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>>98010861
I've never gotten the chance to use em but the Funeral Mountain Terrashot, they're giant walking coffins that when they trip fucking explode. They're often treated as suicide bombers by those that get their hands on them but they're extremely dangerous to handle given their volatility. Best not to disturb them and give them a wide berth lest you get caught up in the blast.
I'd also just make em literally walking coffins with four legs.

Any cool stories about weird/mad kindred embracing people to form a "family"?
Like, a "mom/wife", a "son" a "daughter"?

>>98010861
>What sort of cryptids exist in your chronicles?
Cave monkeys and sentient ants.

>>98010861
>What sort of cryptids exist in your chronicles?
I don't know if it counts, but an NPC told my character that she and her friends found an ankylosaurus in the Backrooms (and named him 'Bonk').

>If Vampire A diablerizes Vampire B, Vampire A gains Vampire B's Generation rating (expanded blood pool, raised caps and all) and the full use of all of Vampire B's Disciplines
>after X months, Vampire A loses all he gained from his diablerie except for (standard rewards of diablerie as per core)
>Vampire A also has to fight to restrain the mother of all power trips for the duration as Vampire B's power burns in his veins
What changes if you introduce this house rule, gameplay and lorewise? Can also work for Requiem as well, tell me what if anything changes in that game too.

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>>98011034

>cryptozoology
Every moment brings me back to that city with the phasmid... Something Disco about it...

>>98000315
I skimmed a bunch of different depictions of the underworld in different mythologies and belief systems looking for the ways they described the geography and such. It's kind of given me this idea of the underworld as basically a combination of One Piece and Dark Souls: there's a ton of different depictions of rivers, that may or may not be of water, more giant cosmic trees than I expected, and a buch of gates are sometimes (but not always) literal separating different areas and layers (which in this case might also work as separation of the realm of the dead from the world of the living and the Dark Below of demons - plenty of mentions of evil spirits and demonic characters in those underwolds too, giving me this thought that as you go deeper and lower into the underworld you reach the foundations of the world from which wisps of darkness drift towards the Skinlands before gaining sapience).

And if one is worried about a weird and cthonic underworld dragging too much of the focus away from interaction with other ghosts and with the world of the living, all the dangerous hazards and gates that might be secret or locked could help with that.

Like, your ghost arrives to an island in the underworld that has its own society, and if they don't like it they have to either try to chart a way to another island themselves (and incredibly perilous odyssey), enlist with a major faction that has a relatively safe method to travel (the valkyries might have Ships of Nails that allow them to spread their influence across many islands, for example, and they are always in need of fresh meat to throw at their struggle against Ragnarok)... or you try to bypass the hazards by using the Skinlands as a shortcut: different pathways between the realms of the living and the dead leading to very different areas would serve as a reason to give the factions of the underworld stakes in having a certain amount of control over parts of the world of the living

>>98000315
>>98011318
Some of the geographical details I saw mentioned:
>Glowing ashes
>The word for Hel's hall means "sprayed with snowstorms" or "damp with sleet or rain"
>A sunny region where hemlock grows
>Dark misty clouds
>A deep well, dark, stinking, and extremely narrow, with demonic monsters (xrafstars) the size of mountains at the smallest nearby
>Demonic xrafstars such as frogs, reptiles, scorpions and insects like ants or wasps
>The underworld as a reflection or inversion of the dome of the upper heavens, narrower the deeper you go
>The Duat has realistic features such as rivers, islands, fields, paths, and lakes, but also lakes of fire, walls of iron, and trees of turquoise
>A crossroads where travellers had to choose from among four roads that spoke in an attempt to confuse and beguile
>A mountain range where the mountains crash into each other
>A different area where giant fiery mountains collide with each other
>A field with wind that blows flesh-scraping knives
>Giant cosmic trees that prevent the Earth, Heavens and Underworld from collapsing into one
>Immense corpses of giant creatures and beings that helped make up the world at the beginning of time
>Pits of fire
>Yellow springs (literally what Huangquan means - it could be due to water rich in iron like Yellow Springs Ohio, due to sulfur, or something much more supernatural: could be just that water itself is yellow in this area)
>Shoals (one of the names associated with the Japanese underworld is "firm/hard-packed shoal land of origin")
>Pollution: Izanagi noted that Yomi is a "polluted land" (kegareki kuni)
>Deadly acrid smoke
>A forest of thorny trees
>A forest with sword-like leaves
>Brine and thorny rattan>
>Hot molten metal
>A dark, frozen plain surrounded by icy mountains and continually swept by blizzards
>Pandanus trees that you might need to climb to escape man-eating pigs
>Underwater sections
>Black swans that sing death spells

>>98000315
>>98011323
>Halls woven out of serpent spines, with drops of vemon leaking through the roof
>Volcanoes, and they are describe as entries to the underworld in multiple mythologies
>A region of peace and light "where darkness is unknown" (might be best to keep that away as a metaphor for Transcendence or something like that, but I could see a region of the underworld where it's just perpetually daylight)
>Swamps and huge green plain—pastures
>Pomegranate trees
>Trees that bore precious gems as fruit
>Trees with fruit that gives secrets or skills
>Deserts and steppes
>Walled and gated locations (again)
>Asphodel meadows
>Extreme darkness
>"The roots of the earth and of the unharvested sea"


And of course a ton of rivers too:
>A dark wild river that must be crossed either by a bridge, by swimming, or by boat
>Rivers of leaden water
>A river of blue-black water that is fast-moving, full of rapids, and filled with various weapons
>A river of scorpions
>A river of blood
>Another river of blood AND jaguars and snakes
>A river of pus
>A river of Sharp/Caustic Water
>Living rivers
>A river of hatred
>A river/lake of mysery and woe
>A river of blazing fire
>A river of wailing
>A river of forgetfulness
>More rivers that just don't seem to have anything special

>>98000315
>>98011318
One last thing: it could also be interesting to link stuff related to the speculations about the existence of Lemuria with ghosts.

Because Lemuria isn't just a word for a lost continent invented to explain lemur fossils, but also for a Roman festival for placating and exorcising the restless dead (lemures).

Not too personally familiar with Lemuria or theosophy's take on it, but it seems fitting that in an "all myths, superstitions and conspiracy theories have a grain of truth" world it's no coincidence that the two concepts share a name

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...Why are you guys re-inventing Shadowlands with a bit of other parts of the Umbra?
>>Giant cosmic trees that prevent the Earth, Heavens and Underworld from collapsing into one
We literally have one already in WoD

>>98011318
The more "hellish" places in the Underworld that resemble myths of punishing sinners could also be places with heavy infestations of demons. The local ghost rulers aren't often in contact with the Deathlords and major factions, or don't get enough support from them, and are forced to make deals - or they get outright deposed by a demon who wants to rule even a petty kingdom (iirc there was a mythology where 10 out of 12 rulers of the underworld were demons, for example).

Evil spirits ascend to the Skinlands from the deep darkness below the Underworld, but not everyone can cut it there: so if the Underworld doesn't try to banish demons like the Skinlands do (or at least not with the same strength) it'd become a refuge in which to build up power for the "losers" of demonkind (not necessarily actual losers, sometimes bad luck happens or you just happened to be the target or collateral of a powerful elder)


This could create a dynamic where demons aren't subjected to the same environmental pressures in the Underworld but are more vulnerable to the full military force of the Deathlords, who wage full war against them.

Meanwhile, in the Skinlands most ghosts don't have bodies, might or might not have their own issues if the Shroud is a thing, and definitely have to contend with organizations of humans corrupted by demons to act as their pawns.

And mortals are caught in the middle, between demons that manipulate them and don't care about them and ghosts that care a little more but... well, dying means that either you move on (which a lot of ghosts would envy) or become one of them (and veterans of the war can forget the traumas of their early ghosthood and their mortal lives), so the forces of the Deathlords are more cavalier with killing mortals than most humans would like.

>>98011602
Since this is a reboot I had a whim to look at mythological depictions of underworlds to see what stood out.

And between all the rivers and lakes, multiple giant trees (four in Aztec myth alone), the ash and volcanoes, I kind of began to be reminded of Ash Lake in Dark Souls. With some One Piece thrown in for all the islands that are each doing their own thing a lot of the time.

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This shit? Worthless.

>>98011848
(•▽•;)
What are you smoking?

>>98011860
Social stats don't belong in a roleplaying game. I shouldn't have to roll when I can just convince the ST myself.

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>>98011860
That was fast.

>>98011860
Social interactions and the success of persuasion and diplomacy is predicated on external circumstances and not decided by magic words.

>>98011870
>Physical stats don't belong in a roleplaying game. I shouldn't have to roll when I can just punch the ST in the teeth myself.

>>98011894
I can't simulate having superior strength. I can simulate being a more or less charismatic person.

>>98011870
By that reasoning your character should only be able to perform a feat of strength if you can go bench press 300 pounds.

>>98011896
>>98011894
The abstract representations of physical feats is possible to have in a game because physical feats are inherently simplistic, their outcomes are simple, predictable, and one dimensional.

Meanwhile human social interactions are infinitely complex and these complexities are inherently understood by human beings, making any attempt at abstraction and simplification seem ridiculous and uncanny.

>>98011883
What did you expect? There's nothing to talk about.

>>98011870
>>98011888
Charisma is not about what you say, but more personal stuff, like body language, "vibe", etc, that's where the stats come in. If a weak person is trying to act assertive or intimidating, it won't be convincing, even if they say the perfect things. Same goes for if an awkward person is trying to seduce, etc.

>>98011982
It's not about much of anything because you can just say stuff.

>>98011925
Must be nice to not be (or to be) autistic

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Since we are on a "we don't give a fuck" mood, what's your experience with ERP using WoD and what kind of scenario do you gravitate towards with each splat?
Pic related is what I imagine the average Wraith character is like because of how much of a masochist you need to be to play the game as intended.

>>98012011
Kek, I remember this being posted some weeks ago. I feel like Wraith is more for depressive and angsty nonsense more, like Romeo and Juliet's ending

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>>98012011
You are fuckers are actually erping?

>>98012036
Fair enough but the pic reminded me of some ancient kings killing slaves to bring them to the afterlife and that seems perfect for the template.

>>98012054
No nigga, I fantasize about WoD related scenarios and bust a nut before writing anything down.

>>98012063
Based.

>>98011987
If you can "just say stuff" what's the points of having stats for anything then?

>>98012036
Wraith is less angst and depression, and more macabre black humour and boundary-pushing edge. When I think of Wraith, I think of that one piece of art for it that features a bunch of mouldering corpses in a seedy club watching the bottom half of a bisected stripper dance.

>>98012102
Because you can't say stuff that needs doing.

>>98011925
Mate, this is a RPG. A pretend game in the end.
You, me and others in this thread, in real life at most have 2, maybe 3 Dots at best like most humans. But characters you play can and will be above that.
If you can't grasp that, you are way more autistic than most people.

>>98012109
No, you HAVE to knock the ST out if you want those 5+ successes.

>>98012134
But in reality, they can't. The dissonance is irreconcilable. There's subconscious pushback even when you try really hard to lean on these shitty mechanics.

>>98011987
It doesn't matter what you say if you can't sell it, and that's something that depends on the character.

>>98012148
You absolutely can.

Even if you're not going to roll for social interactions, having values for the social competence of your character is useful, because it gives you a reference point to refer back to when roleplaying the character and serves as a guideline for how you should roleplay your character. Without that reference point, there's nothing stopping a player from shifting around how charismatic their character is based on however they're feeling at the time, which leads to inconsistent roleplaying and an increased likelihood of the character just serving as a vehicle for the player, instead of a role that the players plays.

>>98012160
It doesn't do that at all. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from acting however you want regardless of your social stats.

It's just a way to scam you out of XP.

>>98012144
If you can't even manage that, how the hell are you even going to roleplay anything but an aevrage mortal. You aren't a vampire, Mage or whatever else. Even 50 year old Neonate is probably beyond you since they lived lives longer than you and faced more adversery than you ever could.

You can never be anything but other than yourself, and unfortunately, no one is as awesome and capable as their character.
(Also, get yourself checked if you really can't do it. I am not joking nor baiting, that sounds like a problem in the making if you can't)

>>98012185
>>98011925

>>98012176
That's where the ST comes in, who is supposed to be a referee in situations like this and point out "hang on, your roleplaying and your character sheet don't seem to match up."

>>98012189
>ummmm your character doesn't act like he has 3 in charisma, he's acting like more of a 4 or 5
shit no one has ever said

and if someone ever does, RUN

>>98012185
You don't need to "act" like your character has super strength or super speed or burns in the sunlight, he just fucking does.

>>98012194
... I have heard of a guy who was asked to up his social stats because he kept saying shit that was way too reasonable for a guy with Manipulation 1 Persuasion 1.

>>98012194
Nah, you deserve to get called out if your brick shithouse who has dumped all of their social attributes and has no social abilities is acting like the party face and talking like they're at the National Debate Tournament.

>>98012223
>>98012216
>hey can you make your character act a little slower? he has 1 dexterity but he's acting like he has 5!

>>98012216
>>98012223
So it's suddenly not about "aura" or "selling it" anymore? Thanks for proving my point.

You can just say stuff.

>>98012229
Actually a reasonable request, if someone keeps on describing their character as graceful and elegant and smooth and poised when they're actually Dexterity 1 and are supposed to be a clumsy piece of shit. Mechanics are supposed to give an outline of how you should roleplay and if you completely dismiss the character sheet when roleplaying your character, you might as well throw out the gameplay side of the game entirely.

>>98012246
>dude stop hitting your shots! you have no dots in firearms this is way out of character!
lmao

>>98012155
You can, but the ST can also decide that you failed anyway, if it doesn't make sense for your character. Like if your character is some nerd, it doesn't matter what kind of threats you say, you're not going to intimidate anyone. That's something that the stats can represent, even without rolling.

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>>98012176
So you have no idea what an RPG is and what mechanics are.

>>98012215
He is arguing that because human interaction is infinitely complex there is no need for Social stats. A guy who can't even imagine having better Charisma or Manipulation or whatever else than his current RL self, will fail at Roleplaying anything more complex than a normal dude with normal problems.

But hey, he is clearly Manipulation 1 equivalent in real life so it fits him

>>98012215
Thank gods you don't need to be a professional actor to roleplay, because everybody else in group (ST and autists included) have enough imagination to pull together your corny jokes and your Charisma 10 stat together in their heads in a form of the character you attempt to depict or at least to convert it into "funny" if you're THAT awful with roleplay. Oh wait, apparently you can't.

>"Nyehehe all according to my keikaku!" *adjusts glasses smugly* "I tell the Prince I'm supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty and it hasn't been 24 hours since the Primogen's disappearance so he can't accuse me of murder until a body is found. I remind the Prince this tribunal lacks jurisdiction because the crime scene was not secured pursuant to Mapp v. Ohio, meaning any physical evidence is fruit of the poisonous tree. I do not consent to any searches of my person and that includes Auspex because that counts as an invasive search under the Fourth Amendment (Kyllo v. United States, sucker!) and I have a 15-page legal affidavit that testifies at the time of the "murder" I was in my haven, also I don't forget to ask if I'm being free to g-"
That's pretty cool bro. Anyway, roll to convince the Prince of your innocence. Your character's Charisma is 1 and his Persuasion is also 1, so roll that. I'll give you a +2 for the nice speech but it's been 15 mins already and the table is getting impatient so please roll or I'll count it as an autofailure.

>>98012252
If the player is describing their character as hitting targets effortlessly without making a roll when they have no dots in Firearms, this is a valid complaint.

>>98012254
Except in reality, intimidation, just like all other forms of persuasion, can be and regularly are achieved without any magic words solely through external factors.

If the nerd has a gun you're going to be intimidated unless you're a retard who wants to get shot. And then when someone does get shot and other people still are somehow unintimidated then it's just clown shit.

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>>98012238
You are the walking WoD Sally Anne Test
"But I know how to plug a USB into the computer"
"You're playing a Torpored 9th gen from the 1860s/a garou red talon lupus"
"So? It's so obvious to me for what I need to do!"
Imagine not having breakfast this morning lol

>>98012278
Except that never happens and doesn't actually "do" anything yet we have people here who swear that the equivalent of something so retarded has happened in their games and was such an effective approach that the ST had to intervene.

>>98012288
You're still here >>98011925

>>98012299
Where's the marble retard?

>>98012267
>hasn't been 24 hours since the Primogen's disappearance so he can't accuse me of murder until a body is found
>Final Deathed
>body
I see a gaping hole in your plan.

>>98012330
I mean some ashes and a skeleton are occasionally present depending on things. Clothes are also going to still remain

All of these mental gymnastic just continue to feed into the conclusion that the stats and mechanics in question are worthless and don't actually function.

The ONLY way to make them work would be to take away the ability for people to speak in character, and that would be fucking stupid for reasons you already innately understand.

>>98012290
I've literally had a player who was a chemistry student who tried to make every character of his manufacture explosives in their free time using his real life knowledge because "it's so simple that anyone can do it." Even characters with average or subpar Intelligence were trying to make thermite and nitroglycerin, with him insisting that it's effortless and shouldn't require any roll. He tried to have a D&D character of his invent gunpowder this way.

Disbelieve me all you like, but this is the sort of shit that happens if you make entire aspects of the game rules-free. People ditch roleplaying their character in favour of accumulating as many advantages as possible without having to roll any dice.

You know, I feel glad to see this shit show because despite my fuckups I'm still not that bad.

>>98012346
>this entire post
The only thing here that is worthless and doesn't function is your frontal lobe.

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>>98010478
>Also, rebises.
What are those?

>>98012283
Yeah, sure, if there's an external factor, like a gun, blackmail, bribes, favors, etc. I can accept it, since that's something you have to get somewhere first, not some asspull. But if you're doing a "that's a nice store, would be a shame if something happened to it" routine without pulling a gun, that should be "gated" behind some stats, or maybe some kind of merit like Status.

If player wants to have low social stats and be the party’s face it’s their choice. I might lower the difficulty of their roll depending on their roleplay. Or raise it if they fumble hard. Good luck succeeding with two dice against most NPCs in debates though.

>>98012252
>Dude hasn’t heard of lucky shots
ISHYGDDT

>>98012346
Dude, we get it, you hang at the larp scene and you cannot possibly fathom the idea of an existence outside of being you because dice are weird and icky because they don't represent your massive instinct. I'm sure charismatic people never flub speeches ever

>>98012370
>>Dude hasn’t heard of lucky shots
Represented by dice, not "acting."

>>98012368
Isn't that the alchemical he/she homunculus?

>>98012351
It's trivial to justify why a character wouldn't know how to do or make something when all their physical actions are abstracted.

It's far more difficult to do so when you're not actually abstracting anything, like when you're just saying things in character. And this is how it works out in reality. You can just say stuff, making charisma and all that shit a complete joke.

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>>98012330
>>98012340

Isn't this debate ultimately pointless since the game and the rules ultimately
>depend on the ST
>clearly talk about the use case for the stats and the purpose of the system
So yeah you can say your meatbrained homunculus is a smooth talker but if the stats don't back it up and you want bonuses on rolling for the ST because of real life knowledge you're not really playing a "role-playing game"

>>98012377
It was represented by dice lol
The context was someone with 0 dots of firearms hitting their marks

What if they just have high dexterity? Or is a vamp with celerity? Or just spend a willpower to make those shots count?

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Have you ever played a Fomorian Character?

Ran my first non-jumpstart Hunter session last Thursday, it went excellently. (I ran Killing Time before this, it was terrible)
For my PCs, I have
>Oscar, a northern British man who moved to the states to get away from his old life as a thug. He worked as a bouncer before getting help landing a job as a mechanic.
>Gina, a Canadian Geology/Archaeology graduate student who lives in Iowa. She’s fond of fieldwork after growing out of her childhood asthma and her body shows it.
>Mateus, a career bounty hunter. He’s been in the game too long and is feeling the burnout, but he’s too good to quit.
>Robelle, a stage magician with a side hustle of petty thief. She uses her sleight of hand to hide her theft and her silver tongue to talk her way out of consequences.
The game takes place in the Miami Metro Area. Each character had their own 30 minute solo scene, which culminated in everyone heading to a party at Rachel’s, a strip club/steakhouse:
>Oscar’s Air of Menace intimidates an irate customer, and he uses his grappling prowess to save a coworker from a gang member beat down. An old bouncer buddy calls a favor from him to work the party.
>Gina talks with one of the speakers at a Geology Conference here in Florida. Impressed with her knowledge, the speaker mentions getting invited to a party at some steakhouse by a French scholar and invites her as a +1.
>Robelle steals a pair of rings off a man at a business party, swapping his rings for counterfeit look-a-likes during a magic trick. She gets a call from Stefano Cortés, a sleazy real-estate mogul who gets her lots of gigs; he says he’s got business to talk to her about in person that might net her $40k.
>Mateus searches the Swap-O-Rama flea market for a bounty, using his firearms experience to tase the guy right as he bolts and ending a chase before it even began. His bondsman-in-charge calls and tells him about a $40k bounty for a Stefano Cortés—who happens to be throwing a party tonight at Rachel’s.

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>>98011323
>>Black swans that sing death spells
Which myth is this from? Even if it was hallucinated by an L.L.M., it seems appropriately evocative.

>>98012401
>It's far more difficult to do so when you're not actually abstracting anything, like when you're just saying things in character.
In a game with diceless social interaction, what's to stop my home-schooled hill-billy Gangrel who's drunk most of the time from suddenly going full Ben Shapiro as soon as they're in an argument that has actual stakes?

>>98012442
>In a game with diceless social interaction, what's to stop my home-schooled hill-billy Gangrel who's drunk most of the time from suddenly going full Ben Shapiro as soon as they're in an argument that has actual stakes?
That's called a "Botch"

WoDg i need a second opinion. I got into it with one of my players last night and while there were things I considered valid criticisms, i drew the line when he was saying players should be made to sit out whole sessions because theyre in torpor or other reasons that he really didnt give. I thought this was preposterous and antifun especially considering how easy it is to get them back into the action by giving them blood.

Am I being too soft as a ST or is he just being miserable?

>>98012456
kek

>>98012458
The goal of the game is to have a good time. If you character is fucked at least give them someone else to play, even a ghoul they have to pay with XP later or something along those lines.

>>98012442
Nothing.

Nothing is stopping you even with these mechanics either.