Welcome to Open OSR. This thread is for open discussions of TSR-era D&D, retroclones, neoclones and broader OSR-adjacent and retro games.AD&D 2e is on-topic for this thread. Discussions of whether AD&D 2e is OSR or not, both in favour and against the claim, lead to endless flame wars and are undesirable. Please avoid them.There is an /osrg/ general for those of you who prefer discussions about first decade D&D and retroclones, and if that is your preference, you can find that here: >>98208810Previous thread: >>98190970Thread Question:What are the good parts of 5e / 5.5e that should be combined with OSR games to make even better games?
>>98218904I can hardly believe about how you're so anal retentive about your anti-osrg campaign that you need three threads on the catalog at once
>>98218904>>98218938Yeah and its been going on a while now. Why is it so hard to accept that 2e just sucks ass and isn't what osr was about?
>>98218904>What are the good parts of 5e / 5.5e that should be combined with OSR games to make even better games?I think saves at death's door are a good mechanic.>>98218976>Why is it so hard to accept that 2e just sucks ass and isn't what osr was about?Whether 2e is good or bad is a subjective opinion. As for it being or not being OSR, read the OP: We make no such claim either way, and we ask Anons not to discuss the topic to avoid flamewars. Can you please respect the request? Thanks in advance.
I've been running my OSR Campaign in 4E, but the economic mechanics around fishing are too barebones for me. Can anyoneone point me towards resources for that, especially concerning the mass production and sale of saltfish?
>>98218976>Why is it so hard to accept that 2e just sucks ass and isn't what osr was about?He has autism. Severe, aggressive autism. Also, he's a tranny and believes the OSR are chuds so he has to destroy it.
>>98218904>What are the good parts of 5e / 5.5eNone. Its a terrible game that can only make things worse the more you draw from it.
The OP picked another poor question.I think a better one would be, what areas of modern game design do you think work or could work in OSR games.
>>98219621It's basically the same question tho
>>98219621>it's the thread question's fault that the thread is dead!lmao, nobody ever even bothers answering the TQ in /osrg/ and every thread still gets lots of replies.
>>98219727It is, except it's not 5e focused. Accending AC for example is a modern design aspect. It's not 5e alone
>>98219756>Accending ACWhat's that?
>>98219744shhhh they hadn't figured it out yet
>>98218904I like OSR. I also don't want to listen to people argue about what is or isn't OSR, and just want to be able to discuss OSR games without having to deal with those weird guys who treat games like tribes.But, OP, you suck at this.>AD&D 2e is on-topic for this thread. Discussions of whether AD&D 2e is OSR or not, both in favour and against the claim, lead to endless flame wars and are undesirable. What the fuck kind of pussy-footing is this. Just say OSR is pre-WotC D&D and related systems and be done with it.Well, whatever. Good to know that your efforts to appease the trolls served to totally keep them out of the thread.
>>98219744>lmao, nobody ever even bothers answering the TQ in /osrg/ and every thread still gets lots of replies.Illiterate hillbilly is stuck the superstitious phase of child intellectual development.
>>98219802>OSR is pre-WotC D&DOn preddit and RPGBTQIA.net, perhaps. Try posting there, you'll feel right at home.
>>98219802>Everybody who contradicts me is a troll. Utterly unable to cope anywhere but in a safe space. The levels of emasculation of millennials and zoomers are a civilisation-scale concern.
>>98219802>the /osrg/ trolls
>>98219802The OP hijacked the thread. He keeps slightly changing the wording to bringing back the 2e thing. He just posts super easily so there is an "Open OSR" thread before one can be made
>>98219911>The OP hijacked the thread. He keeps slightly changing the wording to bringing back the 2e thing.I don't see any difference except for a repetition removed. It was>Welcome to Open OSR. This thread is for open OSR discussions of TSR-era D&D, retroclones, neoclones and broader OSR-adjacent and retro games.and now it isWelcome to Open OSR. This thread is for open discussions of TSR-era D&D, retroclones, neoclones and broader OSR-adjacent and retro games.Just one word was changed, the meaning is identical, and there is less repetition. What's the issue with that? And how does it "bring back the 2e thing"? What thing?
>>98220009anon these are the same people that make the minor changes in 2e into a massive issue. of course a one word change is gonna matter to them.
>>98220023>make the minor changes in 2e into a massive issueThat those changes are minor is your opinion.Still curious what you meant by>He keeps slightly changing the wording to bringing back the 2e thing.What "2e thing" is being brought back, and how?
>>98220044>What "2e thing" is being brought back, and how?I wish i knew but I'm not the anon
>>98220054>I'm not the anonI'm not interested in your flamebaiting answer, then. Let him speak for himself.
>>98220009He added 2e. In place of TSR era or pre 2000, pre Wotc. It purely used 2e. I like 2e, it was first D&D., but the only reason to call it out like that is to antagonize.
>>98220167>He added 2e.You're hallucinating. It's the same as last thread in this regard. Nothing was added.>I like 2e, it was first D&D.Or maybe you're just retarded.
>>98220220The last thread was also a hijack. It's when he added it. Before that he took the title but not the OP. It's still up
>>98220167NTA, but it serves to clarify without any room for argument or dispute.You have to remember that there are people who've tried to argue that Finch's 2008 OSR Primer doesn't say 2e is OSR, despite him drawing the line between "Old School" and "Modern" at 3e ushering in the "modern" style, with him making it pretty clear with explicit language and even multiple examples. They needed to see his 2024 update where he just flat out says "2e is OSR" before they decided they needed to shift the goalposts to suddenly Finch and his games not being part of the OSR.It's not meant to antagonize. It's meant to establish what is included with no confusion and to make sure that if people disagree, they can choose to discuss their interpretation of what OSR means elsewhere. If someone is getting upset, it means they're deliberately trying to get upset.
>>98220252Fair enough. It's true no matter what we put the osrg guys will always find a reason they are offended. They do in every thread.
>>98220241>The last thread was also a hijack.What do you mean by "hijack"?>It's when he added it.The threads before that one said "For the purpose of this thread OSR is defined as an emulation of pre-3e D&D" >>98184183The current one says "AD&D 2e is on-topic for this thread." So AD&D 2e is on topic according to both OPs.What's the issue with that exactly?
>>98220261>It's true no matter what we putThat's your opinion, not a fact.And we would appreciate it if you respect the OP and not discuss the topic of whether 2e is or isn't OSR here. And if you decide to do it anyway, don't start whining if the /osrg/ guys reply in kind.>the osrg guys will always find a reason they are offendedIronic of you to say that, after you got offended by the OP.
>>98220303>That's your opinion, not a fact.NTA, but......have you looked at this thread? Take a look at the first several posts and tell him again that he's not working with facts but just opinions.> if you respect the OP and not discuss the topic of whether 2e is or isn't OSR here. And if you decide to do it anyway, don't start whining if the /osrg/ guys reply in kind.This is some pretty disingenuous stuff. If YOU respect the OP, don't only open your mouth to argue for the trolls.
>>98220252If youre genuinely not trying to troll you should keep in mind that nobody in /osrg/ called Finch an authority in the first place and they constantly hate on the Primer anyway, so fixating on him makes no sense.
Does an OSR/OSR adjacent game have to be a DnD retro clone or is it just a vibe?
>>98220360>Take a look at the first several posts and tell him again that he's not working with facts but just opinions.I was referring to his opinion that 2e is OSR.>don't only open your mouth to argue for the trolls.You and your buddy are trolls as much as they are. The only difference between you and them is that at least they're open about it, while you're hypocrites.So no, I'm arguing AGAINST the trolls, and that includes you.
>>98220371Yeah this "I'm not trolling, they're trolling" charade is revolting. It's like discussing with spoiled schoolchildren throwing a tantrum.
>>98220371>nobody in /osrg/ called Finch an authority in the first placeStop.No general on this board is a monolithic entity. It will include people with many different opinions.You're demonstrably lying.People in the /osrg/ have frequently brought up Finch's Primer as what people should read to understand what OSR is about. Trying to say that they didn't is purely and simply a lie that can be proven with the archive. Saying some people disagreed with Finch in the /osrg/ does not mean many people in the /osrg/ didn't also agree with him.And, it's not a question of authority. It's a question of whether people who are part of the OSR believe that 2e is part of the OSR. Since the OSR has no "authorities" or central organization or even universal upheld definition, it's only fair to accept that different people will have different ideas about what it means and not attempt to restrict people from discussing games just because your personal definition is different. Matt Finch is also not just some random guy, and many of his ideas are actually pretty common and widespread within the OSR community because they're pretty clear and useful and don't require weird mental gymnastics just to try and exclude 2e. The reason Matt Finch is even brought up at all (instead of the multitude of other OSR designers who agree 2e is OSR) is because of efforts made to claim that OSRIC was the first OSR game in order to try and exclude C&C, and Matt Finch was the co-author of OSRIC
>>98220426OSR started as D&D neo clone and retroclones but the sphere of what is OSR adjacent does count things like mothership and even traveller
>>98220455My main question is If a game was clearly inspired by old school DnD and is trying to replicate the feel with an entirely different rule set does the label still apply
>>98220483>trying to replicate the feelThis ain't plebbit, son.
>>98220446>Repeating the same schizo alt history for the hundredth time.We're not an autistic fixation support group, fishfag. Seek psychiatric help.
>>98219802>I also don't want to listen to people argue about what is or isn't OSR>anyway here's my post arguing about what is osr and no posts about gameplay Like potery.
>>98220483>If a game was clearly inspired by old school DnD and is trying to replicate the feel with an entirely different rule set does the label still applyYes, in my opinion, largely because rule sets are incredibly flexible.If one system uses a d20 for a roll, and the other uses a d6 for that roll, and they both are just asking for what amounts to a 50/50 coin flip, what die is used doesn't really matter. You're gonna see a lot of different systems in the OSR use lots of different resolution mechanics and suggest different ways to play the game, and they're all going to be OSR in spirit because they'll still be looking at old school games as their model, and even just looking at strictly pre-WotC D&D editions presents a pretty wide range of options, often even just within a single edition.
>>98219814You can really easily tell when you've gotten under fish's scales, they start using whatever you've caught them doing.
>>98220483Well, OSR was never one group.bitvwas a bunch of very different groups will very different ideas. The core looked to replicate the "playstyle" of pre 2000 games. Others wanted to keep older editions supported and in print Some OSR groups were more focused on rules and others more focused on feel and style. Some wanted pure retroclones, some wanted updated retroclones. Some wanted new systems , others wanted their ideas of how x system should be.As with all things, over time it got more diverse and some groups got more insular.This thread is a more open one, the osrg is a more insular one
>>98220555>The core looked to replicate the "playstyle" of pre 2000 games.Off-topic. Stop trolling, and make your own thread if you want to discuss whether 2e is OSR or not.
>>98220446>2e is part of the OSRStop trolling. This discussion is off-topic. Go talk about it somewhere else, troll.
>>98220570Fuck off troll. I was answering what was asked.
>>98220578Read the OP. The discussion is off-topic. You're trolling, admit it and stop being a hypocrite about it instead of accusing everybody else of what you're guilty of.
>>98220483>If a game was clearly inspired by old school DnD and is trying to replicate the feel with an entirely different rule set does the label still applyNo, they'll have a cut-off here too and it will be just as arbitrary if not more so because it will be some vibes are okay and some aren't based on volume and who has the most lead in their ass to keep posting. There can be casual brushoffs like saying >its osr adjacent or >that's your opinion and I accept that but its even more vapid because its not even mechanically related. Its largely moot though, there isn't any gameplay discussion here, its just vaguely around a nostalgic topic and cultural war territory. The most mechanical discussion that's happened so far was someone trying to use Kingdom to do VtM domain play. >>98220534Yeah like this guy. They've made it so there isn't anything to talk about in their scramble to let everyone talk. This likely plays into their interest in being the last poster, or an authority so much they'll take being an authority on nothing or the last poster in a thread about what the thread is about.
>>98220582Fuck off troll
>>98220555>Well, OSR was never one group.bitvwas a bunch of very different groups will very different ideas. The core looked to replicate the "playstyle" of pre 2000 games. Others wanted to keep older editions supported and in print There's also groups who wanted to "progress" the game in an "alternate history" method, ie. taking some edition and using it as a starting point to try and imagine how it might have evolved under different circumstances. In a lengthy post on the K&KA forums, T. Foster explained their group's motivations as a thought experiment of what AD&D might have been like if Gygax hadn't gotten ousted from TSR. Less about replicating or reviving older editions, but more of building up a "renaissance" around an old game or two. Of course, the K&KA were only a very small (less than a thousand people) part of the OSR community, but even they added to the wider OSR diversity.
>>98220594Grow some balls and admit that you're the one trolling, hypocrite.
>>98220594Take his advice and stop engaging with him.
>>98220607There were folks like that for sure. Adventures Dark and Deep is one game that came out of that kinda thought process. Very much a "what if 2e was headed by Gygax" kinda thing. There may be others, but that's the only one that jumps to mind I mean, look at the number of OSR games, they can look very alike or go in very different directions. Even the NSR movement came from the OSR movement. It's just the outer edge of it.
>>98220664NSR is part of OSR, and where to try and draw the line of what even is an NSR game is weird as fuck because I've seen people say one game is NSR and another isn't, then they'd provide a definition and inadvertently end up including the game they said wasn't NSR.
>>98220683It is OSR, agreed. Like OSR it's not one person or group. It's just on the outer edges, they are the ones most likely to try new things and not beholden to old structures. You get some interesting ideas with that approach for sure.
>>98220683>NSR is part of OSRNo, it isn't. It's only adjacent to it.
>>98220693I wouldn't even say they're on the outer edges. It really just depends on what you define as the "core" of OSR.Looking at what people are actually playing, almost no one actually plays OD&D, despite it being pretty easy to point at OD&D as a central pillar of OSR since it was the OG. In practice, OD&D players exist on an outer fringe of the OSR, with even combining it with its various retro-clones still putting it behind many B/X-based games that are sometimes called NSR. It's kind of like how most people don't think of The Hunchback of Notre Dame as a central Universal Monster film even though it predates even Dracula and helped establish the standard that other Universal Monster movies would follow.Being "beholden to old structures" doesn't really seem to be central to OSR if we look at what games people are actually making/playing/running/etc.
>>98220832>almost no one actually plays OD&DThat's completely false.
>>98220832Fair enough. OSR isn't as regimented as folks often think. It's a big bunch of things and many gamers don't play one game and just that game. What are you currently playing?
>>98220847NTA but compared to BX and other options, it seems fair. BX alone drowns the others out pretty heavily.
>>98220847It's pretty rare. Not stumbling-upon-a-unicorn-in-the-forest rare, but people playing the classic game are dwarfed by the amount of people playing even just B/X and not B/X retroclones/etc. Even combining all the OD&D clones like S&W or Whitehack doesn't really push the needle that much further. It's a little surprising, but it's also understandable because even back in the early days of the OSR, B/X clones like Labyrinth Lord managed to sprint ahead of OD&D/AD&D clones despite some members of the OSR community considering OD&D/AD&D to have more "prestige" than Basic.
>>98220446>no but some people said some other stuff which I can misinterpret so that ablooblooThis is trolling. Keep it out of our thread please.
>>98220832>almost no one actually plays OD&D,Incorrect.>In practice, OD&D players exist on an outer fringe of the OSR,Being a minority in the larger context doesn't automatically orient them to the fringe - a social fringe is a function of distance an OD&D is solidly in the core. If you want an actual fringe, look at BECMI and especially the CMI. >with even combining it with its various retro-clones still putting it behind many B/X-based games that are sometimes called NSR.It's not a matter of popularity, it's a matter of definitions; I would also note that "B/X-based" is an incredibly wide umbrella.>Being "beholden to old structures" doesn't really seem to be central to OSR if we look at what games people are actually making/playing/running/etc.This statement is absurd on its face; almost everything in the OSR is a marginal deviation from OD&D, B/X or AD&D 1e if not those original products themselves.
>>98220862Compared to BX, yes. Compared to AD&D 2e, no. There's many more forums, retroclones, adventures, and settings written for OD&D. Just look at the retroclones: Swords & Wizardry, Original Edition Delta, Wight Box, Scalemail, Fantastic Medieval Campaigns, Clerics Wear Ringmail, Bandit's Keep, Delving Deeper, Seven Voyages of Zylarthen, Greyharp, ...And there's entire discussion forums dedicated to OD&D, like odd74 proboards.Your original claim, that >>98220832>almost no one actually plays OD&Dis utterly idiotic.
>>98220426It has to be an old edition of D&D or a D&D retroclone, yes.This guy's:>>98220555history of the OSR is a complete fable, BTW.
>>98220943I am the first guy, not the second. I like OD&D stuff more than BX personally, but it's still not as big as something like BX
>>98220850I'm only in a Cyberpunk Red game right now, entirely because my GM is obsessed with the video game.I don't expect it will last that much longer though, but out of politeness for the current game we haven't discussed what we're gonna play next. There's a chance it's gonna be OSE, but honestly I don't think we're gonna do anything OSR for at least a few months.
>>98220987Haven't got to play cyberpunk red yet. I am in one online OSE game and one 5e game but everything I am currently running is Savage worlds. Really itching to do a Sword and wizardry revised game. I just don't have the time for it right now.
>>98220943>Compared to BX, yes. Compared to AD&D 2e, no. There's many more forums, retroclones, adventures, and settings written for OD&D.Who asked about 2e?Though, there's also plenty of 2e forums. It's either on par or more popular than OD&D on Dragonsfoot and EnWorld (counting by threads and excluding 1e); It actually might even be more popular than 1e on the r/AD&D subreddit; it's got a pretty active community on roll20; and it's also virtually synonymous with 1e on most AD&D forums. Also, official 2e material has been selling incredibly well on basically every platform its available on.>like odd74 proboards.A forum with less than a thousand members. Even r/ADnD gets 8x that many weekly visitors, and like I mentioned before most of threads seem to be about 2e there.>Just look at the retroclones:The retroclones actually make the people who are using the actual OD&D even rarer. I can understand why you got a little confused by what I said, but I was talking about just OD&D when I said "almost no one actually plays OD&D." Many of the retro-clones are very (and quite deliberately) close to the original, but that actually even helps contribute further to less people having a desire to play the original, original, first and unaltered iteration of the game. The whole point was just that being first doesn't necessarily make you the core.
>>98221086>there's also plenty of 2e forums>gives a list of forums, none of which 2e forumslol>The retroclones actually make the people who are using the actual OD&D even rarer.Logic, what's that?
>>98221096People tend to naturally include 1e and 2e together because of how similar they are, and there's plenty of AD&D forums.It's also kind of disingenuous to try and point at something like a dedicated OD&D forum as a sign or prevalence when that dedicated forum is incredibly small. >Logic, what's that?Take your time to re-read what I just said.The full paragraph please.
>>98221133>kind of disingenuous to try and point at something like a dedicated OD&D forum as a sign or prevalence when that dedicated forum is incredibly small.The largest dedicated 2e forum has zero users. So ODD74 has infinite% more users than the largest dedicated 2e forum. And that's because practically nobody plays 2e, the people talking about it are reminiscing millennials who only read the setting books as if they were novels.
>>98221133>because of how similar they arelmao
Do not feed the trolls and debate over 2e. Just ignore and hide them.
>>98220862>BX alone drowns the others out pretty heavily.It hits the right spot for OSR. If people want a more complicated game, most don't want AD&D, they want 3.5 or 5e.
>>98221647>If people want a more complicated game, most don't want AD&D, they want 3.5 or 5e.False. That's true of AD&D 2e, but not of AD&D.
>>98221647Yeah, they can do most of what AD&D does with like OSE advanced. You get some that like that level, and stuff like Hyperborea fills that, but really OSR calls to people for simpler play and rules. So the majority buse something else if they want more rules.
>>982216743.5 and 5e are dramatically more popular than all iterations of AD&D. If people are looking for a D&D game that's more mechanically heavy than B/X, it's more common for them to go to 3.5 or 5e. If someone is looking for a D&D game that's simpler than 3.5 or 5e, they typically go right past AD&D and just go for B/X. AD&D players form a small minority even within the small minority that is OSR players.
>>98221719>3.5 and 5e are dramatically more popular than all iterations of AD&D.Of course, but that's not what you said. You were talking about people being better served by playing 3e or 5e, which is false of AD&D but true of AD&D 2e.
>>98221713>they can do most of what AD&D does with like OSE advancedfalse
>>98221719>If someone is looking for a D&D game that's simpler than 3.5 or 5e, they typically go right past AD&D and just go for B/X.Again, false of AD&D, true of AD&D 2e. The appeal of AD&D is not that it's "mechanically heavy".
>>98221952>Again, false of AD&D, true of AD&D 2e.but given how mechanically similar (and identical in most cases) ad&d 1e and 2e are, wouldn't that also be true of 1e?
>>98221939That's a matter of subjective opinion, and one that most RPG players would likely disagree with you on, as evident by the continued popularity of those systems for people looking for mechanically heavy games, and the general unpopularity of AD&D even within the OSR community. The majority of people looking for OSR games are not looking for AD&D based games, either 1e or 2e.Though, I'm starting to suspect there isn't any value in discussing the matter further with you, because you seem to struggle with understanding subjectivity and you seem grossly misinformed about fairly basic numbers anyone could independently check for themselves.
>>98221970Don't feed this guy. He just wants to argue over it and he is never gonna be honest. It's why he keeps trying to attack 2e and bait you.
>>98221970>given how mechanically similar (and identical in most cases) ad&d 1e and 2e areThey aren't, at all. If you say that you just don't know anything about AD&D (like most AD&D 2e fans, so that's not unexpected).>wouldn't that also be true of 1e?Absolutely not.
>>98221952AD&D has very little appeal in contrast to B/X for most people, since B/X is old school D&D but more accessible, particularly with some of the more polished retro-clones. And, for people who want a more "serious" game, AD&D is still considerably less popular than either 3e/5e, putting it in the odd spot where it requires a fairly specific audience that is likely to be pulled towards other games, the small overlap of already two small circles in a venn diagram.If you have a better explanation for why AD&D is considerably less popular than B/X that isn't eye-roll inducing, you're free to pitch it.
>>98221972>That's a matter of subjective opinionNo, it isn't, it's factual. When 3e came out practically everybody who was playing 2e switched over, because 3e did practically everything 2e was trying to do better.On the other hand, a bunch of people are still playing AD&D today. That's why you have tons of retroclones (OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, OSE-Advanced, DragonSlayer only to name a few) and modules (the Barrowmaze series, Castle Xyntillan, Khosura) written for AD&D since the 2000s, but practically zero written for AD&D 2e. AD&D has a thriving community, AD&D 2e is dead in the water.>as evident by the continued popularity of those systems for people looking for mechanically heavy gamesI never said that 3e and 5e are not popular. I said that they are an excellent substitute for AD&D 2e, but are an inadequate one for AD&D.>you seem grossly misinformed about fairly basic numbersNot at all, you just have bad reading comprehension. Again, I never said that 3e and 5e are not popular, or that they are not more popular than AD&D. I said that if you want to play AD&D you have zero reasons to play 3e or 5e, but if you want to play AD&D 2e you're much better off playing 3e or 5e.
>>98222026>When 3e came out practically everybody who was playing 2e switched over, because 3e did practically everything 2e was trying to do better.The same thing happened with 1e to 2e, so by your own argument we can agree that 2e did practically everything 1e was trying to do better.Welp, guess we're done here. Thanks for playing.
>>98222017>AD&D has very little appeal in contrast to B/X for most peopleNever said anything to the contrary.>for people who want a more "serious" game, AD&D is still considerably less popular than either 3e/5eThe premise of the claim is false. The reasons to play AD&D on the one hand and 2e/3e/5e on the other have nothing to do with the game being "serious".>AD&D is still considerably less popular than either 3e/5eNever said anything to the contrary.
>>98222033>The same thing happened with 1e to 2eDebatable and utterly irrelevant. This is completely beside the point. The point is that:>>98222026>you have tons of retroclones (OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, OSE-Advanced, DragonSlayer only to name a few) and modules (the Barrowmaze series, Castle Xyntillan, Khosura) written for AD&D since the 2000s, but practically zero written for AD&D 2e. AD&D has a thriving community, AD&D 2e is dead in the water.This is because AD&D offers something that 2e, 3e, and 5e don't. So you have reasons to play AD&D, and reasons to play 3e or 5e, but practically no reasons to play 2e, which is why practically nothing has been published for it since 3e came out.
>>98222033>2e did practically everything 1e was trying to do betterNo, 2e did matters completely different from AD&D. Not "better" or "worse", just completely differently. So people who wanted to play the 2e way switched over to 2e, while people who wanted do play AD&D kept playing AD&D.On the other hand, when 3e came out, that's when practically everybody switched over: Because 3e does what 2e promised to do, but better.Which is why the AD&D scene is so alive. Again:>you have tons of retroclones (OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, OSE-Advanced, DragonSlayer only to name a few) and modules (the Barrowmaze series, Castle Xyntillan, Khosura) written for AD&D since the 2000sBut the 2e scene is dead in the water, and nobody is publishing for it.
Guys, stop feeding the anti-2e troll
>>982220262e doesn't need retroclones. It was an already polished game that people just buy directly from WotC, with its drive-thru RPG sales being Adamantine. It's also never had a particularly long period of being out-of-print, and now is part of a print-on-demand service. The last time it had a print run before that (2013), it sold out almost immediately. It having any retroclones when retroclones are so unnecessary for it is actually quite amazing.Trying to say "these old games are more popular because people keep trying to fix their awkward rules/presentations" is also very weird argument. Actually, it's a terrible argument, especially if you want to try and claim that retroclones are a sign of community activity and not continued community disappointment. Anyone could just go to the various forums where 2e is discussed and see the thriving community, but I guess that would undermine the bad faith argument you're trying to build, which is why you'd rather fixate on something pretty meaningless like "retroclone count", especially when you include a good number that barely anyone plays.
>>98222111>If somebody proves you wrong, stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALALA I can't hear you you're a troll".
I'm trying to come up with a custom magic system for my next campaign that leans towards the 'freeform' end while limited to a specific mutant power, with a corruption issue. Are there any good OSR adjacent magic systems I could crib ideas from that aren't full Freeform but aren't Vancian?There still will be Vancian but this is more of a setting option that any character could be infected by ala psionics, I don't want a hard list of mutations or a point buy system.
>>98222111C'mon though.He just shot himself in the dick with a "It's factual that 3e is superior to 2e in every way because practically everyone playing 2e switched over" line without realizing that 2e replaced 1e just as completely. Gygax himself actually complained about how everyone had abandoned 1e and gone over to 2e, particularly because he thought some of them would have personal loyalty to him and instead go from 1e to Dangerous Journeys. Instead, they just went from 1e to 2e, then 2e to 3e, and eventually 3e to 4e (Though, for the first time in its history, nearly half ended up going back to either 3/PF), and then 3e/PF/4e to 5e.
>>98222116Love how you ignored everything about all the modules published for AD&D but practically nothing for AD&D 2e. Also:>2e doesn't need retroclones. It was an already polished gameBullshit. B/X was also "already polished" and it has a ton of retroclones despite that.And, again, you are ignoring the fact that practically no MODULES have been published for 2e since the OSR started.>that people just buy directly from WotC, with its drive-thru RPG sales being Adamantine.B/X can also be bought directly from WotC, and its sales are also Adamantine, and yet there are tons of retroclones written for it. The reason why 2e has practically no retroclones is that there is no active scene for it.And, again, you are ignoring the fact that practically no MODULES have been published for 2e since the OSR started.>Trying to say "these old games are more popular because people keep trying to fix their awkward rules/presentations"Nice strawman, nobody said that.And, again, you are ignoring the fact that practically no MODULES have been published for 2e since the OSR started.>Anyone could just go to the various forums where 2e is discussed and see the thriving communityOf avid setting readers who don't play, which is why practically no retroclones OR MODULES have been published for 2e since the OSR started.>a good number that barely anyone playsAll of the ones I listed are better sellers than For Gold & Glory, the only 2e retroclone. Individually.
>>98222128>Are there any good OSR adjacent magic systems I could crib ideas from that aren't full Freeform but aren't Vancian?No, definitionally. If it's freeform it's not OSR.
>>98222140>2e replaced 1e just as completely.Again, there's still an active and thriving community of people writing retroclones, variants, and modules for AD&D, while practically nobody has published anything for 2e since 3e has come out.So your claim is false: The AD&D community is still alive and kicking, while the 2e community is dead in the water and is not producing anything of value or note.
>>98222128>>98222147>No, definitionally. If it's freeform it's not OSR.Could be NuSR, though.
>>98222141>And, again, you are ignoring the fact that practically no MODULES have been published for 2e since the OSR started.Hundreds have been published for 2e, under the basic idea that any OSR module can be played with 2e. Making a "2e specific module" doesn't even really make sense if you understand just how similar 1e and 2e are. 1e adventures are essentially 2e adventures and vice versa.
>>98222154>for AD&DWhich is commonly understood to include 2e.
>>98222169>Hundreds have been published for 2e, under the basic idea that any OSR module can be played with 2e.That's the apex of desperation and intellectual dishonesty. Act like an adult male and admit the truth.>Making a "2e specific module" doesn't even really make senseIt makes sense exactly as much as making a module for AD&D 1e, or OSRIC, or Labyrinth Lord Advanced, or OSE. You need to say what the module is for on the cover. And practically nobody says that any module is for 2e or For Gold and Glory, while practically all modules are for OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, or OSE.
>>98222154>activeSure.>thrivingEh, not so much for the 1e-diehard guys. They're dying and getting desperate. They've always been a really small group even at their height, which was more than a decade ago now, close to two.They do like to pretend there's a lot more of them than there are and that their projects are bigger than they actually are, but we're talking about retroclones with sales that can be counted in the hundreds and modules that they struggle to get people to play for free.
>>98222173Why are there so many amazing modules published for B/X or AD&D 1e (through OSE, OSRIC, and Labyrinth Lord), but practically nothing for published for 2e (through For Gold and Glory)?Go ahead. I'm waiting for an answer.
>>98222187>You need to say what the module is for on the cover.That's why most of them just say OSR/OSR-compatible, and don't bother specifying a specific retroclone/system.
>>98222200>That's why most of them just say OSR/OSR-compatible, and don't bother specifying a specific retroclone/system.False. And that STILL DOESN'T EXPLAIN WHY PRACTICALLY NOBODY PUBLISHES FOR FOR GOLD AND GLORY. The way you're ignoring reality is ridiculous.
>>98222199Because OSR adventures are practically OSR-system agnostic and most people selling OSR adventures are just labelling them as OSR?
>>98222193>>thriving>Eh, not so much for the 1e-diehard guys. They're dying and getting desperate.Bullshit. Of the best modules ever published for the OSR scene, a bunch are for AD&D (1e) through either OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord Advanced or DragonSlayer: Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep, Xyntillan, and Khosura, just to name a few.Now go ahead and name me any modules that are anywhere as popular as those, but published for AD&D 2e through For Gold and Glory.
>>98222209You keep evading the question.Of the best modules ever published for the OSR scene, a bunch are for AD&D (1e) through either OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord Advanced or DragonSlayer: Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep, Xyntillan, and Khosura, just to name a few.Now go ahead and name me any modules that are anywhere as popular as those, but published for AD&D 2e through For Gold and Glory.Answer the question or act like a man and admit that it's the truth.
>>98222203>False. No, true. No one needs to make 2e-specific adventures (and really couldn't, because of just how similar the two AD&D editions are), because people who play 2e can play any OSR adventure.If there was one thing that would really differentiate a 2e from a 1e adventure, it would be an adventure tied to one of the settings that became popular during the 2e era. But, since all those settings are heavily trademark protected by WotC, there are not going to be any 3rd-party adventures written for those settings.
This one's just going to circle. You can get a bigger circle that gets to 312 faster if you get into why 2nd ed isn't compatible with specific rules examples.
>>98222226>people who play 2e can play any OSR adventureIf that were the case and it's all compatible, people who could just publish for 2e through For Gold and Glory.Except they don't.Of the best modules ever published for the OSR scene, a bunch are for AD&D (1e) through either OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord Advanced or DragonSlayer: Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep, Xyntillan, and Khosura, just to name a few.Now go ahead and name me any modules that are anywhere as popular as those, but published for AD&D 2e through For Gold and Glory.
>>98222128Not that I can think of off hand, D&D tends not to like freeform casting. Most of the alt systems still just use the same spells.
>>98222237Dude, you just use the adventures as is. You know this stop trolling
>>98222222No, I'm not evading anything, I'm explaining how little you understand about the OSR.Adventures that use specific retroclones as platforms for adventures are the minority of adventures, and are usually written by people with close ties to those specific retroclones. The overwhelming majority of OSR adventures are OSR-system agnostic. Hell, many are not just OSR-system agnostic, but are even OSR/5e compatible. People who play 2e have no shortage of options for adventures, since they have the full 1e and 2e catalogs, alongside anything published for 1e retroclones, alongside every OSR adventure. Do you even understand what kind of hurdles you'd have to jump over in order to make an adventure "2e-specific" instead of just for AD&D, ie. both 1e+2e? By the time you're done clearing those hurdles, you'd actually have something that's more widely compatible with other OSR systems, instead of more specific to 2e.
>>98222260Good point, the majority are written for 5e and osr, so really 5e is the most popular osr system.
>>98222250>you just use the adventures as isDo you admit that there's a bunch of excellent modules that say, on the fucking cover that they are for OSE, LL, OSRIC, or DragonsSlayer, but there are practically none that say that they are for For Gold and Glory?It's very simple. Either you admit this, or you give a list of these excellent modules that say they are for For Gold and Glory.There's no third option.
>>98222260>I'm not evading anythingExcept you are.Why are there a ton of modules that say that they are for OSE, LL, OSRIC, and DragonSlayer, but there are none that say they are for For Gold and Glory?>B-but they are interchangeable!If they are interchangeable, they could say just as well that they are for For Gold and Glory. And yet practically nobody does.They COULD say they are for For Gold and Glory (according to you), but they factually don't.Why?
>>98222262By raw numbers, 5e is an extremely popular platform for OSR games. It's not the most popular, with that being B/X, but it's certainly more popular than any specific individual retroclone, though perhaps not all retroclones of a specific edition combined.
>>98222128Found this one, which might be useful https://www.scribd.com/document/769261822/OSR-Eric-Diaz-Alternate-MagicD&D as a whole does not really do many alternative magic systems and we they do it's often just using the same basic spellsSomething black hack based might be around as that stuff is more willing to mess with the system and spells than many OSR games are.
>>98222271Adventures that use specific retroclones as platforms for adventures are the minority of adventures, and are usually written by people with close ties to those specific retroclones.People who play 2e have no shortage of options for adventures, since they have the full 1e and 2e catalogs, alongside anything published for 1e retroclones, alongside every OSR adventure. Do you even understand what kind of hurdles you'd have to jump over in order to make an adventure "2e-specific" instead of just for AD&D, ie. both 1e+2e? By the time you're done clearing those hurdles, you'd actually have something that's more widely compatible with other OSR systems, instead of more specific to 2e.
>>98222260Stop feeding this troll for fucks sake!
>>98222260>Do you even understand what kind of hurdles you'd have to jump overZero hurdles. You just say "for Gold and Glory" instead of "for OSE", "for LL", "for OSRIC", or "for DragonSlayer".And yet a ton of people write for OSE, LL, OSRIC, and DragonSlayer, and practically nobody does for For Gold and Glory.
>>98222284Adventures that use specific retroclones as platforms for adventures are the minority of adventures, and are usually written by people with close ties to those specific retroclones.People who play 2e have no shortage of options for adventures, since they have the full 1e and 2e catalogs, alongside anything published for 1e retroclones, alongside every OSR adventure. Do you even understand what kind of hurdles you'd have to jump over in order to make an adventure "2e-specific" instead of just for AD&D, ie. both 1e+2e? By the time you're done clearing those hurdles, you'd actually have something that's more widely compatible with other OSR systems, instead of more specific to 2e.
>>98222273Right, so 5e is the most popular osr game, being a neoclone of b/x. Basic and Expert aren't osr, they're originals. Or perhaps neoclones of OD&D.
>>98222279>Adventures that use specific retroclones as platforms for adventures are the minority of adventuresFalse.And again, I've given you a list of excellent, extremely popular adventures that use OSRIC, OSE, LL, or DragonSlayer as platforms.You have given zero that "use FG&G as platforms".Because there are none.
>>98222233It's clear that is the goal here, hit the bump limit and make this thread nothing but one argument that drowns any other potential discussion out.
>>98222297>False.No, true.Please, do yourself a favor and take your head out of the sand and look at the OSR market. Look at all the OSR adventures that only mention they are OSR, with no further specifications, largely because those specifications are entirely unnecessary unless you are trying to promote a specfic retroclone.
>>98222301This conversation would have ended one hundred comments ago if you just admitted that there's practically nothing published for 2e since 3e came out. But no, you have to keep denying reality.
>>98222292NTA, but jokes aside, a basic BX like 5e clone might be hella popular. Wotc is never gonna do it but a striped down BX style basic game could do very well.
>>98222301Fair. I think he's been embarrassed enough at this point.
>>98222128The mentions of specific mutations and corruptions makes me think of Red Steel/Savage Coast. That's not exactly freeform though, since from what I remember it is basically just a list of specific abilities with limited uses. In terms of other systems with somewhat more freeform magic, Knave would be another that comes to mind, since it has some tables where you roll random spells via combinations of words, the effect of which is basically just the table agreeing on what the spell does.
>>98222308I have not engaged in your trolling argument or with you to my knowledge. Kindly fuck off.
>>98222306>No, true.I'll do a very easy exercise.Extremely popular module for Labyrinth Lord basic: Stonehell.Extremely popular modules for Labyrinth Lord Advanced: Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep.Extremely popular modules for OSRIC: Castle Xyntillan, Khosura.Now name me a few extremely popular modules for For Gold and Glory.Go ahead.I'm waiting.
>>98222320You're talking to a troll who thinks that 2e is a single retroclone for some reason. His brain is cooked.
>>98222314You can't reason with that guy. He just wants to kill OSR threads outside the osrg. Nothing more.
>>98222320Facts you dislike are not trolling.
>>98222327Not sure why he responded to me as I am not involved in his stupid anti 2e crusade.
>>98222327>>98222330>Extremely popular module for Labyrinth Lord basic: Stonehell.>Extremely popular modules for Labyrinth Lord Advanced: Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep.>Extremely popular modules for OSRIC: Castle Xyntillan, Khosura.Now name me a few extremely popular modules for For Gold and Glory.Go ahead.I'm waiting.
>>98222312Don't really have to, they're compatible systems.
>>98222333>anti 2e crusadeFacts are not a crusade. Answer the question or admit that I'm right.>Extremely popular module for Labyrinth Lord basic:Stonehell.>Extremely popular modules for Labyrinth Lord Advanced:Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep.>Extremely popular modules for OSRIC:Castle Xyntillan, Khosura.>Extremely popular modules for For Gold and Glory.NoneProve me wrong.Go ahead, I'm waiting.
>>98222339Lol that is stretching it. They are totally different systems that only share some terms. You are not using stat blocks or rules from one in the other
>>98222339>they're compatible systemsIf they're compatible, people could publish for FG&G just as well as they do for OSE, LL, and OSRIC.Except they don't.Admit it.Be a man and admit it.
>>98222346B/X, 2nd, 5e and Dungeon World are 100% compatible. Any failure is a skill issue.
>>98222352No. And you are clearly trolling so it's not worth my time.
>>98222352>B/X, 2nd, 5e and Dungeon World are 100% compatible.And GURPS. And RuneQuest.This is why nobody publishes modules for RuneQuest, because they could use all the excellent modules published for FG&G.
>>98222347Most OSR just publishes under Massif Press remember?
>>98222347LMAO you've destroyed him, Anon. Bravo.
>>98222362You keep ignoring the question.>Extremely popular module for Labyrinth Lord basic:Stonehell.>Extremely popular modules for Labyrinth Lord Advanced:Barrowmaze, Archaia, Dwarrowdeep.>Extremely popular modules for OSRIC:Castle Xyntillan, Khosura.>Extremely popular modules for For Gold and Glory.NoneProve me wrong.Go ahead, I'm waiting.
>>98222355Totally serious. If most osr is system neutral to that extent its fine to use DW or Freebooters on the Frontier, they're essentially the same as any of the nusr stuff and you can run Keep On The Borderlands with Dungeon World right out the box.
>>98222362Answer Anon's question instead of deflecting
>>98222374He won't answer the question. You and the other Anon have been humiliating them ruthlessly and they have nowhere to hide
>>98222360>This is why nobody publishes modules for RuneQuest, because they could use all the excellent modules published for FG&G.Now you're getting it. Chicago by Night is my favourite osr sandbox.>>98222372>>98222376Not the guy you're arguing with, but clearly its all osr because everything is osr. Thought you figured that out by now. If there's no mechanical requirements its all osr.
>>98222384>If there's no mechanical requirements its all osr.That's obviously what he believes, but he doesn't have the intellectual courage to admit it.
>>98222384>Chicago by Night is my favourite osr sandbox.Settlers of Catan is my favourite OSR system for domain play and mass combat. The reason nobody publishes anything for 2e and FG&G is that they can just play Settlers of Catan.
>>98222430I don't think anyone on /oosr/ Catans tho.
I do.wonder what 5e would play like with more OSR injected into it. I think it might be interesting to have individual XP charts and HP limits. Roll with some older spells. Replace Skills with 2e style proficiencies or something of the like.That could be an interesting experiment
>>98222464>That could be an interesting experimentOdd way of spelling "retarded".
>>98222312>Wotc is never gonna do it$5 says that within 5 years they're gonna try.
>>98222514They tried the simplified approach in 4e with the same results as TSR. It split the base and now in place of one market, they compared with their own line for sales.They have been doing starter sets, but those still use the core game line.
So, given the recent wave of "5e could totally be OSR guys!" posts, are those of you who have more than one functional brainstem willing to admit that the entire purity spiral, /osrg/ are such meanies who won't let me talk about games ;_;, 2e is totes an OSR game schtick really is just this one autist who wants /osrg/ to be shit and diluted?
>>98222526There are factually 5e based OSR games. 5e itself is not an OSR game. But neoclones are a mix of modern and pre modern mechanics.I am not the OP, but I did ponder mixing 5E stuff into a more OSR framework.
>>98222535There are factually 5e based games that CLAIM to be OSR
>>98222535>5e itself is not an OSR gameI think what we have to do is finally graduate to the point where we have to acknowledge that describing entire systems as "OSR" is largely just shorthand and used for convenience/marketting but is not wholly accurate.If I took OD&D and used it with no houserules and as by the book as it could be, but used it primarily to run my teen paranormal romance game where each player's sole focus was to make love to a vampire or werewolf, I would certainly be playing a system pretty close to objectively considered OSR, but in a way that would be difficult to describe as in an old school style.If I took 5e though and used it to run a brutal, resource-intensive dungeon crawl where the players were challenged more than their characters were, featuring a human, an elf, a dwarf, and rights-redacted-hobbit, I may be playing a game closer to being old school than the OD&D game where it's all about talking about whether notDracula likes your dress.
>>98222650OSR has always been that. It's never been one thing with a list of requirements all the very different communities agreed upon. It was just everyone doing their own thing.
>>98222218>Barrowmaze>BestI sure do love killing the same undead over and over again for 8 character levels. Gillespie was always overrated, and each megadungeon he's put out has been worse than the last. Dwarrowdeep is particularly bad, what with it being half fucking geomorphs.You're also wrong about the systems for most of these. Barrowmaze and Archaia are for Labyrinth Lord, not Labyrinth Lord Advanced. Xyntillan is for Swords and Wizardry. Archaia is for fucking generic "OSR Compatible". Khosura is for an AD&D 1e clone, well done.Your examples are shit, and betray of a lack of knowledge of what you're even talking about. There's plenty of good 1e modules out there put out in recent years, but three out of five of the modules you listed suck and four out of five aren't even for 1e or its clones.
>>98222828He sounds like what would happen if you asked an AI chatbot "make up dumb shit about OSR and act like a faggot" in the prompt.He acts with the kind of confidence while being wrong on important key details that can only come from something unthinking; either a machine or just a genuine idiot.
>>98222840I think it's more that guys like Melan have positioned themselves as these AD&D 1e purists in recent years, even though many of that crowd have a history of writing for a wide variety of OSR systems. All this focus on 1e is actually a fairly recent development, from the last five years or so. This guy doesn't know any better and takes their claims at face value, and thus assumes the stalwart 1e Defender Melan must have made his most acclaimed work for Gygax's magnum opus.
>>98222154>the 2e communityLmao, there has never been a 2e community. Why do you think this guy's so desperate to hang like a leech off the neck of the OSR?
>>98222222Sexts of ultimate truth, checked
>>98222535>5e itself is not an OSR gameFalse. If you can play osr with it, its an osr game. That's how it works here.
>>98222226>No one needs to make 2e-specific adventures (and really couldn't, because of just how similar the two AD&D editions are)Lmao, absolutely untrue and a wild claim proving you know nothing about either 1e or 2e. The reward systems alone are so disparate that any 1e module run in 2e is going to spit out way too much treasure for that edition and give no XP or at any rate provide the slightest hint as to how to adjudicate XP gain in 2e. For obvious reasons.
>>98222337They can't even name an extremely popular module for 2e itself. They'll never do anything but deflect because they obviously can't admit the truth.
>>98222273>>98222352These both took the trolling too far, you blew your cover. You need to learn moderation.
>>98222923Incorrect, but I don't expect no game trolls to understand
>>98222945You expect the trolls to be subtle? Or make much sense?
>>98222940how does this prove 2e isn't osr whether someone gives an answer or not?
>>98222889I think they've been around for a while, it's just that they've gotten a lot more open and bold and happy to try deliberately misleading people. It's a very different era than even just 11 years ago.
>>98222828>Barrowmaze and Archaia are for Labyrinth Lord, not Labyrinth Lord Advanced. Archaia is for fucking generic "OSR Compatible".Which is it, tardnigger?Also, both are now officially for Dragonslayer since that's Gillespie's personal pet pony.
>>98222982Oh, whether they can name a 2e module has nothing to do with the fact that 2e is incontrovertibly not an old-school game. It has a lot to do with the fact that the 2etard anons are both wholly ignorant of 2e even as they pretend to defend it, however.
>>98222982This guy does this all the time. He is just trolling. Ignore him
>>98222945>cover lmao Unironically DW is osr in this thread.
>>98223052You're right, Dwarrowdeep is the one that's for "OSR Compatible", my bad. This doesn't affect my argument in any way, but good job at catching a typo on my part.
>>98223083No, it's not. It's a PbtA game. Very different thing mechanically and stylistically than OSR.No one but trolls has ever called it an OSR game.
>>98223104>No one but trolls has ever called it an OSR game.No one but trolls has ever called 2e an OSR game either so...
>>98222650>If I took 5e though and used it to run a brutal, resource-intensive dungeon crawl where the players were challenged more than their characters were, featuring a human, an elf, a dwarf, and rights-redacted-hobbit, I may be playing a game closer to being old schoolFuck back off to plebbit
>>98222801>OSR has always been that.Wrong
>>98222828>Barrowmaze and Archaia are for Labyrinth Lord, not Labyrinth Lord Advanced.Wrong, you fucking retard
>>98222828>There's plenty of good 1e modules out there put out in recent years, but three out of five of the modules you listed suckYou'll have no difficulty telling us what modules for For Gold and Glory published since 2006 are better than those, then.Go ahead, faggot.Name them.
>>98222840>He sounds like what would happen if you asked an AI chatbot "make up dumb shit about OSR and act like a faggot" in the prompt.Prove him wrong and tell us what great modules have been published for 2e/FG&G, then.Go ahead faggot. Answer the question.
>>98222889>All this focus on 1e is actually a fairly recent development, from the last five years or so.Tell us about the great 2e/FGaF modules that were published before the last five years then.Go ahead, answer the question.
>>98222923>If you can play osr with it, its an osr gameYou can't play OSR with 5e, idiot
>>98222982>how does this prove 2e isn't osr It proves it's been dead since 3e came out.>whether someone gives an answer or not?Answer the question or concede that the Anon is right.List these great and popular modules for 2e/FGAG. Go ahead.We're waiting.
>>98223015>to try deliberately misleading people.You're the one trying to mislead people by claiming that there's great modules being published for 2e/FGAG since 3e came out. List them or shut up.
>>98223073>when somebody proves you wrong, don't admit it. Put your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALA I can't hear you you're a troll!!!"Act like a man and answer the question about 2e modules.
>>98223777>>98223780>>98223783>>98223795>>98223798>>98223801Fishfag will never answer because his goal is not to have honest conversations, but to raise a private army to throw at osrg.Anything proving his schizo alt history theories to be paranoid schizophrenic hallucinations cannot be admitted.
>>98222520The simplified 4e of Essentials was a failure, but the simplified 4e of the 4e board games was actually pretty decent, and I think they sold fairly well, with them releasing several versions and they still command a pretty high price if you can find them.
>>98224242>Open OSR>Challenge: Talk about OSR games>Any %>Difficulty: Impossible
>>98224242>Ravenloft boardgameAlright, now I'm curious how it plays out compared to the original.
>>98223964No, we're not answering because it's just reformulating your priors. To answer the question as-is, we'd have to accept that For Gold And Glory is the be-all end-all of AD&D 2e popularity, when our own priors include the expectation that dedicated 2e-in-specific products will be rare because contrary to yours the mechanical differences between it and AD&D 1e rarely result in incompatibility.You've claimed that 2e's XP rewards preclude this. You have not actually demonstrated its XP-for-GP rule or XP-by-level charts result in any significant drift, only implied that in the absence of XP for fights it'd be "too slow". You've referred to a fiddly bullshit edge-case in dungeon pursuits as a missing rule, yet when called to completely neglected to explain its importance. Over and over again, you just insist upon your priors and demand they be accepted rather than explaining their validity.
>>98224440He knows that.Everyone knows that.If you hadn't noticed by how desperate he was to get attention, he's nothing more than a sad troll.
>>98223777>>98223780>>98223780>>98223783>>98223795>>98223798>>98223801Please keep spamming the same fucking question over and over again, I'm sure it will actually make you look like you have a point next time.Anyway, if you're looking for good 2e adventure from the last few years (admittedly this is more like 8 years than 5 years), I can highly recommend Trollback Keep, Standoff at Sandfell Sea Fort, Kellerin's Rumble, The Red Prophet Rises, House of the Wraith Queen, and Knights of the 5th Dimension.
>>98223773Incorrect. Keep trying though, I'm sure you'll overcome your learning disability someday anon, you just need to work hard!
>>98224242D&D board game production values have changed quite a bit.
>>98224776
>>98223104Yes, it is. The Seclusium of Orphone of the Three Visions is a pbta generic dungeon made for lotfp by Vincent Baker. Its also listed in the Old School Renaissance Handbook. And you can just use it to run any tsr era module with minimal conversion. So yes, its osr here.
>>98223786lmao >>98222464This interesting experiment has been going on for years, there's a bunch of 5e osr hacks of varying success. They seem generally workable for most players and generally revolting to most gms. I suspect you could make one in an afternoon. Take 4-6 core classes. Take whatever things about ancestry you want , make them simple to bolt on. Edit the spell list a bit. Add resource tracking, probably slot based encumbrance. Try and run B4, see if it works.
>>98224843 Ya know what. Fair point , it can be argued to be OSR-adjacent. It's pretty counter to the core philosophy of OSR but eh, whatever.
>>98224440>>98224568 He is just trolling
>>98224890>It's pretty counter to the core philosophy of OSRPlease explain these clearly and how pbta is counter to it.
>>98224242Slightly different market and goal in those. Never got to play them myself, but as you said they had good reviews and seemed to have been liked.
>>98224901 Let's start with a big one. One of the big things about OSR is there is no "skill buttons" it's not about what your sheet says, sure the sheets help but it's not really about having just the right skill with a +6 modifier that lets me ignore looking for solutions and just does it. It's not about the skill mechanic, it's about you.PBTA is all about that however. Everything is moves, everything is mechanics. It's not about you at all, it's about what your sheet says. The machine are all, they must be obeyed or the thing falls apart.
>>98224860That would be interesting. 5e has the structure to do that is just all it's all the add ons and modern philosophy gets on the way at times
>>98224890>It's pretty counter to the core philosophy of OSRI might have to challenge that.It's definitely not where my mind goes to when I think of what the OSR is about, but at the same time neither is LotFP, and LotFP seems to gets a free pass in the OSR despite it being sort of an amalgamation of all the parts I dislike most of the OSR and OSR community.
>>98224939Ah, you've never played a pbta game. The moves are only relevant in fiction, you don't activate them as buttons. The game description unfolds and as moves emerge they are called for by the gm. Players begin referring to them by name, in the same way players refer to their spell as fireball or find traps as an ability.
>>98224952I have not played them, I am one of the folks that it bounces off hard. The games look great I just can't make my brain fully grasp it. It feels incomplete to me.I can accept it could be one of those things that look one way on paper and other in play. Fair enough.
>>98224950It's more about the PbtA mechanics and philosophy. Which I'll admit just bounces off me hard. So it could be a personal perspective based off that.I'll concede folks have made some valid points and admit my original objection was incorrect.
>>98224964Right so what are these core philosophies of osr?
>>98224968>It's more about the PbtA mechanics and philosophy. Which I'll admit just bounces off me hard. That's more than fair. It's like the Guy Fieri of RPGs.
>>98224972I tried so hard lol, they have so many fun looking games so I read a bunch and my brain just can not. Seems I am not alone, some folks just can't grasp em
>>98224968>I'll concede folks have made some valid points and admit my original objection was incorrect.Its okay, if this is the open osr thread its going to have a very broad range and its quite possible people will have to explain the rules of whatever their game is in a bit more detail for clarification.
>>98224983Can you give an example of what you've encountered that doesn't make sense to you? Might be able to help.
>>98224971Those change by who you ask, but the core most seem to agree on are.Rulings over RulesPlayer skill over character skillsAnd PbtA to me seems counter to that.
>>98225018The GM is making rulings constantly when running pbta, generally figuring out how to adjudicate moves, fronts and threats. There's a procedural framework, as there is in other osr like b/x for exploration or encounter reaction but the actual enactment of game world events is very similar to making a ruling and it becoming more codified into a rule over time with use if appropriate. If the ruling is >the carcass crawler is poisonous, save vs death or >the carcass crawler is poisonous, 2D6+Con its the same thing. Really though, both focus on not having to roll dice when its unnecessary and letting gameplay flow from description more than mechanics. Characters don't even have skills in DW, so not really sure where you're going with that one.
>>98225011Just everything. I can't pinpoint just one thing, my brain just screams it's unfinished and makes no sense. I appreciate the offer to help but I am done beating my head on that wall.
>>98225037I already admitted, I was incorrect man. Y'all made good points and I readjusted my view based off that new data
>>98224440>You've claimed that 2e's XP rewards preclude thisNo, I haven't.>the mechanical differences between it and AD&D 1e rarely result in incompatibilityLet's assume for the sake of discussion that this is correct. Then people would be able to publish modules for 2e through FGaG, and people who play AD&D (1e) would be able to use them.So it follows that there have to be as many products branded for FGaG as there are for OSRIC, OSE, LL, S&W, and Dragonslayer, since they're all compatible anyway.So go ahead and prove your claim. List all these great and popular modules for FGaG that people who play AD&D (1e) or B/X can totally play.Go ahead, answer the question.I'm waiting.
>>98224483>He knows that.>Everyone knows thatReally?If that's the case, then people people should be able to publish modules for 2e through FGaG, and people who play AD&D (1e) would be able to use them.So it follows that there have to be as many products branded for FGaG as there are for OSRIC, OSE, LL, S&W, and Dragonslayer, since they're all compatible anyway.And yet there are no modules for 2e / FGaG that are anywhere as popular.So you're full of shit.You can prove you're not full of shit by listing all those popular modules for 2e / FGaG that AD&D and B/X players totally play. Go ahead, list them.
>>98225068Dude, stop with the FGG shit. It's been explained to you most folks just use 2e and not FGG and why.
>>98225113Please don't reply to him. If he wants to do little else but provide further evidence of what kind of neurotic piece of shit he is, that's his business.
>>98225043...you know the posts are timestamped right?
>>98225118He keeps spamming the thread with the same bullshit strawman crap. It is tiring
>>98224568LMAO YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT.>House of the Wraith QueenZero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales."designed for use with AD&D, 5E, and other OSR-compatible systems"> Knights of the 5th Dimension"for AD&D 2E, 5E, and OSR systems"Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales. You just searched for random modules and "highly recommend them" when nobody has ever read them, not even the author's mother or his publisher.You're a liar.You're a nevergames fucking liar.And you're an emasculated dickless intellectual coward, that you have to make shit up in order to avoid admitting the truth, that there's no modules published for 2e that anybody gives a shit about.Shame on you.
>>98225123Yes and? I was given new data and changed my view. I am unsure what time stamps have to do with this?
>>98224591>Incorrect.Unlike you, I've not only read Barrowmaze Complete, but I've DM'ed it.And there's a bunch of NPC characters that are only compatible with LL Advanced and not with vanilla LL:>Half-Elf Thief>Half-Orc Cleric>Elven Fighter>Halfling Thief>RangerBecause you're the fucking nevergames retard who's never played a game in your life.>I'm sure you'll overcome your learning disability someday anonAre those NPCs from LL or from LL Advanced, huh?Who has the learning disability now?Answer the question.Who has the learning disability, you fucking retard.
>>98224894>He is just trollingAsking a question you don't like because it proves you're wrong and full of shit is not trolling, Anon.Answer the question.List these great and popular modules published for 2e.Come on, grow a pair of balls and say the truth.There's none.
>>98224971>what are these core philosophies of osr?An OSR game is a game that anybody thinks is OSR.There's no "core philosophy".GURPS and Vampire the Masquerade are OSR if somebody says they are, because you're not allowed to hurt their feelings.
>>98225018>Rulings over Rulesplebbit tier memefuck back off there
>>98225113>It's been explained to you most folks just use 2e and not FGG and why.So what? According to your theory, people could publish modules branded for FGG and people would know they can use them with 2e, B/X and AD&D if what you say is true.And yet nobody does that.An Anon above tried to list some "popular" 2e modules that he claimed he could "highly recommend", and it included modules with zero ratings, zero reviews, and unrated sellers that he has just pulled from a search on DTRPG.You're dickless faggots with no intellectual honesty.Admit it, practically nobody publishes modules for 2e and FGG. And if they do, practically nobody gives a fuck about them and buys them, let alone play them.All the most popular modules are for AD&D (1e), B/X, or OD&D through their retroclones.Go ahead.Be a man and admit it.
>>98225118>If somebody proves you wrong, don't admit it. Stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALALA I can't hear you you're psychotic".Grow a pair, faggot.Admit that you're wrong, that will end the discussion.Hiding your head in the sand won't.
>>98225124>strawmanStop using words you don't understand, idiot.And answer the question and admit you're wrong.Only providing the proof requested or having the intellectual honesty to admit that you're wrong can put an end to this discussion.
>>98225126>Zero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales.>Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales.>>98225159>Half-Elf Thief>Half-Orc Cleric>Elven Fighter>Halfling Thief>RangerHoly fucking shit.This is the most savage own I've ever seen on 4chan.You've totally REKT him
>>98224776That's pretty cool anon. Aside from Heroquest, what other "OSR" esque boardgames are there?
>>98225214Thank you, Anon.Yes, I have to admit this has been very satisfying.
>>98225214I'm waiting on them to act like men and admit that they were proven wrong.>>98224568>>98225126>I can highly recommend Anon, act like a man and admit that you've just run a search on DTRPG and copied the results and no, you can't "highly recommend" those, you're just full of shit. Admit that you're a dickless liar and apologise.>>98224591>>98225159>Incorrect. Keep trying though, I'm sure you'll overcome your learning disability someday anon, you just need to work hard!Anon, act like a man and admit that Barrowmaze is for LL Advanced, and that you didn't know because you've never read it, let alone played it, and you're full of shit.Say "I'm sorry, I'm the one with a learning disability, thank you for teaching me, Anon."
>>98225203No, it is factually a strawman. You have an argument you created yourself you keep attacking and not an argument anyone is making.You know your argument is BS, it's been explained to you and you keep attacking an argument only you are making
>>98225243>Anon>AnonCall him by his name. We know who he is at this point. Nobody is as retarded and full of shit as he is except for dyslexic hillbilly.
>>98225250It's not an argument, it's a fact.FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Either the fact is true, or it's false.If the fact is false, provide proof.If the fact is true, admit it.You just refuse to admit an obvious fact because you're afraid of what the consequences of that might be.Because you have no intellectual honesty.So answer:FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Is this FACT true, or false?Answer, poor excuse of a man with no dignity or intellectual honesty.
>>98225266No, it's an argument no one but you is making.You think it is a gotcha, but it's not. The facts have been explained to you, but you ignore them as they ruin your fake argument.
>>98225278>No, it's an argumentIt's not an argument, it's a fact.>You think it is a gotcha, but it's not.Then you should have no problem being intellectually honest and admit the truth.>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Is the fact true or false? Answer it.Act like a man and answer it.
>>98225286You are still making the same argument. I am not going to respond to you any more as you don't want a discussion on the topic, you want your false argument.
>>98225294>You are still making the same argument.It's not an argument, it's a fact.>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Is the fact true or false?Answer it.Act like a man and answer it.>I am not going to respond to youYou're a dickless faggot with no intellectual honesty.
My advice to everyone. Hide the troll. It makes the thread so much more readable.
>>98225301RuthlessBravo, keep it up until he capitulates or shuts the fuck up
>98225310>If somebody proves you wrong, stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALALA I can't hear you you're a troll".
>>98225215NTA, but nothing comes close to heroquest and fuck I wish I still had mine.
>>98225332>heroquestwowvery osr
>>98225340Learn how conversation flow works.
>>98225349>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Is the fact true or false?Answer it.Act like a man and answer it.
>>98225356after all your self fellatio, no.
>>98225393How can someone be so terrified by a simple question about an obvious fact? Go ahead, admit it:>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.
>>98225332I got the modern one for around 60 bucks last christmas due to it being half off and having a gift card. Are there any other games you know of that are inspired by oldschool D&D?
>>98225404>Are there any other games you know of that are inspired by oldschool D&D?CarcassonneSettlers of CatanMonopolyRiskScrabbleSnakes & LaddersNow answer my question:>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.True or false?
>>98225404Oh, nice score! I have seen a few dungeon board games but never looked into them myself
>>98225393This guy is just trolling. Just hide his spam
>>98225437It's not "spamming" to ask a question you don't like. Look, it's very simple, just answer the question instead of hiding your head in the sand and we can all move on. There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out. True or false?
>>98225393>>98225437It's kind of funny that he's already been explained how he's a complete moron but he still just doing the same thing.
>>98224790>"Did you get the Black Pudding art?">"Not yet.">"We need to get the art to the printers in five minutes!">"Oh geez... I know! Got a sharpie?"
>>98225592Yeah he just repeats the same stuff like a parrot. It's been explained to him, but he is not interested in understanding or having a discussion. He just trolls
>>98225625Have you ever seen the invisible stalker art?
>He's talking about things I don't want in my thread>Therefore he's trolling>Unlike me, who started an entire series of generals because I was told to fuck off after I insisted on talking about things other people didn't want in their thread>That was fineBoy, sure does smell of a complete lack of self-awareness in here.
>>98225592>he's already been explained how he's a complete moronLike when you "highly recomended" those extremely popular 2e modules with zero reviews, zero ratings, and zero sales. Let's review>>98225126>House of the Wraith QueenZero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales."designed for use with AD&D, 5E, and other OSR-compatible systems"> Knights of the 5th Dimension"for AD&D 2E, 5E, and OSR systems"Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales.Who's the moron, huh?You've been owned and rekt and don't have the intellectual courage to admit it.Go ahead, say it:>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.True or false?
>>98225637>It's been explained to himRight, and your "explanation" was "highly recommending" these two modules:>>98224568>House of the Wraith QueenZero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales."designed for use with AD&D, 5E, and other OSR-compatible systems"> Knights of the 5th Dimension"for AD&D 2E, 5E, and OSR systems"Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales.Go ahead. Admit that you've just run the search function from DTRPG, copy-pasted the result, and claimed that you were "highly recommending" modules you'd never heard before.Admit it.Be a man and admit that you were lying and are full of shit.
>>98225666That wasn't me. But you really don't want a discussion. I tried with you 5 or 6 threads back. You have an ideology you need to push and you have no room left for discussion or understanding.
>>98225310>who said that?
>>98225647A+.
>>98225658>>98225661>>98225666LMAOI don't think I've ever seen fishfag get so desperate. >fishfag evades the question 50 times.>fiahfag replies once.>Anon proves fishfag is full of shit>fishfag claims victoryThis is one his most hilarious displays of retardation.
>>98225682They even credited the "art" lol. Even years later the 2e monstrous compendium is one of my favorite monster book of any RPG.
>>98225693I love the 2e MM art. There's tons that would look great painted on the side of a van.
>>98225685Saved for posterity.Feel free to save and share.
>>98225693>>98225725>Quick! Let's simulate some fake discussion devoid of content to bury the comments that prove I'm a liar and an idiot!>t. fishfagThis>>98225735is never going away. It will come back to haunt you and bite you in the ass.
Gotta say, I'm about as hardline against fishfag as you can get, but I don't see the point in this line of argument.It doesn't matter what the quality of 2e is, what matters is if it is or isn't OSR.You can have games that are great that aren't OSR, or games that are dogshit that are.Letting him drag you into making it a discussion about quality only lets him pull the "See, see, they're only trying to exclude me from the tree house because they hate 2e! Mummy! Make them let me in, I'm a poor victim, abloo ;_;" card.Bully him about being a retard, don't hand him ammunition to play pwoow widdwil victrim with.
>>98225735>>98225743Typos corrected
>>98225725It is the peak van art MM, I can agree there. Have you ever seen this website?https://www.completecompendium.com/
>>98225752OSR means "Old School Revival" or "Old School Renaissance">Revival:The process of becoming more active or popular again. Literally "making alive again".>Renaissance:A new growth of activity or interest in something. Literally "rebirth".2e has not been revived, made alive again, or rebirthed: It's deader than disco.
>>98225752NTA but the troll is even talking to one person. He has tried to drag me into his bad anti 2e arguments at least twice. I do agree it's a weird ass argument that seems to have little to do with if 2e is or isn't OSR. Which would be off topic here anyhow.Maybe we should make him and the other guy a thread where they can tire each other out
>>98225725>>98225756>Spamming MM art to simulate discussion and try to bury >>98225755lmao at the desperation.
>>98225752i will say your first claim is incorrect the other guy was arguing that 2e isn't popular. but both that and quality are irrelevant to the main argument as you said. so i agree.>>98225778that won't work. its been tried before with the throwdown threads and they dragged it back into todd.
>>98225782Two different people. Why don't you fuck off troll? Or you know join one of the conversations about games that are on topic here
>>98225778>the trollIt's not trolling to prove that you're wrong about something.>He has tried to drag me into his bad anti 2e arguments at least twice.LMAO at claiming that he's wrong and claiming you're not "dragged into the argument" at the same time.You made yourself part of the argument the moment you said that the argument is wrong.And it's not even an argument, it's a fact:>FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Go ahead, reply. True or false?
>>98225787The first throw down thread worked, but then they figured out it was just to distract them
>>98225778You're just talking to the troll trying to figure out how to perform damage control after completely embarrassing himself. The big clue is him talking about fishfag as if that was real.
>>98225798Everyone is the same name and I am not falling to the fishfag trap of thinking 10 people are one guy. I can only go off one post at a time.
>>98225788>B-but we're two different people being desperate and trying to bury our lies and humiliation in fake conversation!Even if true, wouldn't make it any better that there's more than one of you who being so dickless that you can't admit the simple >FACT: There's practically no popular modules published for 2e since 3e has come out.Go ahead, reply. True or false?
>>98225798>how to perform damage control after completely embarrassing himselfLMAO when (You) posted this and got called out for lying:>>98225755(You) just ran away into hiding. You're the one who's embarrassed and desperate. Admit that you were making shit up, dickless.
>>98225798>NYOOOO you can't call me fishfag>That makes me mad>If you do that you're embarrassing yourself
>>98225807>10 peopleAnd not even one of these totally different 10 people has the balls to concede that this: >>98225755Was made up bullshit.
LMAOThis thread has been the most utter devastating humiliation of fishfag in months
>>98225839It has! Look at how he's trying to deflect by saying "nyooooo I'm 10 different people!"Right, 10 different people who are all exactly as retarded and dickless as he is.And who can't have a real conversation about OSR games for shit. It's been all been bullshit 4e and Heroquest this thread. And a couple art posts.
>>98225798Here's his dilemma.Either admit he's just a samefagging troll trying to figure out how to salvage how poorly he's done in this thread,or inadvertently admit that his trolling looks so bad that even other trolls think he looks retarded.
>>98225849>It's been all been bullshit 4e and Heroquest this threadYeah, that was sad, but that's nothing new
>>98225850>how to salvage how poorly he's done in this threadTrying the "no u" comeback again, huh, fishfag?I want to hear you elaborate on why you "highly recommend" these two modules with zero ratings, zero reviews, and zero sales.>>98225126>House of the Wraith QueenZero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales."designed for use with AD&D, 5E, and other OSR-compatible systems"> Knights of the 5th Dimension"for AD&D 2E, 5E, and OSR systems"Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales.Why do you "highly recommend" them?Answer, faggot.
>>98225861>Why do you "highly recommend" them?I'd also love to know why he "highly recommended" those two modules. Certainly he's played them, right?Let's hear it.Why did you recommend them?
>>98225871Get ready for another reply in which he says that we've "done poorly in this thread" or that he's ten different people or that we've been "humiliated" by proving that he's full of shit.What a subhuman.
>>98225889NTA but I am the one who used the term "10 different people" and it just a random number. Folks here call 3, 4, or even six different posters we have confirmed in the past as different people, one guy.It was mean talking someone here I wasn't gonna lable posts I could not confirm as to be the work of one person, as one person.Hell some folks here just jump into reply chains and act like one of the two people talking just to stir shit
>>98225787>are irrelevant to the main argument as you said. so i agree.Remember anon, as the old IRA rebel song goes "Never trust the retard with the car bomb"
>>98225910>>98225920Can you please answer this question?>House of the Wraith QueenZero ratings. Zero reviews. Unrated sales."designed for use with AD&D, 5E, and other OSR-compatible systems"> Knights of the 5th Dimension"for AD&D 2E, 5E, and OSR systems"Zero ratings. Zero Reviews. Unrated sales.Why do you "highly recommend" them?
>>98225756>https://www.completecompendium.com/These 2e online projects are incredibly helpful. The 2e wiki in particular is just a huge asset for running games; I sometimes forget just how big the game grew to be until I try to find something and can't remember what book it came from.
>>98225925Anon.Calm your tits and take your hand away from your six shooter.I'm agreeing with you, I just don't think this is a particularly productive line of conversation because he's going to use it to start rambling about how it's all because of a tiny cabal of people who hate 2e, rather than because it's not relevant /osrg/ material.
>>98225925I am the first guy, not the second and I have not been involved in your argument nor, recommended any adventures.
>313
>>98225934>>98225943until you both agree with him, you're both fishfag. welcome to the club :D
>>98225946>until you both agree with himAh, so you think those are good modules? Let's hear why!
>>98225946It hardly can be called a club if it includes everyone.
>>98225929They are, I ran into the wiki a while back and found it useful for the last 2e game I ran. 2e had a lot of add ons and was massive when you brought in stuff from all the different lines. You remember they used to do those Annual MM at the end of each year compiling the monsters from all the lines?
>>98225946Oh I have been called fishfag by the trolls for months. I know how they are
And as soon as the bump limit is hit, the trolls vanish like a fart in the night.
>>98226017No, he'll stick around and try to harass the thread for as long as people continue to discuss things.We're not talking about a sane individual here.
>>98226043No one the osrg trolls posted his bump limit meme and so he at lest is done for now
>>98225929The funny thing is that T.Foster said that he and the rest of the K&KA guys were just trying to get 1e to catch up to 2e, but under what they think TSR would have been like with gygax rather than without.Official 1e feels really incomplete, especially nowadays.
>>98226199We all, it is. Stuff came later to fill in the missing bits they just hadn't thought of yet. It's why folks are always reworking or reorganizing it. 2e is just 1e with relatively minior changes. A lot of it were common 1e houserules. The game was a decade old by then and that's plenty of time to see issue and "fixes"
>>98226267>2e is just 1e with relatively minior changes.And buckets of content.
>>98226342It had a metric fucking ton of content. I will die on the hill of 2e settings being great. They had something for everyone
>>98226094>at lest
>>98225961>I have been called fishfag by the trolls for months.If there's so many of you, why are you so utterly unable to have a real conversation about games?
>>98226421Yes, that was me, and?
>>98226199>Official 1e feels really incompleteYou wouldn't know, since you've never played it and have no idea how it's supposed to work.
>>98226424There have been you ignore them or call them fake. You really don't understand how conversation works.
>>98226267>2e is just 1e with relatively minior changes.false
>>98226430Considering the amount of retroclones, it seems like a lot of people think official 1e is incomplete.
>>98226342>And buckets of content.>>98226369>a metric fucking ton of contentAll of it either unplaytested dogshit or setting books for nevergames to read rather than play in.
>>98226429And you should learn to spell English, retard.
>>98226430NTA but it depends on when you come in. OD&D feels incomplete to some people because it's lacking a lot of stuff found in newer games.When I first looked at 1e, it felt just like a less complete version of 2e to me. Because it technically is. That is not a good or a bad thing, it's just a point of perspective.
>>98226435>There have beenAll vacuous crap to fake engagement.
>>98226446Says the never games troll lol
>>98226445>Considering the amount of retroclones, it seems like a lot of people think official 1e is incomplete.Thanks for proving you know nothing about AD&D. There's literally no retroclone reproducing all of the content even in just the three core books. So no, retroclones have nothing to do with 1e being "incomplete", retard.
>>98226451You know I am dyslexic dumbass. It looks the same to me and autocorrect says it's a word. You know what it is saying so fuck off.
>>98226452>When I first looked at 1e, it felt just like a less complete version of 2e to me. Because it technically is.Wrong.The DMG has tons of stuff that wasn't ported over to 2e. You're just too much of a storygaming retard to notice it, or understand its purpose.
>>98226472>You know I am dyslexic dumbass.You are A dyslexic dumbass. You forgot the article.Also not an excuse not to learn to spell.
>>98226468>People didn't copy everythingSeems like people think there was stuff worth skipping.>But they felt like they needed to add stuff.Seems like people think there was stuff worth adding.Either way, sounds like people think the game could use some polish/additions/subtractions, ie. it felt "unfinished."
>>98226462>never games trollfishfag trying the "no u" comeback once againrotfl
>>98226474And you are too much of a no gamer to see the issue. When you don't actually use the system to run games, you don't see the issues.
>>98226480>But they felt like they needed to add stuff.Putting words into my mouth, eh?I accept your concession.
and the trollcows have returned to a "dead" thread to ensure ideology adherence, instead of letting it die like they should if the thread isn't a threat to them.
>>98226486>you are too much of a no gamerfishfag trying the "no u" comeback once againrotfl
>>98226480You can guarantee the "1e is perfect" guys never run the game RAW
>>98226267>miniorlearn to spell, retard
>>98226462He sounds like one of those /r9k/ guys, except he hates good games instead of women.Someone with Buddha-level patience should take pity on him and introduce him to how real people, who are actually interested in having fun, play. It would probably change his entire perspective just like whenever one of those virgins finally has a woman take pity on him and also take his v-card.
>>98226498They always show back anytime conversation pops back up. The osrg trolls can't allow conversation
>>98226503>"1e is perfect" guysNobody's ever said that. The fact that you need to make that shit up to "win" an argument only proves how much you don't understand about AD&D (the real one, not the knockoff) and the OSR.
>>98226509They never talk about games, only argue over how x is not OSR or 2e sucks or some other stupidity. They clearly are not involved in any on going games and with how they treat 1e as a holy script it's clear they may have never played it
>>98226513>They always show back anytime conversation pops back up.lmao there's been zero conversation this thread except about the VERY EXCELLENT modules for FGG that you HIGHLY RECOMMEND, fishfag
>>98226491Just stating objective facts, brah.You gonna try to tell me people didn't add stuff to 1e?Also, weren't you supposed to leave? Are you actually so lonely that all you plan on doing is making sure that we can always use this thread in the future to demonstrate just how retarded you are?If so, go on. Tell me no one ever added anything to 1e.
>>98226519>They never talk about gamesWe do all the time, unlike you retards who have to resort to fake conversations to feign engagement.>They clearly are not involved in any on going gamesfishfag trying the "no u" comeback once againrotfl
>>98226524They pop up anytime conversation starts. they must kill any OSR threads they can't control
>>98226524>Tell me no one ever added anything to 1e.After you explain to me why you HIGHLY RECOMMENDED these two modules:>>98225126And how those two modules prove that 2e isn't a rotting corpse.
>>98226526Then talk about games. What are you actually playing?
>>98226530>They pop up anytime conversation starts.What conversation? Link to it.
Whoo lad, that kind of pathetic dodge doesn't even earn you a (you).
>>98225393>ask question once>disingenuous faggots ignore it>ask repeatedly until you become unignorable>disingenuous faggots refuse to answer because you asked more than once
>>98226536I've already made my play reports on the real /osrg/. I won't repost them here, since it's all nevergame retards faking conversations.
>>98226548So no games and you refuse to talk of games. You are a troll.
>>98226555lmao there has never been a single play report here since this totally-not-a-general was created weeks agoand now you're begging the "/osrg/ trolls" to make them for you?you're fucking desperate
>>98226545
>>98226571>fishfag can't memeAdd it to the list of broken theory of mind signs and symptoms.
>>98223969>Last for 2e is not OSR and fishfag has diarrhea-adapted gills.Another BrOSR victory
>>98226590>>98226601you know you don't have to respond any more right? If you've completely and totally won the argument and this thread is dead, why don't you let it die naturally instead of maintaining this obsessive life support?
okay before the trolls showed back up, we were talking about 2e content. I know the skills and powers books got a bad rep, but I rather liked combat and tactics and the magic options book.We had someone play a crusader of Tempus in a game that went rather well.
>>98226590>>98226601>>98226610which makes me think, you think this thread is a threat to you in someway. And so instead of this thread dying naturally you have to artificially push it down. which may not kill it like you might think it will, and instead more "trolls" will make new ones seeing all the traffic it gets.
>>98226610You're pretty when you cry
>>98226640>more "trolls" will make new ones seeing all the traffic it getsLet's add it to the list of signs and symptoms of your broken theory of mind, fishfag.
>>98226644>>98226655so is this thread's existence a threat to you or not?
>>98226664The clear answer is yes or they would not troll this hard to kill it
>>98225775
>>98225798>talking about fishfag as if that was real>t. Fishfag desperately trying to get rid of the nickname againYou'll never get rid of it, Fishfag.
>>9822584910 different people whose total posting rate somehow adds up to that of one guy, no less.
>>98226802>I'm 10 different peopleIf there's so many of you, why are you so utterly unable to have a real conversation about games?
>>98226802>>98226816sorrymisreadfriendly firehave a macris
>>98225126I'll readily admit that neither of the Hickey modules I recommended have ratings. I recommend them because I read through them and enjoyed them. Tenfootpole turned me on to Ian Hickey's work when Bryce reviewed Ogre Caves of the Toad God, and I've kept up with him because 2e is my preferred game and I try to keep up with whatever is released for it. I'll readily admit that 2e doesn't have much released for it as other OSR games, but it's still my preferred mode. Feel free to continue with your argumentum ad populum though.>>98225159I've read Barrowmaze Complete, but I haven't DMed it. Just because Gillespie included a bunch of NPC stat blocks for character classes that don't exist in base LL doesn't mean he's expecting you to run the game with Advanced LL. Now, in all likelihood GG actually playtested Barrowmaze with his AD&D 1e house rules and put it out for Labyrinth Lord because he figured it would sell better. Hence why he put out Dwarrowdeep for generic OSR when "OSR" was at its trendiest. He probably should have released Barrowmaze for Advanced LL even, but nowhere in the text mentions the use of Advanced LL, only base Labyrinth Lord.>>98225214Don't pull your back out sucking your own dick there anon.
>>98226864>I recommend them because I read through them and enjoyed them.Sure, buddy. We totally $100% believe youAlso: The question was about POPULAR modules, to prove that 2e is still alive. You only proved that it isn't with that lie of yours.>I'll readily admit that 2e doesn't have much released for itCongratulations for admitting that 2e is dead. You're the only one in this thread who had the balls to do that.>Just because Gillespie included a Advanced LL NPCs doesn't mean it's for Advanced LL.LMAO you're fucking retarded, though. Come one, show it wasn't a fluke and admit that you were wrong about that too. You're only halfway there anyway.>Don't pull your back out sucking your own dick there anon.Not me. Picrel.
>>98226864Man, don't feed the trolls
>>98226601God this is pathetic lol. I really hope you don't think that people actually see this as some indicator of you "winning". If you do, your theory of mind is worse than the fish's.
>>98226879>2e is deadYou've moved the goalposts from "it's not OSR"And since when did popularity count as a factor to be OSR? Oh well, youre not an authority anf these Open OSR threadz will continue to be made.
>>98226891>And since when did popularity count as a factor to be OSR?OSR means "Old School Revival" or "Old School Renaissance">Revival:The process of becoming more active or popular again. Literally "making alive again".>Renaissance:A new growth of activity or interest in something. Literally "rebirth".Something that has not been revived, made alive again, or rebirthed definitionally does not satisfy the R portion of OSR.>youre not an authority anf these Open OSR threadz will continue to be made.I hope so, I love watch you seethe and squirm.
>>98226903nta, you've changed the parameters from the ones in your bible to this new thing.
>>98226910Just report & ignore him anon.
>>98226879You were asking for "great" modules in every post I responded to but one, so I gave you modules for 2e I liked. I have no idea how popular 1e is compared to 2e. My suspicion is they're about the same, maybe leaning towards 1e, but it's not like I have any data or anything. There's a lot of good modules that have been put out for 1e and its clones in recent years. I know because I've used them in my 2e games. I don't give a shit how popular something is, I care about its quality, and your primary argument against 2e continues to be argumentum ad populum. If you only care about popularity, /5eg/ is over here >>98221664 As for the latter, if Gillespie intended for it to be for Advanced Labyrinth Lord, then why is every reference to the rules in the book to Labyrinth Lord rather than Advanced Labyrinth Lord? The only time ALL is mentioned is in the little copyright blurb at the end of the book. If he actually meant for it to be used for ALL, then why didn't he fucking say so? Well, in all honesty, I know the probable answer. Releasing a game for OSRIC or FG&G or LL or whatever is mostly a branding exercise, most of these writers playtest their stuff with personal homebrew pulling from a bunch of different sources, like Gillespie almost certainly did for Barrowmaze, as shown with Dragonslayer.
>>98226910>your biblelolwut
>>98226924>If somebody says something you don't like, stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALA I can't hear you you're a troll"
>>98226959>if you only care about popularityNot what I said. I said 2e is dead, which you admitted that it is. I like lots of things that nobody likes and are dead, but, unlike you, I have no difficulty admitting it, because I still have my balls on.>ALL is mentioned is in the little copyright blurb at the end of the book.I accept your concession.
>>98226971>I accept your concession.Ah, so you're arguing entirely in bad faith or are just retarded, gotcha.
One day, some of you trolls might actually talk about games
