick.

What have you guys done today to shift the paradigm?

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>>97698533
Are you threatening me with a good time?

>>97698620
>shift the paradigm
I'm reinforcing it

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>>97698533
All I see are carpets and wallpapers

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>>97698673
Oh Andrei, what happened to you?

>>97698404
>What did your characters have to do when they were at their lowest point?
I was actually plotting to embrace, Dominate and murder a victim of Tzimisce forced feminization and Serpent of Light sex trafficking to save my adoptive sire from the suspicion of collusion with said Serpent of Light (she had Diablerized the Serpent instead. Which was also bad.)

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>>97697985
Did you want a downloadable copy or just a site that has it to view?

Also to the anon who had the v5 ai storyslop autismo ST. I think the first dot of this loresheet will give you a chuckle.

Quick few questions about certain things regarding WoD5:

—How easy/hard is it in actuality, on a scale of one (“I can do this without thinking”) to five (“It’s an utter nightmare to get it to work”), to add lore from “defunct” games (ie games that have yet to be brought over to WoD5, such as CtD20, MtA20, DtF, WtO/Orpheus, and Mummy the Resurrection) to ongoing chronicles (not necessarily NEW chronicles; I’m specifically asking about ones that are currently in progress)

—Are there any homebrew items that support a more “whimsical” tone/style of play or are such things frowned on?

—Does the system, from a strictly mechanical perspective (ie considering game mechanics and only game mechanics), support a “whimsical” tone to begin with?

>>97698937
Not that anon but either would be cool.

>>97699339
By whimsical do you mean superhero? Heroes and villains, big set pieces, without grim woe is me crap? Or you mean like MLP? You probably need to define your terms a little better.

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So how common are mages and sorcerers families in WoD? I ask because I personally like Fate’s way with magus bloodlines and how the family’s traditions shaped their craft.

Personally I think there’s too few mages in the nearest equivalent, Order of Hermes/9 Traditions, and the Houses look more like fraternity houses than what I’m looking for.

>>97699413
Scribd has it for viewing but i cant find a download for it. Honestly the loresheets arent too bad. The disciplines are kinda meh but i have an unoffical sabbat book that has better variations of those disciplines.

>>97699339
>—How easy/hard is it in actuality, on a scale of one (“I can do this without thinking”) to five (“It’s an utter nightmare to get it to work”), to add lore from “defunct” games (ie games that have yet to be brought over to WoD5, such as CtD20, MtA20, DtF, WtO/Orpheus, and Mummy the Resurrection) to ongoing chronicles (not necessarily NEW chronicles; I’m specifically asking about ones that are currently in progress)
Just add it if you want, it's your table.
>—Are there any homebrew items that support a more “whimsical” tone/style of play or are such things frowned on?
Your group, your rules. Don't sweat it.
>—Does the system, from a strictly mechanical perspective (ie considering game mechanics and only game mechanics), support a “whimsical” tone to begin with?
Why do you care about what the system supports? If you want to change something, change it.

>>97699413

>>97699339 here.

“Whimsical” as in “amusing/lighthearted;” not “full on childish,” more “uplifting but not naive.”

Any tips on how to deal with a spotlight thief? I have one player who can't resist trying to insert himself and take control of every scene. There are some nights where any time another character makes a roll, he attempts to make that same roll even if he doesn't have the stats to make an honest attempt. The other players are strong enough to assert themselves, so it's not like he's the only one talking all game, but they've expressed frustration with him and how he tries to control the flow of the game.

>>97699552
Talk to him like an adult instead of whining about people on the internet.

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>>97698655
>t.

Gypsies are truly the most horrific monster in Wod

>>97699552
Don’t hold out on us. What’s his character?

>>97698533
Why are the Garou so into interspecies?

>>97699421
Well there's a couple of things to consider here
>Fate Magi are still extraordinarily rare and there are very few people even capable of practicing independently who don't already come from an established eugenics program
>WoD Mages do not have to worry about mana or shit like that but bloodline is kind of important, but a Mage awakening is still extremely difficult to achieve and even within a family of many mages, offspring are not guaranteed to awaken
>Sorcery just requires a sort of talent for it in WoD and this is in some part genetic. The issue is just breaking into it and the possibility that a Sorcerer will just awaken as a Mage, become schizophrenic, say fuck it, and disrupt your finely maintained eugenics program to focus on Magic instead of Sorcery
Sorcerers are absolutely compatible with the Fate-style Magi, Mages not so much. The problem is that Sorcery doesn't actually have a dedicated series of books and lore so it's basically your own type of home-cooked meal, but at least in WoD the lack of restrictive shit like Mystery, only one Mage Crest available per family, and Mana being more abstract means that you can pump out way more sorcerers per family than in Fate.

>>97698533
If the sept really needs 4 big guys to kill a single leech, then the situation must be reallly fucked

>>97699462
Gf1l3
/d/BL1VkG

Thanks for the tip here if you want.

>>97700192
If I were to ST a Fate inspired Mage game I would just rule that sorcery is the foundations of magic. All respectable and ancient families/houses have sorcerers in them, and the teachings of sorcery is in part a way to awaken new members. Mages represent the explosive growth of a family. Like speeding up the process of a new discovery by decades or surpassing some kind of hurdle by bending the world’s rules. Ideally a family would want to have each heir awaken if possible. If there is none, the sorcerers are tasked with bringing into the world the next generation of mages and pursuing the family’s researches. Contrary to kinfolk and hermetic sorcerers, my game’s sorcerers wouldn’t be second class citizens. It would just be the difference between a genius and a prodigy. Both outclass the common man, but one is just born with way more talent available at a young (career) age.

>>97699421
>So how common are mages and sorcerers families in WoD?
The only Traditions that put any stock in lineage and families would be the Verbena and the Order of Hermes. And even for the Hermetics, it’s just sparsely at best.

>>97696174
Honestly, the politics of Seelie/Unseelie don’t matter anymore. And haven’t mattered since the Shattering ended the old Court system of Seelie ruling one half of the year, and Unseelie the other half. The Seelie/Unseelie divide is more to determine what archetype a Kith is personally suppose to embody, rather than the “side” they’re on. If you really need a 1:1, it would roughly be
>Camarilla: Nobles/Conserative Commoners
Basically the Noble Houses, Commoner Kiths granted a Title, and Commoners who think the Sidhe should be in charge.
>Anarchs: Commoners
Every other Commoner that isn’t a bootlicker. Either think the days of Monarchy and blind servitude are over, and the Sidhe need to realize the power of the People supersedes any right to rule, or TOTAL NOBLE DEATH. And any other alignment that falls between these two points.
>Sabbat: The Shadow Court
An Unseelie conspiracy. Ever since the Shattering, the Seelie Court just kind of became the de facto Court, and has been reigning perpetually since. Which is why most Changelings are Seelie, and why the Seelie Houses hold most of the power. Members within the Shadow Court all have different endgoals, but the one goal they all agree on is to overthrow the Seelie Court. And something I just want to point out:
Not every Unseelie Kith is a part of the Shadow Court, but every Shadow Court member is Unseelie.

>>97700283
This is a pretty interesting approachto make Mages/Sorcerers seem less like RNG creations and more like a popular interpretation of having connected bloodlines. I do understand that the bloodlines thing is already done by Werewolves and Changelings though, but I do think there's room for a slightly less gonzo setting where having sorcerous blood is important instead of your interpretation of fate/reality glitches

>>97700395
I honestly do like to play up the Seelie/Unseelie divide. Seelie Fae are more prone to being "benevolent/honorable" in a human sense, but the Unseelie are willing to be more monstrous to perpetuate their own lives and Faekind. In the Chronicle I'm planning the Unseelie look down on mortals in general, and they do things like film and upload snuff movies of Redcaps torturing people in front of their families to farm Glamour, they have gigantic high rating Freeholds that keep mortals locked away inside the Chimerial side to use as slaves and Glamour cattle, etc.

>>97700513
I just make it point to stress that Seelie doesn’t automatically mean the “good guys” and Unseelie automatically mean the “bad guys”. I see it as Seelie being the “selfless and fair” aspect, and Unseelie the “selfish and ruthless” aspect of a Kithain.

>>97700552
Yeah, that's roughly what I think too. And the Shadow Court is Thallain so Fomorian territory, which means they are the actual bad guys who are straight up demonic. I like it when the Seelie and Unseelie clash, but they both drop whatever they're doing to deal with the Thallain.

>>97700513
And to add
>I'm planning the Unseelie look down on mortals in general
Well, Glamour is free. Who cares what happens to a few Dreamers, there’s always more to replace them.
>and they do things like film and upload snuff movies of Redcaps torturing people in front of their families to farm Glamour
And what’s the problem with that? Honor is a lie, after all.

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gonna be running my first mage game on Saturday. its gonna be a one shit with a friend as some player, playing 1 half of a technocrat police procedural duo (iteration X). I plan for them to be investigating strange occurrences at the wikimedia foundation which is resulting in some articles on Wikipedia having redirects and links to all sorts of Consensus shattering websites with the foundations buercaracy not giving any useful information.
I plan for the session to also be inspired by the general bizzare philosophy of George's Baitte so is there anything (other than nephandi) you'd guys recommend I put in there to have our two agents try to grapple with as things get out of hand

Posted this on the old thread without realises this got created lol

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>>97700577
Exactly anon, a point I will try to make is that what they're doing is actually often times more effective than being noble and heroic and giving people hope. If an innocent Childling is about to be undone, and what brought them back from the brink was the Unseelie being pragmatic and monstrous, can you really say they're wrong? You're not a mortal, you're Fae, so why put their needs before ours?
I also like the Unseelie running criminal gangs and that sort of stuff. I love how C20 talks about house Balor having a private military contractor that gets results at all costs. That's how I like my Unseelie to be.

>>97700214
Alternatively, overkill is fun.

>>97700192
>Fate Magi are still extraordinarily rare and there are very few people even capable of practicing independently who don't already come from an established eugenics program
Admittedly it's a series tradition to clown on that eugenics program in addition to explaining another way that they suck ass.

So how about that Wraith? haha

>>97700825
dead, of course

>>97700812
Trvke, but with the exception of Shirou and Ciel who are genetic/fate abominations, all the "heroine" style girls are basically the equivalent of test tube babies
>Touko is a genius-tier Magus
>Aoko is a Magician who's basically custom built for the 5th magic, her particular constitution makes her good at using it too
>Rin is a genetic prodigy
>Sakura is a genetic prodigy
>Illya is a test-tube baby
It's just no fun if Mr/Mrs. Bred-to-be-perfect wins all the grail wars. Kerry himself was part of his dad's eugenics program before he went fucking bonkers and had essentially a tricked out magic crest

>>97700825
Spook-bros are busy being depressed

>>97700976
Waver is pretty much the example best-case scenario for mages who ain't from distinguished lineages or anomalous mutants. A shit-tier mage who gets by on mastering magic theory and recruiting most of new generation freaks of nature by being a legit good teacher, earning acclaim and respect by being adopted into a distinguished family and brainmaxxing into excellence. And he can still be turned into a slurry by all of his colleagues and students.

>>97700976
that's the norm for mages though all families are eugenics programs not just the heroines. if someone would make a fate homebrew for this system mages would need a generation stat

like waver was already mentioned and his problem is that he is a second generation mage and much to his annoyance he can't overcome that with effort meanwhile Heine Istari a guy from the first case files who's alchemy reaches servant level who is far more powerful than luvia (who at that point is stronger than rin) and who can kill entire hit teams of both elite executioners and "master assassin" clock tower enforcers (guy is a repeated turncoat) without having his family crest is a 10th generation mage and there is nothing really special beside that about him he doesn't even have plot armor so he dies to a anti magic monster to prove that mages can't brute force the case

although after 10 generation a lot of crests become buggy and dangerous as they did with the Istari so it would probably be the max limit ingame

>>97700604
I hope you have a good game.

>>97699421
the only canon families like that in wod that i know are:
>Pallottino who are "nominally affiliated with the Euthanatoi" and have both sorcerer and awakened members.
>Dunsirn who are a giovanni familly of cannibal hedgemages, fianna (and possible back spiral dancer) kinfolk who also have members in the verbana
>Rossellini who before they gotten subjugated by the giovanni been affiliated with the celestial chorus and the inqusition and had some awakened members
>the Kashaf familly a "powerful lineage" of house Shaea that managed to have all of it's members current members be awakened mages but that might have to do with the fact that Daira Kashaf is the primus of the house and pulled rank to have her daughters be taught from childhood by master mages in horizon realms

but if you count families that just have sorcerers then half the giovanni families count as do the Fenian who are a sorcerer order that believe the verbena stuff about magical lineages which they try to keep pure by marrying into kinains and fianna kinfolk (as of revised they been dying out)

>>97701416
>marrying into kinains and fianna kinfolk (as of revised they been dying out)
So they are selectively breeding only with the most retarded groups in existance and don't expect anything bad to happen?

>>97701481
those are people that think you need to have supernatural blood for hedge magic of all things. they are not smart

>>97701024
Quite so, he Charisma + Luck maxed his way to power, and even then he has to work harder to hold on to his influence than everyone else
>>97701373
Sort of, like the case above and I wager most clockwork students are just sort of mages from families but without the insane breeding that only higher tier families do. There's still the matter of generation, since that determines the complexity and value of a magic crest. Iirc the Matou under Zouken also did basically the reverse of a eugenics program since he kept marrying into the family, so there's definitely a case for maintaining good breeding. I do wish we'd get more Nasu-written lore about all the mage shit going on but it seems his current obsession is with other things like demons and what not

>>97701481
Fianna kinfolk are based though, you might luck into getting a werewolf nymphomaniac instead (who might cheat on you, coincidentally)

>>97701571
>the Matou under Zouken also did basically the reverse of a eugenics program since he kept marrying into the family, so there's definitely a case for maintaining good breeding.
>Nasu-written lore about all the mage shit going on but it seems his current obsession is with other things like demons and what not
yeah sadly the mobile game (or rather nasu's blog+ Clock Tower 2015) even retconned the reason why the matou/makiri familly went into decline. it's not because he left his homeland and all of his magically cultivated land to live in a magical backwater and never made relations with the local supernaturals beside his fellow european Immigrants the tohsakas no it's because all the 72 og families are tied to a goetia demon (this gives them certain perks like their magic crest not degrading, but also means they can not commit suicide unless they succeed in a heavy willpower check) and have a destined host to be used in the goetia's grand plan and after that host the family start to decline even if that host is never used in that timeline and zouken is the host of Barbatos just like how Lev is the host of Flauros. So nothing zouken could have done would have saved his bloodline's magic

>>97701481
>>97701494
depending on which write up you read for the Fenian they might also want to have both kinfolk and fae blood despite that doing nothing for you as explained in the kinfolk book... verbena propaganda not even once

>>97701608
What the fuck am I reading? Why does Nasu write like he only considers whatever cool idea pops into his head at the moment? Man, FGO really was a mistake outside of LB6 and 7

>>97701626
>Why does Nasu write like he only considers whatever cool idea pops into his head at the moment?
because he does and it was the worst in early fate/go. for those who don't know it's pretty much a time travel police story where the antagonist breaks the timeline and some pocket dimensions form that need to be fixed to restore the timeline. And the same story that had zouken in it (singularity 4) had him and a servant version of Paracelsus von Hohenheim and Charles Babbage kill the entire clocktower (off screen and somehow. given that the clocktower as seen in 2004 would have handled that easily) in pocket dimension of london 1888 on the bad guy's orders (mind control was also involved) and then summoned a demonic mist to kill most of the city to harvest their souls, but then later they revealed in singularity 7 that people who die in the singularities will still be dead for real even when the timeline is fixed (their death will be retconed into something that makes sense in the timeline) which caused nasu to backpeddle on his blog with statements that somehow all important mages weren't at the clocktower for some reason, but never adressed the demonic mist the entire singularity is based around

to talk about nothing non fate related how crossover friendly is the spell of life? i know you can technically turn a garou into a hybrid but Owl will very likely kill it (which still leaves open the door for a black spiral dance bane mummy i guess) and that mage, vampires and any form of possession don't mix with it at all

but are there any mentions of what happens with minior splats like kinains and ghouls/revenants?

>>97701677
Owl only really has interest in Silent Strider stuff, but 99% of Spirits (barring maybe Shadow Lords) will still call you a sissy bitch for trying to use it. Perhaps a Changeling may be able to use it but immortality is itself banal and might turn you into a Mummy instead. I wouldn't say it's very cross-over friendly but that's maybe the entirety of WoD overall

>>97701688
mummies in ctd are weird in general. acording to the c20 corebook the higher they get in balance the closer they get to banality 5 and the closer they are to banality 5 they more powerful they are

so balance is the total middle point between banal and not

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>>97698404
We need more Balam

>>97701656
>somehow. given that the clocktower as seen in 2004 would have handled that easily
Remember that this was also written before a lot of the Case File stuff that really wanked the exceptional magi.

>>97701701
fera in general are fun. love me my stupid corax who never shut the fuck up

>>97701656
>but then later they revealed in singularity 7 that people who die in the singularities will still be dead for real even when the timeline is fixed (their death will be retconed into something that makes sense in the timeline)
Don't forget about the next singularity absolutely nuking the founding fathers over in the US, Nasu didn't even bother handwaving that one.

>>97701724
to be fair i also try to forget that singularity. everyting from leomon edison to ravana level cu alter just hurts my brain

>>97701688
it's more that the spell brings you to the egyptian shadowlands which is also where owl chills so unless you use the chinese or south american spell of life you are going to run into the bird and he is going to play the "not gaia's plan for ya all" card

owl being invested in the silent striders was what made it make one exception for it's favorites

>>97701481
Believing in Verbena stuff says all you need to know about their intellectual prowess.

>>97701694
Interesting, that's the existence of mummies though but I suppose not necessarily the reality of being actually immortal, but I suppose that's what trolling people and spreading positivity is for. You'd probably be able to get mileage if it were possible and afaik there's nothing really stopping you from doing so? It is technically a similar type of possession to being a Mage though so it just might not happen
>>97701750
Fuck Owl, but can't you just ignore him or bully him into acquiescing?

>>97701710
Even in Tsuki and early Fate Clocktower had Servant-level guys just casually walking around yeah, it is silly to think about but then again
>oh all the cool Mages (and El-Melloi II :)) weren't there don't worry about it
>>97701724
>>97701733
I like weirdo Edison but yeah it's one of those things that's just kind of retarded. But then again, FGO itself was a Lostbelt and not reality, so it's possible that it supersedes the rules since it's just a series of simulations of the simulations. It's kind of retarded stuff, I just wish Nasu didn't have to use it as an avenue for the stuff he's clearly passionate about writing (like Mecha Gods and gay Fairy Hitler)

>>97701782
>Fuck Owl, but can't you just ignore him or bully him into acquiescing?
he is there. he is a major totem, you are in wraith-like form and he has the power to strip you of the mummy immortality before you fully gain it

so no not much you can do beside again use another spell of life and hope that it does not notice.. the Wu T'ian spell instead let's you be judged by a servant of the either the Ebon Dragon or the Scarlet Phoenix instead of the egyptian gods... but again if those are the messangers of HTR they might also not allow a garou to join any of their factions

the Capacocha's gods are missing and their new fixed spell of life includes immortality... but it was fixed with bits of the egyptian spell of life so there a risk of owl still showing up

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Due to an extreme lack of free time (2 hours/day tops, I am going to solo play through the original Chicago Chronicles with the most That Guy character I could want that I would never bring to a real table. What are your suggestions for fun/hard to run/socially unacceptable Bloodlines/Disciplines/Features?

So far I've got a Tzimisce Pornstar Metamorphosist looking to start her own studio and skirt the Masquerade with increasingly more taboo content, using STV's Vicissitude Expanded and yes, Savage Genitalia for the whole hog. None of that muh friendly Camarilla Tzimisce surgeon shit here.

>>97701812
This is why one must make friends with wraiths so that they can quick teach you shit and then help you bully Owl
The Garou really are fucked overall though, but I guess if you add immortality and regeneration to already having regeneration they'd probably be winning

>>97701848
i find it kinda funny that they didn't went with "the spell of life only works on humans so fera can't be turned" but instead showed that spirit middle managment is just awful to their slave race

>>97701782
thinking about this a bit more can a totem spirit be at two places at once? you need a sorcerer or mummy (who often have connections to sorcerer cults) to cast the spell of life anyway so have another sorcerer summon owl somewhere else while the spell is cast on you... and hope that owl can't kill you later when you return to the shadowlands at any point

Did MtA ever get a proper hammer space/bag of holding rote? I know you can achieve the effect with Cor 5/Prime 4 or just get the Wonder merit, but I'm sure there's a bunch of other tricks to get a close enough result.

Setting up for my first Mage game and trying to fully wrap my head around the Sphere combination bullshit.

>>97701899
i could swear there was a data rote about turning stuff into digital data and vice versa, but i can't check right now

So when you initiate a grapple on someone with lower initiative in CofD and succeed, does the person who has the lower initiative just… lose their turn? I wanna make sure I’m understanding this right.

>>97702219
During their turn they get a chance to do a contested roll to try to break the grapple.

anything interesting in the stv lately?

>>97702219
Pretty sure that's the case, because after a grapple is initiated, the contest only happens in the following turn

>>97702219
When they are grappled they can only try to break the grapple, or use actions that free them from that grapple (which would theb clash with the grapple to break it).
Yes. Firmly grasping supernaturals solves most of the problems they can present you with.
Vampire tries to dpminate? Bear hug.
Woof tries to use a gift? Chockehold.
Changeling tries to flee into the Hedge? Leglock.
It's that easy.

>>97702593
>[laughs in Vicissitude and Protean]
Good luck trying to grapple mist or acid blood, homeboy

>>97701859
Wouldn't be world of darkness without some measure of incompetent middle management
>>97701895
I'm assuming because of the nature of the spirits they themselves are the Umbra so they can be channeled (albeit in limited capacity) to multiple places at the same time

>>97702634
Get in the plastic bag and you won't get hurt as much.

The writeup for the Ascending Ones is a thematic and narrative clusterfuck but I have no idea where to even start to unfuck them. Help please?

>>97702219
Grappling is the bane of every combat system. I have never seen a TTRPG manage to have a grappling system that wasn't either
>overcomplicated and opaque
>broken or useless
>so heavily abstracted that grappling and striking are functionally the same
or some combination thereof.

Check out the 1e core rules for grappling and see if they're more to your liking. I prefer them myself, since they can allow a defender to do more if they're not a grapple master themselves. Though for specifically escaping a grapple, I prefer to make it an opposed roll rather than a subtracted, since it facilitates more technique (brawl over strength) focused grapplers and doesn't make it too easy to just "lol no" a grappler.

this is the biggest pain of being a nWoD/CofD fan. 2e was a big two steps forward one step back kind of deal. More good changes than bad, but it isn't a perfect upgrade in every case.

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>>97702699
Said a lampshade

>>97702593
The chad Abbey Hunter putting a Cahalith in a chokehold as they cry to Luna for help.

>>97702593
>>97702792
How the fuck can you grapple a 10 foot 500+ pound werewolf as a normal man?

>>97702782
Probably due to grappling being broken irl

>>97702804
just roll well, duh

>>97700604
>so is there anything (other than nephandi) you'd guys recommend I put in there to have our two agents try to grapple with as things get out of hand
Union bureaucracy swooping in to screw you over at the worst time. Need resources? Sorry, someone else can make better use of them. More manpower? Shit, local RDs are fucking with some Syndicate manager and he pulled some strings.

>>97702593
of course, Mage gets a special exceptional rule that lets it still cast while grappled

>>97700604
>iteration X
Werewolves, and Changelings
>>97702840
I like the idea that they have limited resources so they have to deal with things peacefully instead of going balls to the wall first

Anyone have any recommendations for one-shots for H5? Also can't seem to find any pregens, trying to ease my group into WoD as gently as possible since they are coming from lightweight OSR stuff

>>97702882
I recommend pre-gens for VtM instead of H5, unless you really want to ease them into the setting in a milquetoast manner like having a bunch of randos get their shit rocked in a department store by a hungy shovelhead. Hunter's Hunted might have one you can adapt

>>97702812
eh, grappling is situationally busted. Good in 1v1s, not so good if you're being jumped. Good against foes with large weapons if you can find an opening. Bad if the guy has a knife (no BJJ bro can convince me they could reliably disarm a knife-wielding attacker without getting cut up something fierce). Benefits from having armor immensely since it minimizes the risk of getting clipped during the takedown.

Grappling is a bitch to do in TTRPGs because it doesn't fit neatly into the "winning a fight by doing damage" paradigm most combat relies on. It's also harder to abstract. Different striking techniques are easier to do variants on, assuming the system even cares that much and doesn't just roll it into "you strike better". And then god help you when you try to figure out how to handle a mix of grapples and strikes, since most non purely sport grappling disciplines involve strikes and strike defense. It just isn't easy to make mechanics for.

>>97702765
Sorry bro but you are unfortunately right. The Ascending Ones have no clue what the fuck they wanna be. If I could ask you a question? Why do you want to include the Ascending Ones in general? Hunter has a shitload of compacts and conspiracies, but you're not expected to include all or even most of them.

>>97702882
Please don't use their inexperience to justify making them play a bad RPG. This attitude is killing TTRPGs as a hobby. H5 is not a good starting game. It's "simple", but that's its only redeeming quality. It has less character options and content than a fucking supplement book for V20. If you wanna start them with Hunter, go for Hunters Hunted V20 or Hunter: the Vigil.

If you really, really think these players are easily upset babies that will cry if they have to look at a complicated mechanic, there are better rules lite urban fantasy games out there.

>>97702804
Per RAW, you just roll Strength + Brawl and declare a Grapple. Uratha and Garou alike hate this one simple trick!

>>97702855
>deal with things peacefully
Because Iteration X is known as the most welcoming and gentle convention. I can imagine the seeth your average tin-man goes through when he can't blow up his problem.

>>97703080
i mean they are the only convention with a kindergarden tradition

>>97702977
>Grapple a werewolf
>Hold on to their leg and get fucked anyway
It just simply makes no sense, though I know the rules are based for letting you german suplex the equivalent of a humanoid bear

>>97702977
>Uratha and Garou alike

Does oWoD also have goofy grapple rules?

>>97703121
Etherites are their most shameful creation, I agree.

>>97703273
virtual adepts actually. the pov character in the iteration X book even says that their convention is where adepts go when they grow up

>>97703295
Oh, I thought we were talking about their behaviour. Your average etherite's theories and inventions definitely look like something a kindergardener would come up with.

>>97703323
yeah but the history of the etherites is a bit weird they are historically part order of hermes, part Chorus Celestial, part Cosian Circle (proto Progenitors) and have no connection to Iteration X

you have to remember that etherites weren't about matter before joining the traditions they been about forces and the traditions strong armed them them into taking that seat because it was empty and they wanted a matter tradition

so all of their silly robot and steampunk hardware stuff all came after the defection

Question: The shapeshifter blood and faerie blood merits both state that a mage could not have gnosis and glamour, but use gifts and cantrips free of paradox. How does it work? Do you need to invest exp/freebies to buy gifts/arts+realms to use specific powers, or do you simply need to have the corresponding spheres high enough and know those powers exist, and emulate them during your casting, to use them? The merits aren’t clear on that.

>>97703412
depending on book and edition. could be either A or B, but usually when it comes to B (use spheres) the merit lacks the "no paradox" part

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>>97700428
>I do understand that the bloodlines thing is already done by Werewolves and Changelings though, but I do think there's room for a slightly less gonzo setting where having sorcerous blood is important instead of your interpretation of fate/reality glitches

I agree! Since many of our traits, culture, way of thinking, morals, ideologies, actions, etc. are defined by our nature and nurture... it seems natural that families of mages would lead to a greater chance of awakening.

>>97701373
>if someone would make a fate homebrew for this system mages would need a generation stat

On one hand it sounds cool, like a mix of Arete (quality of circuits), Avatar (for the mana quantity/circuits) and Pure Breed. Could be adapted into a background, though it would be a pretty strong one in my opinion

It'd be fun to have something to play with Origins too

>although after 10 generation a lot of crests become buggy and dangerous as they did with the Istari so it would probably be the max limit ingame

Since magic crests effectively become an organ, I guess that after 10 generations the compatibility becomes too distinct. Kinda not a fan of it though, I'd prefer if degeneration only happens when crests are split or when a body that it was attached to is too damaged

>>97701608
>this gives them certain perks like their magic crest not degrading
Yep, like stated above I'm not a fan

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>>97703425
>but usually when it comes to B (use spheres) the merit lacks the "no paradox" part
Yeah, I think I'll ignore that bit and hope any future ST I play with does that too

>>97703363
Yeah, you're right. I always lumped them in with It X because of their steampunk stuff. Turns out Electrodyne Engineers are technically associated with the Progenitors (Grand Faculty)

>>97702958
>If I could ask you a question? Why do you want to include the Ascending Ones in general?
Because an ancient cult of Mediterranean alchemists becoming drug kingpins in the modern world to finance their fight against the monsters of the night by drinking crazy occult brews and tripping balls is too good a concept to pass up. It just needs a little clean-up and a more defined identity.

>>97703482
in general they would be a bit of a problem with magus generation because you have zero way of improving it (sad waver noises) ingame so unless you are playing a game that is taking centuries and each player is playing a familly instead of just a single character (which could be a interesting game) taking it as high as possible becomes all but mandatory

>I guess that after 10 generations the compatibility becomes too distinct.
a bit of that and a bit of the fact that most mages use bits of magical beasts and such as basis for their magic crests and those don't last forever before they also start to degrade because of the decline of mystery and all that

there are guys called Tuners that have magic that can mess or improve magic crests and one guy "geryon ashborn" from the first case file (that didn't make it into the anime) was said to be able to fix degraded magic crests but now he is dead and when a group of mages (including waver because he wanted to fix the El-Melloi Crest) plundered his castle it turned out he needed to secretly kill other mages the "blood and souls of countless magi" which continued to haunt his castle as spirits and then nobody really wanted to replicate that

>>97703559
> Progenitors (Grand Faculty)
the proto Progenitors in the order of reason in general are wild the organisation before the Grand Faculty the Hippocratic Circle had a assassin guild. they(Grand Faculty) also had the proto virtual adepts aka Guild of analytical reckoners (math is part of nature so we need to calculate nature) before those joined with the League of Constructors to form iteration X. the reorganisation that happened when they renamed themselves to the technocratic union kinda gutted these guys

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>>97703563
Personally I'd like to believe that the quality of magical bits is probably the main factor in magic crest degredation. Magi nowadays (and for a long while) can only use bastardized parts taken from lab grown beasts implanted with cells of long gone magical beasts. It's the equivalent of buying subpar grounded fake meat at the supermarket because at the butcher the prime venison, or AAA wagyu filet mignon has been bought out already. Only very ancient families could have gotten their hand on magical creatures that does not walk the earth anymore, or get their hand on bits from such creatures in pristine condition.

>>97703605
Also, aren't the progenitors the place where really minor fields of enlightened science to go? I believe they had a thing about micro methodologies or something like that.

>>97703563
>0 way of improving it
Waver is kind of a hack, his knowledge of theory is good but he doesn't have the je ne sais quoi that Touko has. Touko quite literally made her own circuits, she doesn't need a crest, and she's still an S-tier Magus. Sure, she's a fucking lunatic who's okay with dying and takes incredibly retarded deals with demons and other familiars just because she can, but she's kind of based. Waver just doesn't have the ideal mindset for a magus, he never had and he never will. That's fine, but I don't think that's quite a reason to say "mage generation can never improve." It's just that any efforts that can be made to improve generation would probably be incredibly amoral and fucked up.

>Game taking centuries and each player playing a family
That would be extremely kino but you'd need to find a group of some pretty passionate people to make multiple different characters like that.

As for the problem with magic crests, I think it's partly because they approach the limit of magic you can socket onto essentially grafted nerves from your 9th generation granddad/ma without significant optimization. It further goes into a problem that experimenting on your own magic crest is pretty taboo because if you fuck up (and you probably will), you basically undid 10 generations of research that likely can't be replicated because your insanely paranoid ancestor thought books would spy on him

It's a very fascinating setting honestly, too bad it's slow as hell

>>97703652
There's still a couple of ways to get non-knockoff phantasmal beasts probably, one of the mage facilities exists on the other side of the world after all. It's probably just really difficult and most magi are a bit too stuck up to really experiment in a crazy way. There's also the whole mystery thing, if Mages got into politics they could probably undo the decline of mystery but they choose not to though there's a fair bit of implication that this is the natural progression of history and that the counter-force WILL fuck up said magi

>>97702840
And that's if you get a reason for there not being any resources. Most of the time it's just going to be 'nope, sorry, not available'

>>97703812
>Well why not?
>That's classified son

>>97703822
Alternatively, you get promised resources and they just NEVER arrive. And when you go to complain about it they accuse you of stealing the thing you DON'T HAVE because their paperwork says you should have it, so you're the one who gets in trouble over some other fuck's mistake or willful malfeasance.

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>>97703812
Use sleepers, they're great against reality terrorism and other enemies of the union. Cheap, expandable and with no knowledge whatsoever. You have money, right? You're not one of those poorfag conventions, right?

>>97703662
yes, even if most writers forget it the progenitors are meant to be where everything related to natural science goes

bio engineering just get's most of the budget and because of that talent and screentime

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>>97703758
>There's still a couple of ways to get non-knockoff phantasmal beasts probably, one of the mage facilities exists on the other side of the world after all

Huh, I thought there was none... my concept for Ashley Kyteler's family (in the Fate game) was that since the matriarch and founder of the family is a fairy, she could venture into the other world and fetch ingredients for magi. That's why despite not being fully integrated/subjugated into magus society, and summoning demons and outer or old gods, they were relatively left intact by the clock tower.

>>97704021
>Huh, I thought there was none..
there are some you just need to find them and be prepared

one anime only casefiles has a mage accidently summon baghest (the fae dog not the lostbelt servant) and a actual portal to the fairy realm and one of the masters in fate strange fake is from a familly that wants to emulate monsters but they lost their crest a few years ago because her father found a honest to god oni in the japanese wilds and got eaten

>>97704046
I was talking about mage facilities in the world on the other side. I thought no regular mages could go there. First because only creatures from there can find their way/open a door. Second because it is simply inhospitable to humans (with Avalon being perhaps one of the few exceptions).

>>97704118
the wandering sea is technically there and part of atlas is sealed off in the reverse side, the tomb of albion has a whole that leads there and the director's office in the clocktower is still in the age of gods because the director is build differently (hinted to be solomon's son and zelretch's brother) so in there you predate the difference, but most clocktower mages are limited to facilities on earth yes

>>97704144
*the tomb of albion has a hole
dragon tried to dig to the reverse side, but the hole he made was too small for it

major element of heartless plan in casefiles

>>97704118
They're not quite "regular mages" since they're basically accepting becoming inhumans to go enter the reverse side. TATARI is the founder, after all. And he's a fucking nutjob, a virtuous nutjob maybe who means well, but he's not exactly Rin.

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>>97704144
>>97704164
>the wandering sea is technically there and part of atlas is sealed off in the reverse side
>the director's office in the clocktower is still in the age of gods because the director is build differently (hinted to be solomon's son and zelretch's brother)

Alright, I'm an anime only and wiki delver. In the latter case if it's not something that I know that I'm looking for or properly linked in other pages that I might have visited there's no chance that I've seen that. Plus last time I was doing research there was only one or two lostbelt, only in the japanese server at the time.

I also played FGO, but I got stuck in Camelott and stopped playing ever since. I have an idea of what's happening after in the singularities (except the holiday events), and no clue with the lostbelts except the barest of bones. Or esoteric stuff like someone studying the literal angels of God and suffered a fate worse than death? I don't remember.

The tomb of Albion I knew though, and again it's a creature belonging to the reverse side that made it... though the previous two places obviously change my statement about the land being inhospitable... unless the creatures living there just turbo murder humans.

I'm gonna seize the chance while I'm talking with someone that knows the lore better than me... in the game that never was, I had a thought that the matriarch would have had a servant of her own in this war. Arachne. Mainly Caster but her NP would allow her to turn into a Berserker (like PrIllya slotting both berserker and rider cards, turning into medusa). The logic is that Arachne's real talent would be in weaving mystic codes. She is the mortal that has bested a goddess at her own craft, so I thought that she could make something beyond Divine rank. Plus a cannon supporting piece of evidence is a piece of cloth of hers was handed to Seig in Apocrypha to protect him from Jack's miasma. If a shred of clothing, a rag, is that powerful... then imagine...

>>97704442
It is both FGO shit and El-Melloi shit, as well as a bunch of esoteric Nasu interviews. It's a whole load of nonsense but all the crazy lore stuff happens after Camelot. Also, a good amount of it is found in HA and the blog

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>>97704442
>I'm gonna seize the chance while I'm talking with someone that knows the lore better than me... in the game that never was, I had a thought that the matriarch would have had a servant of her own in this war. Arachne. Mainly Caster but her NP would allow her to turn into a Berserker (like PrIllya slotting both berserker and rider cards, turning into medusa). The logic is that Arachne's real talent would be in weaving mystic codes. She is the mortal that has bested a goddess at her own craft, so I thought that she could make something beyond Divine rank. Plus a cannon supporting piece of evidence is a piece of cloth of hers was handed to Seig in Apocrypha to protect him from Jack's miasma. If a shred of clothing, a rag, is that powerful... then imagine...

not sure what the question here is?
the only thing that is a bit weird in this is the rank "beyond divine rank" because we don't even have much there in the setting, swords made by the planets are divine constructs and even beings above gods like typemoon/crimson moon uses a demonic sword, but divine constructs aren't made equal and arachne is certainly someone who would have item construction at EX and possible some more cool stuff thrown at her for her legend because orion got to be grand archer because he beat artemis in archery so nasu certainly values one upping one of the twelve olympians.
also there are several casters that either can turn things into noble phantasms (fake caster in strange fake and caster of red in apo) or have made their noble phantasm (von hohenheim and caster of black to just name a few) so arachne should certainly be able to make insane divine construct tier stuff as a servant

changing classes is also okay, gilles as saber has a noble phantasm that changes his class to caster, althought that one is permanent. and assassin jekyll temporarily changes his class to berserker when he turns into hyde

(unrelated arachne design from another gatcha game)

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>>97704442
also sorry to hear that your game didn't happen, but in other news mine start again tomorow

>>97704442
>the land being inhospitable
It is unless you're
>borderline not human
>a being of pure mana
>a genetic prodigy
>an insane wizard who's already immortal
The Clocktower is basically the only bastion for human Mages

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>>97704483
Figures, also I haven't watched SF and Extra

For the Arachne talk, I had a plan that she would make a better version of the Dress of Heaven. My JoJo mind called it "Dress Over Heaven"... though conceptually I have no idea what it could do better than the original. Besides not turning to gold anyone who's not an homonculus. Or materializing the soul for more than a moment. Or doing more stuff in general, and probably don't need to kill an homonculus too

>>97704535
Oh I have run out of characters to write what I just said above.

>the only thing that is a bit weird in this is the rank "beyond divine rank" because we don't even have much there in the setting, swords made by the planets are divine constructs and even beings above gods like typemoon/crimson moon uses a demonic sword, but divine constructs aren't made equal and arachne is certainly someone who would have item construction at EX and possible

I always figured thanks to Gil (and all that mystery stuff) that Divine is the best of the best and can't be replicated today. I figured that as long as she's weaving it then Arachne could theoritically surpass that rank. Never knew about demonic swords.

>some more cool stuff thrown at her for her legend because orion got to be grand archer because he beat artemis in archery so nasu certainly values one upping one of the twelve olympians.
Not much else to her legends besides variations, but that's good to know

and yeah I knew about the other changing classes.That's what inspired me. Also the Percy Jackson one and her influence throughout the whole series.

Arachne would have been mechanically like Elise from LoL. Also some added twists and exceptions because it's Fate and nobody follows the rules. Like Item Construction -> Beyond Divine Item Construction (Weaving), and Territory Creation -> Hostile/Demonic Territory Creation = in addition to standard stuff it also makes nearly infinite colonies of spiders that can propagate and create other nests

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>>97704554
Yeah, first game with me as a player didn't happen. ST felt like he couldn't do the game right... and I feel partly responsible for putting extra pressure with me doing super extra researches because I was too excited for a Fate game. Then the second game with me as a ST got cancelled because nobody could show up at the same time or were willing to discuss their availablities.

>>97704556
Ah, I see.

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>>97701841
What, no suggestions for the rare chance to magical realm as much as possible? Ok then.

>>97703259
The rules for it in 2e's Combat supplement were somewhat better (as were most of them). Almost nothing from that book got ported forward tho sadly.

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Is he Silent Strider or Wendigo kin?

>>97700604
I wouldn't mind reading about how it goes.

>>97701841
>>97704708
Using disciplines very blatantly isn't socially acceptable anyway but maybe have a Malk advertising themselves as a sort of fortune teller. Tzimisce/Gangrel circus is another interesting one

>>97705352
>Tzimisce/Gangrel
Ah, the clowns.

>>97705385
They make good freaks, the rest of the vamps not so much

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>The Council of the Nine Mystic Traditions

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>>97705636
>mage the ascension

Hsien C*mmoners
>Snek people
>Hanumen
>Nyan (Weeb bait)
>Tanuki (Another weeb bait?!?)
>Fish people
What are your thoughts on this line-up?

>>97705822
CtD had so many splats, even the few people who played it couldn't be bothered to care about Hsien.

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>>97702840
thanks this actually helps out a ton with the general layout and backstory i have for the duo since i also plan for this to take place during covid.
>>97702855
>>97703080
changelings would work well with bataille's concept of limit experience but then again that seems to obvious. something very helpful to keep in mind regardless tho, thanks
>>97701402
>>97705127
aw thanks guys. ill post a summary of it here later today and let you know if its a train wreck or not, i feel pretty confident that ill be able to wing this tho

Hello

>>97705636
Ever heard of a centrist mage? No? There's a reason for that.

>>97705419
>venture hypnotist
>toreador acrobat
>nosferatu freak
>tremere clown
If you don't dream big, you'll never be a big top.

>>97704947
Silent Striders. The reason he's ostracized is because he chose to join one of the Wyrmbringers tribes.

>>97704625
If I remember the metaphysics right, then Divine is not a rank at all, but rather an independent trait denoting a certain spot in metanarrative hierarchy. Something bring Divine doesn't quite innately make a thing better, but gives it an unfair advantage against Mortals. So a Mortal NP vs Divinity NP of equal ranks will be decided by Divinity's superiority over humanity. That is, unless the Mortal NP has an Anti-Divine attribute, alike to Nobunaga. Then that Divine NP gets crushed, but another Mortal NP will largely be unaffected by the godslaying shit. Rock, paper, scissors.

>>97698673
Hey, how come this guy looks like a California raisin? Is this a body horror power he has, or is he just naturally ugly?

Do you ever wish Mage kept the Verb/Noun magic system from Ars Magica?

>>97706390
I used to think that, but not anymore. I feel like the sphere system is far more open and versatile.

>>97706112
Bonjour.

>>97706390
You can still use it, I just doubt it will be as entertaining in most cases.

>>97706379
>raisin
You answered your own question. Vampires that survive sunlight exposure carry the scars with them forever. Andrei has Fortitude and suffered prolonged exposure.

>>97706379
>Hey, how come this guy looks like a California raisin?
He's a Tzimisce. He can do what he wants. (sadly, he's slightly insane, so he wants to look like a freaky xenomorph)

>>97706342
How is a Tremere clown different from a regular clown?

>>97706379
He's got a terminal case of Tziggeritis. When Tziggeritis reaches its intermediate stage the patient has an uncontrollable urge to make themselves look like a fuck ugly freak on purpose.

>>97707147
>slightly

>>97707209
Slightly, relative to other Tzimisce. They all go on a scale of 0 to 1, where 0 is Sikorski and 1 is Totentanz.

I'm reading the Revised Guide to the Anarchs after the Camarilla and Sabbat guides. How do V5's books on the Camarilla, Sabbat and Anarchs compare to them? What changed in the lore, themes and tone?

>>97707187
Tbh this is one of the few redeemable V5 lore that I like that make Tzimisce more of an autistic possessive control freaks instead of earlier flanderization. I liked the Earlier Versions of disciplines but hated this part. Why cant there be a Dragon that whants to achieve human perfection once in a while and be something like a pillar men from JoJo, instead of some fuckugly necroscope monstrosities?

>>97707233
I also liked the broadening of their weakness, myself. Can still be grave soil easily, since most Tzimisce care more about muh lands than anything else, but the irony of the utterly inhuman clan being forced to keep a token to their human identity close to them is great.

>>97707231
Camarilla is more shut in and is more controlled. Intracommonucations via modern technology became limited. Tremere got blown up and are severely weakened (they deserved it). Brujah and Gangrel left, but Assamites and Lasombra (half the clan) joined. Some Tzimisce occasionally crash in but they hate being bossed around (but not when they do the bossing. Tzigger mentality, please understand) so they usually leave for the Anarchs. Still some remain like that Jap Tzigger in Tokyo.
Anarchs are more popular now and have more folks joining in. With most of the elders suffering from the war with the vampire hunters and beckoning, higher generation have relatively more freedom and seceded from camarilla. This is also the group where most of the Tzimisce reside, as well as Setians (who tried, and failed, to join Camarilla).
Sabbat did fuck all when beckoning happened and lost most of the followers to Camarilla (Lasombra) and Anarchs (Tzimisce). They still have a fang, but not that much.

The Tremere are fucking poseurs, they go around talking about magical power when they've long since lost all ability to use magic in the first place, and instead they use bootlegged Koldunism.
The tossers never shut up about how important their bloody Temu witchcraft is to the UHMW Tower, because Caine forbid the Ventrue don't get to sound with the enchanted dowsing rods while the Toreador shove their hands so far up their "masters'" asses that the ventriloquist's dummy looks on in jealousy

>>97707233
As much as I love to dunk on Tziggers, I gotta break character for a second and say that you have pre V5 examples of non gigerpenis Tzimisce. V5's take on them reads to me like an entirely different clan.

Trying to achieve the "perfect body" is already an entirely reasonable Tzimisce thing. It might buck against clan orthodoxy a little bit, but only because the clan likes to revel in inhumanity, and thus idealizing the human form would be seen as needlessly restrictive. But saying that prevents you from playing the character is like saying you can't play a Toreador with a niche artistic interest, or a Gangrel who thinks living like a hobo is gross.

>>97707260
Any idea on why did the writers went out of their way to make the Hecata the last Independents and the Sabbat devoid of clans?

>>97707345
V5 was made by an insular LARP group with very strong opinions on what the game "should be".

That's not a joke, it's a matter of public record. It has since been democratized by being contracted out to various different developers, but the original writers basically wanted to remake the setting in their image. Which involved removing the Sabbat, making the Camarilla retarded, the Anarchs into the perfect precious baby boy (because they believed them to align with their IRL political beliefs), and they didn't know wtf to do with the necromancy balkans so they shoved them into necromancy yugoslavia and pretended that would be fine.

>>97707359
What I don't understand is, wouldn't the Tzimisce be Indies too and call anybody who joins a Sect an Antitribu and a bunch of other names? Aren't they the most obvious clan imaginable to act like that, together with, say, the Giovanni?

>>97707251
Yeah, that one as well. Its actually a neat detail that emphasizes more about them as a tyrannical ruler clan aspect that are, ironically, bound to their possessions themselves as much as their property is bound to them.
>>97707318
>V5's take on them reads to me like an entirely different clan.
I dont really think so. It sounds more like that the Dracul version of them became a mainstream depiction, with the difference that now the entire clan has Dominate and moniker of the "Old Clan". I do miss the older discipline distribution, with Vicissitude being its own thing and Most Tzimisce having Auspex instead of dominate, making it one of the rarer ruler clans that actually had to think about rulership, instead of simply brainwashing their way like Ventrue, Toreadors, and Lasombra (I know that Auspex could do it as well, but not on the level of Dominate and Presence). Still, I do like V5 Dracul interpretation of them.
>>97707345
It was political for the most part. They wanted to make Anarchs more popular and Camarilla more dickish because authority is evil o algo.
Also they tried to "simplify" the setting and making it more "fluid and beginner friendly" and customize your character as you want.. What really resulted out of this was the fact that most clans lost their unique flavor. Like how Vicissitude was limited to Tzimisce and Obtenebration to Lasombra. Now they're just amalgamations of Dominate with Protean and Oblivion respectively. this means a Gangrel and Nosferatu that acquire Dominate can learn that as well. Speaking of which, now Dominate is available to half of the clans and everyone can spam brainwashing for some reason. Making Ventrue even more bland and pathetic than before.
Despire some good parts of the lore, its overall a shitshow heavy with retarded woke ideas of cuckolded Swedish faggots.

>>97707162
The slut glasses presumably.

>>97707420
>customize your character as you want
But we already had Caitiff and Thin Bloods showing up with uncommon discipline combinations, and more classic vampires with dots in out-of-clan disciplines even at character creation? The system let you make special snowflakes out of the box, what more freedom could they possible give a player or ST?
>Despire some good parts of the lore
Any examples? What did V5 get right, lorewise?

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>>97707439
Slut glasses? Wait the red tinted ones? Because Setites wear them too.

>>97707400
I'd argue that being a member of the sect grants them more broader field of control, which they compulsively crave. Being Autarkis would limit their reach and would be at constant risk of attack from every side. plus, if you're a loner AND lower generation (most of the Tzimisce are), it makes you a diablerie bait. As much as an average Tzimsice can be a murdering war machine and assemble entire armies of fleshcrafted monstrosities, anyone can ultimately fall to the mass assault of shovelheads and retards over prolonged periods of war. This was learned the hard way during the Omen wars when most of the Tzimisce were uncooperative with eachother, while Tremere were tightly bend together and gained the backing of Ventrue.
So being an Anarch is a bet middle way for the Tzimisce. They are free enough to establish and expand their own domains and being reasonably dickish and tyrannical, while answering to no one, but at the same time having allies and political network that shields them from potential attacks.
At least thats my reasoning why they would be there.

>>97699339
Wod5 is so lore bare, teethles, boring getting old content is required unless you want to play American Liberal college number 4365
In Liberal American city number 5106
It was sold as a continuation but everything has been recond little old lore makes sense
Just use Chronicals for personal stories and low meta plot
With 20 and classic for high meta plot
My personal favorite is W20 mixed with Changling the lost and Sin Eater lore

>>97707162
All Tremere are clowns but not all clowns are Tremere

>>97707464
Setites are sluts too

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These are the stats of a nearly 600 year old Nephandi slut. Thoughts? Personally I think she wasted a ton of xp that could have gone on spheres or good backgrounds.

>>97707444
>What did V5 get right
I guess its less about "getting right" and more about personal preferences. Asides the more "Dracul" version of Tzimisce, I like the relatively more insularity of the political domains that is now present due to restriction of communication, as well as more organized involvement of vampire hunters in general (SoL was involved in earlier versions as well, but it wasnt the same level as nowadays).
Mechanicwise, I also like blood potency. For me, thats about it, I guess.

>>97707261
Calm down, my Tzigga. They're still your bloodline. Dont be so harsh on your family.

>>97707400
If you're thinking logically, sure. You have to understand that V5 was written from the mindset of "this is what I want to do, now how do I justify it?" instead of "how would x likely respond to y?"

Many Tzimisce already operate as de facto if not de jure autarkis. That being said they joined the Sabbat for multiple reasons, the biggest being they learned that no amount of turtling can let you win when your foes outnumber and more importantly, can outspend you. So most are in the Sabbat for the manpower it provides. The problem of course is downwind from "eh let's just have the Sabbat fuck off to the middle east to die."

>>97707420
>Dracul
Which "dracul" would that be? The True Black Hand guys who hate Vicissitude? The loose alliance of eastern european boomers? Or the kolduns (which some people think means old clan for some reason)? I can't stand that part of Tzimisce lore. Someone declared they were the Dracula Clan and then the writers came up with several different weird justifications for them being the Dracula clan. They're a different clan to me because they only share one discipline with pre-V5 Tzimisce, have a different clan curse, and got whitewashed to boot.

As the Tziggerposter in chief, I don't actually hate Tzimisce. I think they have way more going on than a lot of people, including Tzimisce fans, give them credit for. I honestly want them to cut the umbilical on the tenuous dracula shtick so more interesting parts of the clan can shine, and for broods other than the Carpathian and Greek Tzimisce to shine.

Though I would agree that being a clan that wants to rule, but that lacks any social discipline, is an excellent dynamic.

>>97707613
>Which "dracul" would that be?
Second one but more broader, I guess. Basically being tyrannical and brutal rulers, but more control oriented and territorial over their domains compared to other aristocratic clans, instead of necroscope freaks. I admittedly disliked the "they hate Vicissitude" part as it sort of ruined one of the key aspect of the overall uniqueness of the Tzimisce and made them more like other ruler clans (not to mention that them being in Tal'Mahe'Ra while claiming to be weary of Antediluvian influence seemed kind of retarded to me).
At the end, I like the balanced interpretation that combine the orientation of the Dracul as control obsessed greedy autists, but at the same time that viewed Vicissitude as an effective (and horrifying) tool to be used to enforce their domination, but not the end in itself with some bizarre philosophical mumbo-jumbo.

>>97707675
*that views

Do weapons made with Arsenal of Flesh and Bone burn in sunlight? I‘m not sure, since the corpse of a vampire does not burn up by morning after they suffer final death, does it?

>>97700825
Still kino

>>97701841
Baali

>No mom, you don’t understand! I can’t get a job because it’ll leave me no time for what actually matters. As Sir Alucard ap Ailil, I need to infiltrate the local Duchy and have my lackeys keep tabs on all the influential players. I have too many strings to pull to get a job like some Commoner. Now begone from me, woman. I have important work to do.
Do Changelings really?

>>97707904
she should be honored.
the soul of her son was permanently destroyed just so his hollow empty body can be used as banality-insulating wallpaper by a haughty Sidhe knight

>>97707974
Changelings try not to be evil challenge: impossible

>>97707974
I thought Dreaming changelings have two souls in them?

>>97708449
Almost all of them do. The Sidhe being the glaring exception. When they got evicted from Arcadia in the Resurgence, they didn’t walking the Changeling way like some commoners. They resorted to body snatching. With the host’s original soul supposedly being sent to Arcadia. Supposedly.

>>97698404
Was watching lore videos on the reboot setting and they basically removed the Get of Fenris by making them go bonkers? Why? Given modern politics, I have to imagine it was because of the Sword of Heimdall controversy, but those guys got violently purged by the mainstream Get in canon and were never a majority.

Deciding that the Get were too toxic, but leaving the Red Talons in seems insane to me no? Is that just me? Surely if you were gonna regard a Tribe as problematic it would be the ones who think humans are cattle to be eaten?

>>97708584
To be clear I don’t think they should have removed either, and I dislike large parts of this versions lore in general, but come on lol

Also not sure what was up with canning Métis, given they were one of the great tragedies of the Garou. Muh eugenics?

>>97708498
Doesn't this just make more Fae/Sidhe? Also, damn that's kind of based

>>97708584
>>97708591
There's a couple of things to unpack here
>Why did Get get canned
Primarily, Swords of Heimdall provided a convenient excuse to blanket call all the Gets neonazi chuds and get rid of them. In truth, a fair amount of players probably appreciated the Viking Berserker fantasy for somewhat racist reasons and the visual theming the Get used have been coopted in recent memory by Right Wing larpers, but this isn't a good reason to anyone with critical thinking skills. Of course, the main writer of W5 hated Werewolf the Apocalypse, so what can you expect? As for a second part of it, the Get are also being used to provide a neutral antagonistic faction much like the Anarchs are to Camarilla vampires. It's kind of retarded though, since the Red Talons are much more into the whole fight now kill humans kill the wyrm bit that the Cult of Fenris plays around with, except they don't have the same nu-racist visual theming and are basically just mutts so whatever.

>Why no Metis
Several reasons, for one Kinfolk got removed entirely and replaced with a still somewhat abusive but less feudalistic and rapey alternative human allies bit in the lore. The lack of Kinfolk and the way Garou reproduction in the nu-book doesn't guarantee more Garou means they can skip the whole Kinfolk breeding and abusive dark romance bits and just can Metis and their whole reason for existing. This also helps them to simplify the whole breed thing they skip over and ignore, wolfborn Garou still exist but they aren't playable so less work for the writers.

>tldr nu-Writers absolutely hated WtA when making W5

>>97708689
>since the Red Talons are much more into the whole fight now kill humans kill the wyrm bit that the Cult of Fenris plays around with, except they don't have the same nu-racist visual theming and are basically just mutts so whatever.

I mean, I guess but honestly, it really feels like they are playing down the cultural aspects of the different tribes in general, which is ironically making things *less* diverse. Like the Native American stuff in a couple of the tribes was waaaaay more prominent in the older versions etc

Also the Black Furies accepting lots of male members now just feels retarded. Though I guess the child trading arrangement they have with the Get isn’t a thing anymore, and they don’t want to go back to knifing them on altars lol

>>97708747
Well yes, they are. That's explicitly one of the changes they made for W5 because they thought old tribes were too culturally distinct and therefore racist and chud. Black Furies are now The Punisher (Werewolf ed) among other things, the Fianna are now longer Drunk Irish/Celtic Sex Demons with Fae Blood and became instead moderately wholesome party bros Hart Wardens who's job is kind of keeping the vibe up and the pack happy

>>97708783
Holy shit, is there a splat they didn't fuck up? I don't think I've ever seen anyone happy about 5e lore changes.

>>97708796
Ehhh... V5 is playable and mostly 1-1? Just gay? Werewolf 5 isn't comparable in the slightest to W20 and previous, but it's technically "playable" in the most surface way possible. HtR is dead, full stop. H5 is more like Hunter's Hunted gay edition. Mage is next on the chopping block, allegedly.

If there's a silver lining though, Mage is being worked on by people that actually liked Mage and not by people that either played a niche microcosm of VtM like Swede larpers (V5) or guys who straight up think WtA is for racist chud lore grugs that they hate

>>97708813
>mostly 1-1?

Strongly disagree. It's just that W5 is so radically different it makes V5 look better by comparison, a courtesy V5 does not deserve.

Demon: The Hazbins

Are you ready

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>>97708844
Only if we can fuck Hellspawn.

>>97708829
That's fair and probably more true than my previous point, I just mean that if you play a pre V5 VtM game and then play V5 a lot of the surface elements look identical until you look too deeply into the books. W5 is basically a different game entirely

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>>97708844
I see the vision.

>>97708879
>least deranged tzigger koldun

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>>97708584
>Get of Fenris
It was believed that the Get of Fenris could serve as a trojan horse for white supremacists to turn the setting into a vehicle for their ideology.
>Red Talons
They are no longer wolf-exclusive and while they do believe that nature must be protected from humanity and some humans must be culled, they are nowhere near as genocidal as the old Red Talons, nor are they connected to any sort of political movement.
>>97708591
>Metis
In W5, no one knows what makes someone Garou. While some werewolf bloodlines exist, the concept of 'breeds' do not and bloodlines aren't the only way for new werewolves to occur. Any human or wolf could potentially become a werewolf, though no one knows the reasons why. Gaia works in mysterious ways.
>>97708747
>Wendigo and Uktena
Wendigo are now Galestalkers, werewolves who revolve around hunting. Uktena are now the Ghost Council, who revolve around unearthing secret knowledge. They are no longer connected to any particular culture.
>Black Furies
They now revolve around punishing social injustice of any sort. They are no longer connected to any particular culture or any specific gender.
>Fianna
They originally kept the name, but it had to be changed after a lead writer made a gaff and said that it is "just a word," when it's a culturally important Gaelic word. They are now called Hart Wardens and revolve around protecting territory and are no longer connected to any particular culture.
>>97708796
>>97708829
>In conclusion
Werewolf the Apocalypse has always been weird in a way that lots of people don't like, including the designers of W5. They culled all of the weirdness that they disliked and replaced it with nothing of substance, hence the hollow, incomplete and soulless nature of W5.

>>97708796
>V5: Welcome to modern times! Imagine all the creative uses you'll find for modern technology! See how vampire society changes with the times! Sounds great? Fuck you, enjoy being a shitter nobody hunted down by quantum CIA for sending a text message.
>W5: That's right, we fixed it for the "modern audience"! No more kinfolk (that's sexist / rapist / other buzzword) no chuddy tribes! Even the feminist got diverse! Also, Pentex won lmao.
>H5: No magical shizos! That's ok, you'll be a scared shitter nobody forever. What? You want to use the global hunter conspiracy to get shit done? Too bad, you can't work for The Man, that's le bad! To make you feel better we took the liberty of changing the lore of OG hunters cuz lol.
Just imagine what they'll do to Mage...

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>>97705822
>Tanuki
You're telling me those fuckers are canon in WoD???

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>>97709161
M5 will just be a bunch of social commentary about the atomised nature of society and how there is no shared consensus any longer, with the internet allowing people to divide themselves into increasingly extreme bubbles and radicalise themselves. M5 will strongly encourage the player-characters to abandon any bizarre or radical notions about the world that they have, live reasonable lives grounded in reality and abandon magic entirely.

>>97709191
>Pic
That's something I can see them actually doing, pretty scary.

>>97709158
>It was believed that the Get of Fenris could serve as a trojan horse for white supremacists to turn the setting into a vehicle for their ideology.

“Karim” here from the pfp makes a very dumb point. The Get did a Night of Long Knives and purged the Nazi Wolves the old fashion way. They recognized their mistake in tolerating them and acted to correct it. I’m not sure what course of action they could possibly have taken that would have been better than this. They weren’t perfect, yeah. They shouldn’t have shrugged it off to begin with.

But you know who else had fucking crazy people in them? The Red Talons were torturing children to death to fuel illegal blood magic, the Furies used to sacrifice male children to their totem spirit, and *everyone* was guilty for what happened to the Bunyip. Feels very infant tier to not be able to acknowledge that factions can be nuanced. The Get fucked up, and then Get put their house in order.

>>97709414
the problem is not the nation. It's that they think neo-nazis players congregate to them

>>97709429
Do Wahabists flock to the Banu Haqim?
Dumb

>>97708654
>Doesn't this just make more Fae/Sidhe?
not human souls just desolve after a while in the dreaming unless you been enchanted upon your death then you turn into something called Keremet a semi ghost semi fae thing (who sadly can't learn arcanoi)

but house balor in a supringly pet the dog kinda moment allow the keremet to smuggle the souls of the newborn bodies that the sidhe steal into the shadowlands using The Black Paths of Balor... which of course will turn most of them into stripling spectres, but hey they don't know that because any of the fae they send into the shadowlands never call back and it's the thought that counts!

>>97709161
>changing the lore of OG hunters cuz lol.
So what did they change? I thought they only added new factions.

>>97709464
From what I understand Hunter powers sort of work like triggers from Worm now?

>>97709467
This sentence is meaningless without additional context.

>>97709467
?

>>97709467
i am sorry i never read worm so i also have no idea what you just said

I've never really like having both Hunters and Mages being normal humans surrounded by monsters. If you had to cut one or the other, which would it be?

>>97709464
I think they completely changed SoL's lore but I could be wrong

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Daily reminder that both Cainites and Sethites are still sons of Adam and daughters and Eve.
Instead of being at eachothers' throats, mankind should stand together and exterminate Werewolves, Demons and similar non-human abominations.

>>97709191
>four pixels
Anyway, a Mage reboot would be all about Ideology. Sleepers are apolitical and blind to what's really going on. Of you try and expose The Lie you'll either break their brains or you'll get locked away because sleepers assume yoy have some kind of lovecraftian madness. Mages are politically active people. Good guys will be anarchists and communists, and bad guys will he fascists and liberals.

>>97709559
>Children of Adam & Eve was right there
People are so against using existing gender neutral language that they'd rather double their word count for no reason.

>>97709572
Or, get this, people sometimes like more poetic expressions. Not everything is about your retarded politics, get your head out of the gutter.
plus, the expression got stuck in my head with "Crucible of God" Tremere ritual episode

>>97709161
>>97709191
Allegedly the people Paradox grabbed for M5 at least like Mage, and Mage is a lot less problematic than Werewolf or Hunter/Vampire, so I'll be cautiously optimistic. I'm not expecting anything genuinely great, but we'll see.

>>97709546
Don’t Hunters have de facto superhuman stats sort of like Witchers? At least That was one of the editions. Most aren’t really comparable to a mundane generic hobo with a sword.

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>>97709559
>Daily reminder that both Cainites and Sethites are still sons of Adam and daughters and Eve.
No

>>97709546
Mage. Neither version is to my liking.

>>97709588
>Mage
>a lot less problematic than Werewolf

nope.avi

You could start in any number of places about its foibles for this. Pushing Hermetic paradigms into everything? Its continual issues with the concept of consensus? The Verbena Iron Circle, which the Verbena weren't written as having killed off? Dig just a bit, and a landfill shows itself.

>>97709546
Every "monster" is ultimately just a normal human but spicy. That said they both do the whole schizophrenia thing so it doesn't matter too much, I'd say Hunter is more reactive and doesn't really place well within the setting nearly as much as Mage

>>97709624
I guess it still does the chud modernity bad thing that nu-writers tend to hate

Did the Camarilla know about Epstein?

>>97709624
>Mage is totally worse than Werewolf
Ha! Literally what if a bunch of white people wrote noble savage tribes that also have nazis for some reason.

>>97709546
>>97709657
this
In the world of darkness humans are surrounded by monsters, such as.... uuuuuhhhh
>dead blooddrinking humans
>furry treehugging humans
>magical need humans
Arguably, only real monsters in the setting are demons and fae. And even then low torment demons can appear and be less monstrous.

>>97709572
>Doesn't recognize the phrase from The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe and does a knee-jerk anti-woke screech
Illiterate.

>>97709736
>phrase from The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe
>Cainites and Sethites

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>The Masquerade: Vampire Mafia with bible references
>The Apocalypse: Wearwolves and shit
>The Ascension: Magic VS Tech
>The Oblivion: Spooky Ghosts ooOOOooo
>The Dreaming: ????????????????
>The Reckoning: Holy shit we're actual humans in this shit
I think that's the World of Darkness™, I legit have now idea how Changeling works

>>97709818
Dreaming are just Otherkin. "you're not a human, you're a fairy soul trapped in a human body, and you need to be as chuuni as possible as long as you can to keep the banality of mortal life at bayor your fairy soul dies."

>>97709767
Yes, Narnia predates WoD.

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So what the fuck is that? Are blue men common in the more obscure modules?

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>>97709887
>Are blue men common

>>97709887
Nobody's certain what he is, given that stated and observed biases of the writers, he's probably some flavor of umbrafaggotry. Could be a wyrm or weaver spirit depending on how you read his GROWTH speech.

>>97709158
>Werewolf the Apocalypse has always been weird in a way that lots of people don't like, including the designers of W5.

As one of those people, I still find the way they handled it distasteful. I don't like WtA, so I just... wouldn't touch it. I don't get the mindset of hating something, so you release a new version of it that's actually something completely different. Either don't make it, or make it clear you're making a DIFFERENT game about werewolves. Is such a basic courtesy really beyond these people? and being perfectly honest, there are parts of apoc I like, but it's outweighed by the parts I don't like.

>>97709937
>Nobody's certain what he is
I mean, lolbertarian who thinks drinking colloidal silver will make him live forever is the accurate answer.

>>97709956
The core issue on that is that Paradox is not a tabletop company. They bought it from CCP because they wanted to make games, and grudgingly let OPP keep making 20th/CofD because it was essentially free revenue while a licensee with a perpetual license did all the work.

But, of course, they wanted to "update" WoD to bring it to modern times, but rather than just having OPP do 5th, they licensed it out to a studio that does other licensed TTRPGs, like Power Rangers and My Little Pony.

>>97709956
I love hearing opinions that lead to arguments, inform us then anon: what do you dislike about apoc?
>>97709977
This is very correct, they bought it pretty much to profit off of Bloodlines and fumbled every opportunity. Iirc they tried to do 5th mainly as a tie-in and a way to get interest going in WoD for Bloodlines 2 as they kept running into dev problems. No idea why Paradox (who at the time of 2015 owned multiple RPG studios and had contacts in a lot of third party studios) bought the thing and then let the IP rot until one of the writers pitched a Bloodlines 2 game. Something about Swedish jewry

>>97709684
There are Fomori (and by extension Banes,) and Specters too, but your average Joe is unlikely to ever encounter them

>>97709672
>greentext
Not what I actually posted, but keep on having fun with that conversation in your head, anon.

>>97709977
>Having OPP do 5th

4th, actually. Onyx Path didn't count the anniversary edition as another edition like NuWW would, and Eddy Webb was drafting up a 4th edition goal statement when Paradox started shitting the bed from the very first press conference.

>>97709818
>The Dreaming: Born to dilly-dally, forced to lock in

>>97709818
What about The Resurrection and The Fallen?

>>97710027
In what way did Paradox start shitting the bed so early?

>>97710077
Lets just start with "we watched an MMO company completely fumble making an MMO with it, so we, a baroque Strategy game group could totally buy it and make a followup to Bloodlines! Let's buy it!"

>>97710129
They could have had so many kino strategy games... oh well. Paradox moment

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What exactly can Gangrel claws cut through? Is it just flesh and bone, or could I be cutting through doors and stuff aswell?

>>97710169
>could I be cutting through doors and stuff aswell?
You would need Potence for that

Need that Thallain pussy

>>97710050
>local chippy no longer chappy

Uohhhhhhhhh! !! !! Childling erotic !!!!!! Childlings's belly and chest !!!!!! Erotic …