The Bore-us Heresy was won and lost at the titans' heels edition.Previous thread: >>98594760>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/1accdP>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/TQ: instead of looking outward, what question you do fear to be asked of yourself?
Horus did nothing wrong.Magnus did nothing wrong.
What's your favourite unit that never got an official model?
>>98612061Effrit, banestrike shotguns and power daggers on an entire unit is cool and a lot of fun. Not that I want official models for Effrit, it's more interesting to kitbash/convert them yourself.
>>98611802i am too scared of myself to start asking any questions. also post what you painted recently
>>98612061cortus dreadoughts and the iron dragon, yes he has a model for 40k, and it doesn't countbut really any special character, even generic praetor for salamanders would do
>>98612302the T is messed up dude.
>>98612364You can't just assume people's gender like that, Anon
Just dropped a bundle on 2000pts of custodes. And yet, buying the book feels a step too much. Why do I feel so ripped off about buying the rule books?
>>98612500Because rulebooks are guaranteed to be replaced at some point. The miniatures will always remain cool miniatures that you assembled and painted yourself. You do paint your own models, right? There's too many losers having others paint their armies these days.
>>98612510I don't understand paying someone else to do it. Mine don't look great (although fine for table top play), but I'd rather play with something I did myself than someone elses.
>>98612570
>>98611802TQ - Why do I always leave painting event armies until the last 2 weeks, I think I like the pressure and overcoming the suffering it causes lol.1250pts of Militia horsies still awaiting paint....
>>98612510>There's too many losers having others paint their armies these days.I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than paying someone else to paint your models for you.
>>98612968it's the same faggots who think they should have used the Eagles to fly to mount doom when the book explained it several times why they cant.
>>98612500I think books would feel like less of rip offs if they also did rules updates in a physical format. Buying a rulebook, but needing to log into a website or app to use the most recent version sucks, it’s a bad user experience. Flipping through pages for a new rules though, you were already doing that with! I believe it should all be online or all offline.
>>98612364damn right, and it's not the most messed up part>>98612570>>98612968>>98613140look here maggots : they have money, and can't be arsed to spend a year to learn how to paint as well as they want. so they exchange time with money. ain't nothing wrong with that, at least certainely not when i'm painting stuff for others
>>98613436>look man, it's okay for you to let another dude fuck your wife, I should know, I fucked that guy's wife
>>98613436Whether a person painted their own army tells a lot about their character. Somebody that painted their own models, even if those don't look great, will always earn my respect. At the least they tried, put in time and effort to create something and learn a new skill.People that buy painted armies on the other hand lack strength of character. They just want quick access to something, and don't understand that it's the journey towards it that really matters.Nothing against you for getting that bag though.
>>98613509if you think money is anything beyond a mean to an end you're far more cucked than every dude who's ever paid me
>>98613554i respect their hustle : they like the universe but buy time and effort they don't have. i've had clients who paint all the army but want a character or two special ? is that bad ? i don't know. at the end of the day i care about my oponent's army being painted, no matter the level, no matter the painter.
>>98613589It's not a hustle. Having and spending money isn't some kind of virtue, everybody can do that. We all have to earn a living after all. And for people who have the money to buy painted armies it isn't the matter that they don't have the time or effort to paint themselves, but that they can't be arsed to, as you said yourself. Meaning somebody having models painted by somebody else is just showing that person is too much of a lazy piece of shit to even try do it themselves. And last time I checked being a lazy piece of shit does not demand respect.
>>98613554it's funny because the one person I know who commissions armies is the snobbiest guy I knownigga you didn't even paint your models, don't go around commenting on other people's shit
Does anyone here own those Legion contemptor upgrade sets? I’ve never bought a resin anything before, but this doesn’t seem like it would have the resin pitfalls I’ve read about due to being a hunk of it.
>>98613946>this doesn’t seem like it would have the resin pitfalls I’ve read about due to being a hunk of it.It will have different problems
Repostan from previous thread.
I feel like some of the uniqueness of heresy has been lost since 2e launchedyou used to be able to tell what was and wasn't a 30k model based solely on their paintjob; they were dirty and grittynowadays everyone paints their models in the same way a few youtubers or gw tell them to and they're indistinguishable from 40k
>think of a cool conversion>never see anyone do it>start getting the bitz together, psyched>find out that someone actually best you to it>get depressed and stop hobbying for half a year Why am I like this.
>>98614143Well what was it?
>>98614143Because you're a faggot
Rate my praetor
>>98614092Like what?
>>98614143Wow ur a faggot get urself togetha
>>98614102Amazin paintjob and minis however the pistol all down on his lower leg looks off and would be hard to get a hold of in combat. Are these prints?
>>98613554Yes getting someone to paint your army is like cuckoldry. >>98612968Beat me to it.
>>98612968Why would you pay an artist for his oil on canvas? It's the same thing, an army is a huge and daunting task, somebody just want a nice looking army as a display piece and play games.
>>98614317>Why would you pay an artist for his oil on canvasI wouldn't, and only faggots are art snobs
>>98614139What’s not cool about mint chocolate chip marines?
>>98614287The idea behind it was to make it easier to draw when crouching, sneaky style, but yes, those Head Hunters are printed
>>98614534Ah fair enough, printing is amazing.
>kind of want a custodes tank>there's a huge chance the variant I get will be in a combat force once they get oneshucks
>>98614593just be patient and work on the minis you already got, there are kids in africa starving rn
>>98612061cynis isn't a kind of cup, fuck off
>>98614598>there are kids in africa starving rnDeserved
>>98614550The current kit would look a bit out of place next to the new infantry, so I ended up having them printed
>>98614139Same, FW went from Skunk Works to skunk ass. Imo it's because the old FW used a shitload of paints that citadel doesn't sell like oil or even laquers so once the suits got involved the FW style had to go for the very newbie friendly and marketable heavy metal style. This is a shame because visionaries like Phil got their start in FW, alas enshittification always happens in the long run.
>>98612500Expiration date.
>>98614928The eavy metal style makes models look like shit. It's actively detrimental to sales numbers.
>>98614928It's so fucking painful to look at. The models are probably very close to the resins but the paintjobs make them look so much worse.
>>98615093that's so they'll match the paintjob the 40k custodes have had for 10 years because it's an either-system kit to justify the expense of making the mouldit's not that they can't be like the old style, it's that if they were there'd be fifty youtube grifters on it by the end of the first day trying to fuck up fragile egos for clicks about how GW just made ALL your MODELS OBSEOLETLEOS it's a dickbag world and I'm tired of its bullshit, but fuck me if I'm leavin first
>>98612968pfft, my cousin got a bottle of gin for priming and putting on the base coat on my entire army with his air brush. My time is limited enough at this point in life.
>>98614976>>98615093I know and agree, the suits think otherwise.
>>98614143>think of a cool conversion>go see if anyone else has done it, so I can get some idea if it'll work or how it looks>if I find any examples, I get even more excited to do itYour reward is not being the first or the only, but a cool model.
>>98612061That's a cool conversion
>>98613554Very true post>>98613436Don't get defensive about it, it's your customers that are cucks. I at least hope you get paid a decent amount. Some of these people end up making like less than minimum wage for that shit.
>>98613589The people with the money to pay for painting an entire army definitely HAVE the time, they just don't want to spent it on a job they aren't enthusiastic about, so they throw money at it, because they have more than enough money to do it.Just like all those bitch ass people with grey plastic armies. They have time to paint, but instead they play vidya or other shit. You can paint an army over a year with a mere thirty minutes a day. Just it takes discipline, which a lot of people don't have
>>98614143Because you are weak and just looking to an excuse
Does anyone know if you uhh 'acquired' the old school MKIV resin shoulders, would they still fit (and match the look of) the new plastic MKIV marines?
>>98615445Yes, shoulder pads might be the only thing that hasn't changed in 30 years.
>>98614143>See a cool conversion/kitbash>Copy it and make it my ownGood artists borrow, great artists steal.
>>98615445The kneepad shot trap gap bothers me
>>98615531Did you also notice the fucking vents above the boots?Whoever is currently doing the marine designs for HH has a fetish with putting gaps, vents, and as many possible weak points as he can in power armour.
>SoS pages from the black booksI... I can't believe it, GW remembered Sisters of Silence exist?!
>>98615711Sisters? That's not very inclusive.
Do you Mechanicum players really WYSIWYG the loadouts on your Magos?
>>98615445No, nuMkIV shoulder pads are bigger.Also, nuMKIII ones are smaller than the old ones.Why? Because GW gonna GW
>>98615445they would fit on the models, but the new shoulder pads are thicker, so they're bigger on the outside, and it will look uneven if you use both types on the same model
>>98615711Brothers of Silence when
we got any art or pointers on how indomitus shoulder pads should look in 30k or is it the same pads as in 40k?
>>98615831Yes its very weird.
>>98615500Wrong, the nu mk iv has bigger pads.
>>98616364they dont have the crux in 30k
>>98615711Was is the lore behind them being all female?
>>98614139Agreed, more of that SoH army pls?
>>98616446Iirc it's implied sisters existed before the imperium and they do share some technology with the selenar witches, the pariah gene was both more common and powerful in women and Emps didn't really care to change their culture the same way he let the old 100 keep their own, good or bad.
>>98616364there's not really any official art or depictions of 30k indomitus afaik, but they wouldn't have the crux terminatus yet. some people will use the 40k indomitus with just the chest aquila and crux shaved off, while others will print pads, chest and shin armor to make them look more 30k. it's up to you
>>98615711>This extract comes from The Horus Heresy Book Three: Extermination from 2014, which dealt with the aftermath of the Dropsite Massacre and the desperate struggles dragged in its wake.Didn't this actually come from Inferno? I thought the SoS were added in Book 7?
>>98616482Interesting thanks
>>98616483Indomitus is in visions of heresy book art>>98616508Yes it was from Inferno, the intern messed up.
do you have experience with wartablegames ? my order keep getting instantly cancelled, did i fuck it up or they simply don't have the item in stock
>>98616446someone at GW thought it would be cool years ago when they were making the Heresy card game (they were right)
>>98616364is it time to reference Visions again?
>>98616483>>98616552
>>98616693Excuse me, the what of death?
>>98616692That would be schizophrenic.
>>98614277I check 7 of out 7, old stuff poster
>>98616692visions is only canon when it agrees with my headcanon though
>>98616703EREBUS NO YOU CAN'T SAY THAT
>>98616364gorgons are the closest you can get. there's also 40k tyberos based on his helmet on the reoccurring helmet trio icon thing. but maybe his armor is a prototype, questionably modified, one of the many variants, etc. so don't take him for granted.
Indomitus don't real.
>>98616825>>98614277SOVLFVLnu-Heresy kiddies don't know what they missed
>>98616856reminder that tortugabay makes mk5 indomitus termies
>>98616703Hard-r harbingers.
>>98616904Mk4 too.
>>98616904>>98616946Yeah and they suck
>>98616483Right, I’ve been thinking of printing those prototype pads, but I prefer plastic bits if I can choose.
>>98616957Yeah and you suck GW's cawk.
Whenever someone shills tortuga bay I just have to imagine they're shitposting
>>98617059their first gen mkIII did look a bit rough yeah, but a lot of their products are good, I like their JUSTaerin a lot
>>98617059No, unbelievable as it is there's people out there with genuine dog shit taste>>98617082Oh look there's one of them already
am I retarded or does wahapedia truly NOT have profiles and cards for titans themselves?
>>98613436Anon....are you one of those retards that can't paint your plastic army men because you are busy sitting in the chair?
>>98617177I mean, he's saying he's a commission painter, so he's benefiting from people wanting to be paintcucked
>>98617133Both can be true at the same time.
>>98612570It should be pretty easy to understand. People like miniatures, want to play games with them and understand that miniatures should be painted, but don't want to do it themselves because they either don't like doing it, or want them to look better than they're able to achive at their skill level and arent interested in developing that skill.It's very comprehensible, you just have to imagine that other people do not necessarily want to do things that you do on purpose for free. It's why services exist.
>webstore I usually buy from still has maximus battle group in stockmaybe I should be financially irresponsible and buy another one...
Can someone redpill me on a non-blue, loyalist titan legio for AT?I wanted someone known for a bunch of mid-close range brawler titans to offset a warlord sinister.I originally wanted Solaria but reading Titandeath really turned me off them because apparently they're just a bunch of hormonal women. Thinking of Metallica now.
>>98617335Can always go with the based Legio Ignatus. Sting like a bee, anon!
>>98617335You can never go wrong with Metallica or Gryphonicus but my personal favourite loyalist legio is the True Messengers after reading Honour the Dead. I always get pumped up by the scene where the Praesagius engines are making a last stand around the crashed coffin ship with most of their titans trapped aboard only for the the Warmonger Immortalis Domitor to walk free from the wreckage. It assholes an Infernus titan with a single shot from its Vengeance cannon and starts volley firing its Warp/Vortex missiles turning the tide. Also to the anon who asked to me condense all my deep autism on titan banners and their meaning. I'm still working on it but its sprawled massively to including all titan heraldry including niche shit like Divisio banners not just the standard honour banner. Also it's taking a lot more research than I expected even with my complete collection of original AT and AT2 stuff.
>>98617335Astraman is pretty cool. Loyalist bullies basically, had like three trsitor forge worlds gunning for them for revenge.
>‘Please, no! Compliance! Compliance!’ the man begged, stinking breath filtered through rotting teeth. He was already dead, putrefying from the inside out.>‘Blood,’ growled the beast.>The warrior threw up his arm to cover his face. It was cankerous, blighted with tumours, the muscles feeble, the bones sharp beneath loose skin.>The beast had once been this way, an example of humanity born of twisted genes. The Emperor had changed that, mending that which mankind had corrupted, remaking his young body, changing something that could barely be called a man into an exemplar of purity, at least on the outside.>The beast did not think of these things. He did not consider the similarities between himself and his prey, so soon to die and be consumed. He did not think, as the man the beast sometimes was thought, that the Emperor had performed a cruel trick, a sleight of hand that had turned the boy inside out, putting the ugliness within, exchanging internal decency for a superficial beauty that hid new evils.>The beast thought none of these things. The beast thought only of blood.>The beast punched, a sharp, precise blow that detached the prey’s sternum and forced the rib ends from their sockets. The man gaped at him, as if in shock at the beast’s impoliteness. His mouth worked, but his lungs drew in no breath. Shock gave way to panic. His eyes widened. He was suffocating.>The beast’s head drove down. His mouth latched on to the neck. Sharp fangs penetrated the prematurely wrinkled skin, hooked in, and the beast wrenched back his head. A hot chunk of flesh came away clamped in his mouth, salt wet running down his throat. Arterial spray coated his armour with a fresh, glistening layer.>The prey choked. Blood welled. His struggles lessened; he was nearly dead. The beast dipped his head again and, gently now, fed.
>>98617109I'm sorry you're so addicted to the flavour of James' smegma and Femboyrines anon, but TBchads are everywhere and only likely to become more common with GW's squattening of Real Marines from 40K. But keep going, watching paypiggies squeal is always entertaining.
>>98617984>FemboyrinesFemboy Marines?
>>98617984>Hating on femboysWhat are you, gay?
Thralls look cool, but I think I don't have any use for them. All Mechanicum units look beefy enough to not require bodyguards.
>>98617976Gaaaaaaaaaaay
>>98618162>Buck breaking Magnus
>>98618162>Come over here and kiss me on my hot mouth, I'm feeling romantical.
>>98618224>All Mechanicum units look beefy enough to not require bodyguards.
>>98618410A bit of an unfair comparison, though it does highlight Mechanicum don't have anything that can count as "light". Even Thralls are T5
New Recruit isn't letting me give special weapons to only a number of Thallax. It's all or nothing
>>98618224There's something so satisfying about Mechanicum mogging the shit out of Marines in the Heresy.
>"blackshield army" >look inside >iron warriors or 40k chapter
>>98618162>Tzeentch has been fucking Magnus and the Thousand Sons right from the start, yet it is Slaanesh who is the god of sex
What’s the best ‘make this make sense lorewise’ allied detachment for a Night Lords army?
>>98617329are you actually going to build and paint them?
>>98617109Tortuga is great they sticked to the classic designs unlike nu-gw with abominations like nu-mkIII. They also make a bunch of cool alt helmets from the visions of heresy books, kino stuff. Suck off GW's cawk harder bro.
>>98616825>>98616889REVTRN
>>98619052Night Lord fought alongside Salamanders. Everything makes sense when nothing normally does.Do you have something specific in mind you need help with?
>>98619052Just make something cool up.
>>98618974No, Slaanesh is the god of excess. Tzeentch is giving the thousand sons exactly what they deserved.
I can't think of a good reason why an invading traitor army invading a world would fight over an oil refinery beyond its along a route to something else important. I also can't think of a narrative objective.Fighting in a refinery is a really cool concept especially with the unique terrain but I can't square it with the narrative and I live for narrative play.
>>98619200Because they're running low on fuel and want to capture it? This is like the easiest thing ever what
>>98619180well, eventually, probably. I'm working on the first box. I probably shouldn't get another one, but I'm tempted
Enough with this Custodian nonsense, when are my big axe lads getting the plastic treatment?
>>98619200What do machines, spaceships & vehicles run on, what other things can Oil be used for? use one of those concepts anon, maybe the traitors need raw materials to trade for X from a Forge World that has been cut off from the refineries due to the Heresy.
>>98619200-The ancient cogitator/regulator at the heart of the complex could be reuposed as the heart of a missile defense system / doom engine / etc.-One side has six rounds to fill a fuel tanker and get out of there. The other side wants to stop them, but if they shoot the tanker (or other bits) the whole complex will explode, killing everyone and denying its resources to everyone. -The traitors want to overpressurize the pipeline and run it in reverse to explode a distant hive city. -The traitors are running low on sacrifices / snacks. The refinery's workers are conveniently located in numbered bunkers.
>play against newly spawned troon>a baby roach crawls out of his kratos hull as he's putting it on the tablethank fuck I play at the LGS,never inviting this guy to my home
>>98616904GW actively hunts down free stls, but tortuga is still running despite price tags measuring in gorillions. why?
>>98617272all I ever wanted was the truth. where are the titan profiles and their cards?
>>98619410>>98619251These are good suggestions. One thing that occured to me after feeling stupid for not being able to think of an objective I looked back at my 1 paragraph background fluff for the world I mentioned that it has maglevs lines particularity running from refinery hubs a bunch of other places so maybe the objective (or part of various objectives) could to be secure rolling stock and tanker cars for mischief. Whatever the objective(s) are they need to be centrally located in the sprawling refinery since the concept for the mission is inspired by a really old 90s mission where the defenders must deploy fully first being able to take up key defensive positions away from any table edge using the terrain fully to their advantage. Once the defenders have deployed the attackers get to choose which table edge they deploy from.
>>98619523Because they're in a state that opposes the western world and thus can't be seriously sued or punished, just like every other recast source.
>>98619245Your faction keeps getting worse with every release. At this rate I would pray for forgetfulness
>>98619588Which state is that?
>>98619410Damn that looks so sick, the perfect mix of gothic and industrial
>>98619410>Be me, hive scumrat.>Cheat, loan and save enough for a promethium dirt bike. More dirt than bike.>Shave my 3 hours commute down to 2. It's_something.rembrexe>Distant traitors run the pipeline in reverse.>The last thing I see is promethium being sucked out of my bike's tank back into the pump as my hive city explodes>Mfw
Are templar brethren worth taking?
>>98615500All nu plastic pads are bigger than the old resin ones. Clearly bigger so the best thing to do is to print new ones.
What accent does each legion sound like, beyond the obvious ones of white scars and space wolves?
>>98612500Speaking of, anyone have a copy of liber custodes?
>>98619957Night lords are eastern european slavic.
>>98619523Diplomatic immunity son.
>>98619052Sisters of Shut the Fuck Up, Boy
>>98619957https://youtu.be/Bgw9zdMkiyA?si=1z47BHGObhAAxiyC this is Nostra man to me
>>98619957World Eaters are myriad harsh foreign accent due to them generally only speaking gothic due to hypnoconditioning (some exceptions like the aristocratic german who loves to KILL MAIN BURN) and speaking to each other their own patois of the hundred native languages of the legionaries.
>>98619957The default is English RP for all legions + occasional lower class English accents for rank and file dudes. That represents the basic Gothic / Terran accent. Everything beyond that is pretty stereotypical and there isn't very much that's unique:Dark Angels - Anything from the British IslesEmperor's Children - Thespian / Theatre kid accentWhite Scars - Central Asian, Mongolian, Chinese etc.Space Wolves - NordicNight Lords - Slavic or Eastern European accentsSalamanders - West AfricanThere's always been random references to weird anachronistic or even revived dead cultures, like techno-barbarian Carthaginians and shit. I kinda wish the setting did more of this. I remember reading 'Legion' by Dan Abnett and I fucking loved the descriptions of weird cultures of the various Imperial army regiments & officers. Each one was from a different planet and had something unique or crazy going on. Really interesting setting considering the book was focused on the Alpha Legion. Kinda reminded me of The Expanse and the weird far future cultural mashup shit that series had.
>>98619614State of chaos.
>>98620100>like techno-barbarian Carthaginians and shit. I kinda wish the setting did more of thisI'm happy the unification wars remains to just scattered delicia tidbits like that scene of a former Thunder Warrior having a turbo PTSD flashback to the horrific atomic battlefield of Ursh and nearly shwacking his comrades and innumerable imperial bystanders. or the great scraps of history about Khangba Mawu like how Cardinal Tang was set to be imprisoned there but he got lynched in a transit camp by some victims of his eugenic purges
>>98619245I'm waiting for these guys as well.
>Tortuga order came in the mailHell yes.
>>98619245I don't think I'll miss these resins
>>98620100>>98620033If Night Lords claim the slavic accent, what do you the Sons of Horus sound like?The Terran Luna Wolves vets would probably speak in received pronunciation, but the Cthonian gangs I always assumed had a slavic accent.What other cultures irl have strong gang connotations. Are they from birmingham? glaswegian razor gangs? italian mob? they speak with a hood accent? abaddon sounds like he works for a cantonese triad?
>>98620728Everyone in 40k is bri'ish anon
>>98620711Nice, what did you get?
>>98620728SoH sound like LA gang bangers
>>98620749I pledge my allegiance to HL(Horus Lupercal)https://youtu.be/X6Qmrs6EXps
>>98620748Death Praetorians Contagion ArmourSpace Bats Fortress DestroyerDeath Praetorians Contagion HeadsSpace Kulaks M3 Armour - Templar RunningBughunterNinja GiantVasyl The BitcherM2 Armour - Kulak Running (True Scale)M2 Armour - Kulak (True Scale)Space Bats M4 HeadsSpace Egyptians M6 ArmourM3 Deimos-S Pattern Guns SetSpace Gidras M4 Bounty Hunters ArmourMachine LordSpace Gidras M6 Bounty Hunters Shoulder PadsSpace Gidras M4 Twin GunsMaster`s Sons Pre-Shoulder PadsSpace Gidras M4 Bounty Hunters HeadsMaster's Sons Pre-BackpacksMaster`s Sons Pre-Guns SetMaster`s Sons Prepick Heads Space Vampires MinigunsM4 Void BackpacksM3 Void BackpacksM2 Armour - Sky v.2 (True Scale)M3 DoublepacksMaster`s Sons Pre-Armour RunningMaster`s Sons Pre-ArmourPanzer-K Armour (True Scale)M3 Armour (True Scale)M5 Armour Running (True Scale)M5 Armour (True Scale)M4 Armour - Tabard (True Scale)M3 Armour - Tabard (True Scale)M3 Armour - Bionic (True Scale)M3.5 Armour (True Scale)M4 Armour (True Scale)M2.5 Armour (True Scale)M2 Armour - Tabard (True Scale)M2 Armour Running (True Scale)M2 Armour (True Scale)Space Vampires Guard Jump Pack *5M4 Armour - Bionic V.2 (True Scale)Space Gidras M6 ArmourM3 Heads - Siege M3 Armour - Knight Running (True Scale)Taras, Reaper Lord of the VoidM4 Armour - Bionic (True Scale)M3.5 Armour Running (True Scale)M2.5 Armour Running (True Scale) Star Jackals HeadsM3 Armour - Hoplite (True Scale)
>>98620819Equivalent of watching someone order a classroom’s worth of McDonalds for themselves, so sad.
>>98620728Night Lords are French
>>98620876That is correct . DGSE to be very specific.
>>98620859Sad that you... can't eat fast food?Or can't afford it?
>>98620819>So much resin>About to rot away in a box forever
>>98620819>sloptugaLmao faggot, you'll never paint any of it.
I hate 2.0 lanklet marines. It's like they forget they're built like houses and wearing really thick armor on top of that
>>98620970GW is slowly making marines more feminine in preparation of female marines. The day GW posts>There have always been female marinesremember that I warned you.
>>98620988You should see some of the heads in the nes intercessor kit.
Where can I find a list of extra conversion bait units GW have released?
>>98619588 I pray everyday that Ukraine never joins the EU so it can never be coerced into abiding Eurocrat IP laws.
>>98621024Yeah it's getting pretty blatant.
>>98611802What’s the state of breachers in this edition and how can I best utilize them?
Noob here. How does the death guard work in HH? I like the death guard enough but I'm not really a huge fan of the whole plague marine thing. Zombie Marines don't really do it for me but I like the death guard before they got mutated and their whole aesthetic was cool. The problem is that they pretty much only turn traitor due to nurgle cucking them, and then they all turn into zombies immediately after more or less, so is there a way to reasonably field normal death guard marines? Or am I just a noob who is missing something? Functionally are they any different from their 40k counterparts?
>>98621192Pretty good. Can either go tank hunting with lascutters in a rhino, or march across the field pinning down infantry with graviton guns.Lascutters seriously fuck up vehicles, and breachers can be put into a rhino and even charge out of it.Graviton guns are small blasts with breaching 6+ and the pinning status effect, which is quite nasty with how debilitating status effects are. They do only have Line 1 compared to the Line 2 of tactical squads, so get a little less VP from objectives. But from my experience they more than make up for it with staying power.
>>98621231I think in 14+ years of HH I still have to see someone irl field 40k DG in 30k. To answer your question despite BL saying they turn into full on plague marines post Isstvan in the FW books they look like their pre-HH self.
>>98621231Death Guard did not fall to Nurgle until they arrived at the Siege of Terra. There isn't really a good excuse to play zombie marines in HH unless you exclusively play battles that take place during the siege. So if you want to play DG as normal marines, HH is the place to do it. In HH the Death Guard are about slow marching infantry relentlessly firing heavy weapons whilst on the move. Very beginner friendly rules and play style.
>>98621265>despite BL saying they turn into full on plague marines post IsstvanFor all their faults, nowhere does BL say this.
>>98621273Forgot buried dagger was set before the siege because I have mostly removed it from my memory.
>>98621268>>98621273its kind of impressive that DGs turning to chaos has in its essentials (the Norovirus outbreak in the warp) has remained largely unchanged for so long. At the same time that shit was penned Angron was a noble barbarian warlord who joined Horus because he wanted a military coup to sweep away the corrupt imperial leadership and revitalize the imperial through martial might.
>>98621311Fair.
>>98621455>At the same time that shit was penned Angron was a noble barbarian warlord who joined Horus because he wanted a military coup to sweep away the corrupt imperial leadership and revitalize the imperial through martial mightThis honestly sounds way cooler than what we got
>>98621192They’re really good. Their staying power arguably makes them better than tacs despite having line 1 especially on boards with dense terrain. Vet breachers are also really good. The wargear for both end up being really strong so you either end up with good durable shooters that can shut down enemy squads with gravitons, or dangerous melee threats capable of punching up pretty hard with lascutters or melta guns and power fists for the veterans. They’re also not so expensive that you’d just outright rather play terminators so you can throw them around the board where you can’t with terminators
>>98620100>Salamanders - West AfricanThis is probably the wrong website to pitch this, but I wish GW incorporated more west african cadence into the Salamanders. The combination of formal / liturgical language, tempo, and humour is great.
>>98621273>>98621678>They’re also not so expensive that you’d just outright rather play terminators so you can throw them around the board where you can’t with terminatorsTerminators, or "10 Cataphractii with Thunder Hammers in a Spartan"? I think I'd rather have 5 tartaros with lightning claw and combi bolter than 10 breachers
>>98620819Cool, have fun anon!
>>98620949post minis
>>98621710West Indian Babylon take pussy boodclat Bag'o'Wire traitor Hons of Horus
>>98621670>>98621455The 'Lord of the Red Sands" short story was neat in that it had Angron (back when he was still lucid at times) explain he was not so much supporting Horus, but rather against the Emperor for being a tyrant.As for Horus, I like the fact that he had the vision for the self-fulfilling future. It legitimizes the fight for Legion's Rights.Idk much else why he turns, but I tend to ignore the shit I don't like lmao
>>98620728Someone here once said that the SoH are modeled after the youth gangs of roman aristocrats, but I don't seem to have a screencap of the post. To me though the SoH's gang culture reminds me of the italian mafia. Very focused on personality based leadership, knowing who's who in the pecking order, nostalgia for the 'old country', a kind of jovial cameraderie hiding potential betrayal, that sort of thing. Their aesthetic of barbaric spikes and gang runes contrasted with lots of gold and honorifics kind of feed into this, they're like greasy mobsters covering themselves in gold chains and rings and shit.
>>98622752Isn't that true for every mafia?
>>98621250>>98621678good, i shall assemble my squad and put them to the test
>>98621884>Wants to capture objectives with a unit that has vanguard instead of line
>>98622652Why aren't they fucking?
>>98622752I like the SoH as barely-romanised foederati, a bunch of visigoths who passed as civilised when you don't look to closely at them but the mask slips when they turn on the empire>>98622630I fucking love these guys I need to find those helmets
>>98624089Yea to me the SoH are like the barbarians of the late Empire period who fought for rome, while the luna wolves are the soldiers of the roman republic. Honestly the many different ways you can interpret their culture is one of the reasons I love them so much, theyre not just XYZ culture but in space.
>>98622652Can a horse even carry a marine Or is that a breeding horse for them
>>98624100Yes, the horse breeds them.
>>98624100Anon that's lion El and Luther So the answer is it probably can't carry him and he's faster than the horse anyway
>>98624096They are the Barbarians of the late empire but in space [spoiled]:^)
>>98624089>>98624096I like the comparison of semi-romanized barbarian rebels, and feel like it probably has the most substance to it, but I think the mafia comparison is also compelling. the mafia self image as respectable men of tradition and honor, and projection of sophistication at conflict with their pragmatically brutal and thuggish nature seems like an apt comparison imo
>>98624351>the mafia self image as respectable men of tradition and honor, and projection of sophisticationThen you are not thinking about the Luna/Sons of Horus AT ALL.>"You are a base born curr” hissed Eidolon.>“Just so you know,” Torgaddon replied, “you’ll have to do a lot better than that. I'm a baseborn curr and proud of it"
>>98624500I think I'm not expressing it properly. I'm not saying they have delusions of highborn noble ideals, more that they take pride in their brutal work, and see themselves as having a harsh kind of honor rooted in tradition. or something. I feel like I'm still fumbling it a bit, I dunno
Mk5 armor has to be next right? Would be wild if Mk7 armor was next due to the being in the Siege technicality
>>98624623watch next edition go back to the unification wars to avoid giving us heresy armor for the heresy
>>98624623I hope it never goes out so I don't have to see these retards leave the bumps the same as the armor like they do for mk6 shoulders
>>98624623I hope not. Would hate to see another power armour pattern get butchered.
>>98622630Angron dindu nuffin.
>>98624651what kind of pattern of bolter did they use during the uni wars?
>>98624794Angron is a slave, and mentally unable to escape it. A slave to the high riders, then a slave to the Emperor, a slave to Horus, and finally made a slave eternally to Khorne. Chronically unable to become master of his own destiny.
>>98621231DG didn't go plague until the siege of Terra roadtrip, most 30k DG armies are just regular dudes not plague ones.Morty turned traitor because of his close relationship with Horus, Morty had few friends. Horus and Morty shared the opinion that lesser pencil pushers shouldn't rule the imperium they and their sons had died and bled to carve out and build. Even without chaos a rebellion similar to the badab war was inevitable. Read these lore pages to get a better idea of 30k DGassets.warhammer-community.com/eng_26-03_thehorusheresy_black_book_extract_the_death_guard-6c4vwgdxdd-yridhqkcos.pdf
>>98624810NOO NOOO he's a victim he dindu nuffin. If only someone gave him a hug he would be fine.
>>98621455>At the same time that shit was penned Angron was a noble barbarian warlord who joined Horus because he wanted a military coup to sweep away the corrupt imperial leadership and revitalize the imperial through martial might.That's why Morty joined too, not corrupt per say just weak mortals. They were astartes supremacists basically.
>>98624810Angron was unironically the most self aware primarch.
>>98624621They may be base-born, but they are proud of their culture. One of the biggest examples would be Ashuraddon, First Reaver of the True Sons.Let's remember in that same base-born cur scene, Tarik tells Eidolon he is representing the Warmaster's own majesty like it or not.>If in any form I have offended you, let me assure you, I intended to.>>I won't forget this offense!>Then it was worth the trip.
I know that since Saturine pattern armor made it into the Heresy anything is on the table, but was Indomitus pattern armor really common in the Heresy. I think it’d be neat to get an official depiction of it.
>>98624500>the mafia self image as respectable men of tradition and honor, and projection of sophisticationThink less Godfather, more Sopranos. Guys who've watched the Godfather, who dream about wood-paneled libraries and tailored suits while driving shitty cars and wearing sneakers. The mob, not the fucking TV mafia.
>>98625025I can't find much lore on it, but Indomitus Terminator suits were introduced in the Heresy and are the most popular in M42 because it was the only one whose construction template was preserved since then.Or do you mean official release of a Heresy-branded Indomitus Terminator squad in smaller (non-primaris) proportions? Extremely unlikely since GW is disgustingly averse to cross-compatibility aside from armies that need it like Custodes and Knights, but with the new Destrier, that seems like it will be a replacement for the Lancer and Heresy Knights will be fully separated out from 40k Knights.
>>98624835more like gilf aware
>>98624834ah jeez
>>98625365>>98625025The original rules for Terminator armour in Betrayal were copied verbatim from 40k's rules at the time, and Indomitus is specifically named alongside Tartaros and Saturnine as being functionally identical; only Cataphractii (which unlike original Tartaros was a new kit for HH) got a specific set of rules and is called out as being "one of the first" and in "declining use" by the Heresy.The reason for that is recognition of what kits were available in 2012, hesitancy about working with resin for cost and specialist requirement (honestly tho guys you really should be wearing masks even if you're sanding plastic) and probably a lack of a hard decision to exclude Indomitus prior to plastic kits being available for the others (the rules for it were functionally identical to Tartaros - 40k eventually differentiated them in either 6E or 7E, but I don't recall if that was ever copied into HH).
>>98615445No, the new MK4 shoulders are much bigger and look noticeably mismatched with the old resin ones. If you have both pairs of old mk4 resin? It could work and would look fine.
>>98624810He is also, somewhat importantly for "the bit", aware of this fact. He knows that he just keeps exchanging collars, its WHY hes so existentially pissed.
>>98621192Solid. Worse at scoring than tacticals, but shieldwall isnt nothing vs small arms fire (one of the few defensive options infantry has available too) and their special weapons are VERY good. A squad of 10 breachers in a rhino can scare a land raider if they have lascutters.
>>98620100>Night Lords - Slavic or Eastern European accentsNight Lords are also british though arent they?
>>98625657Everyone in 40k is British. Even the Catachans who are blatantly based on American action movie heroes of the 80s.
>>98617984You still play James's shitty game though so you are just as big of a bitch. Bigger even I'd argue because you Know there is something else out there and still choose to interact with GW stuff.
>>98617059>>98617109A lot of their stuff looks quite bad, but some of it is okay. The prices are a fucking pisstake though, they make 3rd party ripoffs, they should price themselves accordingly.
>>98625672ehh they're based off Predator and Rambo visually, but all IG regiments are visually based off war moviesCadians start out as the Colonial Marines from Aliens (but I'm sure pick up some Starship Troopers around the turn of the century, and circle back around to some of the earliest IG metal models with the big breastplate armour, and the original plastics, both of which are probably cribbed from somewhere but I forget where); Elysians are a more Colonial Marines version of samethe Last Chancers are the Dirty Dozen, or at least the Dirty XI; they're probably the reason Chimeras end up with a transcap of 12, since a 2E Chimera transported 1 IG infantry squad (in this case 11 models) + 1 characterTallarn are Lawrence of ArabiaSteel Legion and later Krieg are both attempts at a melange of WWI/WWII trench warfare guys in long coats and gasmasksValhallans are Stalingrad (1993); Vostroyans are an attempt to turn John Blanche's drawings inspired by the same kind of themes into something that would sellAttilans are based on the mongols in The Conqueror (1956) (but thankfully not on John Wayne in that shitty makeup that made him look like Chunk from the Goonies)Mordians and Yarrick are about the most interesting; obviously there's enough redcoat in Mordians to resculpt them a few years later as Praetorians (and the conversions that led to that). But they're also inspired by movie nazis (who are almost always officers or distant mooks and door guards), and they're kind of "oops, all Commissars", replacing the old Commissar Training Squad unit the previous edition had; I suspect when they were being developed Yarrick was meant to be their regimental hero like Al'Rahem, Chenkov etcother than that about the most original character they had for years was Machariusbut yeah they're all Bri'ish because when they were developed that was who was buying the toys
>>98624835Thanks anon i was looking for a copy of Lord of the Red Sands>>98625922>the most original character they had for years was MachariusWot. He had a statline in the 3rd edition Guard codex and he's literally Alexander the Great.
>>98625964yeah but he doesn't have his own regiment; like Yarrick he's just Guy In Charge, and the only Alexander things about him are that he went really far (west, not east) and conquered a lot of stuff, but there's (at least initially) no wars of the diadochi that follow, and his eventual model doesn't resemble Alexander particularlyhe's just Some Dude who did some things that very broadly meet two points of reference for Alexander, not some dude heavily styled on a movie or two
>>98625922the nucadians seem like they're going for a ww2 US army in space kind of vibe instead of starship troopers, the rogal dorn is literally just an m26 pershing run through a 40k filter.Also to me the mordians always felt like they were space prussians, especially since they all wore blue.
>>98626097>only Alexander things about him are that he went really far (west, not east) and conquered a lot of stuff,You are forgetting his loyal men refusing to continue past the light of the astronomicon (also him dying on the way home). I want to say the 3rd edition guard codexes even say he wept bitter tears for there were no more worlds to conquer but I can't check right now.
>>98626253It's mostly that cadians (and every other IG regiment) wears a solid breastplate and shoulderpads. Modern militaries simply don't use that, so that's where the similarities stop.>Alien-Starship_Troopers and their consequences have been a blessing for sci fi
>>98626297I checked. They aren't that on the nose but similar >Macharius wept, tears of rage and sorrow, as he heard of his soldiers' refusal to go on
>>98624835Hence why he is so lovable.
>>98625475huh?
>>98624817Morty was a traitor but not a chaos guy, he also got tricked and betrayed by Typhon
>>98625493Could Tartaros and Indomitus sweep advance in 1.0 or was that a later addition?IIRC cataphractii traded a better invul for no sweep.
>>98626619Yes I'm aware, that's basically what I was saying, Typhon aside.
>>98625493So unless they update the depiction, Heresy Indomitus is de facto what it was in 40k minus the Terminatus and Aquila?
>>98626659Tartaros was able to sweeping advance later on in 1.0 (When FW decided they wanted more people to buy their resin crack)In 2.0 both tartaros and indomitus could sweeping advance (Yet another reason it was an abomination of an edition)>>98626702Just minus the crux terminatus. Plenty of reasons and examples of something having the Aquila stamped on it during the HH and Great Crusade. Though you obviously should get rid of Aquila if you play traitors.
>>98626720>Just minus the crux terminatus.We've had this conversation a hundred times.>>98616693
>>98626720>Though you obviously should get rid of Aquila if you play traitors.Or don't: the most ideal traitors were trying to save the imperium from the Emperor and bureaucratic rot
>>98626878Yeah Visions art is like big boobs on a fat lady: it's there but it doesn't really count
>>98626917*posts black book pictures of Terminator miniatures with CT on them*
>>98626951Mfw.If we recall the myth, Crux Terminatii allegedly have each a tiny sliver of the Emperor's armour.Doesn't mean you can't have pre-heresy cruxes - only that they can't have a tiny bit of His armour in them. It could be a generic shard of auramite.
>>98627020>Crux Terminatii allegedly have each a tiny sliver of the Emperor's armourThat part of the lore never made sense. Even if the Emperor's armour got atomised, I doubt there'd be enough bits for all suits of terminator armour across 10k years of attrition and countless chapters of space marines.
>>98625650>Worse at scoring than tacticalsNo wonder, women prefer chads who do not hide behind a shield like a beta. Total despoiler victory.
>>98625657Terran DG and IH recruited british ppl too.
>>98626720Compared to 3.0, 2.0 seems fine with some tweaks.
>>98626883Ideals don't matter when you literally side will demons from hell to burn down daddy's empire in a hissy fit.
>>98627109Only people who have never played either edition are still saying this.
>>98627051Because GW is so bad with numbers (and because I am taking the poetic "a thousand times a thousand marines" in a literal way), we know there are a maximum of 1 million marines. 1000 chapters. 1/10th of them have access to terminator armour, at best.100,000 crux terminatii.Assume the Emperor's surface area to be about 2 square meters. Divided by 100,000, that's 20 square millimeters per shard, plus whatever thickness the armour is.GW's numbers work better when multiplied by 10. You can divide an inch-thick 2mm2 piece into 25.4 shards of 1 cubic millimeter each.Apparently there is enough. Not to mention it's probably just a generic piece of auramite anyways, and it's just propaganda lol.
>>98627051>>98627159I always saw the lore as symbolic or as an in universe legend.
>>98627159Except for all the terminator armor irrevocably lost yet can still be manufactured lol
>>98627159I keep forgetting GW's retardly low numbers for everything.
Can you give me one reason not to use this guy as a word bearer HQ?
>>98627195>terminator armor irrevocably lost yet can still be manufactured lolI heard people have waged wars just to retrieve original pieces of terminators armour. Though I suppose some pieces you could replace with brute slabs of adamantium.Techmarines probably can still manufacture them...but they are artisanal pieces that take years to make. Years occupying valuable tech support that the chapter desperately needs elsewhere. And then they die and their successors have to continue their job trying to figure out what their predecessors were trying to do, on blueprints that predate them by millennia...It's grim, bro. Maybe even a bit dark, too.
>>98627302He says "Cowabunga" but unironically. That is the particular Word he bears.
>>98627302You'll be associated with 40kfags
>>98627302Using 40k sculpts without any effort to resculpt, convert or kitbash them with 30k bits is lazy, boring and sad. It detracts from the heresy vibe. It makes 30k feel less special.Carefully converting 40k sculpts for use in 30k is good and should be encouraged. It's literally how the heresy hobby got started.This is a completely reasonable take.Pr*maris shit is never acceptable, don't even ask.
>>98627302I cannot.
>>98627302He looks like he came out of WoW.
Anyone seen good knight upgrade bits or stls? Only stuff I've been able to find is kits to make your knight look like it belongs to a space marine legion which is kinda lame I think
>>98627432I looked at him as a conversion base but then I realized I didn't need to change anything. Well, besides a headswap.
>>98627578Try Taro Modelmaker, Battle Bling, Solwyte Studio, da_sub00, Warshak1.
>>98627432>Pr*maris shit is never acceptable, don't even ask>*looks at my BA SGs that use primaris arms*
>>98627051guys do you think the Master of Mankind could only afford one set of armour
98627155This bad of a take in the big 26. 2.0 is objectively better than 3.0. The only thing it needed, that the community asked for, was a balance on Las weapons, and a mild uplift of the Traitors rules to me more evenly balanced.
>>98628847well...he was a big guy so there's probably enough for small shard to be used in each Terminator armor.
>>98627051>>98627159IRL, there are enough bones of some saints to assemble several complete skeletons. While the modern Catholic church has generally tried to cut down on this sort of thing, 30-40k is not so rational.
How to you reckon Ceramite is made? like its forged from some base form like metal then sets into it more more ceramic final form where it can be bonded in layers? they just says ceramo-metalic but don't get more specific
>>98627302lazy low effort, you HQs should be a crazy kit bash unique snow flake
>>98627155Ok what are you arguments for 3.0 and can you steelman why people don't like it?
>>98629083I don't have a proper answer for you, but I'm just realizing this is the first time I have ever seen someone ask this question in decades of 40k lore discussion. Huh.
My true white whale of old epic mini STLs are chaos space marine minis. Specifically the world eaters/berzerker ones. There are plenty of proxy ones on cults but I can't find the legit ones. How are telegram groups for finding STLs? is it easy to find stuff or a lot of ass licking runaround before you get the good stuff?
>>98627302the csm shoulder pads are ugly, and he has no helmet
>>98627155It was a bad take when 3.0 came out and it’s still a bad take. 2.0 was a complete garbage fire. Playing the “pray your army does anything” game everytime you decide to run anything besides l a/h. For the whole patching idea to work, you’d have to redesign damn near every army in the game
>>98629320NTA, but are there telegram chats for the old Wilph stuff? I missed out on some of them before his shit got got
>>98629083If it's anything like modern composite materials, it's probably crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtxVdC7pBQM I'd imagine it's a complex sintered material. Basically, mix a powder in a mold and heat, but with exotic sci-fi goodness (grav-field compression, magnetic alignment, etc.).
In 2.0 what is the best way to run possessed traitors from legions other then the word bearers, something like luperci from the SoH? Is it just to add a WB allied detachment and run gal vorbak but paint them the same colours as the rest of the force?
>>98628847His armour is literally named "the ONE True Armour". The cruxes get shard from "Second Fake Surplus"
>>98629636Homebrew: Horus Ascended can imbue some squads with dark juju. So, just use that but without Horus himself. Say he did it before the battle
>>98627302I don't like the head, backpack, or pauldrons
I appreciate that kits like these exist.
>>98629697he's literally named the MASTER of Mankind and here we are in a thread about a game about an uprising that proves he wasn't what's your point
*blocks your path*
>>98630334In time we will see plastic Primarchs
>>98630339Is this a joke.
Did Lorgar paint his armor red as well?
>>98630342No, why would it be?Afaik environmental regulations is forcing GW to stop resin in the near future, so it follows that everything will be plastic going forwards.
>>98630349there are plastic primarchs already.
>>98630362Wrong game bucko.
>>98629636not if it affects the allies matrixfor SH primary WB allied it doesn't usually matter other than for Transportsbut for WB or AL primary it matters because nobody really trusts them (and they don't trust each other) which affects your scoringand for some it becomes even worse, so if you wanted for example to run WE/AL with Coils for GV you'd be creating a bottleneck on the board whenever someone fails their Get Fucked Check (1/6)it's really moot since nobody but you and that kid you keep in your basement still plays HH2, but I'm sure you can work it out between yourselves>>98628871>tarpits your primarch with 5 veteran challenges
>>98630349you know why they're leaning so heavily into vidya right now? because plastic is coming to an endby mid-century it won't be financially viable to be a company that makes plastic products
For me, it's GC-era Death Guard.
>>98630388>Death Guard I must be tired, meant Iron Warriors.
>>98624100We have a solution
>>98629083As opposed to adamantium or aurumite, which are/incorporate fictional substances, ceramite is made of conventional substances that undergo a fictional process. If anyone could answer that question of how, they could simply invent ceramite.
>>98630339For ligma.
>>98630563Does GW still release new models in blister packs? making a modern version of epic scale primarchs (and named characters generally) would have to be a <£10 blister pack.Not only because you'd be selling a single 1 piece model no bigger than a 28mm marine but would paypigs really spend the same amount of money as the 50 model infantry boxes or tank squadron boxes? If it was a named character it would be at most a single squad base with retainers (like Khargos, Esca and Jedek with Kharn)
>>98630593So far ligma boxes have been priced roughly the same, with smaller units getting mixed boxes. If they are ever planning to release primarchs I'm guessing they are going to get into legion specific boxes with their own units and legion doors. Which is dumb because I don't want Angron but I really would like rampagers and red butchers, same as me not wanting SA las-tarantulas but those got put with cyclops and rapiers.
>>98630388Before Perty?
>>98630210yeah tortuga is great
>>98629360Which edition do you prefer then and why? What makes 2.0 so bad?
>>98624100Yes a mechanized one
>>98629425My thought for a fluffy sounding manufacturing process >Some base unrefined base material (powder or something)>Heated into a porous billet>Forged into ceramite by massive hydraulic hammer >as it is forged it is bombarded by a sci fi particle accelerator that precisely manipulates the crystal lattice structure and ceramic metal bonds.>>98631321https://youtu.be/0qD46e8XE1U
>>98630651I actually like that all the Ligma boxes are priced the same.I'm not sure what GWs reasoning is but I find it comfy that you can get a bunch of different minis all for same price.
>>98630210I hope Russia wins.
>>98624111Descent of Angels had the Knights of Caliban riding giant freak warhorses that had been bred to carry humans in power armor, and mentioned Lion had an unusually huge and strong one. so, evidently yes, it can be done.
>>98630210This is a bad kit. The sculptor apparently didn't know the difference between MkIII torsos and MkIV torsos reinforced with MkIII front plates (like the ones in pic related)
Post your armistos's please, I need inspiration.
How does gets hot interact with conversion beamers? Do you hit yourself with the closest range setting (since you are 0" away from yourself) or do you hit yourself with the strength of the thing you were aiming at distance wise?
>>98627432>Pr*maris shit is never acceptable, don't even ask.Not actually true, theres various individual pieces that are fine to use, whether thats the deathwatch heavy bolters, melta mines and so on
>>98631384Holy shit. I was a no-life Metalhead for most of my years and took pride thinking I knew all the 40k/Metal crossovers in my field of knowledge but this one must’ve slipped through the cracks. Saxon?!? That makes no sense….I love it! I wonder if they knew wtf this was about, they were starting to get old in the late 80s but they are super English as well. Learned something new today, I will look into this and probably paint to Saxon today. Cheers!Also that ‘Ride’ cover whips the original CCross versions ass. Here’s my recently painted Spartan in tribute:
>>98631537The picture gave me a chuckle, still a tortuga fan tho.
>>98631705Generic wargear isn't primaris really.
>>98631809Apparently GW had a label?https://rateyourmusic.com/label/warhammer_records/Sadly I can't find the story behind the Saxon one but I did find this article https://www.polygon.com/23954679/warhammer-records-oral-history-brian-may-john-blanche-metal-af/ yes I know it's Polygon but what can you do?
>>98627432Primaris bits are acceptable as long as they look nothing like Primaris bits.
>>98631988They all look freaked put by a tiny ghost appearing on the middle one's arm.
>>98631809Which Legion is this?
>>98632152The iron sploogers.
>>98632152The Chrome Cum bustersThe Metal Man-juicersThe Steel Semen daemons
>>98631849I mean, it is LITERALLY a primaris part.
I will use primaris pouches and pistol holsters on my models
98628871this is bad bait or nogames revisionism, take your pick. 2.0 is objectively a very poorly made system that has the dubious honor of being where a lot of casual players entered the game
>>98629199>what are you arguments for 3.0It is, by FAR, the most balanced edition of the game. Its not even in the same world as the other editions in that regard. This better balance allows for more more variety in games and for more units that get to do what theyre supposed to do instead of being rendered irrelevant by the handful of criminally overtuned/overpowered meta picks. The removal of RoW stops entire playstyles being legion locked/removes "monobuild legions". The stripping down of bloated special rules lets unit and faction flavor be expressed in subtler and more effective ways, less arbitrary buffs and more "the way this unit wants to be used plays into the flavor of the faction". >can you steelman why people don't like it?"Feelbads" mostly. 3e removed a lot of the "overt special rules" from units and factions, and for some players thats the same as removing flavor from the game, because they need their guys to have a special rule that lets them get +1 to hit when outnumbered, rather than simply being naturally good when outnumbered due to the way their fundamental statistics work. 3e also changed force org, which once again causes feelbads from people on a fundamental "I dont want to learn a new system" way. It also moved the game to a much more aggressive/proactive gameplay format with much faster scoring and shorter games, which is a different from what the game was previously.
>>98615093Unironically soul vs souless
>>98632651This, from my experience you can bring units you think are cool in 3.0 and have a good shot at winning. In stark contrast with older editions, where you could lose before any dice had been rolled if you didn't bring enough of the must-haves in your list Before the retards start sperging out about tactical squads: no, you don't absolutely need Line 2 units to win, learn how to control the board and objectives. I've regularly won without any tacticals or despoilers in my listThere seems to be a group of people who are very upset that they can no longer win the game in the writing your armylist step. And they either can't or refuse to wrap their head around winning a game through tactics and strategy in game.
>>98632703I mean, I think you still CAN obviously win or lose in the listbuilding stage. Its just less "take the right units a couple of times and win if the other guy doesent". You can make a list that cant score for example, and more or less lose by default, or create some sort of disfunctional abomination list that just doesent work, or through bad luck bring a list that just doesent work well against your specific opponent (mass AT into hordes of militia, mass small arms vs admech or custodes or whatever). But I agree with the overall sentiment.
Let me end this whole "which edition is the best" discussion once and for all:3.0 is the only edition in which destroyer squads are actually good.
>>98632651>It is, by FAR, the most balanced edition of the game. Its not even in the same world as the other editions in that regardNTA but yeah because they removed so much flavor and diversity from most things and or nerfed legion specific things into the ground while maintaining some of the most broken ones, IE AL and UM3.0 is ok but it has some issues that they are SLOWLY fixing. >4 turn games is retarded>Launching with only 3 missions 1 of which is fucking terrible >Line units being so fucking good to the point most games are decided by turn 2 for who is on the objectives and doing end of turn scoring instead of start of turn>Reserves being ass fucked for no good reason>Still using the crappy WS chart from 2.0>List Building is annoying as fuck now with detatchments, no reason to go away from the FOW and RoW 3.0 is quite fun because they are slowly fixing it, but 3.0 is very much NOT with out its problems.
>>98632765This is true, theyre really fun this time around. FInally live up to the "pseudo suicidal warcrime unit" fantasy. I want 10 more.
>>98632651>"I dont want to learn a new system"Its not a case of "I dont want to learn a new system" its a case of.Why the fuck do i need to play musical chairs with my entire list if i want to change out a single HQ slot or remove an HQ. Its fucking annoying that I have to shuffle around shit.
>>98632756Sure, if you bring nothing but militia levy squads of course you're not gonna win much. But those are mostly rare exceptions now, as long as you're making a somewhat rounded armylist there's always a decent shot at securing a win. And the only real instance of "I win" armylist we've seen was the blackshields centurion spam with that one particular oaths combo (which thankfully got nerfed into the ground quickly)
>>98632782>yeah because they removed so much flavorI cant say I agree. Yes, overt special rules were significantly cut cown, but the actual "flavor" of each legion is still very strong, its just not expressed through "special rule that says a thing" and more just overall functionality and what the unit does/wants to do. >or nerfed legion specific things into the groundWelll... Yea? Because those were the super broken things that caused bad balance. Theres very few outright "bad" legion specific units, the closest would be stuff like terror squads, and even those can be made to function. But legion stuff is no longer the be all end all, and therefore the legions with the best special stuff in an area no longer get exclusive domain there. >IE AL and UMTheyre strong, but I wouldnt say they're particularly egregious. Maybe I just havent ran into the correct UM and AL I guess. >>98632790Why do I have to play musical chairs with my whole force if I want to change RoW or add an extra unit in 2e? You are used to a specific system, that system has worked for you and you dont like having to learn a new system. Thats understandable and normal. But that is "I dont want to learn a new system", which is a fundamentally emotional impulse rather than some sort of reasoned analysis.
>>98632792>as long as you're making a somewhat rounded armylist there's always a decent shot at securing a win.Yea, I agree with that sentiment. Theres some fringe exceptions imo (custodes and admech can both prey on "normal" well rounded lists due to how skewed they are by design) but for the most part if you bring a normal force you always have a shot at winning.
I like gassing up 3e, in part because its detractors tend to be retarded. But it has some flaws. The biggest one is imo how scoring works. Its not necessarily just the shutouts, yes it sucks but theres always a possibility of "this guy has won, we may as well stop" in basically any game or game system, and its not even necessarily undesirable. But the scoring being end of turn makes it far less interactive than it should be. Make it end of opponent turn, or start of your turn, and you add a lot more risk to taking objectives, making just rushing them far more of a "do I do it, or do I hold off" consideration. It also helps make vanguard feel better, which is probably a good thing? Maybe it makes statuses too good, idk. But my gut feeling is that its a simple change which could do a lot of good.
>>98632782Whilst I disagree with most of your points, I do agree that the missions were abysmal. Thankfully the journals have fixed that.
>>98632813>Why do I have to play musical chairs with my whole force if I want to change RoW or add an extra unit in 2e?Because if i want to take something instead of a centurion i now need to find out where to put my shit from one detachment into another, or if its a prime slot for logistics. Its just needlessly annoying.FOW and RoW was better because there was no shuffling shit around if i wanted to use say a librarian instead of a centurion, or Chaplin, i did not need to take an HQ to unlock my transports my units could just pay for them. The removal of dedicated transports was dumb, The RoW system worked fine, it just needed balance on some of them, mostly the loyalist ones.
>>98632813>Theyre strong, but I wouldnt say they're particularly egregious.AL is pretty fucking strong, you can outright deny heavy units from getting into combat if they want with the fallback reaction, which is fucking crazy. UM is also stupid good because they get their own specials prime option to get transports and other things which is crazy good.
>>98632846>FOW and RoW was better because there was no shuffling shit aroundSure there was. I want to make a terror assault list (makes terror squads core), but I decide I want to take a 2nd heavy support choice, so I now have to drop the list. I now have to reshuffle my units, since the terror squads are now elites and so on. >The RoW system worked fineThe RoW system was FUN, but it was imo fundamentally doomed because of the direction GW decided to take it (gating entire playstyles behind RoW, RoW which encouraged very specific styles of play which limited what legions were and did)>>98632855>you can outright deny heavy units from getting into combat if they want with the fallback reaction, which is fucking crazy.Im not sure you can. They setup move 1" away, you move away 4" and are now 5" away. They setup move 1", its now a 4" distance (6" due to trait) for the 1" setup move guys.They do make disordered charges impossible potentially though, which IS pretty damn significant though.
>>98632838I think end of opponent scoring with objective markers won't work. Tactical squads are so fragile, it is impossible to keep them alive against an opponent who has a vague idea of what he's doing. Dunno if it's a matter of most people still needing to adjust, because locally the meta has a lot of zoning, board control, and highly mobile aggressive units which make it hard for tactical squads to even get to objectives in the first place.The sector control and blood feud rules of ZM do make Line and Vanguard feel surprisingly equal though, maybe there's some way to implement those into regular missions?
>>98632813>that system has worked for you and you dont like having to learn a new system.Again, you seem to be under the assemption i dont want to, or cant learn it, i can, i learn new editions every time. That does not mean that i don't look at the current FOC system and think its good. Its a pain in the ass for no real good reason. It centers everything around taking HQs in order to unlock more slots.ROW worked better because they were more appropriately themed and constructed with its requirements and limitations. The current Detachment system is basically just open list play with extra steps. The other system im not a particular fan of mostly because its half baked is the prime system, because people only ever take combat vets.I would like to see more prime options though, specifically i would like to see a lot of legion flavor and options come back in the form of prime benefits.
>>98632869so for alpha legion, the move happens after they finish their movement.You can not end your move within 1" of the enemy so technically speaking you are 1.00001" away. AL move they are now 5.00001 inches away. They get a 1inch set up move 4.00001you AL add 2" to that, they are now 6.0001" away, you can not end your charge in base contact after a charge. If AL do not want to, they can prevent you from getting into combat. The way you described it is, you are 1" away, but tahts not how rules are written, RAW you can not be within an inch of an enemy after you move. meaning you have to be >1". >>98632869>gating entire playstyles behind RoW, RoW which encouraged very specific styles of play which limited what legions were and didDESU thats the entire point of RoW, you wanna take a heavy terminator list? Ok you have restrictions to that and benefits from it.
>>98632855But yea, AL and UM are absolutely GOOD. I just dont think theyre broken.>>98632871Maybe, I think I need to get some games of Zm in to see how they work. Thankfully a local guy is printing up a board. >>98632876>or cant learn it,Im sure you can, its not a HARD system. Its just not what you are used to and therefore not what you find comfortable and intuitive, and therefore it annoys you. >It centers everything around taking HQs in order to unlock more slots.It does. 100%. It frames your army as the collection of smaller divisions and forces led by minor officers and encourages taking these lower level characters. Which plays into the narratives HH is clearly trying to push and works well in setting up the challenge mechanic. >because people only ever take combat vets.What? No. Yes, combat vets is "generally good" and if you have a "spare prime slot" you can just take it without much thought since it just makes a unit that little bit better, but its definetly not "the only thing you will ever take". Malefic is great for traitors, logistical benefit is also incredible a lot of the time because of the aforementioned "list juggling" you dont like. Master sgt can be a pretty significant combat buff. Not to mention legion specific traits which are sometimes around. Basically every other prime benefit does MORE than combat vets, combat vets is just less situational than every other prime trait.
>>98632927>DESU thats the entire point of RoWThe issue arises when its a legion specific list RoW, and now only that legion gets to play that playstyle.
>>98632928>Its just not what you are used to and therefore not what you find comfortable and intuitive, and therefore it annoys you.anon you are just randomly projecting these assumptions onto me.Its comfortable and intuitive i never said it was not, it does not mean its not fucking annoying to deal with. Anon you are on a mongolian basket weaving image board talking about plastic dollies, why are you trying to psycho analyze people. Its not that hard to under stand>I can opeate with it>I understand how it works>Im comfortable with it, and its inntuitive.None of that means i dont think the system is still fucking stupid and needlessly annoying. Its like the WS chart, i have been using the WS chart for 2 editions now, its fine with it, i still think its bad and we should be using the WS1.0 chart. >>98632935You mean like how specific legions specialized in specific types of warfare and therefore have specific RoW that reflect taht? Weird.
>>98632876>specifically i would like to see a lot of legion flavor and options come back in the form of prime benefits.More primes could be interesting, but the sentiment here is dangerous. Youre risking the game devolving back towards infinite special rules and mass legion discrepancy where (for example) you only get to play melee if youre from the "get to do melee" legions, and you may as well not even try otherwise.
>>98632948>You mean like how specific legions specialized in specific types of warfareAll legions could and did all forms of warfare. All legions could and did use all units in the arsenal.
>>98632876>It centers everything around taking HQsI do not understand this complaint about the new detachments system. First, because so far I've almost never had the issue of having too few detachments. Between logistical benefit, legion specific detachments, the legion agnostic detachments, and generally taking 2-3 command/high command for utility alone You seriously leave home without a paragon of battle legion champion, and a chaplain to shout into the nuncio voxes?Second, in old editions people were always complaining that 3 HQ slots was not enough. Now there's finally more, but suddenly it sounds like everybody wants to play armylists with only one single command choice? I just don't get it.
>>98632963>you only get to play melee if youre from the "get to do melee" legions, and you may as well not even try otherwise.I mean if your legion specilizes in a particular form of warfare then yeah like you should have special rules desigened for that, thats why you should be picking a legion that speaks to you for the type of warfare you think is coolest and go with it. Like if you think DG are super cool and awesome, but you are ass mad they dont have a special ROW that is all about using pskers, thats your problem, by not having legion specific flavor in the forms of Prime benefits you just turn everything into a boring bland flavor of the same thing, and at that point legions only differ in color, and thats bad design. >>98632972>All legions could and did use all units in the arsenal.No? some legions specialized in specific units and warfare, thats covered many many times, and rules should reflect that. >>98632976>I do not understand this complaint about the new detachments system.Ok let me give you the example.I take a Preator and a centurion Cool i get my apex, and then i get 2 detatchments, i want to take 2 units of terminators and 2 land raiders, ok i need to take heavy transport detachment and then i also can get my terminators from teh apex cool, i also want some rapiers.Now lets say i want to change that centurion into a librarian or something, great now i lose my detachment of either transports or rapiers now i gotta shuffle shit around or take another HQ in order to take the units i already had going for me. Its not hard to understand how it works, its just fucking annoying to deal with.
>>98632948>Its comfortable and intuitive i never said it was not, it does not mean its not fucking annoying to deal with.That feels rather contradictory. Your issue as laid out is a personal annoyance at having to do X, not that X is hard or whatever, but that its a hassle and you dont like it. This is clearly not "actually its comfortable and intuitive". Its fine to be annoyed by it, but thats clearly what this is. If "list shuffling" was actually comfortable and intuitive for you, you wouldnt be bringing up "I have to shuffle the list around" as your criticism of the system because that criticism is inherently rooted in the action being done being somehow unpleasant or whatever. Just stick to "I dont think the system is restrictive enough", which is arguably true and a stronger point. It probably could use more "mandatory slots">Weird.Its not weird, its pretty obvious how that came to be, its just retarded and a result of hack writing/design. "some legions had a preference/specialization in some areas" is not "therefore the legion only did those things, and the other legions did not do that thing". But that is the destination you reach with 2.0. Its what RoW do. You restrict the game to a handful of mono-list gimmicks that make everyone a stereotype.
>>98633001>No?Yes.>some legions specialized in specific units and warfareAnd they still did all the others. The legions that did not specialize in those forms of warfare or units also still did them and used them respectively. The ravenguard had artillery sections and siege detachments, the iron warriors had jetbikes and recon companies.
>>98633013>And they still did all the others.So you are saying that legions like say, the Tsons should not have a type of prime or detachment specifically designed for Psykers that no one else gets? Or that WS should not get a special type of Detatchment for things like Bikes and they get Line on any bikes taken in that detatchment Or perhaps something like DG should not get a detatchment that lets them take shock assault troops and they should be able to move and shoot as if they stood still? You know because these legions specifically specialized in this type of warfare.
>>98633001Depending on which legion you play, there's usually a legion specific detachment with extra prime slots that would all you to put all that in your list with only a praetor and a librarion. And what exactly is the problem with bringing one more command? There's so many dirt cheap options that also provide incredible utility. What is it that makes it so you absolutely can not take more than one praetor, one command?
>>98633001>thats why you should be picking a legion that speaks to you for the type of warfare you think is coolest and go with it.Thats a retarded 40kism that should be kept as far away from HH as possible. All the legions did every type of warfare, they werent one note gimmicks and the rules should not try and shoehorn them into them. The WE arent khorne berserkers and nothing else, theyre a well rounded combined arms force (like ALL the legions) that has a predisposition towards its melee aspects and which has its melee component be slightly more effective than the other legions. >you just turn everything into a boring bland flavor of the same thingThe legions ARE different flavors of the same base thing, that is the point. Theyre variations on a common template, thats the whole beauty of the system. Theyre not 18 different armies, theyre 18 different takes on the same army, their minor differences expressing themselves and resulting in different results on the tabletop. There is not and should not be "the death guard army" any more than there should be "the salamanders army" or "the sons of horus army", there is only "the space marine army" (or rather, all the possibilities of what that can be) and then each legion can do its own take on that.
>>98633054>Thats a retarded 40kism that should be kept as far away from HH as possible.What are you talking about? Its always been a thing that specific legions could specializes in specific types of combat, thats been a thing in HH for fucking ever since day 1, yes every legion had access to the same tools, but each legion could leverage those tools to a different degree. Thats been in the game since day one.
>>98633036>the Tsons should not have a type of prime or detachment specifically designed for Psykers that no one else gets?No, they already have a legion trait that represents their greater predisposition towards psykers and a bespoke psyker consul, this would be redundant and flanderizing. >Or that WS should not get a special type of Detatchment for things like Bikes and they get Line on any bikes taken in that detatchmentCorrect. That sort of fundamentally game altering thing should not be exclusive to one legion. The WS are both more than just "bikes bikes bikes" and also not the only legion to have used bikes. >and they should be able to move and shoot as if they stood still?That is also already the DG legion trait, you are describing the DG legion trait. They get to move 4" and count as if they are standing still for the purposes of heavy. >take shock assault unitsDont remember its exact composition, but im pretty sure their special detachment also already lets them do that. >>98633049His point is that he doesent want to do it because its a hassle/annoying. He doesent like that if he makes one change in his list (in changing a command choice) he now has to make more changes (via detachments/taking other command choices).
>>98633068>yes every legion had access to the same toolsGlad we agree that "legion style of warfare" is retarded and everyone could and did do everything. Some did this or that better than the others to some degree, but there is no "this is how world eaters play, it is all they do". There should not BE such a thing. You should not read what legion someone is playing and be able to figure out what their list is going to be in advance.
>>98631809ORANGE LEGION ORANGE LEGION ;__;
>>98633086>Glad we agree that "legion style of warfare" is retarded and everyone could and did do everything.Ah ok i see you are just retarded got it. Legions leveraging tools to different degrees and speicalizing in specific types of warfare has been a thing in the game since 1.0You thinking that is a bad thing is pretty clear you are just a fucking moron so, carry on anon, carry on.
>>986310571.0>3.0 20x>2.0It’s the worst of both worlds where the flavour is completely nuked from 1.0, the rules design is a mess(blame this for how 3.0 is written btw), and balancing is somehow worse than 1.0. You’re also actively punished playing anything that’s not from the legions/at all fluffy especially since points were handed out by a drunk baboon whose liver is on its last legs though if you love lascannons and dreadnoughts it’s a good and fluffy edition for you lmfao
>>98633097>Legions leveraging tools to different degrees and speicalizing in specific types of warfare"this legion is slightly better at X" is not the same as "the legion only does X, no other legion does X and should not be able to do X". You very silly person. Yes, the legions leveraged the base tools to different extents and some had predispositions towards some of them, but the whole point of "they leveraged tools differently" is that they all had the same base tools, they all did everything.
>>98633097This is your brain on nu-40k slop.
1e is an unbalanced mess, but has simply "a lot of stuff" and the most flexibility/options. If you have a magical group that avoids all of its gamebreaking issues you can have a lot of fun with very customizable stuff. 2e is an unbalanced mess with less options than 1e. Its more balanced, but still has an incredibly clear hierarchy of power between factions and units. 3e is a balanced game that has lost a lot of the customization that 1e had, it has the least options and freedom to do random stuff, but theres not as much/no utterly gamebreaking stuff. 1e (if you have a unicorn group) >3e > 2e > 1e (without a unicorn group).
>>98633111And the fact you cant understand that the way they would leverage those tools is best reflected in the use of legion specific prime and detachments is how it should be done is the problem. Yes everyone used jetbikes in the legions.That does not mean that WS for example should get their own detachment that grants bikes line1 at a bare minimum considering they highly specialized in mounted warfare, that does not mean thats the only thing they now do, it means they specialize in that specific type of warfare and specific leveraging of that asset over other legions in a way other legions could not.
>>98633133>That does not mean that WS for example should NOT get their own detachment
>>98633133>Yes everyone used jetbikes in the legions.And the WS used them more, which is why they have a special jetbike unit in the golden keshig.
>>98633142>Anons out here really thinking a single unit is all the flavor you need for an army.
>>98632783>>98632765>3.0 is the only edition in which destroyer squads are actually goodI celebrate Destroyers' improved utility as if you lacked anti-infantry, but I weep the fact they released and entire ecosystem of Disintegrator weapons and Destroyers' got NONE of them. It's all on Veterans, who themselves got those and diversified into several much-needed flavors.Destroyer weapons should have gone to Destroyers first, Veterans second. And should have remained AP2, for that matter.
>>98633155>but I weep the fact they released and entire ecosystem of Disintegrator weapons and Destroyers' got NONE of them.Yeah this part fucks me up something fierce. DESU though i really dont like the entire introduction of the D guns, they feel shitty, and Plasma got nerfed to justify D guns existences for like, no real good reason either.
>>98633151It is enough to represent their greater degree of specialization, yes. The WS legion trait is also already better on bikes than other units, since they have more movement with which to react and take advantage of it. These two things combined are more than enough to represent "the legion likes bikes and does bikes more that other legions" without going into stupid "theyre the bike legion who do bikes and no one else does bikes" gimmick territory. They also (iirc) have a good aux detachment for taking bikes and jetbikes. Something retarded like "they get special rules that let them have scoring cav (which no one else gets)" is not the way to do it.
>>98633174>It is enough to represent their greater degree of specialization, yes.Ok, yeah so you are just retarded good to know.
>>98633151Not the guy but most legions entire ruleset defines their gameplay. White scars get rules that show what training they specialize in, specialized units and detachments that show what they specialize in, and have rules that directly benefit bikers/jump units the most. What’s the point of something that limits your playstyle beyond this
>>98633171What if that wasn't the case? What if plasma hadn't been nerfed, and Destroyers' (and Vets') AP2 Disintegrators coexisted with them?Big question is if they'd be too oppressive. Big answer is that AP2 plasma ought to remain Rapid Fire 1 unlike nerfed plasma of Assault 2.We cannot have Assault 2 AP2 plasma. We COULD have Rapid Fire 1 AP2 plasma...but GW decided we may not have it.
>>98633155>>98633171vanilla Destroyers should keep two bolt pistols/serpentas but get a special rule that lets them shoot you in the head with them during meleeAftermath option, special attack with breaching at the weapon's profile, whateveror hell just count casualties they cause twice for panic checks
>>98633174>These two things combined are more than enough to represent "the legion likes bikes and does bikes more that other legions" without going into stupid "theyre the bike legion"I think you could forbid White Scars from using Heavy Support Squads and none of their players would notice.I don't think we've even seen a White Scar carry a heavy bolter other than on a bike
>>98633192Genuinely my theory is more that they felt the higher level plasma guns would be too strong with saturnines and tart siege squads using plasma blasters and it’d be weird to have the weaker ones have higher stats in some places, and the changes to d guns just solidified the decision
>>98633192IMO! and this is my hot take on that matter, I think Plasma and D guns should have been handled like this>PlasmaShould be Raw AP3, overload to get Breaching 5+ overload 1 +1 strPrice increase for this.Plasma should be the premier MEQ killer with a chance to kill TEQ for a risk. >MeltaMelta should remain AP2 fuck anythign im in range of.>DgunsShould be AP3 raw, Overload 2 2 damageShould be a multi wound target killer like elites, or Vets. But that's just me.
>>98633155>Destroyers' got NONE of them>>98633171Shut up, disintegrator weapons are great. Yes even disintegrator rifles, been playing a 10 man vet tacs squad with them and they've served me well, have become a standard inclusion in my lists.Plasma did not get nerfed because of disintegrator weapons, that's retarded schizo conspiracy pychosis talk. All weapons got tuned down to reduce the lethality in the game with the exception of some weapons that were utter dogshit in previous editions Even plasma guns are still good with a point cost appropriate to their damage output. Anything above plasmaguns is downright scary, dual gravis plasma dreads are a staple in most lists for a reason.If you had said that plasma and disintegrator weapons don't live up to their power fantasy, then I would agree. The only problem is that>Basic infantry carried gun that melts through anything up to and including terminators and dreadnoughtsand>basic infantry carried gun that instantly deletes EVERYTHINGare impossible to balance. You can't put a point value on that, it's either too cheap and an auto-include, or too expensive and too much of a risk to bring, there's no sweet spot. We don't want a repeat of 7th edition 40k wraithguard with their D-weapons.
>>98633229>We don't want a repeat of 7th edition 40k wraithguard with their D-weapons.Yes we do, and they should be only in MY legion and nowhere else.
>>98633194Uh...volley is totally a thing. It's also an aftermath option too.Pistols might be the most useful they've ever been......problem is, Destroyers' bringing REGULAR Bolt Pistols, specifically, is lame. Twin Serpentas is totally fine - the problem is twin normal Bolt Pistols.Give them the same bolts used by Nemesis Destroyers and it's done.>But that's their gimmick!Nemesis Destroyers' gimmick can be shooting said (toxiferran) bolts at longer distances from a bolter, as well as going up to 20 guys plus getting 1/5 special weapons UM-codex style
>>98633194Anon, they already do that. They volley fire. >>98633235>the problem is twin normal Bolt Pistols.Those guys have their rad grenades.
>>98633234I respect your honesty.
>>98633210Nah i think it was legit nerfed to justify the use of D guns because imagine we had the original Plasma profile from 2.0 why the fuck would you want to use a D gun?D guns just confuse me because i look at the profile and the only thing i would ever want to point them at would be MEQ or other Vet units and like, there are just so many better options to take. I don think i have seen a single person ever running the D guns on their units, the pistol i think i have seen once or twice but thats it. >>98633229Eh D guns are really not that great, what targets are you hunting with them? I dont want them to delete everything, i want them to have a roll to fill, and the problem i have with D guns, is i dont see what role they fill in the game. You have Long range light armor weapons, IE Bolters and heavy boltersYou have Mid range MEQ killers, IE Plasma (or rather used to be) and then close range fuck you Melta weaponsThe d gun just feels like a red headed step child, its a multi damage weapon that is good at killing multi wound SV3 units, so vets, which just feels weird because i mean other wapons are kinda just as good at killing vets, and dont risk your own ass.
>>98633229Wow, one in five gets a disintegrator, nice! Now post the Veteran's one? Disingenuous.Give each Mortalis Destroyers an option to take a Disintegrator.Give each Mortalis Destroyer and Assault Destroyer an option to swap one of their pistols for a Disintegrator pistol.Give 1/5 Mortalis Destroyers an option to swap both pistols for a Disintegrator pistol.Give 1/5 Mortalis Destroyers and Assault Destroyers an option to get a Disintegrator BlasterGive 1/5 Mortalis Destroyers an option to get a Heavy Disintegrator.But no, one in five getting an S4 AP3 disintegrator is good enough for you, and should be good enough for everyone! I BET YOU ALSO LIKE HAVING TO BRING EXTRA CENTURIONS TO UNLOCK TRANSPORTS, GW SHILL!!
>>98633242Those guys should want to use their bolt pistols
>>98633264Also, moritats should have access to D pistols.
>>98633247First off, when you say D guns, do you mean disintegrator rifles? Because the difference between those and the heavier disintegrator weapons is quite substantial.The rifles on vets have been great for putting solid damage on anything with a 3+ save. They kill enough to force routed checks, and usually clean up squads that already got some casualties.They're especially nasty into power armour veterans and things like thallax. People are too scared of the Overload, it's only on a to hit roll of 1 and then it still needs a successful wound roll to kill one of your own guys. Everything above rifles has higher strength and AP 2, and will kill any kind of infantry including terminators. The heavy and twin heavy disintegrators can even delete light tanks when they get a shot on side armour, they're surprisingly versatile weapons.
>>98633242>They volley fire.no, in the HEADduring the fight
>>98633268They use them when volley firing.
>>98633229>basic infantry carried gun that instantly deletes EVERYTHING are impossible to balanceQuite mistaken:1. Disintegrators (S4-S5) aren't anti-everything; they're anti infantry. Anti Heavy Infantry, specifically. Even a Rhino would be a heavy counter2. Infantry can protect themselves using cover. Too bad everyone plays in Planet Parking Lot3. Terminators can tank Disintegrators using their Toughness, and then using their Invuln save. Assuming they were AP2, ofc. 1/6 chance to be killed = 1/6 chance for the operator to blow himself up.And that's assuming they were AP2, which they should be.
>>98633284>The rifles on vets have been great for putting solid damage on anything with a 3+ saveRight and thats my problem, the only thing that they really do good at with that, are 3sv units, there is alreayd so much in the game that does great into SV3 units. The only thing that sets the D gun apart is its 2 damage. Which unless you are shooting into vets, is kinda overkill. They are an answer to a problem we already have way more cheaper and more effective solutions to and dont come with the risk of melting your own ass off. To me, and this is just me, it feels like we get all of the drawn backs of 1.0 plasma, but only half the benefit of it.
>>98633295I was talking about the power fantasy for disintegrator weapons. Not the rules.iirc the earliest iteration of disintegrators had the old armourbane rule (+2D6 for armour penetration) which, combined with AP 2, meant they absolutely could one-tap a land raider.
>>98633303>it feels like we get all of the drawn backs of 1.0 plasma, but only half the benefit of it.Real plasma died to make room for this
>>98633295Well a major issue with the D gun as well is that the current rules have a hard time reflecting its historical use and power. Because remember before D guns used to be ID weapons, not just 2 damage so.
>>98633308It had Instant death. >>98633312Yeah thats been my take on it since i saw the rules for D guns at 3.0 launch. Plasma was gimped for it and even then i dont like D guns they are to much risk for not really a lot of reward.
>>98633308I would've given that to Custodian Adrasithe weapons; their balance being few in number and risking extremely valuable operators.Also, the average of 2d6 is 7. S5 Armourbane isn't that scary.Especially now that Penetrating hits don't cause Vehicle Damage, and even Rhinos get AV12. It is survivable.
>>98633303>there is alreayd so much in the game that does great into SV3 unitsBy that reasoning we might as well get rid of volkite weapons entirely as well, because all those do is kill infantry in a slightly different manner too.
>>98633336Volkite at least has a purpose though, because its S5 so you are wounding T4 on a 3 and T5 on a 4 so like you pay a little bit for a better toughness of a weapon. Dguns you dont really get anymore STR and are just as likely to kill yourself as your target which ideally should b 2w other wise why are you shooting 1w mooks with a gun that more then likely will kill yourself and cost you more points in the long run.To be D guns are a solution to a problem that does not exist in the game yet.
>>98633313>before D guns used to be ID weapons, not just 2 damageImagine they were Instant Death instead of 2D. What would this actually change?Terminators? 2W anyways. So, no change.Characters? Hidden in units, unaffected.Dreadnoughts and Combat Automata? Yeah good luck rolling a 6 to wound. And historically they had rules to protect them from ID that would still be here if ID was still here.So what would actually change? Let there be danger.
>>98633349>What would this actually change?Well in the context of 1.0 it was a lot because IIRC it also negated FNP.In the context of 3.0 it would fuck over anything with EW, 3W+ models as well. So it would make them SUPER good at character killing, or elite killing. But overall in the context of 3.0 not much because they also nerfed FNP into the ground.
>>98633349>good luck rolling a 6 to woundOn vets who fire 10 shots that hit on a 2+? Yes it's very likely there will be at least one 6 to wound in there. And are we completely ignoring everything heavier than rifles again? Because the strength of D weapons goes up to 9.
>>98633362>nerfed FNP into the ground.How exactly? Because in HH you still roll FnP per wound, regardless of how high the damage. And there is nothing that negates FnP any more. Not trying to be mean, but you're sounding like a nogames who hasn't even done a cursory glance at the rules.
>>98633364>Goes up to STR 9Yeah but because they got rid of ID anything over S7 is pointless unless you are using Anti armor weapons which is S10 and greater.
>>98633336Unironically I do not bother with Volkite: everything already kills infantry, why pay extra? Because volkite looks cool.That is the entire reason. I used (effectively) BS5 Volkite on Lerneans back when they could use a Volkite Culverin.It was "okay". They could kill Tacticals "fine".It was also a massive waste to have Lerneans kill Tacticals, but they were in range.So they charged like the melee unit they are, and I lamented the fact they were locked to using axes, because axes were stupid back in the day.I now give them Banestrike Bolters, and rage that it costs +10 pts to upgrade a combi-bolter just the same as it costs to upgrade a regular bolter.This is why Terra must fall.
>>98633371FNP before just existed if you had an apoth in the unit, now you gotta spend a reaction point to just reduce the damage by 1. It got nerfed into the ground because you need to spend a very limited resource for a very slim chance for it to matter.
Volkite would have a purpose against T5 unarmored hordes.Fact: Volkite is good... against ORKS
>>98633376That isn't FnP you retard. Those are recovery rolls. What you mean is that the access to FnP got reduced, FnP itself is stronger than ever.
>>98633372Do you only play against people who use power armoured marines and tanks exclusively, or are you just a nogames?
>>98633362>So it would make them SUPER good at character killingI already told you characters hide among units and cannot be targeted. If a character is alone, he's already dead. Omaewa mo shindeiru.>or elite killingA gun to kill Custodes? Sign me the fuck up: the current problem is that you have to spam meltas to kill them.You know, the meltas that come in squads of 10 on TSS. Ironically harder to mass than Destroyers (Heavy Assault) or Veterans (Elites)
>>98633379Orks are T4 though.>B-but in current edition...Shut. Orks are toughness 4.
>>98633364>And are we completely ignoring everything heavier than rifles again?We unironically are, because they are very rare, found on only a couple of units.Even in my own proposal I restricted them to 1 in 5 Mortalis Destroyers, with Assault Destroyers getting none.If it were up to me, I wouldn't let Heavy Veterans take any.But now that you mention it, sure. Let's make Heavy Disintegrators S6. I wouldn't mind.And it seems you would have issue with them remaining S9, so you'd support this proposal, wouldn't you?
>>98633379Longing for GW to stop being cowards and put a a great crusade supplement to introduce orks, eldar, and build a xeno workshop codex.Couldn't be me. >>98633380Yeah they nerfed it by removing access to it, in fact i cant even think of anything that has FNP baked into it. >>98633384I mean, most things in teh game are T4, so anything beyond S6 is kinda pointless since ID is no longer a ruleTerminators are T5 which S7 is gonna still be wounding on 2s. Then the only thing i can think of with T6 or 7 would be saturnine and dreads and i only know 1 dude outta the like 12 in our group that runs them. Then yes everyone else is running tanks that S7 and 8 dont really do shit against unfortunately. >>98633390I mean DESU if the one problem that D guns solved was custodes i would make a 3k list just for spamming them to fight custode players.
>>98633400And Str 3 I assume? Xd lmao-tse tung
>>98633374Lernaean have never been locked to axes. Not in the rules anyway.
>>98633384Using marines and marine vehicles on the Marine vs Marine game? Throne say it ain't so!
>>98633413>Let's make Heavy Disintegrators S6Lmao, you actually don't have a fucking clue about the current rules and stats. Should have know you were a troll.
>>98633428I wasn't going to pay 15 pts per power fist lmao. Their melee options were totally mispriced
>>98633447You should have. This is all on you.
>>98633449>Their melee options were totally misspricedThat they were. Lernaean also got their WS nerfed in that edition for no apparent reason. I blame John French.
>>98633447Disregard that guy. Heavy Disintegrators should be anti-everything guns. You know, the very thing people feared Disintegrator guns would be
>>98633464He should be stopped
>>98633390Plasma, laser destroyers and seeker bolters all kill custodes well.
>>98633049>And what exactly is the problem with bringing one more command? There's so many dirt cheap options that also provide incredible utility. What is it that makes it so you absolutely can not take more than one praetor, one command?I don't want to bring multiple HQ, I don't have where to put them.
>>98632609nta but played since red books and I agree, 2ed>3edThird is just a shit show, 2.0 felt like an evolution of the 7.5ed that was late 1.0 heresy. Third feels like it's a new game to simply be a new game, and it punishes long time players and their collections. It is without soul. >Inb4 2.0 is bestTake me back to late 1st ed heresy please
>>98633944>Third feels like it's a new game to simply be a new gameThat incidentally fixes most if not all the major issues with 2e and 1e. How serendipitous.
>>98633944>2.0 felt like an evolution of the 7.5ed that was late 1.0 heresyYes, but the issue is that it was badIt did many things "right", it tried to play around with statlines (2w terminators), it tried to make dreads work, it tried to have weapons be differentiated. But it did it poorly and was a mess, and you only get so many points for trying.
>>98633071>No, they already have a legion trait that represents their greater predisposition towards psykers and a bespoke psyker consul, this would be redundant and flanderizing.Why not let all legions have access to a baseline series of RoWs, and then legion specific RoWs? So you can be baseline capable with anything available to a legion, but better at what your legion specializes in?Oh wait, that's what 2.0 had and you're too bitch made to admit that it's not taking anything away to add legion specific RoWs>Correct. That sort of fundamentally game altering thing should not be exclusive to one legion. The WS are both more than just "bikes bikes bikes" and also not the only legion to have used bikes.Give all legions a series of baseline RoWs that mildly buff, or enable all styles of gameplay, but let WS be the Best at Bikes, AL the best at infiltrating ranged shenanigans units, WE best at suicidal melee, SW best at Scout/Outflank melee, IW best at killing enemy armor, IH best at shrugging off enemy damage, UM best at flexibility/not being statused etcI am skipping over the disintegrator conversation, they should have had access like >>98633155 said
>>98633997>Give all legions a series of baseline RoWs that mildly buff, or enable all styles of gameplayOr, and hear me out here, you just have those styles of gameplay be viable because the units are useful and intuitively lend themselves to specific styles of gameplay, and then have some legions enhance various units through their base traits. Oh wait, thats what 3e does.
>>98633959>>986339722.0 had issues but was better than 3.0. Dreads, Lascannons, WS chart, and some legion units needed balancing but a 2.5 heavy FAQ, or even the equivalent as a new edition, would've been healthier than the 3.0 launch. They killed their game. Every community I have talked to (in the US) about this has said that their community was fractured almost in half, half sticking with 2.0, half moving to 3.0, with a large section simply dropping the game entirely. Texas, Midwest, West Coast, etc. It was an absolute shit show, and it is uncontestable that if they hadn't changed it as much that the state of the game currently would be much healthier. Let alone, they promised it wouldn't be a massive change to the game.
>>98634017>or even the equivalent as a new editionWhich is what 3e is. Because by the time you fix all of 2es issues you do not have a game system remotely similar to 2e, because 2e had a LOT of issues. This is of course if you want the issues fixed, rather than just some bandaids like "dreadnoughts +50pts, lascannons +10pts" which do nothing to address the systemic problems but nerf some easy outliers.
>>98633944It seems people who prefer 3rd either play with people who are under 30, or autistic adults who instead of making a fun flavorful army list for a narrative game go full WAACfag and spam gay shit (your standard AL player).Of course both editions had broken stuff, adults with functioning brains realize it's not fun to wreck the game by making a broken list. If it takes a handholding version of the game for them to enjoy it w/e I guess, just don't pretend it's as flavorful, or the same game.
>>98634017Thats a lovely anecdote anon.
>>98634008>you just have those styles of gameplay be viable because the units are useful and intuitively lend themselves to specific styles of gameplay, and then have some legions enhance various units through their base traits.>Oh wait, thats what 3e does.Reddit spacing asideYes but also no, the lack of RoWs that mildly buff or enable specific styles of gameplay actually de-incentivizes people from trying those styles of gameplay, and pushes players towards more generic all comers lists because the units.By their intrinsic properties as being different that others for example bikes versus preds, players will choose some over the others more consistently without a RoW that elevates some to a similar level of usefulness as the other. If you buff the baseline Bike to be as useful in Anti-Tank as a Predator, you actually devalue both by making them not specialized. But if you add a RoW that enables the Bike to be taken in more slots, you can overcome the lack of anti-tank capability by sheer numbers, allowing both to be specialized in their own regards but enabling flavorful lists at the same time holy shit you are retarded this is just bait isn't it
>>98634038Im sorry but this is incoherent. Youre talking about a hypothetical ROW that what, buffs bikes to be as good at anti tank as predators? Because thats just nonsense, yea, no duh bikes do not have the same weapons as a predator, theyre very different units. But yes, units have strengths and weaknesses and a list that focusses heavily on one unit type will struggle with the things that unit type is bad against. That isnt a flaw of the system, thats things working as they should. When you take say, mass bikes or mass vehicles or mass terminators you are going all in on their strengths AND their weaknesses, thats how that works and should work. >But if you add a RoW that enables the Bike to be taken in more slotsAnon the current FOC lets you take as many bikes as you want. Which was the ACTUAL functional necessity of rows, that with the old style force org you couldnt build meme lists because you had only so many elites or fast attack or heavy support slots and mandatory troops choices. You do not now, you can build your all terminators or all bikes or all tanks list already.Are you fucking stupid?
>>98634052But also: Are you so stupid that you think "we should have ROW designed to make X unit good, surely this will be fine!" has no 2nd order consequences? Do you think that say, a unit balanced to be taken in a proper army is going to work well in that sort of spam list? Of course it wont. Because you have now introduced whatever arbitrary buffs to a unit that did not need them. So either you have entire unit categories balanced around dedicated spam lists, rendering them largely useless in a proper force, or you have horrendously overtuned skew armies running around abusing buffs they have no business getting. There is no winning there, both outcomes are horrendoues for the balance and overall design of a game. The strength of tank spam is that you have lots of tanks, the weakness of tank spam is that you have not a lot of much else to compensate for any weaknesses tanks may have. The strength of bike spam is that you have lots of bikes, the weakness of bike spam is that you have not a lot of much else to compensate for any weaknesses bikes may have. The strength of terminator spam is that you have lots of terminators, the weakness of terminator spam is that you have not a lot of much else to compensate for any weaknesses terminators may have. That is the system working as intended, that is the ONLY way this sort of arrangement should ever work. The benefit of a unit is the unit itself.
>>98634008>Oh wait, thats what 3e does.BULLSHIT I have to bring extra HQ just to afford my transports. 3e don't do shit right lmao.1E with Gray Legions is more flavorful then the soullessness of 3E
>>98634022All 2E needed was a bandaid indeed. 3E killed the patient and brought in a new dying body
2E being wrong nd needing fixing doesn't mean 3E is right or that it is the fix we needed.Instead of solving the problems, 3E ditched all that came before and replaced it with a set of bland new problems.Dedicated transports, gone. Now you need extra HQ if you don't want to walk.Fix the problem of vehicles exploding with a lucky 6 (good)...now only Glances roll on the Damage chart, and dome weapons can't inflict statuses on vehicles at all. Lascannons do a single damage if they move (wtf?), and Meltas went from penetrating AV14 50% of the time to only on 1/6.Build up a robust Challenge system, then leave 90% of duelists (sarges) out of it. No, I'm not using a Prime to buy him a ticket back in - he already used to be in!Build up a new system, then refuse to engage with it. That is 3E, and that's why it sucks.
>>986340222.0E issues were balance related, not structurally related. There are things 3.0 did i really really like, blast changes and vehicle changes. 2.0 had good bones, but poor rules on those bones that were widely unbalanced, see loyalist rules vs traitor rules.
>>98634204>Good bones>Reserve rules that needed several pages of errata to clear up how everything was suppose to workBones as good as a victorian child that had never seen sunlight lmfao.
>>98634236As if 3E wasn't the verbose edition. So much yapping people suspected it was written by ai
>>98634247Nogames and tourists aren't people.
>>98634255He is not wrong, look at the fucking rules for over heat, a rule that should take all of a paragraph to explain. And it takes a fucking page to do so. The other issue i have with how 3.0 rules are written is that a lot of the rule summaries just out right fucking lie. See search light rules for example.
>>98634247>people suspected it was written by aiThere's literally no fucking way that it wasn't, I don't care if they lied and denied it.
>>98634367It 100% was, ill die on that hill as well, So many rules in there are turbo wordy for no reason or are written in such a way that only really make sense if you are able to constantly reference rules as if they were in step a subsection 1 paragraph i. Or some of the rules are summarized and some of those rules summarizations are just fucking wrong. I think its searchlight, the summarized text in bold says "allows attacks to ignore damage mitigation rolls" the rule then proceeds to explain how it does not actually allow you to ignore damage mitigation rolls and instead just increases the save of say smoke screen, to a maximum of 6.
>>98634390>>98634367Or another example of this is overload, They take 400 words to describe what overload does.In 7th ed, gets hot, the explanation for it, how it works with templates, and how it works with rerolls, takes fucking 250 words, and 7th ed was consistently bitched about for being to wordy.
>>98634446>>98634446>>98634446
>>98633400I don't see orks in the game.
>>98634204>2.0E issues were balance related, not structurally relatedThe balance issues of 2e are (largely) due to the structure. Dreads arent broken because theyre just undercosted (even if they were), they were broken because the unit type fundamentally did not work in the game due to how the game systems work. Brutal wasnt broken because the weapons were too cheap, it was broken because of systemic issues with how damage worked. Reactions and DS were structural issues, not something you can bandaid. Same for vehicle durability. 2es faults come down to trying to make a skeleton support something it was never meant for. It was built on the bones of a game designed for multiple different factions reduced to a marine game, and its attempts to better the system to support marine vs marine action ended up failing because the base rules were never created with that in mind. Something like "the loyalists had generally better rules" is incredibly minor issue compared to everything else 2e did wrong. A borderline non-factor.
