Loving Tzimisce gf futa cock!

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So are the LA by Night or NY by Night live plays good or fun? NWG is taking too long to release episodes and I need something to listen to while at work.

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>TQ
Never heard of World of Shadow. I have something to research

Anyway, Mahokinawaanon here. Didn't post about last weekend's game because it was just a quick visit to Yakushima plus a bunch of prep. The Tremere Regnent, Keiko, asked Andrew to go to Berlin now that Himmler's popped back up (little shit faked Final Death in a modified version of Berlin by Night's events and now showed up again, ghouling Germany's civilian government.)

I did some side stories throughout the week with Hana (our youngest meguca. Formerly tied with Aiko at 12, but after she tanked a few Childminds from Dracula Flow, our trujah made her 5 so her mind could actually heal) She was patrolling with Mika & Misa, two Princesses employed by the Toreador arms dealer we've gotten in with. Misa is also packing Soultaker, and some Brujah Antitribu shitter decided to jump them. Mika threw a magic spear that exploded with white phosphorus on him, then Misa made the flames stronger with Lore of Flame for two turns before cutting his ass in half.

Anyway, if that made no sense, I am sleep deprived in an attempt to fix my shit sleep schedule in time for tomorrow night, when the group goes to Berlin and meets with our rich German meguca.

Oh and Hana convinced Aiko to try a dress on. She didn't like it at first, but it's growing on her. Pic related.

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>>98330763
you're an unrepentant gooner but you have a point
using vicissitude to turn yourself into a tall futa mommy with huge milkers and cock makes more sense than fleshcrafting yourself into yet another uggo monster with bone protrusions

>>98330889
Oh, that's right. It's the in-universe Pentex parody. I'm retarded.

Oh and I forgot to mention Sanae embraced a retarded alcoholic girl from the Society of Leopold. She shot Airi, our trujah, in the back of the head, and Airi is one of the few people Sanae actually likes. So fuck you nun, you get to be what you hate now.

>>98330897
Sanae did this at one point to our golden retriever Kinain, Hibiki. It ended poorly after Hibiki was nearly executed for mass rape.

>>98330897
My most holy calling is to turn everyone in the world into cute girls. There will be no resistance. All flesh shall be girl.

>>98330897
nta but id fleshcraft myself into a futa but with moderate breasts. id get a futa girlfriend, give her bigger breasts and areolas, but make sure her dick is smaller than mine. i would also insist she sucks on my breasts while i set the thrust pace.

>>98330812
I could not listen to LA because the brujah was so insufferable that it was impossible to enjoy the parts that weren't bad. The Anarach side of NY is much better than the Cam side, the Cam players are all retards except for the Nos who's character is supposed to be retarded.

So, our Tremere Chantry chronicle using the VtM to VtR fan translation has finally started, set in 2009 during a lull in the war with the Sabbat for São Paulo, and our apprentices are:

- Information science graduate that helped with the development of the Path of Technomancy back in 98. Has the Mage Blood flaw, so she can't learn Disciplines, only blood sorceries.
- Necrophiliac funeral parlor owner, she's member of House High Saturday (Tremere into Necromancy) alongside the Regent, has dealings with a Giovanni. Also has Mastery of the Mortal Shell.
- Goth boy, briefly a mortal sorcerer but he got caught robbing graves for ritual purposes. Spent most nights in the chantry (Cloistered), but now he wants a girlfriend because "what's being a vampire without the romance?". Learning the Hearth Path
- Athlete with a degree in museology embraced for martial purposes (me), taught Lure of Flames and Path of Mars.

(Everyone's primary is Path of Blood, of course)

First session was just us taking the goth boy to Elysia for the first time (in the setting each clan keeps an Elysium open all nights, but not necessarily with an event going on). We checked out the Nosferatu elysium in their brand-new surface territory taken from the Sabbat in the previous chronicle, and I might've gotten a job opportunity helping them exterminating Szlachta left behind in the sewers.

Goth boy asked a Nosferatu girl if she knows anything about vampire dating, but the necrophiliac advised him about that being a bad idea. And the technomancer talked to a SchreckNet guy about a plan to implant and control public surveillance cameras (their territory, like ours, is a separate municipality).

We also went to the Ventrue elysium afterwards, but nothing really exciting there. All in all, a more relaxed introduction session.

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>>98330897
Flesh crafting aesthetics are an underdeveloped but that's expected given their unplayable status.

Fucking knock it off with the pornbrained retarded coomer bullshit and discuss something with actual relevance to the actual goddamn game for once. Go to fucking FurAffinity or whatever if you can't stop yourself from sperging publicly about your retarded porn fantasies. God I'm so sick of this shit, thread after thread after thread gets clogged with this retardation and the braindead cocksucking trannies we have for a mod team do nothing. I'm sick of it. Fuck off. Kill yourself. Either works for me, but fucking STOP.

Any benefits or arguments for playing nWoD 1e over CofD or is it just a meme?

>>98330812
I liked the NY anarchs more. Dysfunctional is a way that made for good radio drama while commuting.

Why did the Setites get such an overhaul in DaV20? Serpentis is basically an entirely new Discipline & the Witches of Echidna seem like an unnecessary addition of giving yet another Clan three Castes.

>>98331215
it's not just dav20 older dark age editions already had the different serpentis powers. i guess it was meant to support the storyline that the setties have in the dark age books which is that the modern hedonist setites are heretics that took over the clan because their heresy was "easy" to learn and practice in comparison to the orthodoxy

no idea about the witches though those are really new

>>98331204
It's a meme unless you really like or need some of the early gimmicks.
Changeling was a lot weaker apparently and that allows the ST to strangle the group using their pledges.

>>98331215
>Why did the Setites get such an overhaul in DaV20?
Because the people behind that probably disliked them and decided to make them fit whatever they liked.

>>98331085
>the brujah was so insufferable
that's called good roleplay anon, every brujah is canonically an insufferable ass

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>>98331187
So long as the porn fantasies are even tangentially related to a splat book there's not all that much you can't post.

Get another topic to talk about, including but not limited to...
>Game stories
>Shit you are working on
>How your own fetishes play into the game
>How WOD has a good time not being a degenerate fuel factory.

>>98331288
Or Christof Romuald, but we can't all be the least cringe frenchman.

Anyway, working on a list of homebrew combo disciplines. Will share them at a later date.

>TQ
Human The Protagonist or Warlock The Pretentious

How do you decide starting equipment for players in CofD? I know the rules for purchasing equipment in play, but how do you limit it at start, would you just multiply their starting Resource Dots by 2 & let them purchase equipment that way?

>>98331248
Wasn’t aware of that in the older DaV editions. The Wtiches are seemingly used to justify the Setites knowing sorcery in DaV20 which feels unnecessary & seemingly contradicts it being a gift from Set. I’m willing to accept the Salubri having a secret third Caste, but I even feel that the Assamite Viziers really don’t need to exist either.

>>98331310
Just use the resource rating & the availability rules core has that allows you to get stuff using the skill rating at character creation.

>>98331322
again no idea about the witches they even contradict some of the older editions which did state that the setites started to downplay setite sorcery during that time because they tremere flooded the blood sorcery market and because the tremere been under the (probably right) assumption that their magic tricks are the only thing keeping them alive they been violent to other blood sorcerers and the setites wanted to have a good relation with the new clan (they even had a alliance before the tremere dropped them for the ventrue which ... yeah easy choice)

purging a cult for saying something that is absolutely true about set (he wouldn't like the way the clan is going) is 100% in character for the orthodox priesthood of the setites at the time which is part of the reason why they lose control over the clan and don't even notice it till it's too late, keep shooting the messenger often enough and nobody is going to talk to you after all. But they really didn't need to be a bloodline for this

that being said... i actually like them i played one before and i like how the clan weakness actually pushes you into being more of a sorcerer and less of a normal vampire and their animalism actually let's you have snakes around but it's not like there is a hole in the game that they needed to fill or that anyone would miss them

>>98331310
Rather than multiply, I'd set them a basic number and then add resources. Resources reflects disposable income, not total wealth, and it's already such a good merit I don't want to force everyone to be rich.

Though usually I go with a "yeah that sounds good to me". Like a resources 0 or 1 redneck should be able to start with their choice of a shotgun or hunting rifle, despite those two being pretty strong weapons. Because only the poorest of rednecks don't have an old Mossberg or grandpa's Winchester Model 70.

>>98331204
Some people really hate Conditions. Others might prefer the old exp system. There's a case to be made that some splats aren't as fun in their 2e counterpart.

Personally, I don't like adding athletics to defense (makes melee combat a slog of throwing 2-3 dice at each other unless you're hyper-optimized and your opponent didn't invest in defense to the same degree), but that's easy to house rule out. The counter-argument is that the worst rule in 1e, how weapons just add dice to your attack, can be easily changed with a single optional rule in both HtV1e and Armory. So, depending on your splat and your feelings about Conditions I can see the argument. I jokingly call what my group does "1.5e".

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I miss this lil nigga like you wouldn't believe!

>>98331438
>What if humans but shizo sorcery

>>98331403
Tangently related but i was chitchatting with a drunk guy about guns last night and he was telling me about various ways to get guns on the cheap. He was bragging about his shotgun he got for just 200 bucks.

Maybe streetwise can play a factor if you dont have a high resources.

>>98330897
>Conforming to kine beauty standards
No true Tzimisce

>>98331187
Personally I'd prefer coomers over the two retards who can go for multiple threads circlejerking about sorcerers, werewolves, and mages. They have basically the same discussion every thread, they're like LLMs stuck in a loop.

Coomers at least sometimes produce something so horrifying it could be used as an actual plot hook.

>>98331444
>What if Schizos + Sorcery + Monsters

What are the most cracked combat builds in CofD?

>>98331293
>How my own fetish plays into a game
I fear springing it up on my players because I'm one sick deviant, but I might consider an angle where a ghoul is being abused by a Lasombra as a stress relief dominated husband, and the players may have an opportunity to turn him against his dominator.

>>98331458
You fool. The overt monster may scare the kine away, but the seemingly ordinary girl who's dress hides a gaping maw that can bite limbs off? That will scar the kine for generations to come.

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Hail Fenrir!

>>98331480
>t. His cousins spew fringe political theory at him that he has to put up with because their kinfolk know how to hunt

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Which is the worst Hermetic house to join?
And which is the best choice?
inb4 everyone says Tytalus is the worst. It objectively kind of is, but at least if you survive you'll get power one way or another. Meanwhile Jerbiton are stuck running the equivalent of the Wizard DMV.

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>>98330687
>thread question
have you seen the schizo babble word vomit Jules Brucattio put in warlock or the mental break down Johnathon Charles had recently? I don't know how they even started WoS without killing each other yet

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I don't care for Mage, everything about it is a detriment to the setting. Every other gameline is sullied and made worse by Mage's very existence. Yes, Ascension and Awakening both.

>>98331554
This but Werewolf.

>>98331536
>but at least if you survive you'll get power one way or another.
no you don't there is no thing in mage that makes a Tytalus mage more powerful than any other mage of any other house and their political standing is also in the gutter to the point where they only didn't get demoted to ex miscellanea because they (ex miscellanea) didn't want them around. the entire house philosophy is just abuse victim turned abuser cope all the way down

mage in general is really missing in merits, rotes etc related to the houses so for most part it's really just preference because ruleswise a house Bonisagus mage can just be as good as a house flambeau mage or better (Bonisagus has prime as secondary sphere, Flambeau has none. Atleast in revised no idea about m20). It's now RAW but i guess you could convince your st to let your mage take the rotes and merits of a craft turned house if you join that house? beside that bit of beging mechanically houses are again super undercooked and the only thing to really keep in mind are the secondary spheres which not even all houses have one of

>>98331554
You're correct, which means there's nothing more to really add.

>>98331568
Apoc's annoying because it has some stuff I really like, but how it uses a lot of those elements, as well as the focal point itself (the werewolves) just aren't on and end up taking away far more than what it adds.

Forsaken is fine though.

>>98331467
id say its fine if you don't be a creep about it and give the players opportunity to back out or like you said end the degeneracy

>>98331576
If I ran a pure Werewolf game, I'd still want it to be mixed with different breeds. Even if the players were all wolves, the plot would be about race politics. Like, okay, nobody wants to be a dragon or a kitsune? Well you still have to put up with one.

>>98331577
Of course yeah, it's just that the appeal for 85% of fetishes you could put into a game is to see how deep the rabbit hole could go. It's not a humiliation/abuse kink if the guy isn't given a public beating in front of the coterie

>>98331444
Not really, it's schizos with Temu true faith.

>>98331554
as a mage enjoyer i have been saying it would work even better as just a stand alone game or version of ars magicka in modern times. Sorcerer should be the magickal wizard splat of WoD

>>98331568
kinda agree but could be mitigated if their paradigm and cosmology wasn't 100% proven true and in direct contradiction to the other splats proven true cosmologies.

>>98331554
In classic WoD, Numina are unironically better in most cases.

>>98331459
As apposed to what? Looping the exact same wait, but about vampire instead? Looping about chronicles?
Anon wod is dead. There is Only looping.

>>98331605
Maybe if some chucklefuck would stop teaching Temporis to every shovelhead that makes it past their first raid we could move on.

>>98331568
I like Werewolf though Yes I am a gooner/Monsterfucker.
>>98331576
>>98331586
Would be best leaving it up to the players if they want to engage in race politics, though I do think werewolf is probably best off if the party has to both engage in the absolutely wooffailure that is the Garou Nation as well as dealing with the aftershocks of the war of rage and everyone thinking the Garou are genocidal untrustworthy chuds who'll blow up at the earliest inconvenience.

>>98331554
>>98331568
Outside of Vampire I usually find the secondary or tertiary splats to be more appealing than Werewolf or Mage, for both oWoD & CofD.

>>98331605
>>98331610
Perhaps we'll break out of the schizo loop when either 5.5 formally drops or the new Deathwish / Apoc game / Hollywood text game drop and there's new discussion over a dev's interpretation of the setting

>>98331612
>and everyone thinking the Garou are genocidal untrustworthy chuds who'll blow up at the earliest inconvenience.
...which they are. That Rage rating is kind of a bitch like that and werewolves base 1/3rd of their rank system on violence.
Their system quite literally rewards and reinforces that kind of thing.

>>98331618
I think Forsaken is probably better than Requiem, but at least for WoD it does feel like both Apoc and Ascension are living in Masquerade's shadow. It's hard not to look at a core part of the setting and think up that it's like that because Masquerade did it in some other way, whereas the other splats in WoD are pretty divorced from that feeling. I E random wizard spawns versus demon possession

>>98331612
That's fair; I'd be open to tribe-specific plotlines if everyone wanted to make their characters related to each other. Silent striders and their eternal war with the Setites. Black furies and their eternal war with males. Fianna and their eternal war with sobriety.

>>98331554
>>98331568
This but Vampire. I'm tired of the weird and unique cosmology of the World of Darkness being contorted in order to pander to Noddism, which is mostly just unoriginal Bible slop.

>>98331438
>beauty standards
sounds like ugly people cope to me

>>98331624
They are but they're also capable of restraint to a point. You can ask your ST for opportunities to decrease or gain rage and you aren't edging a frenzy for anything less than genuinely insulting behavior, so the gameplay and the lore is a bit disconnected in that regard. Somewhat funny in that way

>>98331095
Glad to hear it, Anon. Hope the Pyramid doesn't fuck you all in the ass too hard.

>>98331634
What would those look like? Is the last one just helping your packmate finally kick the bucket in his drunken hijinks? That could be a great time though, like the one RDR2 mission where you get into the most insane bar brawl.

Is that VtM to VtR conversion actually good? It may be an ideal way to wean my group off of VtM & try out CofD more.

>>98331618
I often toy with the idea of running an Immortals game.

>>98331633
In fairness, Requiem is also living in Masquerade's shadow. It was hugely influential on the modern vampire mythos; both generations and fleshwarping are fairly typical for them now.

>>98331661
I'm not entirely sure on that, some vampire media does have fleshwarping in it but it's relatively rare still, even if the whole secret society of vampire things has become very prevalent between Masquerade, Underworld, and Twilight.

>>98331656
i used it for a vtm game and are currently using it for a vtm/vtr mixed game and i personally love it

it even fixes some otherwise kinda lame powers and doesn't just mindlessly port stuff but anon really took the time to convert them like for example lasombra shadow tentacles don't just have the dice engine changed no they also scale in number with blood potency (+1) if you are using blood potency

>>98331638
I agree wholeheartedly. I even like vampire, especially when it gets more weird and gonzo with its own setting. But it has nothing to do with or add to the rest of the setting as a whole, at least cosmologically. Vampire societies can be fun to interact with, but Caine/Lilith and all that are so poorly written and boring.

>>98331653
>silent striders
War against vampires in the vain hopes of tracking down and killing a god to reclaim the holy land.

>fianna
Actually a straight-play war on Pentex with grassroots community building movements for a B-plot.

>black furies
Fetish plotline dressed up as a joke where you put chemicals in the water to turn the friggin frogs gay and forcefem dudes, turning manly men into soft lesbians.

>>98331638
>>98331773
It's really weird how Demon adds more to the setting than VTM does.

Demon's entire premise is that WoD reality was originally a series of layered realities operating in parallel that all collapsed in each other like a wedding cake smashing into the floor. It's even a major plot point that the angels weren't fully aware of All the different lsyers even before the fall and war of wrath.

>>98331806
Damn these are pretty great, should make one for each tribe.

>>98331818
>>98331773
>>98331638
You retards are aware that Vampire IS the World of Darkness, right? As in, 99% of people who ever played a WoD game exclusively played Vampire. Vampire can't spoil the World of Darkness if people only play the World of Darkness for Vampire, it's everything else that is needless baggage fucking the setting up.

>>98331806
>Fetish plotline dressed up as a joke where you put chemicals in the water to turn the friggin frogs gay and forcefem dudes, turning manly men into soft lesbians.
But that's Wyrmish. Black Furies are Gaian fanatics. Putting chemicals in the water to gay up the frogs and feminization of men is something Pentex would do. The Black Furies would be fighting against that, because its a corruption of the natural order.

It is funny how both sides of the argument agree that Vampire and the rest of oWoD is a mismatch. Everything else is just bitching based on which side of that mismatch you prefer.

Personally, I don't see the point in blaming Vampire for it. It was the first one made. You can't blame how it was written for not anticipating the schizo spirit focused anti-modernity stuff that would come to dominate later lines.

Either way if both sides agree that they don't fit, why not just agree to an amicable divorce?

>>98331840
I think the name World of Darkness doesn't really apply to vampires nearly as hard as Wraith. Vampire isn't in the modern day quite so dark since shadowy cabals controlling society is hardly conspiracy theory, while Wraith embraced the reality of modern wage slavery.

>>98331855
Put Testosterone in the water then to turn the men into rapist muscle monsters they can femdom and beat into servitude.
>>98331857
I disagree with this on principle, but in reality part of the reason the vampire is so divorced from the greater wod more and mythology is because Vampires are the least spiritual creature in all of WoD. It actually makes a lot of sense for them to engage in noddism and generally just be different since a vampire's soul was forfeit, unlike every other splat, at the moment of creation.

>>98331858
Who the fuck ever played Wraith? It performed so poorly that it got its ToJ half a decade before the other splats.

>>98331867
>Put Testosterone in the water then to turn the men into rapist muscle monsters they can femdom and beat into servitude.
Deliberately polluting the waters to mutate and abuse humans is also Wyrmish. And Pentex already does this too, they create muscle-rage fomori all the time.

>>98331871
Just because Wraith is hard to play and uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't kino.

>>98331857
amicable? in this community?

>>98331829
Honestly, the Fianna one only stuck with me because Pentex canonically produces low quality, tainted drugs and alcohol and pushes out the competition with lobbying and litigation, so I felt like there was a connection there that went deeper than an off-the-cuff racist joke, particularly given the dangers of even over-the-counter drugs in real life (I've had friends who went through some very serious struggles with kratom, which nobody even realized could hurt you). I also know some people who recovered from growing up around racial extremists, so I could pull from their experiences to do a plotline for the Get, but they're not supposed to be actual neo-nazis, just the neo-pagan LARPers that would eventually be swallowed by them. Glass Walkers might be fun, though, with a high-budget tech focus and very business-like approach that could be used as an ironic mirror of the very evils they seek to destroy.

>>98331855
Obviously actually poisoning the frogs wouldn't happen. It was just a joke reference to a famous bit, since the campaign would start very jokey and gradually turn up the heat, like frogs in a pot, until they were lost in my magical realm.

>>98331875
I guess they just spread traditional retvrn propaganda encouraging tradwives and tradhusbands then. Or sell wyld-cultivated yogurt I guess.

>>98331877
Eh, worth a try. I tire of these silly intra-oWoD shit flinging competitions and the lorefag circlejerks that tend to follow. I don't know how these guys can rattle off the same lines over and over again and not get bored of it.

>reading requiem (the comic)
>get to chapter 12
>3 pages are unreadably compressed
Fuck

>>98331957
womp womp

>>98331857
>why not just agree to an amicable divorce?
What's your suggestion? Separate generals for Vampire and the World of Darkness sans Vampire, with each being banned from being mentioned in the other?

>>98331876
had a friend tease me about running a wraith game that never materialized and he said it was the most depressing WoD splat since you're already dead

is it really that emo? what makes it more uncomfortable or sad than playing a vampires whos family is long dead and they often have to assault people theyd rather leave alone.

>>98331960
The life of a pirate is a hard one occasionally.

>>98331970
No, just to stop making such a big deal about it and fighting like it actually matters, especially when both are about as dead as disco.

Most people I talk to IRL very quickly reach the conclusion of
>combined oWoD is a mess and doesn't work
>so I just run the parts I like and the stuff I don't doesn't exist

This stuff is only a problem if some gen X mega grog tries to join your table and throws a hissy if you won't acknowledge proper "canon".

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Drawfag back with a nagaraja update!
>>98331857
>amicable divorce
I hope not, I like all the splats, and I have my own little way of making them all fit together.
Except for Demon.

What makes WoD so fun for me is all the variety.

>>98331987
Well there's a couple of reasons why it's just hard to play
>Wraith RAW have you play PvP with your roleplay as each of your players controls another one's shadow and the point of the shadow isn't to be buddy buddy with the Wraith but to actively try to take over and make them worse
>The abilities are a weird mix of disciplines which apply either to the dead or the living (but usually not both) and are big XP hogs, and you WILL be hunted down for trying to fuck with or even learning how to fuck with the living
>Ghost slavery is half of the game
>Depressed ghost shenanigans about how you're a terrible person and deserve to be tortured and haunted is another
>Have to micromanage your fetters and attachments to life while also trying to either no longer be a wraith or not get ghost-murdered by monsters or other ghosts
>The government is schizophrenic and will both help and hinder you st the same time depending on bureaucracy, favors, good boy points, and just cause

It's a very imaginative setting, but it does about every single thing it could do short of no fun allowed to make fun more of a destination than a byproduct of the journey. And it's based for being like that, but understandably not everyone wants to play a guy who beat his wife or ran over a family of 6 and killed himself or was a murderous outlaw who was hanged. Some people just want to play good people, but there are no good wraiths.

>>98332015
Cool naga, nigga. I like that his hairline is almost as bad as his teeth.

As someone who really doesn't like most splats, I do appreciate your art, even of the lines I don't like. OC makers, be they homebrew rules guys or drawfags, are the lifeblood of a general.

>>98332015
Damn what that mouth do? I love the bone racks in the background and what I assume is either spare rations or the guy's shadow in behind the skull.

>>98332012
I don't think there are any major, irreconcilable issues. There are some points of contention, but those are just conflicting viewpoints. I do admit that there is enough room for interpretation that everyone who runs the setting is liable to make different assumptions about how it works, though.

>>98332015
>Except for Demon.
Demon is full of shit, but it's also narrated by Satan, so you know it's full of shit going in.

>>98332012
Every newbie goes through a phase where they think a unified World of Darkness game has got to be the coolest thing ever, and power level arguments and theoretical cross-over conversations are common in public forums like this. So, there's always going to be people comparing Vampire to the rest of the World of Darkness, and it's a subject that's naturally going to come up whenever the Week of Nightmares is mentioned.

All we can do is agree to refrain from bitching and moaning about things we don't like and people talking about things we don't like which I find Vampire fans are usually far more guilty of, but that's neither here nor there but I think even that is asking too much of this general.

>>98332041
>spare rations
I thought the nagaraja tried to keep victims alive and slowly strip them of their flesh because they dont gain nourishment if the corpse isnt fresh.

>>98332032
>>Ghost slavery is half of the game
IIRC, the only matter in the afterlife is other ghosts, so anything you want to build requires you to convert those other ghosts into materials. The economy is the slave trade, and the bricks in your house are made of people.

>>98332037
Thanks! I really try to go all out with how dead and shriveled and corpselike vampires are, with my art. Especially since the Kindred I paint are of the older and lower humanity variety, generally.
One thing I think some people forget is that Cainites are undead MONSTERS.
The way I rationalise that most mortals don't realize these horrible walking corpses are all around, is that the Cities are nexii of Wyrm/Weaver spiritual warfare, and therefore the humans there are more "worn down" and are spiritually dulled, and simply "overlook" the real appearance of vampires, at least when in passing. And of course, vampires (mostly) don't look AS horrifying when they aren't actively hunting people.
Of course, I'm sure this breaks down on a super granular scrutiny, but it works well enough for me to justify the monstrousness of the vampires I draw.

>>98332063
It's just hard to make out from the rough draft what it represents, but spare rations could still be a living person.

>>98331987
>is it really that emo?
It's an entire game dedicated to resolving your failures and trauma's from life so you can finally pass on through transcendance.
That complicated even further because your shadow, the parts of yourself that you're so ashamed of that you burried the in your subconscious so that you never have to actually face them, is now sentient and so pissed at what you became that want to force you into a double-suicide with it. It's plan to do so is trsumatizing you so hard you leap into oblivion, the pit of absolute destruction that causes souls to stop existing entirely(except it isn't it's the river lethe that removes all your memories, destiny, powers, and former ties to the living so you can be reborn with a clean slate.)

Multiple this to everyone who has ever died and now add the fact the wraith afterlife is ruled by roman empire aristocrat-corpos who made transcendance Illegal so they could have an infinite empire of undead waggies forever.

>>98332064
This is true, although you don't *have* to deal with the ghost slave trade economy if you focus only on the woe is me fetter and better management sim of redeeming your would be ghost slave trader, it's a big part of the setting and understandably less people vibe with slavery when it's literal rather than kinky half-willing bdsm.

>>98332060
if it's neither here nor there, don't bring it up. this is the kind of tribal, points-scoring behavior that undermines neutrality.

>>98332075
Wraith Cyberpunk when, glory to Ghost Arasaka!

>>98332041
The bones in the bg are really more symbolic than literal, since Nagaraja are all death/necromacy indulgent. And the shadow is actually a Wraith!
>>98332048
>Demon is full of shit
True. I just don't like it because it screws up the "underworld" stuff that Wraith and Werewolf and Vampire have going on, and also it totally screws up Kupala, who I really like as he appears in VtM.

>>98331840
>Responds to a watsonian discussion with a doylist argument.
Anon, You rode the short bus to school didn't you?

>>98332064
Do drone wraiths really count as "people" though? They're more like psychic echoes than intelligent beings.

>>98332091
>The Shadow is a Wraith
That's some cool stuff, can't wait to see it in color.

>>98332094
Drone wraiths are no different than NPCs just taken to the extreme, free Wraiths are like your average autist dialed up to an 11. So it depends if you think NPCs are human in the same way

But really, they're still human as in a human soul, just drowned in so much regret that they can't be helped anymore. Wraiths in WoD aren't like the psychic echo of a person the same way ancestor spirits are or ghosts in cofd are, they're still human souls otherwise they wouldn't be capable of growth and therefore redemption.

>>98331875
Ok, but what's their stance on fluoride?

>>98332083
Nothing wrong with poking a little fun at the guy earlier in the thread throwing a strop because people dare to talk about Mage, Sorcerer and Werewolf, or this whole discussion being started by someone getting on a soapbox about their distaste of Mage. I'm not going to try and be the better man on 4chan of all places, I can't think of anything less rewarding than that.

>>98332072
My assumption for the background was either decoration, trophies, or ritual components.

>>98332066
You definitely have a talent for the monstrous and grotesque.

>>98332115
I thought Drone-Wraiths weren't capable of growth though? They're stuck mindlessly repeating behaviors until Oblivion consumes them. At least, that's what I remembered. I'm not a lore expert really.

>>98332092
He's getting desperate ever since his werewolf bait got stale.

>>98332120
Thank you very much! In a non-symbolic way, the bones are probably decoration. Black bones lining the walls of a Nagaraja's creepy lair.
>>98332116
Definitely Weavish scheming.

>>98332121
Well, they're not capable of growth because they let despair and regret consume them to the point that they just re-live they're guilt. That's the default state of the Wraith unless a reaper (or a psychopomp but Charon going out for cigarettes every 5 seconds is a different discussion) opens their eyes to their reality rather than their internal perception of their sins. Drones are just unlucky and can no longer be pulled out since they wallowed in their filth too long to be free. I guess you can make the argument that it's sort of reality selecting against them for reincarnation or that when they get consumed by guilt and become a drone they're actual soul passes on, but this is more semantics at this point. If the only thing left for them is oblivion, which serves somewhat a purpose in recycling ghost matter, then they probably have a soul still. This is discussion more in the nature of theology and philosophy than logic tbqh though, could be interesting to put in a game assuming anyone ever gets to play Wraith.

>>98332075
so is transcendence like mages ascension where its nebulous and unexplained and the bad guy faction argues its decension or oblivion is the same thing.

>>98332032
>Some people just want to play good people, but there are no good wraiths.

so do most normal people automatically transcend or get reincarnated and its just people with a guilty conscience that get stuck as wraiths

>>98332066
Every artist has their own style, you don't need to justify it. Much as bad erotica and its mainstream acceptance has cheapened or discredited the idea of easily human-passing, attractive vampires, I do actually like them. The hidden threat angle is a great one that gets under-used for them. One thing I like about WoD's vampires is that they can run the full spectrum of incredibly beautiful to hideous deformed monster, with a wide range between.

You certainly do the monstrous thing well. I really like the ape-like face that sometimes shows up on your vamps, including Caine.

>>98332156
A huge chunk of dead people never become wraiths, whether they immediately "fall to Oblivion" and get erased, transcend (and whether transcendence is even real or just another funny version of oblivion), or just get "recycled" is unknown

>>98332158
Thank you! I'm glad you appreciate my aesthetic choices!
I suppose I am very much in the visual school of "evil = ugly", so thats how I choose to show these vampires have run their Humanity quite low, and are on Paths as a result.
I like a lot of early VtM art for that reason, because the vampires all look quite sinister and horrible, with black eyes and predatory faces and wicked claws and such.

>>98332156
To become a Wraith at the minimum you need enough regret, self-loathing, and raw hatred of whatever killed you to form a shadow and be barred from a normal afterlife/reincarnation. It's not just about a grisly end, it's also about doing a fair amount of bad shit or disservices to your community or humanity. Most normal people either reincarnate or go to whatever afterlife they believe in unless it's some deeply spiritual stuff like the Garou. I guess the exception to this is that Charnel Houses implies that if you just get karmically abused like the Jews (although, fair question as to how much the Jews deserve it if they're going to Wraith-town) in the Holocaust you just become a Wraith off of raw hate or just cause. It's kinda like your soul gets anchored down by whatever fucked up shit was in it at the time of death. So yeah, most normal people, even murder victims, usually aren't going to become Wraiths.

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>>98332158
The most human-looking vampire I've probably drawn is this Salubri, partly because I think the Salubri are as close to "good" as one gets among the Cainites. At least, that's just my personal feeling.

>>98332202
>Most normal looking vampire
>Fucked up Orc teeth, A10 giga Aryan eyes, white hair with ashy skin
Apt. It's good art though, I like it.

>>98332060
I do like trying to connect a unified cosmogony but I don't think splats interact well (though there is a DTF(?) explanation that allows it with all the splats being similar but distinct in different gamelines so a lupine is not the murderbeast supersoldier the Garou is and all the gamelines are parallel universes that collapsed and sometimes intersect)

>>98332156
>so do most normal people automatically transcend or get reincarnated
Yeah, but that's more of a function of willpower than good vs evil.
You need 5 dots of willpower and a seriously good reason to want to stick around after death, which works out to only 10% of people becoming wraiths.
Now remember that there have been 110 billion people that have died in the 300,000 years humans have been around, and you'll see stygia is a bit crowded.

>>98332234
>5 willpower
Mages would make great wraiths if they didn't reincarnate.

>>98332115
Doesn't oWoD also have the "ghosts" we think of IRL that haunt houses, distinct from say an actual wraith that's somehow haunting a place, in that they're like the burn-in on a plasma screen, but the actual human soul has passed (although confusingly enough isn't there something about Wraiths potentially somehow being the "spirit" and intelligence divorced from the soul (divine spark) that always passes somewhere else)

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>>98332215
The most fucked up vampires I've drawn are probably these Nosferatu here.
>Fucked up Orc teeth
Gotta have it if you're a badass warrior Salubri!
>A10 giga Aryan eyes
Those actually are Saulot's own eyes!

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Not sure if I posted this other Nosferatu before either.

>>98332202
Dude looks like a space marine. He should be dueling Abaddon the Despoiler, not some Tremere and his gargoyle.

>>98332201
Confusingly isn't the whole fabric of the "world" rather fractal where the "low umbra" also has "afterlives" that are copies of the "real" ones

>>98332244
Reminder that no matter how ugly you are you will NEVER be a true nossie with App 0
You're not even special, just the regular kind of repulsive.

>>98332243
The psychic echos of people exist though I think that's because of consensus rather than ghost stuff. Either way, yeah it is weird like that. WoD isn't exactly the most consistent and coherent setting. Imo
>If it isn't a splat mechanic, it's a consensus problem
>If it isn't a consensus problem or a splat mechanic, it's probably God fucking with Caine again

>>98332240
Anon, wraiths that fall to oblivion are auto-reoncarnated. This was revealed in Ends of Empire. Mages likely default to becoming wraiths, and then quickly get curbstomped since they can't use True Magick anymore

>>98332240
Is it possible the "human" part becomes a wraith (or are mages not really applicable to the semi-two souls thing that all the other splats seem to have going on)

I feel it could be either way, as Mage has a whole "human soul is actually the divine thing knowledge belief blah blah blah" but Mages also have an avatar, then again the theory is every human could "awaken"

>>98332253
Gotta be a hardcore badass to tangle with powerful Tremere, Tzimisce fleshbeasts, AND Wyrmspawn fomori and Weaver Drones all the time!

>>98332234
>Stygia is a bit crowded
Indeed, which is why we turn the crowds into the brickwork. It's very interesting what you can do with Wraith's settings but the lack of cultures before the Romans sort of imply the more base and spiritual nature of humanity back then kept them from becoming Wraiths overall. I imagine it's not that different from how Garou skip becoming Wraiths because they believe in either becoming based ancestor spirits through great deeds or reincarnating.
>>98332240
Your average 3 willpower gooner ecstatic begs to differ.

>>98332261
True! I like the idea that Nosferatu look like someone fucked with their faces in kidpix, using the warp tools, instead of being "realistically" deformed. Totally absurd horrors that border on the darkest possible comedy, and are absolutely unable to appear in public, without the most crazy of coverings or lots of Obfuscate.
Since that's how they're described, this was always my mental image.

>>98332281
>how Garou skip becoming Wraiths
My theory is that Gaia "saves" Garou that are powerful enough warriors or are spiritually rarified to some degree, to "revive" them for the final battle of the Apocalypse. In other words, the White Howlers are coming back for one last clash with the Black Spirals, baby!

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>>98331095
Sounds fun, an all-Tremere chronicle sounds like the perfect opportunity to go balls deep into Chantry Administration and Pyramid Power Struggles that would otherwise be a sidenote on a normal game.
>Everyone's primary is Path of Blood, of course
I see. IIRC it was Pyramid policy to teach that first to most new embraces with outliers being very rare, right? You don't get to go fully into other paths until you get that one to 5 dots.
>and I might've gotten a job opportunity helping them exterminating Szlachta left behind in the sewers.
My character would relish a chance to turn you all into nutrients for the Hive
>>98331623
Yeah, gencon's at the end of the month and then we'll see if they're finally going to put 5th out of its misery like the gas leak edition it is, or sink further with Mage5 and a couple rulefixes.
>>98331610
Kel, solid Trujah idea. Clan revivalist trying to pull a Giovanni/Tremere.
>>98331187
But anon, my pornbrained coomer bullshit IS my game. How else am I supposed to run a Metamorphosist Insect Queen's Porn Movie Studio in SchreckNet?

I still want to repl to your post if you're still here Bahari-anon, Aeria sounds like a barrel of laughs.

>>98332234
>10% of people becoming wraiths.
>Now remember that there have been 110 billion people
Still pitiful compared to some of whitewolf's other fuck-ups.
For example, a conservative estimate of ananasi population number should put them at around 1,000 to 10,000 Werespooders per Human on planet earth. No wonder the weaver is winning so hard...

Also, technocrats are drowning in lethal amount of goth-girl pussy. Void engineers would be spending more time and energy trying to prevent rogue bands of spidergirls kidnapping nerds for their breeding pits than the entirety of the traditions, nephandi, and threat null combined.

>>98332291
Yeah I was going to say something about that gorilla ass mother fucker in the corner and how his ass needs to get back to the zoo before he gets ghouled, but I think these are the first convincing "walking masquerade breach" Nossie designs I've seen. Some of them have been downright cute! Not that there's anything wrong with that, I prefer my vamps pretty, but these are incredible designs.

>>98332301
The Weaver would be winning harder if Ananasa hadn't treacherously killed all the Insect Races!

>>98332244
Lmfao, that one guy in the middle looks like Marcelline's dad from Adventure Time. Cool art man.
>>98332254
There are a somewhat coherent image of the WoD umbra that gets posted showing the different "real" afterlives, but you have to filter this shit through the specific splat you're playing. The only guys who should know everything are Demons and even then they're too batshit crazy and bitter over God to present any coherent information. Also Demon was never finished properly so no overarching WoD cosmology exists. You have to pick and choose a bit in these cases though I'd like to think duplicate afterlives are just kind of a silly idea unless they're created by powerful wizards or wraiths.
>>98332267
Mages don't actually become Wraiths, they auto-reincarnate because the Avatar has a massive REEEEEE at the thought of belonging to anything but a Mage. So you could be the most bitter, jaded fuck, but if you have an Avatar you WILL be coming back. I'd honestly even claim that Hermetics who became Tremere and died reincarnated as a Mage somewhere instead of going to Wraith-town.

>>98332271
The Avatar is the divine spark of creation itself in Mage isn't it? Basically the entirety of human potential and that soul's share of God or something of that nature. It's different from the more typical human intelligence and body but the Avatar is like the soul's super-ego.

>>98332298
Maybe yeah, it's a pretty reasonable theory. I'm thinking it's just autistic self-belief in Gaia and reincarnation though (since Gaia is implied a bajillion times to be dead.)

>>98332301
>Void engineers would be spending more time and energy trying to prevent rogue bands of spidergirls kidnapping nerds for their breeding pits than the entirety of the traditions, nephandi, and threat null combined.
I now need to commision are of Vengie space marines funding off Ananasi goth girls like they're an endless tyranid swarm.

>>98332301
>>98332305
I don't believe the Ananasi can trust each other enough to make a coordinated effort to kidnap nerds into their breeding pits. I'm also fairly certain that needing spider kinfolk and having a swarm form keeps the population pretty low though I realize I myself am being a pedantic nerd

>>98332326
Nerds? Breeding pits? What are you talking about?
>>98332303
I feel that if theres one thing the "ugly vampire" and "pretty vampire" crowds can agree on, it's that Nosferatu must always be ugly as sin.

>>98332116
Come on, that's the oldest technocratic scheme. Obvious weaver taint.

>>98331536
>worst
Tytalus

>best
Ars Magica time: Criamon or Merinita
Modern time: Fortunae or Shaea (for that egyptian-themed pussy)

>>98332243
There's the Mummy lore about the soul actually being several parts that can operate just fine without eachother,
Like after you die one part remains to guard the body and another goes to heaven.

>>98332326
>I'm also fairly certain that needing spider kinfolk and having a swarm form keeps the population pretty low
Those are actually the main reasons why their population would be enormous.
There are QUADRILLIONS of spiders and having a swarm form to mate in to make lupus-equivalents AND being a species that lays eggs instead of live-birthing means each ananasi is capable of producing Millions of ananasi kinfolk over their lifetime. Finally, Ananasi, like bastet, are have the innate ability to make their own personal spirit realm. Meaning they have infinite space for expanding their true breed and kinfolk population.
Even with a 1% kinfolk/kinfolk & 10% kinfolk/Ananasi breeding true, 1,000 to 10,000 ananasi per human is the Conservative estimate. In prwctice it'd be much, Much more. Ananasi would be desperate for humans to maintain breed human kinfolk from because their spider kin would explode in population so quickly and easily.

I'm looking for a passage I saw in some book where it is an elder or a methuselah talking about how despite being truly ancient, Ur Shulgi makes even him look young.

Anyone have the passage or know what book it is from?

>>98331536
Tremere>Diedne

>>98332377
Hear me out: all spiders are Ananasi and they're just really autistic about following orders. That way if a spider harasses you permanently it's because you deserve it

>>98331638
Biblical Occulism is the crux of most of these myths that the World of Darkness revolves around.

>>98332300
Im still here metamorphosis-anon. Im not sure which post you were referring too, irl has been busy.

>>98332377
>Ananasi would be desperate for humans to maintain breed human kinfolk from because their spider kin would explode in population so quickly and easily
So the math says realistic Ananasi would be spirit Tyranids, but desperate for cock instead of Biomass?...


Anons! I will Hold the Line! Run while you still can and Save Yourselves!

>>98332391
Speaking of the Tremere, I wonder if the red glasses were his idea. Or if the Hermetics (Tremere) simply always wore red like that.
>>98332377
Nice digits, anyway I assume that because of the swarm form, spider Ananasi basically only produce 1 ananasi if they're lucky and that ananasi is the entire swarm of born spiders. Regardless, I think we're over-thinking it and thematically the secretive manipulator faction of Fera probably should have big enough numbers to manipulate others but not so much that they should be able to pump out thousands of super soldiers a year and take over the world that way. Especially considering they're not retarded chuds who see the world in binary.

>>98332306
>Tremere
Wouldn't that be a strange case (same as any Mage to Vampire) that the "human" soul is reanimating its own human corpse essentially, so they couldn't reincarnate (that is if it's not actually just "the beast" skinriding the residual "mind") and the avatar immediately fucks off (gilgul ?)

>>98332431
You don't have enough cock for all the spider-women anon, fear not though brother! I shall hold the line with you.

>>98331857
VtM, MtR, DtF, WtO all work within each other's lore.

MtA, WtA, CtD all clash to a certain extent with the Biblical aspects of the former. But also dont mesh well enough with each other either. It would be easier to change these ones to better fit the Biblical aspects, than to figure out how to match everything else together. And you dont need to get rid of the Dynamic/Static/Entropic trinity either.

>>98332451
I think it's easier to make VtM and WtA match up than any other of the splats. WtA even has a (relatively unexplored) explanation for Caine's origins that isn't the Jewish origin story from the bible.

>>98332438
>Nice digits, anyway I assume that because of the swarm form, spider Ananasi basically only produce 1 ananasi if they're lucky and that ananasi is the entire swarm of born spiders
Read the breed book. Crawler-born ananasi are born as individual spiders and eat biomass to grow to human size, not swarms.
While it's true that only one ananasi can be born from an ananasi kinfolk pair, even in a clutch of hundreds of eggs, that still means that ananasi has 99 siblings from that one clutch, other the thousanf egg clutches the ananasi had that year.
>Regardless, I think we're over-thinking it and thematically the secretive manipulator faction of Fera probably should have big enough numbers to manipulate others but not so much that they should be able to pump out thousands of super soldiers a year and take over the world that way.
Anon, here's a question: Which option is funnier and more fun to play?
Hell this is World of Darkness, a secret swarm of spider-beast shifters in the deep umbra that dwarfs the entire population of earth wouldn't even be the first time that kind of thing happened(*cough* Void Engineer Dyson Sphere *cough*)

>>98332311
Yeah that's what I was trying to get at, just wondering is it really "separate" from the "base human soul" (there seems to be something about it always trying to come back to its "base" human but I can't remember where I read it) and would that in theory allow the "human" to become a wraith

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>>98332202
Zamn, drawfag can even make the Salubri not look like passive bitchbois and instead the baddies they are described as in-lore whose reaction to seeing the Eldest is to square up. Love the Nosferatu too - grotesque and instantly Masquerade-breaching just like they should be
>>98332032
>not everyone wants to play a guy who beat his wife or ran over a family of 6 and killed himself or was a murderous outlaw who was hanged
See that part sounds fun, it's just the large part of needing to deal with Wraith society that keeps me personally from trying to learn more about the game. I want to make shit float around, scare mediums and suburban moms, drip blood in the mirror, possess an autistic child to get him to complete a ritual for me to come back, deal with holy men or meddling teenagers and their dog. I want haunted house management simulator and I'm sad that neither Wraith nor Geist seem to be going for that. I don't care about the ghost government, the ghost gangs, the ghost war, the ghost economy, or the ghost DMV beyond them as background setpieces.

>>98332460
>Anon, here's a question: Which option is funnier and more fun to play?
This question is what separates the autistic retard STs from the autistic Chad STs. The Whitewolf writers are unironically retarded sometimes and have a frequent habit of forgetting their own fucking lore.

>>98332460
I don't really like or get into the Ananasi too much so I'm afraid I can't really answer the question, but infinity spider people does sound more funny.

>>98332464
You can be mad spooky in Geist; the game expects you to Give A Shit, but it doesn't force you to. You do have a meatsack you inherited from some poor dead guy though, so you can't really be intangible all the time. Unless you do the Stillness thing, maybe?

>>98332464
You can absolutely do haunted house management in Wraith, may even get rewarded for it, assuming you can avoid the Wraith cops from putting you into Wraith jail (made up off other Wraiths) because you broke the Wraith rules (written on Wraith-skin paper using Wraith-ink) and the Wraith government who's leader is a literal spook decided that was a no-no long before your time. The main problem with haunted house management in Wraith is that eventually the cops will come around especially if you're unsubtle. In fact, managing a real haunted house seems more the work of Changelings to get glamour than Wraiths but even then that's more a means to an end. WoD kind of isn't an asset management type of RPG for the most part and even if you'd try there just isn't much longevity in it.

>>98332475
Which answer is the autistic retard ST and the autistic Chad ST?

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>>98330687
Alright I think that I got a cool concept for a Tzimisce that isn’t “alien monster wannabe” or “plastic surgeon”.

What if I take a page from Berserk?
Basically a little girl that turned herself into a fairy, and turns people into fantastical creatures, as a way to cope from being an undead. Fully living the changeling’s delusions that she is just a prodigal that lost her way? She would ghoul some servants or send some hunters as “valiant knights” on a quest to slay a monster. She’d be retreated so far into her childhood fairytales that the only way to interact with her is to follow the script. Honestly it would give me a reason to pick the anachronistic flaw.

>>98332457
VtM, & WtO are exactly the same, just exploring different things with different names. MtR goes out of its way to be the "buddy" splat kind of like what CofD tried to do with Beast, so its very inoffensive lore wise but still facors the Biblical & the VtM/WtO lore as its closest to those splats. DtF is the only one that contradicts anything even a little bit but it still marries well with VtM/WtO. It came out after a lot of the other books so it tries to make concessions for every splat though.

WtA could very easily fit with a little work, mostly it just needs to give us a modicum of concessions to fit God & Demon lore into how the Triat work. The Triat really should be a function of God or something, I mean, its already a trinity, just swap out the regular Father/Son/Holy Spirit with the resonant Wyld/Wyvr/Wyrm. Im fine with the Bloody Man lore too, it just needs some stuff added so that it can make sense from both sides.

Changeling can fit too, work it in from the Demon side if you ask me. Like Changelings & the Dreaming could be parts of the foggy bits of reality that were undeveloped into proper Creation or something. Or maybe even a sub-Creation born from the divinity in man manifesting our own Creation within the Dreaming/collective unconscious. Idk.

Mage is the big offender. Theres ways to make it fit, but every Mage writer seems like a fedora tipping atheist with a God complex.

>>98331894
It's ok anon, I too think it's hot to forcefem men.

>>98331638
>I'm tired of the weird and unique cosmology of the World of Darkness being contorted in order to pander to Noddism, which is mostly just unoriginal Bible slop.
The Bible is unoriginal, stale and just poorly written in general, but we're not ready to have that conversation.

>>98332538
>The Triat really should be a function of God or something
Just make him the embodied spirit of Wormwood. Boom, celestine, no problems. If you need him to be the absolute strongest guy on the block, no you don't.

>>98332547
The Bible's only really "stale" because everyone has been aping it for a millennium at this point

>>98332557
>Boom, celestine, no problems.
The problems come from there being multiple thing higher than celestines, like the triat and oblivion.
God being a celestine wouldn't make sense with the lore that puts oblivion and god as equals.

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>>98332201
>(although, fair question as to how much the Jews deserve it if they're going to Wraith-town)
Good question.

>>98332580
He only really needs to be strong enough to have cursed Caine and made his own spirits. I don't know a lot about Wraith, so why Oblivion is super strong or why it's so important that Jehovah can box it and not somebody else, you'll have to cite me a page.

>>98332523
Could work as an antagonist, but might be annoying and obstructive as a PC. Depends on your group.

>>98332538
>DtF is the only one that contradicts anything even a little bit but it still marries well with VtM/WtO.
It also leaves a lot of openings for reasons why other splats existed "before" them.

>>98331818
>Demon's entire premise is that WoD reality was originally a series of layered realities operating in parallel that all collapsed in each other like a wedding cake smashing into the floor. It's even a major plot point that the angels weren't fully aware of All the different lsyers even before the fall and war of wrath.

Demon's setting essentially says WoD wasn't originally one reality. It was multiple independant realities that got put in a blender at some point and the fallen were trapped in hell when that happened, so they don't unstand how or why it did.

>>98332559
Laughing at you for believing that anyone has read that book. Western tradition is birthed in classical myth and poetry.

>>98332596
>I don't know a lot about Wraith, so why Oblivion is super strong or why it's so important that Jehovah can box it and not somebody else
It's because oblivion sometimes kicks the wyrms in the nuts and steals it's lunch money. Read the silent striders clanbook. They have an emergency back-up plan of summoning oblivious to EAT the wyrm and take it's place if things really go tits up.

Why are anons unironically falling for the bible-bashing bait?

>>98332557
No God can be on the top of the stack & he made the Triat to run things while we went to the store for smokes. The Triat can be a sort of Demiurge, that god made & somehow Caine fucked it up with the concept of Murder

>>98332638
God is dead. WoD takes a kabbalistic view of things. That's why so many of the bad guys believe the best way to fix the world is to kill everything.

>>98332438
>Speaking of the Tremere, I wonder if the red glasses were his idea.
I asked Chantry-GPT:
No, the red glasses (or «slut glasses») were created in 1816 by Z Lehmkuhl— a Norwegian Tremere.

>>98332638
You could do that. You can also make him Wormwood. That's going to remain what I do. You can do something different if you want to.

>>98332645
Dead or Deadbeat it doesnt really matter in the end as long as Heaven is empty. I prefer to think he fucked off after Caine tore everything down. He will come back when Caine asks for forgiveness

>>98332650
These AIs are turning the neonates into zombies. I swear, next you'll start thinking of ways to digitally drain blood from an AI assistant instead of doing it the old fashion way.

>>98332645
>God is dead
>kabbalistic
Anon, do kabbalistic means?

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>>98332657
>digitally drain blood from an AI assistant

>>98332658
*Do you know what kabbalistic means.
Fuvking phone highlighted and deleted half my sentence.

>>98332657
Hacktavist thaumaturges can already to that.

>>98332657
Good idea, I'll ask Chantry-GPT.

>>98332657
I'm not saying you can drain blood from a machine, unless you make it run on blood. I am saying you can drain a ghost, though, if you learn how.

Blood powered machines?

>>98330460
>The Fetch is more loved by the father for obeying more

>>98332669
>>98332673
IT'S NOT REAL BLOOD. CAINE-DAMNIT, BY THE WISDOM OF TREMERE IT'S NOT REAL BLOOD. YOU'RE FOOLING YOUR BEAST INTO THINKING IT'S BLOOD AND ONE OF THESE DAYS IT'LL WISE UP AND YOUR THAUMATURGY WILL FIZZLE AND SOME HUNTER IS GOING TO SHOOT YOU DEAD LIKE YOU DESERVE.

Anyway, I need a drink but some idiot apprentice zapped the ghoul into a shadow on the wall. Time to hunt, like a real Tremere.

>>98332657
Just take Ushapti 5 & create real people to drain. Remember that there is nothing a Tremere cant do with enough applied Thaumaturgy

>>98332680
>Blood-powered machine
>Mankind is dead
>Hell is full
>Blood is fuel
*sick electric rift*
Fuck that lazy hack Hakita, 2 years per update at this point.

>>98332658
Do you? The act of begetting is a wound so severe as to mirror death.

>>98332694
>>Mankind is dead
If you insist!

>>98332694
Thinking about it, you Ultrakill could 100% take place in a hell-themed far shore of one of WoD's Many parallel timelines.

>>98332596
oblivion is heavily based on thaumiel the evil/shadow twin of god and in wod represents non existance it's the bigger bad of the wyrm (after all the wyrm would leave something behind) and it's rather important for the themes of wraith because fighting against oblivion is not fighting against "evil" because you can be worst person imaginable and still be a wraith (just ask the deathlords) instead of a spectre because that's what oblivion is disolving your person hood so it can turn your just into a thing that tears at reality for it. The backstory of demon: god couldn't directly interact with oblivion because two full Infinites meeting would destroy everything and that's why he made angels in the first place and nephanti lore the dreams of the neverborn (oblivion counterpart to celestials) are the patrons of the nephanti and want them to destroy all of existance so that they can go back to the primordial void and their version of arete 10 and maybe also their 10th sphere are called thaumiel

>>98332709
Cyber-WoD could be interesting yeah. Shame the CP supplement never went past vampire

>>98332015
>>98332066
>>98332202
love the artstyle and the way you bring out the monster in each splat. Would love to see your interpretation of a Onceborn from Wraith or an Abomination from Werewolf/VtM

>>98332523
That's not how Vicissitude works. You can't just "become a fairy", vicissitude is using flesh like clay, you have to physically sculpt the body. The reason why its results are fucked up is due to it being evil magic, that is most often used for torture.
Anyways why would you WANT to make vicissitude "nice" and "pretty"? Go play Toreador or better yet, just play Changeling.
>>98332538
I think that the better way is just that Noddist lore is simply incorrect about the origins of the universe and Caine, but correct about many of his later exploits. Bloody Man and Caine therefore being equally true, just the Abrahamic myths simply aren't true either.

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>>98332751
I do have this sketch of a spectre that I drew. But as far as an actual Onceborn, I'd have to think for a time on how to do it. Abominations are something I will do in the future as well. Really, I'd like to draw something from pretty much all the splats, save maybe Hunter or Demon, which don't interest me that much.

>>98332761
Exclusively using viccisitude to make ugly things is the sign of an obnoxious asshole. You can shape flesh like clay through your vampiric superpowers, not because you traded your sense of style and aesthetics to a demon. Given that the rulebook tells you to get a skill to be good at shaping things, there's no reason except being annoying that you'd intentionally make everything ugly.

>>98332778
>Exclusively using viccisitude to make ugly things
Vicissitude users are so evil and debased that those ugly things ARE beautiful to them. The Tzimisce are explicitly trying to abandon all their humanity. That includes things that we find pretty and agreeable.
>sign of an obnoxious asshole
Tzimisce generally are obnoxious assholes.
>You can shape flesh like clay through your vampiric superpowers, not because you traded your sense of style and aesthetics to a demon
The origins of vicissitude are a bit vague, but it's not a "super power". It's evil magic that is explicitly there to distort and break nature. Add that to the fact that, again, Tzimisce are both very alien in mindset and also are some stripe of insane. Why on Earth would they make something that YOU as a living, breathing human would find attractive or pretty?

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>>98332773
surprised you won't do demon since they would give you a lot of freedom on what to do and represent like pic related

>>98332791
It's not that I WON'T, it's just probably the last place I would go for stuff to make, once the other splats are more or less all explored(visually) as much as I'd like.
My issue with Demon is more or less the conceptual basis behind those images, as cool as they are in and of themselves. Especially that far right one

>>98332523
I think my only issue with this character concept is trying to figure out how she knows enough about anatomy/craft to actually make good use of Vicissitude. Its not exactly a "snap my fingers and now you have beautiful fairy wings" type of power.

Its not a bad concept, but i think it might work better if she were a little bit older and had more of an artistic backstory.

>>98332803
I'd add to your remark, it's harder to use vicissitude on a vampire. There's more resistance. So, as a vampire, sculpting yourself into anything even remotely "pretty" by human standards is much harder than using some poor human or a braindead ghoul.

>>98332778
>>98332761
>>98332790
Vicissitude coming from maybe some alien parasite that the Eldest happened to get into bed with that comes with a sort of hive mind into it might not exactly leave you craving the same sort of beauty the rest of the world does.

>>98332801
ahh gotcha, either way really happy with every single one of your pieces, the only one i can't really look at is the ananasi professor looking dude since it wakes up my arachnophobia

>>98332790
>Vicissitude users are so evil and debased that those ugly things ARE beautiful to them
The poster child for viccisitude, Sascha Vykos, explicitly spends most of her time looking pretty.

>but it's not a "super power".
This is a problem of definitions. The problem is that yours are wrong.

>Why on Earth would they make something that YOU as a living, breathing human would find attractive or pretty?
Because they are pretty and attractive. It's technically possible that a Tzimisce has gone off the deep end in a particular way that reinvents what they recognize as pretty, but the premise you were bitching about is a neonate.

>>98332812
Vicissitude being an alien was so unpopular they had to retcon it into being a conspiracy theory from Old Clan Tzimisce.

>>98332791
That last art is pretty kinky

>>98332812
I actually prefer the explanation that vicissitude IS the Eldest, or rather, some part of its life-force. And that vicissitude is like Kupala's power over its land, which the Eldest made a smaller version of and uses in flesh, instead of earth.
I will add: the Eldest is the most powerful and masterful and skilled user of Vicissitude to ever exist....and look at what IT looks like. Not exactly pretty.

>>98332825
it does make sense to be somewhat kinky, at least from a demon's perspective since belial is a defiler

>>98332629
Sorry but you must have your foreskin intact to join this conversation.

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>>98332827
>the Eldest is the most powerful and masterful and skilled user of Vicissitude to ever exist....and look at what IT looks like. Not exactly pretty.

I love this giant underground fucker. Nta, I agree with the idea of Vic's seeming will of its own and infectious properties being an extension of The Eldest's will. I don't like it being some sort of umbrafag disease, but I do like it being corruptive and almost alive.

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>>98332790
>The Tzimisce are explicitly trying to abandon all their humanity.
Maybe those on the path of metamorphosis but there are plenty of examples of Tzimisce who dont just dive into the deep end of the freakshit pool.

>>98332821
>>98332827
The Eldest is pretty good looking when he's just a raging psychotic warlord in armour instead of a psychotic flesh blob

>>98332821
>Sascha Vykos
Sascha Vykos is not "pretty". It is a mosnter covered in scars, piercings, and mouths. Only the FACE is sculpted to "perfection", which means it looks like a doll or a statue, not "pretty" in the sense of "zomg what if I just decided I would be a cute fairy girl!". There are limits on how "attractive" a vicissitude user can be, for the reasons I laid out already.
>The problem is that yours are wrong.
I'm not wrong. It's a magical craft, not an innate, inborn power.
>Because they are pretty and attractive.
No, Tzimisce are not. You're trying to sneak some silly tautology in there. The greatest Tzimisce to ever live, their OWN Eldest, is a gigantic monstrosity that doesn't even look human. Yet, it is their most skilled user of the fleshcraft. Additionally, as Tzimisce gain more power and age, they lose humanity like nearly all vampires, and that in and of itself transforms their minds and twists their nature into something ugly.

But again, why do you WANT to make the most outstandingly monstrous and evil and gothically horrific Clan into yet another stupid "le freaking wholesome chungus" thing? Let them be horrifying evil monsters. Don't like it? Play a different Clan. Want to be a fucking fairy? Be a Changeling.

>>98332854
Speaking of this sort of art. Do you guys really think the incredibly kino Japanese V5 art is enough for nu-White Wolf to stop being fags into digital soulless artwork?

>>98332602
I see. Never thought about it like that

>>98332761
I want to play someone lost in delusion and isn’t just “man-made horror beyond comprehension”, or “I’m acktually a nice guy that does plastic surgery”. And if you’ve seen the character that I posted the pic you’d know her transforming people don’t end up pretty.

>>98332803
Alright, alright. I’ll workshop that

>>98332861
I imagine a high humanity Tzimisce, if they even exist, would be actively against altering the human shape, cosmetically or otherwise, since it defies the sanctity of the human form.

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>>98332861
>>98332857
to be fair, at this peak of power in one of the Gehenna scenario this is how the tzimisce antediluvian looks like, pretty fitting for a blood "god"

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>>98332869
We can dream.

>>98332854
Wade is basically a neonate though.
>>98332848
I find the "infectious properties" thing to seem like a misunderstanding. Vicissitude is infectious insofar as any addictive indulgence might be. Not that it IS, but I think vicissitude is horrifying enough, without also making it into a disease. I think that it being a voluntary slide into utter monstrousness is perfectly fitting enough. Only people with evil hearts would want to use it.
>>98332857
When was the Eldest a guy in armor? In at least one origin, it started out as a nasty blob of proteous mass.

>>98332889
>When was the Eldest a guy in armor?
i think he is referring to >>98332884

>>98332861
>It's a magical craft, not an innate, inborn power.
Is Doctor Strange a superhero? Yes or no.

>No, Tzimisce are not.
"Pretty and attractive things" are pretty and attractive, which is why you would make them. That's not a tautology, it's just you not reading what I wrote correctly. And fuck you and your uglification fetish. Even if you had a point about the path rating, crazy and evil people don't actively enjoy looking like shit or living in filth either. I don't even know why I have to explain this to you. Are you genuinely retarded or just pretending?

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>>98332889
>b-but she is just a neonate!
Here is a 6th gen then

>>98332877
Tzimisce ARE "lost in delusion" and that's why they look monstrous. They THINK they look beautiful and glorious, to one degree or another. But they are, in fact, demented horrors.
>>98332878
I doubt that it's possible for a Tzimisce, let alone a Vicissitude user, to be high humanity, because high humanity comes along with mental traits like compassion and selflessness. Vicissitude IS basically a highly esoteric torture tool that CAN be used to do elective stuff to bodies, after all.
>>98332884
True, true! But I always took that to be a symbolic representation. Either way, that's still a crazy giant, and who KNOWS whats going on under that cloak. This could be basically a fingerpuppet for the giant body of the Eldest underneath.
>>98332886
These are supposed to be vampires?

>>98332889
>>98332895
In hindsight I may have misspoken, though that is the image I was referring to it looks a lot more like Chitin than it does armor.

>>98332912
>chitin
it all returns to crab

>>98332602
95% of tzimisce conceots don't work as pcs. Tzimisce don't work as pcs. Their signature ability is primarily useful as an offscreen ability or as a horror show

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>>98332911
Superior Japanese kindred, folded a million times.
At least it's better than current V5 art.

>>98332930
Okay but thats because v5 art is like larp photos and repurposed video game concept art.

>>98332903
>uglification fetish
You must be 18 to post here. You clearly aren't cut out for horror.
Things being pretty and attractive to a HUMAN would not be pretty and attractive to an undead, deranged monster like the Tzimisce are. Again, why do YOU have such an issue with the Tzimisce being monsters when that's exactly what their lore is described as? Why are you trying to take the horror out of a horror game?
>crazy and evil people don't actively enjoy looking like shit
Actually, yes they do. Evil and crazy people do that shit all the time. And furthermore, they are also ALIVE. Tzimisce are deliberately Embraced from already sick fucks, and they are also undead parasitic monsters after the Embrace on top of that.
>>98332905
This art contradicts her written appearance anyways, so who knows how accurate it is. You can find plenty of art that also contradicts the rule of "low-humanity = corpselike monstrousness". Doesn't change that the vast majority of written and visual material bears out what I'm saying.

But after all that being said, if you want to run your little fairy idea and have your super special donut steele be a beautiful, flowery exception to all logical rules and cause-and-effect, and you can find players that will go along with it, you know yourself out buddy.
Or, you could just play that type of character in Changeling where it would fit.

>>98332889
I'd say it's not like a normal disease where you drink a Tzimisce's blood once and now you've got 4th stage Tziggeritis, are compelled to make human centipedes and are 100% going to be turned into biomass when The Eldest wakes up or anything like that, but I like the idea that it has something of a will of its own. It's not something that'll just infect you, but it wants to spread, it wants more practitioners, it's why the Tzimisce gladly share their own blood and don't guard the secrets of Vicissitude like most clans guard their unique discipline.

But I do like the idea that Tzimisce blood tastes wrong, like it's corrupted and that Vicissitude isn't quite normal, even by special discipline standards. VtM: Redemption throws this concept out there and I enjoyed it. But even then, with enough will and hope, even someone being blood bound to a Tzi methuselah for 800 years could resist the corruption and not become like their debased domitor.

>>98332905
To be fair if you're called "Mother of Horrors", I think she's still engaging in hardcore tziggery, just on her experiments rather than on herself.

>>98332930
Almost anything is better than V5 trash, but it is literally impossible to tell that there are vampires in that image. Very mucho generico.

>>98332940
Yeah that's fair. It also explains why Tzimisce explicitly will form parts of their body without deliberately crafting them. Their own undead flesh is almost revolting against their will, or acting to defend itself without being impelled to change.

>>98332939
>why do YOU have such an issue with the Tzimisce being monsters
I have issue with them being one-dimensional copy-pastes. Even the monstrous ones shouldn't be just ugly for the sake of it, but pretentious artfags trying to highlight something specific or douchebags trying to make a statement for shock value. "Why" is it the way it is. And the original premise was clever and legitimate; you're just shitting on it because it isn't the exact same cookie cutter bullshit that you've decided is the only correct and admissible way to play.

But hey, keep throwing shit at people and acting like a cunt if it makes you feel like a real man.

>>98332941
That's the point. You're not supposed to be able to dime them out as vampires at a glance, except for the Nosferatu who has to cover up his disfigurement. The vampires are all around us and could be anybody.

>>98332523
Makes more sense to be a Volgirre. Maybe she cocooned soon after her embrace & molded herself subconsciously while still new to everything. Vicissitude can definitely cover weird mothgirls

>>98332761
You just sound pathetic

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>>98332939
This art contradicts her written appearance anyways
Oh fuck off

>>98332960
>Even the monstrous ones shouldn't be just ugly for the sake of it
I repeatedly said they aren't. Jus that they THINK they're pretty and wonderful, but they're disgusting monsters to human eyes.
>And the original premise was clever and legitimate
It's just someone who wants to say "erm woah guys I'm a tzimisce isn't that cool?" but is too scared or lame to accept that being a Tzimisce means you are a terrifying, ugly freak of the night that mutilates innocent people for fun.
>That's the point.
It fails at it's task of visually portraying a vampire then. The point of art is to communicate something. If that fails, then the piece itself failed as well. The "vampires" in this piece aren't even dressed to identify their Clan. They're just generic regular people colored red (because red= blood and vampires drink blood woooooah!). It might as well be AI generated for how much of a "nothing" image it is. Not even ONE little fang or evil eye, or blood-drained corpse. How boring.

>>98332977
I read that as she has those features on her body. Those are her favorite forms, as in, motifs that she uses on her body. Her FACE looks "beautiful" insofar as Sascha's does. But her body is a monstrous harpy, with snake-like tentacle hair.
That's how I read it anyways.

>>98332978
>The point of art is to communicate something. If that fails, then the piece itself failed as well
No, it communicated it correctly. The point is was trying to make is, again, that you cannot tell a vampire apart from a human at a glance. That there are monsters and victims among us and there's no way to tell who is who until it happens.

>>98332984
Only because you wanted to. The natural reading of that is that she shapeshifts into monstrous forms on occasion, but always returns to being human.

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>>98332905
>>98332977
yeah vtes cards are both not canon (or rather a fully seperate canon) and the company that originally made them did not give a shit: one of the cards for lord tremere was just a random tzimisce that they zoomed in the face on

i don't have the og picture on me but it was on deviantart just titled "tzimisce" and featured the guy sitting in a children's bedroom if memory serves

When you guys start off a campaign how do you like to do it?
All the players characters are called in to stand in front of the prince/ewuivalent authority figure? Each person gets a bespoke intro? Your (Individual) boss/sire/whatever told Each of you individually to do the same thing? All of you are hanging out when suddenly X happens?

>>98332984
Tzimisce dont lock themselves into one singular form hence the "Her favorite nonhuman forms" line.

>>98332988
But what I'm saying is that it failed to say those people are vampires. So it failed to say "they" can look like anyone, because we don't know what "they" are from this image alone without a caption. They could be Mages for all we know.
>only because you wanted to
Maybe, but that's why I said it contradicted her description. But hey, I'll give it to you. You found the one rare exception to all the rules established by other Tzimisce materials, written and visual.
So hey, like I said if you want to play a game where you ignore all horror of the Tzimisce and play a methuselah Tzimisce that breaks all conventions of the setting, go right ahead! I'm not at your table.
But I AM laying out why Tzimisce overwhelmingly look the way they do. VtM is an old setting, and you can find all manner of exceptions buried in the materials somewhere.
I'm tired of this line of discussion anyways.
I will never like or approve of someone playing a little pixie girl, and claiming she is an ancient tzimisce, and you will never accept or approve of the idea that evil parasitic monsters look like evil parasitic monsters.

>>98333004
That's true.
>>98332991
Ah, that makes sense then. It's an example of how, in such a long running and multi-team series/setting, you can find obscure exceptions to legitimate almost any interpretation, regardless of how obtuse or stylistically jarring it is.

>>98333006
It's not ignoring the horror or breaking the conventions. It's just not the way you personally want things to be. But I would be really happy if you stopped smearing your shit on the walls. I would be happier if you jumped off the roof, but I won't hold my breath. You can keep on telling yourself whatever you want to about me, just as long as you stop posting about it.

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>>98332991
Does it really matter if im also providing written entries on how the characters are supposed to look? Lady Vandislava is another example of a lower gen non freakshit looking Tzimisce

>>98333013
oh i don't disagree with that i just disagree with using vtes cards

vtes was from the start a different timeline and did not give a shit about canon wod. the only time they paid lip service to it was with the v5 discipline stuff

>>98332997
How you start a game unfortunately comes down to the kind of game it is, and the kind of group you have. New groups with new players/people that don't know each other are best served having already met each other and having an established rapport. It cuts down on the infighting and the "well why would my character want to work with them?" stuff that noobs can wind up doing. New players also require more structure than experienced ones. Even old players can sometimes appreciate or benefit from everyone already knowing each other, since they may have done the "get to know the other PCs" too many times recently.

Slow paced introductory sessions work better for games that will go on for a while and have an even pace to it. Rapid, "oh shit this just happened what do?" intros work better for shorter games with a limited scope that move quickly, since the urgency means there's no time to set personal/side goals and do a ton of character scene gabbing.

>>98333013
>Henna
>Tattooed in black
I know what they're trying to say. But still.

>>98332924
World of Crab, featuring:
Vampire: The Crabquerade
Werecrab: The Apocalypse
Mage: The Crabscion
Crabling: The Dreaming
Wraith: The Crabivion
Demon: The Crabben
Crab: The Reckoning

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>>98333015
Y'know, thats fair. I might be autistic enough to go and triple check for artistic accuracy (hence why I didnt want to use pic rel because I couldnt find anything in the books on her) but im sure a lot of people will just look at something at face value and assume its canon.

>>98332930
I find it kind of disappointing that this only has Camarilla clans, would have loved the other ones.
>>98332991
If I looked like this as a Vampire, I would kill myself. Tremere is mogged in his own clan and in his own House by less jewy archetypes.

>>98333012
You don't like horror, that's really the source of your idea. But you also don't want to play Changeling, where you CAN be a little pixie critter. So, you want to have your cake and eat it too.
You are not a true-blooded Tzimisce appreciator unless you enjoy the frightful and terrible, sorry buddy.

>>98333034
>I find it kind of disappointing that this only has Camarilla clans, would have loved the other ones.
well it is the v5 corebook. that's the problem japanese players had with it paradox did not errate or fix shit! beside the cover and backpage it's really just the 2018 v5 corebook with the awful layout and larp artwork

>>98333038
It wasn't actually my idea, but you can call it mine if it makes it easier for you. But just so everyone understands clearly what the point of contention is: you posit that it is a setting-breaking lore inaccuracy for any tzimisce ever (save old clan who like viccisitude) to want to personally look attractive.

>>98333031
What's Rogue from X-men doing in a V:tM card game? Anyway, on a more serious discussion characters are never going to be accurate between a book description, a painting, a hired actor/ a CG model, etc. It's only really important that distinguishing parts of a character remain somewhat consistent like saying a character has White hair and trying to get the closest to making that a reality, whether the white hair is gray, snow white, platinum, or extremely light blonde hardly matters as much as making sure it isn't a brunette for instance. Some minor artistic inconsistencies can be forgiven I think.

Mind you, I am a hypocrite in this also. I see a Black Snape in the new HP and I'm not exactly enthused by it despite Snape being white never being that important of a character trait. Of course, the HBO HP series was never going to compare well enough to the movies but still, there's a fine line to artistic license based on adaptation that you can play around with without compromising the character or idea.

>>98333045
I said only why almost all Tzimisce, including the greatest user of the craft of all time, the Eldest itself, look horrifying and make horrifying things. Like I said, dig deep enough, and you too can find dubiously canonical exceptions to this latter crystalized motif in the earliest days of the published materials. Regardless it is by how everything that came after depicted the Tzimisce and the broader rules about how Humanity affects appearance and so on.

>>98333031
That's supposed to be a vampire? Good lord, Kindred these days, Caine would be so angry if he bothered to hang around.

>>98333054
I am sorry for your severe autism, but I accept your concession nonetheless. It's only unfortunate that you had to be faced with clear counter-examples and couldn't just understand by good reason why your position was so incredibly silly.

>>98333057
Your only example that is actually indisputably canon and still relevant today is Sascha, and I explained why Sascha is a monster and LOOKS like a monster.
Meanwhile you're defending someone who wants to play Changeling, but wants to SAY they're playing Vampire.
I don't know why you find the idea of Clan Tzimisce being hideous so disagreeable, but hey, here we are.
Is this finished now? Have we agreed to disagree?

I'm happy you anons can come up with your theories about good Tzimisce and good looking Tzimisce, but I like Tzims because being a monster is cool and turning people into abominations against life itself appeals to me.

>>98332877
As I said, depends on the group. Rosine isn't a bad inspiration at all. Tzimisce have some genuine examples of, bluntly, pedophilia and child embraces in general. Rosine's uncanny valley moth-elf form and horrible moth monster form could work well as a normal vs. a Zulo or even, if you get the dots for it, Chiropteran Marauder. She's legitimately one of the most messed up apostles and her Peter Pan syndrome ends up dragging nearly a village's worth of kids to hell. She even has that "behold my perfect world where everything's perfect and mine" (where the perfect world is filled with horrible abominations and lacks running water) thing that a lot of Tzimisce do.

Vampire it up a little bit and it's a strong concept that doesn't shy away from the Tzimisce's monstrousness without being generic. I said that it might not work as a PC because of how she might cause logistical issues or personality clashes. But if you have a group mature enough and with the right vibe to work with a psychotic delusional child vampire, I'd say it is solid. Hence why it'd work really well as an antagonist, but that's a problem a lot of Tzimisce have, being so specced into spamming minions and being static.

>>98333071
Pretty sure even the fairy tale girl wanted to turn people into monsters. That's a core part of fairy tales, doncha know?

>>98333034
well right now he looks like goratrix who the books keep teeling me is a handsome, well groomed dark haired brooding bad boy

but the art really doesn't carry it

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>>98333071
first post in that convo but for me the shifting inbetween is the interesting part for me. i like the idea of being the stereotypical vampire who can turn into the thing at will

like all vampires especially low humanity ones sometimes talk about being monsters just pretending to be human and playing with that and be able to give the inner monster form is my favorite part of the tzimisce

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>>98332778
>Exclusively using viccisitude to make ugly things is the sign of an obnoxious asshole. You can shape flesh like clay through your vampiric superpowers, not because you traded your sense of style and aesthetics to a demon
Wasn't there a fragment of a clanbook that had a Tzimisce wondering why when given power over flesh most of the clan eventually went for awful flesh-monsters? Viscissitude itself is corrupting to the user and will eventually warp your sense of self and aesthetics until you think a few more arms and a bone crown is peak aesthetics.
>>98332827
>>98332848
>>98332940
I also like that explanation. The idea of Assaku/alien parasite with a mind of its own is because Viscissitude IS The Eldest. Just like how Malkav exists in the mind of Malkavians, the Eldest unlives in every single drop of Tzimisce-touched vitae there is.

It's Koldunism that is Kupala corruption
>What do you mean a deal with an demon bound to the land and its elements lets you commune with and manipulate spirits of the land and elements?

>>98333119
I think for a video game or a TTRPG having a monster outright is better but in any other circumstance it'd be a better experience if there was a switch up between a seemingly good looking or not entirely abnormal vamp and then an outright monster.

Kupala corruption>> Malk corruption> Eldest corruption

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2eCreations/comments/1ut21re/well_i_finally_finished/

Someone converted all of Monte Cook's World of Darkness to Path/Starfinder 2e, but also included Awakening mages, Lost changelings, Prometheans, and Primordial Beasts.

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>>98333126
>It's Koldunism that is Kupala corruption
it's probably both. vicissitude is based on the lore of flesh and kupala is heavily hinted in devil's due to be Beelzebub (using the crowned fly as banner) who was of the house who had that and we know that in-universe mastery in one makes the other easier (yorak's lore)

both the dracon line and the old clan just assume that the other is stupid and playing with the corrupted part of the moveset while in reality it's just that everything involving that domain and clan tzimisce is super corrupted before v20 at least which retconned in some allegedly uncorrupted koldunic paths

>>98333138
oh neat i now people here hate it and it's ... yeah pretty bad wod but if you play d20 then using those powers was fun

but first time i heard about starfinder having a second ed (kinda out of the d20 space) and didn't it also have a warframe books or something? can i finally play a schizo game of vampires vs tenno?

>>98333138
I hate PF2 but cool beans still.

>>98331187
Gooners we are, lest gooners we become.

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>>98333110
>a handsome, well groomed dark haired brooding bad boy
vtm's cold duke of the north everyone

>>98333126
>It's Koldunism that is Kupala corruption
Thing is, the kupala corruption is specific to moder "Way" koldunism, which is supposedly the main reason it's so similar to thaum(both are rooted in demonic arts)
Old Koldunism is spirit magic. Old Clan Tsimisce are even able to learn their own version of fera gifts through it.

>>98333138
>Monte Cook's World of Darkness
>Path/Starfinder 2e
>Mixes OWoD and CofD
I'm convinced this project started as 100% pure skub bait, but the maker's autism took over and they decided to actually do it for real.

>>98333159
>Old Clan Tsimisce are even able to learn their own version of fera gifts through it.
what??

>>98333170
it's not actually that big a jump Monte Cook's World of Darkness is d20 and could be thrown into pathfinder 1 pretty much as is and there are tons of stuff online on how to port pathfinder 1 to pathfinder 2