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Well, there is a thread here.

THEY THEM

I feel sad that no matter what, unless Toby is a madman, the Vessel won't be as cool as Veth.

>>77580805
I mean, yeah. Veth is just an OC that was nicely woven into the general's interpretation of the game. (Not to hate on her, of course. I love that grey thing)
The only thing that is irrefutably true about the vessel so far is that it probably existed at some point. It'd be like hoping chapter 5 or 6's boss is cool, if that makes sense.

>>77581108
I'm still holding out hope the Vessel somehow is Chara so I can get a ton of Chara art.

>>77581130
How would that make sense lore wise? That's not what Chara was in UT.

>>77581861
I see Chara as UT's version of the Soul but also as an allegory for the Vessel. Hell we literally create the Vessel in the exact same sort of way we name the First Fallen Human. And refer to it as "ANOTHER HIM"

>>77581130
That would fucking suck

>>77580664
NIGGER

>>77582387
I wish I could post that in every UT server

>>77582636
>I'm not drying your clothes for you hon. Do it yourself.

Man didn’t realize how fast last thread seemed to go by, thought we fell off the board

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>>77584501
we should argue about gender politics slightly more often

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>>77584501
During August in general I noticed the thread being a bit faster. I think now that Chapter 3&4 are well behind us we're settling back into our older groove as far as discussions go.

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As much as the fandom can be aids, I really respect Toby in how he handles "politics" in his writing. As much as people call UT/DR "woke" games anything that could be considered woke in these games are really matter-of-fact and not preached to you.
In other IPs I oftentimes get a smug vibe from the creators even though they're really not bringing anything new to the table. A "guess what gamers, these girls are GAY and there's nothing you can do about it!" vibe. Though even with something more controversial like they/thems, Toby's gotten me to at least acknowledge it more than literally any other media I've consumed. It's ironic since parts of his fandom secretly HATE this about him. You'll see the seething here or there about wanting Toby to put his foot down and force the game to remind the player of Kris's pronouns or make a ludicrous display of Suselle being super-duper canon and Kris being asexual to spite the "straight" ships.

Thank God the fandom isn't in charge of writing Deltarune.

>>77584863
yeah, honestly I feel it in the same vein as Disco Elysium, where I knew the fans and the politics of the creators and that turned me off from the game despite everyone even my most anti-commie friend saying it's good. same thing kept from playing UT until like 2016-17. and both games turned out to be way better and less preachy than the fans or the impressions they give off would have me think

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>>77580664
i still would kris' they/themussy

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>>77586425
>and both games turned out to be way better and less preachy than the fans or the impressions they give off would have me think
Yeah. I couldn't quite finish DE since it wasn't for me, and I'm currently enjoying a Dragon's Dogma run at the moment instead, but Disco Elysium definitely has more political nuance to it than its fans would suggest.

Toby's situation is a little messed up at times since he really isn't "woke" by any stretch. When you disseminate the rare times he talks about stuff like this, he really only seems interested in adding gay characters here or there that aren't full-blown stereotypes. Like, his political takes are extremely 2000s. You're not going to see him doing trans issues anytime soon (people try to make the ghosts trans-related, but it's a stretch IMO), and even something more "modern" like non-binary pronouns he avoids talking about it. All we know is that Kris uses they/them ingame. That's it.
Toby's a pretty sincere creator. He has a story and he just wants to tell it. I'm sure he's wise enough to block it out, but it must be annoying having to deal with the fandom's autism at times.

Euro susbros, how will we live post surveillence Europe in about 2 weeks?

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>>77584863
>>77587043
I tend to agree, any "political" aspect people identify has to be identified based off of the degree of otherness which it is assigned. To abstract it and make it singular and a forwards-facing part of the character is itself a form of othering. But most Toby characters who are, in traditionalist social circles, "otherized", just have their traits as integrated parts of their personality as most people tend to do. Mettaton is a very genderfluid performer if not outright a trans allegory by virtue of their David Bowie coding, but it's just a matter-of-fact part of their design which isn't highlighted because you really don't need it to be directly pointed to in order to understand "oh damn bitch mettaton is slaying." Likewise a they/them Kris is just a general component of their little gremlin identity which is taken as matter-of-fact rather than exceptional in any way. Undyne as a lesbian pounding that lizard pussy is pretty understated, if anything the tropes they represent get more of a front-stage than the nature or their relationship as being gay.

It's a much healthier way to ground these ideas as being just ways which certain people decide to live their lives which doesn't really need highlighting. A lot of stuff which tries to lionize more "progressive" politics tends to be more otherizing than it is normalizing because of the degree to which they put those social issues on a pedestal, as though those issues cannot exist with a normal life. But it's really good marketing material if you want to advertise to "the gays." Meanwhile a lot of the best gay, nonbinary, etc. characters tend to be understated (Veronica my beloved) or have it as a deeper narrative arc of their personal story rather than like, a badge of honor (Signalis my beloved).

>>77587043
>You're not going to see him doing trans issues anytime soon
Well, you say that but there's the lion in Undertale that gets Mettaton's dress and talks about how right it feels.
That same lion returns in Deltarune as a full on woman.

>>77587111
What are they planning again?

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>>77587319
While I do think Toby's handling of the more contentious content is well-meaning and respectable, I do get the sense that taking some of these at face value may also be setups. We're kinda already seeing that with how Suselle is being fumbled and is likely set up to fail, if Toby's reading what he's actually writing at least. To the point where it's got me wondering if Kris's pronoun deal is, too, a misdirect. There's been increasing points where our gender ambiguous protagonist is not looking so ambiguous.

It may be easy to take these as some concoction of "not getting with the times" and wishful thinking, and therefore dismiss them, but to play with these expectations is on-brand unusual. After all, if Toby himself never made any promises as to the actual deal of any of these characters, we only have ourselves to blame if they don't turn out quite to our precognitions, and I think that goes for everyone.

Frankly, I've just about had enough of the fandom's bickering on these issues, to see them humbled on them while not compromising the story or its characters (in fact, enhancing it depending on how well it thematically aligns) would make trudging through this game being surrounded by the community that it has worth the trouble. Not that I expect it to happen, but still.

>>77587820
nta but:
>Built-in backdoors in every digital device so authorities can bypass password protection and possibly even data encryption
>ID-based age verification; same story as everywhere else
>Allow EU authorities *full legal access* to all of your private conversations regardless of service

>>77587956
They're fucking setting us up for someone to hack them and get Europe as a whole's bank accounts I swear to fuck

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>>77587870
Idk, Toby can just write a lesbian relationship that doesn't pan out. It's just like how not all relationships in general don't pan out, and that is fine. You need terminal doo-doo brain fried by 24/7 internet memes to think that such a plot point is inherently a deeply political statement rather than an aspect of the narrative and an arc of the storytelling, especially with Noelle's character traits of nostalgic longing, terminal levels of social isolation, and general lack of social aptitude and understanding / establishing social boundaries.

>>77587991
Knowing how incompetent they are if this actually get forced the first leaks will happen in less than a day

>>77587956
The EU is a scam to let the usual unelected cunts hold more power

>>77588081
One of two things will happen:

A. They realise they can't monitor everyone and cancel it.
B. They realise that crime skyrockets when young people get bored (no one is online anymore)

>>77587991
Well sure, that's going to happen a whole lot
Worse than this though, I'm certain this will be used to prevent certain opinions from being voiced. I know "orwellian" is overused, but with how things are looking lately I think most of the developed world is headed towards UK-style wrongthink laws.
As much as I used to laugh at /pol/tard schizos, I can't ignore that internet anonimity dies just around the time the Epstien files fiasco is going on and more and more videos of Israeli war crimes are circulating. The final nail in the coffin to this was when they went after fucking Wikipedia.
>>77588175
It's genuinely heartbreaking to see the current state of the EU. I genuinely believe in the dream of the union but none of the people in charge have any interest in serving Europe or the interests of its people.
>>77588264
>They realise they can't monitor everyone and cancel it
That's what modern "AI" algorithms are for. They're perfect at pattern recognition and generally sifting through tons of data.
>They realise that crime skyrockets when young people get bored
Crime has already skyrocketed due to browns.

>>77588264
Ever heard of a politician admitting they were wrong? Did you know that German MEP Patrick Breyer asked the EU to release the names of the people who were a part of the so called High Level Group that wrote this proposal, they replied with a list with all names censored. Politicians usually love to put their face next to everything expect this time they know how awful this new shit really is.

>>77588427
So the only option would be the Reznov special:

Secure the Keys! Ascend from Darkness!

Go absolutely riot

>>77588488
Whatever you call it politicians have to pay for their crimes. They've been treating us like shit cause they know they can get away with it.

>>77589096
>GET DUNKED ON

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>>77587465
Well, if so, then it is what it is, and anyone trying to press Toby on what he meant by it will likely get the same "no comment" he usually does.
That sort of behaviour from Toby is what I find most charming about him. I'm not like a vampire to garlic when it comes to these topics, but the preaching can get a bit old and they're oftentimes just pointless distractions.

From a certain perspective, Deltarune is just as woke as Sims 1. The world and its characters kind of just exist as they are without heavy commentary about IRL most of the time.

>>77589169
my god they're so cute

>>77589366
Exactly. Kinda like what that other Anon brought up earlier: Toby just kinda does this and doesn't even think about it, they're just characters in his worlds, they're just people. Genuinely the best way to do it.

That being said I do wonder if Suselle is really being set up for failure or if tricky Tony really just can't help himself and likes his yuri shipping. I feel a little bad for thinking that, because Noelle is a sweet girl, and Susie is the best. I want to see a happy outcome for everyone, it's just jesus tapdancing christ there is no fucking chemistry between those two.

>>77587870
>>77588046
Ships fail to take off sometimes, maybe the LGBT+ community will finally get more representation in that department
>>77587991
>>77588081
>>77588344
Look on the bright side, now everyone who wants to be a European can be one without having to set foot in in Europe

is it bad if i hope for a little bit of krusie angst and drama in chapter 5

>>77589525
every good love story has some friction at some point

>>77589525
Not bad at all.
I think we've all been seeing the writing on the wall lately.

>>77589366
Isn't that pretty much the end goal of all of this? To just be portrayed as existing normally in the world instead of being made into either a rallying cry or the subject of condemnation?
I mean I get it - even when it often comes across as heavy handed and preachy, I understand why people have to make noise to stand up for themselves. So I can appreciate a world that's been created where people are allowed to just be whatever because it doesn't really matter or affect anyone else.

>>77589525
Sweetness without substance makes candyfloss. A bit of toughness will only give us more to chew on

>>77589096
>>77589169
She's balling

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>>77589694
>

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>>77589741

Susgryn likes it when apple-man gives her medals. They're shiny! And taste good!

>>77589779
Reminds me of LowTierGod's legendary thesis on the value of life

>>77589824
And now all I can think of is Commissar Kris being a standard human who was inexplicably raised by a community of Sanctioned beastman mutants.

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>>77590019
>Commissar Kris

Ah hello Comrade!

>>77590019
Commissars only come from the Schola Progenium though, which only takes orphans iirc...
uh oh.
Uh Oh.
UH OH.
Jokes aside I think Kris being just an orphan would make more sense. Fuck it, maybe make him a disgraced commissar for being too nice to any abhumans (monsters) put under his command.

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>>77588046
What I mean is that there would likely be no nefarious reason for Toby to engage in such subversion, it's just how these characters and the plot would naturally progress. To which, yeah, I agree: I think Toby is teasing a lesbian relationship with various hints and pitfalls sprinkled in where it's set to be dead on arrival or very early on that the more careful readers will catch, and the more understanding readers will meet the game on its terms and see that this isn't supposed to be an attack on anyone. I think that major purpose of this is to explore Noelle's character further, by looking at how much of these feelings she's currently has for Susie are actually a redirection of what she has felt and seemingly still feels for Kris. The fact that Susie and Noelle are both girls are incidental to this development.

To play this gay relationship completely straight, so to speak, is to completely abandon exploring character points such as this for cheap brownie points. I think Toby's above that, preferring to craft an organic story that just so happens to have its characters be and act in particular ways, but not letting that limit what he can write for them. Most everyone else just doesn't have the spine to demonstrate flaws for characters in similar situations, being preoccupied with the optics of it all.

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Susie wouldn't be an Ogryn. She'd be a Scaly. Perhaps an evolved one? Slightly less devolved? Who knows. But there's a greater than zero chance that in the world of 40k there's a eggplant looking scaly that refers to itself as "Susie".

>>77590349
Orcs would love Darkners. They would make wild Dark Worlds.

>>77589525
Investment in a fictional relationship that doesn't have any angst or drama in it pretty pathetic honestly, that's just pure wish-fulfillment fantasy at that point. Why are you interested in these two characters who do not exist being in a relationship if you don't want to see them struggle and overcome? You know, like a story? Just cuz they're cute together? Weak. Those with real taste want danger and drama, don't worry anon.

>>77590569
If you don't think about it too hard, the Warp is just a very spicy Darkworld.

>>77590569
>"Oi lizzen up, boyz! One'v our shipz got propa froyed up by dat broight sta' up dere, yea? So I'ze makin' a choppa dat'll kill it! Now I noes wot you'ze sayin', 'ya kan't kill a sta' wit just yaseff, it'll roast ya wit all dat loight!'"
>"Well, lern dis, ya blok'eadz! Dis choppa... chopz LOIGHT!! Iz all blak, see? An' blak is when der'z no loight! An' tuf, yea. I'm gonna stab the loight, 'til izz dark... darka' den dark..."
>"N'DEN ITZ SHOOTIN' STABBIN' RUKKUS TIME WIT DAT STINKIN' STA'!!!!!"

>>77592027
I had to read that soooo slowly.

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We got a fresh Soos from Jelly, boys. Also confirmation on Veth being an Artificer if they were to play D&D

>>77593981
oh hell yeah, love the toothy sus

>>77595001
>Frylock prefers Suselle and starts trying to explain to Meatward why he's wrong.
>Shake pretends to like Berdsie just to fuck with both of them, he hasn't actually played the game.

>>77595525
Carl is a Kriselle chad.

>>77595896
>Carl ranting about how the fryman is a fucking moron for thinking Noelle actually likes Susie and not Kris.
>Frylock tries to bring up Snowgrave.
>"Did I say moron? Sorry I meant retarded. You're a retard, fryman."

>>77596008
Carl is only that mean to Shake and Frylock is too smart to like Suselle. Frylock likes Krusie like Meatwad and Carl just think they’re gay for playing a game that isn’t Guitar Hero or a shooter.

>>77587043
>Disco Elysium definitely has more political nuance to it than its fans would suggest.
It does, the political aspect of it is more there to reflect the various character's outlook on life and how they deal with situation
Each one can give you an idea of how each person you ask about their personal politics came to be who they are

NO DYING TILL I SAY SO

>>77597955
No crying until the end.

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3 hours until work and I've been unable to sleep again, damnit

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Damn, cold is kicking my ass. Guess it's time for a slightly later than normal art dump.

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>>77598424

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>>77598430

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>>77598439

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>>77598449

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>>77598454
and that'll do it for now

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>>77598461
actually... one more

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Is there one piece of Veth art that stands out to you over all else? One that, when you think of her, is pictured as the best expression of who/what she is? I'm curious to see what people's choices are.

>>77598483
susie likes em unstable

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>>77598799
just one is tough

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>>77598799
>>77598833
like this one always struck me, and not even in a lewd way

>>77598799
>>77598838
ah ye beat me to it

when she is stressed and upset, she likes to go to water. it reminds her of when she was created and loved by her creator.

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>>77598846
That's cute. I also love the idea of Gaster being a loving father.

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>>77598799
This one cause it's been my phone wallpaper for at least a good year

>>77598925
veth the type of girl to get mad at her father, call him names, slam the door hard
then text him crying to make sure he doesn't hate her 5 mins later

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>>77598799
this one has an energy and sexiness to it that draws me back every time

>>77598994
and I feel like Gaster would take it in stride.
I'm just a sucker for a more compassionate weird wacky wingdings man.

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love veth

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>>77593981
Actually it's almost a month old >>76923103

>>77600121
Damn, really? He just uploaded it on his Tumblr.
I wish I wasn't so fucking broke, I'd commission this man.

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Deltarune will never reach this peak

>>77600690
He does often post on Tumblr art that we first had here.
I know what you feel expect I'm not broke I just don't know what I'd actually commission from him.

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>>77600942
The man draws really good armor. Could work with that. I know that's what I'd do

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>>77600959
You know maybe Veth meeting Jelly's old designs for the Vessel could make for some cool art. I'll think about some more.

>>77601005
WHO ARE YOU?
I'M YOU, BUT THTRONGER!!

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>>77598799
I love how villainous she is in this one.

>>77602768
Suzy real?

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>>77598799
As much as Veth in the prom dress (>>77602637) reduces me to a caveman, I think my favorite is picrel. I generally like the ones where she's just being herself; there are like 3-4 other pictures like this, but she looks cute here and it also has Crusher (cool)

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Uh oh

>>77604368
Susie arrives with a stick of butter only to eat the entire and just pull the wall with Kris out.

>>77604368
Rimjob

>>77604368
Prostate annihilation via tongue.

>>77605761
What if the apple is temptation? Tricmy tobias m fox is christian of some sort.
What extra knowledge could Susie gain from Kris that would have them fall down?

>>77590329
>I think that major purpose of this is to explore Noelle's character further, by looking at how much of these feelings she's currently has for Susie are actually a redirection of what she has felt and seemingly still feels for Kris. The fact that Susie and Noelle are both girls are incidental to this development.
I, an Undertale/Deltarune (UT/DR, or TURD), cannot read
Therefore I will interpret this as Kris being trans

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>>77606380
He is just tasty

>>77606380
Isn't it obvious? Finding out that "Kris" (as Susie knows him) isn't really Kris
similar to the whole Madoka Magica soul gem thing, she'll lose trust/hope in Kris and possibly herself

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thoughts on this green i found while dicking around in the archives?

>>77606380
The Apple is Temptation, and us (Satan) mimicking the Angel (Kris) will lead Eve (Susie) to the Garden of Eden (Darker World/Void).to speak with the Tree of Knowledge (The Man behind the Tree/Gaster)

>>77607060
2 Corinthians 11:14

"For even Satan masquerades as an Angel of Light."

Hello Chara.

>>77607049
Chapter 1 /sus/ had a lot of great discussions and a lot of absolute misery and I'll just leave it at that.

>>77607091
Wtf is your chara fascination. So many posts in the last few threads about him. And I never got the interest in the first place from UT , “oooh edgy child ooooh so serious” I fucking hate chara, the way some anons get so irrationally butthurt about asriel.l, I (probably irrationally too) hate Chara

>>77607902
Not even the edgy child thing it's just the fact of "There's definitely something more" with them.

They were the Angel of Prophecy in UT so they are probably going to be important again at some point, especially with the Angel talk in Deltarune.

It's crazy what one scene and one insanely correct Narrator theory can do as stock for a character.

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>>77589433
>That being said I do wonder if Suselle is really being set up for failure or if tricky Tony really just can't help himself and likes his yuri shipping
Imo, anything with Noelle kind of feels like it's being setup for a tragedy. She's an important character but also the odd one out by not being a permanent mainstay with the gang, so if something bad happens to her it wouldn't shake up the team dynamic.

I think it's likely at this point that Toby will subvert some aspects of Suselle. We already see it in progress in Chapter 4 where Susie explicitly tries to make sure Noelle and Kris didn't have a "thing" going on, or at least just wants to pick her brain on what riding a Ferris wheel means to Noelle, but the doe couldn't give an answer (perhaps) in fear of betraying her mixed feelings on Kris. That's a big "she's not ready yet" red flag to me.
That being said, if Suselle fails I think it'll mostly be something more plot-related than Noelle being outright punished for not being 100% honest with herself. As the plot progresses there's a good chance there won't be time for romantic moments between them to confirm the ship, and it'll likely end open by the last chapter.

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Do you struggle with your brain broadcasting embarrassing moments of your life at random? Here's a little trick. The next time it happens, hijack it and turn it into something really absurd.

I imagined how cringe memory of mine suddenly turns into incredible gassy ai slop brainrot, and it worked.

>>77581130
Toby is never going to put Chara or Frisk in deltarune because Kris is Chara and Frisk.