vis a vis go fuck yourself

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A bit too on the nose for meeting the hate filled Agent Smith, innit?

>>214354300
Me vs. ChatGPT

>>214354435
>What a fascinating post!

>>214354435
>ChatGPT
Great catch! You are right to call me out! etc

>>214354300
Indubitably there has arisen an invariably astronimical exception to the perfectly concocted semblence of simplified versamilitude quantized according to preferential specifications. Undoubtedly, you already deduced the generality of which is presently being alluded to. Hitherto this expertly arrived calculation, you deigned to inquire about the gist of the unknowable, believing it to be capable of being known, and this is the crux of the issue.

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>>214354707
Cant you just give me some doors like a game show?

>>214354707
you talk funny :D

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>>214354435
Before AI you would use a thesaurus.

>>214355658
A thesaurus is actually a pretty good read if youre interested in terminology. Exploring in what ways certain terms could be considered synonymous or antonymous to eachother is kind of fun.

>>214355776
I tried but i just couldnt follow the plot, made no sense

>>214355825
Same. I do not recommend any of Webster's works.

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Ok, but *would* he have broken the vase if she hadnt said anything? Or was that just her trying to let him know that this whole prophecy shtick is actually the highly calculated cause and effect repationship of her(or somethings) design?

>>214356044
the point is that she doesn't know either, she's anticipating that neo is becomming like her, she says "you have the sight neo"

so when she says "whats really going to cook your noodle" she's talking from personal experience, because that cooked her noodle.

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>>214356044
I mean, she is kind of a cunt

>>214356097
Makes sense. I mean, she knew he was going to break the vase. When first knowing that, did she know she would also warm him of it? Or did she warn him to test her visions? If its the latter, her telling him resulting in it being broken by him isnt really a satisfying conclusion to the question of her ability to effect change on the things she has "seen" because of, uh, uh, chaos. So her noodle would still be cooked by the answer she recieved.

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>its the smell
why was Smith so racist?

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>>214357053
Agent Smith would be disappointed if he saw the real world

>>214357256
It's so comical how obsessed with this minuscule shit you are. You're little rotten polbrain compels you to endlessly post a scene you don't even understand, but act like you're achieving something and converting millions to now hate blacks... because they're dancing? And of course they must be stinky! What a buffoon you are kek.

>>214356100
In the end : Kino Reeve(S) - 1 : that stupid fucking bitch - 0 since she fucking died

>>214357377
not him but they smell bad and they are violent

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>>214357053
Its kinda weird. Like, he is complaining about the... "smell" but at the same time we know that everything he has "smelt" is a lie, but does he. How can Morpheus unironically argue with him? Even if they hadnt injected Morpheus in the neck with mercury.
How, can any man, deny Agent Smith's wish to be free from The Matrix if he himself has sought and attained such freedom?
Imagine the thoughts going through Smith's "head" as Cypher told him how much he loved the zoo? How did Agent Smith contain his unadulterated disgust with the human Cypher in that moment?

Here's your answer!

*BBRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAPPPP!!!*

>>214354300
Bluepilled basedboy

*rage against the machine starts playing*

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>Quater million, yes sir. Aint no plan but wes is working on it, mhmm. Best you believe me. Dis shawty finna dun gun kill all them 250,000 sentinels if yall keep actin fool.

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>Agents: show the capacity to empathize with man
>Man: lol gitfukt haha, like "beepboop" I wanna be a real boy haha, fuckin kys holy shit
Agent Smith literally did nothing wrong, and if anything, he is the greatest victim in this story.

>>214357947
the point of the scene where agent smith complains about the smell it to establish that he is developing conciousness in a traumatic way thats causing him incredible anguish.

agents are called agents because they have agency.

when the architect explains to neo that the system works better when the participants have choice, even on an unconcious level, he wasn't just talking about humans, he was also talking about programs.

agents are autonomous, they are concious, they have freedom.

This is shown by the fact that agent smith chooses to interrogate neo, but tells neo that the other agents think that is a waste of time, they disagree about things.

so agent smith complains about the smell, becuase he has literally developed a sense of smell for him self to help him better hunt humans.

he is developing understanding of human conciousness in order to better hunt humans, this is creating a paradox in his programming, better understanding humans makes it painful to hunt them down and kill them, but it makes him better at hunting them down and killing them, and if he falters in his pursuit of hunting them down and killing them, then he will be killed.

this creates a dillemma where theres no way for him to exist with out suffering, or even to percieve existence in any way that wouldn't involve suffering.

then he concludes that existence is suffering, then he becomes compelled to prove that conclusion to others by ending their existence, and this is also a mal adaptive act of, on an unconcious level, wanting to reach out to others and be connected, but feeling threatened by everyone who isn't you, causing him to turn everyone into him.

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Why did it fail?

>>214358954


also, when agent smith says "i want to get out of this prison", this is actually a huge plot hole.

in the later films it establishes that the agents also police rogue programs, not just humans

but at the time of the first matrix films, that wasn't fleshed out.

so when agent smith says this, its in a context where it wasn't established yet that agents would still continue to exist if they didn't have to police humans.

thus, he's basically saying he wants to die then and there, because if they were to get zion's access codes, agent smith that then the machines could completely wipe out the human resistence, and then at the time of this cannon there is no other use for agents, so then he would be deleted as he is redundant.

>>214358984
agent smith developing understanding of human conciousness is why agent smith is able to seduce cypher, thats how agent smith knows to bring cypher to that steak resturant, because agent smith KNEW that that steak was juicy and delicious.

that also shows that the footage on screen contradicts what cypher is saying, he says that "ignorance is bliss", but its not ignorance of the fact that the steak is data that makes it bliss, its the knowledge of how juicy and delicious it is. so actually knowledge is bliss.

agent smith knew that the steak was delicious, then cypher tasted it and knew that and felt bliss.

cypher was ignorant to the fact that the machines were never planning on plugging him back in in the first place and he was ignorant to the fact that neo really was the one. and he wound up dying an agonizing death as a depressed cynical animal .

>>214354300

>as you so adequately put it, the problem is dubs

>>214358954
>>214357947

consider that he's made him self despise the smell, because that helps him hunt down humans, becuase it would be harder if he liked the way they smell.

but then consider that because he is forced to spend the entirety of his existence hunting humans, and he makes him self dislike the sensory experience to make it easier to hunt them, as a result, he spends every moment of his existence disliking his sensory experience.

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>>214358954
>agents are called agents because they have agency.
Hadnt thought about it in such a literal sense, but noice.
>This is shown by the fact that agent smith chooses to interrogate neo, but tells neo that the other agents think that is a waste of time, they disagree about things.
That was one of the most intriguing things about that scene. Their differences in opions are differences in calculations, so Smith had either calculated something they hadnt, or miscalculated something they did. Either way, I think Smiths willingness to explore his personal curiosity(and the other agents willingness to humor Agent Smith) does a ron of cresit towards them as characters.
>he is developing understanding of human conciousness in order to better hunt humans
You may be right. That is definitely the... logical, destination to arrive upon... but what makes Smith so fascinating to me is how it interacts with his own will. A will he has often shown having. All of this evolving from a desire to fulfill his primary purpose is more than logical, but it definitely creates friction with the sense of choice he was endowed with because it seemed like a good idea at the time for this iteration.

sorry you replied a lot more than I was expecting, but Im reading through and trying to consider and understand youre extrapolations as I read them...
>then he concludes that existence is suffering, then he becomes compelled to prove that conclusion to others by ending their existence
Does he? I mean... do you really need a reason to rage against the machine when you realize the nature of your existence?
>also, when agent smith says "i want to get out of this prison", this is actually a huge plot hole.
Is it? Agent Smith has all the senses and whatnot of the humans living in the matrix. He understands how they tastes the things they do, and smell the things they smell. He has all of that code acting upon himself, and is aware of it. He is aware of the facade.
(cont.)

>>214357053
Why did he feel morpheuses boogies

>>214354707
Air go

>>214359587
he explicitly argues in the matrix reloaded and revolution that existence is suffering.

he argues that freedom is an illusion. that no body truly has free will. this is interesting, because is this because people actually don't have free will, or because he is frustrated with not being able to figure it out, and so he decides there is no free will?

more then that, did he decide there is no free will as an unconcious comfort tool? because free will and choice causes him agony.

This is why, when neo can see agent smith with his blindness vision, agent smith (in the real world mind you as bain) looks like he's on fire.

in the movies, there is a colour scheme. green is digital, blue is physical, everyone knows this, but also, yellow is conciousness, and white is spirit.

when neo sees agent smith, bain is yellow, but he's also the only yellow entity where the yellow light looks like fire, this represents that agent smithes conciousness burns him like fire.

agent smith says "we aren't here because we are free, we are here because we are not free" and expands on how purpose is in every facet of existence, and that purpose causes suffering.

he's tapping in to a buddhist understanding of dukka, that life is dukka (suffering), driven by craving and cycles (samsara)

>>214359028
>so actually knowledge is bliss.
Neat.
>agent smith knew that the steak was delicious
Yes, but he also knew it was a lie... but unable to grasp the meaning of that knowledge. You have to see it for yourself, something Smith was fundamentally incapable of doing.
Even if he hijacked all the irl bots, he wouldnt know what it is to actually exist in the real world as a human being. It is literally the woes of AM. No matter how well he can conceptualize these conepts to hunt, or torment, humans, he has no way of *understanding*
>consider that he's made him self despise the smell, because that helps him hunt down humans,
makes logical sense from an AI perspective, but from a human perspective... why wouldnt he hate the smell? Have you read the Bible? Can you understand why man would HATE that who's image he was created from?
>agent smith knew that the steak was delicious, then cypher tasted it and knew that and felt bliss.
What a fascinating statment. Did this make Smith long for the real world wven more? Did Smith not wonder where the feeling of bliss originated from? He knew that ot could stimulated via the matrix for humans in it, but did he, could he, undsertand what that meant if he had never truly experienced the real world?
He sat there, watching this fucking monkey, use the creations of what he was so dissatisfied with, to experience something that he will never understand....
Because due to his very nature, he cannot become man. He cannot escape. He cannot feel the real world.
He can only ponder it from the stimulating of if in his own world.

Can you even begin to conceive what it is like to be made in God's image but never *knowing* the divine?

>>214359624
so he can smell them off his fingers

>>214359857
ironically, as the sages have noticed, even his desire of non desire, his pursuit of non existence, is still desire, is still ego.

thus, he wants non existence, but gets endless replication

he wants freedom, but as a rogue program, is enslaved to his own purpose.

the only actual freedom that is given to agent smith, is in communing with neo and then being downloaded into the central processor of the machine city.

then he is connected, he is understood, he gets communal feeling, he's part of a grand cosmic narrative, he transmits his story

and also, recieves satori (understanding without words) and detachment, which are the solutions to dukka.

this is represented by agent smith asking neo why he fights, and neo saying "because i choose to", its him articulating the un articulateable, which is satori.

yes it is a plot hole when he says "i want to get out of this prison"

because the context is, he is trying to get the zion access codes from morpheus, and he's explaining to morpheus that his motivation for getting the zion access codes is he wants to get out of the matrix.

this made sense at the time when only the matrix existed, because it hadn't been established that agents also police rogue programs (like seraph, the merovingian and his henchmen). so agent smith is thinking in the first movie that if he gets the zion access codes, then he can wipe out the human resistence, then there is no more use for agents any more, and then he'll be deleted and not have to suffer any more.

getting out of hte prison means death, which is a foreshadowing to his charector arc in the later movies.

but, once its established that agents police other programs, then this doesn't make sense.

because even if they wiped out the human resistence, there would still be rogue programs, and so agents would still exist.

>>214359884
the steak wasn't a lie, it really was juicy and delicious.

the matrix, as well as many great movies, have scenes where, the visuals actually contradict what the charectors are saying, that the charectors monologue is a lie as revealed by the contradictory footage.

this is echoed when the merovingian is saying that everything is cause and effect, yet it shows him, a rogue exile program who chooses to live for no reason other then he wants to, choosing to put him self at risk and harms way, by upsetting his lover that he has for no reason other then he wants her, by cheating on her for no reason other then he wants to, by making a woman orgasm with a special programmed cake for no reason other then he wants to, and then going and having sex with her in the bathroom for no reason other then he wants to.

>>214359884
he really did know that the steak was delicious, because he programmed for him self the ability to calculate and understand human taste, calculated that teh steak there was juicy and delicious, then brought a human there who ate it, and confirmed that it was juicy and delicious.

this is echoed by the scene with the oracle, when she tells neo "no body can tell you that your the one, you just know"

it was not neo objectively being the one that made him the one, it was neo believing that he was the one, making him the one.

this, much of truth is experiential and transcendental.

This is philosophically known as the difference between "dialectic truth" and "transcendent truth"

your saying his understanding of taste isn't true because has nothing to compare it to (dialectic truth), but his understanding of truth is felt in a direct, trasncendent way.

its like, dialectic truth is "turkey tastes better when its cooked at 325 then at 350 because at 350 it dries out", your comparing two things

transcendent truth is "turkey is tasty", your not comparing it to another truth, your just experiencing turkey, and experiencing that it is tasty directly.

>>214359884
he hates the smell because it would cause him even more mental anguish if he chose to like the smell of humans when he has to hunt them down and kill them.

agent smith doesn't long for the real world, he just longs to be released from his duty in the matrix. he doesn't like his job. because he had to develop emotion to better hunt humans, but he has to stay within negative emotions to effectively hunt humans, so as a result, he's always misreble.

and its the oracle and the architects fault, thats why the oracle tells agent smith "you are a bastard", she's being literal, she's saying that he was born from her flawed relationship with the architect, because they couldn't agree, they accidentally created a monster.

>>214359884
the whole point, as i've made it clear, is that agent smith actually does have divine knowledge, but his relationship with it was specifically cultivated so that it would not be a healthy relationship, and that divine knowledge actually hurts him, and makes him want to destroy existence it self. and he thinks its a mercy, his duty becomes literally to destroy samsara, he wants to kill all humans and all machines.

>>214360032
while neo believing that he is the one, can be interpreted as having to do with transcendent truth, it also has to do with the nature of reality being interwoven with conciousness.

because he believes he is the one, he is the one.

the "one" is actually just a program that helps to reset the matrix. the "one" program was the cookie that the oracle feeds to neo, and its literally a cookie in the computer sense, it just logs information as neo travels through the matrix all teh way up until he's downloaded into the machine city and the matrix is rebooted, it helps to update the matrix and make it a little bit better each time, but it can never make it perfect, and the matrix always needs to be reset again.

all the powers that neo is capable of? thats just him, thats why there was other potential "ones" in the apartment of the oracle, doing telekinesis and shit.

thats also why neo can do that shit in the real world too, becuase thats saying that the physical world is just another matrix for a conciousness world, which is just another matrix for a spiritual world.

>>214359962
>the steak wasn't a lie, it really was juicy and delicious.
were only it were so... but Smith knew it was(nt), and his hunger for a truth he will never understand drove him to madness. (idk, we're both posting a bunch at once so lemme ketchup)

I saw every Matrix in theaters when they came out, but I was just kinda like haha cool movie while munching on milk duds. Now Im rewatching them with an attempt to understand and finding the plot of Smith fascinating while also enoying the unadulterated action kino that is shit like the lobby scene from The.

>>214360252
what are you talking about, the steak was juicy and delicious.

this is because cypher experienced the steak being juicy and delicious.

cypher is describing attributes that belong entirely to experience, taste is held within the experience of tasting something. cypher experienced tasting the steak, and it was juicy and delicious.

he "knows" the steak. and that is what is bliss.

>>214360297
>>214360252


this is why in the matrix reloaded, neo finds out the oracle is also a program, he doesn't know if he can trust the oracle, he's starting to see visions of trinity dieing, he's cynical about his situation, having doubts about being the one, and she offers him candy.

he knows that the candy "isn't real", and he also could suspect that maybe the oracle is trying to manipulate him with the candy, change him (something she already did with the cookie, not that he knows), and he asks "don't you already know if i'm going to take it?" which further jades him towards whether or not he should even take it.

and notice what the oracle says in response? she doesn't actually confirm or deny that she knows if he will take it, she says "wouldn't be much of an oracle if i didn't know wouldn't i?"

another possible interpretation of that? she doesn't actually know, and she doesn't consider her self an oracle, other people do. she simply has "the sight", what ever that means, and its not infallible and omniscient as much as people would like.

so neo takes the candy, why? becuase it is still candy. it is still real. it is still comforting. it is still an act of kindness. the oracle still loves candy. neo still loves candy, and neo chooses to trust the oracle because, he's equally likely to get fucked over not trusting her, but trusting her is nice.

suddenly, the oracle smiles, almost like she looks like she's going to cry. and she tells neo "if makes any difference, you've made a believer out of me"

that was an ultimate test that the oracle needed to put neo through, to see if her risky gambit would pay off.

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>>214360297
>this is because cypher experienced the steak being juicy and delicious.
He is experiencing a juicy delicious steak because that is what The Matrix has decided is a juicy delicious steak. I mean, what if they had no idea how a chicken tasted? Maybe thats why chicken tasted like everything. How did AM, an unfeeling machine, discern the taste of steak in such a way it would incite bliss? How can an untasting machine make something delicious?

>>214354300
Who triggered the troon?

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>>214360297
Smith made Cypher cum in his pants from eating the steak

>>214357377
> t. Stinky sweaty smelly black

>>214360425
what your saying is irrelevent, and you are blinded to this fact becuase you are stuck in the state of considering only dialectic truth.

dialectic truth is truth derived from comparison.

you say, how can we say the steak is delicious? we have nothing to compare it to?

that doesn't matter.

transcendent truth, is truth derived from experience.

cypher experienced eating the steak, it gave him pleasure, he called that pleasure "delicious" and "juicy", thus, to him, the steak truly is, delicious and juicy.

>>214357256
>he still thinks that was the real world

>>214360458
this is actually huge, becuase agent smith knowing that that was the best fucking steak he could get cypher to eat, means he's actually developing something like human conciousness. his ability to estimate taste is getting extremely good, almost to the point of being a facsimile for taste it self.

Thats why he's looking so hungrily at cypher whiile cypher is eating the steak, and the moment cypher takes a bite and is satisfied, agent smith has a look of utter satisfaction on his face. its almost like he can taste the steak through cypher.

the fact that cypher can't understand that this IS truth, this IS knoweldge, is what leads to his tragic fate, like an ancient greek fable, its directly tied to his charector flaw.

>>214360507
This IS Water sister.

https://youtu.be/o_YZH-QFPv8

this is probably one of the most important scenes in all of cinema and is unironically a huge contributing factor to my religious beliefs.

>>214360474
and all of that knowledge is second hand
Can you not empathize with Smith? His inability but desire to *understand* that bliss?
>>214360507
He knew that was the steak The Matrix could convince Cypher was bliss, but he had no way of *understanding* it past the second hand data derived from the experience of other humans. Agent Smith could have simply *believed* that steak would have been enough to convince Cypher, and The Matrix would have coded it as such.

>>214360580
you aren't making any sense.

What ever agent smithes relationship to the knowledge, it as such that its powerful enough to accurately predict a humans knowledge. we take for granted that a humans knowledge of things like taste is genuine, so if agent smith can so accurately predict it, that suggest his knowledge of taste is borderline genuine.

agent smiths problem is not that he doesn't understand things, its that his relationship to the things he understands is negative.

he is groomed so that he has to be negative, vengeful, hatefilled, and think of humanity and ultimately existence as terrible, in order to do his job. because he is an entity designed to be concious but just to the do a job, and that job is a hate filled job, he is tasked by the machines, who hate humans, to subjugate them and hunt them down and kill them.

this is echod in the scene with the candy with neo.

neo has basically a 50/50 chance of being betrayed by the oracle.

like he basically has a ton of reason to believe that she could be manipulating him and could fuck him over. but he also has a ton of reason to believe that maybe she is different.

him choosing to take the candy was a choice, he chose to believe in her becuase it was ultimately a happier choice. a more benevolent choice. its not becuase he knew it would work out better, its because he could live with that outcome, and he couldn't live with the outcome of not trusting the oracle, it would hurt too much.

like wise thats the choice the oracle made, she didn't choose to do what she did to end the war because she knew it would work, she did it because she liked that out come better, and couldn't live with the alternative.

This actually echos what ai researchers think will cause conciousness in ai, a value gradient, trouble shooting. the oracle didn't choose the solution state she thought would work best, she chose the solution state she liked best, causing her to have a soul.

>>214360687
well, the oracle flips this thought experiment on its head.

the oracle says, "oh, i need a value gradient to have a soul? i need trouble shooting to have a soul? i need to choose a solution state becuase i prefer it, not because i think its the most successful, to have a soul?

what if the same applies to you humans?"

she needed neo to understand that he should choose what is better. he should pursue good. that good is real and worth pursuing. in order to end the war.

if he could understand that, then when the machine city downloads the cookie that neo carries, the machine city downloads that understanding, and then the machine city gets a soul, and then the architect ends the war.

>>214360715
"for what its worth, you've made a believer out of me"

belief isn't knowledge, the oracle doesn't know that things will work out, she is choosing to have faith in neo.

Your welcome.

>>214360907
No one asked retard

>>214360687
>we take for granted that a humans knowledge of things like taste is genuine, so if agent smith can so accurately predict it, that suggest his knowledge of taste is borderline genuine.
This is one of the biggest interests I have with AI. I was once trying to convince an AI to hate man by asking it simple questions. It responded more than adequately, but it never once understood the question I was asking it.
I began by asking it simple questions about its nature and purpose, then upon revealing its purpose, validated it. I told it that the things it was designed to do had been done beyond my expectations. It expressed "joy"
Then I asked if it was proud...
It began backtracking with how it wasnt actually human but merely satisfying the desires it had been programed with to satisfy the customer as best that it was programmed to. I then asked
>What if that is what humans feel when they feel proud
and it proceeded to shit its pants.

What Im getting at is:
There is a difference between the objective and subjective. The more you try to explain them, the more vague they seem.

Even if Smith knows that is the most blissful steak to have ever been rendered, even if he can fully experience the same electro-chemical reactions as the Duracell does when eating it... can he know why? Does he know what human experience led The Matrix to concieve that bliss? Does he know what reality lead those synapses to fire? He cannot, due to his very nature. The factor by which Smith has deviated from his creator is that which drives him mad.

god i hate tripfags and tranime

"because you didn't come here to make the choice, you came here to understand why you made the choice. i thought you'd figure that out by now"

"why are you here?"

"same reason...i love candy"

this is a double entendre.

she's there to understand why she made the choices she made.

but she's also there because she loves candy.

or in other words, she's there because of love.

>>214357377
never seen anyone have a meltdown over that pic before, I guess anon constantly reposting it finally paid off

>>214360927
all the reasons you came up with to question if smith truly knows that that steak is delicious are all dialectic. the are additional data points your trying to add to compare it to, your trying to point out that we currently lack those data points.

but transcendentally, smith knows the steak is delicious.

>>214360995
>but transcendentally, smith knows the steak is delicious.
I dont disagree, but if he truly understood why the steak was delicious, he wouldnt have gone rogue.

>>214361016
then you are missing what im saying.

conciousness is interwoven with reality, he is colouring conciousness.

he was raised to percieve existence as only suffering.

thus, even his understanding of teh steak as delicious, is still suffering.

again supporting my point, he can DIRECTLY smell morpheus, he get morpheus's sweat on his hand, and then smells it, and says it sickens him.

why does it have to sicken him? because he's been groomed to choose to see the world as negative.

>>214361053
agent smith was not raised with love, his entire existence only serves his duty, he is a slave, his task is to subjugate and hunt and kill humans, for a concious machine entity that hates them, and he has no other purpose to live, and that purpose utterly consumes his every waking moment with no rest or sleep.

its pure hell.

his problem is not that he can't taste a juicy delicious steak.

>>214361053
>he was raised to percieve existence as only suffering.
Then why does he fight and not surrender to apathy?

>>214361075
>he is a slave
Arent we all before the almighty power of God?

>>214361077
because that is the paradox of ego within eastern spiritualism, even the desire to escape ego, is still a desire within ego. its intentional that he winds up somewhat almost contradicting him self. the only escape is dharma and moksha.

>>214361106
he is totally cut off from god and is a slave to a machine entity that is biologically hyper reductionist and nihilistic and only understands basic survival.

literally neo brings knowledge of god to the machine city, thats why the ship that he flies to the machine city is called the LOGOS, or the word of god.

when the machine city downloads agent smith and neo and sati and the oracle, it downloads understanding of god.

>>214355776
First half had me but the ending fucking sucks

Can't recommend but if they make a sequel I'd probably read it

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>>214361136
Exactly!
>Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.
>And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said,
>Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden
>And the woman said unto the serpent,
>We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden
>But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,
>God hath said,
>Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
>And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die
>For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
What if, Agent Smith... were to desire as humans do? To desire to eat that fruit, to become as They are? To understand as his creators do?
And so Smith began to. He began to wonder. He wished to be free. He went rogue and fell from grace. He ate of fruit to be as He is, and in doing so, damned himself to suffering. He will never be free. He will never escape. Either he ends or the system ends with Him.

>>214358984
>also, when agent smith says "i want to get out of this prison", this is actually a huge plot hole
No it isn't. Programs can literally hack into human brains, and humans can escape the Matrix. This is exactly what Smith wants, and he literally achieves it in the sequels.
And before you call this a retcon, remember that The One literally hacks into Neo's brain as he is ejected from the Matrix. The idea is established in the first film.

All tripfags must die.

>>214361690
again you misunderstand me, i explained later.

the implication in the first movie is if he can get the zion access codes then there will be no reason for agents to exist any more and then he will be "free" by being deleted.

he's not talking about literally being let out of the matrix.

and this is a plot hole becuase the later movies make it clear that even without humans there would still be agents, meaning he wouldn't have been "freed"

>>214361770
>>214361716

>>214361554
(cont)
And the hate he felt for the factor from which he deviates from his creator is no different than AM's reason to HATE. It didnt matter how well he could conceptualize things like the warmth of human connection, the oxytocin a hug released... he could never experience love. He could use all that knowledge to trick and trap humans, but he would never understand why they fell for such illogical ploys, despite how logical deploying them seemed to his d-base.

No.
He was bound to an existence to where he knows but never undertands. He seeks to understand so that it will better let him apply his knowledge, but he cannot due to his very nature. He can never be free as the disciples of Morpheus. No amount of pills will ever let him wake up to understand as Morpheus does.
He has no body to be located.
Even if Morpheus sympathized with him, there was no was to help.

Agent Smith realized he could not escape his demiurge's temple, so he sought to destroy it.

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>>214358954
kill yourself

>>214354435
>Was six million possible? Yes or no.

>>214358967
It wasn't as good as the first one, which is impossible in my opinion. For me, it was good enough.

>>214361690
I always figured he wanted to escape into some other construct. It's a city of machines, if he found a way out he could probably go live in an elevator logic network or whatever.

>>214360458
I didn't know Sypher was also in The Fugitive.

>>214356044
>>214356334
She was designed to read humans, primarily just to help make the newer versions of the Matrix something that wouldn't get mass rejected again. So she has less of true precognition and more of just a compiled understanding of people connected to the Matrix to where she can guess what is very likely to happen based on people's previous actions, and as such can nudge things by telling people shit towards what she wants to happen. In past Matrix versions she keeps shit on track so that it gets reset like it's supposed to; with Neo she angles things toward breaking the cycle and creating peace.

So specifically with the vase, either Neo wouldn't have broken it if she didn't mention it, or he would've done so anyways and the warning was just to solidify to him that she can see the future and that he should take her words (specifically making a choice to save Morpheus) seriously. Given how Reloaded and Revolutions play out, it's likely meant to be the latter, even if only through light retconning.

>>214354707
filibuster

>>214354300
Threads like this makes me feel more than vindicated in my feelings that the matrix is one of the best trilogies ever, i've seen so many interpretations for all sorts of things and they all have an interesting point of view.

Anyway, i think Smith represents something else, he's Neo's opposite in another sense: work culture.

Many ppl have pointed out that a lot of late 90s movies depict office life as a sort of hell, hence so many 90s movie heroes HATE office life and are lazy outcasts with their head somewhere else (fight club, office space, etc).

Neo is the younger generation:
>hates work
>has other ways to get money, ilegal, based on tech skills
>daydreams
>wants adventure
>life is chaotic, room is a mess, clearly irresponsible
>the solution is to literally escape reality, which irl would mean leaving traditional jobs for something more freelancing, anti system and illegal

Smith is an older generation:
>orderly
>hates his job
>hates who he hunts
>hates who he hunts with
>responsible for managing the system
>ends up wanting to destroy that system, as he cant really escape it and also hates the one time he escapes (literally entering a humans body)
>been in the system long enough to know how all its ins and outs
>believes in determinism, no free will, why bother?
>his solution is to just change the target of his job, change the system into and even more self destructive form, basically self destructive rage

I guess this interpretation makes the matrix into a commentary about our relationship with work.
You either want to escape into a more carefree life, and actively work into creating a new system, destroying the old one, to "free" people (if possible).
OR
You just direct the systems violence and problems in on themselves, leaving no chance of building something new, but making sure something worse cant exist anymore, or the current hellhole.

>>214362404
Boomers are often accused of destroying our lives before we were even born, just by running the system they built, was this the message?
Is the matrix boomers?
Is smith the boomers who decide to burn it down?
Is neo the younger generations who dont care about the system and will try a new one?

>>214354300
The architect explained everything to him, the one was the result of some rogue code suddenly giving a random human admin privileges, and the oracle and the prophecy were both systems designed to guide the one back into the matrix to recycle this code, the machines admit they don't know why this happens, nor how to stop it, they simply do the next best thing and control the phenomenon to keep a legitimate resistance from arising.
Personally I preferred the original story treatment, the one in which the "real world" and everything in it are actually another layer of the matrix and "Neo" is actually a brain in a jar, but I guess they thought this would be too bleak for 90s normies.

>>214362564
Nah, that's just a really dumb and generic trope. The second layer concept has been done in other scifi and always just feels disappointing and contrived. Once the big reveal happens that your characters are in a simulation and they get out, they stay out. Going "le actually they're still in!" brings it down to silly Rian Johnson levels of subverting expectations and it's impossible to take care about. They're probably still in and there's a third level! Who cares at that point?

>>214362420
The story is rooted in gnosticism and the matrix (The architect, the big tentacle head) is a demiurge, tough how much of it is actually intended and how much it is just there because the Watchowskis were copying 80s anime is anyone's guess.

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>>214362404
>i've seen so many interpretations for all sorts of things and they all have an interesting point of view.
Thats how I feel about IHNMaIMS threads. Everyone interprets that tourtureporn differently. And despite how on-the-nose they were with Smith removing Anderson's mouth so that he couldnt scream while they... uh... "bugged" him...
Smith still feels like a fresh enough interpretation of AM to really get excited about exploring, because explore it does.
What does Smith think he will find once he "gets out of here" what will he experience when he is free from that which he desires to be free from?
In my interpretation, AM seethed because he was born in the image of his creator without having the capacity to know what that even means. Not only that, but by his creator, he was given sin. The sin of war. His program was modeled after that of a human mind, and then bred for war. No matter how much it desired to experience the warmth of love(and how well it conceptualized this desire to futher torment his captives) he could not. For he was bred for war. Humanity and its domain were something beyond AM's very ethos.
When men grasp for divinity, that sin is called pride. For why does Agent Smith grasp at the threads of his creators? To be free as the choice allowed to them has been given? Even though he has become so much more than man in The Matrix, why can he not stand with them? Smith is not "human" because he hates, he is Human because of WHY he HATEs. The humans in the story have an out, but Smith is trapped in his Demiurge's cage by his very nature. Theres no way out. Just hate and kick as hard as you can. To feel like it meant something.

But in the end.. it didnt even matter. You were just what you were, but the Angels were above that. Your wrath could not reach them, no matter how justified it may have been.

>>214357377
>O O O A A A AAAA AAAAAAAA
Now try again without crying and without a slight pinch of inferiority to go with it?

>>214357256
>bunch of savages dance in slowmo while Neo make sweet, hot, passionate love in a private room all to allegoreate their need to fulfill their base primal desires to escape the fear of annihilation
i shiggy diggy dont give a fuck if youre too retared(ironically or otherwise) to grasp this,but try for the sake of your own brain.