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Nigga what happened to them cartoons? That shit used to be off the chain!
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>>214987698
People stopped watching them
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>>214987698
I too saw this on reddit.
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>>214987752
You say that with pride for some reason.
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>>214987698
Titan AE killed off Bluth which meant Disney no longer had competition and after Atlantis and Treasure Planet flopped, they had no incentive to continue to try.
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>>214987760
He assumed it, and he's probably right.
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>>214987728
Those movies end up being watched hundreds, if not thousands of times a year. The DVDs are worn out by kids.
Streaming ruined that because the audience for those films only watch youtube kids these days.
>>
>some reason

two of those movies were huge bombs.
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>>214987776
This is 100% it. Everyone associated with Disney in the 90s will burn in the afterlife for the time and effort they spent in crushing Don Bluth and ruining animation forever
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>>214987698
>for some reason

It's called a few 2d projects failing while green fucking ogre succeeding, making everyone hop on godawful 3d.
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>>214987698
advances in computer technology allowed singular pioneers in their fields to achieve a level of artistic control normally not afforded to creatives
comes in cycles (we're coming out of a low right now (AI is the new technology))
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>>214987698
To make skilled 2d animation companies have to hire and keep talents. For 3d the talent needed is in modeling and after thats done you can boot them off and send the work off shore.
Also 2d takes time and investors demand profit asap
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>Disney will make a live action Treasure Planet within the next 5 years
Oh God. They're going to fuck it to death.
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>>214987698
Times change. Why not pine for the animation styles of Beauty and the Beast, or Snow White, or Bambi? You may cringe at Adventure Time, or Gravity Falls, or Steven Universe, but they're all way more popular than Anastasia ever was. Hell, maybe your dad thinks picrel is cringe compared to what he watched when he was a kid, in the same way you think blob smiles are cringe today.
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>>214987698
They are just not as profitable anymore
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>>214987962
Nice try, but animation provably got worse over the past 20 years.
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>>214987962
>You may cringe at Adventure Time, or Gravity Falls, or Steven Universe, but they're all way more popular than Anastasia ever was

Those all look like dogshit. Anastasia looks amazing, even if the writing is too silly and juvenile even for a children's fantasy.

No one has ever watched any post 2010 shows because they are beautiful, they are universally ugly, disgusting Calarts trash.
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>>214987962
>they're all way more popular than Anastasia ever was.
Was Anastasia popular at all? For me it's in the list of "obscure Disney movies"...
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>>214987962
>televised cartoons look worse than theatrical ones
Yeah, no shit, but even compared to televised cartoons of the older era, the newer ones look like shit. Spongebob and Ed, Edd, n Eddy look a million times better than fucking Adventure Time. I'll give you that AT and Gravity Falls look on par with Dexter's Lab and Angry Beavers tho.
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>>214987698
the actual explanation, if anyone's seriously interested.
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>>214987698
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>>214987991
He's right, yanno? because he isnt talking about animation quality, but generational preferences and how they change, and how it doesnt matter if something looks pretty when the story is boring or by the numbers.
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>>214988015
Anastasia isn't a Disney movie. It was 20th Century Fox/Don Bluth. I guess that technically makes it a Disney movie now, but it wasn't on release.
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>>214988040
Oh my bad, maybe that's why it's obscure lol
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>>214988025
this is similar to the reason why a movie like Team America: World Police wound up costing $32 million in 2004 dollars, why the netflix Dark Crystal show was so expensive etc.

>who has specialist art skills? is it like 6 people in the world who worked on one of 3 different shows and movies that became iconic and retained those skills?
>haha how much do you we to pay them to train the staff they need to do another production?
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>>214988057
Ironically, it was Don Bluth's most successful film despite not being his most well-known work.
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>>214987698
They can still be good.
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>>214988025
Some austrian painter is laughing in Hell. Anyway, this is part of the problem but there is more, like the change from 2D to 3D, that was no only seen as the future but also expected to become cheaper with time (spoiler: it didn't) and the whole woke/DEI push that retired a lot of competent white men and swaped them with DEIs, nepos and cali artists that know shit about fuck.
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>>214988148
I hate this movie because my algorithm kept recommending me videos of vtubers wetting their pants over that wolf guy.
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>>214987962
Anastasia was my first crush.
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>>214988029
>but generational preferences and how they change
So your argument is that zoomers and betas (you will never be known as gen alpha lmao) just like shit animation? Pretty weak, all things considered.
Also don't pretend to be someone else mate.
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>>214987799
To be fair, Treasure Planet had to contend with Harry Potter and Lilo and Stitch when it came out.
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>>214988460
And more importanlty, Titan A.E. lmao
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>>214987920
Robot will be voiced by Akwafina.
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>>214988233
mostly its not wanting to train for years to do a job that barely pays more than minimum wage and is less consistently employed than working at Target. similar to why Westerners don't grow up wanting to work in manufacturing.
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>>214987698
I know the two reasons:
>talent dried up
>costs went up

On the first, the issue became that the usual suspects got involved in not just Disney but animation studios in general, and began gate-keeping. They promoted the idea that if you aren't following their specific style, you're not a good animator or designer. This was the beginning of the CalArts catastrophe that stole any sense of uniqueness or identity from western animation. Literally, the ego of a few talentless hacks but who had the right connections resulted in a massive filter where only sycophants and other connected but useless individuals could flourish.

On the second, because costs of living went up and the amount of money that studios made also went up, you'd have thought that there would've been an equilibrium maintained, however the profits were being siphoned off in greater amounts by shareholders and studio execs. They refused to take a hit in their profits to fairly pay their animators, so the good animators went elsewhere or just gave up and found different jobs for better pay. This led to jobs moving to Asia instead, where they could exploit cheap labour. It gutted western animation studios because then those taking the money decided that it was better for them to use near-sweatshop labour for animation than to pay a fair wage to natives.
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>>214987962
>Hell, maybe your dad thinks picrel is cringe compared to what he watched when he was a kid, in the same way you think blob smiles are cringe today.

My dad was an actual baby boomer who retired in his 40s. He cringed at anime and loved stuff like Looney Tunes and Droopy Dog. He also watched Mummies Alive and Sonic Underground and unironically enjoyed them. He thought the Batman Beyond theme song sounded weird. We saw Tarzan in theaters back in '99 with his girlfriend and her kids. He even indulged me when I asked to go see the Powerpuff Girls movie.

I miss him. He'd be in his early 70s now.
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>>214988233
>like the change from 2D to 3D, that was no only seen as the future but also expected to become cheaper with time (spoiler: it didn't)
don't kid yourself, 3D is way cheaper when done right. it also is less risky because individual animators are not important as everyone uses the same models. the skills are all technical, not creative, so the workers are more replacable. Movies like the early Pixar's could easily be produced on a five figure budget with today's technology if you exclude the writing, marketing etc.

Studio Brinkedo have produced full length movies in that way - they were shit, true, but they are a proof of concept. And that was before AI, which nowadays can take care of animation and modeling.
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>>214987698
Anime and manga happened and kicked whyteys ass.
>>
One of the weakest DreamWorks movies and one of the weakest scripts by John Logan
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>>214987962
lol masterful bait.

This is bait, right?
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>>214988626
>Anime and manga happened
Anime and manga merely filled the niche after Western animation imploded. It's like lauding the American economy after WW2 because it was the only one still standing.
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>>214988563
boring post
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>>214988233
3D is very cheap if you use it right. the problem is big studios pushing for big special effects, photorealistic backgrounds and water, IMAX resolution etc even if those things do no actually improve the movie and even turn it into slop.
>>
Titan A.E. flopped because it's a mediocre movie that premiered 1 week before a superior animation movie
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OP faggot. copy paste this shit from hhredit, and then made a thread here with some buzz words.

And homosexuals here will claim that this place is not a normie dead censored cesspool where normans come to be edgy.
Thank god we have oldfagg chan where faggs like OP get banned on the spot.
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>>214988025
idk about that. there are mills of good drawfags in china etc
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>>214988773
Honestly I just think Titan AE's premise was too depressing. No one in the year 1999 wanted to see the Earth getting blown the fuck up in the first five minutes people were way more optimistic.
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>>214988773
what chan?
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>>214987962
>>214987698
Traditional animation is time-consuming, therefore its also expensive because even if you pay minimum wage to your animators, you still have to hire an army of them for 2 years. Sleeping Beauty nearly bankrupted Disney Studios back in the day.
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>the only 2D animation movie directed by the man who later directed The Incredibles, Ratatouille, and Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol
It's something special
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It's a fine movie, but it isn't as entertaining as the previous movies directed by that duo (The Great Mouse Detective, The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules)
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>>214989155
Am I weird for thinking there's an obscene amount of sexual tension in this picture?
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>>214989155
I didn't watch it because:
- Most of the characters are furries, they look ugly, and I don't like it when humans are mixed with talking animals
- I don't like space operas
- Furries in space seem weird and out of place
- The main human character looks too generic
- I find treasure hunt stories boring

>>214989371
Yeah, sorry. Your mind has been warped by those idiots who feel the need to sexualize any friendly interaction between men.
>>
Alan Menken is singularly responsible for the Disney Renaissance period
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>>214989399
>This is a furry according to anon.
>>
Interesting answer to the Disney Renaissance movies by a young DreamWorks.... but I would still rather watch the Disney Renaissance movies instead.
>>
If Japan didn't exist, people wouldn't even think about 2D animation in 2020s
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>>214987698
They stopped using brown people and started using black people.
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>>214989458
Based anon replying to trolls
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>>214989568

Not true at all. They're very rewatchable. 2D can contain more individual soul and style than boilerplate CGI.
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>>214987792
youtube kids is pure brainrot and creepy, even when its not a groomer channel. parents need to cut their kids off from that shit and just get a HDD full of old cartoons for them to enjoy.
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Unironically, Disney poisoned the well by coding all of their big movies as "girl shit", and making it so boys didn't want to watch anything that looked like that, and ended up moving over to anime instead.
They tried to course correct toward the end of the 90's, but by that point they were just making "boy movies" that looked like "girl movies", so literally no one wanted to watch them.
And then Shrek was an enormous success, and the rest is history.
>>
Remember that short-lived 2D studio founded by Spielberg/Amblin Entertainment? It was called Amblimation
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>>214987792
Disney officially stopped making traditionally animated movies like a decade before streaming took off.
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>>214989568
France does 2D animation better than Japan
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>>214989615
Then it would have been more popular.
I mean there would be always stubborn 2D animation fans, but I think Japan is pretty much the only reason why these ''What happened to Western animation? What went wrong?'' shit became a reddit-tier meme.
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>>214989710
not my point
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>>214989740
Young boys just really hate musicals and princess shit. It's not that hard.
Disney screwed themselves over by not making something to compete with Dragon Ball or Pokemon,.
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Definitely an amusing comedy. It probably helps that it was written by the duo Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio (Aladdin, Small Soldiers, Mask of El Zorro, The Curse of the Black Pearl, Dead Man's Chest)
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>>214989684
Agreed. I still don't understand why Disney treated boys like crap. They buy toys too, don't they? Aladdin was the kind of guy that girls love, rather than someone a boy might admire. Tarzan as well, incarnates the brute archetype civilized by a girl (a favorite fantasy of females). And Hercules is a bumbling fool. Maybe it's because the Disney art style is too "cute" to properly tell a story for boys, maybe it's social engineering, who knows?
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>>214987698
werent 2 of those commercial bombs?
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>>214987698
It's very simple, high quality 2D animation costs much more than 3D.
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>>214989887
Road to El Dorado for example is a good boy movie, but it was also suffering from the effect of simply looking too much like a Disney movie.
Emperor's New Groove too. I eventually really liked it, when I saw it on video, but I wasn't about to be seen going to the theater to see a Disney movie when I was ten years old.
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>>214989796
The reality is, like it or not, Disney's transition to 3D was a huge success so everyone followed it.
They got Pixar too. They got bigger and bigger. Now they are getting some minor backlash and there's Japan that has been clinging to 2D and it fits the narrative for people who are tired of 3D. That's pretty much it.
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>>214990083
that was because Pixar's 3D movies and Shrek were far less girl-coded though.
You're a six year old boy. Do you want to watch Little Mermaid or Toy Story? I know what I was watching.
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>>214987698
Bean counters, or "beaners" as i like to call them, ruin everything.
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>>214989887

Women got their claws all over Disney production. And women don't understand how to cater to boys. Female perspective is all about implanting their own brain in another body. They don't try to understand the other brain. So to them, if someone doesn't like what they came up with, it's their problem that they need to fix, this concept of different identities is, ironically, foreign to them on an innate level.

This is why the K-12 system became entirely structured towards girl-style passive learning as well.
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>>214990106
I barely watch anything
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>>214990137
You aren't a six year old boy in the mid-90's.
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>>214990157
I mean if you are complaining about western animation being more girl/female-oriented, that's not just animation, and barely anything to do with 2D/3D itself
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>>214990203
I'm just saying how it felt in the 90's or early 00's. Disney was the stuff that my sister or my female cousins were into. I liked Star Wars and Cartoon Network, and whatever anime I could get my hands on (which was mostly Pokemon and Digimon and the mangled localisation of "Cardcaptors" in those days).
I didn't like movies where people suddenly burst into song. It felt silly, and didn't make any sense to me.
>>
>"Well, folks. It looks like we're up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick"
Shrek 2 was a mistake
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>>214987698
Kids wanted CGI slop.
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>>214990402
Kids just want whatever feels cool, or is funny.
Notice how Cartoon Network stuff never went through this crisis of people tuning out because it wasn't 3D.
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>>214987698
transition to digital
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>>214990402

Kids will ACCEPT CGI slop. They don't know what's better. Really it's hard to tell until you grow up and realize how genius a lot of the 2D cartoons were. The animation was merely to hold a child's attention. The actual plots and dialogue were geared for adults.
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>same writers from The Santa Clause, Trading Places, Twins, and Kindergarten Cop
>music score by James Newton Howard
I unironically enjoy this movie
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>>214987698
Better question, when all sites became one big social media?
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>>214987698
>pay high wages to animators to put effort and style into it and waste years to make a flop
>enslave korean animators for $1 an hour to make Toy Story#42 now with more homosexuals and spend 11 months to make billions in profit
hmmm what is a company to do... hmmmm
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>>214987698
people making movies are all spoiled leftie kids that never left their homes until they were in their 30s.
you cant expect epic movies from dudes that dont have life experience and dont believe in anything.
you will have movies avout gay black trans californian men until AI takes over.
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>>214989625
recently sat with my kids and watched the original snow white and was absolutely mindblown at the quality a 100 year old cartoon delivered. i assumed my good memories of it were just through a filter of childhood but holy DAMN did the animators make those gemstones look astounding.
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>>214989934
emperors new groove is kino because there's no romantic subplot. pacha is married with kids and a baby on the way, and that's treated as just his normal, mundane life he's trying to protect. that's something you don't see very often. especially in disney flicks
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>>214987962
>muh popularity
Sir, we're talking about the quality of the animation and overall presentation, not the story or the format (e.g. slop).
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>>214990587
You say that like Toy Story wasn't expensive to make at the time, and isn't a legitimately great movie.
>>
>Jim Carrey's The Grinch
>Dude, Where's My Car?
>What Women Want
>Cast Away
>Miss Congeniality

Not very smart of Disney to release this hilarious gem against those movies. At least it sold really well on home video.
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>>214989740

It was popular, what are you talking about?
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>>214990615
Reminds me of how Nintendo wanted to hire developers that had a life outside of video games, or Miyazaki chastising his young studio staff for not having enough real world experience for informing their animation.
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>>214990781
Toy Story 1, sure
Toy Story #48213, you might have brain problems.
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>>214990839
yeah, but Toy Story at the time was successful because it was ambitious, and good, and not another singing teacups movie. They didn't just "trick the kids into eating CGI slop", and then immediately yank the quality away.
>>
I don't have a problem with CGI comedies as long as they are funny. Unfortunately, there are a bunch that just aren't funny.
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>>214990896
>at the time
when I said clearly:
>enslave korean animators for $1 an hour to make Toy Story#42
>Toy Story#42
My gripe is with bullshit neverending sequels to successful IPs, why the fuck do you even bring Toy Story ONE into the argument? Is this your American literacy and reading comprehension or are you an ESL Pajeet?
>>
>>214989694
It was short-lived because all the staff immediately got re-assigned to DreamWorks. Prince of Egypt was made by these guys.
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>>214990986
Yeah, I'm aware
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>>214990973
because the thread is about why the late 90's era of 2D animated movies failed.
It's because early 90's Disney was either singing teacup movies for girls, or Toy Story.
People weren't fooled. Toy Story was better. It had more mass appeal.
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>>214991022
and the reason the 90's quality died is that the companies found they can outsource sequels for cheap.
sorry a little bit of hyperbole was so mindbreaking.
>>
Atlantis grossed 84 million domestically. Not exactly great, but still better than Titan A.E. (only 22 million)
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>>214991094
they still dump money into shit. They just produce trash, because they have ugly souls.
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>>214991165
They both sucked. And so did Treasure Planet. They're all narratively confused messes with dumb characters and zero memorable moments. Dumbo is like a literal animated fever dream and even it feels more put-together.
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>>214988406
You can hide channels, retard.
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>>214988714
Sorry your dad molested you
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>>214988233
>Hell
*Heaven
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>>214989822
this movie kind of sucks even though i enjoy it
terrible plot full of bullshit lucky breaks, crummy music, unremarkable characters
it says a lot that 99% of people only care about it for the hot brown pussy rather than the actual movie
>>
>Ace Ventura 2 (director/writer)
>Nothing to Lose (director/writer)
>Patch Adams (writer)
>Kung Pow! Enter the Fist (director/writer)
>Barnyard (director/writer)

Steve Oedekerk is such a hack. Barnyard is a terrible CGI comedy.
>>
>>214991270
I like Atlantis even if it's not a great movie. Titan AE left me wondering why /tv/ recommends this shit.
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>>214987698
the white animators retired and the jews outsourced everything to koreans while telling the goyim that 'gosh this just isnt profitable, sorry its just business' like they always do.>>214987698
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>>214991557
The girl is fuckable.
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>>214988460
Which means they set it out to die. Why does a Disney movie need to compete with another Disney movie? Makes little sense
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>>214989458
RIP mr Arrow too soon
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>>214990820
How are they supposed to get any real world experience when they're spending every waking moment drawing child belly and chest for minimum wage?
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>>214991270
Wrong, Atlantis and Treasure Planet are both kino, KINO!
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>>214991270
Atlantis The Lost Empire is probably the coolest explorer action-adventure ever put to screen, even with the shortcomings
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>>214987920

True.
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>>214987698
Need Captain Amelia wife
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>>214987698
why dis the Japanese stop making anime like pic related?
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>>214991360
Oh look mr wholesome showing his true colors
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>>214988025
That is one of the only textbooks from college I still own. It is truly a bible for the art form.
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>>214988700
>Anime and manga merely filled the niche after Western animation imploded.
No. Western animation as a whole was the niche, anime was always the superior option. It was only due to relative isolation of America prior to the Internet that Western animation could exist because people didn't realize how much animation can be. Once the Internet introduced normalfags to anime Western animation (even if it were at its peak) was destined to collapse. Because it simply doesn't measure up.
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>>214992542
they didn't
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>>214993222
Piro still mogs and while Lodoss is a slideshow it still looks great compared to modern anime
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>>214993162
Peak Disney had some pretty top notch animation. It's just a shame they wasted it on frivolous crap.
There's nothing spiritually affirming or awesome about Disney. It's just pretty pictures, and ditties. Maybe Robin Williams doing a voice. Who the fuck cares?
>>
>>214989887
>>214990118
>I still don't understand why Disney treated boys like crap.
>Women got their claws all over Disney production.
Disney was always female coded and pre-pubescent coded. They never deviated from that, you just stopped being a boy because you grew up.
>>
>>214993447
I specifically hated Disney as a young child though.
Now I kind of get it. I get why something like Beauty and the Beast is a good movie. I get why it's a good piece of art. It's still a girl's film though.
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>>214991494
How can this guy be a hack?
https://youtu.be/mxGSRhUr9-A?si=wv7uEChsublMJVwu
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>>214987962
>Adventure Time, or Gravity Falls, or Steven Universe
i actually loved those shows. but mabel is a piece of shit cunt that kinda ruins GF for me
anyway i dug up this old webm i made of that time a disney animator did guest work on AT
>>
>>214988650
I remember thinking this sucked even as a kid.
>>
>>214993433
Basically, yeah. Even when the animation was genuinely impressive it was all sterile.

>>214993474
>I specifically hated Disney as a young child though.
I wouldn't say I hated it but i didn't give a damn about it. Disney worship is distinctly American (I'm a eurofag.) To tie it up with the reply above Disney and a lot of US cartoons are just sterile saccharine nonsense that is "goofy" and "fun for all ages." There's just no substance there. Sure, we can find specific examples of cartoons and animated movies that are good by every metric but that doesn't change the fact that the prevailing culture of Western animation, the norm and standard, was always sexless, devoid of conflict and danger and didn't resonate with any actual and real emotional states. The "conflicts2 were always one dimensional and trivial and so were the motivations of the "good guys."

Meanwhile in anime even a basic shounen or shoujo anime has actual conflict, eroticism and goals that resonate with their audience. And this goes upward when you watch anime for young adults and adults. And then on top of all of that they also go in a completely opposite direction and make a lot of just fun stuff. Western animation was never ever even approached the full potential of the medium or even tried. Anime really is for everyone because there's always a niche or genre within it that caters specifically to (you) and people like (you) while cartoons are "for everyone" which means they are for no one.
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>>214992861
i know right? lmao, only people who were molested as kids can ever truly fit in here with all the mental illness on display kek!
>>
>>214988057
>>214988015
It wasn't obscure, just less popular than aladdin,beauty and the beast, or the little mermaid.
Also probably because of the implication that it was a movie about communist Bolshevik jews on their massacre of goyim in russia.
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>>214993474
>>214993447
>>214989887
i feel like no one appreciates how hard the climax for sleeping beauty goes
>>>/wsg/5987793
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>>214987698
Communists took over
>>
Reminder that this is one of the best animation movies ever. Those redundant and bloated sequels don't change that.
>>
>>214987698
the jews happened



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