>>98376150
>old horror icons were:
>a pedophile
>a clown
Those stopped being scary when everyone realized pedophiles and clowns have been running our government for decades.

>>98376150
I remember someone analyzing it to how zoomers fear alienation and homogenization over physical horror and violence or something like that.

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>>98376167
The Technocracy turns their attention away for ONE (1) internal power struggle bordering on an open civil war, and the Masses just go full retard in a single decade.

>>98376172
I wonder how this is reflected in the Dreaming? Suddenly Winter doesn’t seem so bad.

>>98376179
>The Dreaming just turns into office spaces with uncanny valley human fae
>They all seethe over it

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>How would you implement modern horror icons into your games?

Combine the backrooms concept with Danny the Street and then make Danny an Incel, since further marginalizing mental illness is hot right now.

So from that mix, you would have a sapient para-causal space that can change according to mood or whim, which also becomes obsessive over any retard that gets trapped inside it.

>>98376172
>I remember someone analyzing it to how zoomers fear alienation and homogenization over physical horror
I wonder how this relates to isekais going from power fantasies to "I just want a slow life away from the crushing grip of capitalism".

>>98376150
>TQ
I never actually vibed too much with the backrooms despite being in the right age bracket for it. But the idea of being trapped in extradimensional space in general is pretty easy to work into WoD. Just make it some part of the Shadow/Hedge/Umbra/Underworld depending on what game you're running and what best fits the tone. Haven't seen Obsession yet, but I've heard she's possessed and it happens because of a temu magic item that grants one wish. So could be a shady wizard, or something Pentex.

>>98376172
Well yeah, he was actually engaging with the material and drawing conclusions as to why the genre changed, rather than just engaging in the demoralization propaganda that is generation-based tribalism.

Older horror focused on killers because of the growing awareness and prevalence of killers, especially striking in "nice neighborhoods". Now it focuses on social atomization. One's afraid for their lives; the other's afraid for their soul.

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>>98376175
Clown hands typed this.

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*ˢnᶦᶠᶠ ˢnᶦᶠᶠ*
ʰᵉˡˡᵒᵒᵒ? ᶦˢ ᵗʰᵉ ʷᵉᵇ ᶜᵒnnᵉᶜᵗᵉᵈ?
*ˢnᶦᶠᶠ*
ᵈᵃᵐn ᵗʰᵉᵘʳᵍᵉ ᶜᵃn'ᵗ ᵉᵛᵉn ᵖʳᵒᵖᵉʳˡʸ ᵗʳᵃᶦn ᵃ nᵉᵗ ˢᵖᶦᵈᵉʳ
*ˢnᶦᶠᶠ*
ah there we go
*Rrff*
voices of the web, has anyone seen moon-chaser?
he was last seen consorting with weaver spirits trying to track down bread-slave

>>98376020
I think that would promote a lot more cross-splat play than would be manageable for the Storyteller

>>98376194
>Danny the Street
Is this a mortals splat?
>>98376196
imo it's a similar phenomenon. Isekai power fantasies are about being the cool jock but because being the cool jock is douchey and lame (hypergamy has made 9+/10 chads the enemy of envy) they're instead about cultivating good friends, being a positive influence on the community, and being away from the evil of the
>shareholders

Methinks it's more to do with the state of Japanese capitalism making even dating girls a harrowing prospect since you're (as a nip) competing with rich married sugar daddies and tall/hung foreigners while your elders and boss berate you for being a cuck but not giving you any time to date or have a family. Japan is weird like that
>>98376197
True, I suppose older horror movies fear stories of Dahmer or Bundy and made men and women fear getting raped and murdered as those stories spread and influenced filmmakers, and now zillennials (and some gen alpha) mainly see the decline of culture and the rise of safe horny and safe offensive killing all the soul everywhere. Ironically, the backrooms itself has lost what soul it had to too much lore, AI, and capital.

I suspect future horror trends will go around to sanitized thinking and dominance of the mind, mind control, AI teachers, etc.

>>98376150
Frankly the room is the scariest one out of all of those.

>>98376218
Too busy tracking down my Theurge after the mutt (affectionate) ran off into the woods because of the Glass Walkers.

>>98376172
The millennial horror is absolutely "spooky monster, but actually it's mental illness."

>>98376227
>Is this a mortals splat?
>Danny the Street is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. Danny is a living and sentient piece of urban geography who can magically and seamlessly place themself in any urban landscape at will without any disruption to his surroundings. They can freely interact with any other sapient being through various forms of visual printing within their proximity.

>>98376230
imo the backrooms themselves aren't that scary, just eerie. Nightmare on Elm Street the movie is kinda scary in motion, good directing goes far. And backrooms was well directed, just that it did not often do straight horror. Lot of atmosphere though, many goosebumps.

>>98376234
Is that It or is that some other movie I can't think of right now? There's a few indie films that don't fall into this framework like Blair Witch or the Korean livestreamer one who's name I forgot. Some bigger films too like the Exorcist (which I guess is technically a form of mental illness) and Insidious.

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>>98376193

>>98376227
>Danny the Street
It’s a DC character, entity, introduced during Grant Morrison’s run on Doom Patrol. Basically a sentient street. Apparently an homage to a cross-dressing musician, Danny LaRue. La rue, if you didn’t know, being French for “the street”.

>>98376224
Then we should streamline it, since that's what the players want.

>>98376227
>and now zillennials (and some gen alpha) mainly see the decline of culture and the rise of safe horny and safe offensive killing all the soul everywhere
Changeling: The Dreaming wasn’t supposed to be a documentary.

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>>98376227
>I suspect future horror trends will go around to sanitized thinking and dominance of the mind, mind control, AI teachers, etc.

>>98376227
>safe horny
What even is safe horny other than pedos whining about getting ostracised?

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>>98376015
Does the World of Darkness do optional mechanics?

>>98376279
>That pic
Oh, so that’s what Mummy: The Cursed was referencing.

>>98376238
>>98376248
Damn, that's pretty cool.
>>98376258
Changeling the Dreaming, much like other unintentional philosophical works (Industrial Society etc...) seem to be rather prescient over the future plagues of human society.

>>98376266
Yeah, but just ramp that shit up to 20. Murderous japanese sex bots, awakened sex toys going on a murderous rampage. Death through gooning, etc. Loss of masculinity to a robot succubus, we can go further.
>>98376272
Safe horny is less about age and more about only being allowed to open complement (and not lust for, even) a curvaceous woman of the state-approved body type that is not thin and at a minimum of certain BMI. Essentially, Bayonetta = normal horny, MJ from Spider-Man 2 is safe horny.

I like safe horny...

>>98376302
I think "safe horny" is more like a set of fetishes that normies on the internet approve of, like "step on me mommy", lightly muscled women with abs, "goth gfs", shit like that.

>>98376194
>Danny the Street and then make Danny an Incel
Impossible, Danny's gay

>>98376272
There is no definition for safe horny because literally everyone has their own definition of it. It just means "thing I don't like".

>>98376297
The concept of a sapient living space, be it a street, mall or house, isn't new, the house in the Amityville Horror is old as fuck and was smart like a person, so taking Danny and making them into more of a horror set piece (which they arguably already are) in WoD seems to me like an easy reach.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3iPA76hrjs
Like what if a particularly powerful Tzimisce decided to just fleshcraft his entire hangout spot?

To steer this into being relevant, the Traditions I believe would find “safe horny” to be anathema
>Cult of Ecstasy
Do I really need to explain this one?

>Verbena
Against it on the grounds that they believe sex, the source of new life, is an animalistic and primal act, and there should be nothing “safe” about. Also, something about the feminine mystique or some bullshit like that.

>>98376323
I thought safe horny was contingent on which way the societal weather vein was spinning at the time.

>>98376334
>Like what if a particularly powerful Tzimisce decided to just fleshcraft his entire hangout spot?
That didn’t turn out so well last time.
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Flesh

>>98376323
I just thought it meant "this would normally be bare ass, but we need corporate to like us, so it isn't"

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The last digit determines your splat.
0 - mortal
1 - vampire
2 - werewolf
3 - mage
4 - Promethean
5 - changeling
6 - sin-eater
7 - mummy
8 - demon
9 - beast

>>98376341
So what if said Tzimisce WAS the hangout spot?

>>98376343
I hope I don’t get Promethean or Sin-Eater so I can act like I got a WoD splat instead >:)
I don’t acknowledge Beast.

>>98376305
No judgement to anons and people who like safe horny, but safe horny is safe because it's approved. I miss thin goths man, I miss them so bad.

>>98376336
I can agree with his. After all, safe horny is a technocracy invention.

>>98376348
I’m a Reconciler Defiler lmao

>>98376318
>This street on my block is a gay transvestite
I don't think I would willingly walk down a block if I knew that block was also sentient and Frank-N-Furter coded.

>>98376343
>Victim-tier
>Woe is me tragedy with abs and fangs
>Me so horny *shot 15 times by a corpo*
>I'm a sanctioned psyker watch this
>Woe is me tragedy with pecs and brains
>Ayyyyyyyy help me the Taxman is after me
>I sure do love being a ghost
>I sure do love being a ghost sometimes. And FUCK Set.
>This Lucifer fella sure is talking my ear off about humans
>Hehe, I'm gonna make human centipede look PG
Bonus for double digits (Wraith)
>Boy I sure do hate being a ghost (says Man having the time of his death enslaving people)

>>98376360
Look, the human is speaking like it matters. HAHAHA

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>>98376366

>>98376358
Well Danny wouldnt let you walk all over him either, uggo

>>98376345
The Cathedral is also a Tzimisce, generation unknown although possibly 4th now after diablerizing its creator

>>98376343
I shall roll mage on purpose

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>And this is how you remind me of what I really am
>This is how you remind me of what I really am
>I've been wrong, I've been down
>Been to the bottom of every bottle
>These five words in my head scream
>"Are we having fun yet?"

>>98376387
Eh, close enough

>>98376366
>>98376368
It's not fair... I want to be cool also :(

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Can you give me some examples of fomori that do not have Immunity to Delirium, and what role they might have in a campaign?
I do think it would be funny if this mutation was missing from a Ferectoi's arsenal, but that's not necessarily the tone I'm going for

>>98376343
>Changeling
Which kind?

>>98376409
Aw geez, I don’t know, it’s not like the pic or the Promethean, Sin-Eater, or Beast option imply ANYTHING. Also, wow, you are a rapist.

>>98376409
That's the nWoD 1e book, so Lost, and Requiem, and Forsaken and so on
>>98376343
Check 'em

>>98376343
Where’s Deviant? :(
Is it safe? Is it alright?

>>98376416
I have not read either version of Mage. I think they call Paradox something else in nWoD?

>>98376381
That's fine, boundaries are important.

>>98376419
Deviant: The Renegade, more like Deviant: The Forgotten, amirite?

>>98376408
Maybe recent fomori who haven't had the time to fully develop yet? Just fodder meant to show the pack how bad the area is.

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>>98376368
>I'm human
We don't even need a lie detector for this one

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>>98376343
Rolling.
Let's see if i'm the one shooting or the one being shot

>>98376343
Let's see...

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>>98376343
Roll 1d5 to determine your x-splat.

Vampire clan: 1) Daeva, 2) Gangrel, 3) Mekhet, 4) Nosferatu, 5) Ventrue
Werewolf auspice: 1) Rahu, 2) Cahalith, 3) Elodoth, 4) Ithaeur, 5) Irraka
Mage path: 1) Acanthus, 2) Mastigos, 3)Moros, 4) Obrimos, 5) Thyrsus
Promethean lineage: 1) Frankenstein, 2) Galatea, 3) Osiris, 4) Tammuz, 5) Ulgan
Roll 1d6Changeling seeming: 1) Beasts, 2) Darklings, 3) Elementals, 4) Fairest, 5) Ogres, 6) Wizened
Sin-eater threshold: 1) The Torn, 2) The Silent, 3) The Prey, 4) The Stricken, 5) The Forgotten
Mummy decree: 1) Heart, 2) Spirit, 3) Essence, 4) Name, 5) Shadow
Roll 1d4Demon incarnation: 1) Destroyer, 2) Guardian, 3) Messenger, 4) Psychopomp
Roll 1d7Beast family: 1) Anakim, 2) Eshmaki, 3) Inguma, 4) Makara, 5) Namtaru,6) Talassii, 7) Ugallu

>>98376343
I'll give it a go.

>>98376343
Don't worry, I won't tell the angels, Mr. Integrator Messenger.

>>98376384
Doesn't the Antedeluvian also have a cathedral of flesh in it too?

>>98376409
Telling by Sin-Eater and Beast being on the listing and the 1e nWoD core book, CofD.

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>>98376441
Could be better.
Could be worse.

>>98376390
Fun is just a buzzword when you can't actually think of any real reasons as to why the game is good, don't use it.

>>98376419
I couldn't fit it in.

>>98376343
Might as well roll for angst.

>>98376446
>Doesn't the Antedeluvian also have a cathedral of flesh in it too?
there are atleast 3: yorak's, the eldest's and Vukodlak's but only yorak's can run around and act as avatar for kupala

>>98376419
Deviant, like Hunter, is part of Mortals.

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>>98376343
Rollin
>>98376419
It would seem in your anger, you killed it

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>98376348 >98376409 >98376416 >98376419 >98376440 >98376441 >98376446 >98376458 >98376387
Please see >>98376443.

>>98376230
>>98376150
The horror in obsession isn't the girl; it's what the male lead is willing to do to her. She's not the monster in the story. That's kind of the whole point.

>>98376343
please god anything but beast

Sidhe be Boggan on my Redcap Eshu moans and grinds, while I Slaugh on her Nockers til I Satyr in her Pooka

>>98376478
>Man was the REAL monster all along
Wow, haven’t heard that one a billion times before.

>>98376492
Mental Asylum, now.

>>98376492
Your trolls sir?

>>98376478
I think you may have slightly misunderstood it, that it is part of the horror also but he was just being kind of retarded. He's also not Incel material at all so it's pretty unrealistic

>>98376492
Be careful guys, this is clearly a Naming Bunk! Anon is about to Reweave us!

>>98376544
Any chances he improves us?

>>98376552
It's up to him, we can become anything from chairs to True Mages or just plain fetish bait futas with tentacles. Frankly I find this all to be very exciting.

>>98376552
>>98376558
I'm clearly becoming Almighty (a crab)

>>98376446
Could be worse.

>>98376443
Might as well.

>>98376492
I agree with >>98376500 since you clearly need to be Undone.

>>98376167
That doesn't make them MORE scary?

>>98376343
In nWoD? Hard pass.

>>98376167
New horror icon: a CEO.
He's rich and can just get away with whatever he wants to inflict in you.

>>98376343
i never played more than half of these, but i am addicted to rolling

>>98376636
oh neat geist is awesome

Rolled 3 (1d5)

>>98376343
>>98376343
Might as well

In W20, even a werewolf can't tell the difference between a pure mortal and a Kinfolk without some fuckery like the Scent of the True Form Gift, right? Or if they're haunted by a Kin-Fetch, or if they go Crinos in front of them

>>98376731
not w20 but in earlier editions sidestepping worked because fera and kinfolk look different from normies from the umbra

there was one very paranoid glasswalker who sidestepped every time he saw a spider because of this

>>98376478
>>98376499
It's like that AI movie, where the robot was the virgin girl survivor.

>>98376478
>The horror in obsession isn't the girl; it's what the male lead is willing to do to her.
No, the horror was in how evil and destructive the mechanism for the wish was.

The wish itself was basically just dumb pining with no expectation it would actually do anything, twisted into an exaggerated form while the guy just acted in a fashion to move the story to where it needed to go. It's my-first-monkey-paw movie.

The real horror is just how effective the viral advertising worked.

How does inter-Fera breeding work?
For example, is a Garou kinfolk marrying into a Bastet family or vice versa feasible?
Will their kinfolk offspring be considered belonging to Garou or Bastet or both? I assume the shifter would inherit the form from either parent.

>>98376478
Did he make an informed decision regarding the wish?

>>98376824
Fera genes take precedence
I don't think two full-blown Fera can have kids together
Garou + Kitsune Kinfolk = Garou Kinfolk/Garou
Might fuck with pure breed or spirit heritage or what have you but it's still possible, Kinfolk are just humans.

>>98376836
>Might fuck with pure breed or spirit heritage or what have you but it's still possible, Kinfolk are just humans.
yeah prue breed does not even translate over tribe lines, but bastet kinfolk is not a seperate minior splat to garou kinfolk

so technically if your subsplat is lacking in human kinfolk you could raid wererat kinfolk families

>>98374159
Good call on Twilight not actually being a plane, I was playing fast and loose from all the references to ephemeral beings being "in" twilight. I've been reading through the Pack for ideas, and unfortunately it's not helped me narrow down my plans in the slightest.

>>98376828
The problem wasn't making the wish itself, it was that he kept indulging in it even after realizing what he'd done.

Rolled 2 + 1 (1d5 + 1)

>>98376343
>>98376443
Rolling

>>98376343
please not beast, please not beast

Rolled 2 (1d5)

>>98376934
>Promethean
wow, the one thing that's worse. nice

>>98376343
Fuck me up WoD

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>>98376613
No it just makes it kinda depressing

>>98376358
The Street is sentient
The Street is a gay cross dresser
The Street wants to suck you off

>>98376408
Fomori can be used in splats where Delirium is a non issue

>>98376482
Well, you still ended up beastly

>>98376899
>Namtaru Beast
Ok, I've never played Beast. What do?

>>98376234
Bpdemons are no joke

>>98376196
> I just want a slow life away from the crushing grip of capitalism
I don’t think it’s capitalism they reject considering how many slow life isekais are about shop keeping or adventuring for loot while under an “adventuring guild” that might as well be a corporation. It’s the oppressive system they are unconciously rejecting. It’s the devaluing and dehumanization they are rejecting.

>>98377026
It means you're something painful to look at. Ugly as sin, like the gorgon. Though three of the four examples given are actually "hyena monster that shapechanges into a beautiful person to lure victims," so you're only spiritually ugly.

>>98377039
Yeah lots of those ones have them making tons of money doing simple stuff. Its not anti capitalism, its just anti grind.

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>>98376343
Time to play Russian roulette!

>>98377026
>you have a horror monster in the back of your mind and you have to scare people to keep it fed, or it eats you
>every time you feed the monster, you might create a superpowered hater whose purpose in life is to kill you
>also you don't have a soul anymore, the monster ate it

have fun with that lol

>>98376150
Next big horror villain/movie is gonna be "The Stuff" but its a vape

>>98376234
see
>>98376197
>generation-based tribalism
Be better.

Rolled 2 (1d5)

>>98376343
Alright, let's go.

>>98376349
>thin goths
Those were always the minority, anon.
I am old enough to have actively participated in it during it's heyday; the smokeshows were never in any great supply, and would often get bullied out.

Rolled 2 (1d6)

>>98377075
Mother fucker, I gotta reroll now. Changeling might be the second worst pull, after Promethean, just because they can never get around their weakness.

>>98376806
This.
>>98376895
Anon, pointedly untrue.
There was a point in the movie where he didn't know what was going on, and a very obvious point where he did know what was going on, and trying to stop it, albeit unsuccessfully.

>>98376234
That's what most CofD games are about, especially Promethean, Changeling and Deviant. But most other splats have some weird compulsions as well.

>>98376343
Rolling

>>98377090
Hunter is really good for leaning way in to headcase problems.
I just started a HtV game, and within 3 sessions, every pc has at least 1 derangement.

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>>98377090
>>98377103
Hunters probably are insane, heck being a serial killer is their baseline, but they also are fighting the good fight.

>>98377043
>>98377061
So like, am I the monster or is it just some kind of soul parasite?

>>98377163
Both Beast and Geist are confusingly written about this. As a Beast, you are a Horror that has stolen a human's body, and are now suffering under some identity issues as you struggle to reconcile your mind-body dualism. (The same is true for Geists and Bound.)

>>98377167
Damn, I guess I'll go around scaring criminals, like a spooky ugly Batman then

>>98377167
>Geist
This is patently false, Geist is very upfront about the fact you made a deal with a superghost and you now have them as a copilot/mental roommate. Also your souls are inextricably merged now and trying to separate you is a really bad idea.

I feel like Leviathans are better than Beasts. Even Ahabs are better than Heroes

>>98377190
Better in which sense?

>>98377189
Geist uses similar language about the soul of the Bound departing and being replaced by the Geist. They are different in that the host agreed to it, but they aren't different in that the previous occupant is no longer there, only the creature, who now believes itself to be two different people but is explicitly not.

>>98377163
I think the original idea was that you're the monster, but the way the book is actually written, you're the human, and the monster is just chilling in the "Lair", and sometimes goes apeshit if you don't feed it.

>>98377197
But that's not the case, the Bound never departs, he's still there, just sharing his skull with a creepy super ghost. Where did you get that impression? Give me a page number.

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What part does the Umbræ play in Vampire?

>>98376751
Doesn't sidestepping take effort?

>>98377182
Beast also has the baggage that you're genuinely unironically a bad person and a predator(whether it's the murder or sexual variety doesn't matter, as long as you're hurting people).
The issue with beast is that at the end of development a retard on the writing team tried to have everything rewritten so the beast are "actually the good guys", despite the above still being the same.
So beasts are bpd creatures that believe moledting that choir boy was good for them and built character.

You will not be batman, you'll be a villain in denial.

>>98377231
Batman is objectively trying to do good, but his superpower is that his money loses all value when being spent on things that aren't Bat-themed.

>>98377208
>The Bargain replaces the Bound's soul, which departs at the moment of death — and that's where the geist's ephemeral form "lives."
Geist: the Sin-Eaters, second edition, page 100.

For reference,
>In essence, the Bargain, and the attendant merging of the human soul with the inhuman geist
Geist: the Sin-Eater, first edition, page 19.

If you go by first edition lore, you are correct, but they changed it in the second edition. Of course, they also changed ghosts in general to be merely psychic imprints on ectoplasm and not actual dead people, which nobody actually plays as being true instead of being a mage delusion pushed by DaveB.

>>98377212
>Doesn't sidestepping take effort?
Yes, but there are a lot of ways to make it easier. Especially for thuerges.

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>>98377231
He can still become a hero to 30%.

>>98377212
Some vampires can use necromancy, so they can make contact with the Low Penumbra. Some vampires can use thaumaturgy to make contact with spirits of the Middle Penumbra (Up to ST on whether you can communicate with non-wyrm spirits), and that's about it. Some vampires have the psychic power to astral project into the Upper Penumbra.

>>98376343
Common Daddy needs an 8.

>>98377212
>What part does the Umbræ play in Vampire?
Very little.
The middle/upper umbrae are extremely hostile to vampires. There's no mortals to feed on, everything that lives there hates you, and you can get ashed by a walking sun-spirit because their light counts as "The Sun" for the purposes of vampire weaknesses.

Ironically, the low umbrae/underworld is comparibly safe. Necromancy can let you feed on ghosts for ghost-vitae, the sun doesn't do shit there, and vampire necromancy lets you insta-bind any low-level wraiths that get uppity. Just avoid ferrymen and deathlords.

>>98377197
I think what the book says is that the soul is gone and is replaced by the Geist, same thing with Beast. But in CofD, the soul is not who you are, if you steal someone's soul and replace it with a different one, they remain the original person the whole time.

>>98377271
If your defense is the Chronicles redefined a common-use word but failed to actually provide the new definition at any point, I'm not really convinced that's useful in any way. It either means something or it means nothing, and by plain English, it means something.

>>98377243
>they changed it in the second edition
Say the fuck what?

>>98377266
actually deathlords are not any more resistant to necromancy than normal wraiths that's part of the reason why the hierachy wanted the true black hand GONE as soon as they heard about them and why they are working on keeping the giovanni from discovering striga and why they don't storm their wraith gulags

Did the spectre mapheans(onceborn or neverborn) ever get stats?

>>98377317
So only ferrymen get the "invalid target" buff since their shadow is off in the labyrinth instead of inside them?

>>98377341
yeah some got stats in orpheus
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Vidod

>>98377341
It's a very real lore possibility that Neverborn are just Fallen Earthbound that used the lore of realms to bind themselves to the underworld instead of the material world. The prison of the fallen is in oblivion itself, so the pull the neverborn exert on the low umbra toward oblivion might just be the pull toward the abyss that all fallen are stuck with.
No idea about onceborn, but gorool was disappointing when he was statted out.

>>98377354
>Just a spectre with access to thorns and no composure score
How disappointing. The wraith books make them out like antedeluvian level entities.

>>98376861
>Steal wererat jobs
>Take wererat spirits
>Seduce wererat families over to your side because your associates are failures in the eyes of Gaia
Ratbros need a break they didn't deserve this.

>>98377374
What did you expect? Arcanoi don't go higher than 5, so the best they have are secret versions of low level arcanoi or weird combo arcanoi

>>98376836
>Garou + Kitsune Kinfolk = Garou Kinfolk/Garou
>>98376861
>but bastet kinfolk is not a seperate minior splat to garou kinfolk
Actually, they are. The back of the corebook has a qna session where it explicitly says kin to one fera count as vanilla humans to another.
"Kinfolk" is a breed specific template. A garou fucking kitsune kinfolk can only make more kinfolk. You can also have separate purebreed scores for multiple different tribes fera types simultaniously according to the Possessed book.

The part that talks about kin/kin pairings in the core qna is also interesting, because that 1% true breeding chance stacks and the fera type is then rolled. This means a theoretical kinfolk to every fera breed has a minimum 10% chance of breedting true, then a d10 is rolled for fera. Fera can also be kin to other fera.

>TL;DR: The optimal strat would have been for fera to fuck each othet until "Kinfolk" was universal to every breed.

>>98377414
>>>TL;DR: The optimal strat would have been for fera to fuck each othet until "Kinfolk" was universal to every breed.
Amazing. How would it mess with the setting if we did that? Would everybody still hate Garou?

>>98377242
Strange curse if the Fae

>>98377425
>Would everybody still hate Garou?
Probably more than ever. If the fera didbthis pre-war-of-rage, then that mean the garou would have been killing any non-garou shifter that their kinfilk produced.

In fact, the garou would probably be the only shifter race with garou-only kinfolk since they'd have killed off so many other shifters and gated their own kin from other shifters for so long. The kinfolk "gene" for a specific fera dies out after only 3 generations of not introducing another kin or shifter of that fera into the bloodline.

Jumping off my previous post, my group is in the early part of a HtV game, and I've noticed, unlike all the other WoD games I've run, time is absolutely a thing.
The time passing for rolls like research and hacking add up in a considerable way. They spent almost 6 hours just kludging together clues from a murder scene to find a possible lead.
Is this what is to be expected in Hunter? Long periods of investigation, an hour of butt clenching terror?
>Viva la Slum Dog Billionaires!

>>98377414
By this logic why don't Fera just fuck each other if they can't make hybrids or Metis?

Anybody good with the hedgemage paths from sorcerer revisited? I am looking for a ritual/path level that lets people communicate over long distance. kind of a ham radio/cb radio by way of magic thing.

>>98377266
Plus Enoch can be comfy if a little lonely

>>98377414
>The shifters unironically reproduce more if they fuck each other
>Coalitions like the beast courts or the abaja get recognized by the spirit world and give members access to a 4th category of gifts beyond breed, tribe, and auspice.
>Fera can learn each other's gifts to level 3.
>Every shifter has a distinct role they're better at than other shifters
It's almost like they were meant to work together...

>>98377462
90% of a Hunter's time is investigation and setup, yes. The actual Hunt itself needs to be impactful, quick, and horrifying since your average normie hunter has pretty limited staying power relative to everything else. You can still have supernatural shit happening, but it shouldn't be part of the main hunt and either a confrontation with a minion, an associate, or running away from the quarry for being unprepared.

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>>98377243
>second edition

>>98377470
That's a great question anon. Why Don't They?

It's almost like a major theme in the books is how mind-breakingly retarded the fera have acted throughout their history and kept creating unnecessary division when they were purpose-built to work together...

>>98377462
I feel like this is how it goes in all monster hunting games, including stuff like Delta Green or Gurps: Monster Hunting.

>>98377473
Sounds like a good way for Banes to whisper corruption in your ear

>>98377490
Wait is Exalted just Fera, but with an excuse to be retarded via Great Curse?

>>98377501
Sure whatever, but how would one do it?

>>98377462
Generally, yeah. Though it can depend on the type of HtV game. Tier 3 can usually cut to the chase quicker with endowments.

As for how much session time it takes up, it'll probably take up less as the game goes on for and the PCs and players alike get more experienced with investigation. It's good to build up the monster in any case.

>>98377477
>>98377458
>>98377414

Its almost like they should be one big splat of Shifters. I mean, a garou can learn man-rat form since its a gift. Almost like ALL forms are gifts & maybe they just come prepackaged with certain ones along with the First Change. Kinfolk being one collective breed of spirit attuned humans with Shifters being even more powerful half spirit people.

>>98377520
Enchanting or Spirit Manipulation 4

>>98377533
Are your Drunk, Anon? This sounds way to sensible, esp. for oWoD.

>>98377533
Anon, I'm talking about actual already in-setting watsonian things that are true and why it proves the fera are doing things the most stupid way possible.

You're coming in with an out-of-universe doylist idea to rewrite that entire setting from the ground up. This isn't constructive or even relevant to the conversation.

>>98377538
Oh yeah, Enchanting is a great answer. Would a 2-dot enchantment work? I think so. Changing reality in a subtle but more noticeable or magical fashion to paraphrase the book. Seems to fit. Thanks, Anon.

>>98377538
>Spirit Manipulation 4
Anon, that's thaumaturgy. Not sorcery. Please stop embarassing us in front of the arcanum.

>>98377425
>Would everybody still hate Garou?
Well, they're still gonna be Garou and are gonna find a way to seeth about anything.

>>98377490
>>98377533
>Mindbreakingly retarded
Technically, the werebears WERE assholes, but it had almost entirely been the Garou overreacting to the slightest bit of prodding. Just like the continue to do over and over again, so they pretty much are forced to take up the jobs of every other type of Fera they forced into hiding. Which they also suck at doing, hence Pentex snowballing from a literal single oil company (smol) to a multi-industry giant. No doubt partially because Glass Walkers keep giving away their kinfolk after pumping and dumping them.

>>98377562
>This isn't constructive or even relevant to the conversation.
This is 4chan anon. That's the default.

>>98377374
neverborn are that big of a deal, as far as we can tell with non stated beings that are meant to be too powerful to be encountered although it should be mentioned that the one time they are compared Set is put on the same level as Grandma which would put antes a level above neverborn, but that's ToJ stuff

onceborn however are meant to be a entire league below the neverborn they are just the favored spectres given somewhat of a identity again because a eldritch being was amused by their service

>>98377477
>It's almost like they were meant to work together...
There's a reason queen ananasa throws that idea in the trash and just exterminates all shifters(ananasi included) in the scenario where she's freed. The fera aren' worth the effort of saving at this point.

>>98377562
Nta but everyone knows the Fera are kind of retarded (and that's why they're liked), there'd simply be no game if it was instead
>Fera: the Corruption
And all you do is manage other shifters and "corruption" when it pops up but it's a non-issue because there are 20 million of you and you literally have superpowers so it's basically just a vehicle for you to explore human drama like arranged marriage and power imbalance in relationships (aka, it's just fucking Vampire 1.5).

I don't disagree with anons who point out that it's part of the reason they don't like werewolf but I also think that their revisions for how Fera as a whole should be would basically loop around to a much more boring Masquerade clone or it changes into an even gayer and overdone concept like "the council of paranormal leaders" and "this country has a bunch of werewolves in it and this country has a bunch of vampires in it because they both unified and want to murder each other."

It's not an awful idea for a setting, but it doesn't fit with WoD. There's no room for le whacky conspiracies or the mixture of
>stupidest shit I've ever read
>wow this guy is a 500 IQ genius
both within the same page. There's probably a reason the only unified splat (Mummies) are limited to a microscopic amount of individuals at a time.

>>98377606
ancient beings in general seem to consider the fera to be too far gone

lucifer's big plan on how to deal with them is to also just not fight them just roll over for a moment and then when it seems like they are somewhat winning they will kill each other to a man

>>98377597
>onceborn however are meant to be a entire league below the neverborn
Sure, but "equal to a powerful normal wraith in catharsis" is a few rungs too low for what people imagine when they heard malphean hype.
There are I've seen players wraiths more powerful than Vidod.

>>98377247
>>98377266
Is there any way for them to just.. *go* there? I read that the Penumbra looks different for different people (and what kind of people they are), so I immediately started thinking of places that broach the spirit world and maybe pathways to walk sideways, sticking player characters into the penumbra for some shenanigans for a while.

>>98377580
>No doubt partially because Glass Walkers keep giving away their kinfolk after pumping and dumping them.
Treating people well goes a long way, shame someone didn't get the memo (or couldn't figure it out on their own)

>>98377629
iirc Vampires in general or some people are banned from the Umbra in general and there's a lot of spirits in there that probably hate them for existing, so while sending them into a micropocket like a derelict apartment building that had a *lot* of murders in it might be able to send them to a part of the umbra, your guys might get lynched by a mob of spirits.

>>98377629
>Is there any way for them to just.. *go* there?
The true black hand regularly go into the underworld, their home base is there.
The middle umbra is accessible by the tremere, but they generally avoid it like the plague.

>>98377575
You can use Spirit Manipulation as a frame work to create Sorceries

>>98377565
Youre welcome. I would dial in the Enchanting to whatever "power level" you think its worth. Also you should probably assign a cost, like a drop of blood smeared on the knob or something

>>98377646
>You can use Spirit Manipulation as a frame work to create Sorceries
Anon, sorcerers have the Path of Summoning, Bind, and Warding, spirit manipulation is hot garbage in comparison.

>>98377646
>Also you should probably assign a cost, like a drop of blood smeared on the knob or something
That'll make the enchantment more difficult acvording to the revised rules. Sorcerer Revised Path of Enchantment changed it so that adding limited uses, requiremnts to use, activation conditions, limitations, etc, is actually more difficult than making a generic "always on" enchantment.

>>98377542
Right. It should be fixed
>>98377562
If something is badly implemented then it needs to be fixed

>>98377694
>badly implemented
If Fera could cooperate then it wouldn't really be world of darkness.

>>98377694
>If something is badly implemented then it needs to be fixed
Anon, are you autistic?

We're making fun of the woofs for being flawed, not because the setting is broken. If the woofs weren't flawed, the game would be BORING.

>>98377662
Spirit Manipulation has hard rules for creating Fetishes, i didnt know if that could be 100% done by the book using S/W/B i just wanted to show one use case that could be used as a guide is all.

>>98377680
Fair enough. Im not super familiar with the edition differences & I mostly pick though Sorcerer to be honest

>>98377694
>>98377701
>>98377710
Woofs are the most fun splat in ExWod for a reason. Many reasons, really. Shapshifter envy regarding lunars, getting bumped down the totem pole by any exalt etc. Or being taught to behave via newspaper on snout prana.

>>98377730
>Spirit Manipulation has hard rules for creating Fetishes
There's a merit for sorcerers to do that in the dreamspeakers revised traditionbook.

>>98377760
>a merit
Vampires out here needing to learn a whole path for this while humans can just buy a merit. Vampirism fucking sucks.

Some lucky motherfucker got quints today.

>>98377773
Sorcerers aren't really human to be fair.

>>98377779
Let's see: 98377777

>>98377780
Anon, this isn't the hunternet. You can't gaslight us into believing the guys who got fundamentally altered by the messagers is more human that the guy who went to the magic school for muggles for a semester.

>>98377786
D'oh. Good job, me.

>>98377777

>>98377780
Anon, sorcerery is a numina. Numina are literally just skills any human can learn. People that become non-human lose access to numina.

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>>98376167
>>98376634
This probably has been done before given the Vampires = the rich analogue, but how long until we have a horror movie with them not being anything supernatural? Just straight up billionaires chewing on fetuses from a popcorn bucket. The modern boogeyman is not some knifeman in a goofy mask but the modeling company

>>98377646
>>98377662
>>98377680
>>98377730
>>98377760
Thanks for all these posts, Anons. I know little of oWoD. This is gonna spice up my campaign quite a bit. I especially like the Banes idea.

>>98377701
>>98377710
It can be both. You could fix the metaprinciples of the game & still have the woofs be mega retarded. Making Werewolves into "Shifters" who fucked up in the War if Rage/Impergium/whatever & lost their forms & gifts outside of Crinos doesnt change the status quo that much.

Hypothetically speaking. If a vampire tries to use dominate on a fomor with eyes of the wyrm, would he be able to issue a command before being frozen in horror?

>>98377760
Nice. He should use that then.

>>98377635
Isn’t it because, on top of getting zero support from the other tribes in the same way Children of Gaia and Bone Gnawers are, they are stuck with the least amount of caerns in the middle of the most Weaver/Wyrm tainted parts of the world?

Speaking of banetech, I heard there were cybernetics in the freak's legion book. They any good?

>>98377839
The point kind of is if the Garou are more or less holding the line at 12k then you add the rest of the Fera onto it and there's almost no reason Pentex should be as big as it is. It'd be unironically too hopeful especially since the Garou could basically just focus entirely on fighting instead of the things they suck at like kinfolk management and community building. I'm not against the idea, but it also makes Werewolves themselves less unique if everyone else can be a werewolf++

>>98377849
This is more about a secret society of militias communicating with each other to share knowledge about the supernatural. A 2-dot ritual is perfect, especially if you can learn it via Enchanting 1 + Ritual, makes it accessible, comparatively speaking. At least I think that's how it works.

>>98377839
Oh, this is bait. Fuck, I can't believe I fell for it for so long.

>>98377883
to be fair you can keep it at 12k shifters overall if that's what you care about. You could also simply increase the number of BSD. You could also power up Pentex. You could do so many things. That's not really the problem. But yeah it's sort of the point that Garou can not get along with other Fera, though you could certainly bring back the other Fera without fucking the setting.

Really, you could give Garou a lot of wins without it impacting the setting. To be honest the way it's portrayed in any sort of cross-splat interaction woofs literally do nothing. Like, nothing at all. They are complete jobbers. You could quadruple dog feats and you'd be left with 0. All they exist for is methuselah aurafarming by slaughtering them by the pack or otherwise roflstomping and humiliating them.
Aside from the Impergium and the War(s) of Rage, they also don't really do much negative nowadays, because that would need to be balanced out by them doing literally anything positive.

Thin-skinned woofers getting butthurt about people being rightfully critical of their game again...

>>98377931
>in any cross-splat interaction, woofs do nothing

That’s not true, they show up to get their asses kicked by the other splats
>Set and the Silent Striders
>Technocracy helped create Pentex
>the sidhe who turned a pack of get of fenris into his noble steeds

>>98377975
Maybe just ignore the faggots, then. You prompt them to yap about their shit game so much I'm convinced you're actually one of the furfag ERPers trying to force more discussion about that shitty game.

>>98377975
>>98377975
I'm sorry, but what manner of conceivable criticism could in any way be rightful of furry Captain Planet? Mankind's only flawless concept.

>>98377931
Woofs are kind of under the worf effect constantly because they're baseline very powerful

>>98377986
This is honestly the truth. In games other than Werewolf the Apocalypse, Garou exist to be victims of the Worf Effect. They're so big and tough and scary that they only exist to be beaten up people bigger and tougher and scarier than them. This is even true for the community surrounding the game, who love to use Garou as a way of demonstrating how this build or that character is so powerful. Even in their own game, the quickest way to show that a character means business is to have them wipe the floor with a pack of Garou.

The most notable canonical example of this is probably the Week of Nightmares, where a werewolf perspective is included exclusively to have the werewolf piss himself in terror at the sheer scale of the conflict, before he promptly gets annihilated by a spirit nuke.

Beating up Garou is the quickest way to look cool. The only exception to this rule is the Lupines of VtM, since quantum werewolves are supposed to be a genuine threat that keeps games focused on cities, but even they are often slaughtered wholesale as an example of how badass some vampires are.

>>98377975
>botches bait roll
Where is the butthurt?

>>98378068
It's not even bait at this point, it's just a ritualpost that happens whenever there's a conversation about Werewolf.

>>98378046
I remember there are characters who either professionally hunt or bait Garou into their lair to kill them (as Vampires) or mass enslave them and put them in a reservation so they can hunt them. Lupines in VtM aren't particularly intelligent creatures the same way Garou are but they still exist to be victims. I guess this sort of reflects the themes of the game, since Vampires really think everyone else is below them unless they're sipping elder blood directly from the source.

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Why do we hate werewolves again?

>>98376302
>>98376314
Safe Horny is sexual content that doesn't upset 30something Project Manager women.

>>98378076
I know, I'm actually surprised that it gets so many (You)s and I'm not even the poster. It's just a shame that it doesn't get posted every other splat as often. Could be some nice variation in it, like calling vampfags thinblooded or magefags small brained, though I'll have to workshop those.

>>98378084
They could be so much more effective if they stopped being autistic

>>98378096
nta but sometimes I jump on the proverbial landmine for shits and giggles. Though with the threads moving faster than usual, I have been trying to refrain from doing it until after the red star (bump limit) appears.

>>98378092
Being a 30-something project manager woman sounds like some karmic retribution for past sins
>Get offended when a woman objectively hotter than you is in a project (involuntary)
>Get offended when a woman who is your looks-match is in a project (involuntary) and people open lust for her
>Get offended when a woman who is uglier than you is in a project and no one openly lusts for her (involuntary)

Women be putting women down constantly, and you SHOULD include that in your games.

>>98378084
WtA was when WoD started to lean hard into the 90’s “fuck the Man(tm)” leftism, leaning hard into the environmentalist angle before Mage dove deeper into the broader gestalt. But unlike MtAs, which accidentally left enough room for cooler reinterpretations of the setting, the sanctimonious “mother earth is dying because you drive a car” aspect of woofs is too baked into the splat, which means that, unless you are one of said environmentalists, WtA is basically edgy Captain Planet and there’s not much actually cool stuff outside the Umbra

>>98376242
>Babadook
>Split (I guess technically not a spooky monster)
>It Follows
>Hereditary
>Possum
>Smile
>They Look Like People
These, plus tons of smaller horror movies that basically boil down trauma/mental sickness allegories.

>>98378084
They're just not very good games. Any of them, really.

>>98378121
We need more like you, good work soldier of the consensus. Maintain the agenda.

>>98378143
>VtM isn't "fuck the Man(tm)"
I guess it is more subtle than a direct message on how capitalism affects the environment or the death of culture under the iron thumb of the shareholder. It's just kind of a bit shocking to me how Dreaming is kind of prophetic in that regard, the 90s were relatively quite soulful and it wasn't until the mid-2000s that the managerial class started being the raging homosexuals(autumn ver) that they are currently.

>>98378183
The impoverishment of culture under capitalism was an old hat in the 90s. People have been complaining about this type of shit in detail since at least Baudrillard.

>>98378096
>It's just a shame that it doesn't get posted every other splat as often.
It's mostly just a way of poking fun at that one anon who has an autistic shitfit whenever people dare to discuss Werewolf.

>200 posts since burger hours ended
i wonder how evrope players handle their countries being mostly vampire dominated

>>98378183
It's way more sublte and kind of baits you into becoming The Man too, it's not considered a failstate. Vamp and Mage benefit from having a not-super-evil-but-mundane-evil sort of antagonists.

>>98378297
Refusing to run any WW game that's not DtD. Might just be me.

>>98378298
Yeah, WtA is by far the most black-and-white splat of the big 3 and having that being grounded on a specific political movement’s ideas leaves it wide open for derision

>>98378298
It's a game about hundreds of years old vampires ruling fledglings in a pyramid type system where the people that rage against this, the Anarchs are clearly the good guys
There is nothing subtle about it

>>98378383
Fair, but compare it to furry Captain Planet.

>>98378382
>grounded on a specific political movement’s ideas
The left doesn't have a copyright on "giving a shit about the environment"

>>98378423
There are different ways of "giving a shit about the environment", for example an educated person might suggest the use of nuclear energy instead of firebombing data centers.

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>>98378441
>for example an educated person might suggest the use of nuclear energy instead of firebombing data centers

>>98378423
and nobody talked about "the left". Environmentalism is the movement.

>>98378423
This is just a case of using only left and right to describe a lot of different political opinions. Technically you don't have to be a left winger to be a environmentalist but when people hear environmentalist or eco-terrorist, they'll 99% of the time think of a left winger. Atm at least, things can change with time, like what happened with anti-vaxxer

>>98378441
Go to the South and ask the people in Buttfuck, Texas who have never voted blue in their lives what they think should be done about the data centers in their backyards.

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>>98378441
>use of nuclear energy instead of firebombing data centers

>>98378479
these people are always exactly one step away from both bolshevism and nazism

>>98378084
Limited options for pop culture/horror movie inspired Werewolf touching on loss of self-control and identity instead of muh noble indigenous people fighting GigaNestle with eugenics.

>>98376150
>TQ
I think the monkey's paw of Obsession would work best in the WoD setting by making the nexus of the fucked up wishes something like a True Fae sleeping in the bottom of a well that people toss coins into or alternatively a Mage that's lost his mind and accrued a lot of power, who goes around answering people's prayers (he can hear them telepathically from a mile away, and uses Life, Matter, Time, or whatever else to materialize facsimiles of people's desires).

I think the Backrooms could be married to something like the endless mansion from Piranesi as a sort of hinterlands to reality that drives people insane, especially trifling mortals, as they attempt to utilize it. But I find that premise rather boring, found the movie rather boring. Would only be interesting briefly, and probably in a Hunter game or something SCP aligned where the goal is to contain or minimally explore the space before moving on to something else.

Invisible Man (2020) is an amazing application of a classic, and I think needs very few notes for incorporation into a WoD game. The trick would be making your Invisible Man a Slasher from a Conspiracy like TFV who is using tech to become totally imperceptible. The players are hunters or maybe even vampires/changelings/whatever that may think to start they are dealing with a ghost, to then wonder if it isn't an Elder vampire, werewolf, hobgoblin, whatever, and periodically should be made to feel even that they are just going insane. Third act is where it's revealed that what they're up against is actually just an extremely skilled murderer with lots of training, gear, and a bit of tech that pushed him over the edge. Recontextualizes all of the wondering and fear that led to that point, ideally makes them confront the idea that for all the horrors in the world of darkness, they were this frightened by a single mortal man.

>>98378484
>why cant we have both
sorry but the progenitors paradigm explicitly requires massive compute with the same principles for genomics and protein design

>>98378491
>pop culture/horror movie inspired Werewolf touching on loss of self-control and identity
We go through this every time, the only options for your true-to-folklore-and-pop-culture werewolves are a) delete Werewolf as its own game and just make werewolf another name for Gangrel vampires or b) make an avant-garde short-term one-on-one misery porn game all about wrestling with a werewolf wrestling with their inner beast for control.

>>98378454
>>98378484
imagine if luddites could voice their opinions during the Manhattan Project, "oh my god so much money wasted on fairy tales, you can't just create a pocket sun, that jew Oppenheimer is tricking us!"

>>98378519
Why can’t they take an inspiration from Dune and team up with the NWO to make not-mentats instead?

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>>98378084
Vampires are sexier.

>>98378491
the first change is an ego death of sorts like magic puberty when you realize that you're irrevocably different and are now burdened with rage
also theres frenzy and thrall of the wyrm too?
and we have hauglask now

>>98378547
Only difference between a vampire and a normal woman in bed is what part of the body is being sucked, though

>>98378544
technocrats have already built gene circuit and other molecular computational systems but they are concentration based rather than operating on discrete signals, so are a pain to scale up, reset and perform the accurate calculations needed

>>98377883
I think it worst still & might not be as hopeful as you might think. The Fera Shifters what little would remain would be just as fucked as the woofs if not more so. Woofs would be trying to cover all the bases without the proper gifts/forms, & the few Fera left alive would be isolationists happy to see the woofs die for their sins

>>98377893
Not everything you hate is bait

>>98378547
>Generation: 14th
Disgusting
>using gWoD iconography
Fake, lame, and gay.

>>98378441
>use of nuclear energy
>firebombing data centers
We need to do both. It's not like nuclear energy would magically solve all the issues of supermassive data centers, their construction, the environmental effects, or the surveillance disaster of LLMs in general.

Build nuclear power plants in the European world, deport or sterilize all non-Europeans, and use the savings to obliterate LLM data centers/mass surveillance nexi.

We don't have to live like this.

>>98378601
we need AI

>>98377163
>>98377026
As the resident Beast explainer, I'll give a more neutral answer to this stuff. >>98377043 is correct. As for whether you're the horror or the human, the Beast book implies both, but the Player's Guide leans towards the human.

>>98377061
It doesn't eat you if you don't keep it fed, it starts leaving on its own while you sleep to indiscriminately feed by entering people's dreams. This is also one of the main ways Heroes are created. Either way, people are getting hurt, but it's worse if you let it happen. the book also describes the horror effecting your mindset more the hungrier you are, but that isn't mechanically supported. While the monster does eat your soul, it's not as big a deal as it normally is in most forms of media. While I've seen DaveB disagree with this take, the cosmology does in fact devalue the soul, functionally reducing it to a spiritual organ. I'd say it's more accurate to say the horror replaces it. Argueably it actually merges with the soul and doesn't actually destroy it because mages can remove horrors like souls with just the Death Arcana.

>>98377182
Hunger for Punishment is one of the more constructive Hungers, and isn't as difficult to feed as you may think because there's an Atavism that lets you glean that sort of information with a glance. My recomendation if you want to cause the least harm is making friends with other monsters and feeding through Family Dinner. Beasts subtly mindfuck other monsters so they basically view them as friends. It isn't as overwhelming as that implies and mechanically just makes it quicker to persuade someone then it normally would through the social system, but still pretty skeezy. Beasts also instinctively consider them family. Family Dinner lets you feed vicariously through other monsters. Especially because you can feed through something like the Sacred Hunt or helping a mage solve a mystery.

>>98378547
>thinblood
>vampire
anon...

>>98378534
Usurping the power of Helios? Humans have gone too far (AGAIN!)

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>>98377642
>>98377643
Mage Chantries are realms located in the Umbra, is that not a practice still carried by the Tremere?

I was mostly thinking of having some fun with localized pocket realms and the like, or something akin to shit like the Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow, which is eerily close to how the Penumbra seems to be described (except the Penumbra looks different for each person).

I am sorry for the questions, I am profoundly retarded and the Umbra keeps confusing me because it reads like different dimensions entirely but also it's just one thing, but also it is a physical place you can just go, but also you astrally project there, but also it contains several different other places and one of those places also contain a bunch of completely different realms that are also different dimensions that you can go to.

>>98378624
Humanity's reign was ordained by Helios himself. It is why humans, under Helios and Falcon, held the original silver crown before gifting it to the garou.

>>98377243
>>98377306
It's always been a thing in Mage, but Geist 1e didn't touch on it. The only game line that has the balls to push back against Mage cosmology in 2e is Mummy.

>>98378606
You're not getting AI anytime soon, and if we ever do you will not like it. Reconsider suicide.

>>98378647
AI is already succesfully fighting in a war, it's here to stay

>>98378374
I feel sorry for european woof players, there's hardly any major caerns left. If their STs were lore accurate they would constantly be sending vamps after them.

>>98378658
Read the second part, ADHD-kun.

>>98378639
>Mage Chantries are realms located in the Umbra
No anon, that's horizon realms. Chantries can be umbral realms, correspondence pocket dimensions, areas made slightly out of sync with the rest of the timeline, etc. There's generally a type of chantry for every sphere.

Tremere generally go for the correspondence version, showing they never really got over being hermetics of doisep.

>>98378670
>if we ever do
You said "if" anon. You're not fooling anyone with your gaslighting, get better.

>>98378084
I just don't like furries
nothin personnel, kin

>>98378639
>Mage Chantries are realms located in the Umbra, is that not a practice still carried by the Tremere?
no because that's a practice that was adopted after the tremere became vampires back then even Doissetep was just a fancy mage tower in spain they only moved it to the umbra realm of forces in the 15th century to escape the Scourge (proto paradox). If we go with dark age mage the entire order of hermes at the time did not care much for the umbra as their paradigm assumed that magic only reached to the moon, but the backstory of some tremere (that been written before dark age mage mind you) contradict that

the tremere still have a mage chantry in vienna filled with blood bond tytalus mages that they mostly used to spy on the traditions and the sabbat tremere build part of a sabbat temple that reached into the underworld to study necromancy with some other members who followed the path of death and soul, but for the most part vampires don't fuck with the umbra there is little point for them they don't need anything from it and all their food is here

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>>98377212
isn't that the source of Lasombra powers?

>>98377482
>>98377499
>>98377522
Alright, so I'm going with the paces.
They are slowly getting things together, but they have no idea what they are dealing with or that they are being observed.
Game is going just fine so far, except for the one of the players being a touch too jokey.
Will be pleasant to break him down a bit.

You got any CTL stories?

>>98378715
>Be Lasombra
>Decide it would be a brilliant idea to use the hole at the bottom of reality as a power source by bringing it into reality occasionally
>Surely nothing could go wrong

>>98378715
nah don't worry about it potence buffed tentacles go brrrr

>>98377212
is the Umbra actually reall the life deep space? I don't get it.

>>98378770
it is in mage

it is not in werewolf

>>98378298
>becoming The Man too
That's the entire point of Vampire.