>>98262845
Perhaps? I dunno, I like the idea of treating other people like weapon suit cases, and having diversity with the fleshy weapons I could bring

>>98263018
In my case I only rp a kinfolk. Ginfolk to be exact

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>>98263045
>Has anyone done anything interesting with or had an interesting encounter with zombies?
Our ST ran a London game where we ended up raiding Roger deCandem's haven, so after doing him and Monty Coven in, we went down to his inner sanctum to see what goodies he had.

The entrance was below the Natural History Museum after a long long tunnel. Walked for a long while but we finally got there. Saw a couple interesting books, and a mysterious curtain. We pulled the curtain back and it was literally pic related. The horde ended up chasing us and, while we managed to gain an edge with Blood Buffed Dexterity and collapse a part of the tunnel through our Brujah's Potence, the barrier we left wasn't perfect and I attribute them not getting out to us getting away and them forgetting about us once we left their range. And our ST not wanting to deal with a major masquerade breach of skeletons poured out into the streets when none of us were built for crowd control.

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Funnily, the two times I've tried making a character with Necromancy I don't think I've actually tried the actual Necromancy. One was a bored Giovanni Hedonist Opera Singer with a Chainsaw for a oneshot that, despite having several dots in the Cenotaph path never actually used them. The other was a Cappadocian Plague Bride for a Dark Ages game that liked to LARP as a local ghost to feed from the sick and heal them through a custom ritual where she had to kiss the patient. Never actually got to play her but I wanted to go heavy on The Grace's Decay and Path of the Twilight Garden/4 humours. Having to deal with managing an actual zombie horde seems inconvenient to me.

>>98263045
>TQ
No, at least not from the tables I've played on

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>>98262702
Im not opposed to this idea since Sanguinus can be learned by other vampires but from what im reading (pic rel, Time Of Thin Blood, pg 21.), there needs to be a shared blood bond (vaulderies would also count) between them and every party involved would also need to know Sanguinis (this was mentioned in the little box on pg 20).

This actually does give me a nasty idea for a sabbat pack that all know Sanguinus and use it to pull a Power Rangers style transformation. The real question is can a pack of Tzimisce activate zulo and then use Sanguinis to make a megazulo?

>>98263983
>The real question is can a pack of Tzimisce activate zulo and then use Sanguinis to make a megazulo?
Yes.
Transformations stack by default in WoD. STs may houserule otherwise, but that's on them.

>>98264155
>>98263983
PornoTzim! I think I found a way to make your hive even more terrifying! but i dont think you can use Octopod to donate the ovipositor, or at least the payload of the ovipositor

>>98263045
>TQ

The archetypal dumb and numerous Zombies are a decent early encounter for Hunters, the main hurdle you have to clear is how to make an enemy with little going for them but numbers and toughness engaging, since otherwise it can just turn into a slog. I usually like to give them Bane: take aggravated damage from headshots, allowing for PCs to quickly blow through them by going for risky called shots. I'll also move them all at once to keep things moving, and constantly narrate how the horde is closing in. Also, roll with it if your players have unorthodox ways of dealing with the horde like traps or improvised explosives. Also, give them a win condition besides clearing the horde, like fighting through it to kill whoever/whatever is animating them. It can be a pretty fun hunt, but it shouldn't be repeated, then it becomes boring.

>>98264155
>Some sort of all Time coterie having a row row fight the power moment using a 20 strength power flesh drill against the Eldest
Kino

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>>98264423
Since Octopod explicitly states only external organs may be donated I don't think that's possible. Sanguinus also requires a Blood Bond to work and at that point they are either aiding the Hive, or prey.

But most importantly, given that it's a Blood Brother discipline it would require performing an abomination even PornoTzim wouldn't sink to: Working with Tremere.

>>98264831
>first part
While the ovipositing might be a bust. Growing wings, extra arms, or a stinger is still viable. I kinda figured the best way to ensure hive conformity would be to share this with a vaulderie, preferably of childer who are already molded into only thinking of the hive.
>Working with Tr*mere
Thats only to create a blood brother. You just have to drink from one to learn Sanguinis. Though Jason and Jeff seemed to learn Sanguinis independently but that could be due to the fact they were already twins.

have any of you played as a nephandus/widderslainte or gm'ed for a game with them as PCs in mage the ascension? iv read a lot on mage but never got the chance to play and nephandi and dark occult shit have always interested me. and i like the goatkids faction because baphomet is just cool.

>>98265164
>You just have to drink from one to learn Sanguinis.
You also need to learn how to use it. Otherwise its like trying to flex a muscle you've never had before.

>>98266771
If you're willing to play it straight you're actually a fucking psychopath, and if you're not there's no point to it nor any way to do it justice, so why do it? I am all for most forms of "What if bad guy?" but things like Nephandi and Baali are generally considered unplayable for gopd reason, far moreso than even the Sabbat, which is already heinous.

We're talking pointless torture for fun and raping children and compulsively undoing reality. There's no "the Sabbat is evil but MY character has solid motivations" way to sanitize Nephandi. They are actual fucking madmen.

>>98266908
>If you're willing to play it straight you're actually a fucking psychopath
Anon, that the ttrpg version of "vudeogames cause violence". It's utterly retarded.

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>>98266822
>You also need to learn how to use it.
It is an Out of Clan discipline so I figured that went without saying. Though since it is a "curious relative of Vicissitude", I would argue having Vicissitude should make it a little easier to learn Sanguinus.

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>>98265164
>>98267070
>Growing wings, extra arms, or a stinger is still viable.
I mean, sure? That doesn't seem like such a bad idea for an elite Royal Guard that's actually one Blood Brother troupe where they exchange parts with each other according to what they need. An agent for when something more interesting than a regular Schlatza is required. If one doesn't mind polluting their colony with Tremere-touched filth.

Though then again, I don't think the Domitor itself would need to learn Sanguinus, just give them the parts they require through Viscissitude and let them exchange.

one thing i always wanted to feature but never found a place for is a wererat abomination with sanguinus and probably vicissitude for even more body horror

wererat abominations rot to death so this rat would keep embracing so to replace it's rotting bodyparts and try to stay alive

>>98267482
Another option to stay together would be mummification. Not the magical kind, actual egyptian corpse preservation.

Mummification is actually rediculously good at preserving bodies. People assume that mummies are partially rotted because of the way they look, but modern research has proven that the mummy look is just what happens when a body is exposed to the insense and spices used in mummification. Egyptian mummies look exactly the same as the day they wete buried.

>>98263045
>Has anyone done anything interesting with or had an interesting encounter with zombies?
A few different games, one was just straight up as characters in an ZApoc in our home cities. One as a future nano-tech AI-controlled hive mind scenario.The CofD core book is amazing for generic system play.

>>98266908
Wtf? I didn't know we had one of Mage's writers browsing our humbled thread. Shame it's the retarded one.

>>98267510
>Setite devising yet another method to make abominations
WTF is it with the followers of set and their obsession with turning fera into vampire-beasts?
They don't even make good soldiers, the poor bastards are either too depressed or too insane to follow orders.

>>98267632
>WTF is it with the followers of set and their obsession with turning fera into vampire-beasts?

They're wyrmshitters in various states of denial. Makes perfect sense to me.

>>98267632
they are the only clan that been at actual war with fera + their religion exalts corruption as virtue

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So, this isn't specifically on topic for this thread really, but it's the biggest collection of roleplayers that dig vampires, so here goes.

I have been thinking of creating a roleplaying game that focuses on vampires primarily, but also werewolves, magic wielders, ghosts, and other supernatural favorites, but that is very distinctly different from any iteration of the World of Darkness games. Vampires, for instance, would have more in common with vampires from the John Carpenter's Vampires movie, the Bram Stoker's Dracula movie, and the Underworld films than the World of Darkness games.

The system would be completely different as well, focusing more on quick resolution and believable representation of the subject matter. There would be a morality/humanity type mechanic in place, but less focusing on degeneration and inevitable damnation than on being used as an influence on roleplaying.

Thoughts? Does this have any appeal?

>>98267632
>They don't even make good soldiers, the poor bastards are either too depressed or too insane to follow orders.
That's why you leave brainwashing and gaslighting to mages

>>98267231
But thats the beautiful thing, you dont need blood brothers to utilize Sanguinus. Unfortunately you do need a mutual blood bond or vaulderie in order to utilize Sanguinus. Just imagine a subpack of Tzimisce praetorian guards who can pop zulo form and then they all converge into essentially a sentient GigaVozhd. Only 1 of them needs the 5th dot but the rest can suffice on 2-3 dots. Gestalt is great for confering skills / resisting disciplines and Brother's Blood is great for keeping the front line healthy because the ones not in combat can spend blood points to heal them regardless of distance. It is a bit of a exp sink but the possibilities are fascinating to consider.

>>98266908
Not him, I'm still sort of wading around and haven't read nearly enough yet
Isn't it technically possible for a sire to underestimate how rebellious/resentful a prospective childe would be towards Baali shit? Caul gates are another matter entirely, I think I understand that well enough, but how total is the Baali's whole embrace spiel? Is a sire having a catastrophic lapse in judgement somehow making it all the way through the embrace not plausible? Does something about the Baali blood just turbofuck someone on a Caul gate tier?

>>98267674
>Thoughts? Does this have any appeal?
Hate to answer your question with another question but... what exactly are you looking for?

In theory, I think it's fine. But also, you haven't really said much beyond citing your inspirations and stating that vampires would keep Humanity without stewing in it melodramatically. WoD has never had an absolute monopoly on horror-themed urban fantasy, so there's nothing wrong with you wanting to make your own.

But genuinely what are you looking for from us? Are you trying to make your own RPG setting? Are you trying to just run something for your own table?

>>98267632
This makes me realize it's for thr best that Kemitri is still in an insane half-wassail. She'd be getting up to some Horrifying shit with a working copy of the original spell of life and the setite impulse to make abominations.

>>98267632
>WTF is it with the followers of set and their obsession with turning fera into vampire-beasts?
Because Sobek kicks ass, and it is hilarious to see the reaction of the fera dealing with that type of shit, its like messing with their kinfolk but better.

I remember a story about how a coterie managed to get a werewolf to do their bidding by blackmailing them with evidence of the affair he had with the sept leader's wife after they mind-controlled her into it. After killing one of their rivals, they leaked the footage anyway in a way that ended up causing a duel that escalated into an all-out civil war with a little more prodding from the malkavian.

>>98267716
If it is something that people might like, I'm probably going to write it up, fiddle with playtesting it with volunteers on discord, buy some inexpensive stock art, then put it on drivethruRPG as a pay what you want product. If it doesn't have appeal, I was just going to forget about it.

The idea started because I absolutely hate the d10 based dice pool systems used in various iterations of the WoD systems. I mean I fucking HATE it so very much. I thought about making a replacement system to well, excise the cancer and replace it with another system that does all the same shit but in a much better, faster, more intuitive way.

>>98267632
>They don't even make good soldiers, the poor bastards are either too depressed or too insane to follow orders.
That's the real sticking point, setites have access to the path of Turanny of the Wyrm. They already know vampires are uniquely immune to the negative effects of bane possession while still getting the benefits(old niche lore that whitewolf never retconned because it would break several blood magics, and vtm sold more than wta).

Vampire Fomori have the same potential as abominations with zero of the headaches(just a lot more xp expensive since you have to buy the innate abilities that fera get for free).

>>98267754
>setites have access to the path of Turanny of the Wyrm.
they don't actually. zettler made it in the dark ages after the setites already purged their sorcerer caste and it's not listed as a path that is included in akhu. setites for all their wyrm/aphophis connections can't just take dark thaum paths as setite sorcery and they (perhaps surprisingly) have no real ties to pentex and zettler so the closest they have is spirit manipulation

>>98267769
>Pentex has a monopoly on both vampire fomori and possessed able to learn/buy powers with xp instead of taint/autonomi
No wonder the woofs are losing so hard.

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I want to pet a lupus!

>>98267787
they also figured out how to make vampire fomori that are in need to zettler's own vitae meaning they are all blood bound to him

so pentex turned the power of the wyrm into a subscription service as far as vampires are concerned

>>98267787
Pentex also has a bane-drug that DOUBLES the effect of all a fomori's powers temporarily.
Fomori with +4 strength dots from hideous strength? It's +8 dots now.
Got regeneration for 1 health level a round? It's 2 HL a round now.
Got a power that foes 5 dice of damage? It's 10 dice now.
Seriously, the werepuppers are fucking screwed.

>>98267739
Well I'm not sure if you'll get the best feedback for your anti-WoD idea on a thread for WoD fans on a frankly dying board. At the same time basically nobody likes all of WoD, especially given that there's three of them now.

But... I say go for it. Just understand what you're getting into. I'm the VtM to VtR conversion anon so I have some experience with making spergy homebrew RPG stuff. Don't consider popularity, even if you tried to make it as broadly appealing as possible, you're making a fringe product for a still moderately niche hobby that's got a lot of people who never step out of the d20 bubble.

My advice is this: Start with the mechanics first if the idea started from your dislike for the d10 pool core mechanics. I personally don't mind them, my problems with the various WoD systems aren't an issue with core mechanics. Since you'll be competing with WoD, CoC, Unknown Armies, Kult, and I'm sure a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting, you'll want the game's mechanics to stand out, since your idea of what makes for a good horror urban fantasy setting will never please everyone. If you build a solid core, it becomes much easier to build off of it when designing your supernaturals. Do you have anything concrete yet or are you still workshopping?

>>98267790
>I want to pet
homo homini lupus

>>98267674
>>98267739
Have you taken a look at Curseborne?

>>98267674
Isn't this just that curse game?

>>98267728
How do you even hide evidence of an affair from a Garou? Seems like one of those things you'd have to be excessively involved in.

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My current ST is insisting on character portraits for our VTM game.
Someone help me with a portrait.

My guys is a white blonde Gangrel Meth head Beach Bum.

Peak late 90s/early 2000s

Blonde dreads, shitty tattoos, Shark Tooth Necklace, Open shirt and cargo shorts.

>>98267889
>How do you even hide evidence of an affair from a Garou?
By summoning help from the spirits of NTR to mug any critical thinking and reason spirits in the area.
Or at least that's how the Hakken do it in japan.

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>>98267690
>a subpack of Tzimisce praetorian guards who can pop zulo form and then they all converge into essentially a sentient GigaVozhd
Ah I see now, you want the flesh Megazord option without relying on the Blood Brothers' lack of identity/agency +additional Zulo boost. Yeah, I suppose one could do that to their childer, though as you say, arranging it might be complicated. I feel like even a small pack of several different Tzimisce might be too independent since dragons aren't exactly the most cooperative clan, even with loyalty to the Hive. I feel they'd fight over who has the most control over the largest body mass, and who has to take body donation duty. BB have none of these problems.

>>98267889
>How do you even hide evidence of an affair from a Garou?
By relying on their incompetence.

The Sabbat? Bunch of losers and frauds. They think they're 2-0 against the Antediluvians, but they're actually 0-2. Worse, those two attempts on the Antediluvians were before the Sabbat actually became a proper sect. After they crystalized, they didn't make any serious runs on Antediluvians ever again. Not only that, but despite claiming to dedicate themselves to existential war, they at best break even against the decadent, hoighty toighty Camarilla. They talk about freedom, but they punish apostasy with death like a bunch of Jihadis, and they're not even good religious fundamentalists. Not only does their orthodoxy actively do several of the things Caine explicitly said not to do, but said orthodoxy is extremely impotent. Despite having an internal inquisition, the Sabbat has more infernalists and Lilith worshippers than the Camarilla by a wide margin. Speaking of impotence, the Sabbat is super cucked to multiple fifth columns. The Tzimisce use it as a glorified welfare state, the Assamite Antitribu get to have preferential treatment despite having a shitload of not-so-subtle Antediluvian worshippers, and of course let's not forget the multiple civil wars they've had that Mexico City couldn't stop. Oh, and I forgot to mention their Regent, the technical leader of the Sabbat, was a butt slut for a Baali Methuselah. Was, because she got assassinated right under the Sabbat's nose in their capital city, and then got impersonated by a Tzimisce neonate for a shockingly long amount of time. They're an ever loosening confederation of every inhuman dipshit of a vampire with an axe to grind against walking upright and showing even a modicum of restraint.

and I wouldn't have it any other way. I fucking love the Sabbat.

>>98267970
>NTR spirits
Do wyrmfags really need a spirit for every kink?

>>98267867
>>98267873
Until these posts, I had no idea that game existed.

>>98268155
>Do wyrmfags really need a spirit for every kink?
Why do you speak as if there isn't a spirit for everything?

>>98268159
Long story short is another urban fantasy game from the guys who made the sequel to WoD after the owners blocked any new projects.
As far I have seen, it is on the lower end of power but the rules are more flexible, so you can have a monster mash party with minimal effort.

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How to get Kopa Loei gf?

I would send out a looking for roommate post but I'd be worried if some Mage was actually interested in living over here. Unfortunately, in the modern world us dogs can't afford to live alone. I'd mooch off a packmate ordinary though I was informed this is considered a "dick move" apparently.

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>>98267989
>I feel like even a small pack of several different Tzimisce might be too independent since dragons aren't exactly the most cooperative clan, even with loyalty to the Hive
Assuming Gestalt has similar effects for non BBs that possess it, that might not be a problem as the dragons would simply become a hydra. I apologize if im being obsessive over this, today was very stressful. Father having a major surgery, hectic day at work with a bunch of extra tasks that kept me an hour and a half later than I needed to be, a dipshit heroin junkie that I dont even want to begin with. I just needed something positive to fixate on.

>>98268497
That's rough friend, hope your dad pulls through and everything ends up okay. Gestalt seems like it would pair perfectly with the megazulo monstrosity, could be an interesting idea though I don't see it working out well for the players barring the very lategame or assistance like a tank.

>>98267674
A wonderful piece of advice given to me by /tg/ when I tried to make a custom system: don't.
What you want almost certainly exists, you just haven't heard of it, and it was made by someone more professional or more autistic than yourself. Exercise every possibility, even the indie ones from itch.io or whatever, before you set about making your own system.

Especially because attempting to make a system WITHOUT an enormous breadth of experience in different systems will result in derivative garbage to begin with.

>>98266932
No it's not, you mongoloid. How the fuck can you not see the difference between cause and effect? No-one becomes violent from video games or a psycho from roleplaying nephandus. It's the fact that someone *wants* to get into the headspace of a nephandi and roleplay the depravities involved that suggests that not all is well in their mental department to begin with.

>>98267613
I mean you can bitch all you want about it, and uou can try to completely reinterpret what nephandus are or what they do, but at the end of the day they are what they are and if you rewrite them they aren't nephandus anymore, which was the "appeal" to play them to begin with, so it again begs the question what the point would be.

Many games treat descent into genuine insanity or falls into true evil as unplsyable end states. Nephandus are no different.

>>98266771
Played a Nephandi for a while in a long running Pentex-themed game I was in with some friends. Ended up being kind of one note, not my favorite character from that game. I lifted a bunch of O9A stuff for his paradigm and basically played him as an '80s British skinhead.

>>98267739
>I absolutely hate the d10 based dice pool systems
And what is your preference?
Note: There is only one correct answer.

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>>98268497
>hydra
Hey, now that concept I like a lot more for a multi-tzimisce final boss, a way to recreate something close to the 9-dot Viscissitude power without being an elder. Heck, you could probably load each head with a unique ability through Koldunism. Or go for the same projectile ability King Gidorah style. I feel like pure Brothers are more suited to form a flesh centipede.

No worries bruv, that sounds rough. I hope your dad recovers and you manage to get some rest from all the stresst. Lord knows this is the one place I get to do some talk with anyone about how I spend my free time fantasizing about being a transsexual insect vampire in 1990's Chicago.
>>98268516
>>98268497
>hydra
Hey, now that concept I like a lot more for a multi-tzimisce final boss, a way to recreate something close to the 9-dot Viscissitude power without being an elder. Heck, you could probably load each head with a unique ability through Koldunism. Or go for the same projectile ability King Gidorah style. I feel like pure Brothers are more suited to form a flesh centipede.

No worries bruv, that sounds rough. I hope your dad recovers and you manage to get some rest from all the stress. Lord knows this is the one place I get to talk with anyone about how I spend my scarce free time from a very pressured lifestyle fantasizing about being and solo role-playing a transsexual insect vampire in 1990's Chicago.
>>98268516
Well players better get creative, I feel this is one of those problems you don't solve by just stacking more discipline dots.

>>98268491
My only requirement is a room big enough to store all the spirit tobacco my familiar requires as per chimiage. Oh, and there is the off chance that supersoldier cyborg assassins might come knocking on your door.

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>>98268516
Thank you, the surgery was a success but they are going to keep him under heavy observation for 5-7 days. Their main worry is blood clots. He suffered a catastrophic injury a couple months back. He has come home from the hospital but because of those injuries, the true recovery time will probably be a few years. This surgery was to help correct his neck and get some more mobility.
True. The concept would work best as late game antagonists/allies for the players to fight against/utilize for some grand conflict. I tend to ST more than play so I often think of things from a long term/already established perspective. I can give them as much exp as I need to get the results I want.

>>98268687
I genuinely enjoy your concept and I guarantee my azicithra/red midwife bahari would absolutely adore your character. Maybe we can get Setite-anon to doodle our characters and Bleu hanging out and enjoying warm cups from my 'Keurig'. On that note, Im going to bed. Good night, anons.

>>98268687
>I feel like pure Brothers are more suited to form a flesh centipede.
Something something vampire gattai.

>>98268425
Made for big rokea clasper

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>>98268115
Take your meds.

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typical gangrel

>>98267653
I don't know, they certainly are Wyrm-Tainted due to their practices and their philosophy, but I very much prefer Setites as they describe themselves in the Revised Clanbook. They're twisted Gnostics who see all the things that in the bigger cosmology of the WoD belong to the Astral/Higher Umbra as chains over humanity. People like the classic Pentex speculator would look to them as an Archon/Aeon with a particular taste for being a Captain Planet villain.

Doesn't mean they won't 100% feed "Apophis" by corrupting things, but for them it's just part of the process, not the end goal.

>>98268491
You better hope you don't invite any mages over. Rent will be the least of your worries. Also, the rent is going up by 25% this week.

>play WtA
>get the Hunted flaw
>talk the Hunter who wants to turn my ass into a rug into killing a bunch of fomori for me
Thank God my ST hasn't called me out on my bullshit yet.

>>98268627
>I mean you can bitch all you want about it, and uou can try to completely reinterpret what nephandus are or what they do, but at the end of the day they are what they are and if you rewrite them they aren't nephandus anymore, which was the "appeal" to play them to begin with, so it again begs the question what the point would be
But we're not talking about re-writing anything. Playing as the comically evil bad guys is the appeal. They're so evil to the point it where circles around to being funny, kinda like Pentex. There are people who enjoy playing as Henry Killinger, plotting to kill as many 3rd world children while finessing everyone around them into believing that it's for some noble cause. Playing as the villain can be fun.

let's say hypothetically i wanted to make a very short game about being a lone hunter who is on the run and not very wealthy, what would be the best material to take a peek at for inspiration? the only thing i know about this setting is the whole messenger thing and dudes having powers

>>98269902
a game? as in a videogame? Or a One-on-One ttrpg session?
also this is actually like 20 settings in a trenchcoat. You have the set of settings called oWoD, the set of settings called nWoD, and the set of settings called CofD.
And those sets are only somewhat compatible with each other..
Imbued is oWoD, which is the classic setting and probably the most popular.
Also hunted by what?? Vampires? Demon-esque abominations? Evil spirits? Ghosts? Werebeasts? Evil mages?

>>98269910
vidya.
>And those sets are only somewhat compatible with each other..
interesting. i'm guessing they're almost all suitable for modern day lone dude running from and fighting monsters
>hunted by what
long term goal is to have a build up of threats. i'd like to go for something simple that could be connected to something worse. like minions of a big bad monster. i have to brainstorm some actual specific creatures and scenarios. ideally it would be cool to eventually hit a handful of different types but things don't always work out so nicely

>>98269987
okay, so my suggestion is a bane or fomori(other splats call these creatures different things, this is the werewolf terminology which fight them most due to LORE).
Banes are evil ass spirits that exemplify all the super hitler evil things such as corruption, murder, nuclear devastation and so on. If you think "evil spirit", this is it, mostly.
A fomori is what happens if a bane possesses somebody or something and gains a physical body(enhanced with weird evil mutations).

Pros: Very variable in power/appearance/threat level, make your own monster thing, objectively evil and fucked up, death of a fomori causes the spirit to be able to come back, can lead into way worse things (Black Spiral Dancers, Evil Sorcerers/Mages, Some Vampires..)


Other suggestions: weak vampires&ghouls
camarilla for a more hoity-toity feel vampire
sabbat for more edgy killer vampires
ghouls are mortals which are addicted to vamp blood and serve vamps usually

actual capital W Werewolves (Garou) aren't normally super evil per se, they are just retarded and emotional. Unless they are Spiral Dancers. Still a monster, but possibly "misunderstood".

Mages/Sorcerers: In oWoD technology IS a form of magic, the illuminati is real and trying to make you think otherwise so they can get rid of all supernaturals, the end goal is to turn everything into oh my science!! slop. Look into the technocracy and mage for a "Men in Black" kind of enemy. Also mystical mages run the gamut of "I put on my robes and wizard hat" and weird internet mages. Some le evil for evils sake mages exist too.

And there is plenty of cross-pollination between these concepts, hence the "somewhat compatible". This is usually done in a way of saying nobody has the true full picture.

Just look through the wiki and jump through the lore articles to get a feel for the things I mentioned until you get something you think is cool, or ask if the question is sufficiently vague enough to make spoonfeeding preferable.

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>>98263045
Rate my vampire coterie

>>98270061
No slut glasses on the tremere/10

>>98270061
Highly generic late-teens-to-early-twenties zoomer doomer gooner slop.

>>98270061
Gangrel not stinky enough.

>>98270061
looks like a coterie of retarded juvenile homosexuals. In other words, exactly what the writers envisioned.

>>98269547
Hence the "various states of denial". Most Setites don't realize they're wyrmshitters, but they're still massive wyrmshitters. Their "break reality through corruption" shtick is just making the cosmic danger noodle more powerful.

>>98269581
>he gets people to kill wyrmspawn instead of doing it with his own claws and fangs

Child of Gaia or Shadow Lord?

>>98270160
Not horny enough to be a Child of Gaia, so Shadow Lord or maybe some Glass Walker.

>>98270044
sorry was away dealing with a pest problem, much thanks for the write up.

i am quite liking the idea of these banes and fomori. lots of cool stuff here in general to think about. feel so iffy on mages but i'll give it a look and see if i like it or not.

>>98269581
>Hunter (capital H) dumb enough to do his enemies bidding
The hunt has fallen...

>>98270306
Is hard to fall when you never rose up to begin with.

>>98270269
shadowlord: actually the REAL enemy is these creatures, let me explain why you should do everything I say and believe only me.
child of gaia:
serve gaia and you may touch my werewolf bazongas maybe ok??

either the Hunter was a retard or his wisdom exceeds us all

>>98269581
I've been saying this for ages, so many people get distorted views of how weak/strong/effective/practical something is because of doormat STs.

>>98270269
I just said CoG because it’s worded like he politely asked the hunter for help

>>98270343
But would the hunter resist delirium well enough to fuck her (or him) in crinos form. Because I don’t see how sex with a garou would be better than with a regular human if they’re stick with homid for it

>>98270346
Im going to puke when i say this but.. one thing I can praise v5 for is their second inquisition book really put into perspective how dangerous humanity can be. Ignoring the magical technology that lets you identify a vampire because of a slightly reduced heat signature or because they emit a frequency that, when you know what to look for, can identify them by clan and generation. They still have a wide range of tactics from necrotized flesh eating bacteria, covert strike teams, investors/politicians, doped up honeypots, deprogrammed/blackmailed ghouls, resentful caitiff/thin bloods, dumbass anarch collaborators, and even a starved tzimisce wight that acts as 1 part bloodhound and 1 part wrecking ball.

>>98270534
if we assume a high wp hunter with decent occult knowledge and the rule that allows an occult+wits roll to increase effective wp, yeah. Also capital H hunters (imbued) don't suffer delirium I think so go wild.

Also you don't have only homid, you still have the white womans choice and 90s wolfman.

>>98270534
>not having her transform mid fuck and deliriously rationalizing the need to fuck this monster into submission with the most rock hard terror boner you will ever get in your life because your life absolutely depends on getting this bitch to howl at the moon

>>98268600
>It's the fact that someone *wants* to get into the headspace of a nephandi and roleplay the depravities involved that suggests that not all is well in their mental department to begin with.
Hi goatboy. Does that mean Anthony Hopkins harbors cannibalistic urges? Does that mean Robert De Niro is a sexual predator since he played Max Cady that one time? Does that mean etc etc. Do tell please, I'm all ears.

>>98266908
what about widderslainte. they are kinda endorsed as "if you want to play a nephandus-lite, even with an inverted avatar, here you go"


though if they have an inverted avatar, use qlippothic spheres or use left handed/antinomian foci, and have a paradigm that posits the universe is a cruel illusion to escape or that absolute annihilation IS ascension what would be the difference between them and a nephandus?

>>98270642
not the guy but i suppose the difference is that mage actually is a form of chaos magick if you allow it to be and when roleplaying as say a pious catholic with catholic inspired foci and ritual like the communion while in reality you are an atheist or whatever, if you allow the game to be a tool then you are in a sense BECOMING a catholic, immersing yourself in their world and reality they live.

so if you immerse yourself as a nephandus and genuinely buy into their philosophy, even if just while playing the game and character, you could leave marks or traces of that caustic ideology in you even outside the game.

at least thats what satyros believes.

How far do you all lean in to personal horror?
I have a Hunter game coming based on the events of my last CotD game, where a werewolf went berserk in the middle of town, the pcs are either survivors or people who lost loved ones in the morass.
I have some ugly ideas to put to my players. Do you all have limits, or success stories?

>>98270534
>just said CoG because it’s worded like he politely asked the hunter for help
If anything I thought he leaked information by abandoning a folder with his enemies info during a fight. Either that or a theurge LARPed as a messenger and handed the same information like how one guy described how he discovered Hunter Net.

>>98270742
>How far do you all lean in to personal horror?
I don't really lean into it unless the characters are on the lower end of power, like a Malkavian's first feeding making him feel like shit as he effectively raped a random girl in a mall bathroom.

>>98267691
there are baali, Order of Moloch, that are actually pretty alright people they just believe its their duty to keep the sleeping Malfeans asleep with offerings of blood and suffering to keep them from eating reality. they are also anti-inferanlists in general and hunt other demonic baali. and there are also other baali from neither the nergal or moloch camp and theres nothing known about them. so there is plenty of room to play a good or normal baali

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Tell me about your Malkavians, I am populating an asylum and need some NPCs.

>>98268115
I know this is pasta but I do love the games of instinct and in my dream Sabbat game would probably start with the players starting as humans and staring down into a grave before being shovelheaded, not told shit about being vampires, and sent on a suicide mission

>>98268732
I'm unsure how I feel about spirit tobacco, the theurge says we're not supposed to encourage bad behavior.
>>98269567
I will eat the rich one day, be thankful it isn't today.

>>98270699
I understand his point just fine, it's still a retarded one.

>>98270783
What is it with individuals that are fans of straight jacket-wearing women and making them all white-haired? Exception of CC of course, who's a Stacey Greenette.

>>98270987
>women

>>98270987
Im pretty sure thats a guy.
>>98270783
Who is running the asylum? If its another malk you can run a wider gambit.

>>98271005
>>98271013
Touché, I had just assumed.

>>98270803
It's a bit of a shitpost, but read the spoiler, I'm being serious when I say the Sabbat are a gaggle of fuckups and I love them for it. I love that the one faction that's trying to stop Gehenna is doing it for all the wrong reasons, not really trying that hard in the first place, and have poisoned the well of noddism beyond recovery. But I love them for it, because they're still dangerous. To players, to the setting itself. I don't like factions comprised entirely of perfectly intelligent always rational actors. I don't want everyone to be an idiot mind you, but a good dumpster fire is a good dumpster fire.

Anyway your game idea is pretty based. Nepo-babies sired as True Sabbat are lame, all Sabbat should have to survive the shovelhead experience as their creation rite.

>>98270316
Blame the messengers for being retarded.
>Should we give powers to people who are already hunters and have experience and their own secret organisations?
>Nah, let's go with some random normies
What were they thinking?

>>98270620
I like how you think, anon.

>>98270563
>you also have white woman’s choice and 90’s wolfman
True, but crinos has the biggest cock/the pussy with the strongest grip of them all

>>98270620
Y’know what? Sure, why not?

>>98270744
Don’t the voices in the Imbued’s head yell at him when something supernatural that is not them is nearby, though?

>every captcha I got so far had moons
Is Luna trying to tell me something?

>>98270742
While I think the term "personal horror" is a bit of a meme co-opted by the worst parts of the fanbase... I'm definitely the opinion that there needs to be some genuine darkness and menace going on. Concerning the other extreme, I'm not interested in a game where we're halloween themed power fantasies getting jerked off constantly.

Everyone has a limit for how much fucked up stuff they can handle. My limit is pretty high, but even it exists. I'd probably walk out of a table where the ST is giving lengthy descriptions of horrible things happening to little kids. A lot of it also comes down to tone, I find. Whether something like someone getting raped or eaten alive comes off as gratuitous or horrifying depends on your execution as much as it does a person's sensibilities. My games can be pretty dark, but I always try to be tasteful about it.

All of this is to say it really depends on your players. If you don't know them personally, test the waters with your more pedestrian ideas first to get an idea of where their limits lie before proceeding.

>>98271070
I'm not entirely sure Crinos is safe for either of them, to be fair.

>>98271102
I think WoD is at it's peak being a campy horror kino experience with some light power fantasy with occasional moments of
>Holy shit, this nigga straight out of hellraiser just bisected the pregnant lady to spawn a literal murder demon

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>>98270783
The fact they're in an asylum already typifies them as a certain kind of madman and not all Malkavians would fit in there. My last Malk PC was a protoceltic history professor with a power object fixation on a tarot deck, which he used as a guide to how he felt about any NPC he met and how he would behave around them, like two-face with his coin. He would be scared shitless of an NPC the coterie hadn't even met, or kidnap and ghoul a random partygoer because of their "hidden potential".

You could go for the classic "the warden, nurses, or guards are actually the mad ones". IIRC the Malkavian clanbook has a Sadistic Prison Guard concept. Or maybe the Janitor has a hoarding problem and knows and has access to all the secrets. Or one of the inmates is a perfectionist trying to be the model inmate and will force everyone else to stick to the rules. ("No one allowed in the library after 8pm!").

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>>98269771
>Henry Killinger
Don't do Dr Killinger like that, just because he has a magic murder bag doesn't mean he's a nephandi.

>>98270783
Malkie who was raped and it turned her into a nymphomaniac sex addict who wants to rape people who remind her of her rapist

>>98271102
>where the ST is giving lengthy descriptions of horrible things happening to little kids
This is my script for one of the nightmares of one of the pcs.
>you see a schoolbus, horn is blaring sonorous hymns
>something hug, red, blurred, smashes in to the side
>I am too high to type this out, I'll finish this tomorro, anon, please be around

>>98271161
This guy is so professional about villainy and murder that I can't see him as anything but a very autistic Marauder, he skilled both the tech and the magic tree at the same time.

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>>98271024
>poisoned the well of Noddism beyond recovery
V5 and its vidja/larps/books/whatever decided that actually Noddism was fully acceptable by everyone to the point the Camarilla have the Church of Caine as a kind of state religion, having a Book of Nod is completely chill.

>>98270893
The only thing you'll be eating is whatever probe the good doctor will be using on you. Don't wreck the apartment, you will be billed before being handed over.

>>98271013
>Who is running the asylum?
The Malkavian primogen who is supposed to be more stable than the rest of at least charismatic enough to let the other primogen at ease.

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>>98271139
Seconding this.
>>98270742
I think the Blade/Van Helsing movies are the exact tone WoD should have for the best actual game experience. Campy high octane action to better contrast and elevate with the moments of intense serious drama and tragedy. Can't be all edge or all comedy all the time, gotta have a bit of both as they elevate each other

>>98270562
I can see where you're coming from, but the problem with V5 and the SI is that it's a hamfisted, brute force attempt to solve a problem that was always the result of ST execution rather than an actual issue with the setting. Putting aside the possibility that some tables just don't want hunters to be a major factor, which is fair, the ancient ass Hunters Hunted 1e book was already detailing how Hunters can be a threat without giving the vampires brain damage beforehand.

Heck, Vigil, my beloved, is an entire splat based around Hunters being genuine contenders and threats to the supernatural, and providing you a slew of options rather than a single homogenized blob of generic feds.

>>98271056
>What were they thinking?
If they gave their powers to veteran hunters everyone else would kill them because the fuckers act like like a mental breakdown or possession.

>>98271148
I had a draft for a sadist and masochist guard couple but had no idea how to make tweedle dee and tweedle dumb to be more interesting than that prompt.

>>98271070
>Don’t the voices in the Imbued’s head yell at him when something supernatural that is not them is nearby, though?
Only if they have a background for it so... One in 10 hunters would be in frequent contact with the messengers.

>>98270562
SI is the dumbest, most hamfisted bullshit attempt to make "humanity #1" work in a ttrpg. Only fags thinks it fits with the rest of World of Darkness.

>>98271226
V5 had The Vigil right there to take inspiration from. Instead of taking what worked (many orgs are private and the ones that aren't are compromissed by kindred), they decided to force players to believe humanity would be unified like that, in a setting where Kindred ruled in the shadow of humanity for ages, having ghouls everywhere controlling most of humanity (without being fucked by the technocracy). Another anon posted a few thread ago: it's called world of "DARKNESS" not world of humans. Don't get me started at the Vienna Chantry debacle. Fuck that shit.

How to make bank as a mage with unconventional spheres?

Matter3/Time 3/Entropy 3 is piss easy with a little thinking. Obviously some questions will be asked if you overdo it, but still.

Life 3. My first instinct would be something like pearls maybe? I'd assume making an oyster produce lots of good pearls fast would be life 3. Think you could auction pearls no questions asked.

Forces 3. Stumped here. Best I got is enhancing turbines and shit.
Prime 3. No fucking clue. Sell tass to other mages and shit, really.
Mind 3. Can't just mindcontrol somebody, but surely you can find some secrets by going through peoples head which you can exploit for money.
Correspondence 3. Dunno, with only correspondence? Can't come up with anything from the top of my head but it feels like it should be doable.
Spirit 3. Summon and "pay" a spirit to do literally what the fuck ever, I have no plan but also feel like it should be totally doable.

>>98271346
But Anon, if every region had its own variation of hunter groups the writers would have to come up with something for every book rather than just recycling the PMC concept art they had for the MMO that died in production hell!

>>98271359
Just do the opposite of primal utility to stash quint directly into your bank account

>>98271310
A group of dedicated Hunters should be scary to Kindred and a big organization should probably make you shit your pants, but you'd likely never be on their radar on the other hand and their technology borders on the magical. It's kind of a 50/50. I respect the idea but it's shit execution. I do agree though, humanity number 1 doesn't really belong in WoD otherwise it wouldn't be WoD. The potential for humanity numbah wan should be there, but not in practice. Merely the threat of it should be enough I think.
>>98271359
>Correspondence 3
Mail service or other sort of clandestine communications
>Mind 3
Perhaps scam games or gambling like Poker
>Forces 3
Maybe saving money on electricity or something, I'm not sure.

>>98271497
>Maybe saving money on electricity or something, I'm not sure.
You could sell processing power or energy if you have a wind turbine or solar panel.

>>98270699
Anon you can play make believe game of being evil without being really evil.
Just say that gives you the "nay-nay big creepies" at your table and you don't allow it and end of the story.
I hate cheap psychology bullshit so much.

>>98270950
idk i think theres credence that knowledge or perspective can affect you after encountering it. every society had myths of forbidden knowledge that changed you after knowing it

>>98271572
You do know that was a cheap excuse to keep knowledge in the hands of the privileged classes and out of reach of the commoners, right?

>>98271566
im not saying 'it makes you le evil and satanic and inverted' im saying it can bring perspective about yourself or the world that is disturbing and that can be offensive to yourself and others. not that your suddenly without empathy and skin cats alive or some nonsense, but you could find out your not as opposed to that as you thought and your initial revulsion was a value imposed on you from without not within.

basically the left hand path/antinomianism is about finding out what is a value and law you create from within and what is a law you obey from without. and that can get fucked up if you are a fucked up person. but better it be virtually practiced in game than literally which where i disagree with satyros

>>98270284
nWoD allows you to throw away most of the metaplot or the implications of the technocracy and "everything is magic Harry"!
The imbued of oWoD makes your hunter baseline more powerful, like buffy the vampire hunter.
Personally I would do nWoD hunter and give him some supernatural traits to keep him alive with the threat scalation.

>>98271359
>Think you could auction pearls no questions asked
You could just get into a pawnshop or contact a jewelry shop. On a similar note you could get a restaurant or farmers market and sell some ultra quality produce but I'm heavily biased because of how I'm aware that the fish most fish people pay half a grand for is sold for 2 bucks at the farms.

>>98271586
oh it was a metaphor on profound philosophical and intellectual knowledge that can completely destroy your world view or expand it.

>>98271612
I understand your point, but sounds like bullshit.
I can kill a kid in a videogame or a roleplaying game and I don't believe that's telling anything about my real self, because my real self happens to know how to differentiate between a make believe game and reality.
There is an element of exploration on "let's do what normally you can't do".
But personally I think it leans more on simply crossing taboos.
Some people have 0 problem killing people left and right, even innocent people. But slapping a woman or forcing her to shut the fuck up is "too much" and "crossing a line". That's just a societal taboo going haywire.

>>98271631
>Some people have 0 problem killing people left and right, even innocent people. But slapping a woman or forcing her to shut the fuck up is "too much" and "crossing a line". That's just a societal taboo going haywire.
On a game I mean :P.
An example of this is the nu-sword and sorcery scene. Killing mofos left and right but wanting Conan to respect the wamen.

>>98271359
The answer is always gambling
You can literally change reality, just get a bunch of normies hooked on gambling on random shit like the temperature at midday or how many lightning strikes there will be in an hour or whether this specific patch of dirt will have opals in it (correspondence and forces). Tell hunters there'll be rare game in the forest and use Life to make that happen. Spirit can do literally anything if you have enough Quint.

>>98271638
Maybe I'm misremembering things but the version of Conan most people remember didn't get to rape people on screen or threat that shit with a serious tone.

>>98271612
>I'm not saying X, I'm just saying (X but longer and with different wording)
Just knock it off already. We are wise to your tricks.

>>98271631
well videogames are different because you have A LOT more layers of separation than in a roleplaying game. you may design your character but it wont be the same as how you imagine your mage character in your minds eye. you may press a button to stab a sword through the model representing a child in a game but it wont be the same as your minds eye creating the scene and you actually saying outloud what you do to the imagined child in your mind, in a way you are literally casting a spell.

as for the hypothetical feminist killer i can not speak for why they would be that way but their antinomianism would be beating women and refraining from killing to explore how they feel and why they feel, what is the difference between the women i refrain from beating and the innocents i kill, ect.

you could explore that concept in mage as a widderslainte with violent urges that may even kill people that are otherwise innocent but something about them makes them feel deserved in their death but their limit is women, and thus through playing the game they are using magick to alter themselves find out why and how those feelings come about but you have to come into it with that intention or your ego with block out changes and defend itself unless you actually disarm it.

>>98271638
Did Conan not respect wahmen in the books? I don't know a ton about that character but he doesn't seem like the 'rape and plunder' type, and Conan famously has quite a few 'strong wahmen' in it. Like to the point that if it came out today it would probably be marred as woke.

>>98271670
in what part of my explanation of the latter did i say you are FORCED to do the former. if you find out you like violence are you forced to commit violence?

How are anons unironically falling for the "nephandi make you evil irl" bait?

>>98271691
they dont make you evil unless you already want to be evil, but it can make you realize what is evil about yourself. everyone has some evil aspects of themselves.

>>98271691
Slow day, we just like to argue even against evidently brain-damaged leftroons. Anyway new topic: there was a lot of grumbling about Assamites monopolizing vampiredom in the Middle East and Kuei-Jin monopolizing much of Asia, but what about Eastern Europe?

>>98271702
isn't that canonically dominated by Tzimiscie especially Old Clan Tzimiscie that have a lot of domains dotted around that are basically fiefdoms.

>>98271702
>and Kuei-Jin monopolizing much of Asia,
To be fair, that's a separate splat with it's own clans, sects, and sub-factions. It's less of an issue than a single clan getting half a continent.

>>98271652
>>98271678
Yeah Conan isn't a rapist, he's just a really manly gigachad with a high libido. He's usually fighting either unga animals or faggy "civilized" slavers. One of the recurring themes is that the "barbarian" Conan is far more honorable than the urban "civilized" people who look down on him. He does get to have unga bunga borderline animalistic strength, but he's actually quite clever. A good amount of this was based on Howard's own experiences as a big farm boy being stereotyped as a backwards retard by city slickers.

A lot of the "barbarian" stereotypes of raping, killing just for the thrill of it, is closer to the people Conan would fight rather than Conan himself. He's a pretty cool dude actually.

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>Check out the clan Tzimisce. They can become actual dragons! cool, right?
>What, you want your Tzimisce character to be able to do that too? Sorry, you must be a Methuselah to do that.
Why does White Wolf hate fun?

>>98271729
just eat one, bro

>>98271729
just diablerize a methuselah. if your rping a classic tzimisce you are already looking to rise up the hierarchy

>>98271620
i think i want to have a sort of messenger type supernatural voice who guides the pc to various locations early on. and then at some point abruptly cut that entity out for story reasons and have the pc go alone from there. been thinking about the movie 'frailty' in between levels pc would have visions and limited info about the next threat.

also was not feeling the supernatural traits at first but it would be useful for stronger threats yeah. i'll take a look at what abilities there are.

>>98271709
Eh, eastern europe is pretty damn big and the Tzimisce weren't uncontested rulers of it even in the medieval period. Back in like the 1200s there were a lot of Ventrue, Brujah, Gangrel and Nosferatu at least. Considering the Sabbat shifted a lot more towards the new world, and the Old Clan (which can mean 2-3 different things depending on who's writing in the first place) is a small fraction of the entire clan, I seriously doubt they have that strong a presence anymore.

>>98271702
>but what about Eastern Europe?
Spotty contemporary lore. There's the "Old Clan" who are either major players or completely forgotten about entirely. There's the absolute abomination that is the Soviet Union VtM lore (seriously Rage Across Russia was some stupid shit), Transylvania/Romania is detailed extensively thanks to the Transylvania Chronicles, and besides occasionally remembering Poland, the rest is often glossed over or given very basic information. Like they'll occasionally remember Prague because it's a famous old city.

Either way, even at its worst Eastern Europe does not have a problem like the middle east has with the Ass Mites and fun fact, there are actually official middle eastern versions of most clans, they just get ignored 90% of the time and weren't very well thought out. Did you know that the Ventrue are called El Hijazi? The Hijaz of course, being where MECCA AND MEDINA ARE. But they're not mentioned most of the time, and they, like the other middle eastern clan variants, are a tiny stub of lore. The Ashirra "sect" is probably the single dumbest part of VtM lore full stop.

>>98271789
oWoD hunters will gain supernatural traits inherently, is part of the metaplot that they become some sort of supernatural being called "the imbued".
On nWoD the game is designed for normal human beings with no powers
You can give them supernatural traits thou, there is even an supplement book called "second sight" that adds a lot of supernatural traits and powers for humans.

Mi recommendation is, use nWoD, start with a normal human being, if you want to make him keep up with the threat scalation start givin him small supernatural powers.

Good luck!

>>98271802
>The Ashirra "sect" is probably the single dumbest part of VtM lore full stop.
Give the gory little details please.

>>98271729
>Why does White Wolf hate fun?
Because they can't write rules worth a damn. Can you imagine the type of shit they would have to deal with if that was an option?

>>98271825
Long story short they are the result of group of vampire elders witnessing the life of Mohamed and following his religion. Because of this their bloodlines are immune to a lot of the supernatural bullshit the middle east has, like how Jerusalem is supposed to stop any vampire from sleeping with 50 miles of the place because of how many true faith places it has.
The problem a lot of them have is that they go nowhere.

>>98271807
>Mi recommendation is, use nWoD, start with a normal human being, if you want to make him keep up with the threat scalation start givin him small supernatural powers.
Yeah I think that's the way to go for this.
Thanks a bunch (._.)7

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>>98271848
That's less 'dumb' and more 'incomplete' though.
Conceptually the idea of parallel clans could make a super kino Al-Andalus game.

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>>98271239
Hmm. I would make them one a guard and another a patient. Nobody seems to mind their inappropriate boundary crossing since the guard applies his punishments to all patients equally while the submissive receives them with glee and rats on the others. Are you planning on making your players temporary captured inmates or what is your setup? I feel like a prison break arc from a grippy sock vacation would have a lot of fun potential as they need to navigate the social structure of the psychiatric.

>>98270987
>Exception of CC of course, who's a Stacey Greenette.
Code Geass? Also Shirley was best girl

>>98271673
>Conan famously has quite a few 'strong wahmen'
When Conan does encounter "strong women" in his stories (and there are fewer than you think), they are classical feminine forms of strength - they are intelligent and possess a will of iron - not girl boss action heroes. The only two strong women of any martial note are Bêlit and Valeria (both pirates, incidentally); Bêlit still relies on her crew to do most of the fighting for her (she is the brains while Conan is the brawn of their duo) and Valeria is basically a tomboy.

SEX WITH SMELLY GANGRELS!

>>98268115
>Lasombra ante
Dead?
>Tzim ante
Moved to Ney York
>Ravnos ante
Not even killed by them
There any other ones we know the fates of?

>>98272206
If you dont count ToJ then the only one we can say for certain is the Brujah ante is sealed with moloch under the salted ruins of carthage

>>98272262
>the Brujah ante is sealed with moloch under the salted ruins of carthage
Which wasconvenient for the toj writers, since brujah is one the antes that can side-step the withering.

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>>98272198
sex with anorexic nosferatu

>>98270316
Imagine having literal superpowers and you somehow have less of an impact than normal people doing the same thing as you.

>>98272427
To be fair, Imbued are basically nuetered compared to normal humans. In return for shittier versions of true fsith powers hunters permanently lose access to:
>Sorcery
>Chi
>Hypertech
>Actual True Faith
>Potentially Awakening

>>98272466
Oh wait, also:
>Psychic Powers
>Spirit Pacts
>Infernalism

>>98268648
ah interesting, O9A fit right into mage with their weird ass wyrd tree cosmology but they are more like infernalist hermeticists or euthanatos. they dont want total misanthropic nihilism, at least the original sect didn't, they were extreme darwinists that wanted to cull off all the undesirable population so humanity could advanced to the stars and create an intergalactic empire.

would just need some reworking and have them be culling the unworthy hylics or uneccesary sleepers and their goal is to only be left with a population of mages and theyd be pretty interesting villains.

>>98272466
htr players guide says they can use true faith but it detects as supernatural to other imbued, dunno about sorcery or psychic powers but don't recall it specifically saying they cant learn them.

>>98272507
>htr players guide says they can use true faith but it detects as supernatural to other imbued,
No it doesn't. In fact the book goes on a length rant about how hunters should never have the true faith merit and religion should be religated to roleplay only in order to maintain "themes".
It then tries to "compromise" that if you Absolutely HAVE to play an actually faith hunter, STs should have them take the new "Religious Devotion" merit on page 97 instead(which gives 3 extra willpower, no miracles or anything else).
>dunno about sorcery or psychic powers but don't recall it specifically saying they cant learn them.
It's in the Spellbound supplement. Hunters can't awaken or use ANY numina(no sorcery, psychic powers, hypertech, etc)

>>98272021
Shirley was okay. Not my cup of tea compared to Kallen.

>>98271720
Conan just does the gigachad make moves immediately approach instead of pussy footing, which is based. He's a pretty hypermasculine ideal male that few men can even approach, a lot like Brock Samson (Venture bros) but yeah he's no rapist.

>>98272466
To be fair, imbued do get one advantage over inquisitors.
Inquisitors capbout at 4th-dot blessings(orison>apprentice>acolyte>judge).
Imbued have the potential to break past human limits and gain 5th dot divine powers.

>>98272565
It's hilaripus that half-splats can get hit with the imbuing, but sorcerers, inquisitors, psychics, and shih can't. Numina are literally just skills any unimbued can learn.

>>98272466
>>98272606
>You become metaphysically crippled for live in return for getting shitter versions of the magic you could have gotten by going to church on sundays
>You have the "advantage" of being allowed to make your crippling more physical and horrifying in order to gain one 5th dot power that's still shitter than most 5th dot human powers
Inquisitors are just objectively better.

Let's be real. Imbued Hunters are fucking gay and retarded. The appeal of being a mortal hunting vampires and shit is that you don't have shit and are just joe schmoe with a shotgun and nothing to lose. No idea what the fuck they were thinking doing the gay angel messenger shit instead of going for the obvious.

>>98272686
It's a bit of an unfortunate necessity that human hunters get there own "super" upgrades at some point.
Pure baseline hunters get absolutely wrecked the moment they face something more competent than an isolated neonate or cub straight out of their first change. Humanity as a species could absolutely wipe out all splats in the setting, but that is because of superior numbers and funding. Your local hunter group has neither superior number nor military funding.

>>98272760
Even sorcerers are significantly cooler than Imbued. So is truefaith and any and all of the half-splats. You SHOULD be groups of mooks going up against things vastly outside of your paygrade using surprise, underestimation and liberal application of firepower. If you really HAVE to give hunters special snowflake powers, "edges" are much better thematically, but still completely unnecessary considering the breath of available other options.

>>98272686
>Imbued Hunters are fucking gay and retarded
They are literally Buffy, so there is/was some appeal for the theme.

>>98272646
>>98272606
The problem are the imbued or the inquisitors power creeping?

>>98272776
>and any and all of the half-splats.
Numina aren't half-splays, they're humans living up to their full potential. Sorcery, true faith, etc, are powers all humans Should be using if humanity wasn't basically blindfolded and enslaved by the various splats trying to rule/destroy the world.
Half-splats are shit like ghouls, dhampirs/dhampyrs, possessed, kinfolk, kinains, etc, that are just weak offshoots of a more prominant splat.

>>98272799
Inquitors have existed since 2e with the book "inquisition", so imbued are literally just shittier inquisitors.

>>98272820
arguable. 3 dots in numina make it so you are immune to delirium for example afaik. You could argue that a mage is also just a human at full potential.
My definition of half-splat is anything I can combine with a lot of other shit. So I can be a kinain-kinfolk-sorcerer for example.

if imbued weren't gimped so they couldnt use numina they wouldnt be as bad and imbued would be to hunters what mages are to sorcerers, the 'chosen few'.

>>98272834
>3 dots in numina make it so you are immune to delirium for example afaik.
How werewolves think delerium works and how it actually works are very different.
Fomori can gain delerium against all supernaturals despite no "ancestral fear" bullshit.
>You could argue that a mage is also just a human at full potential.
Not really. Mages are completely delusional, as avatars are foreign entities grafted onto human souls artificially. All the lore around psychpomps and vampirism prove this.
If you can get mugged by a tremere and then meet your same avatar attached to someone else a millenia later, then it was never actually your soul.
>My definition of half-splat is anything I can combine with a lot of other shit.
By that definition, dhampyrs would not be half-splats. Their book explicitly states their template never stacks.

>>98272606
>Imbued have the potential to break past human limits and gain 5th dot divine powers.

yeah but only for their final stand. imbued are not meant to surrive fights in which they unlock the 5 dot edges that's why they are so powerful

for all it's pro humanity taking back the world! themes in htr imbued are canon fooder used by eldritch beings who don't care about them at all
>>98272629
acording to Spellbound everything that can be called a "spell" or "magic" is incompatible with the changes the watchers do with the imbued. this may or may not be on purpose however as the mage st revised book also says that the watchers are closely related to the metaphysical force of paradox

>>98272881
all mages beyond arete 1 or 2 know avatars are not the exact same as their souls

also the only template dhampyrs can stack with is imbued funnily enough because they wanted to allow you to make Blade, so id allow them to take any numina they besides being imbued

>>98272886
>why they are so powerful
>so powerful
>5th doy edges
Compared to what? They weaker than many 5th dots of vampire disciplines.
Hell they're weaker than some judge(4th dot) blessings.

>>98272896
>the only template dhampyrs can stack
No, dhampirs can stack the imbuing
Dhampyrs are the eastern half-vampires made by horny kuei jin.

>>98272898
compared to the other edges. there is a pretty big jump between 4 and 5 because again it's meant to be the imbued awesome final stand when you get to use them

but you know white wolf couldn't write rules for shit and the two revised games been rushed out like hell so they are a total let down rules wise

>>98272906
oh thought you were talking about the mortal children of 15th gen vampires.

>>98272906
>They literally only changed one letter
The lazyness of whitewolf writers is awe inspiring. They're like enfleshed demons of pride and sloth.

>>98272881
>different kinds of delirium
arguable, these are just abstractions that share the same mechanics not 100% the same power.
>mages
If a tremere embraces you you are dead. The person who has your avatar is your reincarnation. You are a corpse puppeted by the Beast. Or that would be one way to explain this, at least. Psychopomp lore is weird. Objectively, word of god it is supposed to be "nobody really fucking knows. Make up your own true explanation." My own preferred headcanon interpretation is that avatars are actually super speshul spirits, but they are specifically the spirits of the concept of the mage itself that is possessing the mage or something like that. I just find that really funny, desu.
>dhampirs
didn't know this, sounds like a weird fucking exception?? Aren't they just revenants but free?? And I wouldn't know why this is done. If this is true then I guess it's not a halfsplat?

>>98272913
nta but you weren't white wolf really made dhampyrs and dhampirs different things

the first being the kuei jin minor splat and the other being the kids of 15th gen

the later can become imbued acording to BJD despite the htr books saying that even being a normie who has supernatural friends being too much for the messengers to ever chose you

>>98272928
this is why imbued and dhampires should have access to numina.

>>98272917
>The person who has your avatar is your reincarnation
Except that doesn't work. Vampires still have their souls, multiple disciplines, blood magics, and the fact they can become wraiths prove this.
Hell wraiths are another hole in that too, because wraiths lose their avatar, but get reincarnated if they get oblivioned(revealed in ends of empire). An avatar and a former mage can reincarnate in different people entirely and the former mage can get a new, different avatar.
The mage lore around the avatar storm further highlights this, because the majority of avatars in it are avatars that were imprisonned before they could find their first host. Toj further reveals most humans don't even have an avatar yet.

>>98272939
>Avatars are revealed to be canonically aliens by both early and ToJ lore, but this is never touched on or explored again
What the actual fuck?

>>98272939
>toj reveals most humans don't even have an avatar yet
Isn't it stated in a bunch of different fucking places that all humans, no matter whom, has an avatar? Isn't toj completely retconned and also it's like explicitly multiple different mutually exclusive scenarios which all reveal substantially different metaphysical truths about world of darkness??

>>98272917
>The person who has your avatar is your reincarnation
that's not true even by mage lore. avatars are outside forces fused with human souls by deep umbra psycochomps
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Psychopomp_(MTAs)
a Widderslainte is also not a reborn nephandus but a new human fused with a inverted avatar this is important because unlike first gen nephanti it gives them some degree of freedom that their avatar needs to manipulate which is why they are playable even in m20 (there is the Widderslainte flaw) while nephanti aren't despite the fact that magically they are nephanti already

>>98272957
>Isn't it stated in a bunch of different fucking places that all humans, no matter whom, has an avatar?
eeh books really dance around that. there are powers that allow you to awaken people but there are books that also say that only a small % of people can awaken and even in a total tradition victory timeline they don't manage total mass awakening and don't know why and a vampire who is bought back to life may or may not get a new avatar, no avatar or their old avatar the red sign book just shrug and say it's up to your st

>>98272939
>>98272949
>>98272957
>>98272963
>The deep magic lore is most schizophrenic than flat earth theories
Is anyone actually surprised?

>>98272957
yes ToJ should be treated as a 'take as you please' set of scenarios and lore. it throws in a bunch of different ideas whether it was actual scrapped ideas from production or newly created ones for ToJ

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>>98272646
Common Inquisition W

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I can't believe they got away with making the same game twice

>>98272980
Yeah it's like how apparently hermetics train sorcerers and sorcerers are more likely to awaken but also there is "primers" which if understood cause you to awaken? So I assume the sorcery training is a way to make the hermetic primer understandable?
Personally I think this is cool as fuck but also primers aren't treated like the absolutely fucking world-shaking thing they seem to be? With like multiple books going oh awakening is so super rare and can not be forced even by super mega mages.
I guess this is where the "nobody fucking knows" of world of darkness really shines, even with the books I don't fucking know.

>>98272917
>Aren't they just revenants but free??
Pretty much except they dont have family disciplines or a bloodline weakness. They can go beyond 1 dot in a discipline but like a revenant, it requires a vampire of low generation to 'sponsor' them.

>>98273012
>Yeah it's like how apparently hermetics train sorcerers and sorcerers are more likely to awaken
here is the thing they don't and they aren't this is a hermetic lie. the sorcerer books point out that sorcerers in sorcerer orgs don't tend to awaken and the hermetic just have a house look for unawakened mages and then pretend that their training from hell that does nothing but slow down the awakening does the work
>>98256969

>>98273012
>and sorcerers are more likely to awaken
Thevopposite actually. Sorcerers are LESS likely to awaken. The actual reason hermetics put their students threw completely arbitrary and unnecessary training is the same reason they did it in whitewolfs ars magicka line: because Their masters made them do it, so now every apprentice should. How dare these new apprentices expect the house of hermes to make their program more effective.

>>98273035
Another fucking downright retarded take, who would have thought. And I am pretty sure it's once again contradicted by a bunch of other books stating those close to the mystical are far likelier to awaken. Still picrelated implies the program is what turns those with potential into actual mages, so having the potential is a pre-requisite, but the training realizes it.
Also once again, contradicting lore about primers, which to be fair, is also an one off and never again mentioned sort of thing.

>>98273025
only in toj/revised. the v20 version can't be ghouled or embraced and can't gain disciplines above 1 in any way

> Disciplines: Potence 1. Spend 1 additional dot on a Discipline from this list: Animalism, Auspex, Celerity, Dominate, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Presence. Other Disciplines are subject to having an in-character teacher and Storyteller’s permission. Dhampirs can never learn more than the first dot of any Discipline.

>The Dhampir’s vampiric heritage makes it impossible for her to become a changeling, demon, mage, mummy, werewolf, or their related kin. She can be blood bound to a vampire, thoughshe does not become a ghoul. A Dhampir can become Imbued, but does not lose their Dhampir template
can't have the blade rip off be actually powerful i guess

>>98273063
>Another fucking downright retarded take, who would have thought. And I am pretty sure it's once again contradicted by a bunch of other books stating those close to the mystical are far likelier to awaken
Nope. This one is actually one of the most consistent bits of lore in mage, as both the sorcerer and order of hermes traditipn books cooberate it. Ars Magicka was a favorite of the writers at the time, so they had a lore bible for their references to it in other games.

>>98273065
does "related kin" include sorcerers/numina usage?

>>98273063
the justification is that when you rely on sorcery you are basically just copying a mages rotes they have formed into a learnable program. sorcery is coding with a language like python or java, True Magick is learning machine code to create your own programming language.

the hermetics get their students into a rut in their mind just learning the same spells and metaphysics, eventually those that awaken dont even realize they have awoken because they basically start learning how to manipulate the world along the same rules the hermetics taught them, so it goes from an instant revelation to a slow programming.

>>98273079
I never read Ars Magica, really should.
It does however still contradict the implication of primers, which would very naturally tie in here. And if the text there is anything to go by it doesn't state those undergoing the training are less likely to awaken, only that the more important part of the hermetic training is actually finding people with potential. I assume the text's from the tradition book, and the m20 sorcerer texts provide that mages in orgs like the arcanum don't tend to awaken?
Which is itself weird, I could've sworn there was lore that stated this was actually the case. Also it could also imply that these sorcerer orgs are doing it wrong.

>>98273085
Depends on book/ST
According to time of thin blood? Yes. They'd need the numina comverted to a discipline to learn it.
According to V20? No.

>>98273110
Okay, why the fuck are you stuck on primers and think sorcerers being unlikely to awaken naturally contradict that?
Sorcerers can be awakened artificially by magic just like everyone else. Sorcerers with path of alchemy 6 can even make potipns of awakening too. What sorcerer CAN'T do is awaken naturally the way non-sorcerer humans can.

>>98272002
>Are you planning on making your players temporary captured inmates or what is your setup?
No not at all, they are just punished with helping the Malkavian primogen after needing help to cover up their mistake and the Prince is getting some favors on the side for letting one his kids involved with this bullshit.

>>98272206
>There any other ones we know the fates of?
Ventru kicked the bucket god knows how long ago despite some plot hooks in an earlier book. There's another one who doesn't do shit but I'm too drunk to remember if they ever had a scenario who confirmed her death.

>>98273110
>m20 sorcerer
Throw that book out. It's an abomination that has no place in any table. Even the M20 mage books tell you to use Sorcerer Revised.

>>98273129
never read it whats the problem. isnt it just a compilation of more numina paths to use.

>>98273085
mortal sorcerers aren't a thing in v20* at all sorcerers only been bought back in dav20 and m20. v20 meanwhile only has theurgists in hunters hunters and that's a merit not a template and dhampir can take all non vampire specific merits

>A Dhampir is ultimately mortal rather than vampire. She has no Clan weakness, may not gain vampire-specific Merits or Flaws
so a theurgist dhampir would work by raw in v20. a sorcerer depends on which books you take because in revised sorcerers are also just humans while in m20 they are their own template/creature type rules wise

while in revised they can't learn sorcery (even when revenants can) and need to convert those into disciplines... something they are specifically called out for not being able to do in v20 anymore
>and cannot create new Disciplines. Nor can she create blood bonds, ghouls, or childer. She can, however, conceive mortal children, eat food, and walk in sunlight


*well the true black hand book uses the word "sorcerer" for awakened mages because the book itself hates us all

>>98273135
No it's a complete overhaul in the same way W5 was to werewolf.
M20 sorcerer is absolute harbage and should join Wraith20 and the WoD5 books in the trash incinerator.

>>98273119
Primers state something like "if you understand this book you awaken", and I assume hermetic sorcery/training helps you understand a hermetic primer.
Artifically awakening people is said to either be unfathomably impossibly rare or downright impossible (contradicted by Primers existing, if that's artificial.)
Alchemy 6 is like, insanely fucking powerful. And really?? Is there some fucking line that says sorcerers CAN'T awaken naturally?? That'd be so fucked up.
>>98273129
I know, I know. But presumably it's more canon than revised? I don't know. It's full of hilarious retarded shit. The entire quintessence/mana background thing is the funniest to me.

>>98273119
You could argue something about how numina are a separate entity who stop awakening like some of the other superb shenanigans along the Psychics.

>>98273152
You know what? Why tho?

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>>98273005
They’ve got nothing in common, anon.

You’d better learn the differences between them if you hope to survive your first few weeks as a knight purging those shit out of the middles ages.

>>98273153
>But presumably it's more canon than revised?
Genuonely no. All the M20 mage supplements reference revised when the sorcerer topic comes up, and sorcerer revised is even reference in werewolf20 as well.
The sorcerer20 books are essemtially non-canon even in the 20th anniversary line.

>>98273169
But that's because sorcerer20 came out afterwards, no? Theoretically, they should have written sorcerer 20 to be an updated version of revised. In practise they broke a bunch of shit, copypasted shit wrongly and generally just fucked it up.

>>98273153
>Primers state something like "if you understand this book you awaken", and I assume hermetic sorcery/training helps you understand a hermetic primer.
Primers are artifacts. They aren't books, they spells in physical form that artificially awaken people using True Magick to cheat the process. Awalening with one is the same as using an Alchemy 6 potion of awakening.

>>98273153
>Alchemy 6 is like, insanely fucking powerful.
The weirdest thing about sorcerer revised is that it doesn't actually treat the 6th dot in paths as very special like 2e WoD: Sorcerer did.
Players can just buy it if they have the 42 xp with no fanfare. No spwcial requirements. Sorcerers aren't even particularly rare in comparison to mages, so a few Alchemy 6 sorcerer running around any given horizen realm or technocrat construct wouldn't be weird.

When Sorcerers use mana to lower a spell's difficulty, I'm guessing that it affects all the rolls in an extended action, right? Would it also affect the Intelligence + Occult rolls of any assistants, or does it only affect the sorcerer that spends the mana?

>When performing Path or ritual magic, a sorcerer may spend Mana to lower the difficulty target number. As usual, her difficulty cannot be lowered by more than three; however, Mana may reduce threshold instead, though never below one.

>One sorcerer (usually the most skilled) is chosen as the prime caster, makes all rolls for the spell and determines how any aspects are set.
>Each assistant rolls her magic check as well, to see if she succeeds in helping the lead spellcaster. Two sorcerers can operate together without a problem (aside from the clash of personalities, magical styles, foci, agendas...); each additional sorcerer adds one turn to the casting time for the spell. Each successful assistant reduces the difficulty of the leader's magic roll by one, to a minimum difficulty of 3.

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Wanted to try working on something a little less comical for Shark.

>>98273129
>>98273153
>>98273169
Could you please clear up a thing for me about Sorcerer Revised?

I've been rereading the section on aspects, and does it seem like the dots you have in a Path might basically count as aspect successes (assuming of course the roll itself succeeds)?
>by according dots from the Path rating into the various aspects
>The default success for a Path assumes casting the spell on one target for the Path's usual specified duration
>if your sorcerer has three dots in a Path, then the typical spell hits the third aspect level at best
It almost seems like if for example a normal 3 dot spell was cast by someone with 3 dots with everything else at minimum it'd just require a single success, that if you're doing the minimum for each level the only thing that changes is the Difficulty.
Which would almost line up with Sorcerer pre-Revised, in which only particularly strenous spells require one success per Path level:
>Most Hedge Magic spells require a single success to perform. Really strenous spells - difficult Healings or Enchantments, storm brewing, etc - require one or two successes per Path level before they'll work.

On the other hand, M20 would support the idea that you need successes for everything - M20 even makes all Aspects start at zero instead of one. Except that would mean treating M20 Sorcerer as a canon and reliable source of information.

What do you think?

>>98273467
The Aspect text from Revised for reference:

>Some spells have aspects (or effect components), parts of the spell that the sorcerer must specify prior to casting. When a spell is cast, the player determines how much he wants to emphasize each aspect, by according dots from the Path rating into the various aspects. In essence, a sorcerer must divide up successes among various aspects of the spell, just like a mage - affecting multiple people requires several successes, extending the duration requires extra successes and so on. The default success for a Path assumes casting the spell on one target for the Path's usual specified duration. Anything beyond this requires extra successes placed in the aspects, to gain additional targets, longer duration, wider area, stronger effect and so on. Each Path lists several aspect possibilities. These aspects show the typical limits of the Path at that level of casting - if your sorcerer has three dots in a Path, then the typical spell hits the third aspect level at best. If you wish, you can cast the spell with a lower aspect; since you use the highest aspect to determine difficulty, this means that a sorcerer with a high level in a Path can cast lower-level effects more easily. Each aspect that you invoke beyond the first level costs one success - so many Paths require two or three successes to affect anyone other than the caster for more than a moment. Conversely, if you score enough successes, your Storyteller may allow you to pick a higher level aspect: If you manage to double your required successes, you can push one aspect a level above your normal limit! Thus, on a really good roll, your sorcerer might cast a spell with a much stronger effect or longer duration than normal.

>>98273390
>When Sorcerers use mana to lower a spell's difficulty, I'm guessing that it affects all the rolls in an extended action, right? Would it also affect the Intelligence + Occult rolls of any assistants, or does it only affect the sorcerer that spends the mana?
Only the person spending the mana gets the difficult reduction
On a side note, Mana is way more useful than quintessence. Difficulty reduction caps at -3, but unlike quint, spending mana passed the reduction cap allows you to reduce threshold(reduired successes).
This means if you have mana 5 and -3 to diff to a roll from resonance, you can spen 5 mana for 5 EXTRA SUCCESSES.
There are also merits that allow you to spend mana on any physical, mental or social roll in addition to spells...
>>98273467
>>98273470
>Could you please clear up a thing for me about Sorcerer Revised?
You get the first dot in all aspects if you get at least one success.
Getting extra adfitional successes from having a high path rating is an optiomal rule the ST might not be using.
If using extra success for path rule, than the extra success are split among aspect like normal. If you have path of hellfire 5 and get one success on the roll, you'll have 1 automatic success in damage, range, damage type, and area by default and have 5 bonus successes to SPLIT between those 4 aspects. Raising them all to 2 would cost 4 of those 5 bpnus successes.

>>98270061
Would.

is something supposed to make me question the goodboy faction status of Craftmasons at some point in MTSC books

>>98273601
no they are the salubri of the techonmages. they get killed of later to show that the order of reason is losing their way

>>98273110
>I never read Ars Magica, really should.
mages in ars magica call it "the gift" which is why that term still shows up in hermetic lore in mage sometimes

the gift also made it so that other people HATE you unless you had a specific merit. This included other mages unless they been protected by the Parma magica spell which is why the order of hermes was the only large order of mages in this (the order of odin is optional canon), why the first gens of hermetics been confrontational fellows, why House Tytalus was the way it was (founder considered that part of the parma magica to be a bug and not a feature) and why a lot of the older tremere characters in vtm have the backstory of "i nearly got lynched but got saved when tremere showing up" or "my parents hated me and sold me to a strange stranger" because that how they got apprentices back in ars magica and the og tremere lore was writen with that still being canon

mage turned the gift into avatars and removed the weirdness aura on unawakened mages but and that's where the whole not everyone could awaken thing comes from

>>98273528
>you can spend 5 mana for 5 EXTRA SUCCESSES.
Wait, so so a sorcerer with high Mana Manipulation and the mind power/force of spirit/flow of ki merits could just add mana successes to any roll?
It's a shame quint is pretty hard to get reliably.

>>98271729
Just play Mage.

>>98273417
Looks pretty cool, thank you for the art!
(・∀・)

>>98271729
Or you can just be a Changeling with Metamorphosis 5

>>98272686
>No idea what the fuck they were thinking doing the gay angel messenger shit instead of going for the obvious.
Think for like half a second, they already did that shit with Hunters Hunted and they realised how fucked anh of them are against any social powers because who gives a shit about celerity against mortals when Presence can just stun mortals into stupidity.

>>98273860
enjoy your annual permadox

I think you’re all missing the point. The Imbued are expendable pawns. If they ever want to achieve their true powers, they have to willingly surrender themselves entirely to the Messengers’ will. Otherwise, even if they achieve 5th level Edges, it would only be because they’re close to burning out anyway.

>>98273980
We are deliberately missing the point because "oh yeah those guys are basically fomorian" is a conversation killer.

>The Imbued’s Hunter Code is in the captcha
W-what does it mean?

>>98273999
I'm sorry anon, you have to take arms against the supernatural.
Either that or the messengers are trapped here in some wyrm "I have no mouth and I must scream" type shit.

>>98273105
>the justification is that when you rely on sorcery you are basically just copying a mages rotes they have formed into a learnable program.
Even if the Sorcerer book is pretty adamant that Sorcerers are not in fact just shittier Mages.

WtFAnon with another question, this time about Totems.

I like the idea that the groups first Siskur Dah is to obtain their totem. They find it, hunt it down and beseech it for aid (by ways and means). I'm reading through the Pack under recommendation, but I can't find anything about the downsides of Totems.

They're spirits (generally rank 1-3) who serve as the packs patrons and ambassadors in the Hisil essentially, but aren't they also at risk of spiralling out of control as all Spirits want to do? They're not people, they're animistic spirits that want to spread their influence, gain essence and grow. Being on the side of the Essence-lawnmowers that are the Uratha seems like it's just asking for Totems to get too big for their boots and need to be culled?

Am I misunderstanding something here?

>Hunters have to be Imbued because because normal humans that become aware of the truth are mages
Would you rather cut being imbued to play normal human Hunters at the cost of Mages, or cut Hunters to keep Mages as the only humans fully aware of the super natural?

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98274409

>>98274149
It has been a while since i last played WtF, but as far as i remember the Pack keeps it's Totem stable as part of the deal struck between them. Afterall the Spirit can't fullfill it's part of the deal if it acts like a fool.
Totem bound spirits go loco though, but when they do it should be a meaningfull adventure, or part of a bigger chain of events.

>>98273860
No, thank you.
I am not a homosexual.

>>98274409
I know this is bait, but i would cut both. Imbued are a stupid concept, vigil hunters do it better. Same for mages. Complete waste if effort that just ends up an anime power scaler weirdos wank fantasy

>>98274528
I would say it's more of a cultivation wuxia power fantasy personally. Also
>wank

>>98274515
You actually aren't allowed to play any of the splats then.

>>98274515
No one said you have to play as the Traditions, Anon.

>>98274551
You don't have to but playing a technocrat requires more ST effort or you are better off playing another game.

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>clan discipline allows on to control the shadows
>clan name means "the shadow" in Spanish
bravo

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>>98275102
>clan name is spanish for witch
>clan discipline is not blood magic
Huh?

>>98273105
>the justification is that when you rely on sorcery you are basically just copying a mages rotes they have formed into a learnable program.
Except that's not true at all and it's a mage book that points this out.
Humans that copy rotes, acolytes, are a different practice and category from sorcerers entirely.
>>98274139
>Even if the Sorcerer book is pretty adamant that Sorcerers are not in fact just shittier Mages.
Hpnestly, I cut mages entirely and use sorcerers instead whenever there's a crossover game. There's fewer mechanics headaches or weird powerlevel spikes.

>>98275345
It's almost as if the premise of mage is out of WoD's scope most of the time.

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>>98275233
>clan called venTrue
>they lie all the time
excuse me???

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This is how I Thallain.

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>>98270061
>Carpet
>Carpet
>Reeking Carpet
>Carpet
>Carpet

>>98275480
>Clan of vampires
>Name their clan "vampire."
10/10

>>98271346
Vigil's great because it's very complicated, since it's not a list of antagonists, but a full playable splat. Going up the tiers is usually an upgrade, but there are fringe benefits to remaining an isolated cell. No obligations, no red tape, no rules of engagement. But unlike H5 making that choice for you, you can be in a big group, deal with the bullshit that comes from organization, to reap the benefits. It respects your choice.

And what the drawbacks of being in a compact/conspiracy is depends on the group in question. Valkyrie is compromised by rich vampires in Washington, sure. But other conspiracies have different problems. Cheiron might be secretly working for aliens, or they're just slaves to capital. The Lucifuge doesn't seem to have any external puppeteers, but they're a cult of personality based around one highly mysterious, highly suspect woman, with a belief that only their way of doing things can ensure that demon-blooded don't go off the deep end. Even further down the rung with compacts, the Long Night are evangelical apocalyptists and the Union, despite in many ways being the poster boy for Vigil, often suffers from both a strained logistics system and the indecisiveness that comes from democracy.

Vigil's just a great game.

>>98275726
I would argue that any lesser template would be on part or above Tier 3 Hunters in terms of power/xp. That any fucker with the stuff from the Reliquary book is a better version of the Aegis Kai Doru unless you build your own high drawback artifact.

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Does anyone have a copy already?

Did the Courts of the Damned pdf ever get uploaded here?

>>98275951
As far as I know, no but check the Megas on the OP.

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>'Lasombra are Ventrue but cooler!'
how do you defend the honor of the Clan of Kings without sounding mad?

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>>98276203
*Ventrue but poorer

>>98276203
What is there to defend? As much as I like the Ventru kit, I would rather play Lasombra if their name wasn't that creatively bankrupt and I didn't have to haggle with the ST in most games.

>>98271363
>if every region had its own variation of hunter groups the writers would have to come up with something
Even worse, they'd have to work with all the groups they already have and we all know they'd fuck it up.

>>98276282
Things like lasombra and toreador are such dumb names lol.
They should have invented something better, the clans should reference the vampires that created them.