I am going to Lahore. Probably going to spend 4-5 days there, with the possibility of a day trip or two to some nearby places (eg. Multan, Khewra salt mines). Any recommendations? I'm looking to eat some good food, visit architecturally/historically interesting places, possibly see some qawwali, and generally get a sense of the place.
>>2673524That's cool. Go see the changing of the palace guard, ride the eye, walk along the Thames, etc....Have fun!
Get a local guide, it won't be expensive. The daily Wagah border closing ceremony is a must-see.
>>2673524Lahore is really cool, highly underrated IMO. The whole old walled city is worth spending time in, and the fort and the two best mosques are all architectural marvels. Not as old (beginning of 19th c) but also beautiful and significant is the Gurdwara (Sikh temple), which features the tomb of the fourth guru and more Sikhs than you might expect in Pakistan, although obviously many fewer than there were before Partition. Quite a bit of nice colonial architecture left, too—the high court complex is very handsome.Multan is definitely worth visiting, but it’s not a very realistic day trip—it’s more than 300km away, and it will take you at least four hours to get there. Could technically be done in a day, sure, but it’s more comfortable as at least an overnight. Another interesting city you can’t very easily get to and from in a single day would be Rawalpindi, adjacent to (modern, planned, boring, not worth visiting unless you want to see an extremely large Saudi-built mosque) Islamabad. It’s probably close to five hours from Lahore.
>>2673524I spent about six months in Pakistan in 2021. I was working remotely at the time, and treated Lahore as a sort of home base. I'd like to list off some recommendations, but I admittedly spent a lot of my free time getting shitfaced--so I can probably give some tips, but you might need to jog my memory. >visit architecturally/historically interesting placesI think most of the city's historically interesting architecture is concentrated in and around the Walled City. You can give a small bribe to the caretakers of Wazir Khan Mosque to climb onto the roof and get a nice view of the old city. Not sure about Multan, but the Khewra salt mines make a decent-enough day-trip. If you're renting a car or hiring a driver, I'd strongly recommend visiting a few other destinations on the same excursion. IIRC, the Katas Raj complex--a series of ancient Hindu temples--isn't more than an hour away. The drive there is also quite nice, as both Khewra and Katas Raj are in an arid range of high hills. >qawwali Super mainstream suggestion that you'll find on most Pakistan-oriented travel blogs, but Peeru's Cafe is well worth the visit. I can't remember which nights are qawwali nights, but it happens at least once or twice per week--they probably have a schedule listed on their page. Peeru's also has a don't-ask, don't-tell policy with respect to alcohol (unless their rules have changed since I last visited). If you want to drink, you can bring in a bottle and order mixers or snacks. Many of the people who stay until close will also be drinking, so it's a decent way to meet non-conservative Pakistanis. (again, I was a degenerate alky back then--but alhamdulilah, haven't touched that shit in nearly three years)
cont.>>2673669>The daily Wagah border closing ceremony is a must-see.Wagah is fun. I was there at a time when India still had semi-strict COVID procedures but Pakistan didn't--so the Pakistan side of the border was packed with people yelling "allahu akbar," whereas there were maybe--maybe!--a dozen people on the Indian side. ]>>2673665This anon has given some good recommendations. I will say to read on up on destinations like Rawalpindi and Multan before adding them to your itinerary. Rules may have changed, but--when I was there, anyway--foreigners needed an "NOC" (no-objection certificate) issued by a government authority to travel to these two cities, among several other destinations and regions (e.g., the entirety of Balochistan). If you make friends with Pakistani people, getting an NOC shouldn't be difficult. I'd actually highly recommend downloading CouchSurfing for Pakistan--the platform is fucking useless in most parts of the world these days (unless you're a girl), but there's a huge CS community in Pakistan. If you want to go somewhere a little off the grid, you can typically find somebody from CS to take you, provided you spend a day or two sifting through messages and asking questions. Lastly, if you're spending more than 4-5 days in Pakistan (not just Lahore), invest in some shalwar kameez (the term is used exclusively to refer to women's clothing in India, but is used for a certain style of men's clothing in Pakistan, too). Even if you're a fucking ginger, people will just assume you're a Pathan if you're wearing Pakistani clothes. I'm whiter than sour cream, and I had people trying to talk to me in Pashto all the time, kek (but I also speak Hindi-Urdu, so there's that). IIRC, there is/was another anon who was really into Pathan/Pashto shit and who's been to Pakistan (maybe Afghanistan, too) a few times. If you stick around and check the thread regularly, he might show up.
>>2673669>>2673670Anyway, anon, I'm not sure how useful any of this was--I don't think anything I said is very unique. But if you ask more specific questions, I'll probably be able to give clearer answers.
>>2673670>Rules may have changed, but--when I was there, anyway--foreigners needed an "NOC" (no-objection certificate) issued by a government authority to travel to these two cities, among several other destinations and regions (e.g., the entirety of Balochistan).Ah, right, I had forgotten about special permitting. I was actually there quite a few years before your trip, not more recently, but at the time no additional authorization was required for Pindi or Multan, just for Azad Kashmir and parts of the Northwest IIRC. Maybe Balochistan too; it’s been sketchy there for decades. My trip was actually built around a work trip based out of Islamabad, and the office there forbade foreigners from entering Balochistan. Luckily Quetta didn’t look especially interesting to me anyhow. Pindi isn’t a must-see, necessarily, anyhow, but it’s got a lot of well-preserved colonial architecture and is very lively. It’s good as a break from Islamabad or a closer, safer alternative to Peshawar. I don’t know if Swat is officially off-limits these days; it wasn’t when I visited, although I think we did have to get special permission. It’s very beautiful. But friends tell me that the area has become super jihadi and unfriendly in recent years, which is sad. And I don’t know about the contemporary security situation in Gilgit-Baltistan; as far as foreigners are concerned I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s been cut off from easy access because of issues in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, although maybe Azad Kashmir is okay nowadays. Not really relevant to OP anyhow, as it’s quite far from Lahore, but to anybody else thinking about a trip to Pakistan, the Hunza Valley is perhaps the most beautiful mountain setting I’ve ever seen (and I live in Switzerland, so I’m not a stranger to pretty mountains).
>>2674006>>2673670>at the time no additional authorization was required for Pindi or MultanSame anon, and I do have to correct myself: Rawalpindi 100% does not require an NOC. I think I'd somehow confused Rawalpindi with Bahawalpur or another city--but your use of the abbreviated "Pindi" made me remember that it's Islamabad's uglier neighbor. You definitely don't need any special permission to go there. >I don’t know if Swat is officially off-limits these days; it wasn’t when I visited, although I think we did have to get special permission.I went to Swat in 2021 and stay in Kalam for a few nights. I'd also wanted to head further up the valley, but there were still heavy snows in the passes that would've made overland travel extraordinarily difficult. So far as I recall, all I had to do for Swat was present my passport at a military checkpoint, write down my phone number, and provide an estimate of how many days I was planning to stay in the region. >And I don’t know about the contemporary security situation in Gilgit-BaltistanThe same goes for the parts of Gilgit-Baltistan that I visited (Hunza, Rakaposhi, and other adjacent areas). I flew from Islamabad to GIlgit, and believe I had to fill out some paperwork on arrival at Gilgit airport. It wasn't anything difficult, or beyond what's expected in Pakistan.
>>2674158cont. We also ended up having to drive from Gilgit to Islamabad after an intense series of storms grounded all flights (with the controller saying it seemed there wouldn't be any alternative for at least several more days). The only place that seemed problematic on that route was Chilas, which apparently has a reputation for Sunni extremism--the jeep driver and another female passenger were both Shi'ite Ismailis, and looked visibly nervous while driving through town. The driver, for instance, switched off the Shi'ite-themed music he'd been playing, while the woman quickly put on a headscarf. (IIRC, most--if not all--of the terrorists involved in the 2013 Nanga Parbat massacre were either from Chilas or fled to safehouses in Chilas after executing the attack)>the Hunza Valley is perhaps the most beautiful mountain setting I’ve ever seen (and I live in Switzerland, so I’m not a stranger to pretty mountains)Yeah, it's a really pretty place. I lost most of my Pakistan pictures, unfortunately--phone got stolen a few months after leaving, and I couldn't recover my Samsung Cloud credentials before a policy change wiped the entire database (lol)--but here's one of the few I have left.
OP here. Thank you all for the thoughtful and detailed recommendations.>>2673546Yes, I'll definitely be going to the border ceremony. I'll be flying into Amritsar beforehand, so my plan is to cross the border and then to watch the ceremony from the Pakistan side.>>2673665Thanks for confirming my suspicion that Islamabad is basically the Canberra of Pakistan. Probs won't bother. I'll see if I can fit in a stay at either Multan or Rawalpindi. I hadn't heard of Rawalpindi before, so I appreciate the recommendation.>>2673669>>2673670Amazing to hear that it's so easy to maintain alcoholism in a Muslim country. Will definitely make use of that intel - though I try to minimise my boozing nowadays. Might also lock in a Khewra salt mines day trip as it sounds feasible. Also, Katas Raj looks beautiful.I got the impression that the walled city was the area most worth checking out. I was looking into guided tours and found that the Walled City of Lahore Authority runs a few different ones. Anyone done any of these before, or can recommend another good tour provider? I mainly want to see the cultural/historical sites.I don't think I'll spend more than 5 days in the country since it's more of a detour for me as part of a longer trip in India. But I'd like to at least see the city and one or two places outside of it. Nowhere too remote though. Maybe I'll feel motivated to see more of the country in future after seeing Lahore.
>>2674628>I'll see if I can fit in a stay at either Multan or Rawalpindi. I hadn't heard of Rawalpindi before, so I appreciate the recommendation.Of these two, Multan is probanly the one to visit; although I think the above description “Islamabad’s ugly neighbor” is a little harsh, Pindi is in most quarters at least a bit of a mess. I enjoyed it because it’s got more street life than most of Islamabad, many standing pieces of interesting 19th c. architecture, and a couple of very old forts/historical sites not far away (of which Taxila is arguably most impressive). But for a short trip based out of Lahore it’s probably not worth the time. I would recommend it only if you happened to be flying into or out of the Islamabad airport as part of your trip.>>2674164>ended up having to drive from Gilgit to Islamabad How long did this trip take you, out of curiosity? I did it in the opposite direction, in the early spring, and bad weather and heavy traffic had us stuck on the Karakoram Highway for an insanely long time—I think it took us almost eighteen hours door-to-door, something like twice as long as we were expecting. That included a short lunch stop and a couple of pauses to take pictures or go to the toilet, but it was a bit of a slog notwithstanding. But perhaps it’s faster downhill.
>>2674628>I don't think I'll spend more than 5 days in the country since it's more of a detour for me as part of a longer trip in IndiaI'm the same anon from above.If you have any questions about India, too, feel free to ask--I lived there for many years. >>2674661>How long did this trip take you, out of curiosity? I did it in the opposite direction, in the early spring, and bad weather and heavy traffic had us stuck on the Karakoram Highway for an insanely long timeI just checked my Google Timeline, and it looks like we left Gilgit Airport around 2pm and arrived in Islamabad around 3:30am the following morning. So, in total, it took about 13.5-14 hours from Gilgit.
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