Tell me why you love Old School Revival/Renaissance/Resurrection/Rewind/Return/Remix/Retribution/Redeployment/Riff/RelaxDontDoIt games. That's including all D&Ds before 3e and any games based off of them.And if you actually hate them, lets talk things out. There's more to the OSR than what those weird guys hanging in the /osrg/ seem to have a mind it should be, and the ultimate goal of all gaming, OSR or otherwise, should always be finding what's the most fun. Maybe that means not an OSR game for you, but even so I think there's some good wisdom that can be found where games came from that can help where they're going>TQ >How do you handle faction play in dungeons? Got any interesting stories?
>>98011100Again? Come on now. Your last attempt *just* got j&.
I really don't know what OSR is.
>>98011146And I'm a retard because you literally described it in the OP.
>>98011146Pre 3rd edition d&d and broadly the playstyle encouraged during said time period. Read the principa apocrypha for a good breakdown of said playstyle and wikipedia has a good historical summary.
>>98011146OSR is pre-2e D&D, that's the shortest, easiest way to say it. You're in a troll thread farmed by a crazed anon who can't stand that 2e isn't OSR, though, so he'll claim otherwise. He's been spamming these threads out the past few days, but the last one got baleeted, so this one isn't exactly safe.
>>98011171>OSR is pre-2e D&D, that's the shortest, easiest way to say it.That's a contested personal definition that doesn't reflect the wider OSR as a whole.
>>98011100Welcome to the seventh of a series of definitely not-a-generals posted by the board's greatest schizo, Fishfag.Reminder that the actual /osrg/ can currently be found here:>>98004530>>98004530>>98004530This is just a containment thread for the insane filled with samefagging, and for celebrating the eternal triumph of the BROSR.
>>98011176Nope, that's the correct, universal definition which reflects the wider OSR. That's why the OSR general uses it.
>>98011181No, That's your own personal contested definition, and a blatant lie that any time outside of 4chan will disprove.
>>98011100You already have a shitting street. >>97964813
Hate?No, I just prefer not to participate in D&D, of any edition.The disparity between magic users and those who don't use magic, the inconsistency of magic being literally everywhere except the specific classes who don't, the plot holes that arise from where the fuck all these magical monsters, maniacal liches, giant dragons, and evil sorcerers were before the player characters hit the correct level (the "tiger problem"), how anyone nonmagical is supposed to survive in a world of magic when the only counters to and defenses from magic come from magic too; all these and more get worse with more recent editions.And this isn't even going into the constant "yeah this system has problems but it's up to the group to fix them not the company selling the product" dismissals, the "yeah but it's not supposed to be perfect"/"no system is perfect" leaps in logic that pretend thousands of people don't treat their favorite editions like the greatest TTRPGs in existence, the fact that anything short of giving D&D figurative rimjobs is turned around on the critic like it's their personal problem and not a structural flaw observable by anyone with even rudimentary knowledge of game design, or the retarded idea that "well the social contract means game can be ignored" with the faggots spouting shit like this having the gall to call anyone else nogames.The only winning move is to play something else and to not try to talk to the braying donkeys.
>>98011251I think this got kind of solved in 5.5e.Fighters are crazy OP. They're like blenders.The unbalance in OSR games is annoying though. It gets real bad at high levels.
>>98011146It's pre-2000 RPGs for several reasons.The first is that while pre-2000 D&D is generally compatible between all the editions, 3rd edition presented a fairly big change. That means that material within the OSR can be changed between systems fairly easily, but it's the 3rd edition divide that presents a significant paradigm shift and makes it incompatible with OSR material.The second is that the OSR began as a reaction to WotC dropping all support for pre-WotC editions. The "revival" was people hoping to keep pre-WotC editions from disappearing, since many of them had long since been out of print, and there were no signs WotC had any plans to reprint them and create competition for their 3rd edition. These were fears that were expressed and still remain in the archives of several forums.The third is that 2e has been part of the OSR community since it began, and with the overwhelming majority not just including it, we even saw Dragonsfoot go from a 1e-focused website to a OD&D+B/X+1e+2e website, alongside many other related clones and inspired games. Outside of Drragonsfoot, 2e was always a part of OSR discussions on Enworld as well as Wizard's own forums, and even on 4chan in the original /osrg/.As for trying to say 2e is where the OSR should define the split and 2e should be excluded, 2e came out in 1989, and there was no mention of an revival until 2002. That's more than a decade of relative silence, and with no one claiming that 1e was "old school" in the face of 2e. Most people would assume OD&D if anyone said "old school" in 2e's heyday. The idea that anyone defines "Old School" as "pre-2e" is effectively non-existent, which makes defining "Old School Revival/Renaisance/Resurrection/Robocop" as "pre-2e" fairly ridiculous.The differences between 1e and 2e are also not that dramatic (less than the differences between 1e and B/X, for instance).
>>98011100>>98011326>stale pasta, againBoy, this guy's a glutton for punishment.
>>98011326>That's more than a decade of relative silence, and with no one claiming that 1e was "old school" in the face of 2e.Wasn't old yet you idiot. >It's pre-2000 RPGs for several reasons.Just all rpgs before 2000? lol.
>>98011100>How do you handle faction play in dungeons?For megadungeons and cities, I use a Reputation chart for factions. PCs do something to aid one faction, that faction's power (and reputation) increases, and so does the PCs reputation with that faction (same number). That acts as a modifier for a bunch of stuff, including the outcomes of unseen clashes between factions and how NPCs see PCs.It's actually adapted from a GoT game, though simplified considerably.
>>98011295>the edition that cares the least about its internal consistencies and whose fanbase is the most militant and deflective solves D&D's internal inconsistencies and militant, deflective fanbasehmmm
>>98011295Yep. They figured it out this time for sure.
>>98011295>It gets real bad at high levels.Well yeah, it's intentional.OSR is openly unbalanced, but it handles this mainly via different XP thresholds and drawbacks.Magic Users cannot use any armor and only a tiny handful of weapons, they have the lowest HP alongside the Thief in a game where it's highly lethal. They take the longest of the 4 main Human classes to level up. In return for all of this they get to be the defacto best class at high level play if they make it that far, it is far more earned than for a 5.5 wizard who levels up at an equal pace to a fighter.OSR fighters too, they don't get the power of any spells, but they can have an entire castle at level 9, with dedicated followers. the tone shifts and fighters can go from nobles to outright kings of realms, you can become aragorn leading the men of middle earth into battle.
>>98011427Do you code?Internal consistencies doesn't mean letting a program run without any oversight and hoping everything works out perfectly forever. That's how even little bugs ruin big systems.You want a good foundation, but you also want a technician that can step in and understand and fix issues as they arise. You want to be able to have a human brain, because AI is still decades from replacing that when it comes to fixing problems made by programs.That's what the DM is for. And, just like not everyone can just jump in and solve a problem in a language they don't know, a DM has to learn how to be consistent and smart and good at their job. Some programs are more buggy than others, but the really important thing is to just give the human the tools they need to not make them at the mercy of needing the system to be perfect, because its never going to be and even if it was it wouldn't be for very long.
Attention all BrOSR Bros!Activate Protocol Fishfag Yeeting Machine
>>98011155>Pre 3rd edition d&dWrong. 2e is not OSR.
>>98011196>any time outside of 4chanOff you fuck, then. Go back to rpg.net, fishnigger.
>>98011472>Well yeah, it's intentional.It's still sucks.You can work around it, you can deal with it, but it still just sucks.
>>98011326>Fishfag repeating the same schizo rant for the hundredth time.
>>98011100>That's including all D&Ds before 3e and any games based off of them.Wrong. OSR is pre-2e.
>>98011100I think [monster] makes for the best faction due to [trait], how about you?
>>98011100I like later-era Mystara material. As far away from Mentzer's stuff as possible, basically mostly the late Gazetteers.It's weird how much a setting can improve and develop over time. It's almost like... like if Dragonlance just declared all Kender had died one night.
>>98011626Fishfag trying to simulate human discussion again.
>>98011251>the only counters to and defenses from magic come from magic too;I feel like this motherfucker, this motherfucker specifically, has ruined a considerable amount of fictional thinking by influencing it with his dumb fortune cookie mantras.
>>98011626What exactly do you like about Mystara?It's always seemed like the most bland of all the official settings. I'd even drop it below Greyhawk. Even its name sounds bland.Compared to FR, I'm really not surprised that FR out-competed Mystara. Even without all the novels and Drizzt.
>>98011135>j&Jand?
>>98011295>Fighters are crazy OP. They're like blenders.They have shit hp and AC doesn't scale well against enemy to hit. Playing a fighter in our last 5e game was incredibly frustrating, I spent more time down than either of the other players.
>>98011722Once you get some +1 plate, the game's math bends the other way.It's like->17, you're always gonna be hit>18, you're gonna die if you're in the front lines>19, you exist in a quantum state between being good and bad>20, you're a tank>21, you're a god
>>98011722That's rough.I've played fighting men/fighters in every edition, and it felt like they made a funky "U". Great in OSR games, complete shit n 3e, and then 5e made them real good again. But, to be honest, the 5e games were mostly with very toothless DMs, so my experiences with it might be pretty skewed.
Why are OSR guys so mad at these threads and why are they so strict about what is and isnt OSR?
>>98011698NTA but the airships is what pulled me in. The construction rules were too fucking complicated honestly, but the ships were cool. It's also what got me into spelljammerOne of my personal favs is the Sind desert. It had this Elf /Gnoll culture that I really enjoyed. They lived under the desert in tunnels(my first encounter with the under dark concept) it was a blended culture that Just stoked my imagination
>>98011831No clue why they feel a need to attack everyone, they have an echo chamber. They just troll endlessly to try and kill any conversation that they disapprove of
>>98011831Lots of competing theories, and it's probably a few different motivations.Some are from a minority group within the OSR that believe OSR is all about "one true way" to play that's been largely rejected by the rest of the OSR community, and their whole philosophy depends on building an echo chamber because their ideas are actually fairly fragile. If people can ask "Why don't we do X instead?", it becomes very hard to demand "This is the one way to do it."There's also pretty strong signs that these guys who are trolling so hard are actually people who were banned from OSR subreddits, banned for brigading while shilling a game that's now banned from the major RPG and OSR subreddits. The timeline adds up, and they really have a weird attachment for that one game in particular.And some are just trolls at heart and can't do anything but troll.
>>98011817>>very toothless DMs, so my experiences with it might be pretty skewed.DM styles have changed over the years for sure. I don't think that is a d&d issue, but a shift in the wider gamer culture. I honestly think it does to what the ideas of fantasy is.For us who grew up in the 70s, 80s and 90s fantasy was gritty and grime. It was sword and sorcery, no matter whether books or movies. And this shaped how we view the game.Then Harry Potter became a huge thing. It got kids reading, but drove nerd culture in another direction. And it want alone, MMOs like warcraft were built off d&d ideas but went high and wide magic. So today the fantasy books and media are very different.It's just created a very different mindset.
>>98011908I agree it's a mix of trolls. There are between 3 and 6 of them at least. At lest one runs on European time. They have very distinctive posting styles. And at lest one is proud of getting banned.
>>98011919>For us who grew up in the 70s, 80s and 90s fantasy was gritty and grime.It's honestly nothing compared to where fantasy anime/manga has gone. Sure, there was dark fantasy anime in the 80's and 90's, but 00's on there's been almost a competition to see how gritty, gory, and psychologically traumatic they can make fantasy.In the West, horror and fantasy still are fairly separate categories, particularly with film. Horror is all about pushing the dark/gory/etc. shit as far as it can go, while fantasy is only given a few Biblo-jump-scares and spooky skeletons. It probably has to do with horror mostly being modern times, while fantasy being in the past.in the East, horror and fantasy have always blended into each other, and most of the fantasy genre of the historical past was essentially horror stories. So, while the west has horror basically kept in a cage and only allowed to drip out on occasion in other genres, in the East its a core component of their fantasy and has lead to an almost concerning amount of escalation in how dark they can make their fantasy stories.
>>98011980Ya know, you have a point there. I would not have thought of it but I am not a horror guy. It does show an interesting culture dynamic in how one keeps it separate and another integrates it. I do agree in the West horror fantasy is more a fringe thing
>>98011868>It had this Elf /Gnoll culture that I really enjoyed.
>>98011155>principa apocryphaLooking through it, it's not a bad document.
>>98011953>And at lest one is proud of getting banned.Lmao none of us has gotten banned over this. Do you still not get it?
>>98011831This is a pretty dumb question. Have you ever seen anybody ask why /4eg/ is "so strict about which edition is the fourth one"?
>>98011713It is requisite that you lurk further.
>>98011196Incorrect. You made up your revisionist definition right here, and we saw you do it in real time; it's never been used outside this board. Meanwhile, everyone understands that 2e is not OSR.
>>98012331OSR however is no an edition. It is a wide movement that arose in repose to 3e and Wotc stopping support for pre 3e D&D. It covers an incredibly wide series of game from pure up retro clones, to neoclones to ultra lite games that only vaguely look kinda like d&d.It never has been one edition or one system. Hell take a gander in the OSR archives. I just found one in there called Ambition & Avarice, which looks very interesting and I wanna dig into it. But bx or 1/2e it is not.
>>98011155If its playstyle you can easily apply that to wotc dnd. There's more 5e/osr compatible products on drivethru than just osr products.
>>98012390That's just a troll. Just ignore him.
>>98011181The fact you keep meeting people who disagree with you should tell you it is not the universal definition
>>98011558Said the retard who cries about fishfag without seeing the irony.
>>98012398The 5e/OSR products are either duel stats, two versions of the same product or system agnostic. You can't run OSR monsters or classes in 5e or vice versa
>>98012390That is incorrect. The pre-3e D&D thing is a fable that you invented yourself and keep reposting as a comical copypasta. Sorry, but please keep your revisionist slop to yourself from now on; there's an OSR general already and mods have told you directly not to tamper with it.
>>98012411>peoplejej
>>98012421
>>98012438My one and only repose to you troll. I am a different person and you are lying. I don't give a flying fuck about your safe space echo chamber and it's revisionist bullshit. Go back to it, this is not the osrg, this is an OSR thread. Fuck off with your bullshit.
>>98012444You're replying to one of them, idiot.
>>98011831These threads are made and purposefully filled with contrarian, conflicting, and incendiary posts just to piss off people so they reply and argue for days. This has been an on-going thing for weeks, and if it's not being made to spoof up some activity, it's being done entirely because OP is a huge faggot who thinks he's being funny by spamming this shit.
>>98012467There are two sides of trolls and they can both fuck off. I am just here to talk about gaming.
>>98012467Nou.
>>98012462You seem to have misunderstood something. Trolling is against the board rules, which includes posting rival generals to compete with the actual general. Your evident asshurt is not germane, and your ludicrous attempt to claim that this repeated thread isn't a general merely because it's shit is too transparent to pass even the most cursory examination.If you want to talk about the OSR and old-school gaming, do so in the OSR general or start a thread with a more specific topic within the same scope of the OSR. Otherwise, post a thread appropriate for the non-OSR game you wish to discuss, whether that's /2eg/ or a one-off Cairn thread.
>>98012476>OP is a huge faggot who thinks he's being funny by spamming this shit.No, he doesn't think he's funny, I have to correct you there. He's genuinely incredibly assravaged. He's malded hard in public and even posted one of his seethefails that started off this last bout of shitposting in /osrg/. His brutal autism just won't let him take the L and move on.
>>98012477If you genuinely want to talk about games, you should be aware that this is a troll thread posted by the board's greatest schizo, Fishfag.The actual /osrg/ can currently be found here:>>98004530 >>98004530 >>98004530 This is just a containment thread for the insane filled with samefagging, and for celebrating the eternal triumph of the BROSR.
>>98012476The only one getting pissed off is you, and you're the only guy trying to troll anyone.You have your /osrg/ hugbox. It's stuffed with all the dumb opinions you want to have, and no one harasses you about them because no goes there. You're just getting mad over people disagreeing with you, and the only thing you can do is cry about it like you're being bullied while you pretend you're the one doing the bullying.
>>98012522>The only one getting pissed off is you>proceeds to scream-cry for the rest of the post
And to get this back on topic, what new OSR system have you found recently? I found a new one to me last night going though the archive, I like reading new systems and Ideas and this one seemed interesting to me. It's called Ambition and avarice, and seems to be a mix of new and old school mechanics. I am just the first chapter in but skimmed it last night and it seems interesting.Everyone seems to have a d6 HD, but the classes are split between magical and mundane with the latter getting more options to make themselves better. A nice non standard race list and the same with classes. It seems neat anyhow
>>98012529>posts one of his "I lose" flagshttps://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/image/bSmftF6ymYl_kLYZVWcCZg/Thank you for that confirmation of your loss. Man, you lose quite a lot.
>>98012522See what I mean, >>98012476? He's angry as fuck. Asshole entirely blown out.>the /osrg/ is dying! It's dying, it's dying, it's dying!Wishful thinking won't save you, Fishfag.
>>98012545>If I declare that he's losing, that makes it true!See >>98012549 and thanks for helping bump your shitty troll thread off the board.
>>98012487Son you troll endlessly, the osrg isn't an OSR thread, you don't allow OSR talk, you allow only a small subset to be talked about.Hell if the OP didn't make them, I would make one because I wanna talk about OSR shit and that is not allowed in your damned echo chamber. Fuck off back to it
>>98012543>here's a game I didn't readWow, very organic, Anon! This discussion will make me a better DM.
>>98012543I spotted that game mentioned in that principa apocrypha thing. Always kind of concerned about the combo of trying to explain people about games and then pitching one, but I'm willing to at least give it the benefit of the doubt.
>>98012505No, that is the osrg, not an OSR thread. Fuck off back to it
>>98012543Not an OSR game, so it's off topic for this thread. Take it to /nsrg/.
>>98012563>Son you troll endlessly, the osrg isn't an OSR thread, you don't allow OSR talk, you allow only a small subset to be talked about.Incorrect. The OSR permits literally the entirety of the old-school renaissance/revival movement to be discussed. Absolutely all of it. Only your off-topic unelated games are disallowed.>Fuck off back to itNope! Since this is labeled an OSR thread we will continue to post here, and pointing out what the OSR is. That's the topic of this thread, after all; it may be a troll thread, but that's no reason for it not to stay on topic.
>>98012572Incorrect. That is the OSR general, which is the ongoing OSR thread where all OSR games can be discussed.Thank you for your help in getting rid of this troll thread off the board.
>>98012571I haven't read it yet, glanced over it last night and just reading the 1st chapter. Should points for layout and art though. Very good design on those front.I like reading systems, I read a lot of em. I tried to read dagger heart to but...no. it was kinda a PbtA game level of bounce my brain did not like lol.But at lest A&A is an OSR game and so on topic. I am getting the vin it pulls many of its mechanical ideas from 5e, but with an OSR lense, the small listed of broad, limited skills are more old school than new. Followers seem to be a thing and the alignment is a more sensible L/N/CSo we'll see
>>98012611>Should points for layout and art though. Very good design on those front.Yes, I too front actual. But what do you think of overflowing tables? Layout, or thick?
>>98012611>But at lest A&A is an OSR game and so on topic.No, sorry, that's wrong. And if it were, you could discuss it in /osrg/, which, remember, allows discussion of all OSR games: >>98004530
>>98012545>whenever someone mocks me it's somehow a loss for themLmao, that's a desperate attempt. Man, those pics must really chap your ass, huh?
A&A races. They seem split between civilized ( large and orginzed) and barbaric races(lack cultural cohesion or military power on a large scale. This is an interesting take.It means dark elves, dwarves, hobgoblins,gnomes and humans are the civilized people. Leaving elves, haflings, goblins, lizardfolk and orcs as the "barbarians". Never seen Elves and halfings placed there.The right write up are about a page in size, with art but the mechanics are only a small box. Dwarves get "+50 pounds to encumbrance weight and max carrying capacity" for example. That's it, no stone cutting or anything, they are just really good at carrying heavy shit it seems.
>>98012501>>98012549I stand corrected. I guess it would take a severe level of outraged autism to keep making threads like this.
>>98012331I dont think 4e players would sperg like this if someone made a thread like "4e and affiliated systems are great and we could expand more on them"
>>98012683Sounds mostly just like Lawful vs. Chaotic. Weird that they went with "barbaric", but I guess "granola-eating hippies" is worse.
>>98012611>the small listed of broad, limited skills are more old school than new.I'm a sucker for a good skill list.Key word is good though. I've seen way too many that are overly long, or extremely lopsided with some skills being vital while several others are borderline useless.The OSR-but-with-5e-mechanics pseudo-subgenre is chockfull of bad skill lists, probably because 5e's list itself is pretty bad. It's still much better than 4e's and a dump truck load better than 3e's, but I really don't know if trying to keep refining the 3e system down will ever produce a worthwhile skill system.
>>98012732It does sound like that, but what else is civilized vs barbaric? I think they are going with a set tone here. I am going though the classes and one of em is a cultist who gets boons for actually sacrificeing people to his demi god.I am finding the classes interesting at lest,vall have following options starting at level 1
>>98012785Let's see they have,Breakage STRClimbing DEXDirection WISDominance CHAExamination WISForaging DEXKnowledge INTLeadership CHAMechanics INTStealth DEXI think those are self explanatory other than dominance, which is controlling Magic and magical critters. They work pretty much like 5e in that you can always use them, but set classes or races might get a +2 to those rolls
>>98012611>>98012683>>98012732Never liked D&D's going with L/N/C.Especially after reading Elric.>turns out, the cosmic forces of Law and Chaos are both just Evil>also remaining neutral is also Evil but also being cowardly
Hey all, what's your favourite monster from ACKS II? Mine's the Treeherder. Treeherders are sometimes sought out for advice, because they are among the most learned naturalists in the world. They have forgotten more about flora and fauna than human sages have yet learned.
>>98012879Galdrtré are also very cool. They are sapient and communicative, but their voices are indistinguishable from leaves rustling or branches waving except to other plants or those able to speak with plants. They are wise in wood-lore and sometimes consulted by shamans.
>>98012815I don't like Alignment at all, I think it causes issues you never have in games without alignment. However, that is better than the 9 part alignment system.fuck that.
Ah troll 3 has arrived
>>98012879>>98012886While we're on the topic, do you think Treeherders and Galdrtrés would allow Striges to roost in their branches? Striges (singular Strix) are the ACKS II equivalent of D&D Stirges, which were almost certainly a misspelling to begin with.
>>98012889Couldn't agree more. Arbiter of Worlds has a great video on Alignment. I unironically watched it more than once and took notes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_eJrPS59I
>>98012785>I'm a sucker for a good skill list.You should definitely check out the ACKS II proficiencies, then. They're really well made and integrate perfectly with non-classed NPC specialists.
>>98012543>what new OSR system have you found recently?I'm really looking forward to Before All Others.
>>98011502Ever run a server?Perfect logic on paper rarely survives first contact with the players. If you treat the rules like immutable code with no "dev" in the room, the whole campaign crashes the moment someone does something the designers didn't anticipate. You aren't looking for a calculator; you're looking for an admin.The DM is the fail-safe. A system can be as "elegant" as it wants, but without a human to patch the edge cases in real-time, it’s just a countdown to a soft-lock. You don't need a flawless engine—you need a robust toolkit that lets the DM troubleshoot on the fly without the whole session grinding to a halt. Systems that try to automate everything usually just end up making the inevitable bugs harder to fix.
>>98011502>>98012939Spot on.Hard-coded rules are fragile because they can't account for "player chaos." When you try to build a system that accounts for every variable, you just end up with a bloated, unreadable mess that breaks under its own weight.Better to have a lean framework and a DM who knows how to debug the narrative. At the end of the day, no amount of pre-written text replaces the "human hotfix" when things go sideways. Systems should be designed to be interpreted, not just executed.
>>98012945Exactly.To stay in the metaphor, it’s like trying to compile a sandwich using only the napkin. You can have the most optimized bread-logic in the world, but if the mustard starts leaking into the kernel, the whole lunch crashes.The DM isn't just the coder; they’re the one holding the mop. You don't build a better boat by teaching the water how to behave—you just make sure the captain knows which end of the bucket to hold when the ocean inevitably develops a syntax error. Systems shouldn't be "perfect," they should just be buoyant enough to survive the splash.
>>98012889I like Good and Evil. They simplify so much, and that really helps with games.I play with a few people who always play evil characters. Psychotic little shits that murder, torture, betray people's trust, just fuck all sorts of people over, and the reason they have fun doing it is because they're "Good" people doing this to "Evil" people, so morality is on their side.
>>98012896Ummm, I'll have you know all of /osrg has been just one guy since 2012 before it existed.
>>98012951Exactly.You can script the water and the lures, but you can’t automate the way a player handles the rod. If the rules are too rigid, the line snaps the second someone tries a move that isn't in the documentation. You need that human oversight to turn a glitch into a catch.But the real work starts once the fish is out of the water. That’s where the smoker comes in. You can have the most optimized code in the world, but it won't give you that perfect, hickory-finished flavor that players actually pay for. The DM’s job is to keep that wood fire consistent and the temperature steady so you can turn those raw encounters into something worth selling at the market. At the end of the day, people aren't here for the code; they're here for the smoked results.
>>98012952I'm so glad you've found a way to make complex human morality as intellectually demanding as a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. It must be truly exhausting to navigate a world where 'murder' and 'torture' require more than a color-coded justification. Truly, a pinnacle of narrative depth.
>>98012953Don't feed the troll, post about games.
Session report>Be me, Forever DM>Prep "The Abyssal Grotto" for weeks>Boss is a literal god of the deep>Party reaches the shoreline>Druid asks about the local ecosystem>Describe the "shimmering silver-fin trout" to add flavor>Big mistake>Thief starts inquiring about market value of exotic meat>Mage uses Lower Water to beach the entire school>Under the Ranger's guidance, they spend the session building a smokehouse instead of exploring>Ignore the world-ending ritual to corner the dried-protein market>BBEG is literally 200 yards away>Party is arguing about overhead and salt pricesMFW the campaign is now a fishing sim
>>98012434Skill issue.
>>98013007Nice! Here's mine>be me, DM>spend weeks prepping epic eldritch dungeonswitch to XP-for-treasure system to "reward player skill">players enter first room>thief asks if the brass doorknobs are worth gold>"I guess? Like 1gp in scrap each."session ruined>spend 4 IRL hours DM'ing them unscrewing hinges and prying off handles>they ignore the world-ending ritual in the next room>they ignore the boss's monologue to check if his throne is plated or solid>return to town with a wheelbarrow of door hardware>"How much XP for 60lbs of brass, DM?">mfw the apocalypse begins because they wanted to be "Knob-Goblin" millionaires>mfw they ask if the town's evacuation bells are made of bronze, and if bronze is worth its weight in cp
>>98012896You've been here the whole time.
Funny how fishfag has completely given up on the charade that he's an OSR/2e fan, and is now having conversations with himself only about 5e.
>>98012975I call it like I see it.The idea of "ends justify the means" is pretty concretely the most popular adage employed by all the most evil people of all time.It's why Jesus's "turn the other cheek" business is so profound and world-changing, because it prescribes what's essentially the one way we've got of breaking the endless pattern of violence and evil that humanity is trapped in. But, that's not any fun. It actually sucks ass. It feels bad. That's why, for a game, most people want to play some shade of evil person.The healers carry maces, the builders are making fortresses, the historians are looting and the protectors are loaded up on weapons and kill spells. No one is playing Saint Justine, the lovable lady that runs the soup kitchen and helps tend the community garden, they're playing Lord Badass, killer of the vile and correctional-rapist.And, having clear "this guy is good, don't rape him" and "this lady is evil, go ahead" guidelines lets people have fun without that cloying guilt that they should be experiencing but would ruin the fun if they did.
>>98013057Anon, I'll keep it real.The "ends justify the means" trope is the go-to excuse for every monster in history.That's why "love thy enemy" is such a massive curveball, because it's the only actual exit ramp from the constant loop of revenge that keeps us all stuck.But, that's a total buzzkill. It's miserable. It's work. That's why, in a sandbox, everyone picks the villain path.The doctors carry poisons, the architects build dungeons, the librarians are burning scrolls and the saints are packing heat and fireballs. No one's playing Sister Mary, the sweet gal who knits sweaters and feeds the stray cats, they're playing Baron Blood, slayer of the weak and god-king of the ruins.And, having obvious "this kid is innocent, leave him" and "this guy is trash, light him up" rules lets people cut loose without the heavy conscience that they'd normally carry but would wreck the game if they actually felt.
>>98013065To elaborate: D&D 5e’s alignment system turns ethics into a utility tool. By labeling monsters "Chaotic Evil," the game grants a moral permit to bypass the "turn the other cheek" philosophy in favor of the "ends justify the means" power fantasy. It replaces the heavy lifting of true grace with the satisfying d20 crunch of a Smite, letting players be "heroes" while acting like monsters.Are we really to believe that that's what good is?
>>98013080NTA, but it's ad&ds alignment system it was just kept as it's one of those stupid sacred cows
>>98012889Have you heard of Exalted's Virtue subsystem? It's a set of "stats" that define how invested a character is in each of four values, complete with having checks called to act against them and leaning into them for Willpower. I've thought occasionally about using that as the starting point for an Alignment replacement through something like Haidt's moral foundations theory.>>98012975Black-and-white morally-entangled power systems are pretty common in fantasy fiction as "lubrication" for the narrative, keeping the focus on the core in a way that translates VERY well to maintaining momentum in a combat-heavy TTRPG campaign. Have it embedded in the system does result in significant constraints, and trying to reinvent nuance within it has always gone poorly, but it's stuck around for reasons beyond inertia.>>98013080>Are we really to believe that that's what good is?It's relatively accurate to the "heroism" conceptions of most of the periods it keys to compared to the arsenals or mysticism. The Paladin and Cleric are rather significantly modeled on outright holy war stuff, Christianity's conflict-mitigation does not extend to outright pacifism. To say nothing of the Barbarian and Druid keying to INCREDIBLY thoroughly "War Is Glorious" cultures.
Trolls have a hard time understanding what organic conversation looks like.
As an outsider to all this, can someone explain to me why the /OSRG/ needs to go to the extent of excluding specifically DnD 2e if the commonly accepted definition of OSR supposedly already excludes DnD 2e? I guess 3e isn’t and everybody knows that, but it isn’t mentioned. I only come to /tg/ for /btg/ but I’ve been seeing a lot of these threads when I’m bored browsing at work. Wikipedia and the rest of the internet seem to agree with OP on the 2e thing.Willing to post time stamped pictures of my battletech minis when I get home from work in a few hours if that gets me an honest answer and not just accusations of being “fishfag”.
>>98013111Because 2e is not OSR.
>>98013109>>Exalted's Virtue subsystemI know of Exalted but never looked into it. Kinda sounds like how Pendragons system worked from how it was explained to me.
>>98013117Ok, but why?
>>98013065>>98013057I'ma level with y'all The ends do justify the means if your ends are Good enough. Jesus' actual statements and insurrectionist war against the Romans was the hard miserable work that felt bad. He died. But they won long term. TTRPGs aren't about the long term or realistic consequences. The classes carry weapons to fight monsters because that's the game world. They can become strong enough to defeat whatever they want. No one is playing level one to stay at level one. They're playing to get Good enough to kill anything they don't like and do what they want. And, having obvious pearl clutching nogames like yourselves and actual gamehavers lets anons see who's full of shit and who has touched dice.
>>98013111You've been lied to. Any game can be osr, its a style of play. You can run WoD or Shadowrun as osr.
>>98013111Well, there is a tiny subsect of OSR players that think OSR is only 1e or BX, they grew out of 1e players that hated 2e. They have left most OSR sites because they are very rabid in Thier ideology Here it seems they got control of the osrg at some point, no clue when IDC. But now they not only gate keep Thier own echo chamber, they troll and attack any thread that dares bring up 2e or OSR games.Now two sides endlessly war and call everyone fish fag as the rest of us just wanna talk about fucking games.Hope that helps
>>98013124Because it violates all of the core mechanics of first decade D&D, by omitting them or botching them. In fact, it was written as a huge "fuck you" to Gygax-style D&D. DM advice in AD&D 2e is all about running what today we would call a "railroading" or "storygaming" campaign, based on stories written by the DM and character arcs.First decade D&D is much closer to a wargame, in which the DM is purely a referee, and the players are allowed to do pretty much whatever they want.It was a game by wargamers and for wargamers, to be played in wargaming clubs, with adversarial play and a ratio of up to 50 players per DM.In fact, the very first edition of D&D defined it as a system for fantasy wargaming campaigns. Picrel.
>>98013124Because they hate it. It's fundamentally the same system. But they are caught up in behind the scene crap most gamers don't give a fuck about.You can look up the history of the OSR movement, it's pre 3e games, that includes 2e. The trolls just can't accept that reality.
>>98013124This series of articles outlines a lot of the origins of the OSR movement. It causes a significant amount of asshurt from a few local trolls. https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/02/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-i.html
>>98013124Notice how you got: - one reply with an explanation >>98013154- two assmangled replies of smears and insults >>98013148 >>98013160
>>98013124As best I've been able to put together from the trolls and raving lunatics, it's because it does not lock in OSR as the enshrined default in favor of actually trying to utilize the system's design space, consequently resulting in few "AD&D 2e" optional rules or supplements fitting the playstyle well in TSR's efforts to expand the D&D market that ultimately backfired with playerbase self-segregation and switching to more dedicated systems with less legacy rule friction (just look at all the shit Ravenloft has to do to make gothic horror work).
>>98013111Honest answer: the original OSR movement that formed circa 2006 was specifically about providing support for D&D as it was originally intended to be played by its creators. It was not a vague "movement" about playing slightly old D&D (remember that 2nd ed only disappeared 6 years before the OSR kicked off), or all old games ever.That "old-school" style vanished from TSR official support after 1983. As such, late 1st ed AD&D isn't even included in the OSR, let alone 2nd edition--the edition that encoded all the bad habits and design choices of late 1st and made them even worse.To someone who's never played any of this stuff, 2nd ed looks very similar to a proper old-school edition: negative AC, no prestige/modern classes, the classic saves, etc. To someone who's actually played old-school, 2nd ed offers no support for that style of play, and mechanically and thematically actively undercuts it: moving gold for XP to optional status in favour of murderhoboing and story goals, removing all dungeoneering advice, messing with the dungeoneering rules, encouraging heroic quest play.Unfortunately, a) the broad concept of the OSR (forgotten design spaces, buzzwords like "player agency") became the new design hotness and was rapidly shoved into areas it was never intended (pic related), and b) the internet mutated from the forums the OSR was born in (now dead) to blogs (now dead) to G+ (now dead) to social media hellscapes with terrible search (reddit, facebook, discord), supported all the while by online businesses that allow you to tag anything you want as "OSR", no matter how inappropriate. This game of telephone has resulted in people thinking that the OSR is literally anything people call OSR, a far cry from the original, tightly-bound thing it was when it started out 20 years ago./osrg is interested only in the OSR in its original form, and is annoyed by the host of latecomers who insist on forcing their late / memed definitions of the OSR into there.
>>98013204This is demonstrably wrong. You have to go out of your way to pretend C&C didn't exist or that OSR discussions didn't predate and encourage C&C to be made.You've got nothing but a bullshit "how do I make OSRIC be first" lie that came right out of the people who made OSRIC, and do not represent the OSR or even anything more than a small minority within the OSR. These are FACTS. Facts you try to deny, and in the face of that you've even gone so far as to try and pretend that you can define OSR as "my mental gymnastics to try and exclude 2e".You have your definition. You have your /osrg/. Now, fuck off back there, and quit trying to stop people from using the definition they prefer because it actually makes sense, unlike your insane revisionist version.Fuck if that's you being honest, you're honestly an idiot.
>>98013204You know the original OSR movements included 2e. Why lie about this? The first published OSR game was a fucking neo clone for God's sake. It's never been 1883vor older, it's always been pre 3e. Many of us were fucking there Stop lying.
>>98013241>This is demonstrably wrong.Your schizo alt-history that you've been repeating obsessively multiple times a day since 2024 is not a proof, fishfag.
>>98013241>>98013248lol fishfag seething over facts. Too bad your alt-history is totally unsupported.
>>98013248>You know the original OSR movements included 2e.Bullshit.>Stop lying.Take your meds. (You) only discovered that the OSR existed in 2024, and you've been posing as the OSR historian since.
>>98013204Not only is this wrong, even the /osrg/ thought it was wrong, up until a janny-enforced hijack changed the /osrg/ last October and most of the /osrg/ left.The /osrg/ is now less than half the people it was just a few months ago, and the trolls remaining in it keep lying about what the /osrg/ used to be or what was discussed inside it, despite the archive showing that they're lying.These are trolls with an agenda.They're fucking passionate about it.Like, spending several days screeching at threads passionate. The bad kind of passionate.
>>98013277Hi fishfag. Boy, this one really got under your skin, didn't it.
>>98013277>up until a janny-enforced hijackYou're insane.
>>98013277>up until a janny-enforced hijack changed the /osrg/ last October and most of the /osrg/ leftThis is really crossing a line of lies and insanity. Report this troll.
>>98013284Let's be real for a second. There's some weird moderation going on, which is kinda why you feel so invincible while you're breaking some really basic rules against spamming/flooding/trolling.
Take your off topic "what is OSR" to the thread made for that topic>>98013294
>>98013297The only weird thing is that you haven't been permabanned in 2024 when you first showed up, fishfag.
>>98013297They will hit us with warning for reporting those trolls to. Even reporting the posts where they outright say they are trolling It's clear at lest one more is protecting them
>>98013303Gotcha. I guess anyone who keeps trying to argue is going to be just one of those trolls and can be safely ignored.
>>98013303Another "OSR" thread? What's your endgame here, fishfag, take over the whole board with tens of schizo trolling threads?
>>98013318>>98013303You're still spending a lot of time engaging with the trolls you're ignoring. Far more than playing or talking about your gameplay.
>>98013326I made the other thread because, while I don't mind a good argument,bits not the topic here. That thread is to argue or debate that topic.Unless someone's goal is to troll and shit up OSR threads with pointless arguments, why would they be upset over making a thread were those discussions are the topic?
>>98013366>avoids the question again Same as it ever was.
>>98012794>It does sound like that, but what else is civilized vs barbaric?The core conflict of ACKS' Auran Empire is civilized vs. barbaric peoples.
>>98013204Let's say this is true, and I'll admit that there's a lot here I disagree with. You say yourself there is an earlier definition of OSR, and a later definition of OSR. 1. Why should /osrg/ adhere to that earlier definition when there's obviously at least a decent number of users who want to post in there who adhere to the later definition2. Why should /osrg/ stake claim to the right to define OSR for all of /tg/ and bury any alternative threads whenever someone makes one with "OSR" in the title while using the broader definition?
>>98012924Very good suggestion, Anon! And for an OSR game too, unlike Anon's post.
>>98013124>>98013124To try to be as neutral as possible, D&D started as something much more steeped in wargaming as a tradition than what we now call "roleplaying". Acting and storytelling were part of the game, but the focus was more explicitly on the dungeoncrawling, monster fighting, and looting. Think something kind of like Diablo, but with much more emphasis on level design and logistical problem solving. A lot of people into these games feel this is exemplified by the rule where each gold piece you obtain grants you one experience point. This is how the first edition of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons works, as well as Basic Dungeons and Dragons (these were two separate product lines at the time). Now, pretty quickly people saw this foundation and wanted to shift it to something that's more focused on stories and play acting because they found those aspects of the game to be more interesting. Over time, TSR obliged and put out more content for first edition oriented towards that style of play, like with the Dragonlance modules.By the time 2nd edition came around (after a bunch of drama involving the game's rights holders), this more roleplaying focused style was by far the most popular way of playing the game, so the new game oriented itself around this. The rules themselves weren't changed very significantly between 1e and 2e, though purists disagree and say the changes that are made have significant implications. However, 2e's guidance of how to play and run the game were altered to reflect a less dungeoncrawling focused campaign. Some effort was given in 2e to maintain the rules that allowed for that style of play, but they weren't prioritized, with purists claiming that as to the game's detriment. To use gold-based-experience as an example again, 2e relegates this to an optional rule, and the vast majority of the adventure content released for 2e assumes that you are not using this rule.
>>98012962Kekkkk
>>98012988Nobody is posting about games in this thread, newfag. Lurk moar.
>>98013007This happened to me once.>agree to run game to relieve regular DM>prep Isle of Dread>describe how as the players wade ashore from shipwreck, a golden beach stretches out between the ocean and a like of coconut palms>big mistake>players start cutting down palm trees and salvaging timber from the ship to build a jetty, a smokehouse and a tiki lodge>disregard module in favor of trying to create superior lures>all the player conversation is about the fishing minigame of Sonic Adventure>mfw
>>980134142e fans say that the preservation of these rules allow for a dungeoncrawling focused campaign that is well supported by the rules, and the rules similarities meaning a broad compatibility with Basic D&D, Advanced D&D 1e, and various retroclones. They claim that these factors mean that 2e discussion should be allowed in the OSR General thread.1e purists say that the 2e rules changes that are made significantly orient the game away from dungeoncrawling focus, and that the advice in the 2e books shift the game to much more roleplaying focused (and thus shittier) playstyle, even if you use it to run a classic dungeoncrawl sandbox. Because of this, they say 2e should not be allowed in the OSR General. On top of this, there's months of trolling, samefagging, spamming, inconsistent reasoning, and general shitflinging that have muddled the waters into the current situation, where basically any thread on the topic devolves into a flamewar.
>>98013055Just further proof that he absolutely doesn't give a single shit about games, only derailing /osrg/ (and is hopping mad that he keeps failing). Notice how he immediately stopped chatGPTing about Spelljammer the moment the last thread hit bump limit? Such an authentic conversation, kek
>>98013406>1. Why should /osrg/ adhere to that earlier definition when there's obviously at least a decent number of users who want to post in there who adhere to the later definitionWhy should the original founders of the club change because new people with ignorant ideas want it to change? It's incumbent on newcomers to adapt to the existing culture, not on the culture to shift to fit the false concepts of newcomers. As the attached picture in the previous post mentioned, old-school D&D died in large part because a host of new players joined after it became the hot new fad. Then, the OSR was watered down in many places to a meaningless soup of "anything goes" ... because a host of new players joined after it became the hot new fad. Why is there any surprise whatsoever that /osrg regulars are hostile to this anything-but-theoretical entryism?>2. Why should /osrg/ stake claim to the right to define OSR for all of /tg/ and bury any alternative threads whenever someone makes one with "OSR" in the title while using the broader definition?/osrg has no problem with the NSR and /nsrg, with /todd, and even with 2eg. All it has ever wanted is to be left alone to talk about what it has defined as on-topic, based on the actual history of the movement. There are a host of spaces on the internet to talk about the meaningless, watered-down "everything I call OSR is OSR" later variant. Alternatively, anyone can make one here. Those spaces always die here, because the /tg user base is small and the vague kumbaya "OSR" has nothing to actually discuss in a unified manner.The problem is when someone with an agenda (i.e. fishfag) comes in determined to hijack /osrg with fake "OSR" threads filled with his samefagging and alt-histories because he was run out of the place after trying to hijack the place.If a userbase genuinely existed that wanted to talk about OSR-adjacent and vaguely old games (theoretically a very broad remit), todd wouldn't have died 50 times.
Now back on ISR topics, I have started reading the classes for A&A. Only a few so far but they each have flavor and henchmen .Let's look at two, the brigade and the ConjurersAll classes seem to get a few things. Weapon Proficiencies, expertise, and identify ability and followed.The brigade is built around backstabbing. It's a simple double damage, requires him to be concealed and at 7th level the victim makes a con save it does, no matter the damage. He has the following Weapon proficiencies clubs, crossbows and spears He gets a +2 to identify gods and Thier prices, and as a mundane class he gets 3 points he can use to, add 1 HP, as a weapon Proficiencies, for 2 points he gain get a +1 to a skill and for 3 points a +1 saving throw or +1 attack bonus. He also starts with a 100 gp a +2 to reactions from criminals, a +2 to escape rope and +4 to escape manacles. You also get a bandit follower, every level you can get a new one or improve one you have. You can also send them off to be, well bandits and make you money. The Conjurer is a caster, seems to go up to level 7 spells. No cantrips it's big thing is for 20gp it can make a binding circle, which it can sunmon things into, dominate and try to make it serve you. But you have to keep dominating it, if you fail it no longer has to obey you...but isn't u summoned. They get a +2 to identifying symbols, dunes and glyphs. Can use Clubs, Daggers, and Quarterstaves and can't use armor. They can also trade a spell slot in on level up for a +2 Dominice.They get followers two, little imps called "pucks" they obey you, can't really fight, and you can talk to them over any distance or pisses them like a familiar. But if they die( they have 1 HP!) you lose 1d4 Hps. You can make more at every uneven level for 500 go each. But if someone gets a few of them, that can be very dangerous
>>98013490>The problem is when someone with an agenda (i.e. fishfag)"Fishfag" is anti-ACKS, not pro-AD&D 2e. Insisting on this further highlights your willful ignorance of history.>If a userbase genuinely existed that wanted to talk about OSR-adjacent and vaguely old games (theoretically a very broad remit), todd wouldn't have died 50 times.How many of those threads did you go into solely to yell that their thread's subject was not OSR like you have been these ones?
>>98013007Clearly the only solution is to have the BBEG catch a bigger fish than any of them, which'll lead to the players declaring a blood feud.So, fishing posting is now a thing is it?
>>98013521Hi fishfag.
>>98013057>>98013065>>98013139Boys, let me be frank.The classic "ends justify the means" motif is fairly obviously the standard fig leaf used by every tyrant in the annals.Which is why Christ's admonition to "repay evil with good" flips the script: it's basically the only way out of the infinite self-sustaining cycle of brutality and retribution in which we're all held captive.But, whate's the joy in that? In reality, it's a huge bummer. Pure suffering. That's why, during fantastic adventures, people typically cut loose by playing some type of bad guy.The physicians carry knives, the engineers are placing redoubts, the scribes are erasing ancient parchments and the guardians are bristling with ordnance. No one's playing Tabitha the Beguine, the wonderful woman in charge of the homeless shelter and the canned food drive, they're playing Count Savage, trampler of the abject and eater of babies.And, having blatant "our boy here is solid, don't touch him" and "this bitch is a witch, fire away" directions lets people enjoy themselves wthout the weight of responsibility that they ought to be feeling but would crash the session if they really had it.
>>98013490>It's incumbent on newcomers to adapt to the existing culture, not on the culture to shift to fit the false concepts of newcomers. Then why did you change the OP text in order to try and enforce a new version of the /osrg/ that had not previously existed?You are trying to pretend you were the engrained status quo, and yet you found it neccesary to change the OP in order to... let's see..."shift to fit the false concepts of newcomers."We've got archive receipts that show when you changed it, along with the debates that show people in the /osrg/ not agreeing with your changes. If you think that you are in the right here, then why act so threatened by other OSR threads? Is it because you think that they will prove to be more popular and thus undermine all your efforts to change the /osrg/?
>>98013111>As an outsider to all this, can someone explain to me why the /OSRG/ needs to go to the extent of excluding specifically DnD 2e if the commonly accepted definition of OSR supposedly already excludes DnD 2e?In short, because there's an extremely insistent troll (who made this thread, among others) trying to force it in there through the sheer power of autism. He's admitted to a mod that he's only doing this because not enough other posters like 2e, so he doesn't get to talk about 2e if he doesn't force it into unrelated conversations. The general has had to respond by being more and more explicit about the correct definition of OSR so as not to confuse newfags such as yourself.
>>98013121I've also heard about [non-OSR system]! It sounded to me like it was similar to [other system I don't actually have any experience of].
>>98013148>Thier
/btg/ tourist again here, thank for the different explanations. I will continue to occasionally enjoy the shitflinging.Though I will note, I don’t see why there can’t be a 2e inclusive OSRG alongside the OG one, same as there’s a UB excluding MTG general alongside the umbrella one. See what lives and dies on its own merit, seems like so far the MTG-UB general has been thriving.Fuck Wizards of the Coast btw.
>>98013549Dude, you call everyone who disagrees with you fishfag. Hell I started an OSR thread to talk about it myself as your echo chamber is too restricted. You think everyone is one troll as you yourself troll threads
>>98013549>He's admitted to a mod that he's only doing this because not enough other posters like 2eProof
>>98013160>You can look up the history of the OSR movementYou mean like this very well written history here? >>98013163Huh, looks like it contradicts you on point after point! Crazy.
>>98013565>>I don’t see why there can’t be a 2e inclusive OSRG alongside the OGThat is because you are reasonable. Every time we try the trolls arrive
>>98013536Well, fishfag, as you may remember (or may not: who knows what kinds of anti-psychotics you're constantly dosed with), your constant willfull misinterpretations of the previous OP--which was crystal clear to anyone who wasn't operating in bad faith (as you were)--finally prompted the general to change it by community consensus as a way of stopping your legalist attempts to topic-shift the general to 2e posting by pretending the old OP said what it didn't.Hilariously, you being the avatar of Retard Shi Huangdi actually brought about the very thing you were so desperate to avoid. I always chuckle at that whenever I see you seething about the OP change.
>>98013576No, not this one guys revisionist history you take as holy script. Son, you can Google this. Many folks have shown you but you just point to this with circular reasoning
>>98013577Even the mods told (You) explicitly not to create hijacked /osrg/ threads, fishfag. Proof: >>98013569
>>98013204Lmao, look at all the seething replies you got to this post. That's how you know you did good, Anon. Four absolutely assmad malds, and all from the same guy too.Your pic related is great as well, a classic.
>>98013241>Now, fuck off back there, and quit trying to stop people from using the definition they preferNope, never. This will not stop until you give in or fuck off. If this is an OSR thread, then the correct definition of OSR applies here, and we're going to stay here and talk about that.
>>98013565>Though I will note, I don’t see why there can’t be a 2e inclusive OSRG alongside the OG one, same as there’s a UB excluding MTG general alongside the umbrella one.Mostly because "Fishfag spent 18 months trolling our thread, time he had some of his own medicine the fucking cunt."Maybe in three years he can have his thread, two days for every one he spent being a cocksucker previously.Schadenfreude aside, it's because he starts every thread with 'Those mean cultist cunts over in /osrg/ and their BrOSR radical communist nigger gangster god won't have sent Bill the King after me with Air Looms for daring to speak THA TOOF'. He's got so many options for threads he could make, /nusr/, /todd/, just an outright /2eg/, he makes these threads because it's an attempt to coup /osrg/, if this thread ever gained legs he'd start reporting how 'The fake general' needs to go. Oh and of course because again, fuck him
>>98013590Not I son, not everyone is one guy
>>98013614>Mostly because "Fishfag spent 18 months trolling our thread, time he had some of his own medicine the fucking cunt."Once again, fishfag is anti-ACKS, not pro-AD&D 2e
>>98013614>nusrY'all troll everyone and call everyone one guy. It's lunacy
>>98013277LMAOOONow THIS is pod crazy!
>>98013565>Though I will note, I don’t see why there can’t be a 2e inclusive OSRG alongside the OG one, same as there’s a UB excluding MTG general alongside the umbrella one.It's been tried. And it always founders on the fact that, despite fishfag's insistence that there's a legion of posters just like him, every time such a thread that doesn't have "OSR" in the title is made, it dies due to lack of posting. Hence why he's trying to co-opt the name.As a lapsed /btger, maybe I can give some context. Imagine if Vroom Vroom reappeared (btg's favourite troll circa 2013-2016 or so) and started up /btg+ alongside /btg, and his OP text was "Battletech is a game of Zoids and MechWarrior Dark Age and the movie Pacific Rim and anything with robots in it, as anyone who knows the history of Battletech knows". You'd expect perhaps some pushback.
>>98013625Once again, you fool no one, fishfag.
>>98013636>>And it always founders on the fact that,My experience here is OSR threads for because of you trolls. No one else. Look at the last two fucking threads baby time folks get a conversation going you troll the living shit out of the threads to kill it.You deserve your made up boogie man trolling your echo chamber
>>98013585>willfull misinterpretations of the previous OPThat's literally what you've done. You've reinterpreted an OP that never excluded games and then went out of your way to rewrite it when you were out-argued.How the fuck do you think you can sit on a high horse when the receipts show you're actually just the catcher behind it, just completely full of shit?>finally prompted the general to change it by community consensus A bold lie. One you insist on to this day by calling everyone fishfag even when its clear that far more than just one person disagreeing with you.You've lied about the concensus, lied about not changing the OP, lied about pretty much everything, and somehow you think anyone is ever going to believe anything you say?
And the uno cards again. Every accusation is a confession with fish and his inbred hillybilly brigade.
What is and isn't OSR to discussion goes here. You can take your history of OSR and fishfag fights there too >>98013294
>>98013636>And it always founders on the fact that, despite fishfag's insistence that there's a legion of posters just like him, every time such a thread that doesn't have "OSR" in the title is made, it dies due to lack of posting.Firstly, again, fishfag is your side of narrow OSR definition. Secondly, the only reason these threads appear to be reaching bump limit is your autistic railing against any implication that AD&D 2e on the full-system level could ever possibly be considered OSR no matter any receipts of such pre-dating your own position.>As a lapsed /btger, maybe I can give some context. Imagine if Vroom Vroom reappeared (btg's favourite troll circa 2013-2016 or so) and started up /btg+ alongside /btg, and his OP text was "Battletech is a game of Zoids and MechWarrior Dark Age and the movie Pacific Rim and anything with robots in it, as anyone who knows the history of Battletech knows". You'd expect perhaps some pushback.MechWarrior Dark Age specifically would be an accurate analogy for your position, as it is part of the IP, but a better one would be shitfits about Alpha Strike.>>98013644I will continue to associate the name with the moron who threw a bitchfit about ACKS rule accretion successfully covering all the pertinent details of a random tangent, and no amount of trying to associate it with the one who gave the example to conflate with all attempts at a broader meaning of OSR than pure dungeon-crawling will change my mind.
>>98013324I don't think he really has a plan, it's more like insistent Tourettes-like shitloss, an autistic tic he can't hold back. Like, just look at the fact he posted another one of his retarded "throwdown" threads while the previous one is already totally active in the catalog. It's flat-out threadspamming. If he were operating on any kind of a rational basis he wouldn't be doing this.
>>98013366>Unless someone's goal is to troll and shit up OSR threads with pointless arguments, why would they be upset over making a thread were those discussions are the topic?Exactly, so why would someone try to post about 2e in this, an OSR thread? No reason to be upset that OSR is the topic rather than 2e, since they could just make a 2e thread whenever.
>>98013636>It's been tried. And it always founders on the fact that, despite fishfag's insistence that there's a legion of posters just like him, every time such a thread that doesn't have "OSR" in the title is made, it dies due to lack of postingWrong. They die because of your presence.People don't want to be in a thread with you. You're poison. That's why they left the /osrg/ and keep making new threads, only to have you follow after them every single time.There's never been a OSR thread you didn't appear in, not even those dumbly named /todd/ ones, not even those /2eg/ ones that were specifically dedicated to a game you hate. You would post there always with your same dead-eyed try-hard posts, and that's enough to drive any real person away.You can't stop chasing after real people. And, you can't stop driving them away, eventually killing the thread when people realize the only ones bumping it are the guys the thread was made to specifically avoid. And, with your job done, you then leave it to die and gloat about how unpopular that thread must have been after your glowing endorsements and cringe-inducing posts within.People don't want your endorsements. People actually seem to prefer that you reject a thread's existence, because that seems to indicate there's something right with it.
>>98013636It’s funny you mentioned MW:DA because there’s currently an anon pushing it and the dark age era in general on there. He doesn’t really troll for engagement or write in an exceptionally annoying way so I don’t mind desu.
>>98013756lol, fishfag seethingYes, the nefarious /osrg posters follow people to the new threads, which is why they always die from ... no one posting in them, and they trolled them by ... supporting them. Brilliant logic that only the finest retards at LobotomyCorp could come up with.
>>98013602>derp.
>>98013256404 facts, fish, or thoughts not found.
>>98013521>"Fishfag" is anti-ACKS, not pro-AD&D 2e.They're the same guy (you).
>>98013818What's so hard for you to understand?The threads you endorsed had you posting in them and doing that fake discussion thing you do, which is what most people were trying to avoid in the first place. It'd be like a strip club endorsed and frequented by the Amish; it's pretty guaranteed that there's not going to be a lot of good titty there, probably not even any good ankle.Meanwhile, the threads that upset you, even without your trolling, have always been incredibly lively, with people more than happy to have a discussion when you're not pretending you're partaking in it and only shitposting around inside it. They're like strip clubs specifically protested by the Amish.You have a certain... complete and total retardation about you that drives people away. Meanwhile, real people post in a fashion you can't help but be drawn to. You're desperate for real people, to see you and hear you and make you not feel so alone, so you chase after them wherever they go even as they run from you.
>>98013521>How many of those threads did you go into solely to yell that their thread's subject was not OSR like you have been these ones?Zero of the ones where (you) didn't push (you)r retarded alt-history. The last few, for example, had none of that, but a lot of (you)r seetheposting and attempts to gather a private army to brigade /osrg/. If (you) could have kept (you)r autism under wraps it would have been none at all.
>>98014004I know 2e is OSR and I don't hate ACKS.
>>98013519Off topic, trolling
>>98013536God, you still can't stop seething about this half a year later, can you? Incredible. How long do you plan on keeping it up? Two years? Five? Either way, I'm enjoying the hell out of it.>a new version of the /osrg/ that had not previously existedWrong, it was clarified to enforce the old version of /osrg/ that had existed all along, but that you personally were in hard denial about and constantly trying to shitpost away.>people in the /osrg/ not agreeing with your changesLmao, there was one person crying, and that was you. Consensus was total except for you.
>>98014013>You have a certain... complete and total retardation about you that drives people away. Meanwhile, real people post in a fashion you can't help but be drawn to. You're desperate for real people, to see you and hear you and make you not feel so alone, so you chase after them wherever they go even as they run from you.
>>98013568>Hell I started an OSR thread to talk about it myself as your echo chamber is too restricted.Well, see there's your problem. All general OSR threads will inherently, necessarily have the same scope, the fact that you mald about "muh echo chamber" and "too restricted" and try to push a false definition of OSR is the root of the issues you're having. If you'd simply start a thread for the game or games you want to discuss and not insist on falsely claiming they're OSR games, you wouldn't have any of these problems. For more details, see >>98013204.
>>98013565There can simply be a /2eg/, it's been done. There's no reason to call that an "OSR plus 2e" thread though, not least because that's an insane and illogical combination, like a Battletech + Elder Scrolls" thread or something.As Anon says though, /2eg/ just can't sustain. Basically nobody except this one buttflustered troll even likes to read it, and nobody plays it.
>>98014054This is the lie you keep having to repeat, and it's pretty clear that you don't care how much of a liar it makes you seem, casting doubt on everything you say.Your whole justification for your hijack falls apart the moment you admit that all the people who were disagreeing with you were not just a single person, so even as the endless evidence of many people disagreeing with you mounts, you have to keep insisting on your lie. Not even that, you have to keep trying to build it, all in hopes that you think people will assume the truth exists somewhere between what they perceive and the lies you repeat.And, while you lie, your actions reveal the truth to everyone. You've been desperate to try and shitpost the rival OSR threads to death, when it has done very little to stop them and has actually lead to their proliferation. If we actually believed in what you've tried to convince everyone, that it were actually just one person who disagreed with you, and their ideas were so wrong and unpopular that everyone disagreed with them, it really would look strange to see you be so fired up and dedicated to making thousands of furious posts to try and get rid of their threads.
>>98014076Weird, are we in the /osrg/ right now?Are people flocking to you, or are you running after them?
>>98013587>No, not this one guys revisionist history you take as holy script.Lmao, it's super detailed and well researched, with piles of DF screencaps, endorsements from a shit ton of guys including Melan, Trent, Finch...Meanwhile, you've got a schizo fantasy you cobbled together over time right on this board in front of all of us and turned into a copypasta, and that's supposed to be a superior authority? Permit me once again to kek at your feeble mental faculties and lack of rhetorical ability.
>>98013614The funny thing is that he seems to genuinely believe that nobody can decode this genius plan of his even though it's the most obvious Hanna Barbera-retard scheme possible.
>>98013630There's a /nsrg/ up right now and nobody is being trolled. Just a bunch of talk about NSR games, but it's about to die from lack of interest, so better get bumpin' if you want to say something about the Black Hack.
>>98014156I imagine him sitting at a genuine Acme Posting Station.
>>98013704>Firstly, again, even though you made up the nickname Fishfag specifically to shit on me and it clearly works because it gets me raging mad, I have the authority to declare to you what "Fishfag" means and you have to obey thatLMAO, I can't find a cry-laughing emoji large enough so you'll have to make do with this.
>>98014133>endorsement from K&KA guyslol. Geez, I wonder why a blog that tries to promote propaganda that makes a bunch of virtual nobodies seem much more important than they are. Even the whole OSRIC dick-sucking is so overblown when that game has been reduced to a footnote over the years.
>>98014163I'm afraid fishfag's newest alt-history is that /osrg destroys all these legitimate offshoots by posting them to death even though they all die from no one posting in them, so your mere facts cannot be allowed to stand. Please report to the agony booth.
>>98013704>AD&D 2e on the full-system level could never possibly be considered OSRCorrect! Finally you get it. Glad you've seen sense at long last.
>>98013756Holy mad, kek>There's never been a OSR thread you didn't appear inThat's right! And there never will be! So if you're honest about wanting to get away from us, time to stop making OSR threads!
>>98014078I was there son, you are lying. I was on DF, I was on ENworld. You can find those chats. You are lying
>>98014163NSR isn't really my thing. Too light.
>>98013756>those /2eg/ ones that were specifically dedicated to a game you hateNarp. We left those alone, they were frens with OSRbros. You were the one trolling the shit out of those, you and nobody else, as you know perfectly well.>You would post there always with your same dead-eyed try-hard postsSee, this is actually part of the problem here, that any time anyone engages in a real conversation not samefagged up by you, you read that as "dead-eyed tryhardposting" and then your schizophrenia convinces you that tryhard posting means the Air Loom Gang.
>>98014013>Meanwhile, the threads that upset you, even without your trolling, have always been incredibly livelyHA HA HA HAOh man, li'l fishnigga. Of all your imaginary horseshit this is the most imaginary by far. The level of self-delusion...! Oh, mercy.
>>98014210All the evidence is so clear and accessible and easy to independently verify, and yet these trolls just hope that enough lying can drown the truth. And, the truth keeps re-emerging, because it exists independent of their echo chamber. They seem to genuinely expect that the only place anyone can get information from is them, and that as long as they lie as hard as they can as constantly as they can, they can replace the truth.It's like their whole fishfag mythology. I saw them try to convince a newfag of their invention, only for the newfag to immediately realize there were huge leaps in their logic that didn't make any sense, though I guess them calling everyone fishfag the entire time helped to raise doubts.
>>98014024Your top half might be fishfag and your bottom half is a straight human. Buuuut I think it's more likely you're simply a Dagonite liar.
>>98014210Actually, my dad works for OSRtendo and he said that 2e is not OSR
>>98014118>Your whole justification for your hijack falls apart the moment you admit that all the people who were disagreeing with you were not just a single person,Look retard, there's two possible answers to this conundrum.Either there's just one of you desperately talking to yourself to try and impersonate a disgruntled host of secret 2e enthusiasts who are all Viva La Revolution about fucking with /osrg/ rather than just starting their own thread, but too lacking in charisma, competence or a cause to get people on board with your all-faggots Les Misérables remake.Or the 2e fanbase consists entirely of boors, whose attempts at dialogue sound like someone got the intern to do an improvised Oblivion NPC conversation about the root vegetables as a cruel joke. A fanbase so aggressively tedious and lacking in things to discuss that the Satanic Panic might've been made up just to try and lure in some interesting people.And we know the latter isn't true since while 2e might not be OSR, /2eg/ had some interesting conversation in it tucked around your desperate attempts to try and rally the troops to storm the beaches and because, frankly, the existence of such a collective of people would be an affront to nature and God of such magnitude that it'd immediately cause every 2e fan to turn into a pillar of salt, Sodom and Gomorrah style. So, by process of deduction and a lack of you being righteously smote down, it has to be the former.Cope harder, louder and deeper about it why don't you?
Well it looked like the osrg trolls killed this thread. Had a little bit of good convo in it. I guess see y'all in the next one.
>>98014118>You've been desperate to try and shitpost the rival OSR threads to death, when it has done very little to stop them and has actually lead to their proliferation.LMAOYeah, definitely that's "led to their proliferation", you didn't just spergatively spam out a mass of garbage thread out of sheer autistic assmanglement. Kek
>>98014210>I was there sonNah.>you are lyingNope.>I was on DF, I was on ENworldNah, you weren't.>You can find those chatsNope, because they don't exist.
>>98014184>LMAO, I can't find a cry-laughing emoji large enough so you'll have to make do with this.>he still thinks everyone arguing against is "fishfag"Nah, I just saw the recap of early usage, you're BTFO.>>98014191>Correct! Finally you get it.Incorrect, the immediately preceding "your autistic railing against any implication" is to denigrate the position.
>>98014210>You can find those chats.Prove it then, give them to us, post them.
>>98014094>no response to this>meanwhile he continues to mald and write long autistic screeds about his fluid locking, brain lengthening and lobstercracking at the hands of /osrg/very telling.
>>98014299You got handed one of his "I lose" flags. You should be proud.
>>98014168kek
>>98014299>You're BTFO! You're BTFO! You have to stop calling me Fishfag! YOU HAVE TO! PLEASE, I BEG OF YOUlmaooooooo
>>98014286lolFishfag's latest Wile E. Coyote Genius series of temper tantrums has resulted in some inspired dunks, if nothing else.
>>98014299>Incorrect, the immediately preceding "your autistic railing against any implication" is to denigrate the position.Nope! We all saw your admission already. Can't take it back.
>>98014186>a blog that tries to promote propaganda that makes a bunch of virtual nobodies seem much more important than they are>OSRIC has been reduced to a footnote over the yearsSee, this is why people call you an unironic schizo. These claims are so ridiculously far from the truth you have to be brain damaged to believe them yourself, let alone to expect anybody else to buy it. That post series is written by a redditor and everyone but you acknowledges and agrees that OSRIC is the progenitor of the OSR and absolutely crucial, even people who don't much like it.It's truly bizarre for you to believe that anybody is ever going to buy your version. Anyoen can check for themselves and see that you're a nutter.
>>98014251>It's like their whole fishfag mythology. I saw them try to convince a newfag of their invention, only for the newfag to immediately realize there were huge leaps in their logic that didn't make any sense, though I guess them calling everyone fishfag the entire time helped to raise doubts.LMAO, here, have a link to the exact moment you started trying to call other people Fishfag to deflect from how owned you got (not a link to your post though, but to one of the precipitating posts):>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96767555/#96795418
>>98014345>instead of hitting the /osrg/runner, the anvil flies up off the lever in a graceful backward arc, smiting Fishfag on the dome and flattening him>Fishfag is crushed into an accordion shape and waddles offscreen to the tones of the Horst-Wessel-Lied
>>98014372OSRIC just followed in the footsteps of C&C, and no game followed in OSRIC's footsteps. Considering how long it takes to make a game, and how soon after OSRIC's online-only release date they were, it's fairly safe to say that none of the earliest OSR systems was using OSRIC as a model or built their own system off of it. A few K&KA members made material meant to be part of the OSRIC cinematic universe, but these amounted to pretty amateur works that saw no popularity whatsoever, with even the K&KA members drying up after only a few years.Even funnier, we actually have clear evidence from someone that worked on OSRIC that they saw C&C as a precedent. Calling OSRIC the progenitor of the OSR really makes it clear you don't know what progenitor actually means. >Anyoen can check for themselves and see that you're a nutter.Anyone can and should check outside of whatever echo chamber you got your info from. I'm actually amazed by how much OSRIC dick you'd need to suck to think a game that didn't even get a physical release until 2009 and even then only as POD had any kind of popularity. OSRIC was basically a blog of a game. And, I can't stress enough how low that designation is, because anyone can make a blog and think they're an important writer. Kind of like all those bloggers you weirdly idolize.Wasn't there a South Park episode about this?
>>98014470OSRIC is the Kyle's Dad's Yelp Reviews of OSR.https://youtu.be/1SvdaE8U5Zc?si=BzkKeVwtOUyil-di
>>98014470>no game followed in OSRIC's footstepsExcept for Labyrinth Lord and, well, the rest of the OSR. As always, fishfag's alternate history founders on that treacherous rock known as "basic chronology".
>>98014470>no game followed in OSRIC's footstepsJesus fucking Christ, you're fucking retarded, fishfag.
>>98014528>Labyrinth LordHow exactly did it follow OSRIC's footsteps?If we're talking about using the OGL, C&C did that first. And, it used a completely different legal model than OSRIC did (and actually presented a viable commercial enterprise that OSRIC completely did not), and also happens to be B/X rather than an AD&D retroclone, and also happened to have begun development before OSRIC was released.I mean, help me out here. Remove OSRIC from the picture, and LL still gets made.Remove C&C from the picture, and not only does OSRIC not get made as a direct reaction to it, but other OSR games are faced with considerable more risk without being able to point at C&C as a legal precedent.
>>98014621Well, you could follow basic chronology and understand that, as OSRIC pioneered the basic idea of a true retroclone as understood in 2006 (i.e. as close as possibly under the OGL, legally distinct precisely enough to avoid a WoTC lawsuit, using a lawyer's background for the first time to actually rest this in a firm legal foundation instead of just hoping that it all worked out), so too did Labyrinth Lord follow the exact same path, readily apparent in things like its use of "Treasure Horde Classes" in place of Treasure Types.Or you could follow the words of the creator of Labyrinth Lord. Either way, anyone who was actually there at the time rather than showing up in /osrg circa 2024 with a schizo chip on their shoulder already knows this.
>>98014621>LL still gets made.Proctor literally cited LL as having "the same goal" as OSRIC but for BX in his first post about the system back in 2007 you tiresome nutcase.
>>98014470>Even funnier, we actually have clear evidence from someone that worked on OSRIC that they saw C&C as a precedent.A LEGAL precedent, mongoloid. The whole reason they made OSRIC was because they were terribly disappointed with C&C, which wasn't old-school at all.Fucking hell, Fishfag. This is desperate even for you.
>>98014262Or maybe fishfag only exists in your head.
>>98014734fishfag is his imaginary hillbilly boyfriend. it would destroy him if he actually accepted fishfag wasn't real.
>>98014765The funny thing is, he claimed I was fishfag, then when that fell apart I was a "fake hillbilly" then that changed to newborn redditot.His psychosis is very deep at this point
>>98014676Hey, neat. You did help me out.>so too did Labyrinth Lord follow the exact same pathThey took quite a different path though, with LL actually establishing a way for creators to build into it with extended licenses based on its trademark, something OSRIC didn't do until it's 3.0 release. Also, as a small aside, it's really weird that he mentions following in Gore's footsteps, considering that's also a Daniel Proctor game. Can you follow your own footsteps? Aside over, I guess.The second post does present something pretty interesting though, and I'll have to concede that it does do what OSRIC did, in presenting itself not so much as a system, but as an SRD. That's always been an interesting aspect of the early days of OSRIC, where they really did their best to hide behind the idea that they were just a reference document.The more interesting thing is we've got a reply asking about its relation to BFRPG and C&C right there, and how the goal was to add on to what they were doing, C&C gets talked about a lot, but we also shouldn't forget that BFRPG is another OSR game (with even its creator calling it such, and saying it actually predated OSRIC by a few months). The Dragonsfoot OSR community had bigger commercial works like C&C (and hackmaster), smaller open-source titles like BFRPG, and then reference documents like OSRIC and LL, and you seem to be trying to say that only the games that came from these reference documents type projects are what can qualify as OSR. I think I'm starting to see where you went wrong.
>>98014765I see fishfag being a goldfish that is swimming inside his skull.
>>98011100Why is OP art (i.e. that style we all know from B/X, AD&D) 100x more evocative that this style that I call Modern Slop? The Modern Slop is much more technically proficient but has zero soul, for lack of a better word. That faux-Antifa crust punk Z-a-k* Smith once wrote something about it that is the only bit of 'art criticism' that rang actually true and not disingenuous bullshit.*I won't spell out his name since that mental patient 100% has google search alerts for his name, and they do pick up these threads. He would definitely come shit up any thread that name drops him, but I think anon boards are the one exception since he can't play his game of "I am autistically insisting you respond to my irrefutable statement or I will block you. Also I am Jewish and the religious right wing is still the greatest threat to gaming even though my fellow far leftists ran me out of the hobby."
>>98014906Whoops, forgot to post Modern Slop example.I don't even mean the DEI hires, imagine everyone here as an attractive white cis person. Or the monster art.
>>98014910because the art isn't made to appeal to us. its made to appeal to a very small group of typically left wing college students or people that work at wotc. even if they claim its for mass appeal. strixhaven is the culmination of their work and their vision of what d&d should be.
>>98014872>The Dragonsfoot OSR community had bigger commercial works like C&C (and hackmaster), smaller open-source titles like BFRPG, and then reference documents like OSRIC and LL, and you seem to be trying to say that only the games that came from these reference documents type projects are what can qualify as OSR. I think I'm starting to see where you went wrong.It's amazing this fight has persisted for almost 20 years now.
>>98015107it's not made to appeal to a smaller audience, just one that is no longer us. 5e is the best selling D&D in history and the art is just not made for us old guys. It's made for the folks buying it and to appeal to those groups who might
>>98015137I ment the newer art (like the mexican orcs). 2014 era 5e was fine and definitely not the crap wotc makes now.
>>98014872>the schizo continues to let the truth slide off him like water off a duck's backI mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised since that the whole deal with paranoid schizophrenia, but still...
>>98013164Fishfag hasn't got anything but smears and insults to bring to the table, is why.
>>98015118It feels more like some set of morons dug up a 20 year settled argument to remove one (1) poster from their favorite general. And then accuse anyone who objects of being that poster.
>>98015149The evidence provided shows a community that is not just OSRIC and LL but immediately turning to BFRPG and C&C, as "products that re-captures gaming of olde," the essential core conceit of the Old School Revival, if said in a somewhat faggy way.You got a concession on one point, but you really shouldn't try to make more of it when the larger points concerning the origin and growth of the OSR still do not align with your narrow vision. >idea of a true retrocloneIs one of those things that's pretty much irrelevant to the identity of an OSR game, since most OSR games are not "quote and unquote" "TRUE" "retroclones" as you would define them. So, we have you saying the OSR originated as "true retroclones" despite following games that were not "true retroclones" and even by being followed by not "true retroclones", making it clear that "true retroclones" was not a vital and intrinsic part of the OSR community.
>>98015221No, it feels like a small group upset over C&C and the direction that the early OSR was moving in, attempting to steer the OSR in a different and more strict direction, and immediately and ultimately failing because their ideas would never prove to be popular amongst the larger OSR community.We can see this even in the way that the OSR community continued to develop as a loose group with disputed definitions of what exactly "old school" means, playing dozens of different clones (and not clones) of incredibility varying levels of "fidelity". We don't even have a unified stance on what the "R" stands for.The continued legacy of this small group within the OSR trying to demand control of it is almost endearing, in a Plankton kind of way.
>>98015305>fishfag alternate history begins anew
>>98015221Yeah, this is my read on it too. Seems like you have a few guys who like to pretend they're grogs to act at old school cred + they want to push some story about the degeneration of the noble house of Dee en Dee
>>98015326There's games that don't just disappear because they're inconvenient for your narrative.
>>98015221>I'm definitely not the asshurt guy however!Lmao.
>>98015260BFRPG, sure. C&C, no. That was never popular int he old-school community. They had high hopes for it before release, but it was an unmitigated catastrophe and did not form any basis for the OSR except as a legal (only) forerunner and negative example.
>>98015145I had no issue with that one, but those fuckers keep getting caught using AI art. Fucking AI art with the fucking profits they make. But once more it's the same thing, we are no longer the target audience man. Which sucks, but is the reality
>>98015364>Yes, I completely agree, stranger who definitely isn't me!How organic! What a discussion.
>>98015221You got it in one.
>>98015428Nope.
>>98015420It was pretty popular and successful during the window of 2004-2008 while Gygax was alive. Had he lived longer, it probably would have continued to be successful and important to the OSR community, because Gygax had an important place when it came to "old school" gaming.Even if we both agree C&C wasn't a good game, people were playing it and buying its materials, and while 90% of that could probably be attributed to the Gygax name and the remainder being there was no real commercial competition, the OSR discussions during this time constantly had C&C on its lips and members of the community were playing it.The people who tried to create a flamewars over C&C were not the majority of the OSR and were always only a very small group of only a few hundred people at most, considering that the K&KA forums only got about a thousand members in its entire liftetime.
>>98015471>fishfag alternate history begins anew
>>98015471Ya know even his death wasn't the real killer, it was the multi year lawsuits that utterly stopped any momentum it had created. Time it has been settled other OSR games had taken the limit light
>>98015420I recall it having a soild presence before GGs death. It was around and had popularity. If he hadn't died it might have been much bigger, but the community moved on as Trolllord struggled with lawsuits
>>98015420>They had high hopes for it before release,Actually, some never even gave it a chance.Way back in 2004, there were grogs mad that it was going to be d20 and (allegedly) dropped from the playtests. We're talking about a splintered, fractured group before the game was even released, before they had even played it.The important thing to understand was that there may have been a few who hated the game before it even came out, but not all did, or even likely most. And, it's wrong to try and say either side, whatever size they might have been, could speak for the entire community.
>>98015490TLG was actually planning on C&C 2.0 being released in 2009, which is really unfortunate for them.
>>98015490>>98015492On Dragonsfoot it basically died over the course of 2007, before Gary died, as OSRIC, BFRPG, and LL appeared to offer actual old-school play. Posts on it dropped by half in 2007 compared to 2006, and half again through 2008. The OSR gave players what they were actually looking for while Gary was still alive.
>>98015511They had a lot of buzz and momentum going back then. I recall it was being brought up on ENworld a lot
>>98015520On DF yeah, but not other places. They also had Thier own online communities. It was real fractured back then, more do than now I think.Ya also need to recall DF was a real 1e place back then too. As the OSR community got rolling it branched out a bit more and welcomed in 2e and other TSR games
>>98015520>compared to 2006,That was when the big flamewars were going down, because the OSRIC group apparently included some shitheads. These flamewars also took place on the TLG forums, which ended up resulting in any mention of OSRIC being banned from them. There was a lot of bad blood, but after a lot of deletions and banning, it quieted down in 2007.>The OSR Which C&C was a part of.>gave players what they were actually looking for while Gary was still alive.Players were looking for lots of different things. That's why Goblinoid up above was saying that his LL would "only complements, not detracts, from they already had with [BFRPG and C&C]."
......There was actually a lot of good discussion this time around.
>>98015755It was felt necessary to club fishfag with facts a bit more than usual, so other people might wind up learning something about the OSR as an inadvertent side-effect.In general, I highly doubt fishfag is capable of learning anything. Then again, he's at least stopped claiming that the practices of one old-school gaming con defines the OSR, so maybe he can pick up something from time to time.
>>98014800>he claimed I was fishfagThat's correct>then when that fell apart I was a "fake hillbilly" Nothing fell apart, and that is still true. You are putting on a fake hillbilly accent as an affectation.>then that changed to newborn redditot.Did you mean "newfag redditor"?Because that is absolutely factually correct by your own admission.
>>98015773Please, you lost.You lost so hard, it's not even funny.You have to deny C&C and BFRPG and so many other OSR games just to try and get your narrative working, and that's not how reality works.You can't just omit facts that contradict you. You can't just pretend only one person believes the truth when the truth is based on facts anyone can see.You're part of a small part of the OSR, that wishes it was all of the OSR.You are little dick energy personified.
>>98015938>You're part of a small part of the OSRYes!>that wishes it was all of the OSR.No!Nigga /osrg/ is ONE (1) thread, and you still can't accept that it's a subset of a subset, and bitch and moan that it should allow 2e.It doesn't matter if the whole world says something is """OSR""", /osrg/ is allowed to be whatever the fuck it wants.
>>98015938I don't think anyone is denying BFRPG is part of the OSR. It's merely not good: it will not produce good old-school gaming results, which is another thing entirely. Being OSR is not a mark of quality: there are many bad OSR game engines and adventures and other products out there.Anyways C&C is definitely not OSR, your alt-history notwithstanding. Poor fishfag.
>>98015946Screencapping this so other people can understand.So other people can understand that we had a general hijacked by a few lunatics who pretend that it didn't have its original definition shared by the whole world, a definition based on history and reality and logic, and instead wanted to change it to their ridiculous narrow definition because their ideas are so fragile they need an echo chamber. AND, rather than making their own thread and naming themselves appropriately, they hope to bank on the commercial popularity of the greater OSR (which they despise but are jealous of) to trick newfags into falling into their cult.And they'll throw insane shitfits about other people using the OSR name.Man, what a time to be alive.
>>98015978Good luck using that to prove, well, much of anything. It will be yet another amusing way to tell which one of your shitty samefag posts is you, though.Sorry your attempts to hijack /osrg have failed and continue to fail. Good luck raging impotently about it across 449837546 threads and spamming tiresome alt-history blather, though: I'm sure the army of faithful followers you desperately seek to right the horrid wrong of people following their own consensus is right around the corner.
>>98015988Buddy, you know better than anyone that you've fucked yourself. You wouldn't have been flooding these threads for thousands of posts if you thought you didn't have to, and you're going to be back to trying to flood the next one, and the next one, and so on.Your whole hijack is based on a lie you know is a lie. But, the truth has a way of catching up eventually, regardless of the effort you put into pushing your lie.Your concensus lie. Your 2efag/fishfag lie. Your K&KA revisionist history lie. And many others. All these lies keep breaking in the face of facts, and you think you can just hold out until people just somehow forget.Do yourself a favor. Let yourself see the truth for once. See how people feel without trying to tell them how they should feel, see what happens to an OSR thread when you're not trying to lie to everyone about what's happening in it.You won't, because your ego demands you cling to your fragile hugbox and your illusions, but don't say you were never given the advice you needed.
>>98016006>Fishfag alt-history hour is now replaced by fishfag "we shall fight on the beaches" ponderous speechifying hour
>>98016009See how people feel without trying to tell them how they should feel, see what happens to an OSR thread when you're not trying to lie to everyone about what's happening in it.
>>98016016Hmm yes, very interesting
>>98015978Cool, who the fuck cares, bitch? What are you gonna do, show this to reddit?
>>98015520Accurate, but it won't make a dent in Fishfag's schizo worldview.
>>98015523Ah yes, ENWorld, the bastion of old school gaming.Lmao, listen to yourself, idiot
>>98015528>Thierlel>As the OSR community got rolling it branched out a bit more and welcomed in 2e and other TSR gamesLmao no, just making shit up out of thin air again
>>98015755No there wasn't. These threads are dogshit hijacks. Kill yourself, Fishfag.
>>98015773>I highly doubt fishfag is capable of learning anything.Good prediction: >>98015938
>>98015978>absolutely unhinged schizo freakout entirely disconnected from reality>absolutely seething to fuck that his shitty game was always excluded from /osrg/ from the very beginningAnd yet you claim there aren't hijack attempts, and that they're not entirely about malding over /osrg/.
>>98015978>>98016006>muh hijack>Fishfag once again used Uno Reverse!>It wasn't very effective...
>>98016006>Buddy, you know better than anyone that you've fucked yourself.What? /osrg/ continues to exclude your shit. It's in great shape. This thread, like all your shitty hijack attemps before it, is a flaming wreck. Nobody believes your revisionist bullshit, not even you. How has Anon fucked himself? Are his psots getting deleted by the jannies? Is he getting banned?
>>98016016This is the exact angle you tried with your shitty alternative /osrg/ OPs, and no, it won't happen. They'll keep getting crashed until the jannies catch on and start deleting them on sight. If you don't like it, fuck off somewhere else and post there. I bet you can get some great 2e conversations on plebbit! Lol.
>>98016006Why are you even here posting if the entire OSR community on /tg/ is so evil and hateful? What's your endgame, having long conversations about your shitty edition – the worst ever published – with that same community? If you don't like it here, fuck off somewhere that will coddle your empty ballsack and let you cry all you want about being persecuted for the sin of having dogshit taste.
>>98015938>If I say you lost, that makes it true!>I am bleeding. That makes me the winner!
>>98015558>he is now inventing nonexistent flame wars to defend his idiotic made-up theories
>>98016156He's literally insane, so I doubt there's any "endgame". If he somehow won he'd branch out to the next gangstalking CIA enemy, which turns out to be based out of /btg or the digimon general or whatever.
>>98015523>They had a lot of buzz and momentum going back then.Kek, no they didn't. C&C was always a niche of a niche that did terribly.
>>98015520Trvke. Gary also posted extensively about his own OD&D play on DF.
Aaaaand bump limit. Fishfag is a delusional faggot and 2e is not OSR.
>>98016152So you're saying you will come into every alternate OSR thread and flood them?
>>98013636>and started up /btg+ alongside /btg, and his OP text was "Battletech is a game of Zoids and MechWarrior Dark Age and the movie ...You've done the equivalent of hijacking /btg/ and saying that battletech is ONLY 3025, and that 3050 is "not real battletech" and try to bar anything invving clans from the thread.
>>98016178Sure, buddy.
>>98016169Every attempt at creating an alternate /osrg/, yes. No matter how you feebly try to disguise it.
>>98016169No, the mods will do it for us. Because you made them hate you
>>98016285You're so smart, Sherlock Fishfag!And yet you still haven't figured out what's actually going on
>>98016285LMAO, pure comedy. Were you unsure until this moment whether all those shitposts were sincere? Not to mention that every one of these threads is an ineffectual hijack attempt so it's not like you've got anything to baww about.Also, you've been told a thousand times how to avoid this. Don't call your threads OSR threads. Don't push your fake definition of OSR. Just make a thread about the specific game you want to talk about, discuss that game in peace and quiet, and don't spend the thread seething about /osrg/.Making one Spelljammer thread instead of all these assmad hijack threads would have solved literally all your problems, only you're too assblasted to ever take an L.
I see the osrg European trolls were busy last night
>>98016127See, I can tell you are far too young to have been around back then. You are a new convert talking shit son.
Last for 2e is not OSR and fishfag's lapdog is a literal dyslexic retard.
Ya know looking though the archive, I found a new to me 2e retroclones, crypts and tunnels. Which I was excited for, except they used skills and fucking powers for the base classes....fucking why?
>>98016806Sorry, but this is an OSR thread, as you can clearly see from the subject line. As such, 2e and 2e-derived clones are off-topic ITT. Consider posting a /2eg/ or similar.
>>98017185This isn't the osrg troll, this is an open OSR thread, so it's on topic. Go back to your echo chamber
>>98017224It can't be on topic if this is an OSR thread because 2e is not OSR
>>98017261This.>>98017224>Go back to your echo chamberNo.
>>98017261This isn't the osrg. So kindly fuck off
>>98017288As long as it's an OSR thread, non-OSR games such as 2e are necessarily, by definition off topic.
>>98016806>crypts and tunnels.Can't seem to find it on any search engine, does it have a creator's name or something?
>>98017329>non-OSR games such as 2eYou lost bro?
Today let's look though MC 7Let's start with the Aartuk, a weird plant/starfish guy. They have bark covered tentacle like limbs, with suction cups on them that have pseudopods for holding and manipulation of small objects. They have a kinda snake like head on a 6 ft "neck" that can cool into the main body like a damned turtle. It's three sensory organs can detect, vibration, smell and inferared but not visible light. They also have an 80% chance of being unseen in Thier native environments The way they attack is by spitting pellets at you, (sling ranges 1d8) or using it's stupidity long fringe like tongue (30' dex check or become immobile) and they will try to eat you like a damned snake. The elders are not only 4th level priests but Thier pellet turn into 5d6 fireballs in the Phlogiston.They tend to steal ships, can speak and view war as Thier holy reason to exist. Odd little fuckerr
>>98017526Same, I only found it on the OSRchive. There is a page where he lists play testers, but never names himself. I tried googling it and got no heard, just to crypts and things
>>98017530You retard, faggot?
>>98017530Nope! I'm in exactly the right place: the OSR thread, for OSR games, which 2e isn't.
>>98017531>Hamburger Thiergartenfef
>>98016165>t. delusional faggot tard who is wrong.
>>98016737I thought you thought there was only one person who knew 2e is OSR.
>>98017858But you are not in /hm/ Also 2e is still OSR.
>>98018331He in another thread called me both fishfag and redditor newbie in the same fucking post. He also loves to call me a fake hillbilly and they flip back and forth over me being fishfag or a new person.They have a lot of Cognitive dissonance
>>98018348This is a huge change to the fishfag lore. Before fishfag was only one guy who from the beginning of time was trying to destroy /osrg/ by letting people talk about 2e or something.
>>98018348Now, we get it, you're fishfag's lapdog with actual dyslexic retardation. You're so stupid that you gobble up all the schizo history fishfag makes up.We were naive to assume that nobody could possibly more stupid than the original fishfag, but then you showed up.And yes, you are a newfag (not a "newbie"), you admitted you only posted on 4chan for the first time in february 2026.
Clockwork horrorsI always liked this things. They are pretty much self replicating ancient arcane machines. They are 4 legged "spider" constructs with a gen for its eyes. They are like the borge or Replicators. They will kill all life because they will harvest endlessly for materials to produce more of Thier kind. They killed Thier own creators, and broke down every single planet in the crystal sphere.Each type, copper, silver, electrum, gold, platinum and adamantine are made of metal of that type. They are worker, warrior , commander, planet commander, Crystal sphere commander and the creator/father horror.They are all 2 ft in size and range from 10% to 90% magic resistant. And ACs ranging from 4 to -6. They are also immune to biological based spells, mind effecting spells and electricity.Oh yeah and they are utterly fearless. Moral 20.For attacks they range from 1d4 bit, steam powered darts, cutting tools and lighting rods.I love these evil bastards.
>>98018388Yeah they change back and forth. It's very delusional
>>98018443Look, either it's one guy or all of your mothers had cravings for the same brand of lead paint chips when they were pregnant with you.We know for a fact there's one shitter that's willing to lie, cheat, falseflag, faggot about and act fucking retarded in order to get what he wants, a full throated "No bad tactics only bad targets" untermensch.So why shouldn't we be suspect when we see posts going>I'm totes a new person and I also agree with [THING RETARD SAID]>Wow, I too am new to this thread and I also think he is right :)>Y'all a hootenannyin' 'bout them /osrg/ chuds? Well I reckon they be a bunch of low down varmints son, now let me go back to wranglin' lil' dawgies. Rawhide.ect, ect.He's been up to this for about 18 months by this point at least, given that's give-or-take when he first earned his nickname.Either it's one retard, or one retard and his discord programmer socks brigade.And neither of them have, even once mind you, contributed to any thread they've been in in a constructive manner.
>>98018425See, y'all don't even pay attention. I have lurked here for years and other than the BT G once or twice over the years, have just lurked. I got active in Feb.You are the ones trying to change history, I don't care about the osrg and don't post there. But I was on ENworld, RPGnet and dragonfoot as the OSR formed. Y'all are like new converts, like gen Z kids trying to explain to people who where fucking there, how "no, no it happened this way! This blog told me!"I was fucking there. 4chan was not, the osrg was not. I was there when the assholes fled DF to make knights and knaves because they could not force Thier odd views on others.So try to sell your bullshit to someone else, who is too young and can't use fucking Google.And I have had dyslexia for likely longer than you have been alive. You think a snowflake like you is gonna hurt my feelings by calling me names like a child?Gods above y'all are stupid.
>>98018475I could say the same about you 4 or 5 trolls. You repeat the same bullshit and as a group troll and shit post any thread that says things you dislike You come off as a bunch of entitled dumbasses no one ever bothered to correct before and can't handle people not agreeing with your alternative history.Only a small minority of OSR people believe as you do. The vast majority of the community is not one fucking guy. Grow the fuck up.
>>98018497>I could say the sameNo, you can't. We actually discuss games, you never have. Not once in two years.>You repeat the same bullshitYes, you have been repeating the same bullshit non-stop since 2024, multiple times a day, and we've developed canned responses just for you.>shit post any thread that says things you dislikeYou create hijack threads to troll /osrg/, and then you act surprised that /osrg/ regulars shitpost in them. You're not very smart, son.>your alternative history.Again with the "no u" comeback. Get a new repertoire, fishfag.
>>98018514Son, once more you are thinking I am someone else. Hell I have been talking games in all these threads. You trolls just hate that.You guys are very deep into this conspiracy theory of yours
>>98018479>I was on ENworld, RPGnet and dragonfoot as the OSR formed.Then you'll have no difficulty posting from your accounts there to confirm this. Except you won't, because you're full of shit.>And I have had dyslexia for likely longer than you have been alive.1. You don't know my age.2. Having been a retard for a long time doesn't make you any less of a retard.>hurt my feelingsJust explaining how we can recognise you, retard. And I'm not referring to your dyslexia, I'm referring to the fact that you believe fishfag's schizo alt history.
>>98018531>I have been talking games in all these threads."I like [edition] it has the [factoid about edition].""I like [monster] it has the [factoid about monster].""I like [setting] it has the [factoid about setting]."Your subhuman attempts to simulate the discussions that real humans actually have about games
>>98018479>You think a snowflake like you is gonna hurt my feelings by calling me names like a child?After getting bullied for it you've turned on your spell checker in a desperate attempt not to be recognised as the dyslexic lap dog of fishfag, so yeah, I'd say you're pretty assmangled about that.
>>98018425>>98018475>>98018514>>98018550Fix your fishfag lore, retard(s). Get together with your butt buddies and make The Ichthynomicon so A: we can laugh at it and B: we have some idea how all this shit works (or not) in your head.
>>98018555Make a post on your accounts on ENworld, RPGnet and dragonfoot to prove you're not full of shit.
>>98018561That some other anon, retard. Right now I want you to fix the fishfag lore.
>>98018323>>98018343Nope, 2e is not OSR.
>>98018554Gonna give you some actual information here, as someone not a troll might find it useful.Spellchecker software often has to be rest from time to time as spell checkers on phones can pick up bad habits. Like "csn" in place of "can" if you make the same mistake enough, done will start "fixing" your correctly spelled word.Mines not to bad current although it walkways capitalizes the t in Thier. Not sure what's up with that one honestly
>>98018604>t. retard who is still wrong and smelly.
>>98018561Like I am gonna give you trolls my fucking account names lol. Gods you might that be stupid but I am not.
>>98018610>Spellchecker software often has to be rest>Mines >not to badYou don't have just dyslexia, you're actually illiterate.
>>98018618You're full of shit.
>>98018728Nah, I leave that to you echo chamber trolls
>>98018348Yes, you are putting on a fake hillbilly accent affectation to make yourself try to blend in. >>98018479Yes, we all know that you are a literal newfag redditor, by your own admission. Please shut the fuck up about what does and does not go on here, if you haven't been here for at least 20 years? Thanks a lot, retard
>>98018479>Fishfags """hillbilly""" boyfriend literally admits to being brain damaged on top of being an actual reddit newniggerLOL and you wonder why we keep talking shit to you? You should have just stayed silent instead of deciding to chime in with your uninformed ignorance.
>>98018840I need to remember to screenshot and save that claim that he's an rpg.net tranny as if that gave him authority.
>>98018479>ThierOf all the weird fishfag tells, this is perhaps the funniest for its sheer simplicity.Hey foghorn! Still waiting for those rootin' tootin' screenshots you said you totally posted earlier that proves your alt-history.
>>98018916Fuck off troll. I am not hunting shit down you will just reject. You have been given a half dozen screen shots. You reject them all
>>98018475>We know for a fact there's one shitter that's willing to lie, cheat, falseflag, faggot about and act fucking retarded in order to get what he wants, a full throated "No bad tactics only bad targets" untermensch.We know that shitter is you.You're the guy who likes to lie. You started calling everyone fishfag and lying about a consensus and lying even how the OSR started or where the OSR developed. Hell, you even lie about lying.
>>98018951What would you have to hunt down? You yourself said you totally posted them. How doggonit difficult is it to find your own posts or them varmint image files on your own computer/phone?
>>98019097You have me confused with someone else, as always. I stated the stuff could be found and others have posted . I myself only posted one about shadowdark being OSR. As you can easily find.Y'all just ignore every fucking thing but one blogpost you use as holy script. You can't be reasoned with because facts and reason do not matter to you.You can't even keep different posters straight and lump everyone into one boogieman.
>>98019135lol, boogieman, you say?Fuck you're terrible at this. Just absolutely clown-show amateurish.
>>98019059>Fishfag trying the towelie defence once again
>>98019135>shadowdark being OSRLmao eat shit and kill yourself.You fucked up big time by admitting that you're a literal newfag redditor who started coming here in february
>>98018497>Only a small minority of OSR people believe as you do.No, all OSR people agree with our definition actually.
>>98019144>walkwaysI love that once Anon pulled back the veil on him being identifiable by his consistent misspelling of the word, he stopped doing thta... and immediately started using another incorrect spelling, lmao
>>98020891Last for 2e is not OSR and fishfag's lapdog is a faggot with dyslexia from RPGnet who started posting in february 2026, thinks Shadowdark is OSR, and puts on a fake hillbilly accent.
