>>98463171
What are people currently running?

>>98463171
Duplicate thread spamming; thread already exists here: >>98425397

>>98463440
No, i'm not going to go to that thread that drastically changed the OP. I made a proper sequel thread

>Create a changed OP so you can pick fights with a 10 year old general
>Bitch about how people create variations on that OP because they're sick of your bullshit
Hark a vagrant with this one.

YOU SERIOUSLY NEED THREE FUCKING OPEN OSR "NOT GENERALS"???

>>98463719
There's actually only one, there's a fake one and the one that's over and about to be archived
>>98463272
Stonehell this sunday.

A temple is an excuse to do something more like a video game dungeon, “something happens when you light all the torches”, or “something happens if you destroy all the undead and cast exorcism successfully on the old fountain”, or just a screwy layout (dungeon shaped like thing, dungeon spells out a word). You could say the same thing about wizard towers, but wizard architecture is something that made sense to one guy for like ten minutes maybe, temple architecture implies a belief system so it tickles the imagination better.
I say it’s better if the PC never receive any other information about the temple’s architects beyond what the temple itself tells them. You can have adventures in a temple styled after your favorite OC god or whatever, and that’s cool, but it’s a bit less of an OSR dungeon and a bit more in the direction of a story-based adventure (tying into a greater story and building that story up over time vs just giving the players some weird shit to explore and letting them build their own narrative out of that).

>>98463719
The tantrum will continue until /osrg/ falls Comrade.
Dozens must play 5e or some shit.
Seriously he's going to keep doing this until the mods ban him, which they'll never do because he has a 4chan pass or some shit, only way to explain why they've not dealt with him yet

>>98463440
>AD&D 2e
>”OSR adjacent”
This was quality comedy the first few times but you can’t just do the same joke every thread.

>>98463727
This is the fake one. You're the one who stole the "Open OSR" name to troll.

>>98463858
Wait until he fully spergs out and does something drastic or gets exposed to doing some heinous shit.
>>98463843
Temple of the frog was one of the first dungeons ever made, i don't think temples deserve the hate.

>>98464048
>Temple of the frog
Wasn't that Arneson?
And didn't it suck ass?

>>98463446
>I made the proper sequel
>sequel
>nono not a general
>I'm totally special its a sequel
>again
You're a clown.

>>98464202
He's not a clown anon!
Clowns are meant to be funny rather than pathetic

>>98463272
A friend started up a Dark Sun game after the announcement that it was coming out for 5e, under the idea that it would be the last chance to play in the setting before it was permanently ruined.
Seems melodramatic to me, but I think he's a decent DM and he genuinely likes the setting.

>>98463440
If you couldn't tell, that was made by an /osrg/ troll. The tell-tale sign is the effort to try and say 2e is OSR-adjacent instead of just OSR. Those trolls keep doing underhanded shit like that.

>>98464223
>You can tell its a troll because they're trying to avoid conflict instead of this OP which directly attacks them
You idiot.

>>98464240
So, the choice is between a thread that pisses off some trolls and says 2e is OSR, or post in a thread made by those trolls and lies about 2e not being OSR? That's a tough one.

I will be posting in this thread.

>>98463843
Who are you talking to?

>>98463843
I like to use tombs for more puzzle-oriented dungeons, based on real-world designs like the pyramids. I like to keep puzzles relatively short, and a tomb is better fit in my eyes for a smaller dungeon than a full temple.

The big "clue" I like to have is that the tomb's puzzles are made in a way where they're designed so that family members would have an advantage in solving them, ie. knowing the family motto is "Sapientia et Audacia” (Wisdom and Boldness) can serve as the solution for a number of different puzzles, like there being four scattered keys with different animal motifs (Dove, Owl, Pigeon, Eagle) and a door with two slots for keys, and having to figure out which keys in which order opens the door without setting off any traps.

I actually don’t even like 2e, but all the posters who hate 2e are also opposed to all forms of useful OSR discussion, and for at least the last year it looks like it has all been one guy.

File: TrentSmith.png (244 KB, 1014x800)

244 KB PNG

>>98464348
I've got mixed feelings about 2e. It's got it strong points (more flexible/customizable, tons of high quality material/resources, etc.), and I definitely prefer it over 1e, but AD&D in general just doesn't flow quite as easily as B/X does and it's just harder for groups to get the "rhythm" of an AD&D game down in comparison.
Even so, 2e's got lots of great material and is definitely worth discussing. It might not be my absolute favorite edition, but I've played enough of it that it feels genuinely jarring that there's people out there who act like it's the death of RPGs.

In the last thread, someone linked up a pretty decent quote from Trent Smith about the phenomenon. It basically amounts to just "Grognards being Grognards."

>>98464257
>I will keep nercobumping my troll thread
we know

>>98464348
>>98464422
>none of us have played this game in decades if ever, but boy are we mad and spiteful about it!
Real mask off moment as you say.

>>98464444
I'm in a Dark Sun game right now (not RIGHT now, obviously, but you know what I mean). Don't want to say I joined it with any feelings of spite, but knowing that there's trolls who stay up all night gnashing their teeth at the mere thought of people playing 2e didn't exactly drive me away from it.

>>98464422
They are starting from the premise that Gary Gygax was based (never a grifter, never a shit-taker, never mind the fact that 1e was a fucking grift and was blatantly unfinished/unedited). Everything else follows from that. So, it’s actually not grognard edition war politics, it’s more like normal internet identity politics.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-06 110656.png (1.17 MB, 1572x801)

1.17 MB PNG

>>98464422

File: Gyg.png (451 KB, 574x488)

451 KB PNG

>>98464489
>never mind the fact that 1e was a fucking grift
I think there was a period where even Gygax believed what he was saying about it.

>>98464444
lol
>>98464738
lmao
What is that from?

File: 1771883876088962.png (1.03 MB, 422x1488)

1.03 MB PNG

>>98464791
Old dragon magazine, I believe.

>>98464489
>So, it’s actually not grognard edition war politics,

>it’s more like normal internet identity politics.

Which is what grognard edition war politics are.

It's that "everything was the best it will ever be when I personally was 12 years old" mentality.

>>98464459
>I joined a game made entirely because of fear and spite
Nigger, they decided to run the game because they're afraid magic WotC man will come destroy their pdfs so they have to buy the new version or something insane.
You're fuelled by fear masquerading as enlightenment.

File: 363AF342-B23B-444C-AAF4-A(...).jpg (235 KB, 1269x703)

235 KB JPG

>>98464953
He's running Dark Sun because he's expecting another case similar to Spelljammer, where the 5e version ended up being so bad that it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. He wants to introduce a few guys to the original Dark Sun so that can be their first impression of the setting.

He might be being overly melodramatic, but I don't think it's spite or fear, more just no faith that WotC won't drop the ball like they have with most of their recent products and put a weird stain on the setting.

>>98465000
>Its not out of spire or fear
>Its just that they're afraid
Yet somehow the connection of 1st ed and 2nd ed being the same thing are there for you.
You're mentally deficient.

An insane amount of faggotry to have three of these threads all up at once

>>98465060
This is the only real thread. The other's are a result of some incredibly high levels of faggotry.

>>98465019
You’re trying too hard man.

>>98465019
I wouldn't call wanting the original Dark Sun to be people's first impression of it being afraid.

If someone wants to bring you to a particularly good pizza place so that can be your first impression of pizza, are they doing it out of fear?

>>98463272
Finally decided to let myself try Shadowdark.
Not really excited.

>>98465086
You are the real faggot, that's for sure.

>>98465112
>food metaphor
You can't make this shit up.
Yes. That's specifically what they're doing.
They fear a negative outcome to the extent they are trying to contrive an experience they think is more real or proper.

>>98465100
Wish I saw your post before I bothered trying to reply to his.

>>98465259
You stop saying retarded shit I'll stop pointing it out.

>>98465000
If he wanted to give them a good impression of Dark Sun, why not run it in 4e?

File: favorite-d-d-setting-dark(...).png (994 KB, 640x853)

994 KB PNG

>>98465507
...wait, wut?

This was a thing?
Now I gotta look into this.

“Before the new version drops” actually is the best time to run a game or setting that you already know well. But also note the way that trollcow just makes up lies about other people in real time and expects other people to answer for his lies.

>>98464805
The fact that someone was calling him out on his pretentiousness makes it even better. The guy actually gives him one of the quotes from AD&D and he still says “you must be thinking of b/x!” lmao

>>98464888
Nostalgia for paradise has always been an element of edition wars, and so has some degree of fanboyism or hero-worship, but this is different. He’s BASED. You should also note that the time period that they are nostalgic for actually happened before they were born, that’s another big tell that separates nostalgia-motivated fanboys from identity-motivated hipsters and politicals, this is manufactured nostalgia for a time period that didn’t actually happen.

>>98465507
lol, people who run other D&Ds don’t necessarily consider running 4e, it’s the only version that is actually a different game.

>>98465735
>The fact that someone was calling him out on his pretentiousness makes it even better.

He definitely mellowed out/got humbled as time passed. His posts on Dragonsfoot are almost a 180 from when he still thought he was the greatest game designer in the world.

>>98463272
I'm the anon who reported on solo-running the Lost Citadel of Scarlet Minotaur in B/X
I also have a live B/X campaign going which is about to end
funnily enough I have had no time to finish the Citadel yet, maybe next week

>>98464444
no niger, people just really hate you

>>98465975
How long does it take to run a solo-adventure?

>>98464207
Pathetic clowns are a whole class of clown, Anon. The "sadface" or "Auguste" who is the butt of all the whitefaces' cruel japes.

Actually very apt, come to think about it.

>>98464223
But 2e isn't OSR? I don't understand your point.

>>98466446
Would that make ACKStecs a Harlequin of some kind?

Remember:
>Please report and ignore any trolling.

>>98464348
>all the posters who hate 2e are also opposed to all forms of useful OSR discussion
Looks like the opposite to me. There's no meaningful OSR discussion whatsoever in these threads, whereas the guys in /osrg/ are knowledgeable about the rules and have reasonable module recs and can give examples from actually running games.

>and for at least the last year it looks like it has all been one guy
LMAO okay you're trolling, then. If you genuinely think the OP text update back in October was one guy you're severely delusional, like tranny delulu. You might as well be claiming you're the reincarnation of the Tupaq Inca.

>>98466456
ACKStec doesn't really fit into this model because he didn't even fuck with Fishfag on purpose, and also it isn't part of a sadface clown's act to become so apoplectic with rage that his cock explodes. The closest circusy equivalent would be something like if the elephant trainer accidentally made his elephant sit on the sadface and crush him to death, but it only happened because the sadface didn't believe that elephants can be trained so he refused to get out of the way. Really stretches the analogy, you know?

>>98465716
It's apparently one of the better 4e books.
That's not exactly saying much, but it might be a case where Dark Sun is good wherever it ends up.
There might even be reason to look forward to the 5e release. Might be some cool maps to use, considering how important wandering in the wilderness is to the setting. Most of the original maps are all still pretty good, but there's a few I wouldn't mind getting color/graphic updates.

>>98466617
That's more cope than hope.

>>98465735
>Nostalgia for paradise has always been an element of edition wars, and so has some degree of fanboyism or hero-worship, but this is different. He’s BASED.

I don't think it's a Gygax-worship-first approach. It seems much more like it's blind worship of 1e, and Gygax being forced out before 2e just feeds into that. The whole "Gygax is so based" business only comes from Gygax being a useful tool for them to misinterpret in any shape they want, because Gygax would constantly contradict himself as he tried to appeal to as many people as possible. He's written enough stuff that it's only too easy to create any sort of image you want out of him through selective quotation.

>>98463171
>whats your fav setting for a dungeon? (Ruins, crypts, prison, sewers, temple etc)

I like active dungeons. Fortresses, castles, places where it feels like it would take an army to conquer and if something goes wrong it's going to be just one giant non-stop battle.

>>98465735
>>98467255
Anyone who says something is BASED is just trolling.

>>98467900
I once had a group of players turn a castle into a dungeon by deciding to kill a king. Just ended one session where they successfully killed him, made a castle dungeon between sessions, and then they had to fight their way out.
I don't even remember why they decided they wanted to kill the king. It may have genuinely be just that they wanted to see if they could.

>>98466434
Depends on how much journaling do you do as that is the most time consuming part of solo gaming.
With OSR adventures journaling is not as essential and I do very little of it. I progress at about 5 nonempty rooms per hour

>>98465716
Looking through this. It's... rough.

>>98471042
How bad did they butcher it?
how bad will wotc butcher it again?

>bumping an absolutely dead alleged """OSR""" thread by talking about 4e
lmao

File: Dragonking.png (1.09 MB, 796x1045)

1.09 MB PNG

>>98472277
Everything is considerably dumbed down, and most of the book is dedicated to various character options you can select.

From a 4e perspective, it's probably pretty awesome, because it's got tons of flavorful options to pick through. It's also probably very hard to resist becoming a Dragon King.

But as a setting book... I'm not sure if 4e is the right fit for it. The travels rules in the book amount to 2 pages, and are incredibly basic. The lore is incredibly truncated, and it gives off a very different, much softer tone than the original. Halflings being cannibals is presented in the softest way imaginable, like they're Native Americans who wish to respect all they kill by making use of even their flesh for sustenance.

Arcane casters can essentially choose to defile or not to defile with every spell, with defiling draining magic from the land and also dealing necrotic damage to nearby allies in exchange for getting a re-roll on either attack or damage. It's interesting in how it makes defiling quite tempting and optional, but it also changes the inherent evil nature of arcane magic so that you can be a good wizard who only casts non-defiling magic if that's how you wanna roll.

>>98472495
>I'm not sure if 4e is the right fit for it.
It's one of the worst fits for it. Dark sun works in an OSR system like 2e due to it's focus on exploration, resource management and higher lethality. 4e is the worst possible edition due to the focus on combat as sport, with character death being almost nonexistant.
>Defiling being optional for defilers
HATE this, if you want to not defile you be a preserver.

>>98467900
Are there any modules like this where youre actively infiltrating some sort of stronghold?

>>98473035
like almost all of them
what is T1 if not storming a stronghold of cultists?
what is B2 if not storming fortified homes of golblinoids?

>>98464181
It's not that bad. It's got weird ideas (like time travel, aliens and advanced technology), but most of the adventure is just killing frogs and frog people.

I wouldn't say it's good, but it's a good way of showcasing the Arneson side of things.

>>98472777
>character death being almost nonexistant
You only played the pick up games at LGS, I see.

File: images.jpg (28 KB, 447x447)

28 KB JPG

>>98473325
>what is B2 if not storming fortified homes of golblinoids?
Wait anon, you're right. Did not think of b2 that way.

>>98473802
Since when was 4e lethal to PCs in any shape or form? It's pillowfisted combat as sport, the farthest removed from the OSR style of play (and at the same time weirdly full circling to it's wargaming roots due it being more of a tactical miniature skirmish game than a roleplaying game.)

>>98467255
>It seems much more like it's blind worship of 1e
No it isn’t, they don’t play 1e, they don’t care about 1e. Dragons foot actually worships 1e and they don’t sound anything like these brosr cunts on 4chan. Hating 2e gives them a target and a smokescreen, but they don’t care about AD&D at all, they barely know how to discuss b/x. They’re just want to feel based.

>>98473965
to be fair there always was a minority of dragonsfoot posters who were very vocally anti-2e
a minority but still

>>98474140
The funny thing is the K&K guys were not just anti-2e, they were anti-Basic/BX/BECMI too.

>>98473965
You are a genuine retarded psychotic

>>98474140
Yea, the purity spiral on /osrg/ was originally based on that (trying to mimic it for identity-based reasons which go back to Gygax being based), trollcow used to mention dragonsfoot a lot more often lmao. But that was ultimately based on memes and memes are always changing. The opinions you find on dragonsfoot (ESPECIALLY if you go back and read the old posts when people were really angry about it) don’t sound anything like the purity spiral on /osrg/.
To be clear, I still think it’s basically one guy and I think that we should call him trollcow, but I think there were more in the past (because it was based on memes and memes are always changing).

>>98473965
>Dragons foot actually worships 1e
Maybe originally, but they mellowed out almost instantly and were discussing all the 'old school' games by 2003.

>>98464422
>but AD&D in general just doesn't flow quite as easily as B/X does and it's just harder for groups to get the "rhythm" of an AD&D game down in comparison

Nonsense. We started with B/X and easily moved to AD&D in the early '80s, and we were elementary school kids. Playing of blend of both was very common then, as well.

>>98476753
It's harder to get the rhythm of 2e down though since it doesn't have a rhythm, all that got ripped out when they crippled the AD&D XP and exploration mechanics in order to enstoryfaggot it.

>>98476901
Melan, go to bed with that nonsense. You're making mountains out of molehills again.

2e explains how a DM is supposed to set a rhythm according to how their group likes to play, instead of having to follow one rhythm and either they like it or they don't.

>>98477031
>2e explains how a DM is supposed to set a rhythm according to how their group likes to play
No it doesn't.

>>98477045
Go to bed Melan.

Sad tidings anons.
After 2 online sessions in a row with not enough people showing up, i've decided to cancel my megadungeon campaign. Dissappointing. Trying to draw lessons from it
>start players at the megadungeon, not the preamble level 0 area
>need to figure out a way to get players to commit more
>work more on resource management. Make going back to town/lodging and food/water matter.

>>98477340
it do be liek that anon
I want to say something encouraging because all DMs had games that fizzle out for a variety of reasons, not necessarily poor DMing

but I also want to say that megadungeons are a fucking meme and you fell for it
even the ones universally praised as best were obviously poorly playtested, they require enormous effort on the DM's side, and if you expect to just pick up a megadungeon and play it out as written your game will suck donkey balls

next time try running an ordinary campaign
any official low level OSE adventure, anything low level from the Merry Mushmen, old classics like B2 or new classics like The Black Wyrm of Brandonsford

>>98477712
I went with Stonehell because it seemed easy to pickup and play. while it was pretty easy out of the box i definitely made some errors.
>next time try running an ordinary campaign
Definitely doing that next time, b2 like you mentioned is a great choice.
Also speaking of memes i fell for, gunderholfen. doubt i'm going to run it and don't know what to do with it.

>>98477340
Games are hard to keep together. Everyone needs a 99% chance of showing up, or the odds of a game not happening increase substantially with each player.

>need to figure out a way to get players to commit more
Problem is, this always varies from person to person, and is often just out of your control.

People need to play megadungeons in order to realize that they miss exploring overland and looking for new dungeons.

>>98478166
>Problem is, this always varies from person to person, and is often just out of your control.
I somewhat disagree there are things MOST players will find boring and there are things MOST players will find engaging.
I mean yeah ultimately it's beyond your control, but you most certainly can make an effort in line with making the game more exciting for an average player

and OSR is not really different from any other style of TTRPG
for example put meaningful pressure on the players to keep them engaged with the dangerous place or they start fucking around in the village too much boring themselves to death of your game

>>98478358
I like megadungeons that feel like a whole world inside of themselves.

I once ran a megadungeon that started out with players finding a mysterious fabric store, discovering that it was infinite in size on the inside and that it had its own society that used various types of rare materials/patterns as currency, and they ended up abandoning the outside world and just spent the next ten sessions just diving deeper and deeper, learning about the weird people that roamed around the shelves and crates looking for rare fabrics or trying to understand the mysteries of the realm's existence, while having to fight against the ones that had been driven mad. They only stopped exploring when they really came to appreciate that there was no real end to the dungeon and they could spend the rest of their lives among the various linens and silks until they themselves went mad and were slain by some adventurers.

They left with several levels and fantastic new outfits.

>>98479374
>fantastic new outfits
kino
Also, I understand that wasn't a prewritten megadungeon?

>>98477031
And that's why it's a shit game

>>98477031
>Melan
lmao he's reaching new heights of thinking that everyone who knows what the OSR actually is and how it works is the same person

>>98477760
>Stonehell
that's the thing Stonehell is supposedly one of the better ones, tenfootpole blog sand praise to the book...
... on it's presentation only after READING through it, because how long would it take to play through it?

in the indie scene a medium sized adventure that takes couple months worth of weekly session may be playtested once. I'm pretty sure the average number of playtests a megadungeon has is 0
most of them barely have had any proofreading, and are lucky to have any [much needed] additional editing at all

pre-written mega-dungeons just suck ball's ass man

>>98480156
He's basically the only person left that agrees with you. Even old K&K guys are admitting that their whole anti-2e thing was just immature shitposting that they're now ashamed of. Might not even be long before Melan looks back at his ranting and realizes it was ridiculous.

>>98479438
When I realized they were just going to keep exploring beyond the first few rooms, after that first session I expanded the dungeon into a hundred rooms, then another hundred rooms as they started to get close to one of the edges.

All in all, they only went through maybe 10-20% of the map before they decided they had enough of the megadungeon life.

>>98474201
seek meds, "purity spiral" fuckwit

>>98480327
no one gives a fuck about these people but you, fishfag

>>98480959
I mean, you're right. No one cares about Melan or the K&K guys, and those were the guys who agreed with you.
Everyone else disagrees with you, including Simulacrum and Matt Finch.

>>98481173
repeat: no one gives a fuck about these people but you.
Fuck off, fishfag

>>98481175
I don't know what this fishfag thing is about, but you shouldn't make it so obvious you're just one guy by trying to call everyone that.

>>98481173
lol, Simulacrum does not think that 2e is old-school, just that it's "OSR" in the same way that everything calling itself "OSR" is, because the whole point of his article series is that what "OSR" means has been hopelessly corrupted since its original clear beginning that used the definition /osrg still uses.

I think it's hilarious that after years of refusing to read the amply cited articles because they shit all over your arguments about C&C and people kept using them to club you like a baby seal, you've decided to just claim they say what you want them to say.

>>98481351
>since its original clear beginning that used the definition /osrg still uses.
You are once again invited to substantiate it being a prevalent opinion in the first year archived:
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/end/2016-06-11/order/asc/

>>98481248
>Only one person uses the nickname I hate
jej

>>98481396
LMAO you fucking retard
Anon didn't even claim /osrg/ has been using it continuously, he just said that /osrg/ still uses the old, undiluted, correct definition of OSR.

That said it's hilarious that you claim the OP text doesn't decide the scope of the thread now with one breath and in the next breath you try to use old OPs from back when the concept of OSR didn't need to be explained as proof of the scope.

>>98481351
>just that it's "OSR"
So, 2e is OSR. Glad that's settled.
> it's "OSR" in the same way that everything calling itself "OSR" is,
Oh, no. He includes it as part of the core of OSR, ie. first party TSR-era D&D. He even includes a game like For Gold & Glory among his list of "true retroclones".

>I think it's hilarious that after years of refusing to read the amply cited articles
What's funny is that the articles you yourself bring up disagree with you. Even when you find some that start to agree with your generally wrong ideas like OSRIC being the first OSR game, that ends up backfiring on you dramatically by people making those claims or even the guy who made OSRIC agreeing that 2e is OSR.

>>98481486
>he just said that /osrg/ still uses the old, undiluted, correct definition of OSR.
NTA, but that's demonstrably wrong.

>>98481486
>Anon didn't even claim /osrg/ has been using it continuously, he just said that /osrg/ still uses the old, undiluted, correct definition of OSR.
"Still" is, in fact, a claim of being the original state.

>That said it's hilarious that you claim the OP text doesn't decide the scope of the thread now with one breath
So long as you retards keep showing up to shit on these threads for using a different definition of the term, turnabout is fair play. And per the lack of hard authority governing "the OSR" or gatekeeping mechanisms for 4chan, it must be descriptive common use rather than prescriptive from some niche old foggies in the early aughts.

>and in the next breath you try to use old OPs from back when the concept of OSR didn't need to be explained as proof of the scope.
The "lack of explanation" includes explicitly referring to "we already discussed that 2e material", with no apparent push-back in the prior thread in question. There is in fact a conspicuous volume of 2e discussion without rejections, so the common use of the early /osrg/ appears to have had the prevailing opinion that 2e was in fact on-topic.

>>98481511
Of course FG&G is a true retroclone. It retroclones 2nd ed. No one denies that. A true retroclone of BRP clones BRP; that doesn't make it old-school, and the article doesn't say it does. Jesus you're desperate.

>>98481531
>"Still" is, in fact, a claim of being the original state.
>t. Illiterate
Incorrect! In the way Anon used it, it means "at the present time" with the implication of "in spite of the age of this definition". There's no assertion of continuity. Compare "there are still those who consider the 1911 to be the most beautiful pistol design of all time". That doesn't mean they've been using it continuously since it was first designed.

I mean, you'e still wrong anyway because /oserg/ *has* always had the same scope, but your original reply to Anon was a hilariouslty retarded non sequitur.

>>98481511
>So, 2e is OSR. Glad that's settled.
No, 2e is not OSR. 2e is "OSR", or if you prefer it's """"OSR"""", i.e. it's old-school according to the ignorant and retarded who don't know what they're talking about (but are often weirdly insistent, as in the present case).

Anyway, kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98481531
>keep showing up to shit on these threads
These threads are nothing but an /osrg/ hijack attempt. Stop trying to slide by pushing your fake OSR definition and you won't have to see people pointing out how stupid your inaccurate, made-up claims are. I mean, hell! This isn't even the real Open OSR thread!

>>98481570
I do enjoy that at this point this is a hijack of a hijack. At least it serves as a decent containment thread for his schizophrenia, even if he occasionally escapes over the walls.

>>98481538
We're talking about OSR games. If the guy is even including its clones in his list of OSR games, and even in a higher caste of "closer to the core of OSR" than the "D&D mods" or the "NuSR/Commercial OSR" games that he considers to be lesser, it's pretty safe to say the original game is safe in its position as part of the original core of OSR.

>Jesus you're desperate.
Says the guy still trying to argue that 2e is not OSR when even sources he cites say it is.

>that doesn't make it old-school,
Aw, that's cute. Giving up finally, by moving the goal posts to start saying "2e may be OSR, but it's not old-school"?
Either way, it'd belong in the OSR general lol.

>>98481511
That's weird: I just checked Part V and it doesn't seem to agree with you at all. The second paragraph in particular is rather striking.

https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html

>>98481588
Incorrect! 2e is not, and never has been considered, OSR or an old-school game! It by no means belongs in the OSR General. Which is why posts about it are always removed as off topic or trollposts. Hope this helps!

>>98481570
These threads are the only place to have real discussion about OSR games, because you're always too busy crying about how your thread only has you in it while you rage at the fishfag that ruined everything for you, so we don't have to worry about you trying to contribute any of your ideas, just some shitposts.

Your shitposts are always preferable to your attempts to actually discuss OSR seriously. You have a way of killing threads with the latter, and only spurring people with the former.

>>98481594
>Fishfag, you fucking mongoloid, 2nd ed is not old-school D&D.
lol, stay mad grognard.

File: Bildtgarv.png (571 KB, 669x621)

571 KB PNG

>>98481603
>These threads are the only place to have real discussion about OSR games
>the thread contains zero discussion about OSR games
lmao

>>98481594
LMAO

Owned again

The fish cannot stop losing

>>98481614
>starts posting his classic "you've beaten me" images
The fun part is that you genuinely think the board is too stupid or can't pay attention to understand your patterns of behavior, even as you make it incredibly easy to do so.

Just tracking that image is enough to showcase dozens of times you got your ass beat, and now it's your ass getting beaten to the tune of even Simulacrum admitting 2e is OSR.

>>98481594
R E K T

>>98481603
Kek, the absolute malding bitterness
This niggy full of wormwood

File: La-La Man.jpg (70 KB, 722x525)

70 KB JPG

>>98481634
>noooo you can't post the picture that hurts my feefees you lose you lose you lose
Pic related.

>Simulacrum admitting 2e is OSR
Did you... did you follow the link to his blog just now?

This is fucking comedy hour, I swear.

>>98481635
I look forward to fishfag absolutely memoryholing this entire thread just like every other time he's been shown to have been completely, utterly wrong on something.

>>98481646
Wait, are you telling me that Simulacrum edited his blog just now?

That the guy who's been trying to force his fake history of OSR is also the guy who had to cite himself in order to find anyone who agrees with him?

That's the funniest fucking thing. It really is just a case of no-name bloggers trying to turn 4chan into the last place that hasn't run them out, and failing because all their ideas are demonstrably wrong. When you have to try and cite yourselves to try and make a point, you've lost on so many levels, especially when you cite yourself and still end up proving the other guy's point.

>>98481651
like what you tried to do with simulacrum last thread?

>>98481664
lol he did, this is the newest archive of it. must have added that comment about fishfag in response to the last thread.
>https://web.archive.org/web/20260804194028/https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html

File: Simulacrum, Fishfag's OSR(...).png (93 KB, 1016x569)

93 KB PNG

>>98481664
lol, it was absolutely authoritative to you 10 minutes ago. I'm amazed at your levels of backflipping cope.

Do you ever get tired of being owned this badly? is it a fetish with you?

>>98481685
That's absolutely hilarious.

I knew that the list of people that agreed with their stupid ideas couldn't be very long, but at the point where they have to try and cite each other as sources is the point where these loser bloggers should probably just give up.

>>98481651
I don't think I've ever seen a man get so consistently, brutally wrecked in my entire life. It's his own fault, of course, not knowing when to quit and accept his loss.

>>98481701
I never said it was authoritative, that was you. You were the one pretending that an idiot blogger who spends his days being reviled on 4chan as his last resort to spread his falsehoods should be treated with any kind of respect, and even then his blog disagrees with you. 2e is OSR according to what he wrote five years ago.

And, the loser is too much of a coward to even say it's not OSR, and instead has to try shifting the goal posts to "not old-school D&D" lmao.

>>98481664
For the record, I've posted Simulacrum's blog a number of times and I'm not him. It's fucking hilarious that he owned you that hard though.

File: Flj1UQ5aYAA1Vqd.jpg (71 KB, 960x604)

71 KB JPG

>>98481725
Nice damage control, but we just had it revealed that Simulacrum is one of the trolls who's been trying to redefine what OSR means on this board, making your little clique of losers even smaller than what was previously imagined. When the only sources you have are yourselves, you might as well just admit you're a cult.

>>98481732
Is that you Melan?
You two enjoy sucking each other off?

>>98481728
>2e is OSR according to what he wrote five years ago.
>STILL not realizing that the point is he's misinterpreting the blog posts and his sophistic reinterpretation is never what they meant
Unbelievable. Autism Hall of Fame material here.

File: images.jpg (58 KB, 445x449)

58 KB JPG

>>98481664
>>98481728
>>98481741

Amazing levels of cope, we'll have to call it gigacope

>>98481728
>>98481741
>>98481748
Kek, this is some high quality helpless flailing
Low quality? Whatever, you know what I mean. Feeble but very funny

>>98481732
>It's fucking hilarious that he owned you
Revealing that the only sources you guys have are each other is an incredibly dumb move, and basically undermines the entirety of any point in pointing at Simulacrum as having any sort of credibility.

When the guy's own blogpost is used to so successfully argue his own case against himself that he has to go and change it, is there any better admission of defeat?

>>98481769
Buddy, you just had the Annie Hall Marshall McLuhan scene happen to you, and now you're trying to argue that McLuhan is the one who knows nothing about his own work.

Just take the L. this is not going to get any better and you are not going to be able to turn this around. You've lost here, you've lost in /osrg/, your attempt to change the definition of OSR has failed completely. Maybe you should sign up for RPG.net. It might be more your speed.

>>98481784
>the Annie Hall Marshall McLuhan scene

lol

You can tell by his desperate spam posting on the topic how much this has gotten to him. I guess it's back to chanting "Matt Finch Matt Finch Matt Finch" for him.

>>98481769
>so successfully argue
This can't be what it actually looks like even in your imagination, can it? There's no way you're that much of a grandiose narcissist.

Here's what actually happened:
• Some anon posts a link to a well researched history of the OSR that got praised by pretty much everyone who was there at the time
• You sperg out about it because it disproves your crazy home-deluded version of events
• You desperately try to reinterpret what it says to agree with you
• The guy who wrote it leaves you a personal message to say that your reinterpretation is bullshit
• Your dick falls off our of outrage and in desperation you start throwing insults and cobbling together half-built accusations of bias

At no time did you successfully argue anything or prove anything to anybody. Your shit got caved in, and when you tried to salvage that, it got caved in again. You won't be able to convince anybody else that this wasn't what happened.

>>98481753
>the point is he's misinterpreting the blog posts
We're looking at someone who's own blog posts betray him. Facts work against him.
We're at a point where he can't even deny 2e is OSR, because he's even included For Gold&Glory among the OSR titles.

He can say whatever he wants about 2e not being "old school", largely because it wouldn't be even the first out of a hundred things he's wrong about. We can basically throw his entire blog into the woodchipper, because him being little more than one of the handful of surviving cultists here explains so much about why you are so fucking stupid. If the only people you guys listen to are other people in your attempt at creating an echo chamber, of course you're going to be retarded.

>>98481807
>• You sperg out about it because it disproves your crazy home-deluded version of events

That's the best part. For years he tried to ignore the series or pass it off, only to realize that it was never going away and so he suddenly switched to this ridiculous "if I ignore the main message and creatively reinterpret select passages of the rest, I'm home free", and it's bitten him in the ass in the best possible way. You're going to see so much seething from him on this. Hell, you already have.

I mean, you still can't expect true change from an insane schizo, but it's kind of fun to have to watch ownage so strong that even a schizo is forced to adjust his worldview in realtime. People could be writing papers on this.

File: attempt.jpg (20 KB, 525x503)

20 KB JPG

>>98481810
KEK

>>98481810
>muh echo chamber
You do realize that Simulacrum's OSR history is basically the go-to standard history everyone uses? Like, even the OSR Reddit considers it authoritative.

>>98481824
Yeah I know, he only bothered to even try to read it last week, and he's clearly just skimmed it for bits he could distort rather than internalizing the entire thing and understanding the gist of it.

I have to admit I kinda don't understand why he's 800-tupling down on malding loudly about /osrg/ though, instead of just leaving and writing his schizo screeds somewhere else. I really don't get what he thinks is in it for him that makes it worth it to his diseased mind.

>>98481807
>Some anon posts a link to a well researched history of the OSR
Wrong. It's an opinion piece on a blog, written by a guy with an agenda. Every conclusion he tries to make is flawed, largely because most of his definitions are either twisted beyond recognition or just flat-out wrong.

>You sperg out about it because it disproves your crazy home-deluded version of events
It doesn't disprove anything and can't even be taken seriously, and more importantly can't even argue that 2e is not OSR. He can be wrong about all the other stuff he's wrong about, but considering even he can't say 2e is not OSR, it seems like your crusade to exclude it from OSR discussion is pretty much doomed to fail.

• You desperately try to reinterpret what it says to agree with you
If For Gold & Glory is OSR, it's essentially impossible to argue 2e is not.

>The guy who wrote it leaves you a personal message to say that your reinterpretation is bullshit
The guy who wrote it admits that he's part of the clique trying to rewrite history here. He's an agenda-oriented troll who's been cast out from all other websites and all that's left for him is now being the punching bag of the people on 4chan, with even his own blog posts undermining his efforts.

>Your dick falls off our of outrage and in desperation you start throwing insults and cobbling together half-built accusations of bias
If the only people you can find that agree with you are yourselves, you're basically fucked beyond belief.

>>98481844
See >>98481826

>>98481844
>He's an agenda-oriented troll who's been cast out from all other websites
lmao
do you actually think that just claiming this can make it true? i'm not gonna expose that dude to your crazy stalking but you couldn't be further from the truth

>>98481248
>only one person
lel, eat shit, fishfag.
no one gives a fuck what melon or skerples or finch or fucking anyone says.
fuck off.

>>98481634
this much kvetching over a jpg?
BTFO KWAB

>>98481594
holy fucking SHIT
fishfag has just had his asshole turned inside out

>>98481875
lol, fishfag has been bitching about fake news Simulacrum for so long that I'm surprised it took this long for something like this to happen. I'm glad that he acknowledges the authority of the articles and author now, though, as he did repeatedly in this thread.

File: 1768693322748955.png (13 KB, 861x121)

13 KB PNG

>>98481894
feels good to have been the guy lmao

>>98481840
>Like, even the OSR Reddit considers it authoritative.
Not at all. Largely because OSR doesn't really have authorities. Certainly not authorities who are just bloggers.

As a source of information, he's got a lot of the objective facts correct, but his interpretation of almost all those facts is often hilariously wrong, and he's grossly exaggerating the importance of various things with little to no evidence to actually support himself. He's even got to do a whole lot of "No True Scotsman" to try and turn objective facts into subjective ones. And, almost all of his subjective ideas are wrong. He's amazingly wrong about the subjective "style" of adventures and seems to have been performing a lot of selective omissions and agenda-oriented generalizations, stuff that's often only blatantly obvious if you already have a considerable amount of experience with the wide scope of modules.

But, a wannabe-blogger being wrong about history is hardly note-worthy. People are allowed to be wrong on the internet. The fun thing though is that even though he's wrong about quite a lot and is so hilariously biased that he's come out as being one of the trolls trying to use 4chan as the last place where their ridiculously stupid ideas can exist without being corrected by the mountain of evidence that they're wrong, even he can't say that 2e is not OSR.

>>98481906
>incredible amounts of copium

>>98481894
>>98481898
Simulacrum updated it to say it's not 'old school', not OSR.

>>98481856
Where else can you go to use your flawed definition of OSR that omits 2e? Not even Simulacrum can omit 2e from his definition.

>>98481918
>copium continues

>>98481741
>when ur idols become ur rivals
KEK
you
got
REKT

>>98481927
>when you have to cite yourself, and your citation still ends up proving you wrong

lmao

Try dodging this again.
>If For Gold & Glory is OSR, it's essentially impossible to argue 2e is not.

File: 150c85b45d415c3e0cc29327b(...).jpg (466 KB, 1200x1960)

466 KB JPG

There is an TSR-era image of two wizards using a magical computer. It's not a real-world computer, but they are essentially using it like one. I think they are reading a forum or checking an email or something like that. Does anyone know the artist for the image I am talking about? I know it's been posted on /tg/ before, someone out here must know what I am referring to.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-09 231322.png (1.8 MB, 1356x1083)

1.8 MB PNG

>>98482033
I vaguely remembered a wizard looking at a large computer monitor, but it turns out it was at a spaceship window.

File: il_1588xN.3059699469_nn7l.png (5.27 MB, 1588x2076)

5.27 MB PNG

>>98482033
David Mattingly?

>>98481594
>>98481927
Despite attempts to drown this series of events, this continues to be beyond hilarious.

>>98482088
>when you have to cite yourself, and your citation still ends up proving you wrong

lmao

Try dodging this again.
>If For Gold & Glory is OSR, it's essentially impossible to argue 2e is not.

>>98481594
>We can only find two guys who actually agree with the position that /osrg/ stakes as widely agreed-upon truth, and we're going to keep posting their blog posts like they're any kind of authority
>Turns out both the guys we post to back up our claims can be traced back to posting on /osrg/
>One of us is going to try to get a cheap gotcha in by making edits that can be easily followed on the Wayback Machine, in the process definitely proving this to be the case, and also by posting slurs on a blog that can be easily traced to his professional identity
Jesus, you guys are as retarded as you are dishonest lmao

>>98482090
>>98482129
>desperate fishfag copium continues

>>98482129
I'm endlessly surprised by just how genuinely stupid they are. I know they're dumb, but some of the moves they make are just too dumb for words.

Like the time the guy making the falseflag versions of the Open OSR threads included the (you) to his link to the /osrg/, pinning him as the guy making both.

Now, we've got Simulacrum revealing that their citations are circular. I knew that there weren't that many of these guys, but having to try and quote each other is one pathetic last resort. And, even with that he still can't stop his own blog post from confirming 2e is OSR.

>>98482198
>absolute desperation over yet another humiliation in a long list of humilations

>>98482221
>ineffective gaslighting from a moron who misplayed badly

lmao

Try dodging this again.
>If For Gold & Glory is OSR, it's essentially impossible to argue 2e is not.

>>98481906
>behold my XXL canister of industrial strength copium
lmao

>>98481934
>>98482090
>>98482235
>I'll just post the same thing over and over, maybe that way they won't notice my asshole is prolapsed
The bleeding is obvious, Fishfag.

>>98482248
>I-I'm not losing, I'm winning, how could i not be? I'm right, and fishfag is wrong.

>>98482198
>I knew that there weren't that many of these guys
>t. The lone troll trying to derail /osrg/ and samefagging hard to make it look like there's more than one of him

>>98482221
>>98482241
>>98482248
Buddy, it's not gonna work.

You gotta do better than just cry "U MAD U MAD U MAD?!?" when you've made a misplay that bad.

>>98482260
>>98482270
>I'd better try the ol' "no u", that never fails!
kek

>>98482260
>I'm right, and fishfag is wrong.
Correct! Glad you've finally admitted that this is how it is: 2e is not OSR, and it never has been. Glad we've cleared this up! Now I hope you won't ever post a hijack attempt or fake schizo OSR timeline again.

>>98482270
absolute lol, you beautiful lunatic, you

>>98482268
I'm not the person who has to cite himself to find people who agree with me lmao.
And, I can swear on everything I hold dear, you are up against more than one person.
Kinda understand why you're trying so hard to pretend there's only one person against you, because there can't be that many of you if you have to try and quote yourselves as sources.

>>98482285
>2e is not OSR, and it never has been.

lmao

Try dodging this again.
>If For Gold & Glory is OSR, it's essentially impossible to argue 2e is not.

>>98482299
Hi fishfag

>>98482221
Buddy, this shit only works so long as you can maintain the plausible deniability that your views come from outside sources. You need that to show that the no 2e shit isn't just a justification to claim squatters rights over a general. All you've proven here is a display that you have turned /osrg/ into a circlejerk for you and your Discord buttbuddies to shill your blogs.

>>98482315
Hi fishfriend

>>98482321
Sure, whatever you say. I think you'll find that fishfag, who is definitely not you, finds that the blog is very authoritative.
>>98481173

>>98482321
>a circlejerk
The likelihood of this being literal has increased.

>>98482335
Simulacrum includes For Gold&Glory as being part of OSR, so it's impossible to argue 2e is not OSR.

File: autarch.png (36 KB, 401x237)

36 KB PNG

>>98482344
it is.

>>98482350
Give it a bit, he'll edit that post too lmao

>https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html

the part about fishfag was removed.

File: 1766711076374196.png (22 KB, 983x126)

22 KB PNG

>>98481934
2e is not osr and osrg does not claim FGG is osr.
Fuck off, fishfag
KWABOTY

File: 1768139903074525.png (177 KB, 562x355)

177 KB PNG

>>98482198
>fishfag uses simulacrum as a direct citation for 2e being osr
>simulacrum personally btfos him that 2e is not osr
>fishfag declares victory
waow

File: zrsO5PK.jpg (139 KB, 1280x720)

139 KB JPG

>>98482321
>Buddy, this shit only works so long as you can maintain the plausible deniability that your views come from outside sources.
They lost plausible deniability ages ago, if they ever had it. They've just been denying things out-of-hand without any regards to how ridiculous they look largely because they imagine that as long as they don't have to admit they're wrong, they can continue to be wrong forever.

Now they've sailed past implausible deniability and continued beyond unbelievable lies and are now deep in "Are-you-squidding-me" territory.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-10 012915.png (123 KB, 1195x435)

123 KB PNG

>>98482478
>>98482487

Sorry, but you lose.

>>98482491
>goes crying to the mods
>gets personally btfo by the mods
>declares victory
>cites simulacrum
>gets personally btfo by simulacrum
>declares victory

when is this retard gonna learn his lesson?

>>98482500
for the millionth time: we don't give a single fuck what any blog or author says.

2e is not osr, never was, never will be.

try crying to the mods again lmoa

>>98482501
Sim, no one is impressed you edited your blog, especially because you didn't edit it to anything meaningful, just rage at your bogeyman while declaring 2e is not "old school" but being unable to declare it's not "OSR", the true point of contention.

Go on. Edit it so it says 2e is not OSR, and don't forget to also remove For Gold&Glory.
Do it, coward.

>>98482501
He won't. He's going to get personally BTFO by God, go to hell, and declare victory.

>>98482509
>said they're right
>got btfo'd
>it doesn't matter because the mods side with us
every time. all they have is an appeal to authority.

and to my fellow fishfags. I've noticed our side also uses this fallacy. you should really stop doing that.

>>98482509
Bruh.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98426331/#q98456450

The only reason we're even talking about how Sim thinks 2e is OSR is because someone tried to use him as a...
...lol....
..."clear, definitive offsite resource".

...without realizing that Sim confirmed 2e is OSR. And also wasn't offsite. And certainly doesn't qualify as clear, definitive, or even a resource.

Lets bake some noodles even more.
>a retroclone can be of 2nd ed and osr even if 2nd ed ad&d is not
lol

>>98482501
He can't learn, he's demonstrably incapable of it.

>>98482321
>Buddy, this shit only works so long as you can maintain the plausible deniability that your views come from outside sources.
>You need outside sources to confirm your internal views that reject outside sources because I say so!
lmao no

>>98482529
It's not an appeal to authority, It's using their own appeals to authority against them.
There should be something genuinely humbling about trying to present OSRIC as a definitive example of what OSR is about, only to have Matt Finch say "2e is OSR."
Same thing with pretending Simulacrum is some kind of authority, only for him to also agree that 2e is OSR.

OSR has no authorities, has always been decentralized, and it's hard to even describe it as a single, continuous movement and not different groups at different times (and even often operating simultaneously but independently), with each acting with different motivations and goals and definitions.

While checking the claim that Simulacrum was regarded as anything more than just some dimwit blogger, I found a lot of people actually suggesting https://traversefantasy.blogspot.com/2022/06/the-osr-should-die.html 's history instead, and giving it the glance over it has lots of trouble spots (a few opinions are given way too much prevalence), but it seems like a much fairer and clearer understanding of the OSR, and one that goes along with what can still be found on dragonsfoot.

That's the fundamental problem with Simulacrum. His revisionist history and argument will never be able to survive as long as dragonsfoot persists and presents a completely different story than the one he's trying to tell, and his ideas about what the OSR is or should be don't really survive long when up against reality.

>>98482519
>cite simulacrum as a source
>get btfo by him immediately after
kwab
>>98482529
no, "it doesn't matter because the mods side with us"
is completely wrong. whats more accurate is "You, dont matter, because the mods told you to fuck off"

File: 1759897334946519.png (66 KB, 1211x151)

66 KB PNG

>>98482530
>without realizing that Sim confirmed 2e is OSR
uhhh

>>98482583
>There should be something genuinely humbling about trying to present OSRIC as a definitive example of what OSR is about, only to have Matt Finch say "2e is OSR."
Don't care what matt finsch says.
This one's hard for you, you have an innate need to have a daddy tell you the thing you want.
Even the mods told you to fuck off.

>>98482585
That's not what happened though.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98426331/#q98456450

Sim tried to use himself as a source (lol), it was pointed out that he agreed that 2e is OSR, and he got so upset about that he fucked up by editing his blog to say 2e is not 'old school' (important that he didn't say it wasn't 'OSR' though, something he couldn't say considering he even included a 2e retroclone in his list of OSR games), and ended up revealing that your circlejerk is so much smaller than anyone had even anticipated, where you have to use yourselves as sources while claiming you are "clear, definitive offsite resources." (lol)

That's pretty fucking funny.

>>98482587

>>98482500 is from that same blog.

>>98482599
... do you think everyone is whoever your current boogieman is? Like in the thread with you now?
How many of the same troll who is also gang stalking you do you think there are?

>>98482537
>>98482603

>>98482604
Every time I imagine a number, new evidence comes in to demonstrate that you guys put a lot of effort into trying to make yourselves look like there's more of you than there actually are only to fuck up and reveal you're a very tiny circlejerk at best.

At the point where your "offsite resources" are just your own blogs is the point where it looks like you guys are really struggling to find anyone that agrees with you. Especially when even your own blogs confirm 2e is OSR.

>>98482583
ok i stand corrected.

File: lol.png (25 KB, 778x205)

25 KB PNG

>>98482583
>His revisionist history and argument will never be able to survive as long as dragonsfoot persists

There's literally a moderator from Dragonsfoot in the blog comments saying "yes, this history is correct", you absolute idiot.

I am continually astounded at your ability to shove your foot in your mouth. Just an endless ability to fail and then desperately flail about with 400 samefagged I'm not owned posts.

No one is ever going to let you forget that your own "source" personally told you to get fucked. Although, added to the already-enormous pile of your humiliations, I guess it barely sticks out.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-10 025206.png (174 KB, 1423x595)

174 KB PNG

>>98482632
Is that some new "authority" that we're going to discover also agrees that 2e is OSR?
Maybe you should give up on that strategy already, it's not working out for you.

>There's literally a moderator from Dragonsfoot in the blog comments saying "yes, this history is correct", you absolute idiot.

That's not what he said. He said he enjoyed it and that it was well researched and well-written. The first claim is purely subjective, the second is arguable and in many cases it's demonstrably biased, and the third is close to being objectively untrue. He might have liked it and agreed with a lot of it, but that doesn't actually make it true.

And, funnily enough, we have Gnarely Bones posts to go through. Fun!

https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38355

Right from the get go, here's a real fun one. It's his point of view of the OSR, and, wouldn't you know it, he is firmly, and I mean FIRMLY placing 2e not just in the OSR category, but trying to declare that all "clones" should not be considered "true" OSR.

Buddy, what are you even doing here?

>>98482632
>No one is ever going to let you forget that your own "source" personally told you to get fucked.
Sim was your source, friend.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98426331/#q98456450

And, funnily enough, he agrees that 2e is OSR, until he revises his blog to say otherwise. Hell, he even thinks a clone of 2e like FG&G is OSR, and that's more than mr. grumpy-pants Gnarely Bones is willing to say (though Gnarely does say 2e is OSR).

>Although, added to the already-enormous pile of your humiliations
It's really funny that you think that you can still twist this in your favor somehow.

>>98482632
You are the one who quoted him as a source

>>98463843
>temple keeps sinking into the bog.
>local people build new temple to new god on top of the old one.
>been doing this for hundreds of years.
>going deeper into the temple catacombs reveals angrier, more ancient, forgotten primal gods.
>less logical, more dangerous, unnatural layouts as it gets deeper.
Riiiiiiiipping this idea.

File: 68c972601b58dde6bf73c382f(...).jpg (161 KB, 1000x1500)

161 KB JPG

>>98482785
>going deeper into the temple catacombs reveals angrier, more ancient, forgotten primal gods.
Their cultists should be bigger and bigger hipsters the deeper you go.
>"Who do I worship? You've probably never heard of them, they're pretty underground."

>>98481594
>The second paragraph in particular is rather striking.
can you quote that rather striking second paragraph?
I think you messed up your reference anon
I take it all the replies agreeing with you and going "ZAP LMAO" is just relentless samefagging because were they actual people they would open the link and see that you messed up

>>98481687
>check link and referenced paragraph, it's not even relevant to the discussion
>osrgtrolls go "ZAP ZAP LMAO ZEISTY LOL" for some reason
>there is talk about edited blogpost
Oh now I get it

so the simulacrum dude is literally posting a link to his own blog as an appeal to authority whenever he is arguing online?
also that's a pretty weird self-dox

>>98481840
>You do realize that Simulacrum's OSR history is basically the go-to standard history everyone uses?
STFU retard no one thinks that about your stupid blog lol

File: Bold-Strategy-Cotton.gif (1.25 MB, 471x200)

1.25 MB GIF

>>98482866
>so the simulacrum dude is literally posting a link to his own blog as an appeal to authority whenever he is arguing online?
To be fair, it's a bold move.
Stupid and inevitably catastrophic, but bold.

>>98482603
brutal cope lmao, he literally told you to fuck off

>>98482632
no
one
gives
a
fuck
what
other
websites
say

fuck
off
fishfag

>>98482903
>fishfag cites a blog
>blog directly calls him out, telling him he is wrong
>fishfag declares victory
fuck off

>>98482920
>just continuing to try to outright lie to everyone because you think people can't read a few posts above yours

You seem upset. I'd be too, if I had fucked up as badly as you.

>>98482925
Lie? About what?
Did you not cite simulacrum as a "2e is OSR" blog?

Did simulacrum not immediately after, declare you wrong and retarded?

Point out the specific lie being told, fishfag.

>>98482925
You got so assmangled by your own source that your only resort is "no u"?
Nuclear cope levels

>>98482933
Go read above, no point in repeating it a hundred times to you.

>>98482599

>>98482942
You definitely seem to just be rapid spamming now in hopes that you can bury how badly you fucked up.

File: 9713451a-cd32-413c-ad70-e(...).png (2.22 MB, 1024x1536)

2.22 MB PNG

Sim, if you're still reading this thread, that was the most aggressively, violently based thing I've seen anyone do on this hellsite in a long time.
Well done King, sit comfortably under that god damn crown of yours.

>>98482920
as far as I understand the only reason anyone cited the blog apart from those who did it regularly is to reveal the inconsistencies within that "school of thought"

no one actually holds some literally who blog as any authority apart from you

now I understand you lads desperately need some sort of dopamine rush for your otherwise empty and uneventful lives
for the rest of us it really is just a *shrug*-ok-who-cares moment
at most you've exposed to care about this petty rivalry a bit to much

anyway I wanted to return to the subject of megadungeons being ass
>>98480160
returning to TFP "review", there are basically 2 things he praised the book for
- the layout tricks to at least try to make the maps useful for the GM (separate keys for level sections is a neat idea ngl)
- ecology making sense through history

both are aimed at the GM and are just not playing material
chances are the players will not care about that history, and they will not see your map layout
It seems to me the idea of any "hardcore" OSR fan being obligated to at least want to run some pre-written megadungeon is kinda a meme of a certain OSR era

in practice every single review I've seen authored by people who actually had to run or play through those for any substantial amount of time range from pure hate to mild disgust

which brings me to my final thought for this topic
who the fuck OK'd adventure "reviews" that are based only on reading through the book?
why is the question
>so you didn't play through the entire thing?
isn't the default in the comments?
I wish I knew

>>98482612
>your "offsite resource"
>every time I imagine a number
>find anyone that agrees with you
You don't get it at all.
You come here to be a schizo.
None of us are a cable.
We just don't give a fuck what you think.

>>98483462
>We just don't give a fuck what you think.
nta but that's a hard thing to sell considering your behavior

>>98483291
>no one actually holds some literally who blog as any authority apart from you
ironic

>>98483488
>sell
>thinks people are here to convince you of anything
Fish, we're here to laugh at you.
You decided to come back to /osrg/ to troll when the one anon posting about games, not you, in your wannabe general cancelled their game.
Right there. >>98477340
You just think everyone's the same person because they all see your bullshit.

>>98483588
I wonder if he'll start claiming literally everyone is Sim going forward now he has an actual face to put his seething towards.

>>98482866
>>osrgtrolls go "ZAP ZAP LMAO ZEISTY LOL" for some reason
That level of samefagging is really unique to that guy.

>>98483646
Which guy? Can you link all their posts?

>>98483332
>so you didn't play through the entire thing?
Megadungeons are not meant to be played in their entirety. The part that's cool about them is that while smaller dungeons might provide a fairly uniform and universal experience, every run through a Megadungeon is going to be rather unique, with a single decision to go down a left corridor instead of a right potentially leading to completely different rooms being explored. One party might end up going to a completely different side of a map compared to what another might.

Freedom, self-determination, and unique, one-of-a-kind experiences are the strong points of a megadungeon, making them very much in line with a lot of what people find appealing with OSR to begin with.

>>98482949
>>98482946
>I'm not the one who messed up, you are!!
Explain in very explicit terms exactly what the nature of the fuck up was, because until you provide some type of evidence, everybody can see how badly you bumbled the simulacrum posting.

>>98483695
NTA, but can you not read? >>98482946

>>98482583
>There should be something genuinely humbling about trying to present OSRIC as a definitive example of what OSR is about, only to have Matt Finch say "2e is OSR."
There's literally no connection between those two things. Why would you think there is? OSRIC could have been made by Hitler and it would still be the first OSR game, there's nothing about gassing Jews or 2e being good *in the actual game* or its following that made modules for it, retard.

>>98482583
>Same thing with pretending Simulacrum is some kind of authority, only for him to also agree that 2e is OSR.
...Wait, are you STILL trying to claim that Simulacrum says 2e is OSR after he *told you personally* that it isn't? Just bald-faced outright denial of how hard you got rekt? Seriously? That's all you've got?

File: Capture.png (45 KB, 1128x170)

45 KB PNG

Oh no fishsisters what are we gonna do?!?!?!!?!

ky SacredCow you stupid faggot

>It's another Fishfag gets gangraped only to drag itself up from the cumpuddle and go "You're all gay actually, making me the winner"
One small problem, you have to be a person for it to count as gay. Subhumans don't count.

>>98482671
>mentions 2e twice
>first is in the context of it already having a segregated subforum on DF
>second is the following sentence:

>For me, if I want to play 1E, I just play 1E. My hardbacks are still in great shape (except both of my UAs, of course. Symbolic, that). I often find myself having a deja vu moment to 1990 and seeing people getting into this weird 2E thing and saying to myself, "I don't get it."

>to Fishfag, this is "FIRMLY placing 2e in the OSR category"
Either you're actually, literally neurologically incapable of parsing human speech or your desperation has gone absolutely of the rails. You're grasping at the thinnest, brittlest straws imaginable.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-10 100228.png (183 KB, 1146x354)

183 KB PNG

>>98483727
When looking at what kind of person could be called an authority on OSR, the kind of credentials Matt Finch has in your worldview are pretty much unmatched. Worked on C&C, created OSRIC, created S&W, even helped out enough to get credited on LL.

Hell, even Simulacrum cites him several times.

If you want to play a game of Appeal to Authorities, there's probably no one you could name who has a more substantial credentials, and his views certainly carry more weight than... "some bloggers," especially when those bloggers do things like frequently cite Matt Finch.

>>98483291
>at most you've exposed to care about this petty rivalry a bit to much
>t. guy who spends all his free time raging because he's misunderstood a TTRPG definition

>>98483754
Another great example right there of how someone can make an excellent game but still have retard takes. It's funny thought because this shows that OSR players broadly hate 2e, and Macris considers that to be the norm (which he doesn't get).

>>98483774
>>first is in the context of it already having a segregated subforum on DF
He places it in the same context as 1e and Classic D&D, you dunce, ie. as original "OOP D&D" (Out-of-Print, with Gnarley working under the idea that OSR was about 'getting the games back into print.")

That's pretty firmly in the OSR category. It's clear he prefers 1e over 2e, but that's didn't stop him from including 2e in the OSR.

>>98482583
>I found a lot of people actually suggesting https://traversefantasy.blogspot.com/2022/06/the-osr-should-die.html 's history instead
>MY source is a tranny who writes about "Freudomarxism" and created the OD&D clone with a colonialist rant about Gygax and Arneson hidden in the endpapers! Checkmate, chuds!!!!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

>>98483737
You cannot say FG&G is OSR without admitting 2e is OSR.

And, Sim only edited his page to say 2e wasn't "old school." That's not quite the same thing as saying it's not OSR, especially because he can't say it's not OSR if FG&G is, so he'd have to edit that too to remove the blatant logical fallacy.

Like if you said "I'm not gay" but you continued to suck dick like you do, you'd still be gay.

>>98483808
>He places it in the same context as 1e and Classic D&D
No he doesn't. Again, desperate cope or actual brain damage? He's talking 1e, 1e, 1e, 1e, then he brings up 2e ONLY in the context of explaining why he's opposed to further subfora, then at the end he mentions 2e again as an unnecessary grotesquery that he already rejected in 1989.

In "OOP D&D" he clearly does NOT include 2e. He even enumerates what he means:
>OSRIC recreated AD&D, why not recreate BECMI? Or Moldvay? Or OD&D? Why not indeed?

This bizarre habit you have of trying to twist people's writing with sophisms is really going overboard. I know you've always been like this ever since you tried to contort the /osrg/ OP into saying the opposite of what it actually says, but between that Simulacrum denialism and this, you seem to be getting worse. Ask your psychiatrist to up your dose, bro.

>>98483821
>MY source
Not mine, but the one people were recommending over Simulacrum's history. That means more people would rather listen to just about anyone else over you.

>>98483841
See what I mean? These are some absolutely demented contortions and strawgrasping. If an edition isn't old-school, it clearly cannot be part of the Old School Revival, the OSR. Thus, its clones are obviously also not OSR. Conclusion: Simulacrum does not consider FG&G OSR. You are misreading when you think he's classified it as such. This is how normal inference works. You've managed to turn the whole syllogism on its head, claiming that "FG&G is OSR" is somehow an immovable object and therefore some sort of paradox or gap is created when 2e is firmly stated to not be old-school. A sensible person would conclude here that he is mistaken about FG&G, and has misunderstood the writer. The fact that you don't is a sign of clear mental illness.

>>98483850
LMAO
You said yourself that you thought the Freudomarxist troonstory of the OSR was better! Do you want me to quote you?

>giving it the glance over it has lots of trouble spots (a few opinions are given way too much prevalence), but it seems like a much fairer and clearer understanding of the OSR, and one that goes along with what can still be found on dragonsfoot

Wait... given your insistence that everyone posting Simulacrum's autoritative OSR history must be him... ARE you that FMC tranny? You're certainly crazy enough.

>>98483844
>No he doesn't
Yes, he does.

>he brings up 2e ONLY in the context of explaining why he's opposed to further subfora,

He brings it up every time he says OOP D&D. he mentions it individually as often as he brings up "classic" D&D (ie. OD&D), in literally the same context, as one of the original OOP D&Ds.

>>98483877
Hoooooly shit.

>He brings it up every time he says OOP D&D.
So, in spite of the fact hat he makes explicitly clear what he includes in that umbrella, in spite of him expressing his distaste for 2e at the end of the post, you've fantasized 2e into that term and therefore he must be firmly agreeing with you?

Fishfag, your schizo delusions are totally off the rails. Unironically get help. This shit isn't normal.

>>98483861
This is some amazing mental gymnastics. Amazing in the sense you're trying to do a dozen flips but just sort of driving your face into the ground.

> If an edition isn't old-school, it clearly cannot be part of the Old School Revival, the OSR.
Yes.
> Thus, its clones are obviously also not OSR.
That would follow if he believed it wasn't OSR, yes. Though, that does mean if the clones are OSR, that would mean the original must be.
>Conclusion: Simulacrum does not consider FG&G OSR.
That would have to be the case to prevent a paradox. Except >>98482500
Working from him including FG&G not just as a retroclone, but as a TRUE retroclone, and as part of the "early period of the OSR", it's pretty clear he considers FG&G to be OSR, which in turn means that 2e must also be OSR in order to resolve to logical issues his own words present.

So, we've got a situation where a troll wrote something five years ago, failed to appreciate what his own words logically meant, and has presented a paradox where 2e is not old school, but FG&G is OSR.

So, he could either admit 2e is OSR, or he could continue with his claim that it's not but also remove FG&G from his list of true retroclones, thus distancing him even further from reality.

>>98483899
Are you genuinely stupid?
Him not liking 2e doesn't stop him from including it in the OSR.

>So, in spite of the fact hat he makes explicitly clear what he includes in that umbrella,
Yes, he's including 1e, Classic and 2e in OOP D&D, probably because they were Out-of-Print D&D. No mental gymnastics required.

>>98483911
>Though, that does mean if the clones are OSR, that would mean the original must be.
And you have a clear, unambiguous statement that he does not consider the original OSR. Therefore the clones cannot be, and you are misunderstanding something.

>Working from him including FG&G not just as a retroclone, but as a TRUE retroclone
It's a true (high-accuracy) retroclone of 2e, which is not OSR.

> it's pretty clear he considers FG&G to be OSR
Bizarre non-sequitur statement. This is also an inference you're making, which is against his clear and unambiguous statement that 2e is not OSR. The inference is weaker than the fact, thus you must admit that it is erroneous.

>a bunch of weird suicide-vest schizo demands
Actually, he doesn't need to do anything at all that an insane person on the internet says. Crazy, I know!

>>98483922
>Yes, he's including 1e, Classic and 2e in OOP D&D
No, listen, I'm not joking around. This isn't normal. Your brain isn't supposed to work this way. You unironically need help. This goes way beyond some hikki speg trying desperately to score a point he lost years ago. You need actual medical assistance, dude.

>>98483933
See, here's the problem. You can't resolve the paradox because, in no uncertain terms, he is including FG&G in the early period of the OSR as part of one of two initial paths, placing it among the true retroclones.

You're trying to resolve it by saying FG&G is not part of the OSR, yet he's still including it in his list of OSR games, and even giving it top-shelf status among the other True retroclones. Were it just a clone or a copy of an older n0n-OSR game, there would be no need to include it in his list.

If a paradox is presented, and one side of the paradox is clearly an agenda-oriented falsehood and the other is substantiated by facts, the agenda-oriented falsehood is the one to be dismissed. And, that means in the face of the fact that FG&G is a true retroclone included in the list of OSR games, that would mean that 2e is OSR and the claim that it isn't is the one in error. Until you can scrub FG&G's existence and it from being so well understood to be OSR that even Simulacrum agrees it is as such, you can't say 2e is not OSR without creating a paradox.

>>98483965
None of those anons.

You've never addressed that 2nd ed can be excluded from "being osr' while a retroclone can be included.

In actuality none of the original games are OSR. They can be used as basis for OSR play, but are not in and of themselves osr games. There's a great deal of discussion as to how the majority of play of them wasn't done in an OSR manner, Basic and the 1st edition of AD&D have the most inclination and overlap with OSR play but its not like they're made just for it and looking at dragon magazine articles, modules and other items of the time you can see it was not primarily done that way.

You keep thinking there's some secret gottcha own that will let you into the cool kids club and its a bit fucked you've never understood what it was and don't play any of the games at all.

>>98483922
None of them are out of print.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-10 at (...).png (230 KB, 837x723)

230 KB PNG

>>98483936
That's a lot of words to say "I can't argue against what you presented, so I'll just shitpost inanely."
Give his post another read through.

He's not saying 1e is the only OSR game, or the only OOP edition either.
And, he's not being obtuse. Out-of-Print D&D is Out-of-Print D&D, ie. all editions that were out of print, ie. all editions prior to 3e.

His whole post is complaining about the proliferation of clones and how they've grown into their own games instead of just enabling further discussion of the original OOPs.

And, he reinforces that with
>"Imagine coming to DF's Dungeons & Dragons forum and finding, beside the familiar 1E, Classic and 2E sub-fora,"
as one side, followed by
>new sub-fora for "BFRPG," "ORSIC," "Labyrith Lord," "Swords & Wizardry," "Mazes & Minotaurs," "Spellcraft & Swordplay," "Dangers & Dweomers," "Mages & Mi-go"
as an unwelcome hypothetical expansion.

>>98483965
>Until you can scrub FG&G's existence and it from being so well understood to be OSR that even Simulacrum agrees it is as such
Bro, barely anybody even knows it exists. Nobody plays it. ACKS outsold it by orders of magnitude. It's not "so well understood to be OSR", it's an irrelevance. The fact that you have nothing better to latch your bizarro logic on to is a admission of defeat in itself.

>>98484015
But they were at the time. Hence the file-IP-off OSRIC-type retroclones.

>>98484144
Sure, so they're not out of print.

>>98484006
>You've never addressed that 2nd ed can be excluded from "being osr' while a retroclone can be included.

Probably because that's just silly and everyone understands that.

>In actuality none of the original games are OSR.
Funny enough, G. Bones is saying the opposite, where games like OSRIC are not OSR, because their only purpose of the Old School Revival was to make it possible to print material for the original Old School games (and encourage discussion of the originals) and were not supposed to really exist as independent games themselves. He's not really right, but it's interesting how he can present a completely opposite definition than the one you're trying to present.

You're both only half right. The original games are OSR, and their clones are OSR.

>>98484135
Buddy, little is not zero, and it's apparently important enough that it warranted Simulacrum including it in his list of OSR games.

Also, remember that FG&G didn't sell that well because official 2e proper is still the primary 2e game, and when WotC made it (and the other original games) available for PoD, it easily maxed out the Drivethru ranking system.

>>98484191
Oh you don't address it because you can't.

Bad show. Can be =/= is.

>>98484160
Yep. They are not currently out-of-print.

...

...What point were you hoping to make?

>>98484135
>ACKS outsold it by orders of magnitude.

This is an interesting comparison to when fish was set on ACKS not counting because it was unpopular.

>>98484216
Right, so ACKS must be osr being derived from Basic, which also maxed out the ranking system.

Glad we agree.

>>98484099
>That's a lot of words to say "I can't argue against what you presented, so I'll just shitpost inanely."
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that you need actual neuropsychiatric help and medication. Hyperconfabulation is a trait of a number of severe neurological disorders. I'm not going to dunk on you any more, the other anons are happy to do that apparently, but I'm not comfortable baiting the clinically insane. Your stereotypical speg is one thing, this is something else.

>>98484231
I'll wait for you to figure it out. Might take some time and perspective.

Think of it like a puzzle. :)

>>98484220
Do you really need me to explain why 2e can't be excluded while its retroclone is included?

Largely it's because the primary concern here is game discussion. Whether you're talking about a game or its clone is largely incidental, particularly when we're talking about clones made so that material (like adventures) for the original could be used.

If you agree and say FG&G is OSR, then that's fine. It means people who want to discuss Dark Sun or kits or the Battlesystem or anything else in 2e can just frame things as them porting those over into FG&G. And using some houserules to make FG&G even more like 2e. And just playing and discussng 2e.

That's kind of what G. Bones thought OSRIC was supposed to be. A transparent effort to make stuff for 1e and play 1e stuff and to discuss 1e, instead of it developing into its own distinct off-shoot that would need its own distinct subforum.

>>98484242
>Glad we agree.
2e and ACKS are both OSR? Glad that's settled.

>>98484260
You did it again. You just shitposted instead of just admitting you were wrong when it was explained to you how you are wrong.

>>98484284
>>98484287
Oh wow buddy is right you are hyperconfabulating in some way.

Your pattern recognition is busted.

Neat.

Good luck discussing your OSR 2nd ed game.