>>215035120
Okay, I'll bite. How was Tywin incompetent and how was that failed to be portrayed by Charles Dance?

>>215035120
GoT writers had a massive problem distinguishing between characters and their actors in general. Masie is probably the worst case of it.

>>215035144
He was a bad dad. I think it works great, reminds me of Edward the Longshanks in Braveheart, who was also a bad dad with a shittier son.

>>215035120
It works because the characters need a reason to respect him

>>215035172
I didn't read the books. Is Tywin a fumbling idiot in the books?

>>215035144
His use of fear and terror towards anyone and anything alienated everyone, the smallfolk hated the Lannisters, and all the great houses turned on them after his death, which incidentally despite being really pathetic doesn’t quite work because Charles Dance is awesome even while being assassinated whilst shitting

>>215035210
That's not his failure. He inspires power through projection of presence is what you described, so Dance's performance fits accurately.

>>215035210
I would chalk this up to the writers failing to show people's dislike and fear of him than Dance himself being poorly cast

>>215035177
No. The dude wins the war with a quill. OP is a fag, Dance was a great cast.

>>215035250
Agree 100%.

>>215035277
His main flaw was being a shit dad and being murdered by his own son, while simultaniously psychologically driving his other two kids into incest.

>>215035277
He loses every battle and further destroys the Lannister name by cosigning the violation of guest right

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>>215035305
Are you implying that Toronaga is smarter than Tywin Lannister?

>>215035277
>Gets fired by King Aerys by failing to follow the very first law of power (Never surpass the master)
>Almost gets nuked whilst storming Kings landing with 12,000 of his men, only saved by dumb luck and Jaime
>Fails to develop a strong relationship with Robert, thus ensuring he would never become Hand of the King. Failed to use the vast debt he had over Robert to ensure he had at least a seat on the council and thus greater manoeuvrability to groom Joffrey into a good king and extend influence in the Kings court
>At the start of the war of the five kings he is completely isolated, Lannisters have ZERO allies.
>Gets his ass utterly kicked by Robb
>Gets the Reach on his side through complete DUMB luck because Stannis assassinated Renly
>Loses in battle to EDMURE TULLY
>Orchestrates the Red Wedding, ensuring the Lannister hegemony and reputation is forever tainted, not just in the North and Riverlands, but across the continent.
>Dies on the shitter because he made his most talented son hate him.
>Everything starts collapsing as soon as he dies and his terrible and stupid daughter takes over

Tywin was not a true great man like Jaehaerys and Aegon. He was a bureaucratic midwit who destroyed house Lannisters reputation forever. I would even say that Robert is far greater of a man than he is.

>>215035373
Well I mean he does order the murder of children.

>>215035144
>>215035177
>>215035277
He literally lost every single battle to a 16 year old.
Tywin was mediocre at grand strategy, but was absolutely terrible at tactical warfare. On top of that trying to make the Freys and Boltons the fall guys for the Red Wedding didn’t work, his family name will forever be tainted, Tyrion tried to warn him about that, but like the midwit that he was he didn’t listen. His greatest strength was being a brutaliser, but even that obviously backfires as no one wants to become too close to a guy who orders children to be butchered.

>>215035522
>>215035323
So you are literally saying Toranaga is superior to Tywin in every single possible way?

>>215035305
He loses every battle but wins the war which is what matters you stupid cunt

>>215035373
>Gets fired by King Aerys by failing to follow the very first law of power (Never surpass the master)
You can't blame the man for doing a good job.
Also, no one blames the Red Wedding on the Lannisters.
I disagree with your take that Tywin was a bad leader or politician, he was shrewd. However, his style of operation was heavily influenced by his character flaws sterning from his childhood experience of his father being a joke not respected by other lords. And this, as you rightfully pointed out, was his ultimate downfall.

>>215035540
By violating literally the most sacred custom in medieval society you absolute retard

>>215035590
>>215035522
What do any of these character flaws have to do with Charles Dance?

>>215035652
He feels like Charles Dance had too much aura.

Why did Tywin send Tyrion to be hand and not Kevan?

>>215035522
The reality was that the Lannister ran out of gold anyway, and getting that gold mine cost him more good will than he could afford. Also he could really do at that point is risky bridge burning shit. He might have made long term mistakes that he didn't live to see play out, and was certainly not great at leading an army, but I don't think he had any obviously better plays to make

>>215035177

He's extremely good at making people fear him. But a LOT of what he does stems from his insecurity and he's not as smart, and he sabotages himself by being a terrible father.

>>215035771
Intelligence and being a good father are pretty unrelated.

>>215035696
if Kings Landing falls he'd rather lose Tyrion and not lil bro

>>215035696
In the end Kevin proves himself to be more able than either previous Hands of his family but Tywin would never have assumed so. He's in that Ned Stark territory. No one would have assumed Ned would be an amazing and impressive ruler compared to his chad older brother Brandon.

>>215035120
Isn't that kind of the point?

>>215035120
Tywin in the books is actually quite different than Show Tywin. In the books he’s far more reserved. He rarely raises his voice and seems a bit more calmer. He’s closer to a more chill and pragmatic version of Stannis in the books. In the show he’s more commanding. Show Tywin is way better than book Tywin, and far more enjoyable. Tywin in the books doesn’t really have that much presence compared to show Tywin.

>>215035771
Tywin is implied to be a master of knowing when to use absolute brutality and when to be hands off so to speak. He's definately not the genius master mind everyone implies him to be. He's too arrogant to play the long game. It's why he gets humiliated by the Mad King. If Tywin has a LITTLE BIT of an appeaser he'd probably been there to stab the Mad King to death himself instead of Jaime ending the war and a lot of other things way sooner.

>>215035540
The war is not over.

>>215035827
Yes he put all his points into intimidate and it eventually backfired

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>>215035838

>>215035120
And who
Are you
The anon said
His shitposts still have zest

For we
Legion
Command the thread
Until it winds up dead

>>215035863
AND SO HE SEETHED
AND SO HE SEETHED
THE JANNIE OF /TV/

>>215035838
>>215035851
Based.
Never stop fighting.

>>215035851
Stark partisans are still active when he died, openly or not. So is Stannis. The country is infested by outlaws and common folk resort to religious extremism, Dorne is on the verge of rebellion. And it's not to talk about Targaryen threat lurking in the shadow or across the see. This is far from the king's peace.

>>215035742
show fanfiction, Casterly Rock's mines are still perfectly functioning in the books, and the West still has plenty of other gold mines paying taxes to the Lannisters

>>215035177

While book Tywin is far from incompetent, he's prone to severe lapses of judgment which ends up biting him in the ass, such as hiring the Brave Companions, no the Boltons, who ended up being the ones who chop off Jaime's hand. Plus he had a couple of marrying schemes against the Tyrell aimed at depowering them instead of bringing them into the fold which would have solidified Lannister rule rather than creating an enemy.

Also there's a bit of flip plop when it comes to his personality. He is a huge jerk in the books too. Tywin in the books was infamous for never smiling barring a few exceptions in his youth. The show adds a layer of humanity that his book counterpart lacks, making him more sympathetic as a result. On the other hand, this is subverted hard as that humidity makes him worse because it shows that even though he can be good and kind, he chooses not to be.

On the other hand, his treatment to Tyrion is more justified in the books. In the books, Tyrion has many more negative traits, including a willingness to some degree to harm his own relatives and use them in his schemes, which Tywin loathes since family is everything in his eyes. With such aspects of Tyrion toned down for the show, Tywin's hatred of him is more personal and spiteful.

>>215035933
>The Lightning Lord wins the entire Game in the end
Based.

>>215035941
Not him, but I recall that being implied somewhere in the books too. No, I won't go dig through the books or wiki.

>>215035144
Tywin was an economic brainlet. The economy of his realm was essentially third-world tier, relying almost entirely on mining and resource exports.

He was also a military brainlet, having lost most of his battles.

He only arrived in the capital just in time during Robert’s Rebellion by luck, and was fortunate that Robb Stark had broken his marriage pact with House Frey, that Theon Greyjoy betrayed the Starks by seizing Winterfell, that Roose Bolton and House Frey orchestrated the Red Wedding, and that the Tullys defected to his side after Stannis killed Renly

>>215035952
>making him more sympathetic as a result
They did that to Cersei too.

Bookfucks, was that religious shit that comes out of nowhere once Tywin dies that imprisons cersei from the books? It really smelled like a TV show contrivance

>>215035974
it isn't

Isn't his character just the pragmatic guy who ends up being screwed by non-rational actors?

Most houses were so shortsighted they couldn't realize not backing the kingdom 100% means a brutal civil war would follow.

>>215036040
Joffrey was an incest baby bro

>>215036015

It is Cersei resurrecting military wing of the Faith of the Seven, who were abolished for a very good reason, in exchange of them cancelling the debt the crown owes the Faith and if he publicly blesses King Tommen's reign.

>>215036062
Okay unless I slept through the show that part was not well established it seemed like priests just showed up to cause drama once big T was out of the picture

>>215036015
That was the point where the show started to become bad fanfiction. The sparrows exist in the book and Cersei is arrested and eventually released, but most of the high sparrow scenes are made up in the show, and also blowing up the Sept is pure retardation.

>>215036078
It smelled like fanfiction watching it. Like they said "we need another lever to pull for drama in the kingdom. lets make religious freaks"

>>215036015
Yeah it’s all from the books. Several parts of Westeros are basically in anarchy due to the war and because of the extreme banditing and terror a lot of people turn to religion and become sparrows, and then Cersei let’s then rearm to use them against the Tyrell’s and also to eliminate the Churches debt to the crown.

Difference between the books and the show is that in the show Lancel rats on Cersei for being a whore and she gets arrested, whilst in the books she does this dumbass plot to get this kings guard to lie and say he slept with Margaery. The Sparrows torture him and reveal he actually fucked Cersei and then Cersei is arrested.

>>215036015
There's a religious revival that's starting to take place, because everything is going to shit. These's also a weird trait of them never wearing shoes that the show never features iirc
Cersei is just an idiot that gave them free reign, and didn't realize the significance of it

>>215035522
>Tyrion tried to warn him about that, but like the midwit that he was he didn’t listen.
You liar.
Tyrion didn't know about the Red Wedding until it occurred in the book. Tywin kept it secret, and his constant alluding to his letters and telling Tyrion he wouldn't tell him about it was foreshadowing something big that Tyrion literally didn't know about.
>His greatest strength was being a brutaliser
I agree with that at least.

>>215036015

Cersei summons a power she does not understand. The High Sparrow is dangerous to the Lannisters because, unlike his predecessors, he's not corrupt or weak in any way. He fundamentalist yet very smart, has no fear of rocking the boat, and he cannot be bribed or persuaded to act against the principles of the Church. He plays Cersei like a fiddle until she grants the Faith the right to have an army and to judge people. She plays right into his hands and ends up arrested for treason and fornication.

>>215036122
>>215036147
>>215036155
Thanks for the info bookheads. It sounds alot more interesting and makes more sense than what was shown in the show

>>215036015
it's in the books but it's foreshadowed much better. Even as far back as the second book there are preachers rabble rousing in Kings Landing claiming that the gods are cursing the Lannisters (and by extension Kings Landing) for defiling Baelor's Sept by executing Ned there, and during the riot after Myrcella is sent to Dorne, the High Septon is pulled from his litter and torn apart, with Tyrion later ruminating that "starving people have a dim view of men too fat to walk"
as the war in the Riverlands and Crownlands gets worse more and more people turn to extreme religiosity as their only hope and start migrating to Kings Landing as refugees, where they storm the election of the next High Septon (after the fat one died, Cersei had his replacement killed for annoying her) and force the Most Devout to name one of their own as the new High Septon (the High Sparrow)

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I feel the same way about these two... they were supposed to be repugnant gun molls, draped in blood money, but we loved the job the actresses did, so they were more sympathetic than they deserved to be

>>215036122
>she does this dumbass plot
Cersei is such a well written BPDemon/narcisst though. The total incompetence, slinging the hole everywhere, carefully cultivated facade by lying constantly. Even molesting family member (Jaime) which is something I have never seen mentioned about NPD but part of a pattern I have noticed irl... It's insanely uncanny how GRRM writes her

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Cersei's POV chapters are kino. She's like if an average anon was a medieval queen, i.e. a schizo retard with an incest fetish.

>>215036198
It's not even really an incest fetish. I think it's pure narcissism since her and Jaime looked so much alike as kids that that would sometimes swap places

>>215036194
>>215036198
She really is one of the better written characters in the entire book series. the show really misses out on her schizoid POV.

>>215036166
It's hard to recommend you the books since they are unfinished, but fuck me, the later books are much more interesting than what happens in the show. From season 5 onwards the show completely shits the bed and doesn't do them justice.

>>215036400
Crows is still one of my favorite books. Every POV is absolutely amazing. It's absolutely a crime the show butchered every single character and story in it.

>>215036198
yea people highlight Feast for Jaime's arc but her chapters are almost as good, crazy bitch.

>>215035974
>I recall that being implied somewhere in the books too

It is not

>>215035373
>Fails to develop a strong relationship with Robert, thus ensuring he would never become Hand of the King

... he literally was the Hand of the King, for many years and it was considered the most prosperous the realm has been in a long time

>>215036400
>scope creep
>change mc half way through
>editors blatantly BTFO in latest book

btw the series is in fact, finished (my pet theory).

Idk anon, Dance with Dragons has whole new POV which don't matter and aren't interesting (the lesbain pirate? wtf is that about?) and Tyrions adventure with the elephants and the tigers drags on which vile pacing honestly. It's not good.

You can tell GRRM got passionate writing Cersei and Jaime, so much so that Jaime is the main character of Storm of Swords. He's in most chapters and his character arc (which ends in Dance of Dragons) is beautiful. (he contends with abuse and becomes his own person instead of being a tool for his sister and dad)
GRRM's main character completess his character arc, so that's why I htink the book series is finished. Jon died, which probably means a zombie apoclypse is coming. So it's kinda a prologue of a larger story, but it's a finished prologue.

>>215036561
Jon getting revived like he does in the show seemed extremely likely even before that happened, so I wouldn't think too hard about that.
If he goes in a different direction it's hard to imagine shit getting any closer to being wrapped up though

>>215035144
None of his children are actually his. He is an actual cuckold- Aerys got first dibs on Joanna, then again had a tryst with her that made Tywin so mad he tried to quit from being the King's Hand. His resignation was declined of course, and he continued even though Joanna gave birth to another son of Aerys- Tyrion.

Tywin's only child is actually a daughter who works in Chataya's as a prostitute. Tyrion thinks her eyes reminds him of his father, and she has golden hair and everything, and apparently if you brought up the uncanny resemblance between her and Tywin he'd kill you (according to GRRM).

>>215036655
>as a prostitute
does tyrion fuck her? lol

>>215036561
>Tyrions adventure with the elephants and the tigers
This is, no joke, my favorite part of the book. "Wherever whores go", Tyrion chapters have that almost poetic feel to them, not to mention all the setting around him, the geography and lore of the places.

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>>215035177
He's not a "fumbling idiot" per se, but he lacks long-term vision, especially for someone so concerned with his "legacy"
>He alienates all of his "allies", even his own child
>He ruins any prospect of future diplomacy by going against "guest right"
>He recruits "allies" who don't give a shit about anything other than advancing their own positions and power

Meanwhile, even though he dies in the first book, Ned built such loyalty that his allies are willing to go to war and potentially die in order to back Ned's children, despite there being no tangible benefit for themselves.

Many people often quote "The lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep" as if it's some sort of amazing true-ism, but the entire fucking point of that quote is that Tywin doesn't realise "the sheep" outnumber him tens-of-thousands to one, and that by not concerning himself with their opinions, he's ultimately doomed his house.

>>215036655
That plotline wont go anywhere I promise it will be dropped. Tywins last words literally won't matter.
You can't do even more secret targaryan twists it's cringe.

>>215036612
>Jon getting revived like he does in the show seemed extremely likely even before that happened,
So you think GRRM actually going to write or intended to write when he ended DAnce with dragons, a common hero saves the world christ allegory? Bc I think he was more interested in writing literally any other character than writing that. The series is finished.

>>215036669
Nah, Tyrion hires Shae to pretend to be his girlfriend in AGoT but then buys into her acting by ACoK to the point he wouldn't cheat on her. He throws a melty when he sees her in his dad's bed, conveniently forgetting she was paid to act like she was in love, not actually in love with him.

Honestly dude should have just married Lollys and tapped her sister and mother on the side as well.

>>215036714
Forget about cringe- if George wanted to tie up every plot thread he'd probably need 3 or 4 more books.

>>215036753
>should have just married Lollys
Before or after half of Flea Bottom raped her?

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Friendly reminder that Aerys raped Tywin's wife and that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys' kids, not Tywin's. Tywin's only child is Tyrion, ironically the one he hates the most.

>Jaime and Cersei enjoy the Targaryen pasttime of incest
>Cersei has the exact same madness as Aerys
>Joffrey has a similar "Targaryen" madness but not the exact same as Aerys
>Poetry of Jaime committing not just kingslaying, but unwittingly also patricide - his "most noble act" is further shrouded
>Barristan basically outright states that Aerys raped Tywin's wife on their wedding night
>Genna points out that Tyrion is far more like Tywin than Jaime or Cersei

>>215035696
>>215035803
Kevan is extremely competent and genuinely cares about the prosperity of the realm as a whole, not just the prosperity of the Lannisters.
He does such a good job fixing the realm that Varys feels bad enough about killing him that he actually goes to the trouble to explain it to him and does it himself, in person.

>>215035120
I actually believe that the actor being so charismatic reinforced Tywin's character. If he lacked charisma then everyone would see through the facade, and thus he would appear weak, by having a charismatic actor Tywin's reputation becomes believable despite the fact that his myriad flaws become obvious when examined.

>>215035120
Dance is one of the pillars of the show even if Tywin himself is just a jobber, removing him would deprive GoT of tons of fantastic scenes. It's not a coincidence that things start going to shit when he dies (on the shitter)

>>215036753
>conveniently forgetting she was paid to act like she was in love
She did testify in the court against him, bro. And afterwards, sleeping with Tywin, this was too much. Tywin always acted high and mighty, but in the end he took Tyrion's woman and made her his own.

>>215036901
she was a whore, that's what whores do. Plus show Shae is so fucking annoying I cheered when she died, regardless of how it happened

>I'm Shae le funny whore
fuck off

>>215036882
Yeah. And sort of reconsidering my point, Kevin is overlooked for being too submissive to his brother. But once free from Tywin he shows his true self as you said. An actually reasonable politician and administrator going beyond petty political games. I assume too, thats why Varys legitimately felt bad. Had any King's Hand since whats his name septum piercing done that?

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>There are people who watched season 2 and didn't realise the show was going to go to shit

>>215037193
I forgot the show did that. What a weird choice. It didn't even feel like a budgetary one

>>215036753
>Shae the character is too good an actress, accidentally tricks Tyrion into loving her for real
>Sibel the actress is so bad at acting she ruins the suspension of disbelief in whatever scene she's in
pottery

>>215037193
those Robb scenes are so painfully cringe to watch, Oona is hot but I may as well watch Taboo

>>215037226
That porn tho

>>215037193
>more or less the the same thing but described in different levels of detail
I dunno who's dumber, the retard who made that image, or the one reposting it.

>>215036151
> Tyrion didn't know about the Red Wedding until it occurred in the book. Tywin kept it secret,
I know, I was talking about after the Red Wedding, when Tyrion discovers what has happened and tells his dad that people will never forget.

>>215037193
>large ass

IRISH DETECTED

>>215037278
The image works against its own interest in that it looks like it was made by a retarded chimp trying to mislead other chimps, but the difference that in one scenario Rob is manipulated by his sense of honor that he took from his father, while the other is some "true love" angle is pretty significant.

>>215037278
>the same thing
family honor and a random teen crush aren't exactly the same thing. Also Robb was scared of potentially birthing a bastard since he knew perfectly well how shit Jon's life was

>>215037567
>Also Robb was scared of potentially birthing a bastard since he knew perfectly well how shit Jon's life was
I think that one applies in both scenarios. Ultimately he could have just had two wives and probably won the war though. His political choices are another aspect that made Tywin look smarter than he was

>>215035120
What is his targaryen equivalent?

>>215037609
>in both scenarios
well in the books it's more of a bandaid solution after an accidental fuck, in the show it's a full on courtship with some random girl which he pursues from the start. Also show Robb being much older than 15 doesn't do him any favors. But in general yeah, I just loathed those cheesy romance scenes, Oona is just a useless boring plot device

>>215037651
Having all that material to cover with younger/child actors really is a curse. I don't know how it would ever work out without some compromises unless it was animated

>>215035992
>The economy of his realm was essentially third-world tier, relying almost entirely on mining and resource exports.
what an obscenely retarded thing to say

>>215037856
>war comes through
>manpower dies off
>winter comes
>more manpower dies off
>no food
>more manpower dies off
>no one to work the mines
>everyone dies off from economic collapse
It's pretty clear thats how the books are going with how le gold mines won't just spam more units for when auntie dannie shows up.

>>215037835
If GoT was a cheap late 90s/early 00s show with dozens of episodes per season they could have done it easily. "Prestige" tv shows are a curse for making multiple seasons

>>215037887
missed the point. applying modern economic principles to a medieval fantasy world is completely retarded
mineral resource export-based economies are only seen as less developed today because they dont have the (supposedly) infinite scaling glitch of post-industrial economies. in a pre-industrial society those with access to the best mineral resources were genuinely the best off

>>215038064
Tons of medieval and antiquity states struggled with inflation from gold and silver.

>>215036400
>doesn't do them justice.
It's even stranger considering that even in S1, they'd include scenes not in the books. And those scenes were often good to great
Somewhere along the way (around S4) they really lost their skill at writing good material
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ES_ElI6Wg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6GW03WsFgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68KrOZgmXZw

>>215038147
>And those scenes were often good to great
all of them are comically out of character and the only good one is Robert's war stories, and even that one spoils the reveal that Jaime killed Aerys to stop him from blowing up Kings Landing that the books don't give the audience until Storm of Swords

>>215036777
checked, and seeing as he is already considered a joke, does it matter if it is after?

>>215038100
just spain and that was because the jewish bankers had a grudge against their kingdom

Rob Stark should have surrendered after the Karstarks left and he lost men at the battle of duskendale

Purple wedding happens anyway Tyrion still kills Tywin and Faegon is coming and Euron does not care about the north in the short term

>>215035323
That slanty eyed gook and his army will get slapped around by a random peasant from game of thrones.

>>215039536
*seal claps*
yay! racisms!

>>215035144
Despite "muh legacy" being his entire drive, he basically set up his family for failure by being a shitty father who refused to nurture their strengths in favor of trying to fit them into molds they weren't suited for and unleashing the Mountain's Men and the Brave Companions to go hog wild the riverlands pretty much caused all the problems Cersei has to deal with now after his death, namely the Sparrows, and also ended up getting Jamie's hand chopped off.

>>215039620
I heard his kids weren't really his though

>>215039643
There's fan theories that Tyrion isn't because Aerys would creep on Joanna Lannister and its part of the reason Tywin had a falling out with him, Tywin says Tyrion isn't his son and also Tyrion has some dreams about dragons which some fans interpret as semi-prophetic "dragon dreams" which is a thing some Targs have.

It's probably not true though because part of the point of Tyrion's character is that he's actually way more like Tywin than either of his other children but gets rejected anyway because of Tywin's own pettiness and insecurities.

>>215039820
Parents do often dislike the kids that are most like them the most because they see their weaknesses mirrored in 3D right infront of them

>>215037193
Deviating from the shitty books <> going to shit.
And the peasant girls's ass was well worth it.

>>215038193
It's amazing how bookfags get so snobby about their pulp fantasy trash.

>>215040102
asoiaf fans are deluded retards, genuinely think a book is smarter because it has more words in it. To them bloat equals complexity, and complexity equals intelligence

don't take the bait bookbros

>>215035120
Normies just assume that this slop makes sense because they've already assumed it was written by and for someone smarter than them, which it wasn't. GOT sucks and no the first season isn't better

GOT was always a shit compared to the books

>>215036893
Funny too, the books turn to shit after ASOS.

>>215040604
I disagree. Maybe this is because I was a showfag turned bookfag around season 4 release, but I really liked both feast and dance more than the first three, which I was more neutral about.

>>215040228
nigger grum himself doesn't care enough about these books to finish them. It's utterly pathetic the way you cucks cry about changes the show made.
>>215040753
You literally have no idea what you actually like, you are just an empty vessel for the opinions of whatever circlejerk you happen to exist in at the current time to spill into.

>>215040753
Thats because you are tied to possibility of there being answers to the questions those books raise. You don't accept the fact those are the final books and he completely fucked the pacing of the story by going on dozen different tangents and while ignoring the main plotlines of the story.

George was recently criticizing how orcs are one dimensional evil villains at a panel, a question from the audience asked him how that would reflect on The Others. He said simply he wasn't going to answer that question. George has no concept of what the Others fundamentally are, after 5 fucking books he has done barely anything with big baddies of the series.

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>>215035120
He's never intended to be incompetent and he really isn't but he's quite literally intended to be a hypocrit who gets away with it by being charismatic (and mean and slick).

And he's also entertaining in the role, really the only difference to the book version is that he looks prettier.

>>215041082
Myrish swamps are more interesting than the night king

>>215041314
George hasnt even gotten that far lol, he’s still stuck on THE.

>>215041082
George never graduated past 'haha cool medieval world' and 'hey you can make money with this'

>>215036181
adriana was sympathetic because she was a stupid girl who was too enchanted with the concept of true love to realize chrissy is a murderous thug, carmella wasn't very sympathetic IMO but has enough charm to shield herself of viever accusations of being a blood soaked enabler, she mostly comes across as spoiled at worst.

Charles Dance looks to smart and sounds too cultured to play Tywin.

This was even more distracting when he played Emperor Emyhr in the Witcher 3. Emyhr is Tywin for most of his adult life but has just started to gain a little bit of humanity and empathy for Ciri by the time Charles Dance is voicing him in the Witcher 3. It's the one era in his life prior to him being a hedgehog man that he shouldn't be played by Charles Dance.

>>215037193
This is probably the one change where I went "yeah ok that makes sense" because it makes it more accessible and improves the Red Wedding and honestly the extra shit about Westerling conspiracies doesn't improve it in any way.

It was written like shit but the general idea behind the change was sensible and the ass was good.

>>215037193
Right makes way more sense desu
Good old story of very important man dooming himself for some pussy

>>215041082
Have you ever considered that he didn't answer the question because it would spoil the books?

>>215042867
>spoiling the books that will never release
>spoiling that characters that haven't been developed in your almost 10k pages series that's still stuck in the first act of the story
Kek, good one mate.

>>215042970
>the books are never coming out
Hot take but not really relevant to the question in hand.

>>215043073
You know what, you're right. He can't spoil it because he has written that far enough to it to exist to begin with.

>>215036655
>None of his children are actually his
i hate this theory, it doesn't even make sense timeline wise.

Do you really think Tywin, being as prideful as he is would raise such children? it's retarded

>>215043190
I bet there are at least two lines in the books that implicate Tywin shooting blanks which would make it make sense.

>>215039536
*shoots you*

>>215035323
>>215035539
Considering that Tywin died on the shitter and the real Toranaga won overwhelmingly and snuffed out all opposition for 3 fucking centuries, yes. Toranaga's sons idolized him in universe and IRL, Tywins kids all hated him. Tywinsissies get mogged hard by Toranagachads

>>215035323
>>215035539
>>215043336
Man I still can't get over the Temu knock-off names. Like I understand WHY the names were changed but its like making a historical fiction series set in the American Revolution with General Stregg Hashertoff crossing the Delaware and surprising the Hessians or some shit.

>>215043429
Yea it is pretty odd, no clue why the original author did that considering most of the characters aren't even a composite character but are literal 1:1s of real figures. I didn't even know who they were and guessed correctly, although I assumed Hiro Hiromatsu was supposed to be Torii Mototada

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Status?

>>215043640
Killed by a girl.

>>215043640
is the other flaming sword immortal dudes whole life purpose really just to kill 4 zombies to save aryia who was wandering the kitchen for some snacks during a siege so she can kill the night king a minutes later?

>>215043657
Show me his body

>>215035301
It's the ultimate irony of the character. Tywin's dad was loving but a very poor ruler. Tywin took from this that he should be a ruthless administrator but forgot that his father's love also made him into the man he is, and neglected to do the same for his own children while also expecting them to be carbon copies of himself.

>>215044345
that's the basedreddit reading of his character

>>215035144
All his ops are children.
And he has to violate the foundational cultural taboos of his culture to defeat them.

>>215036655
Tyrion is the superfecundal son of BOTH Tywin and Aerys.
Heteropaternal superfecunadtion occurs when two eggs are fertilized by sperm belonging to two different men.
But anon, you say, Tyrion is not a pair of twins, he's one person!
Ah but you see, Tyrion has hair that is both very light blonde and black. Now in real life two different hair colours in the same person is caused by vanishing twin syndrome, that is one twin dying in utero and being absorbed by the other.
The proof is in the pudding, despite hating each other by that point Tywin and Aerys conceived a son together.
>does this mean that Darkstar had a twin whom he Maelysed in the womb
No, he dyes a lock of hair black to appear cool and mysterious.

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>And I care about Westeros and WINDS as well. The Starks and Lannisters and Targaryens, Tyrion and Asha, Dany and Daenerys, the dragons and the direwolves, I care about them all. More than you can ever imagine."

>>215044582
Darkstar is the real Viserys Targaryen

>>215044374
or anyone that has basic literacy. i didnt go on reddit to cop that analysis but maybe you did so you could know what not to think

>>215044605
There is no fake Viserys Targaryen. Darkstar is one of his many alter egos.

>>215044608
It's nothing to do with literacy you're literally reading into the character modern liberal reddit thoughts about childrearing and imagining them on a medieval fantasy father lol

the more she shat the thirstier she grew

>>215044897
george...

>>215044846
>screwing your son and heir's head on straight so he doesn't fuck his sister and run off and join a order of monks so he can fuck her some more is modern, liberal, and reddit and stuff
>medieval lords never concerned themselves with the propagation of their lines
You are retarded.

>>215044976
>uwu the LOVE tywins loser father gave him made him the MAN he WAS and without LOVE ugu jamie and cersei became... le BAD and le BROKEN
even you know you sounded like a redditfag posting that shit so you're trying to move away from it now using vagueries and generalities instead of what you wrote first. yeah kings care about bringing up their kids, tywin did just that but his kids were bad anyway. no amount of reddit helicoptering and muh fee fee foo foo modern parenting wifeguy shit would have changed that

>>215044846
lmao you are so retardedly mindbroken. tywin himself fondly remembers his father despite how he almost let their house be destroyed, that is clearly written to contrast with how he doesnt show any degree of warmth for his own children.
>childrearing and imagining them on a medieval fantasy father lol
dumbass, you know hes not a real person right? who is the author that wrote the character?

>>215045107
you're trying to make a reddit peg fit in a medieval fantasy hole and it just isn't fitting bro. they dont even have balls in that universe to play catch with he can't even do the redditshit you want him to even if he wanted to. stop projecting your modern (liberal) sensibilities and worldview onto made up characters from the past lol

>>215035120
You are both wrong AND retarded

>>215044846
People have always been the same.

>>215036181
i've always loathed carmela. edie falco is a great actress, though.

>>215045036
>>215045164
>redditors invented being a good father
Who is Ned Stark?

>>215045681
Follow the conversation bro c'mon

>>215045641
Yeah people have always been the same but modern liberal reddit views on parenting just came onto the scene 30 years ago at best and don't really apply to anything

>>215045706
There's no excuse for Tywin, and Ned being a great father resulted in him having great children that all look back on what he taught them as important lessons.