>>97746930
>How do you handle mounted combat in your games?
It's enough of a headache that I'm trying to avoid it unless I'm playing something like ACKS where it is a lot more formalized.

That being said, only a mount that is war trained will avoid having to roll morale every round in combat.
And if you are trained for for war riding you can worse with your hands occupied, such as Lance and shield or bow. I can probably keep going into minutia that I would pick

>>97746930
>How do you handle mounted combat in your games?
It's easy, I just let the PC attack like the appropriate category of horse.

Session 59 of my BFRPG campaign today,
Players checked around town for any recent news in the region. Seems that someone found an abandoned house in the woods to the west on the northern side. They speculated that it was near the hidden lair of a necromancer that they had slain last year and made note to return there and search around a bit. They also heard strange stories that a farmer walking up the road saw "An egg with legs" jump out of a bush and run across the road. The folks around this region are always telling strange stories, so they decided not to worry about this just yet.

They returned to the dwarven mines and continued to explore the first subfloor until they came upon a room dedicated to the shrine of a rat spirit trapped in an effigy. It tried to wheel and deal with them and tried to get one of them to sign their soul over to it. And just as everyone was about to say No, one of the dwarven fighters asked, "What's in it for me." So he's packing a giant wicker rat effigy around, and has a fancy ring "Blessed" by the rat to make him silent. He also gets one daily use of the "Darkness" spell in exchange for his soul...

I don't usually allow direct inter-party conflict in my games, but in this case it was too interesting to pass up. The other dwarf in the party realized that his kinsman sold his soul to a rat spirit, and he was so disgusted that he attacked him. The Fighting-woman of the group split them up and kept them from killing each other. Ultimately they agreed to a temporary truce because they found a magical coffin of a dwarven ancestor. Any weapon made by dwarven hands becomes blessed for 24 hours once laid in the coffin...

So, a little bit of progress made.

>>97746930
>How do you handle mounted combat in your games?
Attacking from higher ground, gets an +1 to to-hit rolls.

Do you guys use a "Caller" in your games like B/X suggests?

Do your players like having someone speak for them?

>>97749597
>Do you guys use a "Caller" in your games like B/X suggests?
In large enough groups they are extremely useful, or running sessions becomes a huge headache for the DM.

Few things are more annoying for the DM than starting to adjudicate decisions that he believes have been taken, only for a player to cut in and say that no, he's going to do something else that conflicts with what the DM is adjudicating.

>Do your players like having someone speak for them?
Callers don't really "speak for other players".

Their role is to moderate the discussions between players when complex decisions need to be made, which has the dual benefit of (1) helping keep the pace up so not too much time is wasted on decision making and (2) informing the DM of when the discussion is over and the party is ready to proceed, which frees the DM up from having to listen, moderate, and prod player brainstorming discussions, and can do something more useful in the meantime.

It's not like if the caller makes a mistake in relaying another player's decisions, then the player can't point it out while the caller is relaying it. The point is to make things quicker and more efficient, not to set up some kind of domination hierarchy between the players.

I've been looking at Traveller these last few months — I know it ain't OSR, but bear with me, because there's an evolution in the editions that mirrors the way D&D was ruined as the years went by.

The very first edition, the 1977 one, had a very clear implied setting and economic engine. Many parties started with a starship and drowning in debt, and had to find ways to make travelling and trading profitable.

One of the huge money sinks were "jump cassette tapes": Every time you wanted to jump from a system to another, you had to buy one for a hefty price (10k CR, good for only one use), and these were on sale exclusively to travel along the main "space lanes". The way to obviate this expense was to buy a "generate software" for a buttload of money (800k CR), which allowed to travel anywhere.

Additionally, there were encounter tables in which pirates, the main risk for trading, were concentrated in the best star systems. So initially players would stay away from the best star system, eke out a living in the less dangerous fringes, buy a "generate software", then buy better weapons for their starship, and finally they would start travelling to the more dangerous but more rewarding systems.

Clearly this mirrors the D&D development of levelling up, being able to go to deeper dungeon levels, and then going into the wilderness.

1/2

>>97750391
2/2

Later editions of Traveller fucked this up this progression in a bunch of ways. Already in the 1981 version, the encounter tables were reversed, so pirates were in the less economically rewarding star systems, and the better star systems were pretty much safe.

Later on, in the CE SRD, the whole "jump cassette" and "generate software" progression was killed by letting characters generate their own jump plots with a skill check that only takes one hour per attempt, and can be repeated as many times as needed until you get it right, with no possible adverse consequences associated with failing.

This mirrors "Wizards" spamming cantrips and the myriad skills in WotC D&D that trivialise exploration mechanics.

So both Traveller and first decade D&D, despite all their differences, were fucked over by later editions in much the same way.

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today's the day boys. long gaps due to my work schedule has me itching so bad every time. the party is mustering up steel and spell to take another dive into Stonehell. they will probably take the bait and head right for the hobgoblins on floor 2, I'm pumped

>>97750559
WHOAH! Looking forward to your report. This is SotB, right?

>>97749597
I've gotten players to have a caller with larger groups and it helps quite a bit at 5-6 players. It gets the players to think about what they're doing as a team a bit more too which I think is part of osr play that isn't as clear compared to other more contemporary forms of dnd.
Listening to them deliberate is fun, gets a party vibe and internal dynamic, gives me time to think a bit and if they're taking too long lets me easily communicate that to everyone as an exterior voice.
Having a separate mapper and note taker helps too. Sometimes finding the right player for that takes a bit, sometimes its easier to figure out who is okay with being a bit more quiet and writing things down. The doodler is often a good candidate.

>>97750908
I have four players, I was toying with the idea of giving each of them a job: Caller, Mapper, Note-Taker, and Accountant

>>97751157
Go for it.

>>97746930
>How do you handle mounted combat in your games?

I can repost my revamped horses if needed

Name HD Movement Damage
Rouncey 2 150’ (50’) d4
Draft horse 3 90’ (30’) d4
Courser 3 120’ (40’) d6
Palfrey 2 240’ (80’) d4
Destrier 3+2 210’ (70’) d6+1
Jennet 2 180’ (60’) d4+1
Wild 2 240’ (80’) d4+1
Pony 2-1 120’ (40’) d6-1
Small Pony 1+1 90’ (30’) d4-1

>>97751468
Forgot to add.
The horses you can use for war here are the Courser, the Destrier and for light cavalry the Jennet. Ponies have a +1 to saves.
For mongol-like war ponies still use a Jennet but add +1 to saves and increase the cost.

>>97751468
I'm sorry but this is pointless to me.

Draft horse, War horse, riding horse, mule. You seriously need more than that?

>>97749597
No, they're a waste of time compared to just declaring your characters actions yourself as a player. And if the B/X examples of play are anything to go by, it even discourages using a caller because their caller mixes things up all the time and gets another player's character killed by triggering a saving throw against poison.

>>97752434
I'm fascinated with your assertion that four players individually taking their turns is less time consuming than using a caller.

I'm gonna give up and have AI design my hexcrawl. Give me three cool things to tell the LLM to put in it.

>>97752889
You should put the end of a shotgun barrel into your mouth.
Don't use the ai, go read a fantasy book or watch a fantasy movie and steal things from it to put in your hex crawl

>>97748067
>Session 59
bullshit

>>97752393
I think people underestimate their importance at low level and also in the societies that inspired the standard D&D setting so to speak. I think they need more nuance and options.

I also added options for warriors. Certain small maces and hammers and sabers (d4-d6 damage) deal double damage in ride-by attacks if th user deals double damage with a lance when charging mounted.
Well, a ride-by is just a move and attack the guy on your right here but you know what I mean.

>>97752549
ntayrt
I can see how if everyone's ontop of it 4 players can describe what they're up to in fairly quick order. Its more a manner of making it easier for the DM to take in and getting the 4 players to act more as a team at that point ime.
>>97751157
This will vary by group a lot but if you have someone keen on being the accountant do it. Most of the groups I've run games for end up with 1 or 2 players who are more inclined to do any of the notes, maps, etc.

>>97752393
He's just using history faggot names for light, medium, and heavy horse. That's actually less granularity than in AD&D.

>>97750577
the party cracked open a door and the nearly level 4 fighter received a critical hit from a giant black widow spider. he failed his poison save. one random encounter with the organized, tactics-using hobgoblins proved the deadly threat they pose, much more than the warnings from NPCs. the party did not complete any of the quests that led them to the second floor, and the treasure haul was meager, but retreat was necessary after the damage sustained and ally lost.

lost on the spoiler. if you're referring to the art, it's simply something I saved from a random art thread.

>>97753294
No, you're grossly overestimating the importance.

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>>97754216
NTA, but I think you need more horse

>>97754199
Thanks for the report!

>lost on the spoiler
I was wondering if you're the Stonehell on the Borderlands Anon, or the other Stonehell Anon. Evidently you're the other one.

>>97750391
>>97750398
Someone in my gaming group has started up an OG Traveller game and it absolutely gels with the vibe of the old-school D&D - Or at least we're trying to play it that way.
While not relevant to this thread (out of a necessity I understand & agree with), I do think it is a shame because I think there could be a way to bring the original rules into the fold/under the umbrella of how some of us here like our games.
I think impossible though in this current climate.

>>97755205
I've played tons of Traveller, and it doesn't play remotely like early D&D IMO. And there's not enough mechanical similarity to make for fruitful conversations.

>>97755208
We have only played one session, but it seemed like we're playing a hexcrawl.
We even proceeded through a derelict ship much in the way of a dungeon crawl.
The party plans to earn money in order to get a better ship & equipment, and there are strict & concrete rules for this.
Many PCs will probably die from encountering something randomly generated while travelling, and this won't matter because we'll roll up new characters who might have better chances of survival.

What were your traveller games like?

>>97755223
>>97755208
>>97755205
Traveller is pretty off topic. OSR isn't just
>the vibe of the old-school D&D

>>97755065
oh, I see. while our game started with keep on the borderlands, and then Stonehell, still using the keep as a base, I've never referred to our campaign as SotB.

>>977535
> less granularity than in AD&D.
No, but comparable. I am missing which type of horse from A&D is missing there, adjusting for the fact that horse HD in BX are slightly different.

>>97749597
>>97749823
>In large enough groups they are extremely useful
This anon.
I found them useful when playing in say 10+ people in in 4.

>>97754216
In my experience the "X" part of the game has for several levels an important part with boats and horses, maybe most people skip that but horse choice was vital for me.
There is also the trope so to speak of good horses, or elven horses or other types. They are so rooted into tradition that I think adding granularity is important.

>>97752889
>>97753040
AI can be useful if it can help coding a generator, but you should construct that generator with your creativity and monster/land composition and should be something that numerically can be reproduced rolling dice.

>>97756311
Weird opinion: I don't like mechanical generators. There's something about the labor of rolling all those dice and consulting all those tables that makes the result feel more important/final. When I can just slap a button I'll roll 50 times and end up looking at something else, the lack of weight behind generating the result makes it too easy for me to discard.

>>97756330
It's not weird at all anon. I also love to roll tables it's not only the finality it's also the sensation to be 100% honest. It's the good old physical book vs pdr/kindle.
My point is that if one wants to, should make something that is reproducible with old D&D dice.

>>97756330
I tend to use them for mass rolling on things like the initial room key of a dungeon floor. Instead of rolling 40 or so D20s, I just generate the results and use them in order for the room contents. Easier to organize and faster to just note the result, mark it on the rough draft room list and move on.
For individual room details and such I shift to manual and fill in the details.

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Actually might fit better here since Mystara related
>What's the best question you can get a priest of Corellon to pray him for an answer regarding Oberon that will trigger Corellon's anal thunder?

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>>97754369
One thing I like about OSR games is that in practice it makes us appreciate our connection to equines

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>>97752889
The AI comment is gonna get flak (probably why you included it) but instead we can talk about hexcrawls and what we like about them.

I used something like this (one per biome/region) for a non-OSR hexcrawl I ran years ago and felt like it produced some really good results. Players exploring rolled a d12 and then you rolled d6 when they camped.

What sort of hexcrawl philosophies/tools do you guys like to use?

>>97756954
Speak for yourself.

A goose is a Roman's best friend. We hang, scourge, and crucify dogs on the 3rd of August of every year because they're gluttonous traitors.

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Let me guess: you need more...

>>97756311
Your tism is too strong for tabletop play.

>>97757224
Which part are you referencing? Because tracking overland movement is essential for OSR

>>97757224
Don't provoke him, just ignore him.

>>97756981
>What sort of hexcrawl philosophies/tools do you guys like to use?
Mine has become a frankenbrew of rules and ideas accumulated over the last decade.
This video was solid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC-h1haFSIA
and the Wormskin zines' piece on weather for seasons really got my noggin joggin when it came out. Ages ago someone here mentioned rolling for hex contents with a similar ratio as dungeon contents and I've been running with that.
Tried An Echo Resounding and it didn't quite seem right, but there was useful stuff there to pick over in terms of tags.
D30 Sandbox Companion has been helpful as well.
Ran Yoon-Suin's Lahag as a hex crawl but it seemed to encourage a keyed result every hex which ended up being too much. I think it was intentionally trying to get across the green hell of the jungle but it didn't quite work for me.
Having a list of biome features for descriptions to rattle off and riff on as needed has helped out.
Making an encounter table for the region with local apex predators, factions, etc. and updating them as we play is standard operating procedure and might appear to be common sense but I must have picked it up from somewhere.

>>97755065
>>97755765
I am SotB anon, haven't been posting session reports here but the game is still going.
My players also recently went up against the HG army, who had expanded their territory into 1C & 1D. The session was a rampage that ended with the stairs down to 2D being blocked up with deconstructed HG barricades and emptying a barrel of 10k copper coins on top.
Quite funny at the end of the session when calculating XP, it was probably the lowest rewarded session yet. Really drove home to the players what the game rewards vs. what it doesn't.

Session 20 tomorrow night, the players have elected to go on a quest outside Stonehell, something I put in the weekly rumours post on a whim. This is the second time I've made the same mistake of conflating overland traveling to a specific dungeon with hex crawling. I realised too late that I'll essentially just be railroading the players to a lair (Fortress of Oliver Hom, C9 ch.3) that is actually pretty rubbish in terms of design. I've tried to improve the module by reworking some of the preordained events into possible chain-reactions, but how much it is possible to polish a turd remains to be seen.

>>97757546
So now horses are forbidden, too?
Fishfag is obnoxious but the thread is chock full of faggots holy shit

>>97758902
If your players care about this enough for it to really be a factor at your table then rock on anon.
I've played at least one character whose entire purpose in life was 'First we get the horses, then we get the power, then we get the women. Then you ride all three to glory and life is good.'

But you have to admit this is a fairly niche area of focus that you're honing in on. Especially with more exotic mounts out there in fantasy lands.

>>97757186
>I am in tears while carrying you to your last resting place as much as I rejoiced when bringing you home with my own hands 15 years ago.

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>>97758902
Of course there are faggots, it's the 4chinz. Don't respond, just ignore them.

Horses are not verboten, and if that guy wants a couple different types of horse per D&D horse category, it's his campaign and his players, and he likely knows them both better than some rando shitposter anyway

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Do you bother to name your horses anons?

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>>97758902
Just shut up already with your fishfag shit.

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>>97758832
Glad you're still going. Always happy to read your play reports!
>C9
>polish a turd
May your session turn into a beautiful dorodango!

>>97759104
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and concede that perhaps THAT ONE dog would have barked at the Gauls.

>>97758902
Nobody said it was forbidden it's just pointless autism. He's going to end up developing and identity around this and then we'll never be able to get rid of him. He's just a dumbass posting horse homebrew so he has done something revolutionary

>>97759589
Fuck off, demoralization troll

>>97759344
You have really been enjoying that image ever since you found it :-)

When the day comes that he stops infesting our board, we will stop caring.

We already have confirmation from the moderation team that they are well aware of him and his proclivities, so don't start trying to pretend like he doesn't exist now.

>>97759098
>I've played at least one character whose entire purpose in life was 'First we get the horses, then we get the power, then we get the women. Then you ride all three to glory and life is good.'
Had a player get very stoked about being able to afford a horse and then becoming very murderous and wrathful when a henchman failed a loyalty check, ditched and stole their horse to do so.
He convinced the party to go track the deserter down and killed him.
>>97759589
And thus horsefag was born.

>>97756330
I don't think that's weird. There's a direct connection between effort and attention. Easy come, easy go.

>>97756445
This is very reasonable of course. If you're randomizing some huge thing it can just speed the process up so much there's no contest.

>>97759601
Not even close, bozo. The horse thing is just dumb

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>>97759903
>And thus horsefag was born.
he can't be horsefag, I wanna be horsefag

>>97757210
Yes. I require Chainmail Rules For Medieval Minitures by Gary Gygx and Jeff Perren as well.
>>97757812
Which Wormskin has the weather tables?

>>97760591
Don't forget Outdoor Survival

>>97759903
Then he is merged with fishfag and we get Hippocampusfag.

>>97760600
Oh come on, nobody is ever gonna merge with fishfag. I mean, ew.

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Why is it bad for an anon to like rules for fancy horses?
>>97759903
An appropriate punishment for both horse thievery and cowardice. Also denying a horse their favorite human

>>97761371
It's not even "fancy rules," anon just split each of the standard d&d horse categories into two or three historically-named variants. Like if your campaign had a thief, a cutpurse, and a burglar, but mechanically they're all just the thief class with a fancy nameplate that players can pick from.

Whoop de doo. What even is the problem that that's supposed to cause?

>>97761507
>a thief, a cutpurse, and a burglar, but mechanically they're all just the thief class with a fancy nameplate

You do think it be like it isn't but it don't. You say all three of those names are mechanically the thief class, just names for flavour. The list gives 9 mechanically different horses listing different HD, speed and damage.

Not saying that anon spends too much time thinking about ponies and it's wrong to have different types, saying you didn't spend enough time making an accurate analogy.

>>97761780
Oh you're right, there are different HD for them. I saw Courser at 120' (40') and a d6, and Pony at 120' (40') and a d6 (minus 1) and my brain said "these are the same thing"

That means it's more like you can buy an NPC Apprentice Thief at 1 HD, or a Footpad at 2HD for more money, or a Robber at 3 HD for the most money. Maybe with a +1 damage in there. Still, I don't think that's anything quite like writing some sort of shitty 2e Complete Book of Elves splatbook for horses.

>>97759589
Players can collect gemstones, antiques, monsters, PoWs, serfs, strange relics and cargo goods.
Why not horses?

It's actually something grounded in reality and if it works at his table then shit, why not?
Even if it's just "These horses are really rare and valuable, someone'll pay top dollarydoo for them" that'd be enough to make most players a bit curious and lead into some rawhide antics.

>>97754216
The biggest benefit of a mule in older games was your character could only carry so much gold worth of stuff (counting the value of your equipment). Given gold was your XP, it pretty dramatically stifled your character growth entering a dungeon with a lot of fancy stuff. A mule cost 30 coins and could carry 2,000 coins worth of stuff (the most a character could carry was 1,600 and they were getting penalties after 400). Draft horses could carry 3,000 coins but we're more expensive. Riding horses cost the same as a mule, but could only carry 1,500.

While mounted combat was an option, it was more about the carrying capacity aspect compared to anything else and threatening the mule loaded with coin was a good way to make players lose their shit quick.

>>97753236
NTA but that's only a year's worth of weekly sessions. Not anymore, but in high school some of my group of gaming friends played 3-5 time per week, depending on who and the time of year.
Ah the good old days.

>>97754216
Throughout history, horses have been valuable, argued over, bet upon, fortunes made and lost. The slightest variations made into new breeds, such as the modern American Quarterhorse. Even among types and classes of horse, levels of conformation and ability vary greatly.
I'm going to use some of Anon's horse chart to finish fleshing out my campaign's horses. By way of sharing, two unique types are an omnivorous strider type that is bred for endurance and adorable, dopey, very tasty tribal utility ponies.

>>97756277
>I am missing which type of horse from A&D is missing there
AYRT. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if this is actually an old house rule of mine or the way it actually works in AD&D. In my game, each horse weight (light, medium, heavy) comes in the "riding" and "warhorse" variety. That applies to mules and camels as well. I'm sure that war mules and war camels are my own addition, but not sure about horses... and checking the rules is not trivial because they're scattered all over v the place.

In other words, perhaps I was misremembering.

>>97753236
He's been writing reports consistently, each of them numbered progressively. I don't find it implausible at all.

>>97760591
Skill issue

>>97751468
Kinda boring. In a fantasy game I would expect a wider range of demi-horses and evil horsanoids.

>>97761507
>they're all just the thief class with a fancy nameplate that players can pick from.
This is how I know you are a stupid nogames.
>>97753236
What exactly about this is bullshit? The fact that you don't play games?

>>97761925
The biggest advantage of the mule is that unlike horses it can go into dungeons

>>97764317
I would say it's the secondary advantage, because the primary advantage really is just the carrying capacity.
Entering dungeons just makes it easier to fill those meals carrying capacity all the way up

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>>97760591
Number 5.

>>97765691
A horse's carrying capacity is no advantage at all if you cannot take the it into the dungeon.

>>97768435
>no advantage at all
Nonsense. I suppose you also think a wagon is no advantage at all, or men-at-arms to guard your wagon from bandits while you're inside the dungeon.

>>97768498
>I suppose you also think a wagon is no advantage at all
Inside a dungeon, correct. I also think a galley is no advantage at all inside a dungeon.

>>97769304
Being able to create resupply at the dungeon entrance and offload loot then quickly return gives significant advantages to exploration.
The dungeon doesn't restock in the shorter amount of time creating advantage over monster factions you're fighting, gives you more trade item capacity for factions you're enticing and maintains strategic momentum while allowing more aggressive choices about resource use.
Get good.

>>97769532
>B-but some other things are useful for other things.
Sure, for example being able to sail from one island to another gives significant advantages to exploration, which makes Galleys useful. Galleys and horses are still useless inside dungeons. The only beast of burden you can take inside a dungeon is a mule, which makes that a mule's primary advantage.

>>97769532
I'd be a little nervous leaving a wagon (even a guarded one) full of treasure right outside the dungeon, but this is an interesting perspective.

Just have to hope your charisma is high enough to guarantee the loyalty of your guards and that they are strong enough to repel bandits or other adventuring parties.

Actually this sounds like a cool encounter... the PCs return to the dungeon to find another group has left quite lot of eggs in this tantalizing basket.

>get good
the retards are screaming at each other in the DCC thread, we can sneak a little civility in while they're gone. I do think you make some interesting points though, so thank you for your perspective.

>>97770144
left my sage on from another thread, disregard that I suck cocks.

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>>97769532
>>97770144
My players invested in a wagon and driver fairly early into this campaign. I roll wandering monster checks for the wagon and its driver (Wulf One-Eye, drunken laborer) as time passes. After a close call with Bandits, the party hired a small party of footmen and crossbowmen to keep an eye on the wagon while they delve. The party overpays their retainers like crazy and gives them gifts.

A few sessions ago, their convoy (a second wagon was purchased, this one containing mostly laborers to excavate a dungeon entrance) was halted by Gnolls which allowed for a larger combat between a core formation of retainers led by the party, flanking elements of archers and a rearguard of laborers cowering in a ruin.

>>97770355
Sounds awesome!

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>>97770524
It has been pretty good. Longest campaign I've ever run, for sure. We just had our 36th session (playing weekly with occasional cancelled sessions)
Unfortunately, we are playing remotely so the biggest issues have been with players talking over each other or getting distracted. I would much prefer to play in person (especially considering how much terrain and how many miniatures I have on hand) but it's been good overall.

>>97761911
>Why not horses
Why not types of boots? Why not types of fabric? Why not types of ink?
You can ask that question for literally anything, but you're not providing an actual positive argument for your assertion.

This number of types of horses is largely pointless, just like the number of pole arms in 1e

>>97768435
Yes it absolutely is, you have a camp outside of the dungeon, and you make the short trip of the dungeon back to your camp to fill up the horses, and then the long trip of the horses back to town.

Have you ever actually played a game of osr in your life? Fucking embarrassing.

>>97771439
And why not any of those things exactly?
First of all I'm not the guy who posted it, personally I'd never use it.
But I could see rare inks or fabrics coming up at my table. Shit, my group gets a horn on when they get their hands on trade goods in general.
Second, why would anyone have to make a positive assertion for more realism or expansion if it's something players focus in on?

>>97770144
>an interesting perspective.
What? How do you not have a camp full of mercenaries and supplies with carts and beasts to be laden with treasure, waiting just outside of the dungeon?

Is this seriously at esoteric style of play to you people?

>>97771478
I called it pointless, and he equated it to players being able to collect different types of gemstones. I don't believe that this is an argument for the desirability of the minutia for horses he has created.
You can have those different types of fabrics and inks if you want in your game, but they will still be largely pointless, as they have no real influence on the game itself.

Are mechanically distinct from each other, but how often is that ever going to come up and play? And when it does come up, how is it beneficial above just having, War horse, draft, riding, mule?

It's like having the 71 pole arms in 1e. Sure there are some slight differences, and sure some people like having them, but it's still largely pointless to the point of almost being amusing.

>>97771518
>I called it pointless
So are all endeavours in life, particularly posting about how you don't care for something harmless that another guy and his table are doing for fun.

>>97771557
What an empty non-argument.
We are talking about general hackneyed philosophies of life, we are talking about the usability and benefit as it directly correlates to running a game of D&D using these horse types, of which it appears there is none.
It's pointless self indulgent autism, but at least it's a very milquetoast form and not some appalling freakshit.

>>97771587
>What an empty non-argument.
Yes, it is, and I'm pointing it out, which is equally pointless.

>>97771610
Great, you've managed to talk in a circle, go get a congratulatory beer

>>97769958
>Doesn't get it so hard they have to strawman
Anon, the dungeon doesn't not exist in isolation. All travel to the dungeon and the world outside it effects gameplay in the dungeon unless you're stuck playing one shots. You would know this if you actually played games.

>>97770144
GG is light bantz anon. It's okay.
Integrating travel, exploration and having that be a living world is a lot of fun, makes the game more engaging and reactive. Hireling morale and group dynamic adds a lot I find. Give it a try.

>>97771664
This thread has really gone to shit.

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>>97748067
>>97753236
I'm currently drawing up a digital version of my campaign's main dungeon. (Attached is the current region my players are searching, the "Abandoned Dwarven Mines".)

My players and I are taking a week off to go play board games at a local con.

>>97775732
This kind of low-intensity foofaraw is a million times better than the shitposting faggotry the thread had to endure before.

>>97777115
Nowhere near as good as it was even just a year ago.

>>97777419
Seems fine to me, if the worst thing you have to complain about is the nothingburger exchange above, then it can't be that bad

>>97777424
Whatever you say.

>>97777424
It's just the same faggot again, trying to push his "a few trolls drove everyone off" narrative as usual. There's no point in trying to convince him, he's tied to his retarded mast.

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>>97777468
>Whatever you say

Greyhawk lists Beholders as Lawful and Neutral. I'm not sure what, if anything, to do with that information. But It's asynchronous with future depictions of it.
>>97776758
What program are you using to impose the levels over each other like at.

>>97777419
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

>>97778961
>What program are you using to impose the levels over each other like at.
Just using Gimp and making each floor a layer.

>>97771494
>Someone suggests an idea I hadn't considered
>list concerns but am excited because it gets me thinking in new ways
>thanks anon, I appreciate hearing a new (to me) insight
>shitty, self-aggrandizing response

Not even sure how to engage in this thread, man, I'd say that some of you need to go the fuck outside but if you're talking to people like that unprovoked I imagine 'outside' is the place you regularly get your ass beat.

>Is this seriously a[n] esoteric style of play to you people?

It's new to me, but I'm here to learn. I was born in 1986 and didn't start playing TTRPGs until the dying days of 2e. Everything that's being discussed here is the type of gaming my parents did and I can't really go ask them about it. I think it aligns with the stuff I've been moving towards and I'm meeting with players tomorrow to run a B/X game so we can explore the concepts more closely.

So, do you want to tell me more about your play style and what you find important/interesting about it or do you want to huff cock?

>>97780436
>It's new to me, but I'm here to learn. I was born in 1986 and didn't start playing TTRPGs until the dying days of 2e. Everything that's being discussed here is the type of gaming my parents did and I can't really go ask them about it. I think it aligns with the stuff I've been moving towards and I'm meeting with players tomorrow to run a B/X game so we can explore the concepts more closely.
Based. Let us know how it goes.

>>97780436
>So, do you want to tell me more about your play style and what you find important/interesting about it or do you want to huff cock?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G35nrStYMY8

Memes aside I was born in 1991 and I started playing in 3.5 so age isn't much of an excuse.

I think the biggest perspective shift between older osr type play and newer games is basically soft power.

2e onwards tends to focus on being big heroes who wander around and don't really need anyone.
In older games you're not expected to be able to just go out there and punch god square in the fanny for bitcoins then wander back to the tavern in a single day on a casual basis even at high levels, so there's more of a 'So how do I cover my blind spots/get things done I otherwise couldn't do' aspect.
If doing a dungeon is something that can take weeks or months rather than days, you need food and supplies.
If you need food and supplies you need a way to carry and guard them.
And so a dungeon delve is less of a 'Off on a jolly' more of a Victorian archaeological dig but with goblins involved.

And once you've reared Gunga Din to know how to look after the Mules, why not keep him around? After all, the real treasure is the friends we made along the way.
Because they can hold more weapons than we could on our lonesome.

>>97780474
Thanks anon, I honestly appreciate that response.

Actually I do have a retard question, in Moldvay Basic it says that people using two-handed weapons go last in initiative, and to see the initiative section for detail. At a glance it appears to mean that in the "pair initiative" they'd go last, since having big weapon users go after enemies in group initiative seems like a huge mess.

Am I misreading or is there some nugget of context that I've yet to see?

>>97780503
Not a retard question, it's a good question.

>in Moldvay Basic it says that people using two-handed weapons go last in initiative
Pretty much everybody ignores that rule, it's retarded. The slight increase in damage is not worth going last.

Chainmail and AD&D had complex rules for how many attacks a weapon gets per round and who goes first based on the weapon's length and speed what other weapon it's going against. For some reason, B/X dropped all of those rules except for that one, and at that point it doesn't make any fucking sense.

Again, safely ignored.

>>97780632
it seemed especially weird because, if I understood correctly, weapons doing different amounts of damage was an optional rule in Basic. It's an optional rule I will 100% use but still.

Maybe that all will feel less weird when I get started reading Expert.

>>97780663
I use only the D6 for damage and combat is a fail state

>>97780767
So if a wandering monster shows up and reaction rolls say it is hostile the players run away or they suck? Or did they fail because they didn't see it coming and take preparations to avoid it?

What if they ambush it and stomp its guts out?

Yes

>>97780436
>Someone suggests an idea I hadn't considered
because youre fucking stupid. The answer to my question is: "Yes", basic common sense apparently a bit esoteric to nogames

>>97781009
he's trolling you, newfag

>>97781204
I was trolling only about the fail state, I really use only the D6 for damage

>>97781316
>I was trolling only about the fail state
But the n00b passed the test and gave the right answer.
Good n00b.

>>97781403
yeah, kudos to >>97781009 for his reply.

Combat isnt a 'fail state', its an 'end state'. One side or the other is going to die. If you dont want it to be you:
-dont start a fight you arent confident you can win quickly
-be vicious, be brutal, be cunning
-target leaders to break morale
-use the advantage of terrain
-scout and use ambushes

>>97761925
>>97761975
If you want that much simulationism in your tabletop, D&D isn't the right game for you. Please try GURPS, you don't need to reinvent the wheel to get what you want over there.

>>97781403
Combat is where a good DM stands out from a bad one. Fight me.

>>97781428
faggot that first post is just discussing using mules as pack animals for gp (xp)
are you a bot or just retarded?

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AD&D guy here. I think I'd like to take a dive into OD&D. Is there a go-to high resolution scan of the 3 LBBs out there somewhere? I have a printed out copy of Chainmail but I'd like to read through Outdoor Survival, Greyhawk and Blackmoor.

where would i go if im looking for some sorta...pewter gnome?

>>97782373
>Confused dad trying his best to buy his son a meaningful birthday gift, 1983.

>>97782484
only sell dragons made of rasin

>>97782373
Check out Ral Paratha Legacy. They have great Gnomes. Old School Miniatures has some good ones as well but are UK based.

>>97782670
Do you have any kind of a pewter overlord, of some kind?

>>97782169
Have you looked at OD&D Greyharp?

>>97782169
I have the first and sixth printings of OD&D. I presume I got them from the usual places, have you checked if they're there?

Also FYI the 3LBB are *not* Outdoor Survival, Greyhawk, and Blackmoor. I presume you already know this, but by how you've worded it you made yourself sound like that's what you believe, so I'm making sure.

>>97782722
Hadn't heard of this. Will take a look. Thanks.
>>97782768
Not sure why I didn't check the usual place first desu. And I see how I worded my question weirdly. To be honest, I'm pretty hungover today and having a hard time formulating sentences coherently.

>>97783066
based /druk/ bro, what did you drink?

>>97762534
Pegasus Hyppogrif etc are different entries.
>>97759589
>>97759903
>He's going to end up developing and identity around this
I am struggling to understand how one can come up with this conclusion. It's a monster entry like any other.
>And thus horsefag was born.
You aren't even answering to me.
>>97759589
pointless autism
It's one more horse than AD&D1e or something. Was Gygax too autistic for you? Do you retards even now this game you sperg so much about?

What the fuck is wrong with this place? Next time you get upset for orcs and goblins? It's a fucking monster entry. You even say "make a monster" in the OP. I remade and renamed BX styles horses in line with European history and AD&D lmao.
Are words like "Destrier" to scary? Wanna change monster names in sucky sucky deady-dead and fly-burny lizard because "vampire" and "dragon" are too technical?

Pathetic, albeit still amusing.

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>>97784490

>>97784490
Someone didn't get the joke.

>>97781454
>Fight me
No

I just used parlay to shut down the combat before it even started
Rules mastery
Get some

>>97782722
>>97783066
>OD&D Greyharp
Be careful--Greyharp is not a 1:1 reformat of OD&D. There are changes and omissions.

>>97776758
I see. I imagine that it's normally birds eye view then rather than the isometric you have in the pic. Cool stuff
>>97782484
Keked

>>97786219
>fishfag esl retard post

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>>97746930
No-to-low prep odnd+chainmail+greyhawk campaign had a session again yay!

This time the players ventured into the dungeon and went to the part with all the undead in it. They got surrounded by skeletons but the cleric managed ro turn most of them and they won. Afterwards a pack of ghouls attacked them just as they opened the treasure chamber. The ghouls just got really unlucky with their attack rolls and the players beat them with one henchman dying. The reward was 3000 gp and the paladin got a level up. Good session over all and players really did learn to fear the undead because they make no sound so they manage to get a surprice.

>>97783066
Iron Falcon is way better.

>>97785275
It wasn't a joke (the one I am answering to, may posters answered cheerfully) but it's not really that important.
Sooner or later I will come back with a massive giants table

>>97746930
Wait, is Anarchive dead???

That really sucks, I loved looking through old Dungeon magazines there. At least I downloaded 1 or 2....

>>97750391
>I've been looking at Traveller these last few months — I know it ain't OSR
Quisling.

>>97746930
Okay, I'm not an OSR enthusiast, I probably won't be playing a properly OSR game any time soon only stuff you guys call FOE or things even knewer, but I recognize the wisdom of the grogs. So I come to you.

I'm looking for balance decisions and mechanics present in older editions that solve problems newer games have because they abandoned the rule.

I've already got
>10m dungeon turns
>DM rolls for players when success of result isn't obvious. Rolls to know stuff, rolls to skulk around, etc.
>Magic Users need to stay squishy and spread thin on fuel so they actually need Fighting Men and Thieves. Self-sufficient Magic Users breaks the symbiosis.

>>97787617
Players need to roll for their characters for everything. They do not need to know if there are any difficulty modifiers applied to their roll.

>>97787617
3e and later saves are broken. They get harder and harder to succeed at as you rise in level because M-U players of 2e got assmangled that their best spells always whiffed. But the idea is that the higher level you are, the less likely you are to get randomly disintegrated, for example. Similarly, FRW saves focus on the method you use to resist an effect and that's bad too; saves should be arranged by severity of effect as they are in OSR games, so that it's easier to resist something that would screw your character over more. Fucking this up is a huge part of caster supremacy and it's not obvious.

Feats and weapon proficiencies for Fighters are a trap; they feel like they're making the Fighter better by giving him cool abilities, but actually just restrict him from using other weapons and abilities.

Also, you're wasting your time. Hundreds before you have tried to adapt 5e especially into an OSR game, and it's a huge amount of effort that just doesn't work.

>>97787617
Modern D&D is entirely about combat because they switched XP earned to be entirely from combat. And then because combat was so important, they added a ton of cruft to combat, which makes combat take longer, which makes everything even more about combat because it now takes up the majority of the game playing time in addition to driving player progression.

Even if you patch in gold for XP (or really, anything but combat for XP), you're can address one part of this problem, but not the other, because it's now baked in at the heart of the character creations and combat systems as well as the experience system. This is part and parcel of what >>97787787 was saying with regards to trying to make a modern game more OSR runs into fundamental roadblocks along the way.

Still, best of luck, and I hope that your game goes well.

>>97787617
Reaction Rolls + Gold for XP solve a myriad issues with later D&D. Simple to implement, and extremely fun.

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>session 9 we avoid death by literally dozens of bandits at thier little fort in the woods
>Long story short we convince the local leader that we want to talk to his boss about teaming up against the beastmen
>his boss happens to be in the dungeon we are looking for and they give us directions
>literally a down the hall and to the left situation
>decide to find a place to hide out camp and get a fresh start in the morning
>get spooky dreams
>we are definitely in the right place
>decide to leave a level 0 henchmen and a war dog to guard the horses and go in.
We did not get to far in because we were able to deceive the kobold door guards that we were important followers of chaos that wanted to join up. With some good reaction rolls we were able to get some info out of them before treacherously attacking and killing them in the surprise round. We ended on a cliffhanger hearing movement on the far side of a curtain.

The moral amongst the players is quite high and we are happy to finally be in our first real dungeon. The first fight being over before the enemy could act is probably a big contributor.

If one of the experienced anons could weigh in. Did we make a mistake leaving behind a guy to mind the horses? It was that or tie them up somewhere right by the entrance and since 'people' enter and leave we figured they were one random encounter roll away from being eaten or stolen.

>>97785879
Ahh thanks for pointing that out.
>>97786284
Interesting. I'll take a look.

I have a copy of the Littlest Brown Book and of White Box. I think they're both neat, and I keep the LBB in my lunch box at work, but I was moreso interested in doing some research into how OD&D was played in its day.

>>97788250
You made the right call, they can keep the horses safe by hiding if anything comes their way. The dog'll let them know if something is coming.

>>97788236
Indeed. It's funny and kind of sad that so many people who have come into the hobby never thought to just talk to the Orcs when they encounter them.
I'm not saying they don't deserve death, mind. But you could at least talk them into making it easier to kill them.

>>97788265
I was talking it over with one of the other players and we were wondering if it might be a good idea to hire about a half dozen mercenaries to guard our camp and recruiting a henchmen to lead them. When we have more money ofc.

>>97788294
>we were wondering if it might be a good idea to do the most logical and basic upgrades to adventuring
>when we have more money ofc
its 180gp to hire six light foot for a month. How the fuck do you not have 180gp in your party??

No need to be rude, anon

>>97788691
no, explain yourself

>>97788713
They spend it all on hookers, as any decent hero should.

>>97788821
>as any decent hero should
they cant even afford camp guards after 9 sessions. theyre retarded and so are you

>>97788836
Be fair, their DM put the dungeon way it in bumfuck nowhere and made it hidden to boot, they've only just gotten into the entrance on the 9th session, which is fucking wild. They're probably penniless, and I suspect the DM is a mudcore faggot who's put lousy treasure in there as well, and gonna make them struggle to level up. (Maybe even rob their coffers with carousing tables and shit because "adventurers should be broke!!!1!one")

>>97787987
>>97788236
>Modern D&D is entirely about combat because they switched XP earned to be entirely from combat
5e did backtrack that somewhat actually. Traps and puzzles come in normal hard and deadly encounters too so still give that much XP. So a dungeon that's mostly obstacles rather than combats does still level you up.

But it's definitely still a different kind of play from gold XP. Or even 2e's group combat experience PLUS individual XP bonuses for good player and class typical behaviors.
Players are going to do what's rewarded.
One of the reasons I don't actually like gold XP all that much. Sure, it makes players consider options other than kill everything that breathes, but 1. There's non-adventuring ways to gain gold and I don't think the Rothschilds and Musk should be level 20 adventurers, I just don't think they've got it in them, alternately I don't think hitting that gold vein was what made Koschei such a badass in Sisu and prior to that moment he was penniless, and 2. It means if there's no significant gold to be had and it's not an active threat to life and limb it's not worth doing. If a farmer says "hey, there's orc bandits coming to my house to steal my crops and rape my daughters, I have 30 silver to my name and it's all yours, please save me." There's no player incentive to, you know, actually do that.

So I'm not really sure what the best solution would be.

So I'm not

>>97788236
5e24 also adds back in reaction roll, it calls it "Initial Attitude."

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>>97789203
>Maybe even rob their coffers with carousing tables and shit because "adventurers should be broke!!!1!one"

>>97789461
>I don't actually like gold XP all that much
>So I'm not really sure what the best solution would be
Glad to help. The best solution is for you to fuck right off.

>>97789203
My only gripe with the GM is that the dungeon is 2 full days travel from the nearest town/fort. It is a bit far for low level characters. He assures us that we have gotten unlucky with the monster lairs and types of random encounters.
A difference with AKCS2 form B/X or whatever is you don't die at 0 HP you are just probably horribly injured and we have had a lot of time eaten by PCs getting hurt and needing to spend weeks recovering. Like what was supposed to be a quick shopping trip to a bigger town turned into a one week stop because someone got wounded by a giant tick.
Sadly bugs, jackals, sinkholes and baboons do not have treasure and Minotaurs and Warga are way to strong for us to fight.

>>97789461
>There's non-adventuring ways to gain gold and I don't think the Rothschilds and Musk should be level 20 adventurers
Read the rule books, dummy. You don't get XP for gold earned in trade, you have to retrieve it from dungeons via adventuring.

>>97789487
Hey, as a second level adventurer if you are not blowing 50gp a month on maintaining your lifestyle no one is going to respect you.

>>97789509
You do see the problems though, right?
Like it does take the blinders off their problem solving and does keep them going back in the dangerous murder mazes full of monsters. I do not deny that, and if those are the only two results you're looking for, it works.

It just has its own fucky ramifications and incentives too. It doesn't actually fix the fundamental problem of combat XP, it just kicks the can to something slightly more manageable.

I don't think combat XP is the right answer. But I do I feel like whatever XP IS rewarded for, it's maybe better for gold to remain its own progression track of sorts. More gold means better gear, more lackeys, social influence. In that respect even looted but not sold magic items still contribute to that progression per say. As long as there's worthwhile things to spend it on, gold is sufficient enough as its own incentive. At the very least I don't think they should be fully synonymous, maybe at best specifically rescuing valuables from places that civilization would consider them lost (such as in dungeons, in a dragon's horde, at the bottom of the ocean) should be one source of XP. So no merchanting your way to level 20 and not everyone level 20 has or has spent millions, and other kinds of adventures that don't revolve around money or the continued ability to spend it are still worthwhile.

>>97789739
>keep them going back in the dangerous murder mazes full of monsters. I do not deny that, and if those are the only two results you're looking for, it works.

Yes, that is the point of the game.

Honest question: have you actually tried playing the game using the rules as they are written, or are you just theorizing about something you don't have experience with? Lots of things in tabletop games don't make sense from the outside but are perfectly reasonable within the game itself.

>>97789808
You don't even need that, we have like fifteen years worth of analysis on blogs and shit, all about XP for gold and how and why it works, and what its various effects on the game are, and yet this clown's still starting from square one and getting basic facts about it wrong.

>>97787787
>saves should be arranged by severity of effect as they are in OSR games, so that it's easier to resist something that would screw your character over more. Fucking this up is a huge part of caster supremacy and it's not obvious.
Mmmm. Okay, what are your thoughts on removing all differentiated save bonuses entirely? There's just 1 track, individual spells have a specific save DC based on their effect, bonus to resist roll and bonus to save DC increase with HD/LVL so that against an equal opponent fail chance is always on par with the expected probability, but it's also easier for goblins to die to a lvl18s fireball and inversely easier for a Balor to resist a lvl1 wizard's color spray (but slightly easier than resisting his grease, since grease is a little weaker than color spray), and then certain races or classes get bonuses to specific categories of spells. Dwarves get +2 vs effects with the poison keyword. Monks get +2 vs effects with the explosion keyword.

On the xp for gold subject. U think it works really well so long as there are useful things for characters to spend that gold on and that that fact is clearly communicated to players. I have played in games where it definitely felt like I was spending money just to get rid of it.

>>97789876
Then that sounds like either you were given way too much gold, because it was a necessary prerequisite for you leveling up, or else that you were given insufficient things of worth to spend it on.

>>97789604
>we have had a lot of time eaten by PCs getting hurt and needing to spend weeks recovering
Just make a new character dude when your main one is out of commission for some time because of injury. That's actually what that kind of rule is for, to force PC cycling.

>>97789699
>as a second level adventurer if you are not blowing 50gp a month
As a second level adventurer you should have at least 2,000 gp saved, so 50 gp a month are not going to be much of an expense.

>>97789739
>It doesn't actually fix the fundamental problem of combat XP, it just kicks the can to something slightly more manageable.
There's no such problem.

>I don't think combat XP is the right answer. But I do I feel like whatever XP IS rewarded for, it's maybe better for gold to remain its own progression track of sorts.
Go back to /5eg/ or whatever sewer you crawled out of, retard.

>>97789868
>Okay, what are your thoughts on removing all differentiated save bonuses entirely?
My thoughts are that you should kill yourself and then fuck off, in this order. We're not the amateur game designer general.

>>97789891
>you were given insufficient things of worth to spend it on
The DM doesn't need to give players things to spend gold on, they're in the rulebook already.

>>97789868
>save DC based
There's no DCs in D&D, retard.

>save DC increase
There's no DCs in D&D, retard.

>lvl1 wizard
Wizards are 11th level, retard.

>wizard's color spray
Wizards can't cast color spray, that's an Illusionist spell.

Fuck off back to /5eg/.

>>97790208
Not enough for that guy apparently.

>>97789461
>I don't actually like gold XP all that much
kill yourself then, nogames>>97787787
>saves should be arranged by severity of effect as they are in OSR games
the first one "death" is first save often results in instant death. How it that ''order of severity'?

>>97790741
>the first one "death" is first save often results in instant death. How it that ''order of severity'?
It's also the easiest to make. The last save, spells, is the hardest to make but has the most nebulous effects attached to it.

>>97789604
>My only gripe with the GM is that the dungeon is 2 full days travel from the nearest town/fort. It is a bit far for low level characters. He assures us that we have gotten unlucky with the monster lairs and types of random encounters.
Yeah, that's not how that's supposed to work. His assurances are bullshit. The megadungeon should be directly adjacent to the starting town for this exact reason. I don't understand why so many referees make the mistake of insisting on putting their megadungeon halfway up the ass of the wilderness, it's pure faggotry.

>>97790796
I assume it flows from thinking of the dungeon as a small, limited, and sealed-up place with just a single entrance, so how do the monsters get in there?

>>97790755
>It's also the easiest to make
Yes, thats my point. Can you not read?
>in order of severity
>but harshest save is first
>and is generally easiest to make
cant see the dissonance?

>>97789808
>Honest question: have you actually tried playing the game using the rules as they are written, or are you just theorizing about something you don't have experience with?
He's a 5efag who came in asking for old-school wisdoms to apply to his own game to make it less fucky. He has not tried playing an oldschool game as intended, and his preferences are as you would expect from a 5efag evidently.

To be honest, it's hard to even be too critical since he was totally upfront about his situation when he started this conversation (which doesn't mean you're not completely right on XP for gold and all the rest, of course).

>>97789868
>against an equal opponent fail chance is always on par with the expected probability
No, that's all terrible. By the time the Magic-User gets access to Disintegrate the Fighter should be almost totally immune to Disintegrate. Otherwise the M-U just wins. This is the exact fucking point, resisting powerful spells is a high-level character (and monster) ability. It should never be probable or a coinflip for an M-U to take out a Fighter with one spell. Possible, yes, but increasingly unlikely as they both level up.

>>97790741
>How is descending order of severity an order of severity?
You on the other hand should actually kill yourself. You're too dumb to live.

>>97790924
There is no dissonance, you mong. Worse effects should broadly be easier to resist. That's the entire idea.

>>97790924
Easiest to hardest isn't an order to you? Or is it that most dangerous to least dangerous isn't an order? Are you retarded?

>>97790929
>>97790944
>You on the other hand should actually kill yourself. You're too dumb to live.
NTA but Petrification is much worse than outright death, and worse than a spell too.
So why is the harshest in the middle?

>>97790947
>Petrification is much worse than outright death
It's easier to get your character back, and some petrification effects aren't permanent

>>97790941
>Worse effects should broadly be easier to resist
Says who?
>>97790952
>easier to get your character back
Uh, no? Stone to flesh is much harder to get access to than raise dead. (50k cleric XP, vs 600l MU XP)
Also the fact that you'll basically have to leave the stoneman behind.
>some petrification effects aren't permanent
example?

>>97790964
600k** obviously

>>97790964
It's easier because your guy just stays petrified indefinitely, there's no time limit as there is on Raise Dead et al.

>>97791079
I disagree that that it "easier" for the reasons I listed above.
Also, example of temporary petrify?

>>97790929
>No, that's all terrible. By the time the Magic-User gets access to Disintegrate the Fighter should be almost totally immune to Disintegrate.
And he is, because disintegrate would have a low base DC.
unless it's a very weak fighter and a very strong wizard, in which case the difference in bonus progression would make them further apart.

>>97790929
>To be honest, it's hard to even be too critical since he was totally upfront about his situation when he started this conversation (which doesn't mean you're not completely right on XP for gold and all the rest, of course).
suck his dick harder or he'll suspect you're an FOE.

>>97791293
Telling other posters to suck each other off is FOE. Or gay, I forget which.

>>97791303
well D&D is a FAG, after all! ;)

>>97791147
Are you actually illiterate? Temporary petrify? No, the point is that once petrified, a character *stays* petrified indefinitely and can be stone-to-fleshed a thousand years later. Raise Dead has a time limit counted in days.

>>97791418
What? Im responding to >>97790952
saying:
>"some petrification effects aren't permanent"

Do you not understand how to follow a reply chain?

>>97791418
Stone to flesh is harder to access than raise dead. Why is this controversial to you? Also, youre being a right asshole when youre the one who said there and non-permanent personification effects

>>97791437
petrification*

>>97791437
>youre the one who said there and non-permanent personification effects
No, that was me, and I'm talking about the most common save-vs-paralysis you'll encounter, ghoul paralysis.

Magic users get a revival spell before clerics do, but high level clerical services are more commonly available in exchange for contributions at major temples, whereas dickass wizards may demand magic items and/or other shit to resurrect your buddy.

>>97791471
>and I'm talking about the most common save-vs-paralysis you'll encounter, ghoul paralysis
You very specifically said PETRIFICATION.

>Magic users get a revival spell before clerics do
I cant figure out wtf youre saying.
MUs dont get a 'revival' spell, unless you mean Stone to Flesh, which they get at 11th level
Clerics can cure paralysis at 1st level, and have no option for curing petrification.

>>97791483
>I cant figure out wtf youre saying.
I dunno, anon, I'm drunk.

>>97791501
no problem /druk/ bro!
im having cherry taaka vodka with cherry coke and im going to get drunk as fuck tonight.

what are you drinking?

>>97791505
Rum and coke, minus the coke. Rum is the best. (I should work up a pirate campaign.)

>>97791537
Yo, I love rum! I almost always drink rum but the vodka was cheaper.
White rum only though.
Next time you do rum and coke and some lime to it, its called a 'cuba libre'.

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>>97787787
>2e got assmangled that their best spells always whiffed
Yes, the situation was so much better in 1e.

>>97791793
Are you retarded?

>>97791811
yes, but thats not relevant

>>97791823
Neither is you correcting something that nobody said, IE "2e saves were worse than 1e!!!"

>>97791827
>2e got assmangled that their best spells always whiffed
So why specify 2e if its not different?

>>97791831
Because 2e was the edition before 3e, where they changed the way saves worked because their player base complained about it.

>>97791838
fair enough, IMO saves are way easier to make and improve in 3e

>>97791424
Oh, I see. You replied to my post, though, not that other anon's. Not easy to follow the intended reply chain then.

>>97790944
>Easiest to hardest isn't an order to you?
NTAYRT. Saves are not listed in order of difficulty, retard. Fighters, Clerics, Thieves, and Magic-Users have different savings throws, so there's no objective and universal order of difficulty.

>>97792494
It's a rule of thumb, not a hard and fast law

>>97792522
The ayrt anon is right. It's not even a rule of thumb. Here are the AD&D saves listed in order from 1 easiest to 5 hardest by class
>Cleric
1 2 3 5 4
>Fighter
1 2 4 3 5
>M-U
5 3 1 4 2
>Thief
4 2 1 5 3

When two of the classes say PPDM is easiest and two say it's hardest or nearly hardest there's your rule of thumb out the window, it' defenestration is exacerbated by: Spells is nearly easiest, moderately hard, very hard, the hardest so no agreement at all; RSW is easiest for two, moderate, hard. Breath weapon is hardest or very hard for three out of four but it's fourth on the list not the fifth. The order being ascribed to them doesn't exist.

>>97752889
>can't even bother with writing his own prompt
actual goy cattle

>>97788236
Don't forget Morale.

posting it here in case one might need such a thing.

>B/X Generators
Character Generator: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/
Monster Reference: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/bx_monster_reference.html
Scenario Generator: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/bx_scenario_generator.html
Dungeon Stocker: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxstocker/
Trap Generator: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxtrapper/
Treasure Generator: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/bx_treasure_generator.html
Hex Generator:https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/bx_hex_generator.html
Procedural Hexcrawling tool: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/hexcrawl_generator.html
Procedural Dungeon Delving tool: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/dungeon_generator.html
Hexmap Editor: https://primarchofistanbul.github.io/bxchargen/hexographer.html

Doing up a ruin currently, is 20x20 + ensuite an appropriate size for a nobles guest rooms?

>>97796917
>>97796663
All deleted posts are always viewable at the archive 4plebs.org.

>>97796633
good work, bad URL

>>97796633
>sees u scatter when the kitchen light comes on

apropros of nothing, I noticed that in bx a fighter with max con will have exactly 99HP when he hits name level and gains his final hit die

>>97796811
It is, although it may look small on a typical D&D map.

>>97797437
It does. May up it to 20×30 and draw the bed really small to emphasise the size.
>>97797355
Kinda cool.

>>97797468
That's reasonable

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FUCK it is good

>>97796811
for a noble, it should be the size of an apartment or hotel suite.
Id say go a bit bigger, or add a small side room
>>97797487
i like and respect lotfp adventures but I dont think Id ever run them, just because theres so much intensely interesting minutia that will almost never be encountered

>>97797496
I ran Broodmother Skyfortress but reskinned it as a Sci Fi horror !notAlien adventure
>>97797450

>>97797503
Did you get the recommendation to do so (as is in the book) from another anon here around a year back?

>>97797513
Zak Smith actually recommended me Broodmother Skyfortress a few years ago and I really like his stuff so I got a friend to buy me a copy of the PDF, then I saw that Aliens was an option and built a plot around it.

>>97797518
Ah, I asked because an anon was asking about it a while back and I mentioned that it had the scifi option.
Did she have fun?

>>97797529
>Did she have fun?
Definitely. She likes Call of Cthulhu more for detective stuff, but she likes OSR well enough when it's not generic fantasy. She's also probably the biggest Alien fan on the planet. She owns every movie plus related content on Blueray and has heaps of Alien merchandise. It's not that bad as far as fandom goes because HR Giger was a master artist, in my opinion. We ran another game today on Foundry and it was good, and might try to run her some OSR stuff there as long as it's not finicky. Not sure what adventure path would be good though.

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>>97797535
>Not sure what adventure path would be good though
If she like scifi, and dislikes generic fantasy, I highly recommend Anomalous Subsurface Enviroment.

In our world, scientists discover a hidden mountain bunker of unknown origin, filled with extremely bizarre things that allow great technological leaps.
Then, the world is broken, and hundreds of years later, civilizations are small pockets ran by supervillains, with magic and ancient technology side by side. Think thundarr the barbarian meets futurama. The party finds a map that leads to the bunker and they open it up to find it full of strange wonders. Classes include Scientist, Robot, etc. Its awesome

An anon here made a fan guide/players book with extra classes called "legends of the new earth"

3lbb chad here, this is the recap of the last session.
The players enter a dungeon. They find a desperate goblin who has lost his ointment, which he used to attract and command cave ants. The players discover that the ointment was in the possession of a wizard, who was eaten alive by a giant ant immune to the ointment. The players kill the giant ant and dismember it, but find nothing valuable inside. They decide to search for its lair and among the shit they find the wizard's remains and the jar with the rest of the ointment. They bring it to the goblin, who rewards them, only to discover that the goblin was using it to be tickled by ants.

>>97797630
i hate this post

>>97797633
Why? :(

>>97797638
it insists upon itself

>>97797641
What do you mean?

the players have a quest board i update with small missions to encourage going to specific floors in Stonehell. considering adding a post or two to the quest board that either lead to a trap or an ambush, or both. is this fair? was perhaps even going to post a note that calls another quest bogus/a lie. just to cause a bit of suspicion that there's still evil lurking within the keep on the borderlands.

>>97787787
>saves should be arranged by severity of effect as they are in OSR games
You shouldn't go around calling people retarded when you're the one saying stupid things like that.

Paralyzation, pertrification and polymorph (even from a wand) are all more severe than (other) wands, with rods, staves, and staves the same in AD&D for fighters and clerics

But

Paralyzation, pertrification and polymorph (except from a wand) are all less severe than rods, staves, and wands in AD&D for thieves and magic-users

But

Magic wands are more always severe than paralysis, petrification and dragon breath and rods and staves, while polymorph is going to wherever it can go, including as polymorph wands, in B/X

Since those orders are irreconcilably different, special pleading is not an explanation, you're saying that at least one of B/X and AD&D is not OSR. Note "at least", by your criterion both could be outside OSR yet you're the one questioning others intellect.

Even worse, they're not arranged in order of severity as the order actually has no meaning in in B/X or AD&D, that was only fixed with 2e. There are a few little asterisks in AD&D and they help but they're insufficient to count as priority, for example, Wand of Wonder. No points for figuring how that breaks the possibility of those asterisks being priority but you can feel proud of yourself for figuring out something.

>so that it's easier to resist something that would screw your character over more
If that wasn't enough, since you're saying that the easiest to resist are those that would screw over your character more you have to explain why that changes not only with class but with level as the order changes from level to level for all classes except cleric. Thief gets notably comparatively worse at saves vs PPDM while getting better vs Spells, and fighters get generally better vs breath weapon.

>>97797794
I kind of like this idea. I suppose it hinges on how travelled you want your Stone he'll to be.
>>97796633
http://www.barrowmaze.com/meatshields/ Hireling generator.

>>97797794
>considering adding a post or two to the quest board that either lead to a trap or an ambush, or both. is this fair?
Not a fan of stuff like "quest boards" personally, but false rumours are a D&D staple. Typically, between 30% and 50% of all rumours are false or only partially true.

>>97798015
False rumors are great. I like mixing in some absolute nonsense ones with some that sound much more believable. Like sightings of monsters that do indeed have a lair nearby being followed up by another bar patron trying to one-up the first guy.

>>97797355
That doesn't make any sense, the hit dice are random regardless of Con score. You mean on average?

>>97797910
>this guy again
Get over yourself, BFRPG will never be good.

>>97798229
Hey! Don't make BFRPG suffer for his retardation

>>97797794
>adding a post or two to the quest board that either lead to a trap or an ambush, or both. is this fair?
No, but it does make the message board seem more plausible and taking intelligence reports from the equivalent of a fantastical bathroom stall graffiti cluster should have some potential for ill consequence.
>For a good time summon Ba'al Zabub
>Disregard that I suck wands!

>>97798197
I meant max HD + max Con.
8+3=11
11x9=99

>>97746930
How does OSR stack up to 5.5e ?

>>97798749
They're completely different games.
OSR are not "Role Playing Games" They are Fantasy Adventure Games. Meanwhile 5e is... Theater kid pretend combined with occasional number generation borrowed from Dragon Age for story effect.

>>97799085
5e supports sandbox play and theater kids, are you saying OSR is more limited?

>>97799085
Ah, so this is where the "theater kid" trollings been coming from.

>>97799178
That's been a criticism of modern Critical Role style gaming for ages, anon

>>97799268
Critical Role basically invented theater atrics for RPGs

>>97799310
I wouldn't say "invented," there's nothing new under the sun and people have been doing that shit for decades. "Popularized" is closer to it

>Rolling up a new character
>3d6, straight down the line
>First roll is for STR
>Roll a score that has a negative modifier
Welp, that character's completely useless and literally just fodder. Might as well start over and get a new character sheet after the very first roll...

>>97799268
I bet you think porn is sex.
Either way, the trolling coming from here makes a lot of sense.

>>97799310
I started playing D&D back in the mid-90s, and even then I remember an over-emphasis on role playing and players circle-jerking over their character's backstories and bullshit that had nothing to do with the actual game itself. It's been a thing for a long-ass time.
In the early 00s I had a DM that insisted that everyone submit a 9 page character background with their character creation... And girls we played with (Which there were, and always have been many in the tabletop gaming world) would keep "Character portfolios"

It's not a new cancer.

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>>97799116
>5e supports sandbox play
Does it, though?

>>97799085
>OSR are not "Role Playing Games" They are Fantasy Adventure Games
Either that, or Fantasy Wargaming Campaigns.

>>97799667
>It's not a new cancer.
100% correct. Mercer is the new boogie man see what I did there? but theatre kids have been plaguing D&D unofficially since day one and officially since "AD&D" 2e.

>>97799667
Well then I guess 5e does what players crave.

>>97799934
Yeah, set your campaign on the sword coast and toss wrenches at the players as they set out to do stuff.

>>97799934
Yes, it does. The issue is that 5e-only DMs don't know how to run them.

>>97799952
ha
ha
ha
ha
staying alive staying alive

>>97798749
Not ever related. Are you retarded?
>>97799178
theatre kids have been compllained about in D&D since the 70's you bufoon
>>97799637
fuck off, retard
>>97799981
>I guess 5e does what players crave
cool, go play it, somewhere else
>>97799987
Id love to see the rules on hexcrawling in 5e

>>97800196
>Not ever related. Are you retarded?
You seem to be, it was a simple question.

>>97800215
And the answer is "theyre not even related".
Is that hard for a nogames troll such as yourself to digest?

>>97798641
Oh, right. I should probably have been able to do that math myself in hindsight, kek

>>97800382
It's been answered. They are not related. They do not stack up.
You come to my house, begging for scraps, and when you get your fill, you reject it?
Dissect yourself, faggot

>>97800531
No worries it was a last minute "in bed" thought

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>>97799981
>Well then I guess 5e does what players crave.
It's got electrolytes? Looks like Idiocracy was a documentary after all.

>Yeah, set your campaign on the sword coast and toss wrenches at the players as they set out to do stuff.
Cool, but you didn't actually need to elaborate further to show us you don't actually know how sandbox play work, we already knew.

>>97799987
>Yes, it does. The issue is that 5e-only DMs don't know how to run them.
Picrel

>>97800755
Based checkt and correct

>>97800755
Cool story bro, why don't you go play a game for once.

Is modern necessities for BX/OSE any good?
I want to run a fantasy horror world war 1/2 style campaign with guns/magic.

any advice

>>97800967
Twilight 2000

>>97800967
>fantasy horror world war 1/2 style campaign with guns/magic.
B/X is a terrible fit for anything modern, I don't think anything in the OSR really handles modern firearms well. Flintlock is about as good as it gets with the game's combat abstractions.
>>97801002
Wow, offtopic, not what he asked for, and also a terrible fit, but in the other direction! 1/10 do better next time

>>97801046
>>97801046

I appreciate the input. The campaign idea in my mind is akin to Trench Crusade. But rather than alternate history earth, a more fantasy themed world. Dwarf engineer corps driving tanks, Holy medics and Arcane practitioners, and all of those trappings.

Im most familiar with BX as it is my home system, but never ran anything like this before.

>>97800967
Operation White Box is ww2.

>>97800967
Not a good fit imo

>>97801046
>I don't think anything in the OSR really handles modern firearms well.
Honest question: What's a system you think works well, and what would prevent someone motivated to incorporate it into O/A/B/X/D&D from doing it? Say someone wanted to have a planar detour like the DMG suggests with Gamma World and Boot Hill.

>>97800226
>D&D and D&D aren't related because I said so
How about no, retarded faggot.

>>97800967
I looked for this sort of stuff recently, because I had a time-travel portal in a dungeon and I wanted to do some short segments where my players could "Dungeon crawl" in a modern setting before going back through the portal...

I found a couple of interesting games, but honestly nothing does it in a way that I felt was 100% right. There was a book I looked up called Dark Streets Darker Secrets, it seemed interesting but was fundamentally different than B/X and the like. Then there's also Base Raiders, but again... It's so different.

I'm curious about the same question, but for Sci-fi stuff. (Like knock-off Star Wars.)

>>97800196
All you need is overland movement times and basic math skills to run a sandbox. Hexes are a shorthand at best and a crutch for retards like you.

>>97801635
>sandbox = overland travel
Nice way of confirming that you don't know what you're talking about, anon.

>>97801283
"D&D™" is just a trademark. Hasbro can literally decide to publish a new Monopoly set and call it "D&D™", but that wouldn't make it related to Gygax's D&D in anything but branding.

So sure, WotC published lots of stuff under the "D&D™" trademark. None of that is related to the real D&D except in, again, branding.

>>97801635
>All you need is overland movement times
lol
lmao, even

>>97799178
>no apostrophe
Fetid.

>>97800382
>[Deleted]
LOL
eat shit faggot
>>97801635
No, I asked where in the book the rules are.

I'm sad guys. I lost my best character tonight in my friends campaign. In all my years of playing he was the one I played the most. A level 12 thief named Liel, The Knife. He died falling off of invisible platform while fighting a white dragon. The rest of the party was unable to retrieve his body because it fell down a big crevasse and I don't expect them to go back down in that particular floor of the dungeon for a looong time.

RIP Liel.

>>97801872
RIP, Liel.

>>97801872
He died fighting a dragon, and thats how all good adventurers are destined to die.
What was his best achievement?

>>97801270
Twilight 2000

>>97801635
they hated him for he had BTFO out of ya'll

>>97801650
What a schizo, I get it you can't answer the question, but others have and that means you failed.

>>97801872
Roll a new character, proper OSR is a meat grinder.

>>97802037
A travel games needs game rules outside of "movement speed".
Stop masturbating yourself, 5e baby

>>97802078
Unrelated

>>97801928
>What was his best achievement?
It's hard to say. He was a very tricksy thief.
One time he was about to die during a fight with this powerful undead, so like a coward he hid inside a coffin. When the undead had killed most of the party and the other retreated, it tried to return to his coffin, only to be surprised that I was there. My DM was like, "You genuinely surprised him! Do you attack?" I don't remember the specifics, but I did just enough damage to trip him so that the rest of the party returned for us to curb stomp him while he was down. Another time we got lost in this illusory dungeon and we were slowly losing people to random encounters and traps. While playing as Liel I realized that there was a grate in one room that was the only consistent thing on that floor, and by taking the risk to jump down there, he found that it led to the exit of the dungeon.
This is going to sound cheesy and stupid, but he also fought at the battle of Horse-River, which was a huge skirmish between humans and goblinoids. All the other characters that fought in that battle are now gone. Liel was the last of them.

>>97802046
>OSR is a meat grinder.
Doesn't mean we can't mourn the chunks of meat that made it through!

Is there anything I should take into consideration before I reflavor my magic as Alchemy?

>>97802177
are you changing how it works mechanically in any way??

>>97802183
I guess the only thing that I'm changing is how the spell effects are activated in the world. For instance, I guess "Magic Missile" would be a bottle that I throw.

>>97802229
Okay but I asked MECHANICALLY.
If you have to throw the bottle, are you rolling to hit?
These are the questions you should be asking yourself

>>97802244
Right, right. I get what you're saying. Flavor is flavor, and don't really matter (Unless you're going for a specific vibe in the setting.)
Mechanics are the thing that's really being altered within the game itself.

Though, this does raise another question.
Would there be anything wrong with letting my Magic-Users learn things off of the Cleric spell lists?

>>97802310
So then yes, what you should take into consideration is not changing the mechaincs at all. Make him an alchemist, but make everything work the same. Drastically changing how a class works is of course going have large rippling effect.

Same with allowing them cleric spells. Why even do so, what are you thinking youre fixing??

Seriously, just play the game RAW by the book for at least 24 sessions before even *considering* homebrew, let alone this drastic of homebrew

>>97802318
>at least 24 sessions
Seems excessive, I'd say 5-10 is plenty to get the feel for how it actually runs at the table vs how you think it'll go in your head when reading it

>>97802384
>Seems excessive
That's six months of weekly sessions, and I am correct.

>>97802398
>My opinion on this subject is the objectively correct one!
Nice autism

any quick and easy rules on crafting basic, mundane items? What about slightly more complex things?
If my character is a level 2 background with some down time, and is described as having a background in blacksmithing, what sort of rolls should I make to craft a weapon?
If I'm in a dire situation and need a weapon, is making a club as easy as picking up a stick?
Can my character attempt to gather herbs around camp to make a healing poultice?

If the party wants to build a cabin in the woods, do we have to get experts or can we build it ourselves with some sort of materials or checks?

>>97802647
Unless one of the guys have some kind of a related background, I think they'd have to hire an expert.

In any case materials or a workshop would definitely be needed, and maybe not a roll, but time expenditure.

>>97802310
>Would there be anything wrong with letting my Magic-Users learn things off of the Cleric spell lists?
Yes.

>>97802384
>I'd say 5-10 is plenty
Nah

>>97802425
NTA. Autism has nothing to do this. He's right and you're an idiot and acting like a cunt.

>>97803191
Show me in the rulebooks where it says "you need EXACTLY six months of weekly sessions to understand this game well enough to alter it for your table" and I'll agree that you are objectively correct. Otherwise, no, you are the one acting like a cunt, talking as if something subjective like that, which will obviously vary from one DM to another, can be boiled down to one "correct" answer.