Better Artwork Edition>Previous>>97733980>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>5e Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionWhat is your favorite art piece in World/Chronicles of Darkness?
What's your favourite MtAs Tradition or Craft?Hard mode, no Virtual Adepts or Sons of Ether. They must be one of the traditionally magical factions, not Diet Technocracy.
>>97759197>favourite TraditionIt's between the Ecstatics and Hermetics. One is very much focused on sensational and emotional extremes, while the other treats magick as something to understood, controlled, and mastered.>favourite CraftSolificati. Has aspects from both the Ecstatics and Hermetics.
>>97758959Hiya folks. I was thinking of running a chronicle for some long-time irl friends that know little of TTRPGS and the like, so I thought that a game lighter on the inherent crushing depression of the setting would be more inviting. Among Apocalypse, Ascension, Dreaming, Reckoning or hsienfan's V20 KoTE hack, which one would be better for a chronicle less focused in self-compassion and the romanticizing of the fact that every action the players take is ultimately futile (at least most of the time)? How can other gamelines do the same? Is it better to run cofd? I'm excluding exvwod because I love it and I'd rather have them experience it later.
Okay seriously where is hedgefagI’m getting nervous now
>>97759197Akashics, if only because it encapulates the absurdity of the 90s WoD.
>>97759577:^)
>>97759577He's dead
>>97759197>TraditionThe Akashic Brotherhood>CraftGo Kamisori Gama Or technically the Hollow Ones, but I don’t care what M20 says, they are a TRADITION, NOT a Craft.
>>97759522I don't know much about the splats you called out by name, in fact the only one I know a decent bit about is Apocalypse. You can run that one as a balls to the wall "fuck yeah we're gonna stop them", but the default material is pretty grim and crushing if you zoom out and look at the wider war. As for CofD, it's the better game mechanically, but even as a fan of it, it's not an amazing, perfect system or anything. It's just that oWoD is really mechanically fucked to the point some people just can't stand playing it even if they like the setting. The splats are notably different so unless you're willing to do basically the work of homebrewing an entire splat yourself, you it shouldn't be in the conversation. I've found Vigil CAN be hopeful. Lost too. But I can't in good conscience recommend an entirely different game to you without you familiarizing yourself with it first. Ultimately, even the most depressive WoD lines can be run hopefully if you have the right story and the right players. If I were you I'd rather focus on which game you want to run and which you think would mesh the best with your player's sensibilities (if it's their intro and you give them a splat they end up hating, they might sour on the whole thing).
>>97758959>What is your favorite art piece in World/Chronicles of Darkness?I'm a basic bitch, I really love 2E Player's Guide ft. Helena
>>97760147Me on the ground
>>97759634>Akashics, if only because it encapulates the absurdity of the 90s WoD.How?
>>97760147The old VtM books had the best art hands down. Incredibly soulful.
>>97758959>What is your favorite art piece in World/Chronicles of Darkness?
>>97758959TD did WoD art? What's that from?
>>97760643>TD did WoD art?Yes, for CtD.>What's that from?Kithbook: Eshu
>>97760310>Wearing a vest that covers nothingBold fashion choice
>>97760721fashion police don't have any power in space
>>97760643I was actually a little surprised when I found out. I originally knew of his artwork from Planescape. I went out of my way to buy that setting's monster manual because I just wanted to look at his artwork.
>>97758959had this guy as my phone background for the last.. uff 15 years?
>>97759522Maybe Reckoning? Because in the beginning you don't know how bad things really are. You can direct your players not to buy into the "yOu hAvE tO pLaY a lItTlE bItCh oR yOu'Re dOiNg iT wRoNg!!!!111111" screeds that litter the books and tell them they're going to Inherit The Earth and the Innocents are fucking faggots and not allowed in your chronicle, Zeal Creeds and Waywards 100% let's fucking go DEUS VULT!!!!!! (Visionaries can come too if their vision is shoving a stake right up the Kindred's ass).Or maybe Dreaming I dunno I never much read it because it seemed like its whole deal with being a fucking chuni otherkin. >>97760217If the answer's anything other than katanas and trench coats then Akashics are fake and gay.>>97760721She'll just shred it anyway once she goes warform so do you really want her to wear a 100,000,000$ EVA suit with full spectrum protection and comm gear?>>97761053Yeah man RIP TD he was a real one.
>>97760147Oh come on, that's not cool. What'd Beckett ever do to her?
>>97759197>MtAs TraditionHermetics. They have much more depth than the others. >>favourite CraftMaybe the Solificati for rebistic purposes.
I feel you guys downplay the whole FUCK THE MAN thing WoD has, like almost every world of darkness game has the reoccurring "you're a punk, fuck the man, fuck the way things is, change it all". Like its a suicidal borderline impossible goal but WoD seems to think its a noble one. >Pentex are douchebags who control everything>Techocrats are sterilizing the world and everything creative and unique in the name of safety and telling you how to live your life in exchange for comfort while you work nine to five>old ass wizards seething that they're experiencing diminishing returns studying their tombs and eying infernalism or getting the gleam of a marauder's madness in their eyes while dismissing younger mages as foolish and unknowing>Garou Elders and Spirits are stogy assholes who will balk at you for not accepting a suicide mission and strategic planning because it isnt a GLORIOUS DEATH FOR GAIA AWOOOOO>Cammies are brown nosing fuckwits who will constantly make you dicksuck to do even minor favors because they will not leave their havens because fuck you and die>banality as a concept for the fae>The Hierarchy casually rubber stamping some poor fuck getting turned into an ash tray because their an old fucking spirit with no desire to transcend because they wanna be a pencilpusher for all eternityI know the anarchs are cringe but I feel people forget the Gothic PUNK is punk sometimes. In that you shouldnt constantly kneel to the authority and strike back.
>>97761499The Garou Elders and spirits are probably the least "Man" of those "Men". Mainly because they're actually essentially correct, and have had their purpose literally given to them by Gaia. The only way a Garou can actually rebel against them is becoming a Black Spiral Dancer, really. The only unfortunate fact is that the Apocalypse is inevitable.
Ngl Mage Revised feels like Vampire V5 before V5
>>97760721Werewolves are not known for intelligent behavior in either version are they
>>97761528Oh, boy, you are going to love M5!
>>97761528Prob why every Revised player I know tells me to stick with 2nd lore.
>>97761702After the failure of Bloodlines I feel like Paradox is too burned to even care about white wolf anymore and will just spin them off to their own company.>>97761717Yeah, I'm tempted to check out v20 at the very least but holy shit this is such a drag in limiting the setting.
>>97761517Garou traditionalists have got the broad strokes correct, but they have gone about their divine duty in such a fundamentally flawed fashion that they have contributed to the inevitable Apocalypse and that they have made it less likely that Gaia will survive once it occurs.>The only way a Garou can actually rebel against them is becoming a Black Spiral Dancer, really.I wouldn't say so, as hurriedly reforming the Garou Nation and trying to undo the mistakes of the past before the Apocalypse occurs is an important part of the game, to the point where the primary metaplot characters are iconoclasts like Jonas Albrecht and Evan Heals-the-Past. Their whole thing is changing up the status quo of the elders and fixing the Nation before it's too late.
>>97761517i would recommend the silver fang tribe book in those the chosen one of the garou nation get's a aneurysm everytime his elders open their worthless mouthsthe garou are idiots and they ruined everything! the war of rage was not in gaia's interest, murdering kami is not in gaia's interest killing each other is not in gaia's interest pretty much everything the silverfang the alpha clan with their broken pact with luna and so on and so on and the elders do not want to change their behavior at all. not because of gaia told them to she hasn't but purely for the sake of tradition and their own inability to accept that they or their ancestors been wrongfixing that shit is how you are meant to save the world
>>97761499Punk stopped being punk when the punks became the man. These days, it's more punk to be a Camarilla agent stomping Anarch fags, or part of a Pentex kill team gunning down whiny Garou, or an NWO Black Suit exterminating Reality Deviants. The tables have turned.
>>97759522Only Apocalypse really requires you to incorporate its depressive elements into any given chronicle. Dreaming can easily just be a romantic fairy tale of adventure, the oncoming Winter pushed to the back of everyone's mind, which is exactly what the Seelie Court does in lore.
>>97762052You are such a loser with your unc ass opinions.
>>97762122What? Climate alarmism, special snowflakery and collectivist nonsense all dominate the mainstream. The real counterculture involves opposing that shit and returning to tradition.
>>97761499We get the messages and theme, we simply don't care. Sometimes you can side with the man and have fun.
About how much XP should a character have, if they have four dots in their supernatural power trait?
>>97762149Depends on the splat and what you qualify as that splat's "supernatural power" trait.This might be easier for CofD.
>>97762126Anon, I'm sorry to tell you this, but just because those ideas dominate twitterspace and niche hobbies don't mean they are actually meaningfully mainstream. The powers that be are still demented traditionalists reading off empty platitudes while wiping their asses with your taxes and corporations have just learned to pander to both sides of the political spectrum by repackaging what one side hates about the other and selling it.
>>97762170Anon, basically all of the world's most influential corporations and nations are dominated by postmodernists dedicated to dismantling any sort of traditional, natural social order in favour of absolute anarchy. The punks won, they're now in charge and tearing everything down.
>>97762052Again with this? It's not 2016 anymore, we're back in Bush era now.
>>97761633more like Apocalypse and Forsaken aren't known for being written by intelligent people
>>97762200Sorry, but no. Postmodernist once-punks have been placed in charge of basically every corporation and nation and are systemically tearing down civilisation on the behalf of their benefactors.
>>97759577We got a cop in this thread ask him for help
>>97762181>anon has fallen for corpospeak mediaslopFor the vast majority of the world the traditional values line has barely moved, anon. Step outside of Twitter or /pol/ and barely anybody actually gives a fuck about paid actors espousing the progressive values that make the current government/megacorps look good. It's mostly just a veil for those organizations doing all they've ever done - political power plays and optimizing extraction of capital.Climate change efforts continue to be barred by oil barons, snowflakes only have power as hired demagogues, family units and traditional values are largely unaffected while scattered exceptions are broadcast to the world to create the false impression of an actively propagating cultural zeitgeist. Meanwhile everything beneath the skin continues to exclusively benefit old money and corporations making bank world on 3rd-world exploitation so cartoonishly evil it makes Pentex look good.
>>97762241I'm sorry that you've fallen for the propaganda, but that simply isn't true. There's hard proof that the alarmists and virtue-signallers in charge of society for the past twenty years are all anti-civilisation, anti-tradition, and generally just anti-human.
/tg/ is great for bait. It's like people want to fall for it.
>>97762126Original White Wolf is actually a lot more traditional than modern conservatives like you. Lots of the shit in like Mage 1st edition is basically Evola, I'm fairly sure they read him when researching Hermeticism.
>>97762288A well-read postmodernist is still a postmodernist.
>>97761499the fuckwits in charge being self-interested, incompetent, out-of-touch, etc., and that the systems that be only serve to keep the powerful in power isn't something only punks believe. they're not the only anti-authoritarians on the block. you look past that and the whole punk aspect of WoD is frankly just pathetic. "bend the knee or throw a temper tantrum until you get shot" just isn't interesting, never will be
>>97762417Your inability to suggest a superior alternative or a better way belies your bad faith.
>>97762446it doesn't bely my bad faith, it belies WoDs inability to be interesting with it's punk aspects
>>97762241Look man, he's advocating for the "natural" social order like we should all know what that is, he's either baiting or lost, so it's best to move on.
>>97762181Grok is this true?
>>97762251Stop replying to the trolls.
>>97761499What The Man says is always right.
>>97762126
>>97762288The only people I've ever known to read Evola were all communists.
>>97762995Please, stop shitposting. It's tiresome.
>>97763060>Facts I hate are shitpostingStop posting complete bait then.
>>97763060Just report everyone making off-topic politics posts and ignore them. These two do this once a month, it usually ends with the jannies deleting most of their posts and temp banning them.
Unless you're playing as members of the Sabbat, Hunters or Marauders, you're simply not punk. Somebody had to say it, because unless you're willing to embrace schizo-core, you're a stooge of the man. If literally anyone else believes you or what you stand for, then you're not punk. And on that note, the Sabbat and Hunters only apply if everyone at the table is or a different path/ creed.
Which Convention created the J.A.N.N.Y construct?
>>97762995>everybody that disagrees with me is literally a nazi
>>97763211>Trying to push an inherently bad faith argument
>>97763127Why do you think that the Sabbat is more punk than the Camarilla?
>>97763127>SabbatYou mean Anarchs?
>>97763358The Camarilla was literally built by Elders, for Elders, and its laws don't even try to hide this. Honestly I'd say that that's objectively for the best, Fledgelings, Neonates and Ancillae are retarded, but being more correct than the other party doesn't make you punk.The Sabbat is ye olde vanguard party rule, but their underlying goal is to build what they perceive as a better, freedom-enhanced future for their kind. This, coupled with their vague underdog status as well as literally everyone else, including the writers, wanting them dead puts them into the punk category for me.>>97763398No, the modern "Anarchs" are stooges of the MAntediluvians, while the Sabbat are only stooges for the Eldest, but he's based so they get a pass.
>>97763476Also, continuing this, the Sabbat practices the paths of enlightenment, which are forbidden in the Camarilla (as a measure to keep the youth in line). I'd consider this as making the Sabbat more punk only because there are a shitload of paths and they all have different intentions. Your goals and way of (un)life can be utterly removed from those of the guy meeting final death beside you this night, and they're certainly different from those of the Cammie or Hunter that's killing you. I'm sure that that qualifies as punk, on some level.
>>97763558Ultimately, though, the Sabbat wants to be the shadow rulers of humanity, and uses low-grade blood binding to enforce their teams and hierarchy. They're lead by the same kind of lordship elders as the Camarilla in the Lasombra and Tzimisce.
>>97763476>The Camarilla was literally built by Elders, for Elders, and its laws don't even try to hide this.Can you explain why this isn't punk?
>>97763641What do you think Punk is aside from a Johnny Rotten aesthetic?
>>97763635>to be the shadow rulers of humanityMinor nitpick, only the more moderate ones. There's also the "openly rule them as dreadful vampire overlords" faction. "Shadow" rulership is what the Camarilla does, and they're pussy ass bitch faggots. Please pay no attention to the Silence of the Blood.
>>97763673If you jump to attack others when the validity of your statements is questioned, I think that serves as evidence that your statements lack any validity at all.
Kindred are inherently not punk. Garou are punk.
>>97763635Being the shadow rulers of humanity is irrelevant to the question, you could make the argument that a lot of human governments are tyrannical because of how cattle are treated, but most will look at you like you're some kind of retard. The point is how they treat members of their own race, or at least intend to.>same kind of lordship elders as the CamarillaYeah, like I said, Vanguard Party Rule. It's the same kind of dictatorship by the elders, but the goons on the lower levels think that they're fighting for freedom, and railing against an oppressive system that really does exist. Also, in fairness, Monomacy does add a degree of theoretical equality to the current, "Emergency measures" system. If you manage to kill the guy above you, you get to take his shit without punishment. It's just that the guy above you is probably some sort of Combat Elder, so he's probably going to rip you in half. So, I'd say that it's more punk than the Camarilla, which is about currying favor and grinding out intrigue plotlines.>>97763641As I said above in this post, you don't really fight against the Camarilla from within, you curry favor and try to survive. If you're actually trying to be a punk there you fall in with the Anarchs, who are also stooges of the Antediluvians. They're also toothless pussies that are included in the Camarilla charter or whatever it's called, but whatever.
>>97763735What is punk about a death cult of inbred retards?
>>97763765>As I said above in this post, you don't really fight against the Camarilla from within, you curry favor and try to survive.Why would punks rebel against themselves? The Camarilla are rebelling against the Sabbat, that stodgy old guard. They're the punks in this equation.
>>97763766It's a dealth cult of inbred retards.
>>97763809I guess that does apply quite well to the postmodern movement.
>>97763784N-nani? I hope that you're baiting, as opposed to having reversed the entire situation
>>97761976Garou are gonna Garou anon>>97761845The question I do have ultimately about apoc is how, given the context of the elder's elders also knowing a lot of what they did was pretty fucked up and unhelpful, why then are modern elders, and in essence a lot of the Garou, still so set in their ways. I know ultimately this is meant to reflect boomerism and how grandpa/dad is a worthless chud who lost all of his intellect huffing leaded gasoline, but it is pretty curious that a lot of them will straight up admit they fucked up but still double down on>It must not have been us who were wrong, we just didn't for gaia hard enough!
>>97763869What is the First Anarch Revolt, retard?
>>97763881>why then are modern elders, and in essence a lot of the Garou, still so set in their waysCritical thinking only became commonplace in human society over the course of the last century. The superhuman anger of the Garou makes it incredibly difficult for them to rationally reflect on their actions, so most of them just do what instinct and the old ways tells them to do. But younger werewolves who are brought into the Garou Nation enter it with the framework necessary to critique the structure. While they still have to battle against their rage and the elders trying to shove tradition down their throat, their modern upbringing allows them to think much more critically than their forebears. Humans aren't inherently rational, and the Garou especially aren't. 90% of their problems can be blamed on Gaia making them with too much anger in their hearts.
>>97764013>Gaia making them with too much anger in their hearts>Gaia making GarouDon't you mean Ennoia?
>>97763883The younger vampires rebelling against their Elders because they were sick of dying in droves during the War of Princes, forming a movement that would later become the Sabbat? They also pretended to kill an Antediluvian or two along the way. The Camarilla was formed as a reactionary alliance between Elders that offered slightly improved (in theory) and codified rights for vampires that weren't Elders in order to avoid getting killed by their Childer. The Camarilla wholeheartedly represents the older aspects of kindred society, including its infrastructure and power, while the Sabbat is a an ageing rebel movement (about 700 years old or so now) trying to crash the plane with no survivors.Anyway, good bait lad, I appreciated it.
>>97764013>Gaia making them with too much anger in their hearts.Gaia wasn't the sharpest spirit in the universe.
>>97762878Technocratfags ignore the fact technocrats are trying to research the human brain and objectively prove that free will doesn't exist and we are flesh automatons animated by neurotransmitters just because they really jerk off the safety they bring. "At least I'm safe under the boot! : D"
>>97763824You keep saying "postmodern" as if it means anything when the Regressives are firmly in power and are actively driving the world into war, oppression, tyranny, and neo-feudalism, and you're claiming being that is somehow "punk."
>>97764058The alternative is insistence that humanity is special somehow, that we are have special souls that no one else has, that our consciousness is a divine gift of some sort. Religiosity and dogma are not punk, materialism is.
>>97764081>Just because someone get elected, that means they're in charge!Lmao.
>>97764081Say what you will about whether or not it's punk, but this>driving the world into war, oppression, tyranny, and neo-feudalismstuff definitely sounds based. Do you have their business card handy?
>>97764058Yes anon, being a memeber of the ruling class and having control over goycattle is a valid goal in life.
>>97764102Don't reply to the troll, please.
>>97764082I think the technocrats used to be like objectively a good guy faction when they were the order of reason but the modern faction is responsible for Pentex and Syndicate's entire existence which is more damaging than the reality deviants they've terminated. Especially given the Technocracy has left people wholly unprepared to resist banes so there's a good chance you'll be possessed by some horrid freakshit just because you work a nine to five. This isn't even mentioning Threat Null >>97764112I dont think you can opt out of becoming a slave to the Master Computer or another mental battery of Autochthonia. Technocrats also have a huge chunk of barrabi fucking about because of the Pentex connection among other things.
>>97764156Iteration X is a single-issue convention, in the end it's 1984 or ancapistan
>>97764092Oh, I know that the Heritage Foundation and Stephen Miller is who is really making all the actual policy decisions, but are you really trying to claim someone else is pulling the strings on Trump fucking everything up?>>97764102>Bootlicking the fascists is totally punk hurr!>>97764127>Replying to actual right-wing lies and trolling is trolling durr
>>97764174Imagine not knowing what the deep state is.
>>97764156The Traditions literally want to turn humanity into slaves and soul batteries. The worst thing that the Technocracy is doing is making the world a little more boring as they make it safer.
>>97764180A fabrication the first Trump admin came up with to pretend that the legally created bureaucracy meant to perform the duties of state within the law was actually a "evil shadowy cabal."
>>97764170I tend to lean a bit more ancap but then you just end up with syndicate or pentex bullshit.>>97764190Depends on which faction wins the Ascension Wars. Objectively the best result is the Etherites/Virtual Adepts where every man is able to control their destiny.Verbena, Hermetics, and Choiristers winning is pretty bad. But becoming slaves to the Weaver and Wyrm pretty much is accidentally a part of the Technocrat Time Table, whoops my resonance is Entropic/Stagnant, how did that happen???? Better tighten my grasp while the noose slips around my neck. Like, theyre functionally out of whack with the metatrinity.
>>97764092That's what everyone was saying last year, when they were all talking about "vibe shift" and how all corporations will be anti-woke from now on.
>>97761845> they have gone about their divine duty in such a fundamentally flawed fashion that they have contributed to the inevitable ApocalypseI actually DO agree, but it's not really their fault. The Apocalypse was inevitable the moment the Weaver bound the Wyrm. >I wouldn't say so, as hurriedly reforming the Garou Nation and trying to undo the mistakes of the past before the Apocalypse occurs is an important part of the gameI don't really see that as "rebelling". Rebelling would be saying "tear down and destroy the Nation, give it all to the opposite(the Wyrm)". Reconciling the Fera back together isn't limited to the Garou either, each Changing Breed fucked up immensely in their past, or is currently doing so. If once considers, the War of Rage and War of Tears were both due to the machinations of the Wyrm, the Nation isn't nearly as guilty as many people like to say.I think healing the Nation would only make it stronger, which is the opposite of rebelling against it.
>>97764274Impergium's entire existence even ignoring objectively the biggest fuckups in the setting is still makes the Garou guilty as shit as now Mankind finds itself unable to trust its Gaian given custodians lmao.
>>97764156To be fair, Technocrats are trying to win the ascension war. Shit like some random getting possesed by an EDE is seen as a minor sacrafice in order to secure the future. The real problem is the Syndicate running interference for Pentex since they bring in a lot of money that goes to funding a lot of union projects (and admitting to a fuckup that big would shit the balance of power towards the NWO). A lot of whacky shit like It X's machine god and Pentex could have been dealt with if Control stepped in, they didn't (probably some part of 3466D chess) and without Control 2.0 these issues are going to get worse.
>>97764346Do you also believe in white guilt and that white people need to pay reparations for the "sins" of their ancestors?
>>97764370I know but its entirely hypocritical to shill the Technocracy as "BASED FREAKSHIT DESTROYERS" while neglecting that Vampires, Werewolves and Mages were insanely uncommon almost freak occurrences while banes are insanely common thanks to the influence of the Technocracy and run the risk of infecting every normal person who's exposed to them at their lowest along with drawing crosshairs on regular normal people who now reek of Wyrmtaint so some Garou can maul them to death. This is also neglecting that control can possibly be>the weaver>technephandi >a bunch of technocrats stuck in permaquiet thanks to being driven insane by Clarityor god fucking knows what else.
>>97764448Are you retarded? There's a difference between slavery and mass exploitation of populaces as that is common in warfare and literally murder raping your way across the world to the point humanity has a fucking subconscious trauma response to your very existence because you tardraged indulged yourself while needing humans to reproduce as a species. This is like comparing stubbing your toe to the atomic fucking bomb you retard.
>>97764346I agree, actually. The Impergium WAS a massive failure on the part of the Garou, and part of their tragic story. I see the whole tapestry of the Garou as fundamentally tragic heroes, in the antiquarian sense. But at the same time, all the Garou's efforts to save Gaia are doomed to fail, because of the fundamental cosmic calamity ongoing since the Insect Wars, who knows how many hundreds of millions of years ago.The question to me isn't how badly they've failed in the past. But instead, if they can make peace with their brothers and face the Apocalypse with their honor intact.
>>97764448Garou literally are not White, or any other human race, because the Garou are not human. Not even Homid Garou are humans. Kinfolk are only related to humans, but aren't human.
>>97764500Nice dubs, fair enough, that's kinda the story of the garou in general though "good intentions, insanely botched execution". If you wanna compare them to the mythic heroes of old, they are much like Achilles. He has great strength but puts it to the wrong uses due to his grief and anger.
Is anon right?Are the mages who throw fireballs doing it wrong?>>97764555
>>97764454>I know but its entirely hypocritical to shill the Technocracy as "BASED FREAKSHIT DESTROYERS"Shitposts are not to be taken seriously, even if there's a grain of truth to what they shitpost about. Sure, you have your blacksuits putting mages in room 101 ir Iteration X sending in T800s to deal with anything that requires more effort. TMD is a big part of their plan but it's not the most important one. If it were up to them, they'd rather have everything that's not human quietly go extinct. Let's be honest, a lot of people like the technocracy because of the 5th precept, I can't see a lot of people wanting to roleplay as some Invory Tower master of bureaucracy. >drawing crosshairs on regular normal people who now reek of Wyrmtaint so some Garou can maul them to deathThat's mostly on the mutts if I'm being honest. They should be able to deduce that a Joe Shmo who works in a slaughterhouse might not be the Wyrm's top guy. The fact that we never got a confirmation as to what Control really was makes arguing about their actions a bit more difficult. Were they ancient masters from the order of reason and really advanced technocrats? Nephanid? A hivemind of all technocrats? I get that the shadowy bureaucracy gives the storyteller a lot of freedom but it makes trying to understand the leadership's true goal kinda hard. IMO each splat should be it's own thing, werewolves / vampires / whatever might run into a mage but the war for reality should probably be skipped in favour of their own thing. A mage might study / exterminate other splats in search of his ascension or whatever. Trying to mix all splats always resulted in a really big mess.
>>97764620I see them more like Heracles, specifically his bouts of madness that caused him to make horrible mistakes and kill those who mattered to him.But ultimately, just about any hero from Antiquity would work. I think that a lot of readers today forget that being flawed or even making immense mistakes doesn't mean you're evil.
>>97764714>Heracles and his bouts of madnessTo be fair, Heracles wasn't exactly born with them. It is similar though yeah, I do like it. The problem more so is that it's kind of played up and their overall heroism is downplayed because Garou are really more like antiheroes. An antihero that's edgy and has a heart of gold is pretty cool and compelling (Punisher) but one that's basically cursed to be an abusive monster is the type that you root for them to seek redemption while dying a horrible death instead. This is pretty much almost entirely the intent of the Garou, they aren't meant to be furry Punisher and their entire doom cult and warrior's death worship kind of lends itself to this to a much less subtle degree than other splats encouraging you towards certain stories or themes
>>97764629I mean yeah, you can just cast fireball but disguise it as a Molotov and objectively it will be less damaging in a paradox sense. Sometimes you need to go all out if you wanna survive tho. People love talking about how they've planned it all out till it gets FUBARed and thats the real joy.>>97764639Actually reading WOD books raw, cross splat is intended to be the default. I get everyone has their own interpretation of WOD which is part of the joy of the setting but like by default these settings are intended to be part of the same universe and reference each other constantly in their books. Mage and Werewolf especially are hard to separate thanks to the Metaphysical Trinity. Plus the Tremere's entire backstory is from a rouge hermetic house. Like you can ignore it and do your own things but as RAW, these settings are supposed to exist side by side. Whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is up for debate. Like for me, I ignore humanity rulings and just go for vibes based shit when penalizing people in vampire because like stealing something that's objectively going to save lives and killing even in self defense is stupid as fuck and no sane storyteller would rule it that way.
>>97764756>cursed to be an abusive monsterThat's vampires, not Garou. I say the Garou are more like doom-driven warriors, and what caused them to fail time and time again was their root mistake of falling for the Wyrm's tricks that caused the War of Rage. After that, nothing was left to control them and blunt their sharpness. One weakness, and their tragedy unfolded from there.
>>97764499You just described white people. Stay woke.
>>97764866I forgot white people are objectively yakubian devils, how could I forget!
>>97764886Yakub, the archmage of Mind, Life, Prime and Forces
>>97764629>>97764789Kind of, to be frank though the>inb4 people post that cringe scene from Fate/ZeroThat scene is honestly really based and IS what one should do when they're trying to breach a mage's lair without carrying too much about the repercussions or some retarded rules the same way Vampires do. It's also an example of Kayneth picking extremely poorly where to base his workshop because he simply MUST have had a penthouse at the hotel instead of Kerry's superior mansion property on the outskirts of town or the Einzbern castle. If anything, Kiritsugu planned that out much better and Kayneth simply could not adapt well to the situation going FUBAR
>>97764892Honestly, his existence is a tragedy as great as Caine's, there is no way I could include this guy without my players thinking I'm crazy lmao.
>>97764789>Actually reading WOD books raw, cross splat is intended to be the defaultThat's true but the way they went about stitching all splats together is really messy if you ask me. Werewolf and mage can (maybe) work together, thrown vampire and demon into it and you get...something. Then there's wrait, changeling and hunter. I like the idea but I wish they thought about it all the way back when they relseased vtm.
>>97764230>Objectively the best result is the Etherites/Virtual Adepts where every man is able to control their destiny.A modern iteration on Adepts wouldn't really be good for humanity, it'd be pretty much discord/reddit mods lording over virtual fiefdoms.
>>97764789Not really side by side, more like on top of each other, based on the game that you're playing. Sure, the Hermetic Order might exist in your Vampire the Masquerade game, but that doesn't mean that the Technocracy is anywhere near as monolithic in that game as it is in Mage the Ascension. Similarly, the Wyrm is just a particularly powerful spirit in Mage the Ascension, rather than the embodiment of death and destruction destined to destroy the world that it is in Werewolf the Apocalypse.One always has to be on top, with the rest demoted and placed beneath it. You can't have the Ascension War, Gehenna and the Apocalypse playing out simultaneously without the game getting extremely messy, and White Wolf acknowledges this. There's a reason why there's no unified ToJ scenario.
>>97764929>there is no way I could include this guy without my players thinking I'm crazy lmao.Zoomers might actually be more open to based concepts but they're zoomers and the select few that know about WoD won't play it.
>>97764942well yes but these were before the dark times of the internet and Syndicate getting their grubby hands on the Net. The virtual adept ideal tho is basically ever man transfers themself into cyberspace to create reality 2.0 thats objectively a paradise for themselves that they can change at a whim or comingle with others.
>>97764959Pretty much my problem as a zoomer somewhat interested in the IP, I'd honestly be down to play anything (except WtA but not because I dislike it) of the IPs but corralling my group into actually getting ready to play it is a lot more work than everyone just playing DnD again
>>97764892Here's a secret, Yakub was behind the order of reason. Think about it, a mage scientist so powerful that he could create the perfect people in a world that's openly hostile to them and have them come out on top. Yakub is out there, exploring the deepest corners of the universe in order to bring humanity Tricknology 2.
>>97764931That's because objectively the cosmology is weird as hell. >mage/werewolfSpirits of the Umbra, gods, and the Triat all exist and functionVampire/Demon/Hunter to an extentGOD IS REAL, CAINE FROM THE BIBLE IS REAL, Christianity is objectively correct Changeling is kinda an odd ball and really isnt concerned with the grander picture only the details and Wraith is setting agnostic.>>97764959>>97764990god that gives me fucking nightmare flashbacks to when I spent seven months trying to get my players to do World of Darkness, had everyone drop out and nearly went mental after so much bullshit went into it. Meanwhile I manage to get people to agree to play DnD with minimal effort and run it for a few sessions really easily. Life's a bitch.
>>97764789>Actually reading WOD books raw, cross splat is intended to be the default.The writers routinely said the opposite. Granted, they really liked going back and forth on making crossover books then ignoring crossover, but the closest thing to an official stance they ever had was that cross splat was entirely optional. This is why everyone bitches about it regardless of what side of the argument they're on. You want cross-splat? Too bad, it sucks and the rules and lore supporting you actually running a functional game of it are questionable at best. You don't want cross-splat? Too bad, it's called WORLD of Darkness and every time you try to run something canon you'll find a random ass cross-splat injected into the game with little thought or care. It's an ambiguous middle ground that pleases nobody.
>>97764958Well yeah, that's because your head would explode if you had to have syndicate and pentex share the dinner table for corproate malfeasance while also having to deal with some ventrue prick showing up and ghouling your homegirl kinfolk while a hollow one shlicks off to the idea of getting bit. Cross splat is messy but it is SOULFUL and you can't argue with that. >>97765029I'm just reading the rules and lore how they are, shit mentions cross splat every now and then so you'll get mentions of Vampires, Werewolves, Ghosts, Ghouls and so on. Its less so in revised but if you read 2nd edition they really pushed cross splat. Revised seemed to pull back but the cross splat influence is clearly still there. ngl, I think mage has the most feature complete ruleset for cross splat shit given the others are a little jank. "just use disciplines/gifts to simulate what abilities other splats will have". It does a feel a little bizarre in execution though, you are right lmao. I think in general white wolf's mindset of "the entire setting can be ignored or followed as you please is based, here's our ocs fucking kill them if you dont like them or replace them with your own IDGAF"
>>97765071D-Diednebrothers....
>>97765021What really strikes me about demon and vampire is that they're incredibly incompatible with werewolf primarily in terms of the cosmology of the setting electing to ignore the whole infinity werewolves innawoods
>>97765113in vampire lupines pretty much are tribal assholes, they do vaguely reference the gaian struggle and the issues with the wyrm but like for the most part they just exist to elbow drop vampires hiding out in the woods or serve as a particularly beefy statblock to kill.
>>97765071>Cross splat is messy but it is SOULFUL and you can't argue with that.Only if you actually like what's being mixed together. I'm usually a sucker for "old SOVL" stuff but I've never gotten the appeal of most oWoD splats. >shit mentions cross splat every now and then so you'll get mentions of Vampires, Werewolves, Ghosts, Ghouls and so on.This may sound weird but follow me. Mentioning another supernatural being isn't necessarily cross-splat the way you think of it, in an "everything is canon as per their official game lines" kind of way. Vampire, being the first, mentioned and even included werewolves well before Werewolf got its own game. It's like this for the Tremere too, they were originally referencing an entirely different RPG, that being Ars Magica. There was even a very early period where they hadn't decided on the splat "mold" for things and put out the first Hunter and Mummy book more like supplements. It's why Hunters and Hunters (Reckoning) are so different. Even after that you have other... less than clean delineations such as KotE being a separate splat functionally but also forcibly joined to VtM, in my opinion at the expense of both. Essentially what I'm driving at is that everyone likes the IDEA of a world full of different supernatural creatures and occult secrets. Very few like what that actually would look like in oWoD "canon".
>>97765113Probably because they were never written to actually intersect.
>>97765113>>97765131>>97765216It's because Lupines were famously used as a railroading device to keep vampire players in the city. Because white wolf getting too committed to an iffy idea was there from the word go. Later on, when Werewolf got to be its own gameline, they felt like they needed to keep the "fucking hates vampires" aspect to not explicitly contradict Vampire, but then went off in an entirely different direction with the rest of the game. Pretty typical of oWoD's unplanned evolution.
>>97765137nah, i'm aware cross splat is a mess and is barely coherent if at all, I just find something charming trying to make a ramshackle collective universe out of it. Like there's something sterile in say an MCU movie that expects you to watch all of them to understand the plot but in the others its more a wink and a nod to those in the know about this fantastic "world of darkness". I think WOD should just objectively be whatever the players and storyteller wanna do, its meant to be a sandbox, it can be a noir, a dark romance, a horror of the external world and the monster writhing within, it can be a coming of age story about finding your place in the world, it can be an action romp conspiracy thriller. That's what I love about it, anything can happen, it can be dark or even inspiring with the blackest shadows only being cast by the brightest lights. I'm extremely sappy for this setting, it just sucks I have to teeth pull to get people to play new things lmao.>>97765248It works even if ecoterrorist werewolf warrior was kinda a weird choice but it makes sense why given frenzy mechanics always suck "AAAAAUGH IM OUT OF CONTROL AND MUST MURDER RRAAAH". It sucks they couldn't get the classic concept of werewolf to function though I think they could at least use rage mechanics to sorta make it happen?
>>97765071>Well yeah, that's because your head would explode if you had to have syndicate and pentex share the dinner table for corproate malfeasanceImagine First Teams armed with Hypertech and supported by whatever weapons the union has. Apocalypse speedrun / one less breed of reality deviants.
>>97765021>Actually playingImagine that haha
>>97765363I think the most overpowered gun in the setting I can recall over the top of my head is this one but I remember somebody saying if they used it IRL it would like explode in your fucking hands. I'll post the stats too.>>97765401Hahahahaha yeaaaahhhh
>>97765422>>97765363like goddamn
>>97765216>>97765248I feel as if Demon was definitely written to intersect between all of the funny shit going on but the writers never got around to it before someone was like>uh oh stinky we go press nuclear button nowAnd effectively cratered the entire metaplot and whatever reason there was for writing about stuff.
>>97765422>>97765433
>>97765451>Euro hands wrote this
>>97765422That's weavertech right? Guess you could always argue that it works thanks to literal spirit magic.
>>97765433>>97765422>>97765451The AS-115 was written by someone without an understanding of the rules, who doesn't get that they're supposed to be an abstraction.Going by the same edition of the same game, a standard assault rifle has a rate of 3 and a clip of 42.It's just... what's the fucking point of going that high with that rate?In order to take maximum advantage of it, a character would need to split their dice pool between twenty-five actions, which would require a dice pool of at least twenty-five dice in the first place, with most of these actions having a difficulty of 10. This is basically impossible.The best I can think of is a character with a dice pool of eight contributing a single die to eight separate three-round bursts in a single turn, each of which will involve rolling four dice, one with a difficulty of at least 8, one with a difficulty of at least 9, and the rest with a difficulty of 10, for a maximum of eight separate instances of eight (plus one for each success on that roll) damage dice.But that semi-realistic use-case still doesn't even use close to half of the rate of twenty-five. It's beyond ridiculous.
>>97765451>>97765433>Super future gun is a faster fire Ak47Same as it ever was
>>97765422>rare civilian semi-auto modelsFor the low, low price of 50k per unit! - Sheckler and Cock
>>97765842You don't get it.A rate that high doesn't just mean that it has a higher rate of fire.This rifle magically allows the shooter to potentially fire it semi-automatically at the same rpm as it would have if they just emptied its clip full-auto.Using the AS-115, a theoretically skilled enough marksman could individually aim and fire at twenty-five separate targets in the same amount of time that it would take a lesser marksman to spray and pray the whole clip away.
>>97765957I understand but still find it funny the super gun uses standard AK rounds
>>977660417.62 NATO actually.
>>97765813>In order to take maximum advantage of it, a character would need to split their dice pool between twenty-five actions, which would require a dice pool of at least twenty-five dice in the first place, with most of these actions having a difficulty of 10. This is basically impossible.Just get a Garou with Dexterity 5 and Firearms 4, then have them spend 2 Rage points on extra actions. That gives you 3 pools of 9 dice, or 27 dice to divide across those 25 shots. Shove in a Bottomless Magazine and you can make those shots 3-round bursts and do this every turn, if you've got the Rage points to spend. Add on some of the Glass Walker gun Gifts and you've got a long-ranged blender werewolf.
>>97761517Gaia is a fucking moron who is simultaneously completely powerless and also arguably most responsible for setting up the perpetually degrading machine of existence. Next time you sister/ lover/ reflection decides to hook up all your supersoliders to an endless, unstoppable supply of supernatural ultra-PCP tell her her ideas are dogshit and you don't mess with other peoples cooking.If the world is completely broken because the entries responsible for how things came to be and how they exist metaphysically are completely broken, then the only forward response is to reject them entirely and seek something new. Not just keep doing what has not been working since the literal start of time.
>>97765021>Christianity is objectively correctUnless you're racially (not even ethnically, it's regardless of culture) Chinese, in which case Buddhism is objectively correct.
>>97766554yes, yes, KotE should've been a separate splat entirely, we know.
Do you think we will ever see a new project or IP that can fill the same space as WoD? I don't see paradox's custodianship of the setting as revitalising the game. Really feels like WoD was lightening in a bottle and we won't see it's kind again. Just the echos.
>>97766705Not anything that's going to be successful. on that scale Onyx Path are trying their Not-WoD but they're still limited by being two dudes and a tranny publishing PDF-only stuff. No other big companies care, and the big 'supernatural media' push in the mainstream is gone. They could've gotten something back in the days of big supernatural action horror movies, but not now. Assuming anyone cared becaused Onyx Path.
>>97765401This but unironically
>>97761499Can only speak about VtM here, but the problem is two-part. First, the Anarchs are just boring. Sorry, it's the truth. Both the Camarilla and Sabbat have much more to work with for both an ST and a player. The Anarchs are defined entirely by what they oppose, and as a result have little positive policies of their own. Not to mention, only a fool thinks one has to be a hardliner or true believer to be within the Camarilla or Sabbat. The second problem with being le punk rebel in VtM is it rings painfully hollow. Unless you're some high humanity saint, your existence as a vampire is "oppressive". You need to take blood from others to live. Your blood enslaves those who drink it. Several of your powers are all about removing agency from others. So when a young vampire talks about freedom and rights, it seems incredibly hypocritical when they hunt for blood, have ghouls, use dominate... They don't have a problem with the principle; they have a problem with not holding the whip hand. The other sects have their own hypocrisies, but as previously mentioned, they're deeper, with more going on. More importantly, those hypocrisies are less immediately apparent and foundational.
You see, the final chapter of Chainsaw Man Part II was actually a metaphor for Changeling: The Dreaming’s entire ethos.
>>97766554
>>97766837You know what, thank you for actually engaging with this in good faith. You are right about the power dynamics but you are supposed to at least try to maintain your humanity, find ghouling dubious and not drain people dry until they die. You're supposed to be a bad person if you immediately just start carelessly treating the human beings you once were as disposable, that's what the humanity system is all about after all. As for dominate, that's mainly meant to be used by "oppressor" clans so to speak with lots of control over the setting. Think about it >Ventrue>Tremere>GiovanniThe only odd one out is Malkavian.Same for Presence>Ventrue>Setites>Toreador Brujah being the odd man out though you can point to them being rabble rousing assholes.To point this out I don't necessarily even mean siding with the Anarchs, I mean opposing the people who are beating you down, if the Prince treats you like shit, slip him a package of C4 or find out where he sleeps and toss a Molotov surprise when you have the power to. If an elder abuses his strength against you make sure that when the tables turn he knows that he should have been your friend.The anarchs themselves suck dick because they're essentially just want the Camarilla with them at the head but you don't gotta take that shit, you don't gotta take shit from anybody if you can help it. If the man fucks you, fuck him back.
>>97767360Lmao i forgot to add Lasombra to the Dominate list, though its funny almost every "we're the man clan" has dominate except for Tzimsice, though I'm pretty sure Old Clan Tzimsice has Dominate too.
So I've been into VtM for a while now and I'm just now trying to dip into the old 1e clan books and uhWhat the fuck is up with fairyland? Why was that plot point seemingly just dropped entirely? I get that the shift out of the first edition into second and revised lead to a lot of changes obviously but malkavians being in direct communication with the fae seemed like a pretty big deal considering the vast majority of vampires don't even know that that they exist. That would be like if powerful enough ventrue just saw gnomes or some shit every once and a while and it just wasn't worth mentioning
>>97760310>a Galaxy of DarknessHow would that work?>Vampires can't be even near a window in spaceship or they'll die>Werewolves are too retarded to be in space>Mages can't use their magic surrounded by all the technology or else the ship might just explode
>>97767528Specifically its Earth's sun that causes vampires pain as far as I'm aware. If you like move a vampire into the deep umbra and such, he'll be chill, same with like sending him to a non earth reality.
>>97767528You're thinking of it wrong.>vampires love space because they don't burn from Sol and they don't care about breathing or the cold>werewolves are too retarded to die from space>mages handwave technology with magic, get on the magic school bus you nerd
>>97767514>What the fuck is up with fairyland? Why was that plot point seemingly just dropped entirely?Pre-CtD Atavism. There's a "fairy kidnapper" statblock in some pre CtD storyteller guide that honestly reads more like a halfway point between CtD and a CtL privateer. I can't know for certain, but they were probably workshopping a lot of different ideas for the fae game, and someone got this notion of connecting Malkavians and their prophetic madness to the fae since similar themes of dreams, questionable reality, madness, and wonder were coming up. Then it was quietly abandoned when moods changed, CtD went in its own direction from this prototype "fairyland", and a stronger delineation between splats was popular. Not to mention someone invented the Kiasyd at some point. I will die on the hill people weren't talking that much at old WW, just rushing to get books out. Granted, Clanbook Malkavian is famously out there. It has a Methuselah that eats concepts.
>>97767360>You know what, thank you for actually engaging with this in good faith.No problem. I try. On the topic of humanity, I actually agree. I like Humanity as an idea. Its mechanical execution leaves a lot to be desired IMO, but honestly, I think the Paths of Enlightenment are too much of a concession created because of the in-play shortcomings of RAW Humanity. I think there's even a good story that could be told with some poor Sabbat inductee trying to maintain their Humanity in the face of insurmountable odds. I would also agree that an attitude of striking back if someone wrongs you is good. Now with the vast power differences between neonates and elders... that may not always be viable, at least not without the backing of a different elder. Playing that game can be genuinely difficult if the ST isn't handing you wins, but my understanding of the typical Camarilla game is not one of just taking your lumps from oldfags. It's playing the game, trying to win and not lose your humanity while you do it. But I don't really agree with the punk attitude itself. In fact, my main VTM experience was playing as a Ventrue, fully intending to climb the power ladder. In that game, she was constantly struggling to hold on to her humanity. She also did kill a Prince that wronged her, and boy did that require a lot of scheming. She was also a dyed in the wool elitist from a very old money family. Her own clan's elders loved her. But she doggedly clings to her humanity through acts of genuine noblesse oblige, usually directed at Kine to boot. Remains one of my favorite characters I ever played.
>>97765805it's build by normies inspired by weaver spirits but not weaver tech itself as it has no gnosis scoremeaning you can still enchant it with magic or bind a spirit to it
>>97759577He was taken into the Hedge, duh.
>>97767781Oh, the old school lord of the night style Ventrue. I usually call em Knight Ventrue but in this case it would be Dame Ventrue. I do see what you mean in playing the classic Cammie style game. But I guess I'm trying to more say, I find /wodg/ underestimates how the game's meant to like buck against the authorities it portrays whether it be an internal reformist or a scrappy punk. Though in general part of the fun of World of Darkness is the flexibility of it in representing the character concepts of the genre presented for them so not to be restrictive in the stories it tells. V5 tries to force you to be "punk" so it comes across lame and insincere in comparison. Basically I find it an impressive failure on the part of Paradox that they were unable to introduce Zoomers and Gen Alpha to a series all about people who are being crushed under the wheels of an uncaring system and being told they aren't wanted or needed and nobody gives a damn whether they live or die in a hostile world just for being born and not finding it particularly resonant thematically about a narrative striking back and finding your way and place in this world. But you know GOTTA HAVE MY D&D. >>97767876jfc, that's horrible, it already can nuke supernaturals in a three round burst why the fuck would you let them enchant that shit with like a lower accuracy threshold or having the bullets deal aggravated damage or some shit you might as well just give them an I Win button for all conflict.
>>97764448You act as though the exploitation ended. It only changed form. So, yes, reparations are the minimum expectation for enforced generational poverty.
>>97767900>jfc, that's horriblenot sure what to tell you. the book of the weaver is just -that- out there. it even features a endless magazine for this as a fetish and mentions that the company that makes them is already creating silverbullets for it is starting to sell it to first teamssame book also had cold war mechs that had no gnosim score which must be confusing for iteration X because their mechs in the same edition been vulgar magic and most of them are smaller than this shitso no wonder that we never got a second weaver book
>>97767934being fair, everyone is economically fucked these days. Zoomers can't even get jobs at McDonalds or Walmart let alone real jobs. Truly this is a Pentex/Syndicate moment.
>>97767528>>a Galaxy of Darkness>How would that work?Given that mummies in Mummy: the Curse aren't bound by linear time, this could easily work for them.
>>97767135>The only person who's life got worse was Denji'sIt was pretty unfortunate
>>97767528Well first that pic is from a nWoD/CofD book. Secondly, the book actually talks about ways to run a true sci-fi WoD game. What if not every star burns vampires, only the Sun or the star of their homeworld, or world they were embraced on? Even if all stars burn them, these are Requiem vampires, who have a less strict set of rules for sunlight damage. You could have vampire raiders at the edges of solar systems, or entire empires carved into the void. I vaguely recall a suggestion about vampires in general and Ventrue in particular running masqueradeless stellar empires. I also recall another proposal about using The Hedge from CtL as the basis for FTL travel.
>>97767937>same book also had cold war mechs that had no gnosim score which must be confusing for iteration X because their mechs in the same edition been vulgar magicAnother example of splats not being meant to share a single universe.
>>97768288sadly not they mention the syndicate having payed for it and the device background that allows you to buy all this weaver tech (and adjacent) tells you to look up technocrat wonders as other things you can buy with it the book is just kinda shit in general and is throwing crossover material around while only having a surface level understanding (if that) of both the lore and rules
>>97768304That makes it even worse if you think about it. The Syndicate is notorious for controling what is or isn't allowed to enter the consensus. If we assume they deemed it ok for the masses then Iteration X is run by idiots who can't make base their mechs off mundane designs and modify them with subtle hypertech. The more realistic Syndicate approach is simply cutting and funding to this very vulgar project that some iterator is trying to sneak by disimbursment.
>>97768336they also got deployed in siberia and the us army still has a entire warehouse of them although they have no idea what they been designed to fight against (fera) so they mostly just gather dustlike to be entirely fair it's the Special Projects Division side of the Syndicate and Pentex who are known to do some shady shit in the background who paid for them (but why is a pentex project in the weaver book?), but that does not make Iteration X look any less stupid because these exosuits are not magical, they don't need quint or gnosis and everyone from any splat can get into them meaning they are fully accepted by the consensus
Are there any games you know of that are to World of Darkness, what fantasy heartbreakers are to Dungeons and Dragons?
>>97768522>>97768336Are there any redeemable parts of the book? It can't be that bad, right?
>>97768557All urban fantasy games that are not WoD. A recent example being Curseborne.
>>97768730Do we actually have a list of urban fantasy games. I feel that it's a lot shorter than people assume I only know of a few myself.CursebornFirebornDresden FilesShadowrunEsoterroristsKultMonster of the WeekDon't Rest Your Head.I'm really struggling to think of any that people actually play and didn't come out 20 years ago.
>>97768808Curseborne is an offshoot of Chronicles so does it even count as a fantasy heartbreak rather than the urban fantasy of OSR?
>>97768808That's because the more recent stuff is mostly consistent of Blades in the Dark variants and other stuff that doesn't have a solid niche.
>>97768808In no particular order, care for when they came out, or for how many people play them now or then:MonsterheartsScionLiminalUrban ShadowsCJ Carella's WitchCraftCity of MistNobilisUnknown Armies>>97769429Fantasy heartbreakers are virtually always "D&D, but...", so they use d20 and the like, making Curseborne the #1 example of what >>97768557 asked in my opinion, while most urban fantasy games are "we have this generic system and we are publishing an urban fantasy game for it."It depends on which definition do we want for urban fantasy hearbreaker, but it seems to me the setting comes first, given WoD advertises itself as storytelling games, give you plenty of myths and histories, and everyone wanted to publish "World of Darkness, but...".
>>97768254>I also recall another proposal about using The Hedge from CtL as the basis for FTL travelIt gets worse. As per 2e space is full of Goblins and there are changelings on the moon, doing god knows what. Funnily, the fae don't accept vacuum as non-breathable and don't need spacesuits.And unlike the weird spirits of WtF the Hobgoblins of CtL are free to be interacted with by anyone. An upstart ventrue could easily dominate a crew of Hobs that tried to abduct him and carve out a small space empire across the dead rings of saturn and time-displaced space stations of unknown design.Or do a funny and throw moon rocks at woofs.
>>97768584The lore for Weaver-aligned spirits is pretty good, as is the stuff about drones. The Weaver-centric interpretation of history is great too, as is the exploration of her psyche. It's a fantastic book for a character study of the Weaver and how she operates and what her goals are, but it's poorly written when it comes to rules and other splats. Oh, this is also the book that introduced DNA and they make for a pretty cool antagonist, if Pentex is too over the top for you.
>>97767360>"oppressor" clans
>>97770287
>>97770271Russian HP Lovecraft please understand, its either that or the clunky "controller" clans. They make up major political bodies in the cammies.
>>97769715The creator of Deviants has a Deviant sci-fi setting in his vault book that was going to be an actual book before NWoD/CoD got canned.
>>97768584Drones are cool even if they're underutilized. You'd think they'd be more of them with how powerful the weaver. You get to see how the weaver thinks and learn that humans are her favorite adopted species. If you're into hunters you also get DNA. Basically what >>97770018said.
>>97770371
>>97770404>humans are her favorite adopted speciesHow sweet!There is a drone in Book of Hungry Names, btw
>>97770404>You'd think they'd be more of them with how powerful the weaver.The book actually answers this. The Weaver doesn't need to flood the world with drones, because humans do her bidding without much need for supernatural intervention. Drones are only deployed when the Weaver can't risk human error or when human operations are being disrupted in such a way that supernatural assistance is required to rectify the issue. The Weaver is all about efficiency, so drones only get sent out when it's necessary.This is why I think it's unlikely that Threat Null are all drones, as the Weaver would keep them in reserve rather than allowing them to run rampant and do their own thing, especially since the Technocracy advance her agenda in the first place. It's more likely that Threat Null are just crazed Technephandi, in my opinion.
>>97770553>This is why I think it's unlikely that Threat Null are all drones, as the Weaver would keep them in reserve rather than allowing them to run rampant and do their own thing, especially since the Technocracy advance her agenda in the first placeIt also wouldn't make sense for Agents to try and sabotage technocracy's efforts. The only Threat Null faction that might be weaver-alligend would be the Autopolitans since they server the Computer (if the computer is a weaver incarna). IMO they're either nephandi or they went insane.
>>97769500Fair enough even if curseborne garners enough to be continued, it will always be a third or second fiddle like Pathfinder.
>>97770404Drones are some of those creatures that rarely need to be there when all the Weaver really needs most of the time is to nudge something by 2 degrees and the the fireworks fly.
>>97758959Tony DiTerlizzi is one of the greatest artists of our age.
>>97770475>How sweet!They even got 3 gifts! All for the low price of serving a very overworked space spider spirit.
>>97767900>I find /wodg/ underestimates how the game's meant to like buck against the authorities it portraysWell, I can ultimately only speak for myself. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's some general contrarianism or similar failures in other game lines of making the designated anti-authority faction less compelling than the authority. >Basically I find it an impressive failure on the part of Paradox that they were unable to introduce Zoomers and Gen Alpha toAs easy as it is to just blame this on Paradox sucking (which is absolutely true on this front), I actually don't think selling WoD to younger players is as much of a slam dunk as it might seem. I say this as an older zoomer bloodlinesbaby myself. Essentially the problem is that you can't create a real counterculture if you have no cultural consensus in the first place. And that's been the growing problem for the last decade or so. Without getting into the details or my own opinion on the matter, you can't create a cohesive game without a cohesive sense of where things are going, and where they have gone. Your vision for what a 2020s WoD should look like might be perfect to you and your cohort, but it'll piss off many others. In addition, while conquering fictional versions of your IRL problems can be very cathartic, if it's too similar, it doesn't serve as healthy escapism. It just serves as a reminder. It's not enjoyable to most people. That could be the big problem.
>>97770903Thanks, space spider!
>>97768056Eh he gets to live with his found family without every single power in the world wanting to kill him or use him for their purposes. He is free of the trauma of the last two parts and retains a sense of maturity to atleast know when to let go of things.He gets a clean slate to which to make his life better in this new world.Also he and power are probably fuck buddies now so atleast he is not a virgin anymore
>>97771296>living with his found family (actually just Power) in a dangerous job while still missing an eye, a ball, some fingers>Aki still gone because Fujimoto hated himI suppose his life got marginally better in terms of no longer having everyone be out to abuse him or something, but I expect there will be a part 3 at some point. Fujimoto's endings are usually a lot more bombastic and this felt more like the part 1 ending
>>97770475The drone was interesting, you'd have thought it was going to more present the same way other optional pack members show up in the later arcs but then what you get instead is he barely does anything particularly special and just an heroes when you offer him a place to help out. Such is the way of the Weaver and shit, do job expire
>>97770867Drones kind of are just meant to work in the background, I suppose it's a telling sign if they're working openly that the plot is fucked up and shit is about to go down
>>97768557Less so in its modern incarnation, but definitely in the original.
would a camarilla vampire/prince admit that vampires are evil or they wouldn't even think in these terms? or "vampires are the bad guys" is part of the metaplot but not in game lore?
Question for the VtM to VtR 2e conversion anon if he happens to read this, did you include the "5th dot costs double" rule from VTR 1e due to personal preference, oversight or some other factor?
I ran my players through a short HtV 2e adventure with pregen characters, and now they’re excited to make their own characters. Which books are good to compile merits from with minimal to no conversion necessary?
>>97771934Oh shit, that stayed in? What page? That should be an optional rule. >>97771937One Anon made a full CofD merit compendium. Might be able to find it later.
>>97771921Literally depends on who the vampire is and what their perception of evil is.They are people, they still have their own individual views and opinions.
>>97772041>>97771934If it's the one on Page 8, yeah that was an atavism from an earlier draft. Note how it says "Again, remember" but there's no previous mention of double exp costs, nor mention of it in the exp cost section. The first and second sections were made prior to the rest of it by some time so a few atavisms snuck by. I wish I had a second pair of eyes to put on this thing before I published it, but uh thanks, good catch. Didn't spot any other mentions of that rule surviving. Will update the document soon if that's the only instance.
>>97772153Yes, that's the only example. Elder Disiciplines mentions dots beyond 5th costs double (6 in-clan, 8 out) but I imagine that's intentional since it gives you "free" devotions as well.One of my friends decided to revive his setting for a campaign using your conversion, he was pretty sick of V20 with all the difficulty-reducing bullshit (One player attempted to use Berserk's "-3 difficulty on all combat rolls" on a damage roll), so we'll be experimenting with your work. Might bother you if we spot anythign sus on the book again, sorry.
>>97772219Oh no, that's perfectly fine. I'd rather be bothered about little errors than have them fester. The Elder Disciplines thing is intentional. You're overpaying for a devotion but in exchange get a dice pool bonus to all powers with that discipline, arguably exp inefficient, but it gets you something you can't get otherwise, and it gives elders a good exp sink that lets them throw their weight around. I'm looking forward to hearing about that game actually, I hope it goes well! https://mega.nz/folder/LhYTUD7b#cRDFTcMXSB_2TjD7eJoE5QReposting the link for anyone who doesn't have it. If someone wants to add it to the OP they're welcome to, and same for adding the PDF to a "homebrew" section in the OP if we wanna do that.
>>97772248Seems fair enough.
>>97771695>Aki still gone because Fujimoto hated himThey did mention going to eat chinese and that they'll beg their seniors to pay.Aki and Himeno are prob still around.Actually mostly everyone that mattered from part 1 (minus reze) should be alive.
>Kindred has Celerity as out of clan Discipline
>>97772724>KindredA what? You mean Cainite?
>>97772724Is normal.
>>97772826obfuscate.webm
>>97773062
>>97771937Core book and Hurt Locker are great options for Vigil 2E players. Every merit in the game can be found here, though it's only a quick summary rather than the full text: https://codexofdarkness.com/wiki/Category:MeritsIf you want a mega list of specific weapons, you can use what's in 1E's Armory and Armory: Reloaded, then convert them with this:>For converting weapons, reduce the damage by 1, change to to lethal damage if it did bashing, use the weapon's Size as it's Strength requirement, and estimate an appropriate Initiative penalty based on its other traits.
Anon's I've really done it this time. I recently made a character who's meant to be a very vengeful, angry person, but when the time has come where I'm supposed to portray that, I have an extremely difficult time figuring out a response. I know that I'm supposed to respond to provocations and enemies in an aggressive way, but my immediate reaction is always to just ignore the slight. Just nothing comes to my mind that actually flows with what I’m trying to do. Like I don't want to end up being "that guy", I want to play an actually compelling character, but fuck me sideways I'm just not performing like I should.
>>97768808Vampire: Undeath is about as 'fantasy heartbreaker' as you can get for it.
>>97773394Use finesse, not brute force. Have your character not react to the slight but remember it, bottle up the rage, and unleash it most explosively when the time comes. Make the signs your character is containing that rage until the day of retribution subtle but there, like a twitching eye or a curling lip, foreshadowing of the violent revenge to follow when the offender least expects it.
>>97768808You missed the game that inspired WoD: Nightlife.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightlife_%28role-playing_game%29
I saw hedgefag grazing in the field once eating some grassBut I stepped on a twig and he darted away
>>97776593He sensed your malicious intent (rape).
>>97772724dav20 added the ability to learn physical disciplines without a teacher from vtrmaking this pretty much the norm for any kindred even somewhat interested in combat even with the nerf to celerity
>>97776925Well, VtR had it that there's a bunch of generic disciplines anyone can learn, like Celerity, Vigor, Obfuscate, and so on, while each of the five clans has one exclusive you need to get trained on, like Nightmare for Nosferatu and Dominate for Ventrue, and two general ones that are cheaper in XP.
>>97777206yeah dav20 in general adds some template upgrades from vtr, but not all of them in fullthey also get regeneration without the need to roll if doing actions, but don't half all lethal damage to bashing for example
>>97777206https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X3h_zP4ccbg
Making a werewolf with the old Friend of Sorcery merit to get the Theurge XP rates.What would be a good Auspice to 'combo' with it?Not that there's too many, but can't quite decide on one.Probably not Ragabash (though I do like several of their Gifts)
>>97777389in these games wouldn't a vampire mostly get around the need for the support group by using ghouls?
>>97776593What do you even want from him?
>>97778311…Everything.
>>97780307damn zombie simpsons made homer a cuck?
>>97770287>Changelings wishing they could be cool
>>97777660Why not a Theurge?
I know this isn't /vg/ but thoughts?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kesz-Oagr3s
>>97781161>thoughts?Even trying to put my dislike of H5 and WoD5 aside... looks generic. If you didn't have them write "VENTRUE?! LASOMBRA?!" on the conspiracy corkboard, how could you even tell it's a WoD game and not a generic vampire hunter game? I honestly don't know why studios bother to go to Paradox for the WoD IP when, if anything, the games they've made for Paradox except Earthblood, to be fair could be an original urban fantasy IP. The weight of expectations as to what WoD "should" be outweighs, in my estimation, the very small amount of guaranteed purchases from fanatics. The visual novels actually might benefit from it, because VNs are very cheap to make. Though honestly I have no earthly idea how Paradox managed to attract a non-VN developer after the Bloodlines 2 fiasco. But, even grading it just as an urban fantasy monster hunter game... it looks very generic. The aesthetics scream UE5 slop. None of the character designs really grabbed me, the brief window of gameplay didn't seem too interesting, very normal FPS view. It's a trailer so there's little actionable information to go on, but it didn't grab me.
>>97781161Im kinda with >>97781304 it looks pretty generic. I was kinda surprised they knew the names of 2 clans and had the malkavian symbol. Personally I would branched it out. Instead of Ventrue or Lasombra on the little cards, I would have put "Blank Body?" and maybe list an ability or too. Im also jaded with the video game industry so Im probably being more cynical than I should be.
>>97781416Ability or two*Fuck, my writing is starting to deteriorate.
>>97781416>Im probably being more cynical than I should be.On the contrary, you're being too damn nice.
>>97781416Yeah it's always a bit worrying when a trailer doesn't seem to understand basic setting conceits. Like that fact that most people in WoD, even powerful influential supernaturals, have a very limited understanding of the world.That and the studio only really has one game of any real note and no rpg experience.
>>97781161>>97781304>Robocop: Rogue City studio>No details on actual gameplay>H5 based, so there's probably going to be some kind of awkward, bad conceit to explain why you're able to Rambo through monsters and know way more than you should
>>97781416>I was kinda surprised they knew the names of 2 clans and had the malkavian symbol.Yeah, it's a bit of a red flag. If it were real WoD I could buy seemingly low level indie hunters knowing Lasombra given the Sabbat's indiscretion. Knowing Ventrue is much more of an "oh shit" since they're among the most zealous Masquerade enforcers. Maybe someone pulled a Pyotr and name-dropped them to hunters out of spite, but that's not something you'd casually put in a trailer if you were thinking of reasonable ways for the protags to know these names. All of this being evidence to my point on the weight of expectations as to what WoD "should" be being a noose around any dev's neck. If it were a generic modern monster hunter game... I'd honestly probably still pick it up if it were reasonably priced and not a complete dumpster fire because I like that shit. But it being a WoD game... little things would piss me off and I wouldn't be able to enjoy perfectly par gunplay being directed at the monster mash. >Im probably being more cynical than I should be.We all got jaded with the video game industry for good reason. Maybe it'll be just mid, but more likely is a buggy unfun mess where you gun down hordes of generic monsters with your designed by committee friends.
>>97781161
>>97781649>>97781653Given the studio it will probably be a 4 or 6 out of 10, the kind that leaves nothing worth talking about or stealing from because of how basic it is.
>>97781161After Bloodlines 2 I'm surprised they still want to try, but yeah, this might actually work, if they make it a straightforward shooter in AA quality, set in WoD. Kinda like they did for Robocop. I won't be great, but it has a real chance being good.
>>97781161If this game flops, what is next for White Wolf? I'd rather not be cynical but this doesn't look like the game to save the state of modern WoD. It hurts seeing this IP be managed so poorly.
The game should've been an X-Com like.
>>97782008I have a feeling that Paradox lined up a bunch of studios to release games. With the assumption when they did this that bloodlines 2 would be a blockbuster. But they kind of fucked that up. I don't know if bloodlines 2 can be considered a financial flop, but it certainly didn't do as well as they hoped and was a critical flop. Maybe they have more games in the works. Given this is planned for less than a year after bloodlines they probably thought they could turn it into a yearly franchise. >>97782034If it flops they can pass the WoD curse onto another sucker and sell the IP on.If only Paradox cared about the tabletop side of WoD considering how much money they seem to be funnelling into trying to make it a video game franchise.
>>97782092A hunter investigative/ strategy/ tactical game actually sounds pretty great.
>>97782106>I don't know if bloodlines 2 can be considered a financial flopIt spent what, total of 8 years in development? And Paradox had to back out of selling clans as day 1 DLCs due to public backlash. I'm no accountant but the chances that it will pay for itself are slim to none.
>>97782092X-Com style games are out of fashion.
>>97782092Despite XCOM being very popular there aren't many games like it>>97782157Both Phoenix Point and Jagged Alliance 3 are pretty new but still it's not a genre with many games
>>97781161Why is most of the trailer about a shovelhead rando in a cop uniform, when you could start with pic related and open with: "They think they control everything..."
>>97781161>thoughts?It's 5th ed, my opinion is pretty low, the only saving grace would be good gameplay since. Now, fucking up a hunter game should be pretty hard if you ask me, the premise is simple, having limited knowledge of the setting won't be a problem (unless you're supposed to be playing as some expert hunter suffering from amnesia. Pyre wasso fucking stupid holy shit) if they write it well. Something tells me that we'll have very little choice as to what we'll actually be able to do storywise. The only positive thing (or a bad thing) is that it might draw more people to the setting. Robocop was received pretty well so fans of that game might be check this out. You just know that they're gonna force this 'muh lone hunter' thing on you. Probably gonna butcher OG hunters more than they already have
>>97782859Ir they didn't lean into the lone wolf bullshit there would be even less of a reason to not call it Vigil.
>>97782859>spoiler I doubt it. The trailer emphasizes youre working with at least two other people. But maybe they will get picked off during the game and then you have to become a lone hunter before fighting the main antagonist.
>>97783164>VigilAs if they'd ever recognize that nWod exists.
>>97767360Malk are up there at the top with the other big Cam clans, they just look like fools so they can get away with more fucked up shit. The tech bros of vampires if you will.
Any books or STV content that have, for lack of a better term, "magic items"? I recall artifacts being a thing and once reading about Caine's rock for example that would kill anything it struck but don't recall where. I need mcguffins for my PCs to chase and for NPCs to send them on errands for.
>>97782859>SpoilerThere's nothing wrong with being on your own. It's only a problem when it's forced on you. SAD makes an appearance and judging by the fact we're choking one of them out we can assume that we won't be working with them. Remember, coalition is le bad.
>>97782859>the premise is simple, having limited knowledge of the setting won't be a problem (unless you're supposed to be playing as some expert hunter suffering from amnesia. Pyre wasso fucking stupid holy shit) if they write it well.I mean, if they'd followed BL1's thing of you being newly embraced it would make sense to be coming in a blank slate. BL2v1's thing was that you're a new Thinblood who has to get inducted into a clan.
>>97782859>Probably gonna butcher OG hunters more than they already haveKeep in mind that H5 completely dumped the Imbued, so it's basically just Vigil style street cell hunters as the only option anyways.
How would you guys handle statting a party of Hunters having a Hermit associate that has DuPont or Rothschild-tier money? Someone that occasionally calls in with seemingly important word salad but also wires them shitloads of money and can cast 20th level Summon Attorney and Turn UnFeds.Not the guy himself because he's an NPC, I mean what dots would you have the actual party shell out for>>97782008If they were truly based and wanted to make money they don't they would make it a Hunter the Reckoning game, say, "fuck the client and their IP", and make it a combination of Max Payne 3 and Manhunt 2 where you play as a Wayward. The player would have no idea if the protagonist is just fucking tweaking or if he really is turning himself into a mild inconvenience for a vast conspiracy.
Hypothetically speaking: lets say a gen 7 Tzimisce uses Vicissitude on a mortal to make them look like something like pic rel and that mortal gets embraced by another vampire and is also the same generation as the original Tzimisce. Would they be able to revert back to their original form or are they stuck with that as their default because that is what they looked like when they were embraced?
>>97784333It's their "original form" as per the embrace, if I recall ghouling someone can heal a wound or whatever but embracing them locks them into their wounded form. If your subject was embraced by another Tzimisce (fuck the Old Clan), then they could ostensibly just fleshcraft themselves back to "normal". They could also just learn Vicissitude regardless and do so.
>>97784333they would be stuck. the embrace only heals very recent wounds as to make post mortem embraces possible it it's not literally a minute old wound or younger then it doesn't even heal a sunburn as a certain sabbat cardinal can attest to
>>97783432Path of Spirit Manipulation 4 allows a vampire to create werewolf fetishes:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Fetish_(WOD)#List_of_Rulebook_Fetishes
>>97784333unless you have a certain toreador merit, a demon pack or are a samedi the embrace locks you in at the moment of your embrace so in other words they would stay a walking masquerade violation
>>97784333Time for the fledgling to get at least 3 dots in Vicissitude to start unfucking that body, or die trying
>>97784368But wouldnt they need to be an equal or lower generation as that Tzimisce in order to fleshcraft their appearance or would embracing them cancel out that rule as that is considered their default form?
>>97784476One of the conditions given was that the subject is of the same generation as the one that fleshcrafted them
>>97781421Because Theurge w/ friend of sorcery is only an extra 1 xp reduction
>>97784598that was meant to go to >>97780916(How did it misclick that much?)
>>97784530Sorry. My brain went tangential and imagined them getting embraced by the original Tzimisce when I read >>97784368 .
>>97784647You're all good, man
When is Wraith: The Oblivion going to have its comeback?
>>97784602Subtle Mind influence at play.
>>97783310What are you talking about? Vigil is all about teamwork.
>>97784302>say, "fuck the client and their IP"This is how you get sued into oblivion.
>>97760310>>97767528werewolves don't need space ships to go into space and they'd scoff at the very idea
>>97784898Right after Paradox gets done gutting everything that made the Shadowlands interesting and inject it with some gay social justice bullshit that ruins the concept of an uncaring death bureaucracy.
>>97782689>Why is most of the trailer about a shovelhead rando in a cop uniformShovelheads aren't expected to live more than a night or a week depending on their purpose, and are probably Brujah stock. Copper's black eyes are a dead ringer for Lasombra and they tend not to do throw-away embraces. Their sense of self-worth is too high for that.
>>97785160No, but others do, and if they're on a crew, they'll travel that way.One of the fun notes from that book was ideas like that there's a Hedge "Escape Hatch" in a closet on the ship, and occasionally you just randomly get an escaped Changeling coming out of it.
>>97782008Their Robocop adaptation was maybe the best adaptation we could have gotten of robocop, so I think these guys have actual potential. That said though, I still loathe Hunter 5 and I don't expect this game to be nearly as good as bloodlines given that it's a modern one
>>97782008>>97785398Blood and sweat went into that game and several of the things that make it fall short of great are intentional to stay true to the source material. I will forgive this a thousand times before I forgive shit lore and/or ambience once.
>>97784898>>97785165If the Wraith VR game didn't generate interest it's pretty fucked. That said though, I think there's a lot of potential of a Wraith Resident Evil-like. It's not so much that Wraith has no appeal, but more so terrible marketing for an already niche IP. Wraith kind of needs people that get the IP and horror elements (for the early game) a lot more than other splats do
>>97785407>Blood and sweat went into that game and several of the things that make it fall short of great are intentional to stay true to the source materialExplain.
>>97785407Fair enough, Robocop is flawed on purpose and I can respect that. I have no doubt these guys can actually adapt WoD and Hunter well into a game and actually make it play well too, my only issue with it is that the Paradox WoD well is pre-emptively poisoned and Hunter is kind of boring since it has to end up picking a main splat to focus on anyway since the devs won't have a budget to make multiple arcs and write them well unless it's an anthology-esque character piece ala Nocturne (99) which is probably too soulful and difficult for the modern dev That is to say, I know it'll likely be a good game, but it's basically being held back by elements entirely outside of the dev studio since Paradox probably forced their hand into Hunter
>>97785427nta but it would be helpful to look at the dev logs for the game though I'll try to summarize>a lot of effort went in to making you FEEL like Robocop>so a lot of FPS gameplay conventions like fast snappy movement went out the window in exchange for Robocop-esque walking tank shenanigans like breaking walls and being nearly immortal>armory is limited to things robocop would be using>game still plays very well and while you aren't exactly John COD it's still enjoyable>this will filter all the adhd brainrotted modern players so the game has a limited audience, at the cost of actually playing like a robocop game should play
>>97785427>Explain.The pacing of movement and combat is very flat to the ground and ponderous but that's just how Robocop is. He is not fast, he's a rock smashing something against a hard place. It's like Deus Ex Human Revolution except Jensen is built out of CRT monitors and automobile factory robot arms.
>>97785471>Jensen built out of CRT monitorsKek, funny idea
>>97785416The trouble with Wraith is that you need a fucking encyclopedia to understand anything that happens beyond a generic haunting in the Skinlands. That works fine in a Vampire the Masquerade game, like Bloodlines, but actually playing a ghost that has broken Charon's law requires either a lot of whacky shit happening really fast or an exposition dump.
>>97785447Rogue City's strongest trait was writing that captured the almost-gritty almost-comical tone of Robocop, and even the underlying body & philosophical horror that Murphy has to deal with as a person. I recall a conversation with the therapist assigned to him where you are given the option to either say that you believe you are Murphy, or you can say that you view yourself as a machine like ED-209 and that Murphy is dead. That plot arc was very thoughtful.
>>97785511Just don't give the player any information, make them perpetually unlucky, delusional, and occasionally have an NPC bring about some lore and exposition. Admittedly, this would produce a game that's much more game-y than a modern one. I don't particularly appreciate modern games treating gamers like retards or pretending they're movies and that everything MUST be explained. Depending on the game type it can be useful, but Doom hardly needs any actual introduction or exposition. Admittedly, Wraith as an RPG would probably need some conventions, but it's mainly due to poor writing and scenario managing that exposition needs to be frontloaded
>>97785525These guys have it in them to make a good game, but Robocop hasn't been raped halfway to death. I hope they capture the isolating tone of hunter though, but it seems like they mostly did in the trailer. Though the description having>Vampires, Werewolves, WitchesSounds like it'll make for a bit of a shitshow. Not even bloodlines had M*ges
>>97785511>requires either a lot of whacky shit happening really fast or an exposition dumpThat's what Reapers are for, silly. They want to make sure new Enfants are indoctrinated by THEIR ideology.
>>97785532>Sounds like it'll make for a bit of a shitshow. Not even bloodlines had M*gesCould just be hedge magicians, to be fair. Sorcerors aren't always Awakened. Since they've got Sabbat Lasombra I'm going to go out on a limb and guess we're probably going to get a buffet of supernaturals probably affiliated through PENTEX or one of its subsidiaries. Malks have a presence, Lasombra that couldn't stomach bowing to the ivory tower would cozy up to corporate power, black spiral dancers are accessible as well as banes and fomori. Hell maybe a Nephandi if they really do want to segue into Mage.
>>97759963>The Hollow Ones are a TraditionIs the same as saying>Pluto is a planet
>>97785570Your image reminded me, after the Fatigue episode of HTP I thought that a video game about a Victorian industrialist that fell in with the Wyrm and loved hunting monsters (Fera, Vampires that have reached Golcanda and The Poor) would be fucking based. You would gain power (level up) by "liberating ancient spirits" (freeing Banes) and taking them into your body. You would travel the world by Zeppelin, leaving oil wells, mines, quarries and rubber plantations in your wake. Gameplay would consist of you and your cadre of henchmen abusing villagers in whatever colony you were visiting, investigating expeditions that got wiped out, and then you personally venturing off alone for whatever reason to personally murderfuck a werewolf or five. As long as your actions were comically evil with no justification beyond either killing the world or turning a quick buck, I think you could make it and claim that it's obvious satire without people sperging out on you from both sides. Maybe. Probably not. Almost certainly not.Anyway, maybe it ought to be pitched to Paradox for them to ruin when they inevitably screw the pooch with the current studio on the HtR game.
>>97785734>As long as your actions were comically evil with no justification beyond either killing the world or turning a quick buck, I think you could make it and claim that it's obvious satire without people sperging out on you from both sides. Maybe. Probably not. Almost certainly not.It could be done, and well. Modern media is receptive enough to satirical indulgence. You'd just have to be real careful about delving into the particularly edgy aspects of the Triat that Wyrm-lore tends to slide into. Acoording to the books PENTEX has an actual child rapist on its board of directors for example. That shit'll never be in a splatbook again. It's going in the memory hole with Doktor Totentanz and Heinrich Himmler.
>>97785754>Acoording to the books PENTEX has an actual child rapist on its board of directors for example.What IRL megacorp doesn't, really.
>>97785852Exactly why it's too spicy for modern WoD. In the 2000s you could viciously tear into corporations like that and get away with it. Now everything has to be clean, sterilized, and gay so some loser game journalist doesn't write a dozen smear articles about your intellectual property at the prompting of their corpo-media overlords.
>>97785865Grim
>that toreador is flirting with you againWhat do you do?
>>97785908Remind her that if we even pretended to fuck it'd basically just be putting necrophiliac pornography in the Chantry's blood repository.
Curious Tremere girls
>>97785532The narrative lead for the game is the guy that has been STing every WoD splat in existance for the last 25 years. I wouldn't be too worried about the lore autism.
Dumb question but I'm a long time VtM and wta st and making the differen groups / clans / tribes within the splats work together in those is easy and fine. I wanna tackle MtA but in there the traditions are actively working against each other and sure they both fight back against the Technocracy but there's no Prince to make them work together and no Totemic spirit to bring them all in under one pack. What reasons or excuses have you used to make people from say Etherite and Verbena traditions not only work together but do it well.
>>97785908I roll to Grapple, aiming to pin the toreador down, then force the vamp to endure my 3 hour monologue on why modernist art and architecture sucks and how all architects need to be shot.Then i create a sun.
>>97786168>What reasons or excuses have you used to make people from say Etherite and Verbena traditions not only work together but do it well.Same reasoning as vampire clans: The Technocracy is always up your ass at all hours of the day. The trees and the birds are fake. Your neighbor is a clone cyborg terminator waiting for a burn order to set off a tactical nuclear device in its chest cavity. Reality itself is your enemy and all you've got is eachother.
>>97785427One fun detail I remember is that you can kill ED-209 with exactly two shots if you're using the cobra assault cannon, just like in the original movie.
>>97786455Also, shooting the goons' dicks off becomes a legit strategy after some point.
>>97786168If there's a lot of mages in the city, they operate under the auspices of the Council of Nine Traditions, which have sworn to work together to fight back against the Technocracy. For the sake of a chronicle, the players likely serve as a taskforce put together by their superiors, intended to compliment each other and shore up each other's weaknesses, and deal with whatever the chronicle's big problem is.If there's very few mages in the city, then the Technocracy is likely even more overbearing, as its control over the city will be almost absolute. Even if their methodologies differ dramatically, the other players are going to be some of the only people they will ever meet who won't try to force them to conform to reality. You could call it an alliance of convenience, but it's a little more than that when it's the players versus the rest of the world.
>>97784898Sadako never had fat tits, and samara died before puberty
>>97786583Just apply molliate until reaching the desired figure.
>>97786181It has been a while hasn't it?
>>97786482There was that one time I recreated that robocop parody where he's shooting everyone's dicks off.
>>97767135How so? I haven't read CM or Dreaming.
>>97785865Hey it's almost as if they bought all the names that held any real cultural relevance.The closest thing to an independent game in the 2020s is fucking Lancer of all things and it's so politically bland I don't even think it matters.
>>97784929Exactly, if you had anything involving teamwork or larger organizations in the game you would be better off using Vigil to replicate it in the TTRPG side.
>>97784302Tell me what studio would even be willing to deal with the PR nightmare of "manhunt 2"
>>97786144>The narrative lead for the game is the guy that has been STing every WoD splat in existance for the last 25 years.And his takes are hot garbage.
>>97785570No offense anon, but this reads as delusional copium. What about that trailer made you think that you're going to be dealing with a grand pentex conspiracy when W5 heavily cut back on their importance and structure. I'm also strongly of the belief that the Lasombra will be Camarilla if they get into vampire sect politics at all. Like seriously, did we watch the same trailer? It looked extremely generic.
>>97785865I thought that the Mario trial proved that people love when C.E.O.s get what they deserve.
>>97787444But why would the CEOs greenlight that kind of portrait of their class?
>>97787523Considering the one CEO that ignored his lawyers to listen to some chatbot, I think theyre simply really fucking stupid and will do whatever they think will get them more money. Theyre like crack whores in that regard.
>>97787523Same reason companies like Amazon regularly fund shows that depict megacorps as horrible and cruel? They make money.
Question for the VtM to VtR2E conversion anonExtinguish (level 2 Thaumaturgy Ritual) does not list a duration for the benefit. I would guess you don't intend the vampire to be able to extinguish fire for the rest of their unlife? Although, I'd also imagine exposing yourself to aggravated damage and frenzy merits a higher duration than V20's single night...
>>97785754>PENTEX has an actual child rapist on its board of directors for example.Just the one? Unlike all the other big corpos who have all-pedo board of directors? That's embarrassing.
>>97787613Thanks. There's only a risk of aggravated damage, and a creative thaumaturge could other rituals/lure of flames to create an unnatural flame that wouldn't risk frenzy. There's also fortitude, which could convert any agg into lethal or just tank it outright. Extinguishing all natural fire as a no-roll instant action is very powerful, so I'd rule it as Nights = Blood Potency. For most neonates it's only a night, but elders could retain the ability for much longer. Heck, you could use Blood 3, Blood of Potency to do something really cute. Will add and update soon.
>>97786891I feel like it wouldn't have anywhere near the controversy that Manhunt 2 had when it released, and I'm under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that the, "The video game/ movie violence made me kill those kids!" argument doesn't hold up as well as it used to, and it didn't hold much then. I'm pretty sure that the proverbial soccer mom is too busy blaming gun ownership and chuds on internet forums to focus on the media.
>>97787652Compared to real life it is a little unbelievable that they only have one token child rapist on the board.
>>97787715Thanks for the quick response!My pals decided to change from an Archon chronicle into a Tremere chronicle, so we'll prolly end up doing an extensive review of Blood Sorcery in the end
>>97787038>What about that trailer made you think that you're going to be dealing with a grand pentex conspiracy when W5 heavily cut back on their importance and structure1) They're the lowest hanging fruit that wraps up Vampires, Werewolves, and "Witches" into one pretty little bow-tied package.2) That's how the other Hunter games did it.3) I can make leaps of logic and no one can stop me.
>>97787593>>97787602Fair enough I suppose.
>>97787924>That one on the left looks like the NWO logo more than Tellus
>>97787754A big issue is that Manhunt is sadistic in its violence. Oftentimes games will frame violence as cool and excessive and all those things, but if it's framed as necessary then it's just edgy shlock, which can get a pass. Playing a schizo murderhobo guided by Angels isn't necessarily going to overlap with Manhunt levels of sadism.You need the superior Hunter gameline for that.
>>97788002>Playing a schizo murderhobo guided by Angels isn't necessarily going to overlap with Manhunt levels of sadism.Don't worry, we have just the thing.
>>97788000In a way but the NWO's logo is very tidy, and its constituent shapes do not overlap in any way.
>>97787924As long as you're acknowledging you're making massive leaps here. Those eyes look more like auspex icons or something. Not to mention you circled the Brujah and Malkavian symbols as "Sabbat clans", which isn't correct. I don't understand anyone having hope for a ParaWoD product. That trailer looked very generic unrealslop.
>>97787912No problem. I occasionally check the thread while doing other things. Looking forward to seeing how an all one clan chronicle would go.
anons I'm still trying to figure it out. how the hell is /schreck/ still alive but every other WoD RP thread died after a single digit number of threads.
>>97788002>manhunt framed as necessaryManhunt was genuinely edgy though wasn't it?
>>97786215>At the end of time your only neighbors are a Wiccan schizo and a guy that thinks Frankenstein was a guide and not a warningI'd sooner shoot myself and die a respectable alchemist
>>97786455>>97786482What would be the equivalent of this in the Hunter game that something like Bloodlines 2 could never do? Dead hobos? Killing everyone?
>>97788135Dedicated autims. We stopped making other RPs because we simply ran out of ideas. We never got around to mage RP though. Imagine the autistic arguing...
>>97788079>anons I'm still trying to figure it out. how the hell is /schreck/ still alive but every other WoD RP thread died after a single digit number of threads.Never bothered to look at the NWO but that symbol looks remarkably Tremere-esque
>>97788135>>97788177Wolf thread was a containment thread for funny RP and Vigil was a community voted thread for explicitly temporary RP and even then a lot of anons notably said they had trouble figuring out how to participate. Neither of those were intended to last a long time iirc
>>97788097>Not to mention you circled the Brujah and Malkavian symbols as "Sabbat clans", which isn't correct.Statistically speaking, if there is a gaggle of shovelheads they are very likely Brujah antitribu. Not only that, but the Brujah soft exit from the Cam put even more strain on their clan's image and it's not unheard of for self-proclaimed Anarchs to progress into Noddist fuckery. I mean, shit, that's half of the Sabbat's history.As far as Malks go, they're probably the Clan with the strongest identifiable ties to Pentex. A Malk sits on the board of directors and has sired progeny inside the corporation's structure. Granted they're Sabbat only on the surface, since the asshole in charge is a wyrm-diabolist, but still antitribu.>I don't understand anyone having hope for a ParaWoD product.Robocop: Rogue City impressed me despite being only somewhat above average in quality. Terminator: Resistance was also pretty decent. Both go to great lengths to capture the aesthetic and tone of their setting even if they were a bit mediocre.
>>97788268I'm surprised no one's tried to make WoD coop games, they seem like they'd be very fun. Even a L4D-like ala Vermintide would probably sell very well. There's always plenty of trash to murder in some of these
>>97788178Wizard nerds do so love their recursive patterns.
>>97788278>I'm surprised no one's tried to make WoD coop games, they seem like they'd be very fun.Imagine a WoD game where you smoke Reality Deviants as members of Iteration X pogrom squads
>>97788268>Both go to great lengths to capture the aesthetic and tone of their settingYes, and the trailer showed none of that. It has the same generic look as the other ParaWoD games. This is probably the fault of the reference materials Paradox gave them, but it doesn't change the fact that the trailer didn't have much aesthetic to it.
>>97788278>>97788324I want a coop werewolf beat em up like last years Absolum where they try to escape/resolve a recursive night of events which may or may not be happening in the umbra.
>>97788002I specifically mentioned Manhunt 2 because you play as a schizo murderhobo guided by the chunk of a serial killer's brain that was implanted into your own. You literally walk into a hotel, hear the guy behind the counter making a call saying, "Yeah, he's here" or some shit and you just cave his head in with a rotary phone. The game starts with you breaking out of an asylum and killing the patients and guards while screaming incoherent nonsense.Fuck, that game achieved the perfect harmony of cringe and based to play on the Wii when I'd never touched another game with gunplay on it.
Here is my world of darkness x my hero academia setting. Where quirks and supernaturals emerged at the same time Academia the masquerade: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fyayUALDu4V4rthS-O5foRhJiRjWjMYLCrXIvU-zcY/edit?usp=drivesdkMustufu by night: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DMUJY3lK4iMlehJsYcDbGHfbORY9LTVwq0qosEI0_XA/edit?usp=drivesdkAcademia the ascension: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KYpeAINsgBNy6_edP7spPWjwy3s-JHDECcHii6V3Tx8/edit?usp=drivesdkAcademia the Apocalypse: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DYN06i5LH0H_n7k8R9ol1izu4ExdEh1DyyNBQCGRK2Y/edit?usp=drivesdkAcademia the Dreaming: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aTY_SfilIxXwO-vrOV3O0L6lU-VVeP1u0tP_ZwRm9mI/edit?usp=drivesdkRage across the cascades: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19-OHcKn_tit98LndDNjdpfXRVCZ05b0umMcRyhXbRmc/edit?usp=drivesdkGuide to the kindred: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10hbMo1dzHUIpqaspSYCNHw7jEoLcLKhV9cX3b4OF2Xg/edit?usp=drivesdkGuide to pro hero society:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TcZ8Xp3qOBD1gE20zD4LWL2sc48eIa4IsLwTKA0lwRs/edit?usp=drivesdkKindred of the east: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cDzmO_QFw0PUYkDhpt0Q225sOXGxZ_VN0a8DqcFBuhk/edit?usp=drivesdkLost Tribes Reborn: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ezilnVLpiaEdKKpDtktXkdr-8wRHIyDIHStNQFvprO0/edit?usp=drivesdkGuide to the Inquisition and Hunters: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fb5EQRfHioQxA6UJAKxPFSirh5AjpG1V5KCeD8UWD90/edit?usp=drivesdkLittle Gods of 8 Million Dreams: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bFn5Youm_B2XI2yoSaKDlXZ00XQ3jpccue27sDNJqKQ/edit?usp=drivesdkPlayers Companion Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gFt0WEHqir7Ciu2vki4fLeZC15n2MrQ5QHrEkU79h60/edit?usp=drivesdkDragons of the east: New supplement https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-zW9g-KTB8GgxW2SMNSixcyRvE61Qype2Hghzmf8joY/edit?usp=drivesdkQing Qing by night: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19FvZVg2lKj70Wx9kxj018zzmIlX0HmC4SAY5p7rirAk/edit?usp=drivesdk
>>97788324>>97788356These are cool ideas, I had in mind something like a gang of Camarilla vampires (4 or 5 of them) trying to exact revenge on a Sabbat Archbishop and killing a lot of ghouls and lower level vampires in the process (and some Hunters)
>>97788268Is that a Sharty edit or is Soot an actual person in that game
>>97788333Noticed a couple more things after watching the trailer again. The Cell is definitely aware of the Cam, which isn't surprising since New York was usurped by the ivory tower years ago.>>97788451Soot is the leader of a drug gang called the Torch Heads.
>>97788456>Torch Heads.Lel, it's funny how retarded internet memes can coincidentally line up
>>97788423My world of academia? Anyway, all the supernatural rules about concealment probably go out the window with literal superheroes
>>97788480>>97788480>>97788480
>>97788456three rando hunters knowing that much about the Camarilla is a red flag, not a green one. You praising the devs for their past titles and ignoring the actual concerns raised with the trailer reminds me of the rhetoric from supporters Bloodlines 2.
>>97788506>three rando hunters knowing that much about the Camarilla is a red flagEh, I dunno about that. Anarchs are always the first batch of retards to spill information and "Cam" or "Cammie" is their favorite go-to topic for any bitchfest they might have about their position in unlife.
I cried tears of joy while reading the Endron section of the Pentex book. They really don't make villains like they used to.>"Yeah, this oil deposit is great and all, but can't you find one with demons in it?">"Sir, why did you blow your load when I gave you the likelihood of a total core meltdown in our Connecticut plant?">Making spiritually addictive gas for cars>"On one hand, we lost a fully loaded oil tanker. On the other hand, it spilled all of its contents into the Gulf of Mexico and the Everglades">Using actual, unironic witchcraft to rig fucking NASCAR>Buying out research firms on the brink of inventing clean power, shuttering them and forcing all of the employees to sign NDA's and noncompetes>Lobbying against environmental regulation as a matter of spite alone, even when it would boost profits
>>97788527Now keep all that in mind and look at this stupid bitch's character sheet. 20 peaceful protestors against fucking Endron, a corporation made up of people that would vivisect puppies for fun while snorting the powdered bonedust of a species they rendered extinct last week.
>>97788190Pretty much this. Second hunter thread was there for wrapping things up. We didn't even manage to hit the bump limit I was going to help with that but I forgot
