>Homosexuality is pre-ordained at birth and not the product of molestation or rape despite the movie being 2 hours of WOE IS ME I GOT RAPED misery pornThis is the most disingenious, two-faced movie I've ever seen.
>>214280754When does it say it was pre-ordained? I think Araki is a more self ware type of gay, his movies are pretty brutal.
where did the first gay rapist come from
Never saw it but did see the scene where he moons the pickup truck and Michelle trachtenberg is the sitting next to the.
more effeminate and less self-asserting child is more suseptible to being preyed upon by a pedophile
>>214280800>"straight" man gets drunk and confused, rapes a feminine looking boy
>>214280784He beats you over the head with "NEIL WAS ALWAYS GAY FROM THE START" and doesn't at all confront the reality of most homosexuals being the byproduct of older men molesting/raping them as young boys. Basically>yeah the abuse by Coach was horrible and all and it left permanent scars but his homosexuality was there from the startit's bullshit
>>214280842There's a world of difference between an actual homosexual who likes adult men and a boylover.
>>214280754Let me give you a history lesson, zoomer. For the past 30 years homo activists had to say they were "born this way" and therefore they can't do anything about it and deserve equal rights, even though everyone knew it wasn't true. It was a political tactics to achieve their goals.
>>214280847I have talked to a gay guy who talked about being molested as a child, but the way he phrased it was like "maybe I was curious myself." Not like he was blaming himself, but that maybe he welcomed the abuse more easily than other straight kids would have. I'm just recapping what he said, it's fucked up, but it is what it is.
>>214280891I'm bi and I was never molested or raped. I simply enjoy cock too.
>>214280894He can't remember life before the abuse because he was way too young when it happened. That's the infuriating part. So he just internalizes it so it will hurt him less as he grows older and molds his life accordingly to what he perceives himself to be due to the trauma and abuse shaping his entire worldview. The movie was so close to portraying that but they coped-out to perpetuate the BORN THAT WAY horseshit.
>>214280944There is the horrifying thought that many boys out there were molested/raped but that their minds were able to black it out entirely from their mind and they go on not in blissful ignorance. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to me.
>>214280949I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you, but I do find it a bit strange that you assume you can speak on the issue more than the actual faggot who made this movie.
If you didn’t like it, consider watching a different movie next time.
>>214280873yes, the difference is that one is a pedophile
>>214281007He's biased and it shows. He cucks out and sugarcoats it by saying Neil was gay from the start, as I've said before.>>214281061yes....that's what I said.
/tv/ ain't mature enough for this movie.
>>214281114Why do you think he's biased. I think the entire point was to dispel the argument you're making, which obviously he disagrees with.
>>214281147Then the movie is a mess. So, what's it ending up saying about the topic at hand? If you don't subscribe to gays only existing due to trauma then anything else then the movie's thematic potency is lost and it becomes just another shallow fetish film. What's the pathos here? That Neil didn't have a healthier gay experience? What's it saying if it's not saying homos turn kids gay through rape?
>>214281243The argument you're making that gays only exist due to being molested isn't a new argument, it was being made back when this movie was made as well. I think he made the movie as a thesis to disprove that; even though the protagonist was molested, he was already gay before that. I'm guessing it's a personal story for the director. Wouldn't be surprised if the main guy is his self insert.
>>214280754>Homosexuality is pre-ordained at birthBut...20 years ago they said being a fag was totally not a heckin choice and completely natural!
>>214281386Why would someone choose to be gay if they aren't? Sounds like you have something to admit.
>>214281289Again, if the director doesn't subscribe to that theory because he is gay himself and obviously wouldn't, then what is the movie's point? What is the tragedy of the story? Because if being gay is heckin brave and stunnin then what's the point of all the torture porn showing how his life is a miserable hell and being gay is a huge reason why that is.
>>214281243I'm gay and have never been molested. Wasn't the child of single parents or any of that shit.
>>214281464You probably blocked it out of memory.
>>214281427It's a story about how molestation can fuck someone up. The other kid who was molested becomes a weird incel obsessed with alien abduction. Personally, I think the "gay lifestyle" does tend to be heavily influenced by sexual trauma and I say this as someone with gays in their close family. I think a lot of the club and bar culture of straight people is similar, though. The ones who are really "out there" are usually the ones with unresolved issues. Not every gay is like that, though. Also, I think the fact that gays are male-male relationships explains why they're so fucking horny all the time.
>>214281521Bingo. It's always a romanticized eternal victim complex with homosexuals. Stories with them can only be either doomed "romances" showing that two men can never be together and suffering if they try or about how they were raped to bits as kids. Either or.
>>214281504Nope
>>214281388This scene almost got me, It was a very masculine way of portraying suffering. JGL's character just accepts it, but wishes he could stop the other from feeling it. It's such a dark scene and it kind of applies to any sort of trauma in life, not just rape. Sometimes the trauma is so bad, you black it out and forget about it or just cover it up with something else.
>>214281686Seconded. The music was beautiful and very powerful. As a whole, the movie isn't just about being raped as a kid but as a whole about the misery and strife people experience in the world and how it shapes them permanently in life and there's no turning back from it. That's the whole crux, the gay molestation story was just one manifestation of that idea they centered on.
>>214281595I would say it's somewhat warranted. Also, Araki's got other films that are not about that that involve gay characters.
>>214280994This is very likely the case.Every random gay dude I’ve hooked up with has their “origin” story they’ve shared with me.
>>214280754The only gay rape movie I've ever seen is Sleepers and I don't want to see any more.
>>214280754You're retarded and cannot understand the concept of tonal ambiguity or nuance. The film was very clearly a gay man grappling with his own indecision surrounding the origin of his preferences with regard to the question you're asking. The fact you're insisting on such a retarded clear cut either or answer demonstrates you're essentially an insect without a frontal lobe. Die, ect.
>>214281794The world is a cruel, senseless place. If we were truly sentient then we would all be commiting suicide.
>>214281831Would you mind terribly engaging in this discussion in a far saner, dignified manner so you can sway me to your outlook on this film than act like a detestable spastic?
>>214280754>Homosexuality is pre-ordained at birth and not the product of molestation or rape despite the movie being 2 hours of WOE IS ME I GOT RAPED misery pornLeftists may claim this, but science does not. Homosexuality is generally a product or upbringing and having ass parasites.
>>214281595It's funny because there's no reason you can't just depict a normal, healthy relationship between two gay men - but of course, most of them really are fucked up people with issues, especially the ones in writing.
It is possible for some guys to be born gay. It is possible for some guys to be impelled towards homosexuality through abuse. Both are treated as outcasts by society at large. Both are at greater risk for abuses, both from society at large and from the gay communityPeople who lean towards homosexuality after abuse are treated argued to be victims who "simply aren't right in the head because they've been damaged".But the person who is naturally homosexual, innocently, by the impulse of his soul: he's also treated as if he's damaged, and funneled into a difficult community - a community of people who consider themselves to be damaged or who take pleasure in abusing - even if he is neither damaged nor abusive himself.
>>214282048This. The gay community is really fucked up and any gay person will tell you so if they trust you enough. It's more complicated than OP thinks, though. Actually somewhat compelling to hear it explained honestly.
>>214281862To be honest I have little interest in engaging with your semi rhetorical debate tactics wherein you're going to act like the themes and images in the film have objective meanings that can be viewed as coherent or not. You're not really meeting the film in the middle here but rather projecting your own pre-existing biases onto the more nuanced look its giving on the subject matter. However, having seen it a year or so ago, without a rewatch, here are my thoughts.Araki is and especially was sort of an authority in the industry on tackling extremely taboo subject matter, queer or not, and I think this movie is far more about molestation than queerness to be honest. Araki lays out his feelings on gayness and other shit like that pretty clearly in nowhere, the living end, and the doom generation. He views it as a death drive sort of thing, a rejection of the idea of being forced to live as a slave within modern societal boundaries. He's clearly a guy who thinks that there are people who are born gay, people who chose to be gay, people who are born straight, people who chose to be straight, ect. It's a more classical view of the queer scene. As for Mysterious Skin specifically it really deals more heavily with the idea of repression on both the societal and personal level than it does with the characters being explicitly gay, as is demonstrated by the blonde lead not really being gay but more of a strange shut in incel due to the repression forced upon him by both his environment and the sexual trauma he endured. JGL being gay is more of a commentary on how straight molested people turn inward and are often left alone, societies vitriolic focus on queer people oftentimes means that abused queer children can find themselves pursued by bad people, furthering the wound and further confusing their situations, weather or not they were straight or gay to begin with. The movie is allowed to take the stance that kids can be both independently gay and abused.
hate faggots simple as
>>214282267But you're a faggot.
>>214282282nice projection faggot
>>214282291You're here in a gay thread seething about faggots. If you were straight you'd be using your time differently.
>>214282391just don’t like em
>>214282415Go do whatever straight people do instead of pretending you don't like fags.
is this movie good
>>214280754you're an idiot
>>214282435don’t shit your diaper fag
>>214282449yea
>>214281386those are not contradictory statements.>>214281925kill yourself, stupid faggot
>>214282048This is true. I was never abused and I have homosexual feelings, and I can't relate to the so-called gay community or lifestyle at all. It's alien to me.
>>214282479For your own sake, if you really consider yourself straight, stop spending your energy in here. You *will* end up gay.
>>214282554meds
>>214282515can't get dumber than believing people are born gay
>>214282624I mean... you're free to spend your time lurking in a 4chan thread about a gay movie and gay issues ...
>>214282662and yet somehow you've managed it
>>214280847Name another movie that makes such an explicit connection between molestation and homosexuality though.
>>214280994Literally part of the films plot. The one kid turns his molestation into a visitation by aliens. This movie has a fantastic soundtrack btw
>>214281464Being gay because you got memed into it by a pro-gay culture isn't really the same thing. You just have a weak mind.
>>214281794Kind of the same as coalburners actually. If you talk to them for some extended period of time, you usually find out they were raped by their coalburning moms black boyfriend. Either or is a sign of aberrant sexuality.
fucking normalfags man
>>214280754>Homosexuality is pre-ordained>Muh rapeI can't believe pretentious asshats still debate shit like this. Did you guys not have that obvious gay kid in school growing up? I had known a couple since middle school, they are pretty normal otherwise, grew up, got married, adopted kids.Seriously, all posts like these say about you is that you've not lived a life or been outside. Extremely sad behaviour from anon #214280754. leave your parents' basement and stop being a faggot.
>>214282188JGLs character is fucked up too in the film. He's a rentboy ffs. Puts himself in dangerous situations where he could end up Dahmered. His sexuality is very abnormal and informed by his trauma. Even if he was more confused as a child than the other boy, he still was molested and thus mentally destroyed by it. Araki probably has had a similar experience and internalized it as "yeah but I kind of wanted it to happen though,!" Either way, we see the destructive outcome play out during the duration of the film.
>>214282969How would you know that kid didn't get raped?
>>214280894>>214282980I posted this first comment. Weird thing is, the guy I talked to about it says he wants to kill the guy who molested him, so clearly even if he was "curious" he was still traumatized by it.
>>214283013How would (You) know whether he did?
>>214283013Meh, he didn't. I get it though, you just wanna have fun posting bait and being a faggot. Keep at it idc, this is the only place where you can mask your obvious single digit IQ under threads about film "criticism".
>>214281794>Every gay dude i hooked up withWhich as we all know is a totally straight thing to do
>>214280800jews
>>214282090Too true, on a Grindr hookup I’m completely chill and don’t put on a front and everyone is surprised by it. One guy told me every is usually extremely mean or quiet and borderline serial killer vibes and I am just perplexed. What kinds of gay/DL men are existing out there.
>>214283208What can I say, I’m bi.it’s easy when horny, and you don’t have to play the games women do or deal with their annoying bullshit after if you don’t want a relationship
>>214282980You’ll encounter JGL demon twink irl and they are dangerous desuYou cannot reason with them, they are on their own path of self destruction, there really is no intervention.
>>214283398I'm very jealous of you, i always wanted to be into men precisely for the simplicity that comes with it as you mentionI've hooked up with a bunch of guys, but unfortunately after trying it i can confirm it isn't my thing, i was pretty shocked by how easy it is to get casual sex as a gay/bi man tho
>>214283213
>>214283541After trying it? Bro you are a fucking faggot.
>>214283149You know nothing, faggot
>>214283541There is a “game” of sorts around itA lot of gay men do cruising where they potentially hookup on site. Not my thing however, I think that pretty degenerate. I like the more intimate aspects though, not just the fucking. I’m certain what normal men have as brotherly bonding has become perverted for me though.
>>214280754>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc9Z5I9H4Q8don't let anybody tell you how or what you are supposed to be. it's your choice.>i'm ''FUCKYOUFUCKYOU'' and you have to agree or elseis the problem
>>214283541
>>214283655More men have tried gay shit than not tried it, mind you. By large margins. You think homosex is a sin and it’s uncommon? Certainly something that rarely happens or is rarely an impulse would be a sin right? Cause only uncommon things are sins..
>>214280754Homosexuality derives from the act of maladjustment growing up in a broken home.t. I'm gay
>>214283786Shit like this makes me sad and want to cuddle bros :(
>>214283449Say, hypothetically, you have someone like JGL's character, ie. a guy obviously born gay, who ISN'T self destructive and is doing their best to get along with society and be a good person in it.
>>214283780>More men have tried gay shit than not tried it, mind you. By large marginsTop kek. No, they really haven't u faggot weirdo degenerate. You gonna quote kinsey or some shit? Kinsey who had pedophiles come down to his basement and tell him stories about giving kids orgasms. Wise up mate. 99% of men would rather die than do gay shit. Sorry to break it to you but you're a creep with a shit fetish.
>>214283731Have you considered that you're the problem?
>>214283872I wish it wasn’t the case but it is, clearly you don’t go outside enough or you’re ugly. The amount of “straight” men you can encounter is astounding.
>>214283922>or you’re ugly.I'm not the one crawling up other men's arses mate. It's never even been a thought, never mind an option. You are truly disgusting.
>>214283891no.
>>214283960Then stop and consider why someone would take a position of "Fuck You"
>>214282736Richie Rich
>>214284004why do you want to own people to ''be yourself''?
>>214283780https://www.medicaldaily.com/straight-men-react-two-men-kissing-same-sex-pda-heightens-physiological-stress-419697you understand normal men find you as disgusting as seeing maggots crawl around over food?
>>214284032What the fuck are you talking about?
>>214280754His best movie anyway
>>214284043why do you want to own people to ''be yourself''?
>>214280754People who look for an epigenetic "cause" just want to judge/stop sth. It could be that abuse makes it extra hard for the victim to accept themselves. Just like straight victims have warped views of relationship/sex after being abused.
>>214284078Attempt coherence.
>>214284093if only
>>214284058nope
>>214284042>>214283956>imagine deluding yourself to the point where you think this is normal thinking
>>214284160You don't get nude prime Rose McGowan in this movie do you're objectively wrong.
>>214284223Rose is cool as fuck in Doom Generation. I get it. But post nut clarity says Kadoom is the better movie
>>214284189stfu bug chaser
>>214284132You seem to be asserting something about me, and it's literally just not registering. >why do you want to own people to ''be yourself''?Is a phrase that can be interpreted many ways. None of them I find coherent.With this said, with your original post here >>214283731I am suggesting a person who is naturally gay, sans abuse, who is ostracized by society simply for being gay, might be in the right to take an attitude of "FUCK YOU", towards people who create and perpetuate the society that rejected him. Consider also that there have been ancient cultures where homosexuality was far more accepted and integrated into life.
>>214284295You got a short refractory period dude so you can fuck right off this moment forward.
>>214284352>You seem to be asserting something about meI don't care <3
>>214284395I don't care for you either.
>>214284379doom generation is boring. Quit simping for a movie because u like a pair of tits.
>>214284446Sorry you were born a fag but it's still a great movie.
>>214284446Quit simping for a faggot director cause he turned you down when you offered a freebie.
Isn't this based on a book that had very graphic descriptions of rape?
>fag talkIt's so over for fagsAny sign of fagdom means they're a girl now and will have their cock removedThe gay community is done. lol
>>214284976That kind of talk will destroy the world.
>>214280800Where did the first It Follows come from
>>214280842Air quoting the straight word implies that he's not straight, so gay, so what made him gay in the first place? There must be a head vampire.
God was the first gay. That's why he made mankind.
>>214284856>Isn't this based on a bookYes.>that had very graphic descriptions of rape?Not really. It's about the same as the movie.
>>214284327I’ll love you even if you don’t love yourself <3
>>214280754It's a great movie. Also confirms what I thought as a kid when we found out some guy had diddled some guys from my school - they were all fags. Getting diddled didn't make them fags, they got diddled because they were buttmunchers. I always wandered how someone could be such a bitch to get molested, but I think they just radiate poofter energy.
>>214286272You've got problems.
