Bakeslave should be blonde.

>>98443904
Had a "company man" type Tremere who had a son in life & after the son came of age & he thought he was ready, the dad used a boon to ask his sire to embrace the son too. It ended up being a terrible idea as the son went borderline Anarch.

>>98443936
the faeries are gonna get him soon enough.

>>98443936
Bakeslave would make for an interesting test subject. I wonder if the SPD is willing to lend him for a while...

>>98443904
>Have you ever played a parent? How did it go?
The dingo ate my baby.

>>98443939
Yeah, my thought is they wanted to show "this is what happens to vampires who don't get a sort of identity reinforcement that comes with the clans & kindred society". I dont like it, i kind of wish they chose something else, but I understand it

>>98443941
Should've denied the request and had yim beaten for failing to leave his old life behind. Maybe some light sublight therapy.

I once wrote a story about a ragtag bunch of Changing Breeds.
Zero culture. Zero intelligence. Zero idea what they're doing.
Somehow more effective than their actual cultures because they're not infighting for pride

>>98444116
He had done really good work Pyramid, & he had left his life behind, the son though him dead & the mother was already dead. The father had kept an eye on his son for a while & the son seemed like a prime candidate for recruitment on his own. So he broached the subject with his sire & the sire agreed that the son was a good candidate & vould be groomed for Embrace as long as he was the one to do it & not the father. That way loyalty wouldnt be as much of an issue.

Still ended badly & was the father's only black mark in an otherwise good reputation

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V5 fans resorting to calling V6 racist and eugenicist in order to get it cancelled.

>>98442573
I'm sorry for cross-thread arguments, but why can't they just hire an actual artist again? 20th editions have great art.

>>98444231
>Vampire eugenicism
>Guy named Kadir (clearly not European)
What the fuck is this guy's problem?

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The art is an improvement, it's not like the old art was always good.

>>98444231
Assamite mad at Tremere Supremacy

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>>98444231
I like v6 now

>>98444249
Thats AI bro.

>>98444249
Remains to be seen what the rest of the art looks like. It's okay, but the old art had soul and sometimes the flaws made the setting stand out more

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>>98444231
genuinely how popular is v5 because as far as I'm aware most people dont even really associate WOD with anything other than VTMB
>eugenics
???? just play hunter and have the vampires die to humans??? or just play smarter than the strong vampires??? the blood thing is a literal curse passed down from god and all vampires are strengthened by it but also it compels them to be cruel and wicked. the entire point is youre newer to this and you havent lost touch with your humanity???? you're supposed to beat them because you haven't abandoned yourself for powers?
youre supposed to find ghouling gross and evil, youre supposed to find diablerie horrible and the fact youre a blood sucking parasite awful.
You aren't supposed to want to be like the elders.

>>98444231
>we've seen supremacists in the community
Y'know the funny thing?
Logically, WE'RE the ones they're talking about, right? We're the big scary 4chan full of /pol/tards exclusively and we use naughty words.

But we're not vampire supremacists. Not with any level of seriousness except "they're my favourite lol", which exists in the same camp as the actual literal devs making Tremere hate jokes. Cuz y'know, fuck the Tremere.

So who are these people? Who are the shadows they're jumping at?

>>98444267
There are plenty of white supremacists and hate groups here, though, which is what he's talking about. Evil people who use fictional narratives as an excuse to slide in their garbage and bile.

>>98444267
We just said supremacists you monkey. Weird nazi fucks get attracted to World of Darkness because of all the conspiracy theories and such that it uses. They tend to be Mage players, almost entirely. Every game line has this problem because nazis are just as autistic as the gays.

>>98444231
What the fuck is eugenicism? Are these people so retarded they have to add -ism to words so everyone know its 'le bad'?

>>98444273
But that's what I'm saying. There's plenty of racists here, but outside of 'hehe tziggers' nobody is applying those ideas TO vampires, least of because of Clans having blood succession that makes you how you are. They don't HAVE genetics, they have a curse that compels them, sometimes in ways at odds with who they were as a person.

So if we're not the vampire supremacists using WoD to push hate... who the fuck IS? I hate Indians for the same reasons everyone else does, I'm not using the Ravnos to try and explain why or convince people to do so.

>>98444266
>>98444267
I think what he's geting at here is the fact that some clans are inherently superior to others, like the Ventrue, this is bad because it implies the existence of a world where categories of individuals can be inherently superior, these people hate Essentialism in everything, if they catch a whiff of it they have a fit.

>>98444294
Nigga we're talking about people being racist cunts in the community and you're just proving the point. Also there is zero chance you play vampires, you're clearly some werewolf or shitty ass mage player.

>>98444300
Back in the day we'd just call that bad balance. Fucking humans being able to break any CC and taurons with a built in 1-second long stun.

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>>98444231
>V5 fans

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>>98444231
>Actually like the Hecata, and I agree the Giovanni glazing needs to stop
>The people on my side on this issue are like this
:(

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>>98444300
literally the most famous game has clan ventrue's rep be LaCroix, an arrogant pissant who demands authority and everyone to follow his whims while offering next to no support and tenuously grasping at his reign as it slips through his fingers. You also murder him in almost all the endings or you end up dying because you listened to his dumbass plan or tried doing what he did.
Like, Clan Ventrue does have power yeah, but like there's inherent power imbalances in the world we call life. World of Darkness is explicitly set in a parallel reality to our own where everything that happened happened but it sucked more and it was darker and edgier.

>>98444267
>But we're not vampire supremacists.
Of course not. Everyone knows that magi are the best.

>>98444231
lmao

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>>98444322
VTMB1 is a transphobic chud game, I'm glad we moved past it

>>98444345
thank god that game flopped and made people dive into reworking the masquerade setting.

>>98444260
Thanks, Tremere!

>>98444352
Making mages seem like bitches in every edition of the game. BloodMgk4lyfe

>>98444273
>>98444294
Imo 4chan racism and white supremacy come more from a place of reactionary autism and in-group preference rather than full unironic belief in "white man good, negro bad." Of course, the two meld together but I like to maintain that there's a difference in evidence based racism and the "I don't like them because someone told me not to like them so we don't like them" type of racists a lot of white supremacists fall into."

I'm not sure I'm putting in words correctly, but I like to think 4chan for the most part does intellectual racism as opposed to lower IQ hatred of outsiders instinct pandering. Maybe I have too much faith though.

At the very least, I sort of understand the idea that certain bloodlines are the "superior" bloodlines, but that's just a normal part of reality and the setting. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense the elite are going say they're part of a superior bloodline if they're styled after euro nobility, shocker.

>>98444385
no.

>>98444231
Reminder: Just because it's upsetting the V5 fans does not mean that V6 is good/your friend/you should support it.

People need to remember that the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Far greater problems have been created this way.

>>98444406
Eh, if we at least get more material that's closer to the original setting I'll take it and cannibalize it if I like it.

>>98442239
Absolutely. One of my favorite Metis Deformities, actually.

>Unnaturally Colored Hide
>Your fur (and ALL body hair in Homid and Glabro shape) is an unnatural color, like green, blue, pink, or purple. Other Garou will find your appearance ridiculous, even laughable, and you take a +2 difficulty on any social interaction with other Garou who have seen you in Crinos, Hispo, or Lupus shape
from W20 Changing Ways

>>98444231
>V5 fans
All none of them?

>>98444406
True.
V6 is probably going to be shit, but at least we can have some fun watching V5tards suffer.

>>98444465
They're currently frenzying in the official Discord, actually. The usual Paradox defence force is rioting, with almost no one praising any aspect of V6.

>>98444473
Being there seems like it'd be an exercise in restraint at all times if people like Noordin post and have people agreeing with them. It's a level of retardation that I can't help but bite at.

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>>98444294
>They don't HAVE genetics
>Curses induce mental and physical changes
Sound pretty analog to genetics or epigenetics, do the terms matter more than the sum?

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>>98444473
>official Discord
kek

If Curseborne wasn't so bland (even when compared to the Chronicles of Darkness), I'd tell people to support that instead of the fifth and sixth editions.

>>98444231
People like this could never produce a coherent, gritty and interesting setting, and neither could one by paying attention to such voices. Poison of the highest order to any creative output, like a catholic preacher ranting about devilry.
Only the safest Pegi E for Everybody Vampires with the most lukewarm corporate big tenderqueer politics conceivable, all the while soliloquizing about the monster inside. The epitome of "Wow I might be a man-eating politicking parasitical monster, but at least I am not a fascist!"

Duskborn just sounds like a lamer Blade from Blade.

>>98444231
Does he forget he's talking about a game? One about being monsters too.

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>>98444544
"In today's gospel, the Lord tells us how we should live if we wish to attain the splendor of Heaven…or something like that. Jesus this, Moses that, Abraham hit me with a wiffle ball bat!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZAgNh5X7w

>>98444385
>but I like to think 4chan for the most part does intellectual racism
Haha, you made my day.

What does medicine actually do mechanically? I know there are supernatural powers that use medicine to give an actual affect, but I kinda realize that there isn't actually point to have it practically as a player? Are some obvious rules i'm missing or something?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCdbEQvMzzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXfK8q55cMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnZEtbBo8K8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmulCWn8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWTFigomoc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWOm5_i_k0M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oev9ZbsFIeQ

>>98444351
Yeah, super rework we're getting with V6

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Then came the tares among the wheat. In that moment, spirit became matter, flesh became a vessel, self-will and self-seeking begat a lusting after sin and impurity.
And man, created to be king over nature, became its slave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I82w7fHFcrc

Working on Einherjar as a European mummy variant. Not sure what im gonna call the different Dynasties yet. I have Harii but thats just one name.

Im giving them two new Seidr (Hekau)
One is gonna be battle magic, not sure what to name it yet.
The other is going to be Feasting. Feasting is about eating food & the ritual of it will create magic effects. Things like curing derangements, erasing memories, gaining social benefits, even special abilities from eating prepared food like a dragonbreath spell triggered by feasting a prepared piece of jerky.

Opinions?

>>98444848
Aren't there already European mummies?

>>98444695
Eh, we might at least get better fan and side projects given how restrictive v5 is for storytelling.

>>98444231
I have to say though, it is highly fucking amusing to see all the V5 defenders and shills to be revealed to by hypocrites.
They were calling us old fans all sorts of names, banning our complaints, making fun of our points and just being unsufurable about it "Oh you have the old books, no one is taking them away".

Well fuckface, "You have your V5 Books, no one is taking them away", "Get on with the times, grognard"

>>98444287
so trve the chuditions and chudocracy need to come together and send 9 billion more dollars to iseael to fight the nazi allegations

>What if two Garou fucked

>>98444860
Not really. There are Greek ones, & asian ones, & meso ones but thats it. Plus einherjar are cool. These guys are the army of some female mages (the Valkyries) who live, die, make merry in Valhalla, & then reborn to fight again!

Who wants to tell >>98444969 about metis?

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>>98444969
It's only okay if it's gay.

There's a sorcery path to make proto-Bane Mummies, reverse engineered by studying the original ones. They're like normal Bane Mummies but shittier due to lacking the sheer power of a god. Suppose somebody went around trading it to random wizards, will this cause anything interesting to happen, or do shitty Mummies only rank on the scale of weird pet?

>>98445067
If metis garou are usually sterile then you could fuck a metis and be fine...
>metis gets pregnant
The end is high!

>>98444969
You get a metis like my guy, MacGregair of the Green Hair

>>98445099
You'd get like an infinite renown loss for shacking it up with a Metis, Garou society does not look kindly on those guys.

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>Play V6 test at Gencon
>ST there confirms that, per V6, the Beast is a tangible thing that can manifest physically
>it manifests even to others with certain as-yet unincluded Disciplines
>if you lose it, because it's a real physical thing, you go catatonic/torpor
>this is why Diablerie is skin-to-skin now
>this is why it has a persona per clan
>They turned the Beast into a fucking Stand
Make it stop. Not only do they not care about feedback enough to change it, they're going to make it worse.

>>98445131
It's only a crime if you get caught.

>>98445149
Don't care, the beast still isn't a real thing.

>>98445149
we've got access to the alpha test retard, no need to make shit up

>>98445149
Imagine being a millenia old vampire and having your Beast yoinked by a changeling.

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>>98445149
Eh, the Beast was always a bit plug and play

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>>98445149

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>>98444249
>>98444263
The chain link looks weird, but it seems consistent with the style of the in-house artist who's known to have made the v6 logo

>>98445149
The Beast as a STANDO should absolutely be Malkavian shit entirely, but it's not an awful idea.

The V6 playtest made me decide I'll read V20 books instead (I already read Clanbooks and others from Revised), and then VTR's.

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>>98444406
i've stopped caring about WoD as a franchise years ago. i'd rather dance with the devil then cry over a decade old corpse.

>>98445206
Wise decision.
Do consider reading The Players Guide to the Low Clans and the one for the High Clans. It's Dark ages.

>>98445199
Yeah it's AI/AI assisted.

>>98443724
>Which makes the Tal'mahe'ra Bloodline's claim incredibly dubious
Didn't he only get extra freaky after getting revived and raised by Yorak and Kupala?

>>98445199
is this meant to be OSR-style artwork?

>>98445223
Ok but when I get to VTR do I just read the 2nd edition books or do I have to read the 1st edition too? My focus is understanding the lore.

>>98445149
>a werewolf can find the Beas in the Penumbra
I'll kick your Beast in the dick
Stick it in a fetish

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>>98443904
mfw i have to run another combat encounter in VTM V20.

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>>98445230
If it's AI they're violating TOS by not reporting it

>>98445282
They'll have the AI make it & then they draw over it/trace it or whatever to clean it up. The end product isnt AI so they can get away with it

>>98444690
>crunchy heavy, but it's not simulationist
>just unwieldy esoteric mechanics and bookkeeping

>>98445149
magefags, I am feeling something ominous..

>>98445149
so the beast is confirmed a vampires avatar now?

>>98445199
I don't see it. What time period and place is this supposed to be anyways?

I'm not current on V5 lore,what are the Hecata?

>>98445400
they combined all the necromancy clans into one clan.

>>98445149
>An english Tzimisce gallivanting around the middle east having learned Temporis from an itinerant trujah he met once
ZA WARDUO!
>

>>98445171
>changeling
weak to banal

>>98445419
the vampire himself would be banal but not his beast.

>>98445172
How did this work with Irad casting his beast out into the eldest

>>98445261
>Ok but when I get to VTR do I just read the 2nd edition books or do I have to read the 1st edition too? My focus is understanding the lore.
Best to read from both and make what you want piecemeal.

>>98445407
Were there any Cappadocians who escaped Final Death long enough to give the Hecata their blessings?

>>98445425
Vampires aren't actually banal. The vampire NPCs actually have a lower average listed banality than humans.

>>98445446
Yes, but they are with the Tremere now.

>>98445477
Makes sense, in order to keep going with your eternal existence instead of going into torpor or cuffing yourself to the nearest park bench and waiting for the sunrise, you've got to believe in SOMETHING.

>>98445477
vampire elders are specifically said to be banal because they are boring as fucking doing the same routine every night and never leaving their havens.

>>98445446
Yes albeit majority of them debate on abandoning the Hecata for the Camarilla or staying close to stick the knife into the giovanni's back.

>>98445477
banality is very weird and inconsistent. Sometimes it's like "vampires are creatures of stasis and thus are all metaphysically banal" othertimes it's like "a malkavian is crazy, a toreador is artistic, they are not banal at all".

>>98445584
The answer is that the right hand isn't talking to the left. Drinking Vampire blood hits you hard with Banality, but they also produce oodles of Glamour that makes them fun and spicy friends.

>>98445505
We're taking good care of them

>>98444267
I think you're misunderstanding him. He seems to be saying that, if the game mechanically creates a real hierarchy that is blood/clan-based, it will reinforce ideology in the real world that revolves around race-based hierarchies.
To me, this is extremely laughable because the game does need to have mechanically reinforced hierarchies around shit like this in order for it to be used to tell compelling stories about why that shit is bad and wrong. This is a horror game. It's like saying this game promotes harm by having vampires compel people to do their bidding with Disciplines, form manipulative codependent relationships with Vinculum, and KILL PEOPLE! VIOLENTLY! I mean ffs the vampiric embrace is quite readily interpreted as a metaphor for sexual assault. So essentialist hierarchal structures? They are just one more fucked up thing about being a vampire, which is supposed to be scary.
Does Get Out promote harvesting organs from black people?

The only actually 'harmful' (and my god, it is just a fucking game and one meant for adults that ought to be able to think critically) thing they did in my mind was nWoD having immoral acts induce mental illness instead of traumatic/fucked up *experiences*. Some fucked things you do should damage your mind, sure, but not like... Any. That system really did reinforce the idea that being mentally ill and being evil are inextricable. They fixed this pretty quick with the Danse Macabre book introducing Banes instead of Derangements. But I'm a therapist so I'm biased on this. I have definitely met people that are mentally ill because of their evil disposition, and people whose mental illness induced them to do evil things (which they sometimes regretted and repented for for the rest of their lives, truly). But the most evil people I have ever known were actually quite mentally sound. They chose to do fucked up stuff of their own volition, knowing the gravity of their choices and the consequences.

>>98445337
Those two don't pair well together I think. Not entirely sure why Paradox is obsessed with reinventing the wheel

>>98444430
I also like the glowing eyes one in the same book. Though I advise wearing sunglasses (at night)

>>98445590
>Drinking Vampire blood hits you hard with Banality, but they also produce oodles of Glamour
Where are the rules for this? The prodigals section of the changeling books didn't seem to have rules for fairy ghouls.

>>98445747
Vampire Storyteller's Handbook page 166
Changelings can be ghouls but gain two permanent Banality for as long as they have kindred vitae in their system. Best I could find.

>>98444860
>>98444993
I could have sworn that there were rules for European peat-bog mummies...

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Wu T'ian Clan ain't nothin' to fuck with!
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Wu_T%27ian

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>>98445149
And in the master's chambers, they gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the Beast

>In the Ten Thousand Hells of Eastern legend, he found the solution. Yama Queen Tou Mu was barely a shadow of Kali, but she was divine. He approached her, offering to synthesize his Awakened power with her own, but he kept his own council. At the culmination of the tantric sex between the archmage and the goddess, Voormas released the souls bound to her. His necromantic skills were insurmountable; the stolen souls that made her a match for the archmage dispersed. Perverting the spiritual union between Shiva and Shakti, Voormas devoured her remaining essence. He then returned to the Apex of History with the stolen spirit of a goddess, and as his divinity was confirmed, he claimed his prize.

What did I saw about knowing to avoid magefags? This is the sort of shit you will deal with it, being murdered in a tantric sex ritual so your new trans lover can attempt to destroy the concept of death because he is weird as fuck

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>>98445149

Most of that has been in lore for ages. Skin-to-Skin diablerie is stupid though.

Wraith implies that Vampires are failed form of Risen, whereas WTA claims the Beast is a piece of Beast of War latched onto the soul like a parasite.

Road of Humanity page 70-71

>>98446086
Voormas also memetically poisoned the concept of necromancy btw. He's why people that use it want to tear the shroud and go evil and insane

>>98445273
This is why the sixth edition is light on combat rules, but heavy on social rules.

>>98445380
Mages can now swap Avatars!

>>98446094
Some shit's genuinely retarded. It's okay to ignore fringe lore that only serves to cheapen the setting.

>>98445629
>Does Get Out promote harvesting organs from black people?
If it were a game told from the perspective of the organ harvesters, yes.

When people talk about changeling here, which version is generally prefered? I've never got into it.

>>98446124
I'm always impressed by the ability of you newfags to ask the most incendiary questions possible.

>>98446124
Given that most people here prefer the Old World of Darkness, it is assumed that you'll be discussing Changeling: the Dreaming. But most people agree that Changeling: the Lost is better. Just clarify which one you mean and you're sure to get discussions.

>>98446135
People never seen to mention so I assume it's like Mage where the Ascencion is the default.

>>98446124
>Average changeling when they're running low on glamour

>>98446137
I think it's better because it feels more unique and in-line with older fairy tales.

So, how are your playtests of the new version going? Some fun games? Is something working?

>>98446124
Dreaming is way better. 20th Anniversary edition.

>>98446038
Do the south and central Americans get their own mummies too?

Pretty cool

>>98446163
Why did we have to wait twenty years to get a playable version of Changeling: the Dreaming though?

>>98446170
Why are people trying to recommend Trauma Simulator over an actual game? It's a mystery.

>>98446166
NTA, but they do.

>>98446166
Yes.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Teomallki
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Capacocha

>>98446178
which one is which?

>>98446140
I always mention which in my posts. In any case, it's a genuine split. With some bad blood. See, Dreaming used to be the butt of the joke here way back when and Lost was one of the more popular games, but most of the CtL (and non-Vigil CofD players in general) left over time, and now there's more of a mix, as well as a prolific shitposter with an axe to grind against Lost.

So, it's a contentious subject to say the least.

>>98446189
>Human trafficking and abstract torture trauma sim
Lost
>Domestic abuse trauma sim
Dreaming

>>98443831
You're a retard, because you're equating getting (often forcibly) recruited into a clan to be the same thing as actually being raised from birth. As a Swede I can tell you that there's low-key feuds between villages and municipalities throughout my country and all of Europe that are older than your country.

>>98446124
>>98446137
>>98446163
I'll be honest, I still have no fucking clue how CtD is actually meant to be played or even what brings the PCs together or how to make sense of it, having lazily flipped through C20 a few times.

Although to be fair, I also have had very little interest in it.

>>98444231
>the harm it used to cause
Imagine actually thinking that any roleplaying game at any point caused actual harm.
>Vampire always had an eugenicism[sic!] problem
What on Earth a-
>pronouns in name
Nevermind, that explains it. This person is genuinely mentally ill. Just like every other corporate cocksucker that bought into gWoD as a setting.

>>98445396
that's from the recent dnd dark age book so it's meant to be 1230

>>98444242
>What the fuck is this guy's problem?
Inbreeding, presumably. Also, there's a non-zero chance that the name is genuine and he's just a neo-colonial invader with severe identity issues from being a minority in a non-goat-fucker nation. People really do belong with their own people, surrounded by a culture in tune with their biology, deficient or not.

>>98444249
Actual fucking slop.

>>98446221
That's just Beast the Primordial

>>98446149
>So, how are your playtests of the new version going? Some fun games? Is something working?
i can't say yet. we are going to try next weekend with a oneshot made by another player of the group

my group was planning to run a oneshot this weekend but one of our players asked to move it because he had a shit week and didn't wanted to deal with it right now so i ran our usual game instead

>>98446254
>I'll be honest, I still have no fucking clue how CtD is actually meant to be played or even what brings the PCs together or how to make sense of it, having lazily flipped through C20 a few times.
I'm taking a look and the concept is cool, but I have too much of a mage mind for it I think, I want to interact with interesting ways and control the World, not hide from it in a fantasy shell.

The Fifth and Sixth Editions can only be redeemed if they manage to produce an original line like how the Chronicles produced Promethean: the Created.

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>>98445396
>What time period and place is this supposed to be
That is obviously 1990's Romania.

>>98445149
Imagine that there are people that still insist that V5/V6 is the same setting as the old games just because Paradox says so and they have a legal document saying that they own a part of culture.
>Diablerie is skin-to-skin now
What does this even mean?

>>98444544
The funniest thing is that their standards are constantly shifting, so the purity spiral must be constantly accelerating in order to compensate for the fear of being criticized for a perceived fault in ([CURRENT YEAR]+X) until they are effectively - often even literally - apologizing in advance. It really does many everything lame and gay and it is so fucking tiresome.

So I'm finishing up a Mage game for my usual group, next up I'm planning on running Werewolf since my players were interested in giving it a try. While thinking about plot hooks and locations for the new campaign, the thought of Alaska came up. It sounds like a great place for werewolves; Lots of wide open wilderness, massive wolf population, prominent oil and mining operations that could make for Pentex antagonists. I'm a little worried about the small population making things feel a little "small potatoes", but then again, protecting the Alaskan wilderness from pollution is probably as high a priority for the Garou as taking back or cleansing more contested areas.

Does WoD have any canonical lore on Alaska, particularly on Anchorage? Otherwise, I'd appreciate hearing some plot hook ideas for an Alaskan Werewolf game; I've got plenty of ideas already, but the more the merrier.

>>98446343
I think there is a redeeming path forward, but it is also one that would be antithetical for them to take, because they lack both the courage and fortitude to do so, and it would still require them to not immediately write new garbage to replace old garbage, and the entire company - like countless "modern writers" - seem to be convinced that they can "do better" and also consider "all art is political!" and thus have an impetuous to "teach the right message" and not be "problematic".

It's just not going to happen.

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How do people feel, knowing this how Christ will be perceived by the World of Darkness community for the foreseeable future?

>>98446388
There is a section on Alaska in Caerns Places of Power. Page 77

>>98446411
Hear, hear!

>>98446417
Why?

>>98446444
Tourists who get all of their knowledge from Hunter: the Parenting.

>>98446417
to be fair profaned christ goes incredibly fucking hard. This is some 40k levels of "it's just fucking cool, ok?"

>>98446388
>I'm a little worried about the small population
The number of people to be interacted with is always subject to fiat, if you think about it. What does 10 million offer that you can't get with 10 000, when it comes down to it? Vampires have the issue of needing to feed and needing to hide, but for normies and Werewolves and kinfolk and such it really doesn't matter.
>plot hook ideas for an Alaskan Werewolf game
What era are we talking, and are you going for some particular vibes? But yeah, I'm thinking pipeline construction obviously, offshore rigging for sea shenanigans, Pentex dumping nuclear waste into the mystery flesh hole in the middle of nowhere, and maybe something about a plane crashing out in the wilderness, but not being officially reported anywhere, for some reason.

>>98446417
The whole point of this is to show that their faith was corrupted.
If it was true, it wouldn't be.

>>98446417
What the fuck are you talking about, and why would I care about bad art of a kike on a stick?

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>>98444231
*ahem*
Excuse me, everyone! I have something to say.
FUCK THOSE SAMEDI NIGGERS
FUCK THOSE HARBINGER OF SKULLS FAGGOTS
FUCK THOSE NAGARAJA SHITSHITTERS
FUCK THOSE CAPPADOCIAN CUNTS
AND FUCK CAPPADOCIUS!
That is all.

>>98446417
Why is there (admittedly metal as fuck) art of a fomori posing with Christ's mortal remains?

>>98446481
>FUCK THOSE CAPPADOCIAN CUNTS
Don't mind if I do...

>>98446497
>QRD
Hunter the parenting. Manifestation of True Faith by Leopoldites as seen by a Scandinavian Viking Silent Strider Garou. May be caused by Wyrm Drugs the Leopoldites took, or their corrupted faith. Probably a manifestation of "The Patriarch" Aspect of Abrahamic Faith. See the prophecy (In Hunter: The Parenting) "The Patriarch, in mastering Luna, ends hamstrung. He will wish death upon his flesh, but no mercy shall be given, for none he hath gave.."

>>98445747
>>98446010
Doing a little more digging. Ghouls Fatal Attraction says changelings suffer 1 banality everytime they ingest vitae along with a line that extended ghouldom tends to lead to permanent bedlam. Still cant find anything on getting glamour from vitae but Im probably not looking in the right book.

>>98446424
Oh there is? I'll take a look then, see what it says.

>>98446466
>The number of people to be interacted with is always subject to fia
That's fair, yeah.

As for what era we're talking, modern nights. I usually just use the current year or loosely current year for modern WoD games. Pipeline was an easy one I jumped to immediately, I hadn't thought about offshore rigging though. Nuclear dump site and mysterious plane crash are also good potential hooks, thanks anon!

>>98446411
>"all art is political!"
This is true though. I wish that people would stop pretending that they are immune to propaganda.

>>98444322
perhaps i'm retarded but LaCroix isn't a bad ventrue right? I mean the main thing he seem to be guilty of is literally trying to grasp at power so quickly to the point he makes a poor call. Or is this man retarded on all levels? Sure he doesn't look as competent as compared to the Tremere dude aura farming in the game but LaCroix never struck me as retarded.

>>98446417
To be fair, the image goes incredibly hard.
>>98446497
Episode 6 at least delivered on a visual front, we can say that much.

>>98446450
Is that worth watching, anyway?

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>>98445273
Just use the quick combat book from STV. Solves everything in a single roll instead of 4. Doesn't feel neither too quick nor too sluggish once you get used to calling the rolls.

>>98446602
LaCroix is both in a bad situtation as he is send to reclaim a city for the camarilla without the necessary support from said sect while also being to young for the title in general but that does not excuse him fomr showing a lot of what the books call out as the ventrue's worst habbit that being sending minions on suicide missions to get rid of them and over confidance in deals with other supernaturals

so he is not a great ventrue, but i would argue it's not totally his fault as it's most likely that someone weaponized the peter principle against him he himself complains about how he has too much shit going on in comparision to the primogen and how everyone is breathing down his neck on anything that happens not just in the city but the entire region

compared to -everyone- in bloodline 2 however he is a fucking genius and the second coming of ventru himself

>>98446602
I take you never played it? Because the protagonist's arc alone should be enough to answer your question.

>>98446481
>somehow uncle augie retrurned

>>98446670
great work! now turn that into a 160 chapter webnovel so we can base a manwha, anime and a stageplay on it

>>98446670
>>98446673
Real Toreador hours.

>>98446670
But I'm a guy(male), silly!

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>>98446602
his major issue is he takes the bait of the coffin on face value just like jack does and is so dead set on devouring him he loses sight of everything valuable.
His minor issues is he has no control over the situation, does nothing to endear himself to the people who might work with him Strauss, Gary, and Jeanette. He sells out everyone to work with fucking Ming Xiao which is a major no no given working with the kuei jin is worse than the fucking anarchs yet still fucks over nines rather than realizing that he should pit nines against her and the sabbat and then breaks the treaty he had with her anyway.
plus he fucks you over repeatedly as the protagonist expecting you to do the impossible and having the gall to ask for more, finally he calls a blood hunt on you to summon every vampire in california to kill you once you've outlived your usefulness
he dies on his knees like a bitch snivelling to give him the coffin as soon as his sheriff dies.. FUCK LACROIX.

>>98446705
*just like jack KNEW
lol oopsie.

>>98446705
>>98446711
Unrelated, but something I realized recently. Jack is the one who killed all the people on the ship, when he replaced the mummy with bombs.

>>98446724
he used to be a pirate

>>98446724
it's one of the things you can call him out on as malkavian and if you do he says that he would kill you if he thought that you yourself understood what you just said

jack is not your friend

>>98446734
>"The man on the couch. The lone wolf. All others... tread carefully."

>>98446627
The first arc is actually an amazing introduction to Hunter's vibe, 2nd arc is kind of a general setting exploration but it's not as consistent. Great visuals and audio design, animation is something of an acquired taste. I'd recommend it. Just be aware it's a fan project so it's going to deviate somewhat with homebrew

>>98446724
>>98446734
>>98446743
>Bloodlines 2 got mogged by a 20 year old game
It’s even funny. It’s just sad.

>>98446705
LaCroix's biggest problem is being complacent and myopic yeah

>>98446411
How would you feel if you hadn't had breakfast this morning?

>>98446417
Look as much as I will dog the writing of HtP since episode 5, the artists knocked it out of the park. Even if I don't like the weird blue WW1 knight aesthetic they've given the leopoldites.

>>98446481
Imagine being the worst necromancy bloodline, despite also being the first one the writers came up with. Imagine getting overshadowed by your backstory predecessors.

>>98446781
have they not (before now in v6) also been the only necromancy bloodline without the ability to see ghosts (auspex)?

>>98446371
>Diablerie is skin-to-skin now
>What does this even mean?
Exactly what it says on the tin
V6 playtest says diablerie requires 10 minutes of skin to skin contact but presents the diablerist drinking all of the victim's vitae as optional

>>98446815
no the victim still need to have only have 1 or less vitae in the system that's what makes the skin contact diablerie even more stupid because you can not drink blood through skin contact in any other scenario

>To diablerize a victim, all the following must be true:
>• You must be a Duskborn or a vampire.
>• The victim must be a Duskborn or vampire.
>• The victim must be immobilized, paralyzed, or in torpor.
>• The victim must have no more than 1 Vitae, which you consume as part of the process
>The Act. Once you have a suitable victim, you must spend at least 10 minutes consuming its soul. This is a supernatural act, and it requires some form of physical contact between you and the victim. Any skin-to-skin contact will do, though many vampires feel most comfortable biting the victim.

>Feeding is the act of drinking blood from a source, such as an animal, a blood bag, a human, or a vampire. It is typically a slow, gradual process, each gulp of blood timed to the beating of the victim’s heart.

>>98446832
so i could hold hands with a torpid guy and somehow drain his heartblood, but if he has two or more blood points i first need to drink them normally and then i can either continue drinking or stop and go for the hand holding? am i reading this right? what? what's the point?

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Wraith: the Oblivion in the World of Radiance.

Have you played V5, W5, or H5?
How did you feel about being able to take Willpower damage?
Did you ever spend Willpower and take WP damage in the same scene?

>>98446857
I think the point is that your mouth is free, and you can deliver a villainous monolog while diablerizing. Seriously, I think that's it.

>>98446807
What are you talking about? There are at least two paths of necromancy that let you see ghosts.

>they got rid of the Hecata
one of the few good changes v5 made and that's what they abandon? what a fucking joke

>>98446877
>chatgpt write me a 10 minute monolog i can say while diablerizing my grand sire and make it snappy

>>98445067
Sauce me up boy

>>98446705
mate he's not expecting you to do the impossible he was expecting for you to DIE

>>98446885
>necromancy that let you see ghosts.
Are you telling me there's an RPG necromancy school that does actual classical necromancy?

>>98446902
i love how he breaks down laughing and calls you a wonderkind when you solo the sabbat and even shit talks the sherrif for not managing to do what you a fledgeling did in a single night

and he still does not take the hint that he should stop trying to kill you and just keep you around

>>98446497
the cross is Jesus while the part that looks like Jesus is the wyrm wearing his skin

it's supposed to represent how the wyrm has corrupted the faith of the leopoldites. Jesus preaches forgiveness, mercy, and kindness yet the only thing they do is kill, torture, and they never show mercy.

>>98446921
Pretty much.
Stig literally says
>What did they do to you?

>re-read the werewolf revised tribebooks cause why not
>mfw the Bone Gnawers alpha is a metis
The fuck? They really let Métis become aplha of the pack? No wonder the Gnawers are look down upon man

>>98446939
there are several the glass walker who runs the majority of the nations entire egypt operations is also assumed to be a metis because she has no claws

if i remember corrections she isn't one but the reason she has no claws is implied to be worse so she just let's people assume she is a metis instead

>>98446832
>>98446857
The point is that Helena can now literally suck your soul out of your dick

Or you can diablerize someone like the wretched Dungeater from Elden Ring

>>98445261
Both is ideal. 2e doesn't have many "official" splatbooks, but the STVContent is closest to official and makes a lot of references and and expansions to stuff from 1e. You could run a game of 2e using strictly 1e lore and nobody would say anything really (aside from certain mechanics being absent like predators taint and fog of ages).

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>>98446815
>>98446832
Christ, and there's STILL people pretending that the setting of V5/V6 is the same as V2/VR/V20. Having to drink all the blood and then the pure Vitae and then keep drinking into the fucking soul was always a central aspect of diablerie.

But in the paracuck setting you just need to beat the shit out of someone and give them a handjob.
>"feels most comfortable biting the victim"
So much for the most intense euphoria ever experienced, tempting to the point where it may be impossible to stop once initiated,. making the Beast roar in pleasure.

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>>98446781
>Imagine getting overshadowed by your backstory predecessors.
This is a common motif in media, and objectively true for practically all the Clans, in one way or another.

I think the funniest fucking thing about the Giovanni is that while they have access to Necromancy blood magic, which they jealously guard, nothing actually prevents anyone else from learning it.

Meanwhile, the Samedi actually has a death-based Discipline, Thanatosis, essentially carrying powers of Necromancy in the blood, even if they have lost easy access to necromantic teachings. To me it just reinforces the idea that the Samedi are the chosen successors of Cappadocius while Giovanni was spurned.

> In far corners of the room were shadows of uncanny shape. More than once as I thought, the multitudinous presence of the dead and the past took such hold on me that I caught myself looking round fearfully as though some strange personality or influence was present.
Has the World of Darkness always been this pretentious?

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>>98446815

The fuck? 10 minutes of skin to skin contact? We sucking heartblood or sucking titties up in here?

>>98447064
the Samedi had both before v20 in victorian age vampire they had Necromancy, Obfuscate, Thanatosis making them the only clan that hat both and they been so powerful that the giovanni had to treat with them

and mind you this was before all the other death related disciplines got turned into necromancy so the only ones who had necromancy had been the giovanni and samedi

>>98444273
>>98444287
You actually really should kill yourself. Everyone and the world would be better off, and you'd feel infinitely better from not having to interact with this horrific world of facts.

>>98445629
>It's like saying this game promotes harm by
Some of these people will unquestionably argue that, yes.
>Does Get Out promote harvesting organs from black people?
If you switched around some of the casting, they would absolutely argue that it does.
>the idea that being mentally ill and being evil are inextricable.
The more I see mental illness paraded, the more and more I have started to become convinced that this is actually true, and I used to say that the only true evil was ignorance. Today I just truly wish that was true.

>>98444557
>Does he forget he's talking about a game?
They well and truly cannot and do not differentiate. It is not that they forget it. It's that they are cognitively indistinguishable from the philosemitic moralists of the 1980's Satanic Panic, just with an ideological label-swap.

>>98445337
I think it's because they think that "crunchy" appeals to a certain player demographic, without understanding that the crunch was never for the purpose of the crunch itself.

>>98445710
>Not entirely sure why Paradox is obsessed with reinventing the wheel.
It is a crisis in almost the entire western creative field. I personally think it is because a lot of the modern developers/writers have a background as primarily tourists, while also being intensely arrogant in regards to those that came before, so they are convinced that they can "do it better", but they also do not understand why things were as they were either, so they think they can just take things out and put new things in; then the structure collapses and instead of going back they reinvent the wheel but worse.

>>98447096
Yeah, the V20 of taking Necromancy away from the Samedi doesn't really make much sense, considering that the Samedi should have learned Necromancy generationally, even if their access to the libraries have been cut off. At the same time, I have always maintained that blood magics should not "count as" disciplines to begin with, and that access should be narratively gated, even if that means that some clans are "better". At best, "Blood Magic" should be a singular Discipline that determines how good you are at doing the channeling necessary to perform blood magic related to any blood magic path that you learn.

>>98447072
>Nigga
Watch it or the Janny will get mad and angry and maybe bleed from their axe wound on you.

>>98447064
>To me it just reinforces the idea that the Samedi are the chosen successors of Cappadocius while Giovanni was spurned.
i don't think the giovanni really care about Cappadocius opinion they rightfully point out that the guy was a total nutjob and would have doomed us all and that the one heroic thing they ever did was kill him

and dark age vampire and revised already turned mortis into just being another word for necromancy in 2002 anyway so your argument holds no water

>Blood Sorcery
>Two of the Disciplines listed in this chapter, Mortis and Thaumaturgy, behave differently than the others do. "..." Mortis and Thaumaturgy, however, are forms of blood sorcery, and they unleash a wider scope of powers. To reflect this property, they are each broken into two parts: path magic and rituals
those are from Dark Ages Vampire pg 171

>Mortis is a form of blood sorcery concerned with the condition of the corpse after death. The Cappadocian scholars teach that the soul leaves the body and goes to its reward when life ends, yet something remains. It is this “something,” both the physical fact of a rotting body
and the spiritual echo left within it, that is the subject of Mortis. Rumor has it that elders of the clan have purposefully Embraced Venetian sorcerers skilled in the ways of affecting the souls displaced from bodies, an art they call nigrimancy. Many traditional Cappadocians find the idea of trafficking with ghosts and souls unpleasant at best and heretical at worst.
same book pg 190
>The Venetian necromancers recently Embraced into Clan Cappadocian are said to have a deeper understanding of this path
a level 5 mortis ritual by the giovanni
>Walk Through the Shroud
>Level-Five Ritual
>A development of the Giovanni necromancers recently Embraced into the clan


and the harbingers of skulls disciplines in the revised guide to the sabbat pg 61 are
>Clan Disciplines: Auspex, Fortitude, Necromancy

>>98447064
Wasn't there a subplot somewhere implying that the Samedi fled the Giovanni purge of the Cappadocians, and that they took a part of Cappadocius' Vitae with them, thus preventing Giovanni from fully diablerizing him?

Because now I'm imagining that Samedi ritually shared and drank the blood and that is why they have Thanatosis which would also explain why Giovanni has never been able to get ahold of it.

>>98447169
>Wasn't there a subplot somewhere implying that the Samedi fled the Giovanni purge of the Cappadocians, and that they took a part of Cappadocius' Vitae with them, thus preventing Giovanni from fully diablerizing him?
that's the assumption beckett operates at when it comes to the bloodline we are never told if it's true as baron samedi avoids the question on if lazarus is his sire, but most of the fandom and the v5 writers assumed it to be true

>>98447163
>i don't think the giovanni really care about Cappadocius opinion
Who asked?
>dark age vampire and revised already turned mortis into just being another word for necromancy
Yes, and?
>your argument holds no water
My brother in Caine, you are the only one that seems to be having an argument with yourself here. 人

Ignoring the schizobabble though, you do raise one interesting (albeit unrelated) factoid:
>rightfully point out that the guy was a total nutjob
>would have doomed us all
>the one heroic thing they ever did was kill him
While all absolutely true, from an in-universe point of view we only really have the Giovanni's claims regarding this to go on, which can really only be considered post-hoc rationalizations in order to excuse the act. To most, Cappadocius was a Christian(-ish) scholar of death that considered the pursuit of humanity central enough to his clan that he buried everyone in it that was not committed to doing.. well if not "good" then at least some variation thereof, or at least the lesser evils.

And let's be honest, who wouldn't want to diablerize the god of the Semites?

>>98447174
>that's the assumption beckett operates at when it comes to the bloodline we are never told if it's true as baron samedi avoids the question on if lazarus is his sire
Man it's wild that writing used to not be shit, but yeah, the Beckett thing is where I got it, thanks.

>>98447232
god Beckett sucks so bad.

>>98447226
>My brother in Caine, you are the only one that seems to be having an argument with yourself here.
you said not having a death discipline somehow makes the spurned and having one makes one the chosen successors of Cappadocius
which is just not a thing because the cappadocians don't have a death discipline they just have a death themed blood sorcery and cappadocius choose the giovanni the so hard that if you kill augustus in the giovanni chronicles he brings him back to life

>we only really have the Giovanni's claims regarding this to go on, which can really only be considered post-hoc rationalizations in order to excuse the act. T
The cainite heresy that went to found the sabbat also knew because they discovered the cappadocian cult that wanted to support their clan founder in this endavor. the setites knew because of lazarus. the founders of the camarilla and the council of elders behind clan ventrue also knew because of the events in the giovanni chronicle and the true black hand knew because of the bahari

in general the cappadocians where so disliked that there been two seperate conspiracies to kill japeth at the same time and unlike the salubri nobody is sad that they cappadocians are gone
>Cappadocius was a Christian(-ish) scholar of death that considered the pursuit of humanity central enough to his clan that he buried everyone in it that was not committed to doing.. well if not "good" then at least some variation thereof, or at least the lesser evils.
we don't actually know which answers to the questions at the feast of folly been the right ones and it's implied that being a good person was not what cappadocious was looking for like he asks who follows the path to heaven but we know the most common path after the feast was the path of bones

>And let's be honest, who wouldn't want to diablerize the god of the Semites?
yeah okay lilith

>>98446124
In the past, when CofD was relevant, it was the Lost.
Nowdays, mostly Dreaming with some Lost.

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>>98446734
>jack is not your friend
It is actually hilarious that an ENORMOUS amount of people, most ironically of all the anarch-wanking "media literate" tourists, never picked up on this simple fact. Jack isn't a "coarse but legit dude", he's a genuine asshole and was a literal lifetime pirate and murderer long before he even was embraced.

>>98446743
The man on the couch? Mercurio? Seems like an odd prophecy considering that he's LaCroix's ghoul. While it never comes to pass, it is easy to imagine him "betraying" the player.

Nines happily uses the player as much as anyone, but what did Damsel do? Although I've never met a Marxist that could be trusted, I don't think she actually ever does anything wrong.

>>98447272
Mercurio is great and as far as I can tell he gets his blood from multiple vampires. Also Jack is great - if you play VTMB he makes it pretty clear what all this is about and how elder scheme and literally tells you to your face that you're being used.

The PC literally has Caine himself driving him around, the plot of that game was awesome.

>>98446124
I prefer the Lost

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>>98446724
Here, you will enjoy this.

>>98447272
>It is actually hilarious that an ENORMOUS amount of people, most ironically of all the anarch-wanking "media literate" tourists, never picked up on this simple fact. Jack isn't a "coarse but legit dude", he's a genuine asshole and was a literal lifetime pirate and murderer long before he even was embraced.
there was actually backlash about him not being a chill bro with beckett when BJD came out

which i always thought was really hillarious because BJD has some real stinkers in there but people complained about the one time one guy was in character

>The man on the couch? Mercurio? Seems like an odd prophecy considering that he's LaCroix's ghoul. While it never comes to pass, it is easy to imagine him "betraying" the player.
I guess that's why they had the malkavian thinblood prophecy there instead of someone saying "i think you can trust that ghoul guy" which would make no sense and i can also see the argument for him staying cool Mercurio never actually interacts much with LaCroix so while he is blood bound his actual attachment to the guy is very weak and you saved his life by not telling on him to LaCroix so it's another case of the prince having a skill issue

and Damsel probably can't be trusted because she is just Nine's underling but yeah you don't really have enough interactions with her to worry about her pulling anything

>>98447309
Nothing he said was a lie and Lacrox is trying to kill you. I admit though I haven't played VTMB as a non-malk for ages and Malks are aware of the whole thing right from the get-go. Simple fact is without Jack killing off Lacrox your player was going to be killed. Well, that and Caine giving you that power boost.

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>>98447264
>you said
Noooope. Ideas and musings are not arguments, man. If you want a fight you'll have to look elsewhere today. I avoid hard statements when speculating and prefer to let others make fools of themselves in this regard.
>the cappadocians don't have a death discipline they just have a death themed blood sorcery
And no-one ever claimed otherwise.
>cappadocius choose the giovanni the so hard that if you kill augustus in the giovanni chronicles he brings him back to life
Got a source on that? Because the Giovanni chronicles span four books and I am willing to bet that this is not as hard of a statement as you try to make it out to be.
>everyone knew everything about everything because someone within a loose organization knew something
I realizing this may read as a somewhat disingenuous paraphrasing, but it is essentially what you suggest, and I simply find that exceptionally hard to believe.
>nobody is sad the cappadocians are gone
SAD? Maybe not. But there's absolutely forces and people that are upset and still seething over it. Funnily enough I'd suspect that the survivors like the Samedi or the Harbingers are likely the least moved by it, albeit for different reasons. The Samedi because they laugh at anyone thinking that was the end of Cappadocius and the Harbingers because they were "betrayed" by their Antediluvian.
>we don't actually know which answers to the questions at the feast of folly been the right ones
Very fair point, and the type of ambiguity I do love. Point was more about the perception than the reality. Although to be fair, with the Harbingers running around, you'd think at least one of them would make it clear that "I *did* answer all those questions in accordance to the teachings!" if you got shelved for building a church or following the Path to Heaven.
>yeah ok lilith
Cappadocius was the only one trying to free the world, and the only true heir to Lilith and Caine!

>>98446724
>>98447272
>>98447309
It becomes funnier when you realize that Jack isn't just tugging at your strings, because why would he limit himself to you? Jack is likely tugging at multiple strings at once, most notably the anarchs. Jack likely actively manipulates Nines even though it ends up getting Nines final'd. Jack is the kind of background manipulator that does everything to not seem like a background manipulator. Jack does all of this seemingly only because he hates LaCroix personally.

Jack is a piece of shit.

>>98446541
Shouldn't the patriarch be more weaver-y? It's one of it's 3 incarna, right?

>>98447356
Why would you go onto the internet just to lie, I don't understand. Nines is fine. The only string Jack is pulling on is Lacrox's and he's literally working for the father of all vampires.

All Jack did was kill a boat full of morties and lock the sarcophagus. The whole thing is literally Caine's plan.

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>>98447369
Fuck, do I misremember? Now when you mention it I may have been full of shit on Nines. I need to replay the game. My apologies, egg on my face, and so on and so forth.

>>98447369
Jack literally caused the whole chaos in the city. He used you as his puppet to make everyone more paranoid and happy trigger. To the point of causing Beckett to believe in the sarcophagus.

He used Anarchs for his own plan, he provoked Camarilla and he baited Kuei-jin. Only reason Nines isn't dead is because of the plot armor he has.

Hell, if you consider what Protag does, Jack alone caused the death of a few dozen vampires, at very least and not including shovelheads.

>>98447382
Anon... play the game again. Jack is just working for Caine. All he did was kill the people on the ship (Pirate) and relock the box. Besides helping you if you accept the tutorial that's pretty much all Jack does all game long. It's all Caine needed him to do.

If you play a Malk there is even dialog IIRC that seems to imply he's worried about you blowing the whole thing because you're psychic. This part, and only this part, is something I could be wrong about.

>>98447381
Yeah Nines almost gets killed because of Lacrox and the blood hunt. Then he almost gets killed because werewolf. This is all according to Caine's plan. Jack borderline acts like he feels bad that you're getting as involved as you are.

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>>98445172
>>98446090
It's fascinating to see that this is in no way new and the Beast has always been something you can separate from yourself.
There's still a bit of wiggle room here that it's part of YOU and not something alien possessing your body, but the same's going to be true of V6's interpretation I'd wager.

Thank you for posting these, I admit I run the game more than I read it, especially older editions. I wonder if there's some potential disconnect there, with some segment of the WoD fanbase primarily reading it and knowing all the weird and wacky lore while another segment just reads the corebook and runs with the ideas presented on their interpretation, and never the twain shall meet? Because speaking to other STs they all interpret the Beast differently in a way that, evidently, isn't true to how the sources write them. I love most of those interpretations, but it's interesting to see that we're all mostly wrong except in a few ways.

>>98445389
I was always under the impression that a Vampire's avatar was replaced with part of Caine's, though I was only told that by an oldfag I used to play with and I've no idea where he got it from, nor do I know anything about Mage.

>>98447394
There is lore about the Beast being a basic part of humanity and lore about how the Beast is as far from humanity as you can get. Old World of Darkness lore was never a solid thing. Ffs back in the day people would call you a retard faggot cock lover tranny for thinking all the splats were part of the same universe at the same time.

>>98447394
The only thing you need to know about Mage is that they always lose to the Tremere and that you should never play it. If you want to play Mage, use Genius instead. It's like if Mage was good.

>>98447342
>Got a source on that? Because the Giovanni chronicles span four books and I am willing to bet that this is not as hard of a statement as you try to make it out to be.
i have to get the quote on it later today if you are still interested then because i am in the train to work now but it's pretty much just the typical white wolf chronicle railroad if you stop the giovanni and in any way cappadocius waves his hand and makes everything well again for them and that includes resurrecting augustus if you manage to kill him he does that because what is about to happen to him and his clan is exactly what he wants to happen as part of his plan to eat god

it's also noteable because i think this is the first time antedeluvians are shown as "plot device" and godlike level of powerful instead of methuselah of lower generation down than others
>SAD? Maybe not. But there's absolutely forces and people that are upset and still seething over it.
i can't think of any which to be fair might be because they been retconed in, but pretty much nobody mentions them in the final nights setting

hell we didn't even have offical stats for non harbinger of skulls cappadocians in the modern nights before v20 which sucks because i vastly prefer them to the giovanni
>I realizing this may read as a somewhat disingenuous paraphrasing, but it is essentially what you suggest, and I simply find that exceptionally hard to believe.
i am not saying everyone does the average vampire knows jack shit but a lot of the people in power did find out about it

>. Although to be fair, with the Harbingers running around, you'd think at least one of them would make it clear
they should destroy the mystery you are right but i would also point out that just answering one question wrong would not get you shelved and that the offical goal of the feast of folly was not to fix his clan but to deal with the clan's overpopulation issue so most harbinger might just think that they got a short stick?

>>98447404
Tell me why people like the Giovanni so much. I keep seeing people talk about them more and more often. Is it just the family vibe that they love? The necromancy thing? All of the above?

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>>98446341
This is an interesting point, and it's something people often get wrong about CtD, it's not really about hiding, Changelings absolutely cannot stagnate. Let's put it like this, let's say you're playing a game that is deliberately street level, the way it usually goes is that you befriend your motley, and because you all will literally die if you don't stoke the flames that your soul needs to live, you go out and try to make the world as full of hope as possible. If you're not playing a low stakes game, then the sky is the limit when you have stuff like Metamorphosis and Naming. In my game the Troll character for instance is not afraid at all to flex his Primal 5 and go around changing shit for the better.
Think about it, this isn't the Lost, you CANNOT hide, even sitting in a freehold will just make you fall to bedlam, you need to go out there, and if there is no easy glamour to be found, and you find out the Sabbat are using mortals as living blood bags not too far from here, suddenly you have some mortals that would be very happy to be saved.
Changeling is about being dynamic and enacting change, because if you don't live your dreams, you will die. Changelings do change the world, but it's in a different way from Mage, it's less about paradigms and more about hope. It's actually my favorite WoD game for a reason.

>>98447408
They don't. They were always one of the least liked and played clans.

>>98447408
i just said i vastly prefer the cappadocians m8

but i don't think people really liked the giovanni all that much. wasn't there even one statement on the something awful forum that the transylvania chronicles are called that instead of the tremere chronicles because the giovanni name made people not buy the giovanni chronicles?

>>98447393
Jack isn't just doing it because of Caine, Jack is doing it because he hates Camarilla and Caine stuff is just a bonus.

>>98446417
I hope Benedicte will kick ass, this is somilar to the whole Get situation in my book. Because coalition necessitates working together witb wyrm tainted pentex we HAVE to have this due ti setting to a degree. I mean why else spend the last audiolog pontificating about “Inquisition Bad Mkay?”. The art goes hard and is metal as fuck. It would just suck a tad if the only person ending up in heaven later (after all we now have hell and purgatory) only does so due to generic “power of friendship” and minority maxing (gay,black,communist, jewish person just being KIND!!).
Faith is hard work and I say this as an involuntary agnostic and fighting wereolfs that hunted humans for milennia should not be a sign of „evil“ in itself.
I also dislike how much colonialism and protestantism also played a roll in the lord fatigue log. Is it the influence of the americans on the writing team or the swedish corporate slopocrates?

>>98446541
Eh, holy spirit and father vound the wrists as signified by angry ild man gace and doce busts. Christ was meant to be Christ.

>>98446417
Surprisingly cool for a show that's a low 3/5. Jesus being sexy and cool is always nice to see.

>>98447441
It's the Americans.
Notably when Chapman is first introduced it was clearly written by someone who did their research on what rural-ish British police are like. Chapman uses the PEACE method of interview, which he points out directly to camera as a "Hey, don't assume I'm like the police you're familiar with, Americans" type thing, and people broadly don't have a real problem with them; not even D, despite all his anarchism, because they're the rural British police, they're part of the community they're in, they're trained in deescalation and don't come armed because they're not in any way an occupying force.

Come Chapman's reappearance in his and Kevin's drive episode, the way he and Kevin talk about the police is much more in line with the American idea of them, and a far cry from the surprisingly even-handed depiction of what policing actually is in the UK. They're basically looking into camera and going "cops, amirite?" in stark contrast to how it used to be.

I'm sure there's other examples of the show getting progressively more Americanised, but that was one that really stood out to me.

>>98447408
Not him, but Hekata were a silly replacement. Clan of Death as such was a neat idea for them to gang up.
I like Mafia cliches and also believe “ ew thing bad” the more I groggify, so that helps.

>>98447436
Well, yeah. He also probably thinks it's funny. My point is that he doesn't really do much and isn't really planning anything. Simple fact is the guy isn't smart enough and doesn't give enough of a shit. Pretty sure his humanity score is pretty low.

In VTMB the only thing he does is the Elizabeth Dane. Everything else is just Caine taking advantage of the nature of Kindred while giving the player a giant power boost so we can wipe out a bunch of people while getting that box to the penthouse.

>>98447458
Thanks for reaponding, I sort of felt a tad guilty for being acerbic on this subject with how shit-stirring increases again in threads after people were pretty happy recently.

Hey what book are the Hecata in?

>>98447481
>>98447458
Ps: I just don’t know how to respond really, the US is the primary market for WoD content so one has to bear the prosletysing I guess? Can’t do anything about this I guess.

>>98447482
cults of the blood gods and the players guide i believe

>>98447272
Mercurio and Beckett. That's who Rosa was talking about.

>>98444345
I feel like they were really lazy about the estrogen joke. Dale was a hedge alchemist and a drug dealer, he'd be as likely to peddle estrogen to teenagers as he would be to sell potions to thinbloods. Then again they did simultaneously identify him as a ghoul and a thinblood alchemists which is impossible, ergo the hedge alchemist designation.

>>98447393
>>98447436
>>98447480
Jack is something akin to a Brujah Promethean. He never talks about Carthage but he does envision a system that works far differenct from the Camarilla, hence his affiliation with Anarchs over anyone else. He's simultaneously a dreamer and a bastard, but not enough of a bastard to leave a fledgling to die in the streets of Downtown New York.

>>98447576
>Downtown New York.
Sorry I just woke up so I'm temporarily retarded. Los Angeles.

>>98446643
>>98446645
>>98446705

Yeah, thanks for answering that. For clarity I did play the game, but it wasn't so clear cut to me that he was incompetence. After reading everyone's reply at least it's not entirely that. The Kuei-Jin angle is the one i'm uncertain about on what was his logic. It's been a while, but the Kuei-Jin by default being backstabbing foreigners is just par for them in most of the editions. I'm surprise they didn't throw in an assimate

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>>98447587
>I'm surprise they didn't throw in an assimate
VtM Redemption got all the Assamite allowance

>>98439555
Because being scandi/germanic muh honour valhalla man enjoying glorious battle just IS the archetypical Get of Fenris brand of retard.

I really liked that quote from
W20? they have about the Fianna’s ancestors being nearly as great warriora than their own and telling them thats a compliment and nithing to be pissed about.

>>98447369
>>98447393
>Caine's plan
There is literally zero indication that Caine is involved at all, and the idea that he is even the cab driver is just an out-of-game easter egg.

>>98446481
Dont forget to guck your sister too

>>98447576
>not enough of a bastard to leave a fledgling to die in the streets of Downtown Los Angeles
Are you actually putting "letting a fledgling die" as a higher moral failing than "slaughtered an entire boat's worth of innocents as a joke just to potentially kill a Cammy snob in a funny way"?

>>98447670
Yes, because kine are animals. :-)

>>98447670
>>98447675

Remember that when it comes to morality that vampire players can't seem to agree. I wonder if one day they'll remove morality in the same way DnD eventually gave up alignment.

>>98447683
Vampires themselves can't agree, and in some ways it could be argued that your humanity is influenced more by what you personally believe than by any abstract definition of a human. Dark Ages revealed a metric ton of different ways vampires cope with their beast that had nothing to do with Humanity. Somewhere along the line Via Humanitatis became the majority.

>>98446832
You can stab them (health is vitae) & rape them until you devour their soul. This is way more fucked up than just biting & draining them. But if course bad lefty writers will always make something worse trying to avoid something slightly uncomfortable. I say if you dont like the concept of biting people, maybe do t play a vampire game.

>>98447657
Caine's not even the oldest supernatural freak that would be hanging around LA. Lucifer canonically works in Hollywood.

>>98446915
Your existence & competence undermine his authority

>>98447731

Sometimes I wonder if that's due to working of consensuses. It'll be kinda hilarious if the only reason most of the monsters in world of darkness became more "humane" is because mages. I don't want to give mages more of a reason to wake about their meta lore though.

>>98447756
yeah but that would be so easy to turn around into a PR win

like suckhead at this point is probably too competent as when lacroix would list everything he had them do in the last few nights as a excuse to name someone that young a deputy people would think that he is making stuff up

>>98447788
>Sometimes I wonder if that's due to working of consensuses.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was a direct interaction between Caine's Curse and the Traditions. Vampires can be immune to Consensus but the reaction to their existence could be considered a hyper specific form of paradox backlash or, more specifically, the Inquisition is a direct response to deviation from consensus. Don't poke the Sleepers before you eat them.

>>98447731
Via Humanitatis was also the one you been on while embraced in the dark age setting. the only things that changed been political: that the camarilla decided to demonize paths as the tool of the enemy, the sabbat killed paths off it seemed to be too soft and the independents relation with their pet paths stayed pretty much exactly the same

so you could say that paths just stopped being mainstream like a lot of things just fell off during history

>>98444231
I'm so very tired of seeing estrogenic males throw pity parties for themselves over outlandish ideals that are so far removed from reality they might as well be schizophrenic hallucinations weaponized against humanity

>>98447802

PR win is not the same as an actual win. What he'd have to be worry about is someone else convincing you to their side instead. Not to mention the fact that he does use dominate on you at some point. Honestly, I can get why he might think killing you may be easier than seducing you. Keep in mind, for all intents and purposes you might as well be a GMPC because cain driving you around maybe giving you a slight boost allows you to more or less take out the kuei-jin, werewolves, gargoyles, Sabbat flesh castles, plague death cults, and more. At a certain point you can argue he's retarded, but imagine storyteller putting an npc like in your campaign.

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>>98446417
>How do people feel
Dorceless, evidently.

>>98447587
>For clarity I did play the game, but it wasn't so clear cut to me that he was incompetence.
A good leader makes even his enemies respect him. A bad leader takes his frustrations out on his underlings and openly treats them as disposable.

Hey guys anyone have a good idea for a name for a specialized sabbat pack that is all about exploring the different kind of blood sorceries?

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>>98446417
>knowing this how Christ will be perceived by the World of Darkness community for the foreseeable future?
Notice the face is identical to Palmers' when he uses his abilities. That's not Christ, that's a Bane Spirit.

>>98446417
That's not Christ anymore, anon.

>>98447925
>>98447846
>>98446417
>rather than put any effort into actually representing fomori they just make them look like generic backrooms monsters
Sad.

>>98447394
The Beast is an atavism of what youll become if you let your humanity drop, & being a vampire is like taking the barrel that holds the tattered remains of your soul & kicking the bottom out. Better work hard or it'll all spill out. You can modify the Beast so its not digging into you as much, but its there & its waiting for you to show weakness. You do not have an Avatar. Avatars are bullshit that gets stapled to you to make you a mage. If it was just a corrupted Avatar or the like, then the Tremere wouldnt have lost their magic, they just be some variant of Nephandi/Marauders/whatever. The Beast is what you are without your humanity.

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>>98447954
Bennings got a cool art piece, at least. Would be a real bitch to animate though.

>>98447887
Blood of the Fold

>>98447410
This is something I think would be better represented by taking a little bit of Lost.

Have Winter, more reflective of Stasis tham just death. Everything frozen & cold & unmoving but alive. Its also creeping onward. You've got to fight the hold of winter, keep the fire alive. Keep hope, passion, & love burning. But Winter has agents doing the opposite. Autumn people are those who do things that should be passionate & interesting, like the bug collector from Autumn People, but theyve lost the wonder that would normally be involved in the act. Like how Funko pops are a sick corruptive spin on celebrating your hobby, literally killing all the fun things that used to be there. But Winter's People are those that reap, the Death nell of wonder. You could have things like the Wild Hunt for players to fight against. Actual enemies beyond just the vibe dying. A consequence for sticking your neck out to create Glamour, is that Winter is coming to kill you & the more you expose yourself by helping & creating, the more Winter draws a bead on you.

So if I could, I would make the enemy more tangible & maybe take the teeth out of Banality as a punishment just a bit.

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>>98443904
YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE SAFE, MAGE FAGS

>>98448020
Do you think they’ll bring back Brucato for M6?