>What do you need to remember about DBs, be they PCs or otherwise?

They're nobles and have a complex social network. Pain in the butt desu.

>>97721181
>TQ
I've only ST'd Exalted, but I've run two Dragon-Blooded campaign. One was about finding a recovering a bunch of family heirloom Artifacts that'd been looted off the battlefield of Battle of Futile Blood by an unknown party, the other about three young Dragon-Blooded arriving in Greyfalls and making their mark there.

>>What do you need to remember about DBs, be they PCs or otherwise?
What >>97721338 said. Also, if we're talking about 3E, that Aura fucking sucks.

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>>97721181
damn solars got cucked again

>>97722363
Did they? I'd rather be an animalet than have my icon be a fucking flower.

>>97721861
If we're talking about 3e, we should also mention that they decided to make gender roles fucking weird in the Realm for literally no reason. You are supposed to believe that literally every militarily accomplished male Dragonblooded is an outlier, like Reverse Mulan.

>>97723404
>You are supposed to believe that literally every militarily accomplished male Dragonblooded is an outlier, like Reverse Mulan
It's funny because I'm pretty sure that of the military Dragonblood we're aware of males outnumber females significantly. It only makes sense if you only look at iconics and only see Arada and Roseblack and want to make it into a political statement, but if you look at named characters you find like half of the mentioned DBs in Cathak are guys in the legion.

>What do you need to remember about DBs, be they PCs or otherwise?
I have never played one in 3e, but from what I gather they can only operate at approximately Solar tier under extremely narrow conditions and I don't know how that interacts with 3e's "Pay and Slay" combat.

>>97723528
3e even had to retcon some to be women

>>97723404
3E's gender roles are weird mostly because the degree of gender bias is inconsistent. Males can obviously go all to way to the top, but some parts of the fluff point to a degree of bias that seems inconsistent with that. Personally, I just assume that the 1E sidebar about gender stereotypes and discrimination applies.

>>97723963
Tbh I think that kibd of retconning actually makes sense. The Realm was always supposed to have some degree of bias favoring women, but actually looking at canon DB NPCs didn't really fit that at all.

Hmm.

>Upgraded Profane Words allows the Infernal to inflict a Torment on anyone in close range (whether or not the Infernal is understood) with a Torment
>Expansive Form lets the Infernal count as one rangeband closer or further for the purposes of attacks (or 3 range bands, but that makes the Infernal immobile which is kind of a severe tradeoff) meaning the Infernal can now attack out to medium range
>But also there are Infernal Brawl/Melee Charms that are themselves innately short ranged (2 rangebands)
…am I forgetting how rangebands work, or can Infernals in Devil-Body potentially hit out to extreme range. With fucking Melee/Brawl Charms? Potentially including grapple gambits?

>>97724036
I’d be more confident assuming the 1e sidebar still applies if 3e didn’t get so weirdly pushy and contrived about the Realm being a matriarchy, desu. I would actually be more fine with it if they played it up as being the cult of the Empress’ personality spiralling out of control or something, it’s specifically how low effort and out of place it feels while upending nomic assumptions of the Realm that makes it dumb.

That and demon summoning being treated as a totally acceptable excuse for nonbinary gendered Dragonblooded to avoid consummating their house duties with how tightly sorcery is supposed to be policed in the Realm

>>97724075
To clarify, I'm intentionally choosibg to make sense of DB gender dynamics by going with the 1E sidebar and retconning for my games anything that obviously conflicts it. As for procreation through demon summoning, yes, it's pretty dumb. I don't think it should be illegal, but it should be stigmatized, though less so than childlessness or, I dunno, poor Breeding. It'd be a good source for the kind of fantastic prejudice thst'd be weird and different from real world but still grounded in the sense of making obvious sense in the context. Like, maybe Ledaal Timmy has two dads, and no one has a problem with that, but it's whispered that he was spun together by a neomah, and that's something other kids give him shit for. Fictitious societies being free of prejudice feels pretty unbelievable, but fictitious societies having different ideas about what's acceptable and what's not from any real life societies is fine and even neat, as long as those ideas fit the setting.

It is always funny how 3efags use the sidebar that says "ultimately, what matters is if somebody is Dragon-Blooded or not" to justify 3e schizo lore.

>>97724204
Who's doing that? So far there's not a single post in this thread saying that 3E lore is okay or makes sense. Also the sidebar says that whether you're a DB or not is what matters the most but that there's a bunch of other stuff, including sex, that also matters.

>>97724218
1e is consistent, despite men suffering stereotypes, the ultimate matter is if they are Dragon-Blooded (the princes of earth) or not.
Because of this, 1e had so many Dragon-Blooded men in positions of power, and it wasn't seen as a big deal.

>>97724249
1E is consistent until you read the individual character writeups and realize that ratio of men to women they represent does not reflect any kind of bias favoring women, which the sidebar in question does explicitly say exists. Nobody ITT has said that there shouldn't be plenty of Dragon-Blooded men in power, and closest thing to supporting 3E lore here is saying that some amount of rewriting NPCs does actually make sense in order for the gender bias - which, again, 1E explicitly states to exist but to not be that big of a deal compared to whether one is Exalted or not - to show in those NPC writeups. Something like, I dunno, maybe 3 women for every 2 men in the highest echelons of power in the Realm, with the default image of an authority figure being a Dynastic household matriarch but with men in positions of authority not being inconvenienced by their genders, with people by default talking about the next Empress when wondering about the Scarlet Empress' possible successors but with it not really being a huge shocker if there was an Emperor instead, that's the degree of bias I'd like to see and that I generally imagine when running Exalted.

>>97724287
Only for mortals, ultimately Dragon-Blooded men don't suffer discrimination because they are the princes of the earth.

Ironically enough, it is the same excuse 3efags use to defend queers from being discriminated against in 3e.

>>97724287
>with the default image of an authority figure being a Dynastic household matriarch
This is an entirely 3e thing, some 1e houses didn't even have a singular figurehead.

>>97724287
Actually scratch there being more male than female House heads, it's closer to an even spread. Regardless, NPC writeups not reflecting the supposed gender bias is the problem, and it's a real problem, 3E overcorrected that problem something fierce, and the ideal point of balance would be closer to the previous editions than 3E, but it wouldn't be as devoid of gender inequality as previous editions were in practice.

>>97724304
That is not what the sidebar says, anon. It says that Exaltation matters more than whether you have a penis or a vagina, not that gender doesn't matter for DBs. Looking at a sidebar saying that men are generally paid less, promoted less frequently and treated as somewhat irresponsible - while also noting that "individual circumstances often differ from the norm" and that this is "more of a glass ceiling than a genuine limit" - and coming to the conclusion that the sidebar says that there's no gender discrimination in the Dynasty requires a pretty colossaf failure of reading comprehension.

>>97724339
It says that exaltations are the ultimate factor.

It is hard to you to understand, but 1e's Dragon-Blooded are the princes of earth, who ended up ruling the Realm.
Instead of being the princes of earth because the rule the realm

>>97724353
Sure. Saying otherwise would imply that mortals might be promoted over Dragon-Blooded if they had something going on for them. I don't think anyone has claimed that. Saying that Exaltation matters the most is a statement about relative positions of mortals and Dragon-Blooded, not about the factors affecting one Dragon-Blooded advancing in their career faster and towards greater heights than another.

>>97724339
>individual circumstances often differ from the norm
People kind of forgot that being an exalted is one of the said individual circumstances.
Lyta stopped being seen as a human by her parents once it got clear that she wasn't going to Exalt.
And male Dragon-Blooded bulling a mortal female wasn't seen as a big deal.

>>97724381
I think that in tthis context Exaltation isn't actually one of those individual circumstances. We're talking about whether those 10000+ Dragon-Blooded the Realm has are equal to each other, here, and obviously in this context Exaltation's a shared trait they all have.

>>97724393
It is, 1e wasn't a matriarchal thing like 3e, they were Dragon-Blooded supremacists first and foremost.

>>97724405
Anon, are you reading the posts you're replying to? Do you understand at all what it means when I say that the question here is about equality between these Dragon-Blooded supremacist Dragon-Blooded, not about equality or lack thereof between Dragon-Blooded and anyone else? Like, this should go without saying, but not all DBs are equal, there's a bunch of different things giving some of them advantages over others, some of these things are age, experience, individual competence and achievements, Breeding and relationhsips to other, especially elder and higher-ranked Dragon-Blooded, but on of them is also gender. Yes, it absolutely true that Dynasts are DB supremacist and Realm supremacists first and foremost, and literally no one, and that means literally no one including 3E devs, has denied that. That has next to nothing to do with my point, though.

What a confusing conversation. In what world is boring ass dragon blooded supremacists better then a matriarchal empire. They're not even mutually exclusive. I'm also pretty sure the whole "Women are the ones who wear the pants" was a thing since 1e. This game-line is for the gays after all.

>>97724452
Dragon-Blooded supremacist were too busy bulling outcastes and lost eggs.

>>97724473
....Outcastes and Lost Eggs, who are also Dragon-Blooded? Anyways, gender bias is explicitly stated, so I've genuinely no idea why anyone would even bother trying to argue it wasn't. I guess people like this >>97724469
overstating the bias invite a counter reaction, but really, the 1E DB book just outright, perfectly clearly, says that there is a gender bias but that there are also other factors that matter more than gender. It's not exactly ambiguous.

It's not really overstating when the setting has always been like that.

>>97724500
But they aren't of the same "sphere" similar thing happens to their mortal relatives.

>>97724535
It's overstating when it's not what the setting's always been like. 1E was clear that gender bias existed but mattered less than a lot of other things, that there were no absolute limits to how high men could rise, that there plenty of men leading the Great Houses, and that whoever succeeded the Empress might well be a man. It feels weird as fuck to argue both for and against female-favoring bias in the same thread, but it's even weirder how some people can read "there's some bias" as "there's really no bias" and some as "there's absolutely huge bias and women run the show". Why not just go with there being some bias but not an overhwelming about of it? That's what the published material in 1E actually says.

>>97724569
I'm not even sure what your arguement is at this point. I thought it was that 1e Dragon Bloods weren't matriarchal. Now it's what, that 3e is way more more matriarchal then previous editions? Because I'm pretty sure males do rise to prominent positions in 3e.

It feels like you're saying 3e is more sexist towards males or something.

>>97724569
1e needed to show more mortals interacting on the Blessed Isle and in satrapies without DBs around. Then have the DBs show up and have everyone snap to "acting normally" around them. If the prejudice is toward mortals only, you should at least show mortals acting out on it on other mortals at least once.

>>97724585
The argument is stated quite clearly in the post you replied to, as well as in other posts ITT.

>>97724592
I mean, I doubt the prejudice was supposed to be mortal only. Nothing says it is, and it's stated to exist in a book geared towards giving information about Dragon-Blooded for the purpose of facilitating playing Dragon-Blooded. 1E wasn't super interested in detailing the "common" society of the Blessed Isle, in general, though obviously there was some info on that. The focus was understandably on the Exalted and infromation needed to play and understand them, though.

>>97721181
>>97722363
So the surrounding them at Glowing. If they turn sideface would it still be at their sides or would it now be around their front and back. And if the latter, shouldn't that mean its obscuring their face when you look at them, or does the anima know which way people are looking?

Since they're literally made of very rare magical components including the five magical metals plus adamant, could an Alchemical repurpose bits of their own body to make artifacts, including Alchemical charms?

>>97725166
No, the soul-gem prevents it

>>97721181
yes, it was an all type mix game and the gm told me that he would balance things out so i wouldnt fall behind. he didnt. he retired at 1/3 of the game after being easily outclassed at everything. became a martial art sifu.

>>97725166
in 2nd ed, a dead alchemical contain enough magical material of their caste to make "essence rating of the dead alchemical" artifact of rating 5.

>>97724535
Look, I’m going to be blunt: It wasn’t. If Exalted ever seemed this incoherently biased in favour of the author’s politics instead of being about an interesting setting, I’d have never gotten this invested in it. 3e would’ve been a terrible way to win me over to both the game and setting.

>>97724469
>In what world is boring ass dragon blooded supremacists better then a matriarchal empire
…in a setting where it’s far, far easier to believe there is a coherent reason for demigods to both directly and indirectly enforce a caste system in favour of themselves rather than gender roles being totally inverted for no coherent reason? If I wanted to read A Brother’s Price instead of play a Dragonblooded man from the Realm who doesn’t have to go through life being asked why he won’t stay at home and have children, I’d read A Brother’s Price.

>This action may only be directed at an opponent within short range of the character, and it may explicitly be used even after taking a reflexive
move action. A rush action is a contested (Dexterity + Athletics) roll between the character and an opponent at short range. If the rushing character is successful, then as soon as his opponent moves a range band, he will immediately and reflexively move one range band toward that opponent, keeping pace. This reflexive movement does not count as a movement action, and so it can occur
outside the character’s turn, regardless of whether he has already taken a movement action that round.
>Characters must have some means of reaching an opponent in order to rush him—if the opponent is a winged Lunar Exalt who travels a range band upward into the sky, most characters would not be able to follow him.
A while ago, someone expressed confusion at what rushes actually do. I thought I understood the concept pretty well, but the more I reread the relevant passage the more confused and lost I feel. Let’s settle this once and for all: What do rushes do that a combat Charm capable of attacking at short range doesn’t, and are they truly so important that every Solaroid needs an E5 Charm to automatically win them?

>>97725865
>Let’s settle this once and for all: What do rushes do that a combat Charm capable of attacking at short range doesn’t
Nothing, but not everyone has access to such charms

>>97725873
But
/but what’s the point then/
ffs the constancy of the Charm showing up reskinned gaslit me into believing me it was this game-breaking super speed glitch, is it really just the Cup Boils Over of Athletics?

>>97725899
why spend experience and motes on shit you can already achieve for free

>>97725902
It’s not even that useful unless I’m missing something is the thing. Frankly an E5 Charm to be forever immune to going prone or move in such a way you’re always considered mounted even off a horse would be more impressive unless I’m missing a use case here.

>>97725913
If you need to be in close range to kill a guy, a charm to get to close range automatically is useful. It's not the best charm ever and is a victim of Supernal, which made the devs write the charms weirdly because you get E5 charms at E1.

>>97725138
i imagine it's like highlighting a selected asset in a video game. regardless of it's facing, the exterior is always surrounded by a thin rim of light
so an exalt at glowing anima is always seen in profile as a person with light defining the edge of their person, so when they turn, you aren't flashed with their anima colors, but their outline shifts along their visible body contours for all observers
say we were in a room observing the dragonblood in op. you're facing his front and i'm facing his side. you see him much as he's shown in the picture, but i'd see him outlined from the back of his body to his front, down from his head to his feet
then say he turns to face me. from your perspective he remains limned in green, but the green doesn't cross his body from your perspective, it just moves along the contours of his body, such that the same outlines along his left and right are now framing his back and front like i saw previously. on my end i would observe the opposite phenomenon, where his side profile has no become his forward one

>>97725865
None of this shit really matters.

Fights are 99% of the time just two or more people standing next to each other and attacking until dead. Anything else is just too obnoxious to play.

>>97724702
They could have at least spared a bit more time beyond Emerald/No Legs in the Player's Guide, since it had literal chapters to spend on mortals.

>>97726674
Kill yourself. I've also literally never done a fight with two people, it's always been at least four players and the ST messing around.

>>97725769
Anon, Dragon Blood have always been matriarchal and playing exalted has always made you a faggot. I also don't think it being matriarchal was ever described as being fair or being a woman is more important then being a Dragon Blooded. That's more a 2e thing where even a hobo child is more respected by the gods then a deeb.

Can someone with experience playing ExEss tell me what the gameplay is like in general terms? Is it good as a leaner version of Exalted or is it too shallow to really call itself Exalted?

>>97727050
It's Ex3 but more wishy washy.

>>97727050
It's alright, playable, more approachable than 3E. Not really my thing, though, and I doubt I'll run it again.

>>97727050
Combat is a team sport, you all do your misc actions and give your Power to the Dawn equivalent to kill things for you. Like passing the ball for the striker to score in soccer/football

>>97727391
Combat being a team sport was kind of a cool thing, I think, as it gave everyone something to do while still having the combat-focused character(s) shine most brightly. The part I disliked about that was that there was basically one right way of doing combat and fights ended up feeling pretty samey asa result.

I don't WANT a body part targeting system, but at the same time an option to make attacks harder in order to deliver a headshot wouldn't be awful

>>97727620
It wouldn't be awful, but I don't think it's particularly needed in a game like Exalted. Some kind of variety for attack options might be good, though. Not sure what kind of variety, really, but maybe going all in on attack while sacrificing defense or something like that.

>>97723404
Blame 1e for saying that the Realm was matriarchical.

>>97724304
>Only for mortals, ultimately Dragon-Blooded men don't suffer discrimination because they are the princes of the earth.
No. It goes DB Woman > DB Man > Mortal Woman > Mortal Man

>>97727935
The Realm is matriarchal. They have a matriarch. Doesn't mean men don't exist or have power or choices. A woman on top doesn't mean it's women all the way down, look at every country IRL that's ever had a queen

>>97727951
Having a female ruler is not the same as being matriarchy. 3E Realm is definitely a matriarchy but not strictly so, previous editions' Realm wasn't, though it had some gender bias.

>>97727620
>the same time an option to make attacks harder in order to deliver a headshot wouldn't be awful
You already have it. You can add difficulty to your attacks to perform more audacious activities as part of the standard feats/difficulty system. This was written as part of 1e core, and 2e/3e references it without going nearly as explicitly into detail. If you are hanging upside down from a balcony and want to carve your initials on your opponent as they go charging past as part of your attack, just add five Difficulty when you roll against their DV.

No, attacking people's heads does not do more damage. That would be stupid balance-wise and not on-theme for the genre.

>>97728375
>No, attacking people's heads does not do more damage. That would be stupid balance-wise and not on-theme for the genre.
Now that you mentioned it, how does 3e handle "destroy a non magical skull with an arrow shot?"

>>97728408
In what way? If it's not attached to someone it's a minor feat of strength. If it's attached to someone then you could probably stunt it as part of killing them, or if you specifically needed the skull destroyed because the enemy is like a swirling cloud of endlessly regenerating flesh surrounding it's destructible skull core then it's probably either a gambit or a more difficult attack. You could render it as a feat of strength + attack flurry as well. One thing definitely worth noting is that you need to allow space for enemies to take crippling injuries, so just stunting overkill on someone because you're mechanically certain that they're going to be dead and want to do a D&D podcast style 'how do you kill them' thing doesn't actually work - if you dropped all of their health levels and they went incapacitated and you said your arrow split their skull open it'd be pretty reasonable for the Storyteller to counter with something like 'no, this happened', or 'it looked like you split their skull open, but actually it just took out their eye and deflected to the side', or 'you split their skull open, and they survived that, but now they have a derangement' to reflect a crippling instead of a killing blow. Same for when an enemy makes an incapacitating lethal/agg blow on you.

>>97728443
A mundane skull object at range, in the middle of a tall altar.

I just read a pulp story where the mc destroyed a skull with a gunshot, I wanted to know how 3e would handle it mechanically.

>>97728777
Feat of demolition, roll (Strength+Athletics) vs difficulty of destroying the object (1-2 for a mundane skull). Using a weapon adds +1 success if mundane, +2 if artifact.

In theory you can't model shooting it with a gun without ST fiat because ranged weapons don't add strength and the book only allows substitution of Martial Arts for Athletics in destroying things. And since in 3e objects don't have health levels, RAW you can't destroy anything you can't reach.

>>97728798
>ranged weapons don't add strength
Ranged weapons do add strength. Crossbows and firewands use 4 in place of your natural Strength score.

>>97727620
Feels like a different game but Fear and Hunger have proven to me that such a system can be good. Just have individual NPC's that make up a whole body.

>>97728798
Oh, thanks for the explanation.

>And since in 3e objects don't have health levels, RAW you can't destroy anything you can't reach.
Weird considering how common it is in pulps and other inspirational media.

>>97721181
Weekly Update
>Final Draft
Essence Player’s Guide Novella: Even the Heavens Will Burn
One of the Essence Player’s Guide stretch goal novellas is back to the writer for final drafts!
>Post-Approval Development
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
Speaking of approvals, we got a fast turnaround on the Essence Storyteller’s Guide, so the developer will have another chance to peek at it before it goes to editing
>Post-Editing
Sidereals Jumpstart
Which is good, because there’s an Exalted-shaped hole in the editing queue as the Sidereals Jumpstart goes back to the developer!
>Art Direction
Essence PG – Awaiting sketches.. as I’m told they are in progress
>Layout
Alchemicals
>Press
Exigents – Shipping to fulfillment shippers
lot's of movement in the development area this week, even if layout seems to be our ceiling for now
also, they're some previews of the abyssals companion on the site, here's the links
https://theonyxpath.com/riders-from-the-sunless-lands-preview-1-the-shape-of-the-underworld/
https://theonyxpath.com/riders-from-the-sunless-lands-preview-2/

>>97729883
>One of the Essence Player’s Guide stretch goal novellas is back to the writer for final drafts!
Yes! We need more Exalted fiction!

>>97732761
We need more GOOD Exalted fiction. I don't know if I'm feeling very confident.

>>97732817
I haven't read any since the double exaltations book. Are there any winners you'd recommend?

>>97732862
Nah, I haven't read very much Exalted fiction, as the novels I've given a try haven't been great. I've heard that Silence of Our Ancestors is good, though, and I've been meaning to read it.

>>97721181
What have you done with the Scarlet Empress in your games? Anything noteworthy?

>>97733888
Reincarnated her as a PC who looks exactly the same as her and has most of her memories.

>>97721181
>Have you ever played a Dragon-Blooded character? If yes, what happened in the campaign?
Nope, but I always thought it'd be fun to run a Dragon Blood prep school campaign.

A new preview of the Abyssals companion has a writeup for the Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears: https://theonyxpath.com/riders-from-the-sunless-lands-preview-3-the-love-clad-in-the-raiment-of-tears/. I'm still not a fan of 3E Lover's whole anti-love schtick, but that writeup makes the Lover properly villainous, at least. Also apparently that's the third preview and the second one had some Artifacts: https://theonyxpath.com/riders-from-the-sunless-lands-preview-2/

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>>97734871
>Breath-Drinker: While socially interacting with someone living, the Loveless feeds on their vitality, inflicting one level of lethal damage per hour of interaction, or per minute of direct physical contact. Victims typically become aware something is wrong when they begin suffering wound penalties, though appropriate distractions may force a (Wits + Awareness) roll to become aware of the feeding before it is too late.

>>97721181
What are the best places to look for creating a Demon-Blooded Exalt PC in 3e?

>>97735703
Infernals has Infernal Investiture merit. Just use that, take the mutations option and call it a day

>>97736344
Sounds reasonable enough.

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The best Dragon Blooded are the cannibalistic batfolk from the East.

I kinda wanna run a Dragon Blooded game but no ideas are coming up. any suggestions?

>>97737522
Highschool slice of life rom-com.

>>97737460
>can only Exalt as fire, air or wood.
Some times I wonder how the breeding originally worked.

>>97737528
I remember the sidebar saying it's explicitly an option for Essence 1 games, yeah. It's doable.

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>>97737522
Scavenger Lord Threshold explorers is something people don't think of Dragonblood for, and it's some really good stuff when it works. First Age ruins are actually challenges rather than goodie hut cakewalks as Dragonblooded, and the rewards you can pull out of them matter to DB when Solars might not even really want to use whatever cool sword they got out of the ancient debris. It's also the kind of setup where you have a lot of latitude to do whatever you want, respectable enough that you don't have to worry about problems back home for Dynast characters, and makes it easy to form mixed Dynast-Outcaste parties.

>>97737522
Pick or come up with a satrapy in your Direction of choice, say that old, experienced DBs who have run the show there are being pulled back to the Isle due to their Houses needing them in the current power struggles, have PCs be their young, fairly inexperienced replacements and then let them deal with everything that goes into trying to keep a satrapy peaceful, profitable and loyal to the Realm.

>>97737528
>>97737664
I was going to say there'd be more politics and back-stabbing involved than in a high-school romcom, but I guess that all that stuff actually kind of already is a part of teenage drama.

>>97738131
This is a good idea, too, especially if you don't want to deal with all the Dynastic political bullshit all that much. Personally I find the political bullshit a part of the appeal, but I can also see the appeal of a less political, more dungeon-delving Dragon-Blooded game.

>>97737522
make it the plot of infamous 1, where there's a drgonblood polity and suddenly a rash of other powers emerge in a great disaster

Can a Solar 3 working affect everyone (or at least all mortals) in Creation at once?

>>97738497
Ask your ST.

>>97738497
Depends on what you want to do, I'd say. An Ambition 3 Solar Working can
>make subtle alterations to the metaphysics of the entire cosmos
so that kind of scale should be okay. If you want to, like, turn every mortal in Creation into a chicken or something, that'd be out of scope with the guidelines for Workings, though.

>>97738512
"Anyone seeking to harm a child fails and botches automatically". SJW Eclipse has some plans

>>97738520
I'd personally say that sometjing like that is in line with how Solar 3 Workings are described, that auto-botches for everyone don't really count as a "subtle alteration", but that more loosely worded "children are protected and bad shit tends to happen to those who do manage to hurt them" would be fine.

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>>97738528

>>97738528
Isn't there a form of Karma in creation already?

>>97738528
Isn't there a form of Karma in creation already?

>>97738635
Not to my knowledge. Maybe there's something affecting reincarnation, though.

>>97738656
Only for Eclipse oathbreakers

>>97732761
>>97732817
You are better served by reading the inspirational media or random green texts.


>None who were of the surface would ever know the glories and horrors of that battle, the forays that the Exalted of the First Moon took as he fought from the back of a half-trained horror from the dark places below the earth.
>There would be no songs made of the boldness of the Sorcerer-Priests who took to flight upon the sacred bats of the temple, their spells flashing like gems in the darkness as they cast down the terrible things that they had thought their guardian-beasts, now unchained from their post and left to rend and maul.
>No art work would ever depict the march of the great statues of the temple as the things that dwelt, rut and bred in the depths below the temple were unleashed to join the fray under the control of the acolytes, barely restrained by raw magic from slaughtering mindlessly and feasting upon all present.
>No man would ever know of how the Zotz of Ēzalmic held against the winged things of the Mesa upon the steps of their great temple and claimed victory, despite all odds and, with spear, dart and magic, kept the enemy from the gate as they had done since the True Sun was betrayed from its rightful place in the sky.
>The fall of the Night Jaguar, swarmed by the progenitors of the Cuatepachoacatl, the last great stand of the militia as they commanded those who could not fight into the temple, the daring foray of Machultec, as he and his bat-beast led the stalking Hatchlings away from the slave pens and gave the Batab the chance to rally.
>Nothing would be remembered

>>97734871
>They doubled down on the Lover just hating love for no explicit reason and not having any character traits outside that
Well, fuck them.

>>97739286
She's a Deathlord, she's never going to actually appear in a game. She's scenery

>>97739317
Why's she got stats then? If it has stats, it's notionally meant to appear in the game. Simple as.

Also this is such a lazy attempt to dodge criticism for shitty 3e writing you might as well say all NPCs are scenery and therefore there was no need to change any of them from their depiction in prior eds.

>>97739317
Bootlicker-ass response.

>>97739402
>Why's she got stats then?
Because people whine otherwise

>>97739317
>She's a Deathlord, she's never going to actually appear in a game. She's scenery
>Mask wad statted in 1e core, and making of exalted.
>the devs all but beg you to feature them in your games.
>Abyssals are tied to them harder some somehow.
>Mask of Winters wrecking havoc in the east.
>The Heron was meant to be your Lady, from black company.
>All those interactions from the caste books.

>>97739437
He is from Zonu.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Time_and_the_Gods

>>97739317
No. 3CD could get away with that excuse if they were shit, because they only appear in games they're summoned into. Deathlords on the other hand are active antagonists entirely able to wander around the gameworld. The only reason they don't often appear in games previously is because they've been way too fucking powerful to deal with, so if they ever did show up in games - even if it made complete sense to - they would immediately demolish player agency and put a threat on the board that had to be dealt with (impossible except by fiat) or see the game shift whatever way the Deathlord wants it to go. They didn't appear because if they did they won, but they are in the world doing things.

It's such a fucking travesty that hekatonkhire make better Deathlords than the Deathlords.

>>97739518
>It's such a fucking travesty that hekatonkhire make better Deathlords than the Deathlords
It makes more sense once you realize how ill fitting the mix of "elder vampires" & "the taken" the Deathlords actually are.

They tried to replicate elder vampire play in a game where it doesn't belong, Abyssals weren't meant to be high generation chumps.

In Black Company terms, Solars are high magnitude beings instead of low/no magnitude that the titular company mostly consists of; to preserve the power dynamics in favor of the taken, the devs gave them complete immortality, all the charms and told the STs to cheat in their favor.

>>97737522
Lookshy intelligence officers game, traveling across the a Scavenger Lands doing CIA glowie shit.

Then invite me because I really want to play that game

>>97740173
Find me four more anons willing to play ball and I just might.

File: 2bafb5a5df0898e431b277426(...).jpg (68 KB, 680x440)

68 KB JPG

Assuming you're rolling in white xp (which every Crafter will be), is there any reason not to use Design Beyond Limit on every artifact your circle owns every story?

>>97741051
If no one else here wants to join there is always the trannycord and the chudcord.

>>97741923
Wait which are these? I wanna check them out.

>>97741964
I assume the trannycord is the main Exalted discord. Not sure about the other

>>97741923
Trannycord, incelcord, and porncord. Or is that Exxxalted discord dead now.

>>97741574
No. And seeing that there's a charm just like Design Beyond Limit in Infernals, it's not even a case of it being an early edition charm that completely unbalances things.

>>97739443
>”3e is the most player-facing edition, you can actually be an Exalt in this game”
>”Which means Deathlords are TOTALLY designed to not be engaged with at all because y-you’re MEAN and WHINE at the poor overworked devs who take years to release an unfinished PDF (on Backerkit previews)”
>”AIEEEEEEEE STOP COMPLAINING”
The 3efag cries out in pain as he strikes you.

>>97739286
Lover being pretty one note is fine because eh, she's a Deathlord. Deathlords should be obsessive ancient ghosts thoroughly cirrupted by the Whispers, not sane, balanced, nuanced people. That said, hating love for no reason is pretty boring, while being a burned out hedonist who seeks the death of everything both as a release from the tedium of existing and as one final thrill is actually pretty interesting. I can understand why the devs didn't want a retread of the 2E Lover, but my preference would've been to see the same basic concept done with less obsession on sex. Just instruct the writer working on the Lover to keep both hands on the keyboard when writing and see what comes out, that's what I'd like to see.

>>97742076
The Exxxalted discord is still alive

>>97742489
I'm too intimidated by sexy people to go there.

>>97742194
If they wanted to rework her, they could have made the lover into a clean version of nurgle, who weaponizes comfort as a form self destruction.

A drug dealer who promotes nihilistic hedonistic lifestyles.

She would remove the pain, but not the cause, making populations stave to death by removing their ability of feeling hungry.

>>97742586
Worry not then, because all you'll find there is the exact opposite.

>>97734871
>>97739286
>>97742194
>>97742627
What is this, Catholic elementay school? Why is everything so committee-written, safe, boring, beige, corners sanded off, sharp edges filed away? It amazes me how we're supposedly in the most open-minded, sexually liberated time in history yet in reality we're at an all-time nadir of neurotic emotionally-stunted prudishness. What a total ripoff.

>>97742690
3e writers got ashamed about their own 2e writing.

>>97742690
Worse. It's modern work culture with HR in the room, and they sent their MOST retarded and high-strung mouthbreather to double check your work.

>>97742194
See that's the thing, Lover being an obsessive ancient ghost is not what bothers me. Lover being a BORING obsessive ancient ghost without any kind of humanly understandable reason for her motivations is what bothers me, because craven ambition and a desire for temporal power is what separates dead First Agers from the frickin' Raksha. To use a few takes on 3e Deathlords I do not entirely hate (against my better judgement but still) I think the Lion and the Heron are done acceptably in 3e, they are also monomaniacal but it makes sense for them to be who they are.

Meanwhile the Lover just has this mystery box motivation to shit on a concept. Again, like a Raksha who has declared it's his quest to war against the sea or whatever.

>Just instruct the writer working on the Lover to keep both hands on the keyboard when writing and see what comes out, that's what I'd like to see.
As someone who enjoyed 2e Lover on every level, I would've been happy to see what came of this. I can live with less horny in my game but fucking hell, make her INTERESTING damn you. Play into the hints at Lover being Bright Shattered Ice and focus on her being a well-rounded Deathlord or play into her being one of the more machination-prone Deathlords with strings throughout Creation and even Yu-Shan rather than make her seem like a weird icy cult leader.

I honestly like how she rips her heart the moment someone makes her feel love for the first time in who knows how long. That's determination to be a hater right there.

>>97742690
Catholic elementary school the nuns will rap your knuckles with the ruler if you act up at least

>>97743000
>The Lover will only use this power once her −2 health levels have been filled with damage and she is unable to escape, or if a character successfully erodes her Defining Principle.
To be fair, given how Principles work it doesn't necessary have to be that, it could also just being a Supernal Performance Solar going "Hey! Hey, isn't doing all of this a total waste of your time? Go outside. Touch grass" while playing the bongos.

>The storm is an environmental hazard with Damage 6L/minute in a nine-mile radius, destroying most structures less sturdy than a stone fortress. It has no difficulty; instead, each success on a (Stamina + [Integrity or Resistance]) roll reduces the damage by one die, to a minimum of zero, and must be rolled again each interval. Within medium range of the Lover, the interval is every turn. Physical actions by characters other than the Lover suffer a −(3 + highest loveless Intimacy) penalty, which does not stack with her Chilling Aura effect.
>It has no difficulty
Lmao, I just noticed this. That they just fucking ABANDONED the Difficulty mechanic for what it supposed to be the Lover's final boss mode attack just confirms to me that they finally realised it was a mistake.

>>97743091
I think it is like it was discussed a few threads ago, abilities that ignore and bypass systems are stronger.

>>97740173
That's interesting as I'm running a game with a very similar concept.

I don't have any space, but you're welcome to watch from the cuck chair.

>>97743222
This is weaker, though. It's using the Essence environmental hazard mechanics (because Essence is a better designed game) but the overall effect is less powerful than a high difficulty hazard.

>>97743091
Is this in the final version? I don't have that version. So I can't check. If it's the manuscript it could be changed. Honestly environmental hazards are such a pain in the ass in this edition. I don't know why it's rolled.

>>97743835
It's just the preview they put up on the Onyx Path website.

>Honestly environmental hazards are such a pain in the ass in this edition.
...are they? The ones in 3e Core look piss easy, just roll against 5 lma

>>97742997
>As someone who enjoyed 2e Lover on every level, I would've been happy to see what came of this. I can live with less horny in my game but fucking hell, make her INTERESTING damn you. Play into the hints at Lover being Bright Shattered Ice and focus on her being a well-rounded Deathlord or play into her being one of the more machination-prone Deathlords with strings throughout Creation and even Yu-Shan rather than make her seem like a weird icy cult leader.
Here's hoping that we'll someday get 4E that'll come with something like that. I do think that 2E Lover was too horny, if for no other reason then because that kind of focus on sex is one note as fuck and doesn't capture all there is to excess and hedonism, and mostly I'd just like to see a take on Lover who wields beauty and pleasure of all sorts as a weapon for bringing about the end of all things. Less fucking and sucking and more being a wicked muse inspiring artists to do horrible things in search for ever greater heights in their art only to ultimately realize the futility of it all, and other stuff like that. I don't even want her to be completely non-horny, as while sex isn't all there is to pleasure it obviously is a very big and important source of pleasure.

>Lover being a BORING obsessive ancient ghost without any kind of humanly understandable reason for her motivations is what bothers me
That humanly understandable reason is important. I might be more willing to buy the 3E take on Lover if there was some kind of reason for her hatred of love. Maybe she died by a lover's hand or something, and her ego demands that if her love was betrayed then love must inevitably lead to betrayal, or something like that. As I said, I'd prefer seeing hedonist-Lover be done in a bit different way than in 2E, but 3E take would be a lot more palatable with more detail and more actual reasons for Lover's issues.

>>97743000
>I honestly like how she rips her heart the moment someone makes her feel love for the first time in who knows how long. That's determination to be a hater right there.
Indeed. I presume that there's no way around that?

>>97746298
I do have an idea but practically speaking I think you'd need at least two social characters. It automatically lowers all non-loveless intimacies while boosting the loveless ones so you'd just have to work around that.

So the idea is to just let her throw her temper tantrum, work out all that negative energy before going back after the storm. You'd want the social characters to make sure your intimacies don't get too high and to have an escape plan. You also want to draw her out on her own because hitting the intimacies of all your followers/her followers that you just socialed sounds really bad. Nothing says she can't feel love after ripping out her cold dead heart after all. A part of me thinks it should make feeling love be impossible but eh.

You could also find a way to kidnap her and just kill her in the middle of a city. I like the "hit and run" idea more though. The whole storm thing feels pretty fun.

oh right. You know, loveless sex and passion without feeling fits the Lover pretty well. Just look at the loveless. I'm sure she has her sex cults if you want that kind of thing, it'd be around pleasure without the attachments of love. Using it to forget instead of forging new memories with people by feeling good together.

Fits the "Love only brings pain" vibe she has going at least.

>>97744344
I mean the mechanic. The hazards that are per turn become separate attacks at that point. I like crunch heavy systems but there's such a thing as too much crunch and 3e sometimes crosses that threshold. There are a bunch of changes like making certain charms like IPP per hour that just add a bunch of granularity to the system that didn't have to be added. I don't know who that was for.

>>97746207
You want the Lover to be pretty much Slaanesh.

>>97746441
Sort of, but Slaanesh isn't really about coming to the conclusion that the pursuit of pleasure is futile and meaningless. Appearance and methods of Slaanesh with a different underlying philosophy and a different end goal, maybe.

>>97746371
Oh right. Funny, my main complaint about 3e has always been that in trying to be a storytelling game it’s slapped on too many mechanics for everything from being a large animal to rushing (which is apparently super important to have as a Solaroid skill) into battle. I just saw this one as overcorrection for environmental hazards being so ass I’m pretty sure a Sky Tyrant could outfly Adorjan’s silent winds.

Now that the dust has settled, how does Solar, Abyssal and Infernal Melee compare against each other? I have a sneaking suspicion that even though Infernal Melee is technically worse than Solar melee Charm for Charm the way the charmset works overall makes it better as long as you're happy to sacrifice precision for AoE destruction, while Abyssal Melee despite being better designed kind of has the worst of both worlds due to needing to slap a Crippling or other bad touch effect on you to use it's best tricks.

>>97747908
Abyssal Melee is almost entirely Solar mirrors. It does have a few tricks, but it's mostly just the same as before.

>>97747928
I'm specifically thinking of a few options to Defend Other or to repeat attacks on a single round they lack in exchange for slapping Crippling on people or burning out a captured soul to defend.

>>97747928
...also, I'd argue that Apocalypse Blade Unbound is flat out better than Divine Executioner Stance despite being functionally a variation on the same Charm (and positioned at higher Essence)

>>97747311
Unfortunately, it all comes back to holden and morke poisoning the entire line. Mostly Morke and holden being too burnt out and prideful enough not to realize how much he was letting everything out of control.

>>97748018
Ex3 is in desperate need of errata and not only is it not on the horizon, it may take so mych effort that it'd be quicker and easier to make Ex4 instead.

Okay, but here's the million dollar question: Which splat has the most functional, i.e. needs the least errata and tweaking, charmset?

>>97748492
They're not out yet but I'm hoping the answer is going to be infernals.

>>97735703
Made a WIP-one based on Ligier
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dBuj-CInsvPfJL4BTdLPVXIEkrXD8A5Qi49tmd_RBq4/edit?usp=sharing

>>97748492
Lunars is technically fine but sidereals is where they actually stop fucking around and start creating something interesting and useful.

>>97722363
Looks better than the infernals version, everything infernal is dogshit.

>>97748743
Where's the Infernals one? It's not in the author's DA page.

>>97748492
>Which splat has the most functional, i.e. needs the least errata and tweaking, charmset?
Alchemicals, probably. They don't compare directly to anyone else so scaling isn't an issue like it is for solaroids, they can have custom charms and their charms aren't fucking stupid like half the Sidereal set, and they don't have nearly as many of the teething issues Lunars did.

>>97748758
Shit, you're right. Did it get taken down?

>>97748492
I am deeply biased, but I sincerely think the Infernals charmset is very functional for what it sets out to do. My only real complaint is that some Charms seem particularly arbitrary (there's a Key for Argument From The Peak to be able to use it on prone targets. Apparently Infernals are too honourable to kick a man while he's down. Also it's kind of weird there are Charms to eat gods but the Charm to actually perceive and interact with dematerialised beings is sold separately. The fuck do the devs think you're eating?) and that I want Running To Forever to run back it's nerf which is seemingly only has because they wanted to give it's "you get rested from strenuous activity" effect to hell dance sorcery instead.

>>97748690
>sidereals
The Charms definitely look interesting but I keep hearing from Siderealfags here that their Charms are too weak. From what I can tell they're certainly expensive and some are heavy on the Agg health costs, but I'd take interesting over free excellency uses and nothing else any day.

File: Get Out.gif (565 KB, 200x133)

565 KB GIF

Built a no-houserules Solar for the first time in a while. All of my starting charms, except for Supernal, are dice tricks

>>97749200
Welcome to playing a starting Solar in 3e. Outside your main niche, your powerset is you just kind of vaguely describing how you try harder and harder to win in abstract terms.

>>97749197
>Also it's kind of weird there are Charms to eat gods but the Charm to actually perceive and interact with dematerialised beings is sold separately. The fuck do the devs think you're eating?
Gods materialize. Also, sometimes they possess or are bound into people or objects, and eating the object/person means you eat the god (this is how you get Drunken Moth Sickness naturally).

>>97749200
You'd think they'd have learned the lesson from 1e that printing charms that just fuck with your dice isn't very interesting or fun.

>>97749246
Don't they turn into starmetal upon death, which means you're stuck trying to eat a nominally indestructible magical material? It just seems something really nitpicky that doesn't have clearcut and convenient to locate rules.

>>97749250
Exalted is a case study in stubbornly refusing to learn from some of your old mistakes while overcorrecting others until you forget why people even liked your setting to begin with and come up with your own idea you insist everyone must agree with.

Any cleaned up and improved 3e Solar charmsets? And for other splats too.

>>97749283
Golden Calibration is better than the core solar charmset, it doesn't remove all dice tricks but clears some bloat and removes unnecessarily vague language

>>97749256
Gods don't turn into starmetal on death, they dissipate into motes of essence. That's what Solars then absorb with Carnal Spirit Rending for example. You might be thinking of how when a major God dies, their literal star in the constellations of heaven will fall to earth as a meteorite, which is the main source for starmetal in artifacts.

>>97749197
Sidereals are only weak in a few areas. The only real issue is awareness and dodge. The problem with dodge is that it combines with martial arts. Non-MA, Non-melee builds are much weaker defensively. Awareness needs a few charms to buff it to be somewhat useful.

Outside of that it's really niche cases some of which are intended. They are much more capable than most other celestial level beings.

>>97749308
>they dissipate into motes of Essence
Uh...are they not technically dematerialised at that point?

>>97749313
I did remember they have more ways to deal with and guarantee Ambushes than just about everyone else I can think of in 3e, which definitely seems powerful. Sounds a lot like you are in fact supposed to take on foes by surprise as a Sidereal.

>>97749319
Normally, but not necessarily. The natural state of gods is dematerialized. If you kill someone their charms turn off, which includes Materialize. If you've forced them material and killed them then they still dissolve into motes of essence, which is maybe more like acid + evaporation than normal since it's material, but still basically the same.

>>97749319
Most people (all Exalts) fighting Gods to the death will have a method of hitting them while they're dematerialized

>>97749334
>Normally, but not necessarily.
I really hate it when 3e pulls this card just to avoid putting more effort into writing Charms.
>maybe
I would be more convinced by this if 3e core had more clearcut rules on what happens when a spirit dies.

>>97749339
Why are you saying 3e? This started with someone asking if gods turned into starmetal when they died, then were corrected on how starmetal fell from the sky when gods died - but in 3e, neither happens. Starmetal's only relation to the gods in 3e is thematic. QED we aren't talking about 3e.

If you kill a God, they don't leave behind a body, they dissolve into unshaped essence which, unless prevented, reconstitutes at a later date in their sanctum.

>>97748566
>>97748690
>>97748810
>>97749197
And in the scale between best designed charmsets of 3e and the worst, where do Dragon-Blooded sit?

>>97749325
They just have really bad awareness compared to other splats. Supernal Awareness is more like a minimap ping than an actual range extender like every other exalt has. It should have a way to somewhat counter stealth and ambushes but it really doesn't. Prior Warning + expected pain doesn't help against extreme die pools. It's just a bunch of factors that could be easily fixed with a simple (5m,1wp +1tn to a contested stealth roll)

>>97749366
Awful. The charmset is just solars but worse and then ruined by the aura keyword. Good luck fucking getting anything to work without a charmset that's about 1/5th as big as it's supposed to be with that fucking kneecap. Literally worse than solars because you have dead charms.

Exalted 2.5e
Question about bonus stacking

+2 Accuracy from a charm
+2 Accuracy from soulsteel
+4 dice from an artifact

What stacks and what doesnt?

>>97749377
Everything stacks in 2e

>>97749387
Thats why im asking 2.5e

>>97749417
Same

>>97749375
>Awful. The charmset is just solars but worse and then ruined by the aura keyword. Good luck fucking getting anything to work without a charmset that's about 1/5th as big as it's supposed to be with that fucking kneecap. Literally worse than solars because you have dead charms.
And yet somehow, more than 3 DBs fighting an E5 Solar is apparently a death sentence for that Solar. according to playtests on the official forums.

>>97749419
Did you even read the errata? Page 15

>>97749638
That's initiative jank. Three DBs vs a Dawn should be represented as a battlegroup rather than individual combatants

>>97749665
I can hear the Fancord screaming in rage and plotting a second Usurpation from here.

>>97749665
>battlegroup wank
Any circle of Solars should be put in a battlegroup. Might 3 since they're significant supernatural characters. No charms because battlegroups don't get them.

Can a heroic mortal PC kill this battlegroup of Solars in chargen? Absolutely. Is this narratively appropriate? Well, if you believe certain passages of Times of Tumult then perhaps it might be...

>>97749250
My theory it is caused by the "solars aren't outright supernatural, they are just super X" soft rule. It ended up making Solars a "stat check" splat.

>>97749830
Exalted cannot form battle groups, with exception of Dragon-Blooded.
Which is a sign that they aren't real Exalted jk

>>97749830
This but completely unironically. I'm not going through the hassle of running multiple charm using NPCs.

>>97749197
>Charms to eat gods but the Charm to actually perceive and interact with dematerialised beings is sold separately. The fuck do the devs think you're eating?)
It is just part of the weirdness of "exalted are not supernatural themselves, they are reaching into the occult side of the world that they don't belong", despite being sold as demigods, they are written like a WoD splat, because of this their interactions with the spiritual gets weird when you think about it.

>>97741051
Add me on Discord if you do run the game
@chrispbacon_89589

>>97750180
>Exalted cannot form battle groups, with exception of Dragon-Blooded.
That's not actually the rules. The books say that Exalted cannot form battle groups, and that Might 3 is the appropriate rating for Terrestrial Exalted.
>Battle groups are an abstraction used whenever there are more than two combatants on the battlefield who are rea-sonably similar to one another in terms of capabilities and equipment, who aren’t especially noteworthy to the story as individuals, and who aren’t potent supernatural beings such as Exalts.
>core pg205
Could possibly be flavor text and not actual rule text, though.
>Might 3: This is the Might rating of battle groups com-posed of Terrestrial Exalted or similarly potent beings.
>core pg207
Put them together and there are two ways you can read it. One way is that the first section says battlegroups aren't made up of Exalts, and the second section says Might 3 is the appropriate rating for Terrestrial Exalted but doesn't explicitly say you can make battle groups of them. Put them together and Terrestrials are just being used as an example of where Might 3 characters sit, but can't actually go in the battle groups themselves. The other way to read it is that the Might text is rules text while the first section is flavor text, so the rules text overrules. This means that Exalted can be put in battlegroups.

So, either all Exalted can be put in battle groups or no Exalted can be put in battle groups, but no proper reading puts Dragonblood in battle groups while not doing the same for other Exalted.

>>97750387
Anon... how did you miss the JoKing?

"Terrestrial exalted" IS the Dragon-Blooded true name, I was joking that the rules implied that they aren't real exalted since Terrestrial exalted (A.K.A. the Dragon-Blooded) battle groups were mentioned, despite Exalted not forming battle groups.

>>97750482
>Anon... how did you miss the JoKing?
Your second sentence was comic exaggeration and marked with jk but your first sentence seemed serious. It's gets gets thrown around seriously pretty often.

>>97750387
>Put them together and Terrestrials are just being used as an example of where Might 3 characters sit, but can't actually go in the battle groups themselves
Not really, the text explicitly says groups of Dragon-Blooded.

>This is the Might rating of battle groups com-posed of Terrestrial Exalted

With the Dragon-Blooded analogs separate.
>or similarly potent beings.

If it was like you said, the text would say.

>Might 3: This is the Might rating of battle groups composed of beings similarly potent as the Terrestrial Exalted.

I blame it on Holdorke kicking the editor from doing his job.

>>97750515
>the text explicitly says groups of Dragon-Blooded.
Yes, but not that they can actually be made. You're 100% right that it's an editing error since the two passages contradict each other almost directly.

The most reasonable reading is that the first passage is flavor text rather than natural language rules text imo, but it's also the worse reading, so---

Basically, 3e sucks and 3e core has a lot of places where it sucks even more than the rest of the edition.

Battlegroups not being able to use Charms even when they're made of spirits or what have you always struck me as ass-backwards.

>>97750683
I think it is just the devs trying to avoid designing systems for it, and abstracting it with might.

>>97750717
Well too fucking bad, they're paid to design game systems.

>>97749197
>Also it's kind of weird there are Charms to eat gods but the Charm to actually perceive and interact with dematerialised beings is sold separately. The fuck do the devs think you're eating?)
Fun fact: the complete inability to see is only a -3 penalty.

>>97750822
You act like -3 for a mortal is something they can easily handle. That shit is crippling.

Anyways, it's been proven by the mechanics of the game in multiple editions that battlegroups are the reason the Dragon-Blooded were able to so easily defeat the Solars during the Usurpation. At least according to the 2e books the following is true (and 3e, even if the numbers change.)

The Solars did not have a unified leader during the Usurpation.
Defeating the Solars was both a forgone conclusion and using the books own words "Easy and less complicated" then the alternatives.
Even if you ignore the above canon lore the fall of the Solars has never been up for debate - the Age of Dark dates all the way back to 1e and it's WoD connections.
In 2e and 3e and all errata a battlegroup of 300 essence 10 solars with no commander loses to a battlegroup of however many dragonblooded with a leader. Cry, whine, run, the system supports this no matter how many times you run the fight.
This is not just a mechanical thing but also a setting abstraction and literal canon - the inability to use charms doesn't mean the battlegroup can't use charms, it's them not being able to use them as effectively or in combination with the people around them. AKA the Solars are fighting by themselves and the dragonblooded are doing crazy ass combos with hundreds of others dragonblooded.

It's one of the best examples of the mechanics supporting the lore. Literally run your hands as often as you want, your solars aren't winning unless they have a commander in charge of them and there is no way first age solars would ever unite on that. Mechanics and lore, hand in hand.

>>97750941
>Anyways, it's been proven by the mechanics of the game in multiple editions that battlegroups are the reason the Dragon-Blooded were able to so easily defeat the Solars during the Usurpation. At least according to the 2e books the following is true (and 3e, even if the numbers change.)
Treating game mechanics as the rules of reality is and has always been utterly retarded

>>97750962
Maybe but it works and supports what happens in the lore. It's pretty much as objectively true as you can be about anything Exalted.

Do you turn a bunch of people into a battlegroup in Exalted? Yes.
Did the Solars lose to the Dragonblood? Yes.
Would First Age Solars at the height of their hubris unite and select a leader? No.
Would the dragonblooded do so? Yes.
Was the defeat of the Solars inevitable due to their own failings? In literally every edition yes.
Does a battlegroup of solars lose to a battlegroup of dragonblooded who have a commander using charms? Yes. Every single time.

Mechanics and lore, hand in hand. Abstraction and math working in tandem.

>>97750983
>Would First Age Solars at the height of their hubris unite and select a leader? No.
M-R-L- tho?

>>97750962
But if you do it this way, then Solars have 0 feats outside of artifact crafting.

>>97751007
Dreams of the First Age is what it is, but it is the most detailed look into the First Age we have, and and as depicted there Merela was, while a powerful and respected figure, less politically powerful than the Hierophant and not really the leader of the Exalted Host in any real way - one of the leading figures, sure, but her title as the Queen only gave pretty limited power.

>>97751007
I don't know what you mean but I really feel like I should.

>>97751076
Oh right her. I thought she died killing some primordial and would have been deeply ashamed of what the Solar host turned into at the end of their empire. Must be thinking of someone else.

>>97751080
He's referring to Merela, the nominal Queen of Creation during the First Age.

>>97751088
>>97751089
Is she the one who solo killed a Primordial, so Sol gave her a special artifact crown?

>>97749638
If you minmax the Dragon-Blooded and use the worst Solar builds then yes, they can die. However, that doesn't change the point that the DB charmset is worse. Aura makes it so that you have to use specific charms and then it combines with bonfire to force your aura into that element. If you play character who uses Wood- Dodge or Earth Melee, you are shit out of luck. Even for Fire aspects - melee a fucking fire aspected tree - has water capstone charms that require fire melee techniques, which you can't use with each other. It's fucking awful. That's in addition to most of their MA styles being weaker than normal celestial styles.

>>97751173
Can you just ignore aura?

>>97751097
Yes.

>Primordial.
I think Primordial meant what we call now 3rd circle.

>>97749283
Sandact's Solar Revamp gutted nearly every aspect of the charms and rebuilt them from the ground up.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AbL1YEfD-rDrD84nMea_sI3auL7IQBvH67GRovHWyV8/edit?tab=t.0

>>97750683
That's because they break if you do allow charms. A big factor of battle groups is that they're initiative toilets and have static initiative. If you make an NPC then any withering charm has to account for battle groups while decisives don't exist.

>>97751337
Yay.

>>97751173
I've heard some say that A Clutch of Dragons has a better charmset and design space in general, but I've never seen it in play so I wouldn't know. Can someone with experience using that homebrew offer their testimony?

Just for an idea of scale, when a sorcerous working says a region rather than a specific city/village/field/etc. what would be a sensible equivalent in real world geography?

>>97751337
How is it in play? I've not gone over the charmset in full because I don't want to fully commit to memorising a homebrew system without having a game for it first. Also, is there a PDF of Sandacts rewrite?

>>97751743
I've been using it over two years, and it's good.

The key difference between Sandact's and Golden Calibration is that the latter seeks to try to improve the charms without altering the base system. Sandact alters the foundation, some things work upon itself to improve them (Such as Craft using Ventures or War using retailored battle group rules). GC seeks to address the surface issues, Sandact attempts to go after the root.

The thing about Sandact's version is that it doesn't rewrite the game so dramatically so that other splats no longer work. Most currently written charms work using their rules, with the exception of Craft and Sail (which are totally rewritten). It also seeks to patch a few holes in the charmsets (Such as Archery and Thrown being really bad at withering attacks).

The last is that Sandact's system is relatively modular. If you only want to use a few abilities, then you can just use those.

Sandact's revamp might not be for everyone, but I use it as I feel he tried to tackle deeper issues that Ex3 had rather than GC which tried to make charms better for wonky subsystems. I'm not saying one is better, but both have different design goals.

There's also no PDF as he's lazy.

>>97751651
The surroundings of New York

>>97751791
The city or the state?

>>97751794
The city, chiaroscuro is based on it, a regional spell could cover it and its neighbors.

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>>97751813
Thanks

>>97751218
The system is entirely built on Aura. There are some fixes but it needs a full rewrite.

>>97752636
Is Aura that bad?

Why is there no Battle Anthem of the Abyssal Exalted? All the others got one,

>>97751218
>>97752636
Aura is completely inconsequential and you can fully ignore it and assume the most beneficial effects at all times. Even when you do this DBs are still weak.

>>97752955
You have a large number of charms that are only good when aura is up or when you can expend it. If you are not in the correct aura you lose out on even being able to use charms usually the strongest charms. The difference between Aura and not is quite a leap especially the elemental dragon styles which really are shitty if you aren't able to generate aura. I mean they're still kind of shitty with them but without them a fucking waste of time. They are terrestrial level and aura partially bumps them to celestial. Which is just such an abandonment of how MAs are supposed to work.

>>97753210
They are stronger if you allow them to have an Omni aura but still pretty weak.

>>97753219
Yup, the main benefit is removing the incredibly obnoxious bookkeeping.

>>97753215
>Which is just such an abandonment of how MAs are supposed to work.
Let Deebs have something.

>>97753272
The elemental dragon styles suck ass and while it's on purpose to make it the optimal combat path like it was in 1e and 2e it makes it barely worth taking for dragon blooded. The styles should be stronger. So should the artifacts for that matter. I think dragon blooded have the worst shit in this edition. Which blows because I like them a lot.

>>97753283
To prevent it from being the optimal combat path*

THREADLY REMINDER that if you can't craft artifacts you will never be even a blip on the setting.

>>97753503
>*laughs in Solar Circle Sorcery*

>>97753552
>spends several months on an elaborate magic ritual to make everyone's balls slightly more itchy
HUGE!!!

>>97753562
Nice hometown you got there, be a shame if someone cast Rain Of Doom over it...

>>97753910
Nice try, but I've built a Rain of Doom reflector shield.

>>97753914
Lolnope it's my control spell.

>>97753503
This. I have thoroughly been sleeping on Craft.

>>97753918
Good luck surviving to E5 without a bajillion artifacts and unlimited evocations you can change on a whim

Imagine crafting or casting spells when you can just tell people to do that for you. Bunch of posers.

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>>97754118
>his powers can be defeated by airpods

>>97754118
Imagine telling people what to do instead of creating an artifact that tells people what to do.

>>97754157
>If I'm blind deaf and dumb this enemy solar can't social me.
>I am so smrt.

>>97754166
Good luck getting an artifact that's good at social stuff without being good at social stuff yourself. It's okay though, you'll have fun making my loot. I promise.

>>97754183
A singular Terrestrial spell (Silent Words of Dreams and Nightmares) is better than every solar social charm because it stops people from just telling you No with 1 Willpower.

>>97721181
>that's a bonfire
why do they call it bonfire then, they should just call it orbital kamehameha strike instead

>>97754192
This might be the first time I've ever been told that being forced to spend willpower to not lose actually makes social weak. The normal meme is that people will just roll join battle.

>>97754215
Then you haven't been in these threads very long.

>>97754221
Plenty long but not absurdly so. Most of the time you mention spending willpower people whine about social being too powerful anyways and how they shouldn't be forced to spend resources.

Good thing your Crafter took some integrity charms like a non-retard.

>>97754215
Draw Daiklaive was the social winner in 2/2.5e because social combat worked on long ticks (every turn is one minute) but actual combat worked on regular ticks (every tick is one second) so it was impossible to social people while in battle.

In 3e social influence can be used in combat just as easily as attacks, often to great effect.

>>97754265
2e you can nuke willpower pretty effectively. 3e I have no idea what the strongest social build is.

>>97754289
In 3e it's theoretically possible to waste someone's willpower by creating intimacies and ping ponging off of them repeatedly with filler influence checks until they're dry, but in reality no table is going to have the patience to sit through that process.

>>97754289
Thousand Courtesan ways for offense - instill and persuade without targeting an intimacy. Or have all your intimacies be contradictory and hedge them, so no matter what intimacy someone targets you always have another to counter it.

>>97754289
3e's best builds involve charms that give you temporary intimacies which makes it much harder to spend willpower to avoid. The stronger you can make that intimacy before making a somewhat unreasonable preposition the easier it is. Solar Social abilities (outside of performance which just blasts it's victims) are much easier to deal with because they have to deal with the intimacy system. You can tell when the charms were created before the system because it's incredibly stupid. There's no interaction with presence or socialize it just uses dice which then gets blocked by intimacies and prevents all your next social attacks to auto fail unless you can figure out their intimacies, which isn't hard but could be completely contrary to what you want them to do.

Retarded jokes aside I actually do think crafters are the strongest archtype in 2e and 3e, assuming you build properly and don't forgo combat. I can't prove that but crafting seems to "break" the system more.

Practically speaking the strongest build would be the one that breaks the action economy the most I would imagine. If you can take four action for every one the enemy can take it's pretty fucking impossible to lose if you're playing right. At least that's how it works in almost every table top game I've ever played. Most games in general desu.

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I just wanna run a session, a one shot or something, to learn the system but it's such a hard sell to people...

Would anyone be down to be GM'd by a total novice to the system who's only read the core to 3e and still fumbles some of the lore a bit? I'm a good DM (or so I'd like to think!) but I'm scared of tackling this since it's so lore heavy.

>>97754430
You're called an ST (storyteller) in Exalted, not a GM/DM.

>>97754437
That's true! I'm just used to speaking in generic since it's way easier than using the appropriate names when talking to people.

I've ran Scion and I'm a long time VtM fan so I'd say I'm good with the system. It's just... There's so much plot and stuff to bear in mind with Exalted, it's a bit intimidating.

But if I ran L5R, I can tackle this.

>>97754430
One shots are trash, sorry bud.

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>>97751651
Other guy's misleading you, check picrel. Region is a scope indicator larger than a normal city or even kingdom. The number of people is right for New York, but the number of people in NY is also larger than any city in Creation. Local region could cover a significant fraction of the Scavenger Lands, like the whole of the Hundred Kingdoms, or the Yellow River and all it's cities.

>>97754430
Sure, why not. Discord:
tendot

>>97754342
This is why Single Point is so strong, yes.

>>97754342
It all came down to the mote economy in 2e. Obviously you'd optimise the action economy, but after a certain point that's just something everybody does to maintain parity. The real trick was always working out how much it cost to defend vs attack. If you could launch five multiattacks for ten motes and a point of willpower, and every attack that lands will instantly kill, that's great unless the other guy can perfect block one attack for four motes and flurry-break for three, in which case it's just going to get you killed. This was also a bit of a hamper on artifacts, because any artifact that meant anything in combat required committed mote costs that generally weren't small, and often had activation costs on top.

You're still right that crafting broke the game in a few ways, but it was usually more because some artifacts completely broke the game or the mote economy. I'm looking at essence batteries and skin mount amulets as clear examples of the latter. Carrying around a literal ton of soulfire crystals in your infinite resplendence amulet's pockets so that you can refresh your motes every turn in combat and cosplay having a kilomote like the Yozi is some serious bullcrap.

>3 dot artifact that does nothing except kill one specific person

>>97756031
this is how the taken from the black company are killed, this or using their true name

The Key Mother Before Daughter for Infernals in 3e is hilarious.

>>97758338
>However, she must pay one Willpower to purposefully harm a character that she has a positive Tie toward. This doesn’t apply if she believes the benefits of her action for that character will outweigh the harm done

Asian Parenting Prana

>>97758368
That last line does so much work for making the charm a flavor powerhouse. I just love it.

Is Ligier actually a threat to a circle in 3e? Because I'm not seeing it

Remember when people said that 3e was going to revive the franchise? Essence Ranch remembers

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>>97758607

>>97758607
Wasn't the franchise at its peak? It got the most successful tabletop kickstarter, nearing a billion readjusted to current inflation

I wasn't aware Exalted was doing that badly? It's a niche product so... What am I missing here?

>>97758908
It is out of zeitgeist, and 3e was badly managed, and D&D gained several boosts.

Call of cthulhu too, but it mostly affected WoD.

>>97759061
Comparing anything to DnD seems silly in the tabletop verse. I would think it's value as a niche product and being compared to other niche products is what matters.

Well that and if everyone got paid while working on it.

>>97759501
It is because WW sells itself in relation to it, but D&D ate the mainstream tabletop community and WW's lunch (queer, minorities & theater kids, etc...)
To the point anons here say that freakshit is a D&D's niche.

>>97758560
>Is Ligier actually a threat to a circle in 3e? Because I'm not seeing it
That's intentional. Essence 6 and over are meaningless in 3e, remember? Also, the explicit design intent is that a circle of solars can beat anything.

>>97758560
>>97759745
Everything in 3e is written explicitly to be underpowered. Because the PCs having a chance of dying is bad design to them. Not that they couldn't just make an extremely powerful QC and explain their choices as well as what to do to tone up or down their antagonists. No it's up to a skilled ST to make a hard NPC and know when it's too much of an issue. Otherwise you just end up with a game that ends after a month because maybe you should have made a decent charmset instead of letting solars get all their end game shit at start while giving them nothing challenging to fight. I cannot get over these bad decisions that keep getting made. A bad ST is going to make an overpowered enemy anyway when you give them nothing that can fight against the party.

>>97759981
>I cannot get over these bad decisions that keep getting made
It is easier to swallow once you realize that they are Martin's disciples, "writing at the seat of their pants", there is no logic beyond overcorrection against 2e, without actually addressing or fixing its problems.

>Overpowered NPCs?
Just kneecap them, npcs just have all the charms that the STs care to give them anyway.

>Bloated NPCs charmset?
You can do like me and just give them simplified sheets, my table never noticed that the Dragon-Blooded that they fought were just 5 different simplified sheets.

>How you make quick characters?
Just see the examples and make your own.

>PCs cannot reach the capstones?
Give the supernal.

>PCs reaching capstones earlier than intended?
Just bloat the trees.

I deliberately pick shitty/underpowered supernals to make my storyteller's life easier.

>>97760383
>I deliberately pick shitty/underpowered supernals to make my storyteller's life easier.
I picked Lore Supernal once. The Storyteller gave up on the game the day after I explained how the training/teaching charms worked. Since then I have never picked a powerful supernal.

>>97760712
That'd do it. I'd like to play a game with Supernal Lore, just so I could have a nuke in my pocket from chargen in the form of God Kings Shrike.

>>97760383
So what does that leave you with? Sail? Linguistics?

>>97760731
Don't forget war

>>97760738
War is great though.
>but muh e5 charms
Nobody takes those even in the trees that have them.

>>97760731
Occult, War, Sail, Linguistics, Bureaucracy, Ride, Athletics, Investigation, Martial Arts, Dodge, Medicine, Performance, Resistance, Survival, Thrown

It's less about taking dogshit and more about not taking anything that feels unfair because it's so bullshit OP. Some of these are OK supernals but they're still shitty/underpowered compared to like Brawl or Presence and don't have cheese as bad as teaching charms or persona or whatever.

Well, Bureaucracy has that kind of cheese with Speed the Wheels, but that's essence 1 and not really relevant to supernal.

>>97760383
Why would you nerf yourself?

>>97760785
Read my post again.

>>97759981
I legitimately do not get your crying. You don't want Solars, just play fucking Dragonblooded since that's apparently your mindset

>>97760785
look >>97760712
Summary: To make the Storyteller's life easier. It's a better move to play the game with a weaker character than to not play the game and have an idea about a stronger character you could play if you got into a game that could accommodate it.

>>97760790
I read your post and it makes no sense.
>>97760797
If your ST can't accommodate charms now, when will he be able to accommodate them? It's stupid and his own failing

>>97760801
>If your ST can't accommodate charms now, when will he be able to accommodate them? It's stupid and his own failing
Anon, I am a Storyteller who has run a lot of 3e, and I have never once accommodated the base charmset's Lore training charms, Socialize's Persona charms, or Craft. Wanna know why? Because they're fucking stupid and badly made. If people asked to play them I just said no. Does this have a negative impact on my games? No. People who want to play absurd bullcrap theoretical optimisation outside of games where bullcrap theoretical optimisation is acceptable and fun, and who remove themselves (or need to be removed because they start complaining) from all games where not every option is allowable, generally aren't the kind of people who're fun to game with for one thing, and screening them is good.

Seriously, this is like asking "If your Storyteller can't accommodate a player playing pun-pun now, when will he be able to accommodate them?" - just don't play pun-pun. There's still a whole game out there outside of your ass, so pull yourself from it if you want to play.

>>97760801
3e isn't ST facing, it doesn't even have a st section in the core and the ST "guide" isn't helpful at all.

Exalted is notorious difficult to run, and the devs didn't do anything to help.

>>97760842
I've also run a lot of 3e and it doesn't fucking matter because of the power level of the games I run. I don't know what your intention is, I don't know what your ideas are, but they apparently do not align with the entire idea of supernal. That's a you problem.

>>97760879
I don't think you're qualified to talk about what the idea of supernal is, random anon.

>>97760879
>mechanics don't matter because I will simply drop a glup shitto with infinite stats on my circle whenever things aren't going my way

>>97760903
I never do that; why would I even WANT to do that?

>>97760842
>fag plays super power game and is mad at superpowers.
/exg/
Some of you guys really would be better off with dungeons & dragons.

>>97760951
D&D is way higher power level than Exalted though.

>>97760958
Big d&d fag here: only sometimes at the higher level perhaps, with certain classes. There's a good chunk of the game that's immediately out classed by the most basic charms.

>>97760958
>Death of Obsidian Butterflies
>The Horde is no more. What Horde? Doesn't matter. Whatever one was in front of the sorcerer.
>This is a First Circle Spell
>Higher Circles destroy cities quickly, countries somewhat more slowly

There are also no NPCs breathing down your neck to enforce setting status quo like there are in most D&D settings, so you're much more likely to use your cool shit.

>>97760951
Every other super power game I play has better balance than Exalted, where you have a guy who can see spirits and avoid a single death blow next to the guy who farts experience points and shits nuclear bombs.

>>97760997
>There are also no NPCs breathing down your neck to enforce setting status quo like there are in most D&D settings
in exalted??? lmao

>>97760997
>There are also no NPCs breathing down your neck to enforce setting status quo like there are in most D&D settings, so you're much more likely to use your cool shit.
*laughs in Sidereal*
*chuckles in Wyld Hunt*

>>97758908
It's not doing badly financially and sales-wise, or at least I don't think it is. Some people just don't like it.

>>97759981
Reminder that this was also the case for writeups in GoD, which where explicitly weaker than they should've reslly been so that mechanically unoptimized characters would still feel like badass Exalts against them. Not that 1E making the same mistake makes it any better, of course.

>>97760797
That doesn't really fix the underlying problem.

>>97760791
Dragon-blooded can also beast through the QCs. This is a design problem and as >>97760864 put it, it's not helpful to STs. This really gets absurd when you are reading through something like sidereals which talks about currency a lot but doesn't actually go into how much sidereals get and how much things cost in heaven because if there's something that 3e is allergic to it's helping the fucking st.

DnD is only more "High power or fantasy" if you homebrew it as such. There is something fundamentally different between people extrapolating what wizards can do if there are 100,000 of them and the super powers that Exalted have.

Basically stop thinking the weird ass game you played where you broke the setting is relevant. A ton of things in DnD are just setting fiats - look at the lady of pain and how she can just instant kill you. Or any faerun god. I like DnD and all but it really doesn't mean anything in the context of Exalted. You can't make a railgun or move objects through free actions even if the mechanics are okay with it - it's silly I don't care if you allowed it in your game.

Also the social system is great in both 2e and 3e and doesn't really have anything that can compare in dnd besides the DM just letting you do whatever because getting stupid high bluff and persuasion rolls in insanely easy.

>>97761173
>DnD is only more "High power or fantasy" if you homebrew it as such
if you ignore any spell higher than 6th level maybe

>A ton of things in DnD are just setting fiats - look at the lady of pain and how she can just instant kill you. Or any faerun god.
third circle demons, deathlords, hekatonkhire, greater elemental dragons...

>You can't make a railgun or move objects through free actions even if the mechanics are okay with it - it's silly I don't care if you allowed it in your game.
and you're arguing against people saying xp generation and similar cheese isn't tolerated in most games?

>Also the social system is great in both 2e and 3e and doesn't really have anything that can compare in dnd besides the DM just letting you do whatever because getting stupid high bluff and persuasion rolls in insanely easy.
true and possibly Exalted's biggest redeeming factor

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>>97761173
>Also the social system is great in both 2e and 3e

>>97761173
This isn't about high power or low power you fucking retard. This is about making threats that are appropriate for the party that already have the equivalent of DnD level 15 powers at start. I seriously don't understand how you could jump to talking about the lady of pain.

It's hard to keep a game going unless the party just doesn't care about what's happening in the campaign. Most of the people get bored when there are no threats, unless you get easily entertained by isekai.

>>97761200
>unless you get easily entertained by isekai
That does describe a lot of Exalted players, in my experience...

>>97761189
I'm not even sure if the Kukla compares to the countless "I just win" powers in DnD. Seriously go to a DnD forum and talk about how you want to fight gods and such. You're gonna love the classic "That level 30+ thing was actually just an avatar the god itself could just kill you."

>and you're arguing against people saying xp generation and similar cheese isn't tolerated in most games?

I don't mind cheese but we can't honestly be defending using mechanics to do stupid shit like lining up NPC's to instantly move items back and forth. That's not cheese, that's just something profoundly stupid that's mechanically legal.

>>97761200
Who the fuck cares about level 15 and comparing exalted to dnd. If it matters at all doing fights in DnD that are fair and balanced is also hard. I'm not sure about 5e but in 3e the CR system they used was fucking useless.

Knowing how to challenge your Players is a pain in Exalted for sure. You just need practice and such. I know I found it difficult.

>>97761230
>I don't mind cheese but we can't honestly be defending using mechanics to do stupid shit like lining up NPC's to instantly move items back and forth. That's not cheese, that's just something profoundly stupid that's mechanically legal.
>not cheese
>profoundly stupid but mechanically legal
Cheese: profoundly stupid but mechanically legal
That is as accurate a definition of the term as I can think of. Whether it's stupid because it's exploitative, because it's unintuitive, because it's rushed, or whatever.

Most Exalted fans have never played and never will.

>>97761284
Anything to back that up?

>>97761284
Just as well, Exalted is unplayable.

>>97761173
Exalts don't have any claims to power outside of mechanical exploits either though.

>>97761280
...No? I've never heard of cheese described this way before and I've never seen someone defend the NPC railgun from DnD before. We're not at the point where people think you can play Pun-Pun at the table right?

>>97761304
2e and 3e work just fine, I have no clue about 1e.

>>97761173
>Also the social system is great in both 2e and 3e
really tried to sneak that one in there lmao

>>97761367
>...No? I've never heard of cheese described this way before and I've never seen someone defend the NPC railgun from DnD before. We're not at the point where people think you can play Pun-Pun at the table right?
I'm not arguing for it, I'm asking why you're arguing for the equivalents in Exalted.

>>97761383
I don't mind cheese. The DnD equivalent would be a silly charge build or a magic missile build. There are just limits to how stupid things can be even if they're mechanically viable. Like the NPC railgun. Or healing by drowning.

>>97761399
>There are just limits to how stupid things can be even if they're mechanically viable. Like the NPC railgun. Or healing by drowning.
Or cheesy builds that let you count as tiny, small, medium, large, huge, gigantic, and titanic at the same time. Or let you stack area of effect on dragonbreath to nuke planets. Or combine the ability to convert damage into skill bonuses with infinite damage loops and death delay effects. Or screaming so loud you blow up the sun.

But surely the ability to generate exponentially more experience than you would normally receive is okay, right? Or, how about that simple trick where you dodge losing xp to training? Or how about having unlimited magical energy in your pocket? Surely these are fine too, right?

>>97761425
I don't know, I just think an NPC railgun or mass transit of items by dropping and picking them up as a free action is way too far.

>>97761435
And you're right. But it's possible to be too far before you're way too far, and it's reasonable to ban things that are just too far.

Just play mutants and masterminds or acknowledge that Solars actually work best in like solo or duo player games to keep them honest. A full circle of Solars is bonkers.

>>97761549
Not wrong.

>>97761549
>mutants and masterminds
awful game with some of the worst combat ever conceived

>>97761587
lol you don't play it.

>>97761587
Saying saying this in an exalted thread shows some real lack of self-awareness.

>>97761640
never claimed exalted had good combat though

>>97761640
Why don't Awareness charms include self-awareness?

>>97761644
Mutants and masterminds is a much more functional combat system right out the gate. I played it for years over the basic Exalted system for this reason.

>>97761670
nah it's trash

>>97761673
Any specific examples from your personal experience playing the system with other human beings?

>>97761679
rolling d20 over and over for a chance at minor effects is fucking horrendous

>>97761681
But enough about Exalted

>>97761681
You've never actually played the game. You maybe read the SRD and got a couple steps into making a character before you gave up.

>>97761694
I was unfortunate enough to get duped into playing it and it went exactly as described, and we all collectively dropped the game when we realized just how bad the combat was

it's like the tabletop version of an INTERNET FIGHT gif

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>>97761685
>Exaltd
>d20

>>97761698
lol no you didn't, because that isn't how it goes at all unless you're intentionally doing the least optimal thing possible. I'm willing to believe you scuttled the game out of spite though.

>>97761715
that is exactly how it goes though

you roll a d20 for ages until something finally happens (you give the enemy a -1 penalty and then you just have to keep rolling)