>Know you're running into a trap>Do nothing>DieThe political maneuvering in this film seemed a bit simplistic in this film.
>Know you're running into a trap>Do nothing>Luck out>Heh all according to keikaku
>>214131523it's explained better in the book
>>214131662The same answer when this film is questioned.
>>214131523There wasn’t anything he could do
>>214131802He could've taken his atomics and gone renegade.
>>214131523>desert power>cares more about the honor of his house than his own life individual >his lineage becomes gods and rules the universe
>>214131523>has to take control of Arrakis due to societal and legal obligations>does so, but knows hes walking into a trap>all the equipment there has been sabotaged by the Harkonnens making spice mining difficult >planet crawling with spies>Tries to win alliance with the Freemen tribes instead of fighting them>also tries to get on the good side of all the corrupt imperial officials on the planet>even turns a blind eye to spice pirates for their assistance>builds up this motley coalition to take on any Harkonnen threatThe book also goes into detail about how the Fremen are on parody with the sardaukar, so getting them on your side essentially makes you able to fight the Emperor himself.
>>214131704>Be me>Dennis Velveeta>Film important plot points from the book like the explanation for the betrayal of one of your main characters, setting up the story for the entire series>Also film long reaction shots of dysgenic mutts>Decide my 3 hour each multi-part movie series can only have one of theseJust watch Dune 2000
>>214131928Heh.
He was fucked anyway, if he refused to take over Arrakis they would have maneuvered the whole Landsraad against him. This is explained in much detail in the hecking bookerino. Basically he is hoping that through some miracle he will be able to hold Arrakis while reaching a settlement with the Emperor, not knowing the Harkonnens have already planned the whole thing out.
>>214131662Not really. The books are retarded and constantly revolve around autistic reasoning that Hebert is perfectly willing to throw out the window if it suits him>Dr Yueh will never betray us, his Sun conditioning makes it impossible!>oh no, the Harkonnens bypassed his conditioning somehow. Yueh has betrayed us
I always thought that them cutting a bunch of shit was inevitable, but cutting Thufir's entire story so he just disappears after the first act? And cutting Count Hevring? That was the true sign of bullshit. If Villeneuve ACTUALLY wanted to tear down Paul as a messiah/white savior, he would've pointed more towards the clear attempts to socially and genetically engineer the Kwisatz Haderach. Instead we get Zendaya nostril flaring at the horizon
>>214131704>be a pleb>never read books>question shitty adaptationsSucks to be (you).
>>214133384The point is that despite their advances, human attempts to control their nature never work. That baser undercurrent is too strong, whether it manifests positively (eg Lady Jessica wanting to give Leto a son, or Yueh wanting to free his wife from her suffering) or negatively in their violence, lust, greed etc (as with Alia and her succumbing to abomination)
>>214133476Everything after the first book is Herbert and his boy cashing in on the success of the first book. The first book is full of contradictions and dunces in part because Herbert tried to turn a ecology research project into a political thriller. >why doesn't the Emperor control DUNE>why doesn't the Emperor control the Guild >why doesn't the Guild rule the EmpireThose the big questions but there lots of smaller details such as>lasguns and shields would make terrorism very easyThe book is dumb. I'm not trying to take away your enjoyment of it. I love plenty of dumb things. Don't waste time trying to explain dumb.
>>214134500Balance or power. Every time a big power is near to hegemony a coalition stops them. Learn some history, retarded mutt.
Both of these movies felt so hollow. The world, the characters, the paper thin plot. There was absolutely nothing to it. Really confused me when seemingly everyone thought they were incredible.
>>214131926>the Fremen are on parody with the sardaukar
>>214133423thufirs sub plot doesn't really meaningfully impact how the overall events unfold, it's just a subplot of political intrigue
>>214134500>why doesn't the Emperor control DUNEThe landsraad + guild + bene gesserit would overthrow him>why doesn't the Emperor control the Guild The Houses, guild and bene gesserit would oppose the takeover>why doesn't the Guild rule the EmpireThey are already immensely powerful and wealthy. Why (most likely) lose it all, in a power struggle with the nobility?Remember, smugglers still exist, so the guild doesn't have an absolute monopoly on the entire spice trade, plus the great houses have massive reserves of spice.
>>214133384How is that autistic reasoning?They found a 0-day on Yueh, it was statistically improbable so the Atreides made their plans accordingly.
>>214133423To add to what the other anon said, there's not much to Thufir's backstory. Same with count Hevring. Cutting them off was good.
>>214134643>>214134534All very contrived and not properly explained even in the book Even the most retarded regime know they have to hold critical resource in their hand, that is how they would come in power in the first place, not by some conspiracy tier le shadowy organization If landsraad + guild + bene gesserit could overthrow the emperor at any given moment then lmao why would they even allow him to have the relatively strongest army. Then you would ask yourself why even need an emperor, what purpose does he serve? It is not like they need to conduct diplomacy with any foreign power
Dune and 40K have that neat concept of AI being essentially genocides and outlawed based on very bad experiences but I find it retarded that they are successful. Both settings reference post-singularity runaway AGI and that’s a Pandora’s box you can’t shut after opening it. If they did, then they’re already so powerful they shouldn’t give a damn.
>>214122797The Harkonnen only had Arrakis as a quasi-fief under a Choam directorship.The Atreides were transferred in their fief from Caladan to Arrakis as a "reward" from the Emperor.
The real problem with Dune (both the book and the movie) is that the Emperor's entire motive to weaken House Atreides is really not well explained or fleshed out. The premise is that Duke Atreides' source of power is supposed to be his political popularity among the other Great Houses and the fact that he's a distant cousin to the Emperor, such that he represents a latent threat to replace the Emperor (who has no male heir). Thus the Corrino/Harkonnen plot: The Emperor "rewards" House Atreides by giving it the most lucrative fief in the galaxy, making him look magnanimous to the rest of the Great Houses, but then conspires with House Harkonnen and lending them a legion of Sarduakar to eliminate House Atreides can be in a surprise attack that will be blamed on the Harkonnens acting alone out of spite.The problem is that Duke Atreides doesn't ever seem to engage in any sort of politics or socializing or networking with the rulers of the other great houses, nor does he spend any time training his heir Paul on carrying out what is actually supposed to make him and his house so powerful (politics, rhetoric, upper-class socializing, etc.).Paul should really be traveling around the galaxy all the time with his father since he was young, going to fancy parties with lots of upper-class people and making friends with the scions of the other major houses, and learning the family business. The fact that he's been cloistered on Caladan his whole life makes no sense.
>>214134873>Internal balances of power are contrivedDune is basically space feudalism. Due to the no "thinking machine" rule, travel is extremely expensive and relatively rare. The emperor's grasp on all of humanity in the galaxy, isn't as strong as you make it out to be.What purpose does the emperor serve? He is an anchor. Stability. Without him, the nobles would all be infighting for power. If they are together, the moment someone "steps out of line" and threatens the others, they are taken out.>why would they even allow him to have the relatively strongest armyImagine you are a duke of a planet. You have space drugs, wine, top tier food, hot concubines galore, etc. Living it up. Why the fuck would you risk that cushy life to overthrow the emperor? Why would anyone? You would need the backing of virtually all the other great houses to succeed. And as we saw with the Atreides, when a house does start to gain that backing, the emperor takes them out before they become a direct threat.>Then you would ask yourself why even need an emperorEnforcement of order. A rival house assassinates your brother, injures your daughter. They are coming for you. You simply go to the emperor, and ask that he step in and maintain the status quo. He does so, and your life of extreme luxury is protected.
>>214131523He knew it was a trap. He DIDN'T expect that they'd hit him that hard, didn't expect Saudukar there in force, didn't expect the betrayal, didn't expect it to happen so quickly, etc. Given the quality of what he was working with, I think his assumptions were fairly reasonable. There are more than a few variations of what plays out where he could have survived down there.
>>214131926>The book also goes into detail about how the Fremen are on par with the sardaukar, so getting them on your side essentially makes you able to fight the Emperor himself.ftfybut also, yea it bug what the movie leaves out. This is a big plot point. Leaving the time skip out also hurts the plot. The thing about the Fremen is there is thought to be like, 30k of them and it's an embarrassment that the Harkonnens can't handle them. Turns out there's millions and that's a force rivaling any force.
>>214134958>headcanon about AI
>>214131523arrakis is simply too big a prize to ignore
>>214135035>The problem is that Duke Atreides doesn't ever seem to engage in any sort of politics or socializing or networking with the rulers of the other great houses, nor does he spend any time training his heir Paul on carrying out what is actually supposed to make him and his house so powerful (politics, rhetoric, upper-class socializing, etc.).This is not a book problem, though. It comes down to adaptations wanting to show Atreides as the good guys when in reality they were a Great House willing to play ball just like any other. Duke even orders a raid on Gieidi Prime to destroy Harkonne Spice reserves, for example. What made Atreides different is the way they weaponized honor and loyalty which made them an actual threat to the Emperor.
>>214136018Double headcanon, actually.
>>214135035>is that the Emperor's entire motive to weaken House Atreides is really not well explained or fleshed out.you mean besides the bene gesserit influencing him to do it, because they're mad the atreides have a son that messes up the inheritance scheme for their planned kwisatz pawn to inherit the empire?
>>214136231You need good guys and bad guys or the average moviegoer will get confused and angry. One of the reasons why Dune isn't a good candidate for cinematic adaptations.
>>214136465>One of the reasons why Dune isn't a good candidate for cinematic adaptations.>ignores the beloved cinematic adaptations
>>214136419>besides the bene gesserit influencing him to do itAnd the guild.>>214136498Beloved? Sure, but it's shit.
It would be a better story if duke knew but was too greedy to deny the golden opportunity and risked it all. Would also make him a deeper character.
