I don't see much appreciation for Altman's "The Long Goodbye." Let's change that.>semi-retarded MarloweIt might be my favourite interpretation of Marlowe. He acts like a tough guy in his monologues, but he's just a mumbling idiot in real life.
>>215033221One of the last good noirs.
I hate this movie as a fan of the novel. Its so slipshod and unfocused. I understand thats what people like about it but to shove the material aside for an incomplete sketch about the marlowe character that veers wildly in tone is a waste. The novel itself is a comment and criticism on the life and values espounded in these detective novels but altman doesnt give a shit about that. He at one point focuses on dogs fucking each other for 20 seconds which tells you all you want to know about his attitude towards the material. I like the setting and generally enjoy movies set around this time in la but whole thing doesnt come together. Gould is wasted as well as I think he could make a good Marlowe but the script is shit and the character changes from scene to scene. Its sad that this is the only adaption we have as of yet.
I just don't buy Elliot Gould's acting in this. It comes across as labored and inauthentic.
>>215033221Elliott Gould is a terrible actor. He only got top bill because he is of the tribe. Same for George Segal and Steve Guttenberg.
>>215033221That's because it's a jew movie and has no value at all.
>he thought /tv/ would have an honest discussion about /tv/
>>215033867This is the most honest place on the internet.
Yeah because it's a shit movie that has nothing to do with the book.
Is this the one where Ross and Monica's dad tells the terminator to take off his clothes?
>>215033221>every other scene is Marlowe returning to that couple's houseWhy do they keep letting him in? He serves no purpose for them after bringing the husband home.
>>215034186He's their favourite neighbour.
>>215033221>There was supposed to be a scene in the movie with McQueen playing Sam Spade
>>215033473The Long Goodbye is literally Chandler’s least focused novel, and his longest. Individual sections of the novel are good, but it lacks the focus and tightness of his other novels, and is at least a hundred pages longer. As far as “dogs fucking”, that’s basically what “The Long Goodbye” is about, “dogs” fucking each other (over). The novel sort if seems like a bunch of individual things Chandler wrote that he tied together into a novel.
It's wild that the screenplay was written by the same woman who wrote The Big Sleep. You couldn't think of two more different adaptions.
>>215034372>The novel sort if seems like a bunch of individual things Chandler wrote that he tied together into a novel.That was literally Chandler's MO. Taking a couple of unrelated short stories that he published in pulp magazines and stitching them together into a novel.
>>215034372>>215034372Wasn't he coping with the death of his wife when he wrote it?
>>215034452I'm pretty sure Long Goodbye is one of his rare novels that is actually not done like that.
>>215034503it is yeah>>215033473incorrect...but valid
>>215034372I disagree. Its Marlowe (and Chandler) at his lowest point and the drudgery found the earlier novels is made all the more potent by his drunken wanderings around L.A. It is a comic novel in that regard but the tragedy and nihilism of the world is made clearer through what seems a pointless struggle by the end. I think its Chandlers mission statement and whilst Big Sleep is a tighter novel, The Long Goodbye is his opus. The dogs fucking imo is more a dig at the audience than anything else.
>>215033221>I don't see much appreciation for Altman's "The Long Goodbye."Because it's a shit movie with the worst Marlowe in screen history. Marlowe is not some broccoli-headed judenrat sauntering around like everything was promised to him 3000 years ago.
>>215033221I liked it. Not the greatest noir movie, but it captures the hazy sleaze of the 70s perfectly. Also fun seeing an early uncredited Arnie role. It's not a great marlowe adaptation, but it's best to take it as an unrelated thing, Gould plays a pretty fun character.>He's still looking for that Coury Brand catfood
For me it's the HBO show. Not pure kino but very comfy.
>The Long Goodbye>Night Moves >Chinatown The holy trinity of 70s noir.
>>215034568Chandler was basically writing about his own life and it was his own favorite. Desu I've always preferred Farewell, My Lovely over the more famous ones.
>>215034634Well 1 out of 3 ain't bad lol. What a shit decade for kino.
>>215034644>What a shit decade for kino.Said nobody, ever.
>>215034580What a shit fucking take.
Is anyone else as disappointed in the Marlowe adaptions as I am? My favourite is probably Murder My Sweet but nothing has replicated the feeling I have reading the novels. The Big Sleep is regarded as the best but its closed sets shrinks the world and the final act completely misses the point of the novel. Part of the joy or reading the novels is Marlowe driving from place to place and that time you have to get into his head space. Ive always seen Marlowe in a seperate light from noir. Noir stylistics imo is completely the wrong method for adapting his material. Noir shrinks things down to essentials whilst I think Marlowe blows things up; L.A. being a character in the novels.
>>215034691Me. I said it. I'll say it again. dreidelwood was really pretty much completely cooked around 1955-ish. All the competent jews are dead.
>>215034452>That was literally Chandler's MO. Taking a couple of unrelated short stories that he published in pulp magazines and stitching them together into a novel.Maybe that was how Chandler wrote, but most of his novels were well “tied into bows”, with details and side characters having meaning, somehow. “The Long Goodbye” is basically a whole bunch of episodes and mentioned details that have little or no consequence to the plot. Marlowe mentions having been to a certain area before, and that the area has changed, but it’s a superfluous detail that ads nothing to the plot, but which also doesn’t give enough detail to be worthwhile as an image of a time and place, or the changes over time, which Chandler novels are usually good for. The same goes for some characters.
>>215034724Stop comparing books to tv/film. It's stupid.
>>215033473>>215033582>>215033659I like Gould in some things, but he is so horribly miscast as Marlowe I find the movie unwatchable. I doesn't bug me in many things, but here specifically Marlowe should shouldbe a grisly wasp type, Elliot Gould just feels so Jewish and goofy it throws everything off.
>>215034755I can see the films as seperate entities from the books but it doesnt mean adaptions should be limited in scope or number. Novels are open to adaption I would like more adaptions until the right formula is found.
>>215034724I'm right there with you. Some books translate pretty well to the screen, but Chandler is a bit like Steinbeck or Nabokov where so much of what makes the story compelling is how things are written and described. Cannery Row is one of my favorite books, but it could never be made into a movie because almost nothing happens, it's 90% just lavish description of this one street and some weirdos who live there.
>>215034754>The ramblings of a person with iq 100The Long goodbye is Chandler's best novel by far. Just the scene in the hotel bar alone, watching the woman dive into the pool, invalidates your entire "argument".
>>215034785If it was a straight adaption of The Long Goodbye then he was miscast as it should be an older jaded person. I think he could work in something like Farewell My Lovely tho. I dont buy Dick Powell as Marlowe but I still think he gave a likable performance. Gould could work in that regard. Some people will disregard my opinion after this but I dont particuarly like Bogart in the role either.
Best Marlowe coming through...
>>215034467>Wasn't he coping with the death of his wife when he wrote it?Chandler’s wife died after “The Long Goodbye” was published, although she had been sick for a long time previously, probably when he was writing it. “Playback” was written after Chandler’s wife died, (in 1954), although it was based on a screenplay and story Chandler had written for Universal Pictures, with Chandler adapting the screenplay into a book, which was published in 1958. While “Playback” lacks some of the writing quality of Chandler’s earlier novels, it still has interesting details describing a time and a place, and certain aspects of society. “Playback” also seems sort of hopeful, whereas “The Long Goodbye” just seems to be dour. The plot of “Playback” is also neatly tied up, although maybe a bit lazily.
Complaining that Gould doesn't act like Marlowe in an "heretical" adaption like this that changes nearly everything from the book seems the most misguided criticism you could make. His performance is legendary and perfect for the movie it's in.
>>215034910>His performance is legendary and perfect for the movie it's in.Based retarded Marlowe appreciator. Gould was perfect in this role and everyone stating otherwise is an imbecile.
>>215034724Chandler was good at describing psychology. Chandler was also good at describing a time and place, so that you can understand what the period setting was like, and compare and contrast that to today. Details like elevator attendants, automatic elevators, cigarette stands in building lobbies, what jail is and was like, etc.
>>215034910He's entertaining in a way, but feels so unlike Marlowe that I think the whole thing would have worked better if they just made a few more random changes, given it a different title and released it as a spoof.
>>215034953I always thought Marlowe was tough in his own mind, but kinda mild in real life. The Long Goodbye kinda portrays him in such a way. The stuff he mumbles under his breath - that's what he thought, but couldn't articulate properly.
>>215034972Half the books are just him getting beaten up by random people.
>>215034953It is a spoof you goddamn child. There was a time around 2000 when education had deteriorated to such a low level people don't recognize a clown anymore if there isn't a subtitle telling them "this is a clown". Sickening
>>215034993That is life though. In a metaphorical sense anyway.
>>215034972>>215035024That's nice, I'd still rather have someone not as goofy and Jewish playing even a spoof of Marlowe. I don't think any adaptation has been great, but Gould's is by far the worst. If you liked it though, more power to you.
>>215035078Your problem is you're taking Marlowe too seriously.
>>215035078>If you liked itYou probably ingest baby foreskins subcutaneously.
>>215035133Not too serious, just not so damned Jewy. It feels like a totally different character. >>215035136Sorry, not Jewish. I thought that was established already.
>>215033221I feel like the trick to loving this movie is not having read the book. I have>>215033221n't read it and I think it's brilliant
>>215033879It really isn't. People are just rude and contrarian opinions reign supreme but that isn't honesty.
>>215035155The whole point of Gould in the role is that he is cast against type.
>>215035163OP here. I read the book, but still appreciate that Altman did something different kek
>>215034580Oddly (or maybe not) it reminds me of what they did to Spike in the recent(ish) Cowboy Bebop remake, and Han and Luke in the sequel trilogy. Take a cool, masculine, white (or at least whitish) character and turn him into a sad sack.>>215035024>It is a spoofThe definitions are a bit loose, but a spoof is something like The Naked Gun, whereas this is a "straight" neo-noir with satirical elements. Regardless, "it's just a spoof/satire" has become a catch-all defence for anything that portrays whites negatively (so pretty much everything).>You think this is anti-white? It's just a joke, goy!
>>215034452No wonder I remember almost nothing from anything he wrote. Kind of annoying.
>>215035325You mean SPIIIIKE SEEEGAAAL?
>>215035400Spike Seagull? Yes.
>>215035325>cowboy bepop live action show and star wars watcherOpinions discarded
>>215035486That's fair, though I only watched the first for video-making purposes, and the sequels out of a sort of car-crash fascination (and the last because some girl wanted to see it). Those opinions happen to be correct, though, discarded or no. Jews *love* to do this to cool/heroic white characters, whether it's in something artsy (or pseudo-artsy) or in absolute slop.
>>215035546>Comparing Star Wars and Cowboy Bebop to the long goodbye>not understanding the fundamental difference between a 70s comedy and a 2020s corporate product>"it's fair to discard the opinions, but they are valid"You are not intelligent.
>>215035546Altman is more or less the opposite of a Jewish person.
I like this Marlowe because of how Jewish he is, being part Jew myself. I indentify more with this version of the character, he looks and acts just like me
>>215033582This was my feeling too. I really wanted to enjoy it but it was oddly unengaging.
>>215034835You’re wrong. There are so many great scenes and characters. It would work well as a 6 part 30min per episode series, each episode focusing on a different character.
The Cowboy Bebop comparison is funny because Gould in The Last Goodbye was explicitly the main inspiration for Spike Spiegel according to Watanabe himself.
Kino ending
>>215033221I disagree with Marlowe being an idiot in this film. He's naive and out of place/time. It's what I love about the movie. Marlowe is surrounded by people who are at best weird and at worst violent freaks. The whole world almost feels like a weird dream, where everyone knows just one song that is playing everywhere constantly. Marlowe is seemingly the only person who doesn't fit in here, and his naivety is not at all to his benefit, and allows his friend to take advantage of him. It is a profoundly lonely movie and one of the saddest I have ever seen.>>215034910Yeah I've never understood this complaint. It's an extremely loose adaptation of the book and you are better off thinking of them as entirely different stories.>>215035907Surprisingly this is not true. His appearance is based off of Yusaku Matsuda(also the visual inspiration of Aokiji in One Piece incidentally). In fact, everything that implies Spike is Jewish(His name, his Jewfro, his Israeli gun) are, according to people who worked on the show, essentially coincidence, just things they thought were Western and/or cool
>>215036063>Marlowe is seemingly the only person who doesn't fit in here, and his naivety is not at all to his benefit, and allows his friend to take advantage of him. It is a profoundly lonely movie and one of the saddest I have ever seen.Oh that's why I identify so much with this Marlowe
>>215035693>not noticing - or pretending not to notice - that I was only comparing them in the sense of how they treat white/whitish protagonists>describing a somewhat satirical neo-noir as a "comedy"You're either unintelligent or disingenuous.>>215035728He wasn't Jewish, but films aren't merely influenced by their directors. And I'm pretty sure the opposite of a Jew wouldn't work in the film industry. I like some of Altman's stuff, btw, but that doesn't alter the fact that TLG turns Marlowe into a has-been sad sack, i.e. not-Marlowe. Call me a simple guy (I guess that other poster already did), but "not Marlowe" is not what I want from a Marlowe film, funnily enough.
>>215036063People really want that "Spike Spiegel is Jewish" thing to be true. It's ridiculously easy to find what Watanabe said on the subject - what you've already said - but no, they've gotta keep trying to shove a jew in there too.
>>215036791Everything was made just for them. Everything is about only them.
Just fucked this shit up on Tubi. It's perfect. Felt like the writer was giving one last middle finger to Marlowe and the genre before she died
I didn't enjoy this film as much as I expected to. It wasn't as stylish or compelling as I'd been led to believe, and Gould just unequivocally does not perform well in this movie.
