The /btg/ is dead! Long live the /btg/!Blakist Anime LAM Supremacy editionPrevious: >>98794348>BattleTech Introductory Guide & PDFshttps://battletech.com/qsr/>Rookie Guideshttps://tinyurl com/ydtr589ehttps://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGxhttps://files.catbox.moe/l1gjfi.jpg>Sarna.net – BattleTech Wikihttps://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page>Force Building & Unit Faction GuidesMULhttp://masterunitlist.infoXotl's Random Assignment Tableshttps://tinyurl com/fejwk5f2https://mekbay.com/?gs=cbt>Unit Design SoftwareSolaris Skunkwerkshttps://www.solarisskunkwerks.comMegaMek Labhttps://megamek.org>MegaMek – PC version of BT with bots & multiplayer!https://megamek.org>How to Play Against the Bot?https://www.mediafire.com/file/l5mqjydrgndnndu/Against_the_Bot_v4.pdf(Included in latest MekHQ docs)https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56065.0https://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5 (embed)https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rkg2sl5ybr24k/Battletech_Portrait_Packhttps://www.mediafire.com/file/a3x576yflof0ca1/MekHQ_Fluff_art.rar>Flechs Software – Digital record sheets & more!https://flechs.net>Instant Action – Play custom scenarios for tabletop!https://victorypointproductions.neocities.org/instantaction>PDF Troverebrand ly/CranstonSnordrebrand ly/SnordsStoryTimerebrand ly/CranstonLogFilesrebrand ly/CranstonSnordDropBox>Older Troves (2013-2020)https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cj0tjpn9b3n1i/Battletechhttps://tinyurl com/2p8p7cewrebrand ly/BTmags>/btg/’s own image board!https://bgb.booru.org/index.php
HONOR THE DRAGON!
How does it feel to know that 40k will always be available anywhere to play, while your game is hard to find players for? Does it upset you?
I'm going to a Halloween game at the end of the month and need stupid mechs to bring.Criteria>canon>not unique
>>98807621That was true 10 years ago, but now? I have zero issues picking up an Alpha Strike game or three at my LGS. For all of CGL's many sins, the easy entry level into current BT, classic or otherwise, has made stompy 'mechs ubiquitous. May whomever secures the table first win.
>>98807664CataphractHollanderGriffinScorpion
In terms of the most common Battle Armor for mercs by ilClan, it looks like it's the; Gladiator (S), Spectre, Dragoon, Sloth (Interdictor), Ravager by order of weight class. I'm surprised by the Dragoon being as allegedly common as it is since it would have dethroned the ISS and GDS as being the most common merc medium BA. The Sloth also still being common by ilClan is also surprising since it was one of the first designs the Inner Sphere put out, I can only imagine the ones in merc hands are knock offs and ship of theseus'd parts from third party manufacturers. There are also more PA(L) suits than I thought for mercs, the Gladiator (S) being the most common, followed by the Tunnel Rat IV and then the Smoothdavid III.
>>98807664Stupid, eh?HollanderUrbanMechChargerBlack Watch
>>98807621If we have trouble finding a game, we have multiple ways of playing it solo. Either in video game with the fanmade MegaMek that allows for an insanely in-depth Campaign system or just an automated instant action game against some AI that's fairly decent, or the option to play ACEs for an automated opponent. And while it's currently Alpha Strike on the official side, it doesn't take that much to have it working in Classic.And these are naturally only if you are having trouble getting into contact with people. Classic can be a bit daunting, but if you got like four models for both players and a kitchen table you can run a decent game of it. Alpha Strike you want a bit more room and a few more models but it's not that many more (like a small game would be 8 models across both sides in lance vs lance) and you can also run their introduction via ACEs since that's setup for Co-Op as well which tends to be easier to get people to stick with. Especially since the box for all the ACEs stuff includes a Chaos Campaign.>>98807664If you have them, the Battletech Gothic Mechs, being fought because someone on one end or another made a misjump.If you want to go more conventional, Clan Omnimechs but you specifically the configurations that are the most Meth'd up possible.
>>98807664BattleaxeSwordsmanPhoenixEmperor
>>98807675Ah, the wolverine faggot seethes at his inferiority, once again.GRIFFIN UBER ALLES.
>>98807964>laughs in Kurita
>>98807988>literally a worse, retarded downie griffin
>>98807516>Blakist Anime LAM Supremacy editionThat's actually brought up something I've been meaning to ask. So I've been curious about LAM speed in ASF mode when I started looking into ASFs in general and saw that the speeds don't actually match up with how Mech speed works. I might be wrong but it seems like ASF speeds are always 2 speeds higher than wmthry would be on a mech with the same engine rating. >30 ton Stinger LAM for example moves 6/9, but a 30 ton ASF with the same 180 rated engine is at 8/12>50 ton PH LAM moves 5/8, a 50 ton ASF moves 7/11 with the same 250 rated engineIs the equation for ASF movement really just calculating 'Mech movement then raise it up two movement speeds, or is there a more exact calculation?And for LAMs specifically, I only see fluff of LAMs being slower than ASF in Jihad sourced stuff. Was this another Herb retcon or was it always like this?
Axman 5r is just mean.Clan lrm15s, Artemis.Clan large pulse laserClan medium pulse lasers.Clan xlfe. And a small enough magazine for the lrms that you can conceivably empty them before armour is stripped.
Why is the Marauder so much cooler than the Marauder II?
>>98808137Actually the latest falcons, the ones with the conformal fuel tanks that make the falcon look like some kind of smiling demon now when you look at it, also have helmet boresight. That is you can lock on your short range a2a missiles via your helmet onto whatever you're looking at. Allowing you to shoot your missiles behind you.Its part of the tech from developing the fucking f35.
>>98808157Marauder II 6A exists. is general. Merc .You are wrong.
>>98807516The Waneta proves that the 3 mode transformation system is dumb. It looks so bad with the pilot being in the crotch and there being no visible sensor box for a head on top; it very much looks wrong because it has no head. If they just kept its nose pointing straight forwards it would look great.
>>98808137Herb did change how they convert, but I don't think it actually impacted any canon designs. In old rules they had a thrust equal to walk speed and an "over thrust" equal to run, in Herb's rules they have a safe thrust equal to jump speed and a maximum thrust that's 1.5 times that, which works out the same for everything since they all maxed out their jump distances anyway.Under construction rules, ASF are given a small discount to their engine rating, in that it's engine rating = tonnage X (safe thrust -2), while mechs (and therefore LAMs) have engine rating = tonnage X (walk), and then their jump limit is derived from there.
>>98808251The Waneta is the coolest looking one cause it has a gun. It's the only LAM I bothered buying as a Wobbie player
>>98808251If they wanted to simplify LAM designs, they could just have later LAMs run off Torso Mounted cockpit rules. Maybe a revival of the Two Mode System, where Mech mode is basically just using Mech speeds when walking/jumping, but having access to Airmech movement at the cost of accuracy if you need to haul ass across the maps.That way you can streamline later designs so they're less complex/'anime' and is more like a really fast chicken walker.
>>98808259Actually, double checking it looks like there are a couple of LAMs with w/r/j along the lines of 6/9/5 or 5/8/3, but they might post-date the rule changes. If they predate them though, then they got slowed down in ASF mode.
>>98808174>Introduced during the Dark Age this variant carries an ER PPC and medium X-pulse laser in each arm, while the torso weapon mount carries an Ultra autocannon/10 with three tons of ammunition in a CASE protected bay. Powered by a light fusion engine and equipped with a compact gyro, the 'Mech is protected by nineteen tons of armor and carries eighteen double heat sinks. BV (2.0) = 2,367[23]That's barely better than the 5A. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty good, but it's not "mic dropped". The -5S mogs it, for example.
>>98807964>status of the thread Griffinfag: baited with advantageLoser
>>98808450Your mech is shit and you know it. It only stops being ass when it pretends to be a griffin
>>98808450>hahahaha it was a joke you fell for my joke haha im so funny
>>98808427Its the least vulnerable, most highest tech new3st mad ii, and everyone can have it. Everyone.
>>98808474It's a good Mech, but it's not good enough to make the MAD II cooler than the MAD.
>>98808501It so is.None of the newest marauders are as good. Or are critically failed by like, ISXLFE or something crucial.
Glaug is king
>>98808251>It looks so bad with the pilot being in the crotch and there being no visible sensor box for a head on topThe problem isn't the 3 mode transformation system. The problem is that Huda is fucking shit at art.
What's the smarter play with an Overlord's ASF complement? Six of one type, or a mix of frames?
>>98807516>quickdraw>supposed to be a replacement for the rifleman The fuck? The Quickdraw is probably one of the WORST choices for AA work, what was the design team smoking?
>>98808840Generally big fatties are better in space because they can accelerate infinitely to any speed you need and you have to actually break their armor to kill them, but quick dogfighters are better in atmosphere because you can plink anything into lawndarting, so the play is to shove as many medium lasers as possible up their tailpipe and hope they fail a PSR.
>>98808537No. In universe the Maurader was plagued with issues, and in game a single crit can nuke the fucking thing.
>>98808854It wasn't meant to be a "replacement" but rather kind of an "opposite" or complement to it. It's meant to be a 60 tonner that excells at everything the Rifleman lacks.
>>98808880You sound like a salty Taurian
>>98808945You sound like a fucking cunt who should kill their whole family and then themselves because you're a shit person who fucking doesn't know who the cutting game works and I hope you and everyone you know fucking dies you fucking barmy cuntasaurus.
>>98808854I thought Jagermech was supposed to be that
>>98807524
>>98808954>having a melty over the SLDF's weapon of choiceYep, a Taurian loser, cry moar
>>98808955JagerMech is a Rifleman replacement with less heat trouble.
>>98808854>>98808938I don't think they were ever really meant to complement each other, like how the Centurion was originally designed to provide close-range firepower to screen for the Trebuchet (although one of the TROs mentions some heavy lances being set up that way because it turned out to be a decent strategy) but rather the Quickdraw was meant to replace the Rifleman as the go-to 60 ton mech not for AA duty, but in general, as the needs of the modern battlefield changed and mech vs mech engagements became more common. The Rifleman was one of the earliest mechs to see mass production. The "Proliferation Era" was still ongoing and while the Terran Hegemony hadn't had a monopoly on mech technology for a while by then, it was still expected that any enemy they were likely to face wouldn't have anywhere near the number or quality of mechs they could field. But as time went on, mech warfare escalated and Riflemen often found themselves pressed into service against other mechs despite not being designed for it. The Quickdraw was made to be a mech of comparable size and price point that was designed from the ground up for mech on mech warfare.
First Earth got a mechAnd that was good'Cause we love peace and motherhood
>>98809013Then Steiner got a mechBut that's OK'Cause the balance of power's maintained that wayWho's next?
>>98807964The Griffin will always merely be a Gladiator knockoff
>>98808854Original phrasing is that it was 'designed as the most likely replacement for the Rifleman support vehicle.' Doesn't necessarily mean it was designed to fulfill the exact same AA role, especially if the rifleman was found wanting in actual, practical usage, which it was.
>>98809018Davion got a mechBut don't you grieve'Cause they're on our side... I believe
>>98809031Marik got a mechBut have no fearsThey'll be using it on themselves in the next five yearsWho's next?
>>98809025>>98808854Also notable, the original TRO 3025 states that the rifleman's primary role was fire support, and antiaircraft a secondary duty.
>>98809035We'll try to stay calm and relaxedWhen Canopian cat girl(?)sGet some mechs
>>98807928>If you want to go more conventional, Clan Omnimechs but you specifically the configurations that are the most Meth'd up possible.So, U-configs?>Why'd you bring torpedos and UMU to a desert fight, anon?
>>98808966>SLDF>dies>Taurians>still around Curious.
>>98809055Taurians here, leave us alone if you want to return home.
>>98808880Back in the old days there were no engine heat sinks, and thus its ammo did actually have crit padding.Also: flawed mech designs are more fun anyway.
>>98809182You mean the Calderon Protectorate, of course
>>98808259>in Herb's rules they have a safe thrust equal to jump speed and a maximum thrust that's 1.5 times that, which works out the same for everything since they all maxed out their jump distances anyway.Isn't that Airmech mode? ASF mode seems to just be 'Mech Walking speed without the discount that regular ASF get. Regardless, I don't think I've ever heard about LAMs being a problem in Aerospace mechanics, seems like a simple change to just give them ASF calculated speed when in ASF mode.
>>98809194So Calderón's getting tenseWants some in self defenseThey got good frigatesJust ask TexBut just in caseYou better get some mechs
>>98809194So when's the last time Taurus actually unequivocally won a war against another power that was actually relevant?
>>98809450NTA but didn't they fight off a Davion invasion relatively recently in the timeline?
>>98809471They started that war (like the retards they are) and they ended up losing a significant chunk of territory, though they gained some too.
>>98808880>In universe the Maurader was plagued with issuesHuh? The only thing I recall is it getting targeted for being a commander's ride, but that's an issue with the concept of issuing a distinctive mech to commanders, not the mech itself.
>>98809480No? Hasek started the war and lost the FedSuna any claim to the Pleiades Cluster, and the whole thing started from an Andurien psyop.Actually we might not be talking about the same thing. I'm talking about the Pleiades War in 3151
>>98809556I was talking about the Jihad era one. I actually entirely forgot that war even existed.
>>98809556>FedSuna
>>98809558No worries
>>98809502The sensor array in front of the cockpit (not really present in any of the modern versions of the design) was mentioned to restrict the pilot's vision, the the linkage of the dorsal autocannon was mentioned to be a weak point (IIRC this is reflected in the quirks).
>>98809013Well the TauriansHate the DavionsAnd the DavionsHate the KuritansAnd the SteinersHate the MariksAnd everybody hates LiaoBut duringNational Brotherhood WeekNational Brotherhood WeekSee Nasty K and Bounty Hunter dancing cheek to cheekCome break some bread with folksYou think should get the ropeYou can drive that Firestarter a week from now
>>98807621>How does it feel to know that 40k will always be available anywhere to play, while your game is hard to find players for?Dude, Battletech meets way more at my FLGS...
>>98809343Airmech mode gets WiGE-like cruise movement equal to three times jump and flank equal to 1.5 times cruise.
>>98807516Saw this at /pw/ of all places and he's just a sexy boy
>>98807621As someone who abandoned 40k for battletech it doesn't matter to me at all. I only play with my personal friends so finding a game has never been an issue.
>>98810283SCISSOR ME, ILKHAN ASS!
>>98810282And the reason it's WiGE-like and not actual WiGE is that it's riddled with exceptions such as being able to gain height and maintain flight across multiple turns. A WiGE can throw itself off a cliff and stay at the same level until its movement ends, then it drops to just above the ground. A LAM can hover and even go up.
>>98810283Of course Shawn Michaels would pilot a Hunchback. He's a talentless hack that just shoots the AC/20 constantly and prays he won't end up like his friend Kevin Nash in the sweltering heat of a back alley in the summer of '92. Well Shawn, when you step into the ring with me, you'll find out that you'll never even get within range of me to miss your AC/20 shot. That's just what happens when you go up against The Hitman, the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be!
>>98810379Why did they use WiGE instead of VTOL, anyway? Isn't the latter closer to where all the exceptions cause LAMs to end up?
>>98810300>I only play with my personal friends so finding a game has never been an issue.This is the way.
>>98810379Do they still make you pay movement to go down in height for LAM's? Because, the original RAW was horseshit!
>>98810420That's a nice compact way to make turret record sheets.
>>98810413*GONG*
>>98810418Yes, but VTOL is better since it gets its full movement speed at any height, while WiGE spends 2 MP to move one hex if it's more than 1 level above the ground and has to fully turn around to move backwards. Also VTOL spends 1 MP to take-off, WiGE spends 5. VTOLs hover by just not moving, LAMs hover by spending 5 MP to remain in place. The LAM exceptions don't change any of these. You seeing a pattern here? A Herb shaped pattern?
>>98810429Descending is free.
>>98810465Considering the number of exceptions needed to translate WiGE, it does sound like VTOL with a quick list of modified movement costs would have still been easier for them (not even considering player-side) to work with.
>>98810478Asking because it wasn't in Megamek last time I used LAM's a couple years ago.
>>98810479Honestly, I think it would have been about the same. A lot of the exceptions do just make it like VTOL, but if it was VTOL with exceptions, then there would still be a big list of exceptions that make it more like WiGE.The biggest difference would be that the contempt would be more naked. As it stands, it's "WiGE but better" so the exceptions are positive. If they had written it as "VTOL but worse", it would be mechanically identical but all the exceptions would be telling you how it sucks in comparison to regular VTOL.
>>98810420That a lot of fucking Awesomes down there. How the Rangers looking?
>>98809182Got him. Plus they built the Marauder.
>>98810498Well, the grey Gargoyle just stackpoled. Blue and white minis are Lyran, the red, olive, and blue/red minis are Ranger.
>>98810688Fire lance getting run the fuck down. Did they stand on top of one of the reinforcement entrances or something.
>>98810741>Did they stand on top of one of the reinforcement entrances or something.Yes.
>>98810413>>98810283>THEY SAY ALL MECHWARRIORS ARE CREATED EQUAL, BUT YOU LOOK AT ME AND YOU LOOK AT SOLAHMA JOE, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE. SEE NORMALLY, YOU GO ONE ON ONE WITH ANOTHER MECHWARRIOR, YOU GOT A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING. BUT I'M A GENETIC FREAK, AND I'M NOT NORMAL, SO YOU GOT A 25% AT BEST OF BEATING ME. AND THEN YOU ADD KURITA ANGLE TO THE MIX? YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING DRASTIC GO DOWN.
>>98810837We'll file that under oof moments. What config is the Dire Wolf in, C? Might have a chance if relief arrives fast enough.
>>98810915>Dire WolfI only see a Linebacker in red, friend. Also, have to mention how sweet it is to see a built and painted old Maelstrom.
Is coming to a game with 2 schrek PPC, and 2 demolisher tank a asshole move
>>98810884>The pendulum on which Terra rotates on is going to be at a 51 degree axis, Sol to the right, and Strana Mechty to the left, i'come down with a furious vengeance... And I'm going to eclipse your ass!Alaric Ward is Scott Steiner
>>98811075Depends on the specific game. Are you playing a dude whose running a pair of Stingers, a Vulcan, and a Vindicator? Then yes. Are you bringing them to a game like this? Not really.
>>98811058Fuck, that it is. For some reason that always fucks me up in mini form.
>>98811114Basically I want to bring one heavy / assault lance, one mechanized lance (with the schreks and demolishers and one scout lance, for a 10k game
>>98811080Scott Steiner-Davion, surely.
Gentlemen, I just needed you to know today, I didn't have the extra two bucks. Or enough for the rest of it.So post your favorite Frankenmechs!
Mechs I've painted up so far over 2/3 months.Working on a small army of vedettes and hovertanks as well.Amateur at minipainting but I am having fun.
>>98811428It is ok to buy mechs off aliexpress?
>>98811428>Front right lanceRadical!
>>98811497Those are TITANS colors if I've ever seen them.
>>98811497>>98811501You know, I never noticed before how similar they were. I wonder if that's intentional, given how a lot of American cartoons of the period outsourced their animation to studios in Japan and South Korea.
>>98811482Most of them are 3d printed so I dunno bout that.>>98811497Good idea for another paint scheme thanks, but as anon says those are TITANS inspired dracs.
Questions:Do you guys really play with 4/5s as gunnery/piloting skills?Do you use mech and/or pilot quirks? If so, do you use only “official noted quirks” or do you add/remove your own?Do you play with the updated or classic rules?I ran several campaigns via Megamek the past 10 years and often gave my Veteran players 3/3 P&G skills plus pilot quirks and mech quirks. OPFOR would get the same for the most part, depending on the mission.Most of the “extra” rules (drifting smoke, fires, terrain modifiers, target modifiers like glancing blow/direct hit, mech coolant, etc) are enabled as well.Hidden units, mines, field guns, turrets, various types of infantry, capturing pilots or being captured…added stress/excitement.I find that this makes for a much more “skill” based play vs “lucky die roll” play ( which still happens). I believe it rewards players who utilize terrain/movement/mech capabilities and risk analysis well.RNGesus is still a bastard at times and Princess can be a complete bitch (in a good way…mostly). Megamek also eases combined arms, so most of my missions included that. The mech vs mech only battles were rare.Creating a single mission for a campaign could take hours if not days, and gameplay on that mission the same. If a player had to leave due to RL, the transfer of control to another player in Megamek was a simple as tabletop.The ability to switch a unit from ally to traitor mid-mission was slick and appreciated on several occasions. Do you allow for custom units? To what extent?Examples of players custom mechs: SHD-2K Shadow Hawk retains its RA medium laser.QKD-4M QuickDraw - all weapons same locations all forward firing arc.Hermes II AC-5/ammo replaced with CT large laser and heat sinks/armor.OTL-5M Ostsol AMS swapped for ECM, LPLs for ERLLs, MPLs to MLs with remaining tonnage to armor.What era(s) do you normally play in?
>>98811482It's not going to be much cheaper than the alternatives and way lower quality. Either buy them straight from the guy printing them, send the file to a print service, or buy singleton from the guy on ebay.
>>98811573>Do you guys really play with 4/5s as gunnery/piloting skills?Yes, standard. My lance commanders and better folks are better, and I use 3/4 Clanner standard mechwarriors and 5/6 Clanner tankers too.>Do you use mech and/or pilot quirks?Some. Always use no/minimal arms, anti-air, quad turret, extended actuators etc. Don't use narrow profile, cowl, command mech except sometimes.>Do you play with the updated or classic rules?It's all classic, technically? Unless you mean when they went back to just calling Battletech actually Battletech in like 2011 a couple years after Wizkids stopped forcing them to use the word classic? Or if you mean the new update, haven't got a copy of that book yet.>Do you allow for custom units? To what extent?Campaigns. If they got the techs and time, they can roll the dice. Otherwise, I'm the one usually generating customs for them to fight against.>What era(s) do you normally play in?My players are diehard 2990's maximum grogtech, but I keep trying to push them into more modern stuff even with some fun casual pickup. I've had a good 3130's low tech DA campaign on the back burner for a long time.
>>98811546Meant to say most of them I 3d printed.
>>98811573>Do you guys really play with 4/5s as gunnery/piloting skills?Depends on the BV and the lance I'm trying to bring. I like paying for 3/4 if I can.>Do you use mech and/or pilot quirks? If so, do you use only “official noted quirks” or do you add/remove your own?If it's a campaign I like to use mech quirks, I think SPAs are generally too strong. For pickup play, no.>Do you play with the updated or classic rules?I use total warfare, so which ever you consider that. The Core book isn't actually out yet, tho everyone has a leaked PDF at this point.>Do you allow for custom units? To what extent?Never, but that's just due to half my players being munchkins. I tire of the same LRM5 or mlas boats. I've considered coming up with a more restrictive customization system than the one in Campaign Ops, but I haven't fiddled with it yet.>What era(s) do you normally play in?3030s or Dark Age.
>>98811682>The Core book isn't actually out yet, tho everyone has a leaked PDF at this point.Street date was almost a month ago, I've had a copy for three weeks.
>>98811682>dark age Militiamech slugfests and freight transports repurposed as raiders are just fun
>>98811737Haro, efurrynyan. Howah you, fine san-Q.
>>98811894Oh mah gawd!
>>98811541Apparently the uniforms in that were based on Neil Sedaka's outfit.
>>98807621The same way I play niche RPGs? I just introduce my normie friends or existing wargaming friends to the shit I wanna play. That, and in my area I started a btg club that has an average attendance of 8-10 a week. The city an hour over also has a club, though it’s a more grognard crowd. I assume it varies a lot by location but if I really had nobody interested I’d just play ACES because I love the game and universe.
>>98811573>Do you guys really play with 4/5s as gunnery/piloting skills?I buy the mechs I want first, and if there is BV left over begin putting it where it's most useful in skill increases until I run out. Usually that comes out to 4/4 on the fat dude I don't want to fall over and 3/5 on the jumpy boi to augment its pulse lasers and/or 3/5 for the missile boat. If I'm using a mech I've painted as a character I'll try to stat it out as elite, but that's pretty rare for me.>Do you use mech and/or pilot quirks?No.>Do you play with the updated or classic rules?My group has switched to the new Core Rules. We've only got one holdout.
Most battlemechs are light mechs, so all battletech groups should thus enforce house rules that ensure that the majority of their games feature majority light mechs. Assault mechs are rare, therefore they should be rarely seen in battletech games.
>>98812221no that's medium mechs
>>98812221Sorry bro, I play the Centauri Lancers. Battalion command is dropping 2 grasshoppers, a royal Battlemaster and a Royal Stalker on you.
Can I ask about the HBS video game in here? I got a duplicate story mission and I don't know if that's going to be an issue
>>98811269For a 10k game, your opponent should be able to deal with a set of tanks, even big ones. Once you get beyond one lance, you have less excuse of "that's outside my mission profile"
>>98811269>>98812376I think it depends on the era. In later eras 10k might not get you that much modern stuff but in 3025 10k can get you 8+ good mechs easily.
>>98812330You’re fine. Tell sammy hagar osterman i said Hi
>>98812414It also really depends on how good your pilots are. If you get 2/3 or even 3/4 pilots in a heavy clan mech, you can easily hit 3-4k BV per mech.
>>98812221Never mistake commonality of one thing for rarity of another. The fact that most recon-in-force and scouting actions are bugmechs is a function of the massive fuckton of bugmechs going on recon-in-force and scouting across the entire inner sphere.I guarantee every day of the week there is an Atlas getting into a fistfight with a Warhammer; only during Third Succ they probably were taking weekends off.
>>98812221Most light mechs are destroyed immediately upon contact, so it evens out.
How many people could fit in a battlemech cockpit? I know it's cramped, but could a determined mechwarrior make enough space to allow for another person to suck his dick in the cockpit?
>>98812547You can squish 2 into a Warhammer's cockpit as long as they're fit and naked.Source: Star Lord
>>98812551So cockpitplay is canon?
>>98812561If novels are canon, I guess.
do mechwarriors shit themselves or do they have toilets in the cockpit
>>98812593IS mechs have small toilets in the cockpit. No flush required, the reactor just burns up any shit or piss. Clan mechs don't have toilets because clanners are fucking retarded, so they shit in bags and piss in bottles.
>>98812593This is the kind of question you can get answered on the wiki, why burn post count on it?
>>98812593Good question, I'm not sure that's ever been addressed. Any grog got an answer to this? I know how tankers handle it but mechwarrior undies don't have a back hatch.
>>98812609Well hell, now I feel dumb.
>>98812547Many mechs have a little side seat, and larger cockpits have fold out cots in the space behind the seat. The once and future king removed the command console to fit a mini fridge and live hooker storage in the cockpit.
>>98812625>live hooker storageDead ones compress way better though.
>>98812593Clan mechs specifically omit almost all long term equipment, which bit them in the ass pretty hard when they had to actually fight a war instead of a 40 second long duel.
>>98812628But they don't squeal and giggle and steal loose change from your pockets when you tickle them.
>>98812601>>98812630>clanners are completely and utterly retarded>still managed to take over terra in the current timelinehow is this possible
>>98812646Do not underestimate the power of the diaper IIC. The great father himself commissioned the design from the finest ABDLs the SLDF had to offer!
>>98812646Shit writing necessary to end the Dark Age on a post-Blackout note
>>98812625>>98812628Four more!>>98812646Authorial fiat is a pathway to many a storyline some would consider... Unnatural...
>>98812646clan wolf has the power of "author's pet" on their side
>>98812630They used to. They're still spartan but it's not crazy to find one with longer term accomidations. By Clanner standards, anyways.
>>98812685>Authorial fiat>>98812688>the power of "author's pet" Cry about it. Sucks to suck, losers.
>>98812734Fuck off, Yiffster
>>98812729>by clanner standardsSo a diaper?
>>98812788Coffee can actually.
>>98812788Jennifer Winson changing Nicholas Kerensky's diaper every morning was redacted from The Rememberance.
>>98812794Coffee makes you shit
>>98811428>>98811541I just noticed... aren't Marian colors just the Titans with a lighter shade of blue?
>>98812646The clans were written as an alien society for the sake of it, it was pretty rushed and there was very little thought put into the society itself besides being a weird pesudo-fascist caste-based animist brave new worldish kind of coalition of competing states and how such a societal abomination would actually function as a modern industrial state.So most of the success of the clans materialize and avoid getting rolled back because "the author said so" with little in the way of logical justification. It's pretty hard to imagine any of the clans not just collapsing in a few decades at best just in the kerensky cluster after truly implementing clannerism across society.There have been efforts in more recent writing to have the clans reform into something that makes more sense(as in just be less retarded) but that also means making them stop being clans. But they won in the inner sphere over the course of a century by being clans despite it making no sense, so why would they reform?It makes no sense that they succeeded at all, but it also makes no sense that they would reform after succeeding. Like if they fucked up the invasion because their clan stupidity didn't work it would make sense for them to reform clannerism, but they rolled the inner sphere.The timeline is just completely fucked, nothing can be logically reconciled.
>>98809613The pilot's view port, autocannon weakness, and the joint between the legs and the center torso were the big ones. Also the game mechanics of putting ammo in a empty section.
>>98812825Hence, the can.
>>98812825Coffee can also make your stomach constrict so much that you feel like you can't eat even though you're hungry. Then you aren't shitting at all and when you do it's just tiny rocks.
Why the fuck is the sarna guy so insistent on putting gay shit in his videos. I wanted to listen to a couple of his bad mech videos talking about some mechs I don't hear much chatter about and all of them had some deliberate gay stuff in it that simply just didn't need to be there. Just put the fries in the back dude, nobody wants to hear about your homolust
>>98813105TTRPGs are a hobby for gay people. Cis scum aren't welcome in our spaces.
>>98813152>gay>"""cis scum"""You can't even homophobe right. Most homosexuals hate trannies because they think they're just straight people with a fucked up crossdressing fetish.
Boys play with total warfare. MEN use BSP for combined arms.
Does CGL pay this faggot?
>>98813257Small lasers are effective at suppressing infantry units according to the technical readouts, faggot. Total Warfare ignores this, BSP is in line with it. Hope this helps.
>BSP infantryis this guy for real?
>>98812330Like, you did a campaign mission, and then you got that same mission again?Are you running any mods?
>>98812864>So most of the success of the clans materialize and avoid getting rolled back because "the author said so" with little in the way of logical justification. It's pretty hard to imagine any of the clans not just collapsing in a few decades at best just in the kerensky cluster after truly implementing clannerism across society.Eh, I don't buy that. The Clanners in their own space are halfway to being A Clockwork Orange with mechs but their Kerensky fetishism and their belief that they were mankind's manifest destiny one way or the other kept a lid on things; less than thirty years after re-entering the IS they got shredded at Tukayyid, had the IS showed up at their doorstep and crammed peace down their throats, and then half of them chimped out and they had a massive civil war. Most of the clans in IS space are also so integrated that they really don't seem to know or care what's happening back in Kerenskyland. Internal dissent and the most profound retardaration (except for the Jaaaaags, naturally) was also weeded out and squashed pretty thoroughly early on - Wolverine, Widowmaker, Mongoose, etc.
>>98813545>Most of the clans in IS space are also so integratedNTA but it's the opposite. They were getting IS contamination bad and had a major conservative push to separate themselves into clanner reservations after the Jihad. The falcons were the only exception. Though the devs have started doing it with the Wolves since they left the OZ, likely because they abandoned all their civvies and had to drum up new worker caste from scratch so had to start clannerizing again.
>>98812788I think it was a dual piss/shit tube, actually.
>>98813592>Chan Hysek was know for keeping enemies of the Confederation as his personal bathroom station aboard his mech. His opponents would often fight to the death to avoid capture and winding up as his Catapults waste disposal unit.Inner Sphere Barbarians
>>98813545why do you hate clanners so much? there is no real world allegory for clanners that would incur that much racism or nationalistic prejudice, yet your find being irate towards them as if they were a real race or minority.>Stupid fucking Grobbos, I hate Grobbos!
>>98813545The soviet union was a fraction as anti-human and revolutionary as clan society and it was barely able to hang on for 80 years while gradually curbing ideological excess and still collapsed, the communist chinese had to heavily deradicalize their system to escape the ditch their country was stuck in.Nicholas kerensky invented the most radical, miserable, antithetical to human nature society in history and the clans stuck to it without toning it down at all for over 250 years before they were destroyed by a combination of scientist uprising and purity spiraling. Clannerism definitely isn't realistically stable enough to create powerful industrial states that can maintain their existence for centuries.
>>98813666okay but like, clans aren't REAL bro. why are you getting upset at imaginary people?
>>98813679Why do you interpret a detailed comparison as someone being upset?
>>98813689you talk about them as if your upset. Doesn't seem like you're having a good time.
>>98813711Closely examining bad writing rarely produces praise for it.
>>98813721What's the point of critiquing it if all it brings up inside you is muck? Why don't you talk about something you DO like instead?
>>98813731Because someone asked about the how the clans won despite being fundamentally dysfunctional.
>>98813746Point of order, they didn't win. REVIVAL was a boondoggle and they realistically didn't even have a shot at Terra again for a full century.How Wolves have it now is... I don't know I don't think about it too much yet.
>>98813746but all it really is, is an excuse to complain about clans. you don't stand to gain anything by engaging with the topic.
>>98813772This just seems like an excuse to complain about another anon's posts, you don't really gain anything by engaging with him
>>98813772Its like this>Hey, anybody want to talk about Dead Kids?>Is it funny?>Not Really!>Then why would I want to talk about Dead Kids>Well cause it makes you really sad and stuff>Why would I want to be sad?>Well, assuming you are already sad, sometimes it makes you feel better>No, thank you.You see where I'm going with this? Its like chewing on a canker sore.
>>98813770>How Wolves have it now is...Literally Stone suiciding the RotS off by being retarded. Alaric's big plan was the exact same one that got Caleb Davion and half the mechs in the Federated Suns killed.
>>98813772An answer to a question is all it is.It seems like you put a lot of effort into trying to convince people to not talk about it.
>>98813780Its like turning into the guy who complains about the SW prequels and even when people bring up the original Trilogy he brings it back to the prequels cause he no longer cares about star wars, he just wants to be miserable.
>>98813786well you would avoid talking about it here too if you actually 'liked' the clans, you know what i mean? Its like going to an away game at a rivals stadium, you get a pretty chilly welcome.It certainly doesn't do anything to make the Inner Sphere Houses look any better.
>>98813770Revival was inarguably a significant strategic clan victory, they conquered a huge portion of the inner sphere in three years and then held almost all of it for the rest of recorded history.Then they actually achieved the ultimate objective of revival and one of the most important ideological goals of the crusader clans by taking terra just under a century later.The clans have won. The only way they could win harder is by conquering the entire inner sphere and periphery to geographically restore the star league.
>>98813799well, i mean, if you're not for the clans, whose house are you for?
>>98813797No? I answer questions people ask that I feel like answering and know the answer to. The answer doesn't depend on whether or not I like the clans.I like clan goliath scorpion.>>98813804Did you respond to the right post? That was just a statement of fact.
Well, the fact is, complaining about the clans seems to be awfully common, but you rarely hear anyone cheer for their House.
>>98813834>but you rarely hear anyone cheer for their HouseLiterally the first post in this thread and one of the first posts in each thread of this general for months.
>>98813834> rarely hear anyone cheer for their Houselurk more.
>>98813834What happened to >Purple Birb Strong>XIN SHING!>Honor the Dragon!
>>98813834To celebrate the Dragon is to simply state undeniable fact. We honor Kurita in life, in death, and in-between.
>>98813851Davion man, better keep your headDon't forget what your good book saysDavion change gonna come at lastNow your crosses are burnin' fastDavion manI saw cotton and I saw blackTall white mansions and little shacksDavion man, when will you pay them back?I heard screamin' and bullwhips crackin'How long? How long? How?Davion man, better keep your headDon't forget what your good book saysDavion change gonna come at lastNow your crosses are burnin' fastDavion manLily Belle, your hair is golden brownI've seen your black man comin' 'roundSwear by God I'm gonna cut him downI heard screamin' and bullwhips crackin'How long? How long? How?Where is Davions battle cry? How do I honor your house, Davion man?(single Davion tea behind landfill of wrecked mechsr)
>>98813867Davion's are sort of Space Australia aren't they? I mean if they were somehow still monarchists?Just your friendly neighborhood Constitutional Monarchy, here to save the day.
Catching up...>>98812864>how such a societal abomination would actually function as a modern industrial state.And to satisfy that curious Anon, out of universe this bugs me because they not only maintained Star League Tech, but improved on it in such an egregious way that it fucked the Weight/Crit/Damage balance.>>98813589>They were getting IS contamination bad and had a major conservative push to separate themselves into clanner reservations after the Jihad....And IN-universe, all this attempt at an alien civilization just resulted in an iteration on the Warrior-kings we already had in the Inner Sphere, except again, even more wanked off.
>>98813872They're an anglo-french culture, primarily anglo.
>>98813867>>98813872What is the Davions rallying cry? Krikey?
>>98813881What is the Lyran's Battle Cry?
>>98813872
>>98813893>What is the Lyran's Battle Cry?Polka and an AC/20 being loaded, with an optional "guten tag".
>>98813927>>98813937Nobody plays Davions and Lyrans cause there is no team spirit.
Goodnight BTG
>>98813927
>>98813799>The only way they could win harder is by conquering the entire inner sphere and periphery to geographically restore the star league.Yes please I'll actually buy CGL product if this happens
>>98814149all you need to do is wait until the timeline advances to 3250
>>98814346By then the IS should have put pause on their squabbling and stomped every Clan to extinction under the weight of trillions of nukes and guns.
>>98813983>Abe is DieronOn-fucking-point
>>98813954Goodnight, Anon. Sleep well and HONOR THE DRAGON!
>>98814354Well all the lore of 3250 right now indicates that the clans are still around and they probably still control terra.
>>98814382Hopefully in zoo cages, kept alive for study.
>>98814390No, that's Taurians.
>>98813927>>98813983Which we had these for all the Great Houses
>>98807524Shut the fuck up you Kuritan faggot. Shut the ever loving fuck up. Pic related is what everyone thinks when you say Honor the Dragon. You stupid chuuni samurai larping bastard
>>98813799>The clans have wonand it's really funny how nobody really cares rn because theyve got their own shit sandwiches to deal with. Still in amazement on how the Cappies fucked up their campaign against the Wolves though>>98814149This is an ass idea
>>98814657>t. Davionman
>>98814681>This is an ass ideaExactly what a modern BT writer would go with then.
>>98813804>whose house are you for?Slave mentality in action. You can't even fathom not having a master.
>>98814720A slave to the highest bidder. A slave to the C-bill.
>>98814734LOL! You're projecting loser. The merc gets to take whatever contract he wants, for whoever he wants. He's in it for a love of the game.You however, can only think in the slave mentality and assume that a merc must take the highest bid and cares only about the money. Pathetic.
>>98814746>He's in it for a love of the game.Overwhelming majority of mercenaries are mercenaries because they want money.
>>98814734I have no backbone. I'm loyal to whoever pays the most.
>>98814710>picrelThis makes me almost irrationally angry. Bitch, the ilkhan during most of Operation Revival and the period immediately after was a black man. What the fuck are you talking about?
>>98814799Well he was a man.The clans only hate black women and create them specifically to oppress them.>marena is a surat>we have purposely decanted her wrong, as a joke
>>98814710>>98814799>>98814816I mean we could go with the other meaning of Lily-white, where Marena thinks Malvina Hazen is somehow a paragon of moral purity or innocence...
>>98814799The dumb thing is that if you remove the mention of gender and skin color, the paragraph makes perfect sense: she's member of the merchant caste, so the warriors look down on her despite her also being a trueborn. Clanners have moved past the prejudices present in modern society by replacing them with entirely new ones.Her being a woman implicitly being one of the reasons she's looked down upon doesn't even really make sense within the paragraph itself, considering Malvina Hazen is also a woman and is specifically pointed out as an exemplar of a stereotypical CJF warrior. At least with the skin color you can make the argument that the famous CJF bloodheritages, like Malthus, Hazen, and Pryde, are from white people so some of the more elitist clanners could consider her being black an indication that she's from a less prestigious bloodname or one of her geneparents being from another Clan's bloodheritage.
>>98814657lol Fedrat seething
>>98814766Overwhelming majority of house supporters are such because they're weak retards.My dudes are cooler than every single official house regiment. That's just a fact.
>>98814774>Turns down contracts because of who the employer is.It must be hard for you, being so stupid.
>>98814919gray death!? MORE LIKE GRAY DIED LOOOOL
>>98813368>technical readouts from before total warfare say that small lasers are effective anti-infantry weapons used like machine guns>total warfare does not support this while older rules did>BSP rules do support this however, therefore BSP>total warfare it's as shrimple as that
>>98815210There's also the Mackie, which make zero sense as being a gamechanger on the battlefield if it houses ZERO anti-infantry weapons, severely limiting where it can be deployed and its overall effectiveness
>>98815210>>98815229Making pulse lasers pull double duty was a case of new toy syndrome, same as the Streak-2 Infernos. It never made sense, considering that the fluff specifically describes pulse lasers as an anti-armour weapon.
Are there any sourcebooks that have a guide on making your own Warrior House?
>>98813105Sean is a faggot who legit can't play CBT he's an alpha strike baby, but he's retarded and a leaf so I assume the gov pays him to sit around fuck men, so he has time to write a wiki,
>>98815210>>98815229>>98815239xotl will fix this in the upcoming combined arms book, trust
>>98815239See the anti abonimation/Infantry mode for lasers added in gothic.Also BSP suck. The only good thing to come from the BSP system is the new building rules.
Are there any good resources for coming up with a backstory for my Mercenary company? Such as founding year, origins etc.The chosen variants are for the Scouring Sands campaign.Command Lance:Atlas C 3 (Commander)Archer ARC-2RArcher ARC-5RWraith TR1Heavy lance:Thunderbolt TDR-8MWarhammer WMH-8RWarhammer WHM-6RBlackjack BJ-2rScout LancePhoenix Hawk PXH-1Locust LCT-1VbLocust LC-3MWasp WSP-3S
>>98814720It was a comparative analogy.If you hate the clans and aren't for a house, why do you hate the clans?
>>98815739Its like hating Mexicans when you live in North Dakota.
>>98815770I'd be mad and hate everything if I was stuck in North Dakota too.
>>98815825I pronounced the word French-style for a moment before realizing it was the North Dakota town and then smiling.
>>98815352A Warrior House is made of Far Eastern Orientalism + The Lorix Order + undying loyalty to the Chancellor, simple as.
>>98815424Good luck getting your opponent to agree to those rules in a non-gothic game where infantry are involved
>>98807516They deserved to become IlClan. And then have everything go to shit because reality always trumps dogma.
>>98816225It's fine for OP anti-infantry weapons to exist in a system that explicitly models the infantry as being utterly unbreakable death sworns who will fight to the last.I think.
>>98815210Small lasers should just get AI then.
>>98816295Are TW infantry truly the great filter? A million fucking ways to deal with them exist, but because mechs cannot stand in a hex surrounded by three or four platoons of men indefinitely they're overpowered? In a game where three or four platoons would be a humongous amount of infantry, but because they have a low BV value clearly you have to acquiesce to 20 or 30 stands of infantry to the order of over 500 men? They break the initiative rules if you explicitly let them and do nothing to prevent them from breaking the initiative rules like they say they do in Total Warfare if you read the fucking book.Modern and more elegant rules are long overdue, but holy shit.
>>98816273>Moon pulled out a small metallic canister and opened it.>“You were here first, my old comrade,” he said, spilling the contents onto the red clay of Terra. Trent’s ashes blew in the breeze across the dry grass. “You are the first of our people to touch Terra. This makes you the greatest of the Clan warriors and us the ilClan, regardless of what Devlin Stone and Prince Victor ha?e been misled to think.” When the canister was empty, he tossed it into the distance.>“We have remained faithful—and always will.” He closed his suit and activated the tactical channel again. “Fidelis— deploy!”Forever Faithful is truly a gift.
>>98815739I don't hate the clans, so ask someone else. If anything, I just try to amuse myself at the massive cope that comes out of the inner sphere fanboys when it comes to fighting clanners.
>>98816377My house rule on initiative is that all infantry must move first, followed by the tanks & vtols, then the mechs. This gives the heavier hardware an inherent tactical advantage over the lighter stuff and prevents its abuse.
>>98816522Isn't there a ranked initiative rule that goes:>infantry>tanks>mechs>asfI swear I remember that from somewhere...
>>98816295True, considering that. >>98816377You can certainly deal with them in TW by simply deploying some anti-infantry mechs or simply avoiding them (even assault mechs are much faster than most infantry units), the main issue is simply that TW infantry rules invalidate/fuck with the fiction behind a lot of mech designs that originate from before TW was published. An AS7-D Atlas, for example, is WAY less effective against infantry than a regular old Locust. You'd expect it to just be less efficient, not outright ineffective. TW also makes designs like the Mackie nonsensical because, well, how the hell was this thing dominating the battlefield as the first battlemech if it couldn't effectively deal with infantry? And I don't mean "wreck every infantry unit en masse," I mean having ONE anti-infantry weapon, even self-propelled artillery vehicles dating back to WW2 have machine guns on them for self-defense against infantry. The Dazzle firing mode for lasers from the Gothic rules nicely solves the issue, btw, as it defines lasers as being effective enough anti-infantry weapons (though less efficient and effective compared to machine guns and flamers).And that's not even getting into how ACs without flechette ammo apparently don't have enough explosive power to kill more than 1 infantryman, 2 if they're out of cover (double these values if it's an AC/20) per round of shooting, which is whack because battletroops explicitly says they do.
>>98807516PWAKKTUA!
>>98816542Common houserule.But in the shittiest case where someone brings like 12 infantry and 4 mechs to your 4 mechs, they can just have the infantry stand still for their first three activations, moving all of their mechs after all of your mechs if they won initiative, or all but one of them if they lost. Sure, their mechs might be down a few hundred BV, but never being outmaneuvered is a huge advantage.
Praise Blake
>>98816619>try to save humanity from fascist space furries>the great houses, perpetrators of the worst crimes against humanity in history, side with fascist space furries>forced to flee the human sphere>now fascist space furries rule the houses from Terralmao
>>98816677The furries rule nothing bro, they just expended all of their military might fighting over a rock that hates them, and are about to find out why that was a bad idea.
>>98816619No. By god, blakists are even worse retarded evil morons than, may heaven forgive me for saying it... the fucking clanners.
>>98816619we should have listened.
>>98816619this picture makes me sad
>>98816677Where the Blakists fucked up, imo, was their unwillingness to sacrifice Terra to eradicate the Clans. They had the perfect bait to lure them all to, could have waited for them all to gather, then saturated the planet with nukes until the naked crust glowed. Whatever pittance forces that didn't land would have been easily hunted down and exterminated by the Shadow Divisions. While the Homeworld Clans degenerated into mass psychosis that their prophesied prize was now an irradiated hellscape, Blakists could have massed a crusade and razed the Pentagon worlds or died trying, and regardless of outcome would still be heroes to the IS for taking the fight to the heretics. Taking Terra off the board would have solved so many problems in very short order.
>>98815739>If you hate the clans and aren't for a house, why do you hate the clans?Well like I said, they buggered up game balance AND didn't do anything all that interesting with their Alt-Civilization angle.
>>98816619>fought for humanity>betrayed by humanityIt's like poetry.
>>98816897by thats like being mad at the clans instead of the guy who made the clans. >Fucking Smurfs>Doing All Their Smurf Shit
>>98816906I can't be both?
This weekend i have been painting the monsterpocalypse models for my halloween game.
>>98815353What a shitter. It's a shame because I actually do like his voice acting and he tries to have a good range of voices, which I think he does well at. If he could just stop being a massive lala prancing homofaggot for two seconds>>98816896It feels oddly poetic for Terra to end up a nuclear hellscape in BT, I kinda like it. While its cool that the franchise is willing to kill off factions, to this day it does suck that Comstar is gone. There really isn't anything to replace them, and the Sea Jews being le good at everything that isn't fighting actually gets old fast. I don't mind them economically mogging everyone in arms deals, but I do think its stupid that they run merc job postings, are able to be a massive bank handing out loans to states, and are now bringing the HPG network back online. It's just to much. If the writers weren't retarded they'd have some of the personnel letting the Sea Jews bring the HPGs back online be secretive former Comstar people who begin to create a reborn Comstar under their ranks. The writers are retards so this will never happen
What's the best book to read in order to learn about the Fronc reaches?
>>98816619It is proper to praise Him.
>>98817082Their definitive "day in the life" work is The Marshal Way, which was a BattleCorps novel, so go fuck yourself. Shrapnel is currently running a sequel as a serial, that's The Lone Marshal. Historical background would mostly be Handbook: Major Periphery States. Their one scenario book is Operational Turning Points: Fronc Reaches.There's more besides, but it's mostly bits and pieces. Those 4 are the meat of Fronc.
>>98817103Sounds like I need to start with Major Periphery States, thanks. I need a high level anyway.
>>98816605No. What I mean for my houserule, is that in your situation, all 12 infantry would move before any mech move, regardless of which side won initiative. Then the mechs would go 1 for 1 back and forth.
>>98817111Also consider Era Reports 3085 and 3145 when you're done there. That'll pretty much bring you up to speed from founding to present. Here's hoping that the new periphery book has something for them.
>>98817006Technically Comstar never actually ended, it just became irrelevant as a faction
>>98817121Thanks, that's the info I need.
>>98817121It should run everything from Fronc to Tortuga iirc.
>>98816295Are dazzle laser rules from Gothic even OP when used against infantry? For example, a small laser on dazzle mode would do full damage (3) against infantry if we switch out "abominations" for infantry, while generating zero heat. An MG with the same range but requiring ammo would kill 7 on average, so that's double the amount of dead infantry (on average, it can go up to 12 dead) for double the space and an explosion risk, and a flamer kills 14 infantry on average for the same amount of space as an MG, no explosion risk, but worse against armor, and it generates 3 heat. Small laser on Dazzle mode doesn't seem so OP to me.Then there's mediums and larges. Yeah, they're killing 5 to 8 infantrymen respectively at much longer ranges than the above weapons, but that's with heat and still less efficient and arguably less effective than simply using MGs or flamers. But let's pretend it's still OP because you can activate Dazzle mode in the end phase of a round and turn your large laser that was previously slagging a light mech into an effective long ranged anti-infantry weapon from one round of shooting to the next. Okay then, make Dazzle mode something that can only be declared before the battle begins (let's say it requires a mechbay to change lasers to this firing mode). Half heat (rounding down), full damage to infantry but half damage to everything else (rounding down) INCLUDING BATTLE ARMOR for the entire battle. Seems balanced to me
Is there a more underestimated mech than the AIV Urbanmech?
>>98817210It doesn't even have a record sheet.
>>98817210>>98817222Apologies, I somehow thought of the LAM urbie. AIV has a record sheet.I wouldn't say the AIV is underestimated. Just that the need for a 2/3/2 arrow IV platform is pretty small compared to doing the same job with one of the Arrow IV tracked vehicles or catapults.
>>98817210Overestimated, more like. It's a worse Arrow IV carrier, but it gets talked about because lol urbanmech
>>98817210It's basically one of those first gen nuclear armed Metal Gears. Just swaps out the machineguns for jump jets.
>>98817210It's not underestimated. It's a shitty little artillery platform. It's true that it's probably the cheapest way to get SP artillery onto the battlefield, but 2/3/2 is barely fast enough to escape counter-battery fire, if that's the game you want to play. On a strategic level, it's far too slow.Its only real value, and IRL reason for existence, is because someone thought it would be funny to have a "nuclear Urbie", and Arrow IV is the smallest nuclear weapon in the game.
>>98817240>someoneIt was this guy >>98810420
>>98817240If the devs weren't cowards, we would have Thunder-Elias ammo for LRMs.
>>98817259The Davy Crockett, the smallest IRL nuclear weapon, weighed just under 50kg. The 155mm W48 nuclear artillery shell weighed about the same.You can fit 120 LRMs into 1 ton, making an individual LRM weigh 8.3kg, which is a little less than 50.Still, Thunderbolt 5 has 12 ammo to the ton, so 83kg per missile. So we could do that.Or AC/5, which is 20 ammo to the ton => 50kg each.The problem becomes surviving the blast from a distance of a couple hundred meters...
>>98817278The Elias is 5kg and delivered as either a satchel charge or landmine dispensed by a BA mine layer.
>>98817207This could work, honestly. I'd personally also change infantry to always operate under the tac ops rule where you run them as individual infantry squad, but change the infantry record sheet to be more like battle armor/abominations, where every man is tracked as a damage pip. This could also allow squads to actually be organized like squads, with individual members having different weapons and whatnot. So your stock IS infantry squad could consist of 5 guys with assault rifles that deal 1 damage each to infantry units but 0.25 (or somesuch) damage to armor, one guy has an "infantry machine gun" that deals 1 damage to armor and 1d6 damage against other infantry units, and one guy has an SRM-1. Then have variations of this, like maybe a man-pack PPC, clanner infantry with fancier weapons but 5 man squads (a single SRM-2 and then like, 4 guys with mausers that are the equivalent of the aforementioned IS infantry machine guns, maybe make the heavy foot infantry who are elementals who never earned their battle armor have 2 damage pips per dude so they're actually tougher than IS squads despite having less guys, etc). You can stack squads in the same hex (at the risk of damage spilling over and killing multiple squads), every platoon's worth of guys lets you divvy out some specialists and officers to split amongst squads in that platoon, etc, etc. Seems more intuitive and more "accurate" than the current mess that is infantry rules.
People like to say that infantry rifles shouldn't do any damage to mechs, but what if the infantry arms in Battletech just hit really hard? Something like the Zeus Heavy Rifle is hitting targets with just under 50,000 FPE per shot. That's more energy than a 20mm cannon (just under 40,000 FPE). Generic Autorifles do slightly less damage at a slight less armor penetration, so isn't it reasonable for Autorifles to do as much damage as a 20mm?
>>98817292idk about the specifics here but making conventional infantry squads work like battle armor does seem like a good idea ngl
>>98810465>>98808137For LAMs, they should do this:>Airmech mode: drop WiGE and just use VTOL rulesSelf explanatory >ASF mode: Either use regular ASF discount(Mech speed -2), or base safe thrust speed based on number of JJsExample: a Waneta with its 4/6/6 movement has 6 IJJs, and therefore can go 6/9.
>>98817094We already Have God. And he is entirely sufficient.Heretic.
>>98816997That's probably the only way monpoc models are going to see a table in the year of our Lord 2026.
>>98817350>base safe thrust speed based on number of JJsThat is already how LAMs work.But it also means that regular LAMs from before iJJs exist top out at thrust = walk because they top out at jump = walk.
>>98817230>>98817240It's not a good mech and configuration I agree but because it's an Urbanmech people tend to ignore it until it's too late.
>>98817006I think a better way to handle it is the Sea Foxes thinking they're pulling a fast one on the galaxy and secretly positioning themselves as the new Comstar while everyone else is "Yep, they're pulling a Comstar." They don't get outplayed by anyone and there is no secret spy war or anything, just everyone else knowing it's exactly what they'd do in that situation and being able to guess what steps Sea Fox is taking.
>>98817406The real way is to bring back Proto IJJs and make them give off extra heat in exchange for being lighter than regular IJJs(Airmechs don't produce movement heat)
>>98817435People give it the attention that they'd give any Arrow IV.
>>98817350>Airmech mode: drop WiGE and just use VTOL rulesI can see one argument that if its switched over to raw VTOL without exceptions, probably want to adjust the AirMech multiplier from a 3xJump multiplier to 2xJump. Because that pretty often puts them dead on the curve of VTOLs. From what I've seen you can get LAMs to have between 3 and 8 Jump, and by doing a 2x to that, you get a 6-16 range for its "Walk" speed.By comparrison, the 60 Ton Lexan Oceanic Luxury VTOL has the slowest speed of VTOLs at a "walk" of 5 and the 15 Ton Mantis Light Attack VTOL has the highest speed of VTOLs at a "walk" of 16.Not too far off from each other, and I think they end up in similar brackets of equipment load as well?>ASF mode: Either use regular ASF discount(Mech speed -2), or base safe thrust speed based on number of JJs>Example: a Waneta with its 4/6/6 movement has 6 IJJs, and therefore can go 6/9.Pretty sure that's how it works as is. Mech Industrial Complex is on the voting for a Extinct First Succession War challenge, but the previous one was about LAMs and there was stuff like this >>98773658 that got 8/12 in Aerospace mode because it used 8 IJJs.
>>98817485>>98817406Sorry that's on me, what I meant to write was keep it JJ based but allow for weight saving gear. It can even be limited to options that don't go over a certain amount of Crits, like Light FE but not XL, or Endo-Composite and Composite, but not Endo, LFF armor but not FF or HFF etc.
>>98817339CI probably need some way to simulate morale, which current CI doesn't do, and making them battle armor wouldn't really fix that. Battledroids infantry, though, that sort of abstraction mixed with detail could actually help simulate morale and losses in a satisfying manner
>>98817528There are rules for conventional infantry morale, you dumbass. They're just not in Total Warfare.
>>98817094>>98816619Blake Raising Simulator when?
>>98817534Infantry shouldn't require multiple books just to be playable
>>98807524I like the mech.its one of the few that actually work for the idea of a 'cavalry' mech. Something ment to charge in, through, turn, and back in.
>>98817622And after a certain point, it also gets to turn an extra facing allowing it to shoot its ppc arm BEHIND it if they torso twist right. So it's blasting coming and going.
>>98817622It's one of the ones I hope is revealed to have a Project Trapdoor doppelganger. Although there's a good chance it would just be a lame mlas boat.
>>98817753There's one in one of the recent Shrapnels that mounts a bunch of SRMs, does that scratch the itch?
>>98817528To what end? Tabletop engagements last a few minutes.You know what fuck it have quick fix. Infantry make an anti mech skill check when reduced to 50% strength, if they pass they fight on.There simple.
Looking through the MW3E RPG lifepaths, the "Born Mercenary Brat" lifepath includes "Proud Heritage" which is not in the 3E book. Anyone know which sourcebook "Born Mercenary Brat" lifepath comes from?
>>98817915Fanpro Battletech Companion, page 103. Took me a minute since I got an old ass scan that's not searchable. Really need to upgrade some of these pdf's. Fucking thing is a collection of tiffs.
>>98818207That's retarded. It's already included in Good Reputation.I liked MW3 even though I know it's objectively not a great system but they added SO MUCH cruft.
>>98817240>2/3/2 is barely fast enough to escape counter-battery fire, if that's the game you want to play. On a strategic level, it's far too slow.Doesn't that apply to most artillery units? The mobile Long Tom or the towed Thumper artillery piece isn't exactly fast either, and at least the Urbie can handle difficult terrain by using jump jets.
>>98817485I think that may be a bit too fast given how they're more durable than VTOLs.My group has been experimenting with 1.5x jump being the new VTOL "walk" speed, so a 6/9/6 would become a 9/14 VTOL.
>>98817207>Are dazzle laser rules from Gothic even OP when used against infantry?No, they aren't. Infantry in general isn't a problem other than for meta gameplay reasons (manipulating initiative, extending game duration in unfun ways, making your opponent's turn longer without adding much to the game). Even those scary field guns probably won't be active for more than two turns under fire.Pretty much all issues folks have with them originate from the mental disconnect between played time and simulated time. When you're standing at the table for two to three hours, the actual time simulated is only a couple minutes, so it makes sense that infantry doesn't break - they really don't have the time to do so. Yet actually removing them for gameplay and scoring purposes will still eat up a couple turns, which will be more than a quarter to half an hour of play time.So I think it would help to add a rule that eliminates them for scoring and initiative purposes well before they've been slagged, kinda like the BA in lvl 1 water one. It probably should be a roll connected to their Anti-mech rating and be triggered only when they're under attack from mechs, because it's a giant robot game. That they still get to stand their ground against convees creates the sort of tiered game play that reflects fiction, so that's fine.They also should reform damage vs mechs. If a unit isn't an SRM squad, they really should not get more than one turn of anti-mech fire, which should be a linear damage factor based on squad sized (to simulate them hauling one-shot launchers) plus the support weapon's damage. After that one shot, they only get the support weapon's damage plus a low bonus to their crit chance based on active pips, to simulate somebody doing something heroic or dumb.
>>98818569So x1.5, then x1.5 again? I could see the argument for that. The speed being less extreme(barring custom builds but that shouldn't even be part of the argument) also means you can ease off on the rule bloat and nerfs since it just ends up being a mech with some of the tonnage dedicated to the LAM components. .That plus the ASF engine discount seem fair imo.
>>98818668As for damage/range profile against convees, BA and infantry, those should be cleaned up as well. TW isn't granular enough to simulate specific infantry weapon models, so infantry weapon range bands and damage really should be unified into three generic squad types: Pistol/SMG - Rifle - SniperThe differences being that lasers get better to-hits at long range and cone rifles can get a damage bonus vs infantry out of cover, because they're firing rocket grenades. Conventional ballistics do burst damage vs non-mechs at range zero. Sniper systems retain their current rules. The rest of the balancing then happens on the BV/construction side.We can maintain that infantry weapons have the option of shooting into the range bands of their support weapons for full squad blob damage, but the roll should be based on the infantry weapon's to-hit numbers and range bands in that case. Nothing wrong with letting players gamble on long odds.We should maintain the Mauser-Grey line's superiority for the memes.
>>98818569That's probably reasonable. I was just going with 2x because I was pretty sure 3x was used for current AirMech modes so that it's closer to the midpoint between Mech and Aerospace.Though admittedly, that does come back to how ASF interacts with ground battles feeling like it needs to be retuned a fair bit. Measuring their movement in mapsheets just makes them so hard to actually feel usable in any reasonable way, when even a pretty big map is only something like 2x4 sheets.
Why give infantry initiative? Just make them always move last after all the vehicles do and decide their own turn order with another initiative roll. Being last to move also means first to die, which means less of them to fiddle with over the time of a game session.
>>98818885>Being last to move also means first to dieTry playing the before opining on rules changes.
>>98813152>TTRPGs are a hobby for gay peopleGet out of here you limey, TTRPGs are for people who don't have sex.Meanwhile gay people have gay butt sex with each other all of the time. (As opposed to the equally sinful, but not gay sodomy your average couple engages in.)Unless you recoil at the thought of physical intimacy then you aren't a TTRPG player, go back to your filthy furry infested ERPGs you backdoor plunderer.
>>98818956>TTRPGs are for people who don't have sex.A number of the Grogs are married.Just sayan.
>>98818756>>98818854The lower speeds were partially selected to get them more in line with the heavier VTOLS, whose role they'd be effectively stepping into.Luckily flak AC ammo is now core, which is a big help in countering VTOL TMMs on the lower tech levels.Despite being a lover of combined arms, I don't think there is much of a direct place for ASF on the game board as such. I prefer the abstract aero options from stratops. I've been toying with the idea of using the BSP aerospace system but with full aero record sheets, but I've not had the time yet to test that. I am a big fan of aero being on a timer in that system though, as it at the very least puts a damper on the "last plane to survive the air war gets to airstrike with impunity for the rest of the game" problem that things usually boil down to.
>>98817247>It was this guy >>98810420Who the hell is that supposed to be?
>>98819126The man what snipes dropships.
>>98813875To be fair, it's not that much of a stretch that Clan tech sucks so much less when you consider that it was designed from the ground up to actually win battles while so much of the Inner Sphere's mechs and other weapons were so heavily influenced by pork barrel politics and other concerns ahead of actual performance. No matter how backwards and barbaric Clan culture might be, the one thing they had going for them was being extremely goal-oriented. From day one their military industry was informed by practical concerns beyond "line goes up".
>>98819099From what I can recall, there was one anon that tested out the BSPs in games and the Infantry, and Aerospace two of the ones that worked out fairly well in games compared to using standard rules.
>>98819474>weapons were so heavily influenced by pork barrel politicsExcept they're not...You can't just magic up smaller, more powerful lasers by saying you worked more on them.
>>98819474Clantech was designed to win ritual duels, not wars, as actual war is antithetical to the clan system. Standard tech and lostech is meant to last for centuries of regular use, clantech is meant to last until the enemy mech squaring up 150 meters away is disabled.Realistically, clantech should see serious mechanical problems manifest in prolonged combat(an hour or two in the field) and be completely impractical for actual campaigns. All clantech, their weapons, mechs ASFs, everything, should pay for their extreme tactical performance by being hangar queens that can only deploy for lightning fast shock actions and then get stuck in a hangar for maintenance and repair as the techs struggle to untangle the equipment that been trying to destroy itself just through basic use. And everything outside of these shock actions should need to be handled by "second line"(which would effectively be first line) units that are overwhelmingly equipped with lostech at best.Basically, the clan military should be mostly pretty mundane forces that aren't any better than that of a great house, but occasionally they deploy these elite units full of gundam-like equipment that will completely fuck up any opposition in pivotal areas. It would also make it reasonable that the great houses haven't adopted clantech as standard in their forces for a century.
>>98819880Much more elegantly put than I could articulate!There is no COST to Clan Tech, no real trade off for why their shit is just inherently better.Supposedly there is a greater material cost... but that's not reflected in the C-bill pricing.
>>98819880>>98819880You're the most sensible person in this thread and I am enlightened by your intelligence.Even Omnimechs would make perfect sense under that paradigm, as would widespread deployment of BA as trip wires and anvil forces.Mind, that this would change nothing under TW as you're literally just clashing for a couple minutes there. It would also - funnly enough - make all the IS side grade energy weapon systems sensible.
>>98820025>Mind, that this would change nothing under TW as you're literally just clashing for a couple minutes there.Except in a campaign, where your Clan Tech has literally burnt itself out after one engagement.
>>98807621My battletech group is my 40k group, my AoS group, my horus heresy group, my necromunda group and my GURPS group.
>>98819474I would be fine with Clantech having been better on first contact, to play into how much tech in the Inner Sphere backslid due to the Succession Wars and Comstar meddling while the Clans didn't experience that.But when it's been over 100 years and its still better with the Inner Sphere not even really reaching parity with even the basic stuff? That's when it starts breaking down. R&D should put them pretty firmly at the current upper end of Clantech at the least just from how big the Inner Sphere powers are allowing them to put so many more scientists on the problem, even with the Jihad blowing a lot of shit up, because the Clans would have equally been fucked by the Wars of Reaving but they would have less people to bounce back with.
>>98818901They're last to move as extremely slow units that are ambushers. By being last they can technically function better as ambushers during their own "infantry phase" especially if many are in the right spot AND double blind. But being the ones to move entirely after all vehicles complete their move, fire and melee phases means they can be avoided and fired upon (and tiles being set on fire) while potentially clustered together or otherwise not in an ideal position. And of course doing this means they are removed as a method of gaming initiative entirely. So both ways it just makes so much more sense to me.
>>98820037It's an elegant solution as it mechanically doesn't impact pickup games but it adds additional flavor to campaigns where your CERLLs are starting to struggle because they've been in the field for a day and their focusing lenses are wearing out(+1 to hit or something).
>>98817612Tbqh tacops shouldn't exist. Everything in it should either be main rulebook or campaign book.
>>98820074>But when it's been over 100 years and its still better with the Inner Sphere not even really reaching parity with even the basic stuff?This wouldn't even be so bad if it wasn't for the fact most clantech went from complete nonexistence to research programs to full scale production in the course of about 20 years at the beginning of the second exodus, the most unstable era the clans saw prior to the wars of reaving.If it had taken most of the golden century for the clans to invent and mass produce clantech it would be a lot more believable.
>>98819880>All clantech, their weapons, mechs ASFs, everything, should pay for their extreme tactical performance by being hangar queens that can only deploy for lightning fast shock actionsInteresting thing when it comes to Clan ASF. They are in fact are. Most of their fighters don't have enough fuel for prolonged combat which means in a full on dogfight usually the IS comes out on top. Then aerotech itself is an exercise on who runs out of fuel first generally.
>>98820074>But when it's been over 100 years and its still better with the Inner Sphere not even really reaching parity with even the basic stuff? You can find Clan tech in modern mechs fielded by the Great Houses though and the IS definitely has it's own good weapons that the clans have to try to copy or buy. Some weapons like the enhanced LRM are in a new intermediate space of advancement.
>>98820272If CGL has done one good thing with the new stuff, it's letting the boundaries between IS and Clantech finally start to erode. It really should've happened ages ago, but better late than never.
>>98816896No one in any level of command in the WoB at that time is a sane or rational person. The lunatics have taken over the madhouse and executed the staff in their kangaroo court as dictated by the head crazy reading the guards' entrails under a new moon.The moment the Jihad kicked off, the Jihad took on a life of it's own that couldn't be harnessed. A mere crackpot prophecy happening as foretold was enough to make them lose their cool. Kind of par for the course when turbo-extremists take over. Once the nuclear genie is out of the bottle there's no reigning all the crazies.
>>98820221Also clan ASF pilots (outside of the ravens) are straight up doo doo garbage because they only ever simulate duels. An average IS pilot at the time of the clan invasion is a 4/5. An average clan pilot is a 5/6.
>>98820386>An average IS pilot at the time of the clan invasion is a 4/5. An average clan pilot is a 5/6.Wait...really?
>>98820397Yeah, same with clan tanks and conventional infantry. Their mechwarriors and BA troopers are great, everything else is neglected to the point of actually being detrimental. IS pilots were flying circles around clan pilots during the invasion. Doesn't help that having slightly longer range on weapons doesn't actually matter when you're shooting from dozens to hundreds of kilometers away.
>>98820409 (me)Actually, also their large ship crews. Since those are mostly operated by Technicians working as a cohesive crew and not gloryhound Warriors who think teamwork is for losers, they are at least competent on average.
>>98820386>outside of the RavensWhite Bird supremacy remains unchallenged
>>98820074>But when it's been over 100 years and its still better with the Inner Sphere not even really reaching parity with even the basic stuff? That's when it starts breaking down.>>98820143Well that is where being a game clashes with wanting "technological progression", fucking with the math to make things one-sided is just unfun.>>98820092Personally I'd make it that Clan Energy Weapons function more like Chem Lasers, IE they have a limited number of shots.
>>98820397>>98820409According to the average skill table in TW, average Clan ASF pilots are 4/5 like IS ones, while vehicle crews are 5/6 and mechwarriors 3/4. So Clan pilots are on average about as skilled as IS ones, with a slight edge in high-g maneuvering due to the aerospace phenotype (which doesn't really matter outside very high velocity space combat).
>>98820488This. I was about to say that I thought ASF was 4/5 and tankers were 5/6 because tankers were faildowns of mechwarrior and asf programs.
>>98819880I know you're low-key trolling, but... you may have struck gold. Compare it to military weapons and "race guns" developed for shooting sports: no one sane would take a kitted 2011/AR abomination on a battlefield where the environment and lack of care would quickly destroy it. Hell, military guns should be kind of disposable in high-intensity conflict. The idea that Clantech is some kind of "Gucci Technology" designed for highly-ritualized honour duels and completely unsuitable for proper warfare makes more sense than anything written about the clans in the last 20+ years.
>>98819880>>98820644There's actually a Shrapnel article to corroborate that. A Sea Fox giving a guest lecture/sales pitch at NAIS put most of the Clan weight savings on weapons down to cutting out most of the ruggedization that kept IS shit working through the Succession Wars.
>>98819880>Clantech was designed to win ritual duelsFactually incorrect, they made clan tech before they made the weapons or their honor duel system.They retrofitted all of their innersphere mechs with clan tech, then started making none omni mechs and then finally made omnimechs.Clan tech is just better because it was made by the clans while the SLDF doctrine was still fresh in their memory and their scientist caste still had all of the Star League knowledge to start inventing shit.It's a lot easier to come up with improvements to your technology when you don't nuke yourself back to the stone age and since the Innersphere still runs on feudalism, they aren't going to change how they produce equipment just to accommodate clan improvements.Especially not when you can both salvage, steal and buy clan tech from the clanners.There's a reason why so many house lords choose to pilot a Dire Wolf rather than anything produced in the innersphere.In short cry more spheroid clan tech is simply superior.
>>98820644I like this analogy alot. Sorry for bringing up politics but it's always funny to me when lefty types get into BT because the series has always had a "gun guy with autism" vibe to it from the beginning. There are tons of absolutely unnecessary lore of small arms in the setting that barely gets used, but clearly was put there because some guys back in the day had some gun magazines they read and thought "hey we should do this but in the BT universe" and made gun/mech mags in the same style. It's amusing to see that same DNA working to this day because race gun vs ruggedized military gun metaphor works so well here. It works even better when you consider that a standard AR15 today, with a few mods, can still be super reliable for military use AND still be useful in competition settings, which is how the clanners accidentally came up with some omni mech designs that work really well in IS style attritional warfare at all and not all just extremely minmaxxed duelist mechs>>98820663Amusingly with IS production capabilities, it suits them a little better to have material shaved off of the weapons and equipment that the clans use because if it breaks, they can always produce another one. The IS transitioning to a more "pump and dumb" attitude towards equipment by adopting less bomb-proof clan equipment seems very cool to me
>>98820703>It's a lot easier to come up with improvements to your technology when you don't nuke yourself back to the stone ageIt's also a lot easier to improve technology when your entire society isn't run by a Death Cult...>>98820740>Sorry for bringing up politics but it's always funny to me when lefty types get into BT because the series has always had a "gun guy with autism" vibe to it from the beginning....Why did you even bring up politics?
>>98820703>Factually incorrect, they made clan tech before they made the weapons or their honor duel system.Almost all clantech was invented after the clans came into existence.>They retrofitted all of their innersphere mechs with clan tech, then started making none omni mechs and then finally made omnimechs.Who knows how they managed that fresh out of the pentagon civil war with no industrial base.>Clan tech is just better becauseThe writers said "and also the clans invented a bunch of even gooder lostech right around 2820".>Clan tech is just better because it was made by the clans while the SLDF doctrine was still fresh in their memory and their scientist caste still had all of the Star League knowledge to start inventing shit.The scientists of the great houses fundamentally understood lostech by the clan invasion and couldn't manage to figure out how to economically produce it in the crisis of the clan invasion and the intervening decades before the jihad. Sounds like bad writing.>It's a lot easier to come up with improvements to your technology when you don't nuke yourself back to the stone ageCivilizations based on ritual combat are not known for being great innovators in military technology, command economies have a poor record for technological innovation. The clans are command economies that focus on ritual combat, not the best combination for a leader in technological advancement.>There's a reason why so many house lords choose to pilot a Dire Wolf rather than anything produced in the innersphere.Because the writers, hacks that they are, lazily made clantech better with zero downsides.>>98820644No part of it was unserious.
>>98820781>Why did you even bring up politics?Because I like to play a dangerous game! But really it's because lefty types aren't really gun people, although I am aware that is changing rn, but even if it is they still have absolutely retarded gun knowledge and just take and regurgitate stupid normie tier advice and don't really have a fundamental understanding of what they are doing. I bring it up just because it's funny to me that these people randomly come into battletech and then miss a lot of what the game and lore has to offer but insist that they actually do have a good understanding of things
>>98820499How do 5/6 tankers exist if you need to kill at least one other mech to become a warrior?
>>98820740It probably wouldn't even be that hard to implement, since it would all be up at the CamOps level. Assign different TNs for if a damaged crit can be recovered, and if you're feeling really spicy, make individual components break faster during maintenance rolls.
>>98820808The parameters of the trial that sees them enter the warrior caste or be relegated to a lesser caste vary by clan and by the part of the warrior caste they are meant to be a part of.Their tankers being quite poor means the standards of the trial are low, the people overseeing the trial only needing to have passed those same low bars.
>>98820795>The scientists of the great houses fundamentally understood lostech by the clan invasion and couldn't manage to figure out how to economically produce it in the crisis of the clan invasion and the intervening decades before the jihad. Sounds like bad writing.Didn't they figure out clantech relatively quickly once they got ahold of examples of it, it just took them like 100 years to figure out how to tool up factories to produce clan grade equipment to a relatively affordable degree in terms of production costs so we didn't see the fruition of that until the last dark age/ilclan era. There is also the fact that clan grade weapons have only ever had more and more sellers on the market for an increasingly affordable price as clan equipment is made from basically slave labor whereas IS made clan grade equipment has to figure out how to affordable tool up to produce the stuff at scale without the use of literal labor caste slaves
>>98820740It's not a perfect analogy because clan equipment does need to be rugged in a tactical sense, it's just that sustainment is not a major consideration and there's always an assumption that there will be expert maintenance between uses.
>>98820808Because they never make it to that combat trial. Testdown is the term for people kicked out of the of the warrior program they were bred into. It doesn't matter if they were young sibbies or getting ready to test out.
>>98820833As a point of order, at least as far as accountech is concerned the increased availability of Clan Tech has made it more accessible, but in very little respects more affordable.Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of salvage in a Chaos Campaign, you are still looking at something like a 4x SP factor to get your hands on it, effectively a 300% markup from IS models. I don't have Hinterlands or similar on hand, so I don't know if they price differently.
>>98820833Yes, that's the point, even if they knew how to make artisanal examples of it, they couldn't figure out how to produce it economically.Even by ilclan there's a lot of variants invented in the era that are reliant on lostech or even standard tech, but I don't think the clans from the golden century to the clan invasion create a new battlemech variant using anything less than clantech. The clans go beyond mass producing clantech the moment they invent it, they use it exclusively.
>>98820856>ruggedunderstand that I'm not implying that the lens on a clan laser needs to be scrubbed down after each engagement to maintain effectiveness. I'm sure clantech stuff is rugged enough to survive real military use, but instead of IS stuff which can survive for centuries of abuse, clantech survives more like decades of hard use. >>98820874Ay this is true but my counterpoint is that nobody really likes to accept in accountantech that there is a case of massive IS military spending inflation as the timeline progresses. In times past a mech that would adequately fulfill a role for 6 million C-bills now, to the modern standard, requires a 12 million C-bill mech using some guccier tech. Not accusing you in particular of this but I feel like lately I've ran into a couple people who are applying introtech C-bill costs to modern Ilclan era C-bill realities, which is basically them not accepting that it's normal for everything to cost 2-4X what it used to cost due to more advanced tech being standard
>>98820221Technically I think that just makes them really dependent on having nearby carriers or forward airbases for quick refits than being hangar queens per se.
>>98820808They may or may not be better mechwarriors than tankers, but test downs are either thrown out of the warrior caste entirely or thrown into a dreg program like tanking or conventional infantry.There's also test-ups, the only social mobility that is reasonable for a clan civilian is to become a warrior, at the bottom as a tanker or infantry. And their military training is not very good, you get someone who's been operating a machine at a forklift factory for their entire life, then they want to be the one on the other end of the gun barrel, so they join a "keep up or die" style boot camp for six weeks, and at the end if they aren't dead, they are now officially a warrior. A warrior with less real military training than a random IS militiaman and the keys to a weird triangular tank-thing.
>>98820833The issue is still the 100 years. Clan scientists can tool up IS factories to produce an acceptable grade of Clan equipment within years. Some of those IS factories during the occupation eras have multiple production lines where they are still producing original IS grade products, and presumably are still employing the original laborers or part of. Where are those throngs of bondsmen Scientists captured during the annihilation of the Jaguars who would be able to do the same thing for the Great Houses? The timeline has and always been nonsense for the sake of keeping the game and gameplay stagnant with the Word of God decreeing that let there be "IS" and "Clan" tech bases forever. Only now are things moving forward and only by inches.
>get into battletech>find out the classic scene in the area died out about 3 years ago somehow>there's only alpha strike nowNOOOOO
>>98820804Stop baiting then, because good knowledge goes beyond petty political bullshit. The only known factor was that FASA back then and CGL now are completely retarded and can't write guns, economics or logistics to save their own lives. Should I remind you about LAM physics?>>98821007Yeah, it's all nonsense. I do like the idea of "racing pistols" for Clantech, though. Again, it's a neat way to explain the relatively superior performance but the lack of major adoption. One could counter-argue that a lot of racing guns improvements then slowly trickle to the military.... but that would be too complex.
>>98821022You just need to do a little social engineering.
>>98820983Also solahma. Mechwarrior solahma stay in mechs (they just get downgraded to C variants or at least non-omnis), but elementals are taken out of their armor and put into CI. Theoretically they should still be better than random upgraded civilians or a sibcadet who failed out of mechwarrioring just on having years of drilled practice.
What if you put a dog in a quad protomech?
>>98821056Society detected.
>>98820795>Almost all clantech was invented after the clans came into existence.There's a very important split when it comes to clans "existing"Namely whether or not the best clan has been driven out of the home cluster for being too sensible.If you think clans were all honor duels and nothing else prior to 2823 and Wolverines trial of annihilation, then you need to do a bit more reading before comment on the clans.Clan tech was invented long before their society settled into warrior duels, clan widowmaker made sure to give everyone a reminder what nukes were just three years after clan tech weapons were introduced.To say that clan tech weapons were developed in a vacuum of nothing but short honor duels is nothing short of ignorant.
>>98821056Don't call 621 a dog
Once the Unseen purging began in the mid-1990s, was there any reason why both the Mad Dog/Vulture and Summoner/Thor respectively continued to look like the Destroid Spartan (Super Dimension Fortress Macross) and the Hasty (Fang of the Sun Dougram)?
>>98821007The problem is because clanners use slave labor, which is chill for them but not for great house states. I think I remember reading somewhere that the great houses did try and use labor caste bondsman for a time to test out building clan tech, but the issue is that it doesn't really look good for there to be a headline that reads "House Davion utilizing SLAVE labor to build military weapons!" plastered across the IS HPG news. I think not to many threads ago on here someone was shocked to find out that Hesperus only had a population of 55k or something like that, and the reason being that most of those factory lines are mechanized in nature. Tooling up to build stuff that was somewhat artisan in nature to begin with, which used slave labor to even achieve that in any kind of affordable way, is very hard to do using primarily just robot arms and tooling possibly not even fit for the task. That goes without even mentioning resource logistics. What if the clan grade equipment uses rare materials from some far off place? Now you gotta organize a deal to get that shipped in. What if you can't create glass lenses to a quality to focus lasers to clan spec, oh boy sounds like another business partnership deal. It's more of a reasonable thing than you think, especially in BT where a fucking targeting computer weights 4 tons to do what MAYBE 4 pounds of microchip and wiring would do today>>98821026>One could counter-argue that a lot of racing guns improvements then slowly trickle to the militaryI believe that's how LPVOs saw widespread adoption in the military, although I think it may have been more like SOF started using them, then compfags started using them causing them to get improved on, then they saw widespread military adoption. To a certain degree you see a lot of the new age IS side grade tech like reengineer lasers and VSPs and light engines coming from clantech inspiration
>>98821037Anon, he is posting on 4chan. There is almost no chance he is socially capable enough to do "social engineering" let alone talk to someone without shitting his pants
>>98821106Slave labor doesn't produce ER medium lasers. It is as simple as that. A more perfect glass lens is a product of a better machine, not genetically superior monkeys carefully tapping it with wooden mallets until it is Clan grade smooth.
>>98821113If I can do it he can too.
>>98820804>>98821026>Stop baiting then, because good knowledge goes beyond petty political bullshit.Indeed, a progressivist slant does not mean anti-firearm.>>98821007>The timeline has and always been nonsense for the sake of keeping the game and gameplay stagnant with the Word of God decreeing that let there be "IS" and "Clan" tech bases forever.Because that's just how badly "Clan" tech fucked the game math...
>>98821123>he doesn't know about the clan laser craftsmen educated from birth in the art of hand crafting precision optics
>>98821106>The problem is because clanners use slave labor, which is chill for them but not for great house statesIsn't there the Servitor class in the Capellan Confederation (until Sun-Tzu Liao put a stop to it in 3025) and slavery in the Draconis Combine (see what happened to Yorinaga Kurita's wife Sula and their son Akira after the Phantom Mech Incident of 3016)?
>>98821067The SLDF had been divided up into the clans in 2807 and everyone besides clan wolverine had taken to the clan system with unrestrained enthusiasm, there is no reason to assume the clans were not adhering to the trial system laid out by nicholas to resolve conflict and disagreement amongst each other.And the CERPPC is the only clan weapon invented by clan wolverine, everything else was invented by other clans.>clan widowmaker made sure to give everyone a reminder what nukes were just three years after clan tech weapons were introducedAre you forgetting that was a clandestine false flag operation by widowmaker and that nobody besides widowmaker and wolverine knew that wasn't a dishonorable scorched earth tactic enacted by wolverine?>Namely whether or not the best clan has been driven out of the home cluster for being too sensible.If everyone had not taken to the clan system then wolverine would have not been driven out for not adhering to clannerism too closely would they?
>>98821139Teach me
It's not even about the slave labor, its about the fact that the entirety of clan society is based around producing mechs.They don't have a none war-time economy.They don't have a entertainment industry, a marketing industry, a tourist industry or an industry based entirely around producing cruise liner space yachts for Steiner nobles and social generals.They just have a scientist caste, who design weapons based on constant warrior feedback / results who order the merchant caste to whip the laborer caste into shape and then trade for the rest. (Because yes the clans do trade all the time with each other, but since that isn't cool warrior stuff it gets looked down on, or is seen as necessary depending on how stupid/not stupid said clan is.)All of the collective GDP and output of every clan member is poured into building giant super mechs.Each super mech ending up as a mobile graveyard for genetically engineered super soldiers who are indoctrinated from "birth".Their entire society was built from the ground up to maximize this mech production, frequently testing said mechs through inter clan trials while minimize infrastructure damage to their expert class (Scientists get assassinated all the time in the innersphere by spec ops, sometimes spec ops in stealth battle armor, other times just with armed with a kantana while screaming FOR THE DRAGON or some weebshit)
>>98821183Except the weapons engineering is a communicable skill...
>>98821171>If everyone had not taken to the clan system then wolverine would have not been driven out for not adhering to clannerism too closely would they?Except they weren't driven out for not adhering to clannerismThey were driven out for constantly showing the other clans up within the clan system and not wanting to share their nukes, despite "Finding" the SLDF cache on their own planet, because they themselves had left it there.If their Khan had kissed Nich's ass more then they wouldn't have gotten Annihilated. (She was after all a far more competent pick, thus being a threat to the once exception to the meritocracy, the one with the Kerensky name)To think it had anything to do with being unclanlike is just clan propaganda after the fact, because they most likely didn't even succeed in annihilating them at all, due the wolverines most likely returning to the innersphere as the Minosota tribe.>>98821212Just because you tell someone how to run their society like the clans, doesn't mean that the innersphere can retool their own society to work like the clans without facing mass revolt.
>>98821257>If their Khan had kissed Nich's ass more then they wouldn't have gotten Annihilated. (She was after all a far more competent pick, thus being a threat to the once exception to the meritocracy, the one with the Kerensky name)I don't know dude, Jennifer Winston seemed to have it out for her.
>>98821257Again and forevermore, slave labor does not produce ER lasers. Receiving pointers on how to convert an ERML factory into a CERML factory will not and can not cause workers revolutions. This is not eldritch knowledge that would make you go mad, nor is it reliant on a machine that can only be operated by 24/7 hand crank.
>>98821257Are you forgetting one of the major catalysts for the alienation and eventual annihilation of the wolverines was the discovery of unclanlike degrees of inter-caste mobility that the wolverine khan was allowing?
Fuck it, anyone wanna make a Periphery realm? Here's some roll charts for us to start off with:Location: (1d8)>1: The Rift>2: The March Worlds>3: The Marik Expanses>4: The Hyades Rim>5: The Outer Sphere>6: The Draconian Drift>7-8: Deep Periphery# of Worlds: (2d6-1)Founding: (2d6)>2-4: Pre-Star League>5: Star League>6-8: Succession Wars>10: Clan Invasion>11: Jihad/Wars of Reaving>12: Republic/Dark AgeCurrent Government: (2d6)>2: Clan>3-4: Republic>5-7: Hereditary Feudalism (Low Centralization)>6-9: Hereditary Feudalism (High Centralization)>10-11: Elective Monarchy>12: UncommonIf Uncommon is rolled (1d6):>1: Communist>2: Technocracy>3: Corporate>4: Theocracy>5: Absolute Monarchy>6: Direct DemocracyCapital HPG Access: (2d6)>2: No Service>3-4: D-Rated Service>5-7: C-Rated Service>8-10: B-Rated HPG>11-12: A-Rated HPG
>>98821257Sorry, I meant "Weapons Engineering is communicable KNOWLEDGE!">>98821288>This is not eldritch knowledge that would make you go mad, nor is it reliant on a machine that can only be operated by 24/7 hand crank.Because yeah, you should be able to communicate it without driving someone insane...
>>98821288Having the information does not give you the infrastructure of specialized labor caste.Take a clan scientist and ask him to make your innersphere lasers ER and he'll do it.They're still just be ER innersphere lasersLet me give you a comparison so that you can understand.Lots of countries today know how to make semiconductors and microchips (a lot of the leading research is done in Europe after all)Very few countries have bothered investing in the infrastructure and specialized labor force to actually produce the very best chips and the machines needed to do it are massive, expensive and take a long time to make.If you don't think a two and half centuries advantage in chip manufacturing is going to give you an edge that is hard to copy just on a materials level then you are kidding yourself.Meanwhile the Innersphere has a crippling addiction to nuking itself back to the stone age.
alpha strike chads, how many players is too many for a game of alpha strike?
>>98821334>Are you forgetting one of the major catalysts for the alienation and eventual annihilation of the wolverines was the discovery of unclanlike degrees of inter-caste mobility that the wolverine khan was allowing?That was less of a catalyst and more just Nicholas being butthurt he didn't think of it first himself.
>>98821153>(until Sun-Tzu Liao put a stop to it in 3025)Here's the funny part - he never did. He only changed their legal status from non-citizens outside of the caste system to Untouchables and no longer allowed the nobility to request the ownership of one slave from his person.>>98821183>They don't have a entertainment industryThey do produce propaganda and other educational content, like the canon furry cartoons.
>>98821407>If you don't think a two and half centuries advantage in chip manufacturingExcept the Clan Laborers clearly don't have two and a half centuries of greater ER Laser manufacturing expertise, because again, that knowledge is communicable!
>>98821436It being the exact opposite of what he thought should be happening indicates he thought about it and didn't want it in the first place.
>>98821436A random in-universe conspiracy theory that popped in my head: What if Nicky K faked his own death? It would have been trivial to have someone else pilot the Atlas, and he could feasibly have arranged for that "missed" shot. Considering whoever piloted the mech would have to be hosed out of the cockpit, there would be little left to identify the body unless they decided for whatever reason to do DNA tests on the liquified remains.This mostly came to my mind after reading Chasm City, where there's a planet with a literal cult worshiping the original founder of the colony, who through flashbacks we learn was actually a complete sociopath who gained his position through murder, treachery, and lies, and when the people eventually had enough of his bullshit and decided to crucify him, he had a body-double take his place, run off, and place himself in cryosleep for the next century.
>>98821451>that knowledge is communicable!A scientist from Taiwan can also tell you how their shit works.It wont get you one of these or the expertise to build one, we're talking about retooling a multi planet logistics and procurement network to catch up with two and half centuries of improvements to manufacturing processes.There isn't one person who can do all of that, it takes a team, or one might even say an entire clan to operate.Just like in micro form on earth an entire country can revolve around operating just one industry.
>>98820314As of 3145, clantech has been known to the IS for almost 100 years.
>>98820644Actually, you're very wrong. Any of the various 'muh operator' levels of special forces, SAS, delta, green berets, rangers bla bla bla very much DO go out with ultra Gucci m4's and shit, because the 'milspec' ones are sometimes horrifically shit. They use their own overgassed set-ups, uppers, suppressors, optics etc. Anything they trust with their life.
>>98821487>A scientist from Taiwan can also tell you how their shit works.>It wont get you one of these or the expertise to build oneIt will get you there a hell of a lot sooner than 250 years!
>>98821487but that machine is dutch
>>98821426I think 6 is probably the max load before it becomes unwieldy.
>>98821549>OH NOES, TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS THE RESULT OF SOMETHING MORE THAN THE ENTIRE EFFORT OF AN ISLAND NATION!!?!!?!1>AM I A MIDWIT WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HOW TECHNOLOGY WORKS?!
>>98821537There are also a lot of things going on at the same time, namely endless wars.Besides the diamond sharks start selling old clan shitbuckets to the innersphere with their space factories. (Did I remember to mention that a lot of clan tech components can only be manufactured in space? Yeah that might have a tiny impact on your periphery nations ability to copy the clans manufacturing process.)And you know the innersphere didn't exactly have free reigns to just develop or research any of this in peace.Go back to the mid 18th century and drop one of these machines and some scientists in the middle of Europe and I can guarantee you none of those black powder wielding equivalent savages will get it to work.And considering how many times the innersphere nuked itself back into the stone age + comstar stealing all of the good shit (And then getting most of it wrecked) that isn't as unfair of a comparison as it sounds like.
>>98821525>go out with ultra Gucci m4's and shitSo military rifles modified to their personal preference and not guns specifically specialized for competitions.
>>98821549>but that machine is dutchI know and pointing it out only further proves my point, getting yourself a Taiwanese scientist caste from the "Earth clan" won't get you the know how or ability to reproduce these black magic chips.You need the factory that he's been trained to work in too, and he doesn't know how to build the factory.Consider the amount of leaps and bounds we have made within the past couple of decades when it comes to transistor sizes, now imagine several centuries headstart and everyone who knows why you made half of the improvements or changes compared to the old innersphere way? They are long dead and may not even have written it down because "its boring nerd shit and we need to focus on designing the next super mech", because they actually made a lot of those improvements several centuries ago based on SLDF research notes they grabbed before leaving.
Halloween OPFOR is ready
>>98821606>Yeah that might have a tiny impact on your periphery nations ability to copy the clans manufacturing process.Holy Moving the Goalpost Batman!>>98821665>You need the factory that he's been trained to work in too, and he doesn't know how to build the factory.But AGAIN, the knowledge to do all of that IS COMMUNICABLE!You are EXACTLY the type of midwit who goes pointing at Fogbank or Roman Concrete as "Examples of Real-life Lostech!" not realizing that they became lost technology SPECIFICALLY because people didn't write that shit down!And GUESS WHAT?!While Fogbank took nearly a decade to relearn how to make, part of that time was taken realizing that impurities in the original process were actually necessary for the finished product to function at full capacity.
>>98821713>But AGAIN, the knowledge to do all of that IS COMMUNICABLE!Yes and the instructions you will get are "Run everything exactly like my old clan did it and it might work, except you are a freebirth so it probably wont."The innersphere tried your method and all they got was innersphere ER lasers and innersphere omnimechs.
>>98821713Just because you have the knowledge of how to make something doesn't mean you can effectively act on it. I don't know why you think the word communicable is magic. Or why you like exclamation points so much.
>>98821713>Roman ConcreteFalse equivalentWe're talking about space age materials produced in novel ways, combined with the expertise and manufacturing capabilities of multiple planets working together with HPG communication to coordinate logistics.
>>98821746You dumb shit...It wouldn't just be "Run everything exactly like my old clan," it would be recreating the ENTIRE production infrastructure chain.Difficult, yes, timely, probably, but not a mythical task that would take more than 50 years!>>98821779>Just because you have the knowledge of how to make something doesn't mean you can effectively act on it.True, but it does give you a pretty good idea of what you will need to do to act on it.>>98821804>We're talking about space age materials produced in novel ways, combined with the expertise and manufacturing capabilities of multiple planetsBut the expertise is communicable, establishing the rest would be easier for the Great Houses considering they have an order of magnitude more planets to work with.
>>98821837>Difficult, yes, timely, probably, but not a mythical task that would take more than 50 years!You have quite the nerve to call anyone dumb when you're pulling estimates out of your freaking ass.You don't know how long it takes to reverse engineer even a single space age component material, let alone the finished product you are going to make from those materials.The innersphere hasn't even figured out how the clans make their endosteel, and you think they'll just copy the whole production line to make entire mechs and tech?If it was as easy as you said, scientists from the Rasalhague Dominion would have defected to the houses and gotten everyone the ability to mass produce Kodiaks, but they didn't because it isn't anywhere near as easy as you try and make it sounds.A two and a half century tech edge is far more intense than you try to play it off as.The equivalent is you trying to reproduce a smartphone during the age of steam and black powder, even if you are an engineer you are still shit out of luck.
>>98820913That's maybe not entirely the case due to retrotech designs and disparity in force; the fact that elite commands may be mostly or all clantech by 3150 doesn't make an introtech fit obsolete unless you're up against said command. While the bar has risen across the sphere, a picky Merc on a budget can probably make a functional unit with a marginal increase over an introtech budget.To wit: The standard is not universal and some old shitboxes can still haul their weight; though minimally you'll probably be looking at least at Helm refits or restoring old Star League designs from their introtech step-downs.
Does anyone in the setting even remember how dropships / jumpships work anymore? How does one go about becoming the captain of one of these fine eggs? Guessing it's mostly house nobles who have the dosh to buy one and then make it their breadwinners by offering to ship everyone else around.
>>98821877>You have quite the nerve to call anyone dumb when you're pulling estimates out of your freaking ass.See, I'm not actually pulling that estimate out of my ass, you want to know why?We Canonically have the Ghost Bears moving their ENTIRE production capacity into the Inner Sphere.What was the timeline for this massive relocation?It should be nigh impossible, yes?!To take their entire, SUPER advanced Technological Base from the established Clan Homeworlds and entirely recreate it in the Inner Sphere should take nearly as long as it would for the Great Houses to recreate Clan Tech!Oh, no, it only took like, A YEAR...>>98821936>Does anyone in the setting even remember how dropships / jumpships work anymore?I mean they do.
>>98821936>even remember how dropships / jumpships work anymoreEach state still has a few scientists that know the theory, even if not the practical application. The NAIS once founded was able to get the farthest of the Successor Lords.The only Hyperspace College in the IS was the Comstar one on Australia on Terra, which remained functional, owned by Comstar/WoB, and churning out new experts into the Late Dark Age until the Stoners shut them down and killed the Dean who was the head of the NeoBlakists.The clans never lost the theory or the tech, but were never as good or advanced as the Blakists.
>>98821936They never lost the ability to produce and operate jumpships in the inner sphere, but production numbers were getting very low, and dropships are far less complex(obviously). I think that only ever happened a couple times in the deep periphery.
>>98821936Dropships are common, jumpships less so but production never stopped. The theory behind jump cores lapsed to the point where nobody outside of Comstar could design new jumpships, but they never lost the technical documents to continue making the ones they already had. Helm unlocked enough data to restart designing new ones, including warships.
>>98821947>It should be nigh impossible, yes?!There's quite the leap between me moving my space age manufacturing line, and cavedwelling spheroids trying to copy it by smearing their own feces on a wall.Go back to the 18th century and try and get a blacksmith and a chemist to build you a working smartphone with modern quality components in fifty years.You will also need to create the entire global logistics chain in these 50 years.
>>98821936You know how railroad engineers are actually a bunch of relatively small families that know the business? That some random ass kid who says he wants to grow up and drive a locomotive is gonna have it a thousand times harder than a kid with a dad or uncle working already? It's like that, not counting the family-owned ships or the legendary Comstar Merchant Marine Fleet.
>>98821892Not saying an old shitbox can't pull its weight, hell I've taken Banshee 3S' into ilclan era combat before and done just fine with them. The problem arises, as you said when everything at a base level is basically helm memory core tier, that even just that upgrade can about double the cost of alot of mechs that utilize even a, now simple IS XL engine. The entire Republic of the sphere era to can on a meta level be used as an excuse to say that there really isn't any introtech stuff out there in the wild anymore and just about everything has been substantially upgraded to at least helm memory core levels with a lot of stuff being upgraded even further. As a baseline C-bill costs have just gone up. Sure youve got a few cheap models of mechs here and there, the Akuma comes to mind explicitly designed to be a more cost effective Atlas(amusingly intended to fight the clans with lmao what a design combo) and a couple of it's variants come in under 10 million C-bills which ain't half bad, but at the same time I see plenty of variants of even lighter weight medium mechs coming in casually above the 10 million C-bill line which is begining to get pretty pricey
>>98821996>cavedwelling spheroids trying to copy it by smearing their own feces on a wallYou mean like a bunch of Death Cultist taking the same Spheroid Techbase and somehow advancing it centuries in only 20 fucking years?
>>98822004>there really isn't any introtech stuff out there in the wild anymoreBecause better assault rifles made the AK47 become obsolete and disappear right? The base function of a mech is to oppress the masses, you only need helm core upgrades if you are going to fight clan mechs.You don't need them to kick over a rebels Hetzer.
>>98821996NTA, but I recall the reasoning being that they couldn't afford to shut down current war material lines to upgrade. They needed the maximum output to build up and that was the strategic situation since Helm, when before that only about 5 regiments of mechs were being made per state every year. It was the Sherman tactic. After the Jihad, they had to rebuild so much broken production, anyway, and they had a couple decades of peace, so they began getting their IS clanspec production, then.Do I think they still should have strategically focused on upgrading some plants in the 3050's? Yes, but that didn't happen for gameplay reasons. They got all the old SLDF chassis back in production instead plus some new ones. Well, at least until the 3039 retcons ruined that. It's much like the ever-eternal problem of IS sidegrade city.
>>98822015>centuriesI'd millennia. Clantech is niggerlicious voodoo magic.
>>98822027>that didn't happen for gameplay reasons>eternal problem of IS sidegrade citySee, this wouldn't be a problem if "Clan tech" didn't inherently fuck the balance math...
>>98822033And this is why people prefer Alpha StrikeBecause clans are actually fair and balanced in that since the ranges are just Short, Medium and Long rather than having individual ranges for each weapon.Likewise clan XLs don't have a massive survivability advantage over innersphere XLs due to there not being any locations but just armor/structure points.
>>98822024Anon that's literally what the great disarmament the Republic of the sphere did was about. Introtech stuff should be exceptionally rare on backwater planets where dudes forgot they had a mech buried in the ground or something. Even less common than bandits having a mech back in introtech times
>>98822048>And this is why people prefer Alpha StrikeNo...I'd much rather have an AU where the Clan's never pushed their tech past Inner Sphere Light Engines.
>>98822051>Anon that's literally what the great disarmament the Republic of the sphere did was about.The only real mercenary action in that era is in the periphery, so logic dictates that whatever locust factories and other crap bucket production lines the periphery states could keep going would keep churning introtech stuff out.Oppressing the periphery is the oldest innersphere tradition after all.
>>98822058>AUI'm sure whatever they come up with after Gothic will suit your fancy in that case, but the solution is already there rules wise.
>>98822080I mean I doubt it, they barely gave rules to Gothic in the first place...
>>98821525"Muh operators" special forces are completely unsuited for heavy-duty combat and could function only in the sand pits the Global Hegemon found itself mired in in the last 20+ years. The grunts weren't running with gucci'ed ARs, and the spec ops guys weren't doing basic grunt duties. >>98821646This guy gets it.
>>98822051Most of the periphery is still making introtech with a decent amount of more advanced tech in the larger states (and a smattering of it everywhere else).
>>98821892>While the bar has risen across the sphere, a picky Merc on a budget can probably make a functional unit with a marginal increase over an introtech budget.The value of an ISDHS refit is wild; with a little bit of re-arrangement a STK-3F can go from shutting itself down with one alpha strike to being able to indefinitely fire everything except the LRMs at close ranges.
>>98819880Stupid take. That's like saying a colonial era musket would be better for a war than an M-16 because it's lower tech. It's pathetic how many anons went along with this simply because they have hate boners for the clans.>>98820703Good on you for pointing out their shit. Even though they then try to resort to saying it's bad writing when proven wrong.
>>98822449Ok then, my planet has a technobabble field that explodes any XL Fusion Engine...
>>98821487Forget it man. You're talking to someone who has never actually dealt with high-end technology. He's never encountered a system IRL in which there's a machine that only person knows how it works and he thinks you can just say "Communicable knowledge!" and that somehow means every other joe schmo is a nuclear physicist.
>>98821606But what about muh communicable knowledge!?
>>98822499>He's never encountered a system IRL in which there's a machine that only person knows how it worksWhat?Like an Electron Microscope?Because I've actually seen one in action.
>>98821487>>98822499NTA but the issue with these kind of techjumps tends not to be the knowledge but you need to have the tools to build the tools, and that kind of laddering can get crazy quick. It's like you really couldn't make the OG 4-axis CNC's back in the day without the 3-axis to manufacture parts and then really good lathes and trams before that to make the 3-axis stuff.
>>98822537what's your honor, sweetie? can't make hi tech without hono
>Retarded zoomie alpha strike players>Gen-Xers with PTSD from 30 years ago when the clans were introduced.Are these really the 2 groups of Battleteche I'm stuck between. AM I THE ONLY SANE ONE HERE!?
said a man in a straightjacket
>>98822537>Because I've actually seen one in action.Yeah, the internet exists, we can all see anything in action. It doesn't make you qualified to operate it, build it, or understand it. For fucks sake, you're proving my point while you think you're arguing against me.Look guys! A video on Electron Microscopes!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY9lfO-tVfEI'm totally an expert on them now that communicable knowledge has been imparted to me. Oh, but video is 12 years old. It might just be an inner sphere electron microscope and not a clan one. WOMP FUCKING WOMP!
>>98822552No. You also have the Millennials who learned from the grogs and remember the glory days of Mechwarrior being a household name and the dark era of being told Battletech is dead by our FLGS and to buy Clicktech instead.That's probably the largest share of old players now, I would imagine. True grogs would have to be in their 60's now. I haven't run into one in the wild in years.
>>98822537I used to have to fix our X-ray Diffraction Machine, and it wasn't the physical bits that were bad. They were just expensive. Like the X-ray tube was 40k. The real fear was losing the unsupported mid-00's software that ran the thing. Literally had an old Win2000 rig in the office with a fucking ZIP drive that ran the thing. If we lost that, it just became a million dollar paperweight.
>>98822582You're forgetting about the Millennials who grew up watching the cartoon and are now held hostage by their emotional cortex falsely associating battletech with the positive connotations of being a small innocent child watching a cartoon way cooler than anything else on TV at the time.>>98822601This guy gets it, now multiply that by two and half centuries and several nukes to the houses primary factory planets.
>>98822496>my planet has a technobabble field that explodes any XL Fusion Engine...SvenDeploy the Grizzly's
>>98822655>way cooler than anything else on TV at the time.They jacked up the airing schedule where I lived so Swat Kats and Pirates of Dark Water beat it out that sort of time. I only saw maybe the first three episodes. The enhanced imaging also really reminded me of the Real Adventures of Johnny Quest. MW:2 Mercs is what converted me to a devout believer. I never even got to see the whole show until it was uploaded to youtube. The toys were so excellent, though. Such a variety of firing missiles and exploding parts. I still have mine I got for my birthday in '94. Axeman and Bushwacker. I've cannibalized yard sale spares over the years to still have all the missiles and stuff.Speaking of old fox shows. Anybody else think Xyber 9 was basically an Early Dark Age battletech campaign? Secret blakists living underground with ancient tech: shitheaps of mixed mechs and tanks and all that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McoWN1pi3w
>>98822601We've got 10m dollar plus welding robots running on windows XP computers with no network capabilities and nothing but the robot software and a program that displays the manual installed.
>>98822655I started on the cartoon and been playing table top and the vidya ever since.I liked the FCCW a lot (kinda felt bad as a Steiner boo they both were bad guys and lost) Jihad has grown on me and I'll keep calling it the Derp ages because it just sucked.They needed to advance the story but it got silly and I have mixed feelings about all these retro tech mechs. Feels weird when everyone has clan tech and new mechs leave with a chainsaw on a clan XL engine.
Rolled 6 + 2 (1d8 + 2)>>98821376I'll bite, starting with location and worlds
Rolled 4, 3 + 1 = 8 (2d6 + 1)>>98822736whoops, didn't mean to add in that +2, just ignore that for the 6.Rolling for number of worlds
>>98822749>>98822736Fuck me, I haven't done this in a while.So 6: the Draconis Drift, and 6 systems make up the realm..
>>98822724>Clan diamond shark installed planned obsolesence in all the clantech they sell to the innersphereI could see it happening, just like they prefer selling ammo dependent designs since the innersphere can't even reproduce something as simple as clan ammo and thereby become repeat customers.And when the spheroids try to use substandard ammunition in clan guns it wrecks the barrels and wears them down faster, ensuring people will need to buy more replacement parts from the foxes.
>>98822761how would that even work lmao
>>98822788NTA but probably like Apple stuff. Have software/firmware updates that purposefully bottleneck the performance and try to make you buy newest thing that has the exact same original specs or slightly worse ones.
>>98822449>Stupid take. That's like saying a colonial era musket would be better for a war than an M-16 because it's lower tech.No? How did you even infer that from the post? Is that your genuine takeaway?
>>98822788>how does planned obsolescence workSo back in 1925 all the lightbulb manufacturers decided to come together and decide to make their lightbulbs shittier collectively so that people had to buy more lightbulbs, with fines for anyone who made lightbulbs that lasted too long.This idea has since infected every aspect of our lives and is more commonly known as "that one shitty plastic part" in a otherwise metal machine, or a software update that bricks your machine so you have to buy the new model.As for battletech? Ever heard horror stories from a car owner who has a veteran model where the factory closed down decades ago? You are going to travel to where ever the Sea Fox fleet is to get those spare parts, or you are not getting any at all.Or maybe if you're in the hinterlands you can get either side of the clan jade falcon civil war to hook you up with those replacement parts.
>>98821779It's manic. Just ignore.
>>98822834If my robbuts aren't 250% better than yours then youre the poopdickshitshizo. Simple as
>>98822542>NTA but the issue with these kind of techjumps tends not to be the knowledge but you need to have the tools to build the tools, and that kind of laddering can get crazy quick.Which I'm not trying to claim wouldn't be an issue, but it's not something that would take CENTURIES to reproduce once you knew what you needed to do.>>98822576>Yeah, the internet exists, we can all see anything in action.No dumb ass, I mean "In the same room."Also apparently used X-ray Diffraction Spectroscopy at some point.>>98822601>The real fear was losing the unsupported mid-00's software that ran the thing.Yes, but that doesn't mean people aren't creating X-ray Diffraction Machines, just that they is really REALLY expensive to replace.>>98822655>This guy gets itNo, you really don't...You are just the type of midwit that believes that, because he doesn't understand how something works, that the processes behind it must be a complete and utter mystery for EVERYONE!!!>>98822724>We've got 10m dollar plus welding robots running on windows XP computers with no network capabilities and nothing but the robot software and a program that displays the manual installed.CLEARLY you can't imagine the faintest CONCEPT of Robotic Welding then, right?!>>98822834>No? How did you even infer that from the post? Is that your genuine takeaway?Because TECHNOLOGY MIGHT AS WELL BE MAGIC!!!!YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY MAKE A SMART PHONE IN THE AGE OF STEAM, BECAUSE DIGITAL COMPUTERS AND WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS ARE TOO COMPLEX!!!
>>98822881This man is right. I'm using goddamn metal 1960's GM window cranks on my old Suzuki sidekick because the regular ones don't exist anymore and the chinese repros break after a single year. Don't even know where I'm going to get a decent replacement windshield now that I got a crack growing from an old rock chip.
>>98822582>True grogs would have to be in their 60's now. I haven't run into one in the wild in years.Hopefully they're all dead
>>98822655>You're forgetting about the Millennials who grew up watching the cartoon and are now held hostage by their emotional cortex falsely associating battletech with the positive connotations of being a small innocent child watching a cartoon way cooler than anything else on TV at the time.Man, I'm old. Kristin Redmond was my first fap.
>>98822918Goddamn manic, stfu for once.
>>98822961No, I shall never forgive the grave mistake that is Clan Bullshit.
Rolled 5, 5 = 10 (2d6)>>98822758I guess I'll do founding
>>98822987That actually sorta lines up with the Clans tearing through the pirate kingdoms in the region, so that's neat.
>>98822918>once you knew what you needed to do.Considering that innersphere endosteel never just became clan endosteel, they clearly never did.You are a fucking Siberian goat herder who knows how to fix your sturdy Soviet era shitbox of a truck, because it was designed to be fixed by an illeterate goat herder (like yourself) with nothing but your trusty toolbox.Now build me a smartphone spheroidYou have no internet to look shit up, because that's not on your HPG network only the clan HPG network (They use their own).You have no documentation only word of mouth from some people who have used smartphones passing through who were willing to show you theirs in fully operational order. You still have no global supply chain to produce every component needed along the way, including such minor things such as rare earths refining, aluminium smelting or the computers to program and upload the needed software etc.But you do have a blueprint for a smartphone!So you know, clearly everything you need, get to soldering.
>>98822963Then kill yourself and save us the trouble
>>98823011>Considering that innersphere endosteel never just became clan endosteel, they clearly never did.So say I was a Successor Lord, what exactly stopped me from throwing literal planets worth of resources at this problem?You so desperately NEED the gulf to be between Mudhut primitives and the BLEEDING EDGE OF MILITARY TECHNOLOGY, but we all fucking KNOW it'd be Bleeding Edge Miltech and, at worst, a third world country.Fact is you Tubbies don't have SHIT without your Authorial Fiat, and YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT!
>>98823060I don't care how many Illiterate rice farmers taxes you throw at the problem, even with your best rice scientists and the traitorous nova cats all you managed to produce was a 60 ton knock off Nova with all innersphere tech.This is the height of your efforts spheroidThe only Authorial Fiat is for the wolves and the sphere anytime they actually need to actually win a fight against the clans>Lmao let me just self destruct and then eject from my single Axman and delete the entire falcon guard
>>98823127The inner sphere figured out how to make to spec clantech during the clan invasion, the writers just said it was too hard for the IS to make at scale(but not for the clans for some reason???).
>>98823137>The car IS can make at scale
>>98823137>The inner sphere figured out how to make to spec clantech during the clan invasion, the writers just said it was too hard for the IS to make at scale(but not for the clans for some reason???).See?PURE Fiat, the Clanners aren't actually any better, just protected Mary Sues...
>>98823161The IS was mass producing lostech at the time. You know, the stuff the clans used to invent clantech?
>Meanwhile aboard the Diamond shark space factoryI'm sure those spheroids crawling around on the dirt will figure out how to make Tesla's eventually.Some dayIf they can stop nuking their own factories and scientists for five minutes (Impossible challenge I know)
>>98823181Nice looking Space Factory you got there, be a shame if someone STOLE IT ENTIRELY!>Nuuuu, our honor...
>>98822788You design the parts that are the most difficult to get a replacement for be non-servicable and be the part that breaks first and when it fails it destroys the entire thing. It's the reason everything inside mobile devices is soldered together, is wholly non-standardized and is glued shut at the end and there's no repair documentation.
>>98823189So how many space factories did the innersphere manage to steal again? (No stealing warships is not the same as stealing space factories)
>>98823181>If they can stop nuking their own factories and scientists for five minutes (Impossible challenge I know)>laughs in wars of reaving>laughs in wolverine annihilation
>>98823209>(No stealing warships is not the same as stealing space factories)I mean that's actually MORE impressive considering a Warship is an armed, hostile vessel, which might in fact have Clantech Manufacturing capabilities itself...
>>98822552I'm an early zoomer mechwarrior 5 kiddie turned megamekiddie who owns some mostly unpainted models he'll never do anything with. I feel weird for just generally liking the ilclan era as a good canvas to justify a ton of fighting all over the place with modern tech. It feels wrong that I have no reservations about liking the new mechs like the Eris and Hammerhead. Idk I'm sure my takes are offensive to someone out there
>>98823252>Idk I'm sure my takes are offensive to someone out thereIf a take isn't offensive to someone, then it's not even a take worth mentioning.
>>98823222uhh it don't count because it was done with HONOUR
>>98823252>to justify a ton of fighting all over the place with modern tech.That was the Jihad and the Dark Age. ilClan is just a piece of shit where the clanners won. Has there even been any real new tech 3151+? Most of the "ilClan" variants are just retcons of stuff into the Late DA.
>>98823222>wolverine annihilationTuesday by innersphere standards in terms of infrastructure obliteration>wars of reavingI'm pretty sure both the wolves and falcons collective IQ dropped a couple of points after that one.But you know at that point they had conquered a big chunk of the innersphere so it was just a matter of shitting out enough Locust IICs and Thunderbolt Cs to demolish entire Steiner scout lance being sent at them by social generals dumbfounded by the notion that throwing money at the problem wasn't working.
>>98823222god i hated the end of the steel vipers in that
>>98823247So what did happen to the battleships the innersphere managed to claim as Isorla during operation BULLDOG?Did the dracs blow them up?I get the feeling that the dracs blew them up.
>>98823344I choose to see that event as a cleansing of the Breen sin of stopping Kinnison for executing the demon harpy Winson, and the beginning of a new breed of Steel Viper, finally returned to purity of purpose and plotting rightful vengeance against the traitor Star Adders and their puppet Clans.
I never really understood the point of trying to keep the tech base relatively the same. If they wanted a living timeline then they should have just had the time lines be used for different game types>Pure Introtech: Late SW>Lostech IS base available: SW4/3039>IS Base/Clan Base existing on the same battlefield: Clan Invasion Above is pretty much already set in stone, from there just go >Mixed Tech base(Clan Tech growing in availability, IS tech going nuts with experimenting and having tons of sidegrades): Jihad>Refinement Era where Tech Bases are slowly matching up: RotS era but add in way more secret wars and unreported conflicts >Brief need for Retrotech to act as filler as entire sphere shifts back into full wartime economies: Dark Age>True Universal Hyperadvanced TechBase: ilClanBattletech isn't a tournament game, it's a scenario game, base IS tech and old Clan Mechs can exist just fine in late eras, but as increasingly obsolete weapon platforms that should definitely struggle against new mechs and equipment.
>>98823282>ilClan is just a piece of shit where the clanners won.It's not a piece of shit because the clanners win, the clanners winning was a foregone conclusion when they decided to keep the HPG blackout and Comstars death.Without Comstar the innersphere was always absolutely turbo fucked when facing the clans.It was not the innersphere who won on Tukkayid, it was Comstar.Comstar who had been spying on the clans as supposed allies, while also hoarding all of the best technology for centuries.And they still only won because the clans were too busy dicking each other over and bidding away entire clusters while refusing to coordinate because they viewed each other as a bigger threat.Not to mention bidding away all of their warships due to turtle bay (A mistake they didn't repeat for the second round)Because while Battletech may pretend to revolve around mechs, battleships are what wins the day and the clans always had the most and continue to have the most.
how does /btg/ feel about thishttps://youtu.be/0R6g_xy4OHg?is=_XWnqzQES5tsBWqz
>>98823358I mean it might have been irrationally mad Clanners offended by the very concept of Warships...
>>98823397>but as increasingly obsolete weapon platforms that should definitely struggle against new mechs and equipment.Except this was never the case in battletech, a Warhammer 6R from the 25th century is still a viable weapons platform in 31th centurySure there might be safer variants with Case, or more armor or newer weapons.But a WHM-6R is never obsolete at any point in the battletech timeline and even gets used by both sides.The better question is why even bother with newer technology, when even the Periphery states can mass produces shit buckets in such staggering quantities that the only thing preventing you from blotting out the sun with your massed mech assault is dropship shipping capacity.
>>98823406>was a foregone conclusionThe Houses just literally needed to understand what they did since 3050, that the clans were a bigger threat. Instead, since the FCCW forward, the Steiners go back to acting like Mariks are a bigger threat than Falcons and Wolves which is maximum retard and the problem with the whole narrative since then. The clanners outside the Bears and Crows don't really have any ships left by ilClan, either,and the wolves did not win Terra with a navy.
>>98823487>clans were a bigger threatThe Word of Blake disagrees with your assessment, especially since they actually took Terra unlike the Clans who seemed to be busy with some internal matters at the time.>and the wolves did not win Terra with a navy.No they won by disabling the planetary defenses without firing a single shot, while baiting the falcons into doing all of the hard work grinding Mars down city block by city block.You know typical wolves main character bullshit.
>>98821407>>98821451>>98821487Hey, hey, the knowledge doesn't need to be immediately communicable. You know why?BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE CAPTURED SCIENTISTS, TECHNICIANS AND LABORERS. EMPLOY THEM. WHERE DID THEY GO AFTER BULLDOG? EXODUS 3.0? KERENSKYPOOFS INTO THIN AIR?
>>98823511>he Word of Blake disagrees with your assessment,Coca Cola Classic must establish dominance over New Coke before you can approach the greater threat of Pepsi and Falcon Dew.
>>98823515>BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE CAPTURED SCIENTISTS, TECHNICIANS AND LABORERS. EMPLOY THEM. WHERE DID THEY GO AFTER BULLDOG? EXODUS 3.0? KERENSKYPOOFS INTO THIN AIR?Anon I agree with you, but disingenuous Tubbies are somehow going to claim that all those other Caste that actually built shit wouldn't know what to do without their Warrior Superiors lording over them...
>>98823515>I have captured 10 Taiwanese Semi conductor engineers!>I even grabbed one of their university teachers!>Now go build me a global supply chain to produce all of the modern super materials that I have no idea how to make or have the facilities to reproduce on my own.>What do you mean I have to give you tools that will take me several centuries worth of tool innovations to replicate?>Why can't you just hit it really hard with a hammer to produce Aluminum?>What do you mean you can't hand solder microchips and need a machine to do it for you?>What do you mean by you don't know how to build the machine?
>>98823533...See.
>>98823526>Falcon Dew.
>>98815229I mean they could've just loaded it up with a ton of flechette ammo and a ton of regular ammo for the AC/10, right?
>>98823526So this scheme, it'd be really hard to pull off, right? You're essentially painting up a mech in metal color then freehanding a bunch of little details or putting on tiny transfers, right?
>>98823526But New Coke died and Coke Classic lives on...
>>98823533You also captured all their production facilities which were at the very least repairing frontline equipment. There will be a laborer who remembers where the crate full of How To Repair ER PPC: Jaguar Edition is sitting in the warehouse, which will obviously, completely, unerringly describe what is needed to fix (and thus build) a copy of one.If the scientists have ZERO idea how to reproduce anything they are in charge of researching, iteration and finally overseeing the production of, then what exactly were they doing with their time? Does explain why Clan equipment also stagnated for hundreds of years at least.
>>98823620As it is with Comstar and the Fleet of Blake. PRAISE BLAKE!
>>98823482>The better question is why even bother with newer technologyIt is a more efficient use of limited drop ship space. I get your point though, there is no reason to get rid of a lot of the old stuff. You can just mothball them or send them to second and third line units.
>>98823615>putting on tiny transfersThat is how we do little symbols. I do like some freehand but FPG is good for most things. I'd kill myself if I had to do Northwind Highlander tartan freehand.
>>98823625Kerensky is a GOD therefore eveything betta and nobody cat make it betta alright.
>>98823646...Which Kerensky?
>>98823652yes.
>>98823625>You also captured all their production facilities which were at the very least repairing frontline equipment.Congratulations you can refit an omnimech as long as you have proprietary spare parts, hope that stockpile you captured lasts.>which will obviously, completely, unerringly describe what is needed to fix (and thus build) a copy of one.Yes you just take your fresh space age meta-materials from your giant space factory lathe...What do you mean your house doesn't have a space factory lathe for producing advanced clan endosteel?Oh and you also didn't capture any space factory lathes for producing clan grade endosteel or any of the other novel metamaterials the clans use?Well that's a shame.But at least you can rest easy knowing that if you actually had one, then either the other houses would sabotage it so you can't get a technological edge over them. Or the diamond sharks would show up and confiscate since its cutting into their monopoly on clan tech repair kits.The innersphere is one giant crab bucket, it's why the innersphere can't have nice things since everytime they build it the houses show up to kick over their sand castle.
>>98823672See, baby Tubbie can't stand anyone else touching his special toys!
>>98823684Show some respect surat freebirth! Such toys were wrought from NOTHING by the mighty hands of KHRERENSKY XIMSELF!
>>98823706Was this before or after he died?
>>98823684>Waaah just let me build clan tech!Where's my working smartphone spheroid? Surely you have the production capacity to make working batteries at least? I mean you don't even need fancy Lithography machine for that part.Surely a double heat sink that only takes two critical locations isn't too much for your factories to manage right?
>Only the insane space furries know how to produce and maintain advanced technologyWhat did Fasa mean by this?
>o honorabru hardworking IS ERPPC factory workers>we have captured Clan Smok Yaguarrr personnel and equipment from their C ERPPC department>can we have them work with you to transfer technology within maybe 10-20 years?>oh no no no, I am so sorry Samurai-dono>it will take ONE HUND-DRED YEARS>this has brought great shame upon my famirry! *sudokus*
>>98823721>Where's my working smartphone spheroid?The equivalent of a smart phone-laptop PC hybrid, known as a noteputer, were common personal possessions in urban areas in the inner sphere in the late succession wars period and later.
>>98823874>The equivalentInnersphere programs in trinary not binary, still waiting on that smartphone produced with nothing but steam and black powder age technology.Since you know all you need is the communicable knowledge and suddenly your local blacksmith will shit out a working aluminum smelter and everything else you need.
The comparison of preindustrial eras versus postindustrial eras on Earth is disingenuous. There is a hump that is crossed upon moving into the latter level of understanding and knowledge archival which makes it easier to replicate technology from the future because the basic principles are now well understood. Before electricity and after electricity is the biggest difference for any attempts to replicate an electrical item. This will be greatly amplified by a setting grounded on the concept of cartoonishly extreme stagnation.
>>98823824It's explicitly addressed in lore that Clantech requires infrastructure that doesn't exist in the IS and will take a while to build to, and always be more expensive.Consider today's top-of-the-line microchips compared with those of 30 years ago. Even knowing all of the design steps alright, you probably can't bootstrap it in less than half that. You need to be precise machines to build more precise machines to build even more precise machines...And by the 3060s, we do have IS powers manufacturing Clantech in very small quantities.The the Jihad knocks all of the infrastructure to shit. It takes decades to get back to 3055 technology, let alone exceed it.And, indeed, by 3150 we do see more and more use of Clantech and mixed tech by the IS.
>>98823406>shimmy making 2750-style designsI don't know if I can handle Shimmy doing something I like.At least his jump sails are super retarded, as are his shark fins for the McKenna.
>>98823973>It's explicitly addressed in lore that Clantech requires infrastructure that doesn't exist in the IS and will take a while to build to, and always be more expensive.The clans did it on worlds that had zero clantech infrastructure(and next to no infrastructure or industry at all really) in about 20 years while fighting a war. They went from no clantech to only clantech in a couple decades.The great houses had vast industrial bases, the ability to produce lostech and factories for lostech, and they had constant access to captured examples of pretty much any kind of clantech in existence. If anything, it should have taken even less time for the inner sphere to swap over entirely to clantech than it took the clans.
>>98824017>The clans did it on worlds that had zero clantech infrastructure(and next to no infrastructure or industry at all really)They brought infrastructure from home. Objectives: Clans has all of the clans fielding "Mobile Factory A03L"
>>98824021You mean they brought clantech factories with them before clantech was invented?
>>98824017>>98824021And to add: the Clans could have brought with them the infrastructure to make the factories, which the IS lacked. Just like ASML can make multiple 7mm fabs, while the Chinese can't make any.
>>98824028Oh, I see what you mean, during the Golden Century.It took the Clans decades to develop Clantech during the Golden Century. Which makes sense. No trickery there. The Second Exodus was in 2801. The very first Clantech stars appearing more than 20 years after that.
>>98824030>the Clans could have brought with them the infrastructure to make the factories, which the IS lackedThe inner sphere had functioning lostech factories and the ability to produce more at the time of the clan invasion.Do you know what the clans used to invent clantech?
>>98824038Forgot pic
>>98823968>There is a humpI would like to requisition more humping than this current pointless thread discussion being bandied about by people that have developed more eczema rashes than they have technological progression.
>>98824045you tried 'lil bro
>>98824038The golden century started in the 2830's, almost all clantech is invented and mass produced prior to that.
>>98824052Give humps or rot, penis worm.
>>98822788>how would that even work lmaoIf the sphereoids can't make super-duper clantech propellant for their advanced autocannon ammo, there's nothing stopping the clanners from exporting ammo using inferior super-duper clantech propellant which will increase barrel erosion by like 20% or something while retaining the correct super-duper clantech propellant for internal use.
>>98824067Only dezgra surats care abour years and numbers o algo.
>>98824067>you used the wrong term for the early clan era! That means you're wrong about your point!Catching people in mistakes doesn't win you the argument if the mistakes aren't about the topic under discussion.
>>98823411>how does /btg/ feel about thisCONSUME PRODUCT AND GET EXCITED FOE NEXT PRODUCT
>>98823411Anyone who backs a CGL Kickstarter deserves what they get.Fourth time lucky, I guess. Or is it fifth?
>>98821696That's going to be an extremely silly game.
>>98824102>you used the wrong term for the early clan era! That means you're wrong about your point!The post didn't say that.It's pointing out that clantech was mostly invented before the golden century.It was invented immediately after the second most turbulent period the clans would ever experience, it was mass produced in factories that had to be built from scratch on planets that had been freshly settled for a couple decades at best, planets that by everyone's standards were exceptionally poor and hostile for habitable planets. All of this and the clans went from no clantech to only clantech in a couple decades.It probably shouldn't have taken 100 years for the great houses to barely start to mass produce clantech.
>>98824158>It probably shouldn't have taken 100 years for the great houses to barely start to mass produce clantech.Have you heard of a little thing called the "Gee-Hawed"?
>>98824166You mean the thing that started about 20 years after the clan invasion?So the great houses should have probably been well into mass producing clantech before that.
>>98824123Last one went perfectly for me, but I recognize not all were as fortunate.
>>98824166Nothing that's canon
>>98823411Could not care less, not going to buy it, don't think 3D terrain improves the experience, want more map packs.
>>98824198Did Americans have problems, or was it only overseas customers?
>>98824423https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7NjYcEPQHYSeems to be an overseas issue.
>>98824544Oh, then no problem then. I don't care about that happens to the subhumans unfortunate enough to not live in America. They don't really matter.
>>98824640Hasn't BT always had a strong following in Germany?
>>98824678There's a small, but dedicated following in Japan as well.
>>98824640it's still horseshit that people are still awaiting fulfillment to this day. Even if it isn't directly CGL's fault, someone needs to be punished for their failure.
>>98824678>>98824690>the two most autistic countriesMakes sense
>>98824678I wish everywhere went as hard into it as the Germans. MCA's LGS Atlas mural is an inspiration.
>>98824770>giant legion of vega bannerI need to move to Germany, immediately.
>>98823742Clan Wolf is so Yiffin Noble…..
>>98823824Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Racism!
>>98824868But the samurai was Albert Kawasaki (Mexican-Jamaican) and the factory head was John British (family line traceable to France, Terra).
>>98824784>giant legion of vega bannerFurfaggotry has spread to Germany, clearly. The Nazis didn't go far enough.
>>98824998t. Nondi Steiner, still assmad Teddy K's rats styled on her
>>98823968>There is a hump that is crossed upon moving into the latter level of understanding and knowledge archival which makes it easier to replicate technology from the future because the basic principles are now well understoodThis is even more disingenuous and the peak of midwit arrogance thinking "This is as good as it gets"In two and a half centuries we will either be using design and production methods that seem as alien to us today, as a modern 3d printer would to a 18th century blacksmith lovingly handcrafting every intricate detail to produce anything.Or alternatively we will have bombed ourselves back to the bronzeage and have to first rediscover water filtration before we can move on to bigger things like smelting iron.Let alone Aluminium or rare earths, we already see plenty of knowledge lost to just the neglect of countries not wanting to maintain a particular skillset.Like for example NASA realizing that all of the specialist shops and companies that used the parts they relied on, are gone because no on fed them government contracts for several generations and everyone else retired.With innersphere vs Clan we aren't just talking about a two and a half century technology and knowledge gap.We're talking about someone who has that gap, compared to someone else who spent all of that time nuking themselves into illiteracy .
>>98824039>The inner sphere had functioning lostech factoriesSo how much clan endosteel did those produce?Oh what s that?Zero tons?Oh myHow about how many Clan double heatsink? I mean its only one structure point less, same weight otherwise surely they can quickly retool their factories to produce sleek lithium batteries instead of bulky lead ones.Oh whats that? Again zero? Man the innersphere sucks at producing anything advanced it seems.What about some elemental battlearmor? Surely after stealing fully functional ones and reverse engineering them the innersphere figured out how to slap a machine gun and a two shot SRM2 launcher to a dude in a jumping exoskeletonWhat that?They are so incompetent that they can only figure out how to strap EITHER the machinegun or a single SRM launcher onto their arm?Well this is just getting embarrassing.I guess all the innersphere can use their ancient and dilapidated infrastructure for is mass producing AK 47s and soviet era tanks and planes after all.
>>98824017There is no text stating how much clan tech they had produced after those twenty years, neither do we know how many design and manufacturing optimization they added since then.The innersphere reverse engineering clan tech in 20 years but realizing that they don't have the industrial capacity to make clan shit, lines up perfectly with them getting Jihaded just afterwards when they had the opportunity to start building new raw material production lines, since everything down to the nuts and bolts need to be clan design or the whole thing breaks apart.
>>98824770>the Germans have better LARP>the Germans have a better RPG scene>the Germans have a better wargaming and Battletech sceneMeanwhile we Americans are stuck in LGS hell surrounded by 40k and MtG fags who make it extremely fucking difficult to get a community most other games going in most areas
