The villain protagonist John (archetypal everyman European name, John Q. Public, like fellow reactionary European moralist "John Doe" from Se7en) Kramer/Jigsaw: a charismatic cult leader, highly intelligent, bitterly resentful, morally self-righteous, reactionary, control freak, social Darwinist/eugenicist and hypocritical sadistic psychopath of German ethnic origin.The villain protagonist in the second half of the Saw series (2007-2010) is detective turned sociopathic Jigsaw apprentice Mark Hoffman, another ethnic German.The ageing Kramer is diagnosed with the Walter White/Walt Kowalski special: terminal cancer (a metaphor for "inevitable racial decline and death") and proceeds to go on a pronged killing spree (commit genocide), with a bathroom (traditionally a place of cleansing, "shower" parallels, but also a place of filth and waste removal) being the series' central location (incidentally, the central location of Saw 2 is the "nerve gas house").
>>214753824The five most prominent ethnic European characters in Saw 1 are archetypes of societal corruption. They are morally compromised at best, evil at worst and evil more often than not:Kramer (the Jigsaw killer)Dr. Gordon (arrogant, largely absent and emotionally unavailable as a husband and father, fails to protect his family, meets an East Asian student doctor in a hotel room for an affair, future Jigsaw apprentice with shades of Dr. Mengele)Adam (dirtbag freelance photographer, dies in the bathroom)Amanda (heroin addict, cutter, future Jigsaw apprentice and surrogate daughter)Zep (subservient and downtrodden hospital orderly, deranged psychopath, dies in the bathroom)Notably, Kramer never recruits a non-European apprentice. He and his apprentices intimidate their victims with a grotesque white doll and dress up in (decidedly non-kosher) pig costumes when kidnapping them; a nod to their shared colour, animalistic brutality and moral corruption.By radical contrast, the multiracial and sex egalitarian police are framed as America's heroes in opposition to patriarchal ethnic European moral degeneracy and evil; the three most prominent in Saw 1 being detective Tapp (African, meticulous, obsessively devoted to bringing Jigsaw down, self-sacrificial, saves Dr. Gordon’s all-American family from Zep, played by Danny Glover of Lethal Weapon and Predator 2 hero cop fame), detective Sing (Chinese) and detective Kerry (tough, no-nonsense, the voice of reason, played by a Jewish woman).More policemen are added in the 2nd film to replace Jigsaw victims Tapp and Sing: officer Rigg (African, idealistic hero cop) and detective Matthews (European, bad father, adulterer, pig cop, the first unambiguously European-American cop and the first seriously corrupt cop). The second major European male cop we're introduced to is the aforementioned detective Hoffman in Saw 3.
>>214753840In this regard and others, Saw is similar to "Nazi exploitation films" like Eli Roth's Hostel and The Human Centipede.Saw also shares strong thematic parallels with Breaking Bad, an example of this being that Art Blank and Declan (minor characters and business partners of Jigsaw and Heisenberg respectively) are played by the same actor. Did they HAVE to cast Louis Ferreira in that seemingly insignificant role? It's there to make the connection subconsciously: Jigsaw and Heisenberg represent the same archetypes ("the regular white man", "the evil white man", "Hitler", "Satan"). Just as Walter White and Jack Torrance represent the same archetypes.Let's say John Kramer had instead been named John Finkelstein or John Goldberg. Would that fact have been seen as unremarkable by Western critics? Would the film have ever been distributed by a "big six" Hollywood studio? If it had been made it would have been labelled "anti-Jewish hate propaganda", with potentially significant career and social repercussions for those involved in its production. By contrast, Hollywood is more than happy to give the green light to the production and distribution of ethnocidal anti-European hate propaganda.
>>214753824The overall theme is that JIGSAW IS THE WORST HORROR MOVIE VILLAIN OF ALL TIME.
>>214753891Hoffman was worse, he went as far as to kill racists for being racist lmaoAmanda was the best
ChatGPT said:The Saw films can definitely be read through a racial lens, but most of what you’re pointing to is probably coincidence rather than intent. James Wan and Leigh Whannell weren’t setting out to make a racial allegory; they’ve always said the series was about morality, punishment, survival, and control, not eugenics or “racial decline.” Tobin Bell and Cary Elwes were cast because they could bring weight to a tiny indie project, not because of ethnic symbolism.The cops aren’t consistently heroic either—Tapp is obsessive to the point of destruction, Matthews is corrupt and abusive, Hoffman becomes a sadist. Even Rigg, one of the most sympathetic, is broken by Jigsaw’s games. The series steadily erodes the idea of law enforcement as the moral center.Yes, if Kramer had been given a recognizably Jewish name, Hollywood would have treated it as antisemitic and critics would have latched onto that. But that doesn’t mean Saw is “anti-European hate propaganda.” The simpler explanation is that villains in American horror are often written as flawed white men because that’s the cultural default, just as Jigsaw’s “fallen everyman” arc fits into a long tradition that includes Walter White and Jack Torrance.So while it’s interesting to look at the racial undertones, the stronger throughline of Saw is corruption, hypocrisy, and the destructive obsession with control—not an ethnocidal agenda.
>>214753891Jigsaw is not a villain at allwouldn't even be charged in court
>>214753824I haven't seen any of these movies cause they look boring as fuck, but it's a movie series about serial killers and the historical reality is that most serial killers are rando white dudes. It's kinda like you're asking why movies about ghetto violence is mostly black and Hispanic people...
>>214754474Only serial killers are white cause black killers just get caught before they become serial
>>214754528There ya go, thread solved.
>>214753882I think most of this analysis is pseudo intellectual bullshit (not to sound like Steve Schirripa) but I really liked the Breaking Bad comparison. But I raise you one better, 9/11. The aftermath of 9/11 coincided with the rise of both the "Torture Porn" genre and The Golden Age of Television (specifically the anti-hero). The former being engrained in the American subconscious with HD footage and photos of a mass murder that became ubiquitous, paralleled only perhaps by the Vietnam footage that no doubt caused the popularity of works like Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Hills Have Eyes. The audience became not just sadomasochistic, but morally gray because of Hurricane Katrina, the lack of evidence for WMDs, and real-world torture the USA committed at Abu Ghraib. Faith in both saviors and justice waned and the need for Jungian shadow self-determination was no doubt portrayed by Tony Soprano (who mentions Islamic terrorism in season 6), Walter White (Osama Bin Laden is mentioned by name in Gliding Over All), Lost, and House of Cards (those two should need no explanation)
>>214754310By this logic Hitler isn't a murderer because he "technically never killed anyone"
>>214755034Hitler is not a murderer, he was a war criminal and kinda a crazy drug addict
>>214755066He killed 6 million Jews.
>>214755096He did it? All by himself? Each one? Don't think soOrdering someone to kill someone is just as bad as doing it yourself, but its not the same
>>214755066Or was he?
>>214755439I saw video from the berlin olympics with him tewaking out on drugs, so yes he was a drug addict
>>214755424>t. Nazi
Don't care. Cecilia deserve a kino of her own
>>214753824is that JigC? classic rockerts JigC?
Conceptually I really think no one beats him.
>>214755712You're not wrong.
>>214755570Ywnbaw
>>214755906He is such a great character.
