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So which splats are actually in danger of being 'extinguished'?

The Mages seem like they're a good candidate, between the Technocracy enforcing a mundane consensus reality on the world that's even affecting their own mages, and the Traditions basically going full hypocrisy and embracing their own rules.

The Werewolves IIRC are gradually decreasing in number, and since their whole schtick is basically fighting a constant war they might disappear someday.

The Vampires despite the Second Inquisition are never really implied to ever truly be under any threat of extinction, especially given how most of the time the Inquisition is just vampires throwing hunters at other vampires.

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>Absolutely no one: [crickets]
>Some Random Tzimisce for some reason:

>>98811261
>No even an "edition" name in the thread
>Retarded shitty JPG image with 0 meaning whatsover
If you're not going to make a proper OP let the bakeslave do it you fucking mongoloid piece of shit.

>>98811399
Path of Metamorphosis is the best way to achieve enlightenment and Cainites following other paths are just jealous.

>>98811399
BEHOLD, MY DREAD ZULO FORME! AZI DAHAKA IS AT MY FINGERTIPS, SOON I SHALL BECOME SOMETHING BEYOND CAINITE, BEYOND CAINE HIMSELF!

>dies to some dipshit Brujah, because he still has no in-clan combat disciplines.

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>>98811399
You lost, Tremeretard. Cry harder.
>Also Lasombra beating Ventrue ass too

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What's the most authentic 90s Youtube (not Youtube music) music playlist for WoD sessions?

>>98811486
Good for you that you won something, unlike the Omen War.

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>>98811475
I see what you did there

>>98811513
Bragging about being a nepobaby, tremeretard?

>>98811513
It ended with stalemate.
Also, Ceoris, the HQ of clan Tumor got ZUTTED by the Tzims.

>>98811399
>May I borrow a cup of CAINITE VITAE?! *zulo noises*

>>98811288
Stat him, /tg/.

>>98811570
You FUCKING lose.

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Are Marauders playable?

>>98811486
>posting the /v/tard infiltrated poll

>>98811724
>Tremere lost
>Suddenly poll is not valid
Lmao

>>98811724
Why would /v/ like Tzimisce? Aren't they more into fishmalks because of Jeanette in the Bloodlines game, and maybe Tremere for Aisling in the Paradox games? That would make the lead for dragons even more significant.

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>>98811785
Tbh, I'm a Tzigger and even I like Aisling

>>98811804
Made for Mutated Tzimisce Cock!

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>The type of shit the Heavenly Chorus be getting up to

>>98811880
*Celestial Chorus

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>Fucking Santa Clause is canonically a Marauder
Tbh at this point I don't see how the Marauders aren't the good guys

Ghost fits World of Darkness well I’d say. Especially if you have a Baali antagonist.

Question: While in his Crinos form, are his cock and balls hanging out? Asking for a tribesman.

>>98811959
garou in crinos form have sheaths (yes even the women)
next question

>>98812014

I'm new to VtM and am curious just how resilient vamps are in terms of regeneration. Can they like, grow back lost limbs if they get enough blood, or is mutilated mutilated forever? Whats the most survivability a vamp can get?

>>98812065
Vampires are in stasis, retaining the appearance that they had at the moment of their embrace.
No matter how gravely they are injured, if they survive, they will be regenerated sooner or later. Though more grievous the damage, the more vitae the regeneration drains.

>>98812065
>>98812074
Also, it must be noted, that this applies to normal maiming, not the deformation that was caused by supernatural means like Vicissitude, which might be incurable on its own, depending on the circumstance.

>>98812079

So like, if a werewolf rips off your leg and eats it, it will eventually come back?

>>98812065
Everything grows back, whether nightly or over time with blood. Exceptions only in regards to certain magical things, but not many, and your average vampire will probably never encounter them unless they live in an area with Tzimiscie.

>>98812091
Yes.

>>98812109
>>98812079
>>98812074

Wait, not that anon, but there has to be a limit right? Like... what if you're just a head? Or if everything gets obliterated but your heart is still unstaked?

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>tell a hunter there's a nest of leeches in the sewers
>he gets eaten
>another hunter arrives to avenge his brethren
>Say the same thing
>Rinse and repeat

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>>98812117
Depends, but with enough damage you can either fall in torpor or just outright meet final death. And yes, Beheading, is one of them. Unless you're a sufficiently strong Tzimisce. Then you can just do Dio shit.

>>98811534
*gargoyles. the tzimisce actually never made it into Ceoris despite sieging it atleast thrice

they sieged it thrice before the book house of tremere and been preparing another but we are never told if it actually happened

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Two questions:

How often do you borrow from the other World of Darkness (if you're playing from OWoD, using NWoD mechanics or lore for example, or visa versa)?

And how often do you have splats 'overlap' in the same real world organizations or ideologies/beliefs?

To use an example:
>The rise of Pentecostalism being done through the efforts of the Celestial Chorus to bring about a consensus reality that allows for more holy miracles, meanwhile said religion is also being propped up by the Long Night Hunter compact as their belief in the supernatural and fanaticism is useful for obtaining recruits with True Faith power

>>98812117
usually ripping off a head would probably do enough damage to kill a vampire but tzimisce with the power The Body Impolitic are known to turn some of their organs into seperate beings that they can regenerate from and vampires who switch bodies using the Bone Path of necromancy can by accident regenerate their new body to look like their old body if they are too fucked up (no rules for that part however)

For Kindred, do you have to have protean to be a good unarmed fighter?

>>98812252
no-ish there is also a combination power in vtm that makes fist damage agg

Burning Wrath
(Celerity •••, Potence •••)
Among the purest expressions of Brujah fury, this power
lets the vampire focus her anger through her vitae and
then through her fists.
System: This power costs 1 blood point and lasts for
a scene. Any Brawl attacks augmented with this power
inflict aggravated damage.
This power costs 18 experience points to learn.
-LORE OF THE CLANS 49


but it's easier and costs less exp to to just learn protean 2 and there are combination powers that also make claws do more damage as well. so you can do agg damage without it but protean would still be optimal

>>98812117
Generally:
If you're burnt alive, decapitated or bathed jn the light of the Sun, it's Over.
If you're staked or drained of all your blood you can survive, if you get the stake out and/or some blood in.
If you're beaten to shit until torpid, a lower Gen vampire's blood will be required to take you out of it.
If someone eats your soul via diablerie, you have a chance to survive in their body, but if your attacker wins you're deadest of all deads.

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>Nossie summons his squirrel horde to eat his enemies

>>98812252
Not necessarily. But Protean is a really great discipline. Unarmed Agg damage, seeing in the dark, safety from the sun as long as you can find a patch of dirt, mist form. It's great.

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>>98812321
>They're in turn, eaten by a pet rabbit of a local Voevode.

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>Vampire and Hunters interact with each other constantly
>All the other splats might as well not even exist in relation to the other splat

>>98812345
Well, vampires and hunters are the weakest of splats. If you introduce the rest of the spats, there would be no stories to be told.

>>98812345
that's because hunters hunted (and hunters hunted 2) is a vtm book

and hunter outside of the imbued and dark age inqusitors are not a splat in owod and those two are equal opportunity hunters with equal amount of text being printed for each splat with demons being slightly above the rest if anything but that's mostly because the pov of devil's due is a red order inquisitor

>>98812345
Because those two (and maybe demons) are the only ones worth giving a shit about

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>>98812377
I doubt that's the reason, the higher level vampires require the combined efforts of every other splat combined to handle after all. It's more just that the Vampires prey on humans, and the Hunters protect humans by killing Vampires, while Werewolves, Mummies, Mages, Demons, and all that other stuff doesn't actually interact much with humans much and tends to be isolated off in their own little worlds of spirits and monsters that exist mostly just to fight each other. Mages, for all their cosmic power, basically don't actually matter in the setting and aren't even noticeable enough to be hunted by any of the other splats.

>>98812345
you can always squeeze in a haunting here and there to add some spice to another splat's chronicle

>>98812345
This is what happens when you only read WOD20 or worse yet, anything made in Paracuck 5. Wolves and vampires have a very strong shared splat. And their adventures are of one the best too. Is just that this general is obsessed with the wieckslop that is mage. Unironically "hunters" are more irrelevant to vampires than wolves and mages.

>>98812513
There's like one Hunter group in NWoD that hunts mages and none in OWoD. Most hunters don't even know that mages exist cause for the most part mages don't really do anything.

>>98812516
If hunters hunted mages it will prove they're pieces of shit that deserve to be dissected like sabbat does to them. Since mages are just humans. That aside, mage is constrained by the "world of darkness" trying to force things happening in the real world.

>>98812600
>Since mages are just humans
Humans yes, but still dangerous reality warpers.

Chudcel Mage son or Thot Kindred daughter?

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For a mage, if you alter something with obviously vulgar magic in such a way that it would continue to be vulgar to everyone who sees it, how does that work with Paradox? Like if you turns someone into a rat-girl, does that just continuously dump paradox on you every time someone sees it, or is it a one and done sort of thing?

Asking for a friend since I have a group that might wanna try mage but they're worried that Paradox will stop them from doing fun stuff.

>>98812716
What your friend needs to do is manipulate the general public into believing there were always rat girls.

>>98812735
So is Paradox more of a public thing, or an individual thing? If, for example, a player were to turn a lone sleeper into a rat-girl in the sewers where nobody else could see, would that trigger paradox?

>>98812736
>If, for example, a player were to turn a lone sleeper into a rat-girl in the sewers where nobody else could see, would that trigger paradox?

I don't really know shit about Mage, but I think it would work. There's a lot of sci-fi shit that the Technocracy has that works because it happens away from Sleepers.

>>98812736
a witness is a witness even if it is the target

>>98812906
Fair, but I know there's way to mitigate Paradox, I'm just curious whether a continuous effect like someone staying a rat-girl will be a continuous problem for paradox or if you can cause the transformation for someone, deal with the initial outburst of paradox, and then it's not a problem after.

>>98812916
been a while since i played mage but i think paradox was only upon casting for spells and activation for wonders and relics unless we are talking superhuman stats

but again this is just me going by memory

>>98811474
>implying that several of the "don't compare notes, spend centuries reinventing the wheel" rules weren't put in so the Eldest could outsource those stupid niche possibilities and experiments using his kids as unpaid interns

>>98812341
And there's the fourth dot that's just kind of there.

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Repeating from last thread:
what are your favourite flaws?

>>98811261
>fucked up previous
>didn't post in the last thread
>stupid question

>>98812079
>tfw you want to punish a shovelhead so you vic his arms and legs away and then dominate him into jerking off

>>98812716
>>98812855
>>98812916
Retroactive Paradox isn't a thing. A mage only gains Paradox at the casting of spell unless you're using a canon rote that specifically says otherwise.
If a mage casts a spell somewhere where it is coincidental, they do not gain Paradox even if the spell functions in a location where it is vulgar. As an example, turning someone into a ratgirl in their sewer sanctum is coincidental and if the ratgirl leaves and goes out in public, no Paradox is gained.
However, there is something called Unbelief. If something that defies consensus or is vulgar goes out in public, whether it's a unicorn or an android or a ratgirl, if it obviously doesn't conform to reality as people accept it, it may start suffer from damage due to Unbelief, depending on how severe the Unbelief is. So if the ratgirl decides to go clubbing with normies, she may end up dissolving into goo, even if the mage suffers no consequence.
>Asking for a friend since I have a group that might wanna try mage but they're worried that Paradox will stop them from doing fun stuff.
Unless you're playing Revised or casting vulgar spells literally all of the time, please ignore the memes about how Paradox will make a mage explode into confetti as soon as an office worker sees them light a cigarette with their finger.
In most editions of Mage, a mage can get away with casting two or three vulgar spells or one big botch a session, without suffering life-changing consequences.
But more importantly, constantly living in fear of Paradox and desperately trying to make every spell that you cast coincidental is a good way to suck all of the fun out of Mage. A few points of Paradox aren't going to kill your mage, live a little and do some really flashy magic, especially in high risk situations like combat.

>>98813322
Every time I read Paradox I think the company paradox now

>>98813322
>Unless you're playing Revised or casting vulgar spells literally all of the time, please ignore the memes about how Paradox will make a mage explode into confetti as soon as an office worker sees them light a cigarette with their finger.
That's a case of the rules being dogshit most likely since the fluff for mage sure seems to like hyping up Paradox.

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>>98813322
Thanks, I'll let my players know that their dreams of keeping unwilling towns-worth of transformed people as pet rat-girls is in fact possible so long as they make sure the normies don't see them after transformation.

>jiangshi
Disciplines: potence for jumping over building, presence for scaring people, and I don't know a third
Bane: Rigor Mortis does not wear off in undeath. The body is stiff enough to require hopping unless the Kindred uses Blush of Life. Even then, their joints might creak or pop and cause pain.
Compulsion: Eisoptrophobia, a fear of mirrors and more broadly the reflection. A Jiangshi must avoid their own reflection at all costs. From throwing rocks into water to break the surface, to shattering glass mirrors, and smashing computer screens showing a recording. If a Jiangshi has to be in a scene with their reflection, they get some kind of penalty until it's destroy or they are removed from the area.

>>98813329
Unless you're going with Revised, which really does go out of its way to punish vulgar magic because of the metaplot reason of the Technocracy winning and making the Consensus extremely hostile to vulgar magic, none of the books are so extreme as to make it seem like one or two vulgar spells cause a mage to explode. It's more likely that you've internalised memes from internet communities.
In 1e, 2e and M20, Paradox does become dangerous after a long chronicle of casting dozens of vulgar spells and gradually building up Paradox over twenty, thirty sessions. That's when Paradox backlash will start to inflict character-killing amounts of damage, start turning you into a potted plant for the remainder of the session, or start sending you to Paradox Realms.
Revised is the only edition where throwing a fireball in public might reasonably trigger a backlash event all on its own and even then, it'll still take two or three sessions of throwing fireballs at every enemy for that Paradox to build up to potentially lethal backlashes.
Finally, no one wants to play a game called Mage only to be brutally punished every time that they dare to cast actually cool magic. Paradox is there to make sure they don't go overboard with it and use vulgar magic for every problem, it's not there to bully Mage players into posing as normies 24/7 instead of roleplaying their mages as actual mages.

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>>98813372
>>98813329
When I ran Ascension I used Revised rules for quantity of Paradox (so Highest Sphere I think points per casting, or per *roll* for rituals); but got rid of the entire concept of 'Vulgar Without Witnesses'. So my players did lots of crazy shit but made sure nobody ever saw them. In my experience it was only three or four spells [or about 9-16 Paradox points] before shit turned into very gnarly backlashes. I might be misremembering exact rules as the campaign was ten years ago but something like that.

>>98813048
You can do all kinds of fun and useful stuff with two kinds of animals. Fourth dot's got nothing to be ashamed of.

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The SCP Foundation ends up in World of Darkness. How would they fare against the monsters and reality warpers that hold all the power in the setting?

>>98813459
Your average SCP breaks reality in two in ways that would make Antediluvians blush, I think they'll manage.

>>98813346
Unless the transformation part is part of your goon-sesh, there's were-rats. You could use mind-control on them to make them your waifus.

>>98813459
Any iteration of the SCP Foundation at best gets compromised by vampires, the Technocracy, or Pentex, and at worst they get buck broken like Tariq Nasheed's wildest erotic dreams.

>>98813486
>Unless the transformation part is part of your goon-sesh, there's were-rats.
Truth be told the ratgirl thing was basically just an example. The players will be doing all sorts of degenerate shit.

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>>98813459
Even the weakest versions of the SCP Foundation would still be in the same ballpark as the Technocracy even if most of the MTFs are weak as shit even when dealing with their niche.

>>98813461
I think they would work fine the problem is integrating them in a way that makes them a worth while addition. Most of the articles I have seen about them are just not something that works on a TTRPG or already has a parallel in WoD.

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>>98813461
The SCP Foundation never fairs well in settings where it's not already the top dogs of the setting. Sure, if a vampire was transported into the SCP verse I'm sure the foundation could contain it, but the Foundation being transported into the WoD-verse? Lmao they're fucked.

There's a reason all of the Hunter organizations in WoD are either weak and ineffectual, or actually puppet organizations of one of the supernatural splats. Much like Exalted, WoD is built on the premise that humans just kinda suck.

>>98813512
SCP isn't built on that premise though and the SCP Foundation is ending up in the World of Darkness. Not the SCP Foundation being made in the World of Darkness where humans are slavish bug-people, but the SCP Foundation as is ending up in the World of Darkness.

>>98813512
>>98813486
While I get where you are coming from, like seriously some of the shit we have seen the foundation get up is monumentally retarded, any major infiltration by the WoD side sounds kind of bullshit despite the precedents.

>>98813527
And that would be a conversation killer of "what version of the Foundation would they be dealing with and what the fuck would they even do?" Because you can go a thousand different ways with that.

>>98813540
Any version of the SCP Foundation that manages to thrive intact without being compromised by the SCPs that it safeguards is leagues beyond anything that the World of Darkness has to offer.

>>98813527
Sure, but ultimately they're still just human. Outside of a small handful of reality warpers and Technocracy-level bullshit tech they don't really have much to compete with the others.

Keep in mind that, unlike most of what the Foundation faces, most of the supernatural splats have no obvious weaknesses for the Foundation to exploit.

>>98813534
>any major infiltration by the WoD side sounds kind of bullshit despite the precedents.
I mean really, what can the Foundation actually do when mages just...wish them out of existence?

The SCP Foundation is like the God-Machine in CoD. It’s powerful, but performs a niche task that meshes with the powers that be. So those powers use it to fulfil their own ends.
The risk is hubris, the organisation is a useful tool but is also smart enough to bite back at an obvious supernatural force.

>>98813508
They have a lot of MTFs though

>>98813548
Oh no, they only have the same sort of shit that the most powerful faction in the World of Darkness responsible for turning an Antediluvian to ash without breaking a sweat has. How could they ever cope?

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>>98813567
The difference is the Technocracy can make that shit on the fly. The SCP Foundation has to painstakingly extract that kind of technology, often from living creatures, often at great expense in personnel and resources.

The Technocracy could toy around with the Foundation without much resistance. One of them is an organization that just barely manages to keep some reality benders in check despite having the resources of their setting, the other is an organization composed of reality benders that rules the setting.

>>98813534
I think you overestimate whichever iteration of the SCP Foundation you once loved, anon.

>>98813555
Same thing the technocrats do. Same thing the vampires, werewolves, and everyone else does. Ignore it.

>>98813575
Technocrats also burn a lot of human resources in their research.

>>98813566
Knowing what I know of certain developments within the IRL SCP circlejerk I confess I don't know what MTF may stand for and I'm interpreting it as "male to female" in the transsexual sense.

>>98813559
It depends on what era and tier of SCP we're talking about, every writer either pushes a cool insane OC, peddles a foundation that can do nothing and is stretched thin or literally against god, or they get help from some god class SCP that helps them contain. I like some earlier stories where the SCP is strong and clearly established but they can't contain actual god entities so they have to do absurd rituals and techniques.

If anything, your average SCP technique borders on so absurd and ritualistic it should count as True Faith

>>98813555
>what can the Foundation actually do when mages just...wish them out of existence?
Ignoring the fact that the Traditions or Technocracy aren't really capable of doing that shit with some ToJ level of hand waving, there are a lot of SCPs that act as reality bunkers in a way similar to horizon realms.

Even if they managed to cut the head of the Foundation there are plenty of weeds they would have to kill to make sure that sticks without getting killed by whatever bullshit they unleashed in the process.

>>98813566
And most of them are kind of a nothing burger of memory serves but I'm sure there are enough outliers to make them a threat in WoD.

>>98813588
Mobile Task Force, they're basically trained combat grunts. Well "trained" as much as it can get for parasitic nervous systems and unkillable reptiles

>>98813578
As always it's just me only remembering the Foundations wins and ignoring most of the losses.

>>98813588
Bruh.

>>98813623
In other words they are basically Vigil Compacts and Lesser Templates.

>>98813534
How does the Chaos Insurgency exist, then?
>>98813459
The problem for the Foundation is that the supernaturals exist in a much more organized and frankly dominant manner than they did in most continuities when the Foundation started off.

It ultimately really depends on how you drop them in, because if you go the 'government funded' route then they have to deal with technocrats and vampires controlling their funding. Ultimately, I think they'd do okayish, but they definitely would not be top dogs and would likely lose some ground starting off and probably not gain a lot of it back.

>>98813583
But the foundation is just regular people. They don't have the protection that other creatures get.

>>98813638
The foundation has vampires and werewolves both in captivity and on staff.

>>98813638
It's popular for the modern foundation to be basically wokiefied and employ some anomalous people on staff.

>>98813614
My clearest (and incomplete) memory of the SCP was some particularly self-wanking piece of fiction they used to "purify" the SCPs and get rid of entries that people in power considered cringe. I remember one of the self-inserts riding around on the decaying alligator SCP while female characters gushed verbally and otherwise about how they'd never seen anything so badass.

>>98813641
>>98813645
Sure but that's of limited utility, you largely get protection by being supernatural yourself in WoD, just being some muggle next to one won't help you much.

What a terrible thread

>>98813655
>Sure but that's of limited utility, you largely get protection by being supernatural yourself in WoD, just being some muggle next to one won't help you much.
Even older iteration SCPFs had decent security measures, but yes, a vampre with good Dominate, Pres, and Obsfucate could walk through a number of encounters.
>>98813661
I've seen worse. They can't all be bangers.

>>98813629
Vigil compacts on like a global conspiracy level yeah. Kind of like a privatized Task Force Valkerie though they have a supernatural unit for heavy hitter scps (I disagree with it though)

>>98813661
There's still that back up. We could always jump ship.
>>98812920

>>98813668
And even then, we can see how helpless Hunters really are when even the stronger Hunter orgs like Task Force Valkyrie ultimately just end up being Vampire puppets

>>98813673
Its OP is far more soulful than this one

>>98813673
The same people are going to be posting in any WoD general. Just let this thread ride out and then use the backup if it's still around when we're wrapping up here.

>>98813637
>How does the Chaos Insurgency exist, then?
Black ops asset gone rouge or working as intended.

Let me phrase it another way, the Foundation has dealt with enough of what they would encounter in WOD that I don't really buy them being taken over in a meaningful way like what happened in the containment breach.

>>98813661
Don't worry it's about to get even worse.

>>98813692
I think the thing about the SCP Foundation is that they can't really do anything a sufficiently well-funded Hunter organization couldn't do, and we already know that the Hunters are by far the weakest splats in the setting

>>98813692
>Black ops asset gone rouge or working as intended.
They do consistently infiltrate the Foundation even up to high levels, is what I was saying. Whether or not they're intended to be doing this, it's not like they don't have to work against Foundation security protocols for it.
>Let me phrase it another way, the Foundation has dealt with enough of what they would encounter in WOD that I don't really buy them being taken over in a meaningful way like what happened in the containment breach.
Taken over? I don't think so, yes, you're correct. Maybe I misread what you were saying. Infiltrated? Yes, they will be, and it will be noteable.

>>98813668
I was talking about how some of their niches mirror the status buffs you get from the conspiracies or how some of the high end stuff have counterparts.

Like Samsara is basically a cell of Lost Boys and the Village Idiots probably have nothing burger reward like the animal control compact.

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It should be noted that there's enough linear magic in the setting for even Hunter organizations to be getting in on the sorcery/theurgy, and yet the Hunters still never rise above 'minor nuisance' levels.

>>98813661
wish I could upvote this, it's that bad

Hello, I'm new. Haven't played a game yet. I think I want to try being a tzimisce. Kidnap people and warp them into fucked up servants.

>>98813725
Just keep in mind you need to run everything past your group and not all concepts work with all people or styles of GMing.

>>98813699
>think the thing about the SCP Foundation is that they can't really do anything a sufficiently well-funded Hunter organization couldn't do

Nah they are a lot closer to Shinzui Industries. They have enough supernatural shit of their own that comparing them to hunters feels like too much of a lowball even when being very conservative with their capabilities.

>>98813712
I think that's an inside joke at this point. Like the best way to deal with a true faith priest is just stoning them.

>>98813748
Yeah the Hunters are basically the Tau Empire of the setting. They take themselves seriously, but nobody else takes them seriously.

>>98813699
>Sufficiently well-funded
It's best to assume that money is no object to SCP, since they've basically got a hold on every major government

>>98813712
>>98813748
>>98813751
To be fair, any human that goes to the levels of True Faith or Sorcery required to actually go toe to toe with the supernatural is supernatural themselves

>>98813756
Sure but there's a reason even the hunter orgs that do exist don't try to break the masquerade, when it comes to humanity vs the supernatural in a straight up fight humanity loses that war.

So, Revised era being a lot more pro-Camarilla and pro-Technocracy than previous editions. Was that a shift in the writing team? A response to the fandom? Everyone going batshit after 9/11? What drove the trend?

>>98813763
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it makes me wonder why the Masquerade exists and the supernaturals aren't openly ruling. Vampires control a lot from the shadows but it's not like they need to hide in modern nights.

I think the books maybe say that back in the Dark Ages most humans had like True Faith 1 so it would be a bad time for vampires at least, but I don't think that means as much Garou or Mages or Fae.

>>98813787
>most humans had like True Faith 1
No, they did not.

>>98813785
>What drove the trend?
these two basicly
>A response to the fandom? Everyone going batshit after 9/11?
you can't sell the end of history as a antagonist faction when the very idea becomes disproven

and not sure about the camarilla but the technocracy books just did just outsell the tradition books even during the m20 kickstarter era


that being said where is the favorite convention poll?

>>98813787
>but it makes me wonder why the Masquerade exists and the supernaturals aren't openly ruling
Different reasons depending on each splat.

>Vampires do legitimately need to hide from the Technocracy (and Werewolves to a lesser extent), and the less open warfare they have to wage on humanity the more 'cattle' they have to feed upon so it's better to just avoid the uprisings in the first place by not pretending to hide
>Werewolves generally are on the side of humanity as a whole (albeit in a very "ends justify the means" way) and hiding means fewer humans have to be killed or suffer delirium
>The Technocracy is enforcing a consensus reality that requires that they not be an obvious part of it, and this consensus reality is dominant enough that even the Traditions can't just show the sleepers magic without it massively hurting the Sleepers in the process
>The Fae don't actually really care but they're hard enough to find in the first place
That's the gist of it. As for your other thing...

>I think the books maybe say that back in the Dark Ages most humans had like True Faith 1 so it would be a bad time for vampires at least
This is not really true. It should be noted that the First Inquisition was actually spurred on by vampires to get rid of other vampire competition, and that the Inquisition completely failed in its
goal of actually getting rid of vampires. The only vampires that really died in the inquisition were some low level 12th gen patsies that their lords threw to the mobs to throw them off the scent. At no point were the big bosses like the 4th and 5th gens ever remotely threatened by the Inquisition, and even the modern Inquisition isn't really a concern to them.

The reason the Inquisition and Second Inquisition get mentioned is because they're a threat to the players in the Vampire games, but the player is usually low level patsy.

>>98813809
>Werewolves generally are on the side of humanity as a whole (albeit in a very "ends justify the means" way) and hiding means fewer humans have to be killed or suffer delirium
Also less chance of humans hearing some of the unsavory parts of their history and deciding that werewolves need to go.

>>98813822
That too, although Werewolves would probably win a war against humans alone, the Technocracy is still hunting Werewolves so they still need to hide from them for the same reason Vampires do

>>98813831
Like with every other splat vs humans it would probably boil down to both losing horribly.
>total kinfolk death
>all the banes getting freed

>>98813831
no they won't they are too few. dark age werewolf said that the 13th century is the last time when the garou would win in a all out war against humans NOT counting splats and that if someone leaks the garou weakness to silver that's already enough to turn the tides

you have to remember how small the garou population is. That very few of those are high rank and that a lot of npcs are build like shit

>>98813839
Sure but you're missing a key factor here: Delirium. Like 90% of humans just by seeing the Werewolf will go into a panic or fall unconscious on-site. And let's be honest, there's no way humanity is getting enough silver weapons out to make a difference before the werewolves have torn society to shit.

>>98813855
The Delirium's only a thing because werewolves did the whole Impergium thing, and I don't think it's just the Red Tardons who want to initiate Impergium II: Garou Buggaloo.

>>98813866
Sure but that's sort of the whole thing with humans isn't it? They get their asses handed to them so hard that submissiveness becomes a genetic trait. Hell, that's not just a thing in Werewolf, that's basically all of White Wolf's games, even Exalted engages in that.

Which, I mean, good, HFY is a cancer on the Earth.

>>98813839
if ToJ is to be believed, the red talons know a secret rite for making every volcano in the pacific explode, thus causing a volcanic holocaust and massive crop failure across the globe. also the wendigo apparently can just awaken nuclear arsenal spirits and bypass the need for nuclear codes to directly launch every nuke in the world

>>98813878
ToJ is full of "here's what it would take for X to become a major apocalyptic threat" for the chosen tribe.

>>98813884
to be fair the last one sounds pretty plausible. a group of players could in theory pull it off pretty easily

>>98813839
that's more because dark age humanity is build different from the soft and weak humanity of the final nights case in point
>>98813855
delirum is not that strong in medival time any disbelieve go for berserk rage or terror instead and they will all remember the garou regardless of willpower rating. can't post the quote for that because it's from the 1e dark age werewolf book and i only have that one as a scan it's very early in the book

and finally this is what the 2e book says about garou vs humanity in the dark ages setting they would win if not for any of these 3 things

> First, several tribes of Garou - the Children of Gaia, the Bone Gnawers, and the Warders ofMen in particular would fight against such an act with all their might.
>Second, while humans by themselves could be defeated, the vampires would almost certainly add their considerable might to humanity (as the Leecheslove the cities), and this could well turn the tide.
>Finally, once such a war began, the humans would eventually discover the truth about silver. Even Garou have their weaknesses. While they are all but immune to most wounds, silver is their most feared bane. Silver, the lunar metal, burns werewolves, and they have little defense against it - even a silver arrowhead can slay a Garou. This weakness is not widely known however, and the humans most likely to know of it are also the least likely to be able to afford enough silver to forge into a weapon. If the Garou went to war against humanity, however, someone would bring their weakness to light, and that could spell doom for the werewolves.

>>98813898
Okay I did say 'humans alone would be beaten', even that snippet you mentioned says that the Vampires are throwing their weight behind humans.

>>98811307
Changelings

>>98813902
did you not the read the third point humanity finding out about silver alone could also "spell doom for the werewolves."

now i have no idea where that silver industrial complex would come from as the book itself points out how rare silver weapons are in the dark age but what's in the book is in the book

only if they don't find out about silver, half the garou nation wouldn't stand against it and vampires wouldn't exist then the garou would be able to
>destroy the biggest cities in Europe and return humanity to a more primal state

I had a dream today that I was watching a streaming service made MtA short series that was well received both here and by the general public since it followed the source material pretty closely. Though the only thing I remember was an episode about a guy in his 50s who'd been working as a programmer since the 90s. He gets hit by a truck, which rewires his brain or something and he starts noticing things which leads to him awakening as a Virtual Adept. The catch is that since he's a newbie he's forced to apprentice to a bunch of teenage zoomer adepts that spend 23 hours a day on their laptops and he hates it.

Realistically I highly doubt something as metaphysical and complicated as Mage would ever catch on and be popular among the masses. People would bitch and whine about how ''it doesn't make sense'' and how ''the magic system is too open and just an excuse to throw everything in the kitchen sink''. They would probably not take the whole science = magic well either.

>>98813878
if a non canon book is to be believed about the canon setting then X

what is it with this general and sucking up to ToJ?

>>98813921
Sure, but that's assuming just the Werewolves get their masquerade broken and nobody else does.

>>98813924
I think the thing that pisses me off the most about Mage is how arbitrary it is.
It has the same problem as Beast the Primordial, where it made EVERYTHING ELSE center around it retroactively. Like, now all the cool supernatural shit is just Consensus. That's dumb

>>98813932
sure open war would be a total cluster fuck especially at the 1230 (or was it 1215?) start date and especially when you also count the books that came out after dark age: werewolf like dark age:fae, dark age:mage and devil's due

and it's not like they would all be on the side of humanity like the british fae have bad blood with the garou that the garou don't remember that acording to dark age fae (i guess the author forgot about ancestor spirits) but also hate the church so they are split, demons are split between demons that want to rule humanity and destroy it. now mages would probably be mostly on the side of humanity but i'll be honest i am not sure how common mages are meant to be in the dark ages

>>98813929
because not everyone wants to do street level play forever

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>>98813940
The best way to view Mages is the same way that Mages view Marauders desu. That is to say, Mages see Marauders as people so lost in their own delusions that they can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore...but the exact same is true of mages.

After all, the Mages don't actually know what's going on. They literally are just as clueless to answering the questions of the universe as any sleeper. They have magic powers, but no answers, if you ask them how any of this shit works they genuinely don't know and can't help you.

>>98813949
ToJ doesn't actually let you play a high end character. in most scenarios it's pretty much just watching named characters who are too strong for stats fight in the sky

not to be rude but i been wondering has anyone here actually ever played the dark age books beside vampire?

>>98813878
>Be Glasswalker Garou
>Somehow manage to get a job at a nuclear power plant, your elders want to see just how dangerous this new breed of wyrm spirit really is
>Step sideways, spiders everywhere, but they're busy maintaining the site to ludicrous levels
>As the plant is new, have to use Rite of Spirit Awakening on the core of the reactor to awaken the dormant spirit within
>"TURN ME INTO A BOMB"
>What
>"TURN ME INTO A BOMB AND I'LL TEACH YOU HOW TO TURN YOUR CLAWS INTO RADIOACTIVE BOMBS. THEY CAGE MY TRUE FORM IN THIS LIQUID PRISON. AWAKEN ME. SIMPLY KILL THE WARDEN AND SHATTER HIS WEAPONS. YOU WILL HAVE 5 MINUTES TO ESCAPE.

Do you accept?

>>98813940
Yeah, it really works better as its own hermetically sealed universe, otherwise it hard to explain how the each of splats would exist on its own, without going into shit like:

>the Technocracy does know about Pentex. They just don't. Also they actively fight RDs, but they just let the Camarilla and Sabbat do their shit. Why? They just do, okay!

>>98813956
Or by just shamelessly kneecapping them with the Withering in vampire's case
>here's a bossfight with Tremere himself!
>...and now he can't use any disciplines

>>98813874
You're just trading the H for a different race. Vampire Fuck Yeah or Dragonblooded Fuck Yeah is just as gay.

>>98813924
Your subconscious has good taste in media, older people being treated as juniors by people who might as well be kids in comparison is a hilarious and great trope.

>>98813955
Marauders are just Mages^2 who figured out how to avoid paradox (by making everyone else deal with it).

>>98813958
Something is clearly wrong, nuclear is the cleanest energy we have as a civilization. The Wyrm's minions must've meddled with the spirit, so I'm probably gonna spend the next couple sessions trying to learn about its affliction and heal it.

>>98813956
anon...? ToJ doesn't even have maps. Most of them have some form of armageddon count down clock mechanics that you're supposed to use across multiple sessions. And it literally tells you that this is only how things tend to go, you're free to use the themes and ideas presented for whatever ending you want, like an epic 200 session about uniting all the splats to finally take down le asswad. either creativity is dead or this general is filled with non-storytellers

>>98813967
It leaves behind radioactive toxic waste. They had a whole page in one of the werewolf books about how they were going to stick with harmful radiation being produced by fission being of the wyrm. After all, even the Wyrm is required for reality to function, it's just that that process can be used to destroy a LOT of things.

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>>98813964
And that's really the truth of it. Cause here's the thing: Most people when they try to sell you on Mage are lying. Mage is NOT a game about realizing the rules of the universe are bullshit and you can do whatever you want. That's what the Marauders are about and they're considered the bad guys of the setting.

Mage instead is a game about people who were so deluded and psychotic that they became convinced that the world operates under a different set of rules...and their personal reality bent to their wishes.

Remember the Time Cube guy? He was a mage. The "CIA Niggers" guy with his own TempleOS platform? Yeah he was a mage too. A lot of Pentecostal pastors with their faith healing, speaking in tongues, snake holding, and other 'miracles' would also be Mages.

You would, and should be, terrified of mages. They are a collection of the most schizophrenic, narcissistic people imaginable because they literally imagine that the world revolves around their personal beliefs and reality bends to make it true.

>>98813956
>>98813960
i think the funniest "bossfight" is in the silent strider scenario: you have to kill grandma(w) and acsended vampire titan god Set (and the corrupted bat totem but that's the least of your problems) all of which are said to kill everyone in miles around them when they fight and who are not given stats at all and the ST is just told to make it epic regardless of if they garou win or not

but how do you decide who wins if nothing involved has any quantifiable quality at all?

>>98813961
It's more like "Humanity Fuck No". EVERYONE is special and powerful...except humans.

>>98813963
Sounds it would pretty frustrating being the unc who's forced to learn Correspondence magic through the lens of memes and brainrot lol.

How would you want clan books to be structured in V6?
>each clan gets their own book, 13 in total. Probably would give lots of info on special bloodlines.
>sect based, 5 clans for Camarilla, 4 Sabbat clans, and 4 Anarch clans. Probably would give lots of info on paths.
>lineage based, so the clans of Zillah, Enoch, and Irad would be grouped together. Probably would give lots of info on disciplines.

>>98813979
Buddy, I think you have the wrong thread. Call of cthulhu is several generals down the catalog.

>>98813959
This is why Pentex and the 2nd Inquisition should be Technocracy subsidiaries.

>>98813998
Read about how people actually get awakened. It's not stuff that makes you more aware of the universe, it's generally stuff that doubles down on your delusions.

>>98814002
The SI pulling technobullshit out /would/ be a lot more tolerable with explicit Technocracy backing I suppose.

i know i might be the only guy to care about this but dtf makes several times a reference to a 1971 book called A Dictionary of Angels as a great source for celestial names but the book isn't in print at all right now (well amazon claims they would print it for me for 1.211 euro....)
but it's on here in the internet archive

https://ia800100.us.archive.org/13/items/ADictionaryOfAngels/A%20Dictionary%20of%20Angels.pdf

if anyone else needs it

>>98814004
Ever since goatman made the game alot closer to real life occultism, gaining arete has been ontologically good, since the very process of seeking requires gaining wisdom and a greater appreciation for your place in existence. it is directly stated that you have to overcome your human vices of apathy, complacency and most importantly, hubris in order to pass seekings in the first place.

>>98814016
And yet all of the mages are people who are deluded into thinking, ironically, the wrong things. They think they have their powers because of technology, or God, or pagan witchcraft, or some occult mysticism. The Mages ultimately are people who just set aside one set of delusions for another.

>>98814011
I think you did a good thing there, anon. Bravo.

>>98814022
You wouldn't be able to get to arete 3 since it requires discarding instruments in the first place, for non technomancers atleast.

>>98813996
>sect based, 5 clans for Camarilla, 4 Sabbat clans, and 4 Anarch clans. Probably would give lots of info on paths.
Who do you place in the Sabbat? Are Lasombra back or are they still Cam? I kinda assume Cam 5 are basic Cam 7 minus Brujah and Gangrel. Where are Assamites then? Anarch? Sabbat? Why? Are we keeping the Salubri as a clan? Wouldn't that make it 14?

>>98814022
It's fun how you blame the system for your inability to accept a setting's premise.

>>98814022
They're all right, though, within their own worldview
Arete lets you move away from that restriction, instead bending reality with your will directly, its sorcerers and mages with low Arete who bind themselves to their delusions.
Human beings in WoD are no different, mind you, they also change reality without thinking properly, and there are nearly 8 billion of them.

>>98813996
i think i would prefer a lower number of books and it's not like we didn't had that previously like the high and low clan ones (2 for all clans) or Libellus Sanguinis (4 for all clans) not because i don't want books but because i modern production is so slow i don't want to know how slow it would be if you'd try to do 13 books as a side thing

like v5 only released 5 books in 2025 and one of them was a prob book

and i think i would prefer it to be sect books. but i also doubt that white wolf is going to put out a new camarilla book anytimes soon

>>98814026
And yet all of the Traditions and Technocracy are built around Instruments. It's the whole deal. And even the Archmages end up finding themselves bound by rules that detach them from humanity.

This is why ultimately Mages as a splat come off so weird. Your starting point already detaches you from much of humanity and as you get more powerful you interact with it less and less. Much like the non-Vampire/Hunter splats it's sort of off in its own little world, ironically the whole 'masquerade' aspect doesn't end up mattering too much.

>>98814031
What do think the setting's premise is then?

>>98814041
is this a troll post? the factions are built around paradigms which inform instruments, considering that anything counts as one including pretending to be a psychic. and the archmages had pretty normal contact with the tenant ordinary human beings in horizon atleast until the avatar storms.

>>98814044
Exactly. These paradigms are as artificial a construct as consensus reality itself. It's why Mages come off as so hypocritical, they reject the Marauders but the Marauders are, ultimately, the goal.

>>98814049
Have you read like any of the books at all? They don't necessarily reject mauraders other than the fact that mauraders tend to eject all their paradox at any nearby mages, and well kill other people unintentionally.

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Do you think we're going back to the Camarilla vs Sabbat (vs Anarch) plot in V6?

>>98814051
And this is ultimately why the Technocracy ends up coming across as so sympathetic. You still get to have innovation and technology, they just make sure that your entire city doesn't suddenly become cotton candy and you're not turned into gummy-bear people because some marauder with a childish fantasy liked it.

>>98814059
>You still get to have innovation
Only because they retconned out parts like them trying to eliminate people's ability to dream at all.

Okay why would someone put effort into using chatgpt to spam this general

>>98814064
To be fair on that, the whole part about innovation did age a bit poorly. It's kind of funny how things that would hit you with paradox in the old books would be kind of normal today

>>98814064
Which was always stupid since Sleepers are able to innovate perfectly fine within the consensus reality they live in and, most importantly, consensus reality is ever-changing regardless of what the Technocracy or Traditions try to do. If every mage on Earth disappeared you'd still have humans innovating and consensus reality changing.

>>98814070
Well it's like the other anon said, the Technocracy was written with the "End of History" in mind. But then it turns out that the end of history was bullshit and we're always evolving, and the guys trying to alter the way things are are reactionaries that the very much left-wing writers of Mage aren't exactly sympathetic to. After all a good chunk of Trump's supporters would be Traditions Mages.

>>98814058
We need to get the Sabbat to kill the Anarchs

>>98814027
How I'd do it
>Sabbat
With Lasombra, and Tzimisce you'd need to steal two. Necormancers like Hecata would make sense. Malks can be shoved anywhere, and Ravnos move around enough it would make sense they avoid stagnation in a single Prince's domain.
>Anarch
there are already Brujah, Gangrel, and Ministry. You'd only need to steal one. Malkavians are a wildcard. Nosferatu are looked down on, they could fit. Again, Ravnos could be against Camarilla structure.

>Mages are stupid for relying on tools and paradigms, as it's all fake and gay in the first place
>This is why Marauders are the true mages because they are ruled by their delusional reality and can't control it consciously

>>98814040
>no v6 Camarilla clan book
What, you want new players to go get the last editions book that won't be helpful or accurate anymore?

>>98814065
You see that OP question? Smooth brain central.

>>98814082
It's less that they're stupid and more that Mages don't have any more answers than anyone else. Mages aren't 'the golden path' or anything for humanity, they're just another guy with a competing worldview. I myself would lean more towards trusting God and the Messengers personally and they seem fairly anti-Mage.

>>98814083
just making a reference to the whole camarilla book debacle that killed the last white wolf

they probably make a sect book in some form like they did with courts of the damned or whatever the latest v5 books was called, but i heavily doubt we will get a book called camarilla or guide to the camarilla again anytime soon

would prefer to be wrong but i just don't see it

>>98814090
>I'd rather trust God and the Messengers
>Here, blow yourself up to kill this group of zombies
No, I think not.

>>98814058
too early to say. we only that the sabbat exists as a player option again and the the anarchs will be forced to do some introspective and i think that's it so far

>>98814090
sorry to tell you anon, but the angels don't quite know what's going on either

>>98814101
>and the the anarchs will be forced to do some introspective
Some introspection because they're apparently winning for a change which means they need to ask the all important question. Now what?

>>98814100
Honestly, why not? Look at the World of Darkness and tell me God intends for humans to feel like Earth is safe and comfortable. We are at the bottom of the food chain for every fucking splat and the one saving grace in all this is that the apocalypse is coming.

>>98814113
>We are at the bottom of the food chain for every fucking splat
Except for the Jinn since apparently God gave Solomon a helping hand in rewriting the rules to fuck those guys specifically.

>>98811261

>>98814119
Fair. But still, it's funny cause even Mage ends up agreeing with this. The best case scenario for mage is that the apocalypse happens, and everyone dies and then ascends. The Earth existing is literally the primary thing stopping us from experiencing ascension.

>>98814105
>Now what?
Convention of Thorns 2.0 to end the Third Anarch Revolt. Most Anarch decide they need to rejoin Camarilla to fix it from the inside or some other bullshit. Some are unhappy about that and remain a small and mostly insignificant minority, some are very unhappy about it and go to the Sabbat.

It returns to the pre-V5 status quo but adds some layers for possible drama. Some feel betrayed, some begrudgingly accept, some are happy to be in a bigger sect that provides more safety and structure. Many old Cams and old Sabbat don't trust ex-Anarch, but most are willing to use them.

>>98814127
>humanity ascends
>vampires no longer have their main food source
>garou lose most of their kinfolk, and fight over mating rights over the last few who happen to know gifts/rites thus making them ineligible for ascension
why are mages such stacys

>>98814134
That would be hilariously retarded. Especially on the heels of 5e going
>we're an exclusive club
instead of the previous status quo where you were a member unless you could successfully tell them to fuck off.

>>98814135
Oh no not the other splats what will we ever do if they all died out...

...throw a party?

>>98814100
I don't recall any Imbued blowing themselves up (but I never read the one for desert people, so I dunno), but that might be a better choice. If you go hardcore with the Messengers they hollow you out and make you a puppet.

It's totally based that Wendel Delburton shot Lucifer but it was just a meat suit at that point.

>>98814141
>That would be hilariously retarded.
That's what makes VtM fun for me. Like the constant Black Hand changes. It's a secret sect within Sabbat. It's a secret sect within the secret sect. Actually it's within all sects. Actually it's been purged. Actually it's back. So which one is real? Yes. Don't overthink it, your ST will pick one version that he likes the most and go with it.

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Which garou tribe would work best as a biker gang ?

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>Everything was better for the Werewolves in the past, but then they let humans grow too much and that ruined everything
>Everything was better for the Mages in the past, but then they let consensus reality control them too much and that ruined everything
>Everything was great for Mummies in the past, but then the empire fell and now everyone is senile
>Everything is great for Vampires right now, but they're actively bad for the world and don't contribute anything to humanity's existence like Mages and Werewolves do so fuck them

>>98814183
silent striders if they travel on the bikes
get fenrir if they have a territory

>>98814183
Bone Gnawers
Red Talons but they aren't ready for that

>>98814188
nah vampires also had it better in the past the best times for vampires been either the dark ages or the roman empire

they also let humans grow too much, but shit has become less worse for them than it did for the other splats

>>98814188
All I'm hearing is total vampire final death

>>98814188
>a new status quo is established
>it's a time of peace and growth
>overtime corruption and greed build up and things get evil and stagnant
>things get chaotic as the old status quo is slowly town down by up and coming ways
>a new status quo is established
This is the path of human society for 10,000 years and right now we're in between the third and fourth step. It makes sense all the old people are fantasizing about the past when things worked and the youths are fantasizing about the future when things could work again.

>>98814199
>nah vampires also had it better in the past
How so? Sure they don't control as much as the Technocracy does, but unlike the Technocracy they're not slowly decaying from consensus reality, vampires are as powerful as they've ever been.

Yeah, vampires make life miserable for other vampires but I mean, c'mon, that doesn't count.

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>>98814209
>and the youths are fantasizing about the future when things could work again.
This is the weird part though. You'd think White Wolf would be part of 'the youth' in that equation, given their more progressive tendencies, but they're the guys yearning for the past.

>>98814219
It's both ways, really.
>Things worked a little better in the past, so we should go back (Traditionalism)
>But the past brought about our current future, we should go forward (Progressivism)
The oldest tale known to man begins with "Those old days when bread was warm and the people were kind" or something like that, everyone dreams of living in a different time.

The devil's in the details, and a huge chunk of the setting is arguing over those details whilst the cycle continues anyway.

>>98814219
Honestly a lot of their anti-modernity stuff seems tied into that general feeling that we're all gonna go barreling off if we don't change course fast that usually pops up whenever we get another update about climate change.

>>98814246
Which is especially weird because if the Technocracy just stopped telling people about climate change it would just stop existing.

>>98814219
WoD started, like, 30 years ago. The original crew are all old and part of the generation that can remember the old times.

>>98814211
they used to rule openly as gods in early rome and could still pull off the greco roman god thing semi convincingly they also already had the prototype of the camarilla inner circle with the eternal senate and just ... pretty much lacked rivals unlike in cofd they weren't any roman hunter orgs and the proto org of the order of hermes the cult of mercury is laughably weak (they are the shittiest sorcerers in the book) and the only real mage groups been too far away and unorganized to do anything about them

the only really dangerous other supernatural that been around been the earthbound but the two seemingly just didn't clash as they both invested into the roman empire

>>98814188
We shape reality with our thoughts, I blame normies for ruining it with their negativity. How do we make them reach more fun consensus?

>>98814248
>getting rid of nearly 200 years of mounting paradox backlash with a quick global "forget this thing" spell

>>98814252
Yeah but I mean lets be honest, the Vampires never think about hunters, they're a non-factor other than for the lowest peons.

Now, the Technocracy and what not, they're a problem sure, but they're dying. If anything, the Vampires are on the rise. And sure they have the masquerade but who cares? The masquerade isn't to protect the Vampires, it's the protect the cattle.

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>>98814254
I mean, when you get down to it, wouldn't most people on 4chan be mages? We're basically the Mercurial Elite from the Traditions

>>98814299
>tfw the Tradition book on the Order of Hermes was so vague with HOW THE HERMETICS DO MAGIC that I've resorted to reading through hundreds of years old magic books dating back to as early as the 13th century just to understand what the Hermetic Practice and Paradigm even is and THEN interpreting it through WoD's sphere and Arete system
>I'm on page 8 (+2 pages of appendices) so far and I'm not even on Theurgia yet, I'm still on Goetia

>>98814299
Mages need a willpower of at least 5 while most anons can barely muster up the energy for IRL socialising.

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>>98814309
I mean, honestly, what is this, if not straight up how a Mage awakens?

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>>98814310
Just because something isn't worth doing, doesn't mean you have low willpower. If anything, you have higher willpower for not trying to fit in with normies.

Also, if y'all wanna become mages IRL:
>>>>/x/43037553

>>98814326
>tfw the Hermetics, Plinics and Akashics were right about the mysteries of the universe and the nature of humanity
>Still can't build me a house or put food on my table which are inherent needs and desires of man
No, I think I shall choose to live in material ignorance, you people are retarded

>>98814326
Yikes.

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>>98814340
>He's still in the phase where he needs food and shelter
NGMI

>>98814058
V6 writers basically said the Anarchs "won" and have to come to terms with that, and that the Sabbat is making a comeback. Either the Cammies manage to buy Anarchs left and right everywhere RIGHT NOW, or they're in trouble.

>>98814351
Also the elders are coming back after their decade long moshpit but they all seem like they've been mindfucked in some fashion.

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If you do end up getting really into the occult and mysticism after playing Mage are you doing what the authors intended or have you just completely lost your fucking mind?

...asking for a friend.

>>98814365
I'm on the same path as you and I'm close to losing my mind
Do not become goatboy, just roll Arete whilst manifesting pocket sand from your luxury gucchi bag

>>98814058
Damn, the girl on Sabbat cover is baddie. Who is she?

>>98814411
just random toreador anti

>>98814365
How do you feel about that guy who played so much Crusader Kings 2 he became Mormon?

>>98814418
Wtf lol

>>98814418
>>98814370
I think what makes Mage so fascinating is that it takes a feeling that many people have had and validates it. That a lot of modern science is, let’s be honest, complete horseshit. There is a severe reproducibility crisis in science, and science itself has become weaponized because it’s become such a strong paradigm that people now try to use “it’s the science” as an argument finisher, and a reason to stop thinking.

What mage affirms though is that there are many paradigms IRL that you can live by which are equally valid. “The Science” says to go see a psychotherapist, but maybe your church pastor is better for you. “The Science” relies on psychology and pharmacy, altering your mental state with drugs and brain exercises, but meditation and occultism can be equally valid ways of handling it. “The Science” tells us to believe in a purely rationalistic universe, but those of us who have bore witness to miracles can attest that not everything is so set in stone.

>>98814460
*loud incorrect buzzer noise*

>>98813763
>Sure but there's a reason even the hunter orgs that do exist don't try to break the masquerade
Openly declaring war on all vampires isn't a good idea when you don't have the numbers or the means to fight a shitload of them at once. Even thr bigger groups have low numbers (there's only 1000 inquisitors around the world). If anything, revealing thr truth should be a M.A.D kind of move.

>>98813763
No, it's because they'd go to jail for murdering people. Many hunters try to expose the supernatural and they are put in mental hospitals or jail.

>>98813831
>That too, although Werewolves would probably win a war against humans alone
Except humanity won't be alone. Pentex is going to be selling it's "solutions" to every country across the globe. Mass bane infestation, fomors around every corner. The weaver would be forced to vo on the offensive and the world becomes a massive battlefield.

>>98814512
Basically, anybody going for total humanity death just gets dogpiled by everybody else who likes having humans around.